The Bechdel Cast - She's Gotta Have It (1986) with Kenice Mobley

Episode Date: February 3, 2022

On this episode, Jamie, Caitlin, and special guest Kenice Mobley take a break from their many lovers to discuss She's Gotta Have It.(This episode contains spoilers)For Bechdel bonuses, sign up for our Patreon at patreon.com/bechdelcast.Follow @kenicemobley on Twitter. While you're there, you should also follow @BechdelCast, @caitlindurante and @jamieloftusHELP Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Daphne Caruana Galizia was a Maltese investigative journalist who on October 16th 2017 was assassinated. Crooks Everywhere unearthed the plot to murder a one-woman WikiLeaks. She exposed the culture of crime and corruption that were turning her beloved country into a mafia state. Listen to Crooks Everywhere on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. To listen to new episodes one week early and 100% ad-free, subscribe to the iHeart True Crime Plus channel, available exclusively on Apple Podcasts. Kay hasn't heard from her sister in seven years. I have a proposal for you. Come up here and document my project.

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from Blumhouse Television, iHeartRadio, and Realm. Listen to Dream Sequence on the iHeartRadio app, They're just dreams. Confessions. Join hosts Gabe Gonzalez and Chris Patterson Rosso as they explore queer sex, cruising, relationships, and culture in the new iHeart podcast, Sniffy's Cruising Confessions. Sniffy's Cruising Confessions will broaden minds and help you pursue your true goals. You can listen to Sniffy's Cruising Confessions, sponsored by Gilead, now on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts. New episodes every Thursday. jimmy jimmy wait let me try it again jimmy please jimmy please jimmy jimmy wait how does it go you have to get the cadence it's an iambic pentameter is wait baby please baby baby i forget the order now anyway hi well i'm dumping you anyways so it doesn't matter sorry i'm dumping you on the bridge i deserve it honestly who in this movie doesn't welcome to the bechdel cast uh my name is jamie loftus my name is caitlin durante and welcome to our um

i don't know where that was going to our podcast we're okay so we are like there's a bit of a frenetic exciting energy to the episode today because and we'll let you in on the big secret that is allowed is we're recording together today which is we're physically together with our guest this has not happened in almost two years yeah and i'm truly like i'm excited and i also like it's like weird and different i know and we have such and we have such an like there's so much to talk about today too on top and we watched the movie together and our guest made this incredible dinner twice caitlin got ice cream i got wine that's just okay and and we're here we're together i don't know it's all very exciting truly so what is the

podcast about it is our podcast in which we examine movies through an intersectional feminist lens yeah we use the bechdel test as a inspiration a jumping off point to initiate a larger discussion and the bechdel test of course is a media metric created by queer cartoonist Alison Bechdel, sometimes called the Bechdel-Wallace test. It requires the version that we use that two characters of a marginalized gender have names, they speak to each other, and that conversation is about something other than a man. And ideally, it is a meaningful, narratively relevant conversation. Right. And today, I mean, I think we have a movie that's been requested for many years. We're very excited to be covering it.

And even more so than the movie, we have a guest who is, I mean, so amazing. But even as it pertains to this show a record-breaking guess shattering through things we didn't realize were possible i know and we should be presenting her with a jacket that we promised a year ago yeah we had plenty of time to get this jacket but we fucked up it's because we actually contracted some moths to make some silk for the jacket and it's a supply chain issue and the moths are on strike and it's this whole thing and we want to reach an equitable contract with them yeah so it's all good jackets on the way i was like where is this going as soon as you said moths moths make silk do they yes i

thought that was a spider thing oh my god wait i just started to be like am i oh no worms silk worms oh no what do moths do they they eat they eat they'll just tear it apart with their mouth cheap wine and now i think that moths make silk. That's okay. Well, Kenny, that's why we don't have a jacket because I hired moths. Yeah.

That was your Christmas. And they're on strike. Yeah. Cause they're like, why are you asking us to do this? I can't. And they're like, you need to be paying us more because we cannot physically do what you're asking.

Wow. They've got a subcontract with the worms and that costs money. I'm caught in the middle of oh god i've and this is the life of a ceo and it's it turns out moths don't make silk um well we're covering she's gonna have it today, 1986 film by Spike Lee. And we're bringing back the all time. I really fumbled your intro. But Caitlin, you have the correct. I've got.

Yes, I've got all the details. She is a vulture comic. You should know. She's got some headlining shows coming up in February on the East Coast. You know her from our episodes on How Stella Got Her Groove Back, Casino Royale, among others. It's Kanice Mobley. Welcome back. Five-timer. I'm so excited you're back. Welcome to LA, by the way. Thank you. I told you guys it was because Sketch Test was rescheduled, but really it was because of this.

I would fly out here to do this. I love this pod. Let's do it. We've really reached, yeah, S tier podcast where we fly our guests out. Yes. We fly our guests out. Don't say that. People will request to be.

They'll be like, excuse me. Free trip? Like, oh, well, no. But we're so stoked that you're here it's still i'm still like acclimating to be in the same room with other people i know it's like i have to look over here and then i have to look over here we were doing this for years i know and it and i've lost the skill same but we are covering uh she's gotta have it We just watched it together two times in a row. We had a two-course meal. Yeah. And here we are.

And we're doing great. All right. Kenice, what is your history? Oh, right. That's the first question. I was like, how does this show work? I'm too excited. I was like, wow, I wonder what's going to happen.

I should know. So, Kenice, your history, your relationship with this movie? So, I saw this movie for the first time in college. I think I took my first film course junior year. And we watched this. And I'm beginning to think that the guy just had us watch movies that he liked because we watched this movie and the 2005 Pride and Prejudice and maybe like two other movies and I'm like I don't understand what this class was but we watched

that movie okay and we talked about it and like in the history of like black and white New York movies where we talked a little bit about Woody Allen as well and I was like oh wow okay well I like this more than that yeah so yeah yeah nice Jamie what about you what's your relationship I had never seen this movie um I I knew it was like it was one of those I don't know I I have a very poor track record with watching auteur movies I get overwhelmed and I feel like people bring so much to auteurs that they love that I I'm like you're probably right and then I never watched the movie um which is why like I never watched a Wes Anderson movie before this show like I'd seen very little like all of the auteurs of

this era I hadn't seen and um I've seen a number of Spike Lee movies now, but I hadn't seen this one. And so I saw it for the first time with you both. And I was really on board with it for a chunk. And then it was like, oh, my God. But there's, I mean, I generally like really enjoyed it. And I think it's like, I mean, especially for like the way it was made, too. It's just like kind of an unbelievable accomplishment. I'm to talk about it long story short i hadn't seen it caitlin same i had never seen this really yeah i had seen other spike lee movies but uh this one i don't know it just never came across my desk your desk there yeah caitlin's desk it's just full

of movies yeah all of other all of spike lee's other desk right now accurate yeah thanks um but yeah i watched it for the first time a few days ago knowing knowing that we would watch this and i just had to be extra prepared but uh and then i started watching the series as well because this got 2017 correct and i got like four episodes into that and i have a little bit of like stuff to mention about the series at some point but uh yeah generally i enjoy this intellectual property be it the movie or the tv series but yeah i'm also excited to talk about it i'm very yeah there's so much especially i don't know like spike lee is such a fascinating figure too and it's like he's one of the few auteurs that

i feel like is very willing to interact with conversations about his past work in a way that most men are like no i was right which i mean we were just talking about one of them woody allen is an excellent example of someone who has made a movie in this aesthetic style and refuses to acknowledge any of the problems with this past work and that's the 50th most problematic thing about him but in any case yeah i'm very excited to talk about this movie and the history of it. Should I just dive into the recap and we'll go from there? Yeah, let's do it. Hell yeah.

I still can't get over this. I know. This is so wild. I have to make sure. We're here. We're here. It's nice. It's so nice.

Okay, so we open on some still images of Brooklyn. Taken by Spike Lee's brother brother spike lee's family is very present in this movie yep then we cut to nola darling played by tracy camilla johns she's waking up in bed and then begins to directly address the camera saying that she wants to clear her name she considers herself normal even though other people have called her a freak. And then she's like, but here's the deal. Then we cut to a man named Jamie over street and the Jamie representation

with this character, Jamie, very poor Jamie representation in this movie. You bring in a Jamie character automatically and rooting for them. And things really take a turn. Certainly. He's played by Tommy Redmond Hicks. He's also addressing the camera saying that he believes each person has only one soulmate. And for him, Nola was that person. We see a very sensual sex scene between

Nola and Jamie. Then we cut to nola's ex-roommate clorinda bradford played by a sister yes how is her name i thought it was joy but then it's she's telling us that when she lived with nola there'd be all these strange men in their apartment that nola was having sex with and it caused a falling out between nola there'd be all these strange men in their apartment that nola was having sex with and it caused a falling out between nola and clorinda and then put a pin in that character because she's not going to be back for so long one of my problems with this movie it's like let's introduce a woman and then disappear her okay can i don't want to interrupt the recap no please no please but the first sex scene the first sex scene jamie is so sweaty and to pick that up in low light in black and white

that he's truly dripping sweat on this poor woman you're right that is kenny's pointed out all these incredibly insightful things about shooting on film as we were watching this. I was like, oh yeah, it would be really hard to like, you have to be sweating a lot for it to pick up through so many things. I was just like, oh no,

poor her. Cause she didn't look that sweaty. But he like, she touches his back and you can see like droplets moving and being spread out over skin. And I was like, look, not all Jamie's have sex like that some jamies are very dry well it's also weird because they almost hopefully not everywhere not everywhere not where it counts okay but in other areas you know it's fine but they would have only been simulating sex so like why is he so sweaty was there some was there someone like with a spray bottle like we need to make this realistic yeah yeah maybe that yeah i i don't know i mean not

to shame sex sweaters your body is your body but it was a lot of sweat there's a lot of sweat they're you know humans human bodies you know yeah there's a lot of naked ones in this movie um okay so nola tells us about how men come up with some really off-putting pickup lines but jamie was different and then we see the scene where they quickly see that he was absolutely not different and in fact was maybe even weirder than you see this really funny um this really funny montage oh my god i can't remember any words today for the listeners i was trying to kenny's said the word altar and i was in my notes four different times it says nola's meaningful shelf and i'm just suffering um but yeah the montage of like shitty pickup lines with with guys who are like locking eyes with the camera and trying to like fuck you through this it's just so funny

it's really good yeah some of those lines have not changed i live in brooklyn now and i'm like yep he still lives there he still lives here this guy definitely still here. What's up? He's just 55 now. He's hanging out at the same bars. Yeah, this movie is 35 years old. It came out in 86, which is also the year I came out. Wow. Nasty way to put that. I came out of my mom's vagina. Yeah, I was like, okay.

I feel like you can specify what kind of coming out, but okay. Hi, Lori. I know you're listening. Anyway, okay. okay i feel like you can specify what kind of coming out but hi laurie no you're listening anyway okay so right jamie meets her by spotting her while he's waiting for the bus and then following her so he to a to a fun jazz soundtrack by spike lee's dad yeah he goes from what i presume to be j street metro Tech down Fulton Mall. These are all New York places, but you can still go shopping there if you want to. And that's like, they're not like right beside each other, just to be clear. They're like.

So he's following her for a while. Yeah, because he goes from the F entrance and he walks down this Fulton Mall road to an entrance of the 23, okay? Oh. So that's totally different train lines, of the 23, okay? Oh. So, totally different train lines, guys. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I can relate, and I understand 100%. Same.

You, Caitlin, you lived in New York for a minute. Yeah, I lived in New York. But did you live in Manhattan? I did. Wow. I lived in East Harlem. Oh, well then, I take back the wow, that's normal. Okay, so then we meet Mars Blackman, played by Spike Lee himself. He talks about how Nola was a freak in the sheets, quote unquote. And he's like, well, that's something that men want.

Yeah, but not for a wife. Spike Lee can say the most vile things in character and he's so lovable like he's just you're just like i can fix him you know he's also i i put this in my notes he's more attractive than the other guys yeah like more than jamie more than everyone in that weird montage and it was just kind of like what a self-centered thing to do as the director to be like is he hotter than me well he's not in the picture no way i won't have him i'm gonna stand next to that i thought that that was no i mean i feel like that's a good use of power i would be like no one hotter than me in the movie i'm gonna look amazing well he got over that because in the show everyone is the most beautiful person you've ever seen but he's not it and he

stopped being in his own that's true people kept getting hotter and hotter and he's like i'm just gonna stay back here i do feel but spike lee is hot it's like to this day he's hot he still looks the way he did in this movie yeah yeah so then we cut back to jamie overstreet who mentions a woman who seems to be interested in nola though nola denies that anything is going on between them then we meet this woman opal gillstrap they're everyone kenise you said this while we were watching every character in this movie has such a good movie name yes like it's so movie it's great nola asks her what it's like to have sex with a woman and opal is like well you should just try it parentheses with me which nola does not do then we meet greer childs played by john canada

terrell which is an even faker name somehow oh my god i need to like put a pin in that and be like just name you give your kid the middle name canada and just see what happens see what happens like see how they turn out you know that's fun probably gonna be cool right i'm like i feel like it will elevate them in some way but not a middle not a middle ground right canada wild he talks about how he molded nola into a refined young woman he's very judgy and elitist he has a perm he does yeah yeah and a series of suits yes that he wears i think each and every time in a situation that does not call for it no yeah not at all mars is wearing a jersey of some kind yeah yeah i was like i'm sorry but uh thanksgiving at a studio apartment,

you don't need to wear a suit. You don't wear a suit. You don't. And just for the listeners, a perm in the way that black people use it, not in the way that white people use it, which makes your hair curlier.

A perm in the way that it relaxes the hair, a relaxer or a texturizer. Okay, now you guys got it. Okay. Someone else will be like, I don't understand. Like Sigourney Weaver used to do honestly it

kind of meets in the middle there because yeah his hair has a little bit of wave to it that some corals yeah there are some sigourney roles yeah yeah uh then we see a sex scene between greer and nola which is mostly him taking his clothes off very slowly and folding. That was funny. Okay. I like when they're watching that scene. I'm like, not enough sex scenes are funny. I agree. Yeah. So then Jamie gives Nola a birthday gift.

He had hired some dancers to do a dance scene. That is the only scene in the movie that's in color because the rest of the movie is in black and white, which I guess was, I read a little more about it and i guess that spike lee was really into mgm musicals when he grew up and so that was like his mgm musical moment he wanted to have like a musical dance scene because that was like what he liked growing up i thought that was really cool nice also the song that the dancers are dancing to is about how nola fucks a bunch of dudes unfortunately the song absolutely sucks shit it does it's not that great sorry mr lee mr speckley's dad but i don't like it he's listening

bill his name is bill bill's alive he's he's 93 years old and kicking well bill when i get back to brooklyn i'll reach out and i'll say but it's also just wild that that's the song that they're dancing to that like about something that jamie is very threatened by he's like yeah my girlfriend is fucking a bunch of other dudes and i constantly bring up how i hate that but i wrote a song about it i do think that like ties into mean, especially cause we watched it back twice and watching that scene back the second time, knowing where Jamie's storyline goes is like, this is a very fucked up way to behave.

Yeah. But even so it's like so much of this movie is like knowingly. So this isn't even a criticism of just like different men with different backgrounds and different personalities lashing out at the same woman for not giving them what she wants even though she repeatedly tells them that's not what she's going to do and it's just like they become more and more conniving and like strategic and expensive like what he's he composed and like rented out space and hired dancers they had to rehearse probably to criticize her at her like that was her birthday present

right hey you fuck a lot and i don't like it happy birthday happy birthday and you're just like this is so much work anyways meanwhile greer is recommending that nola see a sex therapist because he thinks that she has a sex addiction. But he thinks that because she's not giving him what he wants. Yes. Then Nola invites her three boyfriends over for Thanksgiving dinner so that they can all meet each other. And again, they're all quite threatened by each other. Can we discuss how this seems like a nice thing to you and a truly terrible thing to me and jamie we were like absolutely not we had a real reckoning this is ideal i was like i would do that oh my god i think we really learned about each i truly like in a good friendship way where kenny's and i were like oh wow this is the stuff

of nightmares and kenton's like this is kind of a sexual fantasy it's true but you know it's good to know now we know each other and now so do all of our listeners facilitate that i you know i will if one of your exes or currents is like hey we'll do that for your birthday yeah thanks yeah we'll get all your exes in a room and then we'll be like, we're going to see ourselves in a room. What exes? You have to have partners to have an ex. Okay.

Now it's getting personal. Now I'm going to cry. No, anyway. So they have Thanksgiving dinner together and then they all play Scrabble together. That's my favorite part of the movie. That was cute. That was cute. all play Scrabble together. That's my favorite part of the movie. Okay, so then Nola has a dream that Jamie's, Greer's, and Mars's girlfriends all come over, accuse Nola of stealing their men,

and then set Nola on fire. But it's just a nightmare. Then Jamie confides that he started to see another woman, and that he's not like like nola and he can't see multiple people at once so she has to make a choice so she's still kind of like as far as he sees it she is stringing him along so he leaves her then opal tries to make a move on nola but while she's like hey i'm having a tough time i know it's not working out with the guy she's like this is the moment to put my tongue in your mouth yeah yeah and like does fully surprise kiss nola who is not responsive to the kiss at all and then it's like hey you should go then nola calls jamie and tells him to come over she really needs him then he does come over and trigger warning he rapes her unclear if the movie

really understands what's happening or not which is like a whole discussion we'll have yes then nola reconnects with her former roommate clarinda she breaks up with greer and mars she goes back to jamie and asks him to take her back, which he presumably does. But the next and final scene of the movie is her addressing the camera one last time, saying that it didn't work out with Jamie. She's not a one man woman. And she's like, you know, this is my mind. This is my body. We can kind of unpack the whole monologue later. But she gives this like powerful monologue. And then she gets into bed by herself. And that is the end of the movie.

Let's take a quick break and then we will come back to discuss. Daphne Caruana Galizia was a Maltese investigative journalist who on October 16, 2017, was murdered. There are crooks everywhere you look now. The situation is desperate. My name is Manuel Delia. I am one of the hosts of Crooks Everywhere, a podcast that unhurts the plot to murder a one-woman Wikileaks. Daphne exposed the culture of crime and corruption that were turning her beloved country into a mafia state. And she paid the ultimate price. Listen to Crooks everywhere on the iHeartRadio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. To listen to new episodes one week early and 100% ad-free, subscribe to the iHeartTrue Crime Plus channel, available exclusively on Apple Podcasts. This summer, the nation watched as the Republican nominee for president was the target of two assassination attempts, separated by two months. These events were mirrored nearly 50 years ago when President Gerald Ford faced two attempts on his life in less than three weeks. President Gerald R. Ford came stunningly close to being the victim of an assassin today. And these are the only two times we know of that a woman has tried to assassinate a U.S. president.

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Available now with new episodes every Thursday. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I've been thinking about you. I want you back in my life. It's too late for that. I have a thinking about you. I want you back in my life. It's too late for that. I have a proposal for you. Come up here and document my project.

All you need to do is record everything like you always do. One session. 24 hours. BPM 110. 120. She's terrified. Should we wake her up? Absolutely not.

What was that? You didn't figure it out? I think I need to hear you say it. That was live audio of a woman's nightmare. This machine is approved and everything? You're allowed to be doing this? We passed the review board a year ago. We're not hurting people. There's nothing dangerous about what you're doing.

They're just dreams dream sequence is a new horror thriller from blumhouse television iheart radio and realm listen to dream sequence on the iheart radio app apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts and we're back in the same room wow Wow. We're still all here together. We didn't leave. Where shall we start? Is anything jumping out? There's so much to talk about. I know.

I guess just to kind of generally speaking, I appreciate that it is a movie about a woman who likes to have sex. She wants a number of different partners, something that like most people judge her for. But as she's constantly saying in the movie, like, this is my life, my body, my choice. And ultimately, like the movie allows her to do whatever she wants. She's not judged by the movie. She's judged by the other characters right you know it's just like it's her setting the record straight and showing people that she's not some like quote deviant or like quote freak and that that's a perfectly fine thing for a woman to have a large sexual appetite i have a weird question yeah who is like i know

spike lee is the maker of this movie but the person behind the camera has like even an interaction with spike lee where he's like bonin oh you know like this so it indicates that there is someone there and i i was just like what is this that's a really good question i don't really know the answer like who is who is supposed to be making this and is it because this is such a strange thing that this woman has sex or like yeah i don't i didn't totally get that i didn't even i think that i think i that didn't even register for me because it's so normal for someone to talk to like talking head in a void yeah now where it's like what was the office being filmed for yes um i don't know i didn't

even think about that of like a woman whose sexual habits are so abnormal for 1986 that we're making a documentary. Like, I, whoa. I don't know. I don't know. Because I asked that partially because at first I was a little bit confused about the chronology because everyone's scenes where they are looking directly to camera and talking seem to be happening after the events of the film. Right. They're telling the story. Yeah. So then they jump back and I'd

be like, wait, where? Part of me was like, maybe I'm just like not smart enough. But like, I was like a little bit thrown in some scenes like, when is this? Is this when we see her sleeping with these different people? Is this before the other thing? Oh, this is all happening simultaneously. Okay. No, I think you're smart because i i didn't even that didn't even occur to me i was just like boing yeah the way that like a reality show will have like the talking head interviews where they're talking about something that clearly happened in the past but they're talking about it like it's currently happening where it's like kim is like chloe obviously has an issue with shirt and like which could be a person or a shirt and then and it's like making it seem like this just happened

or like they're just talking but it's like clearly it's weeks later yeah but the tense of it talks about like i don't know yeah but no that kanice that's a great question as far as like who is like the characters who are directly addressing someone who is presumably asking questions? Right. Who is that person? What is that entity? We don't have an answer, but that is a really good question. I feel good about myself. But yeah, I mean, I think especially like having to like repeatedly put myself in the mindset of this movie and these themes coming out in 1986 it's like that is a pretty huge thing to have

happened and to have like been extremely successful and we'll talk about the production of this movie but basically this movie was made for like very very very little money and then ended up making seven million dollars in 1980s money yeah and like became this huge thing and like launched spike lee's career and the fact that his first movie was about the sex life of a black woman who was very empowered and like was i don't know like it i'm like this just didn't happen like it's really cool and i think like from like a male auteur i've we got to think of a better way to say that because it feels bad coming out of my mouth but like from from an

auteur who's a guy you know a first movie where it's like spike lee puts a lot of his own himself in his main character who is a woman and like gives her the agency he would give himself in that like where it's like there's just like details of spike lee's young life that are in nola's where it's like he's raised by artists and like was raised with this very strong sense of artistic integrity and like was you know and which you can tell because his family is literally in the movie supporting his art and contributing their own art into it and it's like those are all qualities that he gives to nola and i feel like that's like i don't want to like over credit but also it's like you just don't see it a lot of like a male auteur not one-to-one-ing yeah themselves into a movie which is i feel like i mean auteurs in general are kind of just like

well here i am this is me pretty interesting right yeah and it's like he's like you know thinking i don't know yeah imagine i totally agree although that said would i like to see a movie about a like very sexually free and empowered woman having been written and directed by a woman yes yes i would like to see that um because they're like there are specific things about this movie that like aren't great they're very of the time but the general premise i can still get behind like i do like commend spike lee for you know like not having such an enormous ego that he yeah i guess that's more of what it is because it's like i mean the scenes that are between women in this movie of which there are not many i you know even if i didn't know this was a spike lee movie i'd be like i don't think this was written by a woman

it just i'm not feeling that i don't know i do want to say before we move past it that apartment has 20 foot ceilings at least yeah full windows multiple windows i looked for an apartment in brooklyn at the beginning of last year and they would be like you have one window okay it's the living room window and we actually built a wall halfway through the window so that technically the bedroom also has a window which is required by law okay so the idea that this woman has like i, which is required by law. Okay. So the idea that this woman has, like, I wasn't counting, but I did, I think I clocked at least, like, six windows,

20-foot ceilings, enough space for a queen-size bed to have a whole altar built around it. And that's not, like... A whole Phantom of the Opera style, like, burning candles. It's a big old metaphor but it's dangerous it's dangerous i believe the word is meaningful shelf sorry it's a bunch of meaningful shelves thank you i appreciate that and it's overlooking the brooklyn bridge today today

yeah they would have that would be that would have been divided into like four one bedroom apartments because they would have built up the floor right in the middle of the room a piece yeah like millions of dollars now and she lives there by herself as someone who does layouts in magazines yeah is that what she does i think so yeah she's a graphic designer and it's like i i do when i'm like i wonder it sounds like based on your description that it was also unrealistic when it came out but i wonder how unrealistic yes because i think it it's hard how do i put this now white people live in brooklyn and i guess in the 50s based on that movie with christa ronan they did too but like for a while for a while they did it heavily heavily gentrified. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I was like, maybe, maybe this is fucked up.

But we're like white people so afraid of black people that they were like, no, not even with good real estate. No, I wouldn't do it. Sorry. Nope. Not going to do it. Just truly wild. There is some commentary in the show, in the series that got adapted from this movie about

like, because it takes place in the same neighborhood. Oh, okay. But there's a lot of commentary on like gentrification and there's more like class commentary and stuff like that so a lot of the things that i don't care for about the movie get course corrected in the show although the show's not perfect and i've read some criticism about that that i was like oh yes good point does it have the language of like polyamory ethical non-monogamy all that stuff okay yes so in the show nola darling identifies as a sex positive polyamorous pansexual okay got it okay which does not happen in the movie and i and i don't even like personally fault spike lee for that that just wasn't popularly understood language. Not that it wasn't being discussed, but it wasn't being discussed in popular movies.

Right. Yeah. I mean, should we talk about that element of the movie? Yeah. Again, like this is a story about a woman who like embraces her large sexual appetite. It's not like demonizing a sexually liberated woman the way that like whole genres of movies do like we talked about like film noir this happens in a lot of like horror slasher movies but this is just like a character study about a woman who likes to have

sex she's extremely open not only about her sexuality but like with her partners about right the other partners she has they know their names yeah they all know one another's giving together yeah like i yeah and again it's like i'll qualify this by saying i'm not polyamorous and i might not get things right and i apologize if so i like want to understand more but it's it's interesting to see a character who like nola is so it's it's part of what makes the three men so frustrating as nola is extremely straightforward she's very honest like even in moments where in my head just with movie brain i think she's going to lie. She doesn't. Like, and there's a moment where she's in bed with Jamie and Mars calls her and they have a quick talk.

She hangs up. Jamie says, who was that? And in my movie brain, I'm like, she's going to lie. But she says it was Mars. I was like, she's giving you all the information. She tells Mars. Mr. Please, I gave you all the clues. She's literally writing

a snowman note every morning noon and night to multiple people so much sometimes she's reveling in it just being like when he's like do you want to go to the caribbean with me and she's like i don't think i could stand being alone with you for more than for two weeks at a time and she's like smiles as she said it like you're the worst i was like damn but true she like she's very honest and upfront with all of her partners and so the fact that they are like in that whatever like mental loop of like let me try the same thing over and over even though i have all the information i need and i'm expecting a different result it's like until they become angry at her.

Yeah. Because they weren't listening and they trust that they know her better than she knows her. And it's this thing that's like the underlying assumption is like, you're saying that, but you don't really mean it. And I'm going to go based on because I know you so well. I'm going to assume what your actual intentions are. I'm going to assume what you actually mean are. I'm going to assume what you actually mean.

And I'll go based on my assumption. And when you don't do the things that I assumed, I will accuse you of being sick. Like in the case of Greer, I mean, that's like something that really, I mean, it is, it's, I don't think it's like callously played for laughs. I think it like works in the way it's presented,

but it's very clear because the three men in this movie are just like in different ways all so embarrassing and like hard to watch um but greer i mean his i mean he has he has a lot of stuff going on but like he's very very classist he is insulted that um that nola would have sex with someone of a lower class than he does. It clearly really, really bothers him. So it's like you just watch all these different characters find ways to attack each other and the woman that they are saying that they're in love with. Yes.

And to shame her into being with them exclusively. And there's this scene where Greer's new approach is that he's going to say that she's addicted to sex and that something is wrong with her and that's something that comes up again again with Nola that the movie for the most part and won't but like the most part seems aware that it's like the people accusing Nola of deviance are projecting their own insecurities onto her she is not deviant she is a horny person who's being very honest like so what do you want from her she's giving she's giving you all the clues mr policeman um but in that scene like greer says like i think you need to see a doctor yeah can like cut to

nola i'm like why did nola agree to go see the doctor i that was a question i had of like she clearly knows but she like whatever if she's appeasing him whatever it is she goes to this sex therapist who's also this very like comedy character and very like i feel like in the way that a lot of 80s and 90s and even like 2000s and sometimes 2010s uh therapists are like stylized of like they're very arrogant and they're talking down to you and they like think they know what's best for you but even so even though it's like you have this like therapist who's like NYU accreditation is very prominently displayed on the wall and it's like when Spike Lee went to NYU I'm sure that's a loaded thing to do whatever but even so

the arrogant therapist is like there's nothing wrong with her she's a loaded thing to do. Whatever. But even so, the arrogant therapist is like, there's nothing wrong with her. She's a perfectly healthy person. Cut to Greer being like, women doctors, right? What does she know? So just like, these men could not have more information. And Nola is being, I think, like, in some cases, overly generous with her energy to like, put their minds at ease and she's so accommodating yeah she's I'm just like too accommodating god yeah because they're either

like accusing her of you know saying she's sick she's a freak she's a sex addict saying things like she's not capable of loyalty or devotion or commitment or love even they're all threatened by each other and just like they're constantly attacking her for things that again she's always been extremely upfront about and that they just refuse to understand because like you said kanice they are making assumptions about her and they think that they know her better than she knows herself but i also think that they're probably they're just like pulling from stereotypes about women in general. It was the police,

because that's not allowed anymore. They're like, we didn't have all the clues. Where they're like, you know, just like the idea that like, women want marriage and babies and to have a very domestic life. And they're the ones who want it so bad. They're the ones who want that.

From the moment you see Jamie, you're like, this guy wants to be a wife domestic life. And they're the ones who want it so bad. They're the ones who want that. From the moment you see Jamie, you're like, this guy wants to be a wife guy so fucking hard. Which is just like, and there's nothing wrong with that. But the fact that he's like weaponizing that and projecting that onto a person who keeps telling him

that's not what she wants, at least at this phase in her life. Because I do like how the script gives us like little insights into into Nola's life where like she hints at like I want a family someday but I just that's not where I'm at right now that's not how I want to live right now so five kids right which I'm like well run that back and see how you feel in a couple years she's in her like mid-20s you know that'll scale down over time but but even so it's like she repeatedly is like that's not where i'm at right now like i

don't i want to it's so frustrating i want to unpack the her like closing monologue sure so she starts by explaining that the celibacy thing didn't work out because she had told jamie that she was gonna be celibate for a while and then she says that she shouldn't have gone back to jamie in the first place implying that things didn't work out with him and she's absolutely correct that she shouldn't have gone back to him and then she says about jamie he wanted a wife a mythic old-fashioned girl next door but it's more than that it's about control my body my mind who is going to own it them or me i am not a one-man woman and then she goes on to say you know so there you have it from a number

of people who all claim to know what makes nola darling tick and then she says i think they might know parts of me dot dot dot and then she gets into bed and it's a great i really love the ending and it comes after such a tumultuously frustrating 10 to 15 minutes before that it is shocking to me that he sticks the landing at the end of something that okay so should we do you have more to unpack on that just to say that like i'm pleased that that is like the final note of the movie that that's like the button we end on because again like the movie had been building up that we're seeing her like we we see the men that she's with getting worse and worse as the movie goes on she's getting more and more frustrated with them she breaks up with all of them at one point but then gets back together with jamie in a decision that we all find baffling yes but then for the final moment to be like yep

that was a mistake i shouldn't have gone back to him. I'm setting the record straight. This is who I am. It's about me, my body, my mind, my choices. I own all of this. So I was very pleased that that's like, I mean, the more that he's like, I'm just going back to what are they filming her for? Because that brings me back to I was just looking at I had some of the opening monologue in my notes. And she starts by by saying I want you to know the only reason I'm consenting to this is because I wish to clear my name I'm like so whoever's has a vested interest in her having more than one boyfriend like it's so confusing but I do think like those whatever the the movie very intentionally begins and ends it in the same place and I like there's now i find the

beginning of that monologue at the start of the movie to be i have questions but she ends it on like some people call me a freak i hate that word i don't believe in it better yet i don't believe in labels which is like another great thesis statement for her character and then also when any other time you cut to her like talking head in her bed she's really like reading these men very very clearly where she's just like you know i found two types of men the decent ones and the dogs she calls them weak she calls them all these like and i feel like it's implied in that montage that she's so aware that all of these men are shitty that she's just like yeah i'm i'm not in no rush to settle down with any of these guys like i yeah like i i like how

she's she has like those moments and i wish that she got i mean she does get a lot of opportunities to stand up for herself to these men but they just stick around and it's like to the point where i'm like i don't know why she keeps talking to them i don't know why they're still hanging around yeah we gotta break up this group it's not working because there are moments where it's like when greer is aggressively like you are sick for having sex with people who aren't me and she she like fires right back and is like well fuck you i'll never see you again basically but then she goes to the doctor anyways and i'm just like this is a little confusing i i love the scene when she does finally break up with grew at the end and he's like i'm so mad he's

like you don't mean it but you're the worst you don't know anything i mean they don't wait i was like wow okay yeah you're like when he invites her to the he he's a terrible person but he was i think maybe one of my favorite characters in this but yeah he's like they're on the roof and he's like come to the caribbean with me and she's like no or he's like whatever you it's right now you gotta tell me yes or no and she's like no and he's like okay you don't have to rush. Like, let me know by the week. Yeah. Take some time.

Think about it. Take your time. In the same way where it's like in that scene where she's like, oh, okay, I'm having sex with too many people. I'll start by not having sex with you. He's like,

well, let's not rush. I don't know. Maybe, maybe only have sex with me. I don't know. Like it's, yeah,

there, the, the writing of the movie is so fun. And like we, we kept talking, I mean mean whatever mars's character how he can't not repeat back what it's just been said to him or what also what he just said um is so good like all the characters are so distinct and it's so like again it's like you don't want to like hand it to a man for identifying male behavior too much, but it's like, it is so funny to me how, and funny in the bad way, but how like all three of these

men, they're so different, but they all have a different version of the same problem. And the way that it manifests is very different, which is just like what you're saying, Canice. They think that they know what this woman wants better than she does which is of course not true and so it works out for none of them because yeah why would they i just wish before we move on to like the heavy heavy discussion i would like to ask did you guys feel like there were any scenes that set up these relationships in a positive way like i feel like all of them were set up in like a here's clearly a failing or like this is like how it's incongruous but like was there a moment and i think it's supposed to be after he stalks her down the street and they have a conversation is that the moment we're supposed to see them together

and have something positive that we then root for or That was one of the moments in the movie where I didn't necessarily feel like the movie knew that that was fucking weird. Oh, the movie doesn't understand that at all. Because there's like, do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do, and there's a man actively stalking a woman. And even the shots are kind of like leering, and you're seeing her from behind, like it's true crime footage.

And then at the end, Nola's just like waiting for him near a subway stop and she's like oh like t.v you were following i thought you'd get here and then he's like i gotta see you again you're like this is not this is not good yeah so what happens here is that before we know how they met we see a scene with them together it's that very like sensual scene where they're like making love so sorry i just said that i'm a virgin again it regrew i'm sorry it's diamonds are a lie i get that but you get it it was a joke it's back it's back but and she says something like you know

most men don't know how to like touch a woman but like you're really good at it whatever his massage looked weak sauce dude yeah his hands were angles you couldn't get the strength to get into like that like that was awesome so i felt i thought as though that their relationship was like from that first scene i was like oh this does seem like mutually respectful and you know it seems sweet and nice and then that's when nola is like she makes a comment like it seems that men are taught not to be in touch with themselves and their true feelings i was like cool yes generally very true uh then she says and then you should hear some of the things that men say and then that's when we get that montage of a bunch of

different men delivering very corny pickup lines there There's a hot dog joke in there. There's a hot dog joke. USDA certified 10 inch premium beef. Tubestake. Tubestake. Oh, I forgot he said tubestake. I don't want to think tube when I think of a penis. I really don't.

I think about tubestake a lot, but it's not sexual. Okay. Yep. It's because that's my job. All this to say, Nola is clearly not impressed with this tactic of picking up women. And then she's like, but one guy was different. And then we cut to a scene where Jamie stalks her. And then you're like, this is the different guy?

It is different, but in a horrible way but it's different yeah like those guys were creepy this guy is stalking you it's a different it's i was kind of i mean and i honestly thought we were being set up with something a little bit different with jamie that i mean what this isn't a criticism of the movie but i sort of thought it was like the premise of the movie was something that you wouldn't see in movies of the 80s of like a woman who is not interested in a monogamous relationship and a man who very much is like that's not something you get very often and i was like oh we're being set up with these characters that you know don't have the socially prescribed desires right but then jamie just turns out to be a rapist and so i didn't see that happening

but but i do think that that is like i don't know i mean it's so complicated because i do think that in some ways and i wouldn't include the rape scene i just i mean i feel at least better that spike lee regrets it because i think it just like complicates so much in the movie in a way that is not necessary and turned my stomach and was triggering. So, but, um, but in the way that like, okay, I'm talking to something real time, but when you're presented with a character who's like a man who wants a monogamous relationship, I feel like they're almost presented to you like they're from then on are above criticism because that's so unusual and like oh a man who just wants to be with one person well then i guess we love this guy so the fact

that jamie wants a monogamous relationship and turns out to be a fucking despicable person like also not something that you see in movies very often however i think that he's still a despicable person even if you don't include a rape scene of our protagonist that is upsetting and shouldn't be in the movie totally because again the whole movie is him and the other two men constantly sucking sucking and being mean to her it's like yeah she sticks around even though you're meat like come on okay it's very frustrating guys but can we uh we get that discussion out of the way yeah i you know trigger warning again because we do have to talk about the rape scene in this movie that i just did not see coming at all there's been a lot written about this movie but like this scene in particular

because it is like shown i mean very clearly it is a rape scene where it and it's a violent rape scene and when you may whatever when when you see like that decision being made you're like what is even more important is like what happens in the scene after and like how is this movie going to handle the fuck because if you're making that creative choice you better fucking know what is going to happen after and you better deal with that hugely triggering creative decision you just made and this movie does not do that they make you know they make you really sit in this horrible moment for nola and then the next scene and this just felt like a knife twist in a way that was so

frustrating as a viewer is the only scene you get with her and her friend um is her name clorinda who you've seen clorinda before because she's participating in this grad student's documentary about some lady he met um and we find out that you know that clorinda and nola were roommates they had a falling out and then it seems like nola reaches out to Clorinda in the fallout of this rape. And I was like, okay, maybe this is going to be a scene where let's see what happens.

You know, like, let's see how Nola brings it up. But she kind of doesn't like what happens is very, I don't know. This was a scene to me that I was like, this was written by a man who did not know how to write this scene because nola is saying things like i think i really fucked up this time

jamie really hates me and clarinda replies by saying oh i don't even want to know what you did to make him feel that way and it's like they're kind of like circling around they don't even talk about what actually happened really right and it's implied in the scene that nola feels like what happened to her was her fault which again is something that a lot of people who have been assaulted like feel but this movie is not interested in that conversation and that's not what's happening in this scene it's i think one of the few and like a really egregious moment of the movie being out of its own depth like it's just not equipped to handle this plot point and i don't understand

why you would fucking put it there like it's yeah it's awful what did take me by surprise is that she then in the scene after that i think is talking to jamie uh and she's saying she's telling him that she wants to be celibate for a while he's questioning why well it's implied that like this rape like prompts a change in her and like inspires monogamous like that happening to her is what changes her mind quote unquote between wanting to date multiple people into just wanting to date Jamie like it's just such a such a dangerous creative choice to make to be like okay and then he I mean he he rapes her and then all of a sudden she's like you know what what? I'm dismantling my Phantom of the Opera bed. Like there's all these symbolic things that happen to indicate that her getting raped was actually a good thing.

Like a wake up call. The wake up call she needed or something like that. So you guys both saw this movie more recently. I saw it well before me too. And just how we discussed it was fundamentally different as though like this is interesting this is kind of like well you play with fire you get burnt it was just like very much so like the discussion was this is the wages of whoredom and if you whore around this is what's gonna happen and just i'm so happy to re-watch it under like a not super christian not super like southern

not all of these other lenses that i was viewing it through sure sure because yeah that was and like so when she meets up with clorinda clorinda is playing the upright bass or the cello it's got to be the upright bass bass on the fingering but yeah she's playing that song nola and so for it to go right from like a violent rape scene to be like here's the theme of the movie you know just this is natural course of progression and the song about how she's around she fucks around oh my god i didn't even connect that god that is i i would love to hear i mean the the nature of the discussion you were having in school that's like i feel like we've had stuff like that pop up in the show quite a bit of like

just the conversation that we had like 10 years ago was just so fucking wildly different um i i went to um in a lot of the like modern and most of them were written when the netflix series came out so like 2017 2018 about how this plot point was originally reviewed when the movie came out in 1986 i think is also very telling about just where discourse was at at this time and and also keeping in mind that in 1986 the vast majority of movie critics were white guys so this was from the new york times in 1986 he says uh mr hicks the actor who plays Jamie, Mr. Hicks gives Jamie a depth and passion

that escapes other men. It is telling that when Jamie's patience gives out and he turns rather shockingly brutal to Nola, his violence seems natural and does not diminish interest in or sympathy with the character. Who wrote that? New York Times review.

Mr. Times, i don't know but it was i it it was a white male film reviewer at the at the new york times at that time um but even the fact that it's like it was such a prevalent like it's exactly what you're describing kenisa's like well she took things too far and this is what happens to women who take things too far where it's like they just no you're a man and you've lost your power where here's a way to get it back like right like and just implying that like yeah the implied like well of course that would happen when it's like there's not i don't think a frame of this movie where she's being dishonest or not completely straightforward with him and it is it's it's like there's not I don't think a frame of this movie where she's being dishonest or not completely straightforward with him and it is it's it's interesting because I think that there's

moments in the movie where it felt clear to me that the movie was like he's getting in his own way his false expectations and his like ego and his masculinity is like what's preventing him from listening to her but then but then it takes this turn at the end and like gives him the power back and then at the last second gives it back to nola but it just doesn't deal with what happened and i just don't understand yeah yeah should we talk so spike lee has been asked about this in at least two interviews that I found. One was from 2014 and then another was from 2017 when the show came out. He was basically, it was a question that he was asked about like, do you regret anything?

Any, to quote my favorite misspelled tattoo, any ragrats? So he says this in 2014. You know what my biggest regret is? The rape scene and she's got to have it. If I was able to have any do-overs, that would be it. It was just totally stupid. I was immature. It made light of rape and that's the one thing I would take back.

I was immature and I hate that I did not view rape as the vile act that it is. He qualifies in 2017 um there will be nothing like that and she's got to have it the tv show that's for sure which it sounds like is very true right i mean i've only seen the first four episodes but i don't imagine there is a scene in which nola gets street harassed and then assaulted and then that's actually what prompts her female friend to suggest that she starts seeing a therapist and that therapist character becomes someone that Nola sees in multiple episodes. So that whole thing is handled differently. Is it handled perfectly? I would say

no, but it is certainly handled better than it was in the movie. Sorry, I cut you off earlier. You were talking about what happens in the last scene together where, I think, do we get to the point where Nola does say to Jamie, like... So that's what took me by surprise, yes. Where, so she calls it a near-rape, and she's saying that's why I'm going to be celibate for a while. Or that she says, like, that's, you know going to be celibate for a while um or that she says like that's you know i'd rather not get into it but don't you think that your near rape of me is a

good enough reason i was surprised that i was surprised the writing yeah yeah it even gets mentioned and identified although near yeah rape is not how i would but then jamie responds by saying i've never done something like that in my life which i think implies like well maybe if you hadn't like it just implies that she her behavior forced him to do that to her yes yeah yes i agree which so he's still acting like on that bench he is still acting very much so like the wronged party yeah yeah like the blame is on you nola and you've got to convince me to let you back into my life and then that weird slow motion shot that isn't slow motion oddly not it's not slow enough it needed to be slower okay i think that they were just like, um, our,

our editing budget, we ran out, just walk real slow. But then can, as you pointed out, there's a bird that flies past. And it seems kind of at regular speed. I'm going to be real honest.

I was like, I don't, I don't buy it. I was like, I get the spirit of it. It's a low budget movie. But yeah. So in conclusion,

the handling of the assault in this movie was really wretched. But at the very least, Spike Lee, acknowledging that it was a mistake, saying he regrets it, didn't view it the way it should be viewed. That is more than you get from most directors looking back on their work like again it's like i don't mean to over do it but i'm just like no one is willing to have that

discussion it's so frustrating yeah exactly and it's another like ego thing where most you know uh tours who are men are unwilling to acknowledge that anything they ever did was wrong or a mistake, or they're constantly defending their choices. And that is horrible. Like to the detriment of their life. Like it's just so, um, yeah. So I'm,

I'm glad that Spike Lee is willing to have the discussion and just, and also like apply it to the next version of of the um of the intellectual property almost i know i was like i don't want to say ip oh wow that makes me feel ill it's the world we're living in baby i know ip universe baby let's take a quick break and we'll come back for more discussion. Daphne Caruana Galizia was a Maltese investigative journalist who on October 16th, 2017 was murdered. There are crooks everywhere you look now. The situation is desperate.

My name is Manuel Delia. I am one of the hosts of Crooks Everywhere, a podcast that unhurts the plot to murder a one-woman Wikileaks. Daphne exposed the culture of crime and corruption that were turning her beloved country into a mafia state. And she paid the ultimate price. Listen to Crooks Everywhere on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

To listen to new episodes one week early and 100% ad-free, subscribe to the iHeart True Crime Plus channel, available exclusively on Apple Podcasts. ago when President Gerald Ford faced two attempts on his life in less than three weeks. President Gerald R. Ford came stunningly close to being the victim of an assassin today. And these are the only two times we know of that a woman has tried to assassinate a U.S. president. One was the protege of infamous cult leader Charles Manson. I always felt like Lynette was kind of his right-hand woman. The other, a middle-aged housewife working undercover for the FBI in a violent revolutionary underground.

Identified by police as Sarah Jean Moore. The story of one strange and violent summer. This is Rip Current. Available now with new episodes every Thursday. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I've been thinking about you. I want you back in my life. It's too late for that.

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on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts and we're back okay let's banish jamie from the discussion should we uh and i think we've kind of covered for me when you're saying banish jamie and i was like but you are part of it. I'm leaving. Let's banish Jamie. I'm Jamie. I'm out. I'm tired.

I'm going home. We've covered, I think, does anyone else have anything for the Jamie character? I'm going to stay. I'm glad you're staying. Thank you. I will now call, air quotes, nice nice guys toxic nice guys you know i will now call them jamie overstreets because that was a wonderful example of exactly the thing so like when she's talking about like how lame other dudes are who asked her out and how he was different yeah it is also this dichotomy that she's talking about where like air quotes nice guys and dogs because like the the dogs are coming up to her

and like oh you want to touch my penis but the nice guy will literally stalk you right take everything you do personally and then like yeah that's right that's a nice guy that's the sweet guy i think it almost like it it almost feels like it ties to like the nerd thing too, of like feeling like, oh, I'm not the traditionally extremely egotistical masculine personality. Therefore you should be thrilled that I'm interested in you. And in fact, you belong to me. And like, and he gets so, I think that he like, yeah, like almost overestimates the value of his performance of niceness. Nice guys always do that.

Yeah. They're like, I'm not like those other guys. I'm a different kind of unstable. And if you don't respond to me the way that I want you to, I will lash out in ways you couldn't imagine. Like it's just, yeah, it's not like a one to one there. But it does feel like just in terms of a level of entitlement. It feels kind of similar. And then with Greer, you got something totally different where he literally refers to her as an object in

his opening monologue where he's like, she was the clay I was the sculptor. Like, he's literally like women in ways are hunks of horny clay and you make them a statue and sometimes they don't want to be a statue it's like it's weird like a statue i put her on a pedestal perhaps an altar yes um but we haven't talked very much about uh mars who is another fun flavor of mars black man that is his name i'm not just saying that that is his name it's true and he's like immature misogynist like that's his like a baby misogynist yeah where he's like his his whole thing is like i mean i think that he he we're supposed to think you know he's like, his whole thing is like, I mean, I think that he, we're supposed to think, you know, he's like the character that's closest in age. It is more, I think that it's implied that like Greer and Jamie are like in their 30s and that like Mars is a little bit younger and like he's kind of a mess.

He doesn't have a job. like he has more of a traditional ego where he's always like over like clearly overstating his impact on the world and like making shit up and like saying he knows famous people but like doesn't have a job or has nothing going on and so it's like well that's not true you know like the movie also immediately undercuts he because he's like uh women who act like this have problems with their dad and they do this wonderful nice thing about her family and how she was raised very well and love it which i thought was very effective commentary yeah right there's like this he says something like i think one of the reasons nola was having all that sex is because doing all that boning he says right yeah he's he's the baby he's the baby uh it's because her doing all that boning is because she has a bad relationship with

her father um which is obviously like a very common attitude that like you know women have daddy issues especially the ones that are out there fucking um and then we cut to a scene where we meet nola's dad who is played by bill lee spike lee's dad you cut from son to dad yeah this is kind of fun um and nola's dad is saying how much affection and love they gave her when she was growing up they like paid for music lessons and dance lessons and all this stuff and then right after that is a scene where nola was like you know reminiscing about her childhood and the love her parents gave her and all that stuff which is obviously like dispelling it's just so obviously not the issue right yeah that you're yeah that like um mars is this belief that he has that you know like

horny women seek the affection of men because they have daddy issues horny women are the devil and i think that like he takes that opportunity to kind of like go a step further to in a way that isn't totally necessary but i kind of liked it um of like what mars is implying is like she's not marriage material which he says in his opening monologue he's like oh you you know you want to be around a freak but you don't want her to be your wife right or that's whatever i think that's like basically what he says yeah yeah and he's implying that like oh this woman is not family material and then at the end nola is like and i want a family someday i had a great childhood and i love my parents and they love me and we see that that's true and then she's like and i would like kids of my own someday and so it's like well this guy is just fucking wrong yeah what a goof um he also uses uh the very

ablest r word r word in the first scene he's in so the 80s were different and then yeah that was kind of all i had on mars okay yeah that's all i had too i mean i also think just like he in the same way that the others guys do just like can't take the hint and keeps pushing back on stuff like there's one scene where he i don't even really fault him for this but he he's just like i love you i think i'm falling in love with you and she sets the boundary again she's like well that's not where i'm at like we are in like yeah yeah that's how you feel like hit the bricks kind of and then he said he accepts it in the moment but then in the next scene is still like i hate these other guys you're dating like yeah projecting on her again and like is just trying to find all these like he and jamie have this bizarre rapport between the

two of them because greer is like so classist towards jamie and oh yeah uh and and mars that that's a non-starter they're never gonna talk but jamie jamie and mars kind of have this like weird anger-based friendship misogyny thing going because they meet up again they talk about basketball they talk about larry bird and how he's ugly they have a whole i thought it was a fun way for spike lee to get his basketball opinions into his first movie um if i ever make a movie i'm doing that i know he's like well you might as well uh but you know to the point where mars is like oh let's split her up by days of the week you're just like oh my god you're so sick also we did not involve her in this conversation no no of course not because he's like you get her for four days

i get her for three and it's like that means that nola has to see one of you every day of the week like what about the alone time she needs and also i mean i and i think that like his character is such a goof that it's like he's half joking yeah but he's not totally no which is which doesn't say he was like okay he'd be like cool and just again i reiterate i get weekends i told you that yeah right dibs on a person yeah awesome wow men are so funny cool they're so cool they have such good ideas can we talk about the other women in the movie let's talk about the other women in the movie there's not that much to say i was like let's just roll let's just power through. So we get Clorinda, who is the former roommate that Nola had. Slut shames her right away.

Yes. They've stayed friends, but she's like, I couldn't live with her anymore because she was just always having different dudes over at the apartment. And then they, like you said, Jamie, they don't even interact until the end of the movie. I know. like you said, Jamie, they don't even interact until the end of the movie. They looking past the scene that had just happened right before it. If you can kind of like just isolate that scene between Nola and Clorinda, you know,

it's fairly sweet. It's, you know, Clorinda seems like a supportive friend, although, and I think that it's like, and I don't want to, cause I don't necessarily think that the movie is like operating on this level of like thinking of how women relate

to each other but i was like i could see clarenda's point of view from like an annoyed roommate stance of like if your roommate is having really loud sex all the time to the point where it's interrupting with your quality of life that's a discussion but it doesn't sure but it sounds like he wasn't maybe thinking about it that hard it made it sound like you're having too much sex and it bothers me yeah right as opposed to like i'm you know maybe and i'm not pulling from my own experience here maybe you podcast for a living and so audio quality is actually kind of important to your and then someone's just fucking fucking fucking you know against and you're just like well quality is actually kind of important to your and then someone's just fucking fucking fucking you know against and you're just like well this is actually a problem yeah and then

it's a discussion and then you and then you move i i will admit i would be pissed if i was like hey i truly don't feel safe because of the i don't know any of these men i know none of their details and they're in my bathroom when i'm in a robe and I'm coming in and given what I know that you've told me and for that roommate to just be like you're not down you're not cool I'm on the lease fuck off I would be kind of like you're like well can we have a discussion like and it also does I mean again I just I'm like is it even worth because I'm like I just think that like maybe Spike Lee is not thinking about it that hard. And it's like, women don't like when other women have sex, multiple sexual partners. Like, I think it's more like he is assuming it's a monogamy brain thing.

And I could be wrong there. That was my read of it. Well, we would know maybe if we had just seen more scenes between Nola and Clarinda, which we don't get. I will say this is another thing that the series improves on where we meet several of Nola's friends who are women. Some of them even have like arcs throughout the show. Nice. Although I did read some criticism about that and other aspects of the show again. So I don't want to be like the show is perfect

and it fixes all the problems of the movie sure um but it certainly does improve upon them um but yeah with nola and clorinda we like we get really almost nothing there it's the thing it's like to the point where i guess we do have to like be grasping at straws here to be like what did she mean when she said that because you just have no information of why she said that. The other women that we see in the movie, we see the therapist for one scene, which is kind of more of an extended joke about therapy. I thought of like,

it's not a completely negative interaction, but it's like, whatever. I just, I was like playing on a lot of like therapists be like this and they're always like they think they're so much smarter than you and you don't want to go back uh which is i mean there's way more egregious versions of that commentary but it wasn't my favorite and also it's like that the character never comes back yeah

sure um yeah what struck me about that is the the therapist dr jameson says something like you know what we're all jamie energy on this movie oh yeah seriously she says what we're all looking for is love and if you if what you want is total female sexuality the beautiful sex organ is between your ears not between your legs and it's like eyes roll back into your head right it's like again as nola clearly states she's not necessarily interested in love again she's like i want a connection with someone sure and i want to have sex with people yes it doesn't necessarily have to be love so i was like all right sex therapist seems like you don't really understand your job that well but then she finally says i do believe that 80s sex therapists were saying shit like that i mean i was like i don't think they still existed in the 80s

yeah i think they're still out there some of them have gotten no additional training and that's true and i've talked to them as therapists they don't give you booster packs as a therapist. I was told I had a porn addiction because I watch porn when I masturbate. Oh my God. Yeah. He was like, do you think you, I think we should start talking about addiction here.

And I was like, addiction, addiction, because I want to, okay. I, there's, I do think that that's,

well, if we have therapists who listened to the show, I would actually be curious of like, are you encouraged to get booster packs? Because my, and I know that that's not an academic term. And I'm talking in Pokemon terms because my IQ is two. But, but I am curious because it's like my mom is a teacher and teachers have to get booster packs all the time to remain employed. Like you have to be, like all the time to remain employed like that you have to be con like to the point where it's like you know a burden to the teacher of like you

have to be constantly taking new classes and learn about new educational techniques and like if you're the same teacher you are when you start and when you end you weren't doing your job correctly because you should be getting booster packs all the time therapists should be getting those 100 but are maybe some of them are. I don't know. I'll look at the APA guidelines for certification. Please, hit us up. And that's just for psychologists.

It's different for psychiatrists and counselors. Right. Who knows? I have the same question for medical doctors. Are you getting updated information? Because it seems like sometimes you really aren't. They're getting boosters from the pharmaceutical companies. Okay'm not gonna go on a whole rant right now right i i guess what i'm saying is teachers are godlike figures and they're paid significantly less than

therapists and doctors yeah um not that we don't love therapists and doctors in theory. Some of them. In theory. Listen to the episode that you were on on Sludge. Yeah. A podcast that I did retire from. I mean, and we say this, you know, as God's true soldiers. Podcasters. Podcasters. So you have to take what we're saying really seriously because we went to school for 20 years.

I have a master's degree in screenwriting from Boston University. And, Kaniece? I have a master's degree in film production from Boston University. Woo! Wow. We do hate to bring it up. That was, okay, I feel like shit. And I think that's what Boston University would want. Jamie went to the university that graduates people who actually work in the field.

Oh, no. Yeah, fuck Emerson. You know, I don't disagree. Had a terrible experience there. Don't like it. That's okay. I enjoy saying it on mic. I relish saying it on mic i owe them so much money

um all right let's talk should we talk about opal yeah we're gonna talk about opal yeah that's that's i think our last remaining woman big thing i would say so what as far as my interpretation goes with opal you have a pretty standard predatory lesbian trope at play here where opal also says some very strange very incorrect things about human sexuality she says that you were neither born a lesbian or heterosexual we all have the capacity to go either way because those are the only two choices as far as sexuality goes and the most 1986 like guy dialogue and again suggesting that sexuality is a choice yep so that's of course sexuality is fluid but um not a choice so there's a scene early on i think they're only two scenes between opal and nola

the first one is opal actively coercing nola to have sex with her because nola is expressing curiosity about like what is it like to have sex with a woman as another woman and opal is just being like well you could find out if you just have sex with me right now um as perfect perfect at no point did they actually describe the ways in which lesbians have sex and so i'm wondering did spike lee know was he like tanner i also wrote that down i was like asks the question does not have a character answer it he just put it in the movie so that's like he's just like he's like i'm listening in the original yeah in the original cut his address is at the end of the movie in case you want to write him let him know it's like a po box i'm like if you know how women have sex do send a self-addressed stamped envelope to the following

and then in a later scene when we touch on this where nola is upset about her relationships falling apart opal seems to take advantage of nola's vulnerable state and kisses her without nola's consent and then that's the last we see of opal she like walks out of this scene and the movie so obviously that's extremely toxic to portray a queer character this way the series again does update and improve on this where opal is still a character but rather than being coercive and like always trying to get Nola to have sex with her. Again, Nola is pansexual and gets into a like loving and consensual relationship with Opal for a while. Oh, cool.

Yeah. I mean, I think that again, it's like when you say like Opal's character is a stereotypically predatory lesbian trope character. Like it couldn't be more true. And it also like it doesn't feel like the movie has any idea that lesbian trope character. Like it couldn't be more true. And it also like, it doesn't feel like the movie has any idea that that trope even exists. And I feel like it's because it's an auteur movie that was made on such a low budget. I'm assuming that Spike Lee was not consulting with anybody about this. And so it's like the very 1980s prejudices are coming to the table in a way

that has a cultural effect. if your first movie made for you know 175 000 happens to be you know put in the fucking library of congress which i believe this movie is yeah um yeah i found that to be so frustrating and also because it's like there's moments where it seems like the script is trying to characterize not care i mean not really characterize her very much but there's that scene with jamie and opal where jamie is so clearly in the wrong and again projecting onto opal and so rude yeah he says opal you're a very beautiful woman i never would have thought you were gay like saying things that i think the movie does recognize that he is the prejudiced asshole in that scene but then there's other but then the way that Opal's character behaves the movie

doesn't have any idea that right because like Opal responds to that comment from Jamie saying like how a person looks has no bearing on their sexuality and then he's like yeah I guess you're right which I think yeah is the movie's attempt to be like i know about lesbians see but then right but then everything else about opal's character is like no you don't but then spike lee clearly does not again it's just like it just seems like spike lee's out of his depth with that storyline um in a way that has a consequence because it's a very famous movie um i want i just wanted to give a little bit of context for the movie and how it was received because we were talking about this off mic but this movie was made for very little money it was originally shot on a budget of around

20 000 ish dollars and then eventually raised enough money for it to have i guess a total budget of 175 0005,000. But it just, again, we've talked about this with a number of filmmakers in the past, but just how marginalized filmmakers have such a steeper hill to climb to have their first project produced. I forget what our last conversation about this was. And but in comparison to a number of white male auteurs i think that wes anderson is always the one that we jumped to because it was like he got a multi-million dollar project based off of a

two-minute short film that he made and they're like king like you've done it you're the wonder kin give it to this child because i think he was like 26 when he made his first movie yeah yeah and it's and it's just like framed as like this hero's journey. And Spike Lee is in his 20s when he makes this movie. But it's just like listening to the significantly more difficult time that he had in getting the movie made. Oh, yeah. I'm seeing here from our favorite scholarly journal, Wikipedia. Yeah. original like 12 day shoot began with eighteen thousand dollars from the new york state council on the arts a ten thousand dollar grant from the jerome foundation and five hundred dollars from

the brooklyn arts and cultural association thanks wow crafty for the day i'm sure that's all they could afford who knows but um and then it's insulting i'd be like keep it i'd use it yeah i'll take it um and then that wasn't enough to get the movie through post-production so then spike lee showed a rough cut at nyu and he said i'm spike lee and i hope you liked this film i'll be calling you soon about money. Give me money. Yeah, which I mean, it's what he had to he did what he had to do. But it's all that to say, it shouldn't have been that hard. I just that Wes Anderson story always breaks my brain. It makes me so mad. Yeah, I'm never gonna get over it. It haunts me. So yeah, but I mean, fortunately,

this movie was extremely successful it like made seven million dollars at the box office off of a shoestring budget and then completely you know like launched spike lee's career into the stratosphere another word that i feel like is a kind of like goofy word but um i a meaningful sky bitchy i was gonna say with my words that i have control over um that we didn't mention this when we talked about the mars character but this is just such a bizarre i'm like i don't even know what to do with this the mars blackman character was later used in nike commercials with michael jordan so like someone at nike i mean i'm sure a lot of people in nike saw she's gotta have it and their takeaway from the movie was wow mars

blackman is such a cool character and he wears nikes we should have him make commercials with michael jordan for shoes like it's such a weird idea but the commercials are really funny isn't okay correct me if i'm wrong i might be completely misremembering this but wasn't the movie space jam basically made because there were commercials with again michael jordan and like bugs bunny and then they were like we should make a whole movie about this am i is that something or am i i completely remembering that incorrectly i don't know no i i was literally like ask princess i don't know i like i assume that princess knows most fun facts about space jam we might have

talked about i'll just go back and listen to the episode but i'm like that i was like that and if that's true for like mars blackman in a commercial with michael jordan michael jordan in a later commercial with bugs bunny space jam michael jordan is an effective marketer true it's always been i bet but just like i just think it's so bizarre that i don't know like just the cultural impact of this movie is so gigantic that a a b character from an indie movie was in a nike commercial that's wild that's so bizarre i love it i say oh my gosh that's so wild but like truly the show that has won best comedy for like two years is based on an espn 2 commercial oh ted las Ted Lasso? Yeah, right. You know, we just

have to accept, yep, this is going to be the basis and sometimes the result of art. I love intellectual property. It's beautiful. Does anyone have any other thoughts on the film? I have two

small closing thoughts. Did you guys like her art her art i thought it was very 80s okay cool i was like uh i'm watching this and i'm looking at this art and i'm like i don't think this is supplementing her income to the point where she could afford this apartment is that wild and i i i just looked at i'm like i think i literally looked at it and was like i guess that's what art was like in the 80s which is wild because i've seen art from the 80s and it doesn't look like that um i've heard that is one thing that we didn't say is like i appreciated i it sounds like that it's given a lot more narrative significance in the tv show but that we do know what nola does even even though it is kind of a Carrie Bradshaw situation

of like, how could this lead to this home? But we know what she does and we see that it matters to her. We see her working on it and we see enough of it that we can be like, it's not even that good. I wouldn't hang it in my apartment. I also would not hang it in mine.

It's not for me, but I'm happy that it's afforded her a million dollar apartment. So that's, so someone's for me. Yeah. But I'm happy that it's afforded her a million dollar apartment. So that's so someone's loving it. Yeah. Hell yeah. And then what was your other? I've completely forgotten it.

Please just delete that. It's gone. I'm so sorry. My last thought was the real protagonist of this movie is New York City. I love it. Don't you love a love letter to the city but also seriously spike lee like used his own brother's photography of like brooklyn to like mark the passage of time i just the family elements to this movie i thought were very sweet that's like nepotism i can get

behind because it's not even nepotism if you need your family as employees on your movie like he had like multiple people in his family he had working as like production assistants and it's like i will pay you if i can get the money and so it's like it just seemed more like a i don't know like mickey rooney judy garland like we gotta put on a show folks like by any means necessary and like got it done and then i i mean i hope spike lee at this point has paid his family for working on she's gotta have it right he is a multi-millionaire yes i guess my final thought is that and i'm also i'm like basically horizontal right now i'm like lying down so much you have started to say we were eye to eye and now you've switched quite a bit part of it is

i and i might cut this out but part of it is i have to poop so badly and i'm just kind of like sitting here trying to like leave it in i made those vegetables and chalked you full of fiber oh and i've got ice cream blowing our asses out tonight i'm gonna go home and have an experience yeah so mostly this posture is me just holding oh my god okay let's finish it passes the bechdel test no i i have this important thing to say that i'm okay okay okay which is that that this is a movie again directed by a man in the 80s, a famously not very progressive time, that is mostly commenting on the toxicity of a lot of different types of men

and empowering a woman, especially in a way that women have historically been so disempowered that's very cool again there were missteps along the way it wasn't handled perfectly in every regard but that that is like what this movie boils down to is fucking cool i agree and i also this was something that like was again and this is like extreme grain of salt because this is what was brought up more in the time when it was first being reviewed but a movie that focuses on the sex life of a like middle to upper middle class black woman which is like wasn't really happening and a lot of reviewers sort of made note of like many of the popular stereotypes around black

american characters at this time and how this movie just like existed outside of that world entirely and it's like here is our protagonist here are three shitty dudes let's go right and it always goes back to like who's making the movies that perpetuate those stereotypes shitty uneducated white people right and yes sometimes highly educated they're like i have so many degrees and i still have not learned what black people are what are they do you know any looking and then they put their po box at the end of the movie if you have any insight please s-a-s-e um yes it does pass the bechdel test but not too much very much not enough that it gets

scary i would yeah it's mostly between her and opal and those conversations are again opal trying to coerce her into sex so it's not good and then as far as our nipple scale zero to five nipples based on examining the movie through an intersectional feminist lens. Oh, I would go with like a three and a half, I think, for this one. It's obviously getting some nipplage docked off for the extreme mishandling of the sexual assault and the predatory lesbian character the failure to further explore nola's relationships with any female friends and only just like getting a very small glimpse of that aspect of her life this is a small thing and i'm sure it is like related to

budget stuff but i just thought it was like interesting that they showed her dad and they made mention of her mom being alive and well, but at work and like could not come. She's at work. Can we get like a shot? A shot. That was very. It would have been nice to have her. It felt weird when he said that.

Yeah. He was like, and my wife, we're still together. She's at work. I kind of wonder if that was like a production thing of like, we were supposed to, but like Spike's mom couldn't make it today. And so they're like, he's like, oh, just say she's at work i kind of wonder if that was like a production thing of like we were supposed to but like spike's mom couldn't make it today and so they're like he's like oh just say she's at work or like if if spike lee's mom is anything like my mom she does not want to be photographed so maybe she was just like i support you so much shouted at your mom's vagina on mic today caitlin so it's no wonder oh that was the other thing oh whoa it's not about although i do think she was like if you can't pay me honey i'm gonna go

to my job where i support this family was at work like i'm not gonna take a day off to not get paid like the rest of the family is working on your little project so someone's gotta go to work but the other thing that i wanted to say is bold move to have your first movie feature like a nice close-up of you sucking on a nip what that is something that i was yeah the the movies choice i don't know like i wasn't like i feel like sometimes when uh again uh god we gotta when men who make movies by themselves there's another tendency usually when you're not inviting a lot of feedback that sometimes the sex scenes are leering and creepy and gross i didn't think that this movie fell into that even though

i did i mean kenny's and i i think it was a personal preference thing i didn't think that this movie fell into that even though i did i mean kenny's and i i think it was a personal preference thing we didn't love the belly button thing i don't think it was offensive sure spike lee sticks his tongue fully into a belly button and kind of swizzles it around like he's searching for something like it's a sommelier a belly button i didn't love it but again that's not a chrisism that's just a little kink shaming it did it didn't feel good for it but that's you know but that's why there's all sorts of people that's true so three and a half you were saying i'm so sorry uh reminder i have to poop no um yeah so three and a half nipples i will give one to nola one to

clarinda i would have loved to see that friendship more on screen i'll give one to nola's mom who presumably would have been played by Spike Lee's mom, but she's like, no thanks. I don't want to be in a movie. And then I'll give the half nipple to the scene where Nola and her three lovers are playing Scrabble together, which is, again, a sexual fantasy I have. I'll meet you there at three and a half.

I think this movie is doing so much that no movie in 1986 was doing. I think that the mistakes we have unpacked and are extremely glaring and I found very upsetting. I was gently encouraged that at least Spike Lee has, you know, engaged in the discussion around it

and has admitted where he is wrong and it seems like has course corrected in his future work i haven't seen all of his future work but um i don't i don't think that this is a recurring problem for him so and i think that we sort of i want caitlin to be able to poop so i'll say three and a half i'm gonna give uh i'll give two to Nola and I will give one to the Phantom of the Opera bed. And I will give the last half nipple to New York city. Ever heard of it? Ever heard of it? I am going to ride this three and a half train.

I think if you had asked me when I first saw it 10 years ago, it was more than 10 years ago. You said like 10 years ago. And more than 10 years ago you said like 10 years ago and i was like i wish no i like being my age it's great but i i'm gonna hurry up because i know you have to poop it's honestly fine okay i really do want you to you shouldn't have told us this because now we're so invested we will sit around while you do it and we'll chat i wonder how's it going in there girl women supporting women let's get a hashtag going let caitlin poop let's get i'll get i'll get the merch drafted tonight

yes i know i haven't made new merch in two years but i think that this is really going to bring me out of retirement oh my god i would love that yeah uh i would have given it three nips when i first saw it just because i was like well this seems kind of fucked up but because we were interpreting it as her getting her comeuppance versus like her like it's still again very bad but at least she has like power and agency at the end of this and it is her story throughout so right now three and a half okay two to nola half to mars blackman as a character because that was he was in a nike commercial i mean you can't take that from him he does suck but he's also so likable

as a person just like spike lee is just extremely likable the closing shot because they do like the cast basically like introduces themselves with the slate at the end and then spike lee's the last one you're like man he's so fun yeah you gotta love him it's fun because he's like action okay my name cut because he's the director and you're like that's you dude this is your movie that's like the correct amount of ego i don't know how he struck the balance but that is like the exact you can't go more yeah you can't go more but that was perfect i so and the gave me all that was two more please mr police the police i can't i was about to say something bad um no and then i'll give one to okay the remaining nipples i can't do math so don't ask me to the remaining nipples go to the scene between well actually all of the sex scenes

because even now it is not super common for like a black woman and a black man to be naked together having sex especially like neither of them is light-skinned and that's always like a thing they're like we got a black person i mean and you can barely tell but come on we got one but this is like no these people are definitely black they're they're dark dark dark although spike lee is the only one who doesn't show his butt and i was like we see everyone else's butt but we don't see how good catch wow see now that's the kind of ego that it's like everyone else showed their butt do you want to be in the movie or not yeah it's like you can't be hotter than me and you all have to show your butts and i don't okay and i'm the director okay but yeah i like that because i feel like she's strong

she's in power so many other images especially at that time of darker skinned black women and darker skin in american sense not in the african sense you get it we're like these like sex crazed deficient people and to show someone who's like i had a good family i had a good childhood i like sex i know how i live isn't for everybody but this is how I live. And I'm very upfront about it. And I really, I really appreciated that.

She's not getting her value from the men she's having sex with, which is what a lot of portrayals of black women were before that. Okay, I'm done. Please go poop. Well, you got to tell, first of all,

thanks for being on the show. Canese five timer. Tell all those other people who were, like, close to me in the number of times that they've been on the show that they can, okay, they can try to come for me, but come on. Come on. We will have to set up a duel. Okay. I will fight them.

I don't know. We'll see. Okay. So, yes, thank you for coming back for a fifth time. Always such a treat to have you. How can people follow you online and check out your stuff, plug all of your upcoming show dates,

et cetera. Okay, I will. Okay, so you can find information about me at kinesemobily.com. That's where you'll see show dates and more information. Okay, first off, on Thursdays, 10 p.m., check out my show.

Caitlin's done it twice. You're the only person who's done it twice. Make yourself cry. Where's my smoking jacket? When you do it five times, I be a jacket i get it will i'll get it at goodwill and i'll sew a little patch on and everything i know some good mouths if you yeah yeah we gotta get i mean you gotta figure out your union but i'll let you know i'm i'm busting it so it's been hard uh but yeah the show is called make yourself cry. It is on planet scum, which is Chris Gethard's Twitch channel.

I did not know those words before, but you should come. You should watch it. It's funny. It's heartfelt, et cetera. Watch the episodes with Caitlin. I think one of them is still on my Instagram.

So check that out on February 18th. Come see me at club coming in New York city. I will be running my hour in preparation for my album recording. Also, I'm in Boston, February, whatever the weekend of Valentine's Day. I don't keep it in my heart because I don't have someone I love. I will be in Boston doing comedy. So come there. And then if you happen to live in Tennessee, a city called Bristol,

if you happen to live there, i'll be doing a weekend there in march so you know go incredible i bet we have at least one listener who lives in bristol tennessee if you do please come because your presence will make me feel safer i'm one of those terrible city people that is terrified as soon as i go to a place with trees so i need women and i need black people please come so i feel safe okay hell yeah uh i haven't wait can i plug your show i just got excited i do have to poop but it's fine oh i'm so i took so long i'm sorry no please jamie no caitlin please jamie please uh you can come see my solo show.

I never, I don't know why I don't play it. You can come see my solo show that I'm working on in Los Angeles at the Elysian Theater. It's called Mrs. Joseph Chestnut, America, USA. I play hot dog eating champion, Joey Chestnut's ex-wife, and he steals my intestines and then I kill him. And that's what, that's the whole show. So if you can't see it, that's what happens.

But that's going to be on February 17th at nine o'clock at the Elysian theater. And we would love to have some Bechtel cast listeners there. And, you know, a perfect way to come off of Valentine's day is watch a show about hot dog divorce. And as far as the bechtel cast goes you can find us uh everywhere that you get uh your social media addiction

scratched um we've got an instagram we've got a twitter they're both bechtel cast you can sign up for our patreon aka matreon at patreon.com slash bechtel cast you get two extra episodes every month we're doing what are we calling it jane austin january slash austin august ember and so we're covering uh anya taylor joy emma and pride and prejudice the other movie you watched in college um so for everyone who's been requesting jane austin episodes for five years years we finally decided to listen once yes and then you can get our merch at tpublic.com slash

the Bechtel cast be on the lookout for hashtag let Caitlin poop shirts I will force you to make these text every day where's my poop sherry what an amazing friendship uh oh wow so yeah that's you can get our merch um and wow what a what a joyful time our first in-person recording, I couldn't have asked

for a better one. And probably, honestly, our last for a while. We don't do this very often. We all got tested. We're all very safe, et cetera,

et cetera. Please don't come for me. Okay, thanks. Yeah, no, we were, we were safe,

but this, this just worked out perfectly. So, you know, happy day you're having and Caitlin's got to poop. Bye. Bye.

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