The Bechdel Cast - Real Women Have Curves with Mala Muñoz

Episode Date: September 22, 2022

On this very hot and sweaty episode, Jamie, Caitlin, and special guest Mala Muñoz discuss Real Women Have Curves. (This episode contains spoilers) For Bechdel bonuses, sign up for our Patreon at patreon.com/bechdelcast Follow @mala_munoz on Twitter. While you're there, you should also follow @BechdelCast, @caitlindurante, and @jamieloftusHELPSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Daphne Caruana Galizia was a Maltese investigative journalist who on October 16th 2017 was assassinated. Crooks Everywhere unearthed the plot to murder a one-woman WikiLeaks. She exposed the culture of crime and corruption that were turning her beloved country into a mafia state. Listen to Crooks Everywhere on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. To listen to new episodes one week early and 100% ad-free, subscribe to the iHeart True Crime Plus channel, available exclusively on Apple Podcasts. Kay hasn't heard from her sister in seven years. I have a proposal for you. Come up here and document my project.

All you need to do is record everything like you always do. What was that? That was live audio of a woman's nightmare. Can Kay trust her sister? Or is history repeating itself? There's nothing dangerous about what you're doing. They're just dreams. Dream Sequence is a new horror thriller

from Blumhouse Television, iHeartRadio, and Realm. Listen to Dream Sequence on the iHeartRadio app, They're just dreams. and professor at Stanford University School of Medicine, known for his research on brain function, behavior, and neuroplasticity, the brain's ability to adapt and rewire itself. The expectation on us is not perfections, being able to toggle between these different states. Listen to On Purpose with Jay Shetty on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Trust me, you won't want to miss this one. On the Bechdelcast, the questions asked if movies have women in them. Are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands or do they have individualism? The patriarchy's effing vast. Start changing it with the Bechdel cast. Jamie, it's so hot in here. Can you please turn the fan on in this recording studio no it gets it gets the podcast dusty i can't can't turn on the fan the podcast will be covered in dust it'll be a catastrophe

for us sorry well fine i'll just take off all my clothes then all right that's not my business i guess i'll do the same i'll do the same yeah I'll do the same. Yeah, that sounds great, actually. The only person that's going to piss off is mommy. Mommy podcast. Cool. Well, I'm glad we sorted that out. Yeah, that resolved very cleanly. Welcome to the Bechdel cast. My name is Caitlin Durante.

My name is Jamie Loftus. And this is our podcast where we take a look at your favorite movies using an intersectional feminist lens, using the Bechdel test as a jumping off point for discussion. Whereby two people of a marginalized gender have to have names. They have to speak to each other. And their conversation has to be about something other than a man. And ideally, for our sake, it is a meaningful, substantial conversation. And not just like a, hey, what? No, keep this going. This this feels this sounds good this feels good um how's your soup and then the other person says i'm not listening to you go away and then the first character disappears forever and they're like wait my name is crystal as they're leaving

but it's too late we didn't hear it screen. That's an example of something that is great writing, but not great to pass it. Look, anyways, it's a flawed metric because that was an amazing scene we just did. I'm going to base an entire screenplay around it. Yeah. It's going to be called an extremely soupy movie. An extreme... No. No, it's not. Yes, it is. And i can't engage with this joke any further i can't

i draw the line look look in the case of today's episode uh-huh bechdel test not a problem let's just say that right now no problem at all yeah yes and so i said let's let's get to it let's get our incredible returning Bechtelcast guest into the room let's get her in the mix we simply must she's a comedian podcaster creator and host of Mere Juanera a podcast for potheads and you remember her from our episode on Selena it's Mala Munoz. Hey, everyone. Thank you for having me. It feels great to be back. It's our pleasure. And it is also mine. We brought you back in 1000 degree heat. It's you know what I there's literally nothing else I would rather be doing than podcasting about this film in a heatwave. It's apt. It makes sense makes sense yeah i feel like i'm in the movie it's true we were

joking about how by the end of the episode we will all be taking our clothes off hopefully because of the heat look pr nightmare maybe will hr get involved maybe possibly am i open to it? Yes. It's so fucking hot today. It is 100 or like 97 degrees in where I'm at in LA right now. Unpleasant. But you know what's not unpleasant? The movie we're discussing today. Oh my gosh. Very fun watch.

Very enjoyable. Real women have curves. Yes. Mala, what's your relationship, your history with this film? You know, I feel like my relationship with the film starts with my relationship with America Ferreira, because she was like a Disney Channel darling. She was in Gotta Kick It Up about the Latina dance team. And that's where like, I was born in 92. That's where I was first introduced to America Ferreira. So when Real Women Have Curves came out it was like oh this is a recognizable

actress who we love and she had this like incredible like role and I don't know if that's a movie that a lot of people have seen but in like little Latina circles gotta kick it up Real Women Have Curves super just iconic like staples of our media

diet nice so did you see Real Women Have Curves like right when it came out Super just iconic like staples of our media diet Nice So did you see Real Women Have Curves like right when it came out? You know so 2002 I don't remember where I was or where I saw it I just remember that like it was like this standout movie to me Because of Lupo Antiveros is in it George Lopez is in it America Frere is in it and there are others throughout the film who are iconic actors and actresses but I remember thinking like oh my god like this little movie is like has all these recognizable faces that I've seen in all these other projects like you, you know, Lupe Ontiveros played Yolanda Saldivar in the Selena biopic.

Yeah. So for that reason, it was like, wow, like I've seen these faces in all these other projects, Disney Channel, Selena, George Lopez, and now they're all here in this one movie. Like, that's fucking sick. What a great cast and like amazing performances across the board.

And learning about the, I mean, we'll get into it, but like learning about the production history of this movie is like very frustrating and very fascinating and I just like can't wait to get into it truly agreed Jamie what is your relationship with this movie I had kind of a similar journey I every decom that came out was my favorite movie. And so Gotta Kick It Up was, I feel like, a significant one that was kind of in the upper pantheon of DCOMs. I really, really loved it. That was definitely how I, even though I think that technically Real Women Have Curves was made before Gotta Kick It Up,

definitely learned about America Ferr and like fell in love with her through gotta kick it up and i don't remember i know i saw real women have curves when i was a kid i was trying to sort out in my head the sequence of events of like i might have seen like gotta kick it up sisterhood of the traveling pants and then seeing real women have curves to be like we have to get into vintage America Ferrera. Right. But I definitely saw it when I was in like either late middle school, early high school,

really, really loved it. Have revisited it a couple of times over the years, but I hadn't seen it in a really long time. And definitely not since I had moved to LA. And so it was like such a delight to like revisit. I really love this movie and yeah, getting to learn more about the film and kind of the,

the added, like I feel like this is such a cool example of like adapting something into a movie. Well, which is so often done badly or sloppily or lazily or whatever but like this is just like a beautiful adaptation and i'm so excited to talk about it yeah caitlin what's your history with real women have curves i saw this movie in high school because it came out in 2002 i think i would have seen it in like 2003 or 4 when I was about honest character's age in the movie

because I think if my memory serves me correctly my mom had heard about this movie and was like I heard it's really good Roger Ebert gave it three and a half stars let's watch it let's rent it from the video store the ultimate yardstick this is a very like I feel like I probably watched this with my mom it's a very mother like there's not a lot of mother-daughter movies yeah I mean and their relationship will get there but and it would have required someone we had to have the dvd of this film to watch it so I feel like I went to blockbuster or someone recommended it and and because I don't remember seeing it in the movie theaters or on TV like I feel like it was a DVD situation yeah exactly yeah that's my

recollection as well gosh like yeah like the the later Blockbuster years what a beautiful what a beautiful time in its twilight does anyone remember the last DVD they got from Blockbuster wow I feel like that's a fun question. My hometown was so small that we didn't even have a Blockbuster. Wow. We had to go to just like the local video rental store, which I don't even remember what it was called now. It might have just been called like video store. The video store.

Amazing. the video store amazing um anyway so yeah i saw it in high school as a teenager and i haven't watched it since then i don't think but there were two scenes in particular that are just like seared into my memory you know when you watch a movie that you and then you you don't see it for years but there are just like little moments that you will never forget. And then I've just been like logged into your memory bank forever. The scene where America Ferrera is like admiring her body. She like pulls her robe open and is like looking at herself in the mirror. And then her mom comes in and she like immediately knows that she's lost her

virginity. That like was completely seared into my memory and then the like climactic scene at the end when all the women at the dress factory are taking their clothes off and comparing bodies and anna's mom is horrified like what a great scene i will never forget that the other scene that i i did not remember the her mom being like you lost your virginity and being right i was like oh i'm glad i'm kind of glad that didn't stick with me i was like oh how did she know that uh yeah but i think it was seared into my memory because i was so afraid that that would happen to me with my mom oh my god like you can tell like I do I look

different and in that scene too she opens with like she uses such strong language with Anna like throughout the movie one of the things that like really sticks out to me is like the vocabulary that Carmen that Anna's mother uses so like immediately immediately in that scene, she's like, you tramp. And then she tells her like, not only are you fat, you're a puta, you know? Very hard language that just really punctuates like every aspect of the scene. Yeah, totally.

One of the scenes that stuck with me the hardest on this viewing was the scene where it's like Anna's first day working at the factory and her mom is body shaming her and then the second another person enters the room she's all of a sudden nice and you're like oh no I know that dynamic like that's so that's I don't know how many times I've like seen that like on screen like depicted in a very straightforward way of like well yeah like you know I could be a total asshole to you when no one's around but then the second there's a third party my demeanor completely changes and you're like yeah that I saw that

a ton growing up like it's just yeah Anna's mom has this way of just like raining on her parade like at every possible moment like even from the opening scene of them because like that scene where she's like talking bad to Anna like Anna's like admiring a dress on one of the mannequins and she's just looking at it and how pretty it is and

her mother immediately comes in with you can't fit into that like you're way too fat there's no way there's enough fabric to cover you like look at your chi-chis they're so huge and then in walks norma and even the very first scene of the movie anna's on her way to school her last day of high school and her mom is sick in bed and asking her to stay home to make breakfast for the men you know she's just like a party pooper throughout the whole film that scene that scene like at the factory

like truly i was like oh my god she was literally just standing there and like it turned into an attack like oh yeah yeah we will unpack that yes relationship soon yes it's wild because she's so likable she's so lovable the mom even when she's saying all these horrible things like yeah she's still kind of funny when she's saying them and like the tension between the two of them is like i don't know there's something still endearing about her even as she infuriates you you know right i feel like a lot of that is just like lupe on tiberio's performance as well. Like her. Yeah. Oh, man.

Across the board. Like every performance in this movie is so good and like layered and full of heart. And I mean, the fact that like America Ferrera was 15 when she starred in this movie and like the whole range of like she's just so fucking talented. It is such a good movie i i'm sad i like slept on it for all of those years in between like when i first saw it and now you're back baby i'm back baby um shall i do the recap let's do it okay so we meet anna garcia played played by America Ferreira. She's a teenager who is about to finish high school in Los Angeles. Ever heard of it? We meet her family.

Her sister, Estela, played by Ingrid, and I'm not sure how to pronounce her last name, Oliu. Her dad, Raul, played by Jorge Cervera Jr. Her grandfather, her abuelito. And then her mom, Carmen, played by jorge cervera jr her grandfather her like abuelito and then her mom carmen played by lupe ontiveros who anna has a loving but difficult relationship with as we've hinted at and we'll discuss further carmen we will learn gets on anna's case about a lot of different things and has certain pretty rigid expectations for Anna and and for Estella yes Anna heads to her last day of high school she and her family live in I think East LA yeah Boyle Heights right because that was like very based on the source material.

This was adapted from a play. I know we'll talk about this, but a play by Josefina Lopez, who writes about Boyle Heights a ton. Like that is very much her background in her community. Yeah. Yep. But Ana takes several city buses to get to school in Beverly Hills. Her teacher, Mr. Guzman, played by George Lopez, asks her about her college applications, but she says she's not going to college because her family cannot afford it.

He reminds her that there are scholarships, grants, financial aid, but she's like, I don't know. Not that she doesn't want to, it's just she knows it's going to be like an issue within the family. Exactly. Yeah. Her family throws a little congrats on graduating high school celebration. We also see Anna quit her job at a fast food joint, which upsets her mom. But it's a fun scene to watch her quit. I loved watching her quit.

That was very fun. And I actually think that the cashier is Josefina Lopez the one who hands her okay she is in the movie as a character named Veronica but I was like who's Veronica I couldn't remember exactly that's so cool all right that's great and she killed it she was so great in that scene. She's keeping Anna's check in her bra, and Anna's like, that's sick. Now I like that scene even more. I was just like, whoever that character actor was was really funny. Yeah.

Holy shit. Oh, that's great. And now that I'm looking at her picture again, I'm like, oh, yeah, that totally was her. That's her. Yeah. Amazing. So Anna quits her job, which upsets her mom, who suggests she work at the clothing factory that her sister Estella runs. Something that neither Anna nor Estella really want.

But Anna needs to learn, needs to earn money to help the family. And Estella is behind on her work orders. So she will go to work at the factory. Mr. Guzman pays Anna a visit to keep encouraging her to submit college applications. But her family and her mom especially are against Anna going to college right now because she needs to work and help the family. The next day, Anna and her sister and mom go to Estella's clothing factory, where they assemble dresses to be sold at Bloomingdale's for $600, even though the manufacturer only pays them $18 per dress to assemble each dress.

And Anna points out how unfair this is, how their labor is being exploited. Also, I think probably at the time that would have been the first time i'd heard that issue discussed in a movie like at all for sure yeah there's a an interesting class discussion around this movie for sure and then we meet the other women who work at the factory such as pancha norm, Norma, and Rosalie. Also, Ana's mom, Carmen, body shames Ana several times and tends to comment on most people's weight. Yeah. That's just kind of a habit of hers.

Yeah, because there is that scene where, I mean, the scene we were just talking about where she is verbally abusive towards her daughter. Her employees start to arrive and then she's nice to them but then she also turns on her employees pretty quickly and starts criticizing them as well and you're like oh i guess this is just her personality oh everybody gets it yeah yeah she gives it to everybody everyone gets a slice you get a polite hello and then uh things take a turn. Uh-huh.

Yep. So then Anna gives her filled out college applications to Mr. Guzman. But he points out that she's missing a personal statement and that she needs to write one as soon as possible. Then Anna runs into her classmate, Jimmy, who seems to like her. He's got a little crush. And he gives Anna his phone number. Back at the factory, Estela is struggling to keep up with the work order,

especially after several of her workers unexpectedly leave to move to Mexico. Then we get a scene where Carmen tells Ana a secret that Carmen thinks she's pregnant. But Anna is like, Mom, that's pretty unlikely. Probably not what's happening. For all the shit that Anna has to put up with. I love that she's always very quick to be like, enough. Like, stop.

No. She advocates for herself exceptionally well. Yeah and i love her for it even in situations where you can tell like i don't know or where it felt to me like you could tell she's like i'm not gonna win this battle but i have to say this like you're not pregnant mom so then anna goes with estella to speak to m Glass, who is the owner of the dress manufacturing company, to ask for an advance so they can pay the bills and keep the lights running at the factory. But Mrs. Glass still denies them an advance. So then Anna goes to her dad for a loan. Meanwhile, Anna goes out on a date with that kid, Jimmy.

They have a nice time. He's got big that kid, Jimmy energy, too. I was like, who is this Elijah Wood ass looking kid? Yeah, Elijah Wood wasn't available slash he's too old. Too old. That kid, Jimmy, he was only in movies for a couple of years. And then he who knows, he tapped out. He's done.

Yeah. i liked his character though he uh you know he said some things that made me go but uh overall i would agree with that he was he seemed like a sweet kid he's he's very like her first nice white boyfriend you know it's it's an experience it's a type it's oh i had a nice white boyfriend like back home like and that's him right right yeah so she goes out with jimmy anna then turns in her personal statement to mr guzman we see another day at work it's hard it's hot anna admires the dresses she steams at the factory and is sad to remember that they're not for her. But then Estella surprises Anna with a dress that she made especially for Anna in a very sweet moment.

I love that part. And it is a beautiful dress, too. And I always wish there was like a dress reveal moment, like an occasion for her to wear that dress. I was like, is there a cut scene because it felt like chekhov's dress exactly where is the dress where is she wearing it yeah i hope she wore it at like some i don't know some new york event yeah she goes to to a mixer at columbia yeah yeah she's like i just wore a gown to orientation. Is that normal?

Can you do that? Then Mr. Guzman stops by to let Anna know that she's been accepted to Columbia University with a full scholarship, but her parents are still like, now is not the right time for Anna to go to college, which is extremely disappointing to Anna. She then goes out with Jimmy again.

They have sex. Her mom senses that she has lost her virginity. And like we were saying earlier, she calls on a tramp and a puta. And one of the biggest mysteries of the movie. How did she know? How did she know? How did she know? Was it because America Ferrera was like looking in the mirror being like, go me? Like, how did she know? My guess is that she was just like confidently admiring her body.

Her body. For the first time ever. Yeah. Right. So she's like, I better put an end to this confidence my daughter's feeling. That was more the Spidey sense going off. I think my daughter's having a good feeling. It's like her favorite refrain.

She's always like, a mother knows. A woman knows. She just knows. And this time she was right. She turns out to not be right about being pregnant because she goes to the doctor. Take 100 shots and you're going to make one eventually. True. The reason that Carmen has missed several periods in a row is because she is going through menopause, not because she is pregnant.

So then we see another day at the dress factory. It's a particularly hot day and Estella won't turn on the fan because it blows dust on the dresses. So Anna takes off her shirt and her mom freaks out. But Anna is like, what's the big deal? We're all women here. We all have the same parts. And then all of the other women at the factory take their clothes off. They compare bodies.

They compare cellulite and stretch marks. And they're like, we're beautiful. We're awesome. But Carmen is looking on in horror. And Anna is just like, this is who we are, mom. Real women. And Carmen storms out while the other ladies continue working and dancing and celebrating themselves and their bodies. I'm interested in talking about the shooting situation around that scene.

There's a lot to talk about there, too. Oh, I'm interested to learn more. And then finally, Anna heads off to Columbia University. She tries to say goodbye to Carmen and to get her mom's blessing, but Carmen refuses. So her dad and grandpa take Anna to the airport. And then we see Anna walking down the streets of New York City. Ever heard of it? And that's how the movie ends. So let's take a quick break and then we will come back to discuss. Daphne Caruana Galizia was a Maltese investigative journalist who on October 16th, 2017, was murdered. There are crooks everywhere you look now. The situation is desperate.

My name is Manuel Delia. I am one of the hosts of Crooks Everywhere, a podcast that unhurts the plot to murder a one-woman Wikileaks. Daphne exposed the culture of crime and corruption that were turning her beloved country into a mafia state. And she paid the ultimate price. Listen to Crooks everywhere on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

To listen to new episodes one week early and 100% ad-free, subscribe to the iHeart True Crime Plus channel, available exclusively on Apple Podcasts. Hey, it's Teddy Mellencamp. And Tamara Judge, better known as the Twats. Yep, you heard that right. We're the hosts of Two Teas in a Pod. For all the housewife lovers out there, every week we break down every episode and give you our opinions.

We cover it all. OC, Jersey, Beverly Hills, New York City, Dubai. As we always say, you're only as good as last week's episode. Plus, we're talking to all your favorite bravo-lebrities and not just housewives. We're putting your favorite people in the twat seat and getting the juicy stories everybody wants to know. So join us as we stir the pot and get ourselves into some trouble. Okay, maybe a lot of trouble. It's not really trouble when it's truthful. Let's just say we can be a little twatty.

Listen to Two Teas in a Pod on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, everyone. Amy Robach here along with TJ Holmes, and we have a very exciting announcement to make to all of you. We are expanding. We are now going to be coming to you Monday through Friday for a new part of our Amy and TJ franchise, if you will, The Morning Run. We're going to help listeners navigate the busy news cycle and the historic political season that the country is facing.

And we're going to do this now each and every day. Wow, we have a news franchise now. I like the way you put that. We're going to be covering all the latest news headlines for all of you. We'll have entertainment updates and we'll even give some perspective on the current events that are happening right now. And this, by the way, is in addition to our already established bi-weekly podcast that we hope you guys are tuning into as well with more in-depth conversations and interviews. So we're going to be with you Monday through Friday with Morning Run. Listen to Morning Run on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. And we're back. I feel like a little bit of context for how this movie came to be

is a good place to start before we get into the characters so this as we've sort of hinted at already this is a movie that is based on a play by Josefina Lopez her background is she was born in Mexico and then immigrated to Los Angeles a lot of her work surrounds that experience and sort of reflections of her experience. This play is very much a part of that. She started writing, reading about her career. I'd never like gone down this Wikipedia hole and she's like so fucking cool. She wrote her first play in high school while the rest of us were doing God knows what. She was at work and she wrote a play called Simply Maria or The American Dream. She then went on to write Real Women Have Curves.

The play was very well regarded. It was very successful. My understanding is it's pretty close to what happens in the movie because she co-writes the screenplay and is apparently one of my favorite characters I just learned. But anyways, Real Women Have Curves is her biggest hit so far. And people want to adapt it in one way or another. Originally, and I didn't know any of this before reading this kind of retrospective piece. So at the time, it was going to be adapted for television by Norman Lear, who is, first of all, 100 years old and still alive, which you

gotta hand it to him. Wow. But he had a reputation in Hollywood for being one of the only producers who championed diverse stories for television. And so most diverse families you saw on television in the 70s, 80s and 90s into the 2000s, he's still working, were a result of his championing. He is a white producer who was known for championing women's stories and diverse stories so he seemed to Josefina Lopez to be kind of a natural fit for um getting this project adapted into television however he did he did one day at a time right like the more recent adaptation yeah yeah and the first one was also him right and he did i'm trying to

i was like god older tv is truly not my strength but let me get let me get a few of his hits on the board uh samford and son was his one day at a time the jeffersons good times mod uh one of my favorite shows ever mary hartman mary hartman like he he did he could he got stories on tv that no one else was trying to very cool so josefina lopez was excited that he wanted to help adapt it but even with the norman lear co-sign they could not sell real women have curves as a tv series to networks networks said it was not relatable a story enough which we know is absolute horseshit horseshit but very typical of hollywood of tv yeah to this day yeah so josefina lopez is discouraged she's like one of the biggest TV producers in the world. Can't get this produced. Who's going to? There's a second wind with this project as a film script. So she meets a writer named George Levoux, which is what a what a fun name.

But I just like to say it. George Levoux. She meets Levoux. And they decide to collaborate on a screenplay together. And finally, they find an executive who wants to fund the project. And I have a quote here. So this project was funded by HBO, which I don't think I knew, not that it matters. I just didn't know it was an HBO movie. So Josefina Lopez says this, I believe in 2017, in this retrospective, HBO's Maude Nadler had the power to say yes. It came down to a female executive

saying women's stories matter. Stories about mothers and daughters are important to me because I love my mother. And I remember asking Maude after we made the film why she said yes she said because i love my mother it took a woman in a position of power to find value in the story which is i thought i don't know that was like oh that's really nice oh yeah and none of those men love their mothers they all hate their mothers i love my mother not enough to fund a story a woman let's not go let's not go look look i respect women to a point very like as the father of a daughter energy yes uh so the project gets funded uh they find uh director Patricia Cardoso who I believe is raised in Colombia she signs on for the project LeVue and Lopez become the hottest writing team in Hollywood the the movies. Oh, and then another huge thing that happens is George Lopez signs on as a co-producer,

which also was like a big hand in getting this movie in front of people. It goes to Sundance and the rest is history. But it was a huge. I mean, I think we see this a lot of times in projects that are not centered around the white experience and the white male experience like it was a huge uphill battle to get this project made even though it was already like a proven successful entity through the play right right and it really has aged so well i was watching it this morning and like the jokes land the writing feels like still very like charming and fresh and

it's just a fun watch and like nothing in that movie is standing out in a bad cringy way unless it's supposed to be you know it's just like so well written and you know it's like yeah the work speaks for itself it's funny and like it's just like i don't know this movie has so much going for it so charming sorry there's like a trash removal truck right outside my window making loud noises my air conditioner is on because it's eight million degrees my sorry for all the noise fire truck just passed my house and i smell fire oh no there's a lot going on oh god God, I hope everyone is okay. Okay, let's come back to talking about

the movie that takes place in LA around like literally this exact time of year. Yeah, during a heat wave in the summer. The sweltering heat. Oh my gosh. But yeah, this movie does age so well. And we've talked about, there's like a span of time for movies and honestly it ranges for a long quite a long time but you know if you're from a

certain generation especially the movies of like the late 90s early 2000s like if that's when you're coming of age and those are like the movies and the media that you were like most exposed to which is the case for me at least that era was just such a crapshoot for for most media because it was like just steeped in sexism racism homophobia transphobia ableism like you name it marginalized communities were punched down to in media so it's just so refreshing to see a movie that's 20 years old from the early 2000s to be a movie that is like so i mean feminist masterpiece number one has so many strong impactful messages the exact type of thing that like young people need to see to like be influenced in the right

direction because it has such strong themes and messaging about like body positivity sex positivity it showcases a complicated relationship between a mother and daughter but one that's this very authentic and and familiar to a lot of people so it's just like it's doing so much. Class commentary. There's something that honestly like didn't even didn't connect for me until I saw it like explicitly kind of said by the creators of the movie. Because I didn't have my proper 2002 goggles on, I guess was just showing Boyle Heights as the community that it is versus how East LA and Latin people from LA were shown in media at this time that like this movie had a huge hand in you know offering a counter to the really prejudiced like overly simplistic narrative that

was being shown in everything else um which is like such a big part of Josefina Lopez's work uh it's awesome it's very wholesome it is yeah for sure yeah and like yeah just think about all the movies that you see that are like set in LA about rich white people living in wealthy neighborhoods living in huge houses that basically just ignores huge swaths of the population of L.A. Yeah, there's a huge Latinx community that is not often represented in movies here in L.A. and often not represented favorably if it is represented at all. Yeah, I was just gonna say that Real Women Have Curves is markedly youthful and feminine when compared to other LA, Chicano, Mexican American films, like literally the other movies that we can compare it to in the same sort of genre or cultural space is like Blood In,

Blood Out, American Me. And then, you then you know mi familia has more of a family dynamic at the beginning but these films and then Zoot Suit and these are all iconic films Zoot Suit is a musical you know it's a piece of theater but all of these films also have a lot of violence in them there's a lot of trauma there's prison and gangs and the ethos is very masculine and it's very much like a lot of men on screen and what they're going through in their lives and then you have real women have curves with like I was on Josefina Lopez on her website and uh reading about her like about me which seems like like she wrote it, which is awesome. And she's talking about how she started writing this play when she was 18. It's so you know, and how like, yeah, and how the sensibilities of an 18 year old girl have everything to do with why the film is

everything that it is. And it's, it's, I think it feels so fresh, because it is because like such a young person wrote it. And it's feels very like, like fresh, too, because it is because like such a young person wrote it and it feels very like like fresh too because it doesn't look or feel like steeped in super trendy stuff of the time like it doesn't really look like a 2000s film I guess like it's not super stylized like their wardrobe or their makeup or their hair or the music, you know, it's like, yeah, very wholesome. And like a zoomer today who like goes thrifting might end up pulling some of the outfits that America Ferrer is wearing in Real Women Have Curves, you know, like it just feels very

like, yeah, it feels like young. I was thinking that so much of it has come back around. Oh, yeah, absolutely. I have a quote from uh mr levoux himself i just want to say his name um but yeah like speaking to you know like drew attention to the fact like this is based on josefina's experience so much is told through the soft warm humorous tone of her experience hopefully that's what you're seeing when you see the city as different from the gangs and the grittiness of other films from this time Josefina wanted to

show the city as a vibrant place where women can have full lives and grow and I feel like this movie pulls that off a million percent oh yeah yeah I want to share a quote from the director, Patricia Cardoso says, quote, I wanted to show a part of Los Angeles we don't usually see in a beautiful way, not a seedy neighborhood filled with stereotypes of East LA. It was important to expand the concept of beauty for women, but also for the city and the neighborhoods, unquote. So it's like in this vision from the director, from the writer, all comes through very clearly in very satisfying ways. I had one other behind the scenes thing I wanted to, and I know this will come in and out for the rest of the episode,

but I was happy that this article, I was so curious of like the sequence of America Ferrera lore so I guess that she had already shot gotta kick it up before she shot real women have curves and I just like I love this story it was like when she got her check from gotta kick it up she got a car and wanted to go to drama camp and like those are that's what she used her money for as like she's so great wow they wanted her to audition for this movie she was like well I'm going to drama camp so if you're still casting when I'm done at drama camp like hit me up basically and then and look hell yeah like listening to her talk about that in her 30s and she was

like that was a bold move for a 17 year old to do but uh fortunately they still wanted me to be in the movie so I love America for so much I uh was curious about like what scenes in this retrospective they would talk about and there was a fair amount of discussion around I feel like the scene that people remember best from this movie when they're in the factory at the end and they take their clothes off and they talk about their bodies and it's like this really celebratory cool moment um so I guess America Ferrera was yeah I said she was 15 I was wrong she was 17 when this movie was being shot but still it's still she's still a kid and I guess that on the day that this was being shot she decided that she didn't want to take her pants off so this was sort of this was hashed by a

few people I mean and it seems like you know 15 years later she's fine everyone's relationship is fine but at the time so the scene had been blocked. They were ready to shoot it. I think prior to the scene being shot, America Ferrero said, OK, that's OK. I'll do that. But I just wanted to share a few quotes from her because kids acting is like such a such a mire. And I she was uncomfortable during that scene.

So she says, I was 17 years old and it was only my second job i'd never had to take off my clothes in front of a 200 person crew most of them men i'm sure i was incredibly intimidated by that i remember wearing a robe between takes and as the day went on it was too much of a hassle to get the robe on and off so i was like whatever i'll stand here without the robe. But basically the crew tells this story about how she decided she wasn't comfortable taking her pants off. And then I believe the director faked getting a phone call from an HBO executive. She was like, you know, well, you know, this is a really important part of the script. We need you to do this.

And America Ferrera was like, I'm not comfortable with that. I don't want to do it anymore. And she's like, like well let me call HBO the director goes outside fakes a call so this is from George LaVue is recapping this okay so no sorry this is George LaVue making the call

LaVue cancelled now okay George LaVue harsh turn in his narrative I don't like him anymore yeah not LeVue harsh turn in his narrative I don't like him anymore yeah not LeVue not it's always LeVue though isn't it so LeVue says

I made an excuse I said let me call Colin Callender who was the head of HBO films at the time I said let me see what he wants so I took my phone outside and I pretended to call Colin I came back and said Colin said you have to do it and she said okay we'll do it I didn't know what we were going to do I couldn't imagine the movie without that scene hopefully they're happy it

happened that way then Patricia Cardoso jumps on this train and says America was mad at me the whole day it took two days to shoot that scene and she was so mad she wouldn't even look me in the eyes the next day she came running to me and said you know now i understand why it was important for the character to take off her pants can we please shoot the scene again i said no you did it perfectly america ferreira now in her 30s this is in 2017 uh kind of puts a pin on this discussion that i was like i'm mad at them personally but she says i clearly see how this film empowered others to feel seen liberated and beautiful but i was a child playing everything but a typical child more than saying oh

that's my body people watched it and said oh yes that's how my mom responds to my body. That's how my culture responds to my body. That's how the world responds to my body. For me, being a young woman going through my own journey with my body, having seen and talked, having it seen and talked about and projected upon by people watching this movie, if anything, sort of stunned me for a while, because that in and of itself sent a strong message about how I should feel about my body. And it was a much longer journey for me to get to a place where I felt Dang. Levels. Levels for sure. It's complicated. I mean, personally, I'm like, okay, production wise, I don't think that that was a very that was like a dishonest and irresponsible way to handle that yeah especially with someone who's a underage who's a minor

right right I mean she's 17 in this situation and like that was the one production thing that I learned that didn't sit super well because it's like yeah this like she's an incredible performer she's but it's I mean a teenager talking about their body on screen is so I can't imagine how excruciatingly difficult that oh yeah must have been and so to have like pressure put on top of her like you have to do this like that sucks yeah it's it's like this period of your life where IRL teenagers are still wearing T-shirts in the swimming pool and like not showing their bodies to anybody like if they feel uncomfortable. And I think what's interesting, too, is like America Ferreira, like in that quote, nowhere is she saying that she didn't like her body or she felt fat or she felt not proud of her

body or uncomfortable in her body you know what I mean it's like there's all these projections and it has so much to do with like of course it's literally the the plot and it's the movie and it's the character and it's the storyline so that's all baked in there like she's cast in this role because the main character, Ana, is a gordita. She's chubby. So she's got to look the part, you know. And then I think about the fact that like all the levels, right? Because that script was written by somebody, Josefina, who probably experienced this exact

same like type of body shaming that goes on in our families. And then those actresses being Latinas probably have all experienced something similar in their own lives. And I don't know that in their particular families or lives that just because we have this awareness in the script and in the movie that, you know, everybody is beautiful and that fat is beautiful, that those actresses when they go home, their families are not necessarily on board. Like that script is probably still there, you know? Like, that is still happening in the outside world. Yeah.

You know? So it's just, I just think about the compounded levels of it all in a movie like this. Right. Yeah. And you hear about stories where, like, a scene like this is in the script, and it calls for nudity partial nudity you know people wearing underwear it didn't feel like inappropriate or exploitative but i also like no can totally understand why a 17 year old actor when the moment comes to take your clothes off in front of 200

people no matter how safe you are it's like that's you can feel amazing about your body and be uncomfortable with that like that's yeah so that's what i was gonna say you hear stories about like some productions being like okay i know this is going to be a potentially very uncomfortable scene for the actors so we're going to take a bunch of precautions to make it as comfortable as possible and that ranges from like hiring like choreo if it's like a sex scene like a sex choreographer will basically be hired or like there will be like social workers or other kind of like mental health professionals on set or like nearby to consult with if the actors need like to consult with somebody or talk to someone there will be a reduced crew where like normally

the crew might be 200 people but on a shoot day like that you scale it way back i've heard of um like let's say the dp is a man but they will like temporarily hire a woman i mean they could have just hired a woman anyway i will but they they did say that like it it wasn't actually 200 people it was that was like, uh, I think America for air was like, um, hype, hype. What is hyperbole?

Hyperbolic. Yeah. I went to school. I swear. Uh, uh, so per Lou vu, um,

there were like dividers up so that not every member of the crew had access to the shooting of this scene. So I, I don't have the number count but I but it was like America decided she didn't want to take off her pants in front of the crew and I guess she told her director that she was like oh I don't think that the character would actually do that or all this stuff and it just I mean also I don't envy the director's position in that situation either because that's a really especially on a yeah on a like a lower budget movie that's a really really difficult position

to be put in yeah for sure but it could have been handled better she's a kid I wonder too that scene I wish that I could see it like how it was staged for the theater and for the stage because I can imagine that you know obviously on camera you see a certain you can only see so much and things are kind of far away you know and I feel like on the stage and in the theater you're much up close and personal and I can just imagine that the row of like the factory scenes and the row of sewing machines and the women sewing and the sounds and the visuals probably very striking and dynamic on stage and I'm sure that when it gets to that part about them taking off their clothes and showing off their stretch marks and their

cellulite that that's very impactful on stage and very dynamic you know in a different way than in the movie and like I wonder how it was handled even like for the stage and the taking off the clothes and the lead actress and those pieces. Because it's a scene that everybody loves. It's like a standout scene for everyone. I would love to see a stage production of this. I also didn't know that, I guessosefina lopez opened a theater in boyle heights yes that's casa 001 i want to say yeah yeah back in 2000 on first street

she has a restaurant also called casa fina oh no way on first street in mariachi plaza and then so so and mariachi plaza is featured in the movie throughout like you see it. Right. And Anna goes on her dates in Mariachi Plaza and she walks through Mariachi Plaza to catch her bus to high school. So right there on first she has her restaurant Casa Mama Casa Fina Casa Fina and then the theater down the street. Cool. That's so cool. Yeah. So that was all the behind the scenes stuff I had. Well, yeah. So let's take a break and then we'll come back and discuss the story, the movie, the characters, etc. Yeah.

Daphne Caruana Galizia was a Maltese investigative journalist who on October 16, 2017, was murdered. There are crooks everywhere you look now. The situation is desperate. My name is Manuel Delia. I am one of the hosts of Crooks Everywhere, a podcast that unhearts the plot to murder a one-woman Wikileaks. Daphne exposed the culture of crime and corruption that were turning her beloved country into a mafia state. And she paid the ultimate price. Listen to Crooks Everywhere on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. To listen to new episodes one week early and 100% ad-free, subscribe to the iHeart True Crime Plus channel,

available exclusively on Apple Podcasts. Hey everyone, Amy Robach here, along with TJ Holmes, and we have a very exciting announcement to make to all of you. We are expanding. We are now going to be coming to you Monday through Friday for a new part of our Amy and TJ franchise, if you will. The Morning Run. We're going to help listeners navigate the busy news cycle and the historic political season that the country is facing. And we're going to do this now each and every day. Wow. We have a news franchise now. I like the way you put that. We're going to be covering

all the latest news headlines for all of you. We'll have entertainment updates and we'll even give some perspective on the current events that are happening right now. And this, by the way, is in addition to our already established bi-weekly podcast that we hope you guys are tuning into as well with more in-depth conversations and interviews. So we're going to be with you Monday through Friday with Morning Run. Listen to Morning Run on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. Hey, it's Teddy Mellencamp. And Tamara Judge, better known as the Twats.

Yep, you heard that right. We're the hosts of Two Teas in a Pod. For all the housewife lovers out there, every week we break down every episode and give you our opinions. We cover it all. OC, Jersey, Beverly Hills, New York City, Dubai. As we always say, you're only as good as last week's episode. Plus, we're talking to all your favorite bravo-lebrities and not just housewives. We're putting your favorite people in the twat seat

and getting the juicy stories everybody wants to know. So join us as we stir the pot and get ourselves into some trouble. Okay, maybe a lot of trouble. It's not really trouble when it's truthful. Let's just say we can be a little twatty. Listen to Two Teas in a Pod on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And we're back okay let's get into talking about uh the the actual what happens in the movie i really liked um i know i feel like every time we see public transportation in a movie i got so excited but i really like i feel like we've covered five trillion movies where it's like New York is

kind of a character but this movie I think like LA is on is like really strutting its stuff in this one it is so beautiful and so like well done and I love that you sort of navigate the city with public transit and I just really liked it yeah yes hard to agree that is again like something you don't see when you want except for the iconic film speed 1992 could it have happened without the la metro certainly not but uh yeah i mean there's there's so much this movie is is doing as far representation goes, as far as just like, again, powerful messaging. You know, it's a predominantly Latinx cast. I love that Spanish is spoken frequently among the characters because I feel like a lot of Hollywood executives would cite that as a thing like that will make this movie too inaccessible for a mainstream

audience but it's funny too because you already had so many like okay like we had tons of star wars movies already at this time and they're speaking all kinds of different made-up alien languages like in those films but spanish is too much that is too inaccessible. Right. Like, Oh no. A language that most people in the U S speak to some degree. Can't have that. Well, not that.

Meanwhile, Elvish is, uh, making a huge comeback at this same time. All right. Cause Lord of the Rings two towers comes out the same year. There you go. I feel like the movie sometimes i feel like a movie like real women have curves especially at this time is almost like a crossover situation even though it's mexican americans like in la like her character ostensibly is like uh you know, first or second generation, like Mexican-American.

And part of why I love the bus conversation and the travel conversation is because there's this crossover that happens in L.A. It's this east side neighborhood, pass through downtown to work or to end up in Beverly Hills on the west side for school or for the dad's job. And I think that's almost like the story of the movie. It's like born here on the east side. She was taking meetings and she was on the west side,fina I'm sure a lot yeah trying to get this movie made and it's like a journey that I think like if you're an LA local like we joke about

this me and my co-host Diosa because we live I live sort of in the mid-city area which is a little more um west but it's close to downtown and Diosa lives sort of southeast and our community is sort of here west of La Brea and beyond and we hear so many people like transplant saying oh LA like I never go east of La Brea anything east of La Brea is the east side downtown is the east side Silver Lake is the east side there's this disconnect in in what LA is we've I've we've heard this so many times so anytime that we have to go to the west side and leave our little enclaves it's a thing it's a journey it's oh we're going to the west side you know so I feel like Josefina was going to the west side and in this movie they travel to the west side who it's like I mean yeah for for uh listeners who do not understand truly the grand

trek that Ana was taking to get to school every day. I was trying to do the math in my head. I'm like, that's at least an hour and a half if the bus comes on time. Because she transfers. She goes from Boyle Heights to Hollywood and Vine, from Hollywood and Vine to Beverly Hills. She's taking transfers.

Which is, yeah,'s uh the bus is here look pro but we could use some more routes could use some more routes use some more frequency because yeah sometimes you're like why am I doing a yo-yo act to get somewhere that is objectively three miles from where I'm sitting unclear look right but but but I loved that the movie took that time to show you that journey because it feels like it effortlessly communicates the class struggle that Anna is dealing with without having to like bop you over the head with it it's just like an effortless part of the story I love how it you're just told visually and also like when you see that kid jimmy come to the east side and like clearly it sounds like he's like one of the people you're talking about mala where it's

he's like what what like there's a part where he's like because she knows him from school and he goes to school in Beverly Hills so you can presume that he probably lives in Beverly Hills as well he's like Cher's little brother or something he's Elijah Wood's son he's of the Wood family for sure

yes, summering with the Wood family he's like I wanted to go to Europe with you. Things are just too easy here. You know, you're handed everything. You're handed school. You're handed a car. That's why I want to teach. And it's like, okay, you're saying this to Anna, who comes from a working class, blue collar family where most of her family works in a clothing factory where their labor is for sure being exploited because they're assembling dresses for 18 dollars yeah right to be sold at the bloomingdales that his family probably shops at like right and anna takes the bus right she's like what are you talking about i take the bus yeah And he's like, we have buses here?

Like, right. What I love about that scene is like, Ana doesn't say any of that, you know? She just like listens to him. And she's like, okay, sure, Jimmy. You know, she doesn't have to. It's so fascinating to me. She doesn't feel compelled to tell him he's wrong

or that he has it easy or that her life is so hard or well here's what she's she's on the bus she doesn't have a car it's not easy for her and i i always find those choices really fascinating of like how much anna is like sharing with him or not you know um right because i think that in in and that sex scene that they have where he's like all I'll write you, I'll call you. And she's very kind of cold and says no. Like, for what? She knows, like, this guy is for the now.

But this is not, he's not my future. And he doesn't need to know all of me. And I think that's so interesting. Yeah. And that's just, like, that just that just like felt so real to me. And just, it just shows how she is a very like multi-dimensional complex character where, you know, she has no qualms about challenging her mom, challenging her sister, you know, challenging Mrs. Glass, the owner of the clothing manufacturer like but she isn't quite so challenging to some of the things that jimmy says because he says something like uh and you know we'll talk all about like the the body and fat shaming that she experiences but he says something like you're not fat you're beautiful and you're as if those two things are mutually exclusive jimmy jimmy jimmy j Jimmy. And she doesn't challenge that,

but it's just a much more different dynamic that she has with this kid. She's this like rich white kid. She's just getting to know versus her mom who she's lived her entire life with. And that just like felt like said, you know, we all kind of switch our behavior and, you know, based on who we're interacting with. And so that just like felt very familiar relatable yeah on is just such a cool character where every time i don't know like

you can see even in that scene with jimmy i really like when she was like we're not gonna have anything to talk about in three months like don't bother blah blah like that was so cool and then but in the scene right after you do see that like there is some insecurity attached to her setting that boundary in that way where she's like well you're gonna have some like skinny white girlfriend in a couple of months anyways so like why would I the subject being like why would I emotionally invest in a Jimmy of the world and here's my question Jimmy says that he's got into teacher's college which leads me to believe he's enrolling at Columbia University she gets into Columbia University she ends up in New York is there a Real Women Have Curves sequel where she wears the red

dress in New York and they reunite somehow. Oh my gosh. Is that why there are loose ends? Well, this is becoming a, what, oh my gosh, it's becoming a To All The Boys I Loved Before style saga. Yes. Yeah.

It's a whole thing. I have to wonder. It's not too not too late yes it's 20 years later but you know i'm still waiting for that red dress payoff i'll be honest yeah yeah the other thing that i thought was interesting as it relates to the kind of class commentary is mrs glass so again she's the owner of the dress manufacturing company that Estella is a contractor of. And there's that scene where Estella, she's like at first trying to write an email to her and Anna is like, you got to go down and like talk to her.

You're never going to get anywhere with an email. So Anna goes with her, you know, ends up like advocating pretty hard, far more than Estella can but it's also like you know more is at stake for Estella so you don't you know you get why she's a bit intimidated by Mrs. Glass um but there's that moment where Mrs. Glass is like you know I I believe a woman like me should help a woman like you but I can only help you so much and basically tells her she has to pick herself up by her bootstraps yeah because she despite also being like a latina woman who

you know like saw something in estella and like that's why she wanted to help her out but she's also a capitalist who is for sure exploiting estella's labor yeah you hate to see it but that shit also does happen it does happen yeah i find the mrs glass character so fascinating because that character can be open to so many interpretations like we can create so many storylines behind her like is this like an argentinian latina with the last name glass like is she like a third gen like mexican-American who, like, went to, like, Harvard Business School. Like, who is this woman? And how did, why is she the way that she is, you know?

Right. And I love the tension there, too, with, like, you have Ana who, like, went to Beverly Hills High School and is college-bound and is very kind of, she feels like she knows a lot of things, right? And I feel like there's a lot of, like, power trips in this movie about what we know and what we don't know. So I think Ana feels like she knows a lot of things, right? And I feel like there's a lot of like power trips in this movie about what we know and what we don't know.

So I think Ana feels like among her family, she knows more things than like her mom. And her mom feels like, well, a woman knows and a mother knows. And that's her favorite saying, you know, because she's a mom, so she knows. And she's a married woman, so she knows. And Ana went to Beverly Hills High, so she knows, you know?

And so Ana thinks that she's about to help her sister out and like negotiate with this business lady. But Ana is way in over her head. And this lady is way out of her league. And Ana's actually doing more harm than good. And she thinks she's helping, you know? And so it's like, maybe there's a reason Estella has been kind of moving the way she's been moving. Because maybe Estella knows something that Anna doesn't know. Right. And I love all of that, that kind of merry-go-round. I don't think in my, I think I was so caught up in the Anna of it all in my, like, earlier viewings. Because, like, that is, like, especially if you're, like, a teen girl, you're plugging yourself into Anna like end of story I didn't think as much as I probably should have about Estella's character and on prepping for

this episode I was like kind of blown away by how much there is in Estella's character even though like I mean she's a main character but she doesn't like actually speak that much. She doesn't take a ton of like action action or because it's so honest story and the relationship between Anna and her mother is so focused on, but I really love Estella. And I don't think I like had the tools to understand what she was up against when I first saw this movie because Anna is so headstrong and like pushes back on everything and in a way that is like really cathartic and cool to see and and I think in my mind at the time I'm like well why doesn't Estella stand up for herself more and like not understanding their the dynamic there where even watching like how it's like it's clear that 10 years prior Estella was treated the way Anna's

being treated now by her mother which is I feel like represented in that scene where their mom basically says like well it's too late for Estella I'm gonna focus on Anna and it seems like Estella has put so much energy and in like her life into pleasing her mom and doing what she thinks is the right thing and trying to like meet the bar that their mom is setting that no one can ever actually reach yeah and then 10 years later be blamed for it and she's still not the mom's favorite right and then like 10 years later she's still catching shit for it And her mom has given up on her for no reason, even though Estella seems like she like is. I mean, I don't know enough about how a textile factory is run to say this for sure. But it seems like Estella is kind of like doing the bulk of the day to day stuff.

She's handling all the rent issues and the checks and like a lot of the high level stuff, but is like not appreciated by the powers that be, certainly, but also doesn't seem it seems like she's really undervalued by her own mom. Yeah. And just like seeing how that because that does. I don't know, like being Estella's age and not Anna's now, you're like that does wear on you. And of course, there's like anna has the energy to fight every battle and it's like but that changes over time and yeah i just love estella and with estella i feel like estella's underrated too because if i knew somebody who had their own

dress manufacturing business and was selling gowns to Bloomingdale's like was filling orders constantly that's a big fucking deal like that's an accomplished seamstress designer like businesswoman like that's nothing to sneeze at she's being exploited it is literally a sweatshop setting right but it's impressive when we really break it down and think about what she's doing there. And I don't think that Anna sees that. She's literally phantom threading. Like, it's also, it's like further complicated by,

so you can kind of imagine that Estella took up this business because that's what her mom did like right Carmen says that she has been sewing for 38 years and she started when she was like 13 so like you have Estella like taking in her mom you know like taking after her mom what's the expression take something footsteps following following in her mother's footsteps I was like why can't i put this sentence together it's 900 degrees is why so she's following in her mom's footsteps yeah possibly to impress her mom possibly because that's the skill her mom taught her you know there's could be any number of of reasons and um was able to open up her own factory um which i think maybe it seems to be implied that like that's

something that carmen didn't have the opportunity or the money that you need to start your own business but it's something that estella was able to do and so she started her own business and now she employs her mom so she's her mom's boss and then her mom mentions how from decades of sewing she's she's become arthritic she can't see very well and she's like not actually able to work very well because like this hard labor has has really worn on her over the years but she's ashamed by that and is not really communicating that to Estella but she tells tells it to Ana. And it's just like, there's like so many, such an interesting and complicated family dynamic. Yeah. Yeah. There's a lot of layers. And it's like, you, you have this situation where like the mother and the sister have dignity in

their work, even though it's not not ideal because that is such a step like she's a business owner she is doing deals with blooming dales and they're they have this team they're employing people right there's this scene where carmen and anna's father they're talking to each other and the father is saying she can learn a lot at columbia like she's accepted she got a scholarship she can go get educated and her mother Like she's accepted. She got a scholarship. She can go get educated. And her mother says, I can educate her. I can teach her how to sew.

I can teach her how to take care of children. I can teach her how to keep a house. She doesn't do laundry. She's my greatest disappointment. You know, she doesn't listen to me. And, you know, it's interesting because I think there's a piece there where like the mom and the sister are like, we like our lives and we are doing work and we are supporting ourselves. And this is a dignified life that's also worth living, you know. And so there's this like divide there where she's very young and she's pushing back on it and she's poo pooing it. But it's what's allowed also allowed

her to go to beverly hills high school right you know and she's had that familial support so there's that push and pull there we're like in their heart of hearts they want more for her but they know that like this is their world and for her to step out of it what does that mean about their world and them and and all of that i mean it's like and and again like that whole message is conveyed in like a single scene which is wild like the the scene when uh mr guzman comes back to the house and i did i know that this is like she's wrong for this but it did always make me laugh every time um carmen saw mr guzman coming and she's

like who is that let's get him out of here like slamming the door and george lopez's face this man yeah man looking for honor you're like that's that's her teacher uh but but yeah like that whole class tension of like and i think you see it a little bit in estella's character as well where it's it's not like mr guzman is say, like, one thing is more valuable than the other. But I think like his perspective is like, well, you sent her to this like bougie high school. Do you want her to have access to what the bougie high school was supposed to have gotten her access to and then from where Carmen and Estella are sitting and from where the whole family is sitting it makes total sense to be like well why are you telling us that the life that we have isn't enough like it feels like Ana is the only person in the room at any given

time who understands that and like understands both sides of it and we don't I guess we don't know enough about Mr. Guzman's background. Maybe he does understand this tension and his power is just kind of very limited in this situation. Because you're totally right, Marla. Like it's so wild the way that Estella is treated and like the circumstances she has to work under

because she's also, I liked that you have that detail. She's a brilliant designer. And like, I hope that you have that detail of she's a brilliant designer and like I hope that you know in the inevitable uh you know real women have curves to return of the red dress the reboot um she had an extremely curvy movie yeah yeah she has like her own like fashion house or like something like that where yes like she's so talented but it's like she's got an ig boutique right exactly it is like doing expensive custom red carpet looks yes for america ferrero question mark um but and then the movie explodes um But I thought it was interesting how like there's those moments with Estella. The moments I liked most between Anna and Estella were when Estella, I think, would sometimes internalize how various systems were failing her and her business as individual failures.

Which is, you know, how the systems want you to feel and I feel like you know even though the Mrs. Glass thing did not pan out and was that was kind of naive on Anna's part to think you could just march in and change a girl boss's mind but like Estella it seemed like had internalized a lot of shame about it and like she wasn't able to talk to people about it and you would imagine if she went to Carmen about it Carmen would give her shit about it because that is right very inherent to how Carmen treats her daughters and just like watching Estella this like brilliant business owner who should be you know in Milan or whatever like having to internalize this bullshit is it's I don't know it's like pretty subtle in the way that it's like telegraphed

in the movie but I just I don't know it just felt like this whole other element to what's going on in her life that I didn't take a lot of note on because I was America for her built and just didn't understand the world as well. Yeah, absolutely. And yet there's still so much to love about on this character too, where like, so we've been kind of dancing around the mother daughter relationship

throughout the entire discussion. So, so let's just get into it. It's a complicated relationship it's clear that carmen very much loves and cares for her daughter and is coming from a place where she thinks what she's doing what she's saying is what's best for her daughter she's not really doing anything out of like spite or malice it's just this is what she knows and she's trying to pass it along to her daughter and it's what she thinks is best for anna this often manifests as carmen policing anna's body

in two pretty major ways one is her size and the other is her sexuality and this is obviously informed by Carmen's parents and this has kind of empowered her to push back against like her mom's ideology because we constantly see that kind of tug of war of Carmen either fat shaming or slut shaming Anna and then Anna challenging it absolutely so again we have like Carmen constantly making comments about on his weight, her size. She says things like, you know, you would look beautiful if you lost weight and constant comments about her body. Yeah. And then you have on a, again, constantly challenging this and pushing back and saying things like well I happen to like myself and yeah maybe I do want to lose weight but part of me doesn't because my weight says to everybody

fuck you and she says you know how dare anybody try to tell me what I should look like or what I should be when there's so much more to me than just my weight and that's such a wonderful thing to be in a movie that is targeted to uh i mean everyone everyone should watch this movie yeah but it's like targeted to probably a younger audience um you know teens tweens so you have like this young character who's like advocating for herself and pushing back against this like harmful ideology of fat shaming and body shaming. I've been watching Dance Moms and Abby Lee Miller has sort of helped me to better understand Carmen's character. Because interesting. Yes, because Abby Lee is known for her harsh words and teaching tactics with her students, but her students also win like they sweep, right? And so

Abby Lee at one of her competitions was like, listen, I tell you the harsh truth in rehearsal, because I don't want to put you on a stage and parents and other coaches are saying nasty things about your technique and your unpointed feet in the audience, and you're getting dinged. I'm saying it so you fix it and other people are not saying it and humiliating you. And I feel like there are some older women and I know for a fact Latina mothers because my mother kind of is of this sort of mindset sometimes. Like, well, I'm your mother

and if I don't tell you, who's going to tell you? And I feel like Carmen has this sort of very, like she likes to tell cautionary tales like if you don't listen to your mother this is what's gonna happen to you I'm telling you because I'm your mother like there's that one scene where they're watching that novella and I love this title los pobres yoran mas and the girl like it doesn't listen to her mom and gets decapitated in the process trying to run off with some guy and carmen is

like that's that's what happens that's what happens when you don't listen to your mother a mother knows the right man for her daughter you know so it's like for me that's who carmen is meanwhile like poor anna's trying to write her college essay at the table she's like stop the decapitation comes up like mid essay writing yeah oh it's perfect and then there's also this um this undercurrent throughout the movie that these women in the factory are making dresses that they can't fit into because glamorous clothing is often not manufactured for larger bodies because you have pancha saying talking about a dress that estella is designing and she says something like yeah i would definitely

wear that if it would fit me parentheses it wouldn't or like you i couldn't probably find a dress that would fit me like this but that's why in real women Have Curves 2, Estella is the most famous inclusive designer in the entire world. Exactly. She's styling Lizzo. Yes. She's styling everybody. Yeah.

The script writes itself, honestly. Yeah, we don't need LeVue this time. Yeah, get him out of there. Yeah. LeBoo, more like it. More like LeP there. Yeah. Laboo, more like it. More like lapoo. Wow. Caitlin, that was too far.

No, I'm kidding. And then that's really sweet scene where you see Estella giving the dress that she made for Anna. And she says, like, I cut this specifically for your body and says like pretty dresses aren't just for skinny girls and it's just such a beautiful little like button on that through line of the movie yeah the dresses are such a double a triple whammy because it's like it costs these women money to make these dresses practically like not only can they not fit in the dresses they're making but they not fit in the dresses they're making but they can't afford the dresses they're making because they cost six hundred

dollars and the constant throughout the film is i don't think we ever see the women really get paid you know until the very end they reimburse the dad because of the loan right the the landlord is coming because she's late on rent like the dress is actually even just to work is like costing them and it's wild to see it made me so sad like and it made me I felt like a moment of like frustration with Estella I was like oh but that it's like but she's being put in an impossible position it's just and and I I feel like it the movie I guess in that moment did kind of telegraph clearly why Estella feels like this is all her fault because she's the one that has to tell her employees I can't pay you even though you're doing really really hard work like all the time and I won't turn a fan on because of dust like it's of course she feels terrible but it's like but yeah i don't know that this viewing i was estella

pilled um and the the thing about the movie too is like that ah there's so much so many questions because anna goes off to new york she's starting her stuff but remember like estella stayed behind because she had to go to the factory like the factory continues the debt is still there like the turnover that's all still that's still going on while anna's in new york right at least estella gets her own bedroom now because they were sharing a bedroom so true that is she deserves she deserves yeah she does i mean she deserves her own place we. I wanted to get back to Mom a little bit as well, because I really do think it's such a tricky role. I feel like it is such a testament to Lupe Ontiveros

for making Carmen a lovable character. Because I feel like on paper, it's tough. The things she says to her daughters can be so cutting and awful and the fact that she is able to get across like i do believe that she loves her daughters but there's all these layers of and i know that there's there's so many oh there's another fire um oh no i know there's so many layers of what Carmen is kind of projecting onto her daughters it's a lot of cultural values that she grew up with it's a generational value it's uh it's internalized shame being projected back onto her kids and there was an element of

it the closest I could get to like relating to outside of like just being body shamed by female relatives which happened in my family brutally and all the time but it almost felt like there is like this part of Carmen that wants her daughters to suffer in the same exact ways she did and like to not suffer in those it almost reminds me of like when like with this whole student loan forgiveness debate where people are like well I had to be in extreme debt for 20 years so my kids should too and it's like no that doesn't don't know what no yeah but but on a human level you can understand how you know she I mean Carmen has had to deal with shit her entire life and she was raised a very particular way and you understand how she got to where she is

in the way she views the world and also be like but you have to let your daughters you know you've got to want more for your kids you've got to want them to be able to go their own way. And it's such a difficult relationship to see play out because you, I don't know, you feel so much for everybody. But sometimes you just want to be like, Carmen, come on. Yeah. There's a piece, too, where it's like, Carmen, she is harsh and she can be mean. There's this really interesting layer there, though, where it's like sometimes like Mexican families do speak that way to each other and it can come off as harsh and mean, but it's not unbelievable and it's not unrealistic. And I feel like sometimes like, oh, it's almost like you actually can't body shame like a Latina because our families have

already been doing it for years. Like we've been hearing this stuff for our whole lives. Like people speak about our bodies in very public and specific terms. Like your body part isn't just the body part. It becomes like a stand in for your whole identity. Like we have words just to refer to you in relation to a body part. Like if you have a big butt, you don't just have a big butt you are a nalgona like that can be your nickname like if you have big chichis you can be a chichona like that's your nickname that's your title you know gordita she calls her throughout this is and i love the caption the translation because she goes this is my gordita right here and it's a this is my fatty butter right here right And this is my fatty right here. My butterball.

Butterball also in the captions. But these are actual terms that people actually call girls and women, like IRL. And so is it uncomfortable? Yeah. Are they sometimes terms of endearment? Yeah. Are they sometimes kind of cutesy names? Yeah.

But can they also be used like to cut? Also, yes. So there's also like that sort of like very subtle like line that I love that Josefina plays with with her writing. Yeah. And it works so well. And then again, the other thing that Carmen tends to do with Anna, it mostly well well part so it's like Carmen has this idea that you know a woman has to save herself quote-unquote till marriage she can't have sex until she's married and it's also her duty to get married and start raising a family and to take care of that family and to take care of her husband and she wants Anna to get married as soon as possible and you know she has that little the figurine of of San I forget which saint Antonio Saint Anthony I think so you know she's

holding out she's like and she's like I've I've lost hope that Estella will get married but now so now I have to really focus on this future for anna so that's kind of where she's coming from as far as like anna's like sexuality and like her expectations of what anna is going to do with like starting a family and that kind of stuff anna does not buy into this she's just like i'm gonna like start dating this kid jimmy for the summer she wants to have sex with him she tells him you know i feel ready she has sex on her terms which i think is an amazing thing to show on screen of like you know a young woman feeling ready to have sex for the first time and the condom scene that she buys a condom yeah everything is on her terms you know she gives consent like this this is all like loved it to see

on screen that actual sex scene when you know she's like she turns the lights back on she's like i want you to see my body this is what i look like that whole thing i thought was handled so beautifully and I don't think it's like an act of protest against her mom's ideology but it's just like what she wants to do and it's like what she's doing despite it not wanting what her mother wants for her and Anna pushes back on this and says why is a woman's virginity the only thing that matters a woman has thoughts ideas a mind of her own and so anna's like constantly advocating for like i'm more than my weight i'm more than my size i'm more than my virginity you know and

it's just like a feminist icon 18 year old anna and america ferreira like performs the hell out of those speeches i like it's so good yeah i i really and i liked that i feel like a lesser movie i don't know like this is such a case study for like women like writing and directing stories about women especially with the amount of specificity that josefina lopez does like it just works like it's amazing and i feel like a lesser story would have, because I was just like, okay, other teen movie analogs you see that, like, in a lesser movie and a lesser story, Anna would have been like, oh, this boy thinks I'm beautiful. So I'm in love with him now. And, like, all this stuff. But she, like, is very in charge of her sexuality.

I loved that they went out of the way to be like and she made sure that she was safe she protected herself because who knows what's going on with this kid jimmy but also doesn't know how condoms work which is very true of 17 year olds um and that when she was done she was like you know I don't want this to be a relationship I feel like teen movies so often put young women in the situation of like the first boy that is nice to me or finds me attractive or like sees me for who like the whatever walking down the stairs moment what's that movie that I hate she's all that yes like the first the first boy that sees me for who I really am is the love of my life and blah, blah, blah. And I was like, I live in the real world. I don't want to keep seeing you.

And like, it's just such a that happens nowhere. Like it was just so cool to see her take charge of everything. Yeah, I love to that the movie manages to be very dramatic, hilarious, hilarious, but also very dramatic. And nothing that dramatic happens plot wise. Like she graduates high school, dates a boy and goes to college, you know, like and like works with her family for the summer. It feels so cinematic, though. You know, very wholesome. But there's it's so cinematic though you know very wholesome but there's it's so cinematic and that's for me is the you know she doesn't get pregnant she doesn't go to jail no one dies of an overdose like there's no stabbings like but drama and that's the brilliance of the movie and

the writing like that's the storytelling because you're captivated and you're like feeling feelings and going through it with her and i feel like that is the drama of teen angst that's how heightened it can be she's just being a teen girl going the fuck through it and clashing with her mom yeah the movie doesn't take any shortcuts when it comes to like this is a dramatic story so someone has to die or you know like it's just like life is dramatic yeah and hilarious yeah and the movie balances both very well it's so good yeah it's chef's kiss well you said it perfectly where you're like yeah like teen girl life is everything feels like a movie.

Yeah. Yeah. Everything is teen angst, angst. And so this is, I think, just in that vein. Yeah. Teen girls, you know, struggle. They're in the trenches. It's hard. They're in the trenches 24-7.

Truly. If you're a teen girl listening, I salute you. It does get better. Eventually. It will. Eventually. Eventually. Just hold on. a teen girl listening I salute you it does get better eventually it will eventually eventually just hold on and another thing I feel like I just was so impressed and like blown away by the writing of like there's no character however small that you don't have some level of investment in because the script goes out of its way to like, you know at least something about every woman

who works with Estella. Like you get to know them over the course of the movie. Even like in, I think, again, in like a less thoughtfully written movie, it would just be like background seamstress number four, but that role like doesn't exist. You learn everyone's name, you learn a little bit about them

or at least get a taste of their personality and I feel like that just makes the payoff of this like it could have been a like I am Spartacus moment where you're like this is kind of cool but who are these people but it's like you know who who these women are and you already have gotten to know like a little bit of their history and their relationship with their co-workers throughout the movie and so it feels like oh i'm in a room full of women whose lives i know something about and now they're finally comfortable talking about their their bodies and their insecurities and their like everything and it just felt so yeah like the attention to detail is is so awesome absolutely what else what else we got going on sorry i feel like i just blacked out for a second because i inhaled so hot some hot air yeah i want to share one last quote from the creator of this property, Josefina Lopez.

So the play seems to be a bit more focused on a character being undocumented for some portion of her life and the anxiety about being undocumented and being deported. And that is a focus on the play that is eliminated from the movie. So this quote, this quote is a little bit about Josefina talking about being undocumented, just to put that into context. But Josefina says, quote, I was undocumented for 13 years. I wanted to write a play to affirm my humanity because i felt so dehumanized being undocumented i've always had issues with my weight and one of my teachers told me not in a mean way she thought i was a great actress that i had the ability to play juliet and lady macbeth but no one was going to cast me as the ingenue if I didn't lose weight, because only thin girls get the lead. Men write roles and direct the movies, so I had to adhere to those standards. Otherwise,

I'd always play the side character. I thought, okay, if I lose the weight, then I'm going to be told by casting people that I should change my name to a white name, change my hair color. If I do this, I'm going to have to give up who I am to be an actress. I refused to do that. The problem isn't that I'm undocumented, Mexican, working class, or overweight. The problem is society. Unquote.

She's the best. That sentiment feels like it comes through in this movie very well and that that's like the core of what so much of this movie is about and it's just such a positive thing for that to be out in the world hell yeah that's such a nice quote she's so cool the last thing i had this is not a criticism it was just something that I,

it's something we've talked about on the show before. And so I wanted to sort of see what y'all felt about it. I really love that this movie puts mother-daughter relationships front and center and gives them precedence. We get a few scenes with their father who seems to be a very nice,able kind of guy yeah real nice guy right but as is their grandfather I just feel like I don't know I mean I I don't even think that I

would want anything to be changed I just think that there are moments in movies that center around mothers and daughters where it's like the the dad is always like the quote-unquote nicer guy it just felt like a little I was like okay so dad when dads are mean they're scary like we're getting we're getting into scary territory with mean dad right so it's like all all the kind of baggage is rolled into Carmen and it just like I don't know I mean I didn't really feel strongly about it I just always feel like I noticed when there's a lot of movies where it's like the dad is quote-unquote the nice parent yeah yeah I would say that yes and that that certainly is a trope that we've discussed to a large extent on the show but I think it all

depends on how the movie approaches it and how the movie actually handles it in this movie it didn't feel tropey it didn't feel like it was leaning into stereotypes about uh a mom being right what is the word I'm searching for because she's like so I mean Carmen is so like contextualized and well-written and like you understand. Yeah. Why she reacts the way she does. Right. There's there's all these shows like there's like I think of like the mom on like Malcolm

in the Middle. Then there's like Everybody Loves Raymond, Debra. And I love all these characters, all these women. What's the other one? But there's a bunch, right? Like where like the mom is oh uh my wife and kids the dad is like funny goofball and then the mom's kind of kind of a bitch kind of strict always yelling high strung like he's always doing stupid things to stress her out

and i feel like in this film like carmen is like an anti-hero yeah yes we can't stand her and she sometimes because of the things she says but we still love her and i also feel like i love that anna's character is allowed to be kind of a brat like carmen's kind of a bitch and anna's kind of a brat and as much as they insist that they are different the more we see their similarities and i feel like it's so interesting the way she pits them against each other but it's like oh we're learning more about each one of them because they're the same person you know it is like another thing where it's like i want to see man i feel like we're making a strong case for a sequel i want to see what this relationship between them looks like 20 years down the line like because I I do understand like they're her parent I mean there's so much anxiety around

Anna leaving to go to college especially across the country and I feel like there's a subtext to like she's gonna change she's gonna like not be the girl that we raise and like she'll lose touch with who she is if she leaves and i would love to see that relationship examined 20 years down yes my last observation is so there is another movie about like a young woman who's just graduated from high school who who lives in california and has a difficult relationship with her mother she dates a boy and has sex for the first time and then she goes off to college across the country i also think in new york city and that movie is ladybird there's a lot of parallels here interesting and ladybird's kind of a brat and yeah yeah and like a lot of body

stuff with the mom as well body stuff you know there's class commentary in that movie as well very similar movies i would say if you like ladybird for sure check out real women have curves if you haven't seen it i think that real women have curves does it. I find it to be a more compelling movie. 15 years earlier. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Wow. I didn't make that connection. Yeah, totally. So yeah, if you liked Lady Bird, definitely check out Real Women Have Curves if you haven't seen it. Sorry, I got caught up in my own horrible Lady Bird joke, which is instead of that boy, Jimmy, Lady Bird has that boy, Timmy. Timmy Chalamet. Timmy Chalamet.

Yes. Timmy Chalamet. Most hilarious joke of all time. And on that. No, there's actually no good way to transition this. But I mean, talking about Timothee Chalamet, I do think passes the Bechdel test if that's where you're going. I don't know. What is he like?

You know, like this? Can we really vouch for him? I feel like it's still kind of a mystery. It eludes me. But, you know, it doesn't elude me whether this movie passes the Bechdel test or not. Yes, we did it. This movie super passes the Bechdel test. It's barely even worth discussing because it passes between almost any pairing of characters that aren't men.

Like we discussed before, this movie takes a lot of care to give every character in the movie, particularly the women, a name and some information about them. So really any interaction happening at the factory that isn't explicitly about marriage passes the Bechdel test. They're talking about their bodies. They're talking about school. They're talking about work. They're talking about deadlines. They're talking about taxes.

They're talking about, they're just, you know, dare I say it, being full on people and characters. The whole damn movie. Yep. And as we also touched on in the episode, this movie has just so much focus on the female characters and the relationships between female characters. And while there are, you know, there's a dad, there's the grandpa, there's a couple male cousins. Those characters are like pretty secondary or tertiary and it's really so much of a focus on the women and their relationships so still depicted with love it's not like they're

like left by the wayside but like but you know like but yes it is it is a women's movie and you know a lot of women that we don't usually get focused on, women who are working class, women who are immigrants, women who are people of color and Latinx specifically. So it's just this movie is doing so much that no other movie of its time is doing and still most movies now are not doing. So with that in mind, another perfect transition in coming. Do you mean the nipple scale?

Yes, the only perfect metric. And it is, of course, a scale of zero to five nipples based on examining the movie through an intersectional feminist lens. So... You know, given all possible factors to to consider every potential factor one might consider with regards to this movie and this rating I would give it a four hell yeah yeah I think I mean I would go like four four and a half it's I was really happy to see like especially I mean just the fact that like women wrote and directed and produced this

and like most of them are women of color like that. I feel like, I mean, yeah, still unheard of now. And it's still and it's a classic like you can't. Yeah, it's I feel like real women have curves kind of yet to be topped, except by real women have curves to coming out next year. Yes, pending. And then and then we also, you you know bequeath you the power to gift your four nipples to any character person actor production person of your choice um you

can distribute in pairs or not you know like kind of uh get creative with it oh this is so difficult because i want to give two each to just america and lupe you know just split them up half and half but i also want to give josefina two but i only have four you know what i'm gonna give lupe on tiveros two because she passed away r.i.p i'm gonna give josefina lopez two because she wrote it she's an icon and i'm gonna give america ferrer too because she wrote it. She's an icon. And I'm going to give America Ferrera one because she's the youngest and I think is still working on icon status. That's how we'll do it. I think that that was very judicious of you.

I think that was very diplomatic. Thank you. I'm going to go four and a half and I'm going to dock it the half nipple just for making America Ferrera uncomfortable when she was 17 she is a living legend and a child and i'm you know gonna i'm gonna put that one on levu no nipples for levu for me zero but outside of that i think this movie is so fucking awesome and it i mean it was doing so many things no other movies were doing. Josefina Lopez is an incredible writer. And I just love every element of this movie.

And I'm now an Estella stan for life. Hell yeah. So I'll give one nipple to Ana, one to Estella. I'll give the half to Carmen because she's doing her best. And I have love for her. Yeah. But leave Ana and Estella alone um i'll give one to pancha i loved pancha i feel like super underrated character yeah and i will give one

to i should give one to josefina lopez but i'm going to give it to josefina l Lopez playing the manager of the burger joint because that is acting scene stealer scene stealer exactly where was a major Oscar snub that year oh and then the last thing I wanted to say was I guess as of last year there's a musical being written around this so no way hopefully people are listening to this episode from the future and just saw real women have curves on broadway i feel like this would be such a good musical hell yeah i love musicals um and i love musical adaptations that aren't already disney movies so this seems like something i would love yep caitlin uh what is your rating for this flim this flim gets i would say four and a half i was going to

give it a five before i knew about the the sketchy things that were happening especially in that one in that one particular scene where america ferreira expressed discomfort and then they deceived her with like yucky but um yeah aside from that this is such a wonderful movie again a focus on women women's stories women's relationships positive latinx representation that we so rarely see in cinema especially in in this era messages of body positivity of sex positivity a focus on a working class family in los angeles a side of los angeles that we don't tend to see or that tends to be um demonized in in most media multi-generational which i feel like we haven't like explicitly but like there's just there's so much and so much is accomplished so effortlessly so effortlessly

oh my gosh i'm so bad at that word i feel like everyone has those words it takes a lot of effort for me to say effortlessly wow there we go it makes you think um so much is accomplished in a movie that is less than an hour and a half, which we were texting about. Every movie should be less than an hour and a half long. Yeah. If this movie can do what it does in an hour and a half, what's your excuse? I was about to say something flippant,

annoying. And what's your excuse? Titanic. Okay. Now that's straight up. That's the one exception. Yeah, I know.

I know. I know. I know. I'm so sorry, everyone. Who are you giving your nipples to? I'm going to give my nipples to, one to America Ferreira, one to Lupe Ontiveros,

one to Ingrid Olu, who plays Estella. I'll give one to the women who work in the clothing factory. And then my half nipple i will give to los angeles public transportation because it's called the metro prius owner wow but i mean generically told on yourself it is public transportation it is and. And I do take it sometimes. Brave. Okay. Bravely. Occasional red line user.

Wow. I love to bully people who don't use enough public transportation. But that said, you drove me to the beach yesterday. So it makes you think. It does.

It does indeed. Right. So that is Real Women Have Curves. Mala, thank you so much for being here. And yeah, where can we find you online? Plug away.

Yes. So I am on all social platforms at Mala underscore Munoz. M-U-N-O-Z is the last name. And you can listen to, I have two podcasts out. One is called Locatora radio which is uh the flagship podcast that I co-host with my co-producer diosa and then my solo show marijuanera a podcast for potheads and we're on apple apple podcast spotify all the usual places hell yeah also your stand-up fucking rules thank you so much yes and then you can follow us on twitter and instagram at bechtel cast you can subscribe to our matreon at patreon.com

slash bechtel cast which gives you two bonus episodes every month along with access to the back catalog of over 100 bonus episodes all bangers and that is all for five dollars a month oh can you imagine can you imagine barely it's actually sometimes i do reflect on the value and just i'm like wow what a deal what a steal where are we okay Okay. You can also get our merch at tpublic.com slash the Bechdel cast if you are so inclined. And with that, I mean, I think we should mention we've been shirtless this last half of the episode. I mean, am I going to put my clothes back on? We'll see. Carmen, deal with it. All right. Bye. Bye. country into a mafia state. Listen to Crooks everywhere on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. To listen to new episodes one week early and 100% ad-free, subscribe to the iHeart True

Crime Plus channel, available exclusively on Apple Podcasts. Kay hasn't heard from her sister in seven years. I have a proposal for you. Available exclusively on Apple Podcasts. or is history repeating itself? There's nothing dangerous about what you're doing. They're just dreams. Dream Sequence is a new horror thriller from Blumhouse Television, iHeartRadio, and Realm. Listen to Dream Sequence on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm Jay Shetty, and I'm the host of On Purpose. This week, I had the opportunity to speak with Dr. Andrew Huberman.

Dr. Huberman is a neuroscientist and professor at Stanford University School of Medicine, known for his research on brain function, behavior, and neuroplasticity, the brain's ability to adapt and rewire itself. The expectation on us is not perfections, being able to toggle between these different states. Listen to On Purpose with Jay Shetty

on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Trust me, you won't want to miss this one.