The Bechdel Cast - The Fast and the Furious (2001) with Faye Orlove

Episode Date: August 1, 2019

Together, Jamie and Caitlin and special guest Faye Orlove vroom vroom into an episode about The Fast and the Furious (2001). (This episode contains spoilers)For Bechdel bonuses, sign up for our Patreon at patreon.com/bechdelcast.Follow @fayeorlove on Twitter. While you're there, you should also follow @BechdelCast, @caitlindurante and @jamieloftusHELP Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Daphne Caruana Galizia was a Maltese investigative journalist who on October 16th 2017 was assassinated. Crooks Everywhere unearthed the plot to murder a one-woman WikiLeaks. She exposed the culture of crime and corruption that were turning her beloved country into a mafia state. Listen to Crooks Everywhere on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, you're just starting your career. That's where we come in. Think of us as your work besties you can turn to for advice. And if we don't know the answer, we bring in people who do, like negotiation expert Maury Tahiripour. If you start thinking about negotiations as just a conversation, then I think it sort of eases us a little bit. Listen to Let's Talk Offline on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Kay hasn't heard from her sister in seven years.

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Dream Sequence is a new horror thriller from Blumhouse Television, iHeartRadio, and Realm. They're just dreams. and husbands or do they have individualism the patriarchy's effing vast start changing it with the bechdel cast gosh man no familia welcome to the bechdel cast that was a close one. Oh, wow. We sure are fast. We're fully already we're the fast and the feminist more like. Ha ha ha ha ha. New t-shirt. My name is Jamie

Loftus. My name is Caitlin Durante. Meow. This is the Bechtel cast. Our show about cars. This is basically car talk today. Yeah, I drive, not to brag, a Toyota Prius from 2010. Meow, I don't have a driver's license. Beep, beep. What's up? So what we really do is talk about movies from a feminist perspective

and discuss how a movie treats and represents women. So this is our Fast and the Furious episode. It has been requested quite a bit before. We're lining this up with the release of feminist text Hobbs and Shaw, I'm sure. And yeah, I'm so excited to dig into it. And to be clear, this is about The Fast and the Furious, parentheses, 2001, the first installment in the franchise. Because at least four of the eight movies have basically the same title. And it's confusing. We're talking about the first movie. Yes.

And then our very well-informed guest will give us some insight into subsequent installments. Indeed. Tokyo Drift, anyone? Haven't seen it. I don't know. And for those who are perhaps new to the podcast, we use the Bechdel Test as a jumping off point to initiate a larger conversation about overall representation of women. And the Bechdel Test, of course, is a media metric created by cartoonist Alison Bechdel

that requires that a movie or an entire franchise must have two named female identifying characters who speak to each other about something other than a man. Oh, here's an example, right? Ready? Hi, Caitlin. Hi,. Ready? Hi, Caitlin. Hi, Jamie. Beep, beep. Who's there?

Meow. And that passed the Bechdel test? It passes. Yeah. Okay. We're doing good. Without much further ado, I say we introduce our guest i think yeah she really is the authority here indeed indeed uh she is an artist she is the owner of junior high a

feminist art space right here in los angeles and you know her from our josing the pussycats episode it's fey or love hi beep beep y'all beep beep honk honk i don't think they honk once in the movie why aren't they why it's already such a loud movie they may as well honk is that like bad form i don't know much about street racing you didn't learn everything you needed to know from those 90 minutes there was there was street racing in my hometown between the Burger King and the high school. How many miles? Is that about a quarter mile? It's about a quarter mile.

That's a quarter mile. So you've been living a quarter mile at a time since high school. That monologue is wild. He's like, I don't give a fuck about anything. I don't care about my family, my girlfriend. Except for those 10 seconds seconds that makes me feel alive and you're like also we should mention that faye drove up here on her motorcycle oh my crotch rocket as referred to in the film lovingly i think beep beep y'all beep beep i don't know if

it oh it does have a horn i think does it yeah it? Yeah. Oh, I see. For safety. No one's using their horns enough, I think. I didn't know you didn't have a license. I thought you were just poor. Well, can't it be both? I'm a complex female character. I was really trying to kind of put you in a box. Faye, what is your relationship with this movie and then the whole Fast and Furious franchise?

Yes. These are my favorite movies of all time. That's where my relationship begins. No, I guess I've always loved them. And then my college roommate, shout out Katie, it turned out she loved them too. It was just a real moment when we realized that um we had these in common and as they came out we would see them together and we developed a drinking game uh to them that does have to somewhat adapt per i did not play it uh this morning when i re-watched

fast and furious at around 9 a.m you did not I did not, but it actually is a little bit more applicable to the later movies. I did realize upon rewatch of this first one, which I normally skip in my rewatch, that it harshly did not pass the Bechdel test. Well, I have a case for it passing, but we'll save it. We'll save it to the end. I'm curious because I was very unpleasantly surprised upon my rewatch um but i like what you said towards the beginning that maybe we can sort of analyze these movies franchise wide because i do think they develop a stronger ethos well skipping tokyo but two and three and onward okay that I do find them way more feminist driven

interesting did you did you see these movies like in theaters growing up and stuff like that okay yes I do think I went home after the first one and told my mom I wanted a thong after seeing Michelle Rodriguez emerge from a very low from my car from I was gonna say from a thong shaped egg she hatched okay so you're you're a resident expert on this franchise what's your what's your history my history i saw the first movie in 2000 probably two i was in high school probably like a sophomore or junior and i did not feel compelled to see any of the other ones after that or re-watch that movie at any point don't get me wrong i like a lot of toxic male-driven franchises indiana it's sort of my thing unfortunately there is nothing about these

movies that i hate cars. They're like, oh, the turbo and the nitrous and the... It's basically... It's basically Nas. It's Nas. Which is also an energy drink that I was really into in college. And so for a while, I'm like, are they straight up putting monster energy beverage in the cars? Essentially. Without getting too scientific, yes.

Have you ever had a Nas? No. Okay. Well... I was actually shocked you didn't supply some as i walked in there i should have gotten a can of naz for this episode but there that is an existing i was you know i'm a lady must watch her figure because uh society be like that but so i was a diet naz girl let's keep it classy i've never heard of this Nas beverage. It is essentially jet fuel that you put into your body. But anyway, so yeah, something about this franchise just does not appeal to me at all.

So I've seen the first one. I rewatched it, obviously, to prep for this episode. And then I started to watch Too Fast, Too Furious just to see how I intended to get as far into the franchise as I could, just to have some more informed opinions. And you got to two. I got halfway through 2 Fast 2 Furious and then had to stop. So that's my relationship with this franchise. Jamie, what about you?

Well, I would say that I have seen only Tokyo Drift. That one is like the one that isn't even like canon. I know. Isn't that like a prequel or something? That's when they have the 40-year-old playing a high schooler. Yeah, I liked that one. It's a good movie, but it's like not. It has nothing to do with anything.

I saw that at a drive-thru. Appropriate. Exactly. Yeah, we were all honk, honk, I mean, again, appropriate. Exactly. Yeah. We were all honk honk and beep beep. Uh, there, yeah. I mean,

this is like a franchise that is not my genre really at all. I also like have a little bit of noise sensitivity and I was just like, I just can't like, it's even hard for me to see like a star Wars movie in the theater. Cause it's so loud. And this movie, even on my humble R roku tv was so very loud it is i feel like that they probably have some sort of warning on diet naz for noise sensitivity

right it's just like i don't know yeah it was just never my thing i mean everyone i grew up with saw all of them so i it's like one of those franchises that even though i wasn't really engaged in it i felt like i saw them all because everyone would be so excited about it but i mean this is a huge it's universal's highest grossing franchise there are it's it's eight movies now including hobbs and shaw there's i think fast and furious 9 coming out in 2020 like they've grossed over four billion dollars like it's it. It is a huge franchise. I think about $2 billion of that is just from me alone.

You're a very wealthy woman. And I like to spend it on... You're in literally a golden rolly chair right now. But yeah, so this was my... I think my first time seeing this movie, at least paying attention to it and oh man there's just there's just so much happening oh boy there's so much you know and it's like i really love the power of the first time you see a woman on screen she is making a sandwich for a man and i think

that that is really that's my feminism this is also one of the many movies that came out like a few months before 9-11 and it shows like there's we've well we've covered so many movies that come out like right before 9-11 and it's always it's kind of like a weird mix of of genres but this movie came out in the summer of 2001. And it's just, I mean, truly based strictly on the fact that after 9-11, movies were not fun for a while. You didn't get a good romp for a while. And this movie is so, like, truck-sized plot holes. But that's not what it's for right it's just supposed to be

like a fun movie that you're not supposed to be thinking about whether it makes sense or not which is a very like pre 9-11 uh or just in general kind of like a 90s uh well we just recorded an episode on independence day where it's like that movie is the stakes are deathly high and yet it is like this fun goofy movie yeah um i must have never fully processed 9-11 then because i i live my life for fast cars and fast oh i thought you're gonna say a quarter mile at a time well yeah like because without saying uh should i just dive right into the recap should i zoom into this your recap of this film okay so all you listeners get revved up yeah put your car into neutral and then or something forward yeah Slam on the brakes.

I don't know, the gas. I know how to drive. Flip up that weird red switch that every car in these movies has that turns on the knob. Turn up your boom box that's in the car and turn on your green hacker lights.

There's a hacker in this movie. We're really playing to female stereotypes of not knowing what a car is anyways proceed we open we see three black cars robbing a tractor trailer truck that's carrying a bunch of electronics dvds dv needs to be noted that the heist of this movie, the stakes are DVD players. Yes. And that is so 2001. So 2001. That's very pre-9-11. Personally, that's as high as the stakes get.

So DVD player crime. Yes. And you wouldn't believe it, but the black cars they're driving around, they're fast and they're furious. They're so mad. I would agree with that characterization. But they're also feminist, which is not included in the title. They're fast, they're furious, they're furious. They're so mad. I would agree with that characterization. But they're also feminist, which is not included in the title. They're fast, they're furious, they're feminist.

Now we cut to Brian. That's Paul Walker's character. He is driving a green car. He's fast. He's furious. But about what? We don't know. He does say, oh, shit.

He does. And then we're like, why are you mad? I don't know what He does say, oh, shit. He does. And then we're like, oh. And I'm like, why are you mad? I don't know what happened. He's furious. Yeah. He is trying to flirt with a woman named Mia. That's Jordana Brewster.

Yes. Of Deb's fame. Of Deb's fame. The sandwich-making fame as well. Oh, yeah. An icon in crustless tuna sandwiches. Women be making sandwiches. Yeah, for Paul Walker.

And also, it's not, like, it's like a weird, like, grocery store And also it's not, like it's like a weird grocery store. It's not even like a restaurant. It looks like a bar but they sell like market items. You could ask the bartender to make you a tuna sandwich. Where this woman's

making tuna sandwiches. It's obviously a front for the crimes everyone is committing. The DVD player eyes. But she's still running the business by herself. And she does have a name in the first scene, which is cool. She does have a name in the first scene. Just to set the bar where this franchise is about at for me, it's just like, well, at least she's getting paid for this.

At least it's not like. I think it's like a family business. I don't think she's. It's called Toret least it's not like... I think it's like a family business. I don't think she's... It's called Toretto's, which is... That is her last name. Right. I mean, I'm like, at least she's at work. And it's not just like some random guy being like, make me a sandwich.

And she's like, okay, crust or no crust? No crust. Yeah. She is the sister of Dom Toretto, Vin Diesel. I've never heard of him. he is an important fast car boy and he and his buddy room rooms better than anyone in this town certainly does he and his buddies show up to the bodega again we don't know uh what it is and you wouldn't believe it but all of them are fast and furious too we meet letty that's michelle rodriguez she is dom's girlfriend we meet vince he's got anger issues leon and then jesse is the hacker he's the hacker who cuts and he's so confused like dom i'm so fucked up i don't

know what to do he's just like though he's i don't understand i think it fucked up. I don't know what to do. He's just like, I don't understand. I think it's funny because I don't fully understand Jesse's character. And also multiple people in the movie don't seem to know what Jesse's role is and everything. They're like, why is he around? And Dom's just like, he's my friend. And I'm all he's got. I guess that's relatable of just like one guy who you're just like, why is he here all the time? Does anyone like him? And then one guy is just like, one guy who you're just like why is he here all the time does anyone like him

and they're like and then one guy is just like leave him the fuck alone you're like okay jesus i guess jesse's our friend is that some of the characters are described as being they just sort of showed up one day and then never left two of them literally two of the main characters like the way isn't that the scene with brian and mia where yeah like brian's trying to it's i mean it suggests he's doing it for his job but it's also just exposition and yeah mia gives him non-answers she's like well we all just sort of lived in the same neighborhood and some people just kind of wandered in and anyways 25 years later here we are it is weird because they're so against paul, Brian, coming into the group.

Yet it seems like the rest of them did sort of just waltz in. Is he not just the latest rando? The hottest guy they're threatened by. Oh, maybe that's it. Something to ponder. Maybe they're like, okay, these frosty tips. Too far. Those glacier blue eyes. Can't look away.

So Vince in particular is upset that Brian is hanging around and they get in a fist fight he's wearing a mesh shirt yeah and then dom is like don't come around here again vince says what's up with this fool he's sandwich crazy or something another great line there's a lot of good lines crazy the's so much crazy. The greatest of insults. That was like an incredible burn. Then Brian enters into a street race. Dom is also there to race Mr. Firefest himself, a.k.a. Ja Rule. Ja's there.

Ja's, you know, dreaming up a scam in real time. Billy is 10 years old at this point. Yeah. But Ja's texting him. He's had his hand just straight up on a boob. Yes. Yeah. Consensually. Consensually. She is empowered.

She is the one who puts his hand on her boob. Yes. So that's just like a thing where she just regrets that later on. Yes. Confirefest. Right. Confirefest. I mean, Confirefest, we all really had to reckon with ourselves.

With our feelings about Ja Rule. And Watt and Miles. I think it's maybe the one good thing about the fact that Ja Rule was the musician implicated in Fyre Fest was there's so few Ja Rule stans that no one was like, no! Everyone was pretty willing to be like, well, I guess there's not that really loud song at the end of the Fast and the Furious one. I know. No one was like, but he makes such good music. Yeah, there's no art versus the artist of a jaru.

So that's, you know, that's at least something. So they're all gathering for this race. This guy, Johnny Tran, is also there. The race happens. It's pretty touch and go for a while, but eventually Dom beats out Brian. Trouble is, Brian bet his car, but before Dom can collect this new car that he now owns,

the cops show up and chase down everyone, and they chase down Dom on foot, but Paul Walker, Brian, swoops in. Has his back. And picks him up and gets him away from the cops then johnny tran and some fast motorcycle boys show up and they shoot up brian's car and he's like no that was my fast and furious car that's a direct quote so then he and dom get back to dom's place and dom trusts brian now because he saved him from getting arrested it's also implied that they walked 20 miles but then you see them getting out of a cab yeah so i don't know how far they walked and how far the cab ride was

unclear i don't know everyone Ladies, ladies. It doesn't matter. They were 20 miles away from his house. But Dom's buds, especially Vince, still are like, we don't know this guy. We don't trust him. And to be fair, they are right not to trust him because the big reveal happens. He's a cop. He is a cop. But are they right? Well, because he's a good guy.

I mean, I think that that's one of the many fallacies of this movie. Is that any cop could be a good guy? Undercover cops, actually, your friend. Yeah. So Brian has gone undercover using his same first name, but different last name, in the street racing world because the cops, the FBI, think that the people who are hijacking the trucks full of DVD players are street racers also. And this is where we realized that Fast and the Furious is basically Point Break, but with racing instead of surfing. Oh.

I haven't seen Point Break, so stop right there with the references. Just stop it. Jeez. Anywho, so back undercover, Brian brings a car to Dom's place since he owes him a fast car. 10 second car. I love it. The 10 second car thing. That whole thing, I was just like, I don't understand how men bond with each other.

But I'm glad that they do i like that i feel like this movie is like relatively strong with like male male friendships which i think we should see more in movies yes uh but the way that they do it i'm just like i is this how that happens like i think i know you a 10 second car i'm like just say I care about you. We don't need to speak in this code. And then they all have a cookout together. Brian's really getting into this friend group. And he asks out Mia, who says no at first. She's like, I don't date my brother's friends.

Until two minutes later when she does. Well, then, because she's trying to piss off Vince. And she's like, I'll go out with you to the restaurant that Vince wants to take me to. I will say I liked that. That's your kind of woman? There's a few moments with the female characters

here that I'm like, that really appeals to my bitterness. My note. But thank you so much for acknowledging it and really making it more visible um visibility is critical uh but like this is like sort of the tail end of like girl power kind of characters which i think that like letty and mia in certain moments are meant to fall into yeah and even though it's like no that's not how that but there is still like that tiny like 90s girl power chip that was put in my brain by the spice

girls specifically uh although that lasts for a while longer and even it keeps some movies today yeah like well it's just like the cheap corporate feel. You're a good woman as long as you purchase this soap or whatever. But I liked that moment with Mia being like, I'm not going to go on a date with you. You're wearing a mesh shirt. I'm going to go on a date with Frosty Tips. I was like, alright, well, she's got to go on a date

with someone. She's also washing dishes the whole time. She is washing dishes. And she has also cooked that entire meal for them. So this pisses off Vince even more. And he already hates Brian enough. So the next day, their fast boy friend Hector comes into the auto shop that Brian works at and buys a bunch of parts for three Honda Civics, which is the same make and model of the cars that have been hijacking the trucks.

Now, Hector's fast fast but i wouldn't say that he's furious he's a pretty agreeable nice guy yeah he's the fast and the friendly oh yeah t-shirt idea yeah another so brian breaks into hector's garage but he sees that they're not the same car so he's like okay they're not the hijackers right but just then vince finds him knocks him out and then vince and dom are like hey brian you seem like a cop and he's like oh no i'm not and then he makes up a story and then they go and break into look at my hair would a cop have this hair this bad his arguments are very weak, but they're like, okay. Would he wear t-shirts as baggy as mine? No, a cop wouldn't do that.

I listen to Ja Rule. How can I be a cop? So then they all go to Johnny Tran's garage, and they see a bunch of boxes of DVD players. That's got to be like $400 worth of DVD players. That's gotta be like $400 worth of DVD players. Your stomach drops when you see the DVD players. You're like, no, I thought the stakes were

high. You can buy a DVD player now for like $30. In 2001, DVD players were so expensive. I guess it makes sense. My family paid off our DVD player in installments. They just robbed one. We should paid off our DVD player in installments. They just robbed one.

We should have just gone to Johnny Tran's garage. But we paid it off over like 18 months. They were very pricey. Very expensive, yeah. So now Brian suspects that Johnny Tran and his team are the hijackers. But he's like, there's not enough evidence. But the FBI moves in on them anyway. And it turns out that Johnny Tran and his fast boys are not actually the hijackers.

I love that you're calling them fast boys. They're fast boys. What do you mean? Yeah. I mean, we're certainly not about to call them the slow boys. I mean, yeah. They're fast. You're right.

They're fast. I shouldn't have brought it up. Fast, furious, friendly, feminist. Okay, so now one of Brian's cop friends is like, Brian, Dom and his fast boys are the hijackers, you dummy. And Paul Walker's like, no, he's my friend. He's my friend. We had so many intense conversations.

About Nas. Yeah, about the energy drink that we put in our gas tank but brian goes to dom and he's like hey whatever you're doing i want in on it so dom tells him to go to the race wars and then if he does well there they'll talk about also are we gonna strain it sounds and we should just acknowledge that we're going to be saying race wars a lot. And it will not pertain to any sort of racial division. It doesn't sound like what is going to sound like. I like, I straightened. I know.

I was like, oh, that's what you're calling it. Vin Diesel was like, let's go down to the race wars. And you're just like, where is this going? But of course, it's the Fast and the Furious. So it's just going somewhere completely stupid. They're going to the desert. I think they're going to Coachella. They say Coachella.

So they're just going to a Fast and Furious location. But it is called the Race Wars. Sure. Maybe in the new one they'll be like, we're doing this big event. It's called the Gender Wars. It does not have anything to do. It has nothing to do with gender. It's just what we're calling this party. We're calling going to the the genocide wars it's actually just us racing each other it's

just us like hanging out and driving our cars yeah uh so they're at the race wars yes and brian takes his like newly pimped out car there but then dom leaves abruptly with his team to go pull another job. So Brian goes up to Mia and he's like, hey, I'm a cop. We gotta go. I like Mia's reaction because she's like, man. She's just like, are you serious? She's just pissed. I'm also exhausted with Paul Walker at this point. I mean, would you rather date a cop or an illegal street racer?

I just think Mia can do better in general oh sure yeah i think that she like she's i mean she's jordana brewster is like 2021 when this is filmed so it's like you know she's just sort of she's she's maybe this is her gap year we don't know also notice in the party scene when she comes in and sort of breaks up a fight and tells us like paul or brian come get me a drink once i kind of split it up uh she just grabs it a snapple she does so she's got good sensibilities she she doesn't drink right well because she drives him home then so she hasn't been drinking and driving she's been chugging a snapple all night yeah she'd probably know some facts um yeah i mean i think in 2001 there were facts there were facts there there it is so funny like

the the snapple like there is so much i love blockbuster product placement because it is completely unsubtle like i don't know if naz was if naz was an energy drink back in 2001 holy shit like that's if like unobtainium was called like diet sprite like they're just like we can't let anyone get their hand on the diet sprite the most important thing in the world like they're so there there is another i i have a few listed that we'll we'll get to also um just to set the record straight, Corona is not a sponsor. Really? Vin just loves Corona. Huh.

That was an artistic choice. Wow. Incredible. Controversial for me. I mean, I almost only drink Corona these days if I'm getting it like a cheap beer because of Vin. Because of Vin? Because it's a drink of familia. Sure.

It's like I want to pop that top and know that I'm supported by my family and friends. It's true. You're right. Yeah. Okay. We keep doing movies with you that have a bunch of product placement. Remember? Yeah.

I love it. Oh, my gosh. Remember the Tidy Cats discussion? The Tidy Cats discussion. Josie is like, there's no more movie that has more product, more target recognition. Anyway, so Brian's like, hey hey Mia, I'm a cop. I'm undercover. We gotta go help out Dom and the Fast Boys. She's like, oh

shit. Okay. And then on the other side, Letty is having that great scene where they're pulling off this last heist and Vin is like, it's all good. I had a dream that we went to Mexico at the beach and Marcelouez is like

okay like i still there's three different characters that are like i don't know like i don't know dom this doesn't feel right i don't know if we should do this and it's and and turns out they are correct they're correct because everything goes wrong never doubt a fast boy's intuition. Right. Another shirt idea. The guy who's driving the truck that they're trying to steal from has a shotgun. Shit's falling apart. Letty crashes. Vin gets stuck to the truck. So then Brian and Mia catch up with them.

They save Vin. He's badly injured. So then Brian makes a call right in front of dom and he's like hi it's officer brian please send help and then dom is like why i oughta the way he looks at him i mean my heart breaks it shatters that's his bro that he trusted him him and now he can't trust him anymore he asked him point blank are you a cop he said no he never says no

he sort of skirts around it that's actually a really good point how much I love Paul Walker you don't have to convince me I just the heartbreak I feel when it comes to Vin Diesel and the way his eyes just look at Paul I know sparkle

just drains right out yeah no I mean their friendship I mean I'm excited to talk about yes yeah so now we're back at Dom's house Brian shows up because he has confirmed that his new BFF Dom is a criminal and they're yelling at each other they're pointing guns at each other you might even say they're furious they're so mad the fast and the soul man and then jesse shows up who had like taken off because he lost a race earlier against johnny tran he's like i don't know what to do and then johnny tran shows up and shoots jesse which we don't deal with at all in the story the movie it's almost just like why did no one in the movie knows why jesse was included he's killed it's just like why remove jesse from the movie well he's the inciting incident for vin then to run off and chase johnny tran and kill him. Oh, to be more furious.

Right. That's true. So Brian and Dom. Because it's kind of showing more of his loyalty. Yeah, overlaying thread with all of these movies, and I think a big reason why I love them so much is like loyalty and friendship. Believe it or not. It's beautiful.

The fast and the friendship. Friendship and fury. No, yours was better. Yours was better. The fast and the friend yeah the fast and the friend friendliest friendships the fast and the family friendships familia fast and familia so great then dom and brian go after johnny tran and his cousin and they like stop them but then they're like we should race each other one last time and they do it and who wins i'm not sure can't tell but there's a train that almost hits him

and then dom crashes and he's like i gotta get away the cops are coming and then brian is like hey i still owe you a 10 second car so he gives car. He gets away, and he's a bad cop because he didn't arrest the criminal. No, but in his defense, him and the criminal are friends. They're friends. Friendship is more important than laws. Right. So that's the moral of this story.

Which, you know, often true. Often true. Let's take a quick break, and then we'll come right back. Daphne Caruana Galizia was a Maltese investigative journalist who on October 16th, 2017, was murdered. There are crooks everywhere you look now. The situation is desperate. My name is Manuel Delia.

I am one of the hosts of Crooks Everywhere, a podcast that unhearts the plot to murder a one-woman Wikileaks. Daphne exposed the culture of crime and corruption that were turning her beloved country into a mafia state. And she paid the ultimate price. Listen to Crooks everywhere

on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey everybody, this is Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang. We've got some exciting news for you. You know we're always bringing you the best guests, right? Well this week we're taking it to the next level. The one, the only, Catherine Hahn is joining us on Lost Culture East.

That's right, the queen of comedy herself. Get ready for a conversation that's as hilarious as it is insightful. Tune in for all the laughs, the stories, and of course, the culture. I feel some Sandra Bernhard in you. Oh my God, I would love it. I have to watch Lost. Oh, you have to. No, I know, I'm so behind.

Katherine Hanken's thing. Oh, I'm really good at karaoke. And on cameras, yeah, what's your song? Oh, I love a ballad. I felt Bjork's music. I just was like, who is this person? I got to hawk this slalom, Lugie. Not hawk the slalom.

I absolutely love it. It was somehow Shakespearean when you said it. It was somehow gorgeous. Yee, my slok, you hollum. Listen to Las Culturistas on Will Ferrell's Big Money Players Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm Gianna Pradente. And I'm Jemay Jackson-Gadsden.

We're the hosts of Let's Talk Offline, a new podcast from LinkedIn News and iHeart Podcasts. When you're just starting out in your career, you have a lot of questions. Like, how do I speak up when I'm feeling overwhelmed? Or can I negotiate a higher salary if this is my first real job? Girl, yes. Each week, we answer your unfiltered work questions. Think of us as your work besties

you can turn to for advice. And if we don't know the answer, we bring in experts who do, like resume specialist Morgan Saner. The only difference between the person we don't know the answer, we bring in experts who do, like resume specialist Morgan Sanner. The only difference between the person who doesn't get the job and the person who gets the job is usually who applies. Yeah, I think a lot about that quote. What is it like you miss 100% of the shots you never take? Yeah, rejection is scary, but it's better than you rejecting yourself. Together, we'll share what it really takes to thrive in the early years of your career. Without sacrificing your sanity or sleep.

Listen to Let's Talk Offline on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. We're back. That was a boat. Do they ever ride boats, Faye? In your professional opinion? No, but you should watch The Italian Job. What about a train? There's a lot of train-related scenes,

but they're never directly driving the train. But there's cars on a train that they have to get off a train. They're alongside trains. The physics get... It's kind of funny to look back and realize it started with DVD players because towards the end it is like matters of national security. There's literally like an entity called God's Eye that can overlook every single human and what they're doing. And you're like, oh yeah, you just robbed some DVD players.

You gotta raise the stakes from movie to movie. They get raised so exponentially. I'm like, what is nine going to be like? That's all I think about. I mean, the whole solar system is at stake in that one. I honestly, you're kidding, but I wouldn't be surprised if they go to space. Like, something is going to be insane. I mean, spaceships are fast and probably furious.

There's going to be some sort of space war. Wow. Wow. From race war to space war the Fast and the Furious journey they should get you writing I don't know if they started 10 they would never let a woman write these movies

I'm actually kind of curious the same man has written at least six of them a few get kind of wonky and then they come back to the older director who's incredible oh okay let me figure out the the writer of this movie the fast and the furious three credited writers gary scott thompson

eric bergquist and david air it looks like david air also wrote suicide squad and, yikes. Oh, he's talented. Gary Scott Thompson also wrote Too Fast, Too Furious. It looks like there's a different man writing the most recent ones. Okay, well here you are just assuming gender. So really, that's on you. It is truly a man named Mark. I cannot tell a lie. A man named Mark writes the Fast and the Furious movies. And are you shocked?

I know. So where do we want to start here? a man named Mark writes the Fast and the Furious movies, and are you shocked? I know. So where do we want to start here? I guess let's start with the female characters. That's a good place to start. There are two, so it'll be quick. There are two. We'll just zip through this. Okay, it should be mentioned. Faye, you have a cat named Letty. I do. A male cat. Well, both my cats are named after Fast and Furious characters. My girl cat is Dwayne the Cat Johnson. She

is... She's furious. I'd say Letty's fast, Dwayne's furious. Oh, okay. That tracks with what I know. But, yeah, no, it's so funny watching the movies now and just thinking about my cat instead of Michelle Rodriguez. But yeah, I can't overstate how much i love these movies and

i really kind of wish we watched like the third one or fourth because this one they just get so good i mean they get so maybe we'll do another episode and bring you back for that i'm fully available for when the next next one comes out there's always going to be a next one is every one to two years blessing in the curse of the fast of the fast franchise well they actually i do think they're ending at 10 because they they got like budgeted for fast like x otherwise they're gonna have to start paying vin diesel in like planets it's like they make that's what the space wars is about that's the space war one that's the final one um okay let's talk about mia let's start with mia sure

she's the first female character that we really see on screen she is dom's sister yep she manages the front business sort of but it seems like she kind of just makes food for whoever asks yeah is something we see her do a lot. She is fully a love interest character. She's basically in the story, I would argue, just to make, you know, to like complicate Paul, like Paul Walker. There's so many times when Brian is talking to his fellow police officers and they're like,

well, maybe if you didn't have such strong feelings for Mia, you'd be able to be a better cop. And I'm like, what if cops talk to each other? But he defends her honor. He does. He shoves a pervert. He does. He shoves a pervert.

But that happens a lot. I'm thinking also in The Rock, not Dwayne The Rock Johnson, but the Michael Bay film, The Rock, his wife, where Nicolas Cage's girlfriend character, everyone keeps telling Nicolas Cage, like, don't think about her. You're just going to get distracted and confused. So this is kind of an example of a woman being present in the story as sort of an obstacle almost. Or like seen as being like, you're clouding this man's judgment because of your feminine wiles or something another um part of

Jordana that I love or Mia the character of Mia is that throughout the the franchise she does go from having bangs to not having bangs and then back again which is a huge female that is a journey what a character arc as a woman with I can't say I don't relate yeah as a woman with a forehead I've been there yeah and it really I mean does it directly i wish i wish okay one of the many reasons i wish that there was at least one credited female writer as if you know you could really work in story into the bangs because if you're getting bangs you're not in a good place yeah especially if i would you know like jordan and bruce i prefer her without the bangs but i would understand you know sometimes i bring out the bangs when I'm feeling.

I do see you just got your bangs cut and they're pulled back right now. So are we. Because I'm feeling much better now. Okay. Because that did seem like a cry for help at the time. It definitely was. And so, I mean, I just think if male writers understood women better, they could write to these bangs choices. Absolutely.

I think the bangs kind of tell their own story, but know teach their own it's worth mentioning i have sort of this lineup of of things that happen to main female characters later in the franchise i have not seen these movies but uh in the fifth movie the villain of whatever that one is threatens threatens to have her raped and killed in the sixth movie she gets kidnapped and held as a prize for the men to retrieve. And she eventually... Where are you just curious, getting this information as someone who has not seen the movie?

It's like some Wikipedia synopsis or something? Yeah. Okay, I was just curious. Because she's not in all of them. She's in five of them. Yeah. But these are, I guess, in the later installments. It's weird.

I mean, I'm interested in your opinion on this, too. Based on strictly the Wikipedia read, it would seem that the attitudes towards women, in fact, may get worse over time because I was pleasantly surprised that a blockbuster movie chose not to completely damsel or like hold a woman as like collateral or to be rescued in the first movie but it seems like that happens a bunch later on uh-huh yes but yeah so with mia um she is in the world of street racing sort of only on the periphery where she like hangs out with other street racers she mostly makes sandwiches for street right she doesn't get to participate in any races we do see her driving fast on her date with brian but she's right fairly passive it is later you do learn later that she's an excellent driver as well and sort of makes it a conscious choice not to be part of that world but um is more than like welcomed in it and she has like every capacity to be talented in that regard.

Well, we do see her at the very end whenever Brian has caught up to the final heist that's happening. And she's behind the wheel most of the time of Brian's car because he's trying to save Vince. And so she's doing some, you know, pretty complicated, fast and furious driving. Yes. So we see that she is competent but and that like yeah women are included in the climax of the movie like everyone is participating in the climax of the movie there is a moment where they're like letty is hurt just kidding she's fine and then she sort of rejoins the action but i thought that was cool that the two female characters that we have

are at least included in at least one big action scene they're sidelined i think a lot earlier and oh yeah um and the way that all women are portrayed earlier in this movie is like uh yeah but it was cool that like the climactic scene, you know, it's not like Pacific Rim woman launched out of the scene. Sure. Never to be seen again. Yes. I would say, though, that this is another movie where a woman who is good at cars is shorthand for she's not like the other girl. She's down to earth.

Because it's like she's got a traditionally masculine skill so that makes her cooler and more able to hang than other girls i'm wondering if like the moment that you were possibly going to bring up kind of making the campaign that this does pass the bechdel test is when michelle rodriguez to another woman who's hanging over dom calls them skanks and then they say okay we'll back off and that is a conversation and that is not about a guy but do they have names she is named she is named okay because so here's what happens as they're approaching dom he goes hey camille hey monica god damn it so they're they're named damn it camille and monica but that is not the only woman named monica in this movie there's a different

monica with jarul exactly so like i mean i guess that that's are we sure monica wasn't just recast that is not the only woman named Monica in this movie. There's a different Monica with Ja Rule. Exactly. So like, I mean, I guess that that's true. Are we sure Monica wasn't just recast? I mean, they're two different actors.

Like it is. So clearly like the screenwriters knew exactly one woman between the three of them named Monica. And they were like, Oh my God, what are you? They were drafting this around the Lewinsky scandal. They're just like, Monica,

people love Monica. Okay. Evokes a lot for people. Okay, wait evokes a lot okay wait we need there's there's some more characters so uh monica if you take away some of the letters there's mia okay so there's okay or another character's name is mia which is just sort of derivative letty is a letty's a wild card of leticia's her full name yeah that's at least like a thoughtful name I don't know I think though that they were like okay uh we took away some letters from Monica to make Mia letters let let letty that's how they came up that's how they came up with all the female characters

what could that possibly be short for and then uh Leticia yes good good good okay but yeah so like the women go to cars the most egregious example of this that i think we've come across at least on the podcast so far is like the megan fox character in transformers right uh especially because like her interest in cars is so it's like basically just used as an excuse to sexualize her. Yes. Yeah. Like she's bending over the hood. She's humping. She's measuring the tailpipe. My favorite sort of like portrayal of a woman who they give these sort of like masculine interests to and decide not to give them more of a personality or any sort of more development because they think, oh, she has like manly interest is Natalie Portman in the first thor movie when like two times she goes i'm an astrophysicist and absolutely no other uh like that's all we know yeah it's like but what more do we need to know she loves science she loves

the space wars it's such yeah like those empty because it's like ultimately kind of like an empty gesture to do that and also like with the with and Mia is I mean, the way that women are dressed in this movie is very sexy. Agreed. Very hot. Gorgeous. Inspirational. They're dressed in very particular ways. And like I think Mia dresses on the more conservative side, which I think is supposed to be shorthand for she's a good girl she makes you the sandwich as opposed to if you're a woman who is at the street race you are like a loose you're probably named Monica yeah and you all you are strictly there to hook up with whoever wins the race part of the drinking game that I briefly mentioned was you do drink anytime there's like a gratuitous ass shot. They get a little bit more in your face about it, actually.

I think as the films grow, in my opinion, do become more feminist, they actually do gravitate towards just showing more butts. Okay. Which I haven't really grappled with. I mean, it's possible for maybe something to both progress and regress at the same time. Thank you for saying that. There are. You're safe. It's fine.

Safe space. It's good. Like, is everything I know shattering? When you really think about it, maybe, oh, God. I mean, this is a big part of my life. Isn't feminism? We haven't ruled. You know what?

Feminism is a conversation. It's a construct. And I think part of this podcast't. You know what, feminism is a conversation. It's a construct. And I think part of this podcast and feminist discussion is, you know, a discourse. And there's no black and white. True. This movie is the greatest. I'm not going to get you to call this not feminist. I won't leave.

Okay, so there's, like, Mia's in the car. I think that there is sort of a tendency for when a woman is presented as like you were saying like good at car uh she she also has to present hyper feminine at the same time and if there's too much straddling of that line of like you can't be good at car and present like more traditionally masculine right or like she does wear cargo pants okay but it's 2001 everyone's wearing cargo pants yeah and she is wearing them with a very high-rise thong yeah yeah we're talking about letty right yeah okay no i was talking about mia oh okay i was like yeah because i feel like letty is the one who's like characteristically like into cars like the the dude kind of girl i like letty's

character better across the board it's's like Mia is very much a stock girlfriend character. She kind of remains that way, I will say. She becomes like a mom and a wife and it's like, it's like good for her

but yeah, she's never really like the focus. Right, like she's here for this movie to just keep Paul Walker in this space

and like she's good at car for a second which at least is paid off at the end when she needs to be but i don't know the especially because it's like i love jordan brewster yeah i wanted to have more fun stuff to do yeah she she isn't given much especially car type stuff which is the focus of this movie right yeah the the woman good at car thing in this movie i would say is not as egregious as like the megan fox transformers thing because it doesn't feel

tacked on and their interest hasn't been like overly sexualized but it does mean that like the women who know cars get to hang out with defast boys and the women who don't know cars are the quote trophies who stand who are literally they're literally called trophy like yeah like dom picks up letty and you're my trophy you're like no letty we do see participate in a race but mia is really just there for paul walker to put his arm around and help wash some dishes and yeah really yeah it's kind of to show that he's like a good guy really because he defends her he helps with the dishes he it's kind of shows his intentions too that he falls for her and not one of the girls at the not one of the Fast and Furious girls. Yeah. Because those are beneath him.

Yeah. And then Mia, like Mia is also used to show what a quote unquote bad guy that Vince is in this movie where he is very bossy towards her. He uses a gay slur at the beginning of the movie.

Yeah, like he's just generally not like the good guy. He says at one point, like whenever he sees Brian washing dishes, he's like he's just generally not like the good guy he says at one point like whenever he sees uh brian washing dishes he's like yes wash my car and then i'm gonna put you in a dress and put you out on the street which is like okay that's like sex worker shaming or i don't even know what you're saying vince is i mean vince is all over the place and and the way he puts people down is very 2001 um what is he in his sandwiches yeah what they're sandwich crazy he's sandwich crazy or something that's his whole vibe that gave me goosebumps like how dare he i mean that performance you know it's a performance where

the shirt is doing more work than the man perhaps even being half a shirt you know it's true i mean that shirt was really putting in putting in it almost reminded me of matthew lillard's uh mesh shirts and hackers and and slc punk honestly lillard rocked a mesh for a good six to seven years there feminist icon matthew lillard anyways uh let's take a quick break and then we'll come back. Daphne Caruana Galizia was a Maltese investigative journalist who on October 16th, 2017, was murdered. There are crooks everywhere you look now. The situation is desperate. My name is Manuel Delia. I am one of the hosts of Crooks Everywhere,

a podcast that unhurts the plot to murder a one-woman Wikileaks. Daphne exposed the culture of crime and corruption that were turning her beloved country into a mafia state. And she paid the ultimate price. Listen to Crooks Everywhere on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, everybody, this is Matt Rogers. And Bowen Yang. We've got some exciting news for you.

You know we're always bringing you the best guests, right? Well, this week we're taking it to the next level. The one, the only Katherine Hahn is joining us on Lost Culture East. That's right. The queen of comedy herself. Get ready for a conversation that's as hilarious as it is insightful. Tune in

for all the laughs, the stories, and of course the culture. I feel some Sandra Bernhardt in you. Oh, my God, I would love it. I have to watch Lost. Oh, you have to. No, I know, I'm so behind. Katherine Hanken's thing.

Oh, I'm really good at karaoke. What's your song? Yeah, what's your song? Oh, I love a ballad. I felt Bjork's music, and I just was like, who's your song? Oh, I love a ballad. I felt Bjork's music. I just was like, who is this person? I got to hawk this slalom, Ludi. Not hawk the slalom.

I absolutely love it. It was somehow Shakespearean when you said it. It was somehow gorgeous. Yee, my slok, you hollum. Listen to Las Culturistas on Will Ferrell's Big Money Players Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast just starting out in your career, you have a lot of questions. Like, how do I speak up when I'm feeling overwhelmed? Or, can I negotiate a higher salary if this is my first real job?

Girl, yes. Each week, we answer your unfiltered work questions. Think of us as your work besties you can turn to for advice. And if we don't know the answer, we bring in experts who do, like resume specialist Morgan Saner. The only difference between the person who doesn't get the job and the person who gets the job is usually who applies. Yeah, I think a lot about that quote,

what is it, like you miss 100% of the shots you never take? Yeah, rejection is scary, but it's better than you rejecting yourself. Together, we'll share what it really takes to thrive in the early years of your career without sacrificing your sanity or sleep. Listen to Let's Talk Offline on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Let's talk about Leti. She is my cat. She is Faye's cat. How many nipples does your cat Leti have? Is it eight?

Oh my gosh. I think it's eight or six. Okay, sure. That sounds about right. Feminist, definitely. Yeah, very feminist. For sure. I mean, she's honestly doing laps around us.

I don't know what the fuck we're doing over here. You're misgendered, my cat. Again. I'm sorry. Listen, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Still, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Still feminist. Lettie, the character.

Yes. I smell skanks, alert. Ooh. One of her, I think Lettie, I like Lettie. I don't know, Faye, I mean, I'm sure you understand this far better than I do. She dies in the franchise, but then it turns out she's not dead. Okay, so are you just, like, spoiling everything for everyone? Yes.

No, to be fair, they came out about 10 years ago. Yeah, she does die, and she does come back. Okay, so I can't vouch for any of that, but in the first movie, I feel like she is, like, half stuff I like and half empty girl power trope-y stuff that I'm just like, oh, man. We don't get to see her do any significant driving until the, again, horribly named race wars scene, which is not until toward the end of act two. We're like well into the movie before we see her do anything impressive. And it's really in just one scene where a guy pulls up next to her. He's like, baby, you should be watching from the side.

I don't want to get any exhaust on that pretty face. And then she's like, how about you put your money where your mouth is? And he's like, how about I race you for that sweet little ass? Okay, I do love this scene. Then she says, if you want to to ask why don't you hit up hollywood boulevard which is another i actually live on hollywood so i took offense to that i mean that was a direct dig at you it felt like it and then and then michelle rodriguez puts on the sunglasses and you're like i think there's a lot of nuance to her performance i really like michelle rodriguez

as i love her she's i mean i i really enjoy her liam neeson comments aside which she retracted so it's all good i don't know about this uh yeah i mean look it up it's not relevant to this discussion uh but she's great yeah so she she's like, okay, I'll bet you $2,000 whoever wins this race. And then she wins. And we're supposed to be like, wee, girl power. I'm so empowered because a woman won. Which, to be fair, I am. However, it has no narrative importance or impact.

No narrative importance. And you can't just have one tiny glimpse of a woman's empowerment in a movie and then have the rest of the movie showing women who are sidelined objectified like all that stuff i'm sorry caitlin have you seen a blockbuster before of course you can do that that's every movie i've ever seen in my whole life i misspoke i'm so sorry no I no I do I totally agree I like I really liked that scene and that was like the whatever I guess that's the line of cheesy girl power stuff that I'm like okay that scene I like can handle and I appreciate the gesture but it doesn't if you take that scene out of I'm glad it's there but if you took it, nothing about the movie would be different, which just means that she's not, you know, given enough to do that makes her critical to the plot.

And then at the end, during the climactic, well, I guess it's not even the climax, because the climax is the race between Dom and Brian at the end with the train. It gets so loud. Your noise sensitivity, I had no idea. It was so loud. The heist, the final heist at the end. My volume was at 11 during the last few minutes. I'm glad that, like, Leti is allowed to be a part of, like, the heist gang, I guess. If you're going to have criminals, you might as well let a woman be a criminal too and it is good that like i mean i

wish that we got to see her skill more in the movie but it is repeated by a bunch of different characters how how skilled she is and like what an important part of the group she is even though we don't really like you don't see it that much in this movie but i i appreciate but then she's the one who crashes so it's like all right well i mean i guess it could have been anybody but you gotta make the woman crash the car during certainly not gonna be vin yeah right or leon whoever the fuck that is yeah who is leon i don't know which guy is that he never comes back he's the one who sort of looks like vince i couldn't tell them apart for the first like hour and 20 minutes of the movie but he's like a nicer vince basically right i and

then also jesse there's like that loose backstory for him where he's like a genius hacker and he's like i could have gone to mit but i have add anyways i'm a street racer now. And you're just like, this journey, okay, fine. I mean, back to Letty. She is Dom's trophy. He says it. She, a hot list of things. And I'm like, man, she deserves better. The whole like jealousy arc of I smell skanks.

Right. It's very 2001. And just as like your boyfriend who's flirting with these women be mad at him not mad at the various monicas so many monicas he just approached the flock of monicas that Vin Diesel takes around with him wherever he goes um I think that Leti like she is objectified in some ways, but not in the same way that all the monikas are. Sure.

The monikas, I think, are the most egregious example of just complete, like they're just framing them as- I mean, set dressing. Yeah. So much male gaze, so many lingering shots of the camera on women's butts and breasts and like the costuming

in the case of letty though i would argue that in their scenes together dom and letty are equally sexualized because there is some like yes she's wearing a tank top yes her titties are all the way up yes we see her butt get grabbed in a shot, but we are also seeing Vin's oily muscles. Glistening. We're seeing his shiny head. I feel like in those scenes... Shiny head. Yes, I did say we're seeing his shiny head.

You just wait. You think you see shine now? Just wait until The Rock gets involved. Oh my God. Literally part of the drinking game is just fold down your beer anytime. He's the only one shiny. It's insane how sweaty he gets.

Do they mat other sweaty guys? I don't know. He is just glistening. They make a joke in one of the later movies that he is always just covered in baby oil. So it becomes referenced how intense it is. I mean, it's intense in the first one too. So it was like,

and there is that one horny scene with Vin and Michelle intense it is i mean and it's it's intense in the the first one too so it was like in there there is that one horny scene with vin and michelle and they're fucking near a car because you can't resist they're fast they're furious um and in that scene i was like they're both sexualized and so that specific scene for me was kind of like okay i guess that was just like a hot blockbuster sex scene. Right. Because, I mean, the target demographic of these movies are teen boys, young men, the boys of any age, really. Right. So it's like, well, we need an example of like a really fucking cool, hot, but like not too hot, but hot enough, manly man who's sweaty and muscly paul walker who is too hot too hot too furious so yeah we like you know i guess they need to throw in an impressive

man who the boys who these movies are targeted for can be like oh man he's so cool i want to be just like my boy vin diesel right yeah the whole first movie just like makes me hope more for letty in subsequent installments so fay how do you feel letty's character progresses do you like it do you not like it what are your what are your insights well I definitely do like her character she gets a lot more exposition you get a lot more of like her and Vin's relationship and I think he treats her really well I don't think I think it's like a very they're on equal playing fields they're both part of the team in the same capacity and I think they're both like well respected I didn't really think about in terms of like her being this like damsel that

does need to be rescued because that's like the entire plot when she comes back to life basically so she gets fridged and then unfridged she basically they fake her death to use her as a pawn against vin um so she gets like brainwashed so even while she is a damsel she's like brainwashed. So even while she is a damsel, she's like this badass sort of supervillain. So I guess I never really thought of her. She is definitely in a space to be rescued, but she's not weak. She's still the main character. I don't know. So up for discussion.

Does the franchise get any better in terms of, like, because so many shots of this movie are just, like, sweeping shots of, like, women's bodies and, like, them being, like, framed as the trophies for the cool fast boys who win the race. Does that get any better or is it still okay? No, it does not. That's just part of them that's i think from what i know about this world it's like somewhat a part of the culture but like there are moments where they become kind of more self-aware about it like when gal gadot becomes part of the cast because gal gadot becomes a part of the cast and she's like an incredible racer and she um there's a part where she like

uses her sexuality to like her advantage like it becomes a little bit more like self-aware but i mean people go see the movies for like this fun romp and for the hot girls i mean there's a moment like about 70 minutes into the movie where people are spraying a woman's ass with a shower nozzle and then she shakes her titties around while wearing a wet white tank top seems consensual and to michelle rodriguez's credit in 2017 when fate came out the fate ofious, the eighth one. She posted on Instagram the day that it was released on DVD. Very important to the first one. Oh, callback. She said, quote,

The Fate of the Furious is out digitally today. I hope they decide to show some love to the women of the franchise in the next one. Or I might just have to say goodbye to a loved franchise. It's been a good ride and I'm grateful for the opportunity the fans and studios have provided over the years. One love. Has there been a Fast and the Furious since The Fate of the Furious? No.

Yeah, that was the last one. So I guess it kind of remains to be seen whether they will hear her on that, but she is in the next one. So hopefully that means that i mean even for for a franchise like this even a small step and it seems like at the addition of like the gal gadot character and like letting letty do more that they're edging in the right direction but i thought it was cool for like a major star to demand it yeah yeah and i will say for like the longevity of these movies are like in the canon of them every woman does appear to be in charge of her

she makes a choice like no women seems forced into this yeah she has agency no woman is like forced to be this like sideshow car skank or whatever yeah like like yeah these these women are where they want to be doing what they want to be doing and there's I think a lot to say to that there's like nothing feels like cringy to me when you're like this woman doesn't seem to have the ability to say no to her situation sure yeah right yeah I mean I hope that it's and it almost like seems like a kind of a clever screenwriting hack that's employed there where the women are like they do question things. Sometimes they have like somewhat realistic like Mia is really frustrated and deceived. Another fun man deceives the object of his interest for the majority of the movie trope that we love.

But at least that, yeah, like they do have agency and they do ultimately make the choice. Am I going to go with what either Paul Walker or Vin Diesel wants or not? Conveniently for this screenplay, she usually chooses to do what the male protagonist wanted her to do anyways. Yes. She's also doing so much. Mia's doing so much emotional labor throughout the whole movie because she's constantly breaking up fights and like having to deal with this creep Vince who likes her and then like trying to divert that away. And like Dom's always like pissing people off. So she's always like, stop fighting.

And she's just doing a lot. And it shouldn't, the burden shouldn't be on her to have to do all this stuff. But she's constantly just being like, cut it out. Don't do that. That continues. And, in fact, it gets even, like, the labor she puts in is, like, more and more because she becomes, like, a wife and a mom and it's just like she's constantly pleading with them to not go into these dangerous situations where they are weirdly in charge of protecting the entire national security oh my god i love how the stakes continue to rise insane well they're the most fast

and furious of all the people they're the best protect us. And it becomes clear. Okay. I have a quick update on the Michelle Rodriguez thing. There was some questions of whether she would appear in Fast and the Furious 9. That was resolved just a couple of weeks ago. They confirmed she is going to be in Fast 9, but she refused to sign her contract until they had signed a female screenwriter to the movie. Oh, my God. Michelle Rodriguez. That is my cat. Isn't that the best?

That is the best choice I ever made. So yeah, Slash Film reported that she confirmed she will be back for Fast and the Furious 9 after holding out until a female screenwriter was brought on for the sequel. That means Universal has hired a female writer for this franchise for the first time ever. But as of now, the identity of this elusive female screenwriter has not been announced. It's me. Well, Jamie, congratulations. I'm not just breaking news.

I did not see that movie. It's me. I don't have a driver's license, but I'm writing Fast and Furious 9. Let's just see if they pay them the same amount. Oh, good point. Yeah. But anyways, shout out to michelle rodriguez feminist icon queer icon yes we love her indeed uh should we talk a little bit about the male

friendship that the toxic masculinity that is present in the homoerotic tension i mean it's palpable the greasy boys are very close the looks they give each other i think this might be like one of the gayest movies that exists i mean there's a lot written about like the use of homoeroticism in i mean and it is employed in action movies pretty frequently and there's so many franchises that sort of play this i mean it is like queer baiting to an extent it's not i don't know it's weird like in the fast and the furious it's never what they're saying it's just like how they're looking at each other and how they're interacting with each other while they're saying it like there is a way for vin diesel to make that i would say incredible monologue at the end

about how he doesn't fucking care about anyone in his life except his car and his car is his wife his wife is his wife yeah uh his his car wife and but like the way that him and paul walker looking at each other through it you're just like oh there's like there is a connection here like the way like male friendship the male friendships are more important than the romantic relationships yes and the movie cares more about the relationship between brian and vince and like reconciling that because like brian starts off on on vince's bad side and stays there for most of the movie but then when he saves him at the end and then calls in the helicopter to save his life like that's him being like oh finally like maybe vince will like me now and the movie cares more about reconciling that relationship than it does about developing

any of the female characters or like any of those relationships yeah so but there it's that's a tricky thing with this because there are like we haven't talked about a lot of things in this franchise that i think are generally good for the world it is one of the most diverse blockbuster franchises in existence. That's really cool. Michelle Rodriguez is a woman of color and she is like the female lead. She's a queer female of color, which is, I mean, which was not known in 2001. But still, I mean, that's cool. I do always like, and I don't know, I mean, Faye, you'll know more about how like the

male friendships develop. I wouldn't say that Brian and Dom's relationship is healthy, but they're just mostly like, look at my pipes. I can't say I love you, so I'm going to make you a 10-second car. There is that weird repression in there. But I do appreciate when attention is given to male-male friendships. I enjoy that too. And I will say, and I think I talked about this a bit on our Lord of the Rings episode, but I think there's a tendency to see a close male friendship in a movie

and then automatically assign homoeroticism to it. Because I don't know if it's just because we're so used to not seeing positive male friendships in movies. And it's like, oh, well, if two men are close, there must be some underlying homoeroticism there. Right. Which I, you know made that may be true for some male friendships and it it isn't a lot of the time so i feel like i don't know i feel like it maybe does a disservice sometimes to be like two men who are close well then they're there's it's sexy i agree with that but i i in the case of this franchise well i think it's pretty homoerotic. I think also because these movies are so enveloped in Vin Diesel, and he is a producer on them, and he has such a staunch say in what goes on in them. And then you look at his off-screen relationship with Paul Walker, and it's sort of like the

most beautiful thing I've ever seen. They are genuinely the best of friends Vin Diesel if you follow him on social media he has an ongoing hashtag Toretto Tuesday where he posts a photo of him and Paul Walker together he named his kid Pablo after him he um is constantly talking about how much he misses Paul Walker who I mean I think every listener probably knows why he did pass away a couple years ago yeah like everything Vin does seems to be a tribute to him and I just think like that kind of makes me regret mentioning this like joke of homoeroticism because I genuinely think they were like brothers and I think that's explored in the movies and kind of I think a lot

of my like perception of it is skewed by what I see outside of the movies but they just genuinely like their brotherhood is I think something we never get to see it's two dudes that are just really good friends yeah and like really care about each and I I could be mistaken I'm sure someone like in the comments will let me know but I do think they say they love each other in the movies i'm like almost 100 sure good i mean hopefully at some point yeah they've been together for 10 years and they're just like i'm gonna get you a 10 second car any day now uh yeah i don't know i mean in general i think that it's it's good i think that

i don't i mean we we can't really speak to this because we're a bunch of straight ladies. So all of our queer listeners, please give us insights. I think that there's elements of both employed and there are in a lot of this genre. But in general, I mean, any example for young men that normalizes male-male friendship, it seems like this franchise does pretty well with that so yeah they don't shy away from it for like fear of maybe like being like perceived in some sort of i don't know it's the core concept of the movies is like brotherhood and i guess more like overall familial because i do think that the women are just as important like plot wise and like development wise.

Yeah. So there's like a whole lot of butts. But then there's a whole lot of love. Wow. Does Vince die? Vince? Like that character? Yeah.

He's you don't. He's not really. He's only in the first one? That's a relief. No. He's in a few more but he's like by no means a vital character. Okay. You. He's only in the first one? That's a relief. No, he's in a few more, but he's like, by no means a vital character.

Okay. You get Ludacris in the next one. I knew that, yeah. Which, him and then Tyrese are, they come into the team. Nice.

Yeah, and then every, every film has like this iconic, like getting the team together montage, which is my favorite trope of any movie. It's, it's, those are good montages yes not all

tropes are bad oh no a montage is like my my kryptonite like jamie like you were saying the diversity uh in this movie it's like vin diesel identifies as a person of color he is um there are some i mean this kind of struck me where the the first two groups that the FBI identifies as suspects of the hijackings are Hector's group, which are, I think, all Latinx men. And then Johnny Tran's group, which are all Asian men. So it's like, oh, these people of color are the criminals. But I would also say. The people of color are also the heroes. The good guys who are also criminals.

And I would argue that they're first. But they're the heroes, though, because they're the shiniest ones. That's how you know. Yeah, that's true. That's true. But yeah, this is, I mean, considering so many franchises, so many action movies and movies in general are made up of almost entirely white people. This movie does do quite a bit better in terms of racial diversity. A big tenet of Vin producing these movies,

and I think why they do so well internationally, is he tries to get actors involved that are really iconic in different countries. So Tokyo Drift has, I don't know the actor's name, but Han is the character's name. He's like a big Japanese actor. And when they get Gal Gadot, she's Israeli. And like, I just like really commend him for his, even, I don't know, maybe if his intentions are more like capitalistic and like box office numbers. I want to think more of him and think like he just like really embodies these kind of values of familia. But I could be giving him way too much credit and just be like such a sucker for these movies.

I can't see past it. I mean, it sounds generally good to me. It seems like the cast of this movie for all like the fun drama clickbait that I've read about it. In general, I mean, it seems like they try to do right by each other. I mean, I'm still like super impressed by like Michelle Rodriguez using her platform like responsibly and to get other women work. And I mean, what Vin Diesel, I mean, that sounds like it makes business sense and kind of helps everyone. Yeah. Too.

So like, I'm not going to fault him for that. Yeah. I don't know. I appreciate this franchise. It's just too loud for me i i'm gonna say i don't appreciate this franchise nearly as much and granted i have been exposed to almost none of it but to me i mean i think there's too much of a focus on like the male friendship and the hey we're bros and we gotta stick together and yes women are present but i

think at least in in the first one and i would imagine in the later films that they could be included more meaningfully because i mean but it also sounds like they're fridged and and and dampled at a higher rate and also and and the the ratio of men to women, I think, remains pretty unequal where it's still mostly men. Also, just that these movies seem to largely be about kind of like men proving that they're awesome and fast, which like translates to who of us is the more manly, the faster you are, the more macho you you're the best man so and there's so many scenes where like men are like okay who's the faster who's the best man and i'm just like i don't care yeah well if you don't care about that then these are not gonna be the movies for you not for me i just think that like for a hyper masculine franchise i mean i will i i'm sorry if i cannot make the argument that this is even remotely a feminist franchise uh like that argument

is kind of off the table for me but like in terms of like is it a net positive thing for the world i think that there's like certain areas of it that could be argued as as a positive as far as an action franchise goes i mean well seriously that's like if as as a positive as far as an action franchise goes I mean well seriously that's like if you have a gigantic action franchise would you rather it be core in male friendship and like has a hugely diverse cast or would you rather they make more like Blade Runner movies like I just think like in this specific genre I feel like there's a lot of positive I think that's maybe why i give it so much credit because i do love action movies so then you you kind of have to narrow it down to

action movies and then in that genre this is i think one of the greater ones do i want an equally diverse female action franchise hell yeah yes but i i do i but honestly though if it was really loud i still might not see it listen i i know i know why it's that diet nausea yeah i have permanent brain brain damage from my diet nausea but there's i don't know i think that there's definitely pros and cons sure i don't hate that it exists the way i hate that other franchises exist and that's kind of all you can hope from someone that you don't hate it exists right right i don't know i mean it's but i also i'm like you know if we're going into like it is a young boy better or worse off for having seen a fast and the furious movie i don't know i don't think that they would have

more respect for women in fact they may have less i yeah i mean considering i mean like i said there's so many shots of this movie are just like look at these hot women who are again framed as literal trophies like they are the prizes to be won they're wearing next to nothing you know they're just so heavily objectified that i think you know the people seeing this are like oh women are prizes except for the one cool one who's my sister and the other cool one who's my girlfriend and they're only cool because they know how to drive good right i feel like this movie does more net negative than positive but i don't know it was also from 2001 yeah i don't know, it was also from 2001? Yeah. I don't know.

Faye, I guess we know where you fall generally. Yeah, I mean, I think it's hard to detract this movie from the rest of them, so I'm thinking franchise-wide, it's more of a net positive. I don't think a young boy would necessarily leave with more respect for women, but I don't think that the movie degrades women quite to the extent that caitlin's saying or maybe that you see in the first one which i do upon like

rewatch and note-taking realize it's like a little bit more grim than i had been remembering yeah i mean i think this this at least speaking to this, I don't think it does very well except for some elements of Letty and, like, one element of Mia. I don't know. I mean, I also, like, fully understand that's not what people go to these movies for. Like, it's not, it's like, this is one for the ladies. And it's just fucking hollow and sending bad messages. Yeah, because what's worse to me would be, we're going to remake Fast and Furious, but with all women or something. That to me is more degrading.

Being like, oh, women just want to see an identical film, but just all women or something that to me is like more degrading being like oh women just want to see an identical film but just featuring women it's like no we can see movies with men in them just the women should have development and personalities and names and speak to each other and women should get their own original franchises like please stop doing all family reboots please please please i think so much of like what i'm conditioned to think is like, well, it could be so much worse. So I think I came into it more like a little bit aggressively. Like, these are feminist films because it could be so much worse. But obviously, more dissecting it, it's like, we could do better.

We could for sure do better. I just, i yeah and with like the all-female reboot stuff i just when that was first happening i didn't really think about it and i was like oh cool like this sounds fun but then kind of in retrospect now it's just like oh okay well that sort of sets the precedent that every uh every franchise needs to be beta tested with men first to see if like you know like it has to be so and then every time that happens uh you know the redditors come out of the woodwork to just like ruin lives so i think just give women their own franchises especially because like i mean the ones that people aren't really talking about that

much as being all female reboots but like that movie the hustle that came out was essentially a reboot of dirty rotten scandals the hustle was not a good out was essentially a reboot of Dirty Rotten Scandals. The Hustle was not a good movie. Little was a reboot of Big, also not a good movie. What Men Want was a reboot of What Women Want, also not a good movie. It's just like write good original stories featuring women and don't try to take movies that had been commercial successes and reboot them with women because you're not doing a good job. Hollywood. And it sabotages women and female leads in the end, too, because when those movies don't do well, it's like, oh, well, people don't want to see movies with women in them. And it's just like, no, we just don't want to see the same movie that we didn't like the first time.

Like, why would anyone want that yeah oh so does this movie pass the bechdel test apparently it does i think it might okay there are two wild instances where women interact at all in the entire movie one is where letty comes in to toretto's and says to mia how you living girl mia does not respond second one is the one we've talked about a few times already where letty goes up to the two women who are hanging on Monica and Monica. The seven different Monicas. And she says, I smell skanks. Why don't you girls pack it up before I leave tread marks on your face?

The one who had been named Camille says okay and walks away. Love that she responds. She responds and I think sort of just like okay. Good point. Honestly. responds sort of just like, okay. Good point, honestly.

But I mean, if you're going to pass the Bechdel test, it should be a threat from one woman to another. And using a sort of derogatory word that's almost always used to attack women. Yes. Wow. Wow. So we're all in agreement. Feminist film. I'm truly they really they really did it to us yes they really those little sneaky those sneaky little bastards they made it past the test that i mean okay i take it all back feminist text yeah the the fast and the feminist

let's rate the movie on our nipple scale zero to five nipples based on its portrayal of women oh okay two and a half really yeah she's two and a half okay right in the middle who are you who you're giving your nipples to do you have any defense of the point before caitlin and y'all know where i stand you know it could be worse and that's my that's my final thought summer 2001 it could be worse yeah I'm gonna give two of my nipples to Michelle Rodriguez on her Instagram post and the half to my cat Letty yes who deserves a true icon an ally An absolute ally. I'm going to give this movie a half nipple because even though there are two female characters who the male characters who the movie is way more concerned about developing as individuals and as relationships the male friendship to each other we see them not really get to participate as much as i would like uh and it's not until

fairly late into the movie that we get to see them really doing anything at all that has any narrative impact um i mean like one of the ways that like brian and vince like try to exert dominance over each other is like trying to claim ownership of mia like they're like mia is like the object of affection and everyone's just like but she's mine right um so there's just all these different things yes it is good that we have a more racially diverse cast than we are used to seeing in movies of this nature uh but I just think that I mean between the underdeveloped female characters who we do get to know and then the rest of any woman who we see on screen is clearly just there as like hyper sexualized objectified set dressing just doesn't

really do the gender any service so i'm gonna go with a half nipple okay and i'm going to give that half nipple to i suppose michelle rodrig Rodriguez for advocating that women be more meaningful a more meaningful part of this story in the much much later movies of this franchise yes I'm gonna do a I'm gonna do one I'm gonna give it a one I I do think that there are positive elements of this franchise in general as it pertains to gender especially this movie specifically not that much there is the way that women are

framed the way the camera frames women in this movie is like super sexual and to the point where it's like funny which should never be the case it's really weird the soundtrack sucks It's really weird. The soundtrack sucks. But Ja Rule!

It's too loud. It's too loud. But yeah, I think that some elements of the male friendships, the very racially diverse cast, and the fact that there is, at very least, a queer woman of color helming the token girl in the franchise her characters hetero though as far as we can tell but but in terms of like represent i mean i think that her like being openly queer and still being in a major franchise is progress so basically only

because of michelle rodriguez because it seems like there has never been a woman behind the camera of a Fast and Furious production, based on the credits of this movie. But for the things that were given, I'm going to give it one nippy. I'm going to give it back to Michelle. Vroom, vroom, baby. Vroom. And that's the vroom on that. Faye, thank you so much.

Thank you. For being here. I think I begged you to let me do this. And I kind of got torn apart. But a lot to think about. Yeah, sometimes. And I'm not going to stop watching this and getting drunk. That's what this podcast is all about.

You're still allowed to love the things you love. I'm a firm believer. We just encourage people to examine the things that they. Absolutely. I'm a firm believer. We just encourage people to examine the things that they love critically. Oh, to close, actually, Faye, would you mind sharing the drinking game with us? Oh, okay. Yeah. I will name

a couple things I remember that are notable and I want to give a shout out to my friend Zach Kornfeld who helped develop this game with me. Wow. So you drink anytime the rock is so, so sweaty and no one else is. Any time Vin is wearing sleeves, a gratuitous butt shot,

especially in the movie where they go to Brazil, they have the same B-roll shot of the, there's like a big statue. They show that about 15 times so you're gonna want to drink every time they kind of whip around the jesus statue i think it's a woman i think maybe mary or i don't know feminist okay it's incredibly feminist um what are some other things anytime like sort of a henchman dies a lot of people die and it's it's sort of unrecognized i would say in the first one well i don't know if those deaths count to your discretion you may drink or you may not

um and anytime these just straight up defy physics um as i said this the stakes get higher and higher there are train scenes there are there are cliffs there are airplanes there are parachutes you're gonna get pretty drunk later on. And let me think if there's like a final one I can, you know, if anyone wants to DM me, I'll send them the PDF. But yeah, those are kind of the highlights. Oh, anytime you do think either Vin and The Rock or Vin and Brian are going to make out, but they don't.

Okay. Right. Nice. They get really close, like physically and emotionally. I feel like there are some charged scenes. That's beautiful. Yeah. So happy drinking. Happy drinking.

And where can we find you on the World Wide Web? I am at Faye Orlove on everything. And then the Junior High Space is at Junior High LA,Love on everything. And then the Junior High space is at JuniorHighLA, also on everything. On Hollywood Boulevard. Yes, and physically we exist as a space on Hollywood Boulevard where the skanks hang out. So come say hi.

I mean, we're all out there. I'm always there on Hollywood Boulevard because I am personally a skank. Yeah, yeah, skanks welcome. Actually, we might make new shirts. All skanks welcome. Welcome, we might make new shirts. All skanks welcome. Welcome, accepted, and applauded. Yes, and you design things.

You've got stickers and items that you should buy. I know. I didn't bring you guys gifts this time. I've got to make more fast merch. Merch. Merch. Merch. I'm Jewish, so it's actually pronounced.

Merch. Yeah, I have to make some more merch i have to be careful with the merch i make because i do get called out a lot because i have a lot of problematic faves mostly they're kardashians but i think a vin and paul retrospective mug could be called for oh sure yeah since you just got to choose the moment yeah that's all i agree but thank you so much for having me. Of course. Thanks for being here. Our stuff. You can follow us on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook.

Although, do I ever go on that website? Hardly. Ever. You know. Not to brag. But, yeah. Check us out online. Weird flex? I know.

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extra episodes a month and access to our full back catalog which is now approaching 50 extra episodes that you've never heard. So check that out. And check out our TeePublic store with all our merch, teepublic.com slash thebechdelcast,

which hopefully by the time this episode airs, I will have made the Fast and the Feminist merch. I mean, do I get a free one? Because of course you do. Yeah. So yeah, check out all our merch we've got. We've got it all. And until next time, friends. Vroom. Be, of course you do. Yeah. So, yeah, check out all our merch we've got. We've got it all. And until next time, friends.

Vroom. Beep, beep, beep. And break. Bye. Bye. Daphne Caruana Galizia was a Maltese investigative journalist who on October 16th, 2017, was assassinated. Crooks Everywhere unearths the plot to murder a one-woman WikiLeaks.

She exposed the culture of crime and corruption that were turning her beloved country into a mafia state. Listen to Crooks Everywhere on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm Gianna Pradenti. or wherever you get your podcasts. work besties you can turn to for advice. And if we don't know the answer, we bring in people who do, like negotiation expert Maury Tahiripour. If you start thinking about negotiations as just a conversation, then I think it sort of eases us a little bit. Listen to Let's Talk Offline on the iHeartRadio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Kay hasn't heard from her sister in seven years. I have a proposal for you. Come up here and document my project. All you need to do is record everything like you always do. What was that? That was live audio of a woman's nightmare.

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