The Bechdel Cast - The Santa Clause - Part 1 with Grace Thomas

Episode Date: December 19, 2019

Santa Claus falls off the Bechdel Cast's roof, and Jamie and Caitlin must now take his place by discussing Disney's The Santa Clause with special guest Grace Thomas, recorded live at Buntport Theater in Denver. (This episode contains spoilers)For Bechdel bonuses, sign up for our Patreon at patreon.com/bechdelcast.Follow @GraceGThomason Twitter. While you're there, you should also follow @BechdelCast, @caitlindurante and @jamieloftusHELP Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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sponsored by Gilead, now on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts. New episodes every Thursday. In California, during the summer of 1975, within the span of 17 days and less than 90 miles, two women did something no other woman had done before, try to assassinate the president of the

United States. One was the protege of Charles Manson, 26-year-old Lynette Fromm, nicknamed Squeaky. The other, a middle-aged housewife working undercover for the FBI, identified by police as Sarah Jean Moore. The story of one strange and violent summer this season on the new podcast Rip Current. Hear episodes of Rip Current early and completely ad-free and receive exclusive bonus content by subscribing to iHeart True Crime Plus only on Apple Podcasts. Hello, everyone. You're about to hear an episode that we recorded live in Denver back in November. And speaking of live shows, we just wanted to take this opportunity right at the top to tell you about a few more live shows that we have coming up in January 2020. Starting with January

22nd, we will be in San Francisco for SF Sketch Fest at the Gateway Theater, and we are covering the movie The Social Network. And then January 24th, we'll be in New York for the Brooklyn Podcast Festival at the Bell House, and we will be covering Black Swan. And finally, on January 26th, we'll be in Philadelphia at Good Good Comedy Theater, and we will be covering The Sixth Sense. So a lot of dark and eerie movies on this little tour. More details and ticket links are on our website, Bechtelcast.com, and click on the live tab for all the information you need. The other thing we have to mention on this episode is that at this live show, we talked for so long about the movie The Santa Claus

that we decided to split this episode up into two parts. So this is part one that you're listening to right now, and we are releasing part two tomorrow so stay tuned for that until then enjoy part one of the santa claus on the bechdel cast the questions asked if movies have women in them are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands or do they have individualism the patriarchy's effing vast start changing it with the Bechdel cast. Hi, welcome to the Bechdel cast. Hello.

We're so excited. So we're in Denver, Colorado. Ever heard of it? So give it up for yourselves for coming out tonight. Man, I'm so excited. My name is Jamie Loftus my name is Caitlin Durante and we are the co-hosts of the Bechtelcast the show you're currently at

did you know by a round of applause who listens to our show and now for a moment of tension who among you does not listen to the Bechtel cast? No judgment. Brave, brave, brave, brave, brave. Each and every one of you not allies. Okay, thank you so much.

Hates women. Wow, incredibly you all hate women. Yeah, no, thank you for uh we we hope to convert you we're gonna what is that movie a clockwork orange where you just that's kind of what this experience will be like yeah yeah yeah yeah uh so if you don't know we talk about the representation of women in movies we use the bechdel test as a jumping off point to initiate a larger conversation and the bechdel test is a jumping off point to initiate a larger conversation. And the Bechdel test is a media metric created by cartoonist Alison Bechdel.

It's sometimes called the Bechdel-Wallace test. Yes, thank you. You're welcome. And a movie will pass the Bechdel test if two female identifying characters with names speak to each other about something other than a man. Can we demonstrate? Yes. Okay, so this is an example of an Academy Award winning scene between two female characters. Hi, Caitlin. Hi, Jamie.

All good scenes start like this. Caitlin. Yes, Jamie? Did you know that Santa Claus is a woman? Oh, wow. Now you know. Now I know. And scene.

It's kind of like that. The best part of the Bechdel test is it doesn't have to even be good writing. Truly is a bare minimum metric. And so few movies pass it. It's incredible. I think Ariana Grande should rewrite her God is a Woman song as Santa Claus is a Woman

for the holidays. I stand for Ariana, which is the most embarrassing thing about me. But she has, I think, the horniest Christmas album out of all of the... I mean, she has... It's for all holidays, but it's very... It's like, whoa, you know?

You don't think you're gonna to turn on this music and be like, I need to have sex immediately. But it really gets you somewhere that you aren't expecting to go. Okay. Yeah. Highly recommend the Ariana Grande holiday catalog. If you're looking to spice up a relationship, or if you're just out there looking a relationship or if you're you know just out there

looking for someone just just turn it off and people moths to a flame oh sure and i think most of that passed the bechdel test assuming the sex you'll be having is not with a man so which is always for the best true so you say yeah that's that's our that's what our podcast is and now we get to i think we've chosen what i think is indisputably a feminist text oh yeah it's really it's genuinely really hard when we're doing holiday movies because none of them are about women it's truly alarming um jamie the princess Switch on Netflix starring Vanessa Hudgens. But we already did that one. And then we're going to do, what's the new one?

The Night. Oh, The Night Before Christmas. But Night spelled with a K. It will be a classic. I like that Vanessa Hudgens has just been like, I am in charge of this genre now. She just is really taking, I appreciate the take charge attitude.

No one asked her to do it. She just was like, there's room here. And she's right. Her agents are probably begging her, please don't say yes to this other one. And she's like, no, I'm doing it. I'm doing this one for the story. It's so, I mean, holiday movies,

I'd be remiss not to bring it up. This is the time of year where the masses, they revolt because my unproduced screenplay, Santa University, still hasn't been produced. It's been, I wrote it in 2012. It's five hours long. Yeah. If you haven't, it's a musical.

But the best part is it's about Santa University, right? So a university where Santas go. Santas are of all generations. A very inclusive university. Here's the twist. Only one Santa graduates a year and the rest die. It's a great pitch.

It would be... People would lose their minds for this movie they don't just die they kill each other they kill each other i'm sorry they don't die of like illness they kill each other it's very violent you can and it can happen to anyone at any time you know it's really and the lead character is i think think, the most, it's just, you know what, a woman wins at the end. That's all I'm saying. A woman becomes the one true Santa, which is great, but then also, she has to be killed at the end of the next year.

Because that's how Santa University works. Anyways, that's the movie we're discussing today. Close. Very close. The classic we're discussing today is the Santa Claus 94 yep Tim Allen vehicle

yes very successful clap it up if you have seen this movie before and a round of applause for those of you who've not seen the movie

wow oh this has never happened I've not seen the movie. Wow. Oh. Where other people are like, I've not listened to the Bechdel cast, but I've seen this. Everyone, we were just talking about in the lobby that I think that most people who've seen this movie, whether they like it or not,

like, it's a movie that is very hard to avoid. That's true. Everyone has seen it. It's a feminist text. I mean, clearly. Let's bring out our guest to join our conversation about this feminist text. She's a Denver legend. She is. She's a very funny comedian.

She's written for Clickhole. Give it up for Grace Thomas! Hello. What's up for Grace Thomas. Hello. What's up? Thanks for being here. I'm glad the microphone was on the chair and not the floor. It wouldn't have been down that far. So, Grace, tell us about your history relationship with the Santa Claus.

Yeah. history relationship with the santa claus yeah well every time i've seen the santa claus movies for the first time someone has died oh well like later i saw the first one with my i was gonna say what is this santa university i saw the first one and the second one with my dad. And then he died a year after the second one. Coincidence? I think not. Then I saw the third one with my cousin. And she died this past summer. Oh, I'm sorry for all your losses.

It's fine. I'm joking about it. And I think in a deep state sense, it's certainly all connected. I think it's definitely connected in a deep state sense. I question why I haven't been compensated. It really does make you think. Okay, so you've watched them, the movie? You've seen all

three? I've seen all three, yes. Has anyone else here seen all three? I've seen all three, yes. Has anyone else here seen all three? Oh, wow. This is a powerful mythos. This is more powerful than I could have imagined. We have not seen... I think I've seen all three at various... I couldn't speak to all

three, but Grace, you can speak to all three. I certainly can. Yeah. I just re-watched santa claus too right like two hours ago not by coincidence i had that scheduled months ago which and santa claus too is the one that if he doesn't get married, Christmas is canceled, right? Yes. But it is also the one where a copy of Santa Claus, a toy Santa Claus is made.

What? And then he militarizes the North Pole. Or so the movie would like to suggest. But really the North Pole has already been militarized. Right. Because in the very first scene, Santa Claus, like there's an oil plane going over the North Pole, checking for oil.

And they have to like make sure that this oil plane doesn't detect the North Pole. Because I guess their magic doesn't cover that. Right. In particular. And Santa Claus pops up and he declares Elfcon won. And Santa Claus, not the toy Santa Claus, Tim Allen, real Santa Claus,

is in full military regalia. With medals and one of those floppy hats. The whole thing. They were waiting for this day. They already had, the pieces were in place, you know. It's like how people say like Jimmy Carter was anti-war. Well, he didn't.

No, we've been waiting to talk about Jimmy Carter on the cast for a really long time. This is important. It's not like he melted down the takes, you know? They were still there. So wait, it's Elfcon 1? It's Elfcon 1. It's okay.

The oil plane just keeps going. And then flash forward a month later, there's this toy Santa. He's made all these toy soldiers. And he's going to attack all the world with coal. Oh. Oh. For all the naughty people. And this came out in 2002.

Right. OK. Which is important. And I think it's eerily prescient, considering that the Iraq War was declared. Right. Right. Nary a few months later.

This is like, Christmas 2002 is just long enough for it to be post 9-11 to be like we have to get into production right now exactly

that is alarming it is a post 9-11 Santa Claus movie yeah do they have like the alert color system

it does yes Elfcon 4 is green It does, yes. Elfcon 4 is green and then it goes yellow, orange, red. And red is Elfcon 1. I think it's good

they made this film. I don't know. I mean, this movie I'm pretty sure ended that war, didn't it? Well, I mean, as a child, I don't think I would have been prepared for the war in Iraq if I hadn't seen the Santa Claus show. The morning that war was declared,

my mom woke me up at like 5 a.m. and was like, honey, we're at war. And you were like, what do you mean war? I already knew. And she's like, well, it's kind of like the Santa Claus 2. Exactly like the Santa Claus 2. You're like, oh, well, then the Santa Claus will get married and the conflict will be resolved, I'm pretty sure.

Okay, and then Santa Claus 3, Martin Short is Jack Frost, and that's all I remember. Yeah, and Santa Claus 3 is called the Santa Claus 3, the Escape Clause. Oh, my, oh. Okay. And it's a very controversial entry into the canon because it's revealed in the Santa Claus 3 that the elves have just been gaslighting him the whole time.

Wait, how so? They've been telling Santa Claus for years that he's locked into Santa Claus. In the first movie, they're like, okay, you signed the contract, that's it, you're Santa. Yeah, right. But it turns out in the Santa Claus 3, the escape clause, if Santa Claus holds the snow globe that...

Bernard? That David Krumholz gave. Yeah, Bernard gave to Charlie in the first movie. If he holds it and says, I wish I was never Santa Claus. Time reverses. It's a time travel for me? He's never Santa Claus.

So you could just undo the whole canon. Yeah. It's that simple. I would revolt. I would like, how do you say that? The Szechuan sauce style revolt. Oh.

The whole, I would be like, this doesn't make any sense. Yes. Okay. But is it a good movie? Um. You know, I went to it with my uncle,

and I hadn't seen him in years, so it did a positive thing. That's good. One of my favorites, so we were talking about this backstage, but the budgets for the Santa Claus movies are extremely in flux, where the first Santa Claus movie that we're discussing today is stupidly successful it has a 22 million dollar

budget and it makes almost 200 million dollars which is why everyone has seen it by law right so the second one they're like all right people want this. They triple the budget. It gets $66 million, mostly for the military, I would imagine. They spend so much time in the North Pole. That one maybe doesn't do as well, but it still triples its budget. But, you know, they're like, okay. And then the third one the escape clause has an 11 million dollar budget and that's the last entry into the canon yeah for now for now

you're right you're right you're right me is it really doesn't have much of an extended universe no very contradictory novels so long story short you're very into the santa claus yeah i'm pretty much into any movie i saw with my dad before he died fair pretty much fair okay and then you and you have the most comprehensive knowledge and i think a power yeah i'm an oracle yes when it comes to the Santa Claus movie. All right, well, we're so glad to have your expertise here. I have a giant book that I've written all of this down there in a language only I can understand. Chris is just the funniest person to ever meet.

Oh, my gosh. Caitlin, what's your history with this movie? Yeah, fucking follow that i grew up with this movie as a child it came out when i was eight and i watched it a lot from probably ages like eight to ten and then i haven't seen it since how about you jamie i've seen this movie a lot of times i think i was too little to see it when it came out but I've seen all three of them I think I've only seen the second one maybe five times and the third one

just the once I've seen this one so many times can I ask you two one quick question? of course did you ever see it with someone who died later? or is it just Grace? ever see it with someone who died later or is it just grace

it may in fact be but i think to maybe make you feel more comfortable i would kill my brother okay that's reason just to can i ask the audience if they've seen it? Have you all seen it with anyone who died later? Yes. The curse is real. Your dad? That's great. A good connection. We'll talk later. I really liked this. It was one of my favorite holiday movies growing up.

I had a very nasty, crush on bernard the elf hi right bernard the elf you're like white man with dreads i shouldn't right and then yet i like a moth to the flame i do i keep going back i keep going back to him i was looking for like an oral history in this movie i'm like who was the one that was like white guy with dreads, right? Like, it's just nothing about the character demands that. I would be shocked if it was written into the script. And yet there he is.

And I was like, well, I was really hot for Bernard. And my mom, I remember that Grace and I were talking about this earlier. I saw the first two. I definitely saw the second one in theaters. I remember going. Because it was, I think, think an eight year lapse between the first and the second and the first one uh charlie is like he's like you know seven or eight he's like he's cute little kid with a bowl cut and my mom did that horrible thing that moms occasionally do where he was like

a teenager and my mom leaned over to me at the movie theater and was like wow right handsome young man he's becoming like she was just trying to force the narrative maybe because she was like please stop jerking off to bernard she was really pushing the charlie but i wouldn't be tricked and i would still let Bernard go down on me I think Bernard looks very non-binary in my opinion I think he looks like a he-him lesbian

an NB icon for sure I just want to bring them home Bernard is who I just want to know hashtag who decided the dreads we'll never know but yeah I really like this movie

do you think that Bernard just got the like David Krumholz just got the last wig they had all the others got they're like this is how it works at a movie set if you come late you get the last wig okay this is what you get and a movie set. If you come late, you get the last wig, okay? This is what you get.

And the worst part is, it's canon now. Yeah. Because in the sequels, he also has the dressy. Oh, no. They didn't need to be like, and eight years later, he still has dressy. Wait, so if he's in the sequel, in this world, the elves are children and they don't age,

but he would have aged like eight years. They do age, though. That's the thing. That's what angers me so much. Well, they age very slowly. They do, but Curtis in the third movie, I think, is played by the same. Curtis is the second elf. He's a kid in the first one, right?

Yeah. He keeps coming back? I think it's the same actor in the third movie. Wow, good for him. But like in the first movie, Judy's like, I'm 1200 years old. And then Tim Allen hits on her. Yes.

First of all, it's one of the grossest scenes. You're just like, who is this for? Because she's played by a child and it's scary like oh 15 like nine like yeah i remember when i was a little kid and i first saw that movie i remember seeing that scene to be like oh my god i hope they get married this is the start of a wonderful love story. And people say media doesn't influence you.

It is wild that Tim Allen full on flirts with a child. Yeah, and in my memory, when I hadn't seen it for a while, I thought she was an adult. I thought she was like the one adult. And then you see it again, and she's the youngest of them all. Yeah. It's really horrible.

Couldn't have been more of a child. It's frightening. It's pretty alarming. Well, should I do the recap? Yes, this is going to be, I mean, there's so much feminist lore to discuss in this movie that. Hi, everyone.

Hi, I'm about to do the recap, but before I do, I just had to sneak backstage in the middle of the show, because I'm just so excited to tell you about Casper. I hope Jamie doesn't mind that I just left her out there. But I again, simply have to tell you about Casper, a sleep brand that makes expertly designed products to help you get your best rest one night at a time. Now, most people spend one third of their life sleeping, so you should be comfortable when you sleep if that's 33.3333 repeating percent of your life, right? Which is why Casper products are cleverly designed to mimic human curves, providing supportive comfort for all kinds of bodies.

The original Casper mattress combines multiple supportive memory foams for a quality sleep surface with the right amounts of both sink and bounce. It also has a breathable design that helps you sleep cool and regulates your body temperature throughout the night. You know what, I'll tell you one thing. If Charlie had been sleeping on a Casper mattress, he would not have woken up when there arose such a clatter with Santa clamoring around on his roof. He would have slept straight through it because he would have been so comfortable sleeping on his Casper mattress. Casper also offers a wide variety of other products like pillows and sheets to ensure an overall better sleep experience. And Casper offers affordable prices, free shipping in the US and Canada, and hassle-free returns if you're not completely satisfied. That's right,

you can be sure of your purchase with Casper's 100-night risk-free sleep on it trial. So sleep through Santa visiting your house this holiday season on a Casper mattress and get $100 towards select mattresses by visiting casper.com slash tbc and using tbc at checkout. Terms and conditions apply. Again, that's $100 toward select mattresses by visiting casper.com slash TBC and using promo code TBC at checkout. Okay, now I got to get back to the show. So here I come. All right, so here we go. It christmas time that's what i wrote good start good start thank you uh we meet scott calvin two first names suspicious right we don't never trust a man with two first names jack ryan also tim allen has tim allen has two first names right and he's sus as hell. Yeah. What does that show you?

Ugh. He works at a toy company in the sales department, I think. Mm-hmm. He is divorced. He and his ex-wife. His ex-wife. His ex-wife. Laura.

Laura. I was writing her name as Linda in all of my notes because I feel like that's such a common his wife name that I just phoned it in. And I was like, honestly, I was pretty close. Yeah. Laura, though. I think they call her both.

And then they just break and they look to camera like, you get the idea. We're not going to tell you what her job is. Right. You're just... So they have a son together, Charlie, who spends Christmas Eve with Scott because his mom and new husband, Neil.

Neil, Judge Reinhold. They're having dinner or something, and Charlie's not invited. In some of the most, I think, of my childhood, some of the most effective in movie marketing of all time when they go to Denny's. Because there were no Denny's near where I grew up and I was asking my parents for years,

what is Denny's? Can we go? And then it was like a big deal when we finally got to go to a Denny's. And it's so horrible. It's horrible. Okay, listen. Excuse me. The 2468 menu, are you kidding?

Have you ever been to a Perkins? Okay, no. Denny's can kick Perkins' ass any day. I've never been to a Perkins. Wait, when I knew, okay, the moment where I'm like, you know what, I'm doing okay in life, is when I would go to Denny's and be like, I'm going to get off the 2468. I'm gonna get off you know the off the 2468 I'm

like I'm gonna go I'm gonna go off the six menu I was like I'm a millionaire what I think the audience should know is that Jamie you and I go to Denny's together a lot a lot and it was no but I was so like I was so excited to go to Denny's and then I on the rewatch I was like oh they really were going for broke on this Denny's endorsement. Tim Allen leans into the car and he's like, it's an American institution, Denny's. And then they have a horrible time. I would like to push back on that for a second.

Because not only does the Denny's hardly have anything left. That's true. Charlie goes in there. They want eggnog. But it's so busy. They don't have it. And Charlie doesn't enjoy his time at all. No.

So if the bigwigs at Disney were trying to promote Denny's with this film, they did a horse shit job. It worked for you. I was like, I have to go for 14 years after that. Honestly, I think it worked for me because I really wanted to go to Denny's for a long time too and my mom would refuse. Because again, Perkins was an option. Yeah.

But they go to Denny's and it's great. It's great. Yeah. And we love Denny's here in the Bechtel Castle. We stan Denny's. Someone's going to tweet at us and be like, Denny's is problematic. I'm like, we stan Denny's someone's gonna tweet at us and be like Denny's is problematic I'm like no we know

everything's the worst Denny's is cancelled I take it back okay so Scott is not the most

invested parent he like puts in a little effort he burns the turkey they go to the Denny's iconic when he burns the turkey yes

yes I feel like there's a in a mythical way yeah turkey. They go to the Denny's. Iconic when he burns the turkey. Yes. I feel like there's a... In a mythical way. It really speaks to me on a primal level. Lightning on fire again and again. I would watch a 10 hour loop of extinguishing the turkey. I think it almost suggests that maybe there was

mischief afoot. And some force was setting him up. Do you think that Santa Claus targeted Scott Calvin? He's like, I'm over this job. I don't want to do it anymore. 100% I think that came out. This is just 100%. Any person with the initials SC,

they're like, they're on notice. Sarah Connor. Sarah Connor. Wow. Think about it. Santa Claus coincidence I think two things one there's a shot when Santa's on the ground after he's fallen yeah and and Scott and Charlie are trying to figure out what to do. And there's just one shot, which doesn't look like any of the other shots in the film. It's like this weird, I went to film school.

Oh, too quick to go twice. I'd just like to say briefly that I didn't graduate, but I attended briefly. So if you didn't, then that must mean you didn't go twice to film school. I don't like to bring it up, but I did get a master's degree in screenwriting from Boston University.

I hate to mention it. Caitlin's addicted to flaunting her debt. I think that's beautiful. Thank you. I'm $20,000 in debt with nothing. Well, I've got some good stories. Yeah. You have this astute observation.

Yes, I have this astute observation. So there's this shot. Santa's on the ground. It's a medium shot. Okay. I'm familiar. Okay. She's in the weeds.

There's something else that's weird about it, but I don't know what it is. But it looks weird. Oh, okay. That's all I got. Medium shot is the term I was prepping everyone for that's the whole observation by telling them I went to film school but what happens in it

in the mise-en-scene oh the mise-en-scene yeah the mise-en-scene oh the mise-en-scene the mise-en-scene the mise-en-scene Santa like raises his hand for a moment and goes

oh yeah very knowingly I wrote that down I'm like was that the last thing he did before he died yes and so I think it suggests that he chose to vanish like I think it suggests

that he it was his choice and Caitlin caitlin brought up something excellent on the drive here which is that we learn in the santa claus too although i guess we learned in the santa claus three that none of it matters but in the santa claus too an additional clause is presented that unless you have a his wife christmas is canceled which means that uh the santa who falls off the roof and dies in the beginning of this movie would have probably had a Christmas is canceled which means that the Santa who falls off the roof and dies

in the beginning of this movie would have probably had a his wife and where did she go where did she go what happened

did she is her life force tied to Santa and then she also died in that very moment Sarah or

think about it I like I think her name is Sandra Claus and she either died in that moment or

she just gets like ousted they're like your husband's dead you're not welcome here anymore and they like ban her from the North Pole we don't know though

where there should be an extended universe and we should get a spin off about Sandra Claus that's what I'm saying yes Grace is available yeah I'm really available There should be an extended universe and we should get a spin-off about Sandra Claus. Grace is available.

Yeah, I'm really available. Sasha Baron Cohen. I'm just looking up a list of people. Stephen Colbert, think about it. Simon Cowell. Who else do we got? Clap if you're initials. Sofia Coppola. If you're initials in the audience

steve carell thank you does anyone here have initials sc you one person okay santa show yourself can't believe santa came to the show oh thank you for coming honestly so exciting um that's all ste... Steve Coogan! Alright, I'm gonna start. Oh, and finally, Sheryl Crow. Sure. Think about it. Santa Claus. She goes to bed with her monogrammed pajamas and then her kid comes up to her like,

wait a second. Sorry, what's happening in the movie? I don't even know. Clearly there's not much for us to talk about, which is why we're stretching. It's feminist. Tim Allen pushing someone off a roof is feminist. Well, you know, I'm still trying to process

something you said earlier, I have to say. Oh, what? You two were making fun of people with two first names. And I would just like to quickly remind you that my name is Grace Thomas. Oh. Oh. I'd like to quickly remind you that my name is Grace Thomas. And I'm not some yeehaw dipshit.

I went to film school as we previously established, and I demand some respect. You and Jack Ryan have my eternal respect. I'm so sorry, Queen. Is Jack Ryan the show with Jim from The Office? Yeah, but this time he got a gun. All right, so back to the Santa Claus. We're in minute two.

Truly. Okay, so they go to Denny's. they talk about whether or not santa claus is real and scott wants charlie to believe that santa is real even though he as an adult does not believe in santa right uh now it's the middle of the night on christmas eve and there arose such a clatter on tim allen's roof and who plays charlie is like he's roof. And the kid who plays Charlie is like, he's really good in the movie. He's like, it's a clatter! He's so cute.

And then he grows up and my mom is like, whoa. But in this one, he's cute. Yeah. So Scott goes outside to check on the clatter and Santa is on his roof. He accidentally startles Santa Claus and he slips off and falls off the roof and dies. Or progress does it on purpose. It was planned.

100% does it on purpose. Yes. It's like how. Such a hot take. It's like how in the Dark Knight, Batman is trying to get Harvey Dent to be the new crusader against crime so that he doesn't have to do it anymore. And I think that's the same thing that's happening here.

Yeah, same vibe, same energy. I think it is. Probably a similar amount of people to I throughout the course of the film. So Scott reaches into Santa's suit and finds a business card that says, if something should happen to me, put on my suit. The reindeer will know what to do.

So then he and Charlie see the reindeer on the roof. They notice Santa's body has now vanished. Totally fine. Totally normal. And his suit is still there, though. And then a ladder appears suddenly arose such a clatter company yeah still funny still funny and they climb up onto the roof the sleigh is up there they both get in it and scott's like this is stupid but charlie's like that classic father-son dynamic and then the reindeer take off

with Scott and Charlie in the sleigh they go to the next house that was apparently on just the Santa agenda and Scott reluctantly puts on the Santa suit and the like magical bag of toys takes him down the chimney

which in some of the most cursed special effects you'll see in your life. They're just like, let's render Tim Allen barely. It's so scary. It's very alarming. I also did not notice until this rewatch that the reindeer are puppets. I thought as a kid

they were full on real. Amazing reindeer actors. It's 100% fart jokes for the reindeers. It's just close-up of Henson Workshop making fart noises. I'm like, yeah, that's what this, that technology was invented for.

So he goes into this next house. He puts toys under the tree. Is this the one where like the little girl is there and he's like, fuck off, little girl. He's like, fuck you. Yeah, and she doesn't notice that her house suddenly has a fireplace and it goes away. That is the second house.

The second house. I'm so sorry. Oh my God. You asked and I didn't want everyone to get burned online. Which happens to us all the time. The first one has a fireplace like usual. Yes. And the second one, how are we going to do this?

Even though it's an identical house. Yeah. They're side by side and they're identical houses, but this other one doesn't have. It just has a little pipe. Yeah. Thank you for your clarification. But Santa makes it work.

Santa makes it work. He does. Because I think the film very artfully takes you into its mythology step by step. You don't want to overwhelm him. First you see the bag levitate him, and then you see the transmogrification. Not all at once. It's world building at its best.

I mean, folks, these are the writers of Space Jam. They know what they're doing. Oh, wow. I did not know the writers of Space Jam. They know what they're doing. Oh, wow. I did not know that. Oh, yeah. They know what they're doing. They're skilled artisans. So, Tim Allen, what's his name? Scott. Scott Calvin. Cheryl Crow.

He and his son do this over and over again with house after house all night. And then they finally are taken to the North Pole where Santa's workshop is and there are lots of elves including... Yeah, they're children but they're a million. Yes.

And then this is when we meet Bernard. Ah! Did you... Did anyone else here also think Tim Allen was hot? Ooh! Because... Some people... I'm gonna just say right here.

I do. I do. He's in this movie. And also in Santa Claus 2. Santa Claus 3, the ship's sail. But Santa Claus 2... That's some good stuff. He's still got it in O2?

Yeah. And you know, I think that I kind of idolize him a little. Well, like, not Tim Allen as a person. But Scott Calvin. You know, we've been... Wait, the character Scott Calvin? We've been pretty critical, and the film

is pretty critical of his parenting pre-Santa Claus. But at least he's not a raging alcoholic. That's true. Which is pretty good. I think that's maybe a low bar for a father. I think that's a perfectly adequate yardstick. Yeah, you know?

And this is not to be, you know, like, I'm in recovery. It's like, cool if you're an alcoholic. I mean, you know. I'm not saying that you're a bad person if you're an alcoholic however personal experience pretty hard to be a bad parent if you're a raging alcoholic that's a tough one to pull off you know for sure also charlie gets two houses i had a two-bedroom apartment and a one- bedroom apartment. Those were my choices growing up. This is, I mean, this is like yet another, because we recently recorded an episode on Home Alone.

And it's yet another like upscale, like white family living in Illinois, specifically in November and December. Like it's such a specific vibe. Why are they always in Illinois? It was filmed in Toronto. Are people afraid of people thinking they're Canadian? Everything is filmed in Vancouver and Toronto,

and they're like, no, it's Chicago. You're like, it isn't. That's okay. Let's accept it. People are evading taxes. Right. Yeah, Charlie, something I, well, okay,

I guess we'll talk about it more in depth, but I did like about this movie is like one of, it was definitely one of the first movies I saw

that like treated a divorced family as something that was like normal and there wasn't a villain in the story. It was just like clear that these two people

didn't belong together and then the mother got remarried and it was like difficult, didn't belong together. And then the mother got remarried. And it was difficult, but it was OK. And everyone loved the child. And I don't know. I thought that didn't even register with me. It's like, oh, that is cool.

Yeah. And Charlie's not messed up from having divorced parents. No. Now he has a free therapist. Right. They're not even, you know, I remembered them

being harsher on Neil than they actually were. To tell you the truth, they are surprisingly light on Neil. There's like a couple of like things at times in the film

where he's like a little bit effeminate and that's the joke. But beyond that, and you know what? I mean, that's bad. Chris is like, is this the end all the time?

No, we forgot. But for the most part, it's fine. I mainly remember the sweater burn. I remember the sweater burn very, very clearly. And I think I just was like, oh, that must have happened a lot. It just happens the once. And Neil is not a villain in this story. Like, he's misguided, but he loves Charlie.

He wants the best, and he doesn't hate. He's willing to work with Scott. I don't know. I think he's frustrated with Scott's behavior, and I think that's reasonable. Wait, Scott is saying he is Santa Claus, and that is a tough pill to swallow. But if Neil had just used his doctorate

and thought for a second that SC... This guy's a doctor and he can't figure out that Scott Calvin equals Santa Claus? Unbelievable. Also, Scott Calvin hates mental health because he keeps being like, Neil isn't a doctor. He's a psychiatrist.

But it's always like the most resistance against mental health before you fully embrace like, you know what, it's time. The film also seems very confused about what a psychiatrist is. Right. Because like I've been to many psychiatrists. Same. And I've never had a psychiatrist spend more than 10 minutes talking to me about my feelings. Right. And theory around psychology. They're always just like, I will continue to give you Wellbutrin.

Right. Yeah. And I love that for them because I need it. Right? But yeah, I think that they thought that like a psychiatrist and a therapist are the same thing. And then also a therapist can gaslight a child and that's fine. Because there's like that scene with Neil and Charlie

where Neil's like, so you think your dad is Santa? And then like slowly begins to ask these leading questions that lead up to like, so what the fuck is your problem? You're just like, Neil, you're doing a bad job. You're doing your bad job. Daphne Caruana Galizia was a Maltese investigative journalist who on October 16th 2017 was murdered. There are crooks everywhere you look now. The situation is desperate. My name is Manuel Delia. I am one of the hosts of Crooks Everywhere, a podcast that unhurts the plot to murder a one-woman Wikileaks. Daphne exposed

the culture of crime and corruption that were turning her beloved country into a mafia state. And she paid the ultimate price. Listen to Crooks everywhere on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. To listen to new episodes one week early and 100% ad-free, subscribe to the iHeart

True Crime Plus channel, available exclusively on Apple Podcasts. I want you back in my life. It's too late for that. I have a proposal for you. Come up here and document my project. All you need to do is record everything like you always do. One session. 24 hours. BPM 110. 120. She's terrified.

Should we wake her up? Absolutely not. What was that? You didn't figure it out? I think I need to hear you say it. That was live audio of a woman's nightmare. This machine is approved and everything? You're allowed to be doing this?

We passed the review board a year ago. We're not hurting people. There's nothing dangerous about what you're doing. They're just dreams. Dream Sequence is a new horror thriller from Blumhouse Television, iHeartRadio, and Realm. Listen to Dream Sequence on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I felt too seen.

Dragged. I'm N.K., and this is Basket Case. So I basically had what back in the day they would call a nervous breakdown. I was crying and I was inconsolable. It was just very big, sudden swaps of different meds. What is wrong with me? Oh, look at you giving me therapy, girl. Finally, a show for the mentally ill girlies.

On Basket Case, I talk to people about what happens when what we call mental health is shaped by the conditions of the world we live in. Because if you haven't noticed, we are experiencing some kind of conditions that are pretty hard to live with. But if you struggle to cope, the society that created the conditions in the first place

will tell you there's something wrong with you. And it will call you a basket case. Listen to Basket Case every Tuesday on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. But before we get there, we're now in minute about 20 of the movie. So they're now in Santa's workshop, and Bernard, who I guess is like the head elf? Oh, yeah. He's like... He...

Disgusting. he tells Scott about the Santa Claus with an E and this is the point of the movie where you realize they came up with the title first and then they reverse engineered a story around it

that's when a bunch of parents in the audience who think they're smart go oh they figured it out but the Santa Claus Around it. That's when a bunch of parents in the audience who think they're smart go, oh! They figured it out. But the Santa Claus states... Made me want to be a lawyer. I'm a lawyer because of the Santa Claus. Didn't achieve that dream.

But you did go to film school a little bit. Never too late. So the Santa Claus clause states that if something happens to Santa Claus and he dies after he's fallen off your roof and you put on his suit, you become the new Santa. I think this is one of the most inventive pieces of IP ever created. Who, what sicko does sign up? If you kill Santa, then you're Santa.

That sounds like a horror movie. It's almost like this has to be a Grimm's fairy tale, right? It does sound like, yeah. And it gets scarier as it goes on because in the second movie it's, and now you must procure a woman. It gets scarier. And steal her away

to the wastes of the north. To live with you for all your days. Away with her dreams. Yes. Who does he end up marrying in the second one does he rob a woman of her career yeah

oh oh I mean thank heaven well what what who who does he the principal of Charlie's high school

oh and then later she becomes a teacher in the North Pole oh oh oh

a second act yeah a second act in the North Pole the things, okay. Well, oh. A second act. A second act in the North Pole. The things we do for love. You know, maybe she becomes the superintendent of the North Pole. Right. Which wouldn't be stopping her career. There's a lot of upward mobility. It would really be stepping it up.

Yeah. Also, in the third movie, we find out that, yes, all elves look like children, but there are also new elves being made that also look like children and go to school. Wait, made or born? Born, maybe. I don't know. I was like, are they constructed? They're created somehow.

I know. And it seems from the second Santa Claus movie, it seems that the North Pole doesn't have the ability to clone, right? Because if they had the ability to clone, they wouldn't have had to make a toy Santa. They could have just made a clone Santa. So that suggests that, yes, these child elves, these actual young elves, that they were born. They were born. And from where this is why we need a fourth movie i've been saying it for 14 years how are the elves born

how does it work i don't know what's's happening? I don't know. All right. So Scott, he doesn't want to be the new Santa. No. But it seems like he has no choice because of this binding contract. Right. And Bernard tells him that he needs to report back to the North Pole next Thanksgiving. And until then, he can just kind of live his normal life. Yeah, Bernard will hold it down.

Yeah. He's like, don't worry. January through October, I'm a daddy. Come Thanksgiving. You know, the more we talk about it, I think the less invested I'm getting in these films.

Because the thing is, a huge plot point of the second film is they make the toy Santa because Santa doesn't trust Bernard to hold down the fort for literally 28 days. That's the clock. That's how much time

he has to find a wife. So it's just 28 days. That's like the same plot as the Princess Diaries 2 also. It pretty much is the same plot. It is. It's like if you don't get married this month the country explodes. Let's get back. I'm so sorry. It's quite all right.

So let's see what's happening in the Santa Claus. Scott wakes up in his bed and he thinks the whole thing was a dream.

But Charlie insists that it was real and his mom and stepdad and teachers and everyone at school are all very concerned.

He has the pajamas. So he knows somewhere deep down that it was real. Right. But he's in denial about it. Right. He thinks he just had a weird dream about flirting with a kid. Little does he know that he flirted with a kid. That's the only night of his we see.

It's like, maybe this is a thing. That's true. So everyone's concerned for charlie and then some changes start happening i would call this the midpoint of the movie with my master's degree um like scott starts gaining weight his hair starts to turn white he grows a beard that like even right after he shaves it it grows back uh and he's looking more and more like santa claus which freaks out laura and neil because they think that he's doing it on purpose to convince charlie that he's santa claus yes which would be alarming right Put yourself in their shoes. Yes.

Well, their sweater, if you will. I mean, this sequence is, I think, one of the most iconic sequences in film history.

I feel like so many films have tried to copy it. For instance, Evan Almighty. Oh, really? And others. And others. My favorite movies. films have tried to copy it for instance evan almighty oh really and others and others my favorite movies evan almighty and the others really almost certainly so the the parents are concerned and they petitioned to get sole custody of Charlie and take away Scott's visitation rights.

But then Scott shows up to Laura and Neil's house, anyway, I think on Thanksgiving. After he has visitation rights revoked. Yes, because, you know, men be showing up. Places. Men be showing up wistfully at the pane of glass. At least he's not making threats. And again, at least he's not a raging alcoholic.

I mean, everyone, please, Scott Calvin is Grace's hero, so let's be gentle. And Scott really doesn't know what to think anymore. He's like, I look exactly like Santa Claus, but am I Santa Claus? And then Charlie's like, you are. And if you don't be Santa Claus, you're going to let all those kids down.

They're counting on you. And then he's like, you are. And if you don't be Santa Claus, you're going to let all those kids down. They're counting on you. And then he's like, okay, I am Santa Claus. And then Bernard shows up and is like, time to get to work, honey. And then they all leave. Because men be showing up. Because men be showing up. This is when the snow globe comes back. Yes.

Which is a conceit used in all three films. And the same plot happens where near the end end of the film the snow globe shows up yeah and it shows someone that santa claus exists like in the second film it shows his prospective wife that's like she she's like you're not santa you're just making fun of me because i told you i used to believe in santa oh that's so upsetting Weird way to make fun of someone. Right. And very reflective of how she feels about him. But then

Charlie in the second film shows her the snow globe, and as soon as she sees the snow globe, she's like, it must be magic. He is Santa. Oh, yeah. One of my favorite moments. And then in the third one, the snow globe is used to go back in time

to undo Santa. Right. But also it's used at the end of the film to redo Santa. So wait, is there time travel in Santa Claus 3? Yes. There's extensive time travel. And it changes the whole world.

Jack Ross converts the North Pole into a theme park. What? Unbelievable. Unbelievable. I got to watch it. I have Disney Plus now, Bragg. So yes, conglomerates. They don't sponsor us. We love to give them our money.

I also have it. So Bernard shows up, and then he,ott and charlie all leave for the north pole yes uh and now laura and neil think that charlie's been kidnapped because he's been kidnapped is why they feel that way and i didn't realize this as a child but charlie is gone for a whole month from the to Christmas Eve. Has anyone ever seen the film Dear Zachary? No. Oh, yes.

Oh, my God. Wait, why would you bring that up? Because. Oh, my God. Because I just want to say another good thing about Scott Calvin. Go on. Dear Zachary, spoiler alert. It's a documentary.

It's the saddest documentary I've ever seen in my life. Oh, my God. Dear Zachary, there's this baby, his name is Zachary, and his dad is Zachary. And his dad probably got murdered by his mom. And then the mom kidnapped Zachary, right? Yeah.

She sure does. It's so sad. She kidnapped Zachary and then kills Zachary and then kills herself, right? Yes. And a lot of times when a parent that doesn't have custody kidnaps a kid, then they die in some way.

But not Scott Carey. Yeah, not Scott Carey. He takes it. I like how Grace is repeatedly citing history's greatest monsters to demonstrate that Scott Calvin isn't that bad after all. It's not a bad dad. I'm having a panic attack.

You're not wrong. You're not wrong. You're not wrong. It's true. He's not a raging alcoholic. And he's not a murderer. He didn't murder the son he killed. He did murder Santa Claus. But he didn't murder his son who he kidnapped.

I would just like to say, again, I contend he did not. It was in the cards. Right. But he abducts Charlie for a whole month. Yes. There's an extensive police investigation. I feel like the movie intentionally doesn't call to attention how long he's gone for. I've seen this movie a million times.

Not until Caitlin told me earlier today that it was a month that I realized it was a month. Yeah, you were like, it's a night, right? Yeah. Because it's done in montage. I barely rudely insisted it was a night. Yes. I very rudely, and I'm sorry, Caitlin. It's okay.

And then Caitlin presented her evidence that it was clear that I was wrong. Well, because he's abducted right around Thanksgiving, on Thanksgiving. Yeah. And then is returned on Christmas Eve. Yes. It's scary. It's very scary. Oh, and then at the end, there's a very different,

what movie were we comparing it to, where you can see in the shot right before Scott comes back and is like, just kidding, I'm actually Santa, which is a great twist. But Laura and Neil are sitting at the kitchen table. She's clearly at the end of her rope. I'm like, they're about to divorce each other. is the worst thing that they they lost they've lost their child and then it turns out the spirit of christmas brings them back together and they're not mad they're not mad

they're not mad they're like oh charlie welcome back want to know an interesting thing i don't i'm not sure so so in the santa it's interesting that you brought that up because in the santa claus through the escape clause when it's kind of like this is the most specific um actually i've ever been on the receiving end i'm not even i'm not like i'm not even, I'm not like, I'm not, I'm not, what I'm saying here, what I'm saying here is that in the timeline where Scott Calvin never becomes Santa Claus and Jack Frost becomes Santa Claus. So in the timeline when Scott Calvin is never Santa Claus, Neil and Linda? Laura. Laura. But spiritually Linda.

Yeah, spiritually Linda. Neil and Laura, spiritually Linda? Laura. Laura. But spiritually Linda. Yeah, spiritually Linda. Neil and Laura spiritually Linda divorce. So in a world where Scott Kelvin never became Santa Claus, they do get divorced. No. Yeah. I honestly think that Laura's better off without either of them. But I guess I'm not as upset as I let on.

I think Laura should tell us what her job is and that we should be able to learn some facts about her and that her like her child's stepdad shouldn't be the one that is pushing for like custody decisions. Right. That I was like annoyed at Neil

where Neil's like it's the I am a doctor and this is the way it has to be. And I was like it's not he's not your son. You don't get to, he's not your son. You don't get to do. It's not your call. Yeah. And then Laura was like, I didn't get a board game.

And then they're like, okay. That's the only thing we know about her. As far as we know, that and having her son abducted are her top two problems. Another thing about Scott Calvin. If I may. Yeah, oh please. So in the second film. And don't call it a movie in front of Grace.

Do not call it a movie. She'll get very upset. Call it a saga if you need to. There's a meeting of the council of like of mythological beings oh i remember this yeah and father time notes that since scott became santa kids are 79 percent happier he's one of the best santas of all time so i think the explanation why laura didn't get that game is that the Santa before Scott was real bad at his job.

That was like Carter-era Santa. That was Carter-era Santa. I like Jimmy Carter. Sure. I just don't think he's a hero. And I think that his choice in Santa's really reflected that. Yeah.

I agree. I don't know if you all know this, but we're privy to some very explicit information. The president chooses a Santa. And that's a different clause. That's just a different clause.

If you shake the snow globe, it doesn't count. But technically, that is the law. Yeah. That's why Scott Calvin is kind of a bipartisan hero. Really? Because he survived, what, four administrations? Including that real loopy one going on right now.

Yeah, well, we haven't seen Scott Calvin since, okay, I'll push back on that. We haven't seen Scott Calvin since the Bush administration. Listen, Jamie, you gotta believe in something. I know. I think that all, yeah, well, I guess he came to prominence during the Clinton administration. He lasted through the Bush administration,

and really, you know, I think now we really need him now more than ever. I agree. See, he's able to work within the system. You know? There's something to be said for that. Yeah. He's changing things from the... No, he's not.

The thing is, Tim Allen voted for Trump. That's something we really need to... I know everyone's hissing through their teeth. But it's like we have to acknowledge it. We can't talk about Buzz Lightyear without being like, well...

It's not... You know what? I bet Scott Calvin also would have voted for Trump had he not targeted the Santa Claus. He was rich. That's interesting. He was rich. He's like a business market. He's at the very least fiscally conservative. Okay, wait. Let's clear this up.

Let's clear this up. Do you think Scott Calvin would have voted for Trump? I agree with you. If he hadn't become Santa, he would have voted for Trump. But I think Santa Claus like he became Santa Claus. He's have voted for Trump. But I think Santa Claus, like he became Santa Claus. He's like Medicare for all.

He's probably like, yeah. Well, I don't know. I wouldn't give him that much credit. The show's been going on for an hour and we were not even done with the recap. Well, we're at the end. it well we're at the end but yes we're at the end where uh they're they prep for christmas eve scott aka fully fledged santa now yeah and and he's accepted it he's accepted it he's embraced it he and charlie

are out delivering presents to the kids and then they stop at at Laura and Neil's house, but the police catch him and arrest him, which I totally forgot happens. Same. Totally forgot that. And I also forgot how the North Pole, like, dispatches this squad of, like, SWAT elves. Okay, elves with attitude. Yes.

And I think that's kind of a Desert Storm-y thing. Yeah, sure. Sure, 94, that tracks. I love when they're like, we're your worst nightmare, elves with attitude. I know I said that to my mom. It's like, whose kid was that? Why did that kid get to be in it?

I feel like they had, and no disrespect, I mean, if you were one of the elves with attitude, slide into our mentions. Certainly. Please come on the show. I'll give you a personal apology. But that, to me, had the energy of a crew member's kid. 100%.

You know every one of those kids has a degree from UCLA now. Yeah. Well, these elves with attitude break Santa out of jail and then they go back to Laura and Neil's house and even though he's kidnapped Charlie for a month like we said Laura and Neil are just like whatever but from their perspective they still think that Scott is like delusional right and then, apropos of absolutely nothing, one of the best line reads in cinema history,

because it's Laura and she says, oh my God, you really are Santa Claus. You know, that line wasn't even originally in the movie the actor who was the actress that played laura she was uh oh i'll get her name but continue so

she was just on set and saw tim allen dressed up as santa and the motion just overcame her and they happened to be rolling and that's's when she said in person, oh, you really are Santa. And they were like, we gotta use it. Her name is Wendy Crewson and she is in all three of the movies. Oh, good for her.

Well, we don't need to go into that. We don't have time. There's no catalyst in the story that gets her to be like, oh, wow, you are Santa Claus. I guess it's magic. It's Christmas magic. Magic and belief, Caitlin.

I'm so sorry. And then Neil apologizes to Charlie, which I liked. He's like, I'm sorry. I didn't believe that Scott Calvin is Santa Claus. I see now the initials. It makes sense. But then he immediately backpedals on what he just said,

and he's just like, oh, no, he's making us buy into this huge delusion. But then, a few moments later, Scott Calvin, who is a good Santa Claus, gives him the weenie whistle and the mystery date game and a soccer ball to Charlie, which I guess he wanted.

I guess he asked her. But right before that happens, the best moment happens, which is Laura takes the custody papers. And then she throws the custody papers into the fireplace. And she's like, there you go. You've got your custody back. And it's like, legally, he doesn back and it's like legally he doesn't it's it's mystifying that they were able to navigate the courts well enough to take his custody away but they didn't know that like oh you don't get to make that decision

right the law but i mean i guess it's all kind of moot because then he just flees to the north pole permanently yes so and that's the movie that's the movie that's the recap flying around and then everyone's like wow it really is santa we it's real it's all real and that's the movie the santa claus all right everyone that's the end of part one don't forget to grab your tickets for our upcoming live shows in san francisco and new york and philly and then also uh follow us on social media bectocast our patreon at patreon.com slash Bechtelcast. Grab our merch, all that good stuff. And stay tuned for part two of the Santa Claus. Bye! Kay hasn't heard from her sister in seven years. I have a proposal for you. Come up here and document my project. All you need to do is record everything like you always do.

What was that? That was live audio of a woman's nightmare. Can Kay trust her sister or is history repeating itself? There's nothing dangerous about what you're doing. They're just dreams. Dream Sequence is a new horror thriller from Blumhouse Television, iHeartRadio, and Realm. Listen to Dream Sequence on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, and help you pursue your true goals. You can listen to Sniffy's Cruising Confessions, sponsored by Gilead,

now on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts. New episodes every Thursday. What happens when a professional football player's career ends and the applause fades and the screaming fans move on. I am going to share my journey of how I went from Christianity to now a Hebrew Israelite. For some former NFL players, a new faith provides answers. You mix homesteading with guns and church. Voila! You got straightway. They try to save everybody.

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