The Bechdel Cast - Sisterhood of the Traveling Pants with Mary Houlihan

Episode Date: July 5, 2018

This week, Jamie Loftus and Caitlin Durante plus special guest Mary Houlihan all take turns wearing a very cute pair of jeans during their discussion of The Sisterhood of the Traveling Pants.(This episode contains spoilers) For Bechdel bonuses, sign up for our Patreon at patreon.com/bechdelcast.Follow @MaryHoulie Twitter! While you're there, you should also follow @BechdelCast, @caitlindurante and @jamieloftusHELP Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Daphne Caruana Galizia was a Maltese investigative journalist who on October 16th 2017 was assassinated. Crooks Everywhere unearthed the plot to murder a one-woman WikiLeaks. She exposed the culture of crime and corruption that were turning her beloved country into a mafia state. Listen to Crooks Everywhere on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. To listen to new episodes one week early and 100% ad-free, subscribe to the iHeart True Crime Plus channel, available exclusively on Apple Podcasts. In California during the summer of 1975, within the span of 17 days and less than 90 miles, two women did something no other woman had done before, try to assassinate the president of the United States. One was the protege of Charles Manson.

26-year-old Lynette Fromm, nicknamed Squeaky. The other, a middle-aged housewife working undercover for the FBI. Identified by police as Sarah Jean Moore. The story of one strange and violent summer. This season on the new podcast, Rip Current. Hear episodes of Rip Current early and completely ad-free and receive exclusive bonus content by subscribing to iHeartTrue Crime Plus only on Apple Podcasts.

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on Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. On the Bechdelcast, the questions asked if movies have women in them. Are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands, or do they have individualism? The patriarchy's effing vast. Start changing it with the Bechdelcast. Hi, my name is Jamie Loftus. And my name is Caitlin Durante. And you're listening to The Bechdel Cast. This is our podcast about women in movies. That's right.

We talk about the representation of women in movies and how it's usually pitiful. Wow. Yeah. Coming in hot. Coming in hot. Coming in hot. You're listening to our podcast. If you haven't listened before, what's wrong with you? What the freak are you doing?

But you're doing good on the back end. You're joining us now. That's good. So, yes, we talk about movies in relation to their female characters, and we use the Bechdel test as a jumping off point to start that conversation. The test invented by cartoonist Alison Bechdel in the 1980s that requires a piece of media have a scene and exchange between two women with names. They must be talking about something other than a man for more than two lines of dialogue. And wouldn't you know it, most movies do not pass this test.

Do you want to hear me take a really tiny bite of chip? I guess. Ready? This is the ASMR part. That was really, that was a good shout out to the Sun Chips. We're not sponsored by Sun Chips, but that was a hell of a crunch. Sun Chips. Crunch on one today.

So we are now on the HowStuffWorks network, and we're so happy to be here. Yeah. And we wanted to introduce a new member of our Bechtel team. She is our new producer, Sophie Lichterman. Hi, guys. Thanks for helping us. Yay.

Hooray. Sophie and Aristotle, the power team. That's right. Squad. Yes. So now you know Sophie, and you're about to know our guest for today's episode. Also Nick's here today. And Nick is here.

Aristotle is still with us, but he couldn't be at today's recording, so we have our pal Nick subbing in today. What else can we say? Aristotle recently got a haircut. I think it looks really nice. His birthday's coming up. When this gets released, it will have passed. He'll already be 26 years old for crying out loud. Wow. Wow. I leaked it. I leaked it. Anyways. So let's also introduce our guest. She is a comedian, an artist, an animator, and the host of Mary Houlihan's little podcast, Mary Houlihan.

Hello. Welcome, Mary. Sun chips. It's a hell of a crunch. She's an entertainer. Wow. She's good, right? It's really good.

Cool. So today we are talking about The Sisterhood of the Traveling Pants. Real summer movie. A 2005 flick taking place in the summer. So welcome to summer, everybody. Welcome to summer, bitches. It's hot out there. Wow. So you should stay inside and listen to our podcast instead. And the teens are wearing pants in the summer. Wow. I think maybe of all the disbelief you have to suspend is the fact that people are wearing full denim in Mexico in the summer. That to me is, you know, the true test of friendship.

That's right. So, Mary, when did you first see this movie? What's your history, your relationship with the Sisterhood of the Traveling Pants franchise? It came out in 2005, so I wasn't born yet. J.K., I don't think I saw it in a theater, so I wasn't born yet. JK. I don't think I saw it in a theater, but I think I rented it. Don't remember if I watched it alone or with friends. Either is possible.

Maybe you had a sisterhood there. Maybe not. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I also read the book. So you have some exposure to it prior to this. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Jamie, what about you? I loved this movie when it came out i loved the books i went with my two cousins and the one

friend we made between the three of us who was not directly related to us shout out lindsey tangway our one friend um so that was like our group of four and we went to see this movie we figured out who was who it was all very exciting um yeah i really loved this book series first and then i mean 2005 you've got it all you've got america ferreira coming in from her disney channel original movie that i really liked gotta kick it up great movie uh You got Rory Gilmore, the world's worst actress in the thing. You got Joan of Arcadia. And you've got Blake Lively, who's not even famous yet. It's very exciting. It's just I saw this movie in theaters. We watched it at sleepovers afterwards. I read all the books. Love it. Nice. Yes, very very good i had read the books when i was in high

school and i would say i was a little too old for them at the time because i remember reading the part where blake lively's character bridget it's heavily implied that she loses her virginity but it is not explicitly stated at all and i was just like why aren't they just talking about it they should just come out and say it in the book and i was like i was too old and too cool to like be reading literature that was like beating around the bush in terms of talking about sex i was like i'm too cool for this i want stuff that talks about sex directly timing is everything with like a series like this where when you come in, because when I read these books, I would have been in like fifth grade or something where I would have believed anything this book told me about what teenage girls did. Because I was like, oh, yeah, sure.

What? We were talking about this in the car on the way over. How I have this very clear memory of the second installment in the book series where there is like the Blake Lively character, Bea. In the second movie, she like gains 10 pounds during the summer and it's like made out to be like and this is the worst thing that ever happened to her and she had to jog because and i just like that specific passage stuck with me so like i don't know yeah when you read books like this when you are a child, I still think about that a couple times a year. The fictional character that gained 10 pounds once. Yeah, it's almost as if media for young people has a responsibility to, you know, not send out damaging,

harmful messages. Yeah, but it still does all the time. I so had read the books and I was not necessarily impressed with them even though I read all three, I'm pretty sure. And then I was like, I'm not going to see the movie. Also at this time, I was reading a series of books called Angus, Thongs and Full Frontal Snogging. Those are really good. Yeah, that's a good series. I hesitate to return to them

because what if it's not? But I loved them. No, it's good. It's good. I was also way too old for those when I read those, and I was similarly not impressed. But I liked that it was like, ha ha ha, snogging. Snogging? Those were funny.

Come on, didn't you think they were funny? I was like 18, so no. Kayla, what were you reading? It was way too cool my yeah i mean it's one of those it is like one of those series that i feel like girls like you just had to read them for some reason like i read all the twilight books i feel nothing for that franchise in particular but i read them all because i felt same with harry potter my mom tried to get do i we've discussed this my mom tried to give me her crusty ass copy of 50 shades I'm like I'm not I'm not reading a book covered in my mom's cum I'm

simply not but you know and that was when I found I had aged out of having to read books just because I felt like I had to and now I know it sounds like and I haven't read a book since. Books are for losers. And I think that's why I picked them. You're into hacking now. You're into just hacking. Yeah, I'm spending a lot of time in the mainframe. So there's other ways to get data other than analog books. She's a code girl.

Okay, so anyway, the Sisterhood of the Traveling Pans. Shall I do the recap yes so this movie centers around four lifelong friends bridget lena carmen and tibby and they have been friends like since before they were born because their mothers all met in a aerobics class while they were all freaking pregnant as hell but never became dates similar due dates as well right so i guess they just like met as babies all in the delivery room question mark and then have been friends ever since i'm not really sure but anyway so they're now 16 they are best friends and it is the summer and this is the first summer that they're spending apart because Lena is going off to Greece to visit her grandparents.

Bridget is going off to soccer camp in Mexico. Carmen is going to South Carolina to visit her dad. Who is from the West Wing and it's distracting. Also the dad in Get Out. Oh, yeah. Awesome. He looks old in Get Out. Eric from Billy Madison. That's right. Oh, yeah. Awesome. He looks old in Get Out. Eric from Billy Madison.

That's right. Oh, yeah. He tries to shoot Billy. What a career this man has had. Peak, peak 2005. Bradley Whitford. Shouts out Brad. Anyways.

Okay. And then so Tibby is staying in Bethesda, Maryland, where they're all from and they all live. And she is working at, is it Wallman's? Which is basically a Walmart knockoff. These are their summer plans. And like the day before they all part ways, they are at a thrift store and they find this pair of jeans that somehow mysteriously fits them all perfectly, even though they have

different heights and weights and body shapes. And they're like, wow, these are a magical pair of pants. I would argue that there's exactly two body shapes between the four of them, which I realized for the first time watching this movie. I'm like, oh, my God, there's only two. Like Alexis Bledel and Amber Tamlin and Blake Lively have basically the same body. Any girl. Yeah, they're all skinny white girls.

And it's like this is actually not that amazing anyway right no it's but blake is so tall she's so tall that's true how does blake not have a camel toe in these pants she's so tall like what anyways sorry so yeah so they this pair of pants magically fits them all and they decide they're like oh my god they're these magic pants we should share them throughout the summer send them to each other in our respective places and it'll it'll help keep us together and then we'll write letters and they like make this whole manifesto and it's a gorgeous framing device and i love it it works i love it i love that i love the rule where you can't wash it that's disgusting you're wearing full length denim in mexico in august and you are not allowed to watch it

yeah but only you can take them off looking at you slutty one that's what they say and then and then blake lathley was like who me i was like why are you okay with why are you okay with that's like her thing yeah she's the samantha of the bunch yeah we've got a miranda we've got a samantha whoever the other characters are we've got some of those too and then i guess america ferrara is our carry because she's like she's the writer oh wow i didn't even really think miranda is is um tibby tibby obviously and then lena would be charlotte that totally does track it tracks so hard wow wow wild anyway so so Lena's in Greece she meets a cute boy who is arguably too old for her uh named Costos and he lives on a boat

I don't know if he lives on a boat but he definitely spends a lot of time on a boat. So she and him start to feel feelings for each other, but their families are feuding. So like her grandma's trying to keep them apart. Meanwhile, in the soccer camp in Mexico, Bridget is seeing this cute boy who's a coach, but there's like a strict no dating coaches policy. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense right that should be the rule did they ever say how old this character is 40 he's 21 21 and she's 17 16 she says she's 17 oh she says she might be lying oh that's because women be lying all the time it's so true you can't trust them or, or I wouldn't be shocked if the people making this movie were like, oh, what are the consent rules?

And we've got to make her, she was born in September. Oh, was it different in the book? I feel like I remember it being different in the book, but maybe I'm just thinking that since that's like a more scandalous story. But wouldn't that make no sense that she would be older than them? Because weren't they all born within a week of each other? Yeah. So why would she be 17?

So is everyone else. They say they're 16 at the beginning. Yeah. So unclear what that's all about. But she might be 16. Anyway, so she starts crushing on this hot coach, Eric. All bangs at her. All bangs.

Blonde bangs. No personality. That's that story uh then carmen is arriving in south carolina with her dad and then surprise he has a new family surprise it's josh lyman from the west wing yeah and he's marrying a white bitch. A fucking white kid. That's such a weird scene where America Ferrera is like, dad, blah, blah, blah. And they're getting along great. And then he's just like, sorry for burying the lead. Meet my white family.

I was like, oh, you can't just do. Although it did remind me a little bit. I wonder if it reminded you, too, of The Parent Trap. Oh. When Dennis Quaid's like, by the way, here's Meredith. Yeah. And it's like, you can't just do oh when dennis quaid's like by the way here's meredith yeah you can't just do this to a kid it's not fair true anyways so she's dealing with that and then finally tibby is making a documentary oh more like a documentary and she meets this 12 year old girl named bailey who takes an interest in helping her with this

documentary even though they kind of get off to a rough start because they're both very stubborn it's a cancer kid narrative i find it very frustrating yes she it's revealed that she has leukemia and is sick the second she it's revealed that she has leukemia the bailey character immediately only begins speaking in like dove candy bar phrases like this set she's an interesting dynamic character and then they have that exchange where it's well i mean we'll get into it but like oh god i hate i hate i hate i hate narratives like this they're so lazy yeah not great so yeah with each of these stories, Bridget ends up sleeping with this guy who she's been, like, very aggressively pursuing. He's a soccer coach.

And then she sinks into a depression. Well, because we didn't say her mother committed suicide, which we find out at the beginning of the movie. Yes. So she's dealing with some grief issues, possibly some health issues uh that i would argue do not get explored very um responsibly in this movie um then lena finally confronts her family about like don't try to keep me away from this boy i love him and he's helping me figure out that i can feel love and have feelings and also the conflict was over like fish from 20 years ago so they're all kind of like ah yeah i guess it's fine right um and then carmen

confronts her dad and is like she's like i'm really angry at you because you left me when i was 10 and traded me in for a better family or a different family that it seems like you think is better and she confronts him about it and then for reasons that i don't fully understand, goes to his wedding. Well, the other three girls say that she would be sad if she didn't go. Right. And then Tibby and Bailey are getting closer. And does Bailey die at the end? She does, yeah.

Oh. They don't explicitly, I don't think that they explicitly say it, but it's implied. And then you see Tibby and Brian McBrien, who is my crush from this movie brian mcbryan with a gamer with a hat um very much your type yeah my my little hacking queen who hangs out at a gas station all day yeah so she she does dive in the books she for sure does

i don't think that they stayed it i don't i didn't. That's why I wasn't sure. It's up to you. Well, you see how she that child is lit in the last scene. Yeah. God's coming for her and fast. It's so overblown where they have like purple eye shadow under her eyes. And she's like lit by the moon. And it's like, oh, can we? I'm done. I'm done with this.

I was enjoying this character, but you had to kill it. So Amber Tamblyn could learn a lesson. Right, which is, I guess that it's okay to be, I don't even know what the lesson is, but anyway. It's okay to be dead. I hope that all of our listeners of the Bechdel cast recognize that it's okay to be dead. Nothing to be ashamed of. If you're dead, that it's okay to be ashamed. If you're dead, that's chill. You can still enjoy our podcast.

You can still rock it. Listen, you can still sign up for our Patreon even if you're dead. Well, on that note, I think we should perhaps take a quick break. What do you say? Let's take a break. All right. Keep your pants on. We'll be right back. Daphne Caruana Galizia was a Maltese investigative journalist who on October 16th, 2017, was murdered.

There are crooks everywhere you look now. The situation is desperate. My name is Manuel Delia. I am one of the hosts of Crooks Everywhere, a podcast that unhearts the plot to murder a one-woman Wikileaks. Daphne exposed the culture of crime and corruption that were turning her beloved country

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We're back! I had to go change my traveling pants. I had to write a journal entry on my pants and then give it to Caitlin. Because that's how you be friends with girls. Positive female friendship. That's kind of one of the first things I wanted to mention is that I like that this movie is about sisterhood and about female friendship. Yeah. Especially for like this age group.

But we don't actually get to see them be friends on screen that much. Right. Beginning and the end. I mean, that's the way the story is structured. So it'd be weird if it wasn't like that but it's just like okay well if you're gonna make a movie about like female friendship why not have it be about female friendship where we see them being friends but it crosses i don't know i like how it i i mean that's inherent to the structure of the story so i'm fine

with that i i was pleasantly surprised i forgot that they came together at the end in such a meaningful way um i because it sort of seemed like the kind of thing where it could have just been like and now they're home and they're going back to school yeah i don't know something i liked about it was that like this story does a pretty good job of even when you're in one of the girls like areas of like Lena will still be talking about her friends and how much she loves them while she's in Greece. And Tibby is talking to her child whose parents we never see either about her friend. Like everyone is like remembering their friends and they're writing each other letters. And it's like, yeah, that's true.

It's nice i like when they say when america ferreira's writer character is like i forget how she qualifies she like qualifies all of them but she's like tibby the rebel uh oh i wrote these down if you want to hear yes please um bridget is well first she's like it's almost like the four of us form one complete person and it's like shouldn't you all be one complete person no you're 16 i guess um so bridget is wild and unstoppable lena is that's a fun way of saying we think she's slutty because that's what they keep saying and anyways uh lena is shy and beautiful tibby is the rebel and carmen is the writer although do we see carmen right at all i think that this it's supposed to be her writing okay her telling of the story i see okay much much like sex in the city right yeah i do enjoy that it is a story about female friendship, because I think in a lot of movies, especially about girls of this age, it's something like Mean Girls or Heathers or different other ones that we've done on the podcast and just other movies in general, where it's a lot of like antagonistic feelings towards other girls, like girl on girl hate and pettiness and things like that so at the very least i enjoy

that this is a movie about like pure female friendship and in the beginning they say like love your sisters and love yourself i'm just like oh that's a nice message for you know the tween girls who are probably reading this and watching this yeah and they all are like very different and like accepting of that i think with the exception of occasionally how they treat Blake Lively, they're all very accepting of each other, and they're encouraging each other to feel good about their bodies and about themselves. And there's a few scenes where America Ferreira's character is being down on her body because she is the only person in this group who has a different body shape no matter how many times the movie tells you otherwise.

But that said, when her character expresses insecurity, which is realistic for a 16-year-old girl, her friends are super supportive and like, what are you talking about, blah, blah, blah, and they lift each other up. It's very nice. I think by and large it's a very positive friendship that you don't see on screen a lot i would agree however if i may introduce some criticism into the

conversation caitlin's lighting the pants on fire i cannot believe this she's literally lighting the pants on fire so the the author of this book, Ann Brasharez, is that how you say your name? I don't know. Because it looks like Ann Bra Shares. So I wonder if she was like, hey, my last name looks like Bra Shares. What if I write a

book about girls who share a bra? No, that's too weird. What if they share a pair of pants, though? That's better okay i'll write this book about sharing pants that's the kind of video you'd have if you drank a tank of like boxed wine and you're like you know it'd be crazy if teenagers just like shared pants and then woke up and checked her notes out the next day and was like, no, there's something there. There's something there.

Yeah, there's three books worth of something there. So that was just a curiosity that I had. I don't know how this story originated, but I like to think that that's what it was. Can we go through the rules? Because if listeners, if you're listening, you may not remember the rules of the pants. Some rules make sense. Others, I think there's stuff to unpack there. I feel like they also skipped over a lot of them because they're like,

here's one, two, three, four, and then suddenly seven. Seven. Yeah, they do skip from four to seven. That bothers me. They also break into a yoga studio, which is fun. Also, their moms aren't friends. That's confusing. Okay. We, the sisterhood hereby

instate the following rules to govern the use of the traveling pants number one you must never wash the pants hate this rule that's rule number one rule number one that's not the first one they mentioned though this is the book okay this is canonically okay got it number two you must never double cuff the pants it's tacky yuck there will never be a time when this will not be tacky hard stance 2005 my pants are double cuffed right fucking now unbelievable and i look great i don't look hot oh oh here's a fun one oh yeah they do they skip over i would argue maybe they skip over the ones that are stupid. Three, you must never say the word fat while wearing the pants. But I guess the way it's spelled in the book is P-H-A-T.

Oh. Why? You must also never think to yourself, I am fat while wearing the pants. They do say that in the movie. Yes. You must never let a boy take off the pants, although you may take them off yourself in his presence. Do they say that in the movie? They don't.

Okay. I like that. I'm okay with the way it's written in his presence. Do they say that in the movie? They don't. Okay. I like that. I'm okay with the way it's written in the book. Yeah. But they use it as a way to call slut shame Bridget, basically. Yeah. And she's like, teehee. In the movie, it's Lena, who is our, you know, Charlotte Prude character.

And she's like, here's this rule. Only you can take off your own pants. And then she glares at Bridget. And then she's like here's this rule only you can take off your own pants and then she glares at bridget and then she's just like what me me i'm boy crazy right so that seemed a little slut shaming but and then the rest of them are kind of logistical you have to write letters you have to write on the pants you can't wear the pants with a tucked in shirt and belt. Pants equal love. Love your pals. Love yourself. And then they, toward the end of the movie, invoke a final rule that no matter the schedule, the pants have to go to the girl in need if there's like a pants emergency. Yes, there's a pants emergency because America Ferrera has to accept her dad's new white family right now.

So get those pants on, girl. Accept your white family or the movie can't end. Well, that brings me to one of the criticisms I have about this narrative, which is that three of the four stories are rooted in one of the girls' relationship to a man. It's either Bridget chasing after the soccer coach that she has a crush on, Lena and her budding relationship with Costos, or Carmen and her relationship with her father. Yeah. So, I mean, I get it.

That is an easy way to go for a story about teen girls. I think that that's a really good point, though, where, like, I do feel that all four of these characters are fully realized characters for the most part. But the fact that the core, like, we see them have this really positive relationship and then they're separated and it's mostly like the conflict is with a man uh with the exception of tibby and i have like a separate issue with her narrative should we just take it like gal by gal yeah let's do it sure yeah oh before we start though like i have to ask who's your faves ladies who's your fame well i would say i identify most closely with tibby i'm a tibby myself yeah you know i'm just like a rebel and i like say ass sometimes like swear i don't like babies i don't like anyone i i wonder did everyone want to be tibby

because i also wanted to be Tibby. And there was a lot of friction within my group of who would be Tibby. Because I think we all wanted to be her. She's the cool one. She's the cool one. She has the best hair. Yeah, I wanted to be Tibby. But in reality, I don't know who I am.

I don't know who I am. Well, I also was Bridget. I was a soccer player at the time, and I'm still a soccer player. Huge brag. Yes. So I was like, you know, there's parts of all of them that I enjoy. I also, I would say my favorite character is actually probably Carmen.

She's my fave. But I would say, for me personally, I feel like I'm mostly a Tibby. Now, is Tibby a Slytherin? And also, which Ninja Turtle is she? So there's like a lot of... We could really get into it. Also, and how does this fit into the universe of book club? Yes. Very good question, Jamie.

That's a whole other thing. Well, we figured out who we are in book club, and that's a big relief. Sure. I was Diane. Caitlin, who were you? I don't remember. Oh, I forget. We were so drunk at that movie.

I forget. But I was Diane. You were Diane Keaton. I fucked the pilot. That's all I know. I really loved that movie. It was not good. It was very bad.

Anyway, okay. So who should we start with? Let's start with the most boring one. Let's start with Lena. Okay. She's the most boring one. Her storyline is largely her relationship with Kostos and her relationship with her grandparents, specifically her grandmother. So her grandmother finds out that she's been seeing this boy.

Their families have been feuding for decades. In this weird, like, West Side Story-y, like, something about fish a long time ago. And then Costas is like, all I know is that I'm shirtless and you're pretty. And so who cares about fish? And everyone's like, yes yes i don't know there's a few times where that character kind of like skeezes me out because he does keep showing up even after

she's like no leave me alone kind of and he does i don't know i mean she rejects him twice right first when they meet and okay so he has to save her number one they meet because she falls into the water because she's like staring at him because she's like oh he cute she like hillary duffs directly into a body of water right and then the genes that are supposed to be so magical get caught on this like hook and she's like trapped underwater so he has to come and save her and then she's like oh my god thank you for saving my life she's like sitting on his boat and then he's like should we go dancing later and she's like no i have to go and then she runs away and he's like but what and she's like no he also comes in hot by being like you know i live on this boat it's like this is not a brag you should not be telling her i don't

think he lives on the boat doesn Doesn't he live on a boat? I don't. No, I don't think so. I was like years thinking he lived on that boat. It's a boat. It's like 20 square feet. He lived in like a platoon. I thought he was a boat person.

This is not the movie Adrift. But speaking of boats, the most important thing about this storyline is that, much like Titanic, Lena draws Kostos like one of her Greek boys. Ooh, she does. Yeah, that's true. And she even does the same thing where she's like, stop, stay still. And he's like, no. And she's like, hee hee hee, I like him.

Yeah, he's just an object. It's not cool. There is one point where Lena is like having her her arc is like almost interesting at certain points where she like is like i feel so guilty because my friends have actual problems i don't actually have a problem but i still feel so like closed off and sad which is like a very teenager-y thing i was like okay cool i'm on board for this where's this going i still have those feelings right now right it's like a normal thing-y thing. I was like, okay, cool, I'm on board for this. Where is this going? I still have those feelings right now. Right.

It's like a normal thing. But then it's like she gets so stressed out that she starts taking off her clothes and is about to jump into the... And then Costas, why is he there? He's right there. Why is he behind the stairs? Because he's following her all the time.

He's behind the stairs. And then he's like, I'll also launch myself into the waves. Right. And then they hook up the kiss um but yeah this is after several times of her so after she finds out that their families are feuding she goes to return his shirt but she's like no i can't we can't talk and blah blah and he's like but it's a beautiful day and she's like no get away from me so she rejects him a number of times but it but then she she does pursue him because she goes to

his fish market yeah and then she draws him like one of her greek boys and then much like in titanic where billy zane finds the drawing later on her lena's grandmother finds the drawing and she's like what is this all about and she's like i love him oh yeah this isn't nothing she has like a shirtless picture of it's weird to me that they do such like a weird destination-y move that ultimately it's like this could this storyline could have been way more about like lena getting to know her family and lena getting to know her culture a little bit. Right. Would have been interesting. And it seems like that's the direction it's going to go to since they go through the trouble of flying Alexis Bledel to Greece. But then it's sort of like everything else that happens could have arguably happened almost anywhere.

Yeah. So it's weird. Well, the worst part about this storyline to me is that he gets her to realize because this is what she says uh that she can feel she can feel feelings and she can let love in which like i suppose it would take a potential romantic partner to help you realize that but i don't know that's just become a trope where it's like closed off girl who doesn't know how to do emotions a boy comes around and teaches her how to do it but and also it doesn't make sense for like your first teen relationship that's more like a you've been

burned before so you are closed off in a self-preserving way and i think this is maybe one of perhaps the first time i've ever said this in the like 80 something episodes we've done but there are a few underwritten male characters in this story that make it a little like that never happens like the costos character i don't quite know where he's coming from and then the same goes for eric the soccer coach where it's like you don't really know that much about them you're like i don't necessarily understand what what he's handsome right and for bridget she never goes beyond she's not like i love him she just has like a very physical attraction to him well they're the only young people in town right just the two of them oh and in greece yeah they're the only young people in like who are they gonna hang

out right i think that's true i think that her realizing that she loved him was a bit of a jump. And this is something we see in a lot of movies where two characters fall in love, but we don't necessarily understand why they love each other or what is compatible about them and their personalities. Because at least one of them is super underdeveloped. Usually it's the woman who's super underdeveloped and we don't understand why the man loves her but in this case i would argue that it's it is the cost is yeah one last thing about um lena's character to me the worst part of this storyline is that she has this big reconciliation where she confronts her family for being like don't tell me who i can and can't love like i'm gonna make my own choices and I can feel my own feelings.

This is nothing. But she directs this to her grandfather, who has hardly said a word in the entire movie and who she's had almost no interactions with. He spit at Custis. Who cares? She's had almost all of her interactions with her grandmother.

Like, all of her conversations with her family have all of her conversations with her family has have basically been between lena and her grandmother so it doesn't make any sense to me why she addresses it's almost like she's seeking a man like her grandfather's a man's approval rather than because she's had so many of these conversations with her grandma up till now, why wouldn't she then try to reconcile the situation with her instead of her grandpa who she has barely spoken to? That's a good point. I hadn't thought of that. Yeah, that really, that bugged me a lot. And I was like, why is she talking to him?

We've hardly seen him on screen. Right. Why wouldn't she direct this toward her grandmother? So just, it felt like another excuse to like let's have women not interacting but they interact so much that it is weird that they're not the ones to resolve that yeah i don't know so that struck perhaps a cultural thing but it's not explained true should we talk about carmen Let's talk about Carmen. Carmen rules.

I love Carmen. Yes. Well, her whole thing, as we've said, is that she's spending the summer with her dad. She says very early into their hang that she hasn't spent more than four days with him consecutively since she was 10. So she's really excited to hang out with him, get to know him better over the summer. And then he's like, surprise, I have a a new family i'm getting married to this lady here are my two white teenagers that i have now uh it's also alluded to that he used to be like super like punk rock like i can't be tied down i'll never live in a house but it's implied that he's like sold out all of like who he used to be.

Right. He says grace now, but they couldn't even get him to go to church before. Stuff like that. Right. And it's like, and that is like implied as being important because her mom is religious. So I thought this was like an interesting storyline that I have like a few little problems with, but I don't know. I like that Carmen is as like, it felt kind of realistic to me that of the stuff she put up with

and then the points where she was like, okay, I'm not going to deal with this. Yeah. Like, she's trying to be polite. She's trying to be more respectful towards her dad's new life than he's ever been towards her life. And which I think is a very female experience. Right. and which i think is a very uh female experience right but then also like hits the line when in at that dress fitting scene yes i really liked i really like that scene i like that she confronts all the people who are basically acting as though she is not there that she's not a real person or

that she's the dialogue in that scene is a bit much no one would ever talk that way at a dress shop like hope we have enough fabric like okay calm down you know i understand what they're what they're trying to say right and she is aside from her mom the only um she like carmen is the one woman of color in the movie yeah and maria the housekeeper which i'll get into that in a second but um yeah that went kind of ultimately unexplored yeah yeah like that scene okay let's just talk about that scene so there's a moment where lydia who is carmen's dad's new wife or the the lady that she he's gonna marry and she's like get out of bed our housekeeper has to wash the sheets. But she doesn't speak any English. So I don't really know. We even watch you once.

And Carmen, who we've seen speaking Spanish, I just thought there was going to be a scene between her and Maria where they speak in Spanish. Or she helps them communicate. I wonder if that ended up being cut out of the movie or something. Because it just seems like that's such a specific scene to set up that is never resolved. Right. I feel like that helps us understand like even more so like, okay, Carmen's getting really fed up. She like clearly her dad's new family just like does not understand not white people and not wealthy people. And like it advances her character in that way but it's like yeah why would

you not have a scene with i forget if that happens in the book i feel like it would have to right yeah because otherwise maria never like speaks or maybe it's so that carmen can see that this white family who has a woman of color as like the help. I don't know. Maybe it's to establish that and for Carmen to say like, oh, here's how this family values people of color and women of color. Like they're your help, basically. Right. Carmen saying literally a couple different times that she feels like she's being erased yeah by her dad and by his family and that she's not being acknowledged or seen at all but I do agree like I think that that scene I'm glad that that scene happens but I wish that there was

a more concrete like it just seemed like there was more there that they didn't that for whatever reason we don't see in the movie. I forget. I feel like something does happen in the book, but I don't specifically remember. Yeah, I don't remember at all. But, yeah, Carmen and her mom have a couple different scenes together. We don't really see the other girls interact with their parents that deep. And the scenes between Carmen and her mom are mostly very nice. I think so, too.

And I really like Carmen confronting her dad at the end. Like, that's a hugely emotional beat in the movie. And I like that she stands up for herself. She questions what her dad has been doing this whole time and, like, why he's made the choices that she has. So I like that she has the agency to confront him about that. What I don't like is that wait can i say something i like really quick yeah yeah there's this shot of bradley whitford whipping his head around at his own wedding to make eye contact with his daughter it is such an unnecessary shot but you've got to

see it whitford's hair is flying he's in a tux he's about to deliver a monologue. And it's like, this guy's done Steppenwolf, you know? Okay, sorry, go ahead. So that wedding, first of all, Carmen says over and over again that she does not want to go to this wedding. And it makes sense because she's still very angry at her dad. And he has not really done anything to apologize. Yeah, to try to reconcile in any meaningful way but whenever the four girls regroup at the end of the summer they're like we're gonna take you to your dad's wedding and she's like i don't want to go to that and they're like no but you're gonna you want to go you have

to so i it really annoyed me and maybe this is just some like personal baggage that i'm bringing to the table but like bring it that her friends are like, hey, you know how you're really, really mad at your dad. We're going to make you go see him anyway. And in the fact that she keeps protesting and even when they're in the car, she's like, can we turn around? Like, I don't want to go to this when they're at like the rest stop. Like when she's putting the jeans on, she's like, can we not do this? I don't want to go. And the fact that she keeps expressing, this is not something I want.

This is not really something I'm ready for. I'm still angry at my dad. And they're just like, no, no, no, go do it. Because he's your daddy. You have to love your daddy. And the fact that she just kept protesting and they kind of forced her into it really upset me. And it also means that this movie ends in a wedding and it makes no fucking sense for a movie like this to end in a wedding i feel like i don't remember how the book ends and maybe

it ends in a wedding also but either way i feel like whoever was responsible for this they're like we have a girl movie this is a movie for girls it's a movie by girls but they're not old enough to get married themselves but we still we have, a movie like this has to end in a wedding. Well, they need a big finish. They can't just be like, okay, we're all home again. Let's go to school now. Right, yeah. There's got to be a wedding.

I think there's a good version of this movie that ends with them back at the yoga studio. Yeah, I would have liked that way better. Yeah. And if you need some big event i don't know maybe like bridget has a big soccer game or like i don't know something else but like the fact that this movie ends in a wedding when it doesn't really make any sense and is very unnecessary especially because the person whose wedding it is has wronged carmen for her pretty much entire life and still hasn't really apologized for it or

acknowledged that he has done anything wrong. The popular male fallacy of just apologize one time and it's all good. Right. Years of damage can be undone by just being like, should I figure it out? I'm sorry. Might be. Yeah. So that really bothered me about this storyline where carmen like she's strong enough to stand up to like the people in the dress shop she is challenging her dad in different ways in the family by like just speaking spanish and they're like oh god spanish we don't speak that in this household and at the end when she has the phone call with her dad where she very clearly outlines all the feelings that she has why she's angry with him and it's all very valid and then she still is like yeah okay fine i'll go to this wedding and he just he'll just hug me and say i'm sorry and then

it's fine i just i feel like that really sold her out i feel you i think that yeah that'd be cool if she didn't go. Her friends just respected her wishes. Yeah, exactly. If she was like, I don't want to go. I'm still really angry at my dad and I'm not ready for this. More supportive friends would have been like, okay, we accept that you're not ready and we totally understand you and let's just all go to a movie instead. Yeah.

How epic would that be? Like, a big scene where they're like super close to the wedding. Like they've driven all the way and then she's like, you know what? I don't think I can.

Screw it. And then they're like, okay. And then they do something else. That would be, I see I would have even liked that

where they were like, oh, we shouldn't have made you go here. Yeah. Okay, well, let's go see a movie. And then they go and they see Sisterhood of the traveling pants and then the movie just starts over i love it or they see an adaptation of the video game that brian mcbryan was playing the dragon slayer which would have been a great movie

because it would have been about a guy who has to save a woman from a dragon. That's true. That would have been a huge feminist masterpiece. I think it would be cool more if they were just talking about, well, what movie should we see? And then the dialogue sort of starts, the volume starts to go down, and then it's a crane shot, and so then the camera's zooming away, and then the music comes in. Feel the rain on your skin.

Oh, yeah. Of course, Natasha Bedingfield. How great of an ending would that be? That would have been a jarring and beautiful moment in mute cinema. Well, let's take a quick little breaky break, and then we'll come back and dish on more of the gals. Woo! Daphne Caruana Galizia was a Maltese investigative journalist who on October 16th, 2017 was murdered.

There are crooks everywhere you look now. the situation is desperate. My name is Manuel Delia. I am one of the hosts of Crooks Everywhere, a podcast that unhurts the plot to murder a one-woman Wikileaks. Daphne exposed the culture of crime and corruption that were turning her beloved country into a mafia state. And she paid the ultimate price. Listen to Crooks everywhere on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. To listen to new episodes one week early and 100% ad-free,

subscribe to the iHeart True Crime Plus channel, available exclusively on Apple Podcasts. This summer, the nation watched as the Republican nominee for president was the target of two assassination attempts, separated by two months. These events were mirrored nearly 50 years ago, when President Gerald Ford faced two attempts on his life in less than three weeks. President Gerald R. Ford came stunningly close to being the victim of an assassin today. And these are the only two times we know of that a woman has tried to assassinate a U.S. president. One was the protege of infamous cult leader Charles Manson. I always felt like Lynette was kind of his right-hand woman. The other, a middle-aged housewife working undercover for the FBI

in a violent revolutionary underground. Identified by police as Sarah Jean Moore. The story of one strange and violent summer. This is Rip Current, available now with new episodes every Thursday. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, everyone. Amy Robach here, along with TJ Holmes. And we have a very exciting announcement to make to all of you. We are expanding. We are now going to be coming to you Monday through Friday for a new part of our Amy and TJ franchise, if you will, The Morning Run. We're going to help listeners navigate the busy news cycle and the historic political season that the country is facing.

And we're going to do this now each and every day. Wow, we have a news franchise now. I like the way you put that. We're going to be covering all the latest news headlines for all of you. We'll have entertainment updates, and we'll even give some perspective on the current events that are happening right now. And this, by the way, is in addition to our already established bi-weekly podcast that we hope you guys are tuning into as well with more in-depth conversations and interviews. So we're going to be with you Monday through Friday with Morning Run. Listen to Morning Run on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. And we're back.

Hi. Hi. Who should we talk about next? Well, let's get into Tibby's story. Yes. A little bit. She's home for the summer. She's the art girl.

Her hair is not the color that it started as. She got a camera. There are parts of her that remind me of Mark from Rent in ways that I don't like. I'm just like, I'm just going to make a movie. Quality doesn't matter to me. But I think Tibby does a better job it just seems like Tibby has like basically I don't know how much of it is by choice and how much of it is out of necessity it's like sort of not clear but she has taken on more responsibility than the other girls and that she's like she doesn't go anywhere she has a job she's taking care of her little sister and she's also ends up sort of taking care of this younger girl, Bailey, who I just, this is a weird, like a weird permutation of something that we see all the time, which is like a character with a terminal illness sort of being exploited to have a main character a main able

bodied healthy character grow as a person like Bailey dies so that narratively Amber Tamblyn can be like I understand the world better like and it's so lame the normal setup for this i hate even more which is like a walk to remember uh fault in our stars like oh my girlfriend got cancer and died so i respect women now like that love that story seen that one cried at that one uh this is like a different version of it and it's even like it's it's listed on tv tropes which is like a website we pull from a lot, but it's called Littlest Cancer Patient. Oh, my goodness. It is.

I mean, it shows up in TV a lot, too, of just like... Hospital shows a lot. Yeah, a sick kid who imparts wisdom so the main character can grow. And it sucks because I think at the beginning, Bailey and Tibby have this dynamic that's really cool. And then it's revealed that she has leukemia. She didn't want to tell Tibby because she thought Tibby would treat her differently. She's correct.

Tibby does begin to treat her differently. But then Bailey starts to act differently. So it ends up sort of being like, well, of course Tibby's treating you differently. You're suddenly just speaking in like, euphemisms and where she was like this really interesting, like dynamic, like little combative kid character. A better documentarian than Tibby. Right. All of a sudden, once we find out she has leukemia, there's that nice scene where Tibby is honest and is like, I don't know if I'll treat you differently. I don don't know which is like a tricky spot to be in but then especially when you're 16 but then bailey does a 180 and and everything that comes out of her mouth is just like oh look at the stars i don't know if i'm gonna get like

every scene she's in don't know if i'm gonna get to see one of these again you're just like can you stop like you i just i think the movie or the book or both probably sell that character out in a kind of cheesy dumb way that ends up like i don't know it just like makes it less impactful and then also that bailey's death it's implied like brings tibby and brian mcbryan the gas station chode closer like it's like oh so bailey died so that Amber Tamlin could chill out a little bit and maybe date that loser at the gas station. It's like they're, I don't know, just a cheesy, badly written storyline for me. Yeah, I do appreciate that that was the one that didn't tie one of the girls to a man but it still isn't handled well because it's different yeah yeah okay and then we've got uh b we've got blake lively brigitte

um and her deal is she goes to a soccer camp in mexico she's the sporty spice of the group um she's athletic she's good at soccer she She's boy crazy. She lost a parent. They're all pretty well written out. Even when it's like the notes they're hitting are pretty like, okay, this tends to happen in every teen story. Like, one character doesn't have a mom. One character's a little boy crazy. One character play a sport.

It's still, I don't know. It comes together, I think, in at least an interesting way but her character is weird the the way they handle her story is kind of all over the place where we should just i mean we can only address this to an extent but like it is probably not 100% legal what is happening between her and this soccer coach. It's in Mexico, baby. But they say she's 16. He's 21. He's also her counselor.

It is at very least a fireable offense. Right. If not, I don't know what the laws in 2005 in this location were. But even so, it's like it's and this happens in like i think like trashier teen fair than this i'm thinking pretty little liars because pll episode one she is like i'm like six i'm gonna fuck my teacher and there and then we're rooting for them for years like it's not that level but it is like the story excuses him because it's like she's i my my feeling and if you feel differently let me know but like my feeling is like the story is telling us like well she's coming on so strong and like he couldn't resist where it's like

he's a grown person and he should resist at least in order to keep his job. But right. Whatever. I think that's definitely one of the problems of this storyline. Another one is just how the movie in narrative in general handles sex, which is like. So let's try to break this down. So I'm thinking about this in real time. You know, she's established.

She's like the boy crazy one. She spots this guy, Eric, and she's like him. He's going to be. I want the bang this in real time. You know, she's established. She's like the boy crazy one. She spots this guy, Eric, and she's like, him. He's going to be. I want the bangs. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So she goes after him pretty aggressively where she's finding random excuses to talk to him. She follows him to a cantina and makes him dance with her. There's one point in voiceover.

She's like, the rules don't apply to when a girl likes a boy. I was like, ooh, this is not a good precedent. Yeah, she says something like, I'm obsessed, and obsessed girls can't control themselves. Right. Or something like that. And it's like, well. Blake. Also, the fact that Blake, like most of the actresses in this movie are four or five years older than the character they're playing.

But Blake Lively is actually 16, 17 at the the time of filming this which makes me feel even more uncomfortable with it yeah but whatever okay continue so she pursues him and he is reluctant to some degree just because he knows that this shouldn't be happening because he's one of the coaches and the counselors and she's you know at the camp and that dynamic is you know he feels that it's not okay for them to engage in any sort of relationship but he eventually succumbs and then it's implied that she loses her virginity to him yes because then she writes a letter to i think it's to lena who says like how is something that's supposed to make you feel so complete it's leaving me feeling so empty.

Wow. And one, I don't like that they don't explicitly say that she has sex. Because it's like, okay, if you're going to have a character have sex, then talk about it. Like, say it. I would guess this is a ratings issue. That makes sense. But the same thing happens in the book, where it's, like, very heavily implied. Oh, that's more implied. Okay, so it isn't thing happens in the book where it's like very heavily implied okay so it is it isn't explicitly stated in the book right and i remember being really angry at

the book when i was reading it being like if your characters are old enough to have sex then talk about like then explicitly say it and then have a responsible discussion about it but the aftermath of that is that she feels she kind of sinks into a depression and she's left with these feelings of emptiness and it could be because she's still experiencing the grief of her mother committing suicide and how she maybe pursued this guy as a way to like deal with those feelings of grief um and then when that didn't help or fix anything in terms of the grief she was feeling then she feels empty i see but i think there's like little parts that i don't i don't like but for the most part although i do agree that if they're going to do the storyline you have to say that they had sex

otherwise it's just like what what what is this movie rated it's pg i believe yes and i think that that probably and if this movie isn't pg then like there's no point in even releasing it you know because it's yeah but i don't know the the way that it resolved because i felt like that storyline was resolved i mostly to my satisfaction We'll get to how they treat mental illness and suicide. That's almost an entirely separate issue because that is not done well. But in terms of how they handle her virginity, I do, I mean, I feel like that is like a fairly common thing for like a teenage girl who loses their virginity to be like, oh, this is built up in my head partially because of like media consumption right yeah how

people present that to you so that when it does happen and you're like okay i did it and now this this and this is supposed to happen and i'm supposed to feel this way that i've seen movies and and then when that doesn't happen like that is a confusing feeling totally yeah and i think your feelings are valid or like the aftermath of that. And, you know, this experience of sex, like not meeting her expectations or, you know, maybe feeling even some shame or whatever attached to that. I think that's very normal for, you know, it's like the character that she loses her virginity to is so underwritten, and we literally know nothing about him other than he is her soccer coach and shouldn't be having sex with her. He loves the endorphins that come with soccer. Yeah, the endorphins rule. Imagine the voice saying that.

Wow, Eric. Really a keeper this eric but eric comes back at the end to i guess apologize or he sort of comes back to make sure she's okay was my interpretation and like do that thing that sometimes men will do of like hey i don't know if i have anything to apologize for but if i do i'm sorry and you're just like okay and if i don't and if i don't then i guess i'll just go home great really sincere seems like you've really thought this way the fuck out but uh you know he comes back to to check in with her sure and i thought i liked how she she dealt with it where she again, we'll get to the conversation that they actually have, but she had talked about it with her close friends. She'd sought outside perspective.

She'd asked for help. She thought about it and sort of come to the conclusion that like, yeah, like losing your virginity and having sex with someone is not going to fix problems. And she sort of, by the end, from what I i could tell had recognized and made peace with that i like that the the story doesn't force stuff the way it does with lena's character of like maybe there's like a future for us that's not implied at all she's just like nope have a nice year at school like there's no implication that she i guess would impress you want to get it over with right like there was just like the implication with that her that character for me was like okay there's a way that like you can have sex as a woman and not be like madly in love with the

person you're having sex with that's something that's not presented very often in movies and especially not with young women. True, yeah. So I thought that, I don't know, I liked how that storyline resolved. Right. I think what bothers me about the way that sex is handled in this movie is that because that's pretty much

the only representation we see of a woman having a sexual experience with someone and then the aftermath we see of that is like oh well then you feel empty and you'd feel depressed and then and i think we as the audience can glean that it's because she hasn't properly dealt with her mom's suicide but i don't know if the movie connects those two things where like she has sex because she's trying to fill a void and the emptiness she feels is actually because of her mom's suicide and not necessarily because of the sex she had i think that because there's a lot of like stuff conflated there and this is the only representation

we see on screen of a woman having a sexual experience i'm worried that like young girls will see this and be like oh well no like losing your virginity is a bad thing that makes you feel really bad and comes with a lot of shame. And like, I don't know, maybe she doesn't really have shame by the end. That's true. That's why I felt OK about it was like you see her. Because, again, that seemed that's another to my experience, like a realistic part of that experience is like feeling shitty about it and like questioning it and like what do i do blah blah and at least i don't know she seems comfortable with herself and with her decision by the end of the movie and in that way

i feel okay about it yeah that's true great girl did she have sex no no. Lena? No, she just kissed. See, that's what it needed. If it had, like, one girl that was like, it was the best ever, and then also had, like, a little weird one so that kids can see, like... The two. Yeah. There's a spectrum. But then also, that would have been problematic. The spectrum of sexual experience.

Right. That would have been problematic, too, because Costas was older than her. He was also, like, a college student, and she was 16. Brian McBride Brian McBride age appropriate shorty no I have no idea how old he was probably 27 he was probably the oldest of them all he was probably like oh yeah I have a couple of kids I should be feeding um well I liked what was going on with the soccer girl because she does say like I just thought if I would act happy that, you know, I think she's encoded rated PG language saying I was trying to be like slutty and flirty and fun and brave and no shame that I was forcing that because I thought it made it made or something. Or like, whatever, my mom died. It's fine. Right, like forcing yourself through the grief process

instead of dealing with the emotions, which it seems like, yeah, by the end it's like that is definitely not resolved. But it seems like she at least understands that that's work she has to do. I don't like the mental illness and suicide thing is a nut there's a very very dated take right where bridget's mother committed suicide the way it's spoken about in the scene the very expository scene at her funeral is very shamey and weird where it's just like we'll never know why she did this terrible thing it's like like, okay, her family, right there. Priest, turn it down to a six.

But anyways, Bridget is worried that she's going to become depressive like her mother and that she will be susceptible to the same feelings. I think that was a cool thing to express as like a concern, but the way her friends respond to it is very strange of like, I think Carmen's character is like, you're stronger than your mom. And I was like, yeah,

she says, Carmen says, Carmen, you have a strength in you that your mother never had, which is implying like, Oh, because your mother suffered from mental is implying like oh because your mother suffered from mental illness she wasn't strong and she just didn't want to live enough to fight

for her life and it's like well that's just not at all what mental illness is yeah and just a mean thing to say to your friend i mean she didn't really deserve to live because she wasn't strong enough so when you think about it right it's just and it's like it's presented in this way that it's like i they're trying to help but it's not the right message to be sending which is realistic for 16 year olds yeah but in this this example i i feel like they have to deal with it right they have to deal with it right so that teenage girls seeing the movie have a template of how to deal with a situation like this in a way that is not bad. Because the way Bridget's character responds is like, okay.

And then you're just like, no, now she thinks that her mom was like. This whole movie deals with death in a very strange way, whether it's Bailey's death or Bridget's mom's death. It's all a little bit off the way that they deal with it yeah there's I mean between that and the way the movie deals with sex and the way the movie fails to deal with race I do think that it does a decent job of dealing with like body image like that's the one thing that it touches on and sort of gets right yeah but yeah there's a lot of things that it mishandles which it was 2005 so yeah it is very dated done okay for the time that like america ferrera her character acknowledged struggles of being a latina um whereas i feel

like a lot of movies are just like quote quote unquote, colorblind. Like the cast is of different colors, but they're all just like, yeah, I mean, we live in a world where we don't see race. Kind of like going back to what you were saying earlier, Caitlin, of like, if we pit this movie against other, like groups of teenage girl movies, i think this movie does very well where like if we're pitting it against the craft which we bring up a lot of like the one woman of color in that movie is like consider we just don't really so underwritten her at all like they're just like we don't know how to write a character that's not white so we're just not going to right at least you know for this movie shortcomings yeah the fact fact that Carmen is vocal and like that's explored and...

Yeah, we can talk about this and it's fine. I don't love that the end of her narrative is like, and now I love my dad's white family. Yeah, you can hate your dad, it's fine. Yeah, it's like, it's cool to hate your dad. It seems like he kind of actually really shafted you i feel like yeah well so the movie was based on a novel written by and bra shares bra bra shares mrs a white woman screenplay written by elizabeth chandler and delia efron which is nora efron's sister sister um two white women directed by ken kwapi whatever you can look it up who is a white dude so i think that it could have handled a discussion about race a little more responsibly than it did but because a lot of the major players of this movie are white people uh it doesn't go as far as it could have york yeah so shall we discuss whether or not the movie passes the

bechdel test it does for sure 100 a lot of different times a lot of different female characters who all talk to each other sometimes they do talk about men either like carmen's dad or eric the soccer coach or costas but largely they are talking about pants number one um documentary filmmaking soccer all kinds of stuff and the number of like character combos it passes with is pretty impressive carmen and her mom to be Anne Bailey. Yeah, all kinds of combos, hot combos. It passes the Mary Houlihan test, which is where a movie has to have several scenes where women talk about pants with each other. Well, we do come up on this a lot where often we find that if a movie does pass the Bechdel test the women are either talking about clothing or food this happens a lot that is true what else you gonna talk about

there's nothing else uh jamie um i love your shirt and your um and i love the way you make pasta man it's too bad because all my clothes look bad and I can't cook so I just mostly don't speak. I have no option. There's nothing else for me to talk about. I just go full Hello Kitty. I don't say a damn thing. Keep my damn mouth shut.

Sometimes they talk about cancer. They also talk about illness a lot. Leukemia. Yeah, they talk about a lot of stuff. Yeah, for sure. let's rate it on our nipple scale where we rate the movie based on its portrayal of women on a scale of zero to five nipples five being the best i'm gonna give it three and a half because this movie's existence in the world i think is net positive um for the audience it's reaching. It's really nice to see a movie about girls of this age who are in a friendship with each other and who don't turn on each other.

They are all extremely supportive and very different and very different and fairly well written and well developed, although we do see some sort of tropey characters and that we were able to pretty much closely align them with all of the Sex and the City characters. And, you know, any other group of foursome, we could figure out, you know, which one is which Ninja Turtle or whatever. So, but even so, they are distinguishable enough that we can easily identify them and their characters, which says a lot for a female character in a movie. Because usually they're hard to describe because they're so underwritten that you just simply can't do that. Yes. So that's nice.

And it's a depiction of female friendship, which is really positive and supportive i don't especially care for the fact that three of the four storylines do center around one of the girls relationship to a man totally because i think you know why not one of the girls have a relation like an issue with her mother or another female family member why not another friendship with another woman something like that like the fact that half of them are romantic and then one of the other ones is about a difficult relationship with their father. I just like, there were opportunities

to have other types of stories and or relationships that just did not actually get explored in this movie. Two boyfriends, one daddy and a cancer patient, maybe. Yeah, so not great. And as we discussed, it mishandles several different things. It could be more sex positive. It could handle a discussion of race more responsibly. It could do the same thing for mental illness.

But overall, I think that for the time, for the audience this movie is reaching, I think it's generally pretty well done and positive so three and a half nipples and in the interest of not giving any nipples away to teenage girls because that feels wrong um give it to them today today okay america ferreira today in 2018 i give all three and a half of my nipples to her. Okay. She has spares. I love it when we give away nipples like spare tires. I'm good with a three and a half as well.

Yeah, there's definitely a few topics this movie tackles in a dated way. I do wish that they would just outright say that sex happened. It was confusing that they didn't. But other than that, yeah, I think that this is, especially for this time, pretty much as good as it gets in terms of in movies. I think there were some TV shows that did it well. And some of the TV shows this cast are in that deal with it very well. Not Gossip Girl, that one but uh yeah I like this movie a lot I don't like cancer kid tropes I don't like mishandling of depression uh but I I do like most of what happens in this movie I think it's good I got three and a half nipples I'm gonna give oh also I wanted to say that the director male director of this movie also directed a really bad,

real stinky, he also directed He's Just Not That Into You, which is possibly the lowest of the low. We should do that movie on the podcast because I have a lot to say. Director Ken Kwapis exists on a spectrum of good to bad. Anyways. Also,

and this was a clickbait that made me well up last night. They're all still friends today. They hung out recently because America Forever is pregnant. And now all four of them are going to be mothers. And there's a lot of cute Instagram posts. And I highly recommend that you check them out. I love that they're still friends.

Do you think that all of their kids are going to be friends? Yes, I do. And have a sisterhood of traveling pants? That would be so funny if their moms were like, you should all share a pair of pants. And they'd be like, no, what is this? But I love that they're all still friends. My three nips, I'll give one to America, one to Amber, one to Blake. And Alexis only gets a half, sorry Mary, what would you rate this movie?

I'd give it three nips Who are you giving your nips to? Myself Well, if she's empowered Good job She's taking them back Take back the nips Cool

So Mary, where can we find you on social media? At Mary Hooley M-A-R-Y-H-O-U-L-I-E. I'm on Instagram and Twitter. So look at those. Cool. You can find us on Instagram, on Twitter, on website, on other places, all at BactelCast. And we are now on the HowStuffWorks network, but that doesn't mean that you can't still join our Patreon, aka Matreon, which is patreon.com slash Bechtel Cast. Five bucks a month gets you two extra exclusive episodes. Oh, wow. And they're good.

And they're good. And they're good. They're all recorded in Caitlin's bed. And so they're kind of intimate as well. Yeah. They're a little bit like, they're a little rough around the edges. We talk straight. I feel like we swear more.

It gets wild. Anyways. So sign up for the Patreon. I'm on Twitter at Jamie Laugh Dishelp. And I'm at Caitlyn Durante. And I guess we'll just talk to you fucking next time, guys. Hey, Jamie, can I borrow your pair of pants that also fit me perfectly? Yes, I hope you don't mind.

Oh, yeah. What are the parameters on going commando in these pants? No rules. Yeah. No rules. Make a third movie and we'll find out. We'll find out. All right.

Bye. Daphne Caruana Galizia was a Maltese investigative journalist who on October 16th, 2017, was assassinated. Crooks Everywhere unnerves the plot to murder a one-woman WikiLeaks. She exposed the culture of crime and corruption that were turning her beloved country into a mafia state. Listen to Crooks Everywhere on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. To listen to new episodes one week early and 100% ad-free, subscribe to the

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