The Bechdel Cast - Pulp Fiction with Jake Weisman

Episode Date: January 11, 2018

And we will strike down up thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who make movies that treat women poorly. Special guest Jake Weisman joins us to discuss Pulp Fiction! (This episode contains spoilers)For Bechdel bonuses, sign up for our Patreon at patreon.com/bechdelcast. Follow @weismanjake on Twitter! While you're there, you should also follow @BechdelCast, @caitlindurante and @hamburgerphone  Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Daphne Caruana Galizia was a Maltese investigative journalist who on October 16th 2017 was assassinated. Crooks Everywhere unearthed the plot to murder a one-woman WikiLeaks. She exposed the culture of crime and corruption that were turning her beloved country into a mafia state. Listen to Crooks Everywhere on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Kay hasn't heard from her sister in seven years. I have a proposal for you. Come up here and document my project. All you need to do is record everything like you always do. What was that?

That was live audio of a woman's nightmare. Can Kay trust her sister or is history repeating itself? There's nothing dangerous about what you're doing. They're just dreams. Dream Sequence is a new horror thriller

from Blumhouse Television, iHeartRadio, and Realm. Listen to Dream Sequence on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. How do you feel

about biscuits? Hi, I'm Akilah Hughes, and I'm so excited about my new podcast, Rebel Spirit, or wherever you get your podcasts. even need it's right here in black and white and prints it's bigger than a flag or mascot listen to rebel spirit on the iheart radio app apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts on the bechdel cast the questions asked if movies have women in them are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands or do they have individualism The patriarchy's effing vast. Start changing it with the Bechdel cast. Hello, welcome to the Bechdel cast. My name's Jamie. My name's Caitlin. And this is our podcast where we talk about women in the movies.

Yeah, that is exactly what it is. And it's inspired by the Bechdel test. Right. If you're not familiar with that, it's a test. Get a life. Yeah, throw yourself into a river. Walking in traffic. Get a life. Yeah, throw yourself into a river. Walk in the traffic. Or you can just learn from us because we're about to tell you that it's a test that you apply to movies that requires that there are two female characters. They speak to each other.

They have names and their conversation cannot be about a man. Do you want to do a demo really quick? I'd love to. Okay, so here's an example of something that went past the Bechdel test. Caitlin, do you think that Meryl Streep is happy? Jamie, what is happiness? You know, who am I to say whether or not Meryl Streep is happy? Meryl who?

What did I say? You said Meryl who? What did I say? Street. Meryl Street. So that's an example of past the Bechdel test because we didn't talk about a man. We talked about esteemed actress Meryl Street. But what if Meryl Street is a man and I fucked it up? No, it's wrong. Well, I know Meryl Streep is a woman. Meryl Street. We don woman, but Meryl Street.

We don't know how they identify. Right. Right. We don't want to put Meryl Street in the box. I wonder if Meryl Street has seen Doubt. When are we going to do a Doubt episode? Soon. Okay.

Soon. Okay. Anyway, so yeah, let's pretend that Meryl Street is a woman and that conversation definitely passed the Bechdel test. I've got, and that conversation definitely passed the Bechdel test. I'm about to break the Bechdel test. I've got a Mike's Harder lemonade in blood orange today. Wow. Yeah, it tastes like Tang with trash in it.

It's good, though. It's good. Hey, do you want to have an episode? I'd love to. Let's have an episode. Okay, let's introduce our guest. He is a co-creator and co-star of the upcoming show Corporate on Comedy Central. It's so good. You can watch the first four episodes now.

Wow. Yeah. It's Jake Wiseman. Hey. Hi. Wow. What's up? Oh, not too much.

How about you? Loving the Meryl Streep stuff. I know. That was a real giggle. Working out a street fit. Had to stifle some giggles there. We had a stifle. Yeah.

A live stifle. If you're out there, Meryl Streep, find me on Twitter. Let's be friends. We'll send you something. We don't have any merchandise. We'll send you something. It doesn't matter. We gotta get merch.

I still have my hamster's corpse in the freezer. I'll send you that. Does anyone want that? Yeah. I've been, I've actually been struggling with's corpse in the freezer. I'll send you that. Does anyone want that? Yeah, I've actually been struggling with what to do with it. How often do you touch it? Once a day, just to check it. But it's in a bag, right? It's in a ball in a bag in the freezer.

Wait, what do you mean in a ball? Like a hamster ball. Oh, it's in a ball in a bag. In a bag so that my roommates don't see that there's a hamster corpse in the freezer. Do they listen to this podcast? No. Okay. No.

Okay, yeah. They certainly don't. So now I have to decide. I'm torn between taxidermy and Hollywood Forever Cemetery, and I've been putting it off for almost three weeks now. Wow. And I don't know how long you can keep a corpse in your freezer. Well, from experience, I'd say up to, just kidding, I don't know. long you can keep a corpse in your freezer. Well, from experience, I'd say up to.

Just kidding. I don't know. I'm not a murderer. No, I was really on board for taxidermy, but then now I don't want my hamster's passing to be a joke. I loved her. I kind of want to just bury her next to Zsa Zsa Gabor like my original plan was. So wait, are you going to pay to bury her? Are you just going to go in there and just fucking do it?

Yeah, I just need to find someone to go with me and I'll bring like a spoon and then just bury her somewhere. I'll go. Yeah. Okay, come with. All right.

That'll be so fun. I think I'm busy, but it sounds great. They're unbelievable. No time specified. Okay, fine. So what are we, what's the podcast?

We're talking today about Pulp Fiction. This is, wait, this is the second Tarantino film we've done, right? What was the first one you did? We did Kill Bill. That was our first episode ever. Oh, okay. Yeah. All right.

Well, a woman is the lead of that. Yes. Yes. So this is different. This is a little bit different. Tell us when you first saw this or what your history with this movie is. I think this movie came out in 94, if I believe. And so I would have been 11.

I do remember specifically when it came out, it was all the rage. It was a phenomenon. I remember wanting to see it so badly and just pestering my dad to see it. And he had already seen it. It was everyone I was talking about how great it was. And he's like, we're going to the movies, but we can't see Pulp Fiction. You're too young to see it. We're going to see Nobody's Fool instead.

Now, Nobody's Fool instead. Now Nobody's Fool is a film starring Paul Newman and Melanie Griffith and I've seen it and it actually is a good movie but I was such a brat. I was an 11 year old prick and I was like

no it's not fair you're not going to let me see Pulp Fiction I'm adult enough and I remember he took me to the movies like come on we're going to the movies

and I was in the back seat just whining and we got to the window and one of the best moments of my life I remember vividly he goes two for Pulp Fiction and I was in the backseat just whining and we got to the window and one of the best moments of my life I remember vividly he goes two for Pulp Fiction and I was like oh my god amazing long play now here's the thing I was definitely too young to see it and he made a mistake uh he's a bad dad yeah and that's why I'm so fucked up but it was cool to see it because it was so like it was such a incendiary movie. It changed filmmaking.

It changed everything. So that was my like, I do remember that moment. And I've seen it, I think, a hundred times. I mean, everyone's seen it a million times. It's just always on. It's always talked about. It's like a cultural touchstone. Everyone's been trying to rip it off ever since.

There's like 50 Pulp Fiction posters in any given college dorm building. And one of the issues with like a movie like that movie like that, let's say you love it. If you love a movie and it changes everything, the problem though is that every movie for the next 20 years is a knockoff of that movie and it sucks. So that's like the real problem with changing the game is just like no one else can do it, but they're going to do it. And so that's annoying. Was that your first rated R movie? I don't think so. I kind of grew up fast.

Well, okay. Charlotte's Web. I was like six. And I've seen everything. I only watch R. I've only seen R's. It's wild that you probably saw The Lion King and Pulp Fiction the same year. Honestly, yeah.

I think I saw, what was the Space Jam around that time? Yeah. I mean, Pulp Fiction, it's brutal. Like, in re-watching it last night, just for this podcast, I was like, oh, this is insane. This should be X, I think. Like, this is like a crazy thing. How could you explain this to anyone? Well, the thing is, I feel like if a movie is rated, like-17 or whatever, is that what you mean by like an X rating?

Yeah, I'm so old I call it X. It still sounds cooler. Well, there's like... Bring back X. I feel like a lot of X rated movies are rated that way because there's some sort of... There's like graphic sex, but usually not like heterosex. Sure. A lot of. And just the idea that sex is like more upsetting than violence is just like, what are we talking about?

There were on this viewing because I haven't seen this movie in a couple of years. There were entire large disturbing sections of this movie that I had totally forgotten about. I had completely forgotten about the extended rape plot. Yeah. With Marcellus Wallace. Completely forgotten about it. Yeah. That was jarring. I was fully awake. Speaking of this movie getting ripped off, may I tell you about a student film

that I made that basically ripped off of Pulp Fiction? Yes, please. It's a roughly seven minute short called Exchange. It centers around a $20 bill that has like an X marker, like someone wrote an X with marker on the $20 bill. And it follows among all these different characters who each have a certain vice. Like the one guy is like a drug addict. They like roll it up and they like use the $20 bill to snort cocaine.

Another one is like a gambling person or like a cheater. I forget. Is it all the same $20 bill? Yes. Yeah. But it connects all these characters and things like happen out of chronological order. And I was just like,

I'm so fucking brilliant, you guys, for making this stupid. Yeah, I have not seen it in many years. I would imagine it does not hold up. Is it somewhere? Is it on Blu-ray? Can we find it? Can we find it?

The director's cut is available for purchase on Amazon. No, I have not put it on YouTube or anything like that. I'm far too embarrassed for that. God, there's so much embarrassing stuff just buried out there. I have an e-book somewhere out there. It sucks that the only way to do it now is to just be so horrible in public and then you maybe get a chance 10 years later to do something good like that's the only way to do anything is to be horrible but but for some reason need the validation and not care too much about the shame in an effort to one day know

what you're doing but it's like horrible and all your horribleness is fully archived for the world to find when you get good at something right yeah, I think also it's weird because I think a large part of, especially with filmmakers, there's this myth around a lot of male filmmakers like Kubrick and stuff where it's like, they're perfect. That's not true. They just didn't have YouTube. So they weren't like uploading the shitty fucking student films they did. They were burning the negatives of the stuff that sucked

and then only putting up the stuff that worked you know what i mean and now there's less of a myth it's a lot of just like yeah just be shitty and figure it out eventually like that's what it is wouldn't it be amazing if we had the option in like a filmography thing for something to be parentheses lost because that's like yeah that's like the first couple years of so many famous directors they're like oh we don't we don't know yeah it's gone it's like oh it probably was's like the first couple of years of so many famous directors. They're like, oh, we don't, we don't know. Yeah. It's gone. It's like, oh, it probably was just bad and someone disposed of it.

Yeah. If only that were an option. Well, I'd definitely take down all my old standup videos of like really dumb shit I've said and. Fully private. They're nowhere to be found. Anyway, so. Let's talk about Pulp Fiction. Let's do it.

Jamie, you've seen this movie once before. What's your history with it? I've seen this movie. I think this was maybe my third time do it. Jamie, you've seen this movie once before. What's your history with it? I've seen this movie. I think this was maybe my third time seeing it. I don't know. I mean, I'm late to every movie. I've seen Doubt 500 times and every other movie once. I saw this movie in, I want to say maybe late high school with some friends and everyone thought it was so fucking cool.

And then I saw it again in college same deal and i saw it last night and this is like i like this movie i don't have any particular attachment to it but i like it sure yeah yeah i saw it for the first time i think in high school as well i remember going to the video store and being like there are certain movies that i just need to see because i was like'm going to be a film major. I have to have seen these movies. So I went and I rented Fargo, Pulp Fiction, and The Princess Bride, three movies that I had never seen before.

And I watched them all. I was like, wow. It's a good mix. Yeah, I was like, they were right. These movies are pretty good. Who's they? You know they. It was a listicle on theguardian.com.

There was one point where, yeah, I would just like look up lists that people I had heard of had like made of things that they liked. I'm like, well, I'll just go look at that and then spiral out from there, which is like a misguided but sort of effective way when you're very young to go about it. I think it's a great way to do it. Yeah. I think it's like the only I feel like everything I read or watch is just interviews with people who make stuff. They're like, also do that. Yeah. Like that's kind of it. Like, I don't really know how else to do it. Cause I don't trust. I think sometimes when you take opinions from good friends, there's a real danger there. Cause a lot of people that are smart, have terrible taste. Like they're just not, not smart about entertainment. And you're like,

once you know what they like, like I'm having a personal problem with people liking Three Billboards Outside Ebbing, Missouri. Oh, I've seen how much trouble you've been in. And it's so horrible and I'm losing friendships. And it's like I don't want to know what friends like. I just want to know what the cool people like. And then at least I won't be hurt when we disagree. Right. Sure.

Feel free to go on your Three Billboards tirade at any point. We can talk about that at some point for sure. Any point. We can talk about that at some point for sure. Any point. Yeah, I mean, my whole formative years were writing down anything that was mentioned in the series of Unfortunate Events books and then just going to locate them. But it was actually very helpful. And I found out a lot of stuff that I like and know about now because of those little books.

All right. That's good. How cute. I like those better than Pulp Fiction. Okay, sure. I'm gonna go home. How about I do a recap of Pulp Fiction. Caitlin's recap.

So this is a movie in which the events do not happen in chronological order. I'm sorry. This thing happens and then this thing happens but then we flash. It's a whole thing. So bear in mind. So we start out on a couple

who are in a dire and die. I cannot fucking talk to him. They're in a die hard. Meryl Streep is on Diner Street. So the movie Diner. So they're in a diner

and they announce this is a robbery. Well, then we cut to John Travolta. Amazing reenactment. Thank you so much. Hey,

guys. Actually, this is a robbery. Actually a robbery. I know you thought we were just like dancing a polka, but the guns are real

and we want your money. We're still gonna pay for the meal, but. Okay, so then we cut to John Travolta and Samuel L. Jackson, and they're talking about royales with cheese. They're chatting it up. They're having a conversation. Chatty Cathy's for sure.

Yeah. They're like, wow, six minutes of dialogue equals revolutionary. Pretty amazing stuff. So they go to these people's apartment on behalf of their boss, Marcellus Wallace, who is some sort of organized crime mobster type of dude. He's a bad element. Right. And they're there to collect a briefcase that's full of light bulbs? We don't know. It's a MacGuffin.

And they are trying to get the briefcase from these people who have totally fucked over. Marcellus Wallace. And then John Travolta and Samuel L. Jackson, whose character's names are Vincent Vega and Jules Winfield? Winfield. Win Street. Jules Street. They shoot them up. And then we meet Butch, played by Bruce Willis.

He's a boxer. We meet Marcellus Wallace, and he's like, he basically gives him money to fix a fight. And then, this is a fun scene because Vincent Vega and Jules Winfield slash Winstreet show up in different clothes than we saw them in before, and we're like, what is this all about?

Like, wait, is this perhaps non-linear? Oh my god. Hold the phone. Then, Vincent Vega goes and buys heroin from Eric Stoltz. Then he takes me, Wallace. We've all been there. We've all been in dire straits from Eric Stoltz.

That part was just a documentary. It's just bad writing. Yeah, he got let go of Back to the Future. He was the original dude so he needed to peddle heroin. He was supposed to be

Marty McFly and they shot most of the movie with him and then he got recast because... What did he do? He just,

he was too serious. He sucked his own dick. He was, oh. And you just shouldn't do that. He succeeded too hard. People were threatened.

So then, Vincent Vega takes out Mia Wallace played by Uma Thurman which is Marcellus Wallace's takes out, literally takes out for fun. For fun. Not kills.

Not in a murderer way. Right. They go out dancing. They go to dinner. It's a great time. They go back to her house. She finds the heroin that he had bought in his pocket. She starts it thinking it is cocaine.

Then she ODs and he has to go deal with that. They go back to Eric Stoltz's house and she gets an adrenaline shot. Then we cut to young Butch receiving his dad's... Young Butch, baby, that's my SoundCloud rapper name. He receives his dad's watch

from Christopher Walken. He's like, your dad hid this up his asshole for five years and now I'm giving it to you. Which is a great plot point. The whole time we were watching Chris Walken in this movie,

which you first of all made fun of me for calling him Chris Walken. Yeah. Chrissy. He actually goes by Christy. Is he Chris Walken down the street?

Christy. Yeah. The Merrill Street? Oh, okay. I was like, wait, where are we connecting it? I was just thinking about his scene in Geely

the whole time I was watching his scene. How many movies is Christopher walking in for exactly one scene? Two. Geely and Pulp Fiction. Geely, don't,

I keep believing what Jake tells me. He's actually the only two movies he's ever been in. He's never been in any other movies. Try to think of another one. When you tell me things, I believe it. He's never been in any other movies. Try to think of another one. When you tell me things I believe it.

It's not good. It's bad. Go back and re-watch Christopher Walken's scene in Julie. Please don't. He doesn't know. Never watch Julie.

He has no idea he's in the movie. He thinks he's just visiting. They're just like, hey, do you want to just talk to Ben Affleck for like four minutes? And he does.

He's holding a cup from Crafty. He's holding a cup with a pattern on it. And he's just in a suit. And it's like he thinks he's visiting. He doesn't know. He's never heard of that movie before. No one has. What happened to Natalie Wood, Christopher Walken?

Tell us. I know, right? He knows. He definitely knows. He for sure knows. Anyway, what's happening in the movie? So then we flash forward to Adult Butch, which is my rapper name. We tore it together.

Old Butch is a pretty good name. Old Butch closes out the show. Old Butch. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I have an uncle. Wait, I've talked about, every time I talk about my Uncle Butch on the show, you edit it out.

Because he's a criminal. He's a con artist. Shout out to my con artist Uncle Butch. Okay, so then in the next scene we flash forward to adult Butch and it's right after his boxing match and he has not fixed the match like he promised he would

he instead kills his opponent and he's fine with it and he runs away and he gets in this cab where this woman's like tell me what it's like to kill a man to kill a man Esmeralda right? that's her name? yeah

feminist icon Esmeralda because all she wants to all she cares about is what it's like to kill men. Yeah. And I am on board. And it's like, yeah, go for it. Find out. Just turn back and snap Bruce's neck.

Right. Figure it out. So then Butch goes to his girlfriend, Sabine, and they're ready to run away. But she's like, fuck, I forgot your watch. And he's like, you stupid bitch. How could you forget my father's watch? He flips out. He flips a table. He's like, fuck, I forgot your watch. And he's like, you stupid bitch. How could you forget my father's watch? He flips out. He flips a table.

He's like, you forgot the ass watch. And he's mad. So he goes back to his apartment. But Vincent Vega is there ready to kill him. And he finds his gun and he shoots Vincent. And Vincent is dead now. And we're like, wait a second. Is this linear?

Are we going to see this guy again or what? I don't know. Yeah. Then Butch runs into Marcellus Wallace, who he had just fucked over for not fixing the fight. And then they have this like whole fight where they like, he like runs Marcellus over with a car. They end up in a pawn shop.

Kathy Griffin is, did you see the Kathy Griffin cameo? No. I'm sorry, but when see the Kathy Griffin cameo? No. I'm sorry, but when Marcellus Wallace wakes up and all the people are there with him, the person who talks to him is Kathy Griffin. Oh, really? Yeah, the red-haired, curly-haired lady.

She's like, I can help you make him depart. She's like, it was that guy. He was crazy. It was over there. I'll testify for you. That was Kathy Griffin. That's Kathy Griffin. Wow.

Wow. It's fun. I'm altered. That's exciting. Sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt, but that's a very important thing oh i gotta find that screenshot post haste so they end up in a pawn shop uh butch and marcellus and they're like scuffling and the pawn shop owner's like hang on a minute let me take you down to this sex dungeon sorry we were just looking at a screencap. That's quite all right. I was just talking about a sex dungeon. It actually looks great. So this cop shows up. He gets a gimp out of a cage and they're like,

okay, time for me to rape you. And then they take... That's my new rage. Unbelievable. that's my new rage unbelievable when you said that I saw it as time then the number four me the number two

rape you that's how I saw it in my head that was a fully green text it's a weird synesthesia that's the classic green text

not to make light of rape. Okay, so Butch and Marcellus get all tied up. Marcellus gets raped by this horrible rapist cop. And then Butch is like, actually, I'm going to fight my way out of this. So he undoes his bondage. He has a sword, does he not? Yeah, he goes up because he's about to, he punches the gimp.

He runs away and he's like, wait a minute. I can't just let Marcellus suffer this horrible fate. So he gets a sword from the pawn shop, goes back downstairs, slices people up. Fights for his boy. The cop gets his dick shot off in my favorite scene in the movie. And then Marcellus and But like we're cool then we cut to vincent and jules at the apartment that we saw them at before whoa this isn't hold the phone in chronological is this story told in order or what it sure isn't this isn't what i'm used to so right uh another person

who we had not seen before comes out shoots at at them, but misses. And then Jules has this like religious experience where he's like, wow, what a miracle. I'm going to leave this life of organized crime and just like be a nice boy. And then they take this guy Marvin with them. I'm going to leave this life of organized crime and be a nice boy. My name is Jules. Jules. So they take this guy Marvin with him. They're in the car. What if we made every

person who'd committed a crime say in a court of law I'm going to be a nice boy now. I know I messed up. But I'm going to be a nice boy now. Or girl. Or non-binary person, you know? Criminals come in all shapes and sizes.

No, everyone has to say nice boy. Okay, so they take this guy Marvin who was at the apartment with them, because I guess they're all pals, and then Vincent accidentally blows his head off with his gun. So then they have to go to this guy Jimmy's house, played by our good friend Quentin Tarantino. Feminist icon Quentin Tarantino. And then they call this guy Winston Wolf, Harvey Keitel. And they're like, help us clean this up.

And they're like covered in blood from cleaning out all the crap out of the car. Then they have to put on these different clothes. Whoa, those are the clothes we saw them in in a scene earlier in the movie. What? And then Jules and Vincent go to a diner for breakfast. The same one that we saw the couple in at the very beginning of the movie. Have we come full circle or something? We have. And then they're in the middle of the robbery. And then basically Jules is like, don't take this briefcase it does not belong to you it's for my boss he loves light bulbs and then he's just like don't be be a nice boy basically he's like be a nice boy don't be a robber be a nice boy bye and that's the end of the movie

cut to credits so that is the story good recap i think you did a great job good recap thank you we did it you did it we all did it it was a group effort now now now now now that we have that out of the way what shall we discuss well we shall discuss the representation and portrayal of women well given that i apparently forgot large swaths of this movie, there are a lot of female characters in this movie. There are. There's a lot to, yeah,

there's a lot to talk about. None of them are, apart from Mia Wallace, I would argue, none of them are main characters. I would say most of them are more secondary or even tertiary. Agreed.

So hardly any of them have any sort of influence in the story. In fact, I was thinking have any sort of influence in the story. In fact, I was thinking about how crucial women are to the story and what the female characters do to contribute to the story and influence the direction that the story takes. Because in a movie like this, where there's an ensemble cast, it's really sort of hard to discern who is the protagonist because there's these little vignettes and they're all connected. I would argue no one main character. I would agree. Okay. So I think then it is safe to assume that any character in the movie could do something

that would significantly impact the story. However, of the female characters we see, none of them really do it in a way that moves the story forward. Or if they do, it's a mistake they've made that the men have to correct for example so we've got mia wallace accidentally snorting the heroin thinking it's cocaine and vincent has to take her to the his drug dealer to get the shot of adrenaline so she doesn't od and die right in other words she makes a mistake that a man has to fix so that actually uh watching it this time through was kind of because i knew the basic plot points i knew that she did that eventually but the scenes leading up to that she is so in control and she's so active and then kind of at that moment when she makes

this mistake she is like kind of damseled right away and um all the action she's taken is sort of totally backpedaled on and she i mean yeah women are mostly reacting in this story they're not pushing action what's interesting about that because i was i've never watched it from this perspective because it's a movie based in just entertainment like it's clear quentin tarantino doesn't give a shit about issues right he's just like he's trying to entertain you and that's part of the problem with some of his movies or maybe all of them. He's an homage boy. What was interesting

about the Mia Wallace thing, I was thinking about it and I was like, oh, well, she's introduced as Marcellus' wife. So that's like how she's introduced

as a wife, right? But she is such a bold, strong character. Her haircut is just cool as shit. She's very like, you know, she's leading the conversation.

She like tells him to, as you were saying, Jamie, like she tells him like, you think of something to say. You know shit she's very like you know she's leading the conversation she like tells him to as you were saying jamie like she tells him like you think of something to say you know she's very active and then she's like i want to dance let's dance and also when when vincent comes into her place she's like do this do that you know what i mean she's bossing him around right she's picked the restaurant she's made the reservation like she's she orders a five dollar shake yeah yeah but i will say the thing about the heroin is it is a man fixing the mistake. But also she takes his drugs. She like takes what's not hers, which is active. I mean, I don't know what that means necessarily.

But she does sort of like move it forward with like it wasn't necessarily a bad choice. It was just like a genuine mistake because the powder is white right right yeah i don't know the intricacies of the bechdel test so i i will learn a lot as we speak but i was but i guess it is him cleaning up that mess but it felt that felt the most okay with the female character because she at the end still i feel like she still had the ability to like fuck vincent over if she told Marcellus. But then she was like, but then she would die, basically, if she told him. Right.

Which he didn't totally believe. There's, like, that exchange they have after she is revived. And, you know, she's like, well, I'm not going to tell him because I'd be fucked over, too. And he's like, well, you wouldn't be as fucked over as I would. But she very well may be because at this point we haven't met Marcellus. We don't know what kind of person he is. So what I was curious about there was what do you think would have happened to her? That she did the drugs?

Like that was the problem? That she's a drug addict and he wouldn't like that? I mean, I got the impression that he probably knew that she was using drugs. I mean, they're into all sorts of, you know, like illicit behaviors. Right. But for me, my immediate instinct, and it's not really followed up on, but I thought it was because she did it with a man. And, like, there was, like, some sort of implied intimacy.

He paid Vincent to take her out and show her a good time, basically. And then he, like, quote-unquote fucked up, even though it was kind of out of both of their control right so it yeah it was sort of like we can presume that like that marcellus was like take care of her make sure she's safe while i'm gone because she needs looked after because you're a man and she's a woman and she needs protection but which is why he's doing that in the first place right right right but well yeah so the way Mia Wallace is introduced, like you said, Jules and Vincent are talking about her. And they have that whole conversation about this guy being thrown out of a window because he gave her a foot massage.

So, like, we hear about this character. I think the point of the conversation is to maybe show how much of a force to be reckoned with Marcellus Wallace is. I think definitely more, like, because she's the possession that no one can fuck with. Which basically just objectifies her. Well, definitely, she's introduced as the wife. Right, right, right, yeah. But I think to be the wife of this man, Marcellus, and Marcellus is a very intense character.

He's, like, you know, immediately legendary. Because also, like, the way he's introduced, it's not even on him. You don't even see him. The way he's like, you know, immediately legendary. Because also like the way he's introduced, it's not even on him. You don't even see him. The way he's introduced, you hear his voice, you're just looking at Bruce Willis. The back of his head.

And in the back of his head, it's like the, what, the Mark of the Beast or something like that? Is that what the band-aid is? Oh. I always thought that's what it was because it's connected to like

the thing that was in the suitcase, which I feel like is a human soul or something. But I think the band-aid is supposed to be, that's where you, like the devil enters or some bullshit like that. There's some reason why there's a band-aid there. Okay, I didn't know anything about that sort of mythology.

But he's this really intense character, so you're like, yeah, and if you're a drug underlord, underlord or overlord? Both sound sinister. Because it's both are correct, because it's like the underworld, but you're an overlord. The overlord of the underworld?

Yeah, what is the over-under-under? But yeah, it's interesting because like that woman is never going to be, if it's a male like drug peddler, it's probably not going to be like, like he's going to be stronger than the female character most of the time, right? Like, so she's like a kept woman to some degree. Right, but I mean I think that that's like an interesting writing choice that's made in this movie and again it's hard to tell, especially with like early Quentin Tarantino, how

intentionally it's actually done but it's like we do first hear about Mia Wallace as basically the property of Marcella's that you do not fuck with with but then we meet her and we do learn more about her background we learned that she was an actress we learned there's more depth to her and she's very open and she takes control of the situation and that was kind of like a fun or interesting inversion of getting to know a character that is introduced

to us as property right but then that well the scene i want to talk about that that really bugged me when we were watching it was uh when she does overdose and then john travolta brings her to eric stoltz's house where there are i oh god i don't know what their names are but they have names oh jody and trudy that scene bugged me because i was like in any, in any realistic world, the two women in that scene would have resolved that problem and way faster than John Travolta and Eric Stoltz would have. And watching them sidelined in that scene frustrated me. And they were intentionally sidelined for whatever reason, but they are at least Eric Stoltz's,'s i think girlfriend in that scene was his wife his

wife okay that's an archette right yes she is in the background of the entire scene watching it happen very passively and i don't know like that she's sort of well she's like kind of screaming at eric stoltz's character she's sort of depicted as a shrew. Like, why did you bring her here? Like, very just, like, nagging and screaming and combative and just difficult to deal with. And then her friend, Trudy, is, like, for sure very passive to the point where she's literally just sitting on the couch. Yeah, like...

She's, like, smoking a bunk through the entire scene. There is... I thought... I did think that, like, watching it this time, like, because that wasn't the first time Rosanna Arquette's in the movie. She's in it the first time he goes there to buy the heroin. Yes. And she is like she's the wife. And then for no real reason, Eric Stoltz is just kind of a piece of shit to her.

You know what I mean? Like he's just kind of like, fuck you. There was a really cool moment, though, in the scene you were just talking about when they stab Mia Wallace's heart with adrenaline where it made me laugh so hard this time where just before like John Travolta's holding up the adrenaline, Eric Stoltz's counting to three and there's a shot of Rosanna Arquette's face where she's like almost like sexually interested

in the moment. You know what I mean? She's like, hmm. And that was cool because I was like, that's an active choice for her to just be like a fucking crazy pervert kind of. Very into it, yeah. And I did enjoy that part where I was like, okay, at active choice for her to just be like a fucking crazy pervert kind of. Very into it, yeah.

And I did enjoy that part. Okay. Where I was like, okay, at least she's like a sicko. You know what I mean? I didn't even notice that? Yeah. It's really funny. It made me, I was watching with a female friend and we both laughed really hard about it. It was just like, it was just like kind of random, but funny.

Yeah. Just like, I'm going to see some shit right now. Also in Eric Stoltz andilton rosanna arquette's house there's a board game called chauvinist pigs really in the back of a shot there were a lot of board games there there's a lot and yeah it's funny yeah there when he's looking for the uh for the black medical book that he's screaming about uh for a good portion of that scene there he walks past this board game called chauvinist pigs didn't notice that either again it's like well probably not an intentional choice but i enjoyed it sure um so i want to go back to mia wallace so she's initially framed as like this person who's talked

about but not seen as like oh the property of this bad guy who's scary and you don't want to fuck with her touch her feet because he'll throw you out of a window sort of thing and then we do meet her and like you said she's kind, she's got a lot of autonomy. She's kind of bossing him around, like, go make yourself a drink. Do this, do that. Take me out. I want to dance. Making choices.

And we also see her, she has a personality unlike so many female characters we encounter in so many movies. Right. Where we can get a sense of who she is as a person. I would argue the most memorable character from that movie. where we can get a sense of who she is as a person. I would argue the most memorable character from that movie. Like I think in pop culture, she's on the poster. Yeah. And I think she's the one that I think about,

like her haircut and her eye. Like you just remember that image. I was going to say Sam Jackson, I think they're kind of tied for first. Yeah. Yeah, which is great. And when you sort of pit them against each other in terms of screen time, it's all the more impressive

because she's not in the movie a ton. It's mostly the top half that she's in. The only other time she's in the movie is when she's like in a bathing suit

just catering to her husband by the pool. You remember that? I wasn't sure if that was her or not. Yeah, you almost don't realize it's her. Right.

But she's just like the wife there. I just thought maybe that was another woman that like a side. A side Thurman. I think he loves his wife. I think he loves his wife. I got that feeling. I hope so.

Yeah, I think he does. Yeah. I don't know. He just doesn't know how to show it. He just doesn't know. He's got to learn. Well, he's an assault victim. Right.

That's true. Poor Marcellus. But the other thing I want to say about that scene in the restaurant is that Mia dispels the rumor that a guy was thrown out of a window because he touched her feet. She's like, do you really believe that? Like, that's absurd. And whether or not we, if it happened that way, because she could easily be lying and being like that. Well, that's crazy because it is crazy. But she at least stands up for herself.

I also thought one of the cool lines about that, because that scene was really interesting, where she goes, the only time he ever touched me was when he shook my hand at my wedding. Which I thought was a very, like, that was cool. That was like a very intentional choice. Because it could have been a hug. But it was shaking my hand. That was a power move. Yeah, that was great that was like a very intentional choice like because it could have been a hug yeah that was shaking that was a power move yeah that was great i don't know i mean that whole conversation she's completely in like john travolta is like in her hands entirely like she steers that conversation entirely and also like it sounds like she doesn't even know exactly

what happened the comment she makes about when men talk about things it's like a sewing circle uh-huh yeah that was like a really fun line in that particular exchange where she's you know directly taking a rude comment usually directed at women and saying it to john travolta great loved it yeah yeah yeah what she says is when you little scamps get together you're worse than a sewing circle. Love the use of the word scamps. Yeah. Sometimes scamps can be thrown in.

I'm there. Good. So then following that scene in the restaurant, they go back to her house. She invites Vincent Vega in and he is like, I got to go to the bathroom and talk myself out of trying to fuck her because that's clearly what he wants to do. That's clearly what I think he thinks she wants to do. Oh, interesting. That's how I read that was because there's that moment where they're at the door.

She's in control. It's her night. You know what I mean? And he, I think, clearly wants to sleep with her. She's portrayed as this sexual, you know, she's impressive. She's desirable. Yeah, and it's just like she's cool

and she's in charge. But I thought there's that moment where they're in the door and they look in each other's cool and like she's in charge. But I thought, you know, there's that moment where they're in the door and they look in each other's eyes and he's like is that what you call an uncomfortable silence? And she's like, I don't know what that was. You know, I don't know what you'd call that. So I feel like she's like, you're going to stick around, we're going to do this. So I think she wants the, I don't think she's going to

fuck him, but I did feel like she wants to be flirted with. You know what I mean? Like she wants that attention whenever she's not getting from Marcellus. Because why the fuck isn't he taking her out? You know what I mean? He's out of town. I still felt like, I think he felt like, I want to do this, but I obviously shouldn't. But I did feel like, I still felt like she was guiding that.

Possibly. I more interpreted it as like they were hanging out. She's all high on coke. They're drinking. And he has to be like well i have an opportunity possibly but i'm not going to act on it because that would be a betrayal of trust to my boss marcellus so he's like talking himself in the mirror for who knows how long long enough for her to od on heroin but yeah he's like but he's like you're just gonna go home and jerk off

and just go to bed and then he comes out and she has already snorted the heroin and then he has to jump to action to go save her. I interpreted that scene as she was manipulating him a little bit, a little bit for attention, but also just because she has known the whole night that he'll basically do whatever she tells him to do. Because throughout the night, she wants to compete in this dance competition. He's like, okay, we'll do it. She's like, think of something to say this dance competition he's like okay we'll do it she's like think of something to say he's like okay i'll do it so she's i think at

the beginning of that scene still fully in control and then to me that scene where where john travolta is talking to himself for 45 minutes is like him trying to convince himself that he's the one in control and he's the one who's going to make the choice like am i going to fuck her i have to decide what i'm going to do when it's sort of made clear that entire sequence that he's not the person who's in control of yeah he's kind of like a dork there yeah like in that scene he's kind of made to be a dork where she's just like that's why i thought it's interesting because he does have to save her but he's not very good at it like he kind of like he barely does it but i just thought it was such an active choice for her to steal his drugs right like this is mine and that leans into like the whole manipulative thing too of like oh well while you're like trying to

talk yourself out of thinking that you could fuck me if you wanted to which who knows she takes his stuff yeah and then the power dynamic shifts and that's I don't know, it's interesting in a story perspective. I mean, I think the main takeaway is that it's impressive that we see a female character with a personality who's sort of taken control of the situation that they're in that night where, you know, they're kind of out on the town. But she's sort of the alpha of that whole interaction. So it's just something we so rarely see that it was kind of refreshing. Yeah. And she just is so good. Like, she's just

such a good actor. It was just awesome. I mean, she's, you can't take your eyes off. What I also liked about her character was, like, it wasn't just cool.

Like, what I was thinking about this time was, like, she's a failed actor. Like, she kind of has, like, a weird personality. You know what I mean? Like, she's not,

she's cool and she, like, has her thing but she's kind of not, like, she's a failure. And she's kind of, like a weird personality. You know what I mean? Like she's not, she's cool and she like has her thing, but she's kind of not, like she's a failure. And she's kind of like some of the things she said, like she reacts a little more excitedly than most cool characters would. Like she's just kind of,

she's like a drug addict failed actor. But she was still in control. And I thought that was a really cool way to portray someone. Like I was kind of impressed by how not, like she is cool, but she's like, like I remember when she was responding about like I can't promise you that if a more stereotypical man were writing her be like I can't promise you that you know what I mean but she's like I can't promise you that like it was more like uh quirkier I thought which I thought was cool well that might just be her I don't know if that's more

the writing or more just sort of her choices as an actor. Hard to say. Man, it's great, especially now watching this movie and being like, wow, now Uma Thurman's just threatening to shoot Harvey Weinstein all the time on Instagram. It's great. I love it. This whole time I was like, she just, she threatened to shoot Harvey Weinstein. That's so cool. It is really cool.

Yeah. Yeah. Like I said, we're just so used to seeing very flat, one-dimensional female characters that we're like, it's pretty cool to be like, oh, she's got more than one dimension. And the TV show that she was in the pilot for sounds pretty fucking cool, like a show that I would want to watch. Fox Force Five. It's about five cool women being bad at it. I mean, it probably wouldn't be great, but I want to see Tarantino

make that movie. Oh, that'd be kind of cool if he went back and made Fox Force 5. And she has a sense of humor at the end of it, where after she's OD'd and nearly died, she's like, hey, let's maybe just forget about this. Want to hear that joke that I refused to tell you

before? And he's like, sure. And then she tells a dumb ketchup joke. And we all laughed. Yeah, we're teething. It's great. And she's not the only female character in this movie who we see some semblance

of personality from because I would say that Fabian has a pretty... We only see a little sliver of her in this movie. She's only in two scenes. but those scenes are so good it's in a more macro sense it sucks that her presence doesn't have more bearing on the plot and i would say that for almost every female character in this movie with the exception of mia where it's like their actual effect on the plot, like we're talking about, is not huge, but her presence in the movie is so great.

Well, so like Mia Wallace, where if you are oversimplifying things, her main contribution to the actual, maybe not the characterization of the story, but the events of the story is that she takes the drugs by accident, almost ODs, and it's a problem that a male character has to fix. Similar thing happens with Fabian? Fabian? Fabian. Street. Fabian Street. She forgets Bruce Willis' heirloom watch. Ass loom.

And has to go back and get it. and it almost gets him killed it gets him in this like crazy almost he gets raped situation yeah things escalate he had to kill two people to get out of it yeah so because of her mistake that he has to fix that's her main contribution again to the events of the story not to the characterization of the movie because she does have an interesting character who has a personality again something that we're not used to seeing in movies for a female character to have a personality but i just couldn't help but notice of the female characters who do things that influence the direction the

story takes in a significant way both of them can be boiled down to a female character making a mistake and a man having to fix it. I would also argue that the Amanda Plummer, who I believe it's Amanda Plummer, the one who is Tim Roth's wife. She kind of is bad at her thing, too. Like, I think she's not great at being a robber. You know what I mean? She kind of needs his guidance very much. In the last scene especially.

Yeah. So I was almost. She doesn't necessarily fuck up. But she's. She needs his. Like in a similar way. I would say is like needs the male counterpart's guidance to kind of. Is relying on him to fix the situation.

Because she seemed kind of like a loose cannon where she might. So such a good actor. Like I was like oh you are so funny and so good but yeah i think yeah she's a little clearly mentally ill yeah it's true there i i struggled with the with the last scene with her in the last scene in particular i gotta go pee where yeah i was like oh man of course you know of the two she's the one to fuck up or like show some sort of weakness and i do i do feel like that choice had to be intentional to some extent even if it was just like instinct on a male ranger's part

to have the female character fuck up but then there's like all these themes especially with bruce willis's character in this movie where the whole ass watch thing is all about this like it's this whole masculinity plot where he's trying to get his father's war heirloom he you know doesn't have a war to fight and that's the whole you know where it's gen x the 90s very whatever he's fighting wars in the boxing ring he's fighting his own battle right but but that like masculine heirloom is so important to him that he will cut down fucking whoever to get his dad's ass watch instead of, oh, I don't know, letting it go. Like so I don't know. I mean, all the characters in this movie are very flawed to the point where it was frustrating to see Amanda Plummer's character fuck up at the end. But I feel like I felt that

because we hadn't seen enough women on screen at all for there to be... We see male characters fuck up constantly in this movie. That's not an issue, but there's just not enough female characters with bearing on the plot that we see fuck up so that it feels equal. Right.

The really interesting thing i thought about fabian was watching at this time there's actually a bunch of things i thought that were very interesting about that relationship one was when they're hooking up she's like will you go down to me and he's like will you kiss it and she goes basically if you eat me out first so it was a real great talk about consent and it was also like she's like you make me out first. So it was a real great talk about consent. And it was also like, she's like, you make me come first, which I think is great. I thought that was really cool. Cause he's like,

he's a boxer. You know what I mean? Like he's like a meathead. So I thought that was cool. But I also thought that. Although it annoyed me that like, she was like, give me oral pleasure.

And he's like, will you kiss it? Not agreeing to what she asked, but immediately being like, well, only if you suck my dick also. And she has to be like, but immediately being like well only if you suck my dick also and she has to be like

but you first because I asked you first but like I don't know it annoyed me that he I enjoyed that exchange in general I don't know I thought that was very much

a relationship exchange I mean I understand what you're saying I mean like I get it but like I was like at least she like if that had been reversed

that would have been a huge problem whereas I thought this was at least a boxer going down on a tiny woman. I was like, okay, good. Like, good. Boxers are giving oral pleasure.

This is a step forward. The other interesting thing I thought, I was watching with a female friend and so I asked her about it. And we were talking about this. I'm very curious how you feel. When he gets mad about the watch, you know what I mean? Yes. So that was a really interesting scene, I thought. So he gets mad about the watch, you know what I mean? Yes, yeah. So that was a really interesting scene, I thought. So he gets mad.

He starts yelling. She goes in the corner of the room, right? Because he flips a table, like a knob, a lamp gets... I thought he throws a TV, right? Yeah, something happened. He throws a TV, but not at her. He throws a TV at a rage. He's a rageful boxer.

So he throws a TV. So that's like bad obviously but then what I thought was interesting this is what I asked my friend he sits on that chair and he goes you know what it's my fault I didn't accurately tell you you did your best I didn't tell you how important it was to me and like I'm sorry I just gotta go don't worry about it so he has a rage flip out he like like has some sort of aggression. You could call it violence if you want. I don't think it was directed at her necessarily, but maybe. And then he's like, I'm sorry.

And then in the car, he's like, oh, how could you not? You know what's important to me. But I thought it was interesting because their relationship was very, I thought, bizarrely charming. Because it was sort of like almost stereotypical in the way that, but there was real love there. I thought it was the most love in the whole movie in a way. And I thought my friend was like, you know what? He apologized immediately. And it was kind of interesting where he was like really aggressive and, but he clearly really loved her.

And he did apologize immediately for someone who is such such a probably like an alt-right weirdo and i thought it was and so i thought it was just interesting for him to to have him apologize immediately and i thought that was like a i don't know if it has to do with the bechdel test but it has something to do with like how her relationship should work you know what i mean you make this mistake and then you but i don't know i was curious what you guys thought thought he has a snap reaction i mean i could have done without him you know throwing a tv for sure to the point where she's so scared for her safety that she cowers into a corner and is crying seeing that seeing her default to a corner right i'm like this is maybe not the first time this has happened if she has an instinct to retreat to a corner where it's like, if that's the first time that's happening, it just didn't seem like the first time that it happened.

You're right. But then when we see him dial back, I mean, it's hard because also they're fictional. We don't know. No one truly knows. He also does flirt with Esmeralda. He does. So he's a little bit of like a brute. Well, all the men in this movie, I think that speaks to the like hyper masculinity of all the men we see in this movie.

Like there's no, I mean, except for maybe Eric Stoltz, like all the main characters are like non-sexual characters in the movie. They're just like dripping with like toxic hyper masculinity. And sure, that's what the movie's about their job they're you know all kind of you know these like bad criminal you know boxer gun slinging type of guys but it's hard for me to watch movies like that nowadays just to see so much hyper-masculinity and have it be celebrated and have people i love this movie so much and whereas of the women in the movie if there was more of a balance if some of those like scary characters were women like if one of the hit people was a woman in there it just like struck more of a balance it would be easier for me to watch but now i'm just like so over this like

celebration of hyper masculinity that i'm like oh that being said this movie does a better job than a lot of them yeah especially because it kind of almost created it. Like, it created this run of, like, it's like for it to, because what I said at the beginning of the podcast

was like, I truly feel like Quentin Tarantino doesn't give a fuck about big issues. Like, so when he's writing this movie, he's definitely not,

like, his writing of Mia Wallace, he's not trying to be amenable to feminism. He's just trying to write a character you haven't seen before. He's like a film nerd who wants to see something you haven't seen before. I don't, he's not trying to be amenable to feminism. He's just trying to write a character you haven't seen before. He's like a film nerd who wants to see something you haven't seen before. I don't think he's writing it because he thinks men should do this and women should, you know what I mean? Like he's just like, he like is like a movie. He's like, all he is is like

a movie. So he's just shitting out a movie that he wants to see because he wants to be cool. Like it's called Pulp Fiction because it's based in all these sort of, it's like there's a boxer, there's hit men. It's like based in these like 50 cent novels, you know? And so I think he more cares about entertainment than anything. I don't think he gives a fuck. It's like, that's why he uses the N word. It's so awful, but he's like, I'm not racist.

Like he doesn't, he's not even really thinking about it. You know what I mean? He's trying to be cool and he's a man. So he can't understand like any issues. And so I think it's hard because you have to judge the movie based on what it is. But he seems like a crazy sort of person who isn't even really interacting in society. You know what I mean? I mean, that's a bad excuse in 2017. It's definitely a bad excuse. No, no, I'm not. You need to wake up. It's not an excuse. I just mean when I think about him, I don't think he has

a fuck. I don't think he gives a shit. You know what I mean? I mean, especially when this movie is being made. This is like, I feel like with, and we'll do more Tarantino movies in the future, his movies with time become more intentional. It's hard to trace intent with this movie where it does just seem like, oh, this is cool. This is something i like yeah like you're saying something i would like to see and you get a very interesting movie with a

lot of stuff you haven't seen before in it as a result but then the the trade-off is like it kind of becomes hard to analyze because it's like a lot of times we we see movies where women are either being sidelined or mistreated very intentionally because whatever the reason may be and this is just like hard to tell what the intention for almost anything is other than this seems cool i'll do this yeah i think it it like what's interesting about this movie too is it was like a very small budgeted movie you know what i mean like it's it's one of the most popular movies ever but it became became this phenomenon. So I think it became very influential, probably in a pretty negative way to enhancing toxic masculinity. But it was more he was just trying to like be cool.

I think he wasn't thinking like at least that's just what I get from him where he's like he's reversing tropes to some degree. Just in what he's doing in scenes. It's kind of shock jockeying sometimes. Yeah. Or like someone getting shot in the middle of a scene or like it's two hitmen just have it as you were saying like a six minute conversation about like amsterdam or feet or whatever it's like i clearly when watching is like he's concerned with that shit and like being having like these scenes and then it became this like behemoth and then all these men were like i gotta make that you know because i think the most

i feel like the fabian character is actually pretty bad. Like, I think that's like a pretty bad representation of a woman. Like, I think that's the worst by far. But I think... How come? Because she's a tiny person who seems helpless. She's sort of like a fantasy of a woman. Like, she's like French, has that haircut,

kind of like, and has like those big eyes and like has these like white shirts. He kills of like and has like those big eyes and like has these like white shirts he kills it with the white shirts by the way everyone wore amazing white shirts in that movie um bruce and fabian and uh they just the white shirts were amazing um she doesn't really do anything she talks about eating she loves her boyfriend that's what you know about her right and then she fucks up and is kind of helpless and then she's just kind of and she cries a lot so it's like kind of like i'd say that's bad but even then i think what he's trying to do is just like have like an adorable foreign woman you know what i mean like i don't think he's really thinking like it seems like he doesn't

he never even thought about the fact that it's like a person he's just writing these stupid yeah that's what i mean we do see just a little sliver of this character and she does have, I would argue, more personality than a lot of female characters have in movies. But because she, all the women in this movie are framed as like the romantic partner

of one of the male characters who we know a little bit better. We see actually doing things and they're just sort of like. Besides Kathy Griffin. Or, and Kathy Griffin. The working women of the movie characters who we know a little bit better, we see actually doing things. Or Esmeralda. Besides Kathy Griffin. And Kathy Griffin. The working women of the movie. I mean, yeah, and the Esmeralda scene was a little bizarre.

I mean, cool that you see the representation of a woman cab driver. A woman taxi driver. The one last thing I wanted to say about Fabienne before we move on from that character is while she does not have a lot of bearing on the plot and her main significance in the plot is fucking up so that Bruce Willis can launch into all these other weird scenes and eventually hold a katana, which is, I think, what Quentin Tarantino wants the whole time is like, how can I get from point A to Bruce Willis with a katana? Yeah, that's the whole thing. That's the most intent you'll find. I do think that scene, by the way, but that scene was really funny when he's in the pawn shop

and he goes from weapon to weapon to chainsaw. That is super funny. There's like a hammer. But the exchange between Bruce Willis, Butch, and Fabienne, and they're talking about bodies at the beginning of their exchange together where there's that kind of weird, but I think kind of good line where she's talking about like, I wish I had a potbelly. And he was like, why? That'd be fucking gross.

Or like, you know, whatever. They're back and forth. And it's very relationship talky. And then she says that line of like, oh's it's so weird that what feels good and what looks good to people is seldom the same or something like that and that for me was like whoa what an interesting like that character was used in some way that i got a positive takeaway from again impossible to know if this is just words that quentin tarantino thought sounded nice next to each other or ifino thought sounded nice next to

each other or if there was some intent next to it but that whole like relationship you've seen between them i thought pre him throwing a tv was very into their relationship post him throwing in a tv it's like now there's some stuff to address well there's also that part where she's like i went to pot belly and he's like if you had a pot belly i. And he's like, if you had a potbelly, I'd punch you in it. And we're like, ah, feminist icon Bruce Willis. No! Not our feminist icon. I did want to call attention to all the times in which a man in this movie calls a woman a bitch. Tell that bitch to chill. Yeah, okay. Early on. I've been known to say that every once in a while.

To any gender. When Jules is talking about Mia Wallace, he says it's like eating a bitch out and touching a bitch's feet. They're not even in the same ballpark. And then Eric Stoltz says, you're not bringing this fucked up bitch into my house. And then Vincent says about Eric Stoltz's wife, what a fucking bitch.

And then Butch says, you know what would make all of this even if Bruce Willis' character's name was Bitch then it would be totally fine

oh so then you would have to be what's up Bitch yeah you would be Young Bitch I would be Adult Bitch Young Bitch and then Old Bitch

would come in eventually and then this is Bitch calling Butch calling her a bitch. But he says, do you know how fucking stupid you are to Fabian? And then Jules at the end says, like, get that bitch under control or whatever. Bitch be cool.

Bitch be cool. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So there's. I love that one. It's front man. It's almost as if the male character.

Bitch be cool is a great line. But it's almost as if the male characters in this movie are not feminist icons, nor are they. Okay. So speaking of language, one of the other reasons it's hard for me to watch this movie and enjoy it as much as I have in the past is that the N-word just gets thrown around cabaretually all the time, often by white people, either to or in front of or just about people of color. And it is just very casual the way in which Quentin Tarantino is like,

yeah, let's just drop a hundred and bombs. He's like, guys, I'll do it myself. And also he has a black wife. Yeah. Which is so weird. It's very bizarre. Doesn't get any lines. We only see her from the back.

You just know that she'd get mad. Right. And divorce him because there's a dead body in her garage. What a bitch. It's also just weird that quentin tarantino cast himself like it's just like all it's just he's such a weird man like what is he doing we were talking about this last night where it's like at very least quentin tarantino saw himself in this movie and was like probably not again probably we're gonna we're gonna hang it up here. Which I respect because most directors that are like,

I want to be in it too. Like they don't know when to say when all the time. And he was like, you know what? I maybe did a crummy job. Yeah, the N-word is like, it just is a little, again, this is another thing where he's like trying to be cool. Right. And what's interesting about him, I think,

because he has written some roles for a lot of like famous roles for black characters. There are black actors who like defend it, you know, like Jamie Foxx has, or Samuel L. Jackson has, I'm sure Pam Greer did, you know what I mean?

Like things like that. But it is one of those things like I'm watching, I'm like, Oh God, like it's two white characters talking to each other sometimes like Stoltz and Travolta. And it's like, why is that word there?

Like, is this helping the movie? And it is a little, I did feel kind of viscerally upset. I was like, oh, why? Or when he says it to Samuel L. Jackson, Samuel L. Jackson doesn't respond to that word. I also thought that was interesting. It's like he's just saying, like clearly they're friends and he doesn't seem to care about it but it is a little like, what are we talking about here? Well that's,

I mean, what are we doing? It's because it's a white writer, director making the choices. A black writer and director probably would not have let that happen that way.

No, it's more just, I'm more just like, what do you think this is adding? Like it's so weird because it's, it's the 90s. It's just like a lack of intense again. No, like it's so weird because because it's 90s it's just like a lack of no but i saw hateful eight i saw hateful eight in theaters and um

that movie has the n-word a lot way more than pulp fiction and i saw it with and there were like people of all colors in the movie theater and i thought it was horrible like i was like this is really unnecessary and i don't know why we're doing this. Like, it's not like it doesn't you don't need that word to get across what's going on. It doesn't it doesn't the movie isn't saying anything about race. You know what I mean? Like, it's just like, what are we talking about here? And I think it bugs me no matter where in Quentin Tarantino's oeuvre it shows up. It sucks and it's uncomfortable.

And especially when in these movies where it's famously written by a white guy and you know exactly who it is. I feel like it makes it all the more uncomfortable to watch it be forced out of characters of any color's mouth. It's just like, it's just crazy. It's just sort of like to hear it like, whoa. By the time we get to Hateful Eight, it's so intentional that it's like, why the fuck would you still be doing it? It's just like a statement. Yeah. It's like, no, I can hold on to my words.

Like, it's just that freedom of speech bullshit, which is just like, what are we talking about, guys? Yeah. The last thing I want to say about this movie is that there's a line that Harvey Keitel's character says as they're like all kind of parting ways. He says, just because you are a character doesn't mean that you have character and i think that is a thesis statement for the way so many women are written in movies just because they are a character in the movie technically doesn't mean they i didn't think about that when hearing that line i just thought it was like a kind of a dad joke but i mean sure that's totally what it's intended to be. That's very funny.

But I absorbed it and I was like, hey, what a way to describe how women are portrayed in movies a lot of the time. Can we really, really quick, and this is not like something to be like, hey, really quick, can we talk about the brutal rape scene in this movie? But it was very taken aback. But I must have blacked it out because I just straight up did not remember this happened in the movie. So there is a male on male rape scene in this movie when there's a lot to unpack there. But what I thought was another like, okay, that was a choice that kind of felt true to the character of Marcellus is that Marcellus basically is like, we're in this will never be spoken of again. And that's sort of where Bruce Willis' story closes. Of like, okay, cool. We're never going to talk about the fact that I got raped again. We are going to talk about Kevin, though. We are.

Not until 2011. It's not that we have to talk about Kevin. So we need to talk about Kevin. Okay, I won't talk about what happened to you, but we do need to talk about Kevin. We need to talk about Kevin. He's troubled. He's got a bow and arrow in the backyard. What's going on with that kid? What a weird movie. Let's never do that movie on the show. I've never seen it. It turns out we didn't need to talk about Kevin.

Sorry. I didn't mean to interrupt you, obviously, but like, what do you, can you finish that thought? I'm curious. I, so I thought that that was an interesting, and again, there's no intent in this movie, but a hyper-masculine reaction to an event like that of like, let's never talk about it. And it's not, I feel like it's not even implied of like because this is a traumatic horrible experience that will affect me for the rest of my life but the

implication was more because it was embarrassing for me or like because people would make fun of me for it like his intent in saying let's never talk about it again didn't seem connected to the trauma that there would be with an experience like that. Well, you know what it's connected to, I now realize, is remember when Samuel L. Jackson and John Travolta are talking to the guys that they shoot in the beginning of the movie, and he's like, is Marcellus Wallace your bitch?

So then theoretically what this guy did, what the Peter Green character, the cop rapist, made him, quote unquote, his bitch, which is the worst thing to happen to a guy. Like, that's what happened there. It's more of like a homophobic, like, I can't be the lesser. The receiver of prostate pleasure. Exactly. Yeah. And as opposed to any, I mean, there's no commentary there, but it was like a very sort of a very hyper masculine move by a hyper masculine character.

But just thought worth mentioning. There's a lot to unpack there. What is Marcellus like three years down the line after that experience? He needs a lot of therapy. He's like, this keeps happening to me. I'm struggling. I gotta like get a new job. I just, well, to me, it's like Quentin Tarantino being obsessed with, like, revenge narratives,

where, like, Marcellus gets raped, and then he gets to exact immediate revenge on his rapist by shooting his dick off, and then just... Right. We don't see what happens after that, but he basically describes... Yeah. Which is great. All for dicks getting shot off. Between, like, Kill Bill, which is just straight up a revenge story.

Django Unchained and Glorious Bastards. These are all just like stories of like, let's just get revenge on these people. So I think it's I feel like that scene was put in there because he's like, I'm obsessed with people getting revenge for doing. Well, and I also think that there's a little part in quentin tarantino's little weird lizard brain that's like have people ever seen a man-on-man rape scene before i think that's exactly that's what it felt like he's like what's cool he's like trying to do something memorable or cool you know i really think that's where he's coming from but that to me makes it so much worse it's like of of like oh well i've never seen this on screen. Let me just put it on screen.

Let me not think about any of the ramifications or how a character would realistically deal with this. Let me just like I haven't seen this. Here it is. I would bet all my money that that's exactly what it is. I don't think he is thought about it at all. Like even in like the masculinity part, which is interesting because obviously he's a man. So he can't see what he's doing. He doesn't know what he does, I guess. But he's

almost just like, no, I haven't seen this, so mathematically I should do that. Like, even with the masculinity part, I think, like I would think he thinks he's a feminist because he did kill Bill. You know what I mean? But he doesn't really... Quentin Tarantino for sure thinks he's a feminist. Right, because he's not even, he's not even really like, think, he's

yeah, I just think he watches movies all day long and isn't a person. Yeah, but then when Harvey Weinstein is exposed as a predator, Quentin Tarantino really like, yeah, I just think he watches movies all day long and isn't a person. Yeah, but then when Harvey Weinstein is exposed as a predator, Quentin Tarantino's like, um, that sucks. Like, there's just, oh, God. Yeah. Yeah. I'm sure he thinks he's a feminist. Probably.

While Uma Thurman is threatening to murder Harvey Weinstein on Instagram.com. A true feminist icon. That's wild. We're running out of time, so we should talk about whether or not the movie passes the Bechdel test. It does. In one scene where Jodi and Trudy, because we both know their names, are talking about Jodi's piercings. Ooh, which introduces a new fun Bechdel asterisk to how we interpretate the testate interpret the test on the podcast meryl street meryl street's interpretative so a lot of times uh when we talk about the podcast people will

be like oh it's mainly about the bechdel test which isn't we talk about how women are portrayed but new asterisk to the test because people ask about our particular interpretation of it. So when we see this scene that passes the Bechdel test, we do not yet know the names of the female characters, but we find out what their names are in the scene immediately following. For us, that's a pass. That's a pass. We find out what their names are. We don't know when the scene is happening,

but we learn pretty much right after. Right, yeah. I mean, we have to make all these exceptions or else no movies would pass the Bechdel test. A little fun nitpicky new aster after. Right, yeah. I mean, we have to make all these exceptions or else no movies would pass the Bechdel test. A little fun nitpicky new asterisk. Right.

But yeah, we do find other names, so, and they are talking, I don't think a man gets mentioned once in that conversation. They're just talking about Rosanna Arquette's

various piercings all over her body. Right, just a real Quentin Tarantino for some reason didn't hit the camera. Although she does say, because she's talking about her tongue piercing,

she's like, it's to make fellating better. So she's basically... But fellating whom? Fellating whom? Probably a man? I think that that is... Is that too heteronormative? I say, I don't know, and therefore I'm a queer icon. You're right, I'm sorry.

Okay, yeah, so that's the one scene where it passes the... I don't know. And therefore, I'm a queer icon. You're right. I'm sorry. Okay. Yeah. So that's the one scene where it passes the back. I don't think any other scenes have two women even interacting. Interacting. There are sometimes two women in a scene, but they don't talk to each other. Right. Like in the restaurant or something like that.

But yeah. Right. Let's rate the movie on our nipple scale, where we rate the movie based on its portrayal of women. Zero to five nipple scale. This is going to be tricky because we see female characters who have personalities for once. Most of them have names that I can think of. Of the ones that have speaking roles, I think almost all of them have names. And there are more than one woman in the movie.

There's like up to five or six with speaking roles. What a depressing. But because this is a movie about men and their storylines, if there are women, they're sort of framed as the girlfriend or the wife. And they're not really contributing that much to the story. I'm going to give it like a two, I think. And again, it did bother me that like the two main plot points where a woman does something to significantly impact the direction the story takes is them making a mistake that has to be corrected by a man. So that bugged me a lot. So yeah, it's going to be two nipples. And I'm going to give my nipples to Meryl Streep. Meryl Streep? Wow. Yeah.

Hit us up, Meryl Streep. Please. Okay. Parts in this movie, I wish Alfred Molina had perhaps had. Of course. I think he could have done Harvey Keitel's part very well. I don't know if he could have done it as well as Harvey Keitel. And that's a lot because Alfred Mullin is a master of his craft, as we know. I think that he could have done Bruce Willis's part and it could have been a really fun breakout role for him. He could have played, he could have also played Mia Wallace. Like he's amazing. Certainly. I'm also going to give this movie two nipples for the reasons you described it's interesting when you think about quentin tarantino's work as a whole where this is his second hit after reservoir dogs which is such a male male male movie that we barely see a woman in the entire fucking thing. So it is interesting that he's gradually introducing women into his body of work.

Pulp Fiction is not, you know, it's not a woman's film. It's not a feminist masterpiece. It's an actor's film. It's a tone poem. It's a lot of things. There's a lot of horny depth in the film. Oh, sure. I think we can argue that there's a lot of horny tone poem elements to the film. I think we can argue that there's a lot of horny tone poem elements to the film. But

it's interesting that this is the movie where we see Quentin Tarantino start to realize hey, what if I put a woman in the movie doing literally anything? Yeah, it sucks that women are either damsel or have basically no bearing on the plot. So I'll

give it two nippies and I'm going to give those nippies to Esmeralda. Oh, very nice. Jake, what would you give? So one thing I want to say is I think Jackie Brown would also be an interesting movie to do on your podcast because it came right after and it's all about yeah, anyway, I think two

is pretty accurate. Did you just mansplain to us what movies we should do on our podcast? I'm a man. I warned you. When I emailed you, I said, even though I'm a dumb man, I'd like to do your podcast. I warned you ahead of time I was a man. You didn't know I was a man. It's true. Yeah, I just think it'd be interesting. Honestly, I just

haven't seen Jackie Brown in a long time, and it's about a woman. And it's like, you know, it's about Pam Greer, and it's like a very it's her movie, so it'd be an interesting movie to do. Because it is the movie I think after this movie. So it would be interesting to see how much he changed. I wish that we had done both.

Anyway. Yeah. Two, I think is pretty fair. I mean, cause also again, I mean, I love the movie. Like even with all this stuff, watching it from this angle, which I never had before, I still love the movie. I think it's like super entertaining and ridiculous and it's a relic from childhood. So it's kind of stuck there for me.

But yeah, representation of women, I don't think you can argue. I think two is being generous. Obviously Mia Wallace is like a pretty awesome character. And I do think you really remember her and she's cool as shit. But I don't think you can say that from a female perspective this helps at all. I think in the end, if anything for gender, it has definitely been on the wrong side of history.

But as a movie, I do love watching it. I have to admit, I think it's really fun. Yeah. Jake, thank you so much for being here. Thank you for having me.

Wow, where can people find you online? At WeissmanJake on Twitter and that's it. But check out corporate. What can we say to corporate? Please watch corporate on Comedy Central at 10 p.m. on January 17th.

You can also watch the first four episodes right now for free on cc.com. I think you'll really like the show. It's good. It's so good. Hooray. Vouched. Love it. Thanks.

You can follow us on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, all the good stuff at Bechtelcast. And go to our website, bechtelcast.com. You can subscribe to our Patreon. That would be a blast for you if you did that. That would be a blast for you. It would be a blast. It helps us out with our production costs. It helps you out by getting even more Bechtelcast. Wow.

What a gift. What a time to be alive. What a time. 2018. The stuff for Patreon is just you two talking about men. It's just like a list of our Google spreadsheet hit list. We should just do an episode where we list all of Alfred Molina's movies. I'm going to start. That's a different podcast.

Going through Alfred Molina's entire body of work with Alfred Molina. It's kind of just a thing for me and Alfred Molina. I'm sorry. No one can be included except the two of us. I understand. And it ends with us hooking up at the end of every episode. Congratulations. We hook up.

Okay, cool. That was the podcast. Thanks for listening. Bye. Bye. Daphne Caruana Galizia was a Maltese investigative journalist who on October 16th, 2017, was assassinated. Crooks Everywhere unnerves the plot to murder a one-woman WikiLeaks. She exposed the culture of crime and corruption that were

turning her beloved country into a mafia state. Listen to Crooks Everywhere on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. That was live audio of a woman's nightmare. Can Kay trust her sister or is history repeating itself? There's nothing dangerous about what you're doing. They're just dreams. Dream Sequence is a new horror thriller from Blumhouse Television, iHeartRadio, and Realm. Listen to Dream Sequence on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. There's so much beauty in Mexican culture. Like mariachis, delicious cuisine, and even lucha libre.

Join us for the new podcast, Lucha Libre Behind the Mask, a 12-episode podcast in both English and Spanish about the history and cultural richness of lucha libre. And I'm your host, Santos Escobar, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you stream podcasts.