The Bechdel Cast - Sleepless in Seattle with Andy Iwancio

Episode Date: April 11, 2019

Caitlin and Jamie live in different cities, but they decide to meet up at the Empire State Building so they can discuss Sleepless in Seattle with special guest Andy Iwancio!(This episode contains spoilers)For Bechdel bonuses, sign up for our Patreon at patreon.com/bechdelcast.Follow @andyiwancio on Twitter.  While you're there, you should also follow @BechdelCast, @caitlindurante and @jamieloftusHELP Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Daphne Caruana Galizia was a Maltese investigative journalist who on October 16th 2017 was assassinated. Crooks Everywhere unearthed the plot to murder a one-woman WikiLeaks. She exposed the culture of crime and corruption that were turning her beloved country into a mafia state. Listen to Crooks Everywhere on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. To listen to new episodes one week early and 100% ad-free, subscribe to the iHeart True Crime Plus channel, available exclusively on Apple Podcasts. There's so much beauty in Mexican culture, like mariachis, delicious cuisine, and even lucha libre. Join us for the new podcast, Lucha Libre Behind the Mask, a 12-episode podcast in both English and Spanish about the history and cultural richness of lucha libre. And I'm your host, Santos Escobar, emperor of Lucha Libre and a WWE superstar.

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Check your heart rate. We're here at iHeart. Yeah, you can find us wherever you listen to your podcasts or on the iHeart Radio app. On the Bechdelcast, the questions asked, if movies have women in them, are all their discussions

just boyfriends and husbands, or do they have individualism? If patriarchy is effing vast, start changing it with the Bechdelcast. Cool song! Welcome to the Bechdelcast! Hi!

Yay! My name's Jamie. My name's Caitlin. And this is our second Seattle Live episode of the Backdome Cast! Welcome! A lot of familiar faces. Thank you! I changed velvet suits because I care! And I just have many velvet suits.

Got to get airtime for all of them. On our audio podcast. I'm in the same outfit. I'm in the same Crocs. Choices were made for this night. Well, welcome to the show. Yes, welcome. Clap if you are a listener of the Bechtelcast.

Is there anyone here who came with a friend and hasn't heard the show before? Okay, we got one. A shaking hand rose in the audience. This is, okay, so Caitlin and I, when we go to do live shows in various cities, we have so far never done a movie that takes place in the city.

In fact, we always do movies that take place in the absolute wrong city, and people are, how do you say, angry about this when we do this. Did Princess Diaries of New York. That's a movie about San Francisco. Correct. We did, in San Francisco, we did The Breakfast Club.

Takes place in a suburb of Chicago. I think the easiest way to get us to do the correct movie in the correct city is to put the name of the city in the title. Yes. Although we could have done this movie in New York. So it's Sleepless in Seattle is the name of the movie

we're doing. Yeah. By round of applause, who has seen the movie? And which Seattleite, is that right? That's fun to say. Which Seattleite

is the holdout and has not seen Sleepless in Seattle we've got some edgelords in the crowd I love it when you think about it Caitlin and I feel like I'm about to really polarize the audience but when you think about it

canonically is Seattle a spinoff of Boston? Because cheers, Frasier. I wish not to comment. Okay? That's what I'm... I don't mean like culturally. Jesus.

I mean, Frasier spun off Cheers. Seattle spun off Boston. It's canon. I see. That's just my hot take for the evening. Well, I'm sure we'll talk about this, but despite this movie taking place, at least partly in Seattle,

this movie barely is about Seattle. She seems to be mostly sleepless in Baltimore and New York. Yeah. Shall we bring in our guest? Yes, we should. Our guest is awesome. She is a local Seattle comedian. She runs a weekly

show at this very space, The Rendezvous, called Comedy Nest, and she recently opened for Cameron Esposito. Give it up for Andy Iwansio. Iwansio. Iwansio. I fucked it up. Iwansio. Welcome. Hi.

Nice to be here. You actually have to pass a test to begin speaking. I thought you were going to ask me to play the piano. Kind of a Billy Joel situation here. Suddenly a piano is wheeled up and you're like, we're going to see if you're on the podcast. Well, thank you so much for being here. You're welcome.

Tell us about your history and your relationship with Sleepless in Seattle. Historically, I've lived in Baltimore as well as Seattle. Okay. And this is a biopic? Kind of. It kind of works out if you think about it as gender. Okay. With the other one. Anyway. go on anyway

I worked on the harbor right where she like sulks on a bench for most of the movie romantically stalkingly it's one of the postcards she stares at

wow okay I worked on a ferry that went around that harbor and so you'd give like a It's one of the postcards she stares at. Wow, okay. And then I worked on a ferry that went around that harbor. And so you'd give like a fake tour to people to get tips. And so they had installed these lamp posts that weren't really ever there. Wait, they installed them for the movie? Yeah, they installed them. They're in the movie.

You can see them. They look old timey and stuff. Whenever people have budgets, they just do fucked-up random things. When they were shooting The Wire in Baltimore, they actually had to install dilapidated houses. Because not all the neighborhoods had them. They created bus stops. It was pretty hilarious.

They did everything the city couldn't do. But my partner pointed out that he worked on the same ferry and then he was working on some pirate ship that went around Seattle's harbor and then he realized he spent most of his summer pointing out

the house from Sleepless in Seattle. No! So he's really got the connection. Wow. Impressive. And wild. I sleep next to him, so that's like contacts. Yeah, that's the transitive property.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Next to someone who has the info, you also have the info. That's how it works. We're both trans trans so we just it just happens yeah it's it's like a voltron of ambiguity well to bring up the the fight club episode which we recently did it's like tyler knows this so i know this yeah it's the same thing uh when did you first see Sleepless in Seattle? I honestly seen bits and pieces of it at family gatherings for a long time.

Yeah. It wasn't until I really sat down to watch it a couple weeks ago that I really sat through the whole thing. Yeah. It was very interesting. It was very interesting. It was very interesting. You're not wrong.

I have no notes for this. All right, Caitlin, what's your history with the movie? I had never seen it. Sorry, I can feel myself getting sick currently. That's my fault. And also, I'm better. Oh, no.

I had never seen this movie before until like a week ago when we started prepping for this tour. Yeah, it just it's not the type of movie that I would ever seek out. Our friend Catherine. I know. I'm so sorry. Our friend Catherine, who I watch a lot of movies with, had been trying to get me to watch this movie for like a year and meanwhile i was like making her watch paddington and stuff and i kept refusing but i did often

posit theories as to what the movie might be about um so i was like yeah it's about how meg Meg Ryan owns a bookstore in Seattle and Tom Hanks owns a bigger bookstore called Amazon and and they are fighting about it but then they start emailing and they're falling in love over email well I know that now because I had also never seen You've Got Mail, and Catherine was always trying to get me to watch that. It should be called You've Got Email. That's my only note for that movie. Otherwise, perfect piece of cinema. Otherwise, feminist text. What's your history with Sleepless in Seattle?

I sort of came to this movie in a bizarre reverse way. Before I saw any of nora efron's movies i saw the documentary about her uh that everything is copy documentary uh which was really good and she's like a fascinating figure with some serious blind spots but i first like became interested in nora efron and then went back maybe about a year or two ago and like started watching back all of her movies we did when Harry met Sally on the podcast I had to watch it then and I watched Sleepless in Seattle for the first time maybe a year or two ago and was like oh no you know because I very much uh love Noraron, and yet this movie.

Oh, no. You know? Yeah. So, you know, it was weird because it was like falling in love with an artist and then two days later being like, what have you done to me? It was a real fling I had with Nora Ephron, and she let me down almost immediately. I'm so sorry.

It's okay. You know, she's dead. Rest in power. So I showed her. I'm alive. Oh, okay. That's one way to look at it. Okay, well. This is now the roast of Nora Ephron

Is this a normal part of the show where you say whether or not you've beaten somebody by living longer than them? No, but it's now a part of the show where I roast everyone who can't roast me back because I'm a coward I'm still somewhat of a Nora Ephron stan and I like a lot of what she represents

and she did pave a lot of paths for future female writers and filmmakers and I don't want to disc... I mean, I have a whole thing. But I love Nora Ephron. This movie is yikes. Yes. Well, let's jump in with the recap, shall we?

Yes. Okay, so this movie starts out basically the same exact way that the movie The Rock starts out because... His wife! It's Tom Hanks staring at a gravestone that might as well say, his wife. Because she has just died. And he's more much like The Rock when Ed Harris,

he's sort of yelling at the gravestones. Yeah. Why do these men yell at the gravestones of their recently deceased? In Ed Harris' case, it's raining heavily, so he's yelling through the weather to the grave. Sure. This is where you can start the drinking game of like,

if you take a shot every time you see something famous that should be on a postcard. Like the entire movie is just shots of stuff. Even Chicago seems to raise up like it's trying to check out

what's happening. Like the buildings come up over the hill like, what? Who died? Hello? Go away, Sears Tower! Right.

The movie does... I'm having a moment here! There's this weird reveal that doesn't need to happen where it seems like they're in, like, just a grassy, rural graveyard,

and then there's, like, a tilt that's like, wait a minute, they're near a city, and it's like, who cares? People in cities aren't supposed to die. They're like, wait a second.

So in this universe, people who live in cities die. It's almost like, well, there's two ways we can do it. We could just put Chicago at the bottom of the screen. No, that's not good enough. It needs to tilt in the entire skyline up here. Like a musical number from Chicago.

A full-on Dutch angle. They do introduce it basically like Tom Hanks is like, so, to recap, my wife is dead. And the kid's like, why? And he's like, that just happens sometimes. And the kid's like, oh, thank you.

And that's the first scene. Yes. Why are they yelling? I don't know. But Tom Hanks spends almost the rest of the movie yelling still. Yes. America's sweethearts are really fucking creepy and mean in this movie so he is his wife has just died of cancer and he is heartbroken because they were very much in love

yeah and he decides that he needs a change of scenery because everything in Chicago reminds him of his wife. Again, it's another famous part of Chicago. It's them going into Wrigley Stadium. It's just another postcard that reminds him of his wife. Oprah's throwing a pitch. You're like, why

is this happening? So he takes his young son Jonah and they move to Seattle. Ever heard of it? The cast member of Frasier in this movie lives in Baltimore. But then here's my theory.

They heard David Hyde Pierce say, utter the word Seattle and they're like, now hold on a second. We've got to get this guy in a Seattle-based piece of media. Sure. And that's why he won all those Emmys. Yeah.

Good theory. Thank you. Okay. So we cut to 18 months later. We are in Baltimore. We meet Annie. That's Meg Ryan's character. Also, Tom Hanks is his character's name is Sam. We're probably going to call him Tom Hanks.

Right. So Annie, a.k.a. Meg Ryan, has just gotten engaged to Walter. That's Bill Pullman. Bill Pullman. But he is a dweeb who is allergic to everything, so we don't

like him. We can get into this Nora Ephron school of man who is allergic to everything. So we don't like him. We can get into this Nora Ephron school of man who is addicted to you and faithful to you above all others, yet he has an allergy, is repulsive. Oh no, he's into aromatherapy. Dear Lord, our bedroom is so moist at night and comfortable and smells like lavender.

I need to divorce this man. This sexy man who doesn't care when I'm essentially cheating on him. She is driving in her car and she's flipping through the radio and she hears a kid. She's yelling? She's yelling at the radio. Oh, true. Yeah. She's like, better change the channel! Like, what is... Who is the sound guy on this movie?

There's no rhythm in this movie. If you watch the Christmas Carol, because I was literally watching it before it came here and she does not sound like she's ever sang a Christmas Carol before. It is terrible. And she does not sound like she's ever sang a Christmas carol before. It is terrible. And jingle bells.

Ton deaf Meg Ryan. Well, if she's yelling at radio, she's kind of like us. Like we're always, you know, criticizing media. No. No, she sucks in this movie though. And we're cool and good. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So she's driving in a car she is listening to the radio and she hears a kid call into a radio show this kid being

jonah sam's son and he speaks with dr marcia who's like an advice radio host person. And he's like, my Christmas wish is for my dad to have a new his wife. So then Jonah puts his dad on the phone and they talk to Dr. Marsha about his wife. Yeah. But then also like Tom Hanks is back and forth in this movie and he's either very endearing on the radio or yelling at his son on the radio. Yeah.

Which is, read the room, dumbass. Why are you yelling at your son on national radio? It doesn't stop 2,000 women from being like,

he seems like the greatest guy in the world. I mean, speaks to their judgment of character because Jesus Christ, he's yelling at his son the whole movie. I'm gonna kick your teeth. He's so dreamy.

So he's talking to the lady and he's like, I can't sleep at night. I'm sleepless. I live in Seattle. And that's where we get the name of this movie. Genius Dr. Marsha. Annie, who is listening, is like, wow, this guy seems nice. She's like, wow.

She's yelling. She almost wrecks her car. She says like three or four words at the same time as him. Yeah. And she thinks it's kismet. This whole movie is like, is love connected to the power of coincidence? And that is, I'm just like, no.

It's much in the same way that like, it's the least common denominator of things happening in the world. It's like if you pick up a paperclip and you think somewhere else in the world somebody's picking up a paperclip, and I'm like, I'm supposed to be with that person. It's just such a low bar for connection in the world. It's like Meg Ryan, if you want to break up with Bill Pullman, many people would be honored to have him.

So just break up with him. Don't go through this insane... Oh, God. I can't wait to apply the Buscemi test to this movie. Although in this case, it's a female character, so I'm going to call it the Stevia Buscemi test. Stevie is still a woman's name, so you could just be the Stevie Boucham.

Oh, Stevie Boucham. I like Stevia because it's a, what is it? It's a sugar substitute. Oh, okay. I don't know. It might be poison. Who knows? So she's like, yeah, this guy seems great.

And then she goes into a diner and they're all like, wow, he seems great. And then there are like many women calling into the radio show and they're all like wow he seems great and then there are like many women calling into the radio show and they're like wow he seems great and then she gets very emotionally invested in this story his story which is not interesting it's like pretty normal he is yeah he's a grieving husband who is not dealing with it well via screaming at his son all the time. So not inspiring. Actually quite sad. And someone should call and be like, should we check in on the son?

Right. I feel like if you play the movie Big before this, it feels like a weird sequel to that movie. Love this theory. And then like, except for the Zoltar things, kind of like, make sure my dad meets someone else they can kiss.

This is a perfect fan theory. And she's one, Meg Ryan has one of the only jobs women are allowed to have in this genre, which is journalist. So she goes to work with her friend and colleague Becky, played by Rosie O'Donnell.

And everyone's like, you should turn this into a story. This is interesting. Like, is nothing happening in Baltimore right now? So she's like, yeah, this guy seems great. I'm going to write a story about him. And then meanwhile, Sam gets a bunch of letters from horny women who have heard his story and want to be his wife. Yeah. And he's not interested in any of them. So then Annie goes to her brother, Niles Crane, a.k.a. David Hyde Pierce.

There's not really much to talk about Niles' character so I'll just say it here. This character's office that she goes into at some point what is his job? Because

there's so many wild things in his office while he's like love is a construct but there's an oversized typewriter. What else is there? There's a piano

and a harp. There's a large harp? There's a piano and a harp. There's a large harp! There's a gramophone. There's a gramophone. Most of the time when you have David Hyde Pierce in a movie or TV show you just want him flustered in front of antiques.

And this movie delivers on every level. David Hyde Pierce is in just a room full of central casting antiques annie's all like i'm having these fantasies about this guy who lives in seattle who i've never met i'm like questioning whether or not i want to marry bill pullman and niles is just like do whatever you want love is a lie and she's like okay you're right I just have cold feet and I'm gonna move on but the fact that he's like love is a lie and she's like okay I will get married

like meanwhile Sam is talking to his friend I think his name is Jay Rob Reiner and Rob Reiner is encouraging him to like get back out into the dating sphere.

Yeah. He's like, you've got a nice butt Tom Hanks. And Tom Hanks is like, I know. And they're talking about dating and how like, you know, Sam should get back out there,

but it's been so long since he's dated. He doesn't know this like changing landscape. And then Rob Reiner is like, well, there's this decorator woman, Victoria, you should ask her out. so long since he's dated. He doesn't know this changing landscape. And then Rob Reiner's like, well, there's this decorator woman, Victoria. You should ask her out. So he does. Meanwhile, this is where it gets really fun.

Annie starts to cyber-stalk and then really stalk Sam. Which is 10 times as hard to do in 1993. The cyber stalking especially. A lot of large hardware in this movie. I will say there's more female hacking in this movie than most movies in the 90s.

There is. And nobody says I'm in. No. Which I was going to say, representation-wise, is piss poor for the hackers. She needs to say, I'm in? The fact that she dares,

well, she's in, is she not? That's a consent thing. You've got to say it. Okay. First of all, hackers should have to say to computers may i enter and if the computer enthusiastically consents they can say i'm in well it actor like it was like print yes or enter factors i think we've all we've all met somebody off a Craigslist and gone, what's your factors?

So Annie is like, I can't get this guy out of my mind. And she writes him a letter to both Sam and Jonah. And she's like, hey, let's meet on Valentine's Day in New York City at the Empire State Building on the top of it. She proposes the third act on the top of it. She proposes the third act of the movie. Yes. And then Jonah reads the letter and he's like, wow, I really like the sound of her. But Sam is like, but Rosie O'Donnell sends it. Meg Ryan's like, oh, right. Because it's scary, right? We've all written a scary letter and then not sent it that's relatable i've done that many times that's the whole premise of to all the boys i've loved before so everyone's written a scary

letter and then read it back and then been like hold on have i become a person i hate but rosie o'donnell sends it rosie o'donnell sends it, and then Sam reads it, but he dismisses her as a romantic option because she lives in Baltimore and it's too far away from Seattle. Out of all the many examples there are to reject her as a romantic option in that letter, he chooses distance. Well, he doesn't know that she is stalking him, which she starts to really double down on because, first of all, she hires a detective to a very unsubtle

detective yeah to like take photos of him and like spy on him on his date with victoria so sam starts dating victoria which upsets jonah because he's all about your new his wife should be annie this random lady who i read a terrifying letter from. Like, the Buscemi test. Oh my God. Oh, but, and also,

the reason we're not supposed to like Victoria is because she laughs. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. She has a sense of humor. She's too expressive and Jonah likes his mothers.

Silent and Meg Ryan. Again, when you see the private detective lean over the balcony at them, and he's zooming in, the camera is so loud. It sounds like a car backing up. It's like... And also that shot zooming in,

Tom Hanks is acting wild on this first day he's like moving his head around i was like what are you talking about and then he feeds her which you're like okay okay setting a weird precedent for this relationship everything about that reads like a child in a man's body. Yeah. Yes. Right. He wouldn't know how to act on a date with a grown woman. Yeah. Oh, this is a good theory. If someone tried to fade me on a first date, I would commit arson.

Be very upset. So meanwhile Annie is like, well, if I'm gonna write this story that i think is interesting i better go to seattle so she uses funding from work i i guess oh my god and then she's getting off her plane at the airport just as coincidentally sam is seeing off Victoria for a trip that she's going on. And so Sam sees Annie and he's like, hubba hubba, who is that? And then Annie proceeds to follow him to the beach, follow him to another beach, spy on him, lurk around, go to his house.

She has found out his address. She goes to his house and then sees him playing with his house. She has found out his address. She goes to his house and then sees him playing with his son and then she's like, what a nice guy. I love him. She's too far away to see that Tom Hanks is probably yelling at his son.

That's what's making the boat go. And then they do come face to face and they say hello to each other but she has just seen him be really excited to see his friend Susie played by Rita Wilson

Tom Hanks' real life his wife. His sister? No, I'm not saying his wife is his sister. Oh my god. Isn't Susie supposed to be his sister? I thought, or maybe just friends. I think it's supposed to be his sister.

I think Susie's his sister. Oh, I didn't realize that. And that's why it's like double ridiculous. And it's like, you thought his sister was his wife? But it also like, he does hug her like it's his wife. Yeah. And that's why annie is confused so she's like oh man he's got a girlfriend i'm just gonna go back to baltimore and forget all about this sleepless

in seattle but then jonah buys a flight to new york with the help of tiny gabby hoffman and he goes to the Empire State Building to look for Annie and waits around and then Sam realizes that his son is missing because he's a bad father and does not keep track of him. He's like, I'm yelling and no one is crying.

Where is my son? This is how I find out of my son's home you let me down that's sun sonar so he goes chasing after him goes to New York City meanwhile Annie and Walter

are having like Valentine's dinner and she's just like, we've got to break up because you have allergies. And he's like, okay. He's so chill about it. He takes it. I'm like, what is going on with Bill Palme? It's his allergy medication.

It's affecting his emotional response. So then she goes to the empire state building and then sam is arriving there around the same time to get jonah but they like just miss each other but wait jonah left his backpack so he and sam go back and then they see Annie, a random lady who could be anyone. But they're like, are you Annie? And she's like, yeah. So then they hold hands and

are in love. And then there's a bad CGI shot of the Empire State Building. It's so bad. It's really funny. And then we're like, and that is Sleepless in Seattle.

It ends in New York. Why couldn't they have chosen a building in Seattle? Is a good question. Yeah. The Space Needle? Realistically, this movie would have ended with Jonah being kidnapped and Tom Hanks living out the rest of his days

wishing he hadn't yelled at his son so much. This was more of a taken situation than anything. Than anything, but... Daphne Caruana Galizia was a Maltese investigative journalist who on October 16th, 2017, was murdered. There are crooks everywhere you look now. The situation is desperate. My name is Manuel Delia. I am one of the hosts of Crooks Everywhere a podcast that unhearts the plot to murder a one-woman Wikileaks

Daphne exposed the culture of crime and corruption that were turning her beloved country into a mafia state and she paid the ultimate price Listen to Crooks Everywhere on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. To listen to new episodes one week early and 100% ad-free, subscribe to the iHeart True Crime Plus channel, available exclusively on Apple Podcasts.

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iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. In a galaxy far, far away. No, babe, that's taken. We're in our own world, remember? Right, in our own world. We're two space cadets. And totally normal humans.

Sure, totally normal humans. Embark on a journey across the stars, discovering the wonders of the universe one episode at a time. Sure, totally normal humans. We'll talk about life, love, laughter, and why you should never argue with your co-pilot. Especially when she's always right. Right, and if we hit turbulence, just blame it on Mercury retrograde. Or Emily's questionable space piloting skills. Hey! Join us on In Our Own World for cosmic conversations, stellar laughs, and super corny dad jokes.

Listen to In Our Own World as a part of the My Cultura podcast network available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And don't worry, we promise to avoid any black holes. Most of the time. Okay, so here's the thing with this movie. It's an all-female reboot of The Stalking Trap. I think it's great. Yes. It feels like a pretty standard, you know, 90s rom-com,

you know, upon first glance. But with a few exceptions, which is that unlike a lot of movies where a woman feels like she needs a man to feel complete or other people are telling her that she needs a man to be complete she just needs a different man this way well this movie is about a boy telling a man that he needs a wife so that's like sort of a subversion of it. Right. I mean, and in Jonah's case,

it's a cry for help because he's like, hey, can we get anyone else in this house? Like, that seems to be what he's asking. Did y'all have as much fun with how that kid is like his roommate? In every Nora Ephron movie, one of the Nora Ephron tropes that is so annoying and is like, just a little wise child trope. I'm so, I'm like, this kid would be sneezing on things. He would be sticky.

Right. There are a number of scenes where he's like yeah women scratch up men's backs during sex i've seen it on cable right and then and the message of that is like whoa nora effron just roasted cable you're like okay and then tom hanks is like mumbling to himself and he's like, I've fucked six, no, seven women in college. And then he sees that his son is right there. And he's like, how long have you been there? And he's like, I've heard you had sex with seven women. And he's like, it was eight actually.

I remembered another one. So he's screaming about all the women he fucked in college. Also, a whole storyline is like son get out of my way so i can fuck someone he's so annoyed with his son he's like son it's almost like he could set up boundaries no he makes no effort yeah i mean to like there's nothing good about this movie but also there's everything good about this movie so it's it's confusing uh but it's like we do get to see a male character grieve to some extent the way he grieves is very toxic and mostly uh by yelling

at his son uh-huh um there is at least a grieving narrative i feel like a lot of the time men are not like part of word to believe the reason that women are attracted to him is because he is grieving his wife at all yeah like she's like oh i've got to be with him if i died he'd be pissed like so the the real big subversion the actual huge subversion of this movie when it comes to like you know the rom-com genre is that it's the woman stalking the man this time right which we've hinted at already, but... Do not stalk! No! Just do not! Unless it's just on Instagram on a fake account that you have. And then stalk away, baby. Don't miss 67.

I just made a quick list of all the things that she does. She calls around to figure out how to get in touch with the radio show then she calls the radio show to get his phone number she calls his phone number gets his last name does a very old google search slash like hacker thing to search for him figures out that he's an architect because computer said right right And then hires someone to do the background check and to take photos of him. Then she flies to Seattle, shows up at his house.

He's not there. She follows him on his boat, lurks around nearby, you know, watches him. A day passes, does the exact same thing where she follows him on a boat.

So what I'm hearing is she has a lot of agency. Yes. So it's good hearing is she has a lot of agency. Yes. So it's good? She sounds very independent. She's a very active character. She's brave for brave, brave. Yes.

Yeah, and the subtext to why women are lusting after Tom Hanks, a man who is truly doing the bare minimum of grieving his wife, is that women, I mean, there's this whole subtext to this movie that women would do anything to be shown genuine love from a man because it's like we see, even though Meg Ryan's character is receiving that

for most of the movie, and then she's like we see, even though Meg Ryan's character is receiving that for most of the movie. And then she's like, nah, I want a man I know yells at his son. Right. The idea is that all women, no matter what their circumstances are, are just desperate and like horny and just like need a man that they'll like send letters to a man they've never met something that is brought up a lot in this movie and i wanted to give some hot context for it is there is a statistic that is cited several points in this movie uh saying that you, it's easier to get killed by a terrorist than get married after 40.

So does anyone know the backstory for this? Oh, tell us. Tell us. All right. So this was a story that was published in Newsweek magazine where Nora Ephron worked for a long time and successfully

sued at one point because they were sexist, which there is a terrible Amazon Prime series about. If anyone cares. There was a cover story that I believe was in the mid-70s published in Newsweek that I think Nora Ephron is trying to comment

on in this movie because she hates Newsweek magazine because she sued them but they they published a cover story about how women over 40 were fucked like that was what the story was it was all false statistics there was like Newsweek later had to retract the story but even so because the story came out and came out at a time where apparently everyone was reading newsweek there were charts it was written by wait for it all men and it was saying that like single women after a certain point in their life just basically become defunct and there was this chart that said like you're more likely for this to happen you're more likely for this to

happen and the more likely to be killed by a terrorist thing was the thing everyone remembered. So what Nora Ephron is trying to do is roast Newsweek because Nora Ephron, if you're a fan of hers,

is notoriously very petty, which is why I love her. Nora, if you watch, if you learn anything about her and then watch one of her movies, you're like, there she goes again. She can't let anything go, which I can relate with.

In any case, that's why that is cited in this script over and over, even though they don't make that clear. It's weird because we first hear that statistic said by Meg Ryan's male co-workers. And then Meg Ryan, every time it's said, the woman in the scene says, that's not true because they're supposed to be Nora Ephron's pettiness. And they're right, it's not true. But I feel like there's a few different male characters

written into this script that are cartoonishly misogynist right so that meg ryan will look chill which she is not yeah i feel like the movie makes an attempt to show any man who says this statistic to like show them to be stupid stupid you know then like victor garber who titanic connection hot victor garber is so handsome well like rita wilson's character is like that's not true that's statistic is not true and then he's just like yeah okay and my read was like the movie's trying to make them seem like idiot assholes but i don't know it felt like it wasn't because even so like every time it's employed the the female character is like that's not true but she's still made out to look ridiculous because the scene where rita wilson's like that's not true she's

still sobbing about what sounds like a very troubling movie yeah yeah yeah yeah the men they're made to seem like idiots but at the time, the women in the movie are all portrayed to be like, I need love from a man or more love from a man because we've got Meg Ryan's character who is in a committed relationship that seems to be caring, but then she's like, but he's not good enough and I need more romance from a guy. In most Nora Ephron movies, her vibe is very much like,

I'm going to make men and women equally irrational and neurotic and impossible to understand their rationale for everything. And that's true equality. Is everyone's out of their minds. That's true. Everyone's yelling at their son. Just Tom Hanks is yelling at his son.

Okay, his son spends time yelling at him. His son's a roommate. His son is not his son. His son is 40. His son is 40. They're like sitting in an egg-shaped chair listening to the Beatles backwards. Do you glance over most of the things

that a 50-year-old would do with a person he met from a record store? Because that's a good portion of this movie. I do like that Jonah's best friend is a girl because I feel like there's not that much representation on screen of a young boy and a young girl being friends. And she also is smart,

and although she also sobs at this troubling movie... She's also a hacker. She's a hacker as well, yeah. And she knows how to get the tickets. She's basically like 93 StubHub. She knows how to get the tickets. She's basically like 93 StubHub. She knows how to get the tickets and how to get him on the plane. And she sets up the whole itinerary. And then she's like, okay, time to die, probably.

And then she withholds information about where he is. So that he certainly dies. But the movie has a happy ending. Feminist Psych on Jessica. One of the big things I noticed about this movie is that the characters within Sleepless in Seattle are very influenced by other media and other movies. And, you know, the Cary Grant version of No Fair to Remember gets referenced a lot. Annie says something like you know she's watching it and she's like no those were the days when people knew how to be in love

and rosie o'donnell's like you're you're crazy it's a movie like that's your problem you don't want to be in love you want to be in love in a movie but this movie sleepless in seattle is still it's like the exact same thing it's still like a romance movie where we're all tricked into thinking that love is real. I mean, this, wow. It's dark, Caitlin. Oh my God. So in A Fair to Remember, I did a deep dive on. So in A Fair to Remember is an important part of this movie.

It's like where the construct of the empire state building in the valentine state comes from right but also like it turns out there's a lot of stuff that's from the movie including like somebody being creepy and taking pictures of them it doesn't pass the bechdel test no surprise from 1957 doesn't pass the Bechdel test. It's actually a remake of another movie called Love Affair from 1939. Oh, weird.

It's a Star is Born, basically. They keep remaking it. Here's the important part. The important part is in the movie the women cry over it and then the men mock the women for is in the movie, the women cry over it. And then the men mock the women for crying over the movie in A Fair to Remember. And get teary-eyed and fake upset about the movie Dirty Dozen. Yes.

So I take hormones. And there becomes a period between my dosages of hormones when I have the most amount of testosterone. So I'm manned up. I had a beer. I watched football. I ate a pizza. Then I watched Dirty Dozen. Okay.

It was all right. Yeah. This is going to be another shock. It doesn't pass the big time. What? I know. Are the Dirty dirty dozen not all women the longest a woman's on screen is someone getting stabbed no

cool cool you know a feminist text then but but then to try and, with a hypothesis, I had my dosage of estrogen. And then I watched An Affair to Remember. Okay. And I think I timed it wrong. It just like put me to sleep. It was just, there's a couple kind of, there's a couple like musical numbers. There's musical numbers in all the other Affair to Remember remakes. Okay.

Got it. And it's quasi-racist. Sure, of course. Oh, cool. But the only other thing to let you know is there's another remake of an Affair to Remember

that's an Indian one. So there's a Bollywood version of an Affair to Remember called Mon, and that one's three hours long. I watched that one. Sober. Andy, why?

It has four dance numbers and they're all good. It passed the Bechdel test. But then I have a new test, which is finding the movies that are three hours long but still somehow don't pass the back till time like there are so there are more than a few but i was yeah that's so that was my research oh my god thank you wiki links that was crazy Daphne Caruana Galizia was a Maltese investigative journalist who on October 16, 2017, was murdered.

There are crooks everywhere you look now. The situation is desperate. My name is Manuel Delia. I am one of the hosts of Crooks Everywhere, a podcast that unhearts the plot to murder a one-woman Wikileaks. Daphne exposed the culture of crime and corruption that were turning her beloved country into a mafia state. And she paid the ultimate price. Listen to Crooks Everywhere on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. To listen to new episodes one week early and 100% ad-free,

subscribe to the iHeart True Crime Plus channel, available exclusively on Apple Podcasts. I've been thinking about you. I want you back in my life. It's too late for that. I have a proposal for you. Come up here and document my project. All you need to do is record everything like you always do. One session. 24 hours. BPM 110.

120. She's terrified. Should we wake her up? Absolutely not. What was that? You didn't figure it out? I think I need to hear you say it. That was live audio of a woman's nightmare.

This machine is approved and everything? You're allowed to be doing this? We passed the review board a year ago. We're not hurting people. There's nothing dangerous about what you're doing. They're just dreams. Dream Sequence is a new horror thriller from Blumhouse Television, iHeartRadio,

and Realm. Listen to Dream Sequence on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. In a galaxy far, far away. No, babe, that's taken. We're in our own world, remember? Right, in our own world.

We're two space cadets. And totally normal humans. Sure, totally normal humans. Embark on a journey across the stars, discovering the wonders of the universe one episode at a time. We'll talk about life, love, laughter, and why you should never argue with your co-pilot. Especially when she's always right.

Right. And if we hit turbulence, just blame it on Mercury retrograde. Or Emily's questionable space piloting skills. Hey! Join us on In Our Own World for cosmic conversations, stellar laughs, and super corny dad jokes listen to in our own world as a part of the my cultura podcast network available on the iheart radio app apple podcast or wherever you get your podcasts and don't worry we promise to avoid any black holes most of the time so an affair to remember did not make you cry like it does all of the women in this movie. You know, I mistimed it because I ended up watching my roommates

were watching Steven Universe the next day and I was in tears. I get in tears over the most ridiculous things when I have a head full of estrogen. Thank you for this deep dive that you have done. This is why this didn't help you at all.

No, this is very good context for the conversation we're going to have. That was content, content, content. I loved it. In movies so often that are referencing older movies, they kind of keep continually saying like uh this is when love was real back when women couldn't vote like they're

like it's like we see all these female characters longing for a time when they had less rights and and then this movie kind of reinforces the idea that like there are certain movies that are women's movies and there are certain movies that are guys movies because like the women are all crying over including like gabby hoffman are crying over an affair to remember the men are making fun of them they're saying oh dirty dozen is what i like to watch yeah like and Cumming. My name is Victor Garber. He was like, ew. Victor Garber is, this is the only role I've ever seen him in that I was like, oh, how could you? Like he, legally blonde.

What? He's hot in that movie though. It's like, he's not. So I forgive him. In this movie, he was wearing an outfit that, I was like, I could take or leave this look, and he was being horrible. I did like the constant acronyms from the kids.

Like H and B. I am I. Why didn't that stick? And then there's the weird part where, like, Jonah is talking about reincarnation and the possibility of reincarnation and how he could be reincarnated from another plane. I'm like, this kid is on mushrooms.

He's listening to Beatles records backwards and talking about reincarnation it's probably that we like find out that he's 36 and adopted and we're just seeing him from an outside perspective oh one more thing where a character is influenced by a movie is Sam talks about fatal attraction and how it scared the shit out of him he's like it scared the shit out of me and every man in america and he cites that

as a reason to not go and meet annie in new york city which doesn't make sense because it has nothing to do with fatal attraction and you can literally it was just so dumb of like a line that it's like remember that movie that's semi-recent and so it the movie practically like pauses for laughs everyone could be like fatal attraction women who want careers are scary like um but it has nothing to do with fatal attraction it's the same punch line that's like this is at a time when uh the crying game is still used as a punchline for a reveal about a trans woman. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Like, this is a big time, like, crying game.

And, like, we're supposed to laugh. There were so many. Get it? I was like, no. Yeah, there were so many, like, trans panic movies from, like, Silence of the Lambs. And then earlier was Sleepaway Camp. Like, oh, God. I haven't seen that. There's a line where Rosie O'Donnell

says the following. The guy could be a crackhead, a transvestite. Yeah. Oh, that'd be trouble. Jesus Christ. Oh, no, there's more work to do. Yeah. This is still in the middle of, like,

trans women are dangerous. This is, like, the hot part of the 90s. Oh, for sure. Yeah, we're... Now we're in danger. How progressive. Right. Can we talk about the map graphic

that seems to happen? It's like, you can go to the... You can go to the bathroom and then come back and it's still going across. I think that was like... First of all, this movie does take place in too many cities. So I found it helpful. And I kind of like when movies are like...

Let's assume everyone seeing this movie is an absolute idiot. And they can't remember. Because I am that viewer. And it was helpful for me. I don't know how worth it is to talk about this. But there is discussion of the changing landscape of dating that the Sam character has to deal with. Oh, yeah. Because Tom Hanks and Rob Reiner's characters

are talking about, you know, Sam's got to get back out there. The boys are getting some brews and they're talking about the chicks. There is a moment where we alluded to this earlier, but they talk about Tom Hanks' butt. And I feel like a lot of movies would, especially from this era,

would have taken that opportunity to do, like, no homo. I don't know if you're attractive or not like but rob reiner's like i think it's a good butt and tom hanks says thanks yeah i thought that was genuinely cute yeah i like even upon re-watching i thought it was very cute i was like all right you got me right but then uh rob reiner's like well nowadays you split the check with your date and then sam's like i don't think i could ever let a woman pay for dinner so he is not a feminist icon right but also if a man is like that like take his money like so like if a guy gets all fucking scary white knight he's like no madame i was like all right fine i will get more like dipshit

and then he works up the nerve to call victoria who is called a hoe in this movie like 40 times like treated so terribly yeah she did nothing wrong all she did is enjoy herself yeah she just giggled here and there when tom hanks made a goof it's it's the same like treatment if you like go back and watch an episode of seinfeld you're like that person just has one thing that makes them quirky and they're exaggerating it so much as a reason to like break up with them yeah and that's like one of the things that i saw that uh tom hanks and meg ryan's character actually had in common is that they would write off what seems like a positive relationship based on one thing such as as laughing or allergies. Yeah. So I'm like, oh, they deserve each other. They're horrible.

They're both basically George Costanza. Yes. I'm fine sleeping in a room with a humidifier. That's not bad. That can be rather nice. Who doesn't like a rainforest? Well, yeah.

I feel for Victoria in this movie because she truly seems like she really likes him. For quite some time, it seems like he likes her as well. But it's like Jonah just goes rogue. Like he's just, he hates her. It is so unclear. He just is like, no, I want scary lady now. And like, he just goes totally rogue he's on

mushrooms the kid goes full in so he does yeah then whenever he does work up the nerve to call victoria and like ask her out that phone conversation we only hear sam's side of it but it's clear that like she's calling all the shots like she's deciding where to go to dinner what time they're gonna go they're gonna meet there rather than like him picking her up and like her being just a decisive woman who knows what she wants is framed by the movie as being like oh no she's scary and weird so i didn't like that but she yeah it's like she's truly just uh out here trying to have a job in a relationship okay right leave victoria alone but then she says like i'm so glad you called me i thought no you were never gonna call and it's like call him i hope she and bill pullman met each other

because that's a lovely story is it me or is bill pullman look like face from the a team for the most of them i don't i don't know i'm sorry sorry i this is peak bill pullman for me oh absolutely i mean he's firing on all cylinders here he's about to reach peak bill pullman which canonically is Daddy and Casper. That is... His character, it sucks because he truly did nothing wrong, but it's just like any... I don't know. In some ways, I feel like it's punishing him for any sort of gentleness

and making out gentleness in a man to be emasculating and a weakness and something that Meg Ryan seems to find completely repulsive is that when he is affectionate towards her, she's like, ugh, and she gets in the closet with her radio. Or the fact that he has any illness makes her, you know. I don't know. that he has any illness makes her, you know, and, and I don't know,

it's, it's just so bizarre the way this character is treated, but Victoria is treated much the same way of like, she's doing nothing wrong. She seems to be invested in the relationship and they're just both treated like dog shit. Yeah. But the thing with Bill Pullman's character is that scene at the end where Meg Ryan can you imagine someone you are about to marry

sits you down and says, okay, so there's this radio show on Valentine's Day. It's literally like if someone in this audience, like if there's a couple here who's about to get married and then one of you sat the other one down and is like, so there's this podcast called the back dog ass i was gonna update it further it's like

so i met somebody on snapchat or okay it's like okay if if i say i'm getting married i sit the person i'm getting married down and i'm like listen i heard this show called The Joe Rogan Experience and I have to marry Joe Rogan today. And my partner was like, I totally understand. We've already figured out the wedding favor is going to be a DMT. Yeah, his reaction is so accommodating that is he on mushrooms i i just feel so badly for for him there could be a super cut of all of the partners of the different main couples across these movies just totally peacing out from the relationship totally amicably. And it is ridiculous.

There are different levels of like, no, go ahead. I just want you to be happy. No one wants Meg Ryan to be happy. What's the alternative? He like captures her and he's like, you're mine. No, I think the alternative is like, okay, this fucking sucks. But if this is what you have to do, I guess fuck off. Like he could speak to her as if he were frustrated.

What she's doing is obnoxious and unhinged. So there is a weird trope that I need. If you have more examples of this trope, please shout it out. But ghost of his wife trope appears in this movie. It also happens in Casper with ghost daddy Bill Pullman. The only person hotter in Casper than Bill Pullman is Bill Pullman's ghost. Bill Pullman is Bill Pullman's

ghost during the part where Bill Pullman's a ghost but yeah Tom Hanks' wife comes over she's in a nightgown she's got a glass of wine and Tom Hanks is just

like I miss you my wife and she's like it's okay but we agree that they're like in Seattle by Tom Hanks is just like, I miss you, my wife. And she's like, it's okay. But we agree that they're in Seattle by that point, right? Yes. The ghost had to get on a plane. The ghost came with them. It's an old chest of drawers she died in.

And they're like, I know this fella on her had killed her, but let's just keep it around. That was just like a weird extension of the his wife trope is like she just came to deposit a piece of wisdom and to basically give him permission to fuck Meg Ryan at some point. Which is, you know, I mean, she was already, her headstone has already been yelled at by tom hanks and to add insult to injury they gotta fly her ghost out to seattle to say it's okay to hook up

with meg ryan i don't find that trope to be that troubling i just think it's bad writing yeah sure sure but there are certainly more regressive tropes around. I think it's dumb. I think it works in movies that are like supernatural, I guess. But then again, like you end up with something where a wife has to die to be some sort of mechanism for the movie moving forward. Right. Like some woman has to die. Yeah.

True. And I mean, Tom Hanks and ryan both need kind of just to continue acting as they're acting throughout the movie which is irrationally i feel like they add in characters to give them permission to act that way i think rosie o'donnell's character is used like that a lot where sometimes meg ryan will call her and just be like is what I'm doing unsafe and irrational? And there's like a scene where Rosie O'Donnell's like, somehow, no. And Becker has like, sounds good. Hear that, audience?

It's fine. Click. Like, it's just so fucking weak. I will say Rosie O'Donnell is like, she's almost cast like a quasi-Ricky Lake in the role and she nails Baltimore. Like, that is a Baltimore attitude in a kind of Kirkland way. And I give them props for that.

But then again, like, that newspaper would just be covering murders. There's more going on in Baltimore. No, no, there's a lonely man in Seattle. Sorry, this corpse just washed up in front of your house. Because we found corpses in front of our house. Really? I worked right there. And then we'd just have to shut off our work because just find bodies.

Oh, my God. Not necessarily murders, just like, you know, a corpse. Sure. Of course. That died of natural causes? You know, a drunk person falls in. Yeah. I mean, as we know from the jinx, that corpse that washes up.

Feminist type of murder. The jinx. That was Robert Durst self-defending himself. Yeah, you dismember your neighbor in self-defense. Anyway. Yeah, you dismember your neighbor in self-defense. Anyway. He's innocent. And then our other

female character that we see semi-frequently is Sam's sister played by his wife. And we don't really know that much about her

except that she I mean she sort of uses like an exposition machine basically to be like hey you should move to i don't know seattle i mean she just sort of functions in relation to sam yeah the first thing that she says is uh here's how to make food because women be cooking. And then later, that long scene where she is recapping the movie of An Affair to Remember and crying during it. So at least I don't do that

as I'm recapping movies on the podcast. But I am Victor Garber-ing the whole time. Is there a movie you would cry as you recite back the Titanic? Paddington 2. Maybe I'm just like an emotional robot, but describing a movie doesn't make me cry. Does that happen? Do people cry when you describe a movie?

I don't think people describe movies to each other very much. I think we just do that. But I think that's one of the things of this movie. Women are just shown as being so emotional that the thought of a romantic story will make you just cry for a while.

Oh, yeah. That's stupid. Yeah. But also, I cry constantly at the drop of a hat about many things. Okay. However, the description of that movie sounds just like, oh no. I will say, in the middle of Mon, the three-hour Bollywood version essentially of this movie,

there becomes a part where the female lead starts washing the feet of the grandmother in the temple and uh i got teary-eyed during that okay that's it that's where it passes the bechdel test oh i mean crying during a movie i think is normal but crying while describing yeah that i don't know not to shame anyone who that, but I feel like that just doesn't happen very often. But all the women shown in this movie are constantly talking about an affair to remember. Even the security guard at the end is like, oh,

yeah, I'm at the Empire State Building and you're trying to go up to the roof? Just like that movie, it's my wife's favorite. You could have easily been written that so that he was his favorite nope there are boy movies and there are girl movies only i mean well boys as we all know should be listening to beatles records backwards and being yelled at by their fathers do we have

any other final thoughts uh no this movie absolutely blows don't watch it should we take some questions comments from the crowd any QCs come on down so that you're talking into the mic yes you I just wanted to mention my favorite scene in the movie where half the

cast is yelling at Gabby Hoffman about where that annoying kid is. And her father walks up and introduces himself saying, this is your father speaking. Like explaining who he is to her. I just wanted to know your thoughts on that. I hope that that was them meeting for the first time. He's like, listen, I was called in after nine years how old are those kids like eight nine yeah 40 yeah i think that that was them meeting uh canon yeah yeah yeah yes i thought it was interesting i don I want to know your thoughts on this, that the only attribute that the child Jonah gets to learn about his mom

is that she could peel an apple, like, in one whole strip, and that somehow is the, like, I don't know. That was just weird, I thought. Thank you for bringing that up, because that is, first of all, so specific that hearing it said out loud, you're like, ew? And then just to be sure, you also see Meg Ryan do it. And then you're like, ew. No one would do that.

Ew. Why is she so handy with a knife? Why is... It's like... Seeing this stalker character use a knife handily is like, yikes. That's like in all action movies when somebody's like peeling like an apple with a bowie knife,

you know they're gonna be the one to stab somebody. Yes, right. Like that seems like it's an omen. Right. When she's like listening to him on the radio and is like. It's like she's thinking of that as like his skin. And she's crying during that scene too because women be crying all the time.

But not so hard they can't see their knife. Thank you for bringing that up. When I couldn't sleep, mom would split wood with a hatchet sharpened on her foot. Any other questions, comments? Yeah. So I just need to get this off my chest because I'm super embarrassed about this. I've seen this movie once years ago. I remember nothing about it before coming to the show.

But this was like my partner and my movie that we watched on our first date and i guess we found this like romantic enough to like still be dating like four years later but we started like i was sleepless in seattle and i'm like oh my god brave for sharing yes sorry let's applaud this bravery please thank you you're a hero do you have any couple movies? Like, movies you have in your relationships? I think I've told this anecdote on the podcast before, but in one of my worst relationships ever,

it started with The Gentleman, if you can call him that. I went over to his apartment. I was like 19 or 20. And he was just like, I love Drive. Ever seen it? And I was like, no. And he was like, let's watch it.

I have it in the DVD player already. He had Drive queued up. And then we were watching it I personally think that movie is a fucking drag was not enjoying it and then he was just like there's a scorpion jacket in the movie and he kept looking over

he's just like that jacket's cool right and I was like I guess 20 minutes later he was like I have that jacket okay but that's also the jacket. Somebody help me out here. It's a jacket also in a gay

cruising movie. Oh, really? Yeah, it's a really famous jacket. Like a Scorpio rising jacket. Oh, wow. I'm forgetting the name of it, but it's from a gay... It's like a reference to something? Yeah, it's a gate cruising jacket. Hell yeah.

So he's like, I have the jacket. He pulls the jacket out of his closet and just leaves it next to me suggestively. And then 20 minutes later, he's like, I've always wanted to make out while a girl's wearing that jacket. And then I dated him for three years. Oh my God. while a girl's wearing that jacket. And then I dated him for three years. I'm a feminist.

I've never been in a relationship, so I have no movies. I'm in a relationship with myself and our movie is Paddington. Hell yeah. Oh, I know. I'm sorry. Did you think I didn't know? in our movie is Paddington. Hell yeah. Paddington 2 is better, though. Oh, I know. I'm sorry. Did you think I didn't know that Paddington 2 was better?

I still haven't seen Paddington 2. Caitlin made me watch it on Christmas. I saw the first one by myself, and I enjoyed it. It's so good. It's great. They're great. I think me and my partner, ours is just the,

it's really just the seventh season of Simpsons. Because you have to decide, if you're in a long enough relationship, you have to decide which season of The Simpsons you agree is the best. I can tell you right now, it'll help you. We've been together for 17 years. Hell yeah!

You find a season that we liked season 7. Beautiful. That's a beautiful love story. Gang, does this movie pass the Bechdel test? Well, I... There is a quick exchange toward the beginning where Annie's mom is holding up a dress.

And so they talk about this dress back and forth for a couple lines. But the rest of the conversation is about Walter and about Annie's dad. And the context is like, here, take this dress so that you can marry a man. Right, so you can marry Bill Pullman. Yeah. I don't feel like it passes at all. Yeah, every other exchange either... I thought there was an exchange between Meg and Rosie

where they're talking about a Polaroid commercial and there's something about a refrigerator. Oh. I wasn't fully listening. This movie's very boring. But I know they're not talking about a man. They're talking about some commercial. I wasn't fully listening. This movie's very boring. But I know they're not talking about a man. They're talking about some commercial. I missed that one.

But there are a number of exchanges. There aren't as many as you would think, I guess. Because there are a lot of female characters in this movie. They're just not really frequently seen interacting with the exception of Meg Ryan and Rosie O'Donnell. Right, yeah.

And almost all of their conversations are about a man in Seattle that she's never met or Walter. Does it count as a conversation if she's yelling at the radio where Dr. Marcia is? I wrote that down too! I was like, if she's yelling at Dr. Marcia. No, but also a compelling argument. Does it pass the Bechdel test if Tom Hanks is yelling at a child? Yes. Yes.

I think Alfred Molina could have played Jonah. You stepped on my cheek. I'm so sorry. I think he could have played Jonah, and I think he could have played Jonah? You stepped on my cheek. I'm so sorry. I think he could have played Jonah and I think he could have played Jonah well. I think if Tom Hanks is yelling at Alfred Molina who's playing a nine-year-old, we've got a psychological thriller in our hands

and I would love it. So that's, yeah. Also, it tragically passes the Bechdel test. Wow. Yeah. I've seen two different readings where it like did or didn't pass the test. Yeah, it's, I will say I did think

that that exchange with Megan Rosey did pass. Okay. Yeah, that I totally forgot. So that says something about that conversation i've seen this maybe three times in the past week and i don't remember that conversation boring i watched this movie like 45 minutes ago i still don't work yeah but i guess it passes so hooray so yeah it is so female stalking is fine it's back back. Well, with that, let's rate it on our nipple scales. Yeah.

Yard of Five Nipples, based on its portrayal of women. I think that it gets, like, a half nipple. Women are portrayed as just being these, like, blubbering, like, always crying, like, hyper-emotional, like, no matter what, I need more men in my life. Yeah, the fact that she is stalking and that's not addressed in any way. And it's actually seen as being very cool and romantic. She's given permission to do it by multiple characters. I was like, when you do it, it's okay. Right, right. The movie subverts the trope of men stalking women,

but that's also not good. So yeah, I guess a half nipple because Gabby Hoffman, are you giving your nip to, I'll give my nipple to, I guess to Nora Ephron. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Uh, cause she did write and direct it. So, I mean, we've got a female filmmaker, but she didn't do a very good job. I'm going to give this movie a nipple and a half. Okay. Because I

am a Nora Ephron stan, even though she, you know, mistakes are made. But she did marry Carl Bernstein and then they got divorced and then she roasted him non-stop until she died which was fucking incredible and i i just i love nora effron so much um and uh that has nothing to do with this movie, although she's clearly the person driving it. But it's weird.

I think kind of a recurring problem throughout her movies is that she kind of tries to have it both ways a lot of time, where all her female characters are very active, but what they're active doing, you're like, oh, no. I mean, we can't deny ryan's character is active as fuck because she is committing crimes you know like she is she's actively stalking someone the whole movie uh she's trying to subvert things at times that i think miss the mark with like uh every time a woman you know refutes like, that terrorist statistic is wrong.

But then she's also kind of made to look dumb in the same scene, women being blubbering dummies. But they're also hackers. It's true. There's a lot of mixed bagginess to this movie that doesn't... I don't even think that the female stalker thing

is an issue of its time. It's just weird, okay? But I'll go nipple and a half and i'll give uh one to nora and i'll give the other half to rosie all right i'm gonna give it uh well considering i'd watched all of the other love affair there's a fair to remember there's the other love affair from 94 there's the Bollywood movie and then this I think in the oeuvre of all

the affairs it's the only one where a woman doesn't get struck down in traffic so can I give it at least one nipple for that and I'll give another nipple for the girl, Jessica. And also, I'll cross both those nipples for the hopeful sequel that follows Jonah and Jessica

as Jonah goes on to create Instagram. And Jessica invents the first Himalayan salt lamp. Compelling. I like that movie. So, yeah, this movie is boring. And I don't like it.

Thanks for coming. Yes, thanks. Andy, where can people follow you online what would you like to plug I do the comedy nest downstairs here in the grotto every Tuesday it's an awesome hate free female focused show and room

great thank you so much for joining us give it up for Andy my co-workers are probably listening to this right now. I'm probably on break. Hell yeah. Thank you for coming. Give it up for yourselves.

Thank you. There you have it. That was the last of the live shows that we recorded on our West Coast tour. Thanks again to our guest, Andy Iwansio, for joining us. Thank you to the Jewel Box Theater at the Rendezvous in Seattle and all of their staff for helping us to put on the various shows that we did there in Seattle. Thanks again to Sam Junio for recording the show and being our road dog for the West Coast tour. And speaking of tours, we've got another one coming up in the Northeast.

We will be in New York, Philadelphia, Washington, D.C., and Boston at the end of April and beginning of May. So check out our website Bechdelcast.com and click on live appearances for all of the dates, venues, and other details for those shows. And if you live in or near any of those places, we hope to see you there. And then all the usual stuff. Follow us on twitter instagram and facebook at bechtel cast write and review us on itunes that helps us out a lot subscribe to our matreon at patreon.com slash bechtel cast where we do two bonus episodes every single month and it's only five dollars what a damn good special and then we've also got merch at tpublic.com slash

the Bechtel cast, including a few new designs by our very own Jamie Loftus like Woman in Stem and Rise of the Matriarchy. And that about does it for this episode, so thanks as always for listening

and this is Sleepless in Seattle signing off. Just kidding kidding it's Caitlin bye Daphne Caruana Galizia was a Maltese investigative journalist who on October 16th 2017 was assassinated crooks everywhere unearthed the plot to murder a one woman wiki leaks she exposed the culture of crime and corruption that were turning her beloved country into a mafia state. Listen to Crooks everywhere on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. To listen to new episodes one week early and 100% ad-free, subscribe to the iHeart True

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