The Bechdel Cast - Swing Girls with Ayumi Shinozaki

Episode Date: May 29, 2025

This week, Jamie, Caitlin, and special guest Ayumi Shinozaki form a jazz band and discuss Swing Girls (2004)! Follow Ayumi on social media at @ayusheknows, check out her podcast Sparkleside Chats and follow it at @magicalgirlayu, and check out the new podcast Charm Point Radio, coming soon!See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. I'm Andrea Gunning, host of the podcast Betrayal. Police Lieutenant Joel Kern used his badge to fool everyone. Most of all, his wife, Caroline. He texted, I've ruined our lives. You're going to want to divorce me. How far would he go to cover up what he'd done? The fact that you lied is absolutely horrific.

And quite frankly, I question how many other women are out there that may bring forward allegations in the future. Listen to Betrayal on the iHeart radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Amy Robach and TJ Holmes here. Diddy's former protege, television personality, Denity King alum Aubrey O'Day joins us to provide a unique perspective on the trial that has captivated the attention of the nation. It wasn't all bad,

but I don't know that any of the good was real. I went through things there. Listen to Amy and TJ presents Aubrey O'Day covering the Diddy Trial on the iHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Have you ever thought about going voiceover? I'm Hope Woodard, a comedian, creator, and seeker of male validation. I'm also the girl behind voiceover, the movement that exploded in 2024. You might hear that term and think it's about celibacy, but to me, VoiceOver is about understanding yourself outside of sex and relationships.

It's flexible, it's customizable, and it's a personal process. Singleness is not a waiting room. You are actually at the party right now. Let me hear it. Listen to voiceover on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I've seen a lot of stuff over 30 years, you know, some very despicable crime and things that are kind of tough to wrap your head around.

And this ranks right up there in the pantheon of Rhode Island fraudsters. I've always been told I'm a really good listener, right? And I maximized that while I was lying. Listen to deep cover, The Truth About Sarah on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. On the pecto cast, the questions asked, if movies have women in them?

Are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands, or do they have individualism? The patriarchy's effin vast, start changing it with the Bechdel cast. Hey Jamie. Hey Caitlin. Do you want to start a little band with me? No. Oh. Unless...

Huh? There's a baseball player I can impress. But twist, I love playing the baritone sax. And I love playing the trumpet. This movie is so powerful that it got me through some baritone sax related trauma. Wow. That I will be oversharings related trauma. Wow. That I will be oversharing in a bit.

Please. But I really, for years, I've hated, detested, despised the baritone sex for what it, baritone sex, baritone sacks. Okay. For what it's done. And actually that was a Freudian slip though, shortly makes sense. For what it did to my life.

And now I realize that it's actually a tool by which women can come of age and empower themselves. And so actually it's amazing when wielded properly. Nicole So true, so true. I don't have any saxophone related trauma. Bragg. Thank you so much. And I was in jazz band and I don't have any jazz band related trauma. You were in jazz band? Yeah, because even though I played the clarinet, not to freaking brag my ass off. No, go for it.

But I was so good as a sixth grade clarinet player. Okay. The band teacher was like, you should be in jazz band, even though we don't traditionally have clarinets in the jazz band. But it can be a jazzy instrument. True, true.

So I was like, flattery? Yes, of course I'll be in jazz band. That's so cool. Wow, how prestigious. I know. And then I quit a year later because I was like, I'm too cool for a band Wow and Not to drag you but you're not I'm not I was so wrong about that. No one's too cool for band

Look at this movie. I know I know that now being a band is maybe the cool I actually do think that this and I'm also so excited to talk about this movie in conversation with my favorite movie ever school of rock so excited to talk about this movie in conversation with my favorite movie ever School of Rock. Where it's just like going to music class will turn you into the world's coolest person. Yeah. Which is not true, but I do like that it is a lie that is pushed in movies for children. Right. Anyway, so today's movie is... Oh wait, this is the Bechdel cast. Yeah, okay, right, right, right. They are the Bechtel cast.

Hold on, hold on, hold on. My name is Caitlin Durante, comma, amazing clarinet player, period. My name is Jamie Loftus, comma, amazing oboe player, but that's not jazz relevant. Yeah, I almost played the clarinet, and this is, again, I've been talking about SpongeBob

so much on the podcast recently. I think the episodes are gonna come out of order, but I was talking your ear off yesterday about it. And I will say, in elementary school, where they show you all the instruments, and they're like, okay, what instrument would you like to play? I liked the clarinet a lot, but then I was like,

wait, Squidward plays the clarinet. And Squidward sucks. And I don't want, and I was genuinely afraid because I was a tall girl, that if I played the clarinet, people would call me Squidward. Wow. So it was anticipatory bullying that kept me away from the clarinet.

Oh. It didn't even happen. But I played the oboe and the oboe rocks. So it all worked out. Nice. Anyways, this is our show where we talk about your favorite movies using an intersectional feminist lens, using the Bechdel test as a jumping off point.

But Caitlin, what the hell is that? Oh my gosh, it's just a media metric created by our best friend at this point, Alison Bechdel, who also, sorry, I have to say listeners that there's a lot of commotion happening outside my apartment and in the apartment upstairs where there's a dog who is howling loudly. So you might hear commotion on my end, but you know, this is a movie with some commotion in it, especially before they get good at music. I love the part of this style of movie when they suck. It's so great. It's so awesome.

This movie reminds me of one of my favorite movies, The Full Monty, in the sense that most of the movie is like them gearing up for a performance and them like mostly sucking. So true. Most of the time. Yeah. But anyway, okay, the Bechdel test. Oh, right. Yeah.

It's a media metric. There are many versions of it. The one that we use is, do two characters of a marginalized gender have names? Do they speak to each other? And is there conversation about something other than a man? And we particularly like it when it's a narratively meaningful conversation and not just throw away dialogue.

And it's a good day for the Bechdel test on the pod. Very excited. And it's a good day on the pod for so many reasons, because we have an incredible returning guest. We absolutely do. She is a writer, translator and host and producer of Sparkle Side Chats podcast. It's Ayumi Shinozaki. Hello. Hello. Welcome. Welcome back. I'm so so so glad that I got the chance to be back. Oh my god. We're so happy to have you.

Yes. And thank you for bringing us this movie. Holy cow. Like if you are listening and you haven't seen this movie, you're going to be in such a good mood. You're going to be in the best mood ever. We're covering Swing Girls 2004. And yeah, Amy, you brought us this movie.

So let's start with your history with it. What's your history with this? Sure. Yeah. So Swing Girls. Well, actually, when I first watched this movie, I literally had no idea what it was because for anyone who doesn't know me, I was born in Japan and grew up in the US and then came back to Japan right after college. So that's where I still am now. And when I first got back, one of my first things was like, oh, I really need to try to consume as much like, basically not like all the media miss, because there's simply way too much. But I wanted to watch a lot more basically live action Japanese media, because frankly, 99% of what gets exported around the world, especially in the US, is animation,

which is fine. There's a lot of good stuff from Japan, but you know, there's more. Now in Japan, we still have something called the Video Rental Store. They still exist. So what is that? I know this ancient, ancient technology. But yeah, so I got myself like a rental card or whatever, a membership to my local video store. And I just would wander the shelves looking for TV shows, movies, et cetera. And actually important note for today's episode is this is still the only way that you can actually legally watch this movie in Japan is going to the video store to get it. Oh, wow. Or to buy the DVD yourself. So I just saw it like on the shelf whatever. I didn't have

any idea what it was I just saw you know the the traditional cover with just Tomoko on a jumping and I was like okay well I like jazz music. I myself did not play jazz though I did play piano as a kid. But my father was in a jazz fusion band when I was like very young in Japan. It was like a band of a bunch of Japanese guys and then my white father. So it was very interesting. And then my brother was in a jazz band in high school. He went to Frank Sinatra High School. So it was a whole like thing in my family. Jazz was very big. So I was like, well, yeah, this sounds like awesome. I love jazz music. I love seeing a movie that's like a bunch of girls all hanging out or whatever.

And it seems very common and we'll talk about this with the when we talk about the other podcasts I'm coming out with soon. But like this kind of media is very common in general, like a group of kids doing club activities or whatever. Like the other major film that this director did before, Swing Girls, was Water Boys, which was basically the same thing, but it was about a bunch of boys who create a synchronized swimming club. Yeah, I didn't realize that this seems to be,

and you know far better than I do, but it seems like this is a formula that he loves working with. Yeah, I'm not super familiar with all of his other work. He's coming out with a horror movie this year. It was like his first movie since the pandemic. And so I don't know what he's up to these days, but yeah, that movie, Water Boys was really huge.

Like there were like TV spin-offs and stuff and that was actually based on a true story. So club activities in Japan are like such a major thing. They kind of take over your life. But I think what makes Swingirl so unique is that it's about a it's it's basically like a rogue school club, right? They're not official, they're not tied to their own school, actually, and everything. But they're like legitimized by the end of the story. So I just think that that's part of why I loved it so much. And of course, once like I first watched it, I was just like

blown away, and would like, you know, like look it up and stuff and just kind of talk to people about it. And it was huge, obviously, like an award winning film at the time. But because of its inaccessibility in Japan, like officially speaking, it's really not stood this test of time as far as like, basically everyone I talked to who wasn't around for it at the time, just has no idea what it is. Oh, that's such a bummer. Yeah, but like it's very, I think because it's a tea and a movie of a sort, like it

kind of makes sense to me because like there's always something new for the next generation of teens to like attach to, you know? So it's, it's kind of like how everyone who has like Disney Channel growing up has their own favorite D comms that are like, oh, these are like the greatest films to ever exist or whatever. But then if you like talk to someone five years younger, they have a completely different sense of what that is. Right. Yeah, I guess that this this really hits because it's like if you were a young girl in the like early to mid 2000s, there's just so many. It's a very 2000s movie for sure. She trades her computer for a saxophone. You're like, whoa, that would never happen today.

Yes. That's so fascinating. I love that there is still a prevalent video culture. There actually is still prevalent video culture. I mean, I live across the street from a video store, but there, you know, I did watch it for free on YouTube. Ultimately, I will confess my sins. Same, same. It's interesting. I did use that to, uh, to rewatch for this and that is not an official upload. So the subtitles are also not an official translation. I still think it's a pretty decent

translation. There's like a handful of things that would have probably been checked by an editor. Like I was very alarmed to see that they use the word pow wow in the subtitles. I was like, what? That's not what she says. Oh, yeah. I noticed that. Yeah. I didn't see that. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, I was like, that is not a word that like even has an equivalent in Japanese. Okay. But like in general, they're passable or whatever. And it's very clear that like a lot of people, like that has tons of views, right? So a lot of people have watched this movie through that.

So like, maybe it's not official, but like that's like, you know, that's a lot of media is this way. Like you wouldn't be able to find it otherwise. And there's just like so much Japanese media that goes like unnoticed. And it's especially media for girls and women, honestly, that don't get exported as often, at least in English, right?

So sure. I mean, to the point that I had never heard of this movie, because to speak to what you were saying, there's not a lot of live action film film from Japan that crosses over, that gets exported to the US. And I mean, obviously that's true for so much media from so many countries. We're our own media-making machine, and a lot of our output is bad, but it does get exported all across the world, whereas we don't import that much media from other places because of our weird US supremacy.

Which I think is slowly changing, but slowly changing. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, so I was not familiar with this at all. And I had no idea what to expect really. And I loved this movie. It is so fun. It's so charming. It's such a romp. Absolutely. Oh, 10 out of 10 on the rompometer.

It's like mostly pretty grounded, but also there are moments where it delves into like pretty absurdist territory, which I love. I love absurdist humor. There's just funny jokes throughout the whole, it's so great and I'm so glad you introduced it to us and I'm so excited to talk about it. But yeah, this was my first time seeing it.

I had not watched it before like three days ago. Jamie, what about you? I was not familiar with this movie. I saw when I was logging in on Letterboxx, there were a few friends who had seen it and they were all like, why is no one talking about this? So I do feel like this is the kind of movie that, especially because of what a wildly thriving market

millennial nostalgia is. I'm like, this movie should be playing plays as people would flip for this movie. Because I mean, like you and I connected with right away, Caitlin, like two of our favorite movies have this same formula. It's a classic formula that rarely, if ever, centers teen girls.

And like, it happened. It centered teen girls. Yeah, I also hadn't seen it. I also really loved it. And it also, at first I was like, oh my gosh, it's a band movie. Which I feel like in a lot of Hollywood media, the band movie outside of School of Rock,

but those kids are much younger, so it's different. The band is like, I don't know, I was deep into the band. And the band is portrayed as horny and weird and side characters. But what if they were horny and weird and main characters? And that is what Swing Girls explores. But no, I really loved it. I loved being in band as a high schooler

and I dated the baritone saxophone player. And he did break my heart. It is very funny how he did it though. Yes. So I was obsessed with him. He was two years older than me. I played the oboe. He played the baritone sax and it was an unspoken rule in band that you weren't supposed to date within your section and we were both woodwinds. So already it was like, oh my God. Fascinating. Scandal. Scandal.

And also he was really, really good. Like I was like a serviceable second chair oboist, but he was really good. Like he wanted to go to college for it. And so I was also, my involvement with him was interpreted as a threat to his baritone saxophone career. Oh, gee. His AIM screen name was Barry Sax Sexgod. Wait, you have talked about this person before.

I have talked about him. Yeah. Incredible. He's kind of iconic. Now I think he's married with kids. But in my life, he will always be Berry Sax Sax God. I will never forget my first AIM notification from Berry Sax Sax God I was like oh my god it's my big day. Anyways so he went to college for Berry Sax he literally majored in

saxophone at music college question mark I don't know but I was still in high school and then about halfway into his freshman year in college he broke up with me and gave me the and said at the time which I did not believe he was like I can't be in a relationship with you anymore I don't have enough time to practice the baritone saxophone. Like he literally dumped me for the baritone sax, which is why I have such beef with this thing. For a long time I was convinced that the love of my life was taken from me by the baritone saxophone. But I saw him like a couple years after that and I was just like, please put my mind at ease. Like it was another person, right? Like you met someone at college and he was like, no, and by that point he had no reason to lie to me about it.

So I was left for the baritone sex. A humbling experience. This is a movie, Jamie. You have to write the script. Like this is so funny. My mom literally let me take the day off of school, which was one of the nicest things she ever did, where I was like too sad to go to school and she was like, yeah, okay, sure.

But yeah, my first breakup was literally because of the baritone sax. So when I see it, I'm like, hmm, what are you going to do to me this time? Motherfucker. At least the Barry Sax isn't super prominently featured in this movie. We see it on screen, but it's the tenor sax that really gets the star of the show. And that just wasn't really my type. I'm like, give me the biggest saxophone you have.

But yeah, no, I was very familiar with this scene. And I also think it's really, I'm really excited to talk about how like this cultural exchange between Japan and America that like part of this movie is sort of based around. And I did a little research into like, how did jazz get to Japan? And I'm just like really excited to talk about all this stuff. But at the end of the day, it's a movie about girls making a jazz band and becoming the coolest people at their school. Like it is incredible, incredible.

And there's a token boy. It's swing girls and a boy, which he writes on a sign. Right. He's like, I demand to be perceived. I'm like, I guess. I guess. Why not? I guess. Yeah. Though by the end, the whole, the band name is just Swing Girl. So he does become a Swing Girl himself. I think you could say. Yeah. Yeah. Swing Boy erasure. You'd actually love to see it. But yeah, let's take a quick break and then we'll come back for the recap. Amy Robach and TJ Holmes here. Diddy's former protege, television personality, platinum selling artist, Denity King alum Aubrey O'Day,

joins us to provide a unique perspective on the trial that has captivated the attention of the nation. Aubrey O'Day is sitting next to us here. You are, as we sit here, right up the street from where the trial is taking place. Some people saw that you were going to be in New York, and they immediately started jumping to conclusions. So can you clear that up?

First of all, are you here to testify in the Diddy Trial? Aubrey will offer her opinions and expertise based on her firsthand knowledge from her days on making the band as she emerged as the breakout star. The truth of the situation would be opposite of the glitz and glamor. It wasn't all bad,

but I don't know that any of the good was real. I went through things there. Listen to Amy and TJ Presents, Aubrey O'Day covering the Diddy Trial on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Andrea Gunning, host of the podcast Betrayal. Police Lieutenant Joel Kern used his badge to fool everyone, most of all his wife Caroline. He texted, I've ruined our lives, you're going to want to divorce me. Caroline's husband was living another life behind the scenes. He

betrayed his oath to his family and to his community. She said you left bruises, pulled her hair, that type of thing. No. How far would Joel go to cover up what he'd done? You're unable to keep track of all your lies, and quite frankly, I question how many other women may bring forward allegations in the future. This season of betrayal investigates one officer's decades of deception, lies that left those closest to him questioning everything they thought they knew. Listen to Betrayal on the iHeart radio app,

Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Have you ever thought about going voiceover? I'm Hope Woodard, a comedian, creator, and seeker of male validation. To most people, I'm the girl behind VoiceOver, the movement that exploded in 2024. VoiceOver is about understanding yourself outside of sex and relationships. It's more than personal. It's political, it's societal, and at times, it's far from what I originally

intended it to be. These days, I'm interested in expanding what it means to be voiceover, to make it customizable for anyone who feels the need to explore their relationship to relationships. I'm talking to a lot of people who will help us think about how we love each other. It's a very, very normal experience to have times where a relationship is prioritizing other parts of that relationship that are being naked together. How we love our family. I've spent a lifetime trying to get my mother to love me, but the price is too high.

And how we love ourselves. Singleness is not a waiting room. You are actually at the party right now. Let me hear it. Just listen to voiceover on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. She was a decorated veteran, a Marine who saved her comrades, a hero. She was stoic, modest, tough, someone who inspired people. Everyone thought they knew her, until they didn't.

I remember sitting on her couch and asking her, is this real? Is this real? Is this real? Is this real? I just couldn't wrap my head around what kind of person would do that to another person that was getting treatment, that was dying. This is a story all about trust and about a woman named Sarah Kavanaugh. I've always been told I'm a really good listener, right?

And I maximized that while I was lying. Listen to Deep Cover, The Truth About Sarah on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And we're back. Okay. What happens in Swing Girls? I can't wait to watch this movie again. I know.

Sorry, Lola. Yes. Okay, so we open on a group of high school girls taking a summer makeup math class. Among these students are Tomoko, Yoshi, and Naomi. Although I don't think they're friends yet, Among these students are Tomoko, Yoshi, and Naomi. Although I don't think they're friends yet, they just all happen to be in class together. Yeah, it's kind of breakfast club vibes at the beginning.

Yeah, yeah. None of them are thrilled to be there, including their teacher, Mr. Ozawa. Tomoko, who's like daydreaming and staring out the window, sees the school brass band load onto a bus and she realizes they leave without their lunches. So Tamako convinces Mr. Ozawa to let her and the other girls in the class blow off school and take the lunches to the band who are playing at another school during a baseball game. One of the members of the brass band is Takuo who is a teen boy who plays the cymbals and

he seems to be considering quitting the band. He has like a note that he's ready to give to the band leader. So Tomoko, Yoshi and Naomi and the other girls hop on a train to head to the other school. They eat one of the lunches along the way. They fall asleep so they miss their stop, which means they have to get off at a different stop and walk, which means they're out in the heat with all of this food. They're like spilling some of the food on the ground and then like gathering it back up and putting it back in like the bento box.

It is shocking that by the time the food gets to the band that it's basically intact. Right. But I am headcanon convinced that it is very much the girls dropping the food onto the ground that got the band sick. So what happens is they finally arrive at the other school and pass out the lunches. Tako ends up not receiving a lunch because they're short one because they ate one of

the lunches on the way. Oh my god and then the greatest slow zoom in all of cinematic history Oh my God. And then the greatest slow zoom in all of cinematic history, where, you know, like everyone is lying about it. And then there's which character is there's a slow zoom into the side of her mouth where there's a single grain of rice. Yeah. And that being the initiation for their relationship is so delightful. And he doesn't say anything. He just notices and keeps it going. Yeah. He's not a narc. He's not a narc, but I do think he takes it out on them over like that.

That lost lunch. There were consequences for Tomoko. Right. But because he doesn't eat one of the lunches, it means that he and he alone avoids getting sick because everyone else in the brass band ends up in the hospital with food poisoning. Which means the school is looking for a substitute band and the girls in the makeup summer class are made to join the band and like be the substitutes as like punishment for ruining the lunches.

Which does that mean that their teacher just like is chilling? Like is he just no longer teaching a class? Yeah basically I think there were other students in the class so it's not just that but like it's like basically that whole group of girls and they were definitely also like you know doing it to get out of taking class right but for sure basically they could be excused, like to get a special excuse for for missing out on the class by doing this instead. Right. Yeah. Which is always what a primo. I was like always looking for that excuse. There was an algebra class I took in high school where I couldn't do well. And then the teacher was like, if you write book reports for books you're reading,

I'll give you 10 extra points on quizzes that you fail. I was like, okay, I'll do it. Yeah, the first, like the opening scene of the girls all clearly just like fucking around, not actually trying to play any instruments reminded me so much of when I was in junior high school because in my junior high school, you could have like a, you would have like what's called a talent class which was

like basically year one extracurricular so in I think eighth grade I switched to Latin because I'm a nerd huge surprise and the Latin class was clearly like the class that like half the kids were there just to fuck around and not actually study and it was very frustrating because the other half was like, no, but we actually are here to learn Latin because we're very serious about it. Everyone else is like, sawaytay omnees.

Wow. That's all I remember. That's, hello. I learned how to play Egyptian Ratscrew in Latin class. I don't think that was part of the curriculum. I know. I really, I took Latin in middle school and high school as well.

And I was like, I should have been forced to take a Spanish class. Like, all I know how to say to this day is stupid boy, fatuas puer, because that was the only time I used it. Yeah, I was just to yell at boys. Very important. In any case, we see these girls being made to join the band slash they're pretty willing to do it because, yeah, it gets them out of their math class. Also joining the band is this pretty shy, quiet girl named Kaori, as well as two punk girls who play bass and guitar,

Yuka and Hiromi, and they all get together and everything is chaos because the girls are all goofing around, most of them don't know how to play the instruments or how to read music, brass bands don't even have guitars and basses. And Takuo is like, hmm, well, maybe we're not a brass band. Maybe we're a jazz band. And I'll play piano. Because even though he sucks at cymbals, he's a good piano player. So the girls start learning their instruments instruments Tomoko on tenor saxophone

Yoshi on trumpet Naomi on drums and Kaori on trombone. Naomi on drums is so iconic. Yeah incredible 2004 wig on her by the way. Yes yes. Oh my gosh, the helmet wig like incredible. But there is nothing there is still nothing cooler in the world than a girl who drums. It's just a fact. So true. And then after a like training montage of them getting into shape because the girls have low lung capacity and they can't even blow into their instruments. So they're like running, they're blowing on tissues against a window,

they're sucking air out of bottles, like basically everything besides learning how to play their instruments. It's a very karate kid montage. Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Very much. Yeah, this movie is not afraid to get silly. It is so silly. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Very much. Yeah, this movie is not afraid to get silly.

It is so silly. Yeah. And the girls are frustrated at first, but soon they start improving at their instruments, but they also still suck pretty bad. And there's this baseball game coming up that they're supposed to play at. And for a while, it seems like the stakes of the movie are like, we have to help the baseball team win their game. But just then, the other band shows up, the ones who got food poisoning, and they're like, we're better now, we'll take back over. And the girls are like, fine by me. This was all just to get us out of doing that math class. So Tomoko,

Yoshi, Naomi, Kaori, and the others give their instruments back to the band and they leave. But it turns out they actually loved being in the band and they're very upset not to be playing anymore. There's a scene where they're all walking and sobbing and wailing. It's very funny. It's a lot, but it's so sweet where it's like, and that's so teenager too, to be like, I don't care. Who gives a shit? And the second you step out of the room, burst into a fucking fight. You're like, yeah, I did that a lot. Yes. These are the most realistically betrayed teenage girls ever. You're like, no, this sucks. I actually hated it.

And then they also go to the baseball game that they were supposed to play at, that the like, you know, the brass band is now playing at. And the whole thing is a flop. And then school starts back up again. The girls are still sad that they're not in the band. So Tomoko looks into buying a new saxophone, but they're very expensive. So she sells her computer and her little sister's gaming system so that she can use the money to buy a used saxophone at a pawn shop.

God. And then she goes to the other girls to encourage them to buy their own instruments. But no one really has any money to do that except for Takuo who has already bought his own keyboard. And there's comments about how like, ooh, good for you, you come from a rich family. I really like, we'll talk about like how class

is just like effortlessly sort of put into the plot of this. I mean, even though this movie does feel very 2000s, I feel like it avoids so many tropes that I associate with 2000s teen movies. Another one just like really small, but the fact that her kid sister acts like a kid sister where I feel like a lot of American like Sundance rom-coms had like Abigail Breslin giving a Shakespearean monologue about like the nature of love and it was always really weird

Yeah, I was like no this child has had their gaming system stolen. They're going to yell, I hate you. You know, like, yeah, yeah, make sense. Yeah. And we never see the sister again, but I'm sure she's going to feel like that kind of, you know, spite for the rest of her life. Because, oh, totally. Yeah. That's what sisters are supposed to do. Yes. So in order to earn money to buy instruments, the girls get a job at a grocery store, but they're goofing around too much. They're kissing mannequins in an elevator fun. They get fired after accidentally setting off the sprinklers. So Tomoko, Yoshi, Naomi, and Kaori and Takuo start

another job, which is gathering mushrooms on a mountain. Kat Kerlin In Adidas track suits. Karly Sivak Yeah. Kat Kerlin They're literally wearing like, oh my gosh, who's the Jane Lynch character in Glee? I didn't watch Glee. They're all wearing that outfit. Karly Sivak Yes, yes, yes. 100%. Coach Sue, is that it?

Sue Sylvester. Yes, Sue Sylvester. They're all rocking this Sue Sylvester before Sue Sylvester was. Yeah, it's true. So they're gathering mushrooms, but then they realize they're trespassing on private property, and so they run away.

But then a wild boar starts chasing them in one of the silliest scenes in the movie. And then they accidentally kill the boar via Naomi falling from a tree and landing on the boar's head. Oh my god. This, did either of you, I covered this on 16th Minute, and so immediately I was like, but the 30 to 50 wild hogs. Of course. Yeah, I immediately was like,

30 to 50 wild hogs, and here's one of them. I was like, wow, wild hogs, it's a problem nationally, like globally, I didn't realize wild hogs was a global issue. Yeah. That a 20 year old movie has a goofy high octane feral hog problem

Yeah, and because of them accidentally killing this wild hog The teens are considered heroes Because the the boar the the hog, whatever it is, had been ruining the local farmers' crops. Nicole Sorensen Amazing. Nicole Sorensen And so the teens are awarded money, which is what allows them to buy some used instruments. But the instruments they buy are pretty like wonky and damaged and falling apart. So they team up with the bass and guitar

players, Yuka and Hiromi, who take them to a junkyard where Yuka and Hiromi's ex-boyfriends slash former bandmates work. Picture this, you show up at the junkyard and two men who are weirdly obsessed with you and your friend Won't let you enter like bridge trolls until they recite their horrible poetry They really are behaving like it's bridge troll behavior that they're doing. Yeah. Yeah, they're like babe Why'd you break up with me? I still love you. And also the very 2000s plot point that they are pivoting from punk to bad folk music.

Absolutely. You're like, ooh, 2004. Yeah, yeah, because then they play them a song that these teen boys wrote, and then they finally fix the girls' instruments. Yeah. And then they like officially form their band called Swing Girls. Hey, that's the name of the movie. They play a few small gigs which are mostly just

like on the street in the neighborhood or outside of a grocery store. And they still suck and they play all out of rhythm and afterward Kaori talks to a mysterious man who tells them that they need swing they need to be more in rhythm with each other so scary so everyone chases after the man for more help and advice and he turns out to be their summer math teacher, Mr. Ozawa, who is a jazz aficionado. And the teens think that he knows how to play and that he can teach them. But his big secret is that he can't play at all. He's learning, but he's terrible. But he doesn't let them know this and he ends up being their conductor.

He kind of has I like wrote this down. I was like, this isn't quite right. But like, he does have like Redditor kind of energy. Right? Where like, he's really like, he's really interested. But he has no skill. Yeah, right. And he's really interested, but he has no skill. And he's kind of mean. And these are all qualities of Redditors. Passion, cruelty, inability to follow through. But he still inspires the group to think and play more like jazz musicians. Yes. And there's this fun little sequence where they're like clapping along to the music from like traffic signals and ping pong games and like people beating their laundry.

I love that sequence where all of a sudden jazz is everywhere. Like it's really beautiful. Yes. Yeah. So then they play outside the grocery store again. And this time they're good. And the dozen or so other girls from the summer class who had previously quit the band to go shopping and hang out with the baseball team and stuff. They see the Swing Girls play and they rush out to buy instruments so they can rejoin the band. Then we cut to winter time. The band learns about this student musical competition festival. And now it's going like kind of school

of rock vibes here. You're like, okay, it's kind of a battle of the band situation happening. Right. And to enter, they must submit a video audition tape. So they film themselves playing, which is followed by them having a snowball fight because these kids love goofing around. Yeah, they're kids. They're kids and the movie realizes that. Right.

I mean, and all of the best like teen or comedies for kids have that very simple ask of like kids that are actually acting like kids and making mistakes that make sense for kids and aren't like plotty or weirdly adult or whatever the fuck else. Mm-hmm. Yeah, Yoshi works on hitting a high note on her trumpet, which she's finally able to do because a rat crawls on her and she's like, ah! With her trumpet.

And then I immediately thought, okay, Remy the rat, rat timber, like we've talked about rodent so much on the show that I no longer flinch when a rodent is invoked. I was like, okay, roll that, get the camera out. This is a Pixar movie. Pixar movies are documentaries. Exactly. So that's happening.

Also, Taco finds out that Mr. Ozawa cannot play music, so their teacher quits being their conductor. He's ashamed and he's like, I'll step away. Then Tomoko receives word from the music festival that their band submitted their audition tape too late and all the spots are full. And Tomoko is too ashamed to tell anyone else. So the whole band gets ready for and heads to the festival thinking that they're going to play and they're on the train but that gets delayed due to bad weather and like a tree falling across the tracks. Various hijinks. Yes.

A lot of train related hijinks in this movie. Very true. But then the other band, the original brass band, the one who got food poisoning, rescues the Swing Girls and tells them that a spot opened up at the festival and lets them ride on their brass band bus. So the swing girls show up at the festival at the last minute. They're disheveled, they've forgotten their uniforms, their instruments are cold, they don't have a conductor, no one in the audience

is taking them seriously. but then they start playing and they're really good. And then Mr. Ozawa shows up and starts conducting them from like the back of the room. Our friends do various solos, the audience loves it. And that's the end of the movie. Yes. Oh, I love it. So good. So let's take a quick break and we'll come back to discuss. Amy Robach and TJ Holmes here. Diddy's former protege, television personality, platinum selling artist, Denity King alum,

Aubrey O'Day joins us to provide a unique perspective on the trial that has captivated the attention of the nation. Aubrey O'Day is sitting next to us here. You are, as we sit here, right up the street from where the trial is taking place. Some people saw that you were going to be in New York, and they immediately started jumping to conclusions. So can you clear that up? First of all, are you here to testify in the Ditty Trial? Aubrey will offer her opinions and expertise based on her first-hand knowledge. From her days on Making the Band as she emerged as the breakout star, the truth of the situation would be opposite of the glitz and glamour. It wasn't all bad, but I don't know that any of the good was real. I went through things there.

Listen to Amy and TJ Presents, Aubrey O'Day covering the Diddy Trial on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Andrea Gunning, host of the podcast Betrayal. Police Lieutenant Joel Kern used his badge to fool everyone. Most of all, his wife, Caroline. He texted, I've ruined our lives. You're going to want to divorce me.

Caroline's husband was living another life behind the scenes. He betrayed his oath to his family and to his community. She said you left bruises, pulled her hair, that type of thing. No. How far would Joel go to cover up what he'd done? You're unable to keep track of all your lies, and quite frankly, I question how many other women may bring forward allegations in the future. This season of betrayal investigates one officer's decades of deception.

Lies that left those closest to him questioning everything they thought they knew. Listen to Betrayal on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Have you ever thought about going voiceover? I'm Hope Woodard, a comedian, creator, and seeker of male validation. To most people, I'm the girl behind VoiceOver, the movement that exploded in 2024. VoiceOver is about understanding yourself outside of sex and relationships. It's more than personal.

It's political, it's societal, and at times, it's far from what I originally intended it to be. These days I'm interested in expanding what it means to be voiceover, to make it customizable for anyone who feels the need to explore their relationship to relationships. I'm talking to a lot of people who will help us think about how we love each other. It's a very, very normal experience to have times where a relationship is prioritizing other parts of that relationship that are being naked together. How we love our family. I've spent a lifetime trying to get my mother to love me, but the price is too high.

And how we love ourselves. Singleness is not a waiting room. You are actually at the party right now. Let me hear it. No. Listen to VoiceOver on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. She was a decorated veteran, a Marine who saved her comrades, a hero. She was stoic, modest, tough, someone who inspired people.

Everyone thought they knew her until they didn't. I remember sitting on her couch and asking her, is this real? Is this real? Is this real? Is this real? I just couldn't wrap my head around what kind of person would do that to another person that was getting treatment, that was, you know, dying. This is a story all about trust and about a woman named Sarah Kavanaugh. I've always been told I'm a really good listener, right?

And I maximized that while I was lying. Listen to Deep Cover, The Truth About Sarah on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. So I have a surprise for you guys. You pull out a Barry Sacks. Did you know that this movie can be connected to Shrek? No. Tell us everything.

Walk us through it. We're open. So Mr. Ozawa's actor actually is the dub voice actor for Puss in the Shrek movies. Whoa. That is great. And now that you've said it, I see it. It makes sense. That's so cool.

Yes. Wow. What a range. Yeah, yeah. He's like, I mean, a lot of the adults in this movie are like, they were big actors. They have been big actors since a lot of the teenagers, cause these are teens playing these teens. A lot of them, you know, they have careers on and off

whatever, but none of them have like super huge careers, etc. Okay. So like, you know, but that's like super, super common, honestly. But yeah, that yeah, as far as like the adults go, like his he's a huge actor. And that's one of his things. He doesn't do a lot of dubbing but yeah. Wow I'm also seeing that his other major dubbing role was Nick Fury in all of all of the Marvel movies. Wow. Yeah incredible. He's also in the Happiness of the Cata Currys, a movie that I have mentioned on the podcast before, a Cuckoo Bananas movie. Amy, have you ever seen it? I have not seen that particular movie. No, I never know how to describe it because partly I forget what it's about. And partly it's just so bananas.

When did you see it? I saw it in college. Okay. We'll put a pin in that. I'll try to find a log line and describe it, but it's a very wild movie. But anyway, he gives a great performance in Swing Girls. Yes. As do everyone.

I really appreciated that the two teacher characters, again, comparing this to School of Rock, which is my favorite movie ever, but a flawed movie that maybe disproportionately focuses on the teachers. And this movie, I think I was really pleasantly surprised at Ozawa's arc that he had an arc because he appears as like at the beginning as a very you know kind of stock character, the checked out teacher. And so giving him multiple beats of an arc of like oh there's more to this guy because he's a jazz aficionado. And also he sucks at it. And also he has this like small arc

that is mostly just communicated in the performance of like he finds that he does love teaching or we don't know, maybe he used to love it and then fell out of love with it, who knows. But I really like that. And I like that I also was expecting again, because I was just projecting other early 2000s movies onto the dynamics of this movie, that the other music teacher who does the brass band, Yayoi Itami, that she would end up being antagonistic, but instead she is extremely supportive

and is like, yeah, this is great, which actually makes way more logical sense than what we're used to seeing in American movies where it's like, there's two teachers and there can only be one, where it's like, if you know teachers, they're never not grateful to have a second person who is like working towards a common goal with them. And it just felt like they were in the movie the exact appropriate

amount and like that the girls were always at the center, which you don't see enough in this format. Totally. There's even like that little hint of like the romance that like Ozawa clearly likes her and like the only reason why there were all those big band records in the brass band room in the first place is because he was giving them to her all the time and she didn't even think about it.

And everyone else was like, okay, this is very obvious what's going on here. But none of the romances come to any fruition or anything because they're not the focus of the movie. Right, which kind of made me less bothered by their presence, where again, like in a movie that comes out in 2004, I kept waiting for like the romance between Tamako and Takuo to take a larger place in the plot. And it's referenced in, like, I think a very sweet authentic way but it never

becomes like I'm doing it for him right which is I feel like what you see a lot in like teen movies that I grew up watching again it's it's just nice being like oh music brought them together but even if it didn't they would still both love music. Yeah, yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah, no, I wrote that down too, as far as any like crushes or flirtations that were present in the movie, they never really come into any fruition or they're only hinted at,

and the focus is always the music and the friendships that develop, whether they be between or among the girls or the friendship between Tamako and Takua. Like, yeah, it's just, it's a focus on just like camaraderie in this activity that they're all doing. Yeah. And yeah, it's mostly girls in the band. You love to see it. There's nothing cooler.

There is the one boy who helps them. And I thought it was interesting that it's written in such a way, the movie, that the only boy is the one who has all this prior music experience and knowledge and he becomes the kind of de facto leader of this group of girls. And I was like, okay, well, why couldn't it have been another girl who takes them under her wing and leads them? Which I would have preferred. Yeah.

But. It's a small thing, yeah. Exactly, like in the large scale of how wonderful this movie is, you're like, okay, you know, it's a small thing. Yeah, exactly. Like in the large scale of how wonderful this movie is, you're like, okay, you know, it was 2004. Right. Another big, you know, when I saw this setup of the dynamic between like the popular girls who are richer, who have nicer clothes and who I think are like originally in the brass band. I also love just like so popular hot girls, of course, are in the brass band. I also love just like, so popular hot girls, of course are in the brass band.

I was like, this is not a trope I'm familiar with, but let's go with it. And they have, they're like dripped out in all the most 2004-ist fashion in the entire world. It's like very like my wall covered in J-14 stuff, but that instead of, because this is the same year as Mean Girls, instead of this really toxic dynamic, it starts that way.

And they do start by behaving, I think, kind of like more stock popular bullies. But then when they realize that what Swing Girls is doing is really cool, they're like, oh, we're gonna sell all of our like Louis Vuitton shit and join the band? Like you're just like, ugh. Yeah. That's great. Yeah, they're definitely like portrayed as like,

I don't know if I would say that they're necessarily popular girls. Like they seem to like, they have, you know, the modern sense of fashion, everything and- Yeah, I guess I just associate that with popularity. No, that's fair. I mean, and they probably are at least kind of, right? It's very clear that's when the girls do meet outside of the summer school, that there's definitely different dynamics going on and stuff. But for me, I think more than being portrayed as popular,

I think they're portrayed more as ditzy for the first part of the movie because like they're very quick to leave the band because like only the main group actually gets kicked out of the supermarket job just because you know they they're the ones that set off the sprinklers right and the other girls are like well but we like we're gonna keep working here we don't have to quit just because you guys got fired or whatever, which is like totally reasonable, you know, and they're clearly already using the money they're making. Now, it's a little absurd to think that a supermarket job as a teenager is going to get you all those designer goods, but that's another, you know, thing altogether. But still, like, they're just like, okay, we're still doing our thing. And, you know, that's why they give up on it. But of

course, they are inspired by the power of jazz. They, you know, they turn why they give up on it. But of course they are inspired by the power of jazz. They, you know, they turn around. But I think that it's, it is definitely interesting that, of course it makes sense. You're both comparing these two American teen movies. So like for me, it was a very different experience because I was comparing it more to what I already knew of Japanese media and my expectations of it.

So like, for example, a lot of media that especially is music centered, so like idol media etc, that is about a group of girls, it often doesn't have any boys in it, but also there's a big difference in terms of how this kind of media is marketed. So like this is definitely a teen movie for teens and you know probably primarily targeting teen girls but the fact is a lot of other stories that star teen girls aren't necessarily for teen girls and so they're going to be portrayed a bit differently so there's there is that kind of comparison so like for example we didn't talk about it in

the recap but there is like this one very short little scene this little kind of joke scene about I think think it is, yeah, Naomi getting like her skirt like breaking because, um, yes, like she, she is the fat character. So there is some fat phobia in this movie and that's kind of the main issue with it. Which honestly didn't even register for me because very toned down. Yeah. Right. I mean, I mean, maybe that's like my naivete, but it also, I mean, just brought me back to how rigid body typing was and is now, but in the 2000s specifically where I can think of other movies where that's the case too, where there's quote unquote the fat

character and it they're not fat. Yeah. Yes. Yes. Yes. But she is like the token. She is the quote unquote fat character in the movie. But yeah, so like there's a thing where her skirt breaks her skirt falls down. And so we see a boy who's biking nearby, like fall down a hill, humble because he sees her under just completely just wipes out and just keeps going and doesn't say anything. And we never actually see the underwear on screen but like other Japanese media would not have done that they would have shown us that panty shot if you will so I definitely for me like that was huge for me I'm like oh somebody gets it somebody figured out you can do this without being weird like because there is oh there is not a lot of media but there

is some media that does do this like I actually just recently I'm I'm in the middle of watching Magical Girl Show from the 80s, where like this is there's an episode where this is a major plot point and they show the underwear and it's like, you know, we don't need to see it. It's not that hard. Right. I remember talking about this in the Spirited Away episode. Yes. Oh, yes. It was not Spirited Away, I think, because you guys asked me about the Kiki delivery service. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yes, yes, yeah. Where a lot of those movies, and it's not sexualized, No. but it's like, why are we seeing all these shots of like little girls' underwear? It's a little jarring, yeah. Yeah, it's a weird thing, and yeah, a lot of the time it is not sexualized, but ends up getting sexualized by fans later on, which is the kind of main problem.

Right. So like, for example, with animation, you have the cells, right? Like the actual physical pieces of like paper or plastic that have the drawings on them. Those get, the ones with panties get sold for a lot more money because people are freaks. I hate to hear that. Yes, I know. I'm so sorry. But like, so yeah, so for me, watching this movie and seeing a scene like that,

it was like, okay, good. So somebody has figured out that this and it's like 20 years ago, we still, usually we don't have this problem these days. I it's, it's definitely been reduced. Thank goodness, but it still can be a problem depending on the target audience of the media in question and I'm trying to think of something else like there were like a small a lot of small things like that that were like Oh, yeah, if this in other Japanese media, it might be a little bit different. Oh the other big thing for me It's not necessarily like an important aspect, but I do believe it is Yoshi, right?

The trumpet player, like her thing with she has a crush on Mr. Ozawa and tries to make a move on him. And it's like very subtle. But like he very clearly immediately is like, no, right? And he's like, he's clearly not interested for one thing he is he likes someone else, obviously, but like, a worse movie or worse story would have something happen there so that like really stood out to me as well so like i was definitely seeing this in the grander scope of like a lot of other japanese media that has a lot of issues with their teen stories yeah i was pleasantly surprised that there was nothing

I was pleasantly surprised that there was nothing majorly problematic in this 2004 movie. Yeah. But we still see the girls are like, you know, they're still definitely like, you said they're horny girls, they're teens, they make out with the mannequins. It's still one of my favorite scenes. It's just peak comedy for me. It's so funny. Because you know, like, I don't know any teen girl who wouldn't have done that in that moment, right? Right.

That didn't feel like, oh, look how hot this is. It's like, it's silly. Right, yeah, exactly. Yeah, I guess I'm curious, I was back and forth about it because at the beginning, you don't really see a lot of like, I think this movie kind of starts as more of a slacker comedy and then becomes a different thing as it moves on. And you very rarely see slacker comedies that center girls.

Mm-hmm. Especially in American movies where slacker comedy is like it's 90% Seth Rogen. Sure. Or it was for a long time, right? And there's always kind of a slacker of the moment. And so at first I was like, okay, most of the girls towards the beginning

are being kind of portrayed as like lazy layabout kind of kids. But I do feel like there is a like outside of the brass band, which are like are more like weird, you know, dorky upstart kids that everyone of all genders are kind of portrayed that way. I don't know. I'm curious what you think about that. Yeah, yeah, I think, well, one thing I find really interesting is that there's clearly a kind of hierarchy where obviously our swing girls are somehow below the brass band, but the brass band is very clearly

below the baseball team, who are like the jocks, right? And so it's like, we see that dynamic play out. So like there's these different levels to it. But like, who knows if those the baseball team is actually cool or not, right? It's very interesting. And again, it's just like also just portrays like this is clearly like a kind of smaller town scenario. There's probably only one supermarket, honestly. And in general,

the different dynamics, again, with class and everything, the cost of things and everything, just super made sense for the... Honestly, not even a super... You don't have to actually be a super poor family for stuff like a PlayStation 2 to be expensive or whatever. I just love the detail of the computer is so funny because Tomoko is so, cannot be bothered to figure out how it works that she clearly drew all over it or whatever. Yeah, put stickers on it or something. Yeah.

And then her whole family is like, Tomoko, what the fuck? That was expensive! Yes, yes. But that's part of her arc where, to your point, Jamie, about like slacker comedies, I wrote down like visibility of girl mediocrity. Right, totally. Yeah. It's really refreshing to see because and they don't stay mediocre, they get good at their instruments, but it's only because they discover this passion they have for music, and they practice

and work really hard at it. And also it's connected to the fact that they are not being, like, ugh, I'm trying to think of a less weird word, but they're not being stimulated at school at all. Look at the summer program they're in with. And of course, thankfully, of course, you know, thankfully their teacher Azawa, like he ends up kind of waking up,

but it seems like so much of their slacker energy is like made out to be like a personal fault when it's like, well, there's a lot of reasons that could be happening, one of which is you're a kid. And like, it also doesn't seem like they're being given a very, any sort of meaningful outlet for their energy. And then the ones that, the outlets that exist, and this is true for kids everywhere,

a lot of the outlets that exist, there is a financial threshold and a barrier to entry, which this movie is not afraid of talking about, but is also not like, we're stopping the movie to talk about something very serious, which is like cool. Yes. And then again, for Tomoko, her arc is that she starts out by never finishing the things she starts.

Like she got the computer and I think maybe there's different other mentions of an activity that she started and that her parents spent money on and then they're resentful because she never followed through on it and they get on her case for never finishing anything so when she asks for money for a saxophone they're like no you're just gonna you know drop that after a few weeks also but this is actually something she follows through on. And I thought that was just a really, that's a very normal arc for a teen or a kid to go through where, you know, you don't know who you are yet. You don't know what you're interested in. You explore different things. And some of them you find out you don't like after all.

And unfortunately, that is expensive, but it's very normal. And I find out you don't like after all and unfortunately that is expensive but it's very normal and I feel like you don't even get to see that explored for characters who are women and girls because their arcs are so often like a romantic arc or some other thing that just like doesn't there's no interest in exploring like what's a pretty standard thing that a teen girl might go through. Oh, discovering, like trying to discover what your extracurricular interests are or your artistic pursuits. Because again, they're so often tied to some like romantic storyline and not that those are inherently bad. And I really like again, the way that the like flirtation between her and Takuo is represented because it's not, you know, there's a flirtation between them, but they don't like get together at the end and have some big cinematic

kiss. It's what we are always saying we want to see in movies where it's like that romantic interest is an element of her life. It is not the all consuming thing. Totally. I'm super corny with stuff like this, but just seeing them all become collectively excited in the second act of like, oh my God, music is awesome. Let's talk about it. Like I was like, oh, that's so nice. Yeah, we do actually have, I feel like because things like club activities are so important for teens. And I think part of why these girls at the beginning are slackers is because they haven't found that thing yet. Right. So like, when you're in a Japanese school clubs, they usually meet not like, for example, like once a week or whatever, it's usually like every day. Often you'll come to school on the weekends to do like one more thing or whatever. Like it's very, very invested. And also it's, it's a big thing because a lot of schools require that, like, okay, if do you want to be in this club, you have to have a certain level of grades.

Right. So like it's a, it's encouraged because kids finding that like interest will help them. And depending on the school, you can really do anything. I didn't get to go to a Japanese high school, but my spouse did, and they were in a bookkeeping club. Oh, incredible. Right. So you can find passions about whatever.

It's really interesting to see. And then, yeah, depending on how popular your club is, whatever that will affect, how much funding you can get and all of that. And it's one of those things like help kids prepare for adulthood or whatever, but hobbies, etc. are such a big thing that a lot of waves, and this movie is one of those of things that a bunch of teenagers in Japan get into, are often inspired by a piece of media, whether it be like whatever sport is popular at the time or what have you. And so like this obviously just helped like jazz blew up for teens because this made jazz cool. And yeah, so like in terms of the story, like these girls were

looking for something and also obviously Takuo was also trying to find something because he was clearly unhappy playing the cymbals kind of okay in the brass band because the hierarchy in the band in that band was such that he just was clearly like at the lowest rung as well. Yeah. So it's like yeah the joys of finding that thing that you become passionate about is that is a very common storyline in a lot of Japanese media featuring teens, I think. Nice. In the US it's what evil bet can a man can a can a teen boy.

We still have those two. Don't worry. We have a lot of we have all the all the same trash media. Yeah, for sure still exists in Japan. Don't worry but yeah just like there's a little bit more I think there are more variations on like different kinds of stories because teens are respected more as a target demographic in Japanese media in my personal opinion. Yeah I also was pleasantly surprised at the way that Takuo interacts with the other because he's like the sole boy among a large group of girls that keeps getting bigger throughout the movie. Yes, he's the he's the and a boy. Yes.

He's the token boy. And again, he's in this position of kind of, I guess, power, not that, you know, he's in a leadership position over them in the sense that he has this prior experience, he sort of wrangles them and like he's their coach when he's trying to get them into shape and stuff like that. But it's so rare to see a like singular boy or teenage boy or man surrounded by a group of women or you know people of marginalized genders. And if you do see that you would generally see at least Western media, the man or the boy feeling super emasculated by being surrounded by so much feminine energy and that he would be degrading and or condescending

to them. Which he can be condescending to them. He is a little bit here and there. When he's like, you guys can't even breathe right? Like, he can be kind of condescending. Yeah. He was definitely, he was very mean at the beginning for sure. Right. Yeah. But he was also like very much thrown into that leadership role by the food poisoning incident. And it was those girls' fault. So I could understand him having a little animosity in that moment. I agree. I think we have the proper context for it and the fact that like as time goes on and the girls become more and more invested in Swing Girls when he tries to buy.

I mean, there's like that great scene that I feel like you get that like sort of juiciest class commentary of the movie where, you know, it's like the conversation about buying instruments second hand and Takuo is talking about like, well, why don't you just get second hand? It's not that hard. And they're like, oh, cool. With what money? With what money? With what money? And like, so they'd also like the girls never hesitate to push back once they feel confident that like this is something we are committing to. And like it's one thing to talk down to us when we don't give a shit, but now we do and like shut up. And he does and he like takes that feedback, which I don't know. It's like it works. Yeah. And in an act of solidarity, he goes mushroom picking with them, even though he doesn't need to buy a new instrument, he already has one.

But he gets it his Sue Sylvester suit, right along with the rest of them. Yeah. And it's, you know, this is a little thing, but it's not like he has to save them from the hog. You know, he's being chased along with them. So I feel a lesser movie would have him be the one who defeats the wild animal because he's the man and they're the girls who need to be protected. But nothing like that.

It's such a funny twist to. Yeah, it's so good. Yes. I want to just really quickly and I am I've done very, very cursory research on this. So if people listening and if people on the call know more than me, please speak up. But I was really interested, where like 2004 in my mind, and then I like went back to sort of cross verify this, was I feel like a huge moment in the US for appropriating Japanese culture.

Like this is the year of Gwen Stefani Harajuku Girls. Like, so I thought it was interesting. I was like, okay, so here is not the inverse of this because it is nowhere near, you know, the same thing, but a Japanese movie about a group of Japanese teenage girls getting really excited and into this black American art form. And I was interested into like how, like what Japan's relationship with jazz is.

I got a little bit of information. I just wanted to share it. If people know more, please let me know more. And I'm pulling this from Scholarly Journal Wikipedia, but the two papers that this has been built off of are Jazz journeys to Japan the heart within by William Minor and blue nippon Authenticating jazz in Japan by Taylor Atkins

So just for some fun context, I guess we're not actually not fun context but context nonetheless is that Jazz came to Japan but context nonetheless, is that jazz came to Japan mostly through like trans-pacific ocean liners, often from American occupying forces, but also from Filipino artists who were then occupied by America. So it's like a story we're very familiar with where this art form is proliferating because of colonialism, essentially. But once jazz gets to Japan in the 1910s, it becomes very popular. It is banned in the 1940s, but it doesn't work really, because at that point there is a whole sort of culture around Japanese jazz. And to be fair, a lot of things were getting banned in the 1940s in Japan. So. Right. And not for no reason.

But I did think it's interesting that like this specifically Black American art form has such wide reach and is, I think, like so lovingly held in this movie that comes out in 2004, held in this movie that comes out in 2004, where in America, we are absolutely decimating Japanese culture and whitewashing it like it's no one's business. But yeah, I would like to learn sort of more about that story because obviously it's a very complicated one. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I haven haven't read those works I can't speak directly to it myself but certainly like in general I mean even now jazz is definitely more associated with older people anyway but sure I think from my experience it's been um always like I guess one

of the things about this movie is they do name drop some, you know, like big people of jazz and all of that. But I find that like, they don't really like show them so much. So you could, I'm imagining like as a Japanese viewer, end up not really learning about jazz history from this movie, which you know, it doesn't, it's not that kind of movie. So that's kind of fine. Right. But I do think that it is important to acknowledge that there is like the kind of default of foreigners even today is still like white people, especially white Americans. So, you know, there could be a way to incorporate things. And like one thing about this movie, and like, honestly, it's, you could do this conversation with like all kinds of Japanese media, but like the issue of the lack of diversity in Japanese media, there is this prevailing myth that Japan is like an almost an ethno state level of like being extremely one race, like even Japanese

people as a whole are not just one people, right? We have indigenous groups, we have, you know, just like we stem from different ethnic groups, etc. But groups, we have, you know, just like we stem from different ethnic groups, etc. But also, like, we have a ton of foreigners, but we don't have the data for that because of how the Japanese system works. So, like, if you want to become a Japanese citizen in Japan, you actually have to change your name to a Japanese one. So that, like, system just in that way like erases people who are not ethnically Japanese who become Japanese in nationality and stuff like that. So like we do have a ton of people from like all over and we have of course you know mixed race folks such as myself and we have people who are for

example Black and Japanese. So it could have been and it would have been appropriate at the time to have like one of these kids maybe be mixed race or, you know, have a have like just even like a little bit of something when you have such a big group of girls. One of the things about the 2000s is that while it wasn't about jazz music being super huge, but like we had one of the biggest pop stars in Japan at that time was a black and ethnically Korean Japanese woman named Crystal K who she's, you know, she's still doing music now. But like, the people are there, right? Like it's, it's not hard to find, you know, the people to, to help create the kind of diverse cast you might need. Because yeah, that that that is one thing that is a little lacking here. But like, it's also like not necessarily the movie that would like focus on that. It's just like a small kind of possible grave, but it's like not exclusive to this movie. It's like a general Japanese media problem. For sure. And similarly, again, there

aren't these hugely pervasive romantic storylines that are sweeping across the movie and drawing all the focus away from the band. But there are these little romances and flirtations here and there, but they're all hetero. Yes. And I'm not surprised because in 2004, at least the media that I'm most familiar with, which is, you know, Western, mostly American media, there was a huge reluctance to portray queer characters explicitly, or maybe there was a small hint, or if they were, it was coded.

It was coded, or they were the butt of a joke. So, you know, I'm not surprised by that lack of representation in this movie from 2004. But, you know, it's something worth noting for sure. But I guess just getting back to the strengths of this movie is it's I feel like a lot of movies say they're focused on friendship among teen girls, but then it actually isn't. It's like I think think I, again, I'm like compulsive in comparing this to American movies, but John Tucker Must Die is a great example of that, where it's like, these group of girls like become friends

through this hatred of this guy, but it really is just a redemption arc for the guy. You're just like, ah, fuck. This movie actually delivers on the promise of the thrust of this movie is about teen girls forming a jazz band. That is what the movie promises, and that is what happens, and it makes you cry,

and they play Benny Goodman at the end, and then it ends on Nat King Cole. You're just like, it's the good shit. It's the good shit. It's like the feel goodiest movie that never feels like trite or forced. I love that I've gotten you to say thrust now, Jamie. I know you've really rubbed off on me.

Rubbed off, okay. Yes, you've thrust it off on me. Things are getting horny in the zoom call. I do kind of wish we got a little bit more specific about some of the friendships like if we kind of honed in on a couple of them yeah I agree yeah and and saw them connecting a bit more maybe about something other than music or just saw them kind of interacting in a more kind of intimate way. Or saw that, I mean, and we really only, and again, this is like getting nitpicky

because they weren't really thoughts I was having on my first viewing. The first viewing, I was just like, woo, wee. Yeah. But Tomoko is the only character who we get insight into her home life. Like I think that there is room to get, like if we really wanna have,

these are our three main girlies, I feel like we do need an insight to their home life or their life outside of the band and that doesn't quite happen in this movie. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Like it's a general friendship movie with girls, but we don't get a lot of one-on-one interpersonal stuff, for sure.

Yeah, I would love to see just, I mean, in general, more Yoshi and Naomi, especially Naomi, because she's my fave. But, you know, again, I'm like grading this on a curve on the 2004 curve, like really top marks all around. Right. Yes. And the fact that I had to check, but they end up forming like they have a 17 piece full band. Like they did the damn thing.

Imagine coordinating 17 teenagers to do something. Like, I cannot imagine. And Anna didn't feel, again, like there was this like inherently capitalist message that was running through it too, because I feel like sometimes when you see young people find their passion, it's like, and then they won the trophy, or they got the thing. And it's like they harness their love and passion in order to sort of achieve this capitalist goal. School of Rock also famously gets around this because they lose the battle of the band. They do not win. Yeah, we don't know like it's I wouldn't say this is like a battle of the bands per se. It's more

like a recital situation. I don't think there's like an actual competition here, right? But we still don't know like what the result we the ending is the performance and I think that's really good. It's perfect. Certainly there are other stories that would do would get to what's happens next right but like yeah I think that's honestly also really common. There's like the stories of teens doing their best is definitely a huge segment of Japanese media for teens. So I think that it makes sense that that was kind of the main focus of like, and maybe not necessarily like, it's basically they hear a bunch of obstacles, and here's how they get overcome them to meet the final goal of just the basic thing of like,

performing and performing well, clearly, because like definitely it's very effective because the way that we see their progress and like see them practicing they don't necessarily always sound great and that's also because these kids were really learning how to play these instruments right and then the final performance is like wow i didn't know they got this good and it's very very satisfying oh i know yeah does anyone have anything else they'd like to talk about? Oh, there's one thing. So the what's it called? The repair guys, the the ex boyfriend folk group. So right, the scene is definitely P comedy because like the way that they they definitely overemphasize the way they speak, but it's basically the Japanese equivalent of

speaking like, they're in Dude, Where's My Car? or something like that. But the thing about that, that I didn't really notice, I think the first few times I watched, but preparing for this episode, I realized we don't know how old these guys are, and I think they might be adults, like young adults, but adults. Yeah, so like it's because they're they're working and have like more or less a more proper job than the like what we usually see teenagers have. Right. But we see like we don't know exactly how old the teen girls are supposed to be like they're in high school, but we don't know exactly what year. Right. And certainly like typically the way the Japanese system works if once you start, your what would be your equivalent of senior year of high school, you're typically already 18.

But yeah, that was just like something that like, kind of set out to me a little bit of like, well, these girls in this band, that, you know, guitarist and bassist, like we don't know exactly how old they are. And they were in this band with these two guys who are, like, secretly losers, but they want to be so cool. Right. And it's very funny. But like guys who are like secretly losers, but they want to be so cool. Right. And it's very funny. But like, yeah, like in hindsight, I was like, what was happening here? Like, yeah, I didn't even consider that because I just kind of assumed that they were also in high school. But now that I think about it, I'm like, yep. Yeah, I guess we don't explicitly know. Yeah, teen boys don't usually learn how to use welding tools and stuff like that.

So, you know. Right. Unless there was a great shop class at this school. Highly doubt. Yeah. But we don't ever see them at school. No, that's for sure. So, yeah, now that you say it, that could be potentially an upsetting situation. Yeah, yeah. Though the whole scenario, it's always shown that, like, clearly, the girls are the ones like in power.

They're the ones that like they dumped these guys, right? They're the ones that left the band, et cetera. And these guys are like groveling at their feet, basically. But like, yeah, it's definitely so it's a little bit of a weird situation for sure. But it's just like something like hmm This is like the small thing that like I think they probably wouldn't have realized as opposed to for example with you know The crush on on mr. Ozawa that like it's like that's very clear like wrong and is shown that way, right? The shown is like to not be you know something to yeah to move forward with but with this one

It's just like oh maybe like it could have been a situation like maybe they were all in high school when they started the band or something like that right we don't know sure right so there could there could be ways for it to be like okay or whatever and and i think that even now like honestly there would be people who wouldn't necessarily like blink at the idea of like someone who's like young and like of college age like dating someone in high school whatever like if it's only a few years. That's kind of understandable, but also just, yeah, again, we don't know the situation at all. It's not clear in the story.

It's not clear. Yeah. I found those characters to be, the one-off jokes are funny, but again, I just was like, I'm not familiar with this stock character because I am familiar with the like, take me back. But then I was surprised that they actually did help them. Mm-hmm, right I was expecting them to be like malevolent and be like no you have to be my girlfriend again

But then they do help them. Yeah, but then at the end they're like, but take me back. I was like, all right I don't know right. They're still there. They're at the Music festival. Yeah wizard like banner that says like, take me back. Yeah. I love you. Yeah. Like it's actually it's very sweet how like everyone is there. Even the supermarket people that fired them are in the audience. It's very silly. Yeah. Yeah. Was was there anything else? I love this movie. I'm so excited that I have it in my life now. Yes, yes. With all the nitpicking that we've been doing, it's still like such a good movie. It's yeah. Yeah. And as we've discussed, holds up far better than most media from 2004. It's not

perfect. Absolutely. But especially media centering teens where a lot of stuff usually goes really wrong from this era. But yeah, there's not a whole lot to complain about. Every movie has its flaws, but if you haven't seen this movie, you're going to be in such a good mood. I'm excited for you.

Yes. And Amy, thank you so much for bringing this movie to us because yeah, like we didn't know it existed and now it's going to be, you know, fully in the rotation. Of course. And it passes the Bechtel test very handily. Boy, how he does it. So much talk about jazz, about trumpets,

et cetera. About computers that you're not using enough. I think truly if they had just changed Takua's character to be like a cool older teen girl, it would be the perfect film. We didn't bring it up yet, but that movie that we covered a while back, We Are the Best, that Swedish film about the tweens who start a punk band in the 80s. Great double feature. And then top it off, if you want a triple threat, top it off with some Josie and the Pussycats. Oh my god, yes.

And then if you need a palate cleanser, throw in Spice World. Incredible, yes. And then if you need a palette cleanser, throw in Spice World. And then School of Rock and then Full Monty and then by that point you're asleep. That's too many movies to watch in a row. I would say the Bechdel test is definitely for me like a such a Western test that doesn't necessarily always work with Japanese media because again like there's so much Japanese media that not only like there are shows that have no male characters in them but the target audience is men and so like talking about like what is and isn't feminist media is like so different in Japan like a lot of like Japanese feminism like discussions and stuff are

different in a way that I can't get into on a podcast like this, but not for one episode anyway. But like, yeah, like you could have shows that like, like this movie is great, barely even passes the reverse spectral test because I think the only characters that talk to each other that are guys are Tako and Mr. Ozawa. But there are other shows and movies and so on that are like definitely more for the male gaze and only feature women. So like, well, okay, sure, it passes the Bechdel test, but it's also still like very not good. I mean, that's true of a lot of movies we cover too.

Like I think it's ultimately a flawed metric. And we recently covered a couple movies about the prison industrial complex that feature predominantly men such as holes and Shawshank Redemption. And even though there are hardly women on screen, especially in Shawshank Redemption, I mean they still generated very interesting conversations. And it's not like, as we always say, the Bechtel test is a jumping off point. Sometimes it doesn't apply or doesn't mean that a movie isn't exploring intersectional themes

or issues. For sure, yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's just a jumping off point. Yeah, Holes is definitely an interesting one, for sure, in that regard. Yeah, yeah. I mean, it's just like, it's not always going to be an applicable test because it wasn't designed to be. So, totally. So, you know, what

was though our nipple scale? Yes. The Bechtelcast nipple scale where we rate the movie zero to five nipples based on examining it through an intersectional feminist lens. And this one gets pretty high marks from me. I'll give it like a four. You know we talked about the various things that pinged ever so slightly for us but you know nothing too major. I love that it is a focus on teen girls discovering something they're passionate about and Forming like camaraderie and community around that there's no like Unnecessary petty infighting among the girls. I feel like a lot of like a lesser

Movie would also be like well, there's a bunch of teenage girls together. So obviously they're gonna be so petty Well, that's what I thought was gonna happen with the Louis Vuitton girls basically. They would become enemies but they instead join forces and then have a full band and you're like they so quickly change their mind. They're literally like oh got it. They like show up they see the the swing girls like when it's the whatever five or six of them playing. They say, oh, my God, this is so cool. I want to be a part of this. They run to the instrument store.

They buy instruments and they come back while the swing girls are still playing. So it's been a matter of minutes. Violent. They do it so quickly. They're so enthusiastic about rejoining the band. So, yeah, I love that. And it's not as though there's not like moments of tension among them where they'll get, you know, maybe frustrated with another person or impatient or whatever. But it's never out of like pettiness. It's always contextualized and it's always fleeting. And it's just such a fun movie. I love the absurdist, silly, goofy moments.

And again, I love that you see teen girls being bad at something at first. I love that you see them diligently working at it and becoming better at something. I love that you see them being goofy and silly and kissing mannequins and throwing snowballs and all the goofy stuff that they do It's just such a refreshing fun movie. It's super fun. Yeah, it's available on YouTube It's also on Internet Archive, but I couldn't figure out how to turn the subtitles on so same same Yeah, but yeah If you if you don't know Japanese and if any listeners want to watch it with English subtitles You can easily do that on YouTube. So highly recommend Four Nipples and I'll distribute them among

the swing girls. I'm gonna meet you there. Yeah, I feel like we've talked through, you know, the places where this movie has like room to improve But I think, again, for using a 2004 yardstick, it's pretty fucking incredible. Honestly, I would give it, like, adjusted for 2004 inflation, I'd maybe even give it a five nipples, but yeah. While there are valid criticisms of Swing Girls, it is hard to be too mad about most of them based on what a fun watch it is and how like again it's like 20 years later and a

movie with this kind of joy and centering on teen girls is still very rare and especially like teen girls that you might actually meet in the world and not teen girls that you know and I love the world and not teen girls that you know And I love a Diablo Cody movie, but that but teen girls don't talk like that, you know So it just still feels like a very rare thing to this day I just I love comedies about teen girls being passionate about something So I'm gonna give it four nipples and I am giving them all to Naomi. She's my favorite She can have her two and then you know, do whatever she would maybe two for the drums. I don't know. Oh sure.

I don't know. She's my favorite character. Amy how about you? Yeah I think for me like you know because again because it's 2004 because it's a Japanese movie from 2004. I just love so much about this movie and like yeah all the little like nitpicking flaws etc are like the same flaws that are in like basically everything else at that time. Exactly yeah. So yeah I actually would say for me this is a 4.5. Hell yeah. Yeah just like everything is it just like so refreshing such a standout film I could watch over and over. I don't know

I have no idea who translated the movie on YouTube because it's not an official translation but they did a pretty stellar job that has made it more accessible to everyone around the world and I'm so glad for that because it is a movie that definitely more people should know about. And yeah, I just think it's just such's just like such a such an incredibly good time and still holds up even though it's still very 2004. The technology stuff, etc. Like I tried to imagine, you know, it's reboots and stuff. We have the same thing here that you know, it happens from time to time. And it's like, could they do it now? How would it look different if they did the same

thing? Would they just set it in 2004 again? There's so many questions, but yeah, I just think that it's just a special thing that like I'm so glad exists. I'm so glad it was, you know, such an acclaimed movie and an awarded and nominated movie here in Japan and everything, even though, yeah, like the only teenager in my life that I've talked to recently has no idea what this is. She was just like, oh, that's from before I was born. And I'm like, why did you say that? Yeah, but you know, that's, I just think it's just the nature of like, tea in the media in Japan

is it just comes and goes. So yeah, yeah, 4.5 for me. Well, thank you so much for joining us. And tell us Where people can follow you on social media check out your work and tell us about your new upcoming podcast. Yeah, of course so Basically on most socials. I'm at IU. She knows personally that's a Y you Shek no WS and the podcast I have been doing for the past five years, Sparkle Side Chats, is all about magical girls.

And we are going to be talking about magical girl friendship squad later this year. I'm very excited about that. Oh my gosh. Finally. Wow. Do I want to know? Oh my gosh. People were so mean to that show online.

Oh, there's the discourse is very interesting. But anyway, yes. online. Oh there's the the discourse is very interesting um but anyway yeah so so magical girls yes we're probably never going to stop talking about them etc i mean god with all the shows coming out right now i'm like overwhelmed but yes if you like magical girls even if you have never watched a magical girl show in your life it's still a good fun time over there there's something for everyone for sure in that genre. And yes, on the socials you can find that at magical girl IU or AYU. And as for my new podcast, I'm co-hosting with my friends Erin and Leon is called Charm Point Radio and it's all about

idol media. So, you know, basically the Japanese pop star though we are going to try to cover other stuff from, you know, around the world is just primarily Japanese. And, though we are going to try to cover other stuff from around the world, is just primarily Japanese. And we're going to the history of where the term idol got brought into Japanese, because that's from a French movie of all things. And just looking at all kinds of variations of this genre, TV shows for kids, TV shows for adults, and all of that jazz. All that jazz? Yeah. Well, sometimes jazz. I'm hoping we haven't covered. All that jazz? Yeah, well, sometimes jazz. I'm hoping we haven't covered all that swing.

All the, you know, it is typically going to be like, you know, your pop music, et cetera. But the storylines are often very similar. But even with that formula, there are so many variations and it's just such a fun time. So we go through all kinds of weird things. Sometimes you get into stuff about horses and Sports and whatever this there's so many things in the idol genre as well So I'm really excited for that We don't have the official date of release yet But it should be coming out by the time you hear this because it'll be sometime in early June that we launch

But we already have social media links up everywhere so find us at Charmpoint Radio. Amazing and thank you again for joining us come back anytime. Yes I would love to. And you can follow us mostly on Instagram as well as our Patreon aka Matrion where you get two bonus episodes a month surrounding a brilliant theme. This month has been about men in prison. So but also also it must it needs to be said it is your birthday month and you chose this for yourself and it's because I believe that men belong in prison. No, but we did Shawshank and Oh Brother were art thou on the matriot and then Holes was my big birthday episode on the main feed of course.

Anyway check out all of that on patreon.com slash Bechtelcast. You also get access to our entire back catalog of matriot episodes as well. And with that, ooh, okay. Final question of the pod. What instrument are you picking up in Swing Girls? You have been invited. You've been summoned to be a swing girl. What are you playing? Ooh, I'm gonna play the guitar like Hiromi.

Nice, nice. I'm afraid my only instrument is piano, so I might have to stick with that. Okay, respect. But does that make me the anda boy is the question. No, no, you're reinventing the narrative. Jamie, I'm going Barry Saks, I'm reclaiming it. Whoa, it can't hurt me anymore.

Jamie, you're, you're healed. I'm Barry S' sex god now. Yes. Who's Barry Sachs' sex god now? Wow, okay, bye. All right, bye guys. The Bechtel cast is a production of iHeart Media, hosted by Caitlin Durante and Jamie Loftus, produced by Sophie Lichterman, edited by Mo Laborde.

Our theme song was composed by Mike Kaplan with vocals by Catherine Voskrasensky. Our logo and merch is designed by Jamie Loftus and a special thanks to Aristotle Acevedo. For more information about the podcast, please visit linktree.bechtelcast. Amy Robach and TJ Holmes here. Diddy's former protege, television personality,

Denity King alum Aubrey O'Day joins us to provide a unique perspective on the trial that has captivated the attention of the nation. It wasn't all bad, but I don't know that any of the good was real. I went through things there. Listen to Amy and TJ presents Aubrey O'Day, covering the Diddy Trial on the iHeart Radio app, Apple

Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Andrea Gunning, host of the podcast Betrayal. Police Lieutenant Joel Kern used his badge to fool everyone. Most of all, his wife, Caroline. He texted, I've ruined our lives. You're going to want to divorce me. How far would he go to cover up what he'd done? The fact that you lied is absolutely horrific.

And quite frankly, I question how many other women are out there that may bring forward allegations in the future. Listen to Betrayal on the iHeart radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Have you ever thought about going voiceover? I'm Hope Woodard, a comedian, creator, and seeker of male validation. I'm also the girl behind voiceover, the movement that exploded in 2024. voiceover, the movement that exploded in 2024. You might hear that term and think it's about celibacy, but to me, voiceover is about understanding yourself

outside of sex and relationships. It's flexible, it's customizable, and it's a personal process. Singleness is not a waiting room. You are actually at the party right now. Let me hear it. No. Listen to voiceover on the iHeartRadio app,

Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I've seen a lot of stuff over 30 years, you know, some very despicable crime and things that are kind of tough to wrap your head around. And this ranks right up there in the pantheon of Rhode Island fraudsters. I've always been told I'm a really good listener, right? And I maximized that while I was lying.

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