The Bechdel Cast - Sex and the City (The Movie) with Megan Gailey

Episode Date: September 12, 2019

Caitlin, Jamie, and special guest Megan Gailey drink cosmos and talk about sex, the city, and Sex and the City (the movie).(This episode contains spoilers)For Bechdel bonuses, sign up for our Patreon at patreon.com/bechdelcast.Follow @megangailey on Twitter. While you're there, you should also follow @BechdelCast, @caitlindurante and @jamieloftusHELP Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Daphne Caruana Galizia was a Maltese investigative journalist who on October 16th 2017 was assassinated. Crooks Everywhere unearthed the plot to murder a one-woman WikiLeaks. She exposed the culture of crime and corruption that were turning her beloved country into a mafia state. Listen to Crooks Everywhere on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, you're just starting your career. That's where we come in. Think of us as your work besties you can turn to for advice. And if we don't know the answer, we bring in people who do, like negotiation expert Maury Tahiripour. If you start thinking about negotiations as just a conversation, then I think it sort of eases us a little bit. Listen to Let's Talk Offline on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, everybody. This is Matt Rogers. And Bowen Yang. We've got some exciting news for you.

You know we're always bringing you the best guests, right? Well, this week we're taking it to the next level. The one, the only, Katherine Hahn is joining us on Lost Culture East. That's right. The queen of comedy herself. Get ready for a conversation that's as hilarious as it is insightful. Tune in for all the laughs, the stories,

and of course, the culture. Don't miss Katherine Hahn on Lost Culture East. Okay. All their discussions, just boyfriends and husbands, or do they have individualism? The patriarch, except for the best, start changing it with the Bechdel cast. What's up? Welcome to the Bechdel cast. Welcome to the Bechdel cast. Thank you so much for being here. Thank you for being here. We're psyched to have you. Yeah. If you're not familiar, well, first of all, by round of applause, who has listened to our show before?

Wow. Some enthusiastic applause. And clap a hesitant hoot in the night if you have not heard it. It's okay. Okay. So you were brought

by a friend. Very good. Dragged. Love it. Incredible. Thanks for coming. All right coming all right thank you so for you we will explain what our show is we take a different movie every episode we examine it through the lens of how does it treat women and unfortunately nearly every movie fucks it up and uh as we'll talk about tonight, sometimes even movies made for women. Incredible.

So we use the Bechdel test as a jumping off point for discussion. If you don't know what that is, it is a media metric invented by cartoonist Alison Bechdel in which two female identifying characters must talk to each other about something other than a man for at least two lines of dialogue. Yep.

Should we try it out? Try it out. Okay. Hey, Jamie. What's up, Caitlin? Oh, it shouldn't be this hard. It shouldn't be this hard. It shouldn't be this hard. I agree.

I'm trying to think of something relevant to the movie we're discussing tonight. Unfortunately, there are no memorable quotes or anything good about it. No, no, no. You remember the part where she says, I like shoe. That's my favorite part. Okay. Do you like shoes, Jamie? Nope.

Me either. I should, but I just wear the same pair until they smell. And that passes the Bechdel test. Man, I am genuinely very excited. We're talking about Sex and the City, the movie, which is critical because there is so much universe to explore. We're talking about the movie, 08, Year of My First Kiss. Wow.

Big year for me. That was the year I graduated college. So also a big year for me. But who won? Difficult to say which was the larger accomplishment because I really hung in there and waited. True. I'm so excited for our guest to come out

because I just feel like it's going to be a lively-ass discussion. Oh, indeed. Let's bring her out. She's a comedian. She is the co-host of Crooked Media's Hysteria, and she has a Comedy Central half hour. Give it up for Megan Gailey. Hi. Welcome.

I know that this is visual. I'm about to riff visually and people listening won't be able to hear it or see it. But I did dress in a way that I thought the ladies would appreciate. I agree. I think that the whole ensemble would be very Carrie-approved.

I know. My jean jacket's from Madewell, and that's pretty embarrassing. That's what Miranda would buy, but I'll take it off, so then I feel better. I feel more like a Charlotte now. Oh, yeah. I see it. Wait.

How do you identify sex in the city-wise? I identify as a Charlotte in the streets and a Samantha in the sheets. Wow. Okay. And everyone here is like, we don't really even know what that means. It means I like to dress preppy and fuck a lot. Congratulations. Thank you.

Well, now I'm getting married, so I can only fuck one person. But you'll still fuck a lot. Yeah. Honestly, you fuck less. I do feel like now that it's down to one person,

my fucking has dipped a bit. Jamie, how do you identify? I honestly don't know. I was struggling. I don't, do you have an opinion

either way? About you or about myself? About me, I was, I don't know. I was struggling. I was like, I don't know. I was struggling. I was like, I don't know.

I just look at this movie and I'm like, why cast Chris Noth when you could cast Alfred Molina? That's all I see when I see this movie. Yeah, I don't think you fit the mold totally of anyone. And I hope you take that as a compliment. I personally... One of their baristas. That's all I identify. I think a lot of people feel that as a compliment. I personally... One of their baristas. That's how I identify.

I think a lot of people feel that way, though. Yeah, I feel like I would serve them food and talk shit about them when they leave. Yeah. That's what I think. I identify, I think, most as Raphael from Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. That's how I...

That's my Sex and the City character. Because they're the same if you think about it. Megan, thanks for being here, first of all. Thank you for having me. What is your history, your relationship with this movie

and then kind of just the franchise as a whole? The extended universe. You know, Sex and the City started when I was probably in middle school, so it was a little bit before what maybe I should have been watching maturity-wise, but I did start watching it.

And I can remember my mom letting me have people over, girls over to watch the finale my senior year of high school. That's so nice. And I cried. And, I mean, I grew up in the Midwest, and so sort of seeing this truly fictional depiction of New York City was really exciting and glamorous to me. And then when the movie came out, I got to go to what was like a private screening in Indianapolis. Wow.

The Indianapolis premiere, 2 p.m. on a Sunday. Not even the day the movie premiered. Like one of the radio stations like gave out tickets or something and my friend was an intern there. And so we got to go and watching it in the theater with a group of Midwestern white women was truly insane. I mean hooting and hollering and laughing. And even at the time, I remember being like, that wasn't a joke. Just everyone was having so many reactions. And it was a really great way to see it.

It's the same way I saw Girl Strip too. I was so high and so drunk when I saw Girl Strip. And people were like, that movie's bad. And I'm like, I haven't revisited it, but when I saw it, loved it. So I think part of the experience when I saw it the first time was so great. But now, you know, it's

on TV, it's on E all the time. So you can pop in and out. I almost was like, oh, I need to rewatch it for this. And I was like, I know. I know it. You know, like, I don't need to be doing my homework. I wrote the homework.

So I feel well versed in it. And it definitely got me through some tough times. Oh, wow. Jamie, how about you? I don't have much of, I think I've seen, I definitely wasn't allowed to watch it when it first came on and then I just we didn't have HBO because we were quite poor

HBO was not a thing in my home also we didn't talk about or look at nipples so HBO was also ideologically not a thing in my home I've seen probably probably between 10 and 15 episodes of this show over the years, but my mom

weirdly got... Oh, there's so much happening. My mom got really into Sex and the City when I was a senior in high school, which was too late. And I remember she came up to me like my senior year of high school

and she was like, Jamie, do you wax? Like she was not like super familiar with the concept or like, and she was like, are you doing it behind my back? And I was like, no, we are a full bush family. And I was like, we don't have HBO and we're a full bush family. And she was like, oh, thank God. And we're a full bush family and she was like oh thank

god and then two years later she's like i did it i hated it and it was so that's really my entire experience i'd never seen this movie okay yeah what's yours uh i would watch this show periodically on tbs because a friend of mine when i was a freshman in college loved it and would play it and I would be in her room and had no choice but to consume it. Fun. Yes. Then I saw the movie because my best friend JT

played it all the time in the apartment we lived in together in Boston. He's a big fan? He's a big fan. I will not hesitate to say that I hate sex in the city. I hate it so much. But I am so excited to talk about it on this show. I feel the way about sex in the city the way I feel about sex and cities,

which is basically neutral. Okay. Could take them, could leave them. Sure. I do have to them, could leave them. Sure. I do have to say, I want to clarify, I'm not one of those people who's like, this is my identity. Okay, sure.

People during this time that were like, listen, I only drink Cosmos, and I've never owned a poster. I would not refer to myself out in the general public as a Samantha slash Charlotte. But when asked point blank I have answers and anecdotes for every single thing. Great.

Perfect. I like that the full spectrum is represented on stage. Indeed. The full spectrum of Caucasian woman attitudes towards Sex and the City is represented. Well I like how this movie Sex and the City's idea of diversity

is a red-headed woman, a brown-haired woman, a blonde woman, and a dirty blonde woman. And a black assistant. Yeah, Jennifer Hudson in a role that could be removed from the movie and change nothing.

Brave. Incredible. Oh, Jennifer Hudson. Should I just dive into the recap? Yeah, so I guess, can we just sort of establish how the TV series ends? Because I do fully believe just based on what I know about the series

that the first movie seems to undo everything that was cool about the series and that was interesting about the series. Because it ends with Carrie deciding that she is going to be with no one, with herself, right? That she's chosen Carrie. I mean, we can't ever really know what Carrie wants

because she's so fucking annoying. She's definitely like, I don't want to be with this ballerina who's pretending to be an artist for the sake of the show. So she's going like, I don't want to be with this ballerina who's pretending to be an artist for the sake of the show. So she's going to leave Paris. But like, she is going to be with Big.

Really? But she doesn't end up with anyone at the end of the series, right? I think she does. Yeah, no, I think Big goes to Paris and gets her. Wait, is that really? Yeah.

Okay, well, I guess I hated it from the beginning. No, as you were saying it, I was like, was I drunk in high school? Like, no, Big goes and gets her, and then the movie sort of picks up. Were that years after that?

Yeah, a few years. Like, what have they been up to? Well, this is even worse than I thought. This is just awful. Yeah. Oh, we're getting a new mic. Oh, good. Oh, wow.

Give it up for Jeff guys wow clear as a bell alright yeah let's talk about the movie alright so the recap well thankfully the beginning of this movie recaps the highlights of the show which was very helpful for me

there's clips I like watching a movie alone that you know is doing fan service that you don't really understand. You're like, oh, someone is really enjoying this somewhere. So there are four main characters, obviously. We've got Charlotte, and her husband is Harry? Is that right? Yes.

Mr. Bald. Mr. Big, Mr. Bald. She had a husband during the series named Trey. Okay. But he had erectile dysfunction and a mean mom. Oh. So they got a divorce. Classic Trey.

So she and Harry are married, and they've adopted a baby from China. Lily. Miranda has moved to Brooklyn with her husband Steve and their son Brady. So far so good. Samantha loves sex. Did you know? She's dating like a younger hottie actor. Smith Garrett. Is that his name? Jared? Any man with two first names I cannot trust. And then Carrie has had this on again,

off again relationship with Big and right now they're on. Do you think his name is Jarrett Smith and he just doesn't know? Well,

isn't there a whole thing where like she meets him and his name is like something stupid and then she's like, no, I'm gonna fix you.

Your name is Smith Jarrett. Oh, she renamed him. She made him a big star. Okay. I did watch that episode.. Your name is Smith Jared. Oh, she renamed him. She made him a big star. Okay. I did watch that episode. Oh, good. Brag. So we flash forward to the present

where the movie picks up. Carrie and Big are looking for apartments in New York City. Ever heard of it? And that is exactly how the movie Rosemary's Baby starts. Just saying. I thought of that too.

And I'm like, oh no, they're going to go into a too big apartment and then things will start to go wrong. And that's what happens. And it kind of happens. They don't find out about their neighbors. The devil, as it turns out. Basically.

Basically. So they find this expensive penthouse that Carrie falls in love with. Pre-war. Pre-war. They say that so much. It's like, which war? And Chris Noth is really turning in

one of the worst performances of the century in this movie. He keeps turning to her with this shit-eating grin and is like, yeah, I got a lot of money. Well, because there is sort of like off-camera, behind-the-scenes things happening. Kim Cattrall and Sarah Jessica Parker hate each other. I love it. Hate each other and that's why it

kind of took so long for the movie to happen. Most recently there was so there's a second one. We won't get into that. I cannot even defend that one. There was going to be a third one. Kim Cattrall's brother died and Sarah Jessica Parker commented like on her

Instagram like I'm so sorry I'm thinking about you and Kim Cattrall was like go fuck yourself I don't need you and neither does my dead brother and then everyone was like I guess the third movie's not happening so there is

like this you're watching it and like we know this so you're watching the movie being like these people're watching it and like we know this so you're watching the movie being like these people hate each other and you know it's over money and sort of fame maybe that's why I liked it so much just having co-workers have to be together that don't like each other

behind the scenes drama truly does sustain me in many ways is there anything for Noth Heads was he in a fight with anyone no but i did see him on the street once in new york and i was high and i was like i don't know if i should say anything i don't know if i should say anything because he was so handsome and i just when yes when we were shoulder to shoulder and he was carrying a briefcase and it's like where are you going uh what do you have in there scripts of the good wife like

what business meeting do you have we got shoulder tos of the good wife? Like what business meeting do you have? We got shoulder to shoulder and I turned to him and I said you're great and he looked at me and he goes thanks kid.

Oh. That's what he calls Carrie. I like that. And like the thing is he didn't like me. He didn't want to be talking to me but I was like

thanks for like giving me what I wanted. What I needed. I promise I won't interrupt anymore after this. I do have a quick Chris Noth, Alfred Molina crossover anecdote. Oh, please. Okay.

So on my old Twitter account before I got frozen, I once tweeted, just so everyone knows, Chris Noth is the poor man's Alfred Molina. This was years ago. Yeah. Apparently, both Chris Noth, because I didn't tag anyone. I'm not tacky like that. I just, it was a general thought. And apparently, both Chris Noth and Alfred Molina regularly search their own names on Twitter.

Because they both replied with compliments to each other. Oh, wow. Where Alfred, sorry, Freddie, my friend, replied saying, I think Chris Noth is the best Chris Noth he can be. It was kind of passive aggressive. And then Chris Noth was like, thanks buddy, I loved you in Spider-Man 2. It was so nice.

And then, if I recall, you then tweeted back at Alfred Molina and you were like, please come on the Bechtelcast. And then sure enough, two years later, he did do that. so that's nice what great thank you for the snap thank you very much someone snapped and it was beautiful yep so okay uh we've so they're looking for apartments they find this expensive one and big is like i got this yeah and carrie is trying to figure out what to do with her apartment.

She's considering selling it, but she's worried what might happen if she and Big split up again. Because they have like 500 times at this point? A lot, I guess. So they're not married, so she would have no legal rights to this property because he bought the whole thing.

So he's like, okay, let's get married. And she's like, okay, cool. Let's do that. And then they start planning the wedding. She gets featured in Vogue. There's a whole photo shoot. Candace Bergen is in it for 45 seconds. And then she's like, you're old.

And you're just like, no, Candace Bergen, you're old. But no one says that. And then the scene's over. And she is given a dress by vivian westwood who i guess is a fancy designer but i'm too poor to know that gwen stefani says her name in a song oh no kidding so you know she is cool then we get some subplots that take up time. There is some tension between Miranda and her husband, Steve. They hardly have sex anymore.

Then we've got Samantha and her boyfriend, Smith. Their sex life is also kind of slowing down because she's so horny and she just can't get enough sex. And there's a lot of stuff revolving, like some very expensive ring, and the wrong person bought the ring and it's like

we're relating to it. We're feeling it. Yes. $60,000 on a ring. I wanted to buy it for myself. And then she starts spying

on her new neighbor who's always fucking as well. Oh yeah. That's weird. So then Carrie starts to move out of her apartment

and then everything is like fun and cool until Steve tells Miranda that he had sex with another person and she's like, well, screw you then and she leaves.

Meanwhile, Big, he's not taking the wedding planning seriously. This is his third marriage. He's over it. He doesn't give a fuck about weddings.

Yeah, he's prepping for season one of The Good Wife. He's like, can we move this along? Juliana Margulies is my good wife. Right. Good wife. Instead of his wife. It's a very good show. No, that was the kind of show that I was like,

this show's fine. And then I was like, I'm in season six. And I literally could not tell you a thing that happens in that show. I've never watched it. show's fine. And then I was like, I'm in season six? And I literally could not tell you a thing that happens in that show. I've never watched it. She's good. Are you watching The Good Fight? She's good.

You had to leave that one. I don't have $4 a month. You don't want to spin off. I simply can't. I watched The Good Place. Anyway. Pray. So at the rehearsal dinner

the night before the wedding, Steve shows up, and it really upsets Miranda. So she goes up to Big and she's like, you are crazy for getting married. Marriage ruins everything. And so he decides, you're right. Yeah.

So it's the day of the wedding. Big's trying to contact Carrie. On her flip phone. Love. But Lily has hidden it. Yes. In a weirdly silent scene. That child is only allowed to speak twice in the entire movie.

I know. And there's moments where I'm just like, it would be so much less weird if she had a line of dialogue here, but she just looks from side to side and then hides the flip phone. She's like the most well-behaved child I've ever seen. It's implied that she watches charlotte just move carrie out of her apartment for three days yeah it's like isn't she she looks like she should be in school yes yeah big essentially

he he doesn't want to get out of the limo he is like carrie i don't think we should do this and then she attacks him with her bouquet of flowers i did love that part it's a beautiful scene i loved that part visually beautiful that was one of the few times that i was like i agree with carrie right now i don't but we'll talk about it i like that she hits him and then we cut to a few days later she is just shaken to her core. Her friends are trying to comfort her. They go to Mexico on what was supposed to be her honeymoon trip. She does the same thing that Bella does in Twilight,

where she basically blacks out for 72 hours and wastes away. And then she's like, will I ever laugh again? And then Charlotte shits herself. And then she laughs again. And then she laughs. Okay, I did like that part too. Good. I'm glad.

Fine. Some things happen for a while, and then New Year's Eve rolls around, and Miranda and Carrie hang out because they're both single now. That's such a beautiful scene too. It is nice. It's like the New Year's Eve song, but they do it. It's like instrumental. Oh, Eve song but they do it, it's like instrumental. Oh wait, I skipped a whole paragraph.

But like I mentally don't feel like you did. Like you may have but I feel like you've hit everything. So she kind of unrambles. She goes back to New York and hires an assistant to like help her get her life back together. This is how like disposable the Jennifer Hudson

character is written to be. You can forget to mention her and the movie doesn't change. Louise? Yeah, you really achieve diversity. Is her name Louise from St. Louis? Louise, yes. Okay, great. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then Big is still trying to get in touch with Carrie,

but she deletes his emails. She has a new phone number. Carrie's one of those terrifying women who's like, I refuse to learn how to use a phone. I'm too rich. Yeah. Which, they're out there. She doesn't know how to use a computer either. No, and she's like, I'll hire someone.

I'm like, you bitch. And she dyes her hair. She dyes her hair because brown is the color of sadness. I've found that to be true. And then Charlotte, the brown-haired one also, the other brown-haired one,

finds out she's Gregnant. She is Gregnant. Yes. She's got a little Greg cooking in there. So now New Year's Eve rolls around and then Fashion Week happens

for some reason. For some reason. I gotta get, well the the thing is, like, they need this whole movie funded by various brands, and so there's entire, there's that whole scene in the pharmacy where you're like, this scene isn't necessary, but you're like, oh, but Garnier, I get it.

Right. You know, they just need various checks. And then Miranda and Carrie are hanging out on Valentine's Day, and Carrie is like, maybe it was my fault. Maybe that's why Big left. And then Miranda is like, well, it's actually because I told him that he was stupid to get married. Even though that's clearly not why Big. Which is so crazy.

Can you think of how many offhand things you've said like this? I would have forgotten saying that within literally two hours. Right. I mean, I'm also getting married, and people tell me all the time not to get married. Are you going to not get out of the limo? No. I'm like, listen, I got to get divorced on my own. You know?

Like, I have to go on the journey. I understand that, but it's a lesson I have to learn the hard and expensive, catastrophic way. Big reacts to that as if it is the first time he's heard it, but we already know he's been divorced twice. He's just like, wait a second. He's a weak man. I have a whole spiel that I'll go into about this later on. Insane.

But Miranda's acting like it's this big secret she's been keeping, and then Carrie reacts in such a way that she's, I mean, she's furious. She gets stuck on a bunch of balloons. Right, yeah. Visually hilarious. This reminds me of like at my birthday party last year, so many people confronted

my then, at the time, new boyfriend for longboarding there and, you know, he stuck around. Where's the longboard? In the trash where I put it. You know? So it's like, you know, relationships should be able to weather these comments, is what I'm saying. Yes. So

eventually Carrie forgives Miranda and then she starts to figure out how she can forgive Steve. There's a whole Brooklyn Bridge reunion. They get back together. Samantha is horny still for her neighbor, but she's like, oh, I'm with Smith.

I can't fuck my neighbor. So then she dumps Smith, which I thought was one of the... Samantha does a number of things that are just horrible in this movie that I hate, but the speech she gives to her hottie boyfriend who loves her,

I really did like. Because she's like, I like being in a relationship with myself more, I like being in a relationship with myself more than I like being in a relationship with you. And he's like, that tracks. Yeah, that's fine. He's so chill about it. He's very cool about it.

This was after Naked Sushi, right? Yes. Yeah. Also, Samantha's B plotline is that she gained 10 pounds. Right. That is something that is just like and yeah who knows that's what that but that is like the implied wake-up call of like she needs to break up with her wealthy tv actor boyfriend who's obsessed with her whatever yeah and then charl, she's at this point, Gregnant as hell.

Greg is ready to come out. Greg's kicking. And one day she's having lunch by herself and she sees Big and she's like, I'm so mad at you. And then she's so mad that her water breaks. God. It's like one of the few cathartic moments

in this movie where she's like, fuck you, you suck. And then two seconds where she's like, fuck you, you suck. And then two seconds later, she's like, I need you. You're just like, god damn it. So she takes her to the hospital and then Carrie shows up and they're like,

he was waiting here for you. He still loves you. He wrote you all these love letters. And she's like, what love letters? And then she goes into the email file of all the ones she deleted. She figures out how to use email because relationships are sacrifice.

Then they go. He retyped a book. He copied and pasted a book. He plagiarized other people's writing. And then wrote two sentences and she's like, good enough. She goes back to the apartment that he bought for her and then is selling again. Because she likes a shoe.

She loves shoes. Jennifer Hudson. She calls Jennifer Hudson. By the way, Jennifer Hudson's getting married, not that it has any relevance in the plot. No, and she's back in St. Louis. She's not even in New York anymore. But yeah, she's back at home, and then she has to call to give Carrie one more plot point, which is that there's a shoe somewhere.

That's truly what happens. What if Carrie goes into that closet and instead of shoes, it's like the pathway to a devil worshiping cult like in rosemary's baby was it really in the closet that that was where there was or there was like remember they move the like that big piece of furniture and then there's a client and she moves the back of the closet and then there's like the hallway to the cult house that is such a better movie and it was made by

like the most famous molester it's just like this movie is bleak what if she goes in the closet and big is fucking his secretary and she's like well my manola blahniks are here so i'll marry you anyways i mean that's that's about where her standards are at. So he's like, hey, oh, babe. I'm sorry, I was just holding your shoe in my hand, thinking of you. And then she's like, let's, oh man, I love you. And he's like, let's get married again. This time I won't leave.

So wait, it ends, the movie ends the same way the TV show ended again? Well, they get married. Oh, but this time they go through with it. At a courthouse in a simple Chanel vintage suit. Because the symbolism is she didn't need the big dress. She just needed Chanel. She didn't need what she wanted the whole time.

She should have settled. I mean, she just needed the man, as every woman in this movie does. And then they're at the courthouse. The gals are there to surprise her. Then that's the end of it. Jennifer Hudson doesn't even get to go. She's trapped in St. Louis. God.

But that's the movie of Sex and the City 2008. The movie! Yay! movie! All right. Where do we... Oh, gosh. I don't know. Well, I guess Megan, what was your first impression of this movie versus the TV show?

Do you feel like it's a big departure from the TV show? Or how did you feel about it? So I went into it and every all the press had been like this movie is bad and so expectations were low the soundtrack is very good agree and the fashion is sort of the through line that they were able to bring from its Patricia field and it's like listen she did the show everyone looked cool and great she did the movie everyone looked cool and great. She did the movie. Everyone looked cool and great.

And then you're just kind of like plugging them in different. They give you, they sort of like scratch the itch. There is a montage of Carrie cleaning out her closet, and you see all of her like iconic looks. There's two dress trying on montages. Yes, yes, yes. And the thing is, I could have used another one. You know, like never enough for me.

And I did want Steve and Miranda to get back together. And I like everybody's kids. What else do you need? So, yeah, the show is, I know you would disagree, the show is better. It won Emmys, you know. And this is not going to win anything. But if you were a fan of the show, I think you would watch the movie

and be like, this is a nice, warm cup of cocoa. Yeah. There's a few, and I guess we're operating on limited Sex and the City knowledge here. But I mean, for most movies, I would be, I'm always like, oh, why aren't there people of multiple classes portrayed and all that? But for this franchise in particular,

there's a lot of things, like the lack of diversity and the very bizarrely poor way it handles queerness, given that the creator is queer. I take extreme issue with all of that yeah but the class stuff i feel like i weirdly exclude from this conversation because i feel like it was designed as an escapist fantasy yeah for women and it has like a complicated

legacy in general and that's been good lord has it been fucking written to death oh yes uh the legacy of this franchise but i feel like in this like we can do the same five complaints everyone has about this show of like how does carrie afford this on a freelance writer's salary like it's written like it is a fantasy and you're supposed to you know and and when this franchise was kind of like forward thinking and a little bit different which is like maybe the first few seasons of this show and definitely not by 2008. Like it's cultural usefulness was kind of behind it and it was there for fans. But I don't know. I appreciate it as an escapist idea.

And there are like it's so often that whenever there is a franchise that's targeted at women specifically, however flawed it is, but we've talked about Twilight, we've talked about Fifty Shades of Grey, we've talked about a bunch of franchises directed at women, and there's just always this implicit shame about it to anyone who enjoys it in any capacity that sucks because we've also done fucking Blade Runner. We've done

every movie, every stupid movie directed to guys. And it's like women should get dumb stuff too. And that's my feminism. That's my feminism too. And I also think Sex and the City got

a bit of a pass because it was in the 90s. Like when it premiered, I think it was. 98? 98. And so like things, that was a different time, obviously. And in their defense, they were like, well, we're talking so openly about sex and we're having women talk about sex. And so everyone kind of looked the other way on all those other issues to the point that when girls started, which very much kind of stepped into

that same time slot need demographic. Nipples. And everyone was like, where the fuck are all the black people? Right. Lena Dunham was like, but Sex and the City didn't have any black people. That was 14 years ago, my friend.

That was a long time ago and people are mad at them now. And I think that's why girls had so much backlash is because some of it was like delayed Sex and the City backlash. Yeah, I agree. I mean it's, I don't know, like yeah, anything

that anyone says about this is always going to be, like, loaded and weird and complicated. But on its surface, like, there were, like, in, like, the pilot of the show did a little homework, and it's like, this is, like, one of the first shows that acknowledged queer people, however poorly written, as a part of other people's lives. Specifically queer men.

Queer men, yes. The show kind of, except for I think one example. Samantha was a lesbian. For like an arc. For a couple episodes. But other than that, the show seems to erase queer women altogether. Yes, that is true. And she ends up like breaking up with her girlfriend

because she's like, ugh, you're so needy. It's not even a good representation. But they do take baths together. And it is, like, I mean, like, we've covered so many movies that take place in the late 90s. And it's weird because even though this movie comes out in 2008, it

is still the late 90s in the world of this franchise for its entirety, which is why 408, I'm sure it was poorly reviewed because the world had mostly just moved on from that way of women being portrayed. So I feel like this is a late 90s movie in a way. And it is, it sort of subscribes to,

I almost think of it the way that you think of the Spice Girls in a way, where it is feminism, it is like feminism, like girl power that's trying to sell you something quite aggressively. And it's like, oh yeah, like women are empowered as long as you fucking have money. Right, and are white and are hetero. Fin.

Right, yeah. So I mean, it is like, just right off the top, it is peak all of that. And we understand that. Yes, yes indeed. I did write, just right off the top, it is peak all of that. And we understand that. Yes. Yes, indeed. I did write, the first thing I wrote in my notes is, women be shopping the movie.

And they be. They be shopping. That does not disappoint. If you're looking for women be shopping representation, this movie delivers. I honestly, I mean, it's like, why watch this movie delivers i honestly i mean it's like why watch this movie if you don't want to see women shopping it is visibility for women who be shopping and then another thing good thing which we touched on um briefly but uh this as far as i understand it was one of the first kind of mainstream things that was about sex positivity,

especially for women, and that it kind of opened up some conversations that helped kind of lead to a more sex positive era. And then do you remember, I mean, it's like, and I didn't watch this show when it was airing, but even I was like familiar with, and I know we look at it now and we're like obviously this is like one of the least diverse franchises but the like hatred directed at sarah jessica parker for how she looked like was so intense and that for me kind of grounds it in like the 1998

of when it came out of like you couldn't even have a face that wasn't the same face as everyone else without people just piling on you and you just think about like i mean if i was sarah jake i mean how how must that feel that must feel like fucking dog shit i've read my youtube comments before bad yeah i there's like i'm so sorry to bring up family guy but i feel like there's okay uh there's a i think it's a family guy joke where they like compare her face to a foot i want to say yeah it's a lot of yeah there's a i don't know why i'm gonna list there's a foot and horse yes i remember horse and it's just like it's just like yeah she's a hot thin hetero white lady and even she couldn't you know like so i mean it's just such a weird complicated subject yeah well let's let's really dive further

complicated the weeds the bush miranda's bush i okay miranda's bush was my favorite character in the movie. I was like, oh, that's, that's me. That's me. I feel seen. For once. So the big things for me for this movie

is, in addition to the things that have already been talked about to death, which is, you know, the lack of

racial diversity, the weird representations of queerness, the class thing, which I do kind of take issue with. But this movie is, and I know this is the point of the show, Sex and the City show, the whole franchise, but these women's lives are so consumed by men because the show is about sex and relationships. And because they're all hetero women it ends up being that they their lives revolve around the men we're with and yes we do know what their jobs are and sometimes we see them at work in this movie not as much we really only

see them as they their storylines are all in relationship to men and their just lives are completely revolving around men so that it does not bode well for me so may another question how what was the balance between like their relationships and then their like job stuff in the series i do i mean miranda went to harvard and it she had a whole plot line about trying to make partner and how difficult it was when she had Brady. And so her job definitely was, I mean, you know that she works. I guess being a Harvard-educated lawyer is not quote-unquote relatable, but she was a businesswoman, and that's how she identified. Well, as someone with a master's degree in screenwriting from Boston University,

it's actually pretty relatable. And they very much dressed them for their jobs. So Miranda was always in sort of like a two-piece suit. And then Samantha was a publicist, but like a very, very good one. And there were allusions to the fact that she had really hustled and worked her way up. We don't really ever find out how Carrie got this column, but she has it. And then at some point she sells a book. And I think because in the movie she does not work at all.

She has written three books. I guess it's just coasting on. Yeah, she's living off of that. And then Charlotte worked at galleries. Oh, so the jobs that women are allowed to have in rom-coms. Yes. Working at a gallery. Yes. Working at a magazine. Lawyer, but only if you're a bitch.

Yeah. And a publicist. Yeah. The way the movie does it, I don't know, yeah, the way the movie does it is egregious where no one's job is relevant, really. For both Carrie and Samanthaantha at this point when we you know we see them in the movie even their professional lives are centered around their relationships yes in general or relationship to a specific man because samantha has like basically

made smith is her client but she's basically chris jennering him like yeah she's basically his momager and then and then carrie just writes about you know her what hetero love partners and sex even though she hates computers you're like sure you're a writer but i also have no idea what big does what is he's like i have to email a contractor. I mean, like, I'm guessing finance, hedge fund, venture capitalist. He's definitely rich, but it's never said what he does in any way. We don't even actually know his name. His name's John, I think. Yeah, he's got three names.

John Joseph Jingleheimer Schmidt. Yes. That is his name. That is a runner in the series. So they don't really put a lot of weight on, I mean, like, Steve owns a bar. And it's like, no, you don't, Steve. I mean, you do, but you don't.

What does the bald guy do? He is a lawyer. He was actually Charlotte's divorce lawyer. Right, right, right, right. Okay, sure. Which for her, like, pretty convenient. Yeah. But her issue with right, right. Okay, sure. Which for her, like pretty convenient. Yeah.

But her issue with him, she was like, oh, he's ugly, but I guess he is rich. And his penis works, so I'll marry him. Wow. His mom,

I like his mom. No, I think his mom is dead. Or like something where she was like jackpot. That is so dark. Okay. The other thing that really really bugs me about this movie again aside from all this stuff that is regularly talked about is that these women are so reactionary and they overreact to everything which plays into the you know stereotypes that like women just are so emotional and we

can't control our emotions and you know we're incapable of being a lot reasonable and anything like that because the plot of the movie only happens because carrie what i think is a huge overreaction to Big having some second thoughts about the wedding. Like, he... Well, my... The thing... I don't know. Let's... Okay.

Wow. Okay, debate me. Okay. Because how I... I would feel that way if that were the first time he had done this. But this is clearly established. Like, this is like the third, fourth, fifth time he has bailed on her at the last minute. So I say hit him with the bouquet.

If that's the case. And she even says, I knew you would do this. Right. She's mad at herself. Because she's like, of course he was going to do this. But she also should have picked up her fucking phone. You know? Like, Lily, give me the damn phone.

Yeah, that's true. I mean, and there are so many. It's like Chekhov's phone is put into this purse just so this will happen. But I mean, I was refreshed by that moment because I know in my head that even if they break up, if they break up 45 minutes into this two and a half hour long movie,

they're gonna get back together at the end, which I already find disappointing the same thing with steve and miranda because i'm not attached to their relationship and i really was like she should just break up with him if he can't handle not having sex because she's raising his child fucking grow up you're divorced now bye like what like i just i I wanted both of the relationships in peril to actually end. So I really relished the moments that they were like, no, fuck you.

You're like a dipshit. And like, you know, you said you'd show up. Fucking show up. I'm fine with those relationships ending if they had, especially Big, had done something to warrant it a bit more and sure he maybe he's a bailer i i am not familiar enough with the show to have realized that i'm also not attached to the show but i'm like bail on me three times you're canceled

like he had he had said though like i just want you i don't care about a wedding like da da da and then she she I feel like overreacts because she was humiliated in public even though it was front of her close friends and then I don't know I just I felt that was such a huge overreaction and then maybe that wouldn't have been so bad except that it keeps happening where then she freaks the fuck out at miranda that is stupid what like that is i mean i think like the herd miranda like that whole argument is set up to be so stupid like her passing comment doomed carrie's marriage then it's like yeah they shouldn't have gotten married big is like a lame-o coward don Don't marry him. But I mean, yeah, their whole friendship being in peril, that needed to be a stronger storyline

because it makes her look really weird and petty. And it makes Miranda look stupid, which we know she's canonically not. So, yeah. But then Samantha freaks out at Smith and throws sushi at him. That was dumb, too. I didn't like that.

Carrie throws her phone off of a cliff. Carrie, yeah. She's chucking her phone. And then Miranda, I feel like her being upset with Steve being unfaithful to her was more of a warranted thing. But also, she refused to talk about it. She refused to like do anything. She was just like, I'm leaving forever. And then they get back together.

So as do Carrie and Big. So we see that these women, I guess, are capable of forgiveness and growth, which seems to be. They're good christians whatever like like but it just i like the the reactionary responses that were just like so steeped in like women be crazy with their emotions like i couldn't really get past that yeah i don't know i mean and was that true in the show i feel like i do always appreciate and i think that that this movie shows really none of this, but I do always appreciate when you see women making mistakes but you're still rooting for them

because there is such a tendency, we talk about it all the time, towards Mary Sue female characters who cannot make a mistake because women only get one chance on screen or in life, and if you fuck up're you're dead to the world right so i do appreciate like when women fuck up in a sympathetic way uh but i feel like that doesn't really i feel like that might happen in the show sometimes where you're like oh carrie

you dumbass oh in the show they're way crazier really i think so yeah because you just have so much time i mean mean, listen, you gotta get people to tune in every Sunday. There's gotta be drama. There was a guy that, I mean, they would break up with men for the craziest things. Like, there was a guy who would, like,

eat Miranda's pussy, and then, like, she didn't like, he, like, wasn't wiping his face, and then she was like, you're out of here. And it's like, just wipe his face. I've never seen that episode, and I remember that. Yeah, because it looked like a glazed donut. And I thought of that the first time that happened to me,

and I was like, it's like that thing I've never seen. There's a donut tie-in. No, there were relationships in the show that they threw away because that's the point. You know, like that's the vehicle is them breaking up with people constantly to the point that you're like, you're all going to be alone,

which is fine. Everybody is allowed to be alone, but they all like don't want to be alone except for Samantha, really. And I think that's kind of what the writers were doing for the movie. They were like, we can't have all of these couples work, so

Smith and Samantha have to end, but that's the couple that you're the least invested in. Right, right. She's the character who should be with someone the least. So that one, that's not even a big

sacrifice in any way. I was very, very invested in Steve and Miranda. Okay. I feel like I was too sort of. Steve and Harry are like good guys. They really are. Well, see, it's one thing, okay, the thing that bothered me about Steve and Miranda,

who I don't know what their history is, but like the thing that bothered me about them getting back together was that it wasn't Miranda's idea for them to get back together where it's like I actually kind of understand that when she found out like it is set up for her like we're fully on her side where she is like I am like being a lawyer 500 hours a day I'm raising this kid I've got to do all this stuff his mom has dementia yeah she's helping his mom and he's like why won't you fuck me more like that sucks yeah and the fact that she stands up for herself and is kind of just like i don't have time to fuck you right now like i get it there's like it's it just like i i feel like she like a lot of women and people in general can relate with that like are you seriously asking

me to do this on top of like taking care of your sick mom and your child who can't stop like drool whatever like and then it seems it i feel like the movie implies the consequence of that is he cheats and then she's made out to seem mean for not wanting to deal with it right away and not wanting to like forgive him right away like no why that's so shitty and i and so if it was her idea to be like okay some time has passed i've had time to think about it let's try counseling then great but it's like i feel like her friends pressure her into it like all three of them are like why won't you give steve a chance i'm like just give her time. Yeah but he has a funny voice. But he's like

Miranda Miranda come on. I cheated. I'm sorry. I fucked somebody. And then they're like come on Miranda. And some of their history he has one testicle

and they had sex. They had sex. She had pity doesn't come up they had sex she had like pity sex with him and that's when she got pregnant and she was gonna have an abortion carrie went with her and then she didn't have an abortion which is actually a plot line that i really really really fucking hate in the show and in girls it's like both of these women would have had abortions and you're being extremely offensive to the people that watch these shows that have had abortions and didn't walk out of the clinic to keep the baby. Who the fuck has ever done that?

Do you know? So they do have, like, and I think what they're saying to Miranda, sometimes in that foresay, they're like, listen, you chose this bitch and you got this bitch. So you're trying to change someone and it's just not going to happen. I just wish they had just let her come to that conclusion on her own. But Miranda gets in her own way. They all sort of are having to

see their fatal flaws throughout the movie. And Miranda's that she's stubborn and can be cold hearted. Charlotte's is that she likes to run. Carrie's is that She has very bad form by the way. I know. Charlotte says that she likes to run. Carrie's is bad. She has very bad form, by the way. I know.

I mean, as we're sitting up here, I was like, what is the movie about? It was Charlotte, and she's afraid she's going to have a miscarriage or she stops running. Right. That's her storyline. I honestly didn't care. Which is another overreaction. I know.

But I was actually kind of relieved that Charlotte wasn't given too much to do because I'm like, I do care about you the least. Yeah. But her husband is great. Harry's great. Mr. Bald, I love him. Make him part of the friend group. Get rid of Charlotte.

Bring in Harry. You know, he kind of is. Like, he's always like, he like shows up and is like, hey, Harry. Like, he's always opening doors with like a sympathetic look. And that's his entire character. His whole thing is like, I know I just watched my wife give birth for the first time,

but you should really get back together with Mr. Big. Yes, yes. You're like, thank you, Mr. Ball, you have served your narrative purpose. He's such a good guy. And I have to go clip the symbolical cord. But he's awesome and tall. Yeah, it's true. I mean, we can't take that from him.

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Listen to Las Culturistas on Will Ferrell's Big Money Players Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm Gianna Pradente. And I'm Jimei Jackson-Gadsden. We're the hosts of Let's Talk Offline, a new podcast from LinkedIn News and iHeart Podcasts. When you're just starting out in your career, you have a lot of questions, like how do I speak up when I'm feeling overwhelmed? Or can I negotiate a higher salary if this is my first real job? Girl, yes. Each week, we answer your unfiltered work questions. Think of us as your work besties you can turn to for advice.

And if we don't know the answer, we bring in experts who do, like resume specialist Morgan Saner. The only difference between the person who doesn't get the job and the person who gets the job is usually who applies. Yeah, I think a lot about that quote. What is it, like, you miss 100% of the shots you never take? Yeah, rejection is scary, but it's better than you rejecting yourself. Together, we'll share what it really takes

to thrive in the early years of your career without sacrificing your sanity or sleep. Listen to Let's Talk Offline on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I think I was just giving this some thought just now. One of the reasons that I think this still feels so much like a 90s era movie, even though it came out in 2008, is that the characters, from what I understand, again, from the little that I've watched the show,

the four women are way more caricatures than they are real people, which was how TV shows were written in the 90s. That's just how it was. And then they never evolved past that in the movie. So they still feel like, I mean, what do we know

about Samantha? She likes to fuck. She brings it up in every scene she's in. What do we know about Charlotte? She's like a goody two shoes. Like, everything offends me and I won't eat anything if it's in Mexico becausey two shoes. Like, everything offends me and I won't eat anything

if it's in Mexico because I'm racist. God, that was... That whole scene was rough for everyone because they're like, we hate food that wasn't made in America and pubic hair. Like, that was... Them going to Mexico is bad because I don't

think it will... I mean, it's so unrealistic that they would just be like, oh, these two people that were going to come for their honeymoon. Now we're going to let four come. No business would do that. Right. How do they all just have time off? I mean, Miranda doesn't have enough time to fuck. And now she has enough time to get her passport and go to Mexico.

Like, I don't. Where's Brady? Right. And then. And then, and then, Carrie, I hate when nothing is wrong with people

and they have to be fed food. Like, because like in Little Women, Beth is fed food and it's like beautiful and you're like, oh my God, she's dying

because she loved these German kids too much and like, I just love watching people like slurp soup that are ill, but it's like, Carrie, Carrie is healthy.

That's the kink and we respect it. Carrie is healthy, healthy. She's in wedding shape. So that's usually when people are their best. And one of them is having to feed her yogurt. And it's like, don't do this to them. Either eat the yogurt or don't go to Mexico. She shouldn't have gone she overreacted and that's why she's so depressed like if she just stopped to talk to big for a

second like a reasonable person would he could have been like hey yes i am having cold feet some second thoughts as many many people do when they're about to get married i wouldn't i'm gonna leave you at the altar caitlin because this is i there i i still i think she should have hit him with the bouquet i do i do think it is like weird poor form to be like yeah fine i'll go on my honeymoon but i'll be a real bitch about it like Like, just stay home if that's the case. Everyone's being so bending over backwards. I also, this is a no offense to Cabo or wherever they were, I don't think Carrie and Big would go to Mexico. I think they would go to Greece and, like, rent a yacht.

Well, because this show hates people of color, so they wouldn't go to anywhere where, like... Well, it almost reminded me of like, kind of like a Wes Anderson-y move of like, let's just go to like a majority non-white country and use the people in the culture there as set dressing for white people doing things. Well, boy, are you not going to like Sex and the City 2.

Yeah, that one, it's crazy. It cost me $3.99 to rent this and sex in the city 2 tellingly it cost 50 cents wow isn't that wild and this and sex in the city the movie is not good it was not worth four dollars i can't i cannot even conceive what a 50 cent rental on YouTube would yield. It's hard to know. Well, now that we're on this road of how the show treats race, shall I just open up with a quote that I have? Please.

Okay. This is from a piece in Refinery29 by Hunter Harris, entitled Hunter Harris entitled... Hunter Harris, friend of the show because friend of me. Oh, no kidding. Thank you.

She's a friend of yours? We went to college together. Amazing. Yes. Let's get her on the show. Continue. Fine. Okay.

The piece is entitled For Women of Color Who Love Sex in the City. She says, quote, it was a show that was simultaneously progressive and regressive, where people of color were either stereotypes or punchlines. Even when Samantha or Miranda, never Carrie or Charlotte, shared their bed with a black or Latino suitor, the lead character's empathy or curiosity never expanded beyond stereotypical observations whispered amongst their narrow white social circles new york was the main character on a show that featured only one type of new yorker

yes so that's this is speaking specifically about the series rather than the movie but it does apply to the movie still because the one person of color that has any sort of narrative significance is the assistant that Carrie hires right which I am guessing is clearly a response to all the criticism the show got is like include more people of color but then the optics of like a working class black woman being hired to work for a rich white lady those optics are not i am i honestly also think they just really wanted jennifer hudson on the soundtrack and like that may have actually trumped the fact that they were like we need a black person on the show and this is like peak jennifer hudson and i mean she had already won an oscar i think they got her post oscar to just like be be an assistant. Yeah, I truly, I mean, I just stand Jennifer Hudson hard,

and I did not know she was in this movie. She is not used to her full talent, and I feel like her role is essentially, I mean, you could even argue, I think, and everyone sound off in the comments, but I feel like you could even reduce it to kind of a white savior narrative of she applies for this assistant job,

and then Carrie lifts her up and gives her a bag and like all this shit and the ugliest bag i've ever seen very bad back there but i feel like this is another like symptom of this and kind of as an extension of what hunter is saying like it's a symptom of a show made in the 90s that was super white, very clearly not conscious of the fact that, like, television needs to be fucking inclusive, because everyone's watching it, and then trying to course correct way too late. I feel like there is, like, a similar, like, another big 90s show, Friends, ever heard of it, bitch?

Like, they added, I just like, fact check this, they added a black character in season nine of that show. Aisha Tyler joined the cast in like the last two seasons of that show, and it just, and like even though like Jennifer Hudson does like as much as she possibly can with what she's given, and so did Aisha Tyler, it's just like too little too late to course correct when you're that deep into something. And we you know when this comes out we're 10 years deep

into Sex and the City and this is the first woman of color that is included meaningfully and it's like I mean reflected by your recap like she is very easily removed from the plot without much happening she organizes Carrie's life a little bit. Also, she is... She teaches... She checks email for her. She makes her a better website because she...

She's Squarespace. A computer science major. Why is she getting a job as an assistant to Carrie Bradshaw that doesn't make... Well, she is a woman in STEM, number one. Computer science is science letter oh yes i was like which letter s got it got it but yeah so she gets this job that she's overqualified

for i don't know why she applies i mean this was well i mean it's like this is the recession that's how i justified it i was like like, well, you know, people with graduate degrees would take that. But I think it was shot pre-recession. Right. I think it was shot like subprime mortgage time. Which is crazy. Hang on, let me find. So there's this whole storyline where Carrie does this photo shoot for Vogue.

And then a little bit later on into the movie, she is looking at this stack of magazines she has. And on top of her issue of Vogue, there is an issue of Forbes magazine. Of course. And on the cover it says, how long before our real estate bubble pops? Oh boy. Oh my God. Yes.

I mean, Forbes has to be like, did you see Sex and the City? We called this. Right. Because this movie came out May 30th, 2008. The housing market officially crashed on may 30th 2008 the housing market you've officially crashed on december 30th 2008 mother seven months later it's their fault wow do you think that big and carry go on to lose their apartment because of the housing bubble i mean probably and then also

they're fine he he was i'm guessing, this finance guy. He pulled up in the banks, bailed them out. He got hit by an egg during Occupy Wall Street. This is wild. So Carrie sees this magazine, but she kind of moves it to the side. I'll worry about that later. If she had just read the article and done something about it, we wouldn't have been

in this crisis. She could have written, I was thinking the other day. And then instead, she's like, boys, boys, boys. I mean, and even Jennifer Hudson's character

ends up leaving New York for a man. To get married. I mean, well, that's how her character is introduced is, the reason Carrie hires her is because Jennifer Hudson

is like, had a breakup. Yeah, she's just like, I came here to character is introduced. The reason Carrie hires her is because Jennifer Hudson is like... Had a breakup. Yeah, she's just like, I came here to fall in love. And Carrie's like, I'm also stupid. Do you want to be my employee? Like, it is not a good beginning to a friendship. I mean, Jennifer Hudson is very good at her job. I mean, it's like her job is just checking email.

She's great at her job. She rents bags. She has Netflix for bags. Yeah, she loves her family. Which I think exists now. I think it was a joke then, but it's real now. And Carrie does, to someone's credit, say many, many times, you saved me.

Yeah. Yeah, it's just, ugh. I mean, it's like after 10 years, you're like, this is the best we can do. And Michael Patrick King, who is the creator of Sex and the City, he is a queer white man. He has a really, I mean, you could look it up. He has a very bad track record.

It's like he's perpetually in 1998. He can't get out. He's trapped. What else has he done? He also created Two Broke Girls, can't get out he's trapped what else has he done he also uh created two broke girls um which also which had sometime in 2013 had like a storyline that addressed race because it's another show that's helmed by straight white women and uh that by the time it had 2013 came around he got blowback and dealt with it you're never gonna guess extremely poorly um and so it

is one of those things where it's just like yeah he's trapped in the 90s and refuses to learn and now there are consequences for it it's so i mean because he also directed this movie he was one of the co-writers on it and then like the way queerness is handled is strange to me and still feels very stuck in the 90s. There's a lot of criticism around that too, yeah, where it's like you're saying mostly queer men. But JT was telling me, who made me watch this movie, also made me watch Twilight, but he was like,

I'm so attached to the show i love this show because it was one of the first mainstream pieces of media that gave visibility to and that normalized gay men existing in the world so i was like okay like kudos to the show for that but then like i don't know i just i feel like some of the gay male characters that we meet are just steeped in stereotypes. I think that's just another way that this show is perpetually in 1998, where that was a big deal in 1998 for queer characters to be acknowledged in any way.

And then by the time 08 comes around, it's just like, well, this is now a really dated and boring and offensive way to write queer characters. Get your shit together. Right. One thing I like about the movie, I will say, is that it is about a group of women over 40, which you'd never see in a movie.

So I like that. I like that there are women over 40 that are treated by the movie as sexually hot and their sex lives are important. And I feel like that is the strength of this entire series is it started like women over 30

are not like shrews or horrible if they're not married by a certain age. And now the benefit of it being 2008 is like you know samantha turned 50 at the end of the movie and carrie is 40 and that is like addressed and you see them not just be okay with it but you also see them struggle with it a little bit which feels pretty realistic sure and so that part of it i. Because they're also... That part of it I liked. Yeah, they're also... At least Carrie is on the receiving end of some weird ageist comments

from a woman who is older than her. From Candace Bergen. Right, she's like, you can help to prove women everywhere that a woman over 40 can get married. And then she makes a weird Dan Aris reference that i had to look up is so weird she's like yeah you can get photographed and it won't you won't look like a circus freak for now but if you're even a little bit older than you are and you get

photographed in a wedding dress then you will look like a freak and like it just was such a weird that is why okay not to get back to defending carrie for hitting him with the bouquet but to get back to that that was like i felt like that was set up in a lot of ways including that she was pressured by candace bergen classic movie villain we've all seen miss congeniality um so like but we we we saw her be pressured into this vogue shoot which is obviously a huge champagne problem but like she is pressured into doing it it doesn't seem like she wants to do it at first and she's like i don't like you know this guy's he's fucking flake like i shouldn't do a vogue shoot he constantly bails on me we have serious relationship problems but but then candace bergen goes into this wild

ageist rant as a woman over 65 and she's just like no i mean you're basically dead so you should be grateful that i'm offering this to you so i feel like she's pressured into that and then she does that so i do feel like they're okay i feel like in a way not to relate with carrie but i feel like perhaps carrie feels like she is representing a woman over 40 who is like desirable and like worthy of getting married and you know like i i feel like she is representing more than herself so that when mr big bails on her for the five thousandth time it's not only the frustration of like you fucking suck but it's also like i was representing this thing and now you made me now you it's not only me failing it's like a bunch of people that are going to feel bad that this didn't work out.

And you're proving a point. You're proving that like women who are older should not be brides in this way. Right. Because I do think, I mean, I've been looking at a lot of bridal magazines lately and it's extremely ageist. And even when I went to try on dresses, I tried on a dress that was like very simple and like slinky. And I was like, this is more of a second wedding dress.

You do have to... I have eight bridesmaids, and I'm like, I'm too old for this. A wedding is a very juvenile thing, even though it's grown-ups doing it. It's very silly. You get cake at the end. So it is... I do think in a lot of ways,

the movie was trying to address that, like, no matter what age you are, if you're rich, you can wear whatever you want. And that was sort of like a fashion note, how big your wedding can be. But the age and the wedding was definitely unintentional, perhaps, but a significant, like, plot point that i think a lot of people could see themselves in sure yeah i think for me like the fact that she you know is over 40

and that being like the one way that she experiences any sort of like marginalization because otherwise it's like rich white thin but thin, But that sucks in the city. Yeah, but I hate it. Jamie, you've really come over to the dark side. Yeah, but we're in their world. I mean, I saw, oh, I was seeing Mary Poppins. The movie started, and a man, 30 seconds into the movie, he turns to his girlfriend and goes,

it's a musical? What? And it's like, how did you not know that know that and of course it doesn't make any sense that penguins tap dance but like in this world it does so like the sex in the city world is fucked up but like in the world the things do make sense right i suppose i just have to learn to suspend my disbelief. She has a $300 pillow. I can't. But like I would get that. Really?

Of course. I didn't remember that happening. That's like half of my rent. Yeah, I would get a $300 pillow. Okay, first of all, that is a brag. I know. And we hate you for it. Is it a silk pillow?

I don't know why it was. Did she say it? I don't remember that. She just said it was like Samantha's dog is humping a pillow. She's like, by the way, that horny dog narrative. Honestly, I would not get a $300 pillow to put on a couch. I would get a $300

pillow to sleep on and I hope that makes me more relatable. I wouldn't get a $300 pillow, but I would get a horny dog and I have gotten a horny dog. Yes, you have. And I was like, oh, here we are.

Every time they would do something fucking stupid, I'm like, maybe I'm this person. Because I'm stupid. Here's a few things I like. You see women eating a lot. Yes. You rarely get to see. I mean, they are shamed for it. Yes.

But they do eat. And yeah, there is more body shaming than you would think. But shame for body hair, shame for Samantha having gained a little bit of weight. But you see women eating in several different scenes, and that is rare. Carrie doesn't cook, hates to cook. And I liked that because as another person who hates to cook, I think that's important visibility for women.

I like that the engagement between Big and Carrie isn't this overly dramatic, big romantic gesture. As Carrie says, it's two adults making a decision, which I think is maybe how more engagements should go. It's handled very maturely. I would personally like a blimp, but... Oh, sure. Do you want to be in it,

or do you want to be on the ground looking up? I want to wake up in the blimp. Okay. So you want a kidnap scenario. I want my bed to have been placed in the blimp and wake up in the blimp. Well, but then at the end big is like oh man we decided to get married and it was like all business no romance and that's like framed as

a mistake but i feel like i mean marriage is just like a business transaction right well and like the woman should have a say and like it's very strange to me and archaic that like it's like the man is deciding when in most relationships the men decide nothing because they can't think about anything but themselves so it sort of is the one thing they have to do and they usually fuck it up but it's like shouldn't the woman be a part of this conversation i say that all the time that was like when another thing that i sort of was hit on because it's like Because I tried to watch this movie and meet Sex and the City on its terms, which is like vapid materialism.

And it is like if we have limitless resources, which all of these women do, Carrie wanted a big fancy wedding. And Big says repeatedly, I love you for who you are. I love you. I take you as you are. But when she says, well, I want this, that's not OK with them and that bothers him and that I don't know that bothered me too of like it isn't until she they there is no compromise it's not like we'll have a mid-sized wedding which would have been a you know an adult discussion of like she wants a bajillion people he's like

let's have you know 50 people but it she ends up doing exactly what he wanted in the first place, which is to go to the courthouse. And that's like, oh, now she can be married because she rejected her own dream. And it's like, I know that weddings are silly, but that is part of why my parents' marriage failed. But she bought that suit and showed it to everybody, and they were all like, no.

So in some ways, she did want something more simple, but no pun intended, she got carried away. And the guest list started growing because I think she started to, and we all sometimes do this, she started to get attention. And she liked the attention of being a bride. And at first, I think she thought it was silly to be a bride. So I think she was happy in both camps and she was happier in the camp that made him want to marry her. Here's another thing I like. I like that Samantha doesn't believe in marriage.

That's also nice visibility from someone who again hates to cook Samantha doesn't believe in marriage. That's also nice visibility from someone who, again, hates to cook and doesn't want to get married. I like that the male gaze is flipped. And you see, I suppose, a heterofemale gaze where Samantha is looking at her neighbor. And then you see his penis. You do see his dick, and that is great. Yeah. Good. It's a good dick.

I loved it. Because. I mean, if you see a dick in a movie, it's almost always like a gross-out joke. It's literally, there's something about Mary. Give us that sexy dick. Yeah, but you see some hetero female gay's dick, and I really appreciated that. It's a hot, sexualized dick. Although, I will argue that her spying

on her neighbors fucking is extremely illegal and she should be in jail. Not okay. Of course, but she's also in Malibu and they're having sex in front of a window, so I think they wanted their neighbors to see. Yeah. Yeah, and I do like that she,

however corny it was, I liked her monologue when she breaks up with her boyfriend saying like, I like myself, I don't want to be in a long-term relationship by,

do you want the ring? No. I like that she also, this is so small, but he, there's this whole stupid ass thing with a ring. Anyways,

she is like, oh, do you want the ring back? And he's like, no. And she, if it were me, I would have been like, are you sure? Are you sure? Are you sure? And she's like, okay, well, I back and he's like no and she if it were me i would have been

like are you sure are you sure are you sure and she's like okay well i'll think of you when i look at it i was like oh that would be it would be fun to be that bitch for one minute it would does anyone have any other thoughts about this movie boy oh boy i feel I feel like we skipped stuff. Oh, there's a scene where Miranda has left Steve and she's looking for an apartment in what I think is Chinatown. Oh, another racist comment. And she's just like, oh, I don't want to live here.

Oh, look, there's a white guy. I'll follow him. And I'll make him go where the white people are. Well, I mean, Miranda for years has been like, ugh, Brooklyn. And then you see, Miranda for years has been like, ugh, Brooklyn. And then you see her in Brooklyn, and it's like, you're in a $5 million townhouse. Right.

So I guess this was okay. But she still is like, I cannot believe I have to live here. Right. So I don't know what Miranda's issue with real estate is, but it's deep. The last thing I'll say is it took me, I had to watch the scene where Samantha, like there's the storyline where Samantha's unhappy that she can't fuck her neighbor.

She wants to get out of her relationship. And so she gains 10 pounds. She did not gain 10 pounds though. No, for sure. They just show her eating cake twice and then like put her in pants that are too tight. And yeah. And then it just like, I mean, all the implications that any manner of gaining weight

indicates that you are depressed or something is wrong with you. Yeah, so that whole, it didn't look like she had gained weight and everyone is low-key mortified. When she looks, I think, truly exactly the same. And is a cancer survivor on the show. Right, yeah.

Why is this what we're freaking out about? And then Carrie makes, this made me so annoyed, where Carrie makes this little comment where she's like, honestly, I think you would look beautiful at any size, but what the fuck? And you're just like,

you don't fucking mean that you like liar like it just it was so unnecessary and it just yeah i mean just like everything i dislike about this movie is like yeah because that's what people from 1998 would have not blinked an eye at and that is why this movie sucks is because it came out 10 years after it was intended to. And even in context, it makes no sense. And it makes sense to me that it was poorly received, even though it does all the fan service. Everyone is still using cordless phones. I'm like, honey, where's your sidekick?

It's 2008. Are they Gen Xers? Is that what generation they are? No, I think they might actually be boomers. I mean, Samantha's a boomer. Samantha's a full-on boomer. And then I think the rest are Gen Xers. Okay.

Maybe legally, but they behave like boomer. And then all the children are millennials. Brady's actually running. I mean, Miranda ran for governor. Right. Yeah, I mean, and it's like at. I mean, Miranda ran for governor. Right. Miranda, yeah. I mean, and it's like at least they're, you know, like Cynthia Nixon is like an out actor. I don't know how, I mean, she plays a straight character.

Who knows? Right, yeah. She's openly queer. She's married to a woman. And then she also speaks out quite a bit about like bi erasure because she identifies as bisexual. She speaks out about that. I like her.

I like her. I like her. That's all I'll say. I've simply had it. We're not going to do the second movie. It's the last time it'll come up on the show. Well, should we determine whether or not the movie passes the factual test? By our standards of just like a

two line exchange, yes. Not as much as it should, given the fact that it's about four women. pass this to the back door test yeah sure well uh by our standards of just like a two-line exchange yes i would not as much as it should given the fact that it's about four women and every conversation they have even if there is a two-line exchange that is not about a man they usually end up talking about a man eventually or the chris nuth shadow looms oh it's looming the context the context is almost always about men or hetero relationships so it's not the best example it squeaks by though it does it does it squeaks it squeaks when they're fat shaming samantha for not actually looking any different it's whenever samantha is uh body hair shaming miranda that passes the test being horrified by the first pube she's ever seen passes the bacterial test it's not as we say it is not a

perfect metric but a perfect metric is our nipple scale ding ding ding ding zero to five nipples based on its portrayal treatment and representation of women for this i guess i'll give it like two does that sound good i need validation from the crowd there is it about a group of women celebrating their friendship is did it kind of did it help with the sex positivity movement arguably sort of did it do a lot of regressive stuff as well definitely uh-huh and yeah just the fact that the women are just so all consumed by the men in their lives. They are, again, I would argue, playing into the trope and stereotype of highly, highly irrationally emotional women

and being so overreactionary about everything. The entire erasure of people of color. There's a quote in the very beginning. I think Carrie's doing voiceover about the auction that they go to which is like this like poor and that's about a woman getting divorced and having no money and having nowhere to live even though she like was a model and like all this stuff like clearly had money but meanwhile like the homelessness problem in new york city is you know. Why didn't they address that?

What the hell? It sucks in the city, Caitlin. They're not going to fix homelessness. Gary says something like, and now for an event that all types of New York women go to. And then you like see the crowd and it's just like thin, white, rich, mega, mega rich. Right. And they're all there buying the things of a woman down on her lap. $60,000 pieces of jewelry.

Yeah. It's very dark. That whole strange revenge narrative. Wild. So, yeah. I mean, there's some things to like about, you know, I like that Samantha, you know, just wants to go out there and fuck and doesn't believe in relationships. Carrie hates to cook.

Love those things. Everything else, don't care for. So I might even bump it down to one and a half nipples. Yep. Yeah, I'm doing it. One and a half nipples. I'll give one to Cynthia Nixon and I'll give my half nipple to the dog who humps the pillow. Horny dog.

Did the dog get a name? I was just calling horny dog in my notes um did she name it i feel like it doesn't really i think it had like a funny name the dogs the dogs treated like the children just inconsequential uh i'm i'm gonna it's funny because i've been standing up for various plot points i'm gonna give it half a nipple and if that i like this i mean this is like french i mean this especially if we're talking about the movie, the movie is reflecting the values of 10 years ago. So that's never going to bear well. Right.

Like, it's just, I mean, Sex and the City, like, it was vaguely empowering to people for, you know, like, up until, like, 2002, maybe, if you, and then the L word came on, and then, you know, it's like, there's so much more to, like, see culture reflected in any way by the time this movie comes out, that it's, I mean, the only thing, I mean, the thing I can say for it is that it is, for its class issues, the women of Sex and the City are not here to fix homelessness. They are, it is a classist escape narrative,

which I think does do something for for a lot of people i mean i i know like people in my life who were just like you know like i'm a poor person in massachusetts and it is fun to like plug yourself into the problems of some random rich lady in new york and the escape narrative i i not I mean I don't love it but it's like you know that's a lot of entertainment and sure no one is Captain Marvel but you can be for two hours at a time. Or are they?

They're not. But so I like I mean I don't like it but I appreciate it if this movie had come out in 1998 I would have given it more nipples but it came out like weirdly way too late Jennifer Hudson

is criminally underused I really like her and I look forward to our Dreamgirls episode is what I was thinking about for a lot of this movie and also it's also just a personal slight at the movie how dare it be two and a half hours long

how dare it truly I'm furious of all the horrible things that happen in this movie how long it goes on is by far the most offensive thing yeah we'll never watch it again but really do feel that she should have hit him with that bouquet

in conclusion half nipple giving it to Lily, who should have had more than two lines of dialogue. Sure. Oh boy, I was going to give it three, but now I can't. So, I'll give it two nipples, because

yeah, I guess you are right. 2008, it's not woke enough for 08. But, I'm giving the nipples based on nostalgia and just, you know, the fun it gave me as a young girl in Indiana trying to watch some sex on cable.

Yeah, very good. Well, Megan, thank you so much for joining us this evening. Thank you for having me. I can't wait. Give it up for Megan Gailey. I can't wait to be back to do Sex and the City 2. I can't wait. Let's do it.

I have high hopes for that one, really. Zero nipples. I've got 50 cents. I'll watch it. Tell us where people can follow you online. What would you like to plug? Gosh, listen, i just got my website fixed um but oh was it by jennifer hudson you know what it was actually fixed by a woman in new york

um but a white woman and um so you can go there i don't update it so just twitter at megan gailey m-e-g-a-n-g-a-i-l-e-y gosh, I really don't put that much on there. I feel like Instagram stories is the new Twitter. And so my Instagram is bettermegangaley. There was a Megangaley, and I taught her a lesson. You were the better one. Yep. Incredible. Yeah, thank you for coming.

Give it up to Megan one last time. Give it up to the Ruby for having us. Give it up to Sammy for recording for us. Give it up for Jeff. Give it up to Sammy for recording for us. Give it up for Jeff. Give it up to the Ruby. Did I say that one already? Give it up for Caitlin's haircut. Okay.

Yes. Yay. Thanks for listening. A couple things. One, I wanted to clarify some things I said in the episode that I don't think I articulated as clearly as I wanted to clarify some things I said in the episode that I don't think I articulated as clearly as I wanted to when I was talking about women's emotions and reactions in the movie. I am all for women expressing emotion, especially rage, because rage is an emotion that women are

historically not allowed to show. I will once again recommend Soraya Shamali's book, Rage Becomes Her, that goes into much more detail about that very topic. I am also all for women unleashing their rage on men when those men are behaving badly. For this movie, though, I just felt that women's emotions were used as plot devices to add more drama to the story, much the same way that the lead woman in the movie 40 Days and 40 Nights had wild, nonsensical overreactions to everything as a way to move the plot forward. We covered that movie. We talked about that on that episode. Go back to that for more of a discussion about that. I just don't like when that happens in film where women's emotions and reactions are made to seem extremely over the top as a way to

propel the story forward and add more drama to the situation. And that's what I felt happened in Sex and the City. The reactions that they were having at different points in the story just felt to me more like stereotypical hysteria that you sometimes see in flat underdeveloped female characters, because according to usually male writers, women be hysterical. So I just wanted to clarify my thoughts on that. So thank you for bearing with me. I also wanted to say thank you to our guest on the show, Megan Gailey. She was awesome. Thanks to the Ruby for having us. Thanks to Sammy for recording the live show. Thanks to everyone who attended the show. We always love having you there and meeting everyone who comes.

So thanks once again to all those folks. And please, as per usual, follow us on social media, Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, at Bechtelcast. Please rate and review us on Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Check out our Patreon, aka Matreon. It's $5 a month, and you get two bonus episodes every month, plus the entire back catalog of all of our bonus episodes. And that's at patreon.com slash Bechtelcast. Of course, there's merch to be had. So grab that at our merch store, tpublic.com slash the Bechtel cast, where you've got feminism is the law now. Feminist icon, queer icon, feminist icon, Alfred Molina, who once again was unfortunately not in the movie Sex and the City. Bye. They're returning her beloved country into a mafia state. Listen to Crooks everywhere on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Hey, I'm Gianna Pradenti. And I'm Jermaine Jackson-Gadson. We're the hosts of Let's Talk Offline from LinkedIn News and iHeart Podcasts. There's a lot to figure out when you're just starting your career. That's where we come in. Think of us as your work besties you can turn to for advice. And if we don't know the answer, we bring in people who do, like negotiation expert Maury Tahiripour. If you start thinking about negotiations as just a conversation, then I think it sort of eases us a little bit. Listen to Let's Talk Offline on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

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