The Bechdel Cast - The Rock with Miles Gray

Episode Date: April 12, 2018

Jamie and Caitlin escape the prison that is the patriarchy and meet up with special guest Miles Gray to discuss The Rock.(This episode contains spoilers)For Bechdel bonuses, sign up for our Patreon at patreon.com/bechdelcast. Follow @milesofgray on Twitter! While you're there, you should also follow @BechdelCast, @caitlindurante and @hamburgerphone  Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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The patriarchy's effing vast. Start changing it with the Bechdel cast. Hello and welcome to the Bechdel cast. My name is Caitlin Durante. My name is Jamie Loftus. And we're here to talk about how women are represented in the movies. Women are awesome. Women are the best. I love women. Me too.

Okay. Well, as long as we've got that out right at the best. I love women. Me too. Okay. Well, as long as we've got that out right at the top, I think that's critical intel. Yeah. Our listeners need to know that we are allies to women. What if they came in like, what if they're not allies to women? I think that'd be kind of like an insidious fun place to start. Oh, like, you know, that podcast Analyze Fish? Like, it's like, yeah. Oh, this is a podcast where you convince me to like fish where this is a podcast where you

caitlin convince me jamie to like and respect women yeah i'm like you know what i'm not sold well they kind of seem like idiots well the movie we're talking about today i know we're we're recording in a different space with different i think we should just address what's going on yeah we are recording in our normal building right normal structure of meltdown comics but we're in a not normal space right because a bunch of things have happened we haven't recorded in a while no um some things have happened since then where meltdown comics the historic comic book store in hollywood california i've heard of it rest in power is closing down which also means the comedy venue that i do the programming for is also closing down so yeah we're recording in a different podcast studio which is adjacent to our normal

space but aristotle is not here he's not here today did you and aristotle have fun last night at the movies yes we saw pacific room 2 oh that's so nice i liked it better than the first one that's good what was better about it definitely more women um a more streamlined story that was easier to follow not a billion characters who all looked the same and therefore you don't know who's doing what that's good and john boyega is a much more charismatic leading man than Charlie Hunnam. I mean, John Boyega is very hot. John Boyega. Listen, let me just go off the rails. Very unpopular opinion, JK.

John Boyega, very hot. Whoa, cool it. Full body paralysis every time John Boyega is visually in front of me in any resolution. Hey, folks, this is an example of a conversation that would not pass the bechdel test interesting because we're talking we're talking about a man in the bechdel test uh which our podcast is inspired by i have a lot of for the movie we're talking about today i have a lot of asterisks to the Bechdel test. Well, you kind of have to. In a movie where women are certainly not the focus,

and if they are, they better be pregnant as hell. I think that is, yeah. So the Bechdel test requires that a movie has two female characters. They have to have names. They have to talk to each other. And with our version of the Bechdel test, they have to have at least two line exchange. So one woman says one thing, another one woman responds to her,

and neither of those can be about a man. Shall we demo? Yes, let us demo. Okay. Jamie, what's your favorite flavor of soup? Hi, Caitlin. I think soup is hot water and is a big old racket, and I don't believe in it.

Jamie, I agree. Hot water with flavors in it? Yeah. What are you, vitamin water but left in the sun? Stupid. That passes the Bechdel test. It certainly did. It doesn't have to be good writing. We have to say over and over and over. It does not have to be good. So we'll figure out whether or not this movie passes the Bechdel test.

We'll talk about its portrayal of Lemon. Infuriating. This movie is infuriating to me on a number of levels. So many. But on this level specifically because this movie is the ultimate proof that the Bechdel test is flawed. Is flawed. Yeah. You can pass it and yet still be a horrendous showing of a lot of things.

Sure. And we'll get to that discussion later on, but first, let's introduce our guest. Oh, he's wearing a great jacket. It's so soft. It's so tan. Can I just say, it is a hand-me-down of a French man. I'm wearing a French man's hand-me-downs, and that's the only way to live. I mean, there couldn't be a better backstory for this very nice jacket.

We're thrilled to have him. Yeah, the voice you just heard is that of the co-host of the Daily Zeitgeist. Oh, my God. On the How Stuff Works Network. Oh, my God. Miles Gray. Hi. Hi, welcome.

Thank you so much for having me. I am really excited. When you first asked me to do this, I wasn't sure what movie we would do. When you were like, what movies do you like, like ingest, like, I love The Rock,

also knowing full well that this is a terrible movie, but I'm so glad we picked it. I'm glad we did too. Because I rewatched it with a critical eye because I think I was telling Caitlin before,

like every time I've watched it, it's just kind of been like on. And that was like, It is one of those movies and the last time I saw it was maybe like 8 years ago so to watch it now with a critical eye

in the year 2018 this is like a TNT like you turn on TNT and this is on in the middle of it I think by law it had to be on at some point

at least twice in one weekend like on whether it's TNT or FX it was always on and it's one of those movies that's one of my favorites where you do,

I've seen bits and pieces. This is the first time I've seen the movie all the way through. I will say 36 hours ago, I'm improving. But this is one of those movies that I've seen chunks of over the years, and it's always the TNT edit where it's like, that's not what Sean Connery said in the movie, but I'm not quite sure what he actually said. I think I know what line you're talking about.

I love a TNT edit. Love it. My name's Buck and I came here to party. That's a Kill Bill line. This is what happens when you meet a stranger in the Alps. Yeah, exactly. The other one from Big Lebowski. Fuck a stranger in the ass,

turned to meet a stranger in the Alps. Oh, it was the original line. How do you fuck a stranger, meet a stranger in the ass trying to meet a stranger in the Alps what was the original line meet a stranger in the Alps that's I mean truly the ultimate creative challenge is to be the one who edits for TNT yeah and then but even though that you have like the freedom to just be like

honestly I think meet a stranger in the Alps is the only thing that's gonna work and they're gonna be like alright fuck it he's a pro he knows how to make words sound like other words without context so whoever did kill bill one did a real bang up job and i love them they're i have not seen that part that's that it really is i came here to party my name is buck and i came here to party feminist icon buck with the, Buck from Kill Bill 1. with the pussy wagon. Lots of, lots of feminist icons

in The Rock, which is a movie that for all you idiots out there like me, The Rock does not appear one time. I was waiting for a Rock cameo.

He does not come. Yeah, yeah, that was before. Dwayne Johnson, not in this movie. Dwayne Johnson absent, which already is like,

do I like this movie? Hard to say. So you had seen bits and pieces of this before. I mean, very bits and pieces. I knew that Nick Cage and Sean Connery were in a movie together and found that to be interesting. Right. I didn't remember that it was a Michael Bay joint. And that adds a lot.

Peak Bay. Peak. Tessa Peak Bay. Peak. This is, well, this. Tessa Peak Bay. Tessa. Stop that. I have to go. Stop that right now. Thank you so much.

My coat and I have to go. He can't. Jean-Paul's coat and I have to be going now. Jean-Paul's coat and I must go. So Miles, when did you first see? I'm so sorry. What? When did you first see The Rock?

Oh, I thought we were talking about The Rock. Oh my God. I'm sorry. I had to get high after watching the movie because I was so fucked up. I was like, I need to smoke weed after seeing this. So you're catching me there. And I also ate half a pizza on the way here. But the first time I saw it was in the theater.

Okay. In 96. Yeah, yeah. So I'm like 12 years old. This was like in the period when there were blockbusters in the summer. This was a big movie. These are like the big tentpole movies come out. And it didn't matter what the fuck it was you just knew you had to see it because it was such a spectacle and the movie like its effect on me was like pretty profound

at the time i thought i wanted to be like a navy seal because of the movie like it indoctrinated me very well that is something i had a question about because i was i was too young to see this movie when it came out i and also it like even if i was old enough it wouldn't have been a line like i don't think that this is a movie in the 90s you would have taken a too young to see this movie when it came out. And also, even if I was old enough, it wouldn't have been a line. I don't think that this is a movie in the 90s you would have taken a young girl to see. Well, you know, it's weird. The people would just take their whole families. I remember I went with a group of people and the little sister came. She was like six and was just like, hey, the big movie's out.

Let's go to the theater. We got to all see it. By the time I was in middle school, school high school there was such a reputation for all the boys who were like getting into the military and the idea of going into the military it was always navy seals and marines i'm like these are the badass branches of the military and i feel like it's movies like this that really push that agenda and that's such a michael bay thing to push a very specific view of very specific branches of the military that like really took hold of young people's brains yeah and it's weird to watch now and be like oh this

is why all the boys i went to school with thought marines were like the fucking coolest is because ed harris and his bald ass head were doing their best in 96 like this is crazy and the navy seals too like the technology they were using and they're just like this is crazy and the navy seals too like the technology they were using and they're just like this superhero type shit to me as a 12 year old kid was like very appealing and sure god like i remember right after i like begged my parents to buy me like urban camo like that gray and white like those fatigues that ed harris and those guys wear because i was like that's how i'm gonna dress forever because of this miles i feel like you're touching on

something very important, which is when young people see movies like this, they're like, oh, I want to be like that person. So if a young girl saw women being in the military, they'd be like,

oh, I can be in the military too. But so little has ever happened. But I would argue that this is such an inaccurate representation of the military that it's basically like kind of a wash. I'm not saying about this movie

specifically for women, but I'm saying if there were movies that made like women in stem seem cool or women in like computer science or like women in law seem really fucking cool we would see more women trying to do jobs like that yeah this is like a laser guided missile for testosterone like this this film which is kind of like an overarching theme in all of michael bay's work where even if you get into the transformers franchise and again i feel like i do this every other episode but i will direct people to friend of the cast lindsey ellis's really great video essay series on the transformers series but there's very strong pro military themes in the transformers series too where like this is is just a big overarching theme of Michael Bay's work, which is always kind of regarded as like, well, these movies are not good, but everyone's going to see them.

So they are very relevant. Yeah. And from what I could tell, and I tried to backtrack and do some research on how this movie was reviewed at the time, which was pretty well. I mean, it got three and a half stars from Ebert. What? It got how this movie was reviewed at the time which was pretty well i mean it got three and a half stars from ebert what it got like this movie was well reviewed right which is crazy to watch it now and be like oh yeah great but but this was like peak block this is the same year that mission impossible comes out this is like peak action dudes military adjacent shit yeah it's like this specific year is when all the big ones come out

and this is the most successful of that year but even now just last year the AV Club wrote this big piece on how The Rock which is sort of

I feel like a forgotten Michael Bay movie now? I don't think so. No, no. See, I had never heard of it. I thought it was a vehicle for The Rock.

It's like, yeah, if Michael The Rock stars in The Rock. But the movie is so well, it's a I for The Rock. It's like, yeah, if Michael... The Rock stars in The Rock. But the movie is so... Well, I read a few different pieces saying, like, this is Michael Bay's technically, structurally, etc., best movie. Sure, yeah. Maybe not most memorable, but best in terms of putting a movie together

with a story that makes sense is the closest he's gotten to making a cohesive narrative. Right. But i'd never heard of it see i've heard of it for years so my backstory with this is i only saw it for the first time almost exactly a year ago because i remember posting on facebook saying that yep because for years i was always like fuck michael bay i hate him he's a horrible director and he sucks and everyone's like well have you seen the rock and i'm like no'm like, no. People would be like, that's the one. He's living off that one.

You would like The Rock. The Rock is actually a good movie. So I heard all this stuff. Who said that? So many people were like, Caitlin, you will like The Rock. And I was like, I genuinely think that that is a thing

when we're looking at male directors versus female directors where male directors, if you have one good one, they're always like, no, he's actually good because have you seen this movie that came out 22 years ago? But if it's a female director, if she makes one bad one,

it's like all her previous successes are completely nullified. But yeah, this seems to be the one that people direct you to of like, well, Michael Bay was at one point semi-competent. He did one good sort of thing almost. But I wouldn't like cape for it like that and be like, you know, you would really like The Rock. Like to say that, you'd be like, you're kind of a dickhead. I've had no less than 10 different people say that exact thing to me. Well, yeah, he kind of sucks, but The Rock's pretty good and I think you'd like it.

And then I watch it and I fucking hated it. I think the movie is terrible. Unless it's like the caveat of like, it's the most brainless peak 90s action film. No one offered any caveats. But I would be, I would attach so many caveats. I wouldn't just be like, oh, here.

No, you know what is peak cinema? Yeah. Once I found out this was a Michael Bay joint, and also reading the behind the scenes stuff for this movie is wild in that like,

there's, who's the guy, Don, what's his name? Producer. Don Simpson. Oh, Don Simpson. Okay, so Don Simpson in the middle of production for this movie,

he's like the big producer who works with Bruckheimer and works with Michael Bay on this movie, dies of a coke overdose a few months. Not to laugh at someone's coke overdose, but this is peak 90s, like toxic male, like, we're going to make a movie about seals, and then one dies of a coke overdose. And then the twist at the end is it's dedicated to this guy

who had a coke overdose. There's also, I'm getting way ahead of myself, but I do need to say now, Nick Cage is the protagonist, technically, one of two in this movie. I would say, yeah. I would say technically the poster protagonist where Sean Connery's the villain, but not really.

Like there's a lot of straight, white, male heroes, but are they villains? But they're so nuanced. But if they weren't like white and straight, probably they would just be villains. But anyways, Nick Cage at the end of this movie, the last line he delivers is basically a prequel to National Treasure. Yeah. Where he's like, babe, did you know who the real killer of JFK is?

I was like, are you reading the fucking back of the Declaration of Independence right now, dude? Like, what are you? It was... Forget Maui. Right before he goes there.

The way he looks at that microfilm is so amazing, too. What about Nick Cage is like, we have to give him a Chekhov's gun style prop that reveals deep seated American students.

Also there's a dog in that scene that we haven't seen yet in the movie. There is a dog in that scene. In the last like 30 seconds of the movie.

Do they not even have a dog at their house? No. No. Wow. Don't. The end is like, oh, I guess they got married

but like- And then pretended to be like broke because they're like, we're in this shitty VW Beetle. In Texas, right, I guess they got married. And then pretended to be broke because they're like, we're in this shitty VW Beetle. In Texas? Right.

Kansas. Fort Walton, Kansas. Oh, okay. I'm sorry. I was not watching this movie. I just watched it and I have a pictographic memory. So I was remembering the note. Wait, do you really?

Front pew, right leg. Wow. Wait. Miles, that's awesome. No, it's only for The Rock, though. You're asking about any other movie. That's your curse. Your curse. Yeah, that's awesome. No, it's only for The Rock, though. Ask me about any other thing. That's your curse. Your curse.

Yeah, it is. You remember everything you saw about The Rock. I've been going to a lot of therapy, and I'm beginning to see it as a strength. Oh, good. I'm glad. Sorry for triggering you. No, that's fine. No, no, I'm not triggered.

You're actually activating my coping skills. That's a great way to look at being triggered. Should I do the recap? Yes, please. Okay, I'll do this so freaking fast so the rock is about so we uh as you said not the rock not duane the rock johnson but the protagonist is nicholas cage his character's name is stanley goodspeed goodspeed what a reveal he is a like chemical, chemicals weapons expert for the FBI. He gets called in to help with this hostage situation that takes place where Ed Harris's character, whose name is Frank Hummel, is a... Which is a weird choice.

Hummel is a German porcelain statue. Was interested in what the deal with the whole Hummel thing was, but I couldn't crack it. Yeah, my grandma would collect Hummels. They're like these weird German porcelain, very commercial statues where it'd be like Christian parables and porcelain.

And then, okay, I know we interrupt. I know we interrupt the thing constantly, but the two writers credited on this movie who are not, thankfully, I think for their own reputations, not visually credited and also because of writer's guilt rules. Oh, right. Sorkin and Tarantino contributed to the script for The Rock. No kidding. Yeah.

So it's impossible to say where these names come from or what these specific things I find interesting comes from. But there are a lot of good writers involved in this movie, but few of them are actually credited. Yeah, there was a quote about how Sorkin wrote, quote, most of the good dialogue or something like that. I mean, of course he's going to say that. Is there good dialogue in this movie? I mean, look, if it's Don Simpson, you know, Sorkin loves Coke too,

so they're probably all just flying off Coke. So it was apparently Aaron Sorkin, Tarantino, and then the three credited screenwriters were David Weisberg, Douglas Cook, and Mark Rosner. So a bunch of freaking men wrote this movie. Cool. All right. So anyway, the story is Frank Hummel is like a Marine, like black ops.

He was doing things commanded by the government that were technically illegal and then not compensated fairly or, you know, just various injustices were done to him and his fellow Marines and their families and things like that. A lot is done to humanize the villain in this movie, which is, I think, a Michael Bay thing that is normally not thought about. Right. Right. Well, he literally sets his stakes up in the first thing

by talking to his wife's grave. I would say he screams at his wife's grave. I'm so sorry! His wife's grave says Barbara Hummel, his wife. He literally just, I was like, ah! First of all, whose wife? And secondly, who is? It's the first thing.

It's the top line. It's his wife. Yeah, his wife, Barbara Hummel. I guess because they're already pre-designing the plot, so he'll be there, and then it'll be his wife. She is only defined on her gravestone by her relationship to a man. It's so crazy. Maybe they'll finally listen to me.

God, when this movie started, a Jerry Bruckheimer joint, a Michael Bay joint, you're like, okay, so there's going to be a lot of men with veneers in this movie. Great. Then you find out the movie is about Alcatraz. You're like, great. And then you find out about poor fucking Barbara Hummel.

His wife. Ed Harris, who is, I will say, doing his very best in this whole movie. I love it. I mean, I have such a soft spot for character actors, and Ed Harris has been sidelined his entire life, and I love him. But he, I i mean there's only

so much you can do he screams at his wife's grave he says i miss you so much everyone screams michael bay's directing style is more screaming please scream louder like yeah it's a lot hey the rain's really loud imagine she can't hear you through the rain ed you're screaming at her ghost dad you dumb bitch right like you know he's like just screaming profanity is at everyone at all times and so no one no single actor can be held accountable for whatever atrocities take place in the movie okay so ed harris's character um in response to the injustices that he feels has been directed at him, he takes a bunch of people, like tourists hostage in Alcatraz. So 81 tourists are taken hostage.

It's the most diverse group of people we see in the entire movie where there's a lot of, there's young people, there's old people, there's black people, there's Hispanic people, there's all sorts of people. We never see them again. Never check in with them. No.

Never. Don't need to, except for the crying father white hostage dad. Exactly. We see a series of racist caricatures, we see a crying white hostage, and then we basically forget that they're there from the very end. The most diverse scene just reinforces the craziest stereotypes. Right.

Because one cell is the clueless elderly Asian people and the angry black dude who's like, man, this is a fucked up tour. And then they go to like, okay, well, so we have angry black man. Now let's go to sassy black woman. And it's like, yeah, it's just like, what the fuck? And then this film, like, you know, that's why I say it's like peak 90s of sort of like this completely, you know, this was normal. And it was almost like, like, you could tell people almost had to write these like, and then, you know, this was normal and it was almost like, like you could tell

people almost had to write these like, and then, you know, we're gonna have to have like a sassy black woman say something here. You know what I mean?

And it was like, yeah, this movie has all of the great tropes in it. Oh, and that like the character who is coded as gay, the stylist who comes in

and like cuts. the stylist. We'll get to that. You can't, you can't just bring in a stereotype for two minutes and then discard the character forever more concisely than this movie does. Right. And truly emasculate the character.

Yeah. Oh, absolutely. Oh, yeah, totally. Okay, so Ed Harris is holding all these people hostage and has these missiles filled with the most deadly chemical ever to be known by a man. And he's threatening to fire these missiles on the city of San Francisco if the government does not comply with his demands, which is that he and his group of probably like, I don't know, 15 or so Marine black ops people like him. Guys who decided to join the cause.

Right. These like rogue Marines. They all want to be paid $1 million each and you have 40 hours to do it. So everyone, like the people at the White House, the Pentagon, military people, they all gather in this conference room, almost entirely men. They gather up a team basically of, I think, also Marines. I think, oh, Navy SEALs. This is where they use, those are the Navy SEALs. Okay, Navy SEALs.

Because they're the good guys. They're the good guys. And then they get Nick Cage because of his chemical weapons expertise. And they're like, but we don't know how to get in and save these hostages. We need someone who has been to Alcatraz because, like, the place is all, there's, like, no blueprints and all this stuff. Yeah, like the old warden has died. The security guards don't remember anything. Right. So they're like, well, we have one last chance with this guy named John Mason, played by Sean Connery, who is the only person to have ever successfully escaped Alcatraz.

So they find him. They bring him in. They, like, tunnel through Alcatraz. They get into the prison. Ed Harris is all like, get out of here. I'm doing my thing. Oh, he's doing his best. He's doing his best. He's doing his best.

Yeah. So most of the Navy SEALs get killed in a standoff. And the only people who are left of the good guys is Goodspeed and Mason. So they have to figure out a way to find all the missiles, because there's 15 of them, I think. And Nick Cage has to disassemble them or make it so that, like, destroy the tracking chips or whatever. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It sounds sort of vaguely like a video game

directive. Like, at some point, this movie... Find all 15 missiles and take guidance chip. Right, and then every time that they do that, like, a new challenge, I'm like, at some point, the plot of this movie does begin to feel like a bad video game. Yeah. Right. Well, did you notice one of the last Navy SEALs to die is the actor Danny Nucci.

Who is Fabrizio. You texted me about this so quick. I missed it. I straight up slipped. Oh, I was like, that's Fabrizio from Titanic. Danny Nucci is iconic. Fabrizio. He's like a silver fox now.

Oh, yeah. He is very hot. He's like, wow. The Nucci. And he was hot then. Yeah. The Nucci. I thought you'd appreciate that because I know He is very hot. He's like, wow. The nooch. And he was hot then. Yeah. The nooch. I thought you'd appreciate that because I know Titanic is very near and dear to you.

I was genuinely very upset with myself because I went back and I was like, oh, of course that's Fabrizio. But there are so many random B characters. I would say that there's three, maybe four in this movie that when they're Navy SEALs and when they're killed, you hear the little like, and you're like, wait, who's that character? They're like, and they're bleeding out. You're just like, wait, but who is that? Have you heard them speak?

It's like, No, it's senseless killing of Americans killing Americans. Right, and it's just like, oh, he was a hero. All those scenes, there's like three different scenes where three characters, I could not tell you who they were if you had a gun to my head. There's a two-minute scene about how sad it is that they died. And you're just like, whom is that? Well, speaking of guns, there's a ton of them in this movie.

And a lot of them are being shot and fired into other people. So, like, a bunch of people are dying. Goodspeed and Mason managed to find most of the missiles. But there's, like, one left. The green doofy one? I mean, they're all like that. They're all the missiles. And I don't know.

Listen, I don't know about missiles. Do I think that they actually look like Nickelodeon slime? I'd be surprised. Oh, yeah, the VX guys. I'd be fully surprised. I think the art department had a good time with that. The ADs really went wild on that. This is how we feel it should look like.

They look like those like- Anal beads? Yeah. They do look like anal beads. It's a string of anal beads. They look like a huge like colander of anal beads. Yeah, they're major league anal beads. These are not for weekenders.

Do you have, yeah, this is for an ass. This is for a real ass. Deadly. This is a lethal anal bead. So there's one final standoff where most of the rest of the bad marine dudes die, but Nick Cage has to find the one last missile. There's this whole fight, and then he saves the day.

He disassembles it, whatever. And then, what's his name? Mason is like, oh, now I'm going to have to go back and be in jail again. And he's like, not if I tell them you died. So he lets him escape.

Like the homie does. Right. Help you fake your friend's death. I hope you guys have that kind of relationship. God, of course Jamie. What happened to Jamie? And you're looking at her and you're like, she died.

She vaporized. She's vaporized. She told me where the anal beads were and then she disappeared. So yeah, the good guys saved the day. The city of San Francisco is safe. None of the hostages. Wait, but did the good guys save the day? Because if you think about it, all Ed Harris was really advocating for was better veteran care right right his whole

thing was like i want 100 million dollars 83 of it for the men that i lost and get discarded like trash that was the thing was like this is like a weird uncanny valley situation much like i would argue the original ghostbusters, the enemy being the EPA. Right. Like, where you're just like, are they really the enemy? Are they, like, why are we supposed to hate them? Right. Where, I mean, Ed Harris, where his practice is perfect, they were bad.

They weren't. They were bad. But he knew when he lost. That's why he was like, I bluffed. They called it. So the mission's over. Right. You know what I mean?

And then it's the other dudes who kind of take over. And then the greed takes over. Yeah. Right. You know what I mean? And then it's the other dudes who kind of take over. And then the greed takes over. Yeah, right. You know what I mean? This movie is very weird. And also, I mean, I think we'll get into this, but there is a male friendship that coagulates through the course of this movie between Nick Cage and Sean Connery, right? But everything that they are bonding over is completely toxic.

Oh, sure. Where do I think it's good to see a movie where two men form a friendship? Yes, I don't think we see that enough. But do I want to see it based on, like, guns? Dislike? Like, you know, they bond on every problematic, weird thing

there is possible to bond on, according to Michael Bay. And then it's like, oh, but they're friends. That's kind of nice. And he should absolutely be in jail because, like, in the many scenes of destruction in this movie, I would say we've got hundreds of casualties on our hands that are never addressed in the city of San Francisco. Oh, sure. When they're plowing through. There's like a whole trolley full of people who are flinging themselves off.

Hey, but all the stuntmen rolled away. It's not like you suddenly get caught under the wheels. That's what the thing is because it reinforces this 90s sort of ignorance of like, it's like the most consequence-free film that's a film about people taking hostages and potentially killing an entire city of people for like that's a film about people like taking hostages and potentially

like right killing an entire city of people like there's and that's what the 90s was you know i mean like there was like cell phones weren't scary yet you know i mean we had internet enough that it helped improve things but like things hadn't quite turned to like peak scary and i think this movie like is such a reflection like it because like there's no thought given to anything this is like right before we get into like the late 90s like hacker characters of like the internet's getting scary right I think this is like sort of maybe the last like year or so where that doesn't exist in the movie but the three main characters we have in this movie and hopefully this works as an effective transition. The three main characters we have in this movie are all grounded or the plot attempts to

ground each of them using a female character. So with Ed Harris, we've got his dead wife. Barbara! His wife! I'm so sorry, Barbara! And his wife. So his wife is dead so he's mad and has nothing to

lose. And that is the basis of what we have to characterize him with then we see nick cage and we see first of all an actress whom i love because she played brenda on general hospital my mom watched general hospital every night growing up and we used to recite the names of the characters during the intro. And it would end with Brenda and Max. So I knew exactly. I was like, it's Brenda. But so this was supposed to be Brenda's, you know, breakout role. Didn't work out because it's a bad role.

She's forced to be on top of Nicolas Cage. She's fucking Nicolas Cage. She has pigtails and a feather bow on. And it's like, there's no hope for this woman. There's no career upwardness going on here but but she is the female character who i would say is the strongest of the movie i mean she gets the most screen time which is maybe a combined total of two minutes yeah right like yeah most of it is her crying yeah A lot of it's her crying or being like sassy. The most I'll argue for this movie is that she seems smarter than the amount of screen time and credit she's given.

She doesn't seem like a stupid person. She's costumed like a stupid person. But it's like, you know, there's no depiction of women having jobs in this movie at all. But her depiction is that she is Nicolas Cage's girlfriend. And to add and to raise the stakes, not to necessarily have a female character, but to raise the stakes, we have his girlfriend be pregnant. So whenever Nicolas Cage needs a reason to not be dead, he's like, I got a baby on the way. And then. Can't fuck this up. Can't fuck this up. Can't fuck this up.

Brenda's pregnant. Carla. Carla is her character's name. But Brenda, for all my general hospital heads out there. And Brenda. We'll call her Brenda.

And Brenda and Max. And then Sean Connery has a daughter, Jade, I think. I believe so. And so there are three female characters

anchoring our three male characters and it's just peak example of like we're only introducing women into this narrative to increase the depth of our male protagonist right and that's the only reason one of those three characters is dead and we never see them on screen one of them we only see his wife his wife his wife one of them we only see on screen for one scene, which takes about two minutes of screen time. A scene that passes the Bechdel test. It doesn't, though.

It does. Stacey and Jane. We know their names, but they're talking. Hey, are you okay? Well, okay, yeah. Are you okay? Yeah. Yeah.

Boom. Bring me along. Yeah. And then Carla is in a number of scenes, but the thing with Carla is that she's poised as like this, like you said, like kind of sassy, but also like naggy, a nuisance, like a distraction. Because there's one scene where Nic Cage is like,

my girlfriend's coming. She's flying into San Francisco and she's pregnant. And he's like, you need to focus on the matter at hand. So like she's poised as a distraction. She just basically is there to cause complications for Nic Cage to focus on the matter at hand. So she's poised as a distraction. She just basically is there to cause complications for Nicolas Cage. They're like, oh, your girlfriend is pregnant? Oh, no.

She's pregnant. I love that video so much. I don't know if I'm pregnant. Pregnant. That was my impression. So she's pregnant. No, and it's funny, too. The way it's revealed, too, is she's like, how's your day? He's like, and it's funny too The way it's revealed too She's like how's your day

He's like the world's so fucked up I don't know if sick people would have kids Anyway this place is such a shit I have a lot to say about that scene too That scene is wild First time we're seeing a woman in the movie Who is not Barbara's grave There is one woman in the lab.

Oh, there is a woman in STEM? I missed. Who is hurried out. You see the back of her head running away. Bye, bitch. Get out, Linda. Men gotta do this bomb thing. So this is the whole first top 10 minutes.

Ed Harris screams at a grave. Nick Cage, full hazmat suit. Someone melts. And then we cut to the first speaking female role in the scene. Nick Cage, before she comes in,

Nick Cage is shirtless playing the acoustic. And pantless. He's almost naked. Playing the acoustic guitar like, man, rough day at the office. Someone melted.

Well, the best is what he's playing is so horrible bending the notes like and he's like just winding down and this is like a magic hour for nick cage where he does not yet know that he is going to be considered a bad actor by history i would argue maybe he's not the worst actor to be fair he found out he was nominated for Academy Award on this set. Yeah. And he won a fucking Academy Award. And he fucking won. For what movie?

Leaving Las Vegas. Yeah. This is the film he did directly after Leaving Las Vegas. And this movie helped him get face off in all these. This movie made him an action star. It made him that other. It's so funny because, yeah, he could have gone that Leaving Las Vegas path possibly. He did not.

Or he was probably always meant to be like crazy hair plug dude. This movie sets up National Treasure in a crazy way. But then, so, okay, so then Brenda comes in. Carla. And she says, you know, like, how was your day? No, she says, I had an interesting day. Yes. And then he, ignoring her, interrupting her, not giving a fuck about what she has to say

says i had an interesting day too and she's like okay you go first i guess and he's like yeah so someone melted rather than like taking the time to like see what her interesting day was or let her speak he's just just like, my thing's more important. And this is all to set up. And we don't find out from what I can tell. We don't find out. I have to assume Carla, Brenda. We have to assume Brenda has a job.

But we don't find out what it is. I was listening so carefully, even a hint of what she might do for work. But he's like, someone melted in FBI. And she's like, I'm pregnant. I was like, okay. I'm pregnant. Oh, fuck. I'm pregnant.

Yeah, the best is when she's like, well, what about what you just said? He's like, what? It was like about the world not needing you or her baby. He's like, that was seven minutes ago. Or she's like, that was seven minutes ago. A lot has happened. A lot has happened. Oh, shit. seven minutes ago. A lot has happened. A lot has happened, man. Seven minutes.

Oh, shit. Oh, gosh. A lot has happened. Do we know, does he say her name in that scene? I don't. I don't think he does. It takes a while to hear Carla. The only time, I feel like it's not until 90 minutes into the film, I heard the words

Carla. Are you sure? Okay, because I thought I maybe missed it. I thought I did too. And I was like, did I just hear her name for the first time now? I think you only hear it once. Yeah. And it's like halfway through the morning.

Okay. Oh, yeah, because this movie is two and a half hours long. It's so long. Carla was the prom queen. Yeah, two hours and 16 minutes long. I would say of the times you see women speaking on screen, it's probably only a minute and 30 seconds. Does someone have a super cut of that? Because I'm pretty sure it would fit into an Instagram video.

Totally. Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. So this is a result of there being almost no female characters in the movie and almost every single scene populated by tons of men. So for example, the lab where Nick Cage is deactivating the bomb that comes in, they think like sarin gas might be in um you see like we said the back of a woman's head running away every other person in

that scene is a man then you see a scene where ed harris his character is naming the terms of like what he wants they're in like a conference room there's two women at the table only one of them has a one single line. Granted, she is talking about a man being dead and other men being useless. So that's like if a woman has to say anything, it might as well be that men are dead or useless. And they're like, shut up, Maggie. And getting back to Brenda, I do think that like the one thing I was impressed about in that scene we just talked about with the shirtless, pantless, necklace cage. Like everyone melt in.

She's like, I'm ready. She is the one who proposes. Oh, yes. Which I thought was kind of cool. I did make note of that because I do like to see representation on screen. That's a bit of a subversion. Yeah, it's a subversion of the trope. Not only that we see in movies, but we see in real life as well. I don't know how inspiring it is to aspire to be Mrs. Goodspeed,

but I did think it was cool that she proposed and then also he was not like, ugh, because I feel like sometimes when you see a woman propose on screen, the male feels emasculated by it. He didn't seem emasculated by it.

He just seemed like, well, someone just melted and I'm a little bit overwhelmed. And then he later does agree to that same proposal, but he does agree to that proposal when she is in pigtails, wearing a feather boa, and surrounded by what appears to be 500 candles and Chinese lanterns. It almost looks like an inordinate amount. A crazy who set that up. And it reminds me of the Phantom of the Opera's lair. It's what it looks like like the only

difference is they're not steeped two feet deep in stagnant bog water that's the only difference yeah anyways sorry she does propose she does propose yes and I I enjoy that but again as we say about so many movies that maybe try to subvert a trope for like a split second i feel like movies like that don't get to do that and then also hardly portray women or portray them poorly like and only like on the condition that this subversion appears in pigtails and a feather bella right yeah yeah not the best right but so back to the scenes that are populated by entirely men or almost entirely men um all of them right pretty much yeah because all of the men the tourist moments i think are the only time when you'll

see a woman say something yeah but there are so many opportunities i mean like any of the people that ed harris has with him in his like rogue troop of people all men all the navy seals are men all of the government officials who are sort of in the command center giving orders and stuff like that they're all men it's just like and okay granted you could say this is this is 1996 there weren't that many women in the military back then there weren't that many women around back in 1996 yeah i think there's not 51 of the population i don't think my mom was even born then no no no women, no. Women are kind of a new thing. Yeah, it was pretty chill.

It was pretty chill. It was pretty chill. It was a pretty chill time. Really chill time. We just had our dicks out on the table all the fucking time. But, like, my point is basically that movies about military have so little representation of women. And the movies about people in politics, again, there's almost never women in those roles. Yeah.

A recent exception is, like like Annihilation. I think Natalie Portman's character is definitely military. And I can't remember if all the rest of them were as well. All the rest of the scientists who go in. I haven't seen it. They might all be military. Is she Japanese in that film? Wasn't there like some whitewashing thing with that?

Oh, from the adaptation. Yeah. Oh, no. I love Natalie Portman. I love her. I haven't seen it. Anyway, even so, movies about the military very rarely have, and you can be like, what about G.I.

Jane? Okay, cool. One example. Name another one. Yeah, exactly. Renaissance Man with Danny DeVito. I think that movies about the military in particular and movies like this, this is such a specific moment in time where 96, we're at the top of the Clinton administration of like, you know, these movies come out when the country the movie is putting the movie out in is doing well. Fucking flying.

Right. Like this movie does not come out during a recession. This movie would not be made right now. And if it was, it wouldn't be made successfully you know it's like this is the kind of movie that comes out when people are feeling nationalistic vibes and willing to accept the kind of stuff this movie is portraying like this movie would not work right now right and so like the context for like this sort of movie doing well and why there were a million movies very similar to it that were doing well with similar protagonists and characters and sidelining anyone who wasn't you know nick cage

tom cruise whatever this action schwarzenegger exactly and all three of them have huge movies that come out in 96 this is like a very specific weird moment in time where like america's kind of like you know it's it's very like a miracle kind of vibe at this time yeah i mean yeah and then like i said there was no need to think about anything that deep because everything was so everyone's needs were met i mean for the most part like in the country and again we were we were living the in the best of times because i mean i think that pre-911 90s straight white men's needs were met. No, no, but I mean like, I meant like just more from like an economic

sort of standpoint of sort of like how the sort of sentiment in the country was. Yeah, for sure. And this movie makes back its budget almost five times. Like this movie does incredibly well. And the only previous Michael Bay like thing was Bad Boys, which was kind of a fluke because it was an indie movie

that ended up doing really well. And so this is the movie that that puts Michael Bay on the map. They had two black guys in it. What the hell? It's a fluke. How'd that happen? Put three white guys in a movie, Michael Bay. See what happens.

It goes very well. Yeah. It goes very well. Well, what I'm trying to say is that you could argue at the time, oh, it's 1996, not as many women in the military yet, not as many women in the military yet, not as many women in government positions yet. But if you put women in those roles in movies, even if it's not necessarily super reflective of how it's working in society, people are going to see it and they're going to say, oh, there's a woman in a government, like a general position

in the military. Oh, there's a woman working at the Pentagon? Oh, I could do that too. And basically it's just upsetting that there were opportunities for several of these characters to be women in this movie. None of those opportunities were capitalized on. And then you have a whole, just like the whole generation of young people seeing only men being in roles like this.

No opportunities for young girls to see themselves represented on screen. And then they're like, well, I can't be in the military because... See, I have complicated feelings about not being represented in a movie like this. Hindsight, I'm glad that... And not to say

I'm glad that women are not represented in military roles in movies. I'm glad that women are not represented in military roles in this movie because this is such a toxic, so many steps removed of what the actual stakes of a military job actually is.

Like this is such a false depiction of that whole lifestyle where I feel like young boys, like you, Miles, when you're seeing this, like you get such a fake idea of what the military is and it's all action

and it's all valor and it's all this stuff that a lot of military movies push on you that ends up kind of militarizing youth and also giving them a total false idea of what being a hero is and that frustrates me on the behalf of young boys seeing this movie yeah i agree sold an idea that is false and we'll put them in danger one day and so i'm grateful that like you know you don't see women putting themselves because i would feel the same way if i if i saw a woman putting herself in danger in a very false way and so it's a tricky i just think michael bay should just be in prison and be allowed to make movies because there's no there's with military movies in particular that's such a tricky genre because it's so rarely depicted accurately because there's no, there's with military movies in particular, that's such a tricky genre because it's so rarely

depicted accurately because it's, you know, it's hard to make a movie about the military that doesn't want to glorify it. Well, yeah,

because they all function as recruiting tools though. Right, exactly. I mean, and that's probably, I'm sure like with this, like with most films, like whenever you have

like scenes depicting any kind of military hardware, like that's with the blessing of the military. Right. Saying, we'll loan you this shit for your movie but also like we're gonna we have script notes you can't make it look bad you can't make it look uncool no that's a that's a trade-off a lot of people don't realize like if you see tanks and like real shit in films that's because the military is like sign up they've signed off on it and like that's what top gun was too that's like that was

their air force screening tool like is there like you want these jets well let's make sure this is as favorable a depiction of the military as possible or like the most like the best version of like dude I want to be fucking Goose and Iceman you know what I mean the military movies like on a base level they it's hard because it's like you know they have to exist they are

such like the military is a big part of a culture but it's it's you can't really unless you have access to stuff that would be very difficult to access, you can't make an accurate depiction of it. And so every time I see a young person seeing a military movie, it just makes me feel very conflicted and frustrated. Yeah, I see what you mean. Yeah, right, right.

Because they're being sold a false narrative. And I hate seeing young men being sold a false narrative. I don't want young women to be sold the same false narrative so i don't know yeah yeah i wouldn't want to be a 10 year old girl seeing a woman in a movie like being like i'm great at military stuff and then being like i should do the same thing right but it's a fake thing right because i think we need to demilitarize our country there's too much i mean the military budget is like $80 bazillion. And the education budget is like, here, have $2 for textbooks.

Meanwhile, they're like, here, have $80 bazillion for the military. And it's just like, hey, let's maybe reprioritize. So, I mean, this is a large cultural question. You know, I feel like it's a very easy answer to be like we see so many men shooting guns on screen shouldn't we see women shooting guns on screen and i'm like i think we should see less men shooting guns on screen and that you know like do i think it should be equalized and should we see female action heroes absolutely should we see the same amount of female like violent female action heroes as men no because there shouldn't be that many and so it's

like there's so many i just don't i just hate seeing children being like made to be like you know what would be like very you go girl cool if you were also extremely violent like if you broke this dude's neck with a fucking fire extinguisher right which is cathartic and cool for for any gender on the spectrum but do you want to show that to any gender on the spectrum when they're kids? I don't know. Probably not. No. Our heroes should just be honest people.

You know what I mean? Every movie should be very boring is what I'm saying. We should all have indie sleeper heads. Very boring. Honestly, Michael Bay, you could have just made this a PSA about veteran care and saved everyone the headache. The villain is the one who's pro-veteran care. Yeah.

He's basically saying, y'all are mistreating the veterans. And they're like, well, brr, brr, brr. And you guys aren't listening to the point

that I will fake kill Americans to get my point across because the government isn't listening to your needs. Wow. I mean, in a way, Ed Harris, wow. Ed Harris, I think,

really does like- Have you guys done Milk Money? Hmm? Milk Money with Ed Harris? No. What is that? Where he's like the nature guy,

and him, his son, and his friends go to this city to pay a prostitute because they want to see a woman naked for the first time. I'm sorry, sex worker. Really? For the first time, because they're like 14,

and they're like, we've not met until we've seen a naked woman. And then they go, then he wants her to be his mom and like tries to hook him up with Ed Harris. But it's crazy because I think these films came out within a year of each other.

And so on one side, you have crazy veteran Ed Harris and then like nerd, like single dad Ed Harris. That's why character actors are so interesting to me is like in the space of a year, they will sometimes do like,

okay, this is how they pay their rent and this is how they spent the rest of their time. Like, no one has done a career retrospective on Ed Harris. I bet it's fucking fascinating the amount of different shittings done. Was it a few years before this that he was, the first movie I ever saw him in was Apollo 13, which is a movie

I watched probably like 30 times as a kid. I don't know why it was on so much. I used to confuse Apollo 13 and the movie that happens because of The Rock, which is Armageddon. Right. That's the next Michael Pitt. Apollo 13 is a much better president.

Same universe. Well, then they'll say that it was John Mason, James Bond, too. There's like that theory, too. Oh, really? Yeah. That's terrible. As I was looking up weird shit about the movie, there's like, what about this James Bond theory? I'm like, no, I don't need that to be James Bond.

Well, let's get back to those characters. Because at some point, once it's established that Nick Cage and Sean Connery are going to be friends, it gets very silly. They're basically quipping at each other for like 45 consecutive minutes through various obstacles. Well, there's one line where Nick Cage says something and then Sean Connery replies with, oh, my days aren't that exciting now because I just read a lot of philosophy and avoid getting gang raped in the washrooms. And then he says, it's not as much of a problem these days. I think I've lost my sex appeal. And it's like, oh, you don't know.

Interesting precedent about rape to set. Like, we don't even need to talk about everything that's wrong there's not enough time to unpack I hate this movie so much it's horribly directed I hate Michael Bay he sucks so much

Nick Cage overacts every single scene he's in every line read of every line is terrible I stand for Nick Cage I hate him he sucks but he's amazing he's amazing not in a good way but he's amazing amazing person raising arizona and i like him in moonstruck and i don't mind him in adaptation and every other movie he's in i fucking he needs to be used exactly right i feel like nick Cage can be directed very well. Well, there are some lines that he says in this movie that I just want to point out and then a few other lines from other characters.

Dan Santa. One of the... Dan... Nick Cage starring as Dan Santa at Dan Santa University coming to theaters again. No. We're getting him to do the read next. That's our life skill.

I would never... Go on. So a few of my favorite lines. Nick Cage says something like, and I'm going to try to get this line read right, where he's just like, what do you say we cut the chit chat? A-hole. His volume control is all over his. A-hole.

A-hole. And then he's like, how in the name of Zeus's butthole. Did you escape your cell? It's just, oh, God. Because nerds don't curse. He hits buttholes so hard. And then Sean Connery says, he makes a really funny joke that we all just laugh and laugh at, where he says, you're between the rock and a hard case.

Tee hee hee hee. He says, when does he the rock and a hard case. T. He says, when does he say that? I don't know. At some point. I think they thought it was the funniest joke in the world. I think I was suffering so much, my brain just forgot about that one. I for sure missed some stuff in this movie. So annoyed.

It was just like, oh, jeez, I have to tune out for a minute. My favorite joke that is not a joke that needs to be fully explained top to bottom in this movie is the rocket man joke oh oh towards the end i don't listen to that soft ass shit so so nicholas cage and another navy seal who he's about to kill nicholas cage says hey ever heard of rocket man and the guy says, I don't listen to that soft-ass shit. And then Nicolas Cage proceeds to explain the joke he was making. Well, I ask because it's about to be you. I only bring it up because it's you.

Pause. You're the Rocket Man. And then shoots him with a rocket. He's like impaled by a fence post or something. There's so many quips in this movie where you're just like, could have used a second draft. Yeah.

Could have paid Aaron Sorkin a day rate. Dude, that was, no, that was Aaron Sorkin. He's like, that stays. He wanted it. You're the rocket man. Oh, there's a fun line. I think,

I don't remember exactly who says this. It might be Sean Connery, but he says something like, losers or blah, blah, blah. Winners go home and fuck the prom queen. I don't know if you know this, but women are not actually people. We are rewards. Women are rewards that men get to go home and have sex with.

And have sex with because they're waiting in a bed prone for a man to enter. 500 candles, pigtails, feather. I'm pregnant. I'm pregnant and I'm laying on a bed out with my arms out just paused my life is on pause until the man comes in but not visually pregnant

that'd be gross that'd be gross in it you put your gregnant in me oh my gregnancy my gregnancy I can't

one last thing I gotta say is that we do the high risk gregnancy we don't see any cats in this movie we don't but a cat one last thing I gotta say is that we do the high risk Greg we don't see any cats

in this movie we don't see a dog for some reason a cat is mentioned because Nicolas Cage says that he

killed his cat with his chemistry set when he was a kid yes he does so now's a good time to mention that cats

do have eight nipples this is cat facts with Caitlin they have eight nipples yeah male cats too? Yes.

Wow. Do they just recede? Do you as a man have the same number of nipples as a cat? Well, because I had like I had a male dog that I felt like

I couldn't find all its nipples. And I was like, oh, where'd these things go? Were you searching actively? Yeah, as a kid. I was curious because I was like, oh, I was like,

this cat has nipples. Searching for the nips. And I'm like, and this boy dog when I was like, this cat has nipples. Searching for the nips. And I'm like, and this boy dog, and I was like, three. I don't know. Or they dragged on the ground or something. They wore down. You know when you're just nippy and start to just drag. When you're just nip sliding on the pavement.

You're slipping on your own nips. Sorry I brought it up. Tripping on the nips. Sorry I tripped on my nips. Dude, nip tripping over here. I'm like, I tripped on my own nips. Can we, I do want to talk

a little bit more about the stylist character who, okay, so I asked. Do we have time for a CKL protein pack? It's his line.

Tee hee hee. Oh, there was one character who I would argue is a queer icon who I was shocked only appeared in one scene. Ranger Bob,

I think it was, who shows around Alcatraz and he's like, this is Alcatraz. And I was shocked only appeared in one scene. Ranger Bob, I think it was, who shows around Alcatraz, and he's like, this is Alcatraz. And I was like, queer icon, he's amazing. He says something like, welcome to Broadway. Right, he literally drops Broadway. I was like, this is such a Michael Bay weird view of queerness.

But for the Ranger Bob character, it really works for me. He's wearing khakis, they're tight. Wool socks. Wool's wearing khakis. They're tight. Wool socks. Wool socks. Very confident. He's like, welcome to Alcatraz. It's basically Broadway. And I was like, what a queer icon.

I love him. You never see him again. Nope. Like many great potential B characters, he disappears. What's the matter, fellas? Something wrong with the tour? And then, bye. I mean, comma fellas, comma queer icon. Yeah, fellas. Amazing.

Loved it. Hey, fella. So confusing queer icons with just old-timey people. James Cagney characters. So, Brag, I have a few gay male friends. I know. Wow. Shut up.

I know. I have friends. You guys, stop. And I asked them how they felt about representation of characters like this stylist who are coded as being gay but not necessarily explicitly stated. Right. So one of my friends said that if a movie character is gay, they want to know because the character explicitly states it, not because the movie is relying on harmful stereotypes to communicate that information. Another one of my friends said that they're okay with effeminate gay men being portrayed on screen because that is how some gay men present, but they would want that content to

be made by a gay creator, like a director and stuff like that, because when it's someone like Michael Bay, who is notorious for treating all of his characters like archetypes and stereotypes. It's antagonistic. Yeah. Yeah. I would direct people to a documentary that I saw a couple years ago and really enjoyed called The Gay Word for a further exploration of how gay characters are depicted by like especially straight, often male filmmakers. And also gets really deep into the gay villains trope that is popular for decades and decades of just like how coded gay characters appear on screen and depending on who

the filmmaker is how that affects how harmful it is yeah yeah what's it called the gay world okay great check it out i sure will yeah there's a line that ed harris says at some point in the movie that goes like this. Marbra. Marbra, I'm sorry. His wife. Menacing. His wife. It's the first time I've ever fucking named. Before the year she was born. His wife.

His wife. His fucking wife is what it should have said. It might as well have said. But again, we're talking about the coding of a movie. His wife is saying, he's got nothing to lose. Right. That's it. That's why it says his wife

before it says like 1957. You know, it's just, drives me crazy. Okay, Ed Harris says, man your posts, men,

which is, I think, the thesis statement of this movie. It's just like, using man as a verb to do your job, and then just be like, man, men. Man, you're supposed to be men.

As long as you're manning things, make sure you're man when you're doing it. Man that man cannon, man. His wife. Alright, his wife. His wife. His wife. Okay. I mean, that was the only place it could end.

It's aggressive. Just watch it again. I'm pretty sure I'm not hallucinating, but I felt like the text was so big. It was like the size of the tombstone. It was like his wife. Barbara Hummel. His wife. His wife.

His wife, Barbara. Does anyone have any other? She's the predicate to a sentence. Yeah, exactly. You're not even the subject. Does anyone have any other thoughts about the movie? Shame on anyone who would try to tell you it's a good movie.

It's not a good movie. If anything, they're conflating their nostalgia for it for a time when they were younger and couldn't have an adult thought about or critical thinking about the films they saw. When I think really about the feelings I have about it, it's purely the nostalgia of it rather than

like, man, when I fucking need to get inspired, I watch The Rock. I'm like, no. The last time I watched it, I'm so hungover that The Rock is on in the background. And I'm not going to turn it off. Yeah, and it's only because the remote is on the floor across the room and i cannot get up i wanted to say something really quickly we didn't really talk about the jade character i would say this is again just a big not surprisingly

missed opportunity by michael bay where we're presented with a female character who does not seem stupid she we see her at her college. She's meeting up with her convict father and brings a friend. This tracks for me. It's like if you're going to meet your father who's a convict, don't show up alone. She cops to this openly.

She questions what he's telling her, which makes sense if your father is a convict. But she's still ultimately in the space of the one scene she really appears in is characterized as property to the male character to the point where Sean Connery says to her, like, you're the only proof that I exist. Which totally just, I'm like, well, that's all she is to the plot. And so it's a bummer to see people, like, characters like her and, like, Brenda, not Brenda.

Brenda, actually Carla. But it's like you see these women who appear to have some potential as a character just ultimately be discarded. And, like, seeing the Jade character, I was like, because I didn't really know what this movie was about, I certainly didn't remember her. I was like, oh man, I hope she comes back. And she never does. Never does. Yeah, well, their mere existence, or it's sort of heightened by,

or it's exactly connected to their ability to procreate as men. Exactly. You're a verification that my dick works for Jade, and because you're pregnant, now I'm going to be a hero due to your ability for pregnancy. I have to live because you're pregnant.

The conversation about Jade leads us to whether or not this movie passes the Bechdel test. It sure does. It doesn't. Here's why. So there's only one opportunity where this could potentially happen,

and it's where Jade and her friend Stacy, both the characters are named, go to meet John Mason. And Jade says to her friend Stacy, it's okay. And Stacy says, I'll be over there if you need me. No men are explicitly stated or mentioned in that two-line exchange. Do you get coded into the conversation? But they're talking about whether or not Jade feels safe meeting her convict father. I am beyond willing to say this movie

does not pass the Bechdel test. Yeah. Yeah, that was, I mean, that was the only scene where I feel like it even comes into question.

Right. No other women interact at all. To the point where, and this is how badly this podcast and this test has jaded me.

So I'm like, why did he even bother to give Stacy a name if she was ever gonna come back? It's weird that they went out of their way. It was to make the point that Sean Connery couldn't even recognize his own daughter, right? Oh, okay. That does track. Wasn't that because he's in

Jade and she's like, Stacy, you fucking weirdo. Right. Okay, so yeah, this movie doesn't pass. So she's merely there to underline how shitty of a dad she is. It's purely to be like, well, how is he going to, oh, he'll think this other woman

is his daughter. What's her name? Oh, it's Daisy. Yeah. So, movie does not pass the Bechdel test. And I like was really, I almost had a panic attack

and I was like, did that just pass? And I was like, wait a minute, the context of their conversation is specifically about John Mason, so it does not pass. I'm very glad you said that. I couldn't believe it.

I was like, oh my God. Because in my mind, I was like, nah, there's no way. And I was like, holy shit. Which is why I think sometimes when women are talking in a movie, they can mention a man and the movie still passes, and they can not explicitly mention a man and the movie does not. I think it's more about context than it is about whether or not a man's name

happens to be mentioned. So we've come up on this a lot. Yeah, because the subtext is, is this man making you feel unsafe? Yeah, exactly. Which, if he's Sean Connery, probably not.

My dad who met my mom after a Led Zeppelin concert? God, yeah. Way to, I mean, and I appreciated how realistic Jade was about like, yeah, of course, I'm curious, but also like, I don't trust you. I mean, and I appreciated how realistic Jade was about like, yeah, of course, I'm curious,

but also like, I don't trust you. Yeah. Just again, the seeds of a female character that it would be interesting to see a second time. Yeah. We do not see. No, we don't. Bad movie. I hate it so, so much.

Three and a half stars, Roger Ebert. Bad movie. Well, speaking of rating, let's rate on our nipple scale. I'm going to give this movie zero nipples. I think it's a bad movie on top of it portraying women horribly. And Jamie, you brought up some great points about, well, do we really want to see that much representation of like women in the military and women in government positions when it's a movie like this where it's just perpetuating and glorifying violence and stuff like that where like no i don't i would rather women be left out of those

movies really i would rather movies like this not be made at all because they're not good and michael bay sucks and he should be not working in hollywood wow so i mean the fact that there are almost no women in the entire movie that all the female characters that do exist are there just to basically support or provide the motivation of the male characters. They're just flat. We hardly see them on screen. They hardly have any lines. And it's just not great representation. Miles Wade.

I would give it zero also. Because it's like if toxic masculinity was like a missile from the movie, like the rock is like the VX, like the rock as a film is the green anal beads that destroy everything. It's the kind of shit. They're even connected. Right. It's like the kind of shit, though, that like, you know, looking back, you're like, man, like this is what we were like inoculating and socializing like young men with. And like was just like this idea of like yeah dude the bros will get it go in there and just do their shit and get it done yo chill the fuck out you're

pregnant hang back i'm gonna do my thing and i'll be back in the baby chill like so yeah and in that sense and again when i was really thinking about it the only reason i have anything good to say about it is that it's purely like a sensation of the time that it came out in where I was 12 years old and my world was only as complex as like going to like a movie or like, you know, having a crush on someone. So in my low stakes world, sure, that, but other than that, it's like, it's like a one. Yeah. I'm giving this a zero nipples as well. I do agree that it is an interesting time capsule to point to if you see any extremely toxic adult man with a military industrial complex now. How did he get this way? They have The Rock on DVD.

This movie is a great way to be like, this is the sort of propaganda that was shoved at them at a very young age. And that is why people like this exist in the world. Right. Yeah. I, I, God, I think that earlier in this podcast,

just going off of how jaded we've gotten via doing this podcast. And I think our listeners have to, um, is that it's no longer, you don't get half a nip, a single nip for simply having women in your movie. Cause the context of how those women exist is so there's no woman that is introduced into this plot that isn't strictly with the intention of characterizing and giving more shades of gray to a man. Yeah.

So there's nothing. There's nothing. Every female character with any potential is completely sidelined, half written by Lord knows what male writer did not want to be included in the credits of this movie. I mean, not I don't know. And ultimately, where, you know, not to glorify toxic masculinity in any way, but like, there are some bad Michael Bay movies that are sort of fun to watch. This one isn't even fun to watch for me where i have no cultural context for it i'm like it's just a mediocre movie that is saying bad things so didn't enjoy the movie zero nipples i'd be curious for people to like if you're ever on a

date and you're dating somebody have the rock on dvd and it's a man is the owner to challenge them what they think of the film now because i feel like you'll find people who can either understand how bad the movie is or some people who are still actually holding on to like I think like it would be very telling because I'm sure I have a few friends who would be like dude the rock's fucking sick like you know what I mean and I think like it's very I think you can use that film almost as a litmus test to see if you can if someone we need to add it to our we have a litmus test list of films of like red flag films

red flag films this is going on the list for if someone tells you this is one of their favorite films and means it earnestly it's a red flag and if they can't

at the very least be like I understand it's bad it's a nostalgia or whatever and you can at least acknowledge that but I know people

who would probably fucking knuckle down and be like dude it's actually like the perfect action film when you think about it it actually she's great now and that's good yeah oh okay he saved a pregnant woman so it's bad all right whatever i don't know what this pregnant thing is and we don't have time we should you should plug the video because the

video is hilarious that's my plug okay Okay. Okay. What is it called? It's this video. We'll put it in the footnotes. Okay. So across the board, zero nipple rating. Bad, bad, bad. So bad. Michael Bay, boo.

Miles, where can people find you? Oh. I reckon it. You can find me on I co-host the Daily Zeitgeist which the two of you have been gracious enough to come on many times yay yeah just check out that podcast I'm on there a lot

on Twitter and Instagram at Miles of Grey and the video is called Am I Pregnant oh it's so good pregnant gregnant gregnant

all the hot ones are there all the hot spellings yeah great you can follow the Bentlecast on all the social media platforms

you can rate and review us on iTunes. You can subscribe to our Patreon. $5 a month gets you a discount on merch, which you should also buy. And it gives you two bonus episodes of the Bechtelcast every single month. Coming up in April, Juneau. Speaking of Gregnett. Gregnett.

Oh, goodness. 16 and Gregnett. Miles, thank you so much for being here. It's been such a delight. Thank of Gregnant. Gregnant. Oh, goodness. 16 and Gregnant. Miles, thank you so much for being here. It's been such a delight. Thank you so much. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm glad I was able to come by. People who are 16 and were impregnated by a high schooler named Greg.

It's my dad, my baby dad, Greg. Gregnant. I'm Gregnant. What a time. I can't handle it. I'm sorry that we got so sidetracked with pregnant. I'm glad you saw it. Daphne Caruana Galizia was a Maltese investigative journalist

who on October 16th, 2017, was assassinated. Crooks Everywhere unearths the plot to murder a one-woman WikiLeaks. She exposed the culture of crime and corruption that were turning her beloved country into a mafia state. Listen to Crooks Everywhere on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, everybody, this is Matt Rogers. And Bowen Yang. We've got some exciting news for you. You know we're always bringing you the best guests, right?

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