The Bechdel Cast - The Little Mermaid

Episode Date: March 28, 2019

Jamie Loftus and Caitlin Durante visit a sea witch so they can transform into humans and travel to the surface to chat with special guest Clara Pluton about Disney's The Little Mermaid, recorded live at the Jewelbox Theater in Seattle!(This episode contains spoilers)For Bechdel bonuses, sign up for our Patreon at patreon.com/bechdelcast.Follow @clarapluton on Twitter.  While you're there, you should also follow @BechdelCast, @caitlindurante and @jamieloftusHELP Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Hello. So you're about to hear an episode about Disney's The Little Mermaid. A popular request. A popular movie. It was recorded in Seattle. At the Jewel Box Theater. Yes. But before we get to that, we have a whole slew of things we would like to plug. Just upcoming upcoming shows we're touring once again can you believe it so before we go on tour though our first show chronologically coming up is at the ruby in los angeles on april 6th 9 30 and we're doing um bring it on with maggie may returning favorite uh in mid-april we're going to be in denver Mae. Maggie Mae, a returning favorite.

In mid-April, we're going to be in Denver just doing some stand-up shows to be announced on our individual website. Yes. And then me, Caitlin, hi. I'm going to be doing my intro to screenwriting workshop in Denver at Comedy Works on April 13th. So, again, yeah, check out my website, CaitlinDrade.com for those details. And then also, I'm going to be at Penn State University in State College, Pennsylvania on April 20th. I'm doing a stand up show there at the Carnegie Cinema. On April 28th, we're going to be at the Bell House in Brooklyn with Melissa Lozada Oliva doing a live show on 13 Going on 30. Tickets for that are already going really fast.

So if you are on the fence, definitely get your tickets soon. They're selling very quickly. And that's the first date of our little East Coast tour. The next one is April 30th. we're going to be at good good comedy theater in philadelphia and i will be doing my show boss whom is girl right after uh the bechtel cast live show that very same night yeah so stick around for that then on may 1st we're going to be at the draft house comedy theater in washington dc then on May 2nd, we will be back at the Women in Comedy Festival in Boston. We're going to be at the Rockwell.

That's on May 2nd. And then for all you little New Yorkers out there, I'll be back in New York on May 9th doing Boss Whom Is Girl at Union Hall at 730. Oh my goodness. I'll also be doing something in New York myself. Oh yeah. It's the same day as our New York show on April 28th. I'm going to be doing another intro to screenwriting workshop.

So come and learn from me, a master. From a master. And we're still in the process of confirming guests and movies for most of those dates. So just stay tuned to the Twitter, the Instagram, instagram etc i will be releasing that info asap so go to bechdelcast.com for details on the live podcast shows and keep an eye on the social meds the social meds and finally we just wanted to plug our campaign to raise money for the organization called Black Girls Code. And we are doing that by selling Rise of the Matriarchy t-shirts. There's only a few days left

because the campaign ends at the end of March. Yes, and we want to raise as much money as possible. So please grab the Rise of the Matriarchy shirt. Designed it myself. It's cute. It's adorable. You can grab it at tpublic.com slash the Bechdel cast. Only a few days left and we'd really appreciate it if you helped us meet our goal. Indeed. And go ahead

and enjoy the episode. Without further ado, the Little Mermaid. The Bechdel cast. Hi, what's up? Welcome to the show. Welcome to the Bechdelcast Live Seattle. Wow. We're so psyched you're here. This is our last stop on our West Coast tour. This is our first time coming here. We're so excited to be here.

We're stoked to be here. Just out of curiosity, by round of applause, who has listened to our show before? Hey, a couple. Okay, my favorite. Clap as if you're embarrassed and want to disappear if you've never listened to our show before and this is your first time.

Yep. Those are the brave. Thank you to everyone who dragged their friends who've never listened to the show before to the show. Yes, thank you so much.

This is how it goes. That's right. So for the three of you, I'll tell you what the show is. Bechdelcast is our podcast about the portrayal of women in movies that is usually bad.

Right. And we use the Bechdel test as a jumping off point to initiate that conversation. And that, of course, is a media test created by cartoonist Alison Bechdel that requires that a movie has two female identifying characters with names who speak to each other and their conversation has to be about something other than a man today we have uh both an incredible guest and a movie that had to be done sooner or later uh-huh but a movie at least i don't want to speak for everyone but a great movie or it was we all used to think so um it's a problematic slapper yes i still i fully saw this movie was playing in in los angeles uh last weekend and i went

and i cried so much it was wait this movie hideous what movie what about this movie... It was hideous. What about this movie makes you cry? Like, which parts? You know, Lost Youth. Okay. Not to shame you for emotions, but... Oh, no. When I think of... No, just, like, any time I'm confronted with... Not even confronted.

Like, I had a lovely childhood for the most part. But I just was like, ah! I have a nostalgia faucet that just turns on. I see. I'm like, I saw this once.

And I'm like, ah! I was crying. And there were also a bunch of cute kids dressed as mermaids there. I probably looked like a pervert being at this place. I am a lone adult. But there were a bunch of cute kids that were so excited. And when Ariel came on screen, they were like, yeah! And then I cried

so kids are still watching this movie I think because their parents yeah I mean yeah so that's why we're here but I do still have a crying response to this movie I see I cry for the entire

duration of Moana so so I get it. Well, you're very woke and congratulations. Thank you. I cry at everything all the time. And I like to pay to put myself in circumstances where

I can cry in public and it is not inappropriate. I wouldn't say that a public screening of The Little Mermaid is a good example of that. Now that you say it out loud. I'm always just looking for a dark space to cry in. Sure, sure, sure, sure. A dark, sanctioned space to cry in. Just out of curiosity, is there anyone here who has not seen Disney's The Little Mermaid?

Good. Great. This is the first time this has ever happened at a live show. We've done probably like 20 live shows now. And there's always like 10 people who are like, I've never seen the movie you're talking about. And then one person who's like, I'm at the wrong event. So all right. This this is great should we introduce our guest yes alright

they are a local Seattle comedian they're the co-host of the Hot Takes with Hot Dykes podcast and you can check them out on their

website ClaraPluton.org give it up for Clara Pluton welcome welcome hi how are we doing thanks for being here welcome welcome hi how are we doing thanks for being here oh my god thanks for having me this is great um tell us

your your history your relationship with the little mermaid uh my relationship with the little mermaid has always been sparse even like as a child i was a lesbian. I didn't like it. I was like, this is fake news. I don't want anything to do with this. This seems wrong. I didn't like princesses growing up. I liked Pokemon. Sailor Moon was the closest thing to a princess.

Someone was feminist. Totally. But you've seen it. I've seen it. I think I watched it maybe once as a wee one but it really was like when i had to watch it for this that i sunk my teeth into okay oh yes wow it just didn't it never appealed to me i was like why would someone not want to be a mermaid yeah doesn't make any sense right i was like where's my version where i turn into a mermaid yeah i plunged myself deeper into the ocean.

My parents were like, where are you? I'm like trying to find this cool world that people want to leave for some reason. It didn't make sense. Reverse dingle hop. Literally. We call forks. Yes. Under the ocean.

Yeah. Jamie, what's your history with the movie? It makes me cry. I don't know. I mean, I had the Disney Renaissance catalog hammered into me as a kid. As a child who needed to be shut up very often, VHS tapes were employed. Into your mouth? Shut up.

Shut up. I would have the VHS for Dumbo in my mouth so i could not make a noise and i would be watching the little mermaid uh double fisting disney yeah well my mom ran a daycare when i was growing up so there would always be something playing uh for like whatever rogue child would wander into uh room so yeah so we were playing disney movies at our house all the time uh for like the first 10 years of my life so i was very attached to this movie and most of the princess uh movies of this era and i do think it affected me negatively yeah for sure same what about you this movie came out when i was like three and i probably saw it when i was

five and then every day for those like next 10 years probably until you're 15 years old yes correct you went to your homecoming in a full red wig why does no one want to date me i was i had a second wave of love for the little mermaid in high school weirdly where i like loved it when i was a kid and then i loved it again as like a t-shirt you could purchase at hot topic sure i still love it yeah continue oh no that's that's mostly it yeah so this movie is very ingrained into me i I'm sure it shaped my, you know, Play-Doh brain when I was a small child for the worst. I know the philosopher, right?

Yes, correct. Your genius graphical brain. Speaking of ancient Greek philosophers, shout out to our producer, Aristotle. Aristotle! He is not here. I know. Sorry.

But our good friend Sammy is here, who you might remember from the She's the Man. He is not here. I know. Sorry. But our good friend Sammy is here, who you might remember from the She's the Man episode. So, shout out. For true Bechdel heads. Yeah. You'll know. You'll know.

I just feel like I never liked princesses because I always had too thick of an attachment to irony. Like, I couldn't deal with it. I was like five and i wanted to watch david lynch's eraser head what i just got emo too quick i'm like no musicals it's too corny you're a child of nihilism fully fully i came from nicha and now i'm here i'm jealous but the little mermaid at this age now made me cry so So I get it. Now I went like full throttle. Now I want my youth back. I'm like, please give it back to me. I wasted it away.

Listening to Marilyn Manson. I want to feel young again, please. I think maybe what motivated my high school re-appreciation was when I was in high school Tumblr was becoming a thing. So there was a lot of shitty fan art of like

Ariel but like she had tattoos and you were like oh brilliant post modern reimagining or she'd have like a period does anyone remember that shitty fan art that was like of all the Disney princesses she was skateboarding like with a fin

it's like how and I was like oh this is still nothing like me, but they just adapted, like, oh, what was aspirational for me as a child to what was aspirational to me as a teenager, which is, like, a hot goth. Yeah. So, yeah, they really, they got me twice.

Oh. Motherfuckers. Disney. Should I do the recap? Yeah. All right. So we see an opening shot of dolphins are jumping around in front of a ship that later sinks.

What is this? Titanic? Fish! Ooh, big O. Okay. Oh, the fish gets away. I start crying. The second the fish was like, ooh, I was like, oh, I wish.

Why hasn't he come back? I'm sorry to impose gender on this fish. I don't know. We don't know their story. In any case. Probably a non-binary fish. I hope so. We meet Eric.

He's a prince. He's sailing on a ship. He's colonizing places probably with his other white sailors. He's also wearing a blouse he also plays the flute the recorder the recorder worse yeah is it confirmed recorder i believe so i was like because he's playing it front ways it sounds like a recorder yeah it sounds like a recorder i forgot that shot of him moodily sexilyily, wearing a cape, playing the recorder, like, what do I do?

Yes. He's such a Pisces. Gotta say it. No shame. But he gets, like, really, like, broody at one point. And I screenshotted it and posted it with a flute. And I got roasted. They're like, no, idiot.

It's a recorder. I was like, okay, people in line need to chill out. And then you see he, spoiler alert, flings the recorder into the sea. Polluting. Yes. Compost the recorder. Come on. Right. So which kind

of confirms that it's a recorder because he flings it with the ease that one may fling a recorder. Also, real quick, Prince Eric? Really? Eric? What prince is named Eric? Could it be like Ericobia? I'm not buying it. It's basically like Prince

Joey. Prince Brendan. Prince Toby. Okay, Disney. Do you think that Donald Trump's son used to call himself Prince Eric when he was little? Yes. I think he did. Shout out to my brother, Eric, who does listen to the podcast.

So shout out. Yeah, because I texted you Prince Eric hot and you're like, same name as my brother. Can't do it. Yeah. Okay. Eric hot and you're like same name as my brother can't do it yeah okay so Eric he's hanging around uh and then the sailors are like hey have you heard of this King Triton and he's like no what are what are mer people and then we meet some mer people bunch of old perverts tell us about the mer people yeah King Triton we meet Sebastian the crab he's conducting a concert and all of Triton's daughters are singing

except for Ariel. And then she comes on screen and all the kids in the costumes are like, yeah. Were you on E-Bombs World ever?

Yes. Okay, because remember in E-Bombs World days where it was like hidden things you didn't see in Disney movies

and it's like on the cover of the Little Mermaid there's a penis. There's a penis. In Triton's castle. So the whole movie I was like hidden things you didn't see in Disney movies and it's like on the cover of the little mermaid there's a penis there's a penis in Triton's castle so the whole movie I was like

where's the penis I had my binoculars out like ready to see the sneaky penis all subsequent releases post 89 they take out all the

because the priest has a boner in the original movie and they edited they edited them censorship I know it's like where's our erect tiny old man representation in the original movie, and they edited them. Censorship. I know.

I was like, where's our erect, tiny old man representation? I'm ready. I'm horny. Erasure. Yeah. So we meet Ariel. She is exploring a shipwreck, much like Bill Paxton in Titanic. And she's there with her fish friend Flounder.

Because the thing is that she loves human stuff. So she's like collecting all these artifacts, a fork and the pike. She's basically a paleontologist, except humans are alive. She's basically a hoarder. Yeah. No, I don't like calling her a hoarder. She is, she is.

My whole thing with Ariel is like, she starts like having an intellectual interest in something, and then it's taken away from her, and then they're like, actually, you need a boyfriend, and she's like, oh. Yeah, that's true. And then the movie ends. She was trying to be an archaeologist, a woman in STEM, if you will. Well, I think that she is.

I don't know. You can have a collection and not be... I sound really defensive. Yeah, you're right. You're right. You're absolutely right. It's not like it was snow globes. Right.

Sure. It was like different things that inspired... She was curious about that. Waterproof books. Yes. A lot of stuff. And then she like takes them all to Scuttle. He lies to her about what they are.

Original mansplainer. Right. Yes. I'm tired of Scuttle. He lies to her about what they are. Original mansplainer. Right. I'm tired of Scuttle. And then we meet Ursula. She's a sea witch and she's bitter for having been banished from the sea palace. Yes. So she wants her eel friends Flotsam and Jetsam

to keep an eye on Ariel because she might be the key to Triton's undoing. I think Flotsam and Jetsam need their own spinoff. Yeah. They're charismatic and fun to me. Like Timon and Pumbaa got one.

Right. I want them up to no good, swashbuckling. I just wish that Flotsam and Jetsam had like different personalities. Like where's, who's cranky in the morning? We just don't know know who's like the night

owl who's like get to bed on time who is like five years sober and who's still partying it's flotsam it's flotsam flotsam is addicted to ketamine yeah it's canonical Ariel she's talking to Triton and Flounder lets it slip that she went to the surface and Triton's like you can't do that because humans are evil and they're barbaric I'm 16 years old I'm not a child we're like oh she's 16

yikes for what happens later and here's where I really start to see myself in ariel because like going to the surface for me and like sneaking like i was sneaking around all the time at 16 but it wasn't the surface it was like raves on the south side of chicago and like abandoned chinese restaurants so like i get it yeah yeah uh and that's the same for Ariel, except she's got like a cave of wonders, basically. And she keeps all her human artifacts there.

Yeah. And Sebastian follows her there. And she's singing about how she wants to be part of the human world. And then we see some amazing shots of her hair. Some great hair shots. And just then, a ship traveling overhead goes by. and she's like, wow, who's this man? This is where the movie really falls apart. Right.

I like the movie up to that point, and then it loses me. And so is the story of a young anthropologist. Yeah. Now it's over. She literally starts as a young scientist, and then she's derailed by heteronormativity. Yep. And a hurricane strikes, and Eric's ship is destroyed, and Ariel saves him, and she sings to him,

and he starts to wake up, and he sees her upper body, but not her mermaid fishtail. And he gets horny. He gets very horny. He's like, I was dead, but now I'm alive and horny? But she disappears into the ocean before he can, like, fully

regain consciousness. And he was like, oh my god, who was that? If Eric's dog could talk, this movie would be over so fast. Because Eric's dog repeatedly has the receipts but not like the communication ability i just wish that eric would have been able to write a

craigslist misconnections like saw hot girl maybe teen not sure perhaps a mermaid get back to me here's my kick hmu dm me please DM me, please. And then Ariel is swooning and Sebastian tries to convince her that where she belongs is under the sea and the great song that we all love. But she's not having it. And then Triton finds out that

Ariel is in love with a human so he destroys all of her stuff. I hated that scene. That's where I cried. It still upsets me to watch. It's very upsetting. Yeah. Like full flashbacks of my dad like throwing my bong down the stairs.

He's like, I found sheets of acid again. I'm burning them all. I'm like, no. And then so Ariel goes to Ursula based on the promise that she will use magic to turn Ariel into a human for three days. And if she gets Eric to kiss her by the end of the day on the third day, she gets to stay a human forever. And if she fails. Which is a curse.

Yes. As we all know. True. And if she fails, she will belong to Ursula. To me. And as payment, Urs will belong to Ursula. To me. Yeah. And as payment, Ursula takes Ariel's voice. So she has legs, but no voice.

And she goes to the surface. Some artfully dodged nudity in this seat. I'm still shocked at how far down the torso you go. It's like, when do mermaid pubes start coming in? Because I'm not seeing any. That's you so much my favorite line in the movie it's from the song where ursula takes ariel's voice obviously which is men prefer women to not make a word yeah i love that line is she who holds her tongue to children yeah yeah yeah yeah um body language ha it's i i think the best disney song of all time poor unfortunate souls it's good it's one of my

faves so ariel's animal friends are helping her she finds eric and he's like oh you're really cute what's your name and she can't talk so he's like oh oh, you're really cute. What's your name? And she can't talk. So he's like, oh, you're not. Right. Marry me now. Well, he says, do I know you? He doesn't say you're hot. Well, true. He thinks it does.

He's like, hey, were you that girl that made me horny when I thought I was dead? Yo, did I see you at the party last night? I was too nervous to say anything I was like sort of blacked out but you look familiar did you go here that is something

that erics do he just comes from like a line of like swashbuckling frat bros yeah yo you're pretty chill what's your name

don't care can't talk sick sick wanna come to my house? It's a castle. My dad lets me have a castle. It's pretty cool.

I don't even know what he does, like stockbroker or whatever. There's this lady there. She'll give you a bath. It sounds sus, but it is not sus. Because she can't talk, he's all like, oh, you're not the woman who i thought you were but i'll let you hang out with me anyway and he takes on a tour of the town they're on a rowboat at night there's another song that's great but problematic and um they almost kiss and then ursula is like oh my god that was too close so but flotsam and jetsam come in clutch every time flotsam and ursula is work from home yeah flotsam and jetsam

are in the fields right they're out there so to prevent any more close calls ursula disguises herself as a human woman and then uses the voice that she stole from Ariel to seduce and enchant Eric. Yes. And then it's announced that Eric is getting married the next day. Because he was under a spell of horny. Correct. And he's supposed to be getting married to the woman

that Ursula is pretending to be. Is her name Victoria? Is that right? I think Vanessa. Vanessa. Yeah. Vanessa. Vanessa and Eric.

Yeah. So then Ariel, she and her friends are trying to stop the wedding. Well, Ariel gives up right away. She's like, when, it's like all of her friends that have to be like, no, let's try to do something. Right. She's like, no. Because she has no agency at this point. The second she loses her voice, we just lose the character entirely. It sucks. Right. She's like, no. Because she has no agency at this point.

The second she loses her voice, we just lose the character entirely. It sucks. Yeah. But then she gets her voice back because like the shell necklace breaks. Right.

Scuttle galvanizes the various sea creatures that are annoying. And that's sort of their role. Right. But it's too late because the sun has set and she turns back into a mermaid and Ursula snatches her up.

All the humans are very chill about like, oh, I guess there's mermaids. That's not a dress that, I mean, there's a lot of people at this wedding and she turns into a mermaid right in front of them and then a person they thought was a person explodes into an octopus true and we never get their side of the story and in fact we don't really know what happens to the people on the boat because i mean what happens to the wedding

guest right because about a half hour later ur Ursula... Doesn't the boat sink again? Maybe, because she enhances in size by like 8,000 times, and that spell was unclear to me. I think they were like, we're having mimosas, there's canapes. Yeah. Maybe it's Cirque du Soleil themed.

I don't know. Maybe they're regularly doing hallucinogenics on this one. They're like, whoa, wild wedding. This is actually an ayahuasca ceremony. But do the people, like, do we know what happens? I truly haven't thought about this. Like, do we know what happens to the wedding guests?

I don't think so, no. There are so many people at that wedding. What happens to the boner priest? We don't know. Justice for boner priests. Weird. So, Ursula, like,

uses Ariel as leverage to get the power away from King Triton and then she, yeah, she, like, gets huge. Also, King Triton, kind of zaddy.

He's very, like, Jason Momoa. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, he is, he's very buff. He's buff, long beard, like Zeus vibe. I get it.

The fact that his nipples are very visible throughout the entire movie is something that I noticed as a five-year-old and never thought about nothing else. The way his nipples are drawn, first of all, he's also hairless, which is like, okay. He is a smooth zaddy but there's no distinct i'm sure because like disney thinks that any detailing of the body in a realistic way is repulsive but there's no distinction between nipple and areola it's just like vague large blob and you're like so and i remember literally being like so that's what men look like yeah they're just sort of a pancake-y surface that's my dad yeah they're

like oh cool never seen my dad's shirtless he's a humble man so now i know smooth all the mermen are smooth part of disney canon like there There's no moms in Disney movies right now. True. We'll get there. Don't worry. Yeah, mommies are canceled. Yeah. True.

Because he's like the scrappy divorcee. He's like, I got all these daughters. Yeah. They're up to no good. He's like the Tim Allen. I'm up to here with all of you. He's like, all my fucking daughters. I don't know what to do.

All my fucking daughters. Where's that movie? He's like Lady Gaga's dad in A Star is Born. Yeah. He's like, I'm busy. Oh, my daughters. Oh, God. I'm back here.

I'm smashing your stuff. Dice can't even handle one daughter, man. He'd give Dice seven daughters? Fuck. He's going to screw up. Why was Dice in that movie handle one daughter, man. He'd give Dice seven daughters? Fuck! He's going to screw up. Why was Dice in that movie? I don't know. Anyway, so Ursula's huge, and she's trying to kill Eric and Ariel.

She's huge. She's huge. She's true. She's so large. The thing is, she gets very large. Yes. And then Eric takes what used to be a sunken ship and drives it into her pointy end first and bursts her and then she dies.

Yeah. She's also made to, she's made to seem like unkillable. What with the growing quite large. Right. But then is immediately killed. Right. Right. Right.

Plot to the Jetsam also die. That's why there's no spinoff. They are killed. Okay. I need to see them in hell immediately. Yes. And then in the aftermath of all of that, Ariel is looking longingly at Eric on a beach

and Triton's like, wow, she really loves him. I have to let her go. And then he turns her into... From one patriarchal structure to the next. Turns her into human again and she goes and kisses and marries Eric and that is the story

of feminist masterpiece The Little Mermaid. So there you have it. And by the way I guess just as we were talking it out now, the ship they get married on is within the past few weeks the third ship

that Eric has needed to buy rent yeah he's having gave me his black amex i keep crashing all these boats whoa i don't know prince eric is a magnesis member from my fire he went to Fyre Fest. He literally went to Fyre Fest. He's like, oh shit, I put $800,000 on my Fyre band. It was so fucking embarrassing. He's in the doc like, I wanted to do body shots on Bella Hadid. Like, I got it for my birthday.

My wife Ariel let me go. She's super chill. Daphne Caruana Galizia was a Maltese investigative journalist who on October 16th, 2017, was murdered. There are crooks everywhere you look now. The situation is desperate. My name is Manuel Delia. I am one of the hosts of Crooks Everywhere,

a podcast that unhurts the plot to murder a one-woman Wikileaks. Daphne exposed the culture of crime and corruption that were turning her beloved country into a mafia state. And she paid the ultimate price. Listen to Crooks Everywhere on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. To listen to new episodes one week early and 100% ad-free, subscribe to the iHeart True Crime Plus channel, available exclusively on Apple Podcasts. I felt too seen. Dragged. I'm NK and this is Basket Case. So I basically had what back in

the day they would call a nervous breakdown. I was crying and I was inconsolable. It was just very big sudden swaps of different meds. Finally, a show for the mentally ill girlies. On Basket Case, I talk to people about what happens when what we call mental health is shaped by the conditions of the world we live in. Because if you haven't noticed, we are experiencing some kind of conditions that are pretty hard to live with. But if you haven't noticed, we are experiencing some kind of conditions that are pretty hard to live with. But if you struggle to cope,

the society that created the conditions in the first place will tell you there's something wrong with you and it will call you a basket case. Listen to Basket Case every Tuesday on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. It was December 2019 when the story blew up. In Green Bay, Wisconsin, former Packers star Kabir Bajabiamila caught up in a bizarre situation.

KGB explaining what he believes led to the arrest of his friends at a children's Christmas play. A family man, former NFL player, devout Christian, now cut off from his family and connected to a strange arrest. I am going to share my journey of how I went from Christianity to now a Hebrew Israelite. I got swept up in Kabir's journey. But this was only the beginning in a story about faith and football, the search for meaning away from the gridiron, and the consequences for everyone involved. You mix homesteading with guns and church and a little bit of the spice of conspiracy theories that we liked. Voila! You got straight away.

I felt like I was living in North Korea, but worse, if that's possible. Listen to Spiraled on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. All right, so, I mean, there are problems that people have been talking about for a long time now, the various obvious ones where, you know, Ariel changes herself and sacrifices basically every significant thing about herself so that she can be with a man. All agency. Yeah. There's, you know, Ariel's voice being taken away and, you know, she doesn't have access to any language that allows her to communicate effectively.

This is an interesting movie when we were like setting up this episode, because we were like, the criticism around this movie is so well known that to some extent it's like, yeah, we all know this, but there's more. There's more. There's more. I feel like one of the other more obvious ones is Eric falling in love with her despite not knowing anything about her. Because, again, she cannot communicate in any way. I'm a bartender, and that happens every shift. Every shift's like, whoa, I think I love you. I don't know anything about you.

I'm like, this is so much fun for me. If only you couldn't talk. So let's dive into perhaps some of the... Oh! Caitlin! Pun intended? We'll never know. Where should we start? Let's start with Ursula as a mean

lesbian. Okay, let's do it. There's a lot of queer coding in this movie yeah and I just think like Ursula's the most badass person in the whole movie she just like

hates straight people and like will do anything in her power to take their power away yes cause obviously Flotsam Jetsam

dating yes right like twunk icons yeah it's like are they brothers or boyfriends

we don't know we don't have to know and that's her little like army I mean they're touchy yeah if they're brothers

they're touchy brothers they're dancing in the scene they're regularly like intertwining skin to skin yeah they're

they've gotta be dating or they're creepy brothers and she just wants to ruin she's like I don't want straight people to be dating or they're creepy brothers and she just wants to ruin she's like I don't want straight people to be happy and I don't want you to be happy so we're going to make this all your problems I'm like you're a badass you're a sea witch why is that bad

why are Disney movies telling kids not to be witches also witches are good until Halloween Town when we realized it was actually fine yeah and part of what I noticed on this watch because I've been I was

so brainwashed by this movie is that we get really no explanation as to why Ursula is not a part yes we don't know why is there no one else in this story that looks anything like her like

we're led to believe people right right and there's like so much coding to the point where it's like i feel like implied that she's extricated because she's othered in this way and there's not even an attempt she's just like well i used to be a part of this but now i'm not and like there that's all you get and there's no we're just supposed to assume that triton is right why would i assume a man is right exactly as as demonstrated by everything else he does in the movie he's almost never right he's not a good ruler nor is he a good father like they're you know so that had never struck me before of like they they're just like, no, this is the villain and this is what a villain looks like and accept it.

Right, yeah. Did you notice that the like structure that she comes out of the first time that she's introduced is like this vulva? It's just a vulva. Does she tumble out of a vagine? Yes. Incredible.

She like wipes her mouth. She's like, I was busy. What do you want want you pesky animals it's like why does the cool fat dyke with short hair have to be bad i'm like i'm rooting for her the whole time she's awesome she's annoyed with clearly something i mean right right yeah when we just we are we do if we just don't know anything about why yes she has been banished. No, there was probably

like a Lilith fair back in the day with other like tentacle lesbians and then Triton canceled it because he wanted to have like Diplo play. But where did all the other tentacle people go?

Like it's just, oh, I was, I was more frustrated. I mean, andsula is the best most interesting character in the movie by far yeah she's got the best song she's got the best henchmen like flotsam and jetsam could murder flounder like they're they could kill him like flounder's fucked up too because it's like i feel like he is also the trope of like dopey fat boy you know what I mean? Where he's like chubby

and he's like I'm slow wait up for me. It's like wait up for him. He's taking his time. And you're also being reckless Ariel I mean playing off of that too it's like oh he's like a chubby boy character and he's a coward

Right. And that's such a chubby boy character and he's a coward. And that's such a pervasive trope with that too. It's just like they're scared of everything and blah, blah, blah. And it's like, come on. It's like my mom, she cuts all the crust off my sandwiches. I don't know if I can go in there. Well, Ursula is also, I have a few theories that I've been testing out on the podcast. So you may have heard these before. But movies with female villains usually have a female protagonist because I feel like it's implied that female villains can't pose much of a threat

to male protagonists. So this reinforces that theory. Also, movies where a female villain makes potions and stuff like it is like a subtle way to villainize women in STEM. Wow. Female scientists be dangerous. We see this in Disney movies a ton, even up to as recently as the Incredibles two, where that was a woman in STEM and a villain. Yeah. Interesting. That's so true in every way. And's also like it's like they don't want to teach young girls that you should be scared of men and like the patriarchy is bad so we're

gonna put like this lady this fat woman on it so you should like fear body positivity and queerness and like your own mother it's like i don't like it right i mean yeah and it and it does like all this whole genre of movie does so much work to separate women from other women to the point where it's very hard to see women even in the same scene. her dad and just being handed off with his permission to another man into like this different uh heteronormative oppressive structure right and she you know it's like she is given agency for maybe 10 minutes but then the rest is decided and swayed by how the men around her act. And in the meantime, any woman who is seen acting on her own is acting maliciously and acting to take another woman down. Right. And there is so much done to us, I think when we're young to make other women seem like a threat to like, there's so much done to prevent women from talking to each other uh because then

we'll like figure out it's all a scam like i don't know but yeah that is and none of her friends are women either like none of the supporting characters are women yeah they're all coded men yeah they're all just kind of like surrounded by different men like why couldn't founder just like be a girl right why couldn't it be like girl power or why couldn't we see what her relationship is with all five million of her sisters? So true! There's six women who are named in this movie.

But they're all basically the same. They're interchangeable. We know nothing about them. It would have been so easy to have two sisters in conflict. Ariel wants to go to the surface, one sister doesn't think it's a good idea. For sure.

Or one of her sisters being in the Sebastian role where she's like, I'm tattling on you. Women can't be having jobs in this world. They are literally in, as far as we know, the mermaid world, women are performers. Waiting at know times backstage

yeah for one triton wants a little ditty he's like gals you know right but yeah we don't see the sisters interacting with ariel at all which is strange because whenever she's like oh but if i become a human i'll never see my father or sisters again so we're like do you like your sisters we don't we don't know because here are the examples of them interacting in the movie. One of them says, Ariel, time to come out.

You've been in there all morning. Cause we, you know, women be in the bathroom. And I mean, if they're in the sea, isn't it all a bathroom in the, in a way?

100%. What is the bathroom like in the ocean? It's a bathroom. bathroom like in the ocean? It's a bathroom. Ariel does not respond to this. And then later another sister says, what's with her lately? And no one responds. No one responds. So that is the interaction that the sisters have with each other and with Ariel. So yeah, that's annoying.

A little bit more on like the the character design um so like with Ariel okay you mentioned Jamie like her fish bottom is so low and her just like body shape her proportions like her it's not anatomical no no there there was another thing that made the rounds a couple years ago of like where someone tried to render what would a human with those proportions look like it's done with barbies every once in a while as well and it is predictably uh horrifying it is the scariest thing you've ever seen just women with gigantic heads it's like beavis and butthead 3d i mean it is it is horrifying and and designed to make little girls feel bad about themselves so that they'll continue to buy products products products for the rest of their lives and also she explicitly says in the movie that she is 16 years old so the animators are like crazy over sexualizing a teenager i've got some freaky okay

so the way that this this movie is such a comes out at such a strange point in time because at the time this came out it was considered of like wow a disney princess is allowed to do something this was progressive at the time and What came before it? Why? If we're talking princesses, it's like Cinderella, Sleeping Beauty, Snow White. So truly, they're like, she's not unconscious. What's the problem?

Shut up, feminists! That's the literal bar we're coming in. She's awake the whole movie. Can she speak the whole movie? No! That's your problem they're like let's give us a few years maybe we'll let her talk but she will be a prisoner and that movie is beauty and the beast uh but you know that's a feminist text because she can read right right right fucking stupid but the way that people reviewed this movie at the time,

I mean, much of the problem with film criticism is it's so male-dominated. Sure. And in 1989, it was even more so. The way people write about this cartoon is pornographic. Here's an LA Times clip. Mermaid's saucy heroine, Ariel, isn't much like Anderson's sad, noble seaman.

She's a sexy little honey bunch. I know! With a double-scalloped seashell bra and a mane of red hair tossed in tumble-out-of-bed SoCal style. You're like, SoCal style? Like it's Sofritas? What is he talking about?

SoCal style? What? Is she longboarding? It doesn't make sense. It is disgusting. Throw him to the sharks. And then in the Boston Phoenix, this one is, let's see. Ariel is sexy as well as sympathetic.

And Orlando Sentinel, Ariel is sympathetic and in her little bikini top, rather hot. You're just like, everyone, yeah. So, you know, just a reminder that straight men are scary. And always want to fuck cartoons. Even when they're teenagers even when yeah I mean yeah so the way this character was received and I think in retrospect

like a lot of the flack that Ariel receives has a lot to do with like the way adults viewed and spoke about this character because they're like what Disney princesses are hot and I want to fuck them now what and it's like, okay, that's a you thing. Like, that's...

Yeah, so, anyways, perverts. Right, right, right. I mean, what else is Ariel supposed to wear? A shirt? It'll get wet.

She has no other option besides double-scalloped bra. Like, leave her alone. I mean, unless we're freeing the nipple under the sea, which I would embrace um but then like contrast her character design with ursula for example where and this is the case with i would say

every disney villain where they're designed with body types that do not adhere to like the western conventional western beauty standards to say the least right so you know when children are watching these movies and the heroes do adhere to those standards and the villains don't you know our mushy child brains are like oh well it just doubles down right it's like then um you know thin beautiful people are good and people who are not that are bad. Right. I mean, and the same goes for like coded sexuality. Exactly. Hetero people, even if they're evil pancake-nippled fathers who can't

rule a kingdom and save their fucking... They can't rule their own penis kingdom if they're straight, they're probably good at their job and they're a great parent. I think so much with Ursula, too, it's like, because with the way that shesula too it's like because with the way that she's drawn it's like how bad of a thing it is to take up space it's like i think that there's

that too where it's like you like these men are drawing these women to be waifs because that's how they want as much space for women to take up you know what i mean it's right right they want people to be quiet but like you're large and you're loud and you sing songs that are cool then you're bad and then the the thing with ursula's character design that is kind of like strays from the direct criticism a little bit and there is a lot of like gray area to get into with with this discussion is that ursula like canonically was modeled on Divine, the drag queen who appeared in all of John Waters' films. And that was, like, the creators were pretty upfront

about, like, this is who we designed this character after. And, I mean, the gay community, to an extent, has embraced that. But it's just, like, the fact that that is the option for queer visibility is fucking ridiculous yeah i mean it's just it's the thing what's so amazing about divine and watching her movies is she is an example of being like a fat gay person who is funny who's radical who's outspoken who knows what she wants everyone loves her and if you don't love her she'll kill you where like she is ursula but like written by gay people like that's why divine is so incredible

where it's like when you let queer people write their own stories and have their own narratives and they don't get to be these like power hungry lesbians who want to like eat redheads right and like that is sometimes what we want to do, but it's different. And it's better because we said it. And you win. And it was both people win. Yeah. The redhead and the fat lesbian. Everyone wins.

Everyone wins. Everyone wins. There's a truer happy ending. Truly. To this movie. Yeah. to this movie. Yeah, and then another thing worth mentioning is there is like this weird blend between most of the movie's writers, directors

are straight guys, but the composer of the songs and also of, I think, Aladdin and Beauty and the Beast was a composer named Howard Ashman who was dying of AIDS throughout the writing of the songs for all three of those movies. And so there has been stuff. I mean, he never said anything about it explicitly in terms of like, how his illness corresponded to his work, if at all. But

apparently, he would advocate for like, okay, I want to write like a good song for this queer coded character. Because at the time, that's the only option for a queer character to appear is coded and bad. But Howard Ashman would write the best song for them? I mean, I don't know. But it is interesting that, I mean, there was an openly queer composer

writing all these songs that are the best part of all of the movies. Yes. It's like whoever wrote all of Cher's songs. You got to give the people what they want. Right. So, you know, he's the one penning the slappers. I just think it's also so, I mean, clearly like a doy-do-doy,

like men rule everything, but it's like why do men rule writing movies for children who are women? Like I don't understand. Like why do men rule everything but it's like why do men rule writing movies for children who are women like i don't understand like why do men rule everything like why i don't get why women can't even write movies for small girls it doesn't make sense they're like no actually we got this right well because even today we're uncomfortable looking yeah because even today the the same uh writers and directors of this movie also were the major creative players of moana which again is a feminist text so they learned a bit uh from between i'm sure women forced them to learn along the way yeah emotional labor was done yeah it is I mean it's

all this Disney stuff is like I'm so skull fucked by all of it I like can't can't make hazard but it's interesting

to see this you know the same the same directors 17 years later at least even if they don't want to the culture

had to force them to move forward at least a little bit although why aren't women allowed to direct Disney movies still? I just feel really lucky that I never had a princess phase and I never liked

Disney movies, so I do feel grateful for whatever reason. My brain was never Play-Doh molded by that, but I was like, how can I look like Jack Skellington? That was my Ariel. That's a different form of body dysmorphia. It's another unrealistic

body type set for children. I was like, Mom, can I have a straw, a black straw cape for Christmas, please? Don't ask why. Daphne Caruana Galizia was a Maltese

investigative journalist who on October 16th, 2017, was murdered. There are crooks everywhere you look now. The situation is desperate. My name is Manuel Delia. I am one of the hosts of Crooks Everywhere, a podcast that unhurts the plot to murder a one-woman Wikileaks. Daphne exposed the culture of crime and corruption Crooks Everywhere, a podcast that unhurts the plot to murder a one-woman WikiLeaks.

Daphne exposed the culture of crime and corruption that were turning her beloved country into a mafia state. And she paid the ultimate price. Listen to Crooks Everywhere on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. To listen to new episodes one week early and 100% ad-free, subscribe to the iHeartTrue Crime Plus channel, available exclusively on Apple Podcasts. It was December 2019 when the story blew up. In Green Bay, Wisconsin, former Packers star Kabir Bajabiamila caught up in a bizarre situation. KGB explaining what he believes led to the arrest of his friends at a children's Christmas play.

A family man, former NFL player, devout Christian, now cut off from his family and connected to a strange arrest. I am going to share my journey of how I went from Christianity to now a Hebrew Israelite. I got swept up in Kabir's journey, but this was only the beginning. In a story about faith and football, the search for meaning away from the gridiron and the consequences for everyone involved. You mix homesteading with guns and church and a little bit of the spice of conspiracy theories that we liked. Voila! You got straight away. I felt like I was living in North Korea, but worse, if that's possible. Listen to Spiraled on the iHeartRadio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I felt too seen. Dragged. get your podcasts. I felt too seen. Um, dragged. I'm NK, and this is Basket Case. So I basically had what back in the day they would call a nervous breakdown. I was crying and I was inconsolable. It was just very big, sudden swaps of different meds. What is wrong with me? Oh, look at you giving me therapy, girl. Finally, a show for the mentally ill girlies. On Basket Case, I talk to people about what happens when what we call mental health is shaped by the conditions of the world we live in.

Because if you haven't noticed, we are experiencing some kind of conditions that are pretty hard to live with. But if you struggle to cope, the society that created the conditions in the first place will tell you there's something wrong with you. And it will call you a basket case. Listen to basket case every Tuesday on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I wanted to talk a little bit about Ariel's agency and lack thereof and her like sense of adventure um because she is as we mentioned one of the earlier Disney princesses that has any

sort of a hint a whisper of agency but she uses that agency to make a lot of questionable choices but you know she's a teenager we all were idiots when we were teenagers. And then she also has a sense of adventure, much like the other Disney Renaissance princesses, where Belle is like, I want so much more than this provincial life. Well, this is the time that the literal formula for these movies became fully formed.

There's always that song where the princess is allowed to want something more, whatever that vague more is. It usually isn't a relationship until two minutes later. Right. Yeah, it's like Ariel starts as a character that, you know, at least there's something to her. She wants to learn more about this culture. She doesn't understand.'t understand to be part

of it she's investigating stuff she's collecting stuff she's seeking out answers even if the only person she knows is a dumbass seagull like she could there was no internet she couldn't she had to ask a seagull but she's like she is i think very active in very active and rebels against her father and starts out as like, oh, she's rejecting the norm of her society. She wants to learn more. And then, yeah, the second after that statement is made and part of your world, pretty clearly she's listing, here's things I'd like to know. And then, as far as we know, she never learns about it.

Right. It's like, why couldn't she have found like a map you know what i mean i just like that's what's so frustrating is like this text just manipulates all of our like innate beautiful desires for freedom and like existential quandary but these guys in the writer's room are like i just can't think of anything else she could do that could take her on like a journey of self-awakening right that's how we're getting married at 16 right that'll do it like there's nothing else she could do right the princesses they have these a sense of adventure but then they never go on an adventure because they just meet a man two seconds later and then their adventure becomes uh they literally never go further than like a mile from their house. Jasmine doesn't even get to move.

Like Aladdin moves into her house. Like it's fucked up. Right. And then I wanted to talk a little bit about just like in the climax of the story. This is an example of a movie where the protagonist does not get to participate in the climax, and Ariel is completely sidelined, very damseled because Eric has to step in and kill Ursula and save the day.

She does one thing at the climax, but she doesn't get the conclusive moment that she deserves. She's even robbed of the moment where she is able to get her own voice back. Scuttle's the one who like snatches the necklace and scuttle's a dumb bitch like how dare he take that from her he doesn't even know what a fork is fuck all birds know what forks are dumbass ariel does save a man at the beginning so that is a thing

but that's hardly I think that at the time this is like oh no she does stuff but it's all it's like empty gestures because she's not even the hero of her own story well what she does do which is pretty badass is that she blows smog

onto that pompous guy's face cause she thought it was good. She embarrassed a man. That dumbass bird was like, it's a recorder. Blow into it. She got to put tobacco ash in a man's mouth. I'm like, that's feminist.

That was powerful. I'll take it. Which made me think that she ends up becoming the born sexy yesterday type for at least a little bit, where once she gets to the human world, because she doesn't know what forks are, the thing that subverts that trope, I think,

is that she quickly learns. She realizes that she's doing it wrong. She picks it. Yeah, I think that the born sexy yesterday, there is something to that for this movie because we're at least there's like some vague like oh eric you know she's not the girl that he was horny for but he likes her because she doesn't know how to use things like and that's a part of the borns yeah so that's like the born sexy yesterday thing of

like even though the movie's like no he likes her for a reason but it's like the reason he likes her is because she's a little baby like right we see like there's like this unequal power dynamic between him and her where like the man knows how to conduct himself in this world and

she does not and nor does she have a voice to express her concerns or ask questions. So it's worse. Yes. Even worse. And, and yeah, like the moments where Eric looks cool is when he knows how to do basic

shit. He's like, Oh no, I use, it's actually a fork. You're just like, Oh, I wish it was a scene where she got to like acclimate to all these things

that she had in her treasure trove that she got to see now yeah that would have been cool if she like i don't know i was like what's a chair like is it a hat like who knows or if there is any moment where she got to demonstrate something she knew that he didn't because like there's a whole mermaid yeah there's a whole world she's acquainted with that he knows nothing about but he doesn't you know i mean we guess i guess part of the reason that is is because the second he finds out she's a mermaid he both is like oh and still hot and then the movie is over so well as soon as she becomes a human she can't swim anymore remember when she dives in the sea to like go after the wedding boat she would have more powerful arms

right but i don't know what it's like to be a mermaid but like i think it's all core like it's core sure sure i mean she had her core yeah she really and she she has legs that's that's a big part of swimming is legs it's not as good as a tail sure of course but like flounder has to like swim her to the boat like she can't even swim herself anymore a man had to take her there i'm a boy nonetheless although i mean it goes without saying that uh there's a lot of allegedly sexy fish in this movie however none of them are as sexy as the fish from the shape of water who is still the sexiest fish with the firmest ass. I would say second to that fish would be Larry the Lobster from the SpongeBob.

Oh, yes. Top two sexy fish. Yes. Sexy crustaceans. Oh, yes. And Larry, what an icon. Oh, truly. What an icon.

A buff icon uh can we talk a little bit about the romance between ariel and eric what romance right well she sees him and falls instantly in love with him which because movie because movie uh and this also happens like i can even extend my view is in Scorpio like I can extend like seeing someone being like boyoing like I sure to an extent but to the point where you'd neglect what you've spent your

whole life building simply chill one right no also she's a teen yeah so there's no time spent developing their relationship or establishing like reasons why they might like each other. It's just like that instant attraction that does happen, sure. But is it grounds for a marriage?

No. So yeah, this is just a movie where the people are close to each other and they are attracted to each other, so they must get married. Well, another thing that's mentioned a lot in the early Disney Renaissance reviews of this movie is, oh, Eric is the first prince that has a personality, which again is like, no, he doesn't. Although he does, well, recorder cape, right?

Right. Blouse. Recorder cape, blouse. So we've got a lot of elements going on. Because it's also like, even the beginning of the movie, the men get to have they get to have their storyline where they get to be like funny and quirky and like i don't know that what's the guy like the count olaf looking one who's like the old chancellor

yeah well him grimsby grimsby also everyone's british except for eric i'm like i don't understand this man the chef from Ohio and the chef who is French sings another great song oh yeah but like Grimsby gets to give Eric this like big statue and then like that gets to be like their little moment like that isn't extended to like any woman in the movie

where they get to have this expose of personality well the thing is like they're saying like oh Eric has a personality but he really doesn't but the reason they're saying that is again because the bar is so fucking low from previous princess movies where there's some there. It's always love at first sight, but it's like even more boring love at first sight. Right. Where, like, the prince in Sleeping Beauty is like, oh, and then he's like, man, she's asleep. And then he's like, I gotta go fight a dragon And then he's like, gotta go fight a dragon.

But you barely see, like, you don't know anything. So just because Eric is like, I don't like statues, and I play the recorder, they're like, wow, amazing progress. Character development at its best. I'm a sense of Blink-182. I'm not like the other boys. I'm not like the other princes. The thing is, if

a boy, if I met a boy when I was 16 who played the recorder, wore capes, and brooded, I would fuck him. So, you know, there's a lot of different ways to view it. Sure.

He's a manic pixie dream prince. Kind of. Yeah. He's kind of like an emo dream boy at times. But it's like, he doesn't really have that much of a personality. And we don't understand. Right. Yeah.

And the thing is, Ariel does have a personality, but he doesn't know that. Right. Because she can't talk. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Like, this is a movie targeted at children and like i under i understand like wanting to simplify something as complicated as romantic love to like cater to your

intended audience but also when you do that it sends very confusing and wrong messages there should be a disney princess who gets divorced yeah they. Like it should start with a marriage that is not working out. And she's like, actually, I want to get an education. It'd be like eat, pray, love.

But a princess. But she would have a crown. Eat, pray, princess. I also wanted to talk about the spell in Sebastian's song because the spell that Ursula puts on ariel means that like she must be kissed so it means that like a woman can't be active in her own

sexuality like she has to wait to be kissed uh and also the consent gets murky true because like yeah the the story requires her to need to be kissed but what if she's not ready she is proposed 16 after all sebastian there's like a bridge in the song where sebastian like explains basic consent definitely needs like of course you're gonna need a firm yes i'm sebastian instead we know eric can hear him right yeah because he says ariel and eric's like oh i speak crab so maybe he does have a personality maybe maybe because the lyrics of the song are actually this sebastian's like you should kiss the girl. And he says, possible she wanted to. There is one way to ask her. It don't take a word, not a single word.

Go on and kiss the girl. So it encourages not to check in with a girl to see if she wants to be kissed. It also just like informs that teen urgency to, because we all think that we have to like kiss or make out or like have sex from this like wildly young age that we're even like aware of any of these things where it like really preys on like the insecurity that you won't be valid unless you're kissed and you got three days to do it or you'll die. Right.

Right. Like your life is ruined if you don't get approval from this man, which is entirely, maybe Eric, like what if you don't get approval from this man, which is entirely. Maybe Eric, like what if Eric wasn't, what if Eric wanted to take things slow and then Ariel died? Right. Yeah.

It's bad for, for everyone. This, this curse being like, I have three days until prom. I haven't had sex. I'm going to die. But no,

it's not even that you'll die. It's that, it's that someone you barely know will die yeah because you because what if eric was like man i just like we need to also like to hear her talk we know like yeah it's like ariel could write something down i mean we know she can write canonically she can write because she signs her name on the contract yes so there's give the lady a quill like right she could have expressed this i don't know i don't know this movie's a mess right and also it's so short like we were talking backstage like the movie is 70 minutes long you had like at least another 20 25er yeah really like

break any of this down so it wasn't just like we're going to take a woman's complete agency away so she can't be a scientist to sell women in security the end. Right. Like you had 20 minutes. Right. Use it. Also it's announced that Eric is getting married and then Ariel thinks

that it's her that he's getting married to. But she wasn't asked. She wasn't asked. Knowing that it was not to. But she wasn't asked. She wasn't asked. Yeah. Knowing, you know, that it was not discussed. But she's like, yep, it's me. And she's stoked. And she's so excited. She's like, oh, I guess he decided last night that he wants to marry me, so legally I must.

Right. But then Eric's a dog. He was just going to marry someone else because she could hit, like, Mariah Carey whistle tones. It's implied that it's a dog he was just gonna marry someone else because she could hit like mariah carey whistle tones like it's it's implied that it's a curse but there that's also like trouble of implying that like i mean and this is like goes back forever of like men saying like oh she tricked me into doing something like how men you know often in in movies especially movies of this era will say like oh she tricked me into marrying her and i didn't actually want to marry her but she tricked and that is literally what we

see happen of uh he is put under a spell and then uh gets married it's just you know another way men can offload regret onto women who did nothing wrong yeah Good to teach that young. Yeah. Subtle minds. To like a queer coded character. We've already been conditioned to hate. Also tricked a man into marrying her when she was bad. It's like, it's just bad. Yeah. I don't know if this is worth talking about, but this movie presents the idea that Ariel needs to be under constant

supervision because she's like a rascally she's a rebel and Sebastian says someone should nail that girl's fins to the floor uh yeah yep like when I was a teenager my parents were way more strict with me than with my brother same uh same because there's like yeah it's the idea that like oh boys they're allowed to go out and like you know make mistakes misbehave because like boys will be boys jump off the roof girls have to be you know well behaved and i feel like this is an example that perpetuates that yeah i think especially if the girl doesn't have like there's no matriarch figure that is positive like she doesn't have a mom it's no matriarch figure that is positive.

Like she doesn't have a mom. It's just like back to like King Triton just being by himself. Like me and all these daughters. Where there's that too, where he's like, I don't know what to do with my daughter. So I have to like break all of her things and watch her all the time. Right. Like his solution to not knowing how to parent someone is to just oppress them. Yeah. And make sure that they don't stray outside the norm at all.

Because he's like, well, I don't know how to deal with anything, but there's one thing I know, so if you don't do that, you're canceled. It would be a really good scene if Ariel would be able to talk to her sisters and be like, geez, dad's kind of a dick, right? Right? Because I'm like, are they just cool with him?

I mean, that transitioned really well into the whole lack of matriarch discussion and the way Disney treats mothers and motherhood in this very bizarre way up until very recently and then still sometimes not well. But this is an example of a movie that most of the Renaissance movies subscribe to this exact because all the Renaissance movies are the same, where it's like a single father. The mother is dead and not addressed. We don't know what happened,

and there's no matriarch figure in her life. The same for Jasmine, the same for Belle, the same for Pocahontas, I believe, as well. Yes. Mulan has a mom, yay, But she doesn't get to do much. And a grandma. Yeah. Mulan's grandma is like incredible.

Horny grandma. Horny grandma. Hashtag horny grandma. Hashtag horny grandma, which is a trope, but I don't always hate it. But this one lacks a maternal figure at all. But in earlier iterations of the previous generation of Disney princesses, had maternal figures and they were evil. Where Snow White and Cinderella have evil stepmothers. And the implication there always tends to be, if you are a mother who is not a biological mother you cannot love a child as

purely as a biological mother could right which is of course fucking ridiculous it's just so insidious that from like conception from like the jump that we were able to look at anything and understand in any sort of like cultural way like we're just taught from the start from these movies that we have to hate other women like that's all these men want to do and that's why they want to write these movies where it's like we're gonna make all of these insidious plot points that you will never have a girl gang ever it'll never be a girl boss yeah and there's i mean and the like the solution to defeating a woman is always a man. And having a man in your life to help you defeat the only other woman you've met. It's horrible.

It's horrible. And then if we're talking about King Triton, he's the worst Disney father to me. Because Maurice, Belle's's dad he's a shitty inventor right so he's like incompetent but like so are many fathers right Triton is genuinely a

bad person I mean we know he's a bad person he destroys her shit he totally limits everything she can do but he's also made out to look sympathetic and by the end we get that moment where she's like, I love you, daddy. And she's not, you know, we don't get to see that conflict play out where there's this huge conflict between them. He destroys everything she owns. She's devastated.

She rebels against him by selling her body to Ursula. And then it's chill. Right. It's chill later on and the fact that you know we have we're coming off of this whole history of evil stepmothers going into this movie and we see a father act

like an evil stepmother would but then we're supposed to be like oh but he's trying his best because he has abs they're like oh pancake nipples doesn't get his daughter so it's okay that he's abusive would you say selling body now i'm like there's kind of like an anti-sex work element to this too where it's like i feel like they really give her this like evil like i own a brothel vibe as well

where she like owns all of these people but it's like tr Triton's a king! He owns people too. Yeah. And we don't get to really see him do anything other than put on a little show for his daughters, who I'm assuming are unpaid for that gig. Pay artists, everybody. Jesus Christ. Also, Triton does not

check in with Ariel to see if she wants to be turned back into a human. He just doesn't. Yeah! Like, what if she wants to be turned back into a human. He just does it. Like what if she didn't like being a human? Like what if those three days she's like, no, I actually, I'm going to go back.

Like she went on like human rumspringa basically. And it was like, no, I do want to return to my mer people community. And then he was just like, Oh, she's looking at a human. So better turn her back into one. Like,

and then the fact that she can only become a human, why is he the only person who has that power and ability right we saw ursula has the ingredients it can clearly be done without your fucking penis stick that he carries around like it can clearly be done and she's smart enough we're allowed to believe to be able to make it happen herself but she just is never allowed to make it happen. Are Trina and Ursula like siblings? I feel like I've read lore to that effect. I've read lore.

They have similar powers. Right. They're the only two people who can do jack shit in the whole world. Are they like twins? I don't know. Maybe. I wish we just knew more about Ursula's background at all. We just don't know anything about her. know I mean I wish we just knew more about Ursula's background at all we just don't know

anything about her totally because that would make sense like why are they both two people who are able to do all this like wacky

incredible powerful magic right but one's good and one's bad but it's the same thing but like when when the woman does it

it's actually bad right they literally do the same spell but but when Triton does it it's actually good I wanted to just cover a little context

stuff really quick where this is one of the many Disney movies that's adapted from a very old folk tale by Hans Christian Andersen ever heard of him and the adaptation of this I mean this is like fairly common knowledge,

but the way the little mermaid ends in the story is that she turns, you know, she realizes that she is never going to be a part of the human world in a meaningful way

because she is a mermaid and she turns into sea foam and dies. So she turns into a big pile of cum. A foam? She just disses. She foams.

Okay, also. She gets foamy and then she die. Also, I like really quick backtracking, but pre-foam is that like the scene where Ursula becomes massive, she has like a giant sea queef when everything just turns like black. Oh, yeah.

She sludge underneath her. And I'm like, that's supposed to be bad. She inks herself yeah and it's incredible um so the Hans Christian Andersen story ends very differently something I learned uh when I was researching this episode is that there is a lot of queer coding in Hans Christian Andersen stories that I wasn't aware of um because at the time of Hans Christian Andersen's stories that I wasn't aware of because at the time of Hans Christian Andersen being queer was illegal so he was a queer man which was found in many of his letters he had affairs with men that were expressed through letters and there was a

particular affair he had with a higher class a man of a higher class than he was who ended up having to marry a woman of a higher class because hetero uh etc and so this is a part of his personal history and a lot of the interpretation around it is that the little mermaid was this expression of hans christian anderson is ariel or who is ariel in the the movie the object of his affection is Eric and so turning into sea foam at the end is basically just and queer relationships aren't allowed so I have to turn

into foam emotionally so there is I know we gotta all you know take a shot for Hans tonight because he had it right. I mean, and it is interesting, like reading about queer literature of like you have to really code it in metaphor on metaphor on metaphor to be able to discuss an issue like this at all. Because if you just were queer, you would not be allowed to be, you know be working in any capacity. And so I don't know, like learning that really,

and I don't think that that reading of it is taken into account in the Disney adaptation at all. Oh, of course not. I did find it to be like an interesting example of how queer artists had to express themselves at this time in order to express literally anything. Yeah, that's really interesting context. Shouts out to Hans. Where's his biopic? Is there one? I don't know.

There is. Is it good? What's it called? I hope it's not Christian. I hope it's not Christian. Christian sounds like another guy who would black out at a party all the time.

You with that mermaid? That's cool. Is your name Mildred? But yeah, so it's interesting that there are so many, or not so many, I guess two, queer artists. They're where Hans Christian Ericsson writes the original story and then it's adapted with all this incredible music by Howard Ashman but it still

ends up being an incredibly oppressive heteronormative piece that has been decimating the lives of children for going on 30 years. Yes, indeed. It has. Incredible. Love it. Does anyone have any other final thoughts? let me check my notes here uh

nope talked about the sea queef so uh i i just wish that this story would could have been written with like ariel as like a riot girl that's like what i was like we're we're in washington we're near olympia where i just feel like they have that so close where it's, like, such a cool story to talk about being 16 and, like, hating everything and wanting to swim to the surface and, like, pick up a cool rock you found near a train track and add it to your collection and, like, see if it's a crystal maybe. Who knows?

But instead they had to make it patriarchy. I just, like like want there to be retribution for ariel yeah and like have her sing in a band called like clitoral attack or something c clit yeah everything has to be c we're like c microphone when she sat in her sea chair and ate seafood. That's a real thing. She had sea bugles for a sea snack. I just wanted to say that there is a line that Scuttle says, look what the catfish dragged in. And I just want to say that catfish have zero nipples.

And that's catfish facts with Caitlin. I would like to say that Alfred Molina could have played any part in this movie because he's a versatile character actor who we know and love.

You know, my close friend at this point. Alfred Merlina, he has late eyes on my face. It's true. I would say, and I'm just channeling him, my close friend. I would say that he received the script for this movie and wrote back a long letter explaining that, actually, this was a story by a queer author

and that he wasn't seeing any of those tones represented, and so he refuses to participate, even for $75 million. Wow. What a story. I think it's not a story. It's the truth. So shout out to icon Alfred Molina.

Let's take some questions or comments from the crowd. If you have something, come on up so that you can talk into the mic. Does anyone have? Yeah, come on up. Hi, what's your name? Megan. Hi. Hi. I just want to take a second to cape for,

or to like record or cape for Ursula as feminist icon. Because even as like a straight little girl, I was like, yes, because she like is trying to topple the patriarchy. She runs her own business. She has employees. She's obviously in charge of legal like she's drawing up contracts which neither of the two heroes we see signing a contract even look at but we're like yeah that's

cool like she's trying to disclose everything to them and she's like by the way no one up top is gonna want to hear you talk and Ariel's like chill and then she just signs a thing but the whole time Ursula's just like trying to run her business. She's above board. She really is. That's a great point. She's got a 401k. Yeah. Sea 401k. Oh yeah, no, we came up with... We have like a headcanon now that

like, because she's the witch, we were like, oh, maybe she was like the sea medicine woman. And maybe she was the sea doula. And that's why Ariel's mom is dead and why Triton kicked her out of the ocean. And that's why Ariel's mom is dead and why Triton kicked her out of the ocean. And that's why she's so mad. Whoa. That's the point, darling.

Ursula, sea doula, feminist icon. Love it. Thank you. It's a shirt. That's a great point about there is a plot point in this movie where it's just like, no, sorry, it's a legally binding document. You're like, okay, weird moment to adhere to the rules of the real world. Any other questions, comments?

Yes, come on up. Hi. Hi. My concept of Ursula is a little bit more sexual, but I have two concepts or theories i feel like what happens to the wedding guests possibly when ursula becomes really huge is like a titanic reference where everyone's actually drowning in the water while this whole scene is happening but we don't see that titanic element where are the lifeboats none there were not enough lifeboats on that boat exactly unbelievable uh the other theory that i have is that king triton actually killed ariel's mom

because ursula was doing some weird tentacle like sexual beautiful things with a's mom, so that's why Ursula turns him into a turd at the end. You know, because she's trying to take back what was her kingdom, which was a big lesbian kingdom. Yeah. Wow. Canon. Canon.

Ursula's just trying to topple the dick palace. The literal dick palace. And turn it into a queefdom. Yeah. We had someone else up here? Yeah. Oh. So I just wanted to say, Ursula has

several hundred lost souls trapped in her cave. I think this is just further evidence that Triton is a terrible ruler, because I feel like there's not that many people in the sea. Like, if, like, half the people in this room disappeared all of a sudden, I feel like I would look around and be like, oh, maybe some people left.

But he's just like, there's several hundred people who I've never seen again. And he never tries to stop her. Yeah. He also seems to know where she lives. Like, where she's at. He's like, hi, Larry.ry hi bobby sorry you're a turd now and clearly they're like a lot of people dissatisfied with their lives that are like taking drastic legal legal measures to like try and find a better life but they're just like no

i and king triton has like no feelings about any of these people who have just left his kingdom to try and better themselves. God. Thank you. That's so true. Triton's like, I'm too distracted. I owe my daughter. I can't fuck. We had another question up here.

I just wanted to say that there's not only a demonization of queer-coded characters, but of octopi. True. Just a quick in defense of octopi. True. Quick in defense of octopi. They are incredible caretakers. When a female octopus gives birth, she lays all of her eggs and then stays with them, caring for them until she dies as a sacrifice.

So quick defense of octopi. Thank you. Are you a woman in STEM? Wow. Maternal icons. Brave. Yeah. To further talk about Ursula,

this movie does pass the loftiest test. Yes, it does. Baldest woman in charge. It does. Thank God. Baldest woman in charge. I want to say she is the baldest woman and she is fully in charge. It does. Thank God. Baldest woman in charge. Honestly, she is the baldest woman, and she is fully in charge. Wow.

I think we have time for one more, if there's one more. To your point that, like, Ursula and Triton were, like, siblings, I Googled it. Once the lights came up, they're, like, confirmed siblings. Whoa! Who confirmed it? It was, like, part of the original screenplay was that they were siblings and you know her like little shell that she wears yes that was like her source of power and triton got the trident and she got banished because like she was trying to be too greedy because they got like two halves of

like the kingdom okay and so he was like you're too opinionated and you have too much power i'm gonna take it away why does he get to banish her if they have equal power like you're you're too opinionated and you have too much power. I'm going to take it away from you. Why does he get to banish her if they have equal power? Like, you're not better than her. We know why. Yeah. We know why. We know why.

She's doing good signing contracts. She's a lawyer now. Oh my God. So then Ursula, if that person's points right, then Ursula was sleeping with Trite, with her brother's wife? Wow. I mean, honestly, sleeping with her brother's wife.

I mean, honestly, imagine if your sister, who is a lawyer and smarter than you, started hooking up with your wife. You'd be like, oh my God. I also love how none of these are questions. Right, I know. Everyone's like, excuse me. I was like, actually. I love our listeners so much valid

point everyone's unhinged yeah that's really true though like ursula she probably didn't want more power than him or like she wasn't being greedy she just wanted equal power and he's like fuck you you're banished right but he shouldn't be in theory theory, if they have equal power, why would he be able to banish her to, like, vagina cave? Sea patriarchy. And also, it looks like Ursula's, like, area is the same size as the kingdom, where, as you pointed out, like, 14 people live. She's storing a lot of souls. He's in charge of, like, a private school second grade class.

She should Marie Kondo her soul storage. Should we decide if it passes the Bechdel test? Oh. No. No. You know. Making sure. Right.

Because even the few conversations or like exchanges between Ariel and Ursula that technically may pass because a man's name isn't mentioned. Because there's a line where Ursula's like, the only thing is to become a human yourself. And then she's like, can you do that? But the context is all about a man and changing Ariel's whole self to be with a man. The one exchange I found that may pass is bad. It's towards the very end where Ursula is about to do the death queef. And Ariel says, you monster. And Ursula says, don't mess with me, you little brat.

Oh. Yeah. So, you know, you little brat. Oh. Yeah. So, you know, an iconic exchange. That was the one maybe I was able to find. That's an excerpt of me talking to my mom in high school. You monster. I feel like because Ursula's whole goal is to overthrow and steal the power of triton which she rightfully like that was great she's just trying to topple the patriarchy so yeah and then we and then eric stabbed her poor ursula yeah i know yeah i would i'm okay with saying

that's a pass that exchange i think that that is somehow a pass, yeah. Because she is kind of, it's still contextually about a man, but it's about overthrowing a man. So please disregard everything we've just said. The Bechdel test is a perfect metric and it passes. Yeah. It's a feminist text. Shall we give it give it nipples yeah let's

grade on our nipple scale alright zero to five nipples based on its portrayal of women I'm gonna go with a half nipple

I think I know is it more of an areola it is definitely a King Triton pancake areola. Yeah, I mean, between any semblance of agency and sense of adventure that Ariel is given is immediately taken away from her.

The whole story is about her sacrificing herself and everything about herself to be with a man, all of the character design that is damaging, all of the queer coding that's damaging. Everything about it is not good, but I have to give it a half nipple for the song Poor Unfortunate Souls. So that's that.

But yeah, so half nipple will go to ursula yeah yeah uh i'll give it a half nipple as well and just to add to that it is like frustrating to uh see a female character in spite of all the like negative physical uh things that are happening in the character design and all that but to have a female character set up with a personality with an interest that isn't a heterosexual relationship and like setting up here's gonna be a cool character that we can root for and then literally remove all of it and then to a point and when you see it when you're young enough you don't even realize that that's what's happening. Sure. So that made me sad. Yes.

Half nipple because Ursula and I'm giving it to Flotsam. Sure. Because I don't think eels have nipples and I would like to give them a shot. Maybe the person who knows a lot about octopuses. Do eels have nipples? They do not. They don't. Good.

Confirm. They don't. Yeah. Sameirmed. They don't. Yeah, same, like, half to full to one nipple. I think it's, like, the only, to me, cool thing about this movie is that Ursula is so badass.

I think it's really cool in 2019 to have this, like, resurgence of queers and allies alike who understand, like, how radical she is, like, even within how unfortunately she was portrayed

in this movie but to now have this like icon of like fat dyke who like is a lawyer as someone has now pointed out to us like and a chemist like and like pays her own bills like pays the rent like mortgage like on top of it like good credit score yeah like to just have her to exist in all of our canons and all of our cultural understandings of disney to me it's like that gives it the one but that's because of us not because of them right like we gave her that yeah yeah yeah so who would you like to give your nipple to? Oh, right, right, right. I got carried away. It sounded like a threat the way

you said it. I'm gonna give my one nipple to the woman who gave Ariel the bath. Oh, yeah. Yes, another character who we get to sort of meet, but we never get to get to know her as well as literally any man we meet at any point in the story.

Right. But she seems nurturing. I don't know. She does bathe a nude stranger. I don't know what the customs in this country are. It was a different time. Sure. Sure.

Well, that's the damn show. Yeah. Give it up for yourselves. Give it up for Clara. Clara, where can people follow you? That's the damn show. Yeah. Give it up for yourselves. Give it up for Clara. Clara, where can people follow you? Yeah. What would you like to plug? You can follow me on Instagram at realchrisangel.

I'm trying to get crossover fans. And that's C-R-I-S-S, angel, real, Chris Angel. Please follow me. He's furious. Awesome. Thanks again for coming. Good night. So that was the episode.

Yeah, it was so, so, so much fun. Thank you to everyone who was there. It was a packed show. Yes, so much fun. Just a couple quick notes uh we did the like q a at the end little you know audience questions and comments which was so much fun yeah but the audio quality some of the people they couldn't make it up to the stage to talk into the mic so there were a couple people whose questions comments we had to cut because just the audio didn't pick up on the recording.

Our apologies go out to you if you had your comment cut. One of them was... Please come to our houses, kill us. We're not doing that for you. So one was defending Scuttle. I was there for it. I was fully there for it. We were sorry we came down so hard on Scuttle.

Shouts out to the Scuttle Sand. We were put in our place. Yes, indeed. we we're sorry we came down so hard on scuttle shuts out shouts out to the scuttle sand we were put in our place yes indeed and then another one was a mother who said she recently watched the movie with her young daughter and just was horrified at the messages that the movie was sending and how her daughter was struggling to understand what was wrong with the movie because all this like patriarchal ideas being implanted into the minds of just like we were all and we watched it for the first time and yeah starting with they get the kids young with the patriarchy but uh shouts out to the seattle mom who was doing the work getting out

in front of it crushing the patriarchy in advance yes indeed yes and then the last really quick thing was that um i was talking to joan ford friend of the cast on our scream episode so if you haven't listened go back and listen and i told her that we had recorded a little mermaid episode and she asked if we had talked about the interpretation of the movie as a trans narrative at all. Right. And there are so many fascinating different interpretations of the movie. And yes, what did you want to say? I said I didn't think we did, but would you mind sharing your thoughts? And she said, I'll just go ahead and read it here. Quote.

As I've transitioned, I've come to think of Ariel as sort of a trans icon. The parallels are pretty clear. She was born into one body, but feels like she belongs in another, and does the work to make that transformation happen. Sure, she makes some bad choices along the way, but the road to realizing your true self is usually a rocky one, especially if you have a family that doesn't accept you and you're forced to figure out stuff on your own.

In parentheses, writing this, I'm realizing we should be celebrating Sebastian and Flounder as cinema's original trans allies. Hell yeah. Sebastian takes a little longer to get on board, but he really redeems himself during Kiss the Girl. Anyways, that's why I take issue with the Ariel changes herself to be with a man narrative that critics tend to impose on the movie. Ariel wants to be human from moment

one. She sings Part of Your World, her trans anthem, long before she ever sets eyes on Prince Eric. Eric may be the catalyst that finally gets her to take action and go see Ursula, but that decision is all rooted in her long-held conviction that she wants to be where the people are. Whether or not Eric is worthy of her is kind of beside the point to me, as I think it's pretty common for kids to latch on to new people when they're going through this kind of big self-realization. Maybe they're going to be together forever. Maybe she moves on when she realizes the world is huge and there are so many more humans out of the sea. The important thing is that he was there offering her that possibility of a new and different life when she

needed it. And then again, in parentheses, she says she says by the way i know i'm being kind of generous about ariel's options as a woman in the 1800s but whatever it's a fantasy if a mermaid can grow legs then i think it's also fair to think she can have an amicable divorce also anyone who thinks giving up your voice to a sea witch is rough should try getting hormone replacement therapy through Kaiser Permanente. If you don't know what Kaiser Permanente is, it's like a health care facility in California. She said they make you jump through so many hoops. I wish I knew a sea witch who could have cut me that straightforward of a deal. So that's what John said.

So I thought that was a really awesome interpretation of the movie. And then I was just chatting with her a little bit after that. And we agreed that that was more than likely not any of the intentions of the filmmakers to try to create this like allegorical trans narrative. But that's what fantasies are for. And that's why we got to discuss so many different interpretations of it in the episode as well i'm so glad that she let us know because that tracks 100 percent um i don't know i mean as as problematic as these um old fairy tales tend to be there are always a million different ways to see yourself uh inside of them and which is you

know probably why they're, they're still around. I love that. Yeah. Same. Joan, follow Joan on everything. Yes.

Follow her. You can check her out on Instagram at Joan Haley Ford. And read her book as well. Yes, indeed. So yeah, that's just the, the kind of the,

after the footnotes to channel miles Gray that we wanted to include on this episode. And then also just to say thanks again to our guest of the show, Clara Pluton. We wanted to say thanks again to the Jewel Box Theater at the Rendezvous in Seattle for having us there. And thank you to everyone who came. It really was such a fun couple of shows that we did there. Yes. And we will be back. That was the show where someone brought me a Mike's Hard Lemonade light.

Lamp. Whoa. Wait. Remember? Oh, the lamp. I heard Mike's Hard Lemonade light and I thought of like crystal light, like a diet light, like a bud light kind of thing. I wish they made it like cocaine form, but they do not yet.

Yes, it was an illuminated sign type. Yeah, that shows with me always. This specific show looms above me every single day. Oh, and then also thanks again to our road dog and audio engineer, Sammy Junio. Friend of the cast. She's the man episode. Go back and listen to it. Indeed.

And I believe, you know, thank you for listening. Check us out on all the normal places. Bechdelcast.com on Twitter and Instagram at Bechdel cast. Just another reminder to contribute to our Black Girls Code fundraiser by buying our Rise of the Matriarchy t-shirt at tpublic.com slash thebechdelcast. And that's where all of our designs are for all of our merch. Yes. But yeah, prioritize the

Rise of the Matriarchy one for now. Or else. Yeah, or else. And then of course our Matrion, two bonus episodes every month for $5, including the entire backlog of all the bonus episodes. So you're getting like 40 bonus episodes. Yeah, we got a ton. You're missing out if you're not a Matreon.

Yeah. So join. Join up. Be part of the world of the Matreon. And if you're not, you're going to be a poor, unfortunate soul. Whoa. And then go out there and eat some les poissons unless you're you know you don't eat fish yeah yeah and then go out and eat something else some live vegetable broccoli go eat some broccoli this has descended into chaos. See you later. Bye.

Daphne Caruana Galizia was a Maltese investigative journalist who on October 16th, 2017, was assassinated. Crooks Everywhere unearths the plot to murder a one-woman WikiLeaks. She exposed the culture of crime and corruption that were turning her beloved country into a mafia state. Listen to Crooks Everywhere on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. To listen to new episodes one week early and 100% ad-free, subscribe to the iHeart True Crime Plus channel, available exclusively on Apple Podcasts. Kay hasn't heard from her sister in seven years.

I have a proposal for you. Come up here and document my project. All you need to do is record everything like you always do. What was that? That was live audio of a woman's nightmare. Can Kay trust her sister, or is history repeating itself? There's nothing dangerous about what you're doing they're just dreams dream sequence is a new horror thriller from blumhouse television iheart radio and realm listen to dream sequence on the iheart radio app apple

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