The Bechdel Cast - Practical Magic

Episode Date: October 17, 2019

Caitlin and Jamie discuss Practical Magic and cast a spell to dismantle the patriarchy. (This episode contains spoilers)For Bechdel bonuses, sign up for our Patreon at patreon.com/bechdelcast.Follow @BechdelCast, @caitlindurante and @jamieloftusHELP on Twitter Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Daphne Caruana Galizia was a Maltese investigative journalist who on October 16th 2017 was assassinated. Crooks Everywhere unearthed the plot to murder a one-woman WikiLeaks. She exposed the culture of crime and corruption that were turning her beloved country into a mafia state. Listen to Crooks Everywhere on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. That's right, the only, Katherine Hahn is joining us on Las Culturistas. That's right, the queen of comedy herself. Get ready for a conversation that's as hilarious as it is insightful. Tune in for all the laughs, the stories,

and of course, the culture. Don't miss Katherine Hahn on Las Culturistas. Listen to Las Culturistas on Will Ferrell's Big Money Players Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm Gianna Pradenti. And I'm Jermaine Jackson-Gadsden. We're the hosts of Let's Talk Offline from LinkedIn News and iHeart Podcasts.

There's a lot to figure out when you're just starting your career. That's where we come in. Think of us as your work besties you can turn to for advice. And if we don't know the answer, we bring in people who do, like negotiation expert Maury Tahiripour. If you start thinking about negotiations as just a conversation, then I think it sort of eases us a little bit. Listen to Let's Talk Offline on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. in them are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands or do they have individualism

the patriarchy's effing vast start changing it with the bechdel cast hello and welcome to the bechdel cast my name is caitlin dorante and my name is jamie loftus and this is our podcast about the portrayal of women in movies or as i like to say the the betrayal of women in movies sometimes don't you think? I agree. We have kind of an unusual recording situation today which is kind of nice. Yeah let's talk about it. We're in we're in your bed. We're in my bed which is where we usually record the matrion episodes if you're a member of our our patreon aka matrion yeah you know but today we're doing a main feed episode in the bed which is weird because i'm used to being loose right in the bed but now i'm like no button up not all the buttons but a couple of them i think

this will be a nice sort of blend of the silliness that we engage in a bit more on the matrion but also perhaps a bit more structured like a main feed episode life is so complicated so normally we have a guest uh we don't have one this time because we were about to record with our guest and then something came up but we weren't able to reschedule with them because i'm about to go into surgery yes i'm about to have my sludge pouch removed and by the time you listen it's probably it'll be gone it's my gallbladder but it's really a sludge pouch and if you need more information about what i'm talking about you'll just simply have to listen to sludge an american health care story my podcast about how uh the system here is very uh fucked up and biased and broken.

So give that a listen. So we weren't able to reschedule with our guest before my surgery. So it's just Jamie and I doing this. In the bed, keeping it loose, but not too loose. Yeah. And this is the last sludgy episode of the Bechdel cast, which I think we're all very grateful for. It's sludge free after this

my mom's sending you an edible arrangement we were just talking about this earlier I was like well I don't know like and she asked for your address so maybe but maybe she's gonna get on the plane she's just gonna show up she's gonna use her jet blue points oh good for Jill she loves her jet blue points and I think all of that passed the Bechtel test. Oh, yes, it did. Wow. Great structure. So we analyze.

Although actually, I think my sludge identifies as a man. Because it's vengeful and trying to ruin your life. And invading my body and space. And only a man would do that. And it is nice because it just means that we'll inherently miss it less when it's gone anyway uh oh man now i want to make a cartoon of like your sludge singing like don't make me go don't humanize my sludge i'm gonna anthropomorphize wait before you behead me doctor i just want to please my case

oh well well what if my sludge is like a witch sort of like and it's like being wrongfully persecuted and really it's just there it's it's a curse oh today's gonna be fun yes uh so we analyze movies uh using the bechdel test which i think we oh well we brought up the male identifying sludge a lot of it passed yes uh so we use the bechdel test sometimes called the bechdelace test, as a jumping off point for discussion. And the Bechdel test has a couple different requirements. Oh. Yeah. It requires that there be two female identifying characters with names. We talk to each other about something other than a man or a male sludge, of course, for more than two lines of dialogue.

It's almost like with all those dialogue incredible it's almost like with all those steps it's almost like it's like a spell in a spell book it's true or a curse or is it a curse i wonder how many times that's been said in movies it has to be a lot they're like it's a spell or a curse i feel like there's like a lot of Halloween time decoms that probably used that. Well, we're talking about Practical Magic today. It's been a long request. Yeah, it's just the two of us today. We're keeping it loose.

So let's get into it. What's your history with the film, Jamie? So I first saw Practical Magic in Lansing, Michigan last year as a part of the Capital City Film Festival. It's a show called Destroy All Cinema. And I was riffing live riffs. You'll love to hear them. On Practical Magic, which I hadn't seen, with a comedy collective based out of Lansing called Comedy Coven. So if you live in that area, please check them out.

Comedy Coven. So funny. A coven of witches, perhaps? Exactly. It consists of Trisha Chamberlain, Stephanie Ondurchanan, and Emily Serja. They're all great. I first saw it in a live capacity, and it was

kind of fun to try to piece together this movie in real time and try to be funny, because I was just like, I don't know what's happening. It's a curse. And then I've seen it a couple times to prep for this but pretty short history okay cool what's your history with practical magic this is one of those movies that i wasn't very familiar with throughout most of my life but i knew that it was something that we were getting requested all the time from listeners so i was like oh i should check this out because eventually I'm sure we'll do an episode on it so I watched it probably for the first time I would say like around a year

ago also and glad I did you know it's a fun movie and it's a weird movie weird it's structurally a bit confusing but but I also do get why people love it so much for sure i think if i had um seen it as a younger person i would have like a much stronger attachment to it and a pretty iconic cast as well like it's quality regardless getting to see sandra bullock and nicole kidman as sisters rules diane weist is there stockard channing is there and a young Evan Rachel Wood oh yeah one of the daughters so there is I mean

it's a very confusing movie but everyone is committed 100% and so we simply have no choice but to stand yeah should we get into it I mean I am curious, what was your interest in witchy culture and stuff like that when you were younger? Were

you really interested in it? No, not not, I would say at all. I wasn't like, I hate it. And I think it's stupid or anything like that. It just isn't something that ever piqued my interest. Well, what about you? I thought I was a witch until I was about 11 years old. Oh, very fun. And not a Harry Potter witch, as all listeners of the podcast will know.

I was not a Harry Potter stan as a child. I thought I was like a practical magic kind of witch because I have two relatives who run a new age shop in Massachusetts. I was very steeped in it from a very young age oh kind of like the one that Sally runs in the movie yeah yeah except like I mean even more so but yeah it was uh they they do not work there anymore but yeah like my aunt and uncle worked at a new age shop and would do readings and would do and you know we're very nurtured I

think it's weird because I like grew up going to church but I think that like new age stuff was what appealed to me more in terms of like religion and like shaping my self-identity but I really love it and and it's funny because I think that this movie is kind of peak like scratching the surface of that culture in kind of a very basic way that I think probably would have been appealing to me had I seen it at the time but yeah I'm always just anytime that there's a movie with witches I'm like oh yes because my mom fully was like you're a witch you have powers I was like yes oh that's so cool yeah it was cool the growing up thinking you're a witch i can't recommend it enough it is very fun my like family because i was effectively raised as an atheist like it was a

completely secular household so i had no religion growing up and i think because of that i just nothing like supernatural or like mystic or magical or anything like that really appealed to me is something that I would want to like embrace is anything other than fiction like I love writing fiction about it but I wasn't like I wasn't like this is going to be a part of my lifestyle or anything like that totally I think what appealed about it to me as a kid especially was like I didn't like going to church like it was weird I think that like we just went because my parents were like oh we're supposed to do that but like I went to Catholic churches for a little while. I went to

a congregational church for a little while. I mean, my parents and my aunt and uncle called it paganism. I don't know if this technically even falls under that umbrella. But what appealed to me and what appealed to me about witchy culture was that it was the only semi-religious structure that empowered you a little bit and gave you some control as opposed to the shame and the constant asking for forgiveness that from the other religions that i had experienced where like this was like oh it's like uh you know you're being empowered to you know whether you're casting spells or doing rituals or whatever it is like you have some ability to cause change and make things

happen interesting so well there's a whole discussion to be had kind of about witches witchcraft the history there in all that stuff oh yeah we we can we'll get there we will for now let's discuss the story let's do it recap okay so we begin learning that women in the owens family are witches and they have magical powers the first of them was their ancestor maria from colonial puritan times yes and she was banished on an island with her unborn child for being a witch. And she stayed there waiting for her lover to come rescue her, but he never came. So she cast a spell that she would never again feel the agony of love, which eventually turned into a curse on any man who would love an Owens woman. And that curse will kill them will it's a curse and it will straight up

kill them then we meet two owens sisters as children sally and jillian their father died because of this curse uh there's like this beetle that comes around and makes this like chirping sound and that's how you know the man is gonna going to die soon. Right? I love that plot device. I don't know, it's like a beetle or something. And then their mom dies, I guess shortly after that of a broken heart. So the two sisters go to live with their two aunts, Franny, that's Stockard Channing's character and Jet, Diane Wiest. And their aunts are also witches who teach them magic. They live somewhere in New England. I was guessing either, I think they live on an island.

I think that they might live on a coast. Or on Nantucket or something. Yeah, that's what I was thinking. It was giving me some Nantucket vibes. Yeah, I would say Nantucket or Martha's Vineyard. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Surprised it didn't take place in like Salem, but who knows? Yeah, I don't know.

And everyone in the town hates the whole family for being witches. Witch, witch, you're a bitch. You're like, let's punch that up. All right. Does it pass the Bechdel test, though? Maybe. It does. God, I was just like, man, there were three writers on this movie and we couldn't we couldn't

do better than which which you're a bitch but kids are like not smart enough to come up with something more clever kids are geniuses caitlin i'm sorry i'm so sorry there should have been shakespearean prose there iambic pentameter bullying yes okay so we get to know the two girls a little bit better jilly can't wait to fall in love but sally says she hopes she never falls in love because she sees how much agony it causes people so sally casts a spell a love spell about a man who she thinks will never exist because if he doesn't exist uh she won't have to fall in love with him and then he won't die um and she won't have to deal with a broken heart right this imaginary man can flip pancakes his favorite shape is a star and he has one green eye and one blue eye

which is like okay i mean i feel like there are people out there like that like i think she's kind of a low yeah like i mean i guess that finding someone two different colored eyes is is a little more difficult but i'm like pant likes pancakes and stars that's like you're describing a five-year-old like i don't know right but sure yes so then we cut to the sisters as adults sally is sandraock. Jilly is Nicole Kidman. And Jilly runs away with this guy that she's in love with. Nicole Kidman, in terms of having her Australian accent not out, it's so different from movie to movie to the point where I'm like, is it like it depends on how she's being directed. But it's like it's like sort of at bay.

Oh, really? I wasn't noticing that, but also. There's certain, I don't know. I guess my Nicola Kidman meter is very sensitive because sometimes I'm just like, how did you know? Come on. There's a few, but whatever. I mean, you do watch a lot of Big Little Lies, so that makes sense. Yeah.

And she, you know, the end of the first season for some reason she's just like i'm australian and i was like okay we know but you're not supposed to be right now we'll have a talk about it so jilly runs away with this guy but meanwhile sally wants to have like kind of a more like grounded quote normal life yes like the nuclear family right yes and then sally spots this guy michael and she and him suddenly fall in love almost as if a spell were cast on them or a curse as a spell as it occurs we don't know and then they start kissing in the street. A Faith Hill song is playing. Is it? It's this kiss.

Yes. This kiss. This kiss. One of the many moments. This movie is tonally all over. It's just completely. So tonally inconsistent. You're just like constantly suffering from whiplash from the previous scene.

Faith Hill, I think, is one of the, first of all, best, second of all, most jarring moments of, like, this is supposed to be, like, kind of like a, you know, like you kind of expect a more Fiona Appley song there, like at least, like, an artist with some more mysterious witchy vibes. Oh, sure. I wouldn't describe Faith Hill as that artist well especially because like if you hear country music like that it conjures up the south you know the american south and not new

england so yeah i it was it was a choices were made i i don't i don't think it's a bad choice weird choice but i do like weird choice it's a weird choice but i do like it as with most things in this movie you're like for sure so cut to a few years later sally and michael are married they have two daughters but that death beetle starts coming around and starts chirping his little beetles just what Beetlejuice comes out like. Sorry, I only have two sound effects. What if Beetlejuice can turn into a beetle and then it's the same? What if Beetlejuice and Practical Magic take place in the same extended universe? I would buy it.

I wish that a Faith Hill song played during Beetlejuice. What's another Faith Hill song? i can't name a second one yeah i don't know nothing against her i just uh wasn't really there sure you know i just know that one okay so the beetle's chirping and sally's husband gets hit by a truck and dies oh in a very dramatic the fruit flying in that scene because he's a fruit salesman and it's slow-mo fruit and then we're like oh no her love killed him because women's emotions are lethal oh god well anyways fruit goes flying yes bye-bye yep so then sally goes to her aunts and she's like this curse is real and it's why my husband died and then they reveal that they had cast a spell on the two of them to make them fall in love and she's like even more furious and she tells them

to bring him back from the dead because they're witches they have the ability to do that but they refuse because if they do that he'll come back all dark and unnatural so sally just has to accept what has happened and she is grieving and then she decides to stop doing magic right meanwhile jilly has been traveling around she's partying she's meeting a bunch of people she's got a wig on and a classic kidman wig i've got a shout out i have well i'll do it in a second but there was recently a power ranking of all of nicole kidman's wigs is she ever not wearing a wig in a movie we We may not know what her hair is. I thought that was,

I just thought that was her natural hair in this movie. I, they're on the wig rank. I mean, and I'm just using this. Okay. I've visited this a few days ago. This is from qz.com by Sangeeta Singh Kurtz.

And it's a ranking of all of her wigs based on this list it does seem like she is usually wearing a wig even when it seems like she's not including in um like i thought that was her natural hair in moulin rouge apparently it is not it is a wig so i just go off the assumption that nicole kim is always wearing a wig what if she is bald underneath making her the baldest woman in charge that would explain so much really yes it sure would we can't but anyways she's got she's got intense 90s bangs and i love it in this movie definitely and i think right now she's in arizona with this guy jimmy angel love sure who turns out to be abusive so sally goes to rescue jilly from him but he kidnaps them both and holds them hostage so they drug him but accidentally overdose and kill him and they're

like oh my god what are we gonna do we're gonna go to jail the cops won't believe it's self-defense so jilly has the idea that they cast the spell on him to bring him back to life and since he's already dark and unnatural they figure it won't matter right so they go back to the aunt's house they do the spell they put the lime in the coconut etc sure that happens right then yeah um and then he comes back but he is aggressive and he starts choking jilly so they knock him out and then they bury him in the backyard but they decide not to tell the aunts right but jimmy's spirit starts haunting them and he ruins their midnight margarita night rude rude the god one of the most the most iconic scene of this movie yes and the most tonally dissonant i think because there are children upstairs and they are

screaming screaming but like and then they're immediately sober in the next scene in one moment they're like laughing and dancing and having a good time and then the next moment they're like calling each other like sluts and witches and like and then the next scene requires for them to be stone-cold sober even though we just saw them being fully blackout drunk you know it's just it is what it is we just have to we just have to buy it they're witches they can they cast a spell the the sober now spell or is it a curse so oh it keeps getting me it's funny okay so then this guy gary shows up he is a detective investigating the disappearance of jimmy angel of yeah and sally gets flustered and accidentally tells him that jimmy kidnapped jilly but they got away using his car because they like

have his car and he's like why is his car in your driveway and they're like oh yeah whoopsies but they're like but we don't know where he is so gary keeps hanging around town he's trying to gather information and then sally's daughters find sally's spell book or curse book and they find that the spell of the made-up man that she made when she was a little like the guy who has the eyes and the pancakes and the stars yeah and they start to realize that Gary has all of those traits that she described in the spell curse they're like wait gary do you like pancakes they're like oh my god it's that he can flip them you're right he doesn't even like them he just can flip them he hates those of a way once he's oh brother gary god honestly setting a pretty low bar for for the dream man but sure

and then gary finds jimmy's ring because a frog barfs it up which you love to see good practical effect practical magic look at that a little cinema knowledge and then's like, you ladies are in big trouble. You better get a lawyer. And then Sally decides to tell him the truth, which she sort of does, except that she's like speaking in riddles and then they start kissing. And then she notices that he has one green eye and one blue eye and she's like no i can't and then jimmy's spirit shows up and gary is like what the fuck is happening and then the sisters kill the spirit or at least they think they do or is it a curse nor is it

and then sally tells gary that she had cast this spell when she was a little girl. And she's like, that's why you're here. And we'll never know if this is even true love or if it's just this spell curse thing. And he's like, I don't believe in curses. I wished for you too. And we're like, oh my gosh. Oh my gosh oh my god but then we find out that jimmy's spirit is still around and has possessed jilly whoopsies so they need a coven of 12 women to banish this spirit right so sally

who has been made like the top of the call tree at her daughter's school because jilly cast a spell to make her that right so she called all the moms from her daughter's school to come help and be a part of this coven and together they exercise jilly and kill jimmy's ghost and sweep his dust out of the house because women be cleaning. Women be sweeping. But also witch imagery. Rooms. True. And then Sally and Gary kiss because Gary comes back. And then everything's fun.

And then they fly off the roof because it's Halloween. Yeah. And that is the story. So let's take a quick break and then we'll come right back to discuss. Yay! Daphne Caruana Galizia was a Maltese investigative journalist who on October 16th, 2017, was murdered. There are crooks everywhere you look now. The situation is desperate.

My name is Manuel Delia. I am one of the hosts of Crooks Everywhere, a podcast that unhurts the plot to murder a one-woman Wikileaks. Daphne exposed the culture of crime and corruption that were turning her beloved country into a mafia state. And she paid the ultimate price. crime, and corruption that were turning her beloved country into a mafia state. And she paid the ultimate price. Listen to Crooks everywhere on the iHeartRadio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey everybody, this is Matt Rogers. And Bowen Yang. We've got some exciting news for you. You know we're always bringing you the best guests, right? Well, this week we're taking it to the next level. The one, the only, Katherine Hahn is joining us on Lost Culture East. That's right, the queen of comedy herself.

Get ready for a conversation that's as hilarious as it is insightful. Tune in for all the laughs, the stories, and of course, the culture. I feel some Sandra Bernhardt in you. Oh my God, I would love it.

I have to watch Lost. Oh, you have to. No, I know, I'm so behind. Katherine Hahn can sing. Oh, I'm really good at karaoke. What's your song? Yeah, what's your song? Oh, I'm really good at karaoke. What's your song? Yeah, what's your song? Oh, I love a ballad. I felt Bjork's music.

I just was like, who is this person? I got to hawk this slalom, Ludi. Not hawk the slalom. I absolutely love it. It was somehow Shakespearean when you said it. It was somehow gorgeous. Yee, my slok, you hollum.

Listen to Las Culturistas on Will Ferrell's Big Money Players Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm Gianna Pradente. And I'm Jemay Jackson-Gadsden. We're the hosts of Let's Talk Offline, a new podcast from LinkedIn News and iHeart Podcasts. When you're just starting out in your career, you have a lot of questions like, how do I speak up when I'm feeling overwhelmed? Or can I negotiate a higher salary if this is my first real job? Girl, yes. Each week, we answer your unfiltered work questions. Think of us as your work besties you can turn to for advice.

And if we don't know the answer, we bring in experts who do, like resume specialist Morgan Saner. The only difference between the person who doesn't get the job and the person who gets the job is usually who applies. Yeah, I think a lot about that quote. What is it like you miss 100 percent of the shots you never take? Yeah, rejection is scary, but it's better than you rejecting yourself. Together, we'll share what it really takes to thrive in the early years of your career without sacrificing your sanity or sleep. Listen to Let's Talk Offline on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And we're back. Welcome back. Oh, boy. There's a lot to discuss. Yes, as per usual. Per usual.

So, I mean, something that I wanted to just sort of get out there right at the jump is this movie is an extremely white movie. Oh, yeah. As are most movies still, but particularly, I mean, in the late 90s, this is very, very typical. Oh, yeah. that women of color and specifically black women have been othered and accused of being witches just as much as white women. But as is normal with American history, the struggle of women of color with the exact same issues compounded with race are kind of generally erased from the narrative. And I think that we see that in virtually every story about the salem witch trials too like there were also black women who were killed and demonized during the salem witch trials and yet most of the narratives that we see are focused on white ladies so um so yeah i just

wanted to mention that right at the jump of like i love witchy representation but it is just not extended to uh women who are not white in american movies very often even i mean i think that our other main witchy movie we've covered the craft one of the witches in that movie is black but she's criminally underwritten yeah and just done a disservice by the movie as a whole. And the focus is always on the white girls. I mean, we've kind of revisited these late 90s classic mistakes over and over. But this movie is certainly guilty of it as well. Yeah. Another thing, and this is less of a kind of historical erasure thing and more of just like, I suppose, metaphorical or just sort of like a thing that happens in the narrative

but so the the owens women are they're always othered right by the community who has like cast them out and called them witches and bitches yeah um and then there's a a moment toward the end as sally is like calling the phone tree and she's like, hey, you know that thing that everyone's been whispering about me about how I'm a witch? Well, it's true. So she effectively comes out. And then a scene right after that is like her colleague at like the like witch shop that she runs. That character is like, did hear sally just came out which of course is language used for queer like when queer people aware of this yeah and so it's like taking the

like borrowing or maybe even appropriating this experience that we thrust upon queer people a burden that we put upon them because of how heteronormative society is. And it's like, well, if you don't, if you are not hetero, then it is your burden and responsibility to come out. And then to ascribe that to what Sally is doing, I thought was peculiar at best. It was just another bizarro misguided like what was the objective of yeah

this scene so yeah that those are a couple of things right off right at the top yeah we're not the best choices to be made yeah so there's yeah there's definitely a lot of issues what is what did you like about this movie what did you feel this movie did well well uh there's a fair amount because it is a predominantly female cast yes uh there it is largely about women at least of the characters that we get to know the most supporting each other they do not have the support of their community until the very end but even that's nice when like the moms who have been like you know making snide comments and casting them out of the community they even come to help a woman in need so i like that it's largely about like women supporting women sisters supporting

sisters um there's three generations of sisters and which is cool really cool they're all living together they're all practicing you know witchcraft i like that they also make mistakes it's not like the like the perfect female friendships that we sort of see in movies where they're like you know women can only be friends and connected if they do it perfectly which is a trope that drives me insane and i mean every every woman in this movie is human right as well as being a witch um and and makes mistakes that the aunts make the well intentioned mistake of being like but we wanted you to have love in your life and she's like well now my husband is dead my husband

yeah where's the scene where uh sandra bullock is staring at her husband's grave i miss you so fucking much we should do another episode on the rock i feel like with the benefit of you know a year and a half i'm like i think I think there's more to say there. I miss you so much. But then like the inverse of like these like perfect female friendships or relationships is something else we see that's very troubling in movies, which is women hating each other for no reason. Irrationally. And neither of those things happen in this movie. Right.

Which is great and i especially do i mean and there are problematic things that happen inside of this relationship but i do like the relationship between sally and jilly i like that they're very different but the i don't know just like even like the little touch of like they can feel they can instinctively know when the other person is in trouble. Especially when Jilly, even though they have like their differences and conflicts that Sally is Jilly's first call when she is being abused was a moment that I was like, oh,

that's like a real, you know, like that was, oh, that's like a beautiful sister thing that actually felt in a movie that does not feel grounded in reality at all, a more grounded, good moment. And I know that it's like, you know, we're not endorsing murder here, but the fact that, you know, their bond is so strong and Sally generally, I mean, she believes Jilly. Sally's annoyed that jilly's in this predicament which i don't think is necessarily fair but she is also like i obviously believe

you and uh if we gotta kill this guy we gotta kill this guy you know which you know that's there's not a one-to-one application in the real world but i do like that like intense loyalty and trust and belief of each other for sure that is they even make a pact that like they must die at the same time like if one of them is gonna die it's gonna die i love childhood packs and the people who take them seriously right my cut like me and my two cousins were so so we all thought we were witches this was like in the same time we and we made a pact we were like between like 10 and 12 where we were like oh well if if we get married someday we have the other like we won't choose a maid of honor both of you will be my maids of honor and then they're keeping

that promise which I'm like oh that's so it's so nice and it makes me cry to think about but I'm also like we were stupid yeah do whatever you want and also being a maid of honor is really hard i don't want to do it twice but you know here we are but yeah i mean just the the closeness that they show and i mean i was even getting some felman louise vibes from this movie yeah but it's it's like... Is it just because it was a redhead and a brunette with an inseparable blonde? No, because they kill a man.

Oh, that's true. And then they have to... They think about going to the police, but they're like, the police won't believe us because police often do not believe women if they're victims of assault or anything like that. But this movie is if Thelma and Louise were witches and Susan Sarandon falls in love with the Harvey Keitel character. So I thought that was very funny.

But yeah, I mean, they kill an abuser. They contemplate going to the police saying it was self-defense they know they won't be believed so they have to take matters into their own hands and that's pretty much what's on the louise that's true and it's and you know maybe this movie is a little less gracefully written but but all the main points were there this movie i this is also like kind of unrelated but this movie is directed by joan didion's nephew oh so if not feminist icon feminist icon adjacent to be sure uh griffin dunn griffin dunn yes and it was written by let's see screenwriters were robin swickard yes robin swickard is very. She has written a lot of iconic movies, including Little Women, which we'll be covering on the

cast soon, Matilda, the Jane Austen Book Club. And she wrote, she helped, she was one of the credited writers on Memoirs of a Geisha and Curie's Case of Benjamin Button. She's written a lot. Interesting. She was one of the writers, as was Akiva Goldsman. Don't really know her background. His background. of the writers as was akiva goldsman don't really know her background uh his his background he wrote batman forever batman and robin i robot i am legend cinderella man so this is kind of

an outlier in his catalog okay sure and then the final writer was adam brooks adam brooks has credits including wimbledon bridget jones the edge of reason okay go off king so it's written co-written by two men one woman but it's based on a novel by a woman alice hoffman who is an icon in that she lives in boston wow yes brave saw a lot of signed alice hoffman's locally swish that's it but she's she's a she's written a lot of popular books. I don't really know. I mean, I would be curious to know how this strays from the book, but I'm not sure. Yeah, I have not read, as per usual.

Wait, this is not a book podcast. Haven't read a book. Cancel us. So sorry. But if you do have insight, feel free to offer it in the comments. And if you've read a book, feel free to just tweet at us and brag about it. Because it ain't easy. Who has the time?

Books are long. I fall asleep. So, you know. Yeah, I mean, other things to like about this movie, I think, are that, I mean, yeah, it's just largely a story about women supporting each other. Because as you, you know, already pointed out, it's Sally helping Jilly with her abusive boyfriend. Like, it's just no questions asked. She just, like, drops everything, gets on the next flight, and goes to help her uh then we see the scene where uh jilly learns that sally is never picked at the top of the phone tree chain thing at her daughter's school

and she goes and casts that spell that so that she's at the top it's very very lovely like the the portrayal of motherhood i thought was lovely and or you know just female guardianship in general because we're talking about the aunts um the sisters the sisterhood is bought i love i do love in in movies when two women uh band together to kill a predator it is very cathartic and fun to watch especially when it's a frosty tipped loser, like Jimmy angel love, which he was full. No, he spiritually had frosty tips though.

He definitely spiritually had them. I also liked that. They were very different. As you already said, also like they had very different lifestyles. Like Julie was all about like going out and fucking a bunch of people. It seems. Whereas Sally wanted the more kind of traditional nuclear family unit lifestyle but like neither of them ever judged the other for the lifestyle they wanted there was some like

light teasing which feels kind of on par for how sisters treat each other but like yeah it did feel like there wasn't really a value judgment placed on either of them even by the movie right on like this is just how this character is chosen to live and both of them and it's also like because i you know like a red flag that i would immediately assume because they are kind of as i love that they're different but they're you know they're written kind of like tropey different like this is the fun one and this is the one that wants the family like it's basically like the charlotte and the samantha right which but but but i feel like what would normally happen which doesn't here which is great is that um the fun one quote unquote is either mocked or punished

in some way for being you know like sexually active right which is like such a you know age-old trope but they both i mean they both get into pretty deep shit and like it i don't think that necessarily one of them is more screwed over than the other because you know nicole kidman although it is she's the one that ends up i think the only difference is the men that they end up with at least briefly um is that nicole kibben the sexually active independent uh you know left her hometown one is the one that ends up in a relationship with an abuser whereas sally who wants the nuclear family ended up with a sweetie pie who uh loved her but then was hit by a truck because she loved him too much. Right. But then also like, because Nicole Kidman's character ends up with this abuser who they then kill.

And then she doesn't like get another guy at the end, but which is great. But I feel like that's almost maybe like nineties narratives kind of punishing her. Maybe arguably for like you, you had a shot and you messed it up but this this nice lady she had a husband and yes he died because the beetle was there but also then he gets she gets to fall she gets to fall in love with this other guy yeah so that would say that so

that's like yeah i i totally see what you're saying and the fact that sand Sandra Bullock gets to date two great guys and Nicole Kidman gets one horrible abuser is kind of like, and it's like to the point where you're like, I don't even know that the writers were consciously making that value judgment. But it does sort of when you're in over analysis mode, you're like, the optics aren't great and of course like you and i don't see like a woman getting a relationship as a reward the way that like a lot of narratives but this but this narrative does see that as a reward every movie in 1998 considers a hetero relationship between two boring people the best uh the best the best that you can expect from life right um so yeah and and it also you know like people in uh who desire a nuclear family it's not like they don't sometimes end up in abusive relationships and you know reinforcing the idea that every nuclear family is impervious to abuse and conflict is a very hollywood narrative that you're fed. For sure. So yes, maybe we are overanalyzing it a little bit,

but it's how we feel. That's our job. Okay, that's our job. That's why you pay zero dollars to listen to this, okay? We're going to take a quick break, but let's come back soon, shall we? Yeah, let's do it. Daphne Caruana Galizia was a Maltese investigative journalist who on October 16th 2017 was murdered

there are crooks everywhere you look now the situation is desperate my name is Manuel Delia I am one of the hosts of Crooks Everywhere a podcast that unhearts the plot to murder a one-woman Wikileaks. Daphne exposed the culture of crime and corruption that were turning her beloved country into a mafia state. And she paid the ultimate price.

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I feel some Sandra Bernhard in you. Oh my God, I would love it. I have to watch Lost. Oh, you have to. No, I know. I'm so behind. Katherine Hanken's thing. Oh, I'm really good at karaoke.

What's your song? Yeah, what's your song? Oh, I love a ballad. I felt Bjork's music. I just was like, who is this person? I got to hawk this slalom, Ludi. Not hawk the slalom. I absolutely love it.

It was somehow Shakespearean when you said it. It was somehow gorgeous. Yee, my slok, you hollum. Listen to Las Culturistas on Will Ferrell's Big Money Players Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm Gianna Prudente. And I'm Jemay Jackson-Gadsden. We're the hosts of Let's Talk Offline, a new podcast from LinkedIn News and iHeart Podcasts.

When you're just starting out in your career, you have a lot of questions. Like, how do I speak up when I'm feeling overwhelmed? Or, can I negotiate a higher salary if this is my first real job? you have a lot of questions. Like, how do I speak up when I'm feeling overwhelmed? Or, can I negotiate a higher salary if this is my first real job? Girl, yes. Each week, we answer your unfiltered work questions. Think of us as your work besties you can turn to for advice.

And if we don't know the answer, we bring in experts who do, like resume specialist Morgan Saner. The only difference between the person who doesn't get the job and the person who gets the job is usually who applies. Yeah, I think a lot about that quote. What is it like you miss 100% of the shots you never take?

Yeah, rejection is scary, but it's better than you rejecting yourself. Together, we'll share what it really takes to thrive in the early years of your career without sacrificing your sanity or sleep. Listen to Let's Talk Offline on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And we're back. Well, I can't believe you cast so many spells or were they curses? They were curses.

During that break. They were curses. I liked it. All right. What would you like to discuss next i mean kind of continuing a little bit off of the romantic interests that the movie has for the characters i feel and i say this a lot but here we go again i feel that the romantic storyline between sandra bullock's character sally and aiden quinn gary yeah uh is not necessary and probably didn't need to be in the movie my guess is this is a studio notes relationship or Or I feel I wouldn't be surprised if it was in the original, the novel. In the book.

And it was just adapted that way. Hard to say. We can't make that call at all having not read the book. Because we refuse to read a book. But either way, I would have liked the story a bit better if it had just been two women having to deal with this abuser they kill him accidentally again we don't endorse murder on the bechtel cast yeah but this is a it's a movie but it's a movie and so we do endorse killing in the movie right yeah they have to deal with the aftermath of that i think that could have been handled just as well and effectively had there

not been this romantic storyline wedged in because that ends up being a weird thing where he like stops doing his job as a criminal investigator because of this spell that or curse that she's cast and he's like yeah we've ruled his death as an accident and we did we don't know this body is not anywhere we never found the body we don't know what happened but uh my job as a criminal investigator i'm just gonna put that on the back burner it's just confusing while i'm in love with this woman it does feel like and like his character ultimately it feels like an attempt at raising stakes because he's brought in at like oh no now there's someone on their tail but yeah he's kind of like the way his character is treated as like oh like you don't get the feeling that if he finds out he's gonna be like you're going to jail like

it doesn't really heighten the stakes that much it's just it for me it was like just a distraction of like i guess aidan quinn is here whatever i don't know i wasn't a big fan of that either i thought that you know i would have liked a little more of maybe the daughters there was other use of that real estate right or the aunts can do something yeah the fact that him being there as an obstacle fine but the fact that then he and sally end up in a relationship uh didn't work for me and he was never even like a particularly like he just doesn't because he's immediately like there's there's like chemistry between them you're like he doesn't seem like a particularly like difficult obstacle like i don't know right um the fact also that one of the huge vehicles that like drives this whole narrative is the idea of like romantic love and it's like who's in love with who who's

in a relationship how does that affect our lives like so let's talk about that too because that was like one of the things on on this rewatch where you're like we really only with some exceptions like there's a little spell that she does at the school there's like small little plot spells that we see that we're like oh that's she's stirring her coffee with right magic like basic kind of stuff that you're like okay they can move things with their minds that's cool but you really only ever see their magic in practice as it is related to men. And as it is related to their like different relationships. And I think that that is like another thing that you're just like, like, they, you know, I would have liked to see like, what can they actually do outside of navigating around

this curse that I think is also inherently like there's something loaded in there too, where the concept, the curses, you know, any man or is it a spell though? It's a curse. Yeah, I know. It's always a curse. But the idea that, you know, all men who ever love these women will die just sort of, you know, like goes into that sort of nasty trope that just means like women's emotions are somehow a dangerous thing. And that treating a woman kindly and like loving a woman properly is somehow dooming you like it does sort of tie into and i feel like doesn't isn't really examined by the movie that much of like reasons that witches or people who are perceived to be witches used to be executed which was just like women with too much power it was a fear of it was either like an excuse to get rid of a woman that the powers that be didn't like and were stepped out of line in some way. Or it was a condemnation of women in STEM and like healers and yeah, witches were usually considered or thought to be witches when they were stepping outside of societal norms and and disproportionately women who were menopausal

or post-menopausal were so like older or elderly women were often thought to be witches more so um poor women yeah uh widowed women or un like never married women were all like these types of women were to be more likely to be persecuted for being witches right and so it just like the entire culture surrounding the persecution of people accused of being witches just ties into this like fear of women straying out of what is their societally expected role right it's just like stepping out of line means you're more likely to literally get murdered for no reason and i think that this movie does some things to challenge it but it is again a very late 90s safe challenge because most of their magic is in direct

relation to hetero stuff yeah and uh results you know the result like you were just talking about is a romantically fulfilling hetero relationship for the character who is not more sexually active who who more subscribed to the the idea of the american woman role yes but yeah i mean just in general like just in terms of what i think would have been more fun to watch is to see you know how they could use their magic in ways that didn't directly relate to men right for sure yeah even so i think it is nice to see positive representation of like witchy characters in media because media has usually done what society has done in terms of its treatment of people who were assumed to be witches uh which is which is to which is

wow words um which is to paint them in very negative ways. Yes. Witch characters in movies are usually like the evil... Ursula. Ursula. The sea witch. Yeah. Scary bad witches who are evil and nefarious.

And I think normally jealous, too, is a defining quality of like the traditional hollywood witch character is that like the snow white evil stepmother witch yeah like envy is really tied in and that has kind of nothing to do with the 90s witch um which is fun because i mean which and this is kind of weird this is like coming out in a moment where it's kind of like a peak, like cool, trendy 90s witch. Because it's like at this time we have the craft, I think comes out shortly after this. We have. Our craft was, I think, a couple years before.

Is it before? I believe so. So we have that. We have Sabrina, the teenage witch. Harry Potter is about to come out in a couple of years. Hocus Pocus. Hocus Pocus. Like the 90s is full.

Halloween Town. Halloween Town. Halloween Town for crying out loud. Like it's like this is a big moment for sympathizing with witch characters. Also the Witches of Eastwick. Oh right. Which I have not seen and don't know what that movie is about. But it might be an example as well. Don't know.

We don't know we don't know if someone has um every time that something like specific like this comes up i'm like hey if anyone's written their thesis paper on this email me a pdf because i would be curious as to like because like the mid to late 90s is loaded like there's just this huge boost in which characters being portrayed sympathetically and not just sympathetically but being portrayed as like cool and aspirational uh-huh and i wonder why that is i wonder like societally what was uh what was what was going on that made that made that cool i'm glad it happened yeah i would i wanted to come back because it was and be more you know inclusive this time yeah definitely it was a good

departure from the way witches had previously been represented which is also not which is also not at all reflective of the women who were actually condemned for being witches throughout history so it's just been so muddied and it's weird i mean i i like the the all cool reboot of witches i think it's fun and and awesome and like just was very influential on me as a kid too like so i i'm very biased in saying it because i was like oh this is my shit but it was very cool um can we talk a little bit about the um jimmy situation uh yes let's talk about him so there is like the depiction in some ways of an abusive relationship in this movie between jilly and jimmy and i will say i know this is like a polarizing topic and everyone's gonna have a different opinion i was kind of

pleasantly surprised with how this movie handled it partially because he gets killed which is great and cathartic But I I mean we sort of talked about this already but I really liked that Jilly called her sister right away when the relationship truly became volatile and Sought support from her sister. I thought that that was like a pretty realistic strong move on the part of the like I was weirdly like very affected by that every time I see that scene and I don't know I mean I I it's also implied uh in a way that was I think it's just like that relationship because it gets so cartoony and I think Jimmy is maybe a little too cartoony and i think jimmy is maybe a little too cartoony for an abuser uh in in some

ways where it's like you know he he's up and then bonk him on the head and he's down like there is like a cartoony nature of how they kill him but another thing that kind of affected me and i was like oh that's like more nuance than i would expect from this movie I guess is that Jilly makes it clear that she really did like have feelings for him and and loved him and didn't have guilt about that and was like honest about that with her sister and that was another thing that I was like oh that's more than I would expect from a movie like this and I also found to be just something like oh I don't know how often you see that because I you know so often when abusive relationships are portrayed we see the characters

in the movie being like well why don't you leave why don't you do that like just all the kind of normal blamey stuff for women that are in abusive relationships but to hear her you know say genuinely that she did love him and she was afraid of him and you know now she we'd see the moment where she says enough is enough i need to seek out help to get out of this situation i thought was was kind of well done and i was again just be i think mostly because it came out in 1998 where it's like you know everything is blamey and weird i was i was like very impressed with like the way that that played out and like we've discussed before that sally doesn't um at any point not believe her sister um and then you know however cartoonish i think i mean it would have

been a little weird if they didn't kill him in a weird cartoony way i guess yeah just because of the tone of the movie but in a very cathartic way i think for women who have been in abusive relationships it is always very fun for us to be like and then he gets killed and no one gets in trouble because that's just like a fun fantasy right um but yeah i don't know i was generally impressed with how this movie handled it right because all relationships are complicated including ones with abusers yes so but movies often fail to explore any of the complexities of those relationships and usually just paint the abuser as being just like extremely cartoony and he is especially after he's killed sillier and sillier but up till the beginning beginning. Before that, yeah. Yeah, I agree. I think the movie

handled that fairly responsibly. It was nice. Yeah. And I think we've discussed this, I think, more on the matrion, weirdly, than on the main feed. But the idea that, I mean, just statistically women are more commonly abused and assaulted by men that they already know.

And that's not to say, I mean, it does happen with strangers, but I think that there is this disproportionate representation in movies of it happening from a stranger right um and less often from characters that the female character already knows and I I'm sure that that has something to do with the discomfort with male audience members seeing themselves or qualities of themselves in an abusive character and that's something i think it was what was it the girl with the dragon tattoo episode where we had like a long conversation about that and i'm not saying that jimmy is like a character that men will really see themselves in because he is like a late 90s goth

which is not super common any longer but it is i don't know just like setting the groundwork i think for what is a more common abusive relationship than what we see in movies a lot yeah was uh you know points for sure points uh you hinted at the bonking of the head yes the bonking of the sacred bonking of the head. Yes, the bonking of the head. The sacred bonking of the head. Well, I'm glad you brought it up because this is one of many examples we see in a movie of a woman using specifically a frying pan as a weapon. Yes. Which is, it is like a cartoon example. Yeah. So right after they bring Jimmy back to life, after they've killed him the first time with poison, they bring him back to life.

He starts choking and attacking Jilly. So Sally bonks him on the head with a skillet, you know, because women be using domestic items as weapons. Right. They never get their own weapons. But I was like, you but, you know, magic like using domestic items as weapons right they never get their own weapons but i was like you but you know magic like surely there's right conjure up like a thing to like make him go to sleep again or something i don't know but um no you're totally right like it is like that's another confusing use of like it's implied that they can do infinity magic but they only do like hetero relationship

magic which is like right come on show me something else um but i've been i've been keeping a a little tally of all the movies that we see this very specific thing happening of a woman bonking a man with a frying pan oh i've got raiders of the Lost Ark. Yes. Chocolat. Oh. Yep, that happens there. I forgot about that. Who Framed Roger Rabbit. Yes. Those are the only ones I could think of off the top of my head, but I know there are more because I know we've talked about others.

But yeah, it's a trope that this movie did choose to subscribe to, although they probably weren't even aware of that they were doing it as they were writing it but also yes how about that midnight margarita scene oh my god so much fun iconic and weird in every way it's so bizarre because it's sandwiched between two heavy scenes yes and totally yes weird and incongruous oh i don't know we're alert sure that was a word even that was it was adjacent to a word okay thank you uh there that was like i could i'm like man if you were like the director of that movie that'd be so hard because you're like it doesn't fit but i like it so much i guess just put it in wherever i just i love to see women having fun in a movie because you don't see it that much you don't see women get to have fun

fun together yeah it's so it was really nice um but then they are being like you're a witch you're a slut but then they do you sally's like when since when has being a slut been a crime in this family so coming to the defense of her sister she's like i'm reclaiming the term they're like all right 1998 uh yeah no at this movie uh you know unfortunately and in some ways i can understand it was not very successful um it did not make back its budget unfortunately which is but you know I mean and these are big stars at this time so I think it was probably surprising that this movie didn't make its money back sure and a lot of the criticism around it at the time was based around the tonal issues which you know we can't deny them so there wasn't even i mean uh on the on the cursory check i did because you know we like to go back and see how movies were reviewed because there's a lot of the

especially the further back you go most film critics are white guys and so when movies come out for anyone that isn't them they're like hated it they're or even just like i liked it but what like i liked it but like i don't think it was written for me and and then be like i'm docking you to star it wasn't made for me um not as much of it there most of the criticism around this movie surrounded the the tonal issues which uh is a valid criticism and they're like but nicole kidman and sandra bullock are great would love to see them in more movies which i also agree with agree so yeah um just a couple last things from me one other thelma and louise parallel oh both movies end with uh either the two women jumping off or driving off of a surface yeah one goes far better than the other yep so that's just a little

and then finally there is a black cat that keeps popping up in the movie do you talk about it well it's just that cats have eight nipples and that's cat facts with caitlin yes but also black cats there's still superstition around them black cats are much harder to get adopted in like places like the spca and stuff like that because people still have a superstition around black cats can i tell you something yes please two years after this movie was released when i was seven years old, I adopted a black cat. And he lived for 15 years and he was really mean. Oh, he was mean?

Well, he loved me. You probably had a curse on him. Well, he was, no, he was, much like my current pet, he was very into toxically performing his gender. I see. But, you know, R.I.P. thep the cat sure we tried to give him a name but he he was just he was too free the cat um my roommate has a black cat yeah right now so positive representation of black cats in movies and this movie does it so yes oh i'd say it's pretty neutral the cat isn't as much of a character as it should be it doesn't

speak like salem and that was actually a really stupid creative decision why wasn't the cat a puppet talking why wasn't the frog a puppet erasure alfred mulina should have played the frog i was just a grown man in a frog suit. Like, I just found out today that Paddington on ice. I saw. I'm very excited for you. Well, it's in London. Go back. I can't afford that.

I know you have sludge costs. I there. The Anastasia is happening near us for the next couple of weeks. On ice or just regular? Wish on ice. Just on regular. But still pretty cool. Talk to me when it's on a slippery surface. us for the next couple of weeks on ice or just regular wish on ice just on regular but still pretty cool talk to me when it's on a slippery surface i saw anastasia on ice as a kid i remember

you the wig the rasputin beard kept flying oh it was great i love ice shows okay all right let's do itania again well that's practical magic everyone yes uh this was so fun yeah so if you like the style of this episode you'll love our matrion yeah this is literally the matrion is horizontal the main feet is vertical and that's just kind of the difference yeah exactly um yeah thank you so much for uh for oh wait we have to do a bunch of stuff i forgot how our show i was literally looking at prices for tickets on anastasia wait a second hey jamie yes does this movie pass the bechdel test yes it does it does. It does. It does. Pretty handily. A lot between a lot of different characters. Yeah.

There's sometimes like, and again, like we are always sort of like movie to movie in terms of the sub context being about a man. Because a lot of times they're talking about how to cover up a murder. Sure. Of a man. But I'm like the murder of a man passes the Bechdel test. Right? Yes.

Inherently, yes. Inherently, yes. but i'm like the murder of a man who passes the back to this right yes inherently yes inherently yes but even so there i mean before the the man enters the picture but also like it's like yeah we did cast that spell on you so that you'd fall in love with the fruit vendor i just don't yeah but there's still there are there are lots of conversations that pass in fact um i don't know if two men talk to each other in this entire movie. Oh, that's a good question. I can't think of an example of it happening. And if so, it's how we normally see the movie Pass the Bechdel Test, where it's very kind of inconsequential and in passing.

For sure. So there you goddamn go. Wowie. Wowie, we rule. So we've got our nipple scale, of course. Zero to five nipples based on its representation of women i feel like this one probably gets i'm tempted to give it a three maybe even a three and a half obviously it gets some nipples docked for it being guilty of only featuring cishet white women

yes yes so there's that issue that it's uh which is the issue of this era into today but this movie is like especially given the subject matter um and the tendency of this genre to completely exclude anyone that isn't a straight hot white lady yes um yeah right um i do enjoy a lot of things about the movie though uh again that it is largely about women supporting women um they are they do have to support each other about things relating to men but that i mean that the scene at the end with the coven coming together all the women who had previously been like witch witch you're a bitch and they're like actually i wanted to see the inside of your really cool house so i'll come over and help help you sweep out the dust of this shitty man um so yeah maybe i'll give it i'll i'll split the diff i'll give it a 3.25

i like that thank you and i'll give uh one nip to sandy b i'll give one nip to Nikki K uh huh and my other 1.25 nips I will give to the little black kitty who we see first as a kitten and then we see as an adult cat and I don't know if we ever learn its name

but it's super cute yay so I'm gonna go i think it is the same thing where three feels too low three by five feels too high i'm gonna follow your lead thank you my sister witch um and go 3.25 i think for its time it gets kind of a surprising amount right i like the relationships between women in this movie i like the um trust and support even when it comes to murder um yeah and and that you see even though we've discussed in terms of hollywood we don't see a lot of different types of women physically but but personality wise there is a lot of different approaches to life

and no one is really except with the kind of subtle things towards Nicole Kidman's character they're generally treated with respect even though they're making very different life and lifestyle choices which is really fun I again think that the stuff with the abusive relationship was done more right than you would expect a 1998 kind of campy movie to do. And it's a fun watch. The lime and the coconut scene. I say cut Aiden Quinn and put the lime and the coconut scene in it twice. Yeah, it's a fun movie.

And I, you know, everyone should watch it if they haven't seen it i'll do 3.25 and i'll give one to sandy one to nicky one to evan rachel wood and a 0.25 to the froggy who should have been alfred molina who should have been alfred molina but alfred was called and he was like i don't want to take apart from a frog and we're like he's a hero what was he doing in 98 i wonder i thank you for i was like it would be too much thank you for caring uh i i don't know let's see let's say alfred molina he's right now he's probably like how am I going to promote Frozen 2? He's coming off of that Boogie Nights heat. Oh, sure.

He could have been filming for either Magnolia or Dudley Do-Right. Two totally identical movies. Anyways. Yeah, that's the episode on Practical Magic, everyone. Damn right it is. Thanks for listening. We'll just go straight to our plugs, which are, again, you liked the loose, silly style of this episode? Then you'll love our Matreons.

So subscribe. It's $5 a month, two bonus episodes every month. And you can do that by going to patreon.com slash pectocast. And we're going to be doing another Just the Two of Us episode episode soon to celebrate our three year anniversary as a goddamn show yeah it's coming on up uh so if you're a longtime listener subscribe to the matron we and if you want a merch we've got merch at our t public store t public.com slash the Bechtel cast uh holidays coming up. And check us out on all the social medias. We love you very much. And we're going to be in Denver.

Oh yes. We're going to be in Denver. So if you live in Denver, come to our co-headlining standup shows that Jamie and I are doing on November 16th at Bar Max. We also have a live Bechdel cast show on the 17th covering the santa claus which is brave of us extremely brave and our special guest for that is grace thomas um so all the tickets for all of those shows are on our website bechtelcast.com click on the live tab and all the links

will be there so if you live in denver or you live close by come see us so we'll see you soon and we'll talk to you soon happy halloween bye bye daphne caruana galicia was a maltese investigative journalist who on october 16th 2017 was assassinated crooks everywhere unearths the plot to murder a one-woman Wikileaks. She exposed the culture of crime and corruption that were turning her beloved country

into a mafia state. Listen to Crooks Everywhere on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, everybody. This is Matt Rogers. And Bowen Yang. We've got some exciting news for you.

You know we're always bringing you the best guests, right? Well, this week we're taking it to the next level. The one, the only, Katherine Hahn is joining us on Lost Culture East. That's right. The queen of comedy herself. Get ready for a conversation that's as hilarious as it is insightful. Tune in for all the laughs, the stories, and of course, the queen of comedy herself. Get ready for a conversation that's as hilarious as it is insightful. Tune in for all the laughs, the stories, and of course, the culture.

Don't miss Katherine Hahn on Las Culturistas. Listen to Las Culturistas on Will Ferrell's Big Money Players Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm Gianna Pradenti. And I'm Jermaine Jackson-Gadsden. We're the hosts of Let's Talk Offline from LinkedIn News and iHeart Podcasts. There's a lot to figure out when you're just starting your career. That's where we come in. Think of us as your work besties you can turn to for advice.

And if we don't know the answer, we bring in people who do, like negotiation expert Maury Tahiripour. If you start thinking about negotiations as just a conversation, then I think it sort of eases us a little bit. Listen to Let's Talk Offline on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.