The Bechdel Cast - The Rocky Horror Picture Show with Joan Haley Ford

Episode Date: October 24, 2019

On this episode, Jamie, Caitlin, and special guest Joan Haley Ford do the Time Warp again while chatting about The Rocky Horror Picture Show.(This episode contains spoilers)For Bechdel bonuses, sign up for our Patreon at patreon.com/bechdelcast.Follow @joanhaleyford on Twitter. While you're there, you should also follow @BechdelCast, @caitlindurante and @jamieloftusHELP Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Hey everybody, this is Matt Rogers. And Bowen Yang. We've got some exciting news for you. You know we're always bringing you the best guests, right? Well, this week we're taking it to the next level. The one, the only, Katherine Hahn is joining us on Las Culturistas. That's right, the queen of comedy herself. Get ready for a conversation that's as hilarious as it is insightful. Tune in for all the laughs, the stories, and of course, the culture.

Don't miss Katherine Hahn on Las Culturistas. Listen to Las Culturistas on Will Ferrell's Big Money Players Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Daphne Caruana Galizia was a Maltese investigative journalist who on October 16th, 2017, was assassinated. Crooks everywhere unearthed the plot to murder a one-woman WikiLeaks. She exposed the culture of crime and corruption that were turning her beloved country into a mafia state. Listen to Crooks Everywhere on the iHeartRadio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm Gianna Pradenti. And I'm Jermaine Jackson-Gadsden. We're the hosts of Let's Talk Offline from LinkedIn News and iHeart Podcasts. There's a lot to figure out when you're just starting your career. That's where we come in. Think of us as your work besties you can turn to for advice. And if we don't know the answer, we bring in people who do, like negotiation expert Maury Tahiripour.

If you start thinking about negotiations as just a conversation, then I think it sort of eases us a little bit. Listen to Let's Talk Offline on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Minimum. Are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands or do they have individualism? The patriarchy's effing vast. Start changing it with the Bechdel cast. Hello, listeners. You're about to hear an episode that we recorded live at the Ruby in Los Angeles on the movie Rocky Horror Picture Show. And speaking of episodes recorded live at the Ruby in Los Angeles, we are doing another one on November 9th at 9.30pm. And we're covering Home Alone. And this is a show you don't want to miss because it's our last show at that location, because the Ruby is

moving to a different spot in LA. But that location has been our home for live LA shows for over a year. So it's very special to us. And we want you to come hang out with us there one last time. Tickets and details are at Bechtelcast.com. Click on the live tab and we'll see you there. Enjoy the episode. Hello. Thank you for coming to the live show. This is the Bechdel cast. Welcome. Welcome.

Thank you for coming. I see some t-shirts in the crowd. Okay. Wait, I need to get, I have too many items. Yes. You situate, I'll talk. Please. Hello. I'm dressed as Brad.

Brad Majors from tonight's film i'm dressed as i don't know i was like it's halloween we're black and and then i didn't have time to go to cvs to get fishnets but if i had you would have been like oh oh, I get it. Right. So just imagine I had run that errand I was supposed to run. Yeah. I mean, you've got lipstick on. I think that's great. That's more effort than I would normally demonstrate at this event. So, yeah. But I love your Brad fit.

It's incredible. Thank you. The jacket, the Brad fit. The Brad fit. Yeah. The jacket isn't quite right. And I apologize for that. But.

Don't apologize. Thank you. That's right and i apologize for that but don't apologize thank you that's right women apologize too much and yeah we're putting it i've been saying it for years women need to stop apologizing for their brad cosplay they really do you're doing great thank you anyway my name is caitlin dorante my name is jamie loftus. And we, thank you. Thank you for coming. We are the Bechdel cast. We talk about the representation of women in film and how it's usually pretty abysmal. We use the Bechdel test as a jumping off point, and that is a media metric,

also sometimes called the Bechdel-Wallace test, that requires that two female identifying characters with names talk to each other about something other than a man. Does it normally happen in movies? Three, two, one. No! Oh, we've got a doozy tonight. You know, there is a real shaky hand.

Hard to say because I think the things that I mean, and spoiler alert, if anyone is a new listener on this episode, this show has very little to do with the actual Bechdel test. But in terms of determining it for this movie, it's very hard because there's I think three or four layers into determining. And then there's also like a consent question that has nothing to do with gender that you're just like, they're watching. So it's unclear. This is a wild one. We're excited. It is.

We're very excited. And we've been getting this request forever. Yeah. And tonight's the night. Tonight's the night. We've done it. By round of applause. Who has seen the movie rocky horror

picture show wow i think we've done your homework all right looking carefully uh has anyone not seen it clap clap oh yes okay we are not gonna do what rocky horror does which is humiliate you if you've never seen the movie. It's fine. Not everyone can see every movie. Isn't that a fun community aspect where if you haven't done what everyone else has done, you're absolutely humiliated in front of strangers? I think that's a very chill entry point to a community.

Definitely. I think that's great. And I think it's brave of you to to show up to an event about a movie you have not seen yes good enough yes we love that okay uh so we are talking about rocky horror picture show tonight and uh we we have a guest with us we certainly do a returning guest to the show we love her yes you might remember her from our Scream episode. She is a comedian and a writer for Nerdist and Thundercats Roar on Cartoon Network.

It's Joan Ford! Joan Ford! Hi! Hello! Hi. I've always wanted to be a Halloween tradition and now I am one. Yay! Yes. Yes, welcome back. Thank you for having me.

Of course. Also, I mean, since we're commenting on fits, an incredible themed Halloween fit. Yes. I feel like, yeah. I love you. I've decided I'm like,

backstage I've decided I'm like Halloween Janet. I feel like this is what Janet, she wouldn't get a full costume, but she'd wear like a cute dress with like skeletons on it. She'd be like, I know what day it is. Yeah, I know what day it is.

Yeah, I know what day it is. I'm getting into the spirit of it. So, Joan, what's your history relationship with this iconic film? Okay. I was growing up. I was in my early 10, 11 years. You know, the early. The 10s.

The early. The 10s and 11s, whatever you call those. The early ones. When, like, I think this was just hitting its 20th anniversary. I remember, like, Fox was, like, playing it. It was, like, Fox was making, like, a big deal out of, like, after Herman's Head, it's time for the first network broadcast of the Rocky Horror Picture Show.

And, like, I did not know what this thing was. Like, I had kind of heard inklings of it, like, as a, like, cult movie, but I didn't really know what it was. And I remember seeing it for the first time, like, on that broadcast and being kind of, like, transfixed by it, but not quite knowing why.

Like, I remember going back to my, like, Catholic grade school the next day and telling everyone about, like, and there's this, he's, like, a transvestvestite and I didn't know quite what I was saying but it got me in trouble but yeah I was just like this is so I was like I was like this is very cool like I thought this I had discovered a cool thing which I had but not many people agreed but I was like this is cool like he's a transvestite it's a cool thing right and everyone's like no and and yes that was like my first memory of it and then it kind of like it's a transvestite. It's a cool thing, right? And everyone's like, no. And, yeah, so that was, like, my first memory of it.

And then it kind of, like, it's a thing that, I mean, you know, I was a closeted queer white theater kid in suburban America, so it kept creeping up in my life. I remember once, like, I got home from, like, a thing, and my dad was like, hey, hey like I taped a Rocky Horror Picture show for you off of Comedy Central and like by that time I like internalized it it wasn't something I was supposed to like so I was like

I don't like that thing I don't want to watch that thing why did you tape that for me and I think that's when my dad like stopped being like well no longer am I going to like try to involve myself in their queer identity that's it I'm giving up I turn them off to it. One strike and he's out.

It was one strike, yes. And then I went to the shadow cast in high school and then in college and again when I moved out here. So it's just a thing that's been an ever-present thing in my life from a very early age. The 10s and the 11s. Yes, the 10s and 11s. You love them. A lot of love them. Yes, the 10s and 11s. You gotta love them.

Jamie, how about you? I got into Rocky Horror I think around high school. I know the first time I went, I was like, it was my freshman year in high school. My mom was very into Rocky Horror. Everyone's laughing

because maybe some people have already seen the pic that she tweeted at the Bechdel cast account of her at age 17 wearing really not many clothes that was her that was my mom I thought that was you maybe no no no I the pictures of me are far less cool than the ones that were tweeted I'm wearing far more clothes. No, my mom, like, in, because, you know, I grew up in, like, a suburban area as well where queer community was kind of scant to be found. And my mom, when she was younger, like, loved going. She went every single month.

She was a stan. She was there. She knew it all. She loved wearing leotards in public. She just was there. So she was, like, it all she loved wearing leotards in public she just was there so she was like really encouraging me to go when I was a young teen and I went I went with my cousin I think we went maybe like once a year when I was in high school to the West Bridgewater showing I mean if all my West Bridgewater heads listening to this, it's a very small theater, but a lot of enthusiasm.

And then I think I went like once or twice more in college than when I lived here. But I've been like, I want to say like five or six times. Okay, very good. What about you, Caitlin? I've never been to a live screening. I've seen this movie probably only a handful of times. I saw it for the first time in college when I was getting one of two film degrees that I would eventually have.

But I thought it was cool and campy and subversive but you may know this about me. I'm not a huge fan of musicals. Although this is one that I tolerate quite a bit more than others.

But for me, it comes down to story and the story of the, because again, I do have a master's degree in screenwriting from Boston University that I simply hate to mention. It's not what one would call cohesive. Yeah, not a classic three-act structure. No. I think that there's, because all three of us

have watched it multiple times in preparation for this, and between the three of us, we really tried to place together like, oh, I think that they maybe thought they were foreshadowing their Yeah. When do we find out these

characters are aliens? This was the first time I watched it and completely realized Brad and Janet have absolutely no bearing on the actual plot of the film. They could be erased from the story, and the film would end the exact same way it ended. Right. Yes. If they had. Right. Yes.

If they had never arrived. Yes, if they had never arrived. So them arriving as an inciting incident, if we're talking your degree. Yes. Thank you so much. It doesn't incite. It seems to incite what was going to happen anyway. Yes.

Yes. It incites nothing. The party was going to happen. The brutal murder of famous rock star Meatloaf was going to happen independently of them. They're not even in that scene. They are audience surrogates in the most literal way in that they are just audience members

who get to have sex with the main character at one point. Yes, it's the best audience surrogate. I like to think that Brad and Janet inspire Riff Raff and Magenta to rise up against their bourgeois oppressor

and take over at the end. Well, here's my question. I was getting a lot of like Cersei and Jaime Lannister energy from them. Yes. Because they keep being like, we're siblings,

but we're kissing. And you're like, let's not go here. But then at the end, they're like, no, we are still siblings who are fucking, but the twist is we're alien siblings who are fucking. You're like, all right. I guess that's a twist. I don't know who you guys are really.

I don't know. Well, with that, should we get into the story? I mean, let's try our best. We use the words story and plot loosely for this movie. But here it is. Between the three of us, we'll do our best. We'll figure it out. We'll solve something together.

I mean, truly, if anyone in the crowd has expositioned some little seedling that was planted that we totally missed, let us know. It's very possible. Maybe we're bad viewers. You guys educate us. We're blaming ourselves. I know we just talked about it, but I apologize for what's

about to happen. I'm already sorry for it. I think this is going to go great. Okay. Thank you, is going to go great. Okay. Okay. Okay. Thank you, Brad. You're welcome.

So Janet, which is Susan Sarandon's character, and Brad, played by Barry Bostwick. He was on Spin City. Spin City. Brave. I've never seen it, but. Did you say brave? Call him brave? Yes.

Brave. He was brave to do Spin City. Yes. They are at their friend's wedding. And the two of them get engaged after the wedding is over. It's unclear whether they want to get engaged. They definitely think they should get engaged. Right.

Right. And then they sing a song about being engaged. One of the best songs in the movie. I mean, damn it, Janet. Good stuff. This is when it's revealed that Susan Sarandon has a serviceable high school soprano. Oprah!

They're not helping her. Like, it's just not her. It's clear that she's an alto. Yes. Then we cut to a scene where they are driving in the dark and stormy night to visit their friend, Dr. Everett Scott. As we all do right after we get engaged.

The first people you tell after you get engaged, you're a high school science teacher. Not your parents. That's a fun thing to imagine. you can engage your high school science teacher. Not your parents. That's a fun thing to imagine. Like, oh, what if I just went to Mr. Grind's house? Yes, yes. And they're traveling on what turns out to be a dead-end road, and then they get a flat tire,

so they get out of the car and walk to this castle that they had passed a few miles back. And the light is on in the castle, so they figure they can go in and use their phone to call for help. And then a spooky-looking person answers the door. The writer of the movie. Yes, the writer, Riff Raff, played by Richard O'Brien.

Richard O'Brien, who comes back time and time again, is a person who wants to be taken very seriously as an actor. Yes. But he created Rocky Horror Picture Show. Yes. And he plays Riff Raff, and he answers the door. And Janet and Brad hear some commotion, and Riff Raff tells them about a social event

that the Master is hosting. Cue the iconic Time Warp song, which... Joan mentioned last night everyone from their youth... Yes. Yes. Oh, yes. I mean, my sense memory of that scene is that there's literally, like, 100 people at dance hall.

And we watched it last night, and when there's, like, maybe 12, I was like, why memories are so false, memories are lies. There's 12 LA casting people. Yeah, sort of just like, yeah. Stumbling their way through like what are they doing? They've all kind of learned the dances.

They clearly have like, yeah, they had a day for rehearsal. Yeah, they have close shots on like the three or four who learned it. And then the rest are just like, oh, that's a fun party. You guys have fun. Do something. Just move to the music. And then it later becomes clear that there were days that they could afford for those same extras to come back.

And days where they clearly couldn't afford for them to come back. Not to jump ahead, but the floor show. There's no audience for the floor show. And it's like, you've written people who've, the whole job of the movie is just to watch what's going on. And they're not there for the big finale show. It wasn't in the budget. No.

But the song does slap. And that's what's important. It is good. It's still good. It does slap. And yeah, so there's all these, suddenly there's a bunch of kooky people people and they're all singing and dancing. And among them are Magenta and Columbia.

And then Janet is like, let's get out of here. It's weird and scary. And just then, Dr. Frankenfurter shows up. Tim Curry in the role of a lifetime. Yes, I want to take elocution lessons from him from this movie. Just pronounce every word the way he does.

So I did some Tim Curry diving on this one and Terry Gross, I mean an icon in her own, right? Terry Gross, she asked him how did you develop this part? He's like, well, I was trying to figure out, I guess that Frank-N-Furter was American accented for a while,

Cockney accented for a while. And then Tim Curry was like, but what if Frank-N-Furter sounded like the queen? And that was why that character sounds that way. And it's terrific. It's a great choice. And Frank Converter sings a song about, and I feel weird using these words,

but being a sweet transvestite from transsexual Transylvania. And that song also slaps. Yes. It absolutely does. And the performance is incredible. Yeah. Oh, yeah. And then Janet and Brad are invited upstairs.

Because the castle has an elevator. Yes. The castle has an elevator. Their wet clothes are removed. So now they're just in their underwear for a little while. And Dr. Frankenfurter, who is... Does Janet ever get her clothes back? I think they get robes.

They get very silky, flowy robes. Janet definitely gets her clothes back less so than Brad does. Yes, true. She's in her underwear for, I would say, the majority of the movie. Yes, correct. But Frankenfurter is a mad scientist, and he unveils his latest creation, which is a person named Rocky Horror.

Get it? And Rocky's bandages are removed, and then he sings a song. There's just song after so many songs. And I would say that Rocky Horror, the actor playing Rocky Horror, tries to sing a song in this. Yeah. They hired a model. Yeah.

Yes. It's a lot of, like, scream singing. Yeah. He invented. Yeah. There's a lot of high school energy. Yeah. Dr. Frankenfurter is very pleased with how Rocky turned out because he's very muscular and...

Very diplomatic way to put that, yes. Yes. Well, he seems to have created Rocky mostly so that he can have sex with Rocky. Yes. And then Eddie Meatloaf shows up. And then we're like, hold on, Meatloaf? And then we pause and we're like, pre-Bat Out of Hell or post-Bat Out of Hell?

Pre. Pre. He's not famous yet in this one. Because I was just trying to figure out, well, we were all trying to figure out, where's the majority of this budget coming from? Yes. And it seemed like it was post-Bat Out of Hell. A lot of it would be going towards Meatloaf.

But it's pre, so we just don't know. Yeah. out of hell, a lot of it would be going towards Meatloaf. But it's pre, so we just don't know. Yeah, if anyone knows what you had to pay for a Meatloaf cameo in 1975, let us know. I don't think it was super high. It was like, Tim Curry, Susan Sarandon, and Meatloaf were all pre being very famous in this movie.

So we just, corners were cut. I'm clear why. Well, the budget was only a little over a million dollars, right? Right. So, I mean, it's a billion dollars. I don't know. It's a million dollars. Frankenfurter's makeup alone costs $500,000.

Big, probably big, like, sequin budget, too. Yes. 100%. Okay, so then Eddie is there. He's a biker. He's a biker. Okay, so then Eddie is there. He's a biker. He's a biker. He's got a big gash on his head.

He sings a song. He's Mr. Lobotomy. It took me forever to figure out what was happening there. But he loves rock and roll. He sings a song about it. And then seemingly out of nowhere, Frankenfurter chops him with an axe and kills him. And we're like, oh, surely this will come back.

And for a long time, it doesn't. And then Frankenfurter goes off to have sex with his creation, Rocky. And meanwhile, Brad and Janet are shown two separate rooms to sleep in. And then someone who Janet thinks is Brad comes in and starts kissing her. But it's actually Frankenfurter in a scene that we will talk about. Don't you worry. And then Frankenfurter does the same thing to Brad in another scene that we'll also talk about. And then meanwhile, Rocky has

gotten loose from his chains because he's a prisoner. Because in that Rocky is a prisoner of Frankenfurter but then the reason that he is I still haven't made heads or tails of this is because he's taunted by a

candelabra being held by Riff Raff and Riff Raff is like candelabra. Yes. Yes. Being held by Riff Raff. And Riff Raff's like, he, he, he, candelabra. And Rocky's like, no candelabra. And then he escaped. I was like, that is what breaks him? Yeah. He's being held prisoner.

Yeah, gothic lighting. No, thank you, Rocky says. He's like, I'm out of here. Yeah, no. And he shimmies down the fire pole. It was like, why was Riff Raff Yeah, I know. And he shimmies down the fire pole. It was like, why was Riff Raff taunting him with that candelabra? I simply don't know.

I simply blew you up. I don't know. Well, everyone pour into our DMs telling us why we're so dumb for not realizing the candelabra taunt. Rocky does not get very far. And then Janet finds him. And she is extremely horny now so she sings a song

about how she wants him to have sex with her and then they have sex and I'm going to say that song slaps that's my favorite song in the movie and we get to see the ever so rare female orgasm on screen

oh is that what happens? And we get to see the ever so rare female orgasm on screen. Oh, is that what happens? Caitlin, we'll unpack this at a later time. I think it's implied that that's what happens at the end. And then the red silk sheet is pulled over her like, don't look at it. It's like, oh, we saw it. That's why we're here. Okay, good to know. Yeah.

Then Dr. Everett Scott shows up, and Frankenfurter considers Dr. Scott to be a rival scientist. Classic rivalry, yeah. And Frankenfurter thinks that Dr. Scott sent Brad to the castle to spy on Frank and Ferder. But the reason he actually come was to find his nephew, Eddie, who we saw get chopped. Meatloaf was his nephew.

And now he's dead. It's all tied together very naturally. We're like, this is not convenient at all. Oh, the German scientist's nephew is meatloaf. Ah, yes. And then Frankenfurter and Brad discover Janet and Rocky post-coitus, and I guess post-orgasm. And they're not happy about it.

For sure, yeah. But then they all have dinner together. And it's a tense dinner. It's tense. During dinner we find out that Frank and Ferder and company are aliens. Over an hour into the movie. Yes. By

the way, everyone who lives in this castle is an alien. Also the castle is a spaceship. Yeah. And then Dr. Scott finds out that his nephew Eddie was killed and like the reason that Eddie had a gash that his nephew, Eddie, was killed. And the reason that Eddie had a gash on his head, we find out eventually that Frank and Ferder removed part of Eddie's brain to put into Rocky's head.

So now we understand Meatloaf's head scar. Right. It's like a little clue you planned early in the film. Foreshadowing. Yes. Foreshadowing for a payoff that never comes. Yeah. Where it's like, oh, okay, so his brain was cut in half.

Does that have bearing on future events? No, it doesn't. No. It's just stated, and you're like, oh, that sucks for Meatloaf. Oh, he's dead. Yeah. And they've been eating him. Well, I guess I don't.

Yeah, and they ate him. Yeah. So he has bigger fish to fry in this situation, really. It's so confusing. And then Frank Converter turns Brad, Janet, Dr. Scott, Columbia, and Rocky into stone statues because he's had enough of them, I guess. I'm not, I don't know. And then he puts on a show featuring the statues, which then turn back into the people.

And then Riff Raff and Magenta show up. And they're like, hey, Frankenfurter, we're going back home to our home planet. They're in space outfits now. Yes. Yeah. And they're going back to their home planet in the Transylvania galaxy. And then Frankenfurter sings a song about how happy he is to be going home but Riffraff is like you misunderstood

it's only me and Magenta who are going back and then he shoots Cersei and Jaime energy they're like no one is anything we're gonna kill everyone who isn't directly related to us cause then Frankenfurter gets shot with a laser gun and

Rocky tries to save him but they both die and then riffraff is like hey brad and janet and dr scott you should get out of here now because we're about to leave on our castle spaceship and then they leave and the castle blasts off into space and that's and everyone's like weird night everyone's like, weird night. It's a movie, yeah. The end. Also, the story, like, there are cuts to the narrator, who is, like, a, he's, I don't know who he is. The narrator, I believe, is, like,

billed as, like, the criminologist or something. Right, oh, okay. So, yeah, this is, okay. It was the first true crime podcast. It was like he was just recounting the story of this true crime that happened. Incredible. So that's the story of Rocky Horror Picture Show. Yay!

Hey, I'm Gianna Pradente. And I'm Jemay Jackson-Gadsden. We're the hosts of Let's Talk Offline, a new podcast from LinkedIn News and iHeart Podcasts. When you're just starting out in your career, you have a lot of questions. Like, how do I speak up when I'm feeling overwhelmed? Or, can I negotiate a higher salary if this is my first real job? Girl, yes! Each week, we answer your unfiltered

work questions. Think of us as your work besties you can turn to for advice. And if we don't know the answer, we bring in experts who do, like resume specialist Morgan Santer. The only difference between the person who doesn't get the job and the person who gets the job is usually who applies. Yeah, I think a lot about that quote. What is it like you miss 100% of the shots you never take? Yeah, rejection is scary, but it's better than you rejecting yourself. Together, we'll share what it really takes to thrive in the early years of your career without sacrificing your sanity or sleep. Listen to Let's Talk Offline on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. My name is Manuel Delia. I am one of the hosts of Crooks Everywhere, a podcast that unhurts the plot to murder a one-woman Wikileaks.

Daphne exposed the culture of crime and corruption that were turning her beloved country into a mafia state. And she paid the ultimate price. Listen to Crooks Everywhere on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, everybody, this is Matt Rogers. And Bowen Yang. We've got some exciting news for you.

You know we're always bringing you the best guests, right? Well, this week we're taking it to the next level. The one, the only, Katherine Hahn is joining us on Lost Culture East. That's right, the queen of comedy herself. Get ready for a conversation that's as hilarious as it is insightful. Tune in for all the laughs, the stories,

and of course, the culture. I feel some Sandra Bernhardt in you. Oh my God, I would love it. I have to watch Lost. Oh, you have to. No, I know. I'm so behind.

Katherine Hanken's thing. Oh, I'm really good at karaoke. What's your song? Yeah, what's your song? Oh, I love a ballad. I felt Bjork's music. I just was like, who is this person? I got to hawk this slalom, Lugie.

Not hawk the slalom. I absolutely love it. It was somehow Shakespearean when you said it. It was somehow gorgeous. Yee, my slok, you hollum. Listen to Las Culturistas on Will Ferrell's Big Money Players Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. That's so funny.

I feel like even the biggest fans of this movie would struggle to explain the plot. Yeah, I think so. They're like, the first half hour is amazing. And then by then, hopefully you're drunk. So there's a lot to unpack here. Yes. Let's get into it. Where shall we start?

Oh, gosh. Well, do we want to start, I suppose, with the cultural impact this movie has had? Yeah. I mean, I've done a lot of research outside. Because, I mean, there's a lot to talk about what happens in plot. But the main legacy of this movie is the subculture that has popped up around it. And so I did a fair amount of research.

Because I've gone to see Rocky Horror Picture Show in theaters a number of times. But never. I was so young when I started seeing it that I didn't really question the culture around it and then continued to not do so. Yeah, it's like I, probably the last time I went to a stage show or a shadow cast of it was maybe like eight or nine years ago. And yeah, I guess I didn't know back then that shouting slut 100 times at the screen was bad.

Right. So that is like the main thing that people take issue with. So if you're not familiar with the culture that surrounds live screenings at the Rocky Horror Picture Show, there's a very well-documented and kind of like unchanging sequence of things that people yell at the screen, props that they bring. There's like stuff that like there's forks thrown at one point. There's

water that's sprayed. And it's like a very ritualistic thing. And some of the rituals are very like kooky and fun. And other of the rituals have not aged very well. So just any time that Janet's character is on screen, you're supposed to scream slut at the screen, even though she has sex no more than anyone else in the movie. Not even like Brad. She and Brad stray about from each from each other about equal amounts like yet he is not referred to as a slut. Never.

Yeah. And so there is some interesting, I think conversation that i i will just admittedly just scratch the surface here on the conversation around this culture because it is like an interesting complicated legacy for a movie that i mean certainly in my area and i think a lot of areas in america in particular are an entryway into queer culture and a very clear place to go that if you are if you want to be involved like it's a good place to start yeah it's it's just kind of a like it's it's a very like almost like Mickey Mouse version of like of like queer culture which is appropriate because Disney owns it now.

Right. Yeah, yep. Think about that. Columbia wears Mickey Mouse ears halfway through it, so they knew what was going to happen 40 years later. But yeah, it is like I think back on that story I told, the fact that my

dad was like, you know, hey I recorded this off TV for you tells me that it like, and I knew he knew what it was, but it's just like, it's just this very, like, safe, like, it still, like, challenges you and is inviting you into a kind of, like, new, weird, fun world. But it's like, it's kind of like the safety version of that. Right. It seems to be a lot of people's step one into like, I have questions about my sexuality or this is just something that is, this is a community that is cool and interesting to me and let's explore it. It's a lot of people's step one because it's accessible to younger people as well. And so I don't want to neg this community on the whole

because there's a lot about it that is absolutely wonderful and necessary, especially in places where queer communities aren't as accessible. Sure. Yeah, I mean, there's a lot of value in having media like this movie that's palatable for young, suburbanite kids kind of thing and we'll hollow the word while it's very problematic let's say it is a lot of people's first exposure to queer community and it was

I think one of my first involvement it was like there was literally the GSA at my high school and you could go to Rocky Horror and that was really all you could do yeah and so it like it was important but that said there is a lot in the community that has been challenged and questioned over the years that I think is very interesting the yelling slut at Janet I think is the most obvious but there's also I mean there's like lines I looked through

just kind of the stuff I'd forgotten about what people yell at the screen of when Janet says oh I was saving myself and the audience will reply for what a rainy day look outside bitch it's pouring like they're just constantly yelling shit at Janet

and so I was researching there was some great stuff written about because another component of the Rocky Horror And so I was researching. There was some great stuff written about, because another component of the Rocky Horror experience is that there's a shadow cast acting out the movie in front of you. So there's local actors, and they often have a pretty cult following. Yeah, they become celebrities within this small niche community. I mean, I had the biggest crush on whomever was playing Rocky Horror in West Bridgewater in the late 2000s. I loved them, but they were like a local celeb, and I was like, I can't approach.

So there is this untouchable kind of cool quality, and there's been a lot written and interviewed about people like this so I I first wanted to share a few quotes from a former director and cast member from the 80s and 90s who was involved in Rocky Horror in the Houston area his name is Jeff Rauner this was written a couple years ago just kind of reflecting on his experience in the Rocky Horror cast. He's a cishet man, and he sort of wrote a column about reflecting on it years later.

So a few quotes from there. He says, quote, It's not as fun as it used to be. Watching Rocky after years of being a media critic has definitely worn the shine off the film, and the cult experience that grew up around it isn't really much better. Take Screaming Slut whenever anyone says Janet's name

is arguably the single most basic call line in Rocky horror history, alongside Screaming Asshole when anyone says Brad. It's basically Rocky 101 for the virgins, which we'll get to, so they can get used to the whole talking at the screen thing. I remember when I was a cast director,

we got a complaint letter sent to the theater. The main gist was that having hundreds of people screaming slut was kind of fucked up. I. Kind of. Kind of. It's kind of. I, with the righteous indignation

only a 20-year-old white dude can muster, threw a fit. How dare they besmirch a traditional part of the experience? Had they no appreciation for the culture of the thing? Had they no respect for the unique cinematic experience that was Rocky? Looking back at it now, I sounded like a fucking Gamer Gator. I sounded like every other aggrieved son of privilege beating his chest because his toys made other people uncomfortable.

It's a weirdly conservative mindset for something that was supposed to be about breaking boundaries. A lot of the people I ran with considered offense to be the whole point of the enterprise, which is kind of bizarre for a film whose main tagline is, don't dream it, be it. So that was uh one one perspective

on just like someone who was very deeply involved in the culture and then was questioning his own attitudes towards it oh and then he goes on to say and then i have i'm please bear with me everyone there's this is a very deeply entrenched community so uh he goes on to say, quote, a friend of mine once said that Rocky was LGBT cosplay for straight people. And that is definitely a sentiment I understand now. It's less of a boundary breaker and more of a chance for the comfortable to dip their toes in their perception of gay culture. Don't get me wrong. I loved being there. Hell, the first LGBT people I ever met were there, which is not surprising since I got my start back in when Houston was still sporting

anti-gay vice laws and there just weren't a lot of places LGBT people could go and be themselves. It feels like an artifact to be appreciated for its historical value more than its continued cultural relevance. It's basically the South Park of cult films

and that what it had to say has long since been said by better voices. So that was one perspective of a former cast member. And then there was a writer, Lindsay King Miller, who interviewed a number of current Rocky Horror Picture Show cast members just last year who first shared their own experience that I'd be curious, I mean, when I was going to, and we were just talking about this backstage, like I look back on going to the Rocky Horror

Picture Show generally positively and as like a fun experience, but even so, there is that culture around the idea of like if you're a quote unquote virgin going to the show or if it's your first time going, there is a lot of pressure put on you to. I mean, there are accounts in this story, which was published by them last year about people in certain areas who were asked to flash the audience because it was their first time going to Rocky Horror. I remember when I went for the first time, they were trying to convince people to kiss on stage if they were virgins, you know, virgins, but also I was 14. And I remember telling

the person, I was like, oh, this is my cousin. And, you know, like I was there with my cousin and being 14 and it just wasn't even something I even thought about until I was reading these other accounts of like, oh yeah, I remember having to like, you know, kind of hang on to my cousin and be like, oh, we got to, you know, look out for each other.

And so I just want to share a little bit from Lindsay's story. They did an interview, one of the most, so quote, sorry, journalism. Okay. Quote one of the most visible faces of the movement for a safer Rocky Horror picture show is

New York City cast member Jackson Torrey Bart, age 23 who started attending shadow cast performances at the Rocky Horror as a teenager and Jackson says quote, what I found there was a place to explore and express my non-binary gender as it began to take shape

and live truer in my queer identity. And then Jackson later joins the New York City Rocky Horror Picture Show cast and says that, quote, upon interacting with the wider community, I was surprised to find leadership dominated by cisgender straight people, most often men, they realized quickly that the Rocky Horror subculture was far from immune to the homophobia and transphobia from

which it was supposed to be a refuge Jackson says quote I will never forget being told that my gender was fake and invalid by a middle-aged cis man in a corset heels and garters, unquote. Lindsay also interviews another cast member named Kasia, who is a member of the RKO Army cast alongside Jackson in New York. Kasia goes on to say, quote, I had people calling me a cunt, saying I was a blight to society, threatening to sue me, threatening to try to get me kicked off my cast, spreading gossip about me, unquote,

when they attended a 2016 Rocky Horror Convention. And so whenever an allegation would come forward about a Rocky Horror cast member, quote, Kassia, already familiar with potential repercussions, was ready to support them and help call out their abusers. Although Jackson and Kassia say they have faced backlash from name-calling to threats of legal action for turning a spotlight on predators who use Rocky Horror as a hunting ground, they have also been met with gratitude and support from the community. Quote, not everyone in the cast is as loud about this as we are, says Kassia, but everyone cares a lot about this issue and what we are trying to do,

unquote. So even within the Rocky Horror community, there has been a fair amount of pushback in recent years to be more accepting. And I think that a lot of this comes up in the 70s-ness that this movie is routed in, in terms of just seeking consent and considering the age of audience members and homophobia and transphobia that just spiral out. Yeah, I mean, I think the three of us watched it

last night, and I think, I mean, we were all pretty taken. Because I would say last night was probably one of the first times I watched, watched just the movie as a movie. Not that I would have been making this call 10 years ago, but seeing the scene where... The two scenes in a row where Frank and Ferder just pulls a Revenge of the Nerds

to sleep with both of them is really gross. It's really gross. I think you're right. There's something a little bullyish to it. Everything you're describing it's just these bully undertones. I don't know that I think you're right in saying

those things, they exist within the film to some extent. Right. It. Yeah. It's interesting. I mean, there's definitely a lot of discussion to be had. And it is such a vast cult following that it's from region to region, I'm sure, that the following around it differs. But it was interesting to... I mean, I feel like it is generally painted as like such a friendly and all-encompassing, you know, open space. And then to hear that, like, as we found out so many times, that

even these spaces that were supposedly designed with openness in mind have this insidious nature to them. Yeah, it's a thing. It sucks. Well, speaking of, the director, or the creator. Yes, let's talk about that. Creator Richard O'Brien, yes. Yeah, I mean, Richard O'Brien was on record fairly recently, I think within the last two months, as saying that he does not believe that trans women are not women. And this essentially was the extent of his sentiment,

that a trans woman will always be like a man in a dress like it's it's all what I'm I don't have to write down because it's all like the better the you know the terfy best of but and he does say you know like I consider myself like a third like this third gender I think that's a real thing but like trans trans people are not a real thing and it's like wow way to like like gender is just as fluid as you need it to be and goes no further yeah like like I'm like I don't know but it's it was like genuinely disheartening it was genuinely sad like because not a huge part, but Rocky Horror was definitely a part of my, you know, kind of figuring myself, that journey of figuring myself out. And I think, you know, I was watching Laverne Cox talk about her, because she played Frank N. Ferger in the 2016 version. And she talked about how, you know, she's known a lot of people who, yeah, Rocky Horror was the start of their journey into figuring out who they were.

So I don't know. I think of it as like, it's like fucking Santa Claus telling you there's no Santa Claus. It's like Santa Claus shows up and he's like, I'm not real. And then he disappears and you're like, what the fuck? What is my brain supposed to think about this? But yeah, I don't know. It's confusing because I didn't realize this until very recently when I started doing some research about Richard O'Brien.

But I pulled some quotes from a BBC article. Richard O'Brien is a mess. Yeah. From 2013. An absolute mess. And in the article, he speaks uh speaks well i don't know pronouns i don't know but o'brien speaks about their gender identity and fluidity saying it's my quote journalism thank you new bit quote it's my belief that we are on a continuum between male and female.

There are people who are hardwired male and there are people who are hardwired female. But most of us are on that continuum. And I believe myself probably to be about 70% male, 30% female. O'Brien has also, and this is me talking now, unquote is what you say, right? Journalism. Yes, journalism. O'Brien has also identified Joan, as you said, as being a third sex and has taken estrogen.

So we're like, okay, he's gender fluid, and then he's like, but trans women aren't women. And you're like, what? Richard, what? So it's confusing. but trans women aren't women. And you're like, what? Richard, what? So it's confusing. To me, it just, you know, it speaks to this, like, intense inability to look, like, kind of

look outside yourself. Like, literally all, and I read in the interview, I read that he still uses male pronouns. So that's what I was that he still that it's still he still uses male pronouns that's what I was so that's what I was going with but like he's still um you know he understands it's like lack of empathy like he understands what's going on inside of him and but he can't like extend that to like anybody else which uh you know like tracks with just like other things

I've learned about him, namely his distaste for how popular his thing has become. With Richard O'Brien, outside of his very messy views on gender and identification in general, he just seems like a pretty bitter person. Yeah, underdone. About, like, I mean, and, but, sorry if there's stans in the audience, but, like, but in general, like,

he does come off as, like, you're ruining my creation. And he's always like, why didn't people appreciate me as riffraff? And you're like, sorry. Yeah, there's a, and I would recommend, because I think the production itself is fun. On YouTube there is a 2015 stage production. It's a lot of fun.

Like Stephen Fry is the narrator. But they interview Richard O'Brien halfway through, and it's just clear that he's disgusted with this and these people, and he's like, yeah, it's just this vibe of these people are ruining my brill brilliantly crafted script and it's like all right write something better i don't know what to tell you like yeah you were yeah where's your sophomore triumph it was shock treatment that was his fault that was his sequel to rocky core it did not make an impact as that reaction will tell you i have have not, I haven't seen it, but

it seems like people have generally argued that it is a more cohesive piece than Rocky Horror. Yes, I would say it's a more cohesive piece. I would say none of the songs slap. Oh, well then what's the point? So that's a little bit of background I had

about the state of the subculture. And then to everyone listening and to everyone here at the show tonight, I mean, I'm very interested in, and we were talking about this again last night, of just, like, what is the current state of Rocky Horror fandom? Because it does seem like, in some cases, it does skew older. And where there are more options for many for queer community now, like, where, yeah, where does that fandom stand? Because the New Art one, which I think is one of the New Art

on Santa Monica. Tonight, for crying out loud. Yeah, let's all go afterwards. Who can get a 50-person lift? It's been going for pretty much since 86. It's been going for almost much since 86. It's been going for almost consistently every Saturday night since 86. I believe they took some time off in the early 2000s

to do Repo the Genetic Opera. Remember that? Referencing all your movies, everybody remembers. But yeah, they've been doing it for 35 years or something. Right, and it's really the only movie of its kind

that has this kind of following, which is like a gigantic accomplishment for the piece and for the community around it. But yeah, I haven't been in several years myself, and I'm just like, yeah, where does it stand? And especially, are younger people still interested in going? Like, is this still an entry point for younger people? Cause I don't know if a 14 year old today would be like,

Oh, here's, here's the best option in my area. You know what I mean? We don't know. We'll find out. We'll get, we'll take some questions at the end.

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No, I know. I'm so behind. Katherine Hanken's thing. Oh, I'm really good at karaoke. What's your song? Yeah, what's your song? Oh, I love a ballad. I felt Bjork's music.

I just was like, who is this person? I got to hawk this slalom, Lugie. Not hawk the slalom. I absolutely love it. It was somehow Shakespearean when you said it. It was somehow gorgeous. Yee, my slok, you hollum. Listen to Las Culturistas on Will Ferrell's Big Money Players Network

on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Let's talk about the actual female characters in the film. Oh, okay. Well. Unbelievable that you suggest that. I'm so sorry. I'll go home. Let's start with Janet, I suppose.

Yes. As we already hinted at, she is basically inconsequential to the plot, if you can call it that. But we love Janet. We love Janet. I love Janet. She does faint once during Time Warp. She faints and she shrieks. And then she faints again when Frank and Ferder first appear.

Because, say it with me now, women be fainting. And there's also, when she doesn't faint and something dramatic happens, she then shrieks and rushes into the arms of the most recent person she's had sex with. Yes. So, that is another quality. Right. She's written as a fairly timid, like, oh, Brad, I'm so scared. Protect me type of female character.

But she does have an arc. She has an arc. Yes. Definitely. She starts by saying she doesn't like men with muscles. And then she does. Yes. And then she fully does.

Yes. She seduces a man with muscles who might be a baby. We'll talk about it. Oh yes. Here's what we know. He has muscles. But then she's only sexually liberated after she gets

raped by Frank and Furter. So we'll get to that. There are a few, and this is in no way defending the two consecutive rape scenes that are played for jokes but there are a few things I thought that were

like planted for Janet planted for Janet damn it and where there are a few moments where Janet is starting to have fun, like at the party and at the time where I think it's during the time where she goes

like, oh, this is fun. And Brad's like, no, it isn't. And she's like, okay. But there are a few times where Janet wants to participate and her fiancé, Billy Zane. My fiancé? Yeah. Get your hands on my fiancé. But where her fiancé is like, we don't like this.

And Janet kind of recalibrates and is like, OK, OK, I'm not allowed to like this. Does that mean that Brad is basically Cal Hockley and that Rocky is Leonardo DiCaprio slash Jack Dawson? And this is Titanic? Yes, it does. They both have red hair. And there's a ship.

There's either sinks or blasts off into space. Same movie. I'm willing to explore this. But yeah, it is hinted at a few times that Janet is more receptive and is, I mean, hornier. Hornier. She also insists on going with Brad when their car breaks

down. He's like, stay here. I'll go find help. And she's like, no, I'm coming with you. She pushes against him in very subtle ways, but she does push against what he wants a few times. But at the beginning when he says, no we don't do that, she

obeys. Yeah. And I would, no, we don't do that, she obeys. Yeah. And I would also say, like, you know, I don't necessarily want to give, like, the movie too much credit in this direction. But, I mean, I do think we are kind of supposed to be watching parodies of 1950s B-movie, like, cute teen couples. So, you know, I don't, the reason I don't want to give too much credit in that direction because I feel like at the end of the day it doesn't have much to say about them kind of like it presents them and it's like like I don't know

there's nothing to say but like it's like I do think we are watching like you know archetypes of like of characters and not necessarily like no offense Richard O'Brien maybe not the most like well-developed, three-dimensional character. He's logging in right now like, how dare you say this?

Yeah, I was reading some similar analysis. There was a piece that I'll reference later by a queer writer named Ronnie Baker who did a fair amount of research into the references this movie is making, most of which have not survived the test of time that we would be able to pick

up on them but basically the queer coded sci-fi movies that came out in the 50s and 60s and into the 70s that kind of influenced and made this movie what it was in some ways that are kind of left out and I think that the Meatloaf character is also supposed to be a reference to like 50s,

like, you know, James Dean biker boys. Yeah, he's like a greaser. Right, right. And then him getting like killed so abruptly is supposed to be, we don't know. But it's a metaphor for who knows. It's like basically if you're watching like date movie like in 30 years you're just going to not know what all these references are. You're like oh reference equals comment.

Got it. Oh you were saying about the Oh that was all I had to say on it for the moment. Okay got it. Yeah there's more to come with that one but basically that they're in B movies specifically there were some uh characters

that made more explicit challenge to gender that seemed to have influenced frank and ferder's character that have just kind of been because they were b movies or kind of like forgotten comic books lost to time but there is a clear history of like influence that like this movie didn't come out of nowhere that's a whole thing should we talk about those rape scenes

I mean we've got it at some point thanks for coming out tonight everybody love to just get a room of people and just be like, let's talk about those rape scenes. But we must. We must. We must.

So what happens here in this narrative is that first we see Janet in bed. Someone who she thinks is her fiance comes in and starts kissing her. And then suddenly it turns out to be Frankenfurter in disguise. She freaks out. She tells him to stop, screams for help, says, you tricked me. I wouldn't have. And then Frankenfurter says, stop it. Do you want Brad to see you like this in a compromising sexual position? Because he basically grabs her legs and like kind of thrusts his pelvis into her.

He definitely does that. Yes. Without doubt he does that. So like placing the blame on her. And then she says, like what? It's your fault. You you're to blame I was saving myself and then frankenfurter responds by saying well I'm sure you're not spent yet and then suddenly her attitude changes and then he is like kissing her

again and then she's like promise you won't tell Brad. And then they presumably have sex. Right. And this is supposed to be, first, a funny moment. Yes. And second, a moment that is supposed to indicate, like you were saying, Caitlin, a liberation in the character where this pretty explicit assault. Yes.

Very explicit. It's supposed to mean, and now she is open to sexual experience because she was raped, which is pretty clearly the opposite of what that is. Right. A similar thing happens in Cruel Intentions with the Selma Blair character.

Yeah. But yeah, basically, I mean, to break down this scene, she is assaulted just by the mere fact of she thinks that Frankenfurter is someone else. And then it's like the revenge of the nerds thing. Yes. Yeah, absolutely. And then she says, no, no, no, like denying consent.

And then Frankenfurter is like, come on, though. You'll like it. Which is just like a plan. And then she's like, OK. Consent is something that you can be talked out of. Yeah, persuaded. And then he's gaslighting her. And then suddenly she's into it, question mark.

It's just kind of like this idea of a no is just a yes that needs a little more negotiating. She doesn't know what she wants. She's just waiting for the right guy to come along and show her. Right. And the same thing happens to Brad. And I think that both Janet and Brad are victimized by these scenes. And the way that Frank and Ferder's character is written is enforcing all these

negative, negative, negative stereotypes as well. Yes, about, you know, I don't know exactly how we should be classifying Frankenfurter specifically, but, you know, just I will call him queer and, yes, just all these

negative stereotypes that exist about queer people in like, you know, sci fi and horror movies, like really up until like very recently. Yes. Absolutely. And also still. Yes. But just, yeah, like implying that by I mean, and again, it's like not made explicitly clear, but thatenging the gender binary in any way that frankenfurter is a predator Is a cannibal it is like as a murderer

And and then conflating it with anyone who challenges the gender binary at all Which is like a problem that comes up again and again and again and even in this extremely iconic movie it's very present oh no but i mean i mean like it extends to like you know buffalo bill this is like yeah for sure yeah it's also that these scenes are like campy rape scenes in a campy movie that phrase should not exist almost i know they're like it's rape but it's fun but like it isn't that makes it like all the more dangerous because the whole the scenes are played for humor and for laughs and it's like disguising full assault in camp and which i sort of am of the mind of like that is almost like the most insidious dangerous way

to do it that if you can play a scene like that and make people laugh with it that's a very potent dangerous thing to do for sure um and is not something that has been challenged as much as I mean it was genuine I mean I think that the first time I saw that when I was 14, I didn't know what to make of it. But everyone was laughing. So you recalibrate to be like, OK, I guess that's funny. I mean, yeah, I mean, I saw it as a like I I think I saw that scene in a very like, you know, 10s and 11s. I saw it at a pretty young age. And yeah, it just it just kind of like gave me this idea of like okay this is like

a normal acceptable thing my parents did not have been letting me watch fox at such a young age but yeah yeah um yeah so so that i mean no one comes out of those scenes i mean it's just like it's on every level it does not hold up no yeah no uh the most that it does i hold up. No. Yeah. No. The most that it does, I guess, is like sort of solidifies Frankenfurter as like bi or maybe even pansexual. So it's not good representation of queerness on screen, but it's there. So that's confusing to grapple with.

Yeah. Well, I mean, I feel like that sort of goes into the larger conversation about Frank and Ferder in general. So let's get into that. I mean, there's truly where to begin. Yeah, I guess I'll start on the lighter side of the conversation and talk a little bit about Tim Curry, who plays this part. Who kind of, I mean, we're in an era where so few people hold up as people. Right. Much less people worth admiring. And Tim Curry seems to generally hold up as a person which is great

Tim Curry so what I wasn't aware of prior to like researching for this episode was that Rocky Horror was a stage show first so Tim Curry had already been playing the part he originated the part of Frank and Furter in 1973 played it

in London played it on Broadway and then was one of the few cast members that also played it in London, played it on Broadway, and then was one of the few cast members that also played it in the movie. And so had a good understanding of this piece. Based on my research, this was not the first time that Tim Curry had played around with gender in his oeuvre. He had also been in a play called The Maids in 1971 where he played a sadomasochistic female maid named solange would love to see that show yes so tim curry already had a history of

having an interest in playing with gender uh in his performances and it still very much stands by the legacy of rocky horror and so this is a quote from O5 in an interview with Terry Gross, where he says that he views Rocky Horror to be quote, a rite of passage and adds the film is quote, a guaranteed weekend party to which you can go with or without a date and probably find one if you don't have one. And it's also a chance for people to try on a few roles for sides you know figure it out help them maybe figure out their own sexuality

unquote um and he's remained pretty involved in the rocky heart community to the point where he was the narrator in the laverne cox stage adaptation that was on fox in 2016 so yeah now let's get into the harder stuff okay well I I thought that because the only real serious attempted update at this material because it is in some in a lot of ways kind of unupdateable yeah a real example against reboot culture because it's like some material, it's just like it's so in the DNA of it, but this was

rebroadcast as one of the broadcast Broadway shows in 2016, and Frank N. Ferder was played by Laverne Cox. Yeah. And I know you've done some research into this as well. I have some quotes from her that I thought were really interesting.

Well, and I think this might be what you're getting to, but at least in terms of what she had to say about Frank and Ferder and their identity, she talked a lot about the fact that he as a character, as a person, identifying as

a quote-unquote transsexual, transvestite, that was kind of the language a person like that would have at the time the play came out or the time the movie came out. So it was kind of like with Frankenfurter, you're kind of looking at a character like bumping up against the walls of, you know, just of understanding that the culture had at that time. And that's how they were defining themselves.

And, you know, it would probably be a, you know, a very different character if they were written today. But I think there's still kind of the idea that, you know, you honor how they saw themselves back then, because that's, you know, we still want to just honor that and observe it, I guess, if that makes sense. Yeah, absolutely. I totally

agree. It's so, like, what stood out to me, because I tried to, like, go through a little bit of the, because it seemed like people, like, it wasn't, like, a huge event, but people enjoyed it. It was generally well-regarded-ish. Victoria Justice. Victoria Justice plays Janet.

Yeah. You know, like, we love it. Tim Curry plays the narrator. Laverne Cox is Frank-N-Furter. You know, it's like, I feel like as far as an attempt at an update, they did what they could. Yeah. But what I thought was interesting was when

Laverne Cox was doing interviews about this project, she was talking a lot about, I mean, we've talked about this on the podcast a fair amount, of pressure on a specific actor to represent their entire community in every part they play. And Laverne

Cox kind of spoke on this to an extent when she was talking about this because she recognizes in interviews that this is not the most up to date of the moment part of play but she's acting and sort of the pressure that she as one of the only prominent

trans actors working to always be representing not just her own work but just of everyone is an enormous pressure. So a few quotes from her that she said when this came out in 2016 was, quote, to call a trans woman a transvestite in 2016 is very offensive, but as an actor,

I don't play roles based on politics. This is just acting. I think of all the male-identified actors who have played Dr. Frankenfurter on stage over the years. I don't think any of them identified as transvestites either. People are confused about trans identity anyways, but hopefully

we can have a discussion about it. So that was just like a little bit of what she said when she played this role that I thought was interesting. I mean, you know,'s kind of what I get from the heart of that is why Frankenfurter, stuff aside,

is a fun role to get to play. It's a fun character to live in, especially for the big number and it's I understand the desire to be like, I don't constantly want to be like defined by the politics surrounding my identity. Sometimes I just want to like have fun in a role.

Sometimes I just want to, you know, like act and sing and like have play a big, campy character. And I think she has that. I totally think she has that right as a performer. Absolutely. Yeah. I totally think she has that right as a performer. Absolutely, yeah. So that was like one thing that was just like, ugh, like what an extreme pressure put on her that would be put on very few other working actors to represent everybody at once.

So yeah. I mean, and then there's the tropes we were discussing earlier, which was just Frankenfurter presenting a queer-identifying character as literally every negative stereotype I can think of down to cannibal, which I don't even normally think about. It also took me a few views of this movie to be like,

oh, they're eating meatloaf? Yeah. And not the meat, like, the man. No! That would have been way chiller but they were eating the famous musician did they put ketchup on them though that's how you eat meatloaf

I believe yes I actually believe frankenfurter puts ketchup on him at one point it's so it is very as well as portraying Frank and Ferder, it's very spiteful and jealous and vengeful and violent

and just really everything in the book. But what the arc that was pointed out by the writer Ronnie Baker that I wanted to point out that was sort of pulled from that legacy of B-movies and comic books with characters challenging gender that came before it. And this also sort of ties into, and I haven't done the deep research necessary, so drag me if you must,

but the place that movie codes were at in the 1970s were at a very in-between place where the extremely rigid codes of like Doris Day, I love being a wife and wifing rules like that has fallen away. And now there's more room for more challenging material, but still with restrictions. And Rocky Horror is kind of a good bottle example of that where we are allowed to love enjoy in spite of the fact that there's a lot of negative stereotypes being portrayed but but it damn people love dr. Frank and yeah they're like he's the center of the movie he's the most remembered character and so we're allowed to have this character front and

center as long as as the movie out, this character is punished for their transgression at the end, which is what happens when Riff Raff and Magenta come back and they zap him and he dies and it's very tragic. And that was sort of where the narrative stood in terms of how queer characters can be portrayed. Yes. And also, I think, I bring this up, Columbia dies too in that scene.

And I feel like a lot of the way specifically trans women are portrayed in media in general, but specifically in horror films, they are classically the villain. Sleepaway camp. The sleepaway camp like the Brian have a Brian De Palma movie with Michael Caine dead the seat of Chucky like and what like all those things kind of like come down to I feel like it's like it's not just the trend

It's not just like specifically like trans women are villains. It's that there is something I feel like if there's something innately like duplicitous and villainous about like women and that's and what and then and therefore like what could be like More like yeah that wants to take on those qualities because like if you like watch like oh like uh i'm gonna use uh seed of chucky and dress to kill as my two uh prime examples but there's a lot of examples of this of where it's like presented as very binary like the character has a male side and a female side and it's always in those movies it's always like the female side is the one that is like doing the killing um so know and I think that like plays out in the mood in here where it's not just like frankenfurter that is you know it's kind

of villainized for kind of messing with the gender binary a little bit but you know like Columbia is a you know is it's kind of like a hysterical like very like jealous woman. She's driven pretty much entirely by jealousy throughout the entire film. It's kind of hard to keep track of what her relationships are. There's multiple times where she bursts out and she's like, I was in love with you!

And you're like, what? Who are you? But she's another... I feel like she is punished for that as well at the end. Something I always think about, at least with transphobia, specifically towards trans women, is that it's also just misogyny in another form. And then just even based off of you talking about that I mean there's really not anyone who presents in traditional men's clothing who is made out to be remotely bad in this movie

where they're mostly victimized where with the meatloaf character coming out in the like traditional macho James Dean biker outfit hacked to death immediately. He is victimized. The scientist is also the rival scientist is victimized. Brad is victimized. And then it's made out that Frankenfurter, the characters that present female, whether that be Frankenfurter or that be Janet, feeling welcome to have sex while an audience full of people 30 years later are screaming slut at her.

They are more aggressively punished by the narrative. That makes a lot of sense. Oh boy. I mean, just to touch on a few of the other female characters, not that there are many, but Columbia.

No, sorry. Magenta is Riff Raff's sister slash lover, question mark. Like, that whole storyline is she's pretty sidelined. Like, there's a few scenes where she's, like, talking

to Columbia and then, like, but never really doing anything. Well, the only scene where she's like talking to Columbia and then like but never really doing anything or talking to Columbia is the scene that is the Bechdel test mind fuck of this movie where it's Columbia and Magenta talking to each other as they're

watching a TV screen of without clearly without consent Janet and Rocky. Rocky is a baby. He is. Born sexy yesterday, but a man.

It's true, which is a subversion that I... Sometimes people are like, I'm subverting the trope. I'm like, okay, so you're just hurting someone else. Cool. Good for you. Columbia and Magenta are watching an, you know, unconsented Twitch stream of Susan Saranda doing her high school soprano,

like, da-da-da-da-da-da-da. Touch me. So they're watching people fuck without their consent and making fun of them. And it passes the pectoral test. It doesn't, but we'll get there. But yeah, I mean, I guess my point is like, Magenta truly doesn't really matter to the story at all. I mean, I'm sure she's a beloved character,

but even when, mostly it seems like Riff Raff has decided, I'm going to overthrow this mad scientist, and kill him, and then fly this ship out of here. You know, Magenta is very sidelined in that scene. Right, which I think is partially because Richard O'Brien is like, film me. I'm ready for Meg Larson. She wants to be an actor. But yeah, I mean, I think overall the movie doesn't care very much about its female

characters and I also viewed Columbia being another person who sort of falls dead at the end of the movie to be that the only people were I mean Frankenfurter's character I would say is kind of inconsistent towards the end where towards towards the end I think that Frank and

Ferder songs become very sympathetic where you know he's singing don't dream it be it and is singing about you know like challenging things oh yeah I mean I will say like as a kid like no like very few like lines and songs spoke to me as much as like whatever happened to fey ray that delicate satin drape frame uh as i something like i started to cry because i wanted to be dressed just the same and like that lyric means like oh i'm not gonna tear up but that lyric that uh but that like lyric like that is so sympathetic towards like what i felt like myself going through at that time and like to

hear like it has expressed very love I think that is such a lovely expression of of what I felt and what that character is feeling and like I don't know I just I I yeah it gets very he gets very sympathetic at the end yeah he really does and in those last songs they're very beautiful and they're very honest and they are not the cannibal murderer of 45 minutes ago certainly and it's only then that Frank Converter is killed when he's expressing

his most like concise truth as well as Columbia who I think is a reference to a movie company being the only one to, I mean, female character, so shriek out in his defense, but she's the only person besides Rocky

who expresses upset at his being killed. And so she's killed and Rocky's killed, and because Janet and Brad and Dr. Scott are the bystanders who said nothing, they get to go on and live their lives. And that feels like kind of sending a, I don't know how intentional it would have been at the time, but it

does sort of seem to send a message of the people who stood up for the one character that expressed their truth, at least at the very end, go down with that character. And that fucking sucks! It sucks!

In my academic opinion. So yeah, those were my thoughts on Frankenfurter. Yeah, wow, there's just so much with this movie. I think that there's a little bit to be said about Brad here. I think one of the few things that I am like, yeah, sure,

about the live culture of the movie is shouting asshole at Brad because he is an asshole. I like that they're kind of satirizing the expectations of the traditional cis-het white couple of this time. It does seem like it's trying to be implied at the beginning that they're only getting engaged because they feel like that's what they're supposed to do. They're at a marriage.

Janet is like, oh, I need to get married next. And then Brad's like, uh, okay. That's the whole vibe of Dammit Janet. He's like, uh his that's the whole vibe right damn it yeah even like the choreography it's just like he's like saying it but he's like physically you like removing himself like it's like it's always like all this like darting away yeah and and and so I mean and I'm going to just kind of remove the assault scenes from this analysis because those seem to be kind of a thing unto themselves. Right.

That aren't dealt well with in this movie. But in general, Brad seems to be this character that is acting on what he thinks he is supposed to be doing. He is completely almost acting on like what the expectations of a quote unquote man at this time should be doing and Then we see him and Janet at the end when they're on statuified question mark You know and they're all they're all wearing the frankenfurter Why can't I think of the word course of course it in the fishnets? Yeah. Yeah, they're all wearing the the uniform Basically at this point and they sing about how they feel liberated and that

leads into Don't Dream It Be It and I do like the idea of where that arc goes I truly detest that a jokey rape scene is part is one of the main plot points that helps them get to that place but

taking I mean one of the I thought the more effective commentaries of this movie is taking that very tropey couple that's like I guess we're getting married. I guess we love each other. And then taking them on this journey and ending them with like Janet saying that she

has all this new sexual confidence and that she feels like a new person. And Brad doing that really kick that made me horny when I was little. Yeah. Barry Bostwick, so limber at 28. Spin City, honey.

Not that limber in Spin City. That full kick and then the shudder. But again, that also implies that the queer characters are there to further the straight characters narratives yes so there there's there's just there's truly every problem indeed yeah yeah brad is an interesting underwritten character much like uh every character in this true I don't know if I have that much else

does anyone else have any other final thoughts not really I mean I'm sure that there's stuff we're missing here you know when we were all watching this together last night I was like I love meatloaf

and then I googled meatloaf politics and now I don't love meatloaf and then i googled meatloaf politics and now i don't yeah sorry i propose we can all still listen to bad out of hell it's a fine album ah but yeah don't google meatloaf politics he is addicted to mitt romney yeah yeah he's like a drug to him. He mainlines Romney. Pure uncut Romney. Yeah. It's nasty and boring.

So, yeah, there we go. Should we take a few moments for some audience questions, comments, stories? But first... Oh, well, actually, I have a friend here, and she was a pretty active part of a Rocky... You were in the Rocky Horror scene, well, actually I have a friend here and she was like a pretty active part of a like a Rocky. You were in the Rocky Horror scene, right? Kate? My friend Kate Rath. Hi. Everyone give my friend Kate Rath a hand.

Like you have like a bi-coastal like Rocky Horror story, right? Yeah, yeah. Do you want to talk about it? Yes, yes. Yes, give it up for Kate. Kate Rath, my writing partner. Come see our show at UCD at some point. Yes. Give it up. Kate Rath, my writing partner. Come see our show at UCD at some point.

Yes, at some point. Okay, so I'll make this really quick, but I did go to the new art shows in high school

because I grew up in the South Bay, not too far from here. And I remember being like 17 and thinking that Rocky was super hot i mean like the guy who plays rocky is just like an icon in any rocky horror performance like and i saw him after the show and i i don't know how it happened because i did get like probably blackout drunk

which is also like a weird part of the rocky horror live show culture like they like want young children to get very drunk and it's very weird looking back yeah so i was like very drunk and i made out with rocky like i think just in front of the theater like at the new art like we didn't go to a bar or anything afterwards so i was like this was the highlight of my life i was like 17 i I got to make out with Rocky. And then he takes his wig off and he looks very different. And I was just like, this is strange. I'm feeling something different now.

You're a real human. This is not the same, anyway. Fast forward, I go to college in New York a year later and he's doing a guest slot at the college in New York like a year later and he's like doing a guest slot at the like Chelsea in New York like version of Rocky Horror and I made out with him again so

I made out with Rocky twice it's the the height of my sexual conquests and I think he's like a Trump supporter now so he like sucks I think he's like a Trump supporter now so he like sucks what is that? I think he's like really

he's really bad was it Meatloaf? it might have been Meatloaf oh no oh my gosh thank you for sharing thank you for sharing with Meatloaf

wow I do feel slightly guilty because like when I asked Kate to come I was like come tell this story it's going to be really fun and then I did not I was going to say like I don like, come tell this story. It's gonna be really fun. And then I did not also say like, I don't wanna be talking about rape scenes for like 45 minutes building up to it.

Oh goodness. Other questions, comments, any thoughts from anyone? Yeah. Oh yes. Oh yes, the person who has not seen Rocky Horror before. I just wanna know which role Alfred Molina should have played. Oh, thank you so much for asking. Well, I think if we're underselling his talents, which we never should,

he would play an excellent Brad. It would bring, you know, not to downplay Barry or his kicks, but, you know, could bring a lot more. You know, he could have brought a lot more to that role I think but ultimately I think that we should have had him playing Rocky Horror we really need a British beefcake in that role

and not an American model is there any I mean he also could have played River he could have played literally anyone in the movie nowadays he'd be like well I could see him as the criminologist, obviously. He's in Frozen 2. Oh, he is?

Oh, yeah. If I needed another reason to see Frozen 2. I know. Well, yeah, Alfred Molina's in it. I mean, as usual, any role will do. But I feel like Tim Curry has to play Frankenfurter. That's the only, like, normally I will displace any actor in favor of Alfred Molina, but I do think that Tim Curry will stay.

And Alfred Molina would not be like, I mean, as we know, he's our friend. He's our friend. He's not a diva. He won't be like, I can't believe. He would say, I'm just thrilled to be here. Yeah, that's true. Yeah, but sort of going off of what Kate was saying about the pressure to get teens drunk, that is one thing that I didn't mention in my discussion of the community.

There have been issues with the upside of the community is that everyone is welcome regardless of age. So you have young teens coming into the community. The downside of that is that there are pictures posted of scantily clad teenagers without their consent, alcohol being passed around to them, and a lot of sexual pressure being put on young people without any regard for their age. So just a fun thing. Meatloaf! Meatloaf! Pass through. There he goes! He's alive. meatloaf there he is

he's alive do we have any other questions or comments yeah jumping off from the discussion of trans women being the villains also psycho yes yeah dress to kill

is terrible and the complete subject change I'm sorry but spirit of Halloween Yes, yes, yes. Psycho is a big one. Yes. Dressed to Kill is terrible. And then complete subject change, I'm sorry. But in spirit of Halloween, I think it should be discussed whether or not Frank and Ferder comes, gaps. Comes. No one has ever wanted to bring this up before. People are usually upset and horrified.

Okay, so let's open the floor here. All right. Frank and Furter. When Frank and Furter comes, we usually have this conversation in regards to Beetlejuice, but let's open it up to Frank and Furter. The material that is coming to... I think it would be like...

Scab. No, well, we're not... The thing that bothers me is that people are like, it's not scabs. It's for sure scabs. But even for Frank and Furter, it's not scabs. It's for sure scabs. But even for Frank and Furter, Halloween characters come scabs.

It's canon. It's canon. But the question wet or dry? He's an alien so we don't know what his internal biology is. Who knows what kind of organs he does or doesn't have.

So, like, yeah, I think, like, I think he comes from a race where everybody comes scabs. Okay, great. Intergalactic scabs. Yes, yes. Okay, but are they wet or are they dry? Ooh, um, they're wet. Yeah. Team wet scabs.

Okay, no, they're dry. No, they're wet. As usual, I am always Team Dry Scab. Imagine the deck of cards being shot. Clearly, Beetlejuice comes dry scab. Thank you! Yeah, just like a machine gun. Yes, just one scab after another. And then Wet Scab, I can't say it enough,

is a laser jet printer printing a full-color photo. we had some other we gotta change the subject other questions other comments uh yes one more question come come on down just another quick thing at the beginning of the film when at the wedding scene where the car drives up and on the side of the car, it says, like, just married and, like, shaving cream. And right below that, it says, she just got hers, now tonight he's gonna get his, which is very icky. Yes. Yes, thank you for pointing that out.

I guess that's, like, commentary on how, like, oh, this is how straight people be, but I don't even know. Well, no, I think that, yeah how like, oh, this is how straight people be. But I don't even know. Yeah. I think that, yeah, like it is a comment on like, women want marriage, men want sex.

And also just, you know, that bridal party, don't put that much on the car. Right, yeah. Yeah. Don't comment on your friend's relationship on the car. That's not your job.

Yeah, I think it's more a reflection on the bride's friends. Yeah, yeah. I have shitty friends. To be like, make no mistake, this couple is problematic in all the expected ways. Yes, we are going to use this. No, wave goodbye. We're going to use this as a chance to subtweet them.

But I also feel like that opening sequence with the wedding and everything is like, oh, look at these fucking normies and their heteronormativity. But wait till you get to the castle and that's when things get cool and fun. And you get molested. And then also you will be assaulted. So, yikes. There's no in between.

There's no winning. Well, does the movie pass the Bechdel test? No. No, it doesn't. I don't think it does. There's the one question mark scene where we were all sort of like, might it? Yes.

The question is, is saying someone's dialogue back to them or in a mimicking tone count as dialogue like it's like it's like yeah being like is that kind of dialogue and that's the magenta Columbia scene that we alluded to before but ultimately for me

because in this scene it is two women with names talking to each other about surveilling a heterosexual couple without their consent and making fun of them. I say it doesn't pass. Right.

I mean, the line goes because they're watching Janet sing a song to Rocky about how she just had sex with Frank and Furter. And Magenta says, do you mean she? And Columbia says, uh-huh. And that's the only scene I clocked

where women interact. Yes, and then later they do sing a refrain of like, touch it, touch it, touch me, I wanna be dirty back and forth with each other. But that is them like, just shitting on Janet. Which like, passes guess, on paper, but the context is they're talking about heterosex with a man and a woman.

And just regardless, the fact that they're, I mean, that would be maybe our wildest pass yet, that watching people fucking without their consent and making fun of them somehow passes the Bechdel task. Like, almost regardless of what they're saying. Like, even if they're watching an unconsented feed of people having sex and being like, so have you read the latest Roxane Gay?

I'd still be like, I don't know that this passes. They're still doing something that's very illegal. Yeah. So, I don't, yeah. I don't think it passes. Yeah, it's a no from me. Yeah. Oh, well, time to rate it on our nipple scale.

Oh, boy. Zero to five nipples based on its representation of women, but all things considered, based on our entire discussion, because there is value in this movie like being kind of a gateway for people who might be questioning their sexuality

or gender to kind of have exposure to something this might have been more true in decades past because now there is more content available that focuses on queer narratives but because it does have such a big cultural impact but then also the movie truly doesn't really have any vested interest in any of its female

characters they impact the plot almost none and i'm getting there um the prologue is killing me um i have to say like one and a half i was gonna say the same thing is that too low or too high too high caitlin stop insulting the audience oh my, my God. This is fucking killing me. Say what? Stand by my decisions. Thank you. Okay, fine. I will never apologize again, and I'll stand by my decisions.

Okay, thank you. Thank you. Oh, my goodness. You were just yelling at her. You guys. Oh, my gosh. Everyone is killing me tonight. I'm still dressed as Brad. Okay, one and a half nipples. I'm still dressed as Brad. Okay.

One and a half nipples. And I will give one of them to Tim Curry and my half nipple to Susan Sarandon, but for Thelma and Louise and not this movie. I'm also going to go

one and a half. I don't want any comments. Thank you. I'm going to go one and a half. I appreciate and still you know, like, I mean, I'm glad that the Rocky Horror cultural legacy

exists. I think that it has a ton of value, especially in its time. And I think that it is like more of a region to region influence than most of the movies that we cover. Where, I mean, yeah, in some regions I would imagine that Rocky Horror is still an extremely valuable resource of community for people who are questioning or want to be involved in the queer community to go to. So I am very grateful for its legacy.

In terms of content, as we've said, it's all fucking over the place. It does not have a lot of regard for its female characters. It is not a very thoughtful representation of really anybody at all. A very white movie as well.

An extremely white movie. You only see people of color in background shots and they can't afford to bring the extras back in every scene. It is a mess. I am glad that it was successful. I think this is a great example of a movie we've

covered that paved the way for better perspectives because this movie had a $1.4 million budget and made 100 times its budget at the box office. It was extraordinarily successful. And so for all of its many, many, many faults that we've discussed, a movie being that successful and presenting queer culture in any way,

I feel like does pave the way for more qualified voices and more progressive voices to take the lead because when it comes to the capitalistic nightmare we live in, if something makes money, people will give those types of narratives more of an opportunity with different writers. So I'm glad it exists and one and a half nippies for that and that alone I will give one to Tim Curry and I'm gonna give a happy to Rocky because he was a

baby he was a baby and we didn't talk about that enough born sexy yesterday look up the trope this is the only male example we've ever covered of it. Poor Rocky. Josh. I think both of what you said was stated very eloquently about the importance of cultural impact of the film. And speaking as someone who can relate to that, to some extent it wasn't the most important

or influential piece of queer media in my youth my in my youth but it was still like it was still important to me and there for me at certain points that I agree with all that but I do think you know it really seems like this is a subculture for you know that I'd love to say to see stick around but also like a lot of subcult like you know subcultures right now need to be re-evaluated. Updated. Yes, updated. We can find a better thing

to... What's a progressive thing we can yell at Janet every time she comes on screen? Feminist icon! Yes, feminist icon. Janet! Yes, exactly. Watch the Bechdel. Listen to the Bechdel cast. They should all be plugs for your podcast. But, so yeah, so, and I think,

I like that there are voices within the space now speaking up, trying to find ways to, you know, bring, you know, Rocky Horror for as, you know, messy and complicated a piece of entertainment as it is, bring that culture, bring that community into, you know, into 2019 and beyond. And that's something, you know, because it would make me sad. It would make me sad to think that, like, Rocky Horror just, like, stopped existing. Because, you know, I did a lot of, you know, this morning, I did a lot of research, you know, or not a lot.

I read, like, three Wikipedia, I read, like, three articles online. I did a ton of research. No, but I, like, you know, found, like, articles from, you know, little, like, colleges, like, in the middle of the country. And for them, like, you know, from, like, literally,

like, this October, like, a couple, like, a week or two ago, talking about Rocky Horror coming to campus is this big deal, and it is one of two or three queer-focused events they have every year. In some cases, not even every year. So I think there is still an importance, and outside of maybe where we are, outside of our bubble,

there's still a lot of good the community can do, so long as it evolves. And I guess I would say I'm going to stay on the 1 and 1 half stars train. I'm going to say, I'm going to give half a star to Tim Curry. And then I'll give 1 half to Magenta and one half Columbia for the very cool, normal activity of painting each other's toenails. Yes.

Yes. Which does pass the Bechdel test. Yes. Because I think we're talking about this. Yes. The action. Painting your friend's toes is a form of communication. It is.

Yes. Yes. We do get passes. Yeah. Oh, goodness. Yes, yes. Did you get passes? Yes. Oh, goodness. Well, Joan, thank you so much for being here. Give it up for Joan Ford. Thank you so much.

Joan's the best. Where can people follow you? What would you like to plug? Tell us everything. Oh, gosh. I'm on Twitter and Instagram as Joan Haley Ford. I have a, if you're in LA, me and Kate have a show coming up December 12th

at the UCB Theater. It's our two-person sketch team, red and yellow. So please come see that. 8.30, UCB. Kate, which theater is it? Sunset. Sunset. UCB Sunset.

There you go. Yay. Yes, go see Joan. And thank you so much for coming. thank you to the ruby theater thank you to aristotle's here give it up for aristotle thank you to the staff of the ruby and uh thank you jamie thank you caitlin thank you for coming have a good night there you have it, our live Rocky Horror Picture Show show. Thanks again to everyone who came out. Thanks again to the Ruby for having us.

Don't forget about our final live LA show at that location, at the Ruby, on November 9th. We're covering Home Alone. Don't miss it. Details for that and other live shows that we do in various locations can be found on places like Bechtelcast.com, Twitter, Instagram, and Facebook. You can follow us on those platforms at Bechtelcast. Also, don't forget to check out our Patreon, aka Matreon, at Patreon.com slash Bechtelcast. A subscription gets you two bonus episodes a month for only $5 per month. You can also visit our merch store at tpublic.com slash the Bechtelcast for all of your merchandising needs, including some spooky designs like feminist icon Beetlejuice, Team Dry Scabs,

Team Wet Scabs, and his wife. Other than that, just go and do the time warp again. Bye. Hey, everybody. This is Matt Rogers. And Bowen Yang. We've got some exciting news for you.

You know we're always bringing you the best guests, right? Well, this week we're taking it to the next level. The one, the only, Katherine Hahn is joining us on Lost Culture East. That's right. The queen, the only, Catherine Hahn is joining us on Las Culturistas. That's right, the queen of comedy herself. Get ready for a conversation that's as hilarious as it is insightful. Tune in for all the laughs, the stories, and of course,

the culture. Don't miss Catherine Hahn on Las Culturistas. Listen to Las Culturistas on Will Ferrell's Big Money Players Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Daphne Caruana Galizia was a Maltese investigative journalist who on October 16th, 2017, was assassinated. Crooks Everywhere unearths the plot to murder a one-woman WikiLeaks. She exposed the culture of crime and corruption that were turning her beloved country

into a mafia state. Listen to Crooks everywhere on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm Gianna Pradenti. And I'm Jermaine Jackson-Gadson. We're the hosts of Let's Talk Offline from LinkedIn News and iHeart Podcasts. There's a lot to figure out News and iHeart Podcasts.