The Bechdel Cast - The Princess Diaries with Marcia Belsky

Episode Date: January 3, 2019

Jamie and Caitlin invite special guest Marcia Belsky on the show to tell her that she's actually the Princess of Genovia.(This episode contains spoilers)For Bechdel bonuses, sign up for our Patreon at patreon.com/bechdelcast.Follow @MarciaBelsky on Twitter! While you're there, you should also follow @BechdelCast, @caitlindurante and @jamieloftusHELP Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Daphne Caruana Galizia was a Maltese investigative journalist who on October 16th 2017 was assassinated. Crooks Everywhere unearthed the plot to murder a one-woman WikiLeaks. She exposed the culture of crime and corruption that were turning her beloved country into a mafia state. Listen to Crooks Everywhere on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, you're just starting your career. That's where we come in. Think of us as your work besties you can turn to for advice. And if we don't know the answer, we bring in people who do, like negotiation expert Maury Tahiripour. If you start thinking about negotiations as just a conversation, then I think it sort of eases us a little bit. Listen to Let's Talk Offline on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, everybody. This is Matt Rogers. And Bowen Yang. We've got some exciting news for you.

You know we're always bringing you the best guests, right? Well, this week we're taking it to the next level. The one, the only, Katherine Hahn is joining us on Lost Culture East. That's right. The queen of comedy herself. Get ready for a conversation that's as hilarious as it is insightful. Tune in for all the laughs, the stories,

and of course, the culture. Don't miss Katherine Hahn on Las Culturistas. Listen to Las Culturistas on Will Ferrell's Big Money Players Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. On the Bechdelcast, the questions asked if movies have women in them. Are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands or do they have individualism? The patriarchy's effing vast. Start changing it with the Bechdel cast. Hi everyone, Caitlin here. You are about to hear a live episode that we recorded in New York, but we just wanted to do a few quick plugs at the top of the show. First of all, if you're

listening to this in early January 2019, happy new year. If you're listening to this in like, I don't know, 2157, then there's probably a Terminator who's trying to kill you right now. And I'm sorry. Also, where's our episode on Terminator or Terminator 2? Because Sarah Connor, feminist icon. Anyway, don't forget that we have a live show coming up in LA on January 12th at 9pm at the Ruby. We are covering Romy and Michelle's high school reunion with past guests of the show, Danielle Perez. So grab your tickets to that on Bechtelcast.com and click on the live appearances tab. Also, at the time of this recording, we still have a few tickets left to our San Francisco show on January 20th and our Portland

show on January 23rd. And those tickets are also at Bechtelcast.com, but they are going fast. So grab yours as soon as possible. Another reminder that I personally am running a couple of intro to screenwriting workshops, one in Portland, Oregon on January 22nd, and one in Seattle on January 26th. So if you want to be like me, someone who does have a master's degree in screenwriting from Boston University, but I hate to bring it up, and you want to learn a bunch about screenwriting, then register for my workshop, which you can do if you go to caitlanderante.com and click on the shows tab. Okay, that should do it for now, so enjoy the show. The Bechdelcast. Hi! Hey everyone! Hi! Welcome to the Bechtelcast! Yeah! There's so many people, this is exciting! We're in New York City, ever heard of it? Oh my god, very overwhelming. I was wondering who was

gonna say the name of the city first because I felt insecure being like, hi New York City. I don't know. I used to live here, brag, so it feels like home. Wow. I lived in Boston for 900 years, and then I, yeah. All right. Well, welcome to the Bechtel cast. Thanks for being here. Yeah. Look at yourselves.

So many vertical people. My name is Jamie Loftus. My name is Caitlin Durante. We talk about the portrayal of women in movies and how it's generally pretty bad. This is our last date on our East Coast tour. Yes, and we're here with the New York Comedy Festival, so shouts out to them. Thanks for having us. Yeah, give it up for the New York Comedy Festival.

So just a quick clap it up if you listened to the Bechdel cast before. And like no judgment, but clap if you haven't. Hey, honesty, love it. Brave. Thanks for coming with your friends. Brave. Yeah, imagine not listening to a it. Brave. Thanks for coming with your friends. Brave.

Yeah, imagine not listening to a podcast. Unbelievable. No, that's fine. So we will sort of break down how we run the show before we start. So we are a podcast about how women are portrayed in famous movies, and we use the Bechdel test as a jumping off point for that discussion so Bechdel test is a test invented by illustrator writer general amazing person Alison Bechdel and Caitlin break it down for us it requires that a movie let's say has two female at least two female identifying characters they must speak to each other for at least two female-identifying characters. They must speak to each other

for at least two lines of dialogue, very low bar, and their conversation cannot be about men, but guess what? Most movies don't pass. But today's movie... You're not supposed to tell them now. I didn't say anything yet.

But today's movie... Today's movie remains to be seen, but I don't know. I have a good feeling about it. Okay. Let's test it out because I do. Oh, no, wait. This isn't going to pass the vital test. Let's just have dialogue for a moment.

Okay. Sometimes when it's usually a man, not to put anyone in a box, but if someone asks me about the podcast and it's like a guy, he's like, so yeah, it's like a guy he's like so yeah it's what it's like a show and you you uh talk about whether it passes the Bechdel test or not I was like that would be a very short show I mean it would just be a word yes or no yes uh no and they're like so yeah that's uh that's pretty cool how do you do it yeah I've listened and uh yeah it's just so you guys talk about for like what three hours about if it passes the bechdel test or not pretty cool yeah it's a little bit of that awesome but it's a lot more you know you guys know yeah if you've heard of the bechdel test you know it's a flawed

metric what was the one oh we did miss congeniality and there's something that passes the Bechdel test which is literally Candice Bergen threatening to murder Sandra Bullock, but it passes because woman-on-woman murder passes the Bechdel test. And we're okay with it. But that's not the movie we're talking about today. No. I'm so excited for the movie we're talking about today. It's a modern classic.

A little movie called The Princess Diaries. Yeah. I'm in the minority here. I see how it is. Anyone else thinks it's kind of stupid? No, they don't. Okay, just me. Just me.

Make no noise. Stay very quiet. But do, clap if you haven't seen that movie before yikes a trap door just opened in the floor okay so it is i mean it's a good job everyone it's a classic we all should have been, you know, at least once a year for the past 20 years. But yeah, I'm so excited. We're doing The Princess Diaries and we have an incredible guest. Oh, yes. She is the creator of Headless Women of Hollywood. She is the co-host of the Missandry podcast and she is the creator and star of the Handmaid's Tale musical. Please welcome Marsha Belsky. Marsha, Marsha.

You're the wave from the movie. I was going to try and do that coming up. Thank you for being here today. Thank you for being here today. Famously with the drink in her hand. Why doesn't Julie Andrews get drunk in this movie? She is. It's implied.

She's fucking the driver. She's getting drunk. She's having fun. Okay. That is one of the things I noticed in this movie more so than ever is she's fucking the driver. Mm-hmm.

Oh, yeah. And they're not just fucking. They're fucking. Because he's the driver, but he feels comfortable enough to go up to her like, excuse me, madame, you're a bad grandmother.

It's like he goes, yeah, it's like the implication. He's like, I just purchased a new chair for fucking. Would you like to give it a spin? It's very... And Julie Andrews is like, this is what older women in Hollywood... Although I

love that guy. The guy who plays Joe Hector. Hector Alonso. Yes. Someone knows their character actors. Yes. Alfred Molina could have played that part. So, Marsha, what's your history, your relationship with The Princess Diaries? Thank you so much for asking that.

Anytime. Honestly, because we were talking about it before a little bit, because you didn't watch it when it came out. Because I think that's the... Classic mystery. I'm sure if I watched it now for the first time I would be like and even re-watching it I was like oh my god you know but I remember so distinctly when it came out and I was like 12 or something like that not to age myself but I am 13 and

um now like re-watching it's like I'm just immediately transported back to like hanging with my friend Molly like you know just like I remember you did Molly when you were 12? alone and then watched the Princess Diaries which is not what you're supposed to do but I learned a lot and I grew

yeah I just remember because it was like she has hair like me and it was the first time I had seen someone with hair like me and then we soon find out it's what's keeping her from being a lady so then they straighten her hair and pluck her eyebrows and I was like is that how I would look and then I was like no I'm still fat so I was okay come on I was I was a fat kid and I think that that that's why I'm interesting as a person. So if you were a skinny kid who's still skinny, you're not relatable.

If you've been hot your whole life, you're probably not here, honestly. Yeah, you're probably not here. You're not watching movies. It's not our listener base. Yeah, out on a boat somewhere in the fall. I hope that's not offensive, but I would wager to say that lifelong hotties are not Bechdel cast target hotties. You're going to get an email from Giselle, and she's like, I actually love your podcast. Wow.

Please, anyone who's always been devastatingly hot, hit us up. Hit us up. Yell at us. Let us know we're wrong. Let us know we're wrong let us know does it pass the bechdel if the two women are extremely hot because then there's zero movies um there's well because this movie does pass the bechdel oh yeah oh wait we haven't gotten there yet i guess but oh it's fine this movie possibly passes the bechdel but i was thinking I was like in the two women scenes there's a lot of talk of like country

and duty which is like not like a man but there's also just mostly talk about the dead dad then the rest of it is just like women critiquing other women's looks so does that pass the Bechdel because technically you're not talking about men but like half the movie is just them being like alright

spin no there's like three different characters who make a retching noise at looking at anne hathaway oh my god like oh it's true yeah yeah and the only like gay representation is like the hair salon there's like a. And then he turns out to be evil. It's true. A Disney queer coded villain. Yes. Ever heard of, of course. Classic.

He should have like merch. He should be like canonically a Disney villain. He might as well cast Jafar in that role. Oh my God. I just realized such a good Halloween costume that I missed is I should have been the, where they take away the two photos of her with curly hair. A past guest of the show was the before Rebecca Bolness. She was the before picture.

That's so smart. I mean, I just live my life as the before picture. So Jamie, what's your history with the movie? I love it. I saw it when it came out with all my cousins and my mom. Before I saw it, I had only seen the poster

and hot Anne Hathaway's on the poster. And there was a boy at school because I was like eight or nine when it came out. And there was a boy at school who was like, Jamie, I saw someone in a movie who looks just like you. And I was like, and he's like, it's the Princess Diaries school who's like, Jamie, I saw someone in a movie who looks just like you. And I was like, and he's like, it's the Princess Diaries.

I was like, oh my god, because I didn't know about the makeover. And he was like, yeah, at the beginning of the movie, she looks just like you. I was like, oh my god, I have to see it. And James McAvoy, I'll just call him out. James McAvoy. Boys are socialized to bully girls on their looks so young

Yeah he meant I looked like The before and not the way Which to be fair I did What did he look like? I remember a dude who was not cute Being like yeah Hilary Duff No thank you And I was like what are you talking about?

What are you even saying? James McAvoy had flesh colored hair like he was okay yeah james shouldn't have been telling me it's so funny because you're gonna guess like a minute after this episode drops you're gonna get a facebook message from james mcavoy that's gonna be like hey i'm really sorry if i hurt you back then my favorite kind of facebook message hey like apparently uh i traumatized you so sorry about that i'm super sorry yeah please do not say anything about me publicly publicly ever again i'm married i have 19 daughters their hair is the color of their flesh sick sick sick caitlin what's your history with this movie?

Caitlin, you love it. You love it so much? Well, I didn't see it for the first time until I think like two years ago. So when you see this movie for the first time when you are 30 years old, I feel like it doesn't have a lot of the charm that people think that it has.

Really connected, really told your story. Right, yes, yes, yes. Did the soundtrack still hit for you? No. In fact, in my notes it says worst soundtrack of any movie. Wow. Wrong. Yeah, I think the movie is kind of dumb.

I realize that no one agrees with me. I guess you all saw it in 2001. Brag for you. But I have no emotional attachment to this movie and the soundtrack is bad. There is a song

where it's just like running away with my emotions or something like stupid like that. How are you supposed to know how to feel? How are you supposed

to know how to feel unless they tell you how to feel through music? i know that song plays with like a slow shot on michael and all of his various levels of hair yeah it's very like some 41 san francisco like it's like an elevator like levels one two oh my god his hair i was so obsessed that boy and also i have a theory so with the love interest michael can we talk about a little bit first of all the brother and sister's names are michael and lillian moskowitz so we do have jewish representation um i'm jewish in case anyone got tight there um just chill out but um so i was like so obsessed with the brother character and then I realized because someone I forget who and I'm so sorry but somebody said about bring it on

the movie as well that there's a bunch of movies that came out around this time where like basically she should really just be a lesbian with her friend Lillian oh for sure yeah they can't allow that in mainstream Hollywood so they write this whole brother character that like looks like her hangs around all the time and it's like acceptable to hook up with basically but the whole movie is like Lillian and her should just like end up together but instead she's like I love your brother like you know and then the brother's like obsessed with her too he's like conveniently like they always have a brother that's the same age and looks like them to like fill in for like what should what they can't do and then they really cheat lily by making her hook up with a magician i mean they really mean lily over i mean i'm like are you serious she's the best character in the

movie and she's like you know she's 15 she's the best character in the movie. And she's like, you know, she's 15. She's going to get fingered by a magician. She is like, she's that girl. Like, she is like annoyingly like anti. Because right when she gets her princess makeover, she's like, you have a fucking Gucci bag. You're fucking yuppie scum. I hate you. She's like, and she's like this super like anti-capitalist, like in an annoying way. But also like, she's not wrong.

Way ahead of her time. They're all going to a private school, though. I'm like, I feel like everyone is set for life. capitalist like in an annoying way but also like she's not wrong you know she like is right they're all going to a private school though I'm like I feel like everyone is set for life she's the rich like person who's just like and okay and okay in the UK you're like you are a billionaire speaking of them going to a private

school though so it's like a teen girl who goes to a private school that her rich grandma pays for and whose mom wants to date her teacher what is this season one of Gilmore Girls when you're out on the road feeling lonely and so

cold should we keep going we should no we should do the recap of the movie Caitlin's famous recap here we go. So we meet Mia Thermopolis. And Miria Thermopolis. And Miria

Vianney Thermopolis. The princess of Genovia. Kind of like a Greek-French fusion of food. So she lives with her mom and her cat, Fat Louie. I love Fat Louie. Fat Louie does have eight nipples.

Okay, we got some nipple stands. This has been Fat Cat Facts with Caitlin. Okay, so they're in the Bay Area. She's got her best friend, Lily. She lives in a 500 she lives in a refurbished fire that place which is like uh yeah her mom's an artist my god it has as many stories as michael's i just remember so much like remember she has that fire pole she slides down there in this huge loft and her mom's like an artist and like i remember so much just being like oh mom

why aren't you divorced like can't we just like be single and you be unhappy and like I have a cooler life, you know? OK, we live in Oklahoma. You're a lawyer. But can you just divorce dad and we move to San Francisco? Thank you. So, Mia, she's awkward. She's got bushy hair. She's got thick eyebrows. She's awkward because she's got ahy hair she's got you can tell she's awkward because

she's got a middle part she's clumsy middle part where's the retainer she's bad at public speaking the whole she almost throws up it's like disgusting and in front of brink they're in front of brink dude the guy from strike oh er, Vaughn, Denton. Oh, is it two different guys? I forgot he had like a real name. How is that not the same man? That's crazy. Who are you talking about?

Wait, that's a different guy? We're talking about DCOMs. Kaylin hates DCOMs also. He's from Brink. Brink is due for a reboot. If there's anyone here like industry or whatever, like you're welcome for free.

For free. This isn't all industries showcase. I know. Everyone here is industries. So yeah, so Mia's whole thing is that she's invisible basically and she's fine with that except that Michael does have a crush on her. He's like the male Zooey Deschanel of this movie

because she's the star so then he's like the quirky like, you know, manic pixie, whatever. He kind of is. I put M&M's on my piano. The boy who plays Michael Moskowitz is in Phantom Planet, too, the band. Yeah, Rooney.

Oh my God, someone keeps correcting me and they're always right. I hate it. Wait, this was a big era for this actor-pop band crossover because you also had Mandy Moore in the movie. There's two parts in the movie where there's no reason singing should be happening besides the fact that they're like,

Mandy Moore should sing. If we have Mandy, she should sing. It's in her contract. She's like, every movie you must write two original songs for me to sing in the soundtrack. Okay, so then Mia's grandmother, who lives in Genovia, shows up. And Mia is like, hey, who are you again? Her grandma is like, your dad was the prince of Genovia, which makes you the princess of Genovia.

And Mia's like, bye! She's not happy. And before that, she works at a rock climbing gym which I found fascinating. I remember being like, what are those? And now they're everywhere. There's so many things that you think will be subplots

or actual subplots that go nowhere in this movie. So many things are dropped in this movie. We see Mia has a job for four seconds and it is never relevant again. There's like a whole gym class subplot for no reason. Oh my god, yeah. There's the really aggressive gym teacher who's like,

now you passed. And then we're like, oh, she's growing? Oh, she's growing as a person because she hit that guy in the nuts with a baseball. That's neither here nor there. She does almost cripple Brink. I love that. Hit him in the dick, ladies.

Cheers. So then, so she's mad at her mom and her grandma for not telling her who she was. But here's the thing. The country of Genovia will cease to exist if she does not accept her role as princess yes this is crazy that part and they say it so quick

because I paused at that point then I stared at the screen for like five seconds because the way that it's delivered is Julia Andrews is talking to the mom character and she's like and the drama is like if she doesn't do this Genovia ceases to exist and the mom's like your country ceases to exist if my 15 year old doesn't become a princess and

Julie Andrews like yeah pretty much yes so like no pressure anything because like my love is unconditional but like it's a pretty big deal and where is the clause and i don't know any royal line that where that works where just all of a sudden they're like i feel like they would just have to like have an election yeah which would probably be better there's already a prime minister the the country. The colonialism is completely ignored. The big prime minister. And the prime minister sucks the teat of the regal power. Yeah, they know there's a lot of colonialism. Like, obviously

whenever the 50s referendum happened in Europe, Genovia was like, we're good. I don't even know. They like Brexited way before Brexit. Yeah, I don't even think they're part of the EU. Like, I don't know what's going on with Genovia, but they're an isolationist nation. Okay, so then there's an annual Independence Day ball

that's coming up, and that's when Mia has to decide whether or not she's going to be the princess of Genovia. Well, contractually, like, every teen movie needs to end in a dance. In a ball. A prom, a formal dance. Just like summer camp, babe.

It's got to end in a banquet. And until then, she's going to do princess lessons, basically. But her potentially being a princess has to be kept a secret until then. So then Mia meets Joe. Joe takes Mia and Lily to school. And then, like, Michael's doing the whole car repair thing. She keeps referring to a Mustang as her baby, and it's creepy. Oh, my God.

Meet my baby. And then there's this guy, Josh, who she has a crush on, but he's dating Lana. Brandy Moore. Brandy Moore. They both suck. This is actually the prequel to Saved, is what people don't know.

Yeah. Because I remember I saw Saved, and I was like, oh, so it's Princess Diaries. So she's making progress on her princess lesson. She's like, oh, this is how you sit after all? OK. OK. A lot of great Anne Hathaway pratfalls in this.

Let's not. Yeah. She's like, a princess crosses your ankles underneath. And she's like, I cannot sit. The easiest cross in the world. Caitlin's like, I'm a princess, and I can sit the easiest cross in the world I'm a princess and I can sit and struggles and we're there with her

oh it's great then we get the makeover which we'll unpack no time for it now with the dad from 10 things I hate about you yes Paolo Putinescu is the character's name the range on that in the most Jewish way possible.

The range on that man. I know, the range. He can be a bad daddy or a mean stylist. Or a mean stylist. So then like, meanwhile she's like neglecting her friendship

with Lily so then Lily's all like, why are you such a bad friend? And then she's like, it's because I'm a princess but don't tell anyone. And she's like, oh okay,

that's great. Lily was so mean to her before that though in the And then she's like, it's cause I'm a princess, but don't tell anyone. And she's like, okay, I you're, you're, that's great. Lily was so mean to her before that though. And the scene, because it's like, okay, yes.

Like, like I said, she's technically not wrong, but also like, it's just a blowout bitch. Like chill out. She flips the fuck out over a blowout. What if you're 15 and your only friend got violently hot

overnight? I would be really upset. That's true. And then Anne Hathaway, instead of being sympathetic, like, yes, I am insanely hot and that's hard for you to deal with, she's just like, well, just because your hair looks like shit, don't give

don't be mad at me. And it's like, wow. And then her brother just came in his pants the second he saw her fucking bad blowout, too. That's the thing. I was re-watching it, and I remember she had silky, smooth, straight hair. But it is not. It is like all of a sudden when they would take the like photos away it's a bad blowout look i don't think we should be judging women for how they look i don't know i'm not

judging her for how she looks i'm judging the stylist yeah yeah and no i'm judging the hollywood stylist because they were like here's four million dollars make this incredibly hot girl have straight hair and they're like can't do it sorry can't do it and then there's a scene wherever whenever she's like hey lily i'm a princess and then as she's telling her the secret they're behind a tree and then for no reason it cuts away to a guy with a leaf blower whoever that happens so much in this movie it's like a cutaway to something that's like makes no sense. Whoever edited this movie was a bad editor. They didn't want to do the writing. That's why there's so many loose ends.

Because they're like, oh, I guess we never wrote that scene where she tells her she's a princess. And they're like, just leaf blower. Just cutaway. Stock footage of a leaf blower. Fix it in post. Also, wait. So there's the neighbor character who's the Love him.

Mr. Robitussin. Okay, Mr. Robitussin. I paused it and rewound twice because she couldn't have just said, thank you, Mr. Robitussin. There's absolutely no way on earth that they named this character Mr. Robitussin. And yet, here we are. And every line out of his mouth is the funniest thing I've ever read.

He's great. He's funny, but he also sits outside in a robe talking to teenagers. That's funny because when we were watching it last night, Caitlin was like, so me. I was like, really? I was like, that's who you... I really related to him.

All right, we have to get through the rest of this recap really fast. Okay, so then the word gets out that she's a princess because Paolo Puttanesca leaked it. And now she has all this attention. So now the Josh boy who she likes asks her out to the beach party. And then she's like, yeah, I'll go. Even though she's already committed to going to michael's watch michael's band practice yeah in a garage and he's like why don't you like my baby and like lily's pre-web series web series yeah there was a web

series yeah so she ditches both of them and then she realizes that josh is a bad guy after all and then Lana and all her friends. After a very wicky feet scene with the two of them where he's like, do you want to rub my foot? She's like, do you want to rub my foot? He's like, no, rub my foot. Ew, selfish love. Wow, I love it. The whole scene's fucked up where she gets naked and then Lana, Mandy Moore's character,

pulls the tent out for the tabloids to see her. I'm like, that is assault. It's fucked up. And then afterwards like she goes to like her grandma and her grandma's like well why are you such a slut and like she's like yeah grandma and that's when you find out how like tight her and Joe are because then Joe is like

I really don't think you should have called your granddaughter a slut and she's like I'm the queen but luckily we are fucking, so I'll let you say that. She listens to him. Yeah, meanwhile, like, she's getting better at being a princess.

She and her grandma are, like, bonding. And then it's, like, down to the wire where she has to decide, am I going to be a princess? And then after, like, all the bad press from Beach Night, she's like, I can't do it. Mandy Moore.

The world's full of Mandy Moores. She's 15. She's just been shown naked on, you know, what was the TMZ at the time? Tiger Beat? Something. But yeah, she's like, I can't do all this. But then she reads a letter from her daddy. Yeah, which is like, is that necessary?

And she's like, oh, I guess I should be a princess. This man who bailed on me at birth. Yeah, exactly. And her not doing it, that's the normal right thing. Where she's like, I don't know. I feel like now that I'm 15 and people are sort of sexually chasing me in the public eye, I should not do this. And then everybody's like, have you no morals?

And then she talks to her grandma right after the letter from the dad and her grandma's like your father abandoning you was the hardest decision he ever made you selfish cunt and she's like do you want to know why your dad did it for his country and

because of his duty to his country and then it's like it was the money it was the money. It was the money. And then Anne Hathaway responds not by saying, that doesn't sound right. She says to Julie Andrews, do you want a corn dog? Yes.

Julie Andrews says, yes. And that's the scene. I guess, sure. Oh. Because people in Genovese are just British. Where's the footage of Julie Andrews deep threading that corn dog? Where is it at? Okay, so now we're at the ball at the end.

And Hathaway shows up and she's like, I will be princess after all. And everyone's like, cool. Very last minute because she gets caught in the rain because her car sucks. Her car sucks. Super pays off. She's like, I mean, that was, I guess, the whole point of the car plot. You're right.

I just kind of put that together where they're like, OK, so we're going to do this whole thing where she's like, obsessed with this car that keeps breaking down. And then at the end, it will break down. And someone's like, perfect. But there's also a super expensive looking trolley accident that scared me from getting

a driver's license until literally right now I still don't have one. It's so scary. Movies have effect. Movies. Yeah. And she's like 15. Remember they even have her break the law. She drives on her own and she's like is this cause I'm not driving with a

licensed driver and at the time I was like 12 being like yeah bad morals this movie yeah they're like give up your life because the mom is like I didn't want to tell you you were a princess because like these institutions are patriarchal like she doesn't say that but she's

basically like I would be totally controlled by your father and I didn't want that. And I remember when I was 12 being like, what a selfish bitch. Yeah. Yeah. OK, so that's pretty much the story. She's like, yeah, I'm a princess now.

And then she leaves her family. She does barf during her speech. Yeah. She drops out of high school and leaves. For real. I didn't see the sequel. No, that's what happens at the end. She's like, because that's the whole deal the whole time.

She's like, because remember when she first meets Julie Andrews' character, she's like, okay, so like, blah, blah, blah. Long story short, you're a princess. You have to move to Genovia. And she's like, what? And also, like, she says, like, I'll have tutors, but it's like, you're going to have a GED. You're going to be.

Hailey Joel Osment has a GED. Like, not a real you're gonna be Lindsay Lohan and Mykonos like you are not off for a good path yeah just tell a 15 year old like your life is set we are obviously rich I will drive you to

school in a limo you can bring your cat but not your mother you can bring your cat absolutely but your mom is like kind of a freak so the answer is no no sluts in genovia and i just remember too like their place like their loft you're like does the mom pay that on her artist on her balloon art i don't know although the balloon scene another scene that kaylin correctly argues does not need to be there however i there's another great scene and then where i wanted to do that with i want i was like

man having a fun mom seems great but it's also implying that fun moms are rich and that bad artists are rich and which is neither is true. Right. I can afford San Francisco. That's like a billion square foot apartment. I mean, that is a million dollar apartment. Like, that's crazy. With a fire pole.

Mia keeps hiding. Her bedroom has two levels. I was like, Mia keeps hiding in her various rooms. Oh my god, yeah. Different bedrooms. From her privilege, which is wild. And on that note, I think we should maybe take a bit of a break.

I tend to agree. Alright. Alright. Daphne Caruana Galizia was a Maltese investigative journalist who on October 16th 2017 was murdered. There are crooks everywhere you look now. The situation is desperate. My name is Manuel Delia. I am one of the hosts of Crooks Everywhere,

a podcast that unhurts the plot to murder a one-woman Wikileaks. Daphne exposed the culture of crime and corruption that were turning her beloved country into a mafia state. And she paid the ultimate price. Listen to Crooks everywhere on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm Gianna Pradente. And I'm Jemay Jackson-Gadsden. We're the hosts of Let's Talk Offline, a new podcast from LinkedIn News and iHeart Podcasts. When you're just starting out in your career, you have a lot of questions. Like, how do I speak up when I'm feeling overwhelmed?

Or, can I negotiate a higher salary if this is my first real job? Girl, yes. Each week, we answer your unfiltered work questions. Think of us as your work besties you can turn to for advice. And if we don't know the answer, we bring in experts who do, like resume specialist Morgan Saner.

The only difference between the person who doesn't get the job and the person who gets the job is usually who applies. Yeah, I think a lot about that quote. What is it like you miss 100% of the shots you never take? Yeah, rejection is scary, but it's better than you rejecting yourself. Together, we'll share what it really takes to thrive in the early years of your career without sacrificing your sanity or sleep. Listen to Let's Talk Offline on the iHeartRadio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, everybody. This is Matt Rogers. And Bowen Yang. We've got some exciting news for you. You know we're always bringing you the best guests, right? Well, this week we're taking it to the next level. The one, the only, Katherine Hahn is joining us on Lost Culture East.

That's right. The queen of comedy herself. Get ready for a conversation that's as hilarious as it is insightful. Tune in for all the laughs, the stories, and of course, the culture. I feel some Sandra Bernhardt in you. Oh, my God. I would love it. I have to watch Lost.

Oh, you have to. No, I know. I'm so behind. Katherine Hahn can sing. Oh, you have to. No, I know. I'm so behind. Katherine Hahn can sing. Oh, I'm really good at karaoke. What's your song? Yeah, what's your song? Oh, I love a ballad.

I felt Bjork's music. I just was like, who is this person? I got to hawk this slalom, Luge. Not hawk the slalom. I absolutely love it. It was somehow Shakespearean when you said it. It was somehow gorgeous. Yee, my slok, you hollum. Listen to Las Culturistas on Will Ferrell's

Big Money Players Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. So where do we want to jump in with the discussion i mean i don't know well okay so this movie has a ton of women in it sandra o's in this movie this movie there's so much the principal sandra yeah very she's yes oh my god and mia puts an ice cream cone on mandy moore's like cheerleader uniform i'm sorry sorry, I'd like to make note that someone noticed I was

running low. Thank you. Jamie got a fresh drink for the listeners at home because in New York you don't have to drive. And I don't drive even in LA because of this movie. Good for you because of this movie that traumatized you with that accident.

They kind of make it seem like being hit by a trolley is like nbd like she like she talks to the cop and she's like it's totally no problem if you give me a ticket but i'm about to knight you and he's like i guess i won't give you a ticket a cool hack for all of us really i think that's what i should do yeah because no one's ever heard of Genovia in San Francisco, but so you can just be like, Hey, I'm actually a queen and you're,

you're awesome. And then you can just get out of whatever. And if the cop is like, I know that's from the movie princess diaries. I'd be like, Oh my God, that's embarrassing for you. But also do you want to date me?

There are a lot of women. There are a lot of women. There's some ton of women. No father figures, really. Well, no dead. A strong dead father figure. They talk about him all the time. They're obsessed with, wait, I wrote down his full name. Philippe Rinaldi.

They do like a French accent in some, a Greek accent in part of the name. It's worth mentioning in the books he's alive uh if you read the books the father is alive and the grandma is way meaner what but yeah they they make kind of a reverse disney move in the case of this movie and kill the dad because that's not what happens in the book and the grandfather and they killed it okay so this is something that hit for me the i've seen this movie honestly probably 100 times and the first and they killed it okay so this is something that hit for me the i've seen this movie honestly probably a hundred times and the first time i noticed they mentioned how recently both the father and the grandfather have passed away and kind of are like but it's not a

big deal yeah oh my god and they don't really say how he died but there's one part in the movie where they like grandma just, and that terrible accident. But she's not grieving at all. She's like, yeah, my closest family members recently died. Yeah. And I feel great. I know. My son and my husband, like, they say that her husband died less than a year ago.

Wait, really? And she's already with the driver? Like, they were fucking before. That joe chill out there when he imagined like your husband of a thousand years died like six months ago and then all of a sudden your bodyguard is like corners you it's like you've been wearing black for too long oh my god i forgot about that that actually makes sense to me because like if you've been married for a long time and like you're like royalty, like you're not fucking. And like, you know, like he was always I feel like they were already fucking. But if they weren't.

That's true. We don't know. If they weren't, then he was just like, finally, like your husband who you're not fucking is dead. So can we just get on with this? And then her son dies and he's like, well, this is a road bump. You know, I mean, like everyone deals with grief differently. get on with this. And then her son dies and he's like, well, this is a road bump, you know? I mean, like everyone deals with grief differently,

but Julie Andrews deals with losing arguably probably the two biggest people in her life by calling her granddaughter ugly. Yes. That's mostly how she deals. Calling her granddaughter ugly, slut shaming her for going to the beach. Right. And almost giving Brink a foot massage. Yes. Brink, you sick fuck.

Can we talk about the makeover scene? Yes, let's do it. We got it. So this, like many movies, there's a woman who's not conventionally attractive enough, even though she's played by an actress who is conventionally attractive. And they're like,

we got to make you hot for reasons. And then the makeover happens and in this movie I feel like there's a slight subversion because then her friend Lily is like you're destroyed someone fucked you up

Lily's the best character Lily's supposed to be the bad guy in that scene she's supposed to be because then like brother is like, no, you're hot. And Lily's like, you're only here because we can't fuck. Yeah. She should have said that to him in that scene. And then we're supposed to be mad at Lily because then Mia wears a hideous felt hat to school. Horrible.

The one thing that actually made Anne Hathaway look kind of ugly in the whole movie. Was that gray felt hat, which she continues to wear throughout the movie as if it's just a hat. But then like the guy, her speech teacher who her mom is fucking, which is also from the book, but has no bearing on the movie. They throw it in just to be like

by the way we're fucking, but we didn't write it in. It's a very sex positive movie. I think well but i also think this movie goes out of its way to make sure you know any woman who's single at any point in this movie is a heterosexual woman like it goes out of its way to tell you because otherwise why say that the mom's having sex with anyone every scene the mom is talking about who she's fucking who she fucked in the 70s, her dad. Because I was looking for like just the Bechdel aspect.

And then it's like every time the mom walks in, she's like, so. Your mom is getting it in. She's like, mom, my teacher, mom, my dad in the 70s, mom, a in the 70s and her mom's like she's like let's pop some balloons with darts yeah let's do balloons pop some molly what are you 15 so in that scene so lily's all like oh you used to care more about like what was in your head than what was on it and like you can kind of get behind what she's saying but also she is judging a woman for how she looks and it's just a blowout i mean seriously you still care i mean like i've gotten my hair straightened four times in my life it took seven hours and every time i do it like some of my closest friends will just walk right past they

don't even recognize me as a curly hair person who's not trying to straighten their hair every day it's like just let her have a day of silky smoothness you know i did it in high school i do it for two hours every morning in high school and straighten my hair and still people from high school are like oh you used to why don't you do that anymore and like james mcavoy james mcavoy you villain dude what are you doing yeah also it's like that's the untouched colonial aspect it's like genovia obviously has some race issues they need to deal with there is like in their like little gathering they have like the dinner that she like accidentally like knocked over the table they have like this like asian woman playing the loo and there's like all this stuff where you're like okay you're clearly like very into this 1800s like

british colonial look and then they straighten her hair that's fucked up because i remember being like i'll only be beautiful until i have straight hair and then i got older and people were like oh i want curly hair and i'm like well which is it people curly hair. And I'm like, well, which is it, people? Yeah. There's also some weird, like, queer phobia moment whenever Joe is like, here are your pumps that I bought. And whenever I bought them, the guy was like, do you want these wrapped or do you want to wear them? And he's like, San Francisco is such a weird place.

Yeah. There's a lot of negging of San Francisco. As like a gay place. Right. Right, right. Which is so dumb, because I'm like, this movie clearly went way out of its way to take place in San Francisco. It would have been way easier to have it literally anywhere else. It's so Hollywood of that time. It shows you how like nothing's changed about like the bros who are in charge.

Because you know, there's just like 20 like, oh, oh, like dudes in charge. And they're like, yeah, let's make a movie in San Francisco. But let's like acknowledge like how like fucking gay it is. That's like good for you, dude. Yeah. I feel like it's because that like driving scene, the various driving scenes and accidents needed to happen. And I wanted to talk about that. Roast them. Okay. So she's not good at driving maybe it's because she doesn't have

a license yet but she's 15 you know there's a bunch of movies where we see women being bad at driving it's a trope it's also just a stereotype in the world the moment where like a woman like panics and she's like i don't know how to hold a steering wheel and then she like crashes or like something happens like that i've seen that all the time yeah right exactly so and then there's like obviously way fewer movies where men are bad at driving in fact there's many movies where the whole plot of the franchise is built around how good they are. Fast and the Furious. Baby Driver. Drive. There's a lot of them.

But anyway, scenes like this just perpetuate the idea that women are bad at driving. Yeah, all the male movies about driving, that's supposed to be seen as a positive thing. My high school experience was getting in a car with some psycho who's like, I don't know how to drive, but I'm going to go 100. You know what? At least I'm fucking going 25 as I hit the curve like whatever my whole high school driving

experience was boys turning onto high street and being like high street dude get it do you get it my dude I feel like that's an extension of like cars are a masculine thing

and. But they want to fuck cars but cars are seen as objects equivalent to women because like they're like every car commercial is just like stick your dick in the gas tank. Stick your dick in the gas tank and then other women will know that you're

fucking. Like that's just like every car commercial and then movies that like have a woman who's like good at fixing cars is a way to show like she's not like the other girls but they show they show a girl like in a tank top with her boobs out in a leather jacket fixing a car and then they have to show her with a man immediately to be like she's not gay like she's not gay don't worry people are not gay people are not gay and especially not the hot woman that you want

and I feel like the man is there also to like affirm she's doing it correctly like he's also there to be like whoa she did do the thing to the thing I'm a bad example of I I don't know anything about Carson. And the only speaking person of color role in this whole movie for Princess Diaries is the mechanic. There's one cheerleader who's like, but her only role is speaking in sync with Mandy Moore and the other thing where they're like,

like bring it, like where they have it. Fontana. Fontana. I'm missing you. Anna, Anna. Did you sing Candy? Fontana. Yeah, and then they have the mechanic guy whose only line is,

he's like, you sweet on her? Oh, yeah. And that's the only line they give him, and you're like, yeah. There's also a cop who's a person of color. Yes. Oh, right. Tertiary character. Yeah.

And he's like, well, I don't have to give you a ticket and it's like unbelievable the whole movie is about where it's just the grandma being like if you are the right kind of woman you may achieve your power I don't know why she's Julia Childs

but she's like she's like you'll come into your power if you can wave and be female and night male officers when they feel threatened well also with the mechanic character his whole thing like he's one of three i think people of color who speak at all in the movie and also his character is so weird where he's like yeah let these teenage boys rehearse and work for me for no money yeah yeah this whole thing i was like that is what who is he's like very invested in the there's always like these high school movies when you look back there's like these older people who are like very invested in the sexual lives of teens and it's just like arrest them that's crazy like mr robitussin like that's crazy like mr. Robitussin like that's insane mr. Robitussin was for sure nude under his

robe every time and he's just muttering under his breath just being like the queen walks to the car he won an Emmy though yeah he's like I can't believe I won an Emmy it's like who are you talking to that's yeah what did you win an Emmy for? That's so sad. Well, speaking of these sexual lives of teens. Please, let's talk. That was a horrible transition. It's good, it's good.

But there is a surprise kiss in this movie. Whenever Josh, he's like, oh, there's cameras, there's helicopters, let me exploit this moment. At least it is, unlike most movies, it is shown as being wrong. Yes, and she reacts appropriately by being like, unlike most movies, it is shown as being wrong. Yes. And she reacts appropriately by being like, ew, I didn't want you to kiss me. I think she smacks him with her sandal or something.

Yeah. It is a foot freak scene. Yeah. And then later he gets hit in the dick with a softball. Yes. So let that be a lesson to you. All you Brink men out there. Any man who's liked the movie Brink is problematic.

Any woman who likes the movie Brink, you're cool. You're cool. Right. So basically, if there is a surprise kiss in a movie, there's a right way to handle it and a wrong way. But this movie, I think, did it the right way. It did, yeah. We've seen progress since the 80s.

Something I liked about this movie and would like to tip my hideous felt hat to is uh a tip of the ugly gray felt hat that your teacher makes you take off to reveal you're the hottest woman at school school uh what i'd like to tip that thing to is that it is rare to see multiple generations of women in a movie at all and especially three generations of women interacting with each i mean and it's like a lot of the time they're calling anne hathaway ugly a lot of the times they're not disclosing the details of this accident. But this movie does pass the loftiest test because baldest woman in charge, Julie Andrews. Julie Andrews. She's in charge.

And just seeing a woman over 60 in a prominent role. Because normally they kill off the middle generation. Normally they'll be like, grandma's there, mom's dead. Right. But grandma's going gonna bond with the daughter and all three of them have very different views of what the choice should be and and it's to this movie's credit we do see these women interacting a lot and we see that they have different opinions and sometimes their opinions are weird and stupid but you know that's what

people are like and so i thought that that was a generally positive thing because you don't usually see three female characters at all much less uh ones that are related to each other a better version of this of course is three women at all i can't believe we're on this stage right now it's crazy i've never seen more than two women at one time ever uh but yeah no jamie you're totally right and then there's many other female characters most of the people that mia interacts with are are women um there's like the joe exception there's the the joe the the michael who's basically i agree with marcia an extension of lily right yeah she's just supposed to hook up with Lily, but you can't

have that in mainstream Hollywood. There were echoes of Daria in this movie for me where Daria and Jane are a very similar friendship for any Daria heads out there where we're just like kiss, but she doesn't. Oh yeah, Daria and Jane.

That's Jane's brother's same thing. They create Jane's brother because Daria and Jane can't hook up. And they have Six Sad World, which is basically shut up and listen. So it's like kind of the same thing. You're welcome. Daphne Caruana Galizia was a Maltese investigative journalist who on October 16th 2017 was murdered. There are crooks everywhere you look now. The situation is desperate.

My name is Manuel Delia. I am one of the hosts of Crooks Everywhere, a podcast that unhearts the plot to murder a one-woman Wikileaks. Daphne exposed the culture of crime and corruption that were turning her beloved country into a mafia state. And she paid the ultimate price. Listen to Crooks everywhere on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm Gianna Prudente. And I'm Jemay Jackson-Gadsden. We're the hosts of Let's Talk Offline, a new podcast from LinkedIn News and iHeart Podcasts.

When you're just starting out in your career, you have a lot of questions like, how do I speak up when I'm feeling overwhelmed? Or, can I negotiate a higher salary if this is my first real job? Girl, yes. Each week, we answer your unfiltered work questions. Think of us as your work besties you can turn to for advice. And if we don't know the answer, we bring in experts who do. Like resume specialist Morgan Saner.

The only difference between the person who doesn't get the job and the person who gets the job is usually who applies. Yeah, I think a lot about that quote. What is it? Like you miss 100% of the shots you never take? Yeah, rejection is scary, but it's better than you rejecting yourself. Together, we'll share what it really takes to thrive in the early years of your career without sacrificing your sanity or sleep. Listen to Let's Talk Offline on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, everybody, this is Matt Rogers. And Bowen Yang.

We've got some exciting news for you. You know we're always bringing you the best guests, right? Well, this week, we're taking it to the next level. The one, the only, Katherine Hahn is joining us on Lost Culture East. That's right, the queen of comedy herself. Get ready for a conversation that's as hilarious as it is insightful. Tune in for all the laughs, the stories, and of course, the culture. I feel some Sandra Bernhard in you.

Oh, my God, I would love it. I have to watch Lost. Oh, you have to. No, I know, I would love it. I have to watch Lost. Oh, you have to. No, I know. I'm so behind. Katherine Hanken's thing. Oh, I'm really good at karaoke. What's your song?

Yeah, what's your song? Oh, I love a ballad. I felt Bjork's music. I just was like, who is this person? I got to hawk this slalom, Lugie. Not hawk the slalom. I absolutely love it. It was somehow Shakespearean when you said it. It was somehow gorgeous.

Yee, my slok, you hollum. Listen to Las Culturistas on Will Ferrell's Big Money Players Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. So this is effectively a Disney princess movie. It's live action, but it's a Disney movie and it's a princess movie.

I didn't realize that. It's literally called The Princess Diary. I know. These are the things that hit me so late in life where I'm like, I can't believe I ever thought I was smart for one second. Oh, it's a princess narrative. But there's a line toward the end that the grandmother says, people think princesses are supposed to wear tiaras, marry the prince,

always look pretty, and live happily ever after. But it's so much more than that. It's a real job. And it's like, well, maybe people think that about princesses because your company disney perpetuated that very idea and also all of cinema and also in the movie her princess training is only based on the things she just described yes she's not taught like how to run a country no not at all she's not taking civics lessons she's not like taking no this isn't the crown there's no pressure on her to know how to speak in public none yeah that's

the whole thing at the beginning she's like i can't talk in public they're like we'll just make you hot it doesn't matter yeah she's she mentioned you're like you'll learn languages and like study policy but we don't see that we only see her getting hot and then maintaining her hotness also am i supposed to believe she's at the end like going on a plane to genovia with fat louis the cat just being like super happy like i made my decision like i had to leave my boyfriend when i was 15 for like three weeks and i was bawling i was like i mean am I supposed to believe that she's just like yeah like whatever happens happens there's

no way and also the thing that kind of swings the final thing that swings her decision is a letter from her dad who abandoned her at birth and that's the thing that changes her mind it's like you have at least three women in your life who you

see right now every day who have more perspective into who you are she doesn't care and then it's like a handwritten letter from her flashback dad who's lounging in a field of daisies for no fucking reason being like dear woman I abandoned

hope you're hot like that's the weird thing about lily though too because there's this one scene where the writers clearly gave up because like she's just like yeah so like you know and my dad who just died like a year ago or whatever and lily literally goes i thought you were over that no it was two months she goes it's been two months I kind of thought you were getting over that and she's like well yeah but I'm still like pretty sad about it and she's like

but like he wasn't even there for you and like also you're hot now so shut the fuck up is she hot by then wasn't that right after oh it was before so even before she's just like get over yourself like lily's not a good friend i'm sorry there is a moment that i enjoyed later

on where lily's like hey actually you being a princess is cool because you can like affect change hook me up with shit yeah oh right but again yeah she has a fabergé egg already like and she didn't know her dad was a prince. Okay. I forgot that's the end. She's like, I've decided to do this because I'll be able to do good in the world. It's like, yeah, fucking right. That's what the movie should have been about then.

Like, I feel like it should have been Mia feeling strongly about a cause. Yeah, she had no cause. And then having, once she's a princess, she's like's like yes I can use this platform to like her cause was my hair is curly right and they're like your hair is straight now and she's like my cause is gone the Meg Cabot books I have not read

them in many years I will never read them again sorry but they're very different in that like there is a sequel to this movie that still has Anne Hathaway and Julie Andrews I haven't seen it in many years I know the promise of it is Anne Hathaway has to get married in 48 hours or Genovia ceases to exist oh my god Genovia's constitution did not think ahead at all the the book series is very different where I wouldn't I would argue that there's a lot of the same core problems.

But the rest of the book series sort of goes on like Mia has to go to Genovia during school vacations, but she continues to go to school. And so it's more like she's more of a normal person like juggling. It's more Hannah Montana. Going to Europe every weekend. Yeah. I'm sure that makes her relatable to her teen peers. That's the girl I would want to be friends with. She's like, I go to Europe every weekend.

You can't come. Bye. But they totally, like, there's at least some of the basics of this first movie are based in the source material. And then they just totally jump the shark. And they're like, well, if Anna Hathaway doesn't get married, there's going to be a genocide. Like, it's just crazy. Everybody in Genovia dies.

It's horrible. We blow up the whole goddamn country. We're going to nuke it if something happens. Genovia becomes Greece, France or whatever it's supposed to be. We must deflower Virgin Anne or the nuke drops. It's just terrifying. Oh, my God. It's so true.

Yeah. She's like 15 and they're like are you ready to be a princess do you even want to fuck she's like i don't know i'm just a nerd uh one last thing i wanted to talk about is the part where the paparazzi takes all the photos of her getting surprise kissed by josh and then changing out of her swimsuit and then the press is like wow what a party animal this new princess is and oh my gosh wait

my favorite line it's a really lazy line by like one of the newscasters in this world where she's like we're a night of fun turned into too much fun it's like great journal. Shut up.

Great job. But I feel like it's a commentary on how like the press often villainizes young women. Yes. Even the grandma. Even the grandma is like you little saucy minx. She basically slut shames her own granddaughter.

I feel like that scene traumatized me. Because there's all these pseudo-sexual assaults that happen in these PG movies. Where it's like, hey, go ahead and get naked in a place that you think is private. But someone might think this. I guess I should prepare for that. But maybe you should. Like, fuck. And so now I live my life as a never nude.

You've got cutoffs under there. Positive. Someone is filming me at all times. I think that's a healthy balance. On the other hand, I would argue that her mom is very sex positive because whenever she's like, I think I'm going to have my first kiss tonight. She's like,

you go girl, go kiss kiss even though that boy sucks and I know he sucks like her mom's like a bully though she's like I want a romantic kiss or my leg goes up and her mom's like pfft loser her mom's like oh you want your leg to go up during your kiss

and then like every scene is her mom just being like, I get fucked a lot. So good luck to you. Does anyone have any other final thoughts about the movie? Okay. So I will never not love this movie. However, this is, like, one of those movies, like many princess movies

but i think this one more so than any other movie i grew up with is it is a movie that gives you like an avatar character to plug yourself into when you're a young girl and so that makes like what happens in the movie 10 times as important because most any girl who is young thinks they look like shit and that is how like i feel like there's no like young woman here who didn't see ann hathaway at the beginning of that movie and be like yup and and again if you didn't and you're still hot you're not relatable or cool as a person congrats to email us we'd love to hear your experience yeah as a hot person but but like when there are movies where there's clear characters that are written and designed for young people to like plug themselves into you have to be so careful with how you manage

that character often the issue with these characters is they are boring example harry potter uh where you're like everyone's gonna be like i'm harry but Harry Potter's like I don't do anything and I have money mystery money but I'm like an underdog fuck Harry Potter anyways I just listened to you guys' Harry Potter episode so funny that you brought that up it's I hate Harry Potter

hilarious I love Harry Potter cause I have good taste I hate Harry Potter Jamie like starts off the podcast being like I hate Harry Potter because I have good taste. I hate Harry Potter. Jamie starts off the podcast by being like, I hate Harry Potter. And then your guest, Maggie Mae, I think, was like, I remember waiting in line at midnight to get the new Harry Potter books.

And Jamie's like, yes, yes, yes. I was like, I was there too, but I also hated it. I hated it. All I have to say, clear Avatar characters who go from not hot to hot who go we all were Hermione

right exactly and in the movie too they straighten Hermione's hair and all of a sudden she's hot that was always like you have curly hair

but you're thin and then they straighten your hair take off the glasses and they're like boom down yeah and so that's like a downside of this movie

is it like the takeaway is like many movies being hot will solve most of your problems right and once you get hot you're probably actually rich as well which is amazing you never see a makeover where they're still poor afterwards that's true that would be an important uh again industry industry free idea. You're welcome. I'm going to make that and they're going to be like, we've done it. When I straightened my hair for the first time, I was like, yeah, you still suck. I know.

I did. Movies did teach me that like once I got my hair straightened professionally for my bat mitzvah and I was like, my life is about to change. And then like everybody was like, no, we still think Heather's the hot one I'm like unbelievable why is Heather always on Heather's always hot there's television shows but yeah you're right movies like that have to be very careful with how they handle it and I would argue that this movie does not handle it very well. No. They say Bushman eyebrows. They're like, hello Frida Kahlo. Like, no sensitivity

whatsoever. Frida, a movie that Alfred Molina is in. Thank you. Wow. That's very true. Also, we have a listener in the front row with a feminist icon, Alfred Molina. Hell yeah. What's your name?

Shout out to Zoe. Yes. Shout out to every shot. Also, speaking of bodyguards who fuck, Whitney Houston

produced this movie. Whitney what? Yeah. She did, and literally, I was like, it's not that Whitney Houston, and it is that Whitney Houston. it's not that Whitney Houston and it is that Whitney Houston

it's always that Whitney Houston so worth noting this movie has many female producers directed by Gary Marshall but written by a woman and based on a novel written by a woman yeah so

a lot of women read her adult novels as well i haven't read them since i was an adult novels like is she good is she like genuinely uh clap if you've read meg cabot i've heard of meg does she does she hold up okay i've heard i mean i like really enjoyed her but i read her through high school and i haven't read her since. But I would argue the source material for this series is much better than any of the movie adaptations. Always. They're always like, let's dumb it down, sex it up. And in the books, it's literally, it's called The Princess Diaries because it's written first person from Mia. It's her diary.

That's what I wondered too, because when I was rewatching, I was like, why is this the diaries? Like there's no, at least in Bridget Jones's diary, they make a loose attempt to be like September 21st. Well, in the movie, they changed the diary to be a diary she's given that her father wrote in.

And that's the princess diary. Oh, that's what it is at the end? Okay, but he's not as close as he gets to. Then it should be called the princess diary that he gave to his daughter. The princess diary

about his daughter he said to his daughter. The Prince's Diary about his daughter he said to fuck off. The Prince's Diary that he bequeathed upon his death. That's a good name. That's a good title for a movie, objectively. Hey, does this movie

pass the Bechdel test? Yes, it does. We've been teasing it for an hour. Yes, it does pass the Bechdel test because there's a lot of conversations with two women that are like over one line that are about country. But mostly about the dead dad who is a man and also about looks, which is like that's an interesting thing because there are so many like chick flick movies where it's like, I guess technically they're like speaking not about a man. But they're speaking about making yourself

appeal to the male gaze right who had it on their who had it on their bingo card mark it down male gaze got one in that's something we come up against a lot where and there's versions

of media tests that say that women can't be talking about domestic stuff but based on this movie and like based on two years of doing this podcast now like i think the thing that i would jump to first is making a media test like it can't pass the bechdel test if women are insulting each other based on their looks because it passes the Bechdel test in this movie our version of it and technically whatever the canonical version of it so many times when women are telling each other they look like

absolute shit and it's like frustrating and it's not even in like the way that it is with like me and my friends it's like you look like shit girl you know like where it's like a compliment right it's like cause you're working so hard well so many of the passes that we've had are either they're talking

about food or making food they're talking about clothes they're talking about some other like hair makeup thing or it's like you should kill yourself she's all that I'm gonna kill you Miss Congeniality or a star is born a high M. Gale Star is Born, Hi, I'm Gail.

This is the way to the stage. Feminist icon. I'm Gail. Give me something more. Well, let's write the princess diaries on our nipple scale if you're not familiar if you're not familiar we rate the movie based on its portrayal and representation of women based on a scale of zero to five nipples uh i'm gonna give this i'm sorry what's a nipple what is a nipple yeah does anyone in the audience have an opinion can anyone describe it no do you want to show do you want to show are you doing like a show us your tits to the audience

right now show us your tits high brow to show first um i'm sorry does'm not quite familiar does anyone have a nipple on hand I think I'm gonna oh we see one thank you so much that could go on Instagram yeah I think I'm gonna give this a two two nipples

oh my god someone's like look everyone in their everyone in their head have their nipple because we don't listen to us you know right we're stupid yeah we don't know what we're talking about on your head but i'm gonna give it a two because even though the movie there's female relationships and female friendships which is great i do like a lot of the characters especially lily and fat louis and mr robitussin two of those are but lily is cool so i do appreciate like the female relationship aspect of the movie but because almost the entire movie is framed around she's got to be a very specific standard of beauty

to even be considered to be able to do this whole princess role the movie spends no time being like hey you should maybe learn about you know policy or like anything like that right about the country yeah it's about the country itself yeah it's all about uh and a lot i feel just like a lot of things kind of happen to her and they don't even show it on a map they don't want to even give us like a loose like it's here so yeah i think like there were opportunities for this movie to be about something more important and it simply was not so uh i am gonna do two nipples and uh they both go to fat louis obviously i'm gonna give this... I guess I'm going to go two and a half. I love this movie, dear.

Oh my God, I was going to go three. Can everyone relax? With someone like... I'll go three. I remember when I was like, I don't succumb to peer pressure. I want everyone to think I'm cool. I am going to give this,

I'm going to give it three nibbles. And there are, there are a lot of issues with this movie, which we have spent time discussing. There is obviously a lack of diversity. We only see one woman of color in the entire movie. And she's basically one character combined with another another white girl.

Because they only speak in unison. Oh, Sandra Oh, though. They only speak in unison. Oh, Sandra Oh is also a woman of color character. Let's have a round of applause for Sandra Oh. Yeah. She has a principal role. And she has multiple exchanges in the movie that passed the Bechdel test.

Because she is a woman in charge. She's the principal of the school and she is either listening to or dismissing her students. Depending on who it is. That's the thing. She's kind of like, you know, kind of like a bitch. And then like whenever she finds out that like me as a princess,

she's like, Oh Mia, I'll do anything for you. Yeah. Which kind of speaks to like what I do like about this movie is not just you see many generations of women in prominent roles. You see a lot of different personality types from women. And I think that that is a rarity in movies, especially movies marketed to young girls specifically, is I think like a common, like, fumble is like all women have to like each other if you don't like every single woman you are bad and you see and there's maybe there's so many different kinds

of women you know you you see mia you see julie andrews who has been raised by the patriarchy and is uh has issues uh you you see. You see Mandy Moore, who genuinely is a despicable person and deserved to get coned. Lana got coned! What a stupid way to say that. Lana got coned! Lana got coned!

You see Lily, who is like a very socially active kind of woman. You see like a lot of different kinds of women with no specific cause, which we respect. She's at some point, she's like seals, tofu, cows. There's a lot of different. She wears buttons on her jean vest. I think that's an accurate representation of a high school activist.

Oh, totally. They're like all in justice, basically. She's like eating French fries like, I'm a vegetarian. Yeah, it's like you see a lot of different types of women and you see them interacting with each other and having differences of opinion and seeing them resolving issues and that's not something in spite of all the issues we have talked about i think that that was definitely something that resonated with me and people love this movie and and i still really like this movie so three nips from me giving one to mia and giving one to lily and i'm giving uh one to sandra oh i

think that's my choice yeah yeah marshall what do you say you know what honestly i'm gonna give it three nipples just like marky mark three n Three nips, just like Mark Wahlberg. Because, yeah, this is the thing. Upon rewatch, because at the time, all these movies that I watched, I was just like, great message, love it. I hate myself, but love the movie. Like, rewatching all these. Like, there's this one movie, I think it was called,

no, it's not Head Over Heels, because that's the Mel Gibson one movie i think it was called no it's not head over heels because that's the mel gibson one but there's some movie where it's like freddie prince jr and he's dating a girl who lives with all models and she's like she's like the regular looking one and i remember being like if that's regular looking kill me and that's what this movie is because i remember at the time being like okay Anne Hathaway before like alright one of the more convincing and we condemn movie

makeovers however this is the only effective movie makeover where you genuinely see a marked difference between one and two where like when we did Miss Congeniality it's like it was Sandra Bullock the whole time it was Sandra Bullock. The whole time. It was Sandra Bullock.

The whole. That's the thing. With all these movies. It's always like. She's all that. You're like. Okay. It was her.

Yeah. She was Josie. All along. She was. But. Okay. So three nipples. One. Two.

Mia. Amelia. Therma. Pales. Rinaldi. Gervel. Whatever her name is. And. I want to give

one to the mom who just like refuses to be slut shamed and I respect that so much about her because every scene is her being like I fucked your teacher and Mia being like what and her being like in the 70s I fucked someone that looked like your teacher so one for the mom one for Mia and one is sort And her being like, in the 70s, I fucked someone that looked like your teacher.

So one for the mom, one for Mia. And one is sort of a conglomerate of what should have been one character with the Lilly brother. And that's, oh, and I feel bad missing Julie Andrews. So I'm going to change mine to 3.5 nipples to give sort of a higher score than you guys. We can get like the Olympic judging like median grade out of three. For Julie Andrews because God bless her. She deserves an Oscar for this role. Don't argue with me. She does. She at least deserved a Golden Globe. I don't know if she got one.

Everyone says no. I mean because I think that Oscars should be decided not based on if the movie is good but based on what people did with the source material because there was not a lot you could do with this movie and she stayed committed the entire time she was like no i am a genovian queen and at like 12 years old i remember being like genovia is real she's the queen i would like to revoke one of my nipples from mia and give it to

meg cabot because her source material is way better. To her source material that got botched. I mean, these authors are so brave. Like, where they're like, I read the Call Me By Your Name author, where he was like, honest. And I read the book after I saw the movie. The ending's completely different. I think they should have done the ending like the book.

And the author was like, they changed my whole story, but I really respect it. And I'm like, I don't know how you do that. Because if I wrote a book and someone changed like one thing, I'd be like, no! But what about a million dollars? Yeah. Actually, that's the thing.

Perhaps that's the swing vote. I could have so much integrity before I actually write anything. And then I write a book and they're like, we'll give you $4 billion. All the characters are different. I'm like, you got it, babe. Like, kill him. All male reboot.

Yeah, all male reboot. Fuck women. The Prince journals. Well, Marsha, thank you so much for being here. Thank you for having me. Give it up for Marsha Belsky. Thank you.

Well, what do you like to plug? Where can people follow you online? You can follow me online Marsha Belsky just my name on all places yeah I'm kind of like a guys gal so like unless you're into like men's rights like don't follow me

great big thanks to the New York Comedy Festival for having us thank you so much big thanks to Babies Alright for having us here you can follow us at Bechtelcast, all the stuff. Thank you so much for being here.

Give it up for yourselves. Hey everyone, it's Caitlin again. Just wanted to say from Jamie and I, thank you again to the New York Comedy Festival

for having us. Thanks to the venue Babies Alright in Brooklyn for hosting us and thanks to our guest Marcia Belsky she was great and make sure to follow her and to follow Headless

Women of Hollywood speaking of following things on social media you can do that for us on Twitter, Instagram Facebook at Bechtelcast you can grab our merch at tpublic.com slash the Bechtelcast. And you can subscribe to our Patreon, aka Matreon. It is $5 a month and you get two bonus episodes

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Listen to Crooks Everywhere on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm Gianna Pradenti. And I'm Jermaine Jackson-Gadsden. We're the hosts of Let's Talk Offline from LinkedIn News and iHeart Podcasts.

There's a lot to figure out when you're just starting your career. That's where we come in. Think of us as your work besties you can turn to for advice. And if we don't know the answer, we bring in people who do, like negotiation expert Maury Tahiripour. If you start thinking about negotiations as just a conversation, then I think it sort of eases us a little bit. Listen to Let's Talk Offline on the iHeartRadio app,

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