The Bechdel Cast - Salt of this Sea with Yasmina Tawil

Episode Date: January 23, 2025

This week, Jamie, Caitlin, and special guest Yasmina Tawil discuss Salt of This Sea (2008)! Check out linktr.ee/bechdelcast for links to Solidarity Cinema, Palestine Film Index, Palestinian Film Calendar, and Cinema Arabiyya! Follow Yasmina on Instagram at @yasmina.tawil and check out her website www.yasmina-tawil.com See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This week on the R&B Money podcast, Tank and Jay Valentine sit down with the one and only Snoop Dogg. I wanted to be here personally to come give y'all your flowers and let y'all know y'all doing an amazing job. I love the outlet. I love how y'all treat the artists that come on here. I love how y'all speak to the realization of R&B music and R&B money. Snoop Dogg on R&B Money.

Listen to this episode on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Consider this is a daily news podcast and lately, the news is about a big question. How much can one guy change? They want change. What will change look like for energy? Drill, baby drill. Schools? Take the Department of Education closer. Healthcare? Better and less for energy, schools, health care, follow coverage of a changing country on Consider This from NPR. Listen on the iHeart radio app or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to My Legacy. I'm Martin Luther King III and together with my wife, Andrea Waters King,

and our dear friends, Mark and Craig Kil wife, Andrea Waters King, and our dear friends Mark and Craig Kilburger, we explore the personal journeys that shape extraordinary lives. Join us for heartfelt conversations with remarkable guests like David Oyelowo, Mel Robbins, Martin Sheen, Dr. Sanjay Gupta, and Billy Porter. Listen to My Legacy on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is My Legacy. Calling all Yellowstone fans. Let's go to work. Join Bobby Bones on the official Yellowstone podcast for exclusive cast interviews,

behind the scenes insights, and a deep dive into the themes that have made Yellowstone a cultural phenomenon. Our family legacy is this ranch. And I protect it with my life. Listen to the official Yellowstone podcast now on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. On the Peck-Dell cast, the questions asked if movies have women in them

Are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands, or do they have individualism? The patriarchy's effin vast, start changing it with the Bechdel cast. Hello and welcome to the Bechdel cast. My name is Caitlin Durante. My name is Jamie Loftus. And this is our podcast where we take a look at your favorite movies using an intersectional feminist lens Using the Bechdel test as a jumping-off point. Wow, Caitlin. What the hell is that?

It's a media metric created by queer cartoonist Alison Bechdel sometimes called the Bechdel Wallace test. It has many variations the one that we use is variations, the one that we use is do two characters of a marginalized gender have names? Do they speak to each other? And is their conversation about something other than a man? And we like it when it's a narratively relevant conversation. Which will not be a problem with our episode today, which is why it's a jumping-off point for discussion. Because our podcast has been on for over eight years now, and Alison Bechdel I think is very kindly, politely ignored our existence for the better part of a decade. I do at this point sort of like, I'm like, I wonder if we hit 10 years, if she'll just

like pop out of the floorboards. Like I feel like she should throw us a surprise party. Is that what do you think? Yeah, I mean, we've talked for a long time about having her as a guest on, or like asking her to be. Well she ignores our emails, so it's like she also wants nothing to do with us, but she hasn't sued us.

Have we emailed her? I think we have been too scared. I think we did when the podcast started, which was, the hubris of that is just like, absurd. We're just like, Hey, we're two people ripping off your likeness. Will you do free labor for us? Like, we've grown, we've learned. I just sort of, you know, someday, someday. I have no memory of this. I thought we were always too frightened. I have to go back into the archives. I feel like we were so flagrant at the beginning

in our youth. Could be. In any case. In any case, we are here with a new episode and we're very excited. So the movie we're covering today is Salt of This Sea, a 2008 movie written and directed by Anne-Marie Jassir. And we're so excited to talk about it. And we're so excited to talk to our guest today, who is a film programmer at Brooklyn Academy of Music, the curator of Cinema Arabia. She's a former director of film programming at the Arab Film

and Media Institute. It's Yasmina Tewil. Hi. Hello and welcome. I'm so happy and excited to be here. We're delighted to have you. We're so excited you're here. Something I didn't list in your credits,

but I think is important to mention, is that you also studied at Boston University and have a degree in film. It's not a master's degree in screenwriting, which is something that I would never mention having. It's not. And I put it specifically in my email to you to make sure you knew. I'm glad you did. But that does mean statistically, all three of us have like someone has coughed in our mouths on the green line. And

I feel like that's a beautiful bonding experience. Well, thank you so much for being here and for bringing us this movie. If you're in the US and you have a library card, you should be able to watch this film on Canopy right now. That's where I believe we watched it. But I wanted to start before we get into Salt of the Sea. I mean, when you sent us, you sent us a really comprehensive list of movies that would be good for us to talk about, but so many of them were difficult to stream. So because you've been such a huge supporter and curator of Arab cinema in a country where it is just like not as easy to access Arab cinema. I want to know a little bit about

your experience in this space and what you're doing right now. Yeah, so for some context for listeners, I am Arab as one would hope. I was born in the US but my mom is from Lebanon, my dad is from Syria, and I actually didn't grow up with Arab cinema really. I know my parents had a couple of VHS tapes but it wasn't until maybe it was in high school that I watched a couple things they had, West Beirut and Caramel, which to this day are two of my absolute favorite films. But when I really started getting into it was when I started volunteering with the Arab Film and Media Institute. At the time, it was just the Arab Film Festival, and I started writing the blog for them. And I kind of got a hands-on education in Arab cinema,

particularly contemporary Arab cinema. It also led me down some paths of learning about the cinema industry in these different countries as well. And so I taught myself a lot just through that. I'd always been very proud of my heritage and was studying film. So it just kind of went hand in hand

that I would start working in that space beyond just volunteering and writing the blog. And was very honored to be brought on as the director of film programming in 2021. And then it just kind of my involvement in the Arab cinema space just kind of exploded out from there. That's great. Yeah. Well, it seems like you're like truly a fixture in the New York film scene at this point. I like to think so, yeah. And we're going to declare it here right now because we definitely have that power.

Yeah, I mean, going off of that, what is your history with this film in particular and this director's work? Yeah, so Anne-Marie Jasser is one of the most famous filmmakers from the region. And I had known about her work for a while. I can't remember when I saw this film. Well, I think it wasn't that long ago, actually. But I actually saw Anne-Marie's film Wajib first, many years ago in Beirut, and then Salt of the Sea only more recently in the last few years.

But both films made me completely fall in love with her. And she has such a way of capturing just the human experience, but the human experience that happens to be in Palestine and speaks to all the bigger sort of social and political ramifications of living under occupation in her stories. But yeah, so this film is fairly new to me, but I've been familiar with Anne-Marie's work for many, many years. Nice. Jamie, how about you?

I hadn't seen this movie before. I had seen one of Anne-Marie Jasser's more recent shorts. It was very short. I had seen one of Henry Jasser's more recent shorts. It was very short. My friend Kayvon put together a streamed Palestinian shorts presentation, I want to say, around this time last year. And there was a short she directed in, I have it up here, 2022 called From Palestine with Love. That is, it's four minutes long, but it was really, really beautiful. You should check it out if you're able, but it's basically a series of cement blocks being removed

to reveal this gorgeous beach and children playing on the beach. And yeah, so that was my experience with her work. I also, now looking at her IMDB page, realized she's directed an episode of Rami. So I have seen whatever episode she directed. I've seen every episode of that show. I think it's the one that takes place in Palestine, or maybe there's a couple that take place in Palestine. Let me check. Oh, yes, yes.

Yeah, it's from also 2022 Egyptian cigarettes. Yeah. I guess I was semi-familiar with her more recent work, but had not seen Salsa of the Sea before. And it's so, I just, I really was like blown away at the sort of ease of her writing too, and how there are so many complex things. I mean, if you're not familiar with the Israeli occupation and the plight of the Palestinian people, it is a lot of information to convey, but it's conveyed through, it's just so naturally conveyed.

And you also kind of get this, this is like a maybe dumb thing to harp on, but I was really blown away at how often we talk about on the show how forced love stories feel and how natural this one felt and how just like her writing is so effortless where even when you don't agree with that a character is doing,

you completely understand why they're doing it. And anyways, yeah, it's great. I'm excited to watch more of her work. Yeah, Caitlin. This was my first film of Anne-Marie Jazzers, and I loved it. I think this is such a moving, beautiful film, and all my notes on like the discussion part of this film and all my notes on like the discussion part of this episode is just gonna be me being like and then this scene which is really good and has this really amazing commentary it's just a really good movie I mean it's just yeah it's wonderful yeah I did when you were asking me for films I was trying to think of some of the like lighter but like high quality worth talking about films.

And I think this film is a great introduction for a lot of American audiences. But yeah, I was really listening to old episodes before this and I was like, oh, this can be a hard one to rip on. Well, just because we mostly do that on most episodes, it's just because a lot of movies are horrid. Yeah. And they make it easy for us to dump on them. But when the movie is really good, we'll be nice. It was also really interesting seeing like how well, we'll talk about it,

but like how collaboratively the story was built, where, you know, the star of the film is also a writer and is pulling from her own experience to build out her character. And I just, I'm just excited to talk about it. I love collaboration with women. This is great. You love to see it. You just love to see it.

Let's take a quick break and then we'll come back for the recap. Consider this is a daily news podcast and lately the news is about a big question. How much can one guy change? They want change. What will change look like for energy? Drill, baby drill. Schools? Take the Department of Education closer.

Healthcare? Better and less expensive. Follow coverage of a changing country. Promises made, promises kept. We're going to keep our promises. On Consider This from NPR. Listen on the iHeart radio app or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm so sick of hearing men talk about women's basketball.

If only there were a professional WNBA player with her own podcast I could listen to. Hey, this is Lexi Brown, WNBA player and professional yapper. And this is Mariah Rose. You may know me from spilling the tea on Hoops for Hotties on TikTok. And we've got a new podcast, Full Circle. Every Wednesday, we're catching you up on what's going on in women's basketball.

And not just in the WNBA, but with Athletes Unlimited, Unrivaled, and college basketball. We've got you with analysis, insight stories, and a little bit of tea. I know you guys have seen a lot of former and current basketball players telling their stories from their point of view, and I just think it's time for the girlies to tap in.

We wanna share all of the women's basketball stories that you won't see anywhere else. Tune into Full Circle, an iHeart Women's Sports Production in partnership with Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment. You can find us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of iHeartWomen Sports. Time to remind them. Yellowstone fans, step into the Yellowstone universe. Our family legacy is this ranch. And I'll protect it with my life.

Hosted by Bobby Bones, the official Yellowstone podcast takes you deeper into the franchise that's captivated millions worldwide. Action! Explore untold behind-the-scenes stories, exclusive cast interviews, and in-depth discussions about the themes and legacy of Yellowstone. You know, the first studs to settle this valley fight was all they knew.

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Welcome to My Legacy. I'm Martin Luther King III, and together with my wife, Andrea Waters King, and our dear friends, Mark and Craig Kilburger, the King the Third and together with my wife, Andrea Waters King and our dear friends Mark and Craig Kilburger We explore the personal journeys that shape extraordinary lives each week We'll sit down with inspiring figures like David Oyelowo Mel Robbins Martin Sheen. Dr. Sanjay Gupta and Billy Porter and Their plus one their ride or die as they share stories never heard before about their remarkable journey.

Listen to My Legacy on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, wherever you get your podcasts. This is My Legacy. Okay, here is the recap for Salt of This Sea. We open on images of buildings being bulldozed, people being removed from their homeland, images from the Nakba of 1948. Then we cut to the present or the present of this film, which is, you know, 2008. We meet Saraya Tahani, played by you know, 2008, we meet Saraya Tahani, played by Suheir Hamad, a Brooklyn-born Palestinian-American woman who has just arrived in the occupying genocidal state that is Israel. The Israeli officials are interrogating Saraya about why she's there, about her name, her religion, her ethnic background. They strip search her body, they rifle through her luggage, you know, just put her through this all-around

degrading experience. And finally, she's released and allowed to go onward. We learn that her grandfather was born in the Palestinian city of Yaffa before he was forcibly removed during the Nakba and displaced to Lebanon, where both of Soraya's parents were born. Her father recently passed away, which seems to be what has inspired her to take this trip. She travels to the city of Ramallah in the occupied West Bank, where she links up with her friend Corinne, who I think is in like one or two scenes and then she's gone. I know, I kept being like, where's Corinne at? But then I kind of forgot after a while because I just got into the other characters more. Well, because she goes to this restaurant, Saraya goes to a restaurant with Corinne with other people who are like rude and entitled

to the wait staff. And I was just like, if this is who Corinne's hanging out with, I don't really care much for her. And speaking of the, there's a waiter at this restaurant. And we're like, hmm, I wonder if he's going to come up again later. He's too handsome not to show back up. Young Salah Bakri.

Uh. Right, this is like one of his breakout roles, right? Yes, yes. That was something that I was so delighted the first time I saw it. I was like, look at this little baby Salah Bakri. So, like, sorry to interrupt you, Caitlin, but. No, please. Her listener, Salah Bakri, So sorry to interrupt you, Caitlin, but- No, please.

Her listener, Sulaw Bakri, is a prolific Palestinian actor. You actually may have seen him in some American works. Nothing super notable on the American- Well, actually, I take that back. The film that got the most famous in the West was The Band's Visit. He was in that. Oh, okay. But he's been in some smaller indie films from Europe and the US, and then in like every other Arab film.

He's a fantastic actor. He's an absolute sweetheart, and he is so hot. At every age too, and his father is really hot, and a great actor, and a great director as well. But they have beautiful genes in the Bakri family. Oh, and his brother too, Adams is an actor too.

So he's from like a Palestinian film family. Yes. Yeah. Cool. I was, yeah, Katelyn, I had the same thought as you when he came in frame. I was like, if that man doesn't come back, we've made a big mistake. Because whatever movie language is so man doesn't come back, we've made a big mistake. Because whatever movie language is so impressive in so many ways. But sometimes when you see someone that hot, you're like, okay, so I'm going to see this person again. Someone hot and they have a little twinkle in their eye. See you soon. Yeah, yeah. So good at the twinkle, the little look. Okay, so we perceive him as does Saraya. Then Saraya goes to a branch of the British Palestine Bank where her grandfather had an

account with 315 Palestinian pounds in 1948 money. We will learn this is the equivalent of around 15,000 US dollars. And 16 cents, I believe. And 16 cents. Yes, it's like 15,500 something something and 16 cents. This exact amount will become you'll understand why it's so important in a little bit. But she tries to, you know, withdraw this money from this account. But it turns out she can't access the account because it's no longer considered to be valid since it's from before 1948 and she's like okay that's bullshit this bank still exists so it's responsible for this money that is rightfully mine and the

bank is just kind of like shrug I don't know come back later and talk to our regional manager so Soraya goes and rents an apartment in Ramallah she returns to the bank and speaks to the like white British regional manager who basically says the same thing, that the account is invalid because the Israeli control board had claimed that her father was not a refugee, even though he was, but they deemed the whole situation such that the account was invalid and he couldn't access the money. And the bank manager is very condescending and shitty

about this whole thing. So Saraya leaves and runs into that waiter from the restaurant. This is a man named Ahmad, played by Salah Bakri. She just like gets in his car. She's like, can I go with you wherever you're going? Well, because she's kind of being like cat called and I think it's like a little bit uncomfortable and then gets in a hot man's car nearby.

Yeah. And he's like, no big deal. I'm just going to go pick up my nephew. Come along. And then she goes to his home and meets his family. They drive around a little bit. He kind of like takes her around so that she can explore her country. She tells him about her grandfather's life in Jaffa pre-Nakba. He tells her that he received a scholarship to study at a university in Canada and he's just waiting on his visa. And's like, oh I can't wait to never see another soldier again, referring to the IDF, who on their way back stops and antagonizes them. So we see

these soldiers making him strip down in the middle of the street, more degrading experiences for them. in the middle of the street, more degrading experiences for them. Then Sarai applies for a Palestinian passport. She's currently there on a two-week visa and is trying to be able to stay longer, but she is denied a passport because of, you know, restrictive red tape that Israel enforces. I have a quick question just to make sure I was like understanding what was happening at the beginning correctly. When she was going to Palestine at the very beginning, they determined that she could only be there for two weeks upon her arrival or did she know that already?

That was something I wasn't totally clear on. I don't think the movie makes it especially clear. Maybe if there's like context that you already have. She has a visa. Right. Because they asked to see the visa. So it must have, I would imagine it said two weeks. That she, yeah, and that she was going to try to get it expanded.

Yeah. OK. I just wanted to make sure I didn't miss something, because I watched it twice and I was like, is it a surprise that it's two weeks? Anyways. International travel is just confusing. It's just an absurdly short amount of time as well. Yeah.

Yeah. Well, visas are crazy and sometimes you forget when you have an American passport. I take it for granted so hard. Totally. Yeah. I can't remember. Sorry, this is an aside. I literally just watched this today and I can't remember. Does she meet with a lawyer to talk about the visa? I'm not exactly sure who she's speaking to. She's in some sort of official office. With a woman? No, it's a man. Okay, with a man. Sorry, I'm just, I'm thinking about somebody's cameo and I'm like, is this the movie or is it a movie? Nevermind. Yeah I think maybe she goes to like an office of the Palestinian Authority or something?

Because she gets advised by somebody but yeah I also wasn't clear who exactly like she was seeking out. I'm like scrubbing through the film right now to see if it's... but anyway. So Saraya and Emaad talk about living in Palestine versus leaving. They talk about how to deal with the Israeli occupying forces. They kind of butt heads about it. We can talk about like the more specifics of their conversation later if we want, but they're like not super in agreement on like how to deal with the occupation. Then Saraya tells Ahmad and his friend Marwan, who is an aspiring filmmaker. I love my favorite character, my favorite character. I love him. I love he's like, I'm down. I'm down for anything. Let's go. We're

gonna rob a bank. Let's go. Oh, you want to do a bank heist? I'm in. Yes love him. He's like, I'm down for anything. Let's go. We're gonna rob a bank. Let's go. Oh, you wanna do a bank heist? I'm in. Yes, he is my favorite character. I liked him until he decides to stay. Does he decide to stay with that Israeli woman? Yes, that is where he does lose. Yeah.

Early scenes with him though, I just appreciate it. I just love a character who is very passionate about anything and also is constantly kind of cock blocking the main couple of the movie, which is his role for the first like two thirds of the movie. And then yes, when the Israeli woman becomes involved, you're like, oh, you really had me in the first half.

But yeah, he's a treat. He is third wheeling them a bit. Yeah, I mean, many such cases, I've done that so many times where you're just like, these people want to fuck? Well, I'm here too. Too bad, I'm here. So what are we going to do? You're my only friend.

Well, I also robbed the bank, so you have to talk to me. Yeah, they had to find some way to get rid of him story wise. I guess that was the best way to do it. Yeah, they had to find some way to get rid of him story wise. And I guess that was the best way to do it. Yeah, right. Anyway, so we meet him and Soraya tells Emaud and Marwen that she wants to basically rob the bank, the one that's supposed to have her grandfather's money, though it's not really a robbery because she would just be reclaiming the money that belongs to her and her family. Marwin is in. He's like, sure. He doesn't have a single question. He's like,

this is going to be great tape. Let's go. Yeah. He's like, I'll get some good B roll out of this. So he's in, but Ahmad is out. He's like, I got my future to think about I'm going to university in Canada, I can't be robbing banks. But then, Ahmad and Soraya lose their restaurant jobs because they like protest to their boss who is not paying them. And Ahmad is particularly upset because he reveals that his visa to go to Canada was denied. And Soraya's like, well, you know, it's okay. We can apply for another visa, but it turns out this is the fourth time he's been refused. And it probably indefinitely, anytime he tries,

that would be the case. So he agrees now to participate in this heist, as long as they do it Soraya's way with guns but no bullets because they don't want to hurt anybody. So they make preparations and then Saraya, Ahmad, and Marwin go through with this you know quote-unquote bank robbery aka Saraya taking back what's rightfully hers, that like $15,572.16. Lauren Cullo Palestinian pounds would be in 2008 American money. So that's what she takes. They escape and they cross into the occupying state of Israel disguised as Jewish people with yarmulkes and

stars of David and like pro-America propaganda t-shirts. The t-shirt, the t-shirt. The whole sort of hiding their identity thing with like Salah's wearing a yarmulke with Israeli and American flags on it. Yeah, I forget what his T-shirt says, but like clearly they went to some like weird tourists. It's very like peer, peer T-shirt. I have it written down somewhere.

But yeah, it's like indicating like, we've got you Israel love, oh, America, don't worry, Israel's behind you, and there's a picture of like a fighter plane on it. It's just so fucking scary. Yeah, and they have the star of David in the car. Right, as like an air freshener. Something I really appreciated about this movie is that in terms of like indicting American culture

specifically, but just Western culture in general, it equally, which we're about to get to, but like equally is not afraid to indict Western liberalism as well in I think my favorite most infuriating moment of the movie, which we'll get to in a second, but the t-shirt was very funny. Yeah, yeah, for sure. And it works too, because IDF soldiers are dumb as rocks. Yeah, they're like, looks good to me, come on through. That's the sentence I agree with. And so these characters go to, I believe, Jerusalem. And they're able to move about more freely, because they are not in occupied land and they are being

perceived as Jewish. So no one's really giving them trouble. But still not completely safely too, which is I think another thing that's done super well, is like even when they are quote unquote in the clear, they're never quite in the clear. There's still a looming threat over them for sure. They head to the coast, they swim and frolic in the sea. Then they go to Yaffa, to the home where Sarai's grandfather lived before he was forcibly removed during the Nakba.

A young Israeli woman, she lives in this house now. She invites them in and lets them stay for a while. And she's friendly, quote unquote. And she has mugs that say things like end the occupation. And she's talking to them and saying things like, Yeah, I hate all this violence. We all just want peace, right? Oh, my God. Uh, liberal Zionists. Exactly. So as time goes on and like,

Soraya asks her what she did with her grandfather's furniture. And she wants this woman to admit that her family stole this house from Soraya's family. But this woman refuses and she calls the cops on them. So, Saraya and Ahmad leave. Like, this scene is so infuriating,

but it's so good. It's so good. And just stripping back this character that you're like, I guess if you have no knowledge of what the dynamics between these characters could be, you could be lured into this false sense of security. But the second it, and because I feel like that's a very liberal Zionist and just liberal thing to do in general is like,

oh yes, I have quote unquote the right opinion, but the second it threatens me personally, fuck you, I'm out, this is mine, and I'm calling the cops on you. Like it's just done so quickly and so effectively. And yeah. Why did my favorite character stay back with her? I don't know.

They're like flirting a little bit and they seem to be connecting, but it's just like, Marwin, come on. Like, what are you doing? She's no good. My head canon is he went undercover and he's going to bust the whole family. He's going to bust the case wide open.

And get back the house for Sariah. That would be nice. I have no proof. I just want to believe the best in him. But yeah, he kind of disappears after this. Yeah. So Eamon wants to go to, oh, I forget how to pronounce this city's name. I think it's Jaweema. There's actually, I don't know if you remember the bit with the storekeeper

where she's trying to change her pronounce, they're trying to find it. So she's trying to change her pronunciation because I think he's an Israeli shopkeeper. So she's like, maybe pronounce it differently, but she makes it like a Yo mama joke. Yes. Which is like, Oh, right. This movie came out in 2008. Right. Yo mama, I think she says at one point. Yeah. Yeah. Dweema or Dwaima. Yeah. But like the point is that the name of the city has been changed by Israel and that's why he doesn't know what they're talking about. Yes. This city is where Ahmad's family is originally from. So that's why he wants to

go there. And he and Soraya travel there. Once they figure out where it is and what it's called now, they arrive, the buildings have been abandoned, if not destroyed. They find an abandoned house to stay in. They smooch a little bit. Then they head to a nearby town to buy a mattress and some other, like, homey touches. But a cop or soldier or some occupier starts to hassle Imad when he's outside. So Saraya comes up to him and like saves him in Spanish, which makes the cop assume that they're tourists.

So he lets them go, but Imad is like, don't do that again. Like we could both end up in jail because her visa is now expired and he has no documentation that allows him to be there at all. So they go back to the abandoned house where they've kind of made camp. They stay there. They discuss possible futures of theirs.

But the next morning, an Israeli teacher who's like on a field trip with his students finds them. He spews a bunch of, you know, Zionist propaganda and says that they can't camp there because it's a national park, so they have to leave again. And then there's a moment when Emad is alone and two cops approach him. Saraya tries to save him again saying, Oh, I know him. He works at the kibbutz where I stay, but the cops continue to harass Imad and the situation escalates. And then he and Saraya are both arrested, but like

also separated. And Saraya is taken to the airport to be deported back to the US. And the movie ends much the same way that it started with Soraya being interrogated at the airport by occupiers. They ask where she's from. She says, I'm from here. I'm from Palestine and I've been here all my life. That passport you're holding in your hands, you think it might be an American passport but it's actually a Palestinian passport. And this is my home and you stole it is basically the sentiment. And that's how the movie ends. So let's take a quick break and we'll come back to discuss. Consider this is a daily news podcast and lately the news is about a big question.

How much can one guy change? They want change. What will change look like for energy? Drill, baby drill. Schools? Take the Department of Education closer. Health care? Better and less expensive.

Follow coverage of a changing country. Promises made, promises kept. We're going to keep our promises. On Consider This from NPR. Listen on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm so sick of hearing men talk about women's basketball. If only there were a professional WNBA player with her own podcast I could listen to.

Hey, this is Lexi Brown, WNBA player and professional yapper. And this is Mariah Rose. You may know me from spilling the tea on Hoops for Hotties on TikTok. And we've got a new podcast, Full Circle. Every Wednesday, we're catching you up on what's going on in women's basketball. And not just in the WNBA, but with Athletes Unlimited, Unrivaled, and college basketball. We've got you with analysis, inside stories, and a little bit of tea.

I know you guys have seen a lot of former and current basketball players telling their stories from their point of view, and I just think it's time for the girlies to tap in. We want to share all of the women's basketball stories that you won't see anywhere else. Tune in to Full Circle, an I Heart Women's sports production in partnership with Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment. You can find us on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of iHeart Women's Sports.

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This is My Legacy. And we're back. We're back. Where to begin? As upsetting as it is, I think, just like even just like in a filmmaking sense, the rug pull at the end of this movie is so devastating and so effective because again,

it's just like, it's so hard to build a love story that is genuinely of people who are so different that you're really, really rooting for and seeing this political violence and occupation separate them in a way that logistically you're like, of course that happened, but it's so devastating. It's just like, I just, the ending really got me. And I wish I saw this movie when it came out

when I was in high school, because I feel like this is like an ideal movie to show to younger people, to demonstrate the consequences. And yeah, where do we start? Well, I'll say kind of to that point, yeah, one of the reasons I picked this movie, A, I think it's incredible, I really love it, but I do, I think I mentioned it earlier,

I think it's a really good endpoint for American audiences without being one of these Arab films made for American audiences. I think it's made for everyone. And I say specifically American in part because the character of Saraya is like from New York City or from Brooklyn. Ever heard of it?

Yeah. But yeah, it tells a story in this way that is perfect for young audiences, for people. I mean, I hope kind of at this point, this is not really new to people. But for people who are learning or unlearning something, I think this is a really great way to start through film. And I actually screened this in Brooklyn last year, and I did receive that as feedback. I had

a friend who brought someone he was seeing at the time who was kind of a American liberal Zionist type person, the kind of person who's like, oh yeah, the fighting should end, everyone should live in peace and didn't understand there's more happening. It's bigger and worse and more complicated than that. And apparently he left with like a lot of new insight and empathy for the Palestinian people. So yeah. I just wanted to shout out the director a bit more, Anne-Marie Jasser, because this movie is the first feature film directed by a Palestinian woman. I'm sorry that that happened in 2008, but amazing that it happened.

I was curious, this also was, and honestly, I don't pay close enough attention to the Oscars, but I know that every country gets to submit one film to be considered for best international film at the Oscars. And this was Palestine submission to that year's Oscar Awards for the Academy Award for best foreign language film. So I wanted to just triple check sort of what films were nominated that year, because this film was submitted but not ultimately nominated. Right. And so this would have been for the 81st Academy Awards.

So for the year 2008 and there, while it was not ultimately nominated, an Israeli movie was. And that is, I think it's just worth calling out a very common occurrence in the Academy Awards. Israeli movies are very, very, very often nominated for best international film, which given liberal or not liberal US politics shouldn't be surprising, but is worth mentioning. Well, the other thing about the director is that she has so much award and festival recognition for her films, but because she's a Palestinian woman who directs movies about Arab people,

she's like not a big name in Hollywood. So she doesn't get the recognition she deserves in this film industry here in the US. But if you look at her list of accolades and awards and festival recognition, it's like so much stuff. It's just not like a Hollywood. Yeah. This is really common with Arab filmmakers across the board. Though Palestine is a particularly strong filmmaking country and some of arguably the best filmmakers

in the region come from there, not just Anne Marie Jasser but like Ilya Suleiman and Hani Abu Asad. Like speaking of like the Oscars, Ilya Suleiman had the first Palestinian film ever submitted, which was not until 2002. And Hania Bosad had the first nominated Palestinian film. But yeah, none of the three of them are highly recognized in the Western world. And sorry, this is something that frustrates me so much every day. And as a reason, I started the cinema Arabias screening series I do at Nighthawk Cinema.

I get so frustrated because so many cinephiles, movie lovers and people in the film industry have never seen an Arab film and don't know who any of the big names are. Like, Elia Suleiman should be like an auteur that you know, you know what I mean? Like that is like at every, and his films have been at all the big European film festivals and whatnot. And he has the energy of like an auteur French filmmaker. But people don't know his name and it drives me nuts. I know exactly why this is

the case, just centuries of vilification in the media and anti-Arab racism and stuff like that. Getting back to Anne-Marie, she deserves, well, do we want the approval of the Academy? Do we really care? But she deserves all the accolades, regardless. Yes, any trophy. Yeah, you're just like the award body that rewarded Green Book. Who knows? Very good point. The Academy Awards, too, don't leave a lot of space

for international cinema in general. I don't know if people know this. People don't have a lot of space for international cinema in general. I don't know if people know this. People don't have a lot of understanding of how the film industry works in general, starting with the fact that you have to submit your film to the Oscars. It's not just every film ever that gets in the running. And there's particularly screening,

very ridiculous screening roles where it has to run in a certain place for a certain amount of time. Is that right? Yeah, I think it needs a New York or maybe it's just an American run or a New York and an LA run, but it needs a proper theatrical run. It can't be a film festival. It can't be a one-off screening. And that's why sometimes you'll see a film that will just like randomly be at like a weird theater for a week in the fall Just to qualify. Yeah, but a lot of international films

Don't get that opportunity because they don't have distributors in the US and then on top of that They're more likely to be picked up by little indie distributors that don't have the money to submitting to the Oscars cost so much money. Plus, you have to run a campaign on top of that. And then yeah, it's like the one that in what's now called best international feature film category is really the one place and every country gets to submit one. Yeah. Right.

I don't know. I am I think the Academy Awards should just accept that they're like an American award body and lean into it. Sorry, tangent over. No, I mean, I think you're totally right. It just feels like if folks were truly that surprised when a non-American or English movie won best feature five years ago, then you're not a global film festival. Like, be honest with yourselves. You know? Yeah.

I was happy to see, and it makes me want to see more of Anne-Marie Jazzers movies, that this seems to be the beginning of a very fruitful collaborative relationship with her and Salah Bakri. I guess he's in all of her features, all three of them. So they're besties. I just love when someone's like, and here's my guy. He's her DiCaprio. And she includes his father in the film Wajib. The two of them play a father-son duo in the film. Very nice. The two of them play a father-son duo in the film. Very nice. That rocks. Also, I didn't make this connection till just now, but I recently saw the film Omar, another Palestinian movie from 2013. The titular character Omar is played by Adam Bakri.

Oh, his brother? Yeah, that's his brother. Who is also so hot, like ridiculously handsome. I know we were just talking about that, but I didn't put the two and two together that that's him. So now I know all the dots are connected. Very handsome family. We love a hot family. Very handsome, very talented family. I know their father directed some films. I always seen that too.

Yeah. Yeah. I don't know if Adam has directed anything, but anyway, very talented family. I also want to shout out the actor who plays Saraya. Yes. Suheer Hamad, who much like her character, her parents are Palestinian refugees. She was born in Jordan and then her family relocated to Brooklyn when she was five, I believe, and then later Staten Island.

She's a poet, an author, a political activist. She obviously acted in this movie, but she's not necessarily like an actor by trade, although you wouldn't know because she gives such a great performance in this movie. But this is kind of one of the only film roles she's done where she's like in a fiction film playing a character kind of thing. She's done like narration for other things. But she's also won a ton of awards for like her writing. Yeah, exactly. Yes. Jack of all trades. But yeah, her I mean, all of the performances in this movie are so good, which is wonderful because the movie doesn't work without them,

but I think especially the chemistry between the two main characters is so, well, I guess I'm curious what people thought of that because I'm always sort of blown away when I'm very pulled into a story, but I like this relationship so much because you're pulled into their friendship connection first. And it's so clear that they understand each other as people and the moment

that they're meeting is so important that it just makes sense that it grows into this romance because they're both so beautiful. So you're like, well, at some point you should kiss like it. so beautiful. So you're like, well, at some point, you should kiss. Like, yeah, the two hot people have to have to kiss. That's just the rules. And this movie is not afraid to make the hot people kiss. And I appreciate that. But I just really, I mean, there's so many, there's a number of conversations between them before they get together that just, I mean, I'm, yeah, I'm curious what you both felt about it, but how they're both to some extent representative of very different Palestinian experiences, you know, where Soraya wants nothing more

than to stay and she can't, and Imad wants nothing more than to leave and he can't, and they both love Palestine. That is not, that is a core thing that they agree on, but their experiences of Palestine are so different. And it's a really beautiful friendship to watch develop first, which is why when it turns into a romance and even when she's like, should I have a baby? I'm like, yeah, you probably should. More of these people be sick. Yeah, pass on those genes. More of these people. Yeah, they definitely could have gone down the route of, like, because they become friends

in such like a sudden way where like they see each other and then she like sees him in his car and she just like gets in and it's like, you're my friend now, by the way. Yeah, exactly. You know, a worse film would have been like, I get into your car and we're in love now. But they really, she gives them some time to flesh out their connection and yeah, their friendship, like you said. I think it's a great film about the representation of the diaspora experience. And that's a whole complicated thing, this longing for home, but you come from a situation of privilege compared to the people back home.

And then especially for Palestinians who are pretty effectively stuck, I don't really have much to say about it. It's a situation that I am familiar with, but my situation is much different than the Palestinian situation. I do have the ability to go back to some degree, but there's always this push and pull. And I see it a lot, especially whenever things get bad in places like Palestine or Lebanon, it creates a tension between the two people. So it's nice to see it enacted on screen like that. And I think it's an important conversation to have. Usually you see one or the other, but to see it together.

Nicole Soule-Briant Yeah, what really, the scene that really struck me is when they were discussing The scene that really struck me is when they were discussing how she wants to be there because this is her home and this is where her family's from and she feels this connection to this place even though she hasn't spent time here prior to this. She grew up in the U.S. but you know she's drawn to this place because this is where her roots are. Meanwhile, Imad is like, you know, he's disillusioned with living in this occupied place under this occupation. And the conversation they have where he's like, don't tell them the truth about why you're here. Like you should have lied and said that you're visiting Jewish friends. Because, you know, telling the truth makes their job easier and their job being like oppressing Palestinians.

And she says, well, why should I lie? All we have is the truth. All we have is our truth. And he's like, the truth never helped anyone here. Look around, they've won. Yeah, he basically is like, grow up. Yeah, open your eyes, look around you, but like I see where both of them are coming from, you know?

Right. The way the scene just plays out is in their emotions and all of that is just really impressive and moving. Yeah, I really appreciate, again, just like I feel like her writing is so specific and the performance is just elevated, but how we fully understand how all three of the main characters really feel, I love that they're all so strongly motivated to rob a bank for three very different reasons.

That is so hard, you don't get that in Ocean's Eleven, you just don't. Some people are like, I don't know, I guess I'll do it. But we know why they're there. They're all doing a common goal for a particular reason. And no one is presented as like, they're doing it for the wrong reason. This character is doing it for the right reason.

We're just given the context of why. And they all like and respect each other and work together, even when they think what the other person is doing is reckless or stupid. I feel like all three characters, but particularly Imad and Saraya both have moments where, I mean, with Imad, it's at the restaurant, with Saraya, it's at her grandfather's house,

where they cannot contain their emotion anymore because it's too much, it's too upsetting. And I feel like, again, a lesser movie would have the other characters be angry with them, but there's just such a fundamental understanding, even though their understandings and experiences in Palestine are quite different. Like, Imad doesn't need to ask why were you so mad back there, you know? And even with, I mean, the limited exposure we get to Israeli characters, and certainly didn't need to have more than we had, but I did appreciate again that the writing took care to show a gradient of villainy and not even like less so,

but like different types of prejudice. Because I do feel like just in movies in general, like liberal prejudice is not shown very often or like not shown well. Because it like if you see it you see it in like a right-wing movie and at that point you're like well what you know why am I engaging with this at all but I love her writing so much because all of it is just so organic. Yeah and the showing the liberal Zionists, I think is so important. I won't mince words, those people drive me nuts.

It's the kind of people who want there to be peace, but don't understand what causes the war, the violence, the tension. Anyway, they don't recognize their own privilege in society, kind of people who condemn Netanyahu without investigating anything further and they're really not... part of me is trying to like hold back because I don't want to be public. They're not helpful to the cause and the same goes for like the American liberals in general but if we're speaking specifically on the liberation of Palestine, like holding hands is not what's gonna free those people,

it's not what's gonna free any of us. Lylea And the way this character is handled in this like kind of just larger situation as far as liberal Zionism goes, which is like kind of represented by this one character, this Israeli woman who lives in the home that belongs to Soraya and her family, where like when they first go in, oh, she's friendly. Oh, come on in, stay as long as you'd like. Oh, what a horrible situation this is all this violence. Everyone just wants peace, right, except for our leaders. And then she says something like, Oh, your

grandfather left in 1948. That's so sad. I wish he had stayed. And it's like, you're saying that as you're living in the house that your family stole from him. So you don't wish that he stayed. You feel entitled to this stolen house. And then this like fake allyship and this whole facade of being nice and friendly starts to unravel when Saraya very rightfully says like, this is my home. It's actually for me to decide if you get to stay here. And I say that you can, but you need to acknowledge that this is a stolen house. This is my house and you stole it. And this woman cannot do it.

And she just says 911. And she calls the cops instead. Yeah. Well, which is like such a widely applicable message too, because it's like in the US, how many white families are descended from thieves? It-hmm. It's just... She has big black square on Instagram energy, where she wants to be perceived as doing the right thing, but when it comes to a personal action, she is, like, horrified to even be asked.

Like, I thought that, I don't know who the actor was, but just how flippant she was, where she was like, well, of course not. And if you try, it's not gonna work. And she's like juicing an orange, and it's just like walking past her, and it's just so, it seems like annoyed that Soraya would even ask a question. She did not expect her to be as headstrong as she is. Right, and I feel like that's so,

like it's a very liberal attitude. And now I'm projecting, cause I am like projecting this onto a lot of attitudes around the California fires right now. But you know, just the idea that like, you should be grateful I let you inside. How dare you ask me a follow-up question? How dare you ask me a valid question?

How dare you say that this is actually yours when that is the truth? And it's just like, well, the open door should have been satisfactory. And if you irritate me from here on out, I will be contacting the authorities. You're just like, sink into the ground, sink into the core of the earth. Like, it's just so, yeah. Yeah, it's great representation of allyship that is very performative and only exists as long as it's convenient for them, but they would never admit their participation and complicity in the occupation and apartheid that Israel is inflicting on the Palestinians.

And as soon as she's asked to do that, she just can't even admit that she's on stolen land and she freaks the fuck out. And yeah, that's what we see time and time again with this kind of brand of Zionism. LW also like to go back to Jamie's original point about seeing the levels of of evilness. I think this is part of the frustration I have with specifically liberal Zionists, like Netanyahu's a monster. We can all agree on that, but evil comes in all shapes and forms and it's not so... There's a spectrum. Yeah.

And real allyship and if you're going to fight alongside people, you need to learn to recognize that. And you can give people some level of grace as they learn and unlearn things, but you have to recognize at some point that they could be really nice to you, to your face, say the right things, but don't actually do the right things. Yeah. I think this movie does a really good job of showing that spectrum, where, you know,

you have a bunch of scenes where Soraya is either at the airport or at the bank or some, you know, interacting with some IOF person and they are being openly hateful and racist and antagonistic. And then you have this other version of it with this, you know, woman who's living in this stolen home. Then you have that teacher who comes in at the end who's regurgitating the Zionist lie that this land was empty and barren. We didn't steal it from anyone. It was just here waiting for us. Then you have the guy at the passport office who says that he agrees with Saraya and he's on her side, but he's still denying

her important documentation and he is helping to uphold Zionist values via bureaucracy. So we see all of these examples and different degrees of oppression and systemic racism. And I think the movie does a good job of showing that there are different versions of this, but it's all under the same umbrella of Zionism and apartheid and occupation. One of the I.O.F. or Customs agents in the airport, I can't remember exactly what they say first, but when they're asking her all these questions and they go, it's for your safety, and it's like, but you know it's not. Yeah, no.

That opening scene and also just how many times that opening scene is harking back to and seeing Saraya feel more and more empowered to be like, fuck you, I am allowed to be here. It's so frustrating to see those scenes where, you know, Saraya shows up and like, she knows what she's in for, but like, experiencing it is very different.

And I feel like, especially her and Imaad with this ongoing battle with getting his visa to Canada approved. The thing that brings them both into like, we're not going to hurt anybody, but we are going to get this money that I feel like is so frequently ignored in a lot of situations is both of them try every quote unquote, like respectable way to get this done. But the system has been designed to deny them and designed to trap them and designed to keep them apart

from either their homeland or from where they're trying to go just from freedom in general. And I do appreciate that even though it's, I mean, especially I think of like young people watching this is like, they both do everything they can in terms of like, this is young people watching this, is they both do everything they can in terms of this is how you accomplish this. But it's, you know, Eamon's fourth time being rejected to do it

in the quote unquote correct way. Sarai is doing everything she can in the two weeks she's been provided and is being shut down in this very polite shrug, sorry, nothing I can do. So when they arrive at like, we're just going to take what's ours, it's impossible not to be on their side.

Like it's just, yeah. And this is so honest to the actual situation. I assume a lot of your listenership already knows about what's going on, but there are some really great documentaries out there that just support this point. One of them being Between Two Crossings about a young woman who gets accepted into college and she lives in Gaza and she can't get through either border. And she has like all the paperwork that goes into that. And the systems are, yeah, even if someone doesn't believe

that like, if they believe that, you know, the two Palestinian territories, Gaza and the West Bank, are, you know, they're not technically under occupation, whatever, the limitations of movement and the hoops people have to jump through that they can't actually get through is really heartbreaking and it never gets less impactful when you see it on film, whether a fiction or documentary. And it's the way that Israel controls everything. They control the movement of everything

into and out of these territories, including the people. There's a really great film called 200 Meters from a couple years ago about a man who his wife has Israeli residency or whatever it's called. She's Palestinian, but she's part of the 48 and he does not. So she chooses to live in what is technically Israel because their kids can go to a better school and he lives 200 meters away on the other side and he can only get through to see them when he has a work permit. And sort of similarly to robbing the bank, has a work permit. And sort of similarly to robbing the bank, he's in a situation where his child's in the hospital. So he'll do anything possible to cross that border. But this is like, it's not some

sort of crazy fiction. It is just the actual lived reality of a lot of people. And then it goes without saying that the current reality in Gaza is a Holocaust, that as we are recording this episode, it's like the day that the ceasefire deal was announced and we're waiting to see what is actually going to be the result of that. If, you know, the occupying state that is Israel is going to honor that because they have a history of, you know, not and still bombing and massacring people. And so, yeah, just to provide context to our listeners as far as like what's going on in the world right now as we are recording this episode and discussing this movie. I feel like I keep like we keep talking so much about like the real life politics that feed into this movie,

which is so important, but I feel like part of it is because it's hard to, because we're in this moment where we're in Palestine's top of mind, it's hard to not talk about the reality. For sure. But I do, something I do love about this movie, we've talked like about a lot of the heavy stuff, but it also is so sweet and funny. And Emery does a good job at balancing that

and not just making something that could feel like tragedy porn. Yes. Yeah, like where I think, again, a less thoughtful movie, and also a movie not from a Palestinian director, would have probably harped on certain character elements, or I feel like as is so often in movies that skew towards tragedy porn,

just not really write a character, and just define sort of this void-like character by their trauma specifically. Like, they've got jokes. They're funny. Like, and I just, I don't know, I really do like the relationship between Soraya and Ahmad where Ahmad can like loosen up around her a little bit. He can have some fun with her. And that she, you know, in a way that like they're learning from each other in a way that doesn't feel

of the way that you see a lot of hetero relationships presented of like, he really showed her how the world works, but that's not how this works. I mean, a la Titanic with Jack being like, here Rose, let me show you. Exactly. Yeah, it could have 100% gone down that route. Mm-hmm.

What I especially appreciate is that their love story, I see. Yeah, it could have 100% gone down that route. What I especially appreciate is that their love story, whether it's like the platonic friendship at first, and then it, I mean, we don't even see them kiss on the lips. We like, he kind of nuzzles her and like kisses her on the neck a little bit, but yeah, there's no like big like scene where the camera's swirling around them as they kiss passionately. Yeah, capital M make capital L love. Nothing like that. No love and basketball virginity scene.

Right. I appreciate that the interpersonal romantic love story doesn't overpower the larger story, which is like a love letter to Palestine. It's like the characters loving their home and Saraya reconnecting with her homeland and like that's the real story. And then this, you know, relationship that blossoms is a fringe benefit of that and like a subplot narratively. But yeah, I like the balance of all of that. And then to the point of like, the moments of levity and joy that you see, a few that really stuck out to me were the scene where Ahmad takes Soraya to his home, and he's like, come in. And she's like, nah, it's okay. And then his mom comes out and she's like,

oh, my son's so rude. He has no tact. He didn't even invite you in. He's like, yeah, it's okay. And then his mom comes out and she's like, oh, my son's so rude. He has no tact. He didn't even invite you in. And then he's like, yeah, I did. And she's like, shut up. And then she brings Soraya inside and she's telling them like the family history of, oh, this is where my grandfather was born. This is where my parents grew up.

This is where I grew up. And the whole family is there, which I think is the whole, like it's like meeting the parents, but like the whole family's there. She's barely knows this man. Yeah, she just like talked to him for the first time earlier today. She's, you know, at this family home. And then his mom says, welcome to your country. And I was just like, oh, it like rocked me to my core. This like hearkens back to a very specific relationship, but definitely like I feel like she has been including with Imaad at this point, been made to feel like an outsider

many, many times by Israeli and Palestinian characters at this point. And it's Imaad's's mother who is the first person that is just so openly welcoming and happy that she's there. And I feel like that, she did her son a huge favor in that department of like, okay, if this is your mom, you're probably an all right guy. And yeah, even though she doesn't come back,

I just thought that that was so lovely. Because at that point, you know, we've been with Saraya feeling so confused and displaced, you know, since moment one of the movie and clearly before and just seeing someone like welcome her with open arms was so, so nice. It really was. I wanted to touch on just in terms of like the specific, cause I know it's like, it's very, it feels impossible

to not project 2025 onto this movie now. But I did want to go back to how this movie was received at the time. Because I honestly, it was like any answer wouldn't shock me. I don't know. It was, you know, over 15 years ago now. And I guess as expected, the critical reception at the time in the West was mixed in a way that I thought was like very telling. This has a rotten, rotten tomatoes rating, which makes no fucking sense. Yeah, it's ridiculous. I mean, a lot of these reviews are quite literally so old

that you can't even read them anymore. But the two reviews I was able to access were on NPR and Slant. They were both very, like basically, both of the reviews boil down to this movie is histrionic and overdramatic, which is just so absurd from the first movie directed by a Palestinian woman to receive it like that in the US is just so ridiculous. But I wanted

to specifically single out, there is a quote in the NPR interview that is just so telling of like where this film critic is coming from, where he refers to, okay, in a fit of supreme frustration, she, Saraya, convinces them to help her rob the bank for the 315 Palestinian pounds owed to her as her grandfather's heir plus more than 60 years interest. When the clumsily orchestrated heist is over, they go on the run to Tel Aviv so that she may see her grandfather's old house. It comes as no surprise when she picks a fight with the kind and sympathetic young Israeli who now owns it.

And so it's just like wrong. Yeah, I'll keep going because this this review really, really frustrated me. But I feel like does clearly put us in a moment in time in American criticism. Writer, director and Maria Gissier in her first film is determined to make important statements through her protagonists, which is what makes Saraya so uncompromising. Unfortunately, it also makes her less of a character. She often seems little more than a mouthpiece for history lessons on the injustices perpetrated on the Palestinian people. So it's just, I don't know, most of the reviews are not only expectedly written by men,

but they're written by white American men that just, I mean, I know we've talked about this on the show in the case of so many movies over the years, but this just felt like a really glaring one of just, clearly like this movie wasn't made for me, and so it's hysterical. Yeah. Yeah, I see it a lot with Arab films in general

up until this day. People think a film is bad because they don't get it because they lack context or it's not made for them. It does not hold their hand through it Like sure Soraya is hard-headed. I Would find myself sometimes being like no You're gonna get yourself in trouble with the way she would speak to people But it doesn't make her not a character like it is part of her character

It is part of her literally and you get why she's behaving that way. She's very justified. I was like an Arab too. Like I just like get nervous for her when she, because she's so outspoken and so confident that she's right. And I am so scared that someone's going to shoot her. Well, that's the thing. Like her safety is at stake in this context. And yeah, you do,

you certainly fear for her, but you also admire her for like, I there's a scene where I mean, and again, there's so many scenes where she's interfacing with someone who is like enforcing this red tape that is not allowing her to, you know, get the passport she's entitled to or get the money out of the bank that she's entitled to or, you know, do all these things. You know, it's this oppressive force that is designed to withhold things from her that she's entitled to. So all this is it. There's a bunch of scenes like that where she's always just like, what the fuck? This is bullshit. She's calling it out every step of the way. And then there was one that I especially enjoyed.

I think it's when she's crossing back into the West Bank after she went on her like shopping spree of like getting disguises for the quote unquote robbery. like getting disguises for the quote unquote robbery. And the occupier guy is like, hey, no tourists allowed, you can't go here. And she's like, well, where are you from? She's basically implying like you're a tourist. Like where's your family from?

You haven't been here this whole time. My family and my people have been here this whole time. And it's just, it's many situations like that where she's always pushing back. She's not afraid to call out injustices when she sees them, but it does make you like fearful for her safety. Yeah. I'm looking at the Rotten Tomatoes page right now and Ella Taylor for the Village Boys refers to her as a spoiled princess.

Oh my god. Yeah. Thankfully that link, if you click the link to see more, they're like, we've never heard of this review because it's so like the one pull quote, you're like, oh, okay, idiot. Yeah, it's too bad. But luckily, I think audiences, especially now can see past that. And the film has had a steering power that these Western critics couldn't suppress. So yes. Yeah, for our listeners who, if you're listening to this episode, and you haven't watched the movie, highly recommend that you do again, like Jamie said, it's very accessible, at least in the US, if you have access to Canopy, which you can get if you

have a public library card. Ever heard of that? And if you don't, you should have a library card. You should have one. Unless you live in New York City, then you don't have Canopy. Yes, I know that's one of the few places, right? Yeah. Wild. They used to, but they don't anymore. Mr. Adams said no more. I think it's predated Adams. Really? Wow. Yeah. So I'd love to put the blame on him regardless. I guess I took the path of least resistance.

If you need a canopy login, Yasmina, I got you. Yeah. I might. I should have asked you earlier because I, Canopy login, Yasminah, I got you. Yeah. I should have asked you earlier. So I will say for audience members who don't have Canopy, there are two other places to access it that are not going to give your computer a virus. Unfortunately, right now, neither of them

have English subtitles. And the film has large portions in English, but is predominantly in Arabic. That bothered me, and I'm going to see if I can figure out how we can get them some SRT files. But if you are part of Solidarity Cinema, which I highly, highly recommend, you just join a Google group, and you have access to hundreds of really amazing rare films, including Salt of the Sea. It is also on the Palestine Film Index, which is a wonderful document put together by a number of volunteers over the last year, just noting Palestinian films. Not every film on there has a direct link to watch,

but if you, the listener, are interested in exploring more Palestinian films specifically, or I should say films that deal with the Israeli occupation because some of them are also from Lebanon and Syria, that is an amazing resource, even just to find out what some of the titles and the filmmakers might be. But it also has some links to some things that are otherwise pretty rare.

But yeah, we'll see about getting some English subtitles on those things. I found it on OK.RU, but I would not recommend that. I mean, look, we've all done it. I did it last, I forget why I did it. We will link those, because yeah, I follow the Solidarity Cinema letterbox list. They have a very, very accessible presence.

So we'll link to that in the description. And I'll just say this, that I used to work in film distribution. I am all for, especially for indie filmmakers, international filmmakers, whenever you can give them the money that they deserve and rent the film or stream the film or buy the DVD, I think you should. But unfortunately, so many international films, especially older ones, are not even given that chance,

in which case resources like these are so incredibly important to basically archiving and making these films accessible. So nobody nobody say anything about piracy in the show comments, I swear to God. There's a lot of things that I, even as a film programmer, there's lots of things I would never be able to show or review myself without resources like Solidary Cinema and Palestine Film Index. Yeah, as you mentioned at the top of the episode, you provided a list of a bunch of options of movies you would like to cover with us.

And several of them just like are not available to stream anywhere. You can't buy them. There was no way. What was the name of the movie that Summer Farah also suggested that we wanted to cover with her and then we couldn't and then yes, Mina you suggested it and we still couldn't because we couldn't find it. I'm gonna guess it was Amrica. Yes, that's the one.

Yes. Well, so that film, everyone should keep an eye out for it because hopefully it'll come back soon. The director just got the rights back. Oh, wonderful. Because the thing that happens to demystify some more of the industry for listeners is films have rights holders and the best way for them to be seen in the U.S. is to have a U.S. distributor who is then the regional rights holder and those deals usually last about 10 years. So a lot of times when things suddenly disappear from the internet, it's just that the rights expired and for whatever reason that company

doesn't hold them anymore and they're probably just back with the filmmaker who doesn't have the means whether financially or just the time or the interest in getting it up on VOD platforms or whatever. Yeah, Amrica is, I think, one of those films that just the licensing ended. Or sometimes if a company goes under, it just kind of gets lost and it doesn't always easily revert back to the filmmaker. It sucks. The industry is a mess. But yeah, Amrica is an amazing film by Shereen Dabest, who has a new movie at

Sundance and also directs some television and is another Palestinian-American filmmaker to watch out for since we're talking about her. But hopefully in the future you can talk about that film. Someday, yeah. I'm also going to see if any of these movies you suggested, especially for the ones that aren't on the Palestine Film Index, or that like don't have accessibility to watch streaming. If they're available on DVD, I'll check that out because look, I love a DVD. eBay is another great resource for finding, especially if they did have US distribution at one point, which a film I suggested that I absolutely love and highly recommend is

Caramel by Nadine Labacki. I have the DVD and I think it was like Lionsgate or Sony Pictures Classic or something. But yeah, the rights must have, the contract must have ended. It happened with that and with Crossroads, famously. Oh, my gosh. Yes. Two great films. Equal quality. Definitely. Does anyone have anything else they'd like to discuss regarding Salt of the Sea? Or anything, really? Or anything? I would love to soapbox for a quick

minute. I know we're running short on time but I just you know if it hasn't come across clearly by now I'm very passionate about Arab cinema and I think a lot of people listening especially those who are from America probably don't even recognize what kind of anti-Arab biases that they hold. And I really encourage everyone to seek out international cinema in general, but consider adding some Arab cinema onto your letterbox watch list. And if you want to try to unlearn some of these biases or learn why, you know, even if you are supportive and allied, you know, not an overt racist, you might hold some biases that you don't even realize. A great resource to kind of starting to unpack how the media affects

where these come from is a book and a connected documentary called Real Bad Arabs, Real being R-E-E-L, subtitle How Hollywood Villifies a People. They're both by Jack Shaheen. I have a copy of it above me here. He's really, really incredible. And the book just goes through, I believe it's like a thousand American films and points out all of the like anti-Arab stereotypes and the documentary does it more generally talking about these things. And if anyone listening thinks that this is all a post 9-11 thing, it is not. It's been going on a really long time, specifically about Palestinians too. The sort of Arabs as terrorists trope was specifically Palestinians as terrorists for a long, long time. And I just get really frustrated when even folks I know in the industry, they'll be like, oh, you work in Arab cinema.

Oh, I love this Iranian director. And then I have to be like, Iran is Persian, that's not Arab. You've never seen an Arab film, have you? So I just, I would love if more people watched our stuff. And part of the reason I brought up some of the like comedy in the film too is because I think people are afraid of Arab cinema because it can be very, very

heavy. But there's humor, there's romance, there's horror, there's sci-fi, and I just, I think we get a bad rep. So that's what I want to say before we close out. No, thank you for saying that. It's all very true. Yeah. Somehow my Instagram has become like a landing point for a lot of people seeking out Arab cinema. So people are welcome to follow me. My handle is just yasminadat2weel. So feel free to follow me on Instagram.

But I have a couple directions to send people. They're all linked on my Instagram. But on my website, I keep a Palestinian film calendar. It's specifically for New York City, but I do include limited online screenings that are available throughout the US from different sites and festivals and stuff like that. And on that page, I have a list of resources of other places to explore and learn about Palestinian cinema specifically. So even if you're not in New York City and can't come to any of the in-person screenings listed,

it's a great jumping off point. If you are in New York City, I also do a screening series called Cinema Arabia. It's every other month at the Nighthawk Cinema in Williamsburg. There's a Cinema Arabia Instagram as well that you can follow to keep up with it. And that series specifically is to highlight lesser known or lesser shown Arab films that

I think deserve more attention and hopefully sort of challenge and excite the curious cinephile. But also too, there is the Arab Film and Media Institute, the Arab American National Museum, MSNA and Arte East, which are like four of the big Arab film and cultural organizations here in the US. So I would check any of them out, though I'm not personally associated with any of them anymore, but they're

all really great places to go. And then, oh, and then one more thing to promote. I no longer specifically program in Arab cinema. I am the new film programmer at BAM, so you will be seeing more for anyone in the New York City area. You will be seeing more Arab cinema in the BAM lineup, but not exclusively. My first program I will plug is at the end last week of February, and it is dedicated to counterculture pioneers from the Middle East. So if you want to learn about the first hip-hop group in Palestine, or the first all-female thrash metal band from Lebanon or the first professional skateboarder from Morocco. That'll be the last week in February. And then in general, I encourage you to come see some movies at the Brooklyn Academy of

Music. This is wonderful. I mean, because it's frustrating on our end to have so many great options for movies to want to cover and then have to kind of go with. I mean, we lucked out here because Salto de Silla is incredible, but for the access to be so limited is frustrating. It's very frustrating. Yeah. I mean, I can't imagine like what your day to day is like, but I'm so I'm so grateful that you are doing so much of the work to make Arab cinema more accessible. And we will continue to share. However, we can be supportive of your work is what we'd love to do.

I appreciate it. And if you ever want to talk about non-Arab cinema, I'm also down. Yeah, come back. Talk about whatever you want. Whatever your favorite movies are. We're down for anything. We can talk about my favorite film of 2024, which is the kneecap movie. Oh my God, that movie was so good. Oh, Caitlin's. I haven't seen it. Caitlin's side. Yeah. It rocks. It was so great. A movie that does not pass the Bechtel test. But you know what movie does pass the Bechtel test? Salt of this Sea. It is mostly the conversation between

Soraya and the Israeli women. I mean, she does talk to her friend, Corinne, and she talks to Imad's mom. But this is an example of a movie where it's like even if it doesn't handily pass or even if some of the conversations that pass are like contentious, difficult conversations, as we've always said, the test is a jumping off point and there is much else to discuss. So to me the more relevant metric is the nipple scale, obviously, the famous Bechtel cast nipple scale where we rate the movie zero to five nipples based on examining it through an intersectional feminist lens. I think this is such an important and moving movie. Wow. Whoa. Watch out, world. I'm a poet. Oh, whoa, watch out world. I'm a poet. I think this is just so terrifically done. And I think the way

Saraya the character is represented in her journey of reconnecting with her homeland and advocating for herself and advocating for her people. And the story just like being a love letter to Palestine and the connection she makes along the way and the things she has to deal with along the way. Like everything about this narrative is just so poignant and beautiful and heart wrenching and just so well done. I feel like I don't know why I wouldn't give it five nipples. But what about Marwan? Well, yeah.

Okay, that was something I wanted to talk about because Marwan, and I'm a Marwan truther. I love that guy. I want to see his film. He reminded me of whatever. I was a middle schooler who was really into rent and he reminded me a lot of Mark from Rent where you're like he's making a movie. Is it good? We're not sure, but he's really into it. And I love a

character like that. I do wish, I mean, just because it seems like we're introduced to Corinne, I think, who's like a potential friend for Soraya at the beginning, but then she really only does seem to come into contact with men for the remainder of the story outside of this horrible Israeli woman. I just like, if I could be so nitpicky, I would love if we just adjusted Marwinder a little bit and both, you know, I don't feel like it's like, it's not a gender specific character. I would love to see like, especially coming in, you know, in the first widely distributed film by a Palestinian woman, see a woman filmmaker and maybe not have her cozy

up with the Israeli antagonist that the guy from NPR loved. That's my hyper, that's my little, little thing. As I wish that there had been more, even though we see women allies for Saraya, we don't really get to know any of them. I mean, even like getting to know the mother better who made her feel so welcome. It felt like a lot of the women characters

who weren't Saraya were a little bit like very in and out of the story, but that's very nitpicky I do think it was like a little weird the way Corinne is introduced and then never seen again Where was her deal? In the bank when they're taking the money back We like get a cut to this woman who looked just like her but I'm like I don't know if that's her or if I just like am having a facial recognition problem. I don't remember, but it could have been a little Easter egg

because Saraya is completely covered in an abaya so she wouldn't have recognized her. And that could have been a fun poke by the director to be like someone she knows who could rat her out effectively. Who could recognize her, who doesn't, right. That would have been fun, yeah. I think that's the intention.

I think we cut to like a shot of Corinne. I think, I don't know. Corinne is in and out so fast. You could show me a picture of her right now and I would have no idea who she was. Yeah, like there's not not sure what her deal is, but best of luck or goodbye. Yeah, it just seemed like so weird to introduce what was set up to be an important character and then she just never shows up again.

So, but it is nitpicky because ultimately I think the story doesn't necessarily need Corinne. No, no. Right, I think even so, yeah, I'm gonna stick with Five Nipples. I think this is just such an important movie. Recommend everyone watch it. And yeah, Five Nipples, I'll give them to Anne-Marie Jesser and Sarai the character

as well as Suheer Hamad, the actor. I'll go four and a half off of our, our, our research discussion. But I mean, even with, I mean, I think Soraya is such a strong central character. I love that she pulls both from the actor's experience and from the writing and directing ability. And I just, I don't know, I, I, I love this movie. I really wish slash hope. I feel like this is the kind of movie

that should be shown in like schools. And I mean this in the most positive way. It reminds me of the kinds of movies you would watch in history class, but it's an area of history that American public schools take no interest in whatsoever. But I think it would really resonate. I mean, and like you were saying earlier, Yas I think it would really resonate. I mean,

and like you were saying earlier, Yasmino, it can resonate with everyone, but I think also does a very subtle and thoughtful job of just illustrating an everyday person's predicament. So yeah, I think it's wonderful. I'll go four and a half nipples. I guess I'm gonna give three to Anne-Marie Jasser. Gosh, really difficult decisions to make here. I will give one to Saphir Hamad. I will give one to oh my gosh, wait, where is he? This Wikipedia page, for what it's worth, sucks. They don't even have a cast list. And I'm just like, how am I supposed to- I will say I was like trying to look up the character, the Israeli woman's name, and I could not figure it out.

I don't think she listed- Not a trace. Like on IMDB. Yeah. They've got like, even on like, you know, the way like Google will show you like the top cast when you look up a film, they have like the cat collar before they have her. Okay, I've got one, my fourth will go to Sal Abakri and then my last half nipples, I think I wanted to bring up a while ago, one of my favorite movie tropes in the world, someone wearing a t shirt with just the name of where they came from. So I'm going to give my last half nipple to Soraya's shirt that just says Brooklyn. I love that movie tropes so much.

Between that and her accent, there is no question. You're like, we get it. She's from Brooklyn. Yasmin, how about you? I would also give it four and a half nipples for the same reasoning Jamie had. So disappointed in Marwan mostly. I wish. I think he deserved better. But yeah, I would like to give them all to Silla.

That's it. Maybe to the whole Bakri family, even the ones who are not in it. Sorry, this is not very Bechtel cast of me to give it all to men. But I feel- To men? To multiple generations of men.

This did make me want to see her most recent feature with Silla Bakri and his father though. I mean, like it just- That one is- It sounds great. Truly impossible to find online. her most recent feature with Salah Bakri and his father though. I mean, like it just sounds great. That one is truly impossible to find online. If I find a copy, I'll send it to you. But yeah, let us know. It's been kind of heartbreaking because her other films have been on and off accessible, but that one, I don't know what the deal is. So damn. Yeah. Keep us posted. And thank you so much for coming on the show. Like this. This has

been so wonderful. Thanks for having me. Of course. I've been I've been waiting for the call. So I'm so delighted to be here. It's here. Where can listeners follow you online and follow your work? Yeah. So my handles on everything are my name, Yasmina Tewil. My website is yasmina-tewil.com. It has all the events that I have coming up, whether it's through BAM or Nighthawk or somewhere else as well as the Palestinian film calendar. I think that's it. Or you know, I don't know, go to the BAM website.

Look at what's coming up next. Yeah, if you live in New York, go to the screenings. And we'll book you the next time we're there. Yeah, we will. Yes, please. You can follow us on Instagram at Bechtelcast. You can subscribe to our matri on where you get two bonus episodes every month plus access to the back catalog all for

$5 a month at patreon.com slash Bechtelcast. If you haven't gotten tickets, you can, we still have tickets available to our San Francisco show next week, January 23rd, where we'll be talking about Titanic, ever heard of it. And yeah, get our birch at teapublic.com slash the Bechtelcast if you're so inclined. With that, let's rob a bank. Let's rob a bank. Yeah, take back what's ours. Exactly.

Yeah. Bye. Bye. The Bechtel cast is a production of I Heart Media hosted by Caitlin Durante and Jamie Loftus, produced by Sophie Lichterman, edited by Mo Laborde. Our theme song was composed by Mike Kaplan with vocals by Catherine Voskrasensky.

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