The Bechdel Cast - Postcards from the Edge with Crystal

Episode Date: June 4, 2026

On this episode, Caitlin, Jamie, and special guest Crystal move back in with their mothers and discuss Postcards from the Edge (1990)! Follow Crystal on Instagram at @crystal.will.see.you.now and check out the podcast Camp Classics!See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands, or do they have individualism? The patriarchy's effing vast. Start changing it with the Bechdelcast. Caitlin, yes, Jamie. Should I sing? Yes, yes, you should. Should I podcast? That really was the equivalent of recording a live podcast. at your daughter's sobriety party. Yeah. To be like, okay, first of all, I'm fucked up.

Second of all, let's record a podcast. Yeah, let's steal the show. Welcome home, not Carrie. Make it all about me. I love, oh, I love the degree to which this is obviously Carrie, but Carrie has to be like, no, what could you possibly mean? No, it's not me. What?

Is it the wig? Is it Shirley MacLean's wig? Welcome to the Bechtel cast. My name's Jamie Loftus. My name is Caitlin Durante. This is our show where we examine movies through an intersectional feminist lens using the Bechdel test simply as a jumping off point. And Jamie, what on earth is that? Well, the Bechtel test, we're not going to have trouble with it today.

I tell you that much. It is a media metric originally created by queer cartoonist Alison Bechtel originally created as a one-off joke in her comic collection dikes to watch out for, but has since been adapted to a more generalized media metric. And our version of it requires that two characters of a marginalized gender with names speak to each other about something other than a man for more than two lines of dialogue. And in spite of Dennis Quaid's larger presence in this movie than you'd think this movie does pass the bacterial test. And if that's why you're listening to this show, get a life. Yeah, we've got bigger fish to fry today.

and every episode. Yes, today is our episode on Postcards from the Edge, 1990. And our returning guest is a drag artist known for Rupal's Drag Race UK season one. She's the host of the podcast Camp Classics, and you remember her from our episodes on Jawbreaker, Showgirls, Brom Stoker, Dracula. The Range. It's Crystal. Oh my gosh.

Is this my fourth appearance? Yeah. One appearance away from a jacket. Oh, my God. And truly, what a bunch of different camp-flavored movies. Oh, I'm so glad to be back. Thank you. Yeah, absolutely.

Wigs. Exactly. Oh, my God. The line, there's blood on the wig, really. It's so evocative. Could have easily been in Bram Stoker's Dracula, actually. So true. Welcome back.

Thank you so much for bringing us this wonderful movie. Oh, I'm so excited to talk about it. I've had such a nice time this week, like, just re-immerscing myself in this world. It's delicious. Tell us all about your history, your relationship with the film, maybe the book, if you've read it. Tell us everything. I'm a drag queen. I haven't read the book.

And to be honest with you, this movie, was kind of new to me. I think I discovered it only a year ago and I was in Mexico and I had just taken some over-the-counter cold medication that really spun me out and I was laying on my hotel bed like literally gripping the bed and I was like I need I need to find something to do and this movie just got suggested to me on like whatever some streaming service and I watched it it was obviously perfect viewing for the stay that I was in. But yeah, I had never even heard of it before that moment. And then we covered it on my podcast a couple months later and I rewatched it.

And I was like, oh yeah, no, it wasn't just the painkillers, it wasn't just the cold medicine. It was good. But yeah, I've got, it's one of those movies that like I feel like I should have already been obsessed with, but it somehow passed me by. And I don't know if that's the same for you guys, but like it feels a little forgotten somehow, despite being like a commercial success, a critical success. A solid cast. Yeah.

Yeah. But yeah, it just feels a bit overlooked. Mm-hmm. Agreed. So yeah, glad to be here singing its praises. Indeed. Jamie, what about you? I am the opposite.

I am a loser, so I have read the book, but I also hadn't seen the movie. we've been talking about Carrie Fisher quite a bit recently. We just covered Empire Strikes Back. We covered her Legends episode on Daily Zite, guys. I'm always thinking about Carrie Fisher. So it's weird that I hadn't seen this movie before. But either way, she's one of my favorite writers. I love, I've read all of her books.

And if you haven't, I know I said this on the show recently, but if you haven't given yourself the gift of a Carrie Fisher audiobook, she reads them all. And it is just like the best experience. you could possibly have. And this is a really good book, too. And she also reads the audio book to the book. She, you know, she's the greatest.

I just, like, admire her so much. I think her work is so timeless. And so it is, I agree, Crystal, like, bizarre that this movie isn't talked about more because it is, I mean, it's definitely a product of its time, but in a way that I really like, something that I appreciate about Carrie Fisher's writing more and more. the more I live is how open, not only open she is about mental health and addiction issues, but how like, in the way that does, is not going to work for everyone, but really works for me,

how, like, self-deprecating she is about it and how matter of fact she is. I feel like stories of addiction are so often tragedy porn. And that's just not how she writes about addiction, even though, you know, it was a, huge specter in her life. And also now knowing, I haven't finished it yet, but that Mike Nichols also had extensive issues with addiction throughout his life. And I feel like he's bringing his sensibility to the same topic. And I just, I don't know, this movie was like, my mom's visiting right now. So right place, right time. The themes were really theming for me this week. and I'm like so happy to have this movie in my life.

I also watched it on I think Tobe's so now it's the kind of movie where you're like, I love how Postcards and The Edge has the same sports gambling commercial in it 45 times. It's my favorite. Yeah, that's how it's remembered. Yes, I too have a mother and I too perhaps have a couple. complicated relationship with her. Yeah, I had never seen this movie either. I've known about it for a while, and I knew that Carrie Fisher was involved in some way, but I thought it was because she was the star of the movie, not the semi-autobiographical subject of the movie slash writer. And I knew that she was a writer,

but I didn't know to what extent. I mostly knew her as a script doctor. I didn't realize she had such an extensive library of novels. And I knew about wishful drinking. And I recently watched her solo show of it, which I enjoyed very, very much. But yeah, I'm learning so much about Carrie Fisher recently. And the more I learn, the more I love her. R.A.P. to a legend. She's so amazing.

I also, yeah, I did not know. I knew Merrill Streep Shirley Maclean but truly it's like almost everyone in this movie is so famous even like and it builds in this fun way where you're like whoa CCH Pounder is in this that's so fun I love her

Gene Hackman is yelling Annette Benning is slutting out all of her late stage all of her platte Rob Reiner's there Rob Reiner just incredible Richard Dreyfus who I didn't recognize

and my mom was like upset. I don't know. And then I had to tell her Dennis Quaid was Republican. We had to have the talk about Dennis Quaid. You know, what an adventure. I'm so excited to talk more about it. So let's take a quick break and then we'll come back

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Yes. I have a very different memory of this. We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast, where people could call in and say, hey, Jonas. And then I wrote down on my little notepad, Hey Jonas, and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast. But thanks for remembering that, guys. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,

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And we're back, also music by Carly Simon. It should be said. Oh, I didn't realize that. Really? Yeah, this movie should be considered a classic. It's got literally everything going for it. Not the least salacious celebrity gossip, which normally, you know, as a culture, we're really into.

I know. Really, I just wanted to shout out because I know I talked about it, I think on the Zykeist episode as well. But Carrie Fisher wrote not many other movies. It sounded like there was like a lot of development hell issues. But, yes, to continue what you were saying, Caitlin, she script doctored famously Sister Act, Anastasia the wedding singer

But she also wrote this movie that's also on Tooby that I watched for fun recently that Shirley MacLean is also in called These Old Broads And if you want to watch a very disjointed movie that has

a lot of old Hollywood gossip heavily alluded to it you gotta watch these old broads with all the Tooby commercials It's Shirley Maclean Debbie Reynolds, Joan Collins and Elizabeth Taylor and if you know you know, if you don't, you're going to be so confused by these old bros.

Yeah, I remember you mentioning that. And it is also mentioned in the Be Kind Rewind. Yeah, that's how I learned about it. Video essay about Carrie Fisher as a writer. Highly recommend watching that video. But she mentions how that movie kind of paves the way for like older women, buddy, comedies, which I associate with Jane Fonda, Lily Tomlin, all those divas. It's a good genre. We got to keep that genre alive. Shout out 80 for Brady. Yeah. Yeah. The movies do not have to be good.

They just need to be made. They just need to be there. Yeah. We just need to see Shirley MacLean doing things. It really doesn't matter what. It doesn't not matter what. She's so important. I love Yeah. All right, here's the recap for postcards from the edge. But first, a quick content warning for things like drug use, addiction, rape and sexual assault. We'll talk about it. But the movie opens on Meryl Streep, traveling to the U.S. from an unspeified Latin American country. But she's pulled aside at passport control.

there's violence, there's conflict there. But then she messes up her line because Twist, we're on a movie set and she's an actor named Suzanne Vale. It is so fun seeing Merrill Street look to camera. It's so charring. I love it. So good. You're like, wait.

You never do that. You famously never do that. I, oh God, having just seen the Devil Wars Proa 2, which I thought was aggressively mid, but I did see it, I saw it in a new movie format that I also wouldn't recommend. But it made me laugh a few times. It's called ScreenX. I don't know. They have one in Burbank now where it's basically like there's three screens, but there's been no movie filmed for this format. So it's just you're watching the Devil Where's Prada 2. Three times? No, it's just really stretched out on the side. And there was, The best joke in the Devil Wears Prada, too, can only be seen in a screen X because there is one scene where Merrill Strip is sitting to the side and she's so stretched down. Anyways, it's not very good, but that's okay. It doesn't need to be good.

It just has to be made. Wow. The theme of the episode. Yeah. But I love this trope of like, you're watching a scene and then the camera pulls back and you're like, oh, it was just all us set. It's so fun. I love a reveal like that. Uh-huh.

It reminds me of who framed Roger Rabbit. Yes. That is exactly how that movie opens. You don't know it's a movie. Then a character messes up, does a little blooper. And you're like, wait a minute. I've been watching a movie within a movie this whole time. It's a great gimmick.

It makes you think it always works. So yes, we realize that she is Suzanne Vale, an actor, and the director of the movie she's starring in, Lowell, played by Gene Hackman. pulls her aside and tells her not to fuck up his movie because he and everyone else knows that she is using a lot of drugs on set. We cut to Suzanne passed out in bed with a guy, presumably a lover played by Dennis Quaid. Dennis Quaid with slightly frosted tips. Dennis Quaid with highlights.

Yeah, he put sun in in his hair and... My toxic trade is I think Dennis Quaid looks really hot in this movie. He unfortunately does. He does. He looks, I still like a very formative crush for me was Dennis Quaid and Parent Trap. Sure. Peak Quaid. It's just, it's a shame.

Yeah. But we did have to kill him. Yeah. He's dead. Yeah. Anyway, he realizes that Suzanne is unresponsive. He's trying to wake her up. she's apparently overdosed on pills.

So he rushes her to the ER. Acts like he doesn't know her and then speeds away. Also very loony tunes, honestly. Like the tires. He like peels out. So Dr. Richard Dreyfus pumps Suzanne's stomach and saves her life. She wakes up. And in the hospital room with her is CCH Pounder.

she's the director of the rehab unit at this hospital. I kept waiting for her to come back. I'm bummed that she doesn't come back. She's such a fun. The exchange between her and Meryl Streep about you only speak in bumper stickers is so funny. Yep. So she is there to admit Suzanne to rehab and mentions that if they hadn't pumped her stomach, she would have died, which is a bit of a wake-up call

to Suzanne. Merrill is just so good in this scene. It's, I mean, I don't know if anyone's ever said it before, but what an actress. But you can, you can really see her, like, building her defensiveness and, like, using humor to get out of this situation that is obviously incredibly uncomfortable for her. It's just, it's so incredible how much she can tell you about her character in this scene where she's waking up in a hospital bed. It's, oh, I love it. I love it. It's, I love dialogue movies, but like just the, when this movie, and Mike Nichols is so good at dialogue movies, when they just give Merrill and Shirley McLean room to act capital A, it's so good. I could keep watching it for another 45 minutes. Yes.

Yeah. So a short time later, Suzanne's mother, Doris, played by Shirley McLean, comes to the hospital. and we learn that she is also a movie star. She is a queer icon. She's a legend in her craft. Isn't there something like, C.C. Pounder says something like, we just need to get to the bottom of why you take all these drugs. And then Shirley McLean's like, hello!

Great writing. It's so good. And so Doris and Suzanne's relationship is perhaps, a bit complicated. It's a bit tense. Also, iconic, barely disguising Debbie Reynolds' name, Doris. Sure, sure. By the hell not.

Doris is perhaps a bit overbearing and micromanagee as a parent. And Suzanne is a bit resentful toward her, maybe. And just like a Category 5 narcissist. Like, mm-hmm, everything is about her. Yeah. We will also learn that Doris perhaps has addiction issues of her own, as we will often see her drinking alcohol, something that she denies. Some more time passes and Suzanne feels ready to go back to work, but there's an issue with insurance. The production of the movie she was cast in won't insure her because of her drug use unless she stays with a responsible party who can look after her, such as.

as her mother. Well, she can't stay with her father. She's worse than she is. Not that you're bad, dear. And who could that be a reference to? We'll never know. We'll never know. Certainly not Eddie Fisher.

No, I like that. I wish that this didn't get cut. Apparently, there were scenes filmed with Jerry Orbach playing her father. Whoa. And I would have loved to see it. Jerry Orbach doing Eddie Fisher would have rocked. Wow. Lumiere himself.

Yeah, this scene with the agent, though, is just so great. The way they speak over each other and, like, Merrill is finishing Shirley MacLean's lines because she's heard all of these anecdotes a million times before. It's just, it's perfect writing. It's great. So it's suggested that Suzanne stay with her mother. She is very reluctant to do this, but she eventually agrees and moves in with Doris. Suzanne returns to work

and on the movie set of this like what seems like a pretty bad movie and a low budget one she meets a producer played by Rob Reiner who tells her that she will have to do routine drug tests or else again the insurance won't cover her

and Suzanne finds this humiliating then Doris throws Suzanne a welcome back from rehab party. You know, that classic party. The opportunity

as she finds for attention is really a second to none. Totally, because this is the scene where Doris is encouraging Suzanne to sing a song for the guests and Suzanne doesn't want to

but she reluctantly does. And then people are like, well, Doris, what if you sing to? And she's like, no, I couldn't. Then burst into song. D flat. I think Izzy says in her video, like it's the Kristen Wig character from S&O. Don't make me sing.

Don't make me sing. It's so, so good. And then she does an amazing rendition of I'm still here who is, I think the only, Shirley McLean is incredible in this part. But when I hear I'm still here, I'm like, wow, the only person who I would have wanted more in this part is Elaine Stritch. Elaine Stritch plays a bitch mother unlike anyone on the face of the planet as evidenced in 30 Rock. But Shirley McLean, does she have the range? I don't know.

And I don't care. I felt that she did. I love Elaine Stritch. Her and Carrie Fisher's One Woman shows were ones that I was both, like, obsessed with in high school and college. I have to check it out. Oh, it's so good. But yeah, this whole scene, this set piece is just, again, just like perfect writing. The songs that they each sing, it's kind of so annoyingly on the nose, but it still works.

Like, Merrill's singing, you don't know me to her mother. And then her mother just completely upstaging her. And like, you'd watch Merrill perform and you're like, oh, okay, she's talented. Yeah, she did a good job. And then, yeah, Shirley McLean is just like, hold my cocktail dear. Let me show you how it's done. She flashes the panties. Yeah, it's so good.

I love Merrill. I don't understand why we're like, she should be singing. But I love Mamma Mia. Of course. Nonetheless. Nonetheless, I'm like Merrill. I hope you had fun on your vacation to Greece. I think Merrill is such a good actress that she can convince you she's a good singer.

Yes. I mean, it works on me. Because I'm like, is she not a good singer? I thought she was. Yeah. I think, I don't know what it is. But like Shirley MacLean, I think probably a comparable singer, but like, buries her. It's just incredible.

I mean, well, that's because she's the greatest showman. Yeah. She is. She is. Yeah. So a cut to Suzanne back on the set of the movie. She's getting various notes about her performance, including from a producer played by Oliver Platt. Then she hears the director talking to wardrobe about her body, and they're talking about how she eats too much. and she's gaining weight and just, you know, classic body shaming stuff. Then she runs into the Dennis Quaid guy again.

This is Jack. She doesn't realize exactly who he is at first. And then he reminds her that it was him who took her to the hospital. And does I pretty like, I think if you were to have to show in two minutes or less, what is love bombing and what can it look like, it would be the scene that is about to come up with them. Yes, yeah, we will talk all about their relationship because it is troublesome. Yeah, he is just, you know how some people just have a way of laser focusing you at your lowest?

He's that person. Yes. So what happens is they reconnect, they kiss a bit, and then they arrange a date. He picks her up, but Doris answers the door and she's very chummy with him. and has to pull her mother aside to be like, stop overshadowing me and stop making everyone like you more than they like me and stuff like that. Yeah. And then on their date at Jack's fancy Malibu House, I think he's a movie producer.

She tells him that she's in recovery. She can't do casual affairs. She's not really ready for romance. And he's like, great, I've been looking for someone exactly as vulnerable as you. This is awesome news. Yeah, and he professes his love for her, and she's like, we barely know each other. And he's like, no, no, no, I've seen you in movies.

And I fell in love with you on screen. Is this where we get the line, she was in a movie called A Nightful of Shoes? Oh, yeah. It's somewhere around here. Carrie Fisher jokes are so specific. I love it. I loved you in a night full of shoes.

Incredible. She's in another movie, like fake movie called I think Public Domain, which does sound like it would be the title of a movie. Yes. But a night full of shoes. A night full of shoes. It is so good. I love how even when, I mean, this is very Carrie Fisher,

but like even when she's writing her insert character, she still writes her to be kind of a loser, like, compared to her mother. Which, you know, Susie, it doesn't seem like Suzanne Vail had the Princess Leia moment in the way that Carrie Fisher did. It seems like she's been stuck on TV. I think that the book gets more into how stuck in TV she was. Sure.

Anyway, Jack is love bombing her, and because she's so vulnerable, it works, quote unquote, she seems flattered and they sleep together. Suzanne returns home late that night, and Doris has been worried sick about her because she didn't call. and didn't show up and Doris has been drinking, again, as she often does.

Suzanne suggests that maybe her mother has issues with addiction as well, but again, Doris refused to admit anything of this sort. She drinks like an Irish person. Yes, she does. A bit later, back on the movie's set, Suzanne finds out that another woman in the cast, Evelyn, played by Annette Benning, also knows Jack. So Suzanne goes to talk to her And it turns out that Evelyn slept with Jack recently

And in fact, on the same day That Suzanne went to his house And apparently he has a reputation For seeing many women at once I don't think I've ever seen Annette Benning In a role like this before I feel like I'm so used to seeing her as like Wife with Bob

She's giving full Kim Katrow It's really I It took me a second to realize it was her. I mean, she's so amazing, but I was like, wow, I've just never seen her in the, like, it's Hollywood, like, roll. Yeah, like, the idea that she's stealing a scene from Meryl Streep is like... I know. And this is her first movie.

Oh, really? Oh, was it? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, she's so, so good. The way she just puts that twizzle stick in her mouth and she's, like, talking about how she loves to fuck. It's like, no notes.

No notes in that Benning. He's like, no big deal. It's the 90s. Wear a condom. She's in it for the end dolphin rush. The end dolphin. Yeah, I did not even realize that was Annette Benning until I had already watched the movie and then was like scouring IMDB. And I was like, wait a minute.

What do you mean Annette Benning's in this movie? Who? And then I realized it was her. She rocks. Anyway, so now Suzanne knows that Jack is sleeping with multiple people. So she confronts him. about it and he acts like a total dick. He admits to sexually assaulting her the night she was passed out in his bed. And again, we'll talk about this. Yeah. But they break up. The next day,

Doris tells Suzanne that her business manager has disappeared along with all of his client's money. So Suzanne's money is gone. And then she and Doris start talking about Suzanne's career, her history with addiction and it turns into an argument. They're talking about blame, jealousy, resentment, Doris is parenting, Doris is drinking, and how her skirt twirled up at Suzanne's 17th birthday party and she wasn't wearing any underwear and it's this iconic scene when they're on the stairs. Anyway, Suzanne storms out of the house. She takes some pills but then makes herself throw up. She shows up at an ADR slash like looping session with that director, Loll, for the movie she was doing at the beginning. And then she and Loll have a heart to heart where he gives her advice about breaking this cycle of generational trauma.

And then on Suzanne's way back home, she sees a car accident. and it turns out that her mother had been drinking and driving and smashed into a tree. And she was arrested and then taken to the hospital with a minor head injury. So Suzanne goes to the hospital. Her grandmother is there who we met previously at the party scene. And she's freaking out. She's saying, I can't believe I have a daughter and a granddaughter who are both addicts and losers. So Suzanne is like, fuck you, grandma, get out of here.

She kicks her out of the room. And then Suzanne and Doris start to reconcile. And she helps her mom do her makeup. It's a really sweet, tender scene. Then Suzanne bumps into Dr. Richard Dreyfus. He had sent her flowers after he pumped her stomach. And then he asks her on a date. And she's like, I'll go out.

with you, but I'm not ready to date. And then he's like, no worries. I'll wait. And then we cut to Suzanne on the set of another movie or music video. I'm not totally sure. But it's directed by Lowell. And she performs a song, Heartbreak Hotel. And her mom and some friends are on set to support her. The end. And fun fact, that song at the end was written by Shell Silverstein, famous children's poet. Yes. Oh, I thought that was, is that not an Elvis song? Heartbreak Hotel? Is that a different song? Elvis has a song called Harprey Hotel, but I think it's a different one. Oh, yeah. So shout out Shell Silverstein. And that song was Oscar nominated as well, as was Merrill in this movie. Yeah. Incredible.

Do you know how many Oscar nominations Merrill had by this point in 1990? Oh, God. Seven? This was her ninth. Ninth. Nineth. And she was like, what, 40 or something? Ridiculous. Ridiculous.

Goodness. Well, let's take a quick break and really ponder that. Let that sink in. Pride is like love. You feel it in your heart. IAR Radio. Canada's number one streaming app for radio and podcasts, including IHAR Pride Canada, your favorite hits.

and must have party bangers, plus personalized and curated playlists, like back in the day pride. Come together, celebrate love. Take pride with you anytime, anywhere. Just ask your smart speaker to play IHart Pride Canada. Stream us on your phone. Or listen now at iHeartRadio.ca.

Hey, it's us, the Jonas Brothers, and guess what? We have some big news. What's the news, name? Huge news. We created our own podcast called, Hey, Jonas. We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it.

We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts. Pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts throughout there. But this one's extra special. So how did we actually come up with a name, Hey Jonas, guys? I honestly don't remember. I think it was on a call about what we should call it. Oh, we were thinking I'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band.

Before Jonas Brothers was... This is how you guys remember it going down? Yes. I have a very different memory of this. We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast, where people could call in and say, hey, Jonas. And then I wrote down on my little notepad, Hey Jonas, and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast.

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Gosh. Okay. Where do we start? I guess maybe we can just talk about like the diva worship of it all a bit. I mean, that's definitely the appeal, a lot of the appeal of this movie for me. Sure. It's the seeing the Hollywood glamour, seeing behind the. the scenes, seeing the struggles that make up these gorgeous, fabulous creatures that we all worship. And it's, uh, it just really scratches a niche. And even more so because you know it's kind

of true and kind of not. And it's presented in this humorous package. It gives you permission to revel in it, which clearly Carrie Fisher was doing when she was writing this, like she was having so much fun, kind of making fun of her, of the ridiculousness of also the trauma of her I don't know. I just think it's so it's so fun to watch Shirley MacLean just chew up the scenery as this big character who yes, not a very good mother but like brings she brings so much heart and soul into it and like you know you can't escape the comparison to something like mommy dearest which is kind of the same story but is so much more right yeah so much harder to watch and so much more tragic it's It can be fun to watch that movie in a camp way because it's also over the top. But like the subject matter is dark as fuck.

Yeah. Whereas this movie, you know, everybody loves each other. They're just messed up people. And that dynamic between them, I think, is so special. Like, you know, we already talked about it a little bit, but that scene where they are both doing their show tunes. And you can see if it was Mommy Dearest, you know, the daughter character would just be watching her mom perform and she'd fucking hate her and it would be like they were at war with

each other but in this movie like you watch meryl go through this entire journey of like i'm proud of my mother she's such an amazing star and you can see her act be like a little girl who's like in awe of her incredibly talented mother and then she can then she's like oh that's making me shrink oh that's hard for me and it's like all of these this mix of emotions which is which just feels so real and I think I've just talked my way around a couple topics. But it's, yeah, I, I love, I love this movie for all of that. Yeah. No, the admiration they have for each other, but also the resentment for different reasons,

because Suzanne resents her mother, blames her for getting her addicted to drugs. She's like, you fed me sleeping pills when I was nine years old, resents her for always wanting to be the center of attention. you know, things like that. And then Doris seems to be harboring some resentment about the fact that she's an aging actor who's a woman in Hollywood and feels like her time has passed and her daughter's up and coming and, you know, just all these things. But then again, they, they admire each other. They think each other is talented. It's just, it does feel like such a, an authentic portrayal of a mother-daughter relationship. Obviously not every mother-daughter relationship, but there were aspects of this that felt very familiar.

Yeah. I really appreciate that. And I know that, like, again, everyone's mileage is going to vary with a story like this because it's impossible not to project yourself onto the characters. But like there's so many things that I think Carrie Fisher is so uniquely good at. She is very aware of like how directly this is going to be compared to her. life, even though she has remained pretty firm that, like, this pulls from her life, but is not a biography, you know, a biographical film, which is part of why, and this does always crack me up, Debbie Reynolds was like, I'll do it, I'll play the part. And so which to me is like, I don't know, depending on how you look at it, is like, okay, so it can't be that real if Debbie Reynolds is like, I would love to do it. I could do it. And Mike Nichols was gently like, no. Yeah, like you're not right for the part Because it's not quite you

It's something else, it's someone else And it would be so distracting from I mean it's so much of the stories Potentially in that interaction alone Of like you know this is Carrie's story DeBeat But anyways But the fact that you know everyone It seems like everyone involved in this production

Had ties to this family And a lot of love for the family regardless of how much of the family actually appears on screen. Obviously, Carrie Fisher, she's writing based on these dynamics potentially. Shirley MacLean was a really close friend of Debbie Reynolds. Mike Nichols and Carrie Fisher were close. Mike Nichols also directed Elizabeth Taylor. Like there's just all of these like connections that.

But through all of that, like it would be so easy for Carrie Fisher's writing to be like navel-gazy bullshit, but she's so clear on processing feelings around privilege. Like she does not let Suzanne get away with the amount of privilege that she absolutely does have. We see other people react to that privilege and we see Suzanne internalize and develop a deep shame around like understanding she has privilege but still struggling. And it's just like it's such a difficult needle to thread. I would imagine especially if that is like very similar to your background that she's so good at.

It's like amazing to watch. And the fact that she, you know, with Shirley MacLean's character Doris is able to portray that, you know, this is a character who also clearly struggles with addiction. but the struggles we don't even really know. Like she's just sort of refusing to confront it and seeing Suzanne, you sort of have to contend with like, is this someone I can have in my life if this is the case? Because in the end, and it is like, you know,

maybe dismissive of addiction, but I was laughing, whatever. At the end where Shirley McLean is like giving the interview to the press and you're like, what are you going to do next? And she's like, I'm going to go back to drinking. Thank you. Thank you. much and everyone's like, got it, got it, got it. But I just, I really love that whatever. I think it's safe to say that Doris has narcissistic qualities and that Suzanne is such a, like,

I think, well-written child of a narcissist where she is hyper aware of what her mother is like. And it clearly informs her own behavior and how she talks to and perceives other people. and that she also has a lot of empathy for her mom in many moments where you would have to have a lot of empathy to keep this woman in your life, first of all. But that she does seem to understand. And I feel like we're given information in the broad characters, but like by seeing the grandparents and seeing, because that also is very similar to Debbie Reynolds's life where she grew up with absolutely nothing. and then became this big star and there's always going to be like tension and maybe overdoing the opulence to escape your past quote unquote. But that I don't know that Suzanne like understands this is how my mother is. If I want her in my life, I kind of have to accept it and create boundaries.

Yeah. And I have to imagine, I wish I had paid closer attention to the scenes with with Suzanne's grandmother because I think she's only in two scenes. Yeah. But it seems clear to me, at least, that Suzanne recognizes the ways in which her grandmother affected her mother's life. Right. And, you know, again, the cycle of that type of parenting.

Dysfunction. You know, perhaps Doris got that from her mother and is passing it down to Suzanne. So it almost made me want the grandmother character to be more prominent just to kind of drive that home a bit more. Two generations of trauma simply was not enough. We need the third. But yeah, even though the, I think definitely the grandparents are like a little cartoonier than the other two generations. Yeah. But I do think that like, I don't know, it's in a very Kerry Fisher way.

and I will excuse basically most of the things that people don't like about her writing, but that even though you have this sort of cartoonish presentation of people essentially from the south, from low-income background, you still get this thing that like not a lot of people are good at writing where it's like this grandmother, while dismissive and unkind to her daughter and granddaughter, is also receiving constant verbal abuse from her husband. Oh, yeah. Who appears to be suffering from mental illness, but it does seem like, I mean, I don't know,

I have memories of my grandparents having a dynamic like that and that when one of their, you know, mental capacities began to slip, the cruel behavior that was displayed before escalates. And it just, you know, she is both unkind to her daughter and granddaughter and is literally being screamed at by her husband. to shut up every second of her life. And like both of these things have to be true. And seeing them both at the same time helps you understand where Doris comes from

and therefore where Suzanne comes from. It's so good. Yeah. It does occasionally verge on like quite Hollywoody, I guess, where it's like everything does get a little bit neatly wrapped up. And it's like you get given the lesson and then she applies it. And then everybody has a reconciliation and everyone moves on and drug addiction. solved and you know there's a little bow on everything and but it is also just really satisfying to watch and that's like what makes kind of a movie kind of worth watching we like the

resolution we like all of that and so yeah the fact that you've got that jean hackman's speech where he's like you know your mother did it to you and her mother did her all the way back to eve and at some point you have to say it stops and then the next scene suzanne puts a stop to it's it's just like very satisfying also she puts a stop to it while she's tying a turban around her mother's head, which that looks like it's probably hard to do, and she had to practice that a lot. She put false eyelashes on her mother. Not that well, to be honest. Not that well.

I was like, the blush was messy as well. Yeah, the blush was messy. Too much blush, yeah. But there is also something, I mean, it's like, again, is it toxic? Yes. But also it is so satisfying seeing these two divas march out of the hospital. hospital room after a DUI and be like, here we are and we look amazing. You're like, come and get me, boys. Well, I also got the impression that they had only just begun to reconcile

and that their relationship still needs a lot of repair and therapy, perhaps, but that they had begun the journey of addressing their issues with one another. So I think it would have been like really too like saccharine and to Hollywood if they were like, and we fixed everything. And now we're the best mother, daughter, pair you've ever seen. And I didn't get that impression. It was more just like they still have some problems to work through. But they're in a better place to start to do that now.

Yeah. They kind of get to have the fantasy conversation that you wish you could have with your parents, which is like. Totally. And now we're both going to explain our central issue with each other. And like that will be so great. And like obviously that just never, you know, those are the things that kind of never get said. But it is incredibly satisfying to watch these two characters kind of get that moment.

Yeah. And really see them like struggle too. Like it's, I don't know, like the fact that Suzanne is struggling so much in these like early days of sobriety. and in a way that feels like it's really funny but also realistic and I don't know I like little patterns I was noticing on my second watcher like okay both her mother and grandmother have these husbands who are just there arguably grandfather is there because maybe he's like experiencing some form of dementia but I'm I'm gonna headcan and say he was always kind of just there Shirley McLean's husband is true. truly horizontal for the entire movie. It's so good. Barely says a word. Barely is aware of what's going on around him. And you see, to some extent, in that last scene, like Suzanne begin to break that cycle,

where, of course, in the early days of her sobriety, of course, like getting love bombed by a hot guy, it's tempting under any circumstances. But, like, it makes sense to me why she is, but why both she tries to attempts to set. a boundary that he love bobs his way through and that she is in a vulnerable place that makes her receptive to what he's saying even though he very much doesn't mean it and in fact is an abuser to a degree that she eventually learned but i just i don't know like she is both so funny and so specific and also very vulnerable and again she's like i i really love it and then at the end that she's able to draw the boundary of like not a good time Dr. Dreyfus or whatever.

Yeah. I mean, this character experience is basically every humiliation a person can experience in like, what, the month that she's been out of rehab. The world is really laying it on thick on her. And it's almost a little bit sex in the city, like the level of indignities she has to suffer. But it's, yeah, very fun to watch. I mean, speaking of some of these characters.

as far as Doris's husband, Suzanne's grandfather, Jack, and we'll talk more about the relationship with Jack specifically. But I noticed, especially on my second watch of this movie, that basically all the men are despicable in some way, to varying degrees of despicableness. Because, I mean, like, I feel like Jack is the extreme where he sexually assaults an unconscious person. but then you've got various producers on the movie set who are just condescending and shitty.

There's the director who is body shaming her. And he is talking with a woman, Dana Ivy, who I associate with the Adams family. Oh, okay. Yeah. They're talking about her body as if it's a piece of meat. and again, fat shaming her, which is absurd because look at Meryl Streep in this movie. Then you've got Lowell who cares more about his movie and his art than the well-being of the human beings in his movie. You've got Marty the business manager who steals Suzanne's money and disappears.

Yeah, so just like every man is horrible. And also kind of barely a character. I love that they're just sort of like secondary or tertiary characters and that the main focus remains on Suzanne and Doris. Yeah. I love stories about women. Well, that's a whole sentence. But like how they're working their way around men, which is like so much of life. like working around men and suffering as a result of the actions of men,

but the story does not need to be focused on them. I really, I appreciated, it felt very much like a note we would have on most movies of this genre being like, why didn't she have more friends? Why didn't she have people to talk to you? And I think that this movie does a great job with that with giving her a character that she becomes friends with in rehab. a character played by Robin Bartlett.

Yeah, Aretha. Arita. Who I left out of the recap, but she is there. I mean, she's sort of a friend character. Like, I guess not much changes if she's not there. But I think it is like crucial that she is there, if that makes sense. Because it's just, it makes the world feel more real. I automatically like a character a million times more if she has a cool goth friend, you know, like the world.

the world feels very even though it's like very elevated it feels lived in and I really appreciated that and that she keeps coming back that's why I wish I mean I guess it didn't make sense if CCH pounder's character came back because why would your rehab doctor be around but I just wanted to see her again yeah yeah speaking of shitty men I feel like even Richard Dreyfus like I think the movie thinks he's kind of a good guy but like I don't I don't think he comes off very well in this year in the year of 2026. Yeah, maybe it's not appropriate to ask a patient on a date.

I think not, especially one that like is famous and you have a crush on because you've seen in movies. Yeah. In any situation, but it's just weird. It's, it's stalkerish. It's gross. Especially the line, I'll wait. You're like, no need. No need.

Should we talk about Jack? I guess. Dennis Quaid. We have to. Yeah. We must. Yeah, I really struggled with this series of beats for a few reasons. But so, again, trigger warning here for rape.

But this storyline starts with the scene where Jack wakes up. They're in bed together. He realizes that she's unresponsive. So he takes her to the ER. He is shitty about. that, as we already mentioned in the recap where he pretends he doesn't know her, refuses to give his name to the hospital, and then like peels out in his Jeep Wrangler. Bad sign.

Bad sign. They bump into each other later. And it was unclear to me if Jack was kind of like following her, trying to bump into her, or if it was just coincidental. I didn't have a clear sense of that. But either way, they reconnect. And Jack tells her nothing happened that night. We just talked.

Yeah. And he does that very intentionally to sell her on the idea that he is a, I wouldn't even say respectful, but just that he is not a monster. Yeah. He says like, I have rules. Like you were under the influence. I have rules about that. And it's like, okay, sir, that is the bare minimum.

Yeah. And it's like, okay, so you don't, you, you don't belong in jail. Got it. Like, mm-hmm. And then her response feels like a very, like, of the time, 1990s kind of thing. Because she's like, well, why didn't anything happen? Was I that unappealing to you? Which?

Of the time. Of the time. I'm giving Carrie Fisher every pass. Fair. And then the following scene they're in together is when he's loved. bombing her and she's, you know, she's saying like, no, I can't do this. I can't do a casual relationship. I'm not ready for anything like this. And he blows past all of that. He takes advantage of her vulnerable state and professes his love, which is like absolutely false and fake.

Then she finds out he is seeing multiple women and has not told her about them. And she says, like, I don't even care that you're seeing other people. I care that you lied about that. And then he starts making sweeping generalizations about women, basically implying that women don't know what they want. Oh, you say one thing, but you mean another thing. And your feelings can't be trusted and classic, shitty stuff like that. And then he reveals that he raped her when she was blacked out.

Yeah. And the movie does not exactly acknowledge. it for the rape that it is again of the time yeah I think it's like it obviously like it makes the character come off worse but I don't think worse to the degree that we consider it to be worse like and I mean it is I would be curious what kind of process a scene like that being written in 1990 goes through it feels weird to say like I appreciate that. I appreciate that it's there. But like it,

I don't, I don't know. Like the fact that the, the movie gives him no way out of being an absolute monster, but doesn't quite make it clear the degree to which he is. But then it's like, I don't know. I mean,

Carrie Fisher is generally like really, she's really good on these issues. She famously sent a producer who attempted to assault her friend in a cab, a cow's tongue in a Tiffany box. Like she's. That's incredible. credible. She's amazing. So I fully believe that like Carrie Fisher understands how monstrous this is. So it is interesting that it is presented with this sort of like, I don't know,

like I don't even know what the word is. I think it's just that it's a comedy and they're just trying to keep it kind of light and they kind of make him look as bad as you can in a comedy like this. I agree with you, though. It would be nice to see him punished a little more, you know, lose his job, say. Yeah, something. I also think it's probably, again, just a byproduct of the time where for a very long time, I think people's impression of what rape was, was like snatching someone off the street, dragging them into an alley and like... Yeah. Almost always a stranger. A stranger. Yeah. Yeah. And, and... And that our understanding of all of the circumstances under which an act could be considered assault or rape were just not fully recognized or understood at the time.

Yeah. So I think it's probably partly that. And this plot point kind of comes up as well in Working Girl, which is another Mike Nichols movie. Yeah. And Melanie Griffith has passed out and Harrison Ford. it's been so long since I've seen it I think yeah we haven't covered it's been so long since we covered it

I think he gets like good guy points for not having sex with her well she's unconscious again bare minimum shit the bare minimum yeah apparently Dennis Quaid in this movie is kind of based on Harrison Ford though which is kind of yeah that kind of tracks

yep and it's so it's so tough because it's like I don't know Carrie Fisher has written extensively about or that it was like published shortly before she died about the affair that she had with Harrison Ford and it's just I mean this is just like a I feel like sometimes a difficult conversation to have intergenerationally about like she was a teenager he was you know in his 30s and married and obviously the power dynamic was wildly different but and she both

sees it that way and doesn't see it that way and didn't want people to think ill of him as a result. It's just so, like, it feels like a very difficult kind of impossible conversation to have, especially when it's like, well, you can't tell her she's wrong for how she perceives her own experiences. But I think that a woman of a younger generation would feel quite different. I don't know. Sure.

Yeah, it's complicated. It is. I kind of just want to shout out, like, the beautiful world that is. is created here, the Hollywood of it all, the set pieces. I think it's just so fun. The first thing I can think of that happens is when we see Suzanne Merrill on the set of her new movie and she's getting tied to a cactus. And she's in the desert and she's getting tied to this cactus.

And then someone just opens a door in the back of the desert and steps through. I love that. It's so good. And there's moments like that throughout, which are just like, I don't know, it's movie, it's movie magic. It's so fun. Like, she's talking to Dennis Quaid at one point, and then the house that he's standing in front of just drives away. The scene where she's chatting to Annette Benning, like they're walking through a lot, and they're suddenly in a snowy New York street.

And then they're back at the food truck. And there's Freddie Kruger in the line behind them for the... I didn't even notice. It sounds good. Yeah. For craft services, it's the bit where she's hanging on the window, but it's actually horizontal. Like, it's really, really great. And it's just these fun little visual gags that, like, they're just so smart.

And, yeah, it's great. It's great little storytelling. And it constantly kind of highlights the absurdity of this world that she's in, this industry that she's in. The fact that she has this confrontation with Dennis Quaid dressed as a cop. Right. Just the complete absurdity of all of it. And then shoots him with blanks in her, like, prop gun. Yeah.

Which we've learned since. Don't do that. Don't do that. It's very dangerous. Unless it's Dennis Quaid, maybe. Take your chances. Yeah. Yeah, this was like a slightly less like prominent theme, but one that I appreciated and one that definitely comes up throughout Carrie Fisher's life is how like the entertainment industry deals, quote unquote deals with and punishes people with addiction issues where I think like.

I think like making the point that literally on a production, actors are insured like they are not people, which is to, I mean, I guess, you know, prevent, you know, harm potentially to others as well. But, but it also is like a fundamentally capitalist decision in a way that is acknowledged throughout the movie in different moments. And also just how, you know, she's, she is punished for, um, she's not. punished for having addiction issues she's punished for getting caught having addiction issues which feels very telling like everyone it is an open secret on this set that she's struggling with addiction and is doing drugs in her trailer and I think her dealer is her body double which is kind of funny yeah but it's only when she is publicly humiliated and almost dies that the consequence comes and that her life is like sort of irreversibly changed

And that is certain that's like not limited to entertainment, but I think is like really smartly said and how she's treated and spoken to by mostly men who are directing or in charge of her of like she's given a handler basically, which I don't know, like you feel whatever way you want about it. He seems like a decent guy. But but the idea that like I just wonder at what point is it like they need her to work. Like a lot of these like structures that are put in place seem like so that she can continue to work and create stuff to be consumed. And Suzanne does say repeatedly like she wants to be at work. She wants to be distracted. She wants to be doing things. But it's just, I don't know, I think it does a good job without like bonking you over the head about it.

What a system that she's trapped in. And it makes sense that Suzanne wouldn't be super pushed back about it because it's all she knows. It's what she grew up around is her mother being a functional addict working in entertainment. So it just like, I don't know. I appreciated that. Yeah, it's very good at handling the idea that she's got a lot of power, but also kind of none. But also still treated horribly on set and exploited for her labor. I think it's Doris who points out at some point how badly actors are treated and how actresses have it even work.

And then she tells a story about how she had a phone meeting, I think. It was a phone meeting with an executive. It was a, what? I don't, I think it was, I think it was in person. Well, she says that he was on the toilet the whole time. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, because that's a, that was a Louis B. Mayor thing, right?

Yeah. Yeah, I feel like that would have been in person. So was she just in the bathroom with him? I don't know. I mean, I mean, either way, it's, it's horrible. Yeah. But yeah, you see the ways in. which Suzanne is mistreated, berated, humiliated on set.

And yeah, I feel like the general public has this idea that, oh, if you're in movies, people are laying out the red carpet for you. They, you're treated like royalty. And maybe some actors are depending on the amount of like box office draw they have. But even then, like there are so many people on a set. with more power than an actor that often abused that power. And we've seen, we've heard so many stories of that. But I mean, I also, I, Crystal, you mentioned this earlier and I was thinking about it as well,

but I'm so curious what you both think because we just covered Mommy Dearest on the podcast and the Louis B. Mayor overt reference in there's, I mean, there's so many similarities in these movies, but obviously their approach. couldn't be more different. I think at least part of that is because, you know, Carrie Fisher has explicitly said, and so we have to respect that she said, this is not her one-to-one experience,

but that she, Carrie Fisher, has narrative control to some extent over the story where, as we talked about in the Mommy Dearest episode, which you can just go listen to, it's with Be Kind Rewind. But deals with a very similar,

in description character is like a famous actress such as let's say not debby reynolds or overtly Joan Crawford down to the example of uh louis B mayre being abusive towards them when they were young actors and how they parent daughters specifically like it's wild how similar it is but that this story i think does a lot better of a job of contextual how that character got to the place. And maybe to the point where I could definitely see the argument that Doris' abusive behavior is excused more than some people would like. I mean, her admitting that she did give her child sleeping pills to go to sleep. Do I believe that Doris believes this was okay because it was over the counter?

Sure. But I don't know. These movies came out, like, I think about 10 years apart. and like I had to have my attention drawn to how similar the premises are because it's treated so differently where I mean tone is so vastly different between the two movies and there's no villain in postcards from the edge if anything like a villain would be like a cycle or a system it wouldn't be one specific person where obviously in mommy dearest Joan Crawford is the devil incarnate Yeah, I think it's partially just that Mommy Dearest is kind of a much worse film in many ways.

Yeah. It's like, you know, nothing is particularly well written. I guess by the end of the movie in Mommy Dearest, they are trying to humanize her a bit. But it's just you've had such incredible over-the-top camp by that point that it's like, you kind of can't go there with that movie anymore because, you know, you've seen such extremes by that point. You've seen too much. Yeah, exactly.

Whereas in postcards, you know, there's always nuance with these characters and there's always push and pull and love and resentment. And yeah, it's just, it's not a screaming, hysterical portrayal of anything. It's nuanced and funny and feels real. Especially when you think about how Kerry Fisher and her mother did very much want to, you know, make their relationship.

work and what a deep love they shared even though if if if if um no one has recently watched the bright lights documentary with the two of them sort of beverly hills gray gardening oh it's like filmed towards the end of both of their lives it's so it came out in 2016 but it's so good it's yeah it's debby reynolds and carrie fisher they were like neighbors until the time of their death and it's just them loving each other and being very dysfunctional. Right. They died one day apart, right? Mm-hmm.

Yeah. It's, it makes me great thinking about it. But yeah, I mean, and also the, just to close the Mommy Dearest loop, because I know we talked about this in the episode, that Christina Crawford, who is a polar, you know, everyone involved in Mommy Dearest is a polarizing figure in their own right. But that Christina Crawford kind of disowned that movie when it first came out because she had no authorial control in how her mother was presented in this big budget movie where I think that's like kind of Carrie Fisher's ultimate strength in her, you know, both her position,

but also like without her ability as a writer, this same premise we know could have been taken to a pretty horrible extreme. But I don't know, it's a testament to her. Yeah. Yeah. And she is a big proponent of the concept of tragedy plus time equals comedy and her comedic approach to so much of her writing and yeah, her just sort of like self-deprecating approach to her work. And we already talked about this a little bit, but I just really appreciate the ability to take a generally serious topic and apply a comedic slant or. or comedic perspective to it in a way that I think is still tasteful and not, you know, like making light of something that should be taken seriously, but rather finding humor in a

situation or maybe even coping with something using humor because as we said earlier, so much media about addiction, for example, is very tonally serious if not tragedy porn. And of course I understand approaching a serious topic with a serious. tone, but there's also room for stories about something serious told with a more comedic tone. And that's how I approach writing, that type of thing. And again, Carrie Fisher's ability to do that with nuance and grace while still being funny, I think is really well done. Yeah, it speaks to the way she was in her personal life as well,

and how she never let her own struggles with addiction, like, be a shame for her or I'm sure she did privately, but she owned it so publicly that I think was very important for a lot of people. And she, you know, she talked about, I was watching interviews she gave around this time talking about this movie. And she just talks about it all so matter-of-factly. And same with Richard Dreyfus. This movie started as like, it was going to be a vehicle to talk about addiction and it was going to be starring Richard Dreyfus. And because he'd also experienced that. And, you know, she talks about it all just so matter-of-factly, and it's very destigmatizing, it's very powerful, and then you see it

presented in this movie with a comedic edge as well, and I think that also has the exact same effect, which is just, let's normalize talking about this. Sometimes it is funny. Yeah, she's just one of one. Yeah. No one's doing what she's doing, except this, watching this movie and covering it does make me want to also cover heartburn, because I just associate her and Nora Afron so strongly as like confessional brunettes of this era. And I feel like there's like a fun conversation about that movie too because she just, she just killed Carl Bernstein. She just killed him.

She killed him in public. And it's, I think, one of the most historic things that's ever been done. I've actually never seen heartburn. Neither have I. It's great. It's great. She just kills one of the president's men. Anyways, yes, is there anything else that either if you wanted to chat about?

Not really. I'm feeling good. I'm feeling good. It definitely passes the Bechtel test about all sorts of things, obviously primarily between Doris and Suzanne, but also between Suzanne and CCH Pounder, Suzanne and Aretha, grandma and daughter and granddaughter. This movie is unquestionably about. women and about surviving your early days out of addiction and surviving your mother.

So easy pass. It is a very, very white movie. Very much. It needs to be said. And so rating it on our nipple scale where we rate the movie zero to five nipples based on examining it through an intersectional feminist lens, I'll go, oh gosh, I don't know, three, four, three and a half. I don't know. I do. What I like about this movie is it's, I think, more nuanced examination of a mother-daughter relationship that feels authentic,

even though like I don't have the same backstory at all as the Suzanne character. I saw so many traces of the types of things they argue about in arguments I've had with my. my mother, not to put my mom on blast here, but there was just so much that was familiar about maybe not the specifics, but of the essence of their arguments and resentments, but also their love and affection for each other. Yeah, so I guess because of that, let's go three and a half. And I'm going to give them all to Carrie Fisher. I also want to shout out that she had said that when she was working as a script doctor, her goal was to make the women characters smarter and the love scenes better.

So she did it. A champion for women. Love her. Across the board. So yeah, three and a half nipples, all to Carrie Fisher. I'm going four. I'm going for it. I love this movie.

There's only one Carrie Fisher. There are certainly things that are a product of its time. It doesn't tackle absolutely everything that could. And mainly it is a very white movie. That said, I just think this, I don't know, the way that she writes relationships between women and between mothers and daughters is so specific and so cool. And I just, I love that there is,

is a world where Debbie Reynolds could have taken this story's existence very poorly, but there's also really sweet pictures of them at the premiere together. And I think, you know, Debbie Reynolds is like, all attention is good attention. All press is good press. She has survived so much worse than this. And I just really appreciate just Carrie Fisher in general, but Carrie Fisher and Debbie Reynolds, like generosity with each other to sort things out off. in public. I love it. So I'm going to give it four nipples. I'm going to give one to CCH Pounder. I'm going to give one to I guess Shirley McLean. She deserves it. And then I'm going to give my last one to Oliver Platt because I just love to see a young Oliver Platt pop up. He is for me. He really is for you, Jamie. Crystal, how about you?

Yeah, I think I'll see your three and a half and your four and I think I might raise you four and a half. Nice, nice. I'm going there. Yeah, I think it's a delightful, delightful movie. And for all of the reasons that you guys have already outlined, but it, yeah, what a great time spent watching all of these wonderful people do all of these wonderful things. I will give my four and a half nipples to all of the blanks that Merrill fires at Dennis Quaid.

And then she goes, relax, they're just blanks. It speeds off. There's so much peels. like peeling out in this movie. Really. We used to be a proper country. Any, any Merrill Street of comedy performance

is worth celebrating, truly. Oh, I know it. Yeah, I'm going to see Devil Wars Potter 2 tomorrow, and I'm very prepared for it to be incredibly mid, but I know I'm going to just love watching her. It's worth it for her. It's always worth it for her. Wow.

Well, Crystal, thank you so much for joining. us for a fourth time, come back for a fifth and get your imaginary Bechtelcast jacket. Imaginary. It's going to exist one day. I... We're working on it. We're working on it. We're, yeah, they're hand stitched. It takes a long time. It takes a long time. Yeah. Thank you for having me. It's always such a treat. And yeah, if you're listening, please check out my podcast, which is called Camp Classics, and it's out every two weeks, and we discuss movies just like this one. Yay.

Can people follow you on Instagram or anything like that? Yes. Camp Classics podcast, and Crystal will see you now on all fine social medias and all the unfined ones, too. Which is most of them. All of them. You can follow us also on Bad Bad Social Media Platform, such as Instagram at Bechtel You can support us on Patreon,

a.k.a. our Matrion, where Jamie and I do two episodes every month based on a genius, brilliant, amazing theme. Often of your choice, unless you misbehave. And then it's of our choice. And that's just sort of how the matriand works. Yes. Yes. And yeah, we put up polls all the time so you can pick which movies.

It's very fun. And that's all for. $5 a month at patreon.com slash bectalcast. And with that, why don't we, oh, how do we end this? Why don't we sing a long shell Silverstein country song for some reason to close it out? Why the hell not? Let's do it. Bye.

Bye. Check and out. Bye. Bye. And me, Caitlin Durante. The podcast is also produced by Sophie Lichtenen. And edited by Caitlin Durante. Ever heard of them? That's me. And our logo and merch and all of our artwork, in fact, are designed by Jamie Loftus. Ever heard of her? Oh my God. And our theme song, by the way, was composed by Mike Kaplan.

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