The Bechdel Cast - The Breakfast Club

Episode Date: February 28, 2019

On this live episode recorded at San Francisco Sketchfest, Caitlin and Jamie discuss The Breakfast Club and hereby sentence the movie to Saturday detention.(This episode contains spoilers)For Bechdel bonuses, sign up for our Patreon at patreon.com/bechdelcast.Follow us on Twitter @BechdelCast, @caitlindurante and @jamieloftusHELP Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Daphne Caruana Galizia was a Maltese investigative journalist who on October 16th 2017 was assassinated. Crooks Everywhere unearthed the plot to murder a one-woman WikiLeaks. She exposed the culture of crime and corruption that were turning her beloved country into a mafia state. Listen to Crooks Everywhere on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, you're just starting your career. That's where we come in. Think of us as your work besties you can turn to for advice. And if we don't know the answer, we bring in people who do, like negotiation expert Maury Tahiripour. If you start thinking about negotiations as just a conversation, then I think it sort of eases us a little bit. Listen to Let's Talk Offline on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, everybody. This is Matt Rogers. And Bowen Yang. We've got some exciting news for you.

You know we're always bringing you the best guests, right? Well, this week we're taking it to the next level. The one, the only, Katherine Hahn is joining us on Lost Culture East. That's right. The queen of comedy herself. Get ready for a conversation that's as hilarious as it is insightful. Tune in for all the laughs, the stories,

and of course, the culture. Don't miss Katherine Hahn on Las Culturistas. Listen to Las Culturistas on Will Ferrell's Big Money Players Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Oh, hi. Hi, everybody. It's us. It's us. We're just here to let you know that you'll be listening to our Breakfast Club episode, which you do know.

But what you may not know is that this episode was recorded live last month in San Francisco. Ever heard of San Francisco? I have. We were there for like a whole 12 hours. Yes, we were. Yeah, we just wanted to say hello. We wanted to let you know if you live in the Los Angeles area, we have a live crossover show coming up in march

with the daily zeitgeist that's right it is on march 9th it is at dynasty typewriter and we will be there with jack and miles of the daily zeitgeist and we're going to be talking The news, the trends, the movies. The moments of 1999. So if you live in the area, definitely roll the fuck through. We would love to meet you and hang. And, you know, we don't like to make it a habit to be on stage with men. But what did you think I was going to say? With friends? I thought you were just going to say on stage

in general and I was like we do live shows all the time. No, no, no. We don't like to be seen with men very often but you know we're making an exception one night only and we'd love to see you there. Yes, so get tickets at Bechdelcast.com and then click on live appearances

and we'll see you there. Enjoy the live show on the breakfast club on the beckdel cast the questions asked if movies have women in them are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands or do they have individualism the patriarchy's effing Start changing it with the Bechdel cast Hi, San Francisco! How's it going? What's up? You went all out. You said the name of the city and everything. Hi, I'm Caitlin.

I'm Jamie. And we're the Bechdel cast. Thanks for coming. Thanks for coming. We are indeed in San Francisco. It is rainy. It is 5.30 p.m. We are shocked and thrilled you're here. Thank you for being here. Thank you.

Clap if you've heard the Bechtel cast before. Okay. And not to put anyone on blast, there's no wrong answer. But obviously there is, based on what you just heard. But clap if you haven't heard our show before. Okay. Are you here with friends? Did friends drag you along?

Yeah. Okay. Yes. We'll put on the best possible show. We'll do our best. We'll do our best. As usual, that is all we can guarantee. So if you haven't listened before, the Bechdel cast is a podcast where Caitlin and I, for 500 years now,

have been analyzing the role and treatment of women and female characters in famous movies. That's right. And we use the Bechdel test as a jumping off point. It's a media test that requires that two female identifying characters with names speak to each other in the movie that they're in

for at least a two line exchange and they cannot talk about men. No. Boo. Hard. Hard.

Yeah. Let's see if we can do it. I know. Okay. Right now. Yeah. Jamie. Caitlin. That's it we can do it. I know, okay. Right now. Yeah. Jamie. Caitlin.

That's it. We did it. It was pretty fucking incredible what you can do. So we're covering The Breakfast Club today. Is there anyone who has not seen this movie? Round of applause. Oh, okay. Someone sat right in front.

Eager for knowledge. We were talking about how The Breakfast Club kind of sounds like the Bechdel cast. Right? Except we wouldn't let John Hughes anywhere near us. What is your history with the movie, Jamie? Judd Nelson made my mom really horny. That's the most... No, I saw this movie in high school,

and I thought it was fine. I saw it in college, I thought it was fine. And then I saw it a few days ago, and I thought it was fine. I saw it in college. I thought it was fine. And then I saw it a few days ago, and I thought it was fine. I don't like... I just... You know, I just... John Hughes movies just don't do much for me,

even if they're, like, not promoting rape. Like, it's just not... He's just not my... Except for some parts of Uncle Buck. Oh, sure. I like Trains, Plan planes, and automobiles. I think that's my favorite. What is that about?

Well, it's Steve Martin and John Candy, so already I'm not passing the Bechdel test. They hate each other. They use a lot of modes of transportation. That's pretty much it. That sounds pretty good. It's fun. I would watch that.

So it's just the two of us today. We don't have a guest. It is. Oh, I forgot about my history with the movie. Yeah. We've never done this before. Sorry. This is our first day.

This is our first episode. My history with the movie is I saw it for the first time in high school. I think one of my English teachers was like, hey, kids, ew. He encouraged us to watch the movie as an assignment. I don't know. It was something about we watched it in school or something like that.

And that teacher was later fired. Not for that. He was fired because it was discovered that he was an erotic dancer. Oh, that's not fair. I don't think he should have been fired as a teacher for that. Hold on, this story has taken a turn.

I thought you were about to say how he's a molester. It's like, sure, everyone had a teacher who turned out to be a molester. Oh, like, sure, everyone had a teacher who turned out to be a molester. Oh, okay. See, that was my track coach. But that's not fair. No. That's tough.

This is kind of like a cool, old person movie to show young people. They're like, I get it. You want to see Emilio Estevez cry? I get it. Yeah, sure. I guess he really leveled with me. Should I do the recap?

Yeah, let's do the recap. People love a recap. And we don't have a guest, so that means I get to interrupt twice as much, which is pretty cool. Pretty cool. The movie opens with glass shattering? No, it opens

with a David Bowie quote and then glass shattering. And then glass shattering. Sorry. We were like, okay, what decade are we in here? Is it like John Hughes

or Charlie Brooker? Am I right? It's a black mirror joke. Stop making fun of Charlie Brooker. Computers are actually bad. What? Yeah, technology is actually a little scary.

Aren't you a hacker, though? Yeah. That show is Charlie Brooker warning everyone about me. Speaking of hackers, though, there is, like, in the beginning, with the montage of all the quick cuts of, like, the shows a classroom and one of the signs there's like a sign hanging up in the classroom that says hackers will be expelled has anyone noticed that yeah it's go back and watch it has been persecuted yeah okay so anyways the movie opens we meet five students

they have detention for nine hours. Is that normal? Did anyone have anything like this at their school? You just have to spend a feature-length amount of time with people? No, it's like all three Lord of the Rings movies' worth of time. Yeah, I feel like that's asking for someone to get beat up. Like if you leave five teenagers in a room together for nine hours, someone's going to get hurt.

Yeah. That's just how teens work. So the five students we meet are Claire, the princess, Molly Ringwald. She's like the rich, popular girl type. We've got Andy Clark, the athlete. That's Emilio Estevez, his character. Yeah. He does cry. Yeah. They all cry, I think. Brian, a.k. Clark, the athlete. That's Emilio Estevez, his character. He does cry.

Yeah. They all cry, I think. Brian, a.k.a. the brain. Anthony Michael Hall. Great name anagram, am I right? Anthony Michael Hall does not rape anyone in this John Hughes movie, so that's good. Right. You've seen 16 Candles.

Watch 16 Candles. You get a very different Anthony Michael Hall. Actually, you kind of get the same character, but a rapist. True. Wild. Allison Reynolds is the basket case. That's Ally Sheedy's character. She's not like the other girls.

True. And finally, Bender's the criminal. That's Judd Nelson's character. He's 26 years old. He's 26 in this movie. Kissing a 16-year-old Molly Ringwald. And just a behind-the-scenes fact that I found freaky, like a lot of male actors choose

because they won't get in trouble if they do, Judd Nelson was like, I think I'm going to go method with this and just bullied Molly Ringwald for the entirety of the movie. He's 10 years older than her. Offset, right? and and john hughes at one point tried to fire him and then all the teens were like no it was a i don't i can't make heads or tails of that but it's true anytime a man thinks he's going method he just wants to yell at someone like that's just literally what it is. Also, we talked in the car on the way up here that the members

of the Breakfast Club are also sort of the Spice Girls. Break this down, please. Sporty Spice. Obviously, Emilio Estevez. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Scary Spice is Judd Nelson. See, this is where we don't...

Okay, all right. Let me make a case for this. Wow, audible groans. Jesus. San Francisco. We thought that... Posh is Molly Ringwald. Can we agree with that?

Baby, we said, was Anthony Michael Hall because he's innocent and blonde. A flesh-colored headed hair person if I've ever seen one. I know, I'm aware. That would make Ginger Ally Sheedy's character. It's not a one-to-one match,

but we've got a solid three out of five. But then also Ginger is, like Molly Ringwald is gingery based on hair color alone. Sorry to reduce women to their hair color. We're digging a hole here. Anyway, let's move on. We've got Richard Vernon. He's the teacher principal character.

He's the assistant principal. And they're often, I feel like that's like a stock character of like the put upon assistant principal and they're often I feel like that's a stock character of the put upon assistant principal Isn't Captain Underpants an assistant principal? Or was he the principal? I think he was the assistant principal Just a scholarly observation

And he's like this disciplinarian He's like you guys can't talk, you can't move and I have to write an essay about who they think they are Then Bender, he's like this disciplinarian. He's like, you guys can't talk, you can't move, blah, blah, blah. And they have to write an essay about who they think they are. Then Bender, he's like the tough guy. He's trying to get a rise out of everybody. He's like, you're a nerd. And everyone's like, well, you're a jock. And then they're all just hating each other because of their...

They all call each other labels. Because teens? But they mostly ignore the quote-unquote basket case girl, and then she doesn't talk for most of the movie. Then we see a montage. There's a lot of dancing montages. They're doing their stuff. Take out the dancing montages.

This movie's 35 minutes long. A lot of dancing montages. There's a shot where Anthony Michael Hall's character is adjusting his crotch and then puts his hat on his lap. Are we to believe that he got a bonar? I don't know. I hope not.

Hard to say. Hard to say. Oh, no. I'm so sorry. We can't know. Okay. So it's hard because there's kind of not a plot, so I don't know how to recap this.

They could only afford three rooms to shoot the movie in, so they got to emote in a lot of different confined spaces. I don't know. They're just harassing. Yeah, Ben's harassing Molly Ringwald for most of the movie. It's time for lunch. Calling her all manner of horrible names. They eat lunch at some point.

And then there's this conversation where Brian is like, I'm a virgin, but I'm embarrassed to admit it. And then Molly Ringwald's like, I think virgins are cool. And then everyone's like, oh. And everyone's like, woo. And then Judd Nelsonelson's like what are you guys talking about um you know a lot of points are brought up yeah um the bender character uh reveals that he's being physically abused at home by his father we learn different sort of

backstories of each of the characters uh like ali sheedy's character, is ignored by her parents. Which is why she's eating dog food or something. I saw too much of myself in her. I saw too much of myself in her. I was like, okay, so she's like a teenager, but she's like, but what do I do? If she had access to Mike's Hard Lemonades, she would be drinking Mike's Hard Lemonades.

She was saying she was drinking vodka, but she can't even get her hands on an MHL. Embarrassing. So she eats pixie sticks on sandwiches instead. She's not like the other girls, everyone. She needs you to know. And then there's a point where they go to Bender's locker to get weed, and then they think,

and there is homophobic slurs written all over his locker. Yeah. And then they think they're going to get caught because they are running around the halls trying to dodge Vernon in a scene that is not unlike Titanic where Jack and Rose are running around the ship and then they come upon a gate. Trying not to get caught by Billy Zane.

What Billy Zane was in this movie? Too much heat. He was busy being in Back to the Future as one of Biff's cronies. Oh, that's true. So playing a similar character to the Judd Nelson character. As long as Zane's getting work. I can sleep at night.

So there's a gate, and they can't go any farther, just like Jack and Rose. So they have to turn around, they have to find another way, and then... And then one of them drowns. No spoilers.

We won't tell you which character it is. But in The Breakfast Club, bender is like i'll sacrifice myself so he goes running around all crazy in the halls and gets caught so that the others don't yeah and then there's also the scene prior to that where the assistant principal verbally abuses bender and like just it that's like a tough scene to unpack. At the beginning you're not sure why Bender's being such a dick to everyone but as the movie goes on

you start to understand why. So by the time he's flailing around and got the weed you're like okay this is like 60% fine with me. Right. And then shortly after that, whenever he gets caught by Vernon,

he locks Bender in a closet and then tries to initiate a physical fight with him. And then we see him kind of Bender back down and not engage. So maybe he's more sensitive than we all think he is. Or maybe his teacher's trying to fight him. Like an unhinged person. Like, hey, everyone at this school likes me.

No one will believe me if I fight you. I was like, what are you talking about? Sicko. And then Bender escapes through the air ducts and gets back into the library. Very Mission Impossible. True. And then he hides under a desk

because Vernon comes in and that's when we get the famous and upsetting underwear crotch shot of Molly Ringwald's character. Which we'll get. We'll get there. Don't you worry. And then they're all they smoke the weed. There's

a million dance breaks. Super cool. You cannot have an 80s teen movie without Kevin Bacon or Emilio Estevez or someone just dancing for like five minutes straight. Guys, remember when weed was cool still? This movie brings you back to when weed was cool. Right. And not for dads trying to tell you they get it. And then we get to the scene where they're all sitting around

and they're talking about sex. Ever heard of it? Who's horny, who's not. That's not how it goes. They're like all virgins, basically. Pretty much. Yeah. Bender's trying to like he's like he goes

back to berating claire for a bit they all talk about hey are we gonna be friends after this and then claire's like i'm too popular she's a straight shooter yeah and then brian reveals that he is failing shop right class And then the reason he got detention is that he brought a gun to school with the intention of committing suicide. Right. But with a flare gun, which is played as a joke.

And it's, I don't know, we can talk about that later. It's weird, yeah. Remember the days when you could bring a weapon to school and only get Saturday detention? Like, what? Oh, goodness. the days when you could bring a weapon to school and only get saturday detention like what oh goodness and then uh allison's like i didn't do anything to get detention i just showed up

but first she says a lot of fucked up stuff yes um and then yeah and then her her secret, as it were, whatever, is that she is a compulsive liar. Right. And then they dance again, right? Somehow they dance again. At some point, these are recycling shots. Earlier it was just Emilio Estevez dancing, and then they dance as a group.

That's the video that Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez was recreating when she was a student at Boston University. Now is a great time to bring up that I do have a master's degree in screenwriting from Boston University. Thank you so much. Why would you cheer for that? Unfortunately, AOC and I did not overlap at our time at BU but you know BU represent

okay wow I'm sorry Jamie I also went to college thank you so much. Guys, it's a fucking scam. No one learned anything. It's a fucking scam and we're all going to be in debt until we're dead. Please buy our merch over there because we are drowning in student loan debt. I took a class on Lost in college. I'm just like, the show Lost? Yeah, and I'm never going to own a home. It's just like they're the show lost and i'm never yeah and i'm never gonna own a home you know it's just like sure worth it okay so after the dance where they all dance claire

gives allison a makeover because women right right we'll talk about that. And then Claire, for no reason it seems, goes and kisses Bender on the collarbone. Yeah, I mean, because after harassing her for nine consecutive hours, she's decided he's worn her down. Really, really, really male writing going on there. And then Andy, who sees Allison, is like, wow, you're pretty.

You took your hoodie off. I love you. And then, meanwhile, Brian, who has no one to kiss, is forced to do everyone's homework. Which, honestly, is a wild power move that i thought was a little funny because he because they were all like in that moment i was like brian you're seriously falling for this right now like he's they're just like brian you're the smartest out of all of us which they know is what he wants to hear and he's like yeah so and they're like so we were thinking you

would do i'm like this happens to like dorky kids in school all the time. They don't fall for that shit after a while. Brian's too old to be falling for that trick. Grow up, Brian. Don't write everyone's essay. But he does. And he's all like, you see us how you want to see us, Mr. Vernon. Yeah, he kind of goes edgelord on you.

He's like, but we're all the criminal and princess and basket case. So teach and I'm gonna... Can you imagine if you were a person doing their job and someone left you that letter? I would literally be like, yeah,

fine, and I would throw it away immediately. would literally be like, yeah, fine. And I would throw it away immediately. I'd be like, yeah, awesome. And then? They all leave. And then there are two hetero kisses. And then old fingerless gloves pumps his fist. And then we all get to go home.

And that's the movie. That is the movie. Daphne Caruana Galizia was a Maltese investigative journalist who on October 16, 2017, was murdered. There are crooks everywhere you look now. The situation is desperate. My name is Manuel Delia. I am one of the hosts of Crooks Everywhere, a podcast that unhurts the plot to murder a one-woman WikiLeaks. Daphne exposed the culture of crime and corruption that were turning her beloved country into a mafia state. And she paid the ultimate price. Listen to Crooks Everywhere on the iHeartRadio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm Gianna Pradente. And I'm Jemay Jackson-Gadsden. We're the hosts of Let's Talk Offline, a new podcast from LinkedIn News and iHeart Podcasts. When you're just starting out in your career, you have a lot of questions. Like, how do I speak up when I'm feeling overwhelmed? Or, can I negotiate a higher salary if this is my first real job? Girl, yes! Each week, we answer your unfiltered work questions.

Think of us as your work besties you can turn to for advice. And if we don't know the answer, we bring in experts who do. Like resume specialist Morgan Saner. The only difference between the person who doesn't get the job and the person who gets the job is usually who applies. Yeah, I think a lot about that quote. What is it like you miss 100 percent of the shots you never take? Yeah, rejection is scary, but it's better than you rejecting yourself. Together, we'll share what it really takes to thrive in the early years of your career without sacrificing your sanity or sleep.

Listen to Let's Talk Offline on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, everybody. This is Matt Rogers. And Bowen Yang. We've got some exciting news for you. You know we're always bringing you the best guests, right? Well, this week we're taking it to the next level. The one, the only, Katherine Hahn

is joining us on Lost Culture East. That's right. The queen of comedy herself. Get ready for a conversation that's as hilarious as it is insightful. Tune in for all the laughs,

the stories, and of course, the culture. I feel some Sandra Bernhardt in you. Oh, my God. I would love it. I have to watch Lost. Oh, you have to. Oh, my God. I would love it. I have to watch Lost.

Oh, you have to. No, I know. I'm so behind. Katherine Hanken's thing. Oh, I'm really good at karaoke. What's your song? Yeah, what's your song? Oh, I love a ballad.

I felt Bjork's music. I just was like, who is this person? I got to hawk this slalom, Ludi. Not hawk the slalom. I absolutely love it. It was somehow Shakespearean when you said it. It was somehow gorgeous. Yee, my slok, you hollum.

Listen to Las Culturistas on Will Ferrell's Big Money Players Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I had fun with this because I'm not particularly attached to the movie. Sure. And a lot of it, I don't, I mean, things I appreciate about this movie are that it is a movie that, even though it misfires in a lot of directions and ways we'll talk about, it at least takes teenage characters seriously. And for the most part,

we're seeing teenagers acting out and often harassing each other and teasing each other. But at very least, you get background for everyone in some context and unlike a lot of other teen movies it doesn't go the direction of playing the adult in a totally comical way too or like often if it's like a movie directed or marketed at young people it's like all the teens get it and the adults are fucking idiots and they are, but you at least get background on them as well. And I don't know. Everyone felt at least there was attention given to every character,

even if a lot of it was like, no. So I appreciated that. Yeah, and I agree. I don't have a special attachment to this movie either. Again, I'm not like a huge John Hughes fan. But I mean, he was doing what no one was really doing at that time. And this is something that Molly Ringwald brings up in the piece that she wrote for The New Yorker, where he kind of revolutionized stories for and about teenagers. So I understand why this is a beloved movie

then and still now. And I think that one of the things that I think it does pretty well, and this is kind of mirroring what you were saying, Jamie, but it spends time and attention on each of the characters. So we talk about the female characters, and they are...

Although, I don't know about the Ally Sheedy character Well they're underrepresented in this movie in general because you see the Breakfast Club is male character heavy and then the other three adult, all three adult characters you see are men. The assistant principal

Carl, cool janitor Carl Shout out to my freaking boy. And then Emilio Estevez's wild and out dad who isn't, who's Emilio Estevez's real dad? Isn't it someone famous? Martin Sheen.

Martin Sheen. Missed opportunity. What? Someone is heckling Martin Sheen? What's up? President. Dude, Aaron Sorkin was cancelled today. Pay attention. Come on.

But Martin Sheen, Grayson and Frankie season five. Oh. Yeah, you might know him from Grayson and Frankie. I love that show. Anyways, what were we talking about? Oh. Too many men. That's a note. True. But yeah, I mean, all three, love that show anyways what were we talking about oh too many men that's a note true only but yeah i mean all three i think it was like a misstep and and to be generous with john

hughes who does not have a good track record uh in in a lot of respects making every adult character presented uh male character is both weird and also not reflective of the education system. It just was like, I don't know, it just seems like a dumb missed opportunity. We see Brian's mom very briefly and I don't think we see any other parents, but she's like, study!

I mean, we see dad. Amelia's daddy. But in addition to that, I don't think we see any other ones. Yeah, and i think with the molly ringwald character like so much attention is focused on her um which is good for our discussion but with the basket case ali sheedy character she doesn't even say words until like 33 minutes into the movie or something like that. She's like acting vaguely feral.

Her character is confusing. And it's weird because it comes out that she's a compulsive liar, which is played as a joke, basically. Because they're like, oh, everything this. But if you only have two female characters and at the end you're like, oh, this female character, one of the two?

Don't listen to a word she fucking says. Not a true word comes out of this lady's mouth. Not that she said much to begin with. Because then she doesn't speak again until I think it's 59 minutes into the movie. But the things she does say at the end are very dark. She says that she has sex with her therapist as an underage girl like she says some really dark stuff and and then to like say all that stuff and then just be like oh i'm a compulsive liar teehee and then kiss emilio estevez is like first of all what and and that's like a very 1980s glazing over of a discussion of mental illness.

True. And compulsive lying is a very blanket term that it's clear the writer doesn't understand or has done any research on. And he just kind of uses it ultimately as a way to be like, well, hope you weren't listening to her because she's nuts. But we made her pretty pretty so now she's gonna kiss martin sheen's son yep like which is a bummer because i love ali sheedy and that i mean it's it's weird because i feel like a lot of young women and and you know older women who

see that movie more closely aligned with her than with Claire but the chasm between those two people is like no one is really either of them but when I was a teenager I was like well I guess I'm the one eating dog food because

no one invites me places so I guess I'm just... So that's not good. Well, because one of the main things about this movie is that we see all these trope characters. So we see the princess character. I guess a basket case was a trope or like a click or something in the day but that means you see a representation on screen of women in these very tropey roles

but the whole point of the movie also is to say hey you might have this identity to some degree based on like the click you're in or whatever but but you're a multidimensional person that has stuff to offer outside of that high school identity. And that's like the theme of the movie. But you still get these characters who I would argue we don't really get to know well enough or don't have that much nuance, as much nuance as the movie wants you to think they have. Right.

I mean, it's weird because in some ways they're like, oh, all these high school trope characters are deeper than you think, which the movie does do, but there's still that character. Right. There's still the football guy is footballing too hard. You're like, okay. Or she's too popular like there it's not really even like subverting that much if you think about it that much because it's like molly ringwald you

know everyone has issues with their parents which is brought through in the movie pretty effectively but it's not like uh another brilliant feminist sex high school musical where in the showstopper stick to the status quo, you find out, hey, here's someone who's really academic, but she loves to dance. And here's a basketball star, Corbin Bleu. Or no, no, it's Zeke. Zeke, he's in basketball basketball but he loves to bake like is that the Zac Efron character no he's not in this number he's playing basketball

he's busy okay but it's uh all that to say I just got really excited um no but like it's not even that the characters in the breakfast club necessarily like contain multitudes and are like they're just like no I really am popular and it's not as easy as it looks and I have parents

you're just like okay I don't know there is some like posturing it does that I don't know I think sometimes this movieuring it does that, I don't know. I think sometimes this movie gets credit for work it's not necessarily doing. Yeah. And also, if there are five main characters, and there's opportunities to see them interacting on screen

in different combinations, either one-on-one, or maybe there's three of them, I feel like one of the combinations that gets the least amount of attention in the movie is the Claire-Allison relationship. I mean, pretty much all of it's at the very end of the movie. And that feels like a, like, John Hughes doesn't understand how to write teenage girls interacting

as many men don't. Ooh, Great transition. I have a little, okay. So John Hughes, this is like phase two of John Hughes' career at this point, where he starts out at a feminist Bible called the National Lampoon. Whilst there, he writes some of the most offensive stuff i've ever heard yes uh for here are two examples i'm able to say out loud but they're very this and this and this predates breakfast club and it's not but worth it for context uh some short stories john John Hughes thought, right off the top of his head. A dog's tail has a boy watching his mother turn into a dog.

Yep. Against His Will features an, quote, ugly, fat, unquote, woman who tries to rape a man at gunpoint in front of the man's wife and parents because she can't have sex otherwise. Yep. Yeah. Okay. front of the man's wife and parents because she can't have sex otherwise yep yeah okay and then here's the the hughes engagement guide is an illustrated manual on how to protect yourself against women it gives examples of women quote bullshitting to not put out unquote and teaches readers how to do a quote quick, quickie pelvic exam, unquote, how to detect, quote, signs of future fat, unquote, and how to determine if a woman has ancestors of different races based on what her relatives look like.

So. That's our hero, John Hughes. Yes, queen indeed there and and this i mean that makes it hard to want to watch anything he does and and it is weird that you know like these were written as as recently as within like five to seven years before he started making these serious teen movies so it's not as surprising at all that he cannot write a competent female character there's a persona a john hughes persona that existed prior to this that was quite contemptuous of women uh and and it is interesting and bizarre that he you know a few years on decides that he is going to be like a

voice for teenage girls right going back to that specific relationship in the movie between claire and allison the only like one-on-one interaction they have is toward the end whenever claire gives allison a makeover because because according to John Hughes, girls can't talk unless they're putting makeup on each other. Well, and then prior to that, it's very antagonistic between the two of them, where these two characters have barely spoken the whole movie. They may not have actually spoken to each other at all,

besides in passing, before this scene where everyone's talking about sex, and Judd Nelson's character for whatever reason decides he's going to double down on Molly Ringwald's character again and is like, why won't you tell me if you're a virgin? Because if you ask it's like being a cop. You have to

tell people if you're a virgin. So he decides to start harassing her again and for some kind of weird inex inexplicable reason, Allison joins in and is kind of like, no, why won't you tell him? And it's hard to parse exactly what the intent of that scene is like over 30 years later.

But I think that you're supposed to want to be like, you're like, oh no, she should tell us. It's like, no, no one ever owes any random detention kids any of your personal information ever you know and but it it struck me as just like frustrating and annoying that this is the first time we're actually getting an interaction out of these characters and immediately and kind of in the story i think irrationally allison just turns on claire and starts harassing her there's also another small example within the same scene where allison comes to claire's defense and she's like actually don't bother but it's just so all over the place right that you're just like why

like because one of the first things she says is, it's a double-edged sword. If you haven't had sex, you're a prude. If you have, you're a slut, which she's commenting on a very real double standard for women and whether or not they've had sex. But then she says, you know, you want to, but you can't. And then you're a tease, right? You're like, she calls her a tease several times.

Well, I think she's still, like, making some sort of commentary there, but it's weird that she does that right after she, like, dunks on Molly Ringwald for bullying her into, you know, saying it one way or the other, and it's just, I don't know. I think this movie thinks that if anyone asks you

if you're a virgin, you're legally required to tell them because people are treating molly ringwald like she is breaking the law by by not disclosing um that transitions pretty well into a short scene earlier in the movie where um anthony michael hall's character brian uh is being harassed by Judd Nelson, which is 70% of the movie. But he's being harassed, and Judd Nelson, his move is like, you're a virgin,

which is pretty true to high school. But he's teasing Brian, calling him a virgin. Brian's like, I'm not a virgin. I've laid lots of times. And you're like, yikes. Dead giveaway, dude. But then he starts to lie, which also feels like, I don't know,

at least based on people I knew in high school, that's a pretty authentic experience of guys being like, no, I had sex all that time. And then Judd Nelson's like, who? And then he gestures at Molly Ringwald. He's like, her. And then Judd Nelson's like, Molly Ringwald, you fuck this guy? And so this could be a very troubling scene.

The reason it works pretty well for me is that, I don't know. I mean, Molly Ringwald finds out immediately she's right there and she's like no and then you know like calls him out on it like don't do that and he apologizes he's like but being a virgin's a loser and then she says what you said earlier like being a virgin is actually awesome and then judd she's posh Posh Spice, yeah. Yes, yes. And then, you know, there are two virgins and a Judd. Yeah, I don't know. That scene worked for me way better than all the times they're just piling on Molly Ringwald

to make her say something one way or the other. And it's not just that. I mean, it's the Judd Nelson character, fingerless gloves. He's a little counterculture, everyone. He spends almost the entire movie either sexually harassing her by saying things like, hey, let's lock the doors so we can impregnate the prom queen. Which is a threat.

Yeah, that is a threat. He asks Andy, he's like, hey, did you give her the hot beef injection? I think is the line. And then you're like, oh yeah, a 40-year-old man

thought of that. Gross. Or like the skirt scene where he sees her. He's under the desk. Let's give some context for that. Yes.

So he's hiding under the desk. The b give some context for that. Yes. So he's hiding under the desk. The Bender character is because he can't be seen by Vernon. As he's under there he sees Claire's underwear. So this was a scene that's not Molly Ringwald

in that scene. Legally it could not be Molly Ringwald in that scene. But in the New Yorker essay from last year that you were referencing earlier, because Molly Ringwald is like 16, 17 when this is filmed, so her mom is talking with John Hughes almost as much as she is.

And there was one plot point involving a naked female gym teacher that they talked him out of including because it was just perverted and weird. But they could not talk him out of the underwear scene and that was something that molly ringwald's mom was like really frustrated and upset about and like john hughes would not back down on it and so they had to hire a body double to come in and be you know the the skirt yeah and um so that is why that scene is there it's just like that that is such like a classic example of like here are two women telling you this is not okay and he's like

i'll hire someone else and you know just like flexes on them in this very gross way like if if and it's also like safe to say if the actor you hired cannot legally do it probably don't do it that is a great indication especially if the actor opposite them is 26 years old like what are you gross yeah and then we're meant to i think so he sees her underwear and then we see him move his face closer into her crotch area and then she yelps so we see her in frame rather than him then and she like yelps and then hard to say what exactly happens but i think we can easily assume that he doesn't know what happens he doesn't know but the basically the Bender character assaults her. Yeah.

And then the reaction is immediately afterwards her like smacking him several times on the back and then that doesn't get brought up. I mean that just They still make out at the end and she gives him a diamond. Yeah. God.

If every man that assaulted you you had to give a diamond. Yeah. God. If every man that assaulted you, you had to give a diamond. It's for fucking God. Johnny Hughes is disgusting. Opposite of what happens in Titanic with the Billy's sitting. It's very true. Defne Caruana Galizia was a Maltese investigative journalist who on October 16th 2017 was murdered there are crooks everywhere you look now

the situation is desperate my name is Manuel Delia I am one of the hosts of Crooks Everywhere, a podcast that unhearts the plot to murder a one-woman Wikileaks. Daphne exposed the culture of crime and corruption that were turning her beloved country into a mafia state. And she paid the ultimate price. Listen to Crooks Everywhere on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Hey, I'm Gianna Pradente. And I'm Jemay Jackson-Gadsden. We're the hosts of Let's Talk Offline, a new podcast from LinkedIn News and iHeart Podcasts. When you're just starting out in your career, you have a lot of questions like, how do I speak up when I'm feeling overwhelmed? Or can I negotiate a higher salary if this is my first real job? Girl, yes. Each week, we answer your unfiltered work questions. Think of us as your work besties you can turn to for advice. And if we don't know the answer, we bring in experts who do, like resume specialist Morgan Saner. The only difference

between the person who doesn't get the job and the person who gets the job is usually who applies. Yeah, I think a lot about that quote. What is it like you miss 100% of the shots you never take? Yeah, rejection is scary, but it's better than you rejecting yourself. Together, we'll share what it really takes to thrive in the early years of your career without sacrificing your sanity or sleep. Listen to Let's Talk Offline on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, everybody, this is Matt Rogers.

And Bowen Yang. We've got some exciting news for you. You know we're always bringing you the best guests, right? Well, this week we're taking it to the next level. The one, the only Katherine Hahn is joining us on Lost Culture East. That's right. The queen of comedy herself.

Get ready for a conversation that's as hilarious as it is insightful. Tune in for all the laughs, the stories, and of course the culture. I feel some Sandra Bernhardt in you. Oh, my God, I would love it. I have to watch Lost. Oh, you have to.

No, I know, I'm so behind. Katherine Hanken's thing. Oh, I'm really good at karaoke. What's your song? Yeah, what's your song? Oh, I love a ballad. I felt Bjork's music, and I just was like, who's your song? Oh, I love a ballad. I felt Bjork's music. I just was like, who is this person?

I got to hawk this slalom, Lugie. Not hawk the slalom. I absolutely love it. It was somehow Shakespearean when you said it. It was somehow gorgeous. Yee, my slok, you hollum. Listen to Las Culturistas on Will Ferrell's Big Money Players Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I mean, the rundown of what Bender's character says to Claire is like, I mean, it really, there's a lot of anti-queer slurs thrown throughout this movie from all characters.

So you know that John Hughes just thinks, it's Jill. There's one speech, like monologue, that Bender delivers to Claire that is fat shaming her in the future. Yeah. Which is just insane. He's harassing her, asking if she's a virgin all the time he's

making comments about how she couldn't you know get away from him if she wanted to she can't resist him all this stuff yeah uh he screams you are a bitch at her loudly um at one point he kind of he makes fun of and, who is a wrestler. He's like, oh, I just admire any guy who rolls around on the floor with another guy. And the implication that he's saying something homophobic. So Bender, maybe not a good guy. And yet, for reasons that are very unclear to at least me, she goes into the broom closet that he is locked into because he was misbehaving so badly gives him a hickey and a diamond yeah so i i mean but this

is something we see again and again where i mean and he's not even wearing her down in a way that movies usually do it where it's like please go out with me please please please he's just like you're a fucking bitch ramping it up the whole movie and then it's like after he assaults her that she's like i'm gonna give him a chance like it's just not it's totally nonsensical right the way that happens and it's like at least that's very clear to people now but it's just like it's crazy i mean and that's not to say that there isn't more context in layers to the bender character because there is and there's like a lot of time devoted to his background and uh coming from an abusive household that scene we were referencing with him and the assistant principal who is basically the whole time saying

that he can be abusive you know he's another another abusive paternal figure in Bender's life, and he's allowed to do that because Bender is poor and Bender's from an abusive household, and no one will believe him if he says anything, which is powerful stuff. I was affected by it, especially in that scene where the assistant principals fight me, which is classic.

But before that, that bizarre initiation, he's saying a lot of horrible stuff that is recognizable of an abusive paternal figure. It's even more of a bummer if you get

that side of effective storytelling, but then you're also setting the standard of you have incredible empathy for this character who is verbally abusing one of the only females you get to see on screen for the entire time, and that's not really reflected as something that's not okay to do. So it's even more of a bummer of by the end of the movie, it's hard not to love him in some way or have a lot of empathy for him

while he's doing these horrible things that are not really treated as horrible. Right. So it's a real... We're gaslit once again. God damn it. Damn it. And then, well, the other hetero romance

that ends up playing out is a direct result of a makeover scene, which is when Claire is putting the makeup on Allison in the only, again, the only scene that they have together, one-on-one. And then she says something like, you look a lot better with all that black shit under your eyes. And then the Hot Topic managers of the world shat themselves. And then she completely changes the way Allison looks.

And I guess, did Claire just bring a whole other outfit to school to give to her? Not even a cute outfit, by the way. Well, yeah, because she's got like a flower in her hair. Her makeup is more traditional. She's wearing pastel pink. And then Andy sees her and he's like. So basically.

My bonar. So she's only attractive to Andy once she changes everything about her appearance. Yeah. And it doesn't occur to him that she is attractive until she's adhering to this more conventional feminine standard of beauty. Right, which was part of the projected point of her character was to subvert that.

But clearly, John Hughes is a lawless motherfucker. And actually doesn't have much of a vested interest of subverting much of anything. Boom, ba-ba-boom. Wow. Anyways, one other point I wanted to hit on for the Brian character, who we don't really get to know before they're like,

hey, do our homework, dork. And he's like, okay. And then he writes shitty lyrics or whatever. But he's characterized very late in the story. And he says that, yeah, he was going to kill himself with a flare gun. Which is worth saying is a very bizarre, reductive way to treat any suicidality or anything like that. And it almost feels like an afterthought in the story of like, oh, shit. Anthony Michael Hall's here.

What would he have done? He already raped someone in the last movie. I don't know what to do with him in this one um and then they sort of just i mean and it's it's weird because it it could be an effective plot point that was thoughtfully told but he says it in like three sentences sort of and then everyone is sort of like that's stupid and And he's like, you're right. And so you're just like, oh, so he's cured of suicidal thoughts and tendencies? Pretty sure that's not how that works. No.

And then right after he's like, you know, I recently almost killed myself, they're like, tee hee hee, do our homework. Yeah. So that's not good. I mean, it's one of many things that is not handled well in the movie. No, it's not. I guess the last thing I have is just checking out some of the Molly Ringwalds.

Yes. She wrote the piece last year that we thought was like a really thoughtful look at the body of work that made her famous highly recommend checking it out i like to think she wrote it between scenes of riverdale being shot but we don't know the circumstances but let's say canonically it was between of riverdale are there any particular passages you wanted to to point out or um let's see I already kind of paraphrased a few of them so if you want to take a crack at any of yours uh well basically she runs through a lot of stuff we were talking about today and just like at the time when she was 16 17 shooting these movies she didn't recognize and hadn't been

conditioned to recognize the elements of rape culture and other things that appear in these movies aside from the things that she did notice and pointed out and sometimes were ignored and sometimes weren't ignored and she gives a few examples of those um she also gives a great anecdote talking with the woman from 16 candles who it's implied that anthony michael hall's character rapes, and how they got lunch together, and Molly Ringwald was like, do you think this was fucked up? And the lady was like, honestly, never thought about it. And then, three hours later,

the actress who played that part emails her back, and is like, oh my God. That was incredibly fucked up. And so it was just like a really interesting piece on, you know, just sort of what we're trying to do is just, you know, reflect on stuff without, you know, totally disowning it as a body of work, but just, you know, viewing it more thoughtfully and critically. I just wanted to read the thing she says, how she sort of closes the piece out.

She says, quote, how are we meant to feel about art that we both love and oppose? What if we're in the unusual position of having helped create it? Erasing history is a dangerous road when it comes to art. Change is essential,

but so too is remembering the past in all of its transgression and barbarism so that we may properly gauge how far we have come and also how far we still need to go, which I thought was just nice. Yeah, that's kind of like the thesis of the Bechdel cast.

And then Cole Sprouse leans into the room and he's like, we're shooting Riverdale over here. And then she had to go. But up till then, it was a great essay. I will say

this is one of a few teen movies that doesn't end in a prom or doesn't have some sort of prom affiliated with it. I honestly think

that if he had had the budget he would have anyway. He probably would have. But he didn't. Prom is that night and they've spent nine hours in detention

so they're like, we're tired but I guess we'll go to prom. Yeah. All right. Yeah, I mean. and we're almost out of time here too.

Caitlin. Yeah. Does this movie pass the Bechdel test? I am going to say yes. I know. Because speak your case. Okay.

Well, okay, this one is worth kind of debating because Allison says, I'll do anything sexual and I don't need a million dollars to do it. I mean, we can all relate. Sorry, that was erasing asexual people, so i'm sorry to do that claire says you're lying and then allison says i already have i've done just about everything there is except a few things that are illegal again we can all relate um and then she says i'm a nymphomaniac but isn't she implying heterosexuals yeah exactly so i. So I don't think that counts.

That one is probably a no, but then Claire and Alison talk about makeup and they say, don't stick me. Don't stick that in my eye. And Claire says, you know, you look a lot better with all that, without all that black shit around your eye.

And then Alison says, Hey, I like that black shit. And then Claire says says this looks a lot better and then she's like why are you being so nice to me because you're letting me the end of that conversation tragically that does pass that is the past that is the past but again it's two women talking about confining to norms right yes very hyper feminine things hot so that is a yes hair, makeup. Right, yes. Very hyper-feminine things. So that is a yes.

All right. Well, John uses a feminist icon. I take it all back. I feel a little fucking stupid now just saying all those things about him. All right, shall we rate it on our nipple scale? Yes, we should. All right, let's rate it on our nipple scale? Yes, we should. All right, let's do it.

Wow. If you're not familiar, our nipple scale, we use a scale of zero to five nipples, and we rate it based on its portrayal and representation of women. This one's kind of tricky for me because it is an earlier example of seeing teen women on screen who are not the way that they were portrayed in movies like Porky's and Revenge of the Nerds

and really awful movies. Never say Porky's in front of me again. I'm so sorry. How dare they make a movie called Porky's? So we're seeing more nuanced depictions of teen girls, but again, I would argue not as nuanced as the movie wants you to think. They're still fairly tropey, and we do get to know them,

and these characters especially, the Molly Ringwald character is more developed of a character than we had seen in a teen girl kind of up until that point but the way that she is treated especially by the jed nelson character and then forced into a hetero kiss with him the movie forcing her because she is the one who goes and kisses him which is like why did you do that He threatened to rape you nine hours ago. And then he did assault you.

Right. It's just, ugh. So there's a lot of missteps like that. Worth noting that this is an extremely white movie. In fact, I mean, it's 100% a white movie. Yeah, in all of John Hughes' movies. Except for the long ducked-on character in Sixteen Candles, which is...

I'm so sorry, you're right. He's an icon of representation. Yeah, so I think... I know this is a beloved movie. I know it explores themes that still resonate with us today. But I think it is very obviously a 1985

movie. 85? 85. 84. 85? Go on once, go twice. It's in 1984. Oh, right. Okay. For some reason, Detention's in 84. Yes. Movie's in 85. Who knows why? I'm gonna give it

one and a half. Okay. Is that wrong? I hate doing this at live shows because I'm like, I'm wrong. Everyone goes. She said one and a half. One and a half. Let her live.

Thank you. Thank you so much. Who are you giving the nips to? I'm going to give one to Molly Ringwald. Thank you. Thank you so much. Yeah. Who are you giving the nips to? I'm going to give one to Molly Ringwald. I'm going to throw my half nipple to Anthony Michael Hall. As unexpected of a twist that may be. I'm upset by this too. I have more of an issue with that.

I know. I don't know why I did that. You're rating. I'm upset by this too I have more of an issue with that I know I don't know why I did that I'm gonna give it a half nipple because women are there which not all movies get to I don't know I don't think that

this movie or John Hughes's entire body of work is like as subversive as people make it out to be. And it might be partially because I'm not attached to it and was never really a fan of it, but I just, you know,

you learn about, I like, you learn about Molly Ringwald's character, but that doesn't mean that her character isn't totally sold out by the writer by the end of the movie. And you don't really learn anything about, uh, Ali Sheedy's character. And she's also sold out by the writer by the end of the movie and you don't really learn anything about Ally Sheedy's character

and she's also sold out by the end of the movie and so it's really I mean I guess you know it's like the two female characters I thought were made by the writer to act very irrationally at the end of the movie in a way that in the first hour plus of the movie you would not expect

them to act based on like a strong foundation and then at the end they're just like no you gotta you gotta have a kiss like so i feel for for both of those characters that like had some promise and then were kind of sold out and i also feel for anthony michael hall because he had to do everyone's homework yeah and that's not cool. Half a nipple, and I'm giving it to the janitor. Hell yeah. Who is hot. Who is hot. He's hot and confident.

Because the quick montage at the very beginning in which you do see the hackers will be expelled frame, there's another shot where it's like men. Ugh, gross. But one of them's like, man of the year. There's like a photo, and it's a photo of Carl. He was man of the year when he was in high school. I love Carl. We didn't get to talk about Carl,

but Carl is one of the most fully realized characters in the movie. When everyone's trying to be like, you're a janitor, he's like, fuck you, I'm a janitor. And I was like, yeah, Carl, he fucking rules. He dunks on everyone. Anyone who talks back to Carl, he's like, you can't touch me. I'm the most confident man alive. He goes home and has sex every day.

He's man of the year in my book. Beautiful. Thank you. Well, that's our show. Thanks for coming. Thank you for coming. All right, that was that. Thank you for coming. All right. That was that.

That was the episode. That was so much fun. We wanted to thank everyone who came to the San Francisco show. The turnout was way more than we were expecting. For sure. We had 150 people in a venue that was not necessarily supposed to hold that many people. Right. Which was so great.

And speaking of the venue thanks for having us uh we were at piano fight yeah it's part of the san francisco sketch festival so shouts out to sketch fest for having us shouts out to piano fight for for having us there um thank you so much to our friend friend of the cast sammy junio for recording the show for us for being our road dog for that whole tour you'll be hearing a lot about them in the next couple weeks as we release these episodes indeed and also big thanks to our friend katherine leon who was at the show and was helping us sell merch and just like stay organized and stuff so she's an angel big thanks to katherine thanks friends also big thanks to anyone who bought merch at that show yeah Yeah. That helped us out a lot.

Yeah. We'll be back in San Francisco sometime soon. Soon. Yeah. And as for you, listening person, wherever you are, we'll see you next week. See you next week. Bye. Bye.

Daphne Caruana Galizia was a Maltese investigative journalist who on October 16th, 2017, was assassinated. Crooks Everywhere unnerves the plot to murder a one-woman WikiLeaks. She exposed the culture of crime and corruption that were turning her beloved country into a mafia state. Listen to Crooks Everywhere on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm Gianna Pradenti. And I'm Jermaine Jackson-Gadsden. We're the hosts of Let's Talk Offline from LinkedIn News and iHeart Podcasts.

There's a lot to figure out when you're just starting your career. That's where we come in. Think of us as your work besties you can turn to for advice. And if we don't know the answer, we bring in people who do, like negotiation expert Maury Tahiripour. If you start thinking about negotiations as just a conversation, then I think it sort of eases us a little bit. Listen to Let's Talk Offline on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, everybody, this is Matt Rogers. And Bowen Yang. We've got some exciting news for you. You know, we're always bringing you the best guests, right? Well, this is Matt Rogers. And Bowen Yang. We've got some exciting news for you. You know we're always bringing you the best guests, right? Well, this week we're taking it to the next level.

The one, the only, Katherine Hahn is joining us on Las Culturistas. That's right, the queen of comedy herself. Get ready for a conversation that's as hilarious as it is insightful. Tune in for all the laughs, the stories, and of course, the culture. Don't miss Katherine Hahn on Las Culturistas. Listen to Las Culturistas on Will Ferrell's Big Money Players Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.