The Bechdel Cast - The Fifth Element with Danielle Radford

Episode Date: January 17, 2019

This week, Jamie and Caitlin invite special guest Danielle Radford to save the world and discuss The Fifth Element on this live episode recorded at The Ruby in Los Angeles!(This episode contains spoilers)For Bechdel bonuses, sign up for our Patreon at patreon.com/bechdelcast.Follow @danielleradfordon Twitter! While you're there, you should also follow @BechdelCast, @caitlindurante and @jamieloftusHELP Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Daphne Caruana Galizia was a Maltese investigative journalist who on October 16th 2017 was assassinated. Crooks Everywhere unearthed the plot to murder a one-woman WikiLeaks. She exposed the culture of crime and corruption that were turning her beloved country into a mafia state. Listen to Crooks Everywhere on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. That's right, the only, Katherine Hahn is joining us on Las Culturistas. That's right, the queen of comedy herself. Get ready for a conversation that's as hilarious as it is insightful. Tune in for all the laughs, the stories,

and of course, the culture. Don't miss Katherine Hahn on Las Culturistas. Listen to Las Culturistas on Will Ferrell's Big Money Players Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm Gianna Pradenti. And I'm Jermaine Jackson-Gadsden. We're the hosts of Let's Talk Offline from LinkedIn News and iHeart Podcasts.

There's a lot to figure out when you're just starting your career. That's where we come in. Think of us as your work besties you can turn to for advice. And if we don't know the answer, we bring in people who do, like negotiation expert Maury Tahiripour. If you start thinking about negotiations as just a conversation, then I think it sort of eases us a little bit. Listen to Let's Talk Offline on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, everyone. It's Caitlin and Jamie. And you are about to hear our episode that

we recorded live in November, early early november about the fifth element a movie directed by luke luke basson a popular request uh we've been wanting to do this movie forever we were thrilled that daniel radford could be there with us we just wanted to say really quick at the top that we were not aware of the many allegations against the director of this movie when we recorded that episode we're now aware of them um so part of it is that a lot of the story broke after we shortly after and some did before uh but the three of us were not aware of any of this at the time this episode was recorded so So if you're looking for analysis on that end, unfortunately, we didn't know. But if you do a little research, he's basically the

Harvey Weinstein of France. Yes, has been accused of a lot of sexual misconduct, assault. And I mean, if we have any French listeners, we would love to hear your take on it. But it seems like the situation is being handled very differently. And he is continuing to work without a problem boo so just a little context up top sorry to start on a downer but danielle's amazing the episode is a blast fun so fun and we hope you enjoy it yeah on the bechdel cast the questions asked if movies have women in them are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands or do they have individualism the patriarchy's effing vast start changing it with the bechdel cast welcome to the bechdel cast hi thanks for so the movie we're covering today is the fifth element by round of applause who has

seen it great oh okay and is there anyone who hasn't i hadn't so don't be shy okay my soul sibling yeah we're talking about the fifth element today. I am, man, what a ride. Did you know the future is not female? The future is French. We've got a French-ass patriarchy to look forward to according to this movie. Yeah, so we use the Bechdel test as a jumping off point to initiate a larger conversation about the representation and portrayal of women in movies. And what is the Bechdel test as a jumping off point to initiate a larger conversation about the representation

and portrayal of women in movies. And what is the Bechdel test? Well, the Bechdel test is a metric created originally by cartoonist Alison Bechdel that requires a piece of media include two female identifying characters with names for our purposes who speak about something other than a man to each other for more than two lines of dialogue you think it'd be easy you would think and yet this movie doesn't pass whoops oh we blew it at the top of the show i'm so i am so tired of people being like

the show is like does it pass the bechdel test like obviously no it doesn't ever if you're listening for 70 minutes to be like oh does it pass like grow up like that's you know it's a job what i what i what i'm trying to say I'm sorry, I've had half a Mike's heart and I'm fucked up. Is that it is a jumping off point for discussion. It is not by any means. There are some movies we've done that pass the Bechdel test by two female identifying characters telling each other to kill themselves. So, you know, it is not a metric of being a feminist icon by any means. No, no, no, no, no.

And tonight, to join us in our discussion, we've got a wonderful guest. She's the best. You know her from Screen Junkies and Tights and Fights. It's Danielle Rodford!

Hi. Welcome. I did it. Also, I should have brought my purse because I don't sit like a lady. And that's never more evident when I don't just have my purse here to save me from showing up.

Well, let's redefine how sitting like a lady looks. Okay, I don't sit like a person who doesn't care if you see her vagina. Right. I love that framing. So, well, maybe not like a person who doesn't care if you see her vagina. Right. I love that framing. So maybe not like a lady, but just like a human who doesn't want to be arrested. Okay. I only wear skirts and I don't cross my legs.

Sup, guys? An icon in your own right. I am the Jaden Smith of guests at this podcast. Okay, so we're talking about the fifth element danielle what is your history your relationship with the movie so this is one of my favorite movies um so uh i will preface this by saying i love things that are bad uh i i i do not think this movie is bad i think this movie is great and i think that it doesn't pass my bad test but it does come really goddamn close.

What is that? I have a really specific test for what makes a good bad movie. First of all, obviously it has to be bad. That's the first thing. Of course. Obviously. Secondly, it has to be sincere. It can't be like snakes on the plane where they're like, oh, we're going to make a

bad movie. It's like, no. we're gonna make a bad movie it's like no the people making it even if it's intentionally campy the people making it have to care about what they are doing there's a reason why black dynamite while it is obviously meant to be this like pastiche is also still a really fun bad movie and not just like a cynical we tried to make a bad movie and third you gotta have spectacle there has to be spectacle of some kind whether it's like you know in the case of showgirls it's all of the dancing or whether it's a sci-fi movie and there is good or bad CGI or makeup or characters or whether you just have Tommy Wiseau which which is spectacle on his own.

What's your favorite bad movie? Oh, gosh. The Last Dragon. Ooh, I've never seen that one. Ooh, it's so good. Is it good? And apparently bad. Yeah, yeah.

So in the 80s, Barry Gordy decided that black folks really like karate, so he decided to make a movie which is not a musical, wink wink, but is filled with the music of Motown in the 80s, which as most of you know, no one was listening to. There were some, but not a whole bunch.

It starred a guy named Ty Mock, one name, but it also starred a prince protege, an ex-prince protege named Vanity. I want to watch this movie really bad. Come to our next live show. one name, but it also started a prince protege, an ex-prince protege named Vanity. Oh my god. I want to watch this movie really bad. Come to our next live show. We'll be covering Last Dragon. What's your favorite bad movie, really quick?

I have exquisite taste, so I don't like any bad movies. No. Probably like Spice World or something. Solid. Oh, that's not a bad movie. Alan Cummings in it, that doesn't count.

Right. I have a tie between I, Frankenstein and Jobs, the one with Ashton Kutcher. Ooh. And Ashton Kutcher pretending like he's a character actor is spectacle. It is. He was like, here's my nomination.

Wink, wink. Hey, guys, it's me. It's Ashton Kutcher. He's like, I'm a little too handsome, you know? That's kind of his thing. I'm an eternal Nick. That is kind of like my favorite kind of bad biopic is when you feel like the lead actor even though they're technically not as con are constantly looking like you know this isn't me

right it's just kind of funny i'm i'm ashton kutcher i'm ashton kutcher y'all know i fucked right yeah i don't know how i can i don't even know how to turn a computer on. It's like, oh, cool. Okay, so the fifth element. Sorry to derail this conversation. So the fifth element, you think it's a good, bad movie. Yes. And it's one of your favorites. It's one of my favorites.

It is also one of my Oma's favorites, which any time my Oma loves a movie, I know it's bad. So it's great. Awesome. Jamie, what's your history? Well, as I've been critiqued and it's bad, so it's great. Awesome. Jamie, what's your history? Well, as I've been critiqued and praised for, I saw it this morning. I have no,

I had no history with this movie. I wasn't aware. It was a movie that was famous so much that I pushed back. I was like, no one's seen that movie. And I was informed that nearly everyone

but me had seen that movie and that I am a dumbass. So I saw it today. Great. But I enjoyed it. That's surprising because it's not your genre. No, I'm not normally a sci-fi person. But I mean, the outfits, the wigs, you feel like at any moment in this movie, you're like,

someone could break into song. Given the aesthetic of the movie and the vibe the actors are putting out there could be a musical number but there just simply isn't yeah it was a choice yes also one of my favorites i saw it for the first time i think in college i don't know if you know this but i did go to film school twice um i do have a master's degree in screenwriting from Boston University. I would never bring it up, but I do. Oh, wow. No one likes the bits. Thanks.

Okay. Thank you. A smattering. Okay. But yeah, I really enjoyed this movie. Upon the rewatch, though, it felt a little tedious. It's long. I don't remember it being over two hours long.

Two and a half hours long. Yeah. No, it's like two hours and six minutes. No, it's two and a half hours long. No, it's like two hours and six minutes. No, it's two and a half hours long. Really? I watched it on Dailymotion.com, Galen. It's two and a half hours long. Dailymotion.com for all your pirated video needs.

They're not sponsoring this. I simply didn't want to pay. It's too old. If a movie came out before 2005, I won't pay to watch it. It should just be free at that point. It should. I'm just like, you know what? You had your chance to get my money. Why are we still paying for Chinatown? I paid for Miss Congeniality recently and I was furious. No, yeah. Dailymotion.com. So there's no excuse.

Well, they were wrong, because you apparently watched an extended cut, because it's certainly not... Oh, yeah, because if you watch it on Dailymotion, they have to slow it down, so it tricks the algorithm. So you're probably watching... The video I watched was two hours and 36 minutes long.

Yeah, so you're watching the version where Rudy Rod is talking like a normal person. Oh, no! Oh, no! It's 20 extra minutes right there. Well, you know what? Because they're not our sponsor, fuckdailymotion.com. Upload better pirated files.

Yeah, so it's long, and it was a little tedious. There's lots to talk about, and I'm excited to do that. So without much further ado, I'll do that recap that we're all so fond of. Oh, wow. Oh, wow. All right, we open. It's 1914 in Egypt. What is this, The Mummy starring Brandon Fraser?

Literally. Yeah. There are a lot of Waikai archaeologists. 1914 in Egypt. What is this? The Mummy starring Brandon Fraser? Literally. Yeah. There are a lot of white guy archaeologists. I love how in any movie that opens around World War I, everyone's like, colonialism was awesome, right? Look at all this cool stuff we found that no one's seen before. Yeah, we stole it, but it was for the greater good.

It was just horrible. And in this movie, they're was for the greater good. Like, it was just horrible. And in this movie, they're, like, looking at some hieroglyphics, and they tell of this evil force that's going to show up soon, but there's a weapon against it, the four elements plus a fifth element. I spent a lot of this movie confused because I forgot that we were talking about elements a la Avatar the Last Airbender and not senses where I was like oh like the movie I turned it on I was like oh taste probably

just a wild guess but they're talking about elements and I don't know how many for example earth fire wind and water and taste taste. And then air and taste. So there's actually six, and they were wrong. Okay, so those four elements plus taste plus a fifth element will combine to make a weapon that will fight against this impending evil. And then all these aliens show up, and they're like, we're taking these stones that represent each one of the elements. And we say aliens, but they're Muppets. They're something.

They're robots? Robot aliens? They look like sarcophagi that move. Ooh, yeah. Kind of, yeah. And they're like, hey, priest that's here, make sure you pass down this information, because the evil stuff is going to come in 300 years.

The aliens give so much exposition. They're like, remember, 300 years, only priests could pass down. And he's like, I will do that. But it's supposed to be scary also. And only the whitest of priests. Yes. Yes. And then we got to, believe it or not, 300 years later, 2214.

Okay, so I read on the Wikipedia, okay, my two favorite websites, dailymotion.com, wikipedia.com, that it's 2263. Like it's over three years in the future. So it's not an exact science, I guess. But there's, yeah, so in the future. So maybe evil had been gathering.

And it took it three years to get to the point where it was scaring Zeus tiny the guy who played the president yes yes so it's like far in the future there's still patriarchy but it's French now

and men wear sexy tank tops that's more the vibe of this patriarchy. And so this ominous planet thing shows up. The president and the military try to destroy it, but every time they do that, it just gets more evil, so they're like, oh no. And also this was during a period

where having a black president seemed very sci-fi. Right. What was the other, was deep impact deep impact another one where it was like we only get a black president when the world's about to oh shit so then uh father cornelius shows up and he's all like hey this is the evil thing the priest it's not the same actor but it may as well be the same actor who's like, hey, that thing. Right, except now it's Bilbo Baggins.

Ian Holm. Yeah. Okay, so then we meet Corbin Dallas. That's Bruce Willis' character. Not to be confused with Corbin Blue for this in the audience who are like, wait a second. Wait, what's that from? He's...

Is this like a D-com? Nickelodeon? Yes, it is a D-com thing. Corbin Bleu was in the High School Musical franchise to start, and then he went on to have a successful career. He's great. He's in Beetlejuice the Musical in Washington, D.C. right now. Wow.

That is something that I found out on purpose. I like to keep up with him. Okay, so Corbin Dallas, he is a cab driver in New York City. Ever heard of it? But it's future, so air cars.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's ex-military because Bruce Willis can't play someone who's not either a cop or in the military. He's a tough guy, but he's got a cat, too. Now would be a good time to bring up the fact that cats do have eight nipples. And that's Cat Facts with Caitlin.

Okay. And his whole thing is he's looking for the perfect woman. The word perfect is invoked so many times in reference to like, you know, 5'9", blue eyes, good skin. Perfect. And you're like, it's so many times the word perfect is used in reference to someone who is being exploited by the government. It's bad. i'm a weapon it's bad uh okay so then the mondo shu shu in those are the good aliens from the beginning of the movie yeah the muppets literally every alien in every universe sounds like someone

who is pretending like they know how to speak Japanese, but it's fine. Fair. Yeah. So they show up. They're like, we're here to help. We've got those stones. But then. The stones.

The stones bother me. It is like, what some point in the middle of the movie all of a sudden it's all about the stones and every main character every other line to be like the stones where are the stones uh okay so they're like here we're here to help but the their ship crashes because some bad aliens show up and shoot it down but there's a lone survivor aka it's like she's a hand yeah it's a hand which is comprised of like very highly advanced genetic material um so some engineers show up some perverts in new york yeah bring her back to life no women in stem in that no just No, just perverts in STEM.

Bring her back to life. And it turns out she's a sexy lady. Parentheses, a nude. Yes. And they're like, oh, God, she's perfect. And then. The word perfect is invoked no less than four times in that scene. Yes. And then they're like, put bandages on her.

And then the bandages form a sexy leotard. That's not how bandages work. No, but bandages in the future not only are not used to protect against injury that doesn't exist, they also just magically form around your body and snap off and never come off. Yeah, around your little butt. And I was like, oh, these are bandages that follow the Instagram policy. It's how convenient.

Incredible. They're like bondages. It seems like that. She was strapped to the bed. And then when she got up, it was like, ugh, I guess you were sexier and more perfect when you were strapped to this bed. And then they become like her.

And then they're like, I guess we better become a leotard that will become the choice of the girl who's unlike the other girls at all college Halloween parties until kingdom fucking come. So then she escapes from this lab, and she ends up in the backseat of our friend Corbin Dallas's cab. Not Corbin Blue. Not Corbin Blue. Again, can't say it enough.

He was a baby. So because she's so perfect and because he thinks she's hot, he helps her escape from the cops and he takes her to Father Cornelius and he's like, oh shit, this is the fifth element. She's perfect. It's taste. We can tell because she's white.

Right. Yes. And we learn her name is Leeloo. And then the priest is like, get out of here, Bruce Willis. And then Bruce Willis is like, but my tank top. And the priest is like, get out of here, Bruce Willis. And then... Bruce Willis is like, but my tank top. And the priest is like, I respect your tank top.

It's very good, but leave. It has like a cutout of the back. There's two cutouts on the back. It's really a cute... I was telling Danielle, I think it's like a tank top that I would wear today. Yeah, it feels like

it was meant to show off how hot 90s Bruce Willis still was, you know, back when he cared about acting. It's not even that his body is hot,

it's just like, ah, you're still doing this because you like it. But it is one of those things where it's like, I feel like that is the outfit they would give to a woman now to be like,

see, we're relevant. Yeah, they're like Zara. She doesn't just have to wear two Band-Aids. She could definitely wear this tank top outfit and go after Aperture. Yeah, a lot of Zara inspo from these outfits. This is like a fun period for Bruce Willis where he's famous enough that he's like,

you know, I'm just going to try. I'm going to play the same character without doubt every single time however maybe i'll wear a tank top and we're like you know what good for you yeah maybe i'll be bruce willis in space this time no one's ready for that right like okay we've mastered bruce willis on earth where do we go tank top bruce willis in space you play a harmonica in space does it make a sound we've got to ask him uh okay so then they're like where are the stones that are supposed to protect us and lulu is like oh we gave them to this diva who sings opera. Let's go to that place, which is called Flotsam Paradise. But then also there's this bad guy, Zorg, played by Gary Oldman, Boo.

Boo. Who is also trying to get the stones. The stones. It's the new his wife. I think if we're talking about Gary Oldman getting the stones, we have to say the stones. The stones. Oh, right, right, right. Yeah, that is how he's done we have to get the stone and then also light that man on fire yeah for those who aren't in the know uh he beat his wife and he sucks yes anyway to those late to the gary oldman is canceled train he he's been canceled yes so then because corbin dallas is like good

thing i'm ex-military this general comes around he's like hey we need you to go to flotsam paradise to protect the diva is that what the mission is i don't know because plot right so he's like okay i'll go there and then so everyone's trying to get to flotsam paradise now so the priest is there lily is there corbin dallas is there the bad guys are there turns out those stones that we've all been looking for uh they are inside of the big tall blue woman because that's what women are for carrying important things inside of us and dying immediately. And then Bruce Willis is smart enough to be like, let me punch this

dead woman. Therefore, launching us into the third act of the movie. And we're like, yay! He punches a dead woman in her stomach, puncturing her flesh, and wins.

We did it. Yay! So now the good guys have the stones, and the bad guys are trying to get them, so there's a fight, and then they go to Egypt, and that big evil ball is looming towards Earth. So they go to Egypt,

and they're like, we gotta get those stones. And So they go to Egypt and they're like, we got to get those stones. And then they go to this like tomb that we saw in the beginning of the movie. And they're like, Oh, how do we do this? And then they figured out that like, you have to blow on the stones and set them on fire.

You know, the corresponding elements. And then, uh, it saves the day. The stones are so stupid. There's like, yeah, it's like four MacGuffins. Another draft of the script, we could cut the stones.

I think. I think the stones are a scentsy candle. Ooh, interesting. I don't know if your college or high school friends have hit you up yet to try to sell you on multi-level marketing schemes. Where it's like well look our candles don't need fire some of them do but some of them you can put on a heating element and then some of

them you can blow on and then some of them you need a girl to remember what love is i feel like that's caitlin jp cait, I have to ask consent for something. Please. Can we take a break? I grant you permission and consent to take a break. A very progressive transition to advertisement. Wow. Daphne Caruana Galizia was a Maltese investigative journalist

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The only difference between the person who doesn't get the job and the bring in experts who do, like resume specialist Morgan Sanner. The only difference between the person who doesn't get the job and the person who gets the job is usually who applies. Yeah, I think a lot about that quote. What is it like you miss 100 percent of the shots you never take? Yeah, rejection is scary, but it's better than you rejecting yourself. Together, we'll share what it really takes to thrive in the early years of your career without sacrificing your sanity or sleep. Listen to Let's Talk Offline on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, everybody, this is Matt Rogers. And Bowen Yang. We've got some exciting news for you. You know, we're always bringing you the best guests, right? Well, this week, we're taking

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Oh my God, I would love it. I have to watch Lost. Oh, you have to. No, I God, I would love it. I have to watch Lost. No, I know. I'm so behind. Katherine Honkin's thing. Oh, I'm really good at karaoke. What's your song? Oh, I love a ballad. I felt Bjork's music.

I just was like, who is this person? I gotta hawk this slalom, Lugie. Not hawk the slalom. I absolutely love it. It was somehow Shakespearean when you said it. It was somehow gorgeous. Yee, my slok, you hollum.

Listen to Las Culturistas on Will Ferrell's Big Money Players Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The whole thing with this movie is it's like, okay, so we've got a woman as Christ's figure. The twist is she doesn't get to do fucking anything. And she needs hetero white love to create taste. Oh, the fifth oh yeah or something yeah i'm not totally sure no that's pretty much it yeah but it ends with like they kiss a beam of light for their boring love right explodes out from them and then it cuts forward to like the president being like cool good that happened and then

he calls bruce willis's mom who's like a very stereotypically like naggy mom and she's like the president sucks and then the president's like what the heck and then we got to Bruce Willis fucking and then the movie's over. You're like, we can't end the movie with, I feel like that's like a contractual thing for Bruce Willis. He's like, I have to be fucking on screen or I won't do it. I don't care how out of plot it seems.

I feel like he doesn't fuck that much in movies. Really? Yeah. He fucks. I feel like it's more of that much in movies. Really? Yeah. He fucks... I feel like it's more of the threat that he will fuck. It's like we know that the intent is that he's so sexy that he will be fucked. He and Alan Rickman don't fuck in that movie.

Maybe I'm watching the wrong movie. If you're watching them on dailymotion.com, who knows what you're seeing. That would be really funny if i was just watching you the porn version of the movie i'm being like yeah uh-huh really not fair to women uh but yeah so we do see him fuck at this movie and that was the ending really threw me. I did not see the president naggy mom fucking three punch in a row. Well, they're also there. So they're fucking in the like rejuvenation chamber or whatever it is they call it. Like they're in the chamber where she was born.

That's fucking weird. Oh, yeah. It's like, yeah, they're fucking in her mom. Yeah. Whoa. That's like that's where that's where she became a person. And it's great because she still isn't quite one yet. So you can just take her back there and just bang her inside of it.

Well, that's a great transition into one of the main talking points for this movie. And part of the reason that we had it on our radar of stuff we wanted to cover in the first place. Yes. And that, of course, is the Born Sexy Yesterday trope. If you're not familiar, this is a trope that was, the name was coined by Jonathan McIntosh on his, one of his pop culture detective video essays. But it basically describes a trope that's like very common in sci-fi especially. And it's characterized by an adult woman being physically mature and sexual but she has the brain and naivete of a baby and part of the funny thing about this trope is it is rooted in per that video and

the read of most people i hope is like is is it's very much rooted in male insecurity that is like they can't hack it with women who have lived any manner of life and so they're like what if it's a body i want to fuck but someone who doesn't know anything and has never met anyone i would look great to someone who doesn't know anyone and what if my dick was the first dick she saw exactly like what if i had a like it it is very sinister and like deeply rooted in the way it is but describing it is very silly there's like a lot of examples and some of them are given by macintosh but there are examples of reverses of this trope, but the way it's treated by the movie is very silly. Like Big is a great example of a baby brain in a grown man's body, but the

man in that movie is not sexualized in a deep way. Most of the stuff he's doing is played for laughs and played for like like isn't this ridiculous blah blah blah and so it is as much as you get the argument that it's played for men and women in movies the way it's treated by the camera and by the plot is always very different and it's certainly i would say more common uh for the born sexy yesterday character to be a woman in most cases yeah i mean it's like not like the men they're like we've got to see his dick like there's but like in this in this first shot evan lee lou we see her completely new a very like gratuitous nude shot of her and yeah like

you were saying it's problematic on a number of levels one because this character usually ends up being the love interest of the male hero because it's like the first man she ever meets. She's like, well, I don't know anyone else, so you're the one. That's why we all

have daddy issues. And it, yeah, it's like this unequal power dynamic. Like you said, it's like based on male insecurities and like the fear

of being inadequate both like intellectually and sexually. So, yeah. And also I think, you I think it's where well actually comes from. It's like a way to manifest mansplaining. Totally. Oh, I get to explain everything to her. Yeah.

And then she gone fuck. Right. Because usually in these stories, it ends up teaching her everything about the world and including sex. So yeah, it basically allows them to fulfill this fantasy where it's like, I'm the awesomest guy you've ever seen and here's everything I know.

Yeah, it's like this creepy flattening of sexy professor. Yes, yes. Where it's tricky because it's like, we're not even saying that characters shouldn't be able to learn from each other regardless of gender, but it's so unequal that it's like, oh, this person doesn't know how to eat. Don't date them.

You don't know what a spoon is. You don't know how flatware works. Or like, Leeloo doesn't know how showers work, and that is something that he's like, oh my God, your nipples. You're just like, no, that's not what is the focus. That doesn't make sense. It's a very frustrating trope.

And it is so extremely common. I mean, it comes up in movies even now. Like, it was coming up in Tron. And then what the fuck is the movie where Oscar Isaac's a hot scientist? Oh, Ex Machina. Ex Machina is another one i mean if you can it can be argued it comes up in wonder woman quite a bit yeah it does it absolutely does and it's it's frustrating because another thing about that trope to sort of neutralize it a little

bit is that very often the woman has like a skill or two that is impressive to the man which is usually that she can sort of fight she can't be creepy she kicks high you're like well a baby can't do that so i can have sex with her like you're just like the last time you saw a baby shoot a gun so i think it's like fair that we are married like no it is a very it's a very complex trope like like the guys are trying to get you at every corner of like well babies don't shoot guns and i could fuck a baby if it was a lady look she needs help bathing but like she could beat me up so it's fine she remember that scene yeah we're dating well that leads me to another thing i wanted to talk about where so her whole thing is that she's the supreme being she's the fifth element like the thing that's needed to like save the world from

this like catastrophic event and she has the ability to like absorb all the information in the world in a matter of seconds. She learns very, very quickly, which sounds cool, but ultimately doesn't serve the plot very much. No. Well, it serves the fucking Bruce Willis parts of the plot. Well, but you would think

if she knew the history of the world, she would know not to trust Bruce Willis. Yeah, it conveniently misses out on patriarchy while it goes through all of the wars. She finds out on patriarchy while it goes through all of the wars she finds out about patriarchy at literally the last second she's like oh no what is this and but then she's she learns about war and patriarchy in the third act and then you see her like she's like and she's crying and she's gonna win even though she's literally been kicking people in the face because they were trying to get to another woman yeah she's been she's been

engaging in war and she's like what's war she's like oh no it's bad and then she learns about war and patriarchy but her solution to that is bruce willis fuck me like that's not the solution to that kiss me on the stone yeah oh now you're all thinking of her with his with his head she has this like uncanny ability to like learn everything and be the smartest person ever really but the only thing that he appreciates her for is how she looks and this is a common thing that happens by a number of characters where they're like they talk about her as if she's an object they call her a possession they call her like they keep talking about how perfect she is she's spoken about as if she's an item for right the whole movie and that doesn't change and even when she does learn it's that thing of like,

well, she learns, but she doesn't have emotional intelligence. So she has book learning, and she gets things, but she doesn't like, she still isn't capable. She's a computer, basically. She's a computer, but that you can fuck her.

Yeah, that Corbin Dallas is like, ooh, yeah, like 5'9", and that hot stuff. You know, the further we get from weird science, the more that I'm like, ooh, yeah, like 5'9", and that hot stuff. You know, the further we get from weird science, the more that I'm like, that chick was right. Punch those nerds in the face

or however that movie was. Oh, right, yeah. Kill them all. Oh, boy, that movie. God. Yeah. The Bruce Willis tank top I would like to just bring up again.

Yeah, I just think it's dumb that she has the ability to learn like an infinite amount of knowledge but he is only impressed by how attractive she is well the thing that they're trying to do I mean this movie is all over the place and I think part of the reason it is

is I did some research on the origin of where this movie came from and it's partially built from a treatment or a short story the director wrote when he was a teenager. And so if you saw this movie and you're like, seems like a horny French boy's fantasy, you're exactly right.

Like, what if a horny French boy had millions of dollars? This movie answers that question. Well, and Besson has always been like, you know, he was a big, and you got to see a lot of what he based that on in Valerian, which no one watched. I heard it was really bad. I weirdly saw that movie. Sorry.

Yeah. Did you like it? No. Yeah. Cause it's another one where it's like this time, instead of plucking a woman out of time and making her the perfect woman, they pluck a woman out of time. And she's still

in this series which is based on this old French like newspaper serial it's like their version of Valiant or whatever which is another thing that none of us here watched or read in the cartoon section it was the one that you skipped or you put dicks on like me

and so in that series the dude from the future like they're also time travelers he goes back and he grabs this peasant woman from i want to say the 17th or 18th century um and so again it's that thing of like oh you're so pretty and so you know you're of these values but i still have to teach you about this modern world right and that's where like so much of what the fifth element became was based on this and i think you made a great point about wonder woman too of like i'm thinking back to our wonder woman episode where that was something we didn't pick up on at the time of like even a year ago of like yeah the male lead in that movie one of the chris's i don't fucking know which

pine had to teach he's the one who just showed off his pinus in that movie on Netflix. Is that the one? I honestly, I have Chris blindness. I can't tell any of them apart. I don't know. There's too many. But it's a frustrating trope. And so it was built from something he'd wanted to do since he was a teenager.

It seems like very little edits were made from his little horny story uh so that's just a fact yeah another thing i wanted to bring i mean so she is one of very few female characters in the movie she's the only one that is like a primary character there are quite a few women with speaking roles in the movie, but they're mostly in tertiary roles, and they're usually in service roles. There's a lot of secretaries, hostesses. There's secretaries, flight attendants. Someone who gets super, super banged by a room.

Yeah. There's a lot to unpack there. I think it's interesting that they... It's weird, because I feel like what frustrated me about this movie, even though I ultimately did like it, is that this movie contradicts itself in so many ways, where it's trying to have it so many ways, where it's like, with Leeloo,

you're given basically a female Christ-like figure, but she doesn't get to do any of the cool stuff that comes with being a christ-like figure like you've got if you were talking movie christ-like figures you know you've got your fucking luke skywalkers you got your harry potters you got your jesus christ you got you got like and and the the thing about being a christ figure is at some point you get to not be a baby and do something and she doesn't get to do that yeah it comes with a leadership role right at a certain point you get to not be a baby and do something and she doesn't get to do that yeah it comes with a leadership role right at a certain point you know you look at a buffy and the thing

about if you look at a buffy she kicks a lot of ass and she's a young girl but part of being the slater and then obviously there's problems with that series too but part of being the slayers it comes with a natural leadership ability yeah typically a dude, even if he discovers two days ago that he can maybe use the force, kind of if he squints, he suddenly becomes someone very important to the rebellion. And not just because he can kind of maybe do a thing,

but because they respect him for his brain and for his mind, and he suddenly becomes a leader of people. And with the born sexy babies, they never get to get past the baby phase. Yeah, she's a very precocious child. Yeah, like even Wonder Woman, she does become kind of

a leader, but even then it's mostly when it's her and the Pine separated. And he's like, oh, I've seen what she's doing and so I'll go ahead and let her do it. But like as far as being a tactician or a military leader or someone who has the respect of folks,

Leeloo never gets that. And she could murder all of them. Right. And then she passes. And you should respect an angry baby even more. And she kind of conveniently tends to fall limp or pass out when it would be convenient for Bruce Willis' character to suddenly be useful yeah

it's like jean gray in the x-men cartoon yes yeah so there is a sequence when they're on the flotsam jetsam place and then they're like queer icons flotsam and jetsam i was like what is that from okay uh the paradise hotel which is basically titanic i think we can all agree. Yes. They do evacuate, and it does not work out. But there's a sequence where Leeloo is single-handedly fighting a bunch of the bad aliens, and then we're like, okay, great, I guess she can fight because she looked up. It's basically that same sequence from The Matrix when she's like, I know Kung Fu, and then she even does this motion with her hand. But this movie came before the matrix it's probably a reference to something else anyway so the she's like fighting off all these bad guys and then for no reason she like starts to

die like she becomes completely damseled and like is just limp and can't do anything for the whole third act. And the only thing that will revive her is Bruce Willis' kisses. Yeah, just true love's kiss. At the end of the day, it's true love's fucking kiss. That's all it does. Hey, speaking of kisses, let's talk about the surprise kiss scene that happens.

Yeah, I guess we have to. Okay, so this one, here's how it goes. Leeloo is sleeping. Repeat, unconscious, not conscious, cannot tell what's going on. Bruce Willis tries to kiss her. In the tank top of all tops. And then she holds a gun to his head,

and he's like, you're right, I shouldn't have done that. I shouldn't have tried to kiss you, but he's only saying that because there's a gun to his head. He's trying to save his life. And then she says something in her, like, divine language. And then his defense is, he said to wake you gently. And I thought you would remember me from the cab, as if, you know...

Have you ever wanted someone you met in a cab to kiss you while you're sleeping? That's like if someone was like, oh, I'm sorry i molested you but remember me from the uber pool you're like no and get away from me man when i that that whole kissing someone while they're sleeping thing was so prevalent that when i was a kid i would think it was cute to run up on my parents and kiss them on the cheek while they were sleeping and it took me three times to

realize that's fucking terrifying and it ends with adults screaming yeah and that rings true till today yes that's so oh that's so funny uh and then okay so then he condescends to her and he's like call me when you can speak english jk but not really you dick she speaks like 80 languages sorry she didn't get to english and then later he's like oh what was that thing that she said and then uh the priest translates it to never without my permission so in this case of the surprise kiss in this movie at least consent is acknowledged and she does hold a gun to his head for trying to surprise kiss him but he is not punished at all really because then he ends up getting to kiss her later for reasons that don't make sense but you know when you have a man and a woman in a

story together they better kiss on each other at the end. What else are they doing? That's just a world to save and a universe and some stones. That's difficult. Stones. That makes it even more frustrating for me, though, when it's like the movie demonstrates, yeah, we know what consent is. We know how it works.

We just don't care. That's even more frustrating when, I mean, it's frustrating and unacceptable across the board. But you've got a somewhat different situation when you've got, for instance, Brandon Fraser, my king, the mummy. Surprise kissing in The Mummy. And it's never commented on. And the way that movie positions it is that they don't know what they're doing. Like they're stupid. Well, in that movie uh he's surprised kisses rachel weiss and then she's like and then she falls in love and you're like

oh this movie's for idiots okay got it but this movie is like no not without my permission and then you're like oh cool we're on the right track and they're like just kidding we're not we're gonna keep getting this woman naked and the movie won't, like the world will end unless she gets like kissed by this guy who molested her at the beginning of the movie. Awesome. I wanted to talk more about that.

The way that, just the wardrobe of this movie, the way women are dressed, it's, with Leeloo especially, we already talked about the straps that somehow magically become like a bathing suit and it doesn't get better as the movie goes on it's like turns into a different leotard but this one sort of has sleeves yeah and it's it's matching though uh bruce's orange

tank top so they match fine yeah it's great um but yeah we see her nipples i think no less than three times in the movie she's always because because she doesn't understand social norms, so that gives her permission to just be like, oh, naked. And even the blue singing lady is wearing a dress that looks like she's naked. Right. Like she's wearing a flesh-colored for her dress. But don't worry, that scene ends with her

dying and getting punched in the stomach. Where the stones have been hidden. We're not meant to sexualize her. She's meant to be our mom. It's like she's sexy until she's dead, and then she's mommy. And you're like, what is this fucking movie?

But then the women who are like, you know, the flight attendants and things like that, they're wearing these like very scant uniforms. The McDonald's women. Oh, yeah. Yeah, it's the party plane. That's what it is, right? It looks like, you remember in Iron Man

when all of a sudden all the stewardesses are on the pole? But in the beginning they pretend like they're not going to be on a pole and they're going to be just flight attendants? It's in the first Iron Man. Oh, my God, I haven't seen that movie. Oh, yeah, so it's a terrible scene and it's meant to be part of why Tony Stark sucks. It's meant to be part of why Tony Stark sucks.

But in this movie, all of the women are dressed like the Halloween version of a flight attendant. Yeah, patriarchy is alive and well in 2263. Yes. Yeah, the way that she's dressed throughout the movie, through the very end, is like she starts nude, she ends nude,

and in between there's a series of scantily clad outfits. Always. And the way she's filmed is always very, I mean, fully male gaze. There's no commentary being made at all. And on that note, let's take a quick break. What do you say? Sounds good. All right. Daphne Caruana Galizia was a Maltese investigative journalist who on October 16th, 2017,

was murdered. There are crooks everywhere you look now. The situation is desperate. My name is Manuel Delia. I am one of the hosts of Crooks Everywhere, a podcast that unhurts the plot to murder a one-woman Wikileaks. Daphne exposed the culture of crime and corruption that were turning her beloved country into a mafia state. And she paid the ultimate price. Listen to Crooks everywhere on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm Gianna Pradente.

And I'm Jemay Jackson-Gadsden. We're the hosts of Let's Talk Offline, a new podcast from LinkedIn News and iHeart Podcasts. When you're just starting out in your career, you have a lot of questions. Like, how do I speak up when I'm feeling overwhelmed? Or, can I negotiate a higher salary if this is my first real job? Girl, yes. Each week, we answer your unfiltered work questions. Think of us as your work besties you can turn to for advice. And if we don't know the answer, we bring in experts who do, like resume specialist Morgan Santer. The only difference between the

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Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey everybody, this is Matt Rogers. And Bowen Yang. We've got some exciting news for you. You know we're always bringing you the best guests, right? Well, this week we're taking it to the next level. The one, the only Katherine Hahn is joining us on Lost Culture East. That's right.

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Can we talk about Ruby Road? We better. Queer icon? I don't know. Pansexual icon. Pansexual, yes. Possibly. I do find it interesting that this feels like they're trying to have it both ways.

We're going to have a dude who is hypersexual, turns on all the ladies, all of this stuff. But in order to make sure that he is not more sexy or sexual than our lead we have to give him parts that are effeminate it is like a very 90s way of looking at that i i hear a lot of the audience this is the thing i've thought about yeah as another pansexual icon um yes who can't close your legs so yeah it is interesting because obviously like he does have effeminate moments and but he is also like banging down stewardesses in weird ways maybe more coercy not super consensually ways i yeah um which we'll talk about but it's also yeah so they wanted clearly to make this character that's like super sexy. Everyone wants to be with him. But how do we make him not a threat for our hero for the love of our baby

woman? Right. He's also basically doing a podcast, the whole thing. He's like, he's like talking into a mic. He's like, it's my show from five to seven.

Like where the show is or where it's being broadcast. It's like, this could be anyone in Los Angeles. It's on iTunes somewhere Casper mattresses guys Blue Apron delivered 50 pounds of seafood onto my doorstep the other day and I don't know why they did

yeah he's got this like entourage of like men who are like all did. Yeah, he's got this, like, entourage of, like, men who are, like, all kind of queer-coded. He's like... Coming. Coming, my man. Yeah, coming. And it's also a way to, like, slide in some black people that weren't, you know, house musicians in the 90s in England, which is what basically all of the other black people are, were either English models or English rappers.

Yeah. A lot of... It's very very European a lot of this movie Ruby Road is is a tricky character I feel like a very like very much falls under the umbrella that we come up with 90s movies all the time which is like kind of like what you're saying Danielle is like a movie trying to have it both ways it's like oh this is some manner or impression of queer representation but don't worry there's still very bad to women and like yes it's some manner of queer representation but don't worry technically if you wrote them out of the script the movie would be no different they really don't push the story forward in any way it's sort of queer representation but also they constantly are needing the straight male white lead to bail them out and so it just

feels like it it is a step in some ways but also i don't know it was frustrating it's like you you want that character who is like so funny and so like well played to have more of a narrative impact it feels like someone luke basson's black wife realized that a lot of the black people in the movie don't actually get to be people and was like maybe we should make one of the black people a purple and not make them an alien or paint them blue or like do whatever like maybe there should be one person that's clearly black yeah and it's like it's it's so frustrating because it's so well played and the character is very fun character yeah and it's funny and the the fits are incredible i don't know i just wish that it's very frustrating to me when movies incorporate any marginalized group

in a way that doesn't progress the narrative because then it just sort of reads as to some extent kind of like gratuitous as like they were just doing it like, oh, I'll just do this. But it won't actually make a difference.

Yeah, that's what like when the groups of the gates of the people, when they complain about this is just to please the SJWs, it's like, no, because we actually want our characters to mean something.

This is because they want to get all four or five quadrants. This has nothing to do with us. And that's what this was. Although, again, I mean, I do. It's a great character and I love him. But yeah, he can very easily

not at all be in the movie. And it will still progress. I just wish that if he had even it would be so easy to write out like he doesn't know how to defend himself in any way or like if he had a skill that could forward the group

which would help the story because it would make them seem like more of a group and not just sort of a group of people who are co-dependent on Bruce Willis then that would have been great, and it would have been such an easy fix that would have made the story better. And it's like, if you just

unpassed out Leeloo and gave Ruby Road a skill, the movie is better, so why not do that? And Ruby Rod essentially became the damsel during that escape scene. Right! Ugh! And Ruby Rod essentially became the damsel during that escape scene. Right. Corbin moment.

I'm just going to keep doing Ruby Rod. It is iconic. He's an icon, but yes. God damn it. A couple of things I wanted to mention. Jamie, you already touched on this, but Corbin's mom. So we never meet her on screen.

Corbin's mom is the just no mother-in-law subreddit made into a person. That's a joke for the people who got it. Yeah, I don't know what you're talking about. There's a subreddit on Reddit, which is just people bitching about their mothers-in-laws, which becomes very clear that it's just people writing fan fiction where they get to call women bitches. Oh, very cool. Love that. It's pretty tight pretty sick but uh so corbin's mom we never meet her on screen but we hear her voice quite a bit because he's she's always calling corbin not nagging leaving messages uh man women you go from being a hot baby to being a nagging mom in two

seconds right and this is how a lot of moms are portrayed in movies where it's like i'm gonna let Man, women, you go from being a hot baby to being a nagging mom in two seconds. Right. And this is how a lot of moms are portrayed in movies where it's like, I'm going to let that pass. Okay. We're under arrest. We're under arrest. But this is how a lot of mothers are portrayed in movies where it's like a nagging, overbearing, can't let go of her baby boy and often played like comic relief like someone to not be taken seriously because he's always like brushing her off and it's just like also commonly known as like bad writing

yeah that is exactly what that is there's no in between there's very i mean now we're getting to a point where we get competent women but very often it is like you were either a sexy person i want to sex who also kicks other people sexily or you are this nagging horrible oh why should i have to clean my room mom yeah why do i have to take my diarrhea medication now i'm all right mom that's real you can look that that up. And you never see her. Right. We never formally meet her. She's strictly played off screen for laughs with Bruce Willis and then later with the president. She's like, I don't believe you're the president. The president sucks. Cut to Bruce Willis fucking end of movie.

A great last few minutes. Hilarious. Yeah. Cut to Bruce Willis fucking end of movie. A great last few minutes. Another female character who's introduced who is kind of played as a joke, her name is Major Iceborg, another Titanic reference, obviously. That is the official name of the iceberg, the Titanic. Major Iceborg.

They're like, sir, Major Iceborg. But she comes in in the scene where the general is like hey corbin we need you to like go on this secret mission even though you are retired from the military but uh do this anyway so she comes in and basically she would not probably be considered attractive by western ideal like beauty standards and then they're like she's gonna play your wife corbin and you're you won this trip and he takes one look at her and he's like i am not going as if like she's not beautiful traditionally so therefore she is disgusting and uh it's just like played as not worth being around for three fucking seconds yeah it's so fraught like they're also like per this movie you don't see women for canonically

three centuries and then when you get to women finally it's like oh it's only actually naked white ladies that we see and everything else is gross to us so sorry and that's just the movie yeah look i either want the perfect woman who you made out of a hand or nothing at all not this incredibly like that woman could have had his back could have shot some folks up we don't know how long she'd been in the academy she had probably been working when she's a major. You know how long it takes to be a fucking major? She had been working to be a major for years. And this dude looks at her and goes like,

oh, your hips. And is suddenly like, I'm going to do this mission alone. I've been retired forever, but I know I'm better at it than you. That's part of why I feel like this movie ultimately for, even though you see it and aesthetically, it doesn't look like a very conservative movie, but ultimately I feel like the story does play very conservative

because you're given these characters who on the written page seem like it's on the right track of like we've got our female Christ figure and we've got a queer reading character who is present for much of the movie but ultimately they are both deeply reliant and the plot's deeply reliant

on kind of your average white you know ex-military blue collar straight guy and the Bruce Willis character and so I just it seems like such a cop out for such a high concept movie that could be doing so much

more to ultimately tease you and pull in viewers with like hi this is something you want to see in movies like you want to see women you want to see queer people you want to see people of color but ultimately it's the same thing and the movie won't end unless the norm takes place and so it's just like it's frustrating because it's for so much of it i'm on board but the way it plays out you're like oh fuck you had

all this stuff why didn't you yeah like it's pretty and weird and french and unorthodox but then at the end they're still ah, penises and vaginas. Right. Right. And then a beam of light. Sure. Oh my God. Were they the first?

They did a reverse sky beam. Never mind. They didn't do the sky beam going down. They did the sky beam coming up. From her mouth, because that's where love comes from. You know, the love hole. So frustrating. Yeah, to the extent where like the diva character is like she needs your help and she needs your love and it's like does she

she's a weapon she's a nuke do i have to make out with this nuke right like i guess they're trying to humanize her in that moment but it's like we need you to french this bomb and he's like i'll do it like man you know what humanizing her would do more than having other people tell you that is make her a person yeah that's if you wrote her as a person because all of those are words on a page and you can change any of those any second right and you can tell that whole sequence where like the diva's singing opera and then we cut back to Leeloo fighting you can tell that everyone involved in the movie is like oh my god

feminism we get it it's just like guys are like high-fiving and patting themselves on the back like OMG 1997 we did it and it's like no a woman kicked one time and within

minutes of this sequence ending one will die and you'll have Bruce Willis punch through her flesh you didn't do it to be fair she already had a bullet hole and he just reaches into it but to be fair he just reaches into my bullet hole daddy

get the stones daddy that's what I always say i was like where are the stones they're in me daddy i'm and then he's like they're in her what could that possibly mean does that mean they're in her uh oh it does and also i think it bears it bears telling that during this moment, which is, I think, one of the only moments where there's cut screens where two women are both doing equal... They're both doing the most impossible thing you've ever seen in the world. And that's the only time they show two women.

And then Bruce Willis is seen punching a woman, which is not even the only time Bruceuce willis has done that on screen so you know he just like he's like oh the stones i got them and then everyone's like sorry about your dead diva yeah then r.i.p diva bruce changes into and regretfully i honestly lost a lot of interest once he took off the tank top i god well is there any anything anyone else wants to to talk about um let's see uh consent did we have ruby rod um i think i kept saying ruby road i apologize it's fine because i keep doing like fine because he keeps doing funny weird things with his accent to be like, Ruby Rod, Ruby Rod.

Ruby Rod. Yeah, I think I heard it that way the first time. And then I was like, okay, sounds good. But then Ruby Rod, you're like, oh, penis. Got it. Get it? It's his dick. Get it?

Because of dick. That was everything I had. It's weird because it's like, ultimately I, even on first viewing, enjoyed this movie. And it is so like aesthetically fun. And it moves so quickly. And it's on dailymotion.com.

I mean, what more could you want in a movie? But there are so many, like I think it's almost a classic case of like a 90s movie trying to have it every which way, but ultimately playing to the norm.

Yeah, exactly. Because even in the end, wasn't it Ruby Rod who fucked up opening the stones? It's, I'm a couple of my men,

I have to, I have to, I have to, I have to. He doesn't have fire, yeah. Yeah, I have to fire,

I have to fire. He's like, I quit smoking, even though the day before we see him smoking a cigarette, so. And also, come on, it'd be a vape. Let's be real.

We'd be vaping off of that mic. That mic is half mic, half vape. New reboot where we blow vape smoke on the Stones. Coolest Stones ever, man. Yeah. We touched on this a little bit, but Corbin spends the whole movie condescending to the woman he's in love with and will like end up with at the end the love story

makes no fucking sense it really it doesn't need to be there she even says like love I don't know love and he's like I'm gonna put my face on you again and it's like bitch that's not love he's literally like remember when I molested you let's give it a second shot. And this time it works.

This is horrible. Because she's so tired, you guys. She's just, this movie has beaten her down. She's so exhausted. She's kissing this man again or dying. Because she's had to bear the emotional labor of learning what war is and being the supreme, being fifth element. He is like her Urkel, where he's like, I'm wearing you down, Leeloo.

I'm wearing you down. But then he does. And that's how the movie ends. Isn't it where her watching war and being like, ah, reminded me of 50 First Dates, when Drew Barrymore has to learn his 2005 every day and she's like oh no arnold schwarzenegger is governor like that was kind of what it reminded me of but yeah like i feel like the thing he's always like patronizing her and condescending to

her based on her she doesn't have a great grasp of the english language yet even though she's had a day to learn it and is doing a pretty good job with what she's got what she knows and what she doesn't know is very plot convenient right she's supposed to know everything but she doesn't know anything that bruce willis can teach her right but then like so when they're like trying to check into the flying titanic he's like yes they know what a fucking multi-pass is. I kept thinking it was a movie pass, and I was like, oh. But yeah, he's really mean to her, and then she's like, let's kiss. So, boo.

This movie is weird. That's my last comment. This movie's weird. I don't know. If you still like it, that's fine. Yeah. Should we take some questions or comments from the audience? Sure.

Does anyone have anything they want to share? A question, a comment they'd like to share? We've got someone. Oh, yeah. Come on up. I just thought it was funny that this is a movie very similar to Blade Runner and also very similar in the sense that straight white men love to try to explain it to you and help you understand why it's so good.

But you don't get it, man. Tears in the Rain, he improv'd that scene. We had someone else. Are you going to come up? What's your name? My name is Ben. Hi, Ben. I'm just going to sit here real quick. So I noticed, I just remembered that in Valerian, actually, there is another, both in this movie and in Valerian, there's a scene where a woman does a big song number in Valerian. It's Rihanna. And then does something to help out the hero

and then immediately dies to advance the plot. So my question is, does Luc Besson hate female singers? I think it was another thing where Luc Besson's black wife was like, just something for me. Just Rihanna or like something. But even in that one, she's like a comfort woman, a woman of the night. And performing in all of those things is how she attracts people as though being Rihanna was somehow not enough

in space. It's weird. I also have the feeling that most of Luc Besson's stories were created when he was 14 years old. And so he writes women as if he is a horny pretty teenager. And

that's bad writing. Oh God, how gross would it be if he was just like oh what's a younger version of my wife to be in this movie oh but i wouldn't but i passed him well to answer your question i think that uh luke basson doesn't respect women period in general and i think he loves a song and dance sequence and he he's like, well, I'm not going to waste a man in this. Put someone in some hot pants. Yeah. Make them prance for me.

Yes, that's a great and unfortunate point. Thank you. Do we have any other questions, thoughts, anything? Oh, yeah. Come on down. What's your name? My name's Katie. Hi, Katie.

When we were watching this movie, my question was, they they find this hand which doesn't look like her hand after she's made into a person true do they design her like the creepy scientists design her to look like that or is that like her genetic code oh actually this is something i wanted to touch on uh i i have to imagine they're just reconstructing whatever like genetic material would like dictate her to end up being like. But what ends up happening, so everyone is using he pronouns before they realize that she is a woman. A woman's perfect.

So this to me is a version of that trope where it's like, the person that you thought was a man until they take off their helmet is actually a woman but you don't even get the frustrating but also the one redeeming part of that trope is you get to see that character be capable at

something before you find out they're a woman and this woman does not even isn't even afforded that it's like a hand like when she comes out of the 3d printer like she is perfect yeah and they're like oh cool so she doesn't have any we don't really care and it's just and you see her be literally like i i feel as if you see her be literally born in this thing that she later fucks bruce will in, because we all aspire to fuck Bruce Willis

inside of our moms. It's like fucking in your childhood bed, which is still also your mom. I honestly wish I had. I never did. But, you know, it's fucking weird. Yeah, it is sort of that thing where they're like, it is perfect that you can hetero fuck?

And that's like the lame-o cop-out. Right, and then even like Father Cornelius is like, he's a she, because everyone was, I guess, expecting the perfect supreme being to be a man, but she's a woman, but that has no impact on the story except for the fact that then Bruce Willis can later have sex with her right because he's hetero and because heteronormativity uh are there any other questions

or comments gary oldman's canceled so we can't comment on him at this time alfred melina should have alfred melina would have killed it alfred melina could have played bruce willis's part he'd been thick bruce willis that would have been great. Alvaro Molina could have played Bruce Willis' part. He'd been thick Bruce Willis. That would have been great. Thicky Willis. I would love, well, not to take parts away from women, but what if the hand turned into Alvaro Molina? That would have been kind of fun.

But everything else was exactly the same. He still kisses Bruce Willis at the end. Love? I don't know love what if what if Albert Malina appeared in an incubator and they're like perfect I want to see that movie

I want Bruce Willis to be like five nine brown eyes Albert Malina Leiloo Dallas multi-pass. And then, yeah, I think actually, not to like, you know, uncast the only woman

in this movie, but I think Alfred Molina would be a great Leeloo. Yeah. Leeloo is a gender neutral name. Exactly. What if Alfred Molina, what if Bruce Willis kissed Alfred Molina and then Alfred Molina did kill Bruce Willis and he's like, I'm the hero of the movie now.

This is the Alfred Molina movie. This is the Molina element. More like Alpha Morlina. Yeah. So anyways, we just uncast the female lead. Hey, does this movie pass the Bechdel test no no not even a little bit no there's times where women speak to each other but it's usually the times i spotted was lulu talking to a woman in a service role who was not named yeah we don't know her name yeah so yeah that's a big fat no

on passing the bechdel test for this movie. Shall we rate the movie on our nipple scale? Let's do it. Zero to five nipples based on its portrayal and representation of women. I'm going to go ahead and give the fifth element a half nipple. I mean, between the wild objectification and sexualization of a female character who is crucial to the story in the sense that she is the fifth element and she's like the component they need for the weapon against evil but aside from that like her characterization it's the whole born sexy yesterday trope she uh is there for gratuitous nudity a lot of the time. She has the brain of a baby, essentially,

that is very good at learning about war. But she hates it. She hates war. It's so bad, you guys. War stinks. Do you think someone watched that movie and they're like, oh, war's bad. Oh my God.

I'm going to give up on everything now until Bruce Willis puts one on me. Yeah. And then even like the moments where she's like kicking ass, just like feel like a very empty thing. And they're like, well now Bruce Willis will respect her

when he fucks her. So dumb. Yeah, so I think the movie doesn't really handle anything well when it comes to representing women so yeah that's a half nipple from me and I will give it of course to Corbin Dallas's cat so um that's that Danielle what's your um I'm going to give it a full nipple. I'm giving it one full nip, if only because the action scenes were really good and it did help launch Mia Jovovich's career.

Because of that, she was able to go on and be an actual good actress in things where she got to kick people in the face. And because it was able to launch that career in other movies, it'll get a full nip. Cool. I guess I'll go to half as well. It's just, all the progress this movie is trying to make

is kind of self-defeating in a very 1997 way that we see over and over again. And as pleasant as I'm sure it was to see some representation at the time of this coming out, seeing it over 20 years later, it feels even more frustrating to feel like you're trying to have your cake

and eat it too, of like, here's queer representation, here's female representation. Just kidding, it's Bruce Willis the whole time. And it's just, it's frustrating i am glad that it was able to give credibility and a platform to actors who wouldn't have had it otherwise and that's more than a lot of movies at this time did and that definitely deserves acknowledgement but like plot wise i would argue you could write out really every character on Bruce Willis' team

except for him, and the movie could feasibly play out the exact same way. Because even though we're told over and over that Leeloo is the chosen one, Bruce Willis is the chosen one, according to this movie. Because the thing that needs to happen cannot happen without him

and without his choices every step of the way so it's weird that this movie is secretly alt-right but uh no i mean it just like it it hurts to watch because you see a filmmaker who you can tell thinks they're doing the right thing but they're not and so it's frustrating and so i'll give it a half nipple and i'm gonna give my half nipple to chris tucker oh well danielle thank you so much for being here thank you for giving up for a guest danielle radford thank you what would you like to plug where can people find you online yeah so you guys every Thursday I do SJU

on Screen Junkies News and then on Screen Junkies Main I am the social blah blah blah for movie fights just find me online I usually plug

all of my weird things also if you like wrestling I have a wrestling podcast called Tights and Fights you can also find me on Patreon where I do a lot of fun things

for not a lot of money a month because you know who has it thank you to the Ruby for having us thank you to Aristotle's back there if you want to meet Aristotle give it up for yourselves for being here

thanks for coming we're back that's the episode baby love it or leave it is the name of a podcast you can listen to right after this yeah we just wanted to plug a few things to say thank you again to the ruby for having us and to daniel radford to daniel radford a wonderful wonderful person very funny um don't forget that we have a live show in los angeles at the ruby on the second saturday of every single month so come out join the fam we're starting to get a little crew comes every month

it's very exciting uh and we're also going on tour uh very soon yes yes so we will be in uh san francisco a sold-out show so sorry if you don't have your tickets. Portland. Not sold out yet. At the time of this recording. We're losers. But it's close. At the time of this recording. Winners. It is not yet sold out but those tickets are going very fast. So perhaps by the time of the episode release it will be sold

out. Hard to say. You've got to just get on your little computer and figure it out yeah uh and then we have seattle shows as well the two live bechtel cast shows are sold out however however we are doing a stand-up uh show on the 24th that we highly recommend you know you want to see caitlin and jamie strike out on their own and do a little something. Maybe we'll do something together. We haven't decided yet. Do I have three minutes of Titanic-based puns as jokes? Can confirm.

Yes, I do. Can confirm. And you know what? By the time this show rolls around, I may have written three more minutes. Hard to say. I usually end up body slamming a doll. Anything could happen at this wild Seattle show. Woo-woo.

Okay. So grab tickets for that. The ones that are still available on Bechtelcast.com and click on the live appearances tab. Oh, we've got a Patreon, a.k.a. a Matreon. Patreon.com slash Bechtelcast will get you two bonus episodes a month for only five bucks. And this month in January, aka pageant january aka

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Bye. Bye. Daphne Caruana Galizia was a Maltese investigative journalist who on October 16th, 2017, was assassinated. Crooks Everywhere unnerves the plot to murder a one-woman WikiLeaks. She exposed the culture of crime and corruption that were turning her beloved country into a mafia state. Listen to Crooks everywhere on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

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