The Bechdel Cast - The Devil Wears Prada with Amy Lam

Episode Date: March 7, 2019

Mean boss ladies Jamie and Caitlin hire special guest Amy Lam as their new assistant to help them examine The Devil Wears Prada.(This episode contains spoilers)For Bechdel bonuses, sign up for our Patreon at patreon.com/bechdelcast.Follow @amyadoyzie on Twitter! While you're there, you should also follow @BechdelCast, @caitlindurante and @jamieloftusHELP Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Daphne Caruana Galizia was a Maltese investigative journalist who on October 16th 2017 was assassinated. Crooks Everywhere unearthed the plot to murder a one-woman WikiLeaks. She exposed the culture of crime and corruption that were turning her beloved country into a mafia state. Listen to Crooks Everywhere on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. To listen to new episodes one week early and 100% ad-free, subscribe to the iHeart True Crime Plus channel, available exclusively on Apple Podcasts. In California during the summer of 1975, within the span of 17 days and less than 90 miles, two women did something no other woman had done before, try to assassinate the president of the United States. One was the protege of Charles Manson.

26-year-old Lynette Fromm, nicknamed Squeaky. The other, a middle-aged housewife working undercover for the FBI. Identified by police as Sarah Jean Moore. The story of one strange and violent summer, this season on the new podcast, Rip Current. Hear episodes of Rip Current early and completely ad-free and receive exclusive bonus content by subscribing to iHeartTrue Crime Plus,

only on Apple Podcasts. Kay hasn't heard from her sister in seven years. I have a proposal for you. Come up here and document my project. All you need to do is record everything like you always do. Kay hasn't heard from her sister in seven years. I have a proposal for you. Come up here and document my project. All you need to do is record everything like you always do. What was that? That was live audio of a woman's nightmare.

Can Kay trust her sister, or is history repeating itself? There's nothing dangerous about what you're doing. They're just dreams. Dream Sequence is a new horror thriller from Blumhouse Television, iHeartRadio, and Realm. Listen to Dream Sequence on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. On the Bechdelcast, the questions asked if movies have women in them. Are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands, or do they have individualism? The patriarchy's effin' vast.

Start changing it with the Bechdel cast. Hello and welcome to the Bechdel cast. My name is Caitlin Durante. My name's Jamie Loftus. And we host a podcast about how the representation of women in movies is usually not very good. We've been hosting that podcast. We've been doing it. Hell yeah.

So we use the Bechdel test as a jumping off point for the discussion of how women are portrayed in a certain movie. Bechdel test for all you rubes, of course, being the media metric invented by cartoonist Alison Bechdel that requires that for our purposes that two female identifying characters with names talk about something other than a man in conversation for just two lines of dialogue. Should we demonstrate this? Oh, yeah. We haven't done this in a while. We haven't done that in a while. Okay. I don't know why.

Hey, Jamie. Hey, Caitlin. What is your favorite? Oh, my God. I forget how to not talk about men oh no okay what no I'm gonna keep going okay what

what's your favorite Meryl Streep movie how do you have to think about this Jamie oh is this a transition I thought it was a serious question no but how are you not remembering not only your favorite meryl streep movie but your favorite oh my god oh my god doubt

doubt is my favorite oh my god i'm having a meltdown oh my god doubt is my favorite movie i can't i don't know i'm very sick i was like julia favorite movie. I can't, I don't know. I'm very sick. I was like, Julia and Julia, that can't be right. It's all right. We all have a lapse in our memories. Whoa, I just lost sight of who I am. Remember, I think it was the Pulp Fiction episode that I kept accidentally calling her Meryl Streep.

Yes. Yes, that was a fun slippy. What a day. Can't believe, forgot, doubt. Jesus Christ. That's embarrassing. It's okay. I forgive you. I gotta be vulnerable on those airwaves, baby. People need it.

So anyway, that passed. We're talking about Meryl Streep. Streep. And her movies. So that passes the back-to-back test. We're taking another talking about Meryl Streep. Streep. Streep. And her movies. So that passes the back-to-test. We're taking another cruise down Meryl Street today. Yeah. With another street fave. All you street heads out there.

All you people pounding Meryl Street. Pounding the pavement of, that sounds pornographic. Of Meryl Street. Today we're talking about the Devil Wears Prada. That's right. 2006 joint. Uh-huh. To join us in our discussion is our guest today is a writer, editor, and co-host of

Backtalk podcast on Bitch Media. It's Amy Lam. Hi, guys. Hi. Hey, welcome. Thanks for being here. I am very, very, very excited to talk about this movie. What is your history, your relationship? Why did you pick this movie?

So I had read the book and I don't even remember how I got the book. I was living and teaching in China and it was like a week where there was no school. So I just took this like spontaneous trip with some other teachers. And somehow I got the book. And I really don't remember how I got the book. So I was like. Sometimes that book just appears in your hands. It's a first item.

I'm wondering if it was like at the guest house we were staying at. I just have a terrible memory. But so I was reading the book because I was also trying to avoid the people I was traveling with. So it was one of those things where I read it and the book isn't that good okay but I studied journalism as my undergrad so I was like one of those people where I'm like maybe one day I'm going to be in this media world so I need to read it like I had known that like the woman who wrote it I'm forgetting her name. Lauren Weisberger. Yes, she had worked at Vogue and this was supposed to be based off of Anna Wintour. So I was just like, ooh, let me read about this like boss lady or whatever.

And also because my very first job out of school, I don't know how much to say, but I had worked for somebody who had these vibes and it was at a meaty-ish place. Like, she had these types of vibes where, like, one example is everybody came to the office at, like, 10 or 9.30, but I had to come in half an hour early, just me, so that I could turn on her computer. Like, this is back in the day where, like, people... Ew! Like, so that I had to go into her office and, like, push the power button. And when I did it, she would holler at me because I wasn't in her office. I was, like, in the hall. Yeah. She would be like, hey, she would be like hey man i knew i was like fuck i forgot to turn on her computer so like so i had that experience and then so i wanted to read this book about another like

weird boss woman yeah and i read the book and i was just like this is like a really fun read even though the writing wasn't like amazing yeah and i think i read it in anticipation because i knew the movie was out because i wanted to watch movie and this is one of those cases where the movie is way better than the book. Oh, is it? Yeah. I haven't read the book. So the movie is just like so much more fun and like lush and interesting to look at, especially if you kind of enjoy fashion in some way. So I was living in China, so I had bought the bootleg version of it for like a dollar or something. Yeah. And I would watch it on repeat because I lived in this like very cold apartment

where like there's nothing to do over the winter time. It was like always 40 degrees. And I would just like have a space heater like frying my legs while I would watch it over and over again on my laptop. So I watched it on repeat forever

and then I didn't watch it for a long, long time because this was like 2007, 2008-ish. And recently I just started watching it again and again. And anticipation of doing this podcast. But also just, it's just so fun. But I think watching it now with like a fresh pair of eyes, you're just like, wow, this movie would be so different

if it was made now. In like this media landscape or whatever. Yeah, it's wild. I mean, it's only 12 years old. But watching it back, you're just like, whoa, there is a lot of stuff that... This movie, watching it this time around was like a very interesting mixed bag because and I am very attached to it. I saw this movie when it came out in 2006.

I would have been in like middle school and it was the perfect movie to see in middle school. I'd also read the book where I would like go to and I was in middle school to go to the public library and then go to like the ladies fiction section so I was like hidden Meg Cabot books but the ones for adults not the princess diaries and then I read all the Sophie Kinsella uh shopaholic books which were trash garbage as were the movies uh but this was I read this book too and i totally agree with you amy i think that the movie is so much the book is like so much fun to read and you can like zip through it because it's so that if and i read it in literally middle school but even then i was like oh this is very like catty and pointed and it's just sort of this like veiled hate letter to Anna Wintour, which is fun to read. But the movie definitely, I think, removes itself from the direct nature of the book.

Yeah. So I saw it with my mom and some friends in middle school. We all loved it. Revisited it. It's like a comfort food movie. I could have it on in the back i think i've had it on the background of doing other stuff multiple times since then yeah it's a fun movie it is i find that a lot of movies that i either have to revisit or watch for the first time for

this podcast feel like a chore to get through and i didn't really feel like that for this movie i was like actually enjoying myself when i was watching it. That's not to say it's not without its problems. But I was like, okay, this is fun. I saw it for the first time. I think it was around the time that I was working in a similar professional scenario where I had a boss. So many veiled descriptions here. Yeah. But I was living in New york city ever heard of it i was working as an assistant at a literary management company i didn't know you did that uh-huh yeah that was like my first real job out of college uh which of course i did go to and then i did go to uh grad school for a master's degree in screenwriting from boston university um so i was working at this job and I was an assistant to this guy who was very emotionally abusive to his employees.

He was racist. He was homophobic. He was sexist. He constantly undermined my work and my value. He would make mistakes and then blame me for them and then yell at me for them and stuff like that. So like this is like such a horrible, toxic work environment. And watching this movie kind of like triggered some mild PTSD that I have about that job. But I still enjoyed the movie all the same. But yeah, I think I watched this movie around the same time.

So that would have been in like 2009-ish that I saw the movie for the first time when I was working at this job and I was like yeah this used to be my life but yeah so that's my history with it I only saw it the one time and then uh until re-watching it for this episode shall I do the recap yeah I've I didn't I I'm so interested to hear everyone's repressed assistant memories. This is fascinating. I was wondering if I was going to have any Playboy flashbacks when I was walking, because I've also worked at a print magazine. But if you're working at a magazine that is failing and no longer culturally relevant, the pressure is lower. It's just kind of sad.

There's just alcohol everywhere. So no PTSD ties for me, unfortunately. All right, let's recap. Great. So we meet. I'm left out. We're all part of this. We meet Andy Sachs.

That's Anne Hathaway's character she interviews for a job to be the second assistant of miranda priestly she's a recent brown grad she's an aspiring journalist she's got northwestern sorry no excuse me lauren weisberger was a recent oh god okay there's so many details of this story where lauren weisberger changes one thing and she's like it's not me andy has a middle part so we know she is not a fashion icon um coded anne hathaway language yeah and miranda priestly meryl street street of course yes um she is the editor-in-chief of Runway, a high-end fashion magazine. Similar to one we may know.

Yeah. I wonder what it could be. I don't know. And her whole thing is that she is a bitch. That's kind of her thing. That's kind of her thing. She's very high maintenance. She's very demanding.

She wears scarves. She wears scarves. A big part of her thing. She's very high maintenance. She's very demanding. She wears scarves. She wears scarves. A big part of her identity. Hermes scarves. Not just any scarves. Yeah, I don't even know what that means. It's like these French, is it French? Yes.

French silk scarf. Yeah, which is a play on Anna Wintour always wears gigantic sunglasses that make her look like a bug. The wild part about when Andy comes in to the interview for the job she's like oh it was like the temp agency center yeah she's like it was between this very glamorous like high budget magazine and like auto trader or something like that and i was like bitch really like also don't say that in the interview right there are so the way she conducts herself in that interview is very strange the way everyone conducts herself in that interview is very strange.

The way everyone conducts themselves in that interview. But it's like, imagine having the gall to go into an interview for, whether you care about the industry or not, like, a sought-after job and just be like, I don't know what this is. I don't know. I think I'm too good for it. And who are you? Anyways, I'd like the job. Never heard of it.'s like wow i was on emily blunt's side for that because only once is like why did you hire her i was like yeah no one knows yeah so basically miranda takes a chance on her because andy makes a case for herself she's like

yeah i don't fit in here but i'm smart and i learn fast and i'm a hard worker and I'll do a good job. So Miranda hires her. We've met Emily played by Emily Blunt. And she is similarly like ruthless and kind of dismissive of Andy. And she's like the first assistant. So she gets the more important responsibilities and she gets to go to Paris for a week with Miranda and she lives and dies for it. We learn about the book, which is like a mock-up of the current issue, which Miranda looks at and gives notes on every night.

Hard copy. This is like, shockingly, I don't... Magazines are weird because it's like print is dead, right? And it also was dead in 2006. Yeah, slightly less dead. But still pretty dead. I do have to interject a little. Because Bitch Media also makes a print magazine four times a year.

It's a quarterly magazine. And it is, I mean, it's very expensive. So I think that's why it's super dead. It is super dead. And like Bitch Media is like reader funded. So like we're always doing the annoying kind of um donate to us so we can keep printing this magazine campaigns but yeah like we do we do have to do a book it's so that you can print it out and look at it and see what

it looks like when it's gonna go to print but the wild thing that i think about andy is that like she's like what's a book right i'm like girl you went to northwestern you guys never like printed things up to prove before you print them you know so like there are these moments where it's just like I'm just like why did you write Andy like this it's so infuriating yeah there's like certain things that

if she were yeah like if she were a journalism major she would know about a mock up but at every magazine I've ever the book is still a thing it's still a yeah there used to be this man who our old editor-in-chief at playboy would drive the book to hugh hefner's freaky mansion every day at 4 p.m and he would have to be like do this and then he'd have to drive the book back it was like

a whole thing I'm just like can we teach Hugh Hefner how to use email and the answer is like no you can't this is weird shuttling that's the thing with this movie is that it's like such an important responsibility to deliver the book that uh normally it would be the second assistant's job but until miranda trusts andy to not be like a dangerous person uh she she's not gonna do it um get rid of that middle part and then we'll talk we meet nigel which is stanley tucci the tuch if you will the The Tuch. The Tuch is in rare form in this movie. Yes. The Tuch, I mean, his character is all over the place. But I love when Tuch gets work. Which is a lot. He's in so many movies.

He's not wanting for work. It's not like he's struggling. Tuch, okay, Tuch and Alfred Molina both delivered killer performances in Feud last year. Well, good for them. for them i mean tooch was nominated alfred as we know was snubbed so but you know what alfred was on our podcast so who's the real winner here so andy is having a really hard time with the job at first because miranda is a devil who wears prada

i love i i love that stupid ridiculous shot of her getting out of the car and then they zoom in on that bag that she's carrying yeah he's like just in case you're not sure it's just it's so it's like such an obnoxious filming device, but I loved it still. I thought it was fun. I like the things that this movie chooses to knock you over the head with, I'm usually okay with. I'm like, you know what? She is a devil and she does wear Prada. There's no way around it um meanwhile andy has a boyfriend named

nate and an entourage who is vince whatever the fuck his name is in entourage a show that i unfortunately did watch six seasons of yeah i'm embarrassed about it no we all have our we all have our things that are dark um and she's got her friends and they're all like, wow, your job sounds crazy. Oh, my God. Tracy Toms is one of the friends from Rent. Yes. Always criminally underused in any supporting role she's given. She's great.

We don't even learn her name until like toward the end of the movie. The very end when there's like a conflict. She's like, Lily. Hey. You're like, oh. Oh oh your name is lily also the guy that the my crush from mad men uh is in the friend group too rich summer yeah yeah he's a first i i will never watch mad men again but he was the cutest he was kind of like a beta yeah in mad men right he's a thick beta boy he's like a thick a thick horny beta i guess thick horny beta yeah that

about i think that's like your new line of merch just for thick horny bands. And then, yeah, there is that scene where Miranda gives this big monologue about Cerulean. It's kind of the iconic monologue of the movie. Besides when she says, I'm the devil and I wear Prada. Which is what everyone remembers. I didn't see this. Oh, really? It happens in like four different scenes. It happens a lot.

Guys, what version am I watching? It's in that shot where you see her for the first time. She looks to camera. I'm the devil. I'm the devil. Wow. I'm watching the wrong version. Bootleg version.

You're going to get the double bootleg version. There's a lot of Meryl Streep breaking the fourth wall. So then Andy's starting to get the hang of the job, but she is also still making mistakes. And she's like, why doesn't Miranda appreciate my work? She goes to Nigel for advice. And then we get one of the most intense anti-millennial tirades I've ever heard in a movie. That scene

bugged me. I mean, and this was like 2006 is like the beginning of like, you all think you're so special, don't you? You need praise for everything. And it's just like, she just wants to you know, she's making like $2 an hour and is

being screamed at. And he's like, yeah, you yeah you need to like it's like an old man saying like i had to walk five miles in the snow to be whipped by meryl streep and like that sort of we'll get to that but that whole vibe was like oh this is like early millennial hatred in movies he also says which is a line that gets repeated a number of times in the movie but it's like a million girls would kill to have your job and that's something my old boss said to me regularly when i was like i'd be doing a good job and he's like you know what you million girls would kill to have the job you have right now it's

like no they wouldn't this job sucks it's from the book because in all over the book, I don't know if you remember, but it says multiple characters say that to her. And so that's one of the things that definitely carried over into the movie. That makes sense. Very gaslighting work environment. But that seems like a reflection of at least her experience. And it sounds like a lot of us. Yeah, it's a way to be like, hey, you're disposable. So if you don't do a better job. Yeah a way to be like hey you're disposable so if you don't

do a better job like yeah like I can be mean to you and if someone's mean to you don't say anything or we'll just be mean to someone else

yeah exactly you know listening to you guys say this I'm like oh my god that is fucked up cause like so when I read the book and I watched the movie I was like

yeah a million girls would die for that job Andy do a better job I think I got gas lit well the trick is like he's probably not factually incorrect like there would be someone who would take her job in a second but just like the standard of like yeah if you want to be in an entry-level position you have to be flogged like yeah it's just like take the abuse that we give you brutal yeah okay so then he's like okay i'll give you some some cute clothes andy and so she

gets a an off-screen makeover but a makeover nonetheless middle part nowhere to be found it's gone she's got bangs now all of that i love that like there's a little this movie's just old enough that you need to listen to the music cue to figure out if it's a cute outfit or not because it's not a cute outfit now like the outfit andy walks into the office with it's like this weird like gossip girl private school jacket you're like what is this but the music is like i was like oh i guess this is good it's chanel obviously i still don't know anything about fashion which according to this movie i should just fucking go and live in a hole but i i still can't tell if outfits are good or not so

i don't know anyway so um so she shows up to work she's looking all sleek and high fashion emily's like oh my god she goes oh my god god even miranda is impressed and then andy's like giving her friends presents she's talking about fashion stuff they're like wow you drank the kool-aid i. And then after she gives them these amazing presents, right? Yeah, her friends are like, they don't get it. Those scenes, yeah, I'm excited to talk about those scenes because her friends, because she is being weird. And has that ever happened to either of you where you get a new job or you get really into something and then your friends are kind of like, oh, yeah jamie's really into this fucking weird shit right now like when i don't know me every day with

paddington but like has it ever caused an actual like i don't know i've worked for not like real tension no freaky oh okay i've had experiences like that before oh sorry I already apologized for it Jamie I actually have a bone to pick with you no I just like my my cousins didn't like when I was going through a phase in my career where I was when I was butt chugging on a camera rift. Were they concerned about your health? No. If they had been concerned about my health, I would have been like, oh, it's, I am too. But they weren't.

They were just like, not a good look. What if you want to run for office? And I was like, screw you guys. Miranda's calling. And then I left the table anyways relatable scene yes of course and then Andy goes to an event and she meets uh Christian Thompson flesh-colored hair writer whose work she admires is played by Simon Baker flesh-colored hair. A blonde adult male. She starts to get the hang of the job.

She finally does something well enough. I think it's like a Harry Potter-based plot point that gets her for Miranda to trust her to deliver the book. She considers quitting for a brief moment, but then Christian Thompson saves the day with the Harry Potter book. It's causing a rift with entourage. Yeah. So their, their relationship is tense.

And then lately Emily has been making a lot of mistakes at work. So Miranda is like, Hey Andy, I want you to go to Paris with me instead of Emily. And then like Andy has to tell Emily this, it's like this whole thing. She gets hit by a taxi. She and Nate break up and then she goes to Paris and kisses a fucking creep.

We'll talk about him in a moment. Oh, yeah. He's like, you want to get published in The New Yorker? Give me a little kiss. I'm like, no. My favorite part is when they're in Paris walking around together, and Andy says, like, I never understood what it was about paris but it's so beautiful and he's like yeah what is this scene yeah um and then andy learns that

they're going to replace miranda as editor-in-chief with a younger woman named jacqueline and she goes to tell miranda about it and she's like, it's fine. Don't worry. And then it turns out Miranda, to save her job, she sells out Nigel, who thought he was going to be made partner of this new fashion company. But instead, like, Miranda shoves Jacqueline into that position so that she can keep her job.

And then Annie's like, what you did to Nigel, I could never do something like that. And Miranda's like, honey, you already did. And she's like, you're right. I suck. And then she walks away. She quits her job. She throws her phone in the fountain.

She throws her sidekick into a fountain. You're like, yes, 2006. And then she gets a job at, I don't exactly know what magazine it's meant to be. I think it's a newspaper. It's a newspaper. OK. And then she gets a job at, I don't exactly know what magazine it's meant to be. I think it's a newspaper. It's a newspaper. Okay. And then she. And then Nate tries to get back together with her.

It's unclear. But it seems like it doesn't happen. Because he's like, maybe we'll work something. Maybe we'll figure something out. And she's like, yeah, maybe we will. And then that's the end of that. But he's moving to Boston. Right.

Yeah. But then he just said, like, the way he phrases it is wild because it's like she is apologizing to him and she owes him an apology. And he's like, yeah, it's fine. I got a job in Boston. And she's like, oh, wow. And he's like, so I guess we're moving there. And it's like there should be a discussion.

Right. Because he's like, there's cheese in Boston and bread. So I can still make you bread cheese sandwiches there. That's what they're called. But then she gets a job. Right, she gets a job. It's unclear. Who knows?

But anyway, that's pretty much the end of the movie. Let's take a quick break, and then we'll come right back to discuss. Daphne Caruana Galizia was a Maltese investigative journalist who on October 16, 2017, was murdered. There are crooks everywhere you look now. The situation is desperate. My name is Manuel Delia. I am one of the hosts of Crooks Everywhere, a podcast that unhurts the plot to murder a one-woman Wikileaks. Daphne exposed the culture of crime and corruption that were turning her beloved country into a mafia state. And she paid the ultimate price.

Listen to Crooks everywhere on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. To listen to new episodes one week early and 100% ad-free, subscribe to the iHeart True Crime Plus channel, available exclusively on Apple Podcasts. I'm Carrie Champion, and this is Season 4 of Naked Sports, where we live at the intersection of sports and culture. Up first, I explore the making of a rivalry,

Kaitlyn Clark versus Angel Reese. I know I'll go down in history. People are talking about women's basketball just because of one single game. Every great player needs a foil. I ain't really near them. Why is that? I just come here to play basketball every single day, and that's what I focus on. From college to the pros,

Clark and Reese have changed the way we consume women's sports. Angel Reese is a joy to watch. She is unapologetically black. I love her. What exactly ignited this fire? Why has it been so good for the game? And can the fanfare surrounding

these two supernovas be sustained? This game is only going to get better because the talent is getting better. This new season will cover all things sports and culture. Listen to Naked Sports on the Black Effect Podcast Network, iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The Black Effect Podcast Network is sponsored by Diet Coke. This summer, the nation watched as the Republican nominee for president was the target of two assassination attempts, separated by two months. These events were mirrored nearly 50

years ago, when President Gerald Ford faced two attempts on his life in less than three weeks. President Gerald R. Ford came stunningly close to being the victim of an assassin today. These are the only two times we know of that a woman has tried to assassinate a U.S. president. One was the protege of infamous cult leader Charles Manson. I always felt like Lynette was kind of his right-hand woman. The other, a middle-aged housewife working undercover for the FBI in a violent revolutionary underground. Identified by police as Sarah Jean Moore. The story of one strange and violent summer.

This is Rip Current. Available now with new episodes every Thursday. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And we're back. Guess what? What? There's been three sequels written to the devil wears prada goodness which uh between amy and myself we agree was not a well-written book in the first place

was mainly a hit because it's a hit piece on anna wintour yeah uh but lauren weisberger she's still grinding them out in the oeuvre there's the devil wears prada there is last night at chateau marmont wow there's revenge wears prada and most recently there is when life gives you lulu lemons okay just published last year you know i love a good six copies i love a good play on words so i appreciate that and also i respect the working writer. I love a working writer. I don't love a book called When Life Gives You Lulu Lemons.

Do you make Lulu lemonade? I mean, I guess we have to buy and find out. So where should we start? There is so much to talk about in this movie. And a lot of shades of gray in terms of how everything is dealt with. I don't know.

Where would you like to start? Let me point out in the very opening shots of the movie, like over the credits, we are seeing disembodied female body parts putting on bras, putting on underwear stockings and then it becomes a like one of these girls is not like the other montage where it's like all these conventionally beautiful women putting on all their like fancy lingerie and their makeup and their like skirts and high heels and we contrast that with Anne Hathaway's character who is dressed in a way that's you know perhaps not quite as hyper feminine as these other shots we're seeing dare I say she's not like the a way that's, you know, perhaps not quite as hyper feminine as these other shots we're seeing. Dare I say she's not like the other girls? That's exactly what the movie is saying.

And then it's like the other women are like counting out seven almonds for breakfast. And then she's eating like a bagel and cream cheese. The others are taking like taxis or town cars. She takes the subway. So it's like very much like a... It's like setting up a working girl kind of character for her i think it's still like this this movie comes out five years after the princess diaries and anne hathaway is still we're still suspending our disbelief to be like

what an uggo like jesus christ why why is this where anne hathaway is typecast there are moments pre andy getting rid of her middle part uh and wearing less layers that it seems like it's referencing the princess diaries in in terms of like how people treat her and all this it's just i'm just like man i'm tired of having to pretend Anne Hathaway is ugly I don't have any more belief to suspend right and it's when she starts to change her look that that coincides story-wise with her getting better at her job and and whenever she goes to Nigel to be like what can I do to be taken more seriously here her idea is to dress better which makes sense it is a fashion magazine but like that's it seems like that's the only idea she has it's not like

how else can I be better at the administrative aspects of my job like sure and she we do see her improve in those ways but her main idea to like be better at her job is to look better but i think i wonder if that's like a game she has to play to earn the respect of miranda so that miranda doesn't treat her like shit as much yeah because i think when miranda does see that she puts effort into dressing better then she gives her a little bit more respect and actually starts calling her by her name yeah you know i think that's really telling when she does decide to and it was and it wasn't after she did like heroic things job wise but it's because she noticed that she dressed yeah yeah right like she's not doing necessarily a better job she just looks different doing it yes and that's what garners the respect and then real quick back to

the opening sequence where like i was thinking those women you were seeing who are like putting on all like the high fashion items would be the other women women who are interviewing for that job and that might be what's implied but we don't see those women again so they're basically just on screen so that we can one see their like disembodied female body parts and to demonstrate how andy is not like the other girls so like that's the only function I kind of disagree with that yeah I think that a lot of I mean the first like 10 minutes of this movie are so tight in terms of like you get everything you need to know I thought that that was also just conveying a theme of like presenting you with the runway woman type of like here's an example of a woman who uses this magazine as her bible it's like i think on one side of the screen

we're seeing people who presumably subscribe to runway or at least the ideas that runway is selling and uh so i i think that there's enough function and And I'm, you know, always for calling out when like women's bodies are being used in like weird crops and like sexualized crops. But I didn't think that that was what that sequence was trying to do. It didn't seem like they were trying to sexualize it. It is kind of like an oversimplification of like some women be like this, other women be like this. But at least to me tied into like the theme sure it was effective in demonstrating that like type of woman and stuff like that and the strange thing was that like i think there are at least two or three different

women of color in that opening montage and then lily you know what i mean for the rest of the movie so they were like i think they are used as props in this way to differentiate Andy from the other types of women. Like you're saying, runway-ish women. But it's interesting that they casted women who very much didn't look like her in terms of women of color, but then didn't plant more women of color throughout the world. Runway or just New York City or people she interacted with. This is one of those movies that takes place in a New York City where only white people live and work. And I bet that when they casted the Lily character,

they were like, we need a person of color in this. That's what it feels like. Yeah, it really does feel like they just slotted her in. Because I was trying to think about the representation of people of color in this movie, and I was like, wow, look at all these women of color. And just the opening moments, which is really, really interesting. But they don't speak.

They're just there to be looked at. So that was a thing where I was thinking, what are they trying to do here? And I don't really have an answer. I was just pontificating on it. Yeah, no, that's important to note. And especially with Lily's character, where she is so shoehorned into the storyline because we don't know anything about her. Caitlin, like we were saying, we don't know her name until very late in the movie. And she's, I thought, even like even worse than a classic like best friend in a movie role.

Where at least most best friend in a movie roles, you know at least something about them. You know like where they work. How do they know each other? How long have they known each other? How do they feel about literally anything other than what's happening to the protagonist? But like Lily is there to provide exposition and like besides her boyfriend, who's Nate. Is that right? Nate.

But to like provide some sort of like you've changed. Like that's the only reason she's there. We do know her job vaguely, which is that she is an artist who has a gallery show. New York. Right. Those two women in the job have the only two jobs that women are allowed to have in movies, especially when you live in New York City, which is you work at a gallery or you work at a magazine. So I mean there's like a lot of

boring stuff to explore in that friendship. And I think they've known each other. She said like I've known you for 16 years so we know that they must have known each other as like high school students or like kids or something. But it's so funny that you guys are bringing up that like there's only two types of jobs that you can have there because even her job

served as a plot point because it didn't make sense when they go to that gallery opening. Lily's like, hey, I designed this to like, you got to go to the back and start from the back and go to the front, which makes zero sense in terms of design of experiencing a gallery show. Who goes to the back to work their way to the front? But it's a plot thing because it makes Andy go to the back and then Christian meets her there and then they're like, ooh,

they're having their secret rendezvous and then he kisses her and it's supposed to look sneaky. But she could not have said that and made her gallery

show look ridiculous. It could have just been like, hey, have a look around and then Andy could have just been in the back, right? But even when they're giving

Lily an interesting job, they made her look like a dummy just so that like we could usher usher them and block them into the back of the gallery yeah no sense rude the lily character i mean the movie fails her in every way yeah and such a i just love tracy tom so much she's great well we can talk about the fact that this movie is one of the guiltiest examples of a movie that like portrays the trope of a career woman who is successful and in a leadership role in her professional life, she is a fucking bitch. Yeah. There's a lot of second... I feel like we've been coming up against all these

very strong second wave feminism cautionary tales recently when I was doing some background. And I will say that I think Miranda's character is presented in the movie, I don't think in the book, but presented in the movie with more nuance and backstory than you get for most of these characters who, like, prior to this movie are used strictly as, like, if you think about like Glenn Close in Fatal Attraction is like this successful career woman and her lack of like a heteronormative perfect life drives her insane into murder and there's another movie that I don't know why I saw it a bunch of times when I was younger but a movie called Working Girl sure came out in 1988. Sigourney Weaver is the mean lady boss in that, and she steals an idea from her secretary, who's Melanie Griffith.

It's a similar stock character whose background goes completely unexplored. I don't know. The Miranda conversation's tricky, but this movie attempts to address some of those tropes, but it doesn't, I don't know. The Miranda conversation is tricky, but this movie attempts to address some of those tropes, but it doesn't. I don't know. It doesn't effectively comment on or subvert quite enough for me. But I do think it's interesting that, you know, if you look at especially like the Glenn Close character, usually a woman with ambition has to shoulder some horrible consequence of that ambition and that's like one choice with the Miranda character that I thought was like cool and interesting is that Miranda is horrible she fucks Stanley Tucci over she doesn't apologize for it and she suffers no

consequences which is you know very corporate feminism take on that but you don't usually see that with like an ambitious woman she's usually punished by the story that's true and we do see that line where andy is talking about miranda and says something like yeah she's tough but if miranda were a man no one would notice anything about her except how great she is at her job so that is like one of the few attempts the movie makes at being like see we get it feminism right which is something yeah i agree that like it's it's hard to like place miranda in a way like like we said earlier i was just like maybe i'm just like a a forever gaslit person but

like i was just like miranda's just really good at her job you know and like yeah she has like her really bitchy moments and but but even her bitchy moments are like so beautiful. Like, you know, that montage of her like slamming her purse and her coat on the desk. I'm like, I will just watch that montage sometimes. I will just Google it and like look up the montage. Like, and I'll just watch it because I'm like, yes. Like I look at the outfits she's wearing.

I look at what Andy is wearing. I look at the reactions. I look at what she she's I want to hear again what she's asking for she's just asking for like vague shit like where's that piece of paper I had in my hand I'm like yeah where is that piece of paper but like I think that for somebody of her caliber and like the job that she does sometimes like you just have so much shit going on you just can't keep track of everything but like because it's being delivered through a woman and not a man like i think we have like feelings about that because we expect women to act a specific way right so i do feel like yeah like she's not a very kind boss a lot of the times she can be really hard to work for but she's the devil who wears prada she's a prada

wearing devil just in case you forgot i am the devil who wears Prada. But I wonder if this is just on the spectrum of women who work and this is how they behave. Maybe she's on the far end of a really not great boss, but it's just one of the portrayals of women who work. And if we think that women bosses who are like that are just bitchy and awful then like that will always just be a trope but i just kind of lay her on that spectrum because like there are moments where i think i think it's a merrill thing that gave her this like nuance where you know like when she answered her phone um her daughter called she's like oh hey bubsy i'm like oh my god she's a mom yeah you know or like even

when she fucked sally and tucci over for that job i was like she's saving herself because like the industry is ageist or like the industry doesn't want to pay her what she's worth right so i'm sorry stanley but like also stanley is a man like he doesn't have to work for her if he doesn't want to right like if he wanted to go off on his own i'm sure he could ask permission be like yo you kind of fuck me over can i leave she's i think she's reasonable enough to be like yes which to some extent stanley knows because when it happens he just sits there and is like my time will come and it's it's a sad moment yeah it's a difficult moment for that character but you're totally right yeah it's like she is saving

her ass because no one else is going to like no one is going to come to bat for an older woman trying to survive in a very high pressure environment, which I think, you know, you see proven over and over. Right. And one of the things that doesn't get talked about enough where we see the trope of professional women in high status jobs being portrayed as being these difficult, heinous women. But what gets ignored is that if they are perhaps acting that way, sometimes, it probably has something to do with the fact that women in order to be taken seriously in the professional sphere and to climb the ladder, they have to work harder than their

male counterpart. They might have to be kind of more ruthless and just like any number of things to be taken seriously because, yeah, the industries are sexist. They are ageist. And for her to behave this way is probably a direct response to the way that women are treated in every aspect of their life. Right. It's another thing that this movie avoided for me. It's not a trope that really existed as much in 2006. I think it's like a slowly emerging one that I don't know if I'm going to articulate it right. But this sort of avoids the Miranda character avoids the tropes of like a girl boss character where the girl boss trope is something that drives me nuts whether it's like someone perform being a performative business person or in in a in a piece of narrative fiction where it's like a woman who is a capitalist

at her core even if you know she's she's good at her job she's a business owner she's a capitalist but then posits it as like but i'm like one of you it's like cheryl sandberg is like peak girl boss where it's like someone who is doing a bad thing but is treated like oh no but she's actually like yes queen you know and and and she she uses like the veil of feminism exactly like me being empowered empowers you and i don't think miranda does that miranda's just a person working a job and she has like self-awareness because like there's that scene where like her and mr priestly are gonna divorce and she's like doesn't have any makeup on and i think that the credit to how nuanced miranda, is to Miss Street.

But, you know, she's like, her face is bare. She's just like, oh, the tabloids are going to eat this up. Like, they should pay me because they write so many pieces about me. She's like, there's so much self-awareness there. She knows what she's projecting, but fuck it, because she needs to make this excellent publication. And she knows what she's doing. Yeah, and she's not

like a faker the the way that a lot of people present themselves in similar roles which takes a certain amount of like conviction and courage to be like no i'm selling shit i know how to do it better than anyone so pay me for doing that and and not like you're saying like covering it with a veil of like no i'm for all women it's like no miranda is here to do a job she's here to do a job and there's a lot of forces that are going to make it more difficult for her to do that job right but like i think i wonder then if like because you know feminism corporatized feminism or marketplace feminism is so trendy now so i think that's why like girl boss tropes are like flourishing yeah but if it was as trendy then because like feminism was still very much like a four-letter word you know like just even 10 years ago which is so wild to think about yeah but if it wasn't i wonder if what would

have happened to the miranda character i i know well yeah i mean that's just like what if i don't know i mean i guess how do people view annaintour right now? Because it does seem like most women there's I would imagine some pressure right now to for women working in high levels of business to put on that mask. And that's not to say that it's not at least sincerely held in part, but it's just I don't know. Corporate feminism freaks me the fuck out of like, we think you're beautiful. Buy this soap. Also, we're waging war in Myanmar. Sorry. Like that sort of like.

Whoa, who's selling that soap? Sheryl Sandberg. Sheryl Sandberg. She's the scariest person alive. But I wonder if this movie came out today, if that would be sort of addressed. But there's not. I mean, it's weird any any manner of like outright feminist statements are strictly made by andy and are usually

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Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Amy, going back to a scene that you were talking about really briefly, where Miranda is talking about her impending divorce. So that's an example that we see in a movie where it's a character who is a professional, successful woman, but her personal life is in shambles basically which is perhaps sometimes a realistic portrayal especially when it's you know the man the husband who resents the fact that his wife his wife is successful and you know feels threatened by that or emasculated by that or whatever because it's a really subtle moment in the movie but whenever andy is delivering the book to miranda's house for the first time

and like was like yeah it's a good idea to go upstairs and she overhears a conversation where miranda's husband is saying something like oh you, people are looking at me in the restaurant thinking he's waiting for her yet again, which shows that he is threatened by the fact that like what people think of him. Yeah. So on one hand, it's like, yeah, you see this, what may be a realistic portrayal of like a man being threatened by his wife's success his wife's success but then you also have to see a woman who is successful in her profession uh have her personal life be compromised basically so it i don't really quite know how to feel about it for the most part it worked for me for the most part, it worked for me. For the most part. I mean, partially because this movie has the benefit of getting to be like, well, it's technically based on Anna Wintour. And a lot of that personal life stuff is adapted from Anna Wintour's life with two failed marriages, two kids trying to balance motherhood and and the reason i liked seeing i mean just learning anything about a character like miranda's personal life in a way that doesn't make her completely tragic in a way that might

have been easy the easy choice of like well she's so good at her job but look her personal life is difficult and instead of leaving it at that we go back to her job and watch her be really fucking good at her job and ruthless in her job again so there's like some nuance presented i don't know it there is a weird like halfwayness of implying that like well her personal life is suffering in this very specific way but then i'm like i guess if you had shown like and she's actually an incredible mother and no one credit like that would have felt very hollow and disingenuous as well because of course and this is kind of implied about her a number of times there is still this expectation of Miranda to like be a mother that is not usually put on male professionals at that level. They're like,

oh, well, isn't there a nanny? Isn't there a mom that's taking care of the kids? But she's still expected to have the same level of affection and dotingness that a stereotypical mother did, which is, again, there's a lot of stuff that feels halfway addressed. I think for the thing about their marriage ending, in a way i i kind of not appreciated it but like i think it spoke to this notion that like oh we can have it all like you know like what's that second wave of feminism whichever waiver that we think that like women were being told like you can go to work and you can have a family yeah etc etc and and like i think that like our generation of women is like no you guys are you guys are fucking tired.

You fucking are miserable. You divorce your partners because it's really hard to do this. And some of us are childless or some of us like have kids and don't work because it's that's why people have wives. That's why men have wives so that they can have a job. I often say to my partner, I'm like, I wish I had a fucking wife. So like they can do all this shit. Just just even like sometimes I'll like I'll give him like, they can do all this shit. Just, just even like, sometimes I'll like, I'll give him like,

you know, rub his feet. I'm like, I wish I had a fucking wife to rub my feet because he doesn't do it good. You know what I mean? I can't have it all either.

But I'm saying like, in that moment, it made me think like, yes, like she's really good at her job and it can be in sacrifice of her personal life, but she chose it.

I think that's what, in the end, like feminism is about. Like, whatever you choose. And in that scene, she's not that sad that the marriage ended like if you hear what she says she's sad at how it's going to affect her kids yeah yeah she says i don't care what anybody writes about me but my girls it's so unfair to my girls right so and i think that was like you know the scripts way or miranda's way of saying like the job is way more important to her than her marriage but her kids are maybe like the number saying like the job is way more important to her than her

marriage but her kids are maybe like the number one yeah and I think that was important to point out and and I think it's it was necessary so that we're not thinking like a Miranda type of person can be who she is and then also have like a really great support system because it's maybe not completely realistic right yeah and I appreciated. I liked, I liked it. And it's like, there, the tropiness that I loved about like the only scene where Miranda's not wearing makeup and you're just like,

Oh, it's great. Jane Fonda does it all the time. And Grace and Frankie, I love it. Jane Fonda does this thing. And Grace, has anyone seen it?

Okay. In the first episode of grace and frankie where jane fonda apparently had some sort of wire around her head to hold her head on her skin yes her head falls off in the pilot episode i saw a beauty regimen of a caliber even i wasn't familiar of that, like, I don't know. I love Grace and Frankie. Jane Fonda has a wire around her head. Wow. Like to pull skin back. But it was a wire attached to her wig.

Good for her. Jane Fonda is a legend. I mean, even like when Meryl Streep's bare face, they do these close-ups on her face, and I'm like, girl, who is your doctor? Because good job. Or what is the wire you're wearing? Where's the wire? Yes, because, like, her skin like her skin's looking good and like it's very good skin i have a high def television i don't know if you guys have one night too no but like i was thinking like like she either has

a really good doctor or like some kind of like wire thing but like she looks magnificent in it and she can't go barefaced but like for us as viewers we're like oh my god so brave that like a woman with gray hair went bare faced you know like i'm a victim we're conditioned to think that way and we're conditioned to think wow she looks so good pause for her age and it's like no like she looks good yeah that's a way of like society feels that way too i think the movie like wants you to be like i don't know some mix of like either like wow she looks different or like wow she looks good like for her age i don't know that the movie is necessarily like this should be normalized like that i don't think that that's this that's not the intention vibe um but we all we like i'm having to undo a lot of conditioning where i like will catch myself thinking oh wow she looks really good

for her age but it's like no that's a horrible way to think because like we are conditioned to think that as women age they you know they lose their value and you know we have this standard of beauty that says that only young women can be considered attractive and like i'm having to like undo a lot of this thinking still shall we talk about andy yes let's talk about andy andy is an interesting and interesting character i right at the top we briefly talked about her interview but i've just never seen anyone succeed with such a flippant attitude towards the very powerful job they're applying to but you know she does um but she does there is there is like another a narrative for her too that is like trying to have it all and personal life suffers as a result that happens as well and it's weird it's like

the resolution to that is a little confusing to me where it's like she's trying to have it all, but then her friends and her boyfriend are like, you've changed, which she has. And then she decides, fuck it, I'm throwing my sidekick into the fountain. And then, I don't know, the ending is kind of ambiguous for her. Is she in a relationship? Does that what she wants? Like, we don't we still don't really know. But it didn't bother me too much. I think when the film came out, you know, like 10 years ago or whatever, I think we wanted to think that like they were still together and that those things were important. But I think that there are like new memes now when people talk about the movie where they're like, can we talk about how trash her boyfriend and friends were? Like they were not good. Like they were not a good support system.

No, they weren't. Who moves to New York City and thinks that they're going to get some amazing job right off the bat? Nobody does. This notion that she moved to New York City, she's struggling on a job, and all you guys do is poke fun at her.

There's shit on her. And almost risk her losing her job at one point when they throw her phone around when Miranda's calling. I was on Andy's side in that scene scene so i'm like you guys are being horrible there's also a moment early on where her friend doug um says something like oh miranda priestly is famous for being unpredictable and andy's like how do you know who she is and i don't and then doug says i'm actually a girl and then lily says that would explain a lot I don't. And then Doug says, I'm actually a girl. And then Lily says,

that would explain a lot. I don't know what you meant by that. So I guess it's implying, yeah, like only a woman would know who a fashion icon is. That's reductive. And then for Lily to say like, oh yeah,

that would explain a lot that you're a girl. Like that sounds weird. Some sort of weird gender phobic thing 2006 you know a lot of weird exchanges uh super producer sophie just also made the note that we do we do learn a little bit about andy's family life and and her when she goes to dinner with her dad there's's a very similar vibe of like, why aren't you working? I'm like, she's 22. What are you talking about? And we only know her dad, never meet her mom.

We don't meet her mom. We don't know what her vibe is. Mom gets mentioned, but yeah, we don't know anything about her mom. At least she's not a Disney princess. The mother's alive, but just never visible or addressed. Just not allowed to be, yeah, present. The only thing, I mean, one of the biggest things I remember about that scene is when he gives her a check. And she's just like, oh, you shouldn't have, but yes.

But also, like, it was no big deal. And I was like, oh, that's so, what a life. I know. I have never. I have really never. Because that must have been a check for, like, thousands of dollars. Yeah, what, I mean, what was that? It was.

To help with her rent i think in new york in that fucking apartment that she had made a huge apartment gigantic yeah oh god and when i was i guess 22 if she's a recent grad like yeah i mean when i was in college my dad used to have these jars uh one was for me that was for my brother and he would put dimes in one of the jars that he just found or got his change and he put nickels in the other jar and at the end of every month he'd cash out the jars and some and and that would be like it would always be like 20 bucks but that was like my dad's version of that he's like here are all the times i found this month i found 200 dimes and sometimes it would be a dime month or sometimes it'd be my

brother's dime month and if it was a shitty month you get like literally a check for five dollars it's like it's a nickel month wow shout out mike loftus and his many jars there's a penny jar but and i was like i don't i don't my dad collected pennies in a jar too what is it with what is the dad and coin jars my dad doesn't have a jar now i feel left out you gotta get some jars i gotta bring them over if they have jars they will put coins in them no my dad used to like i used to bring my laundry home to do when i was in school or after i just graduated and then like take food and he would like make fun of me he'd be like oh like here comes my homeless daughter so like that's my background so when i saw her dad just to slip her a check

like it was no big deal i was like yeah i was like but but literally i think you that's how you have to survive and that's why like you know in the media world we talk about like who gets to be interns or like who gets to be like very low paid uh workers um to get their foot in the door so that they can then become like high paying editors and stuff it's like people who come from a background where like they do have a support system in that way yeah but that was a moment i was like well thanks for showing that i like because you do feel for her a little yeah yeah it is useful to have that context and and like seeing the check passed i wonder if that was done intentionally to be like and this is the only way that i don't know it's not clear it seems like she's pretty low paid at runway i mean those

assistant jobs always are yeah so seeing the passed, I wish it were addressed a little more because it is useful to have that context of like she's miserable and she's still very privileged to have this safety net to fall into. Or to even imply that she has a plan B outside of this low paid nightmare job that she has is something. I don't know. Because the film doesn't do enough of a job of um telling us like oh she needs this job for money it tells us repeatedly she needs this job so she can move up that's her meal ticket into whatever job in publishing she wants yeah so i think that's another reason why that check scene stood out like oh i i forgot that maybe she can't make rent you know right yeah it would be interesting to see more of a dive into

that side of things but it i mean in 2006 no one was talking about that i feel like that was like approaching like late 2000s early 2010s was like peak unpaid internship shut up and take it and if you can't afford to do it fuck you find another job i think think what was confusing is that the film is trying to make us, or maybe it's trying to make us feel a way about the industry, not just media or publications, but the fashion industry, but then glamorizing it so much. Yes. Because we're supposed to understand that Andy thinks it's frivolous

and just stuff. And then she starts to wear the stuff in that and that other amazing montage this movie has so many a lot of montage the montage game is strong and i and i like i said i like youtube it watch it in leisure but then it glamorizes so um that's what left me confused it's like so does she appreciate it at the end or does she still think it's bullshit and she's happy she's gone because when she showed up to that newspaper job interview, she looked good. She had a nice outfit on. Yeah.

She was changed from her time. But then she gives all of her clothes that she got in Paris to Emily. Which is kind of like a weird. I mean, it's what Emily wanted. It's like an olive branch. But you should take her out to dinner. I don't know that Emily would want to hang out with her. Emily doesn't eat, so.

Oh, yeah. Can we talk about. Wait, really quick. Just sort of going off of what you were just saying. Wait, what were you just saying? About fashion. Oh, OK. So I agree that this movie very much, for all of the good things it does, does end up being like.

So if you think that the fashion industry is stupid and manipulative you're stupid and like you're just you just haven't given it a fair shake which is a very reductive basic message of like actually fashion good it reminds me of all the pageant movies we've been doing on this podcast recently where it's a similar a more muted version of what happens to Sandra Bullock in Miss Congeniality where she goes in with the middle part saying like I'm a feminist this industry is bullshit and saying things that like I think the movie by the end is like but it's not like that when it's like we sort of in 2019 are like, yeah, there's a lot of truth to what she's saying. But Anne Hathaway's character here, too. Yeah. It's like by the end, I don't think that we're supposed like even when she's like no this is actually good and you should be participating

in it and you can't not participate in it so you may as well just immerse yourself in it which is sort of like a similar message we get from Miss Congeniality about pageants of like instead of defying this industry find a way that you're comfortable participating in it which is like not the greatest because like at the end of that monologue like miranda's just straight up like like that color you're wearing we literally chose that for you like you're saying like even if you don't choose to participate in it like you are in it because we forced it on you so you better embrace it and but the way the movie shapes like andy's arc is that like girls looking good at the end you know so like as a viewer you're like like she's glowing

her skin's good like now she's a size four you know like how um yeah yeah and like she's like celebrating it and but it's not telling the viewer to be like to be like oh my god andy it's it's telling the viewer like yes girl you know so it's like, it's such a confusing message, and I think Andy's arc is even way more confusing than Miranda's arc, because, like, for Miranda, we're like, oh, is she really an evil devil worst product boss, or can she be

more, and we're given more of, like, a nuance, I think, because maybe Meryl Streep's performance, but with Andy, it's like, it's really, really confusing. Especially because, like, early on on i forget who she says it to but she says something like oh just because i have this job doesn't mean i'm going to change everything about myself and then she changes a lot of stuff about herself including the way she presents herself including her the way she like treats other people yeah it's it's she goes through this arc that i can't say i necessarily admire and i get by the

end when she you know does the symbolic throwing of the phone into the fountain and walking away from miranda it's like okay she like has reordered her priorities and she is like she changed back for the better but the movie does frame her becoming this new stylish person is like such a glamorous wonderful thing for her that it sends mixed messages i think and and i think like even as like useless as nate is he does say one thing where i'm like oh fuck yes when um he's like mad at her for something maybe when he she didn't go to her birthday party or like oh when he when she has to go to Paris and he was like you know what I don't care that you're into this stuff as long as you like did it with conviction right and that's the feeling I get about Andy it's like like I don't care if she's into this stuff I don't

care if she feels like she needs to lose weight like that's if she can have her own agency and she can make those decisions um and if she thinks she looks better in clothes whatever that's like her thing like live your life but at least like be into it and like live that and then i i would respect that more than like this weird wishy-washiness because even when she throws the phone in the fountain i didn't think it was like a oh i'm taking back my life again like i renounced this lifestyle because like miranda just got done doing that thing like everybody wants to be us i thought of it as like Andy being mad that Miranda just called her out on going to Paris you know yeah because it wasn't so much like everybody wants to be us because that is true and you know what Andy did want to be that and Andy was that it was because like

Miranda just like said well you just did it to Emily. Right. You know, which which wasn't that fair for her to say because Emily, you know, got hit by a car. But yeah, that I mean, and that is a confusing like it's a confusing message to send because it's like you see what Miranda's saying. But then it's implied that the solution to that is just to leave that industry and then it's fine i don't know it just seemed like an overly simplified resolution andy's character's weird and and it's it's frustrating because like like the sandra bullock miscongeniality character i largely agree with everything she says at the beginning of the movie and i i agree with her more at the beginning of the movie than i do at the end yeah so then what at the beginning of the movie. And I agree with her more at the beginning of the movie than I do at the end.

Yeah. So then what was the point of the journey, I guess? Right. That's why, like, in a way, we think of this movie as, like, Andy's story. But, like, when I finish watching the movie, I'm like, I want to know more about Miranda. Yeah.

Yeah. I want to know, like, well, who's she dating after this? Like, what are her kids grow up to be like? Who's her new assistants? What happened to Emily? You know, like, Andy's just, like, well, who's she dating after this? Like, what are her kids grow up to be like? Who's her new assistants? What happened to Emily? You know, like, Andy is just like this conduit by which I get to learn about Miranda. Yeah. I want the best for Emily, too.

Emily, I mean, Emily's character is kind of cartoony in how she's presented. And Emily Blunt is like so fun in this movie. It's one of her first parts ever. I mean, it's weird because I think the movie counts on you being so on Andy's side that you're supposed to be like, oh, Emily is so uppity and mean. But like most of the time she's right. She can be harsh, but she is usually right where she's confused as to why Andy got the job.

So was I. She's like, you don't know anything about this job you just got? Like, why did you apply? And that's supposed to be, like, mean and dismissive. But it's like, but why? Right. And the fact that her story, her, like, B plot gets so out of control that she gets literally hit by a car was like, I don't know. I thought, like, 10 years later watching her, it was like like there is a more grounded plot than the movie gave it credit for because she's just supposed to seem like Andy's stealing my life and a very like female competition in the workplace narrative that was pretty tired.

And again, counts on you being on Anne Hathaway's side no matter what. But I liked Emily's character and it was so clear that she knew exactly what she was doing and was really good at it and dedicated her life to it and i don't understand why andy would get preference over her like it doesn't and i think that sometimes the implication is like well she wants it too badly and it's like what she's working too hard she's doing i don't know yeah my main takeaway from that is that it is like kind of promoting the trope of, you know, women who work together or who are in close proximity to each other. They got to be competing because that's just how women are. that I was expecting something more along the lines of, oh, well, they're both working in this like toxic work environment and it's like high stress job. You think they would bond over the fact that they're in similar roles and dealing with similar things and there would be like

solidarity there that they can bond over. But Andy's not good at her job and doesn't know what she's doing. But that's true of anyone at first. That's true of anyone who starts out at a job. I mean, she's way more behind than probably most people. She doesn't even know where she is in the beginning. Like, I don't know. I think if a new coworker of any gender approached me and was like, excuse me, what is this? It's like, I don't have time for this. But there's no nuance in the way that's presented.

And it's also always like, well, feel bad for Andy because this lady's being so mean to her. Right. And then the actual first time that they really bonded was when they meet at that benefit dinner. And Emily's like, oh, my God, you look chic for the first time. And then Andy says to Emily, like, well, you look skinny. And Emily's like, oh, my God, thanks for saying that. That bonding scene is crazy. Yeah. well, you look skinny. And Emily's like, oh, my God, thanks for saying that. That bonding scene is crazy.

Yeah. It's like the scene where Emily blunts as a bunch of, like, really troubling stuff about her eating disorder. And Andy's just like, well, you look amazing. And she's like, cool, we're friends now. It's like, this is what we bonded over? Not the mutual abuse you all suffered. And, like, at no point did they does andy go like wait

you eat a cube of cheese a day like can we run down this yes eating disorder all the weight stuff in the movie where we i think the first mention of it is andy is um getting corn chowder for lunch stanley tucci's character makes fun of her. She's like, what, none of the girls here eat anything? And he says, not since two became the new four, zero became the new two. And then she's like, well, I'm a six. And he's like, which is the new 14.

So like body shaming her. Miranda says, she's speaking to Andy. She says, I said to myself, take a chance. Hire the smart, fat girl. It seems like they're trying to go for satire here sometimes, but it just doesn't work. It doesn't work because Miranda's, like, sincere in other ways. Yeah. Yeah.

And Stanley Tucci as well. Stanley Tucci, who he goes in on, he, like, starts nicknaming her Six. He's calling her Six. There's nothing in this closet that will fit a size six i guarantee it and then yeah he's like you're getting chowder like he's just like he's furious anytime a woman eats and it is it is a trigger for him uh women uh being nourished uh and then at the end the way that all sort of wraps up is that he says something like you you bet your size six ass. And then Andy says, I'm a four now.

And he's like, really? They had a moment. They bonded over. Everyone's bonding over these very sinister body standard things. Which, yeah, I feel like it must be an attempt at satire to some degree. But also, it doesn't land for me i just i see this and i'm like oh they are idolizing small body types that's what we're supposed to take away from the movie yeah no i think it's it thinks it's being cute and clever with that stuff but i

i don't know for me it totally yeah it's it's so pervasive because there are like other times where like miranda talks about like a model that got hired and she also makes a remark i think about the model's weight like called her frumpy or something but that i think that was definitely one of those moments where i was just like the fuck you know what i mean like and if i if i wasn't who i am and have had my own issues with like you know eating stuff but like i'm recovering and healthy now or whatever but if i would i think if i was younger more impressionable i'd be like oh this isn't i wouldn't even think it was satire i would just think this is like a normal thing yeah that like adult people talk about in their work

which is like really fucked up and if you're a kid seeing that movie because i remember that emily bluntline so specifically because i saw this movie when I was like 13 and that was like some early proto Jamie eating disorder like peak era and it at the time sounded to me like a literal suggestion of something you could do versus oh they're trying to make a comment on how body centric this it's just if you're gonna bring up the issue of body shaming in the fashion industry valid huge part of the industry but like make it very clear especially if you're marketing your movie at young people that you're being critical of it and that it's unreasonable and that it shouldn't be an objective because yeah like the cube cheese line was like oh you can do that even though emily blent is like subtextually saying like and it's killing me and i'm almost dead but all i got was

like oh cube of cheese you won't die sick like and and like she follows that immediately saying like oh i think she says like i'm one stomach flew away from being a zero or my my goal weight yeah and she's like she's sick during that scene. Like she has a cold. So I'm thinking like, bitch, are you there yet? Like, you know, like, is this the stomach cold that you're getting? Like, okay, go.

You know, like there's no like critique of it. There's no Andy being like, no, maybe we should like, why don't we step aside and you have something that's not a cube of cheese. There's nothing like that. Like all of the things that are talked about with weight stuff is just very matter of fact. It's just part of this world.

And you should aspire for it. And the fact that Andy is super excited to be down to a size four at the end of the movie, that just drives that point home. You've been compromised. And the very wild thing about that is that she looks the same. You know what I mean? From the beginning to the end of the movie. So then if you have body dysmorphia, you're thinking that this person who's the same body size from the beginning to the end has actually fluctuated.

It'll just feed into any body dysmorphia that you might have. Yeah. Oof. Yeah, this movie mishandles that theme. And it also made me dislike Stanley Tucci's character, who I loved at the time the movie came out. And I still, like, have a lot of love for that character, but so much of the focus is on that. And then it's like that's where they bond.

And we sort of touched on how his character is also very much like, no, you need to accept abuse in the workplace. And, you know, just do it until you get, you know, you'll get praise when you're doing a good enough job, which is, you know, not just like a hallmark of abusive work relationships, but all of them. And Sens, I think, I mean, that seemed to be a value that the movie held earnestly based on how it turns out. It's like, well, if you are working around the clock for low pay, you change your appearance entirely, then you can become successful. And the movie doesn't really challenge that in any way because that's what happens. Is that character queer coded?

I believe so. Yeah, he says when he talks about his background of how he was a little gay boy who used to sneak issues on runway and would read them under his covers. Right. He doesn't make it clear that it's specifically him that he's talking about, but you can make that connection pretty easily. Yeah. So that's yet another example that we see in a movie of a queer character who gives a makeover, which is something that we see so often.

And what I really didn't like about that makeover, except for the fact that it mercifully took place off screen uh was was that comes at the end of this long gaslighting except abuse in the workplace scene and then the writer has the gall to make it andy's idea to be like hey why don't you give me a makeover i was like you've just failed everyone every character in this scene by having it be like i mean that's so true i hadn't thought about that because it would be one thing if maybe uh nigel suggested it it was like forced on her yeah not that anything should be forced on anyone but like the fact that they put it on the character just felt weird i don't know and if you think about her makeover and the clothes that she ends up wearing it was just such a generic makeover like it had nothing of like who

andy might be you know how like if you watch makeover show he was like oh you like to wear things like this let's get you things that like that but like better to fit you better or like a color palette that might like help you with your features better whatever right what not to wear yeah but she's literally like wearing like fashion spreads yeah it's just whatever free clothes are available that happen to fit her and and she's very comfortable in it she's walking in like four inch heels like that yeah that stuff is like fun to look at but i was just like girl really like not even not even one twisted ankle or you know or being like oh this skirt is kind of too tight this wool doesn't feel right against my skin none none of that she's just like dives right into it and that's why like i just feel

so weird about the anti-character in this movie yeah she's like so like she's telling us verbally like i don't want to do this but then all of her actions are saying like i'm doing this very freely and happily and it's making my life better it looks so much better can we talk i know this episode is already so long can we briefly talk about the christian thompson character and how he is a fucking horrible creep that the movie does not really acknowledge or punish him for um i'll just kind of run through a list of the things that he does uh when he first meets andy he tells her that uh you'll never survive miranda so basically he's nagging her and doesn't have any confidence in her abilities um he keeps calling her miranda girl instead of calling her by her name hot so stripping her of her identity and individuality call me by well also to be fair

miranda does that to her for most of the movie as well. True. But we're also, you know, Miranda's framed as someone that we're not meant to like, at least while she's doing that. True. He says, he like sees her in this like beautiful gown and he says, oh, you're a vision. Thank God I saved your job. And she, to be fair, does challenge that and says, says well i figured a few things out on my own too

but it's a man taking credit for something he shouldn't take credit for and taking credit for a woman's work basically he's also offering her a way to get ahead in exchange for basically a sustained flirtation with him that we're led to believe will lead to sex exactly yep yep he keeps saying like i'll introduce you to you you know, this editor or whatever. At the New Yorker. Every time a guy says that, BT dubs, they're lying. What?

Jamie, what? Every time. Excuse me? Well, I just think about like my first year living here a lot and like every chode who approaches you and is like, yeah, no, I know, like blah, blah, blah.

It's never true. They always is like, yeah, no, I know, like, blah, blah, blah. It's never true. They always know someone influential's cousin who they're on terrible terms with. This is awful news to me, because I'm relying on that introduction for random men. But just, like, seeing it done in this particular way of, like, yeah, I know an editor. I'm like, interesting, what's their name?

Like, how do you know them? i'm like interesting what's their name like right how do you know them i'm so fucking skeptical of everyone but and then he feels like she owes him for like the harry potter book favor yeah which is it's unclear how he oh he has access to that but he has a friend who was a friend of a friend of a cover designer which is not how any of that works but whatever okay he's like yeah i was gaslighting jk rowling a couple years ago so she left her she left okay here's how i think he did it i think that he was gaslighting jk rowling and then she was like fuck you i'm out of here but she stayed logged into her google drive on his computer and he never logged out and so he has all of her documents oh maybe i think that he was performing the um what's the unforgivable curse that it makes it like mind controls you not the cruciatus curse

i think that's the torture one i forget what this curse is called but he was cursing her and like yeah basically like cursed her into giving him the manuscript i think that if someone finds seven how many horcruxes is it seven seven seven if you find all seven horcruxes he gets normal colored hair i actually would watch the film of like people trying to figure out how he got the manuscript and then they would explore it with via your guys's theories i would watch this there isn't just watch a detective be like oh it was a bad lead oh my god super producer sophie thank you so much says the imperious curse so he was imperious cursing her she makes the big bucks baby um and then okay so the finally the worst thing he does

is that he they're in Paris, he kisses her. She keeps saying no. After that asinine exchange. Paris is pretty. He's like, yeah, it's really pretty. Do you want to kiss me? He kisses her. She says no, I think, three different times.

And then he keeps pushing past the no, keeps kissing her. And it's a very implied, like, a no means yes. Like, keep going i'm out of excuses and he's like thank goodness so then they keep kissing and it just shows a man pushing past the no a woman being worn down and the whole thing being framed as a romantic rather than predatory which is what's happening she does give consent towards the end but after all this yes and she even says like i'm i've had too much to drink everything yeah she lays out which is what's happening. Because she does give consent towards the end but after all of this. Yes.

And she even says like I've had too much to drink. Everything. She lays out all the reasons why this is not a good idea. But the movie the movie makes her consent so that us as viewers

don't think he's a fucking rapist. Exactly. Exactly. And we see this all the fucking time and this is yet another example of it. How I would have loved for that scene to end is be like

because also they're in paris it's empty there's no one in paris in this movie and so it's just like she i don't think the movie intends this i think they just couldn't afford extras this day but like they're they're totally in the middle like she's drunk and alone in a strange city with no one around in the middle of the night and so there's always that like fear and pressure on women to say yes because what is the like what if he gets angry at being rejected and then you're physically harmed they couldn't afford extras this day but it was something that occurred to me sure um and it still framed us like wow she finally hooked up with with old flesh because then it cuts to the next morning and she's in his bed presumably they've had sex like and the movie frames the sex as consensual and and i think

they put her there so that she could discover that like he had the mock-up of the um the new issue of the magazine uh when Jacqueline becomes the editor right so it's like so they put her in a situation where she probably didn't really want to have sex with him but she did but so that like there's two things that are happening it can move a plot point ahead so that like she discovers this but also to that as viewers maybe we feel a way about her stepping out on Nate even though like they're technically broken up um but like I think that even 10 years ago, I was just like, this is weird.

I wasn't even mad at her or anything because I could care less about her and Nate at that point. Nate who says, why do women have so many bags? You get one bag, you put all your stuff in it and it's done. Wake up, you're Adrian Grineer.

Thank you so much. She should just you know maybe shop around for a worthy man yeah or no man or no man i mean the the thing with with this genre is that it still kind of subscribes to the like having it allness of second wave feminism of like saying like no she can have both and and still holding that up as like in a best case scenario this is what you'd have and not presenting any sort of fulfillment as a person with anything but the completely happy career and home life which like you were saying amy is just like it is a great ideal but then it's you know in practice you just have to be working twice as hard so even if you do have a successful career and a successful relationship family life whatever very often you find yourself like feel completely hollow as a person.

Stretch so thin. Yeah. And then you can't, and then you're like, okay, I did what I was told, but now I feel nothing. Why is that? And so, you know, we'll figure it out one of these days. We'll get it. Yeah.

We need, oh, here's what we need. We need a time turner like in Harry Potter 3 where Hermione, you know, she is going to all these different classes because she's traveling back through time so that she can have it all and do everything that she wants so that's what we as women oh that's what how many more that's what Harry Potter references would you like me to make I mean honestly I'm good leaving it here. Oh, I see. A Voldemort over here not wanting me to, you know, succeed. That's Voldemort's thing.

He doesn't want people to succeed. That's my favorite description of Voldemort's objectives ever. Voldemort, like, above all, hates success. he wants to be the only successful one anyway oh Voldemort little slit-nosed icon do does anyone have anything else that they want to talk about before we wrap up we've talked about everything I I had there's so much to talk about gosh so much up. We've talked about everything I had. There's so much to talk about. Gosh, so much. Well, does the movie pass the Bechdel test?

Yes. It does. Women talking about fashion, clothes, the magazine, etc. There are, you know, some conversations about men, whether it's Nate or Simon or whoever. The conversations that do pass a lot of the time are, and this isn't a criticism here or there, but they do tend to be about hyper feminine topics, which we see again and again and again. Yeah, where it's like, you know, that whole exchange about Emily Blunt's eating disorder and how it's cute passes the Bechdel test.

And to be clear, there's nothing wrong, inherently wrong, with talking about hyperfeminine things, but because we pretty much only see that in movies where women are talking, they're only talking about either very domestic things or very hyperfeminine things and are rarely talking about stuff that might be considered gender neutral or, you know, no one's talking about science. But there's a lot of talk

about work like it's true get that done how did you do this why aren't you doing this and where is that paper yes i really love i really like that where is it we still don't know can that be the sequel if oh okay what was it about if if only only Andy used her wand to summon it with the accio paper, she would have found it. Oh, dear. Oh, dear. So, anyway. Okay. Jamie just walked out of the room.

I just, it's just not for me. I understand. Let's rate the movie on our nipple scale. Zero to five nipples based on its portrayal of women. This is that maybe have to be made and different things like that. Female relationships are a huge part of the movie, but a lot of the time in this movie, the female relationships are not going very well. You know, we see this like archetypal successful career woman who is very difficult to be around. You know, there's the weird comments about weight all the time and body type. There's almost no diversity in terms of body type and

race. It's that weird New York City where only white people live. There's just all kinds of problems with this movie. So I'm going to give it, I'm tempted to give it a two because i think it's it feels like it has its heart set in the right place for 2006 yeah but we've progressed a little bit as a society since then so it feels not so progressive today but i think for the time it was you know attempting to do something so I'll give it a two and I'll give both of my nipples to Meryl Streep wow Brian subversive you know I was I was thinking it too as well for this uh yeah I agree with you that the movie for all of its failings and and sort of I mean it's weird. There's not, there's very few topics I feel like this movie completely fails.

It's just that there's a lot of gray area where it is maybe skewing on the side of gray area that I agree with less. But it is one of the few movies that you're like, oh, yeah, this is definitely a product of its time that I don't think is like unwatchable i think it's still like a really fun movie i'll watch it again it's trying to do a good thing it's not quite getting there but you know we'll feel that way about almost any movie made 10 years ago um which hopefully means the world is moving forward but you know we live in an act of hell so who knows um yeah my main takeaway from this viewing was the andy character and like how inconclusive the journey is and and and how frustrating it is to see young women with strong opinions have those opinions neutralized over the course of a movie don't love it but i give it i give two stars, and I'm giving them to Lily.

Oh, fucking kill me. I'm giving it two nipples, and I'm giving the nipples, which are star-shaped pasties, in this case, to Tracy Toms, who, god damn it, someday, I mean, she was incredible in Rent. Just, like, watch her in Rent. But Rent is poop. Don't say it. Rent is

good. Okay. Amy, what say you? Well, I'm saddened that you guys are giving it a pair of nipples because I was sitting here and I'm like, I think this is a solid three and a half big nipples for me. That's fine. That's great. And I think a is a solid like three and a half big nipples for me.

That's fine. That's great. Yeah. And I think a lot of it's tied to nostalgia and how much I just love the movie. That happens a lot on this podcast. And it's just like a fun movie to watch. And I just started really thinking critically about it because I knew I was going to do this podcast, you know. But even for all its troubles, I just love it.

And that's fine. Yeah. I just love and I love even though it's like trying to talk shit about fashion or like consumerism and how all of that could be like frivolous. It's still glamorizing in such a cute way that I can't. Andy wears some questionable things that I don't even think were in fashion then. But it's fun to see like how they thought what was fashionable then. And I think that like the glossiness of the film is something that making it beautiful to look at and fun to watch while also showing a woman in power who, even though we're supposed to be told is like a,

not a good person, but she's still like really competent and doing her job well. And it's portrayed by Meryl Street it's such a good thing you know I think that like to have that piece of art in the world I just appreciated it yeah like I definitely don't understand why there are no people of color in it why there aren't more queer people in it in the world of fashion yeah that's yeah um I just I don't understand why you know there are like lots of more real worldy stuff that isn't like being insinuated in the world of the devil wars product but you know it's it's a film whatever

but i think that like storytelling could have been done just you know been more effective and there are like really fucked up portrayals of things that are happening especially with a simon baker character but i just overlook all that shit because I like the movie. Hello, I'm a person who watches the montages for fun. Like, I love the foley in the montages. Like, I love the foley of the purses and the coats, you know, getting slapped. The slapping noises of them hitting the desk. Yeah. It's good.

I, like, track the montage of her makeover where she goes through all the different outfits. I'm like, this is filmed in a day. Let's look at all the inconsistencies of how it was like, how we can track that. It was like, I love what I think it's because I love watching like the visuals of this movie. Yeah. So you're allowed. Yeah. I mean, there's no there's no wrong answer.

There's truly not. I don't feel like I'm being defensive. I'm just telling you why. Yeah. Yeah. yeah no of course we're also extremely jaded and have recorded so many episodes I also gave Raiders of the Lost Ark zero nipples and I still

deeply love that movie so you know it's a journey that we're all on so I give one of my nipples to the Foley artist whoever they are great I love that scene if you're listening So I give one of my nipples to the Foley artist. If you're listening, hit me up. I'm on the cast. They're our biggest fan. And definitely a nipple to Miss Meryl, a nipple to Lily, who was, like you're saying, criminally underused.

Because her joy at receiving that hideous Marc Jacobs bag was like, I was like, man, that bag is ugly, but you love it, criminally underused. Because her joy at receiving that hideous Mark Jacobs bag was like, I was like, man, that bag is ugly, but you love it, so I love it. Yeah, an Oscar-worthy performance, honestly. The bag was trash. And then I have a nipple to the scene that I want to shout out to my friend, Lara. She pointed it out to me. There's this scene where she comes in, Andy comes into her apartment, and I think she just got out of the shower, and she's wearing a bra and a tank top,

and then she puts another tank top over it. And then she puts a hoodie over it. So, shout out to all that layering of tank tops for no reason. I didn't notice the tank top on a tank top. What could that possibly hope to accomplish? I don't know either.

Anybody knows behind the scenes info on that? So so that half a nipple goes out to my friend lara who pointed it out to me hell yeah very good well amy thank you so much for being here thank you for having me thanks for talking to us for hours um what would you like to plug where can people find you online uh you can find me online on the twitter my account is amy adoyzi it's spelled a-m-y-a-d-o-y-z-i-e it's like a gibberish name i made up when i was a punk kid i also have a website that has like literary event things that i do every now and then uh it's called uh by amylam.com like a byline uh no spaces because i write fiction um right now i'm in school and working on a novel about like a queer frontier pioneer story oh very cool yes

and i'm writing it as a novel but one day i want to see it like made into a thing i can watch well i'm a screenwriter so like i could like adopt it whatever we'll be talking about it on the back door. I better get hella nipples. I better get the guess or that not be cool. I'm already projecting this. You'll be the guest. Well, you can follow the Bechdel cast on social media across all the platforms at Bechdel cast. You can go to our you can join our Patreon, a.k Patreon, aka our Matreon, which is $5 a month and it gets you two bonus episodes every single month, plus our whole backlog of episodes.

You get access to that. You can check out our TeePublic store where there's always a lot of fun designs. You can go to teepublic.com slash thebechtelcast. There's all sorts of shit you can do on the internet. Rate and review us on iTunes. Does anyone ever, sometimes people do that. Yeah. Did you know that?

It helps us out. It's wild because I've never, every time a podcast is like, do it. I'm like, no. I'm not going to do that. But you should. But you should and be better. I hope you guys get some like sick beta boys reviewing your podcast. Yes. You should and be better. I hope you guys get some like sick beta boys reviewing your podcast. Unfortunately, if they also have flesh colored hair, they will not like us.

It's complicated. It's really complicated. But anyway, thanks again for being here. What a time we've had. And just a reminder that the devil does wear Prada. To quote the movie, it does. All right, bye. Bye.

Daphne Caruana Galizia was a Maltese investigative journalist who on October 16th, 2017, was assassinated. Crooks Everywhere unnerves the plot to murder a one-woman WikiLeaks. She exposed the culture of crime and corruption that were turning her beloved country into a mafia state. and 100% ad-free, subscribe to the iHeartTrue Crime Plus channel, available exclusively on Apple Podcasts. assassinate the president of the United States. One was the protege of Charles Manson. 26-year-old Lynette Fromm, nicknamed Squeaky. The other, a middle-aged housewife working undercover for the FBI. Identified by police as Sarah Jean Moore. The story of one strange and violent summer,

this season on the new podcast, Rip Current. Hear episodes of Rip Current early and completely ad-free and receive exclusive bonus content by subscribing to iHeartTrue Crime Plus only on Apple Podcasts. Kay hasn't heard from her sister in seven years. I have a proposal for you. Come up here and document my project. All you need to do is record everything like you always do.

What was that? That was live audio of a woman's nightmare. Can Kay trust her sister or is history repeating itself? There's nothing dangerous about what you're doing. They're just dreams. Dream Sequence is a new horror thriller from Blumhouse Television, iHeartRadio, and Realm.

Listen to Dream Sequence on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.