The Bechdel Cast - The Santa Clause - Part 2 with Grace Thomas

Episode Date: December 20, 2019

This is part 2 of The Santa Clause episode with special guest Grace Thomas! Ho ho ho!(This episode contains spoilers) For Bechdel bonuses, sign up for our Patreon at patreon.com/bechdelcast. Follow @GraceGThomason Twitter. While you're there, you should also follow @BechdelCast, @caitlindurante and @jamieloftusHELP Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Daphne Caruana Galizia was a Maltese investigative journalist who on October 16th 2017 was assassinated. Crooks Everywhere unearthed the plot to murder a one-woman WikiLeaks. She exposed the culture of crime and corruption that were turning her beloved country into a mafia state. Listen to Crooks Everywhere on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. To listen to new episodes one week early and 100% ad-free, subscribe to the iHeart True Crime Plus channel, available exclusively on Apple Podcasts. Hey, it's Teddy Mellencamp. And Tamara Judge, better known as the Twats. Yep. You heard that right.

We're the hosts of Two Teas in a Pod. For all the housewife lovers out there, every week we break down every episode and give you our opinions. So join us as we stir the pot and get ourselves into some trouble. Okay. Maybe a lot of trouble. Listen to Two Teas in a Pod on iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Kay hasn't heard from her sister in seven years.

I have a proposal for you. Come up here and document my project. All you need to do is record everything like you always do. What was that? That was live audio of a woman's nightmare. Can Kay trust her sister or is history repeating itself? Hello and welcome to the Bechdelcast. What you're about to hear is part two of our very long two-part episode about the Santa Claus that we recorded live in Denver. If you haven't listened to part one yet, we strongly suggest you go back and listen to that first. And before we get into part two of the episode, we just wanted to remind everyone about some

upcoming live shows that we have. January 22nd, we will be in San Francisco at SF Sketch Fest at the Gateway Theater, and we're covering the Social Network. On January 24th, we will be in New York for the Brooklyn Podcast Festival at the Bell House, and we will be covering Black Swan. And finally, on January 26, we will be in Philadelphia at Good Good Comedy Theater, and we'll be covering The Sixth Sense. As always, more details and ticket links to our live shows are on our website, Bechdelcast.com, and click on the live tab and enjoy part two of the santa claus on the bechdel cast the questions asked if movies have women in them are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands or do they have individualism the patriarchy's effin' vast. Start changing it with the Bechdel cast.

You know, there's so much to unpack with this movie. Where do we begin? It's a feminist text, that much we know. Well, okay. It's on every list. Yes. I just want to mention there is a Denver connection because at one point, Scott Kelvin is talking to

Bernard the Elf and he's like can we take a direct flight back to reality or do we have to change planes in Denver and then we're like wow that's why we did this here why are you all clapping for the worst part of Denver the airport is the

worst thing the city has to offer I'm obsessed with the airport here i think about it at least once a week i i'm dead serious i'm i love i love the story about how the scary horse statue killed the artist i like everything if if on your way out if you have some very specific denver airport anecdotal scary illuminuminati shit, I want to know. I'm like, I'm consumed by it. You all laugh and clap now, but that airport's going to kill us all one day. And it won't be very cool and creepy and weird and quirky. I passed the gargoyles yesterday, Grace.

I passed the luggage gargoyles. I just... I would let someone kill me there. Okay. Well, the first things I... The first thing I want to talk about is... The first thing we see in the movie is Tim Allen.

He's receiving an award for his Do It All For You dolly, which, what is that? What is that? let's not even think about it for a second i don't but he has i forgot that he had a business partner he has a business partner one of the few people of color in the entire movie yeah she is a woman who starts to accept like she's like thank you and then he pushes her out of the way. He grabs the microphone out of her hand, interrupts her, and starts being like,

let's fucking party. That's what he does. I can't really defend Scott there. Right. I would say that it's possible it was a stage direction mishap. Okay, no. But probably not.

No, that's not what happened. He should have let her finish her sentence and given her thanks and then he could have leaned in with his stupid comment sure but yes i also wasn't lost on us sure wasn't and then shortly after that he's driving home he's on the phone with laura i think and he's lying to her because he's like oh man there's so much traffic I'm going to be so late. It got too lit at the do it all for you doll Christmas party. Gross.

There's like that well I was going to say there's like that weird comment that like alludes to like one of his co-workers is having sex with a secretary. Yeah your wife's not here. It's the co-worker that's dressed as Santa Claus as well. Yeah. Which is significant, I'm sure. It's foreshadowing?

It's really significant, but we're going to go into that on the Patreon version. Oh, good. Yeah, you can't get it for free. And we're going to be checking subscriptions before we get into that part of the episode. But he's lying to Laura, and then he pretends to keep this illusion alive of there being so much traffic. He pretends to scream at a woman driver who I guess flipped him off in his imagination,

and then he's like, oh, same to you, and that's not very ladylike. And it's like, well, okay, Scott, women aren't allowed to flip people off what do you mean i think the point here is that he is a raging misogynist thank you he's a raging misogynist not a raging alcoholic which is better I don't know my dad was both

so I haven't seen I'm far more disturbed by the other than him like yelling at a person who does not exist I'm more disturbed by the fact that he flirts with a child we've got bigger fish to fry I'm just getting warmed up

we've got bigger fish to fry I think that I mean again we we've got bigger fish to fry i'm just getting warmed up we've got bigger fish to fry yeah yeah uh and i i think that i mean again we we sort of touched on this already but the the divorce narrative i think is kind of interesting and then we meet laura we never find out anything about her let's not we let's find out about judge reinhold like we we find out a lot about Neil. We find out what degrees he has. We find out what his area of specialty is. We never find out if Laura has a job. Or has ever had a job.

Or knows how to read. We don't know anything. All we know is she wanted a board game when she was little and that her son got abducted. The board game is also like very like coded feminine mystery date so we learn way more about neil than we learn about laura which i think is kind of like i mean you could easily just write out neil and have laura driving

that side of the story but they just don't do that. Because even later in the story where Neil is the one who's the driving force between we have to take this to a custody level, he thinks he's Santa, and Laura is more like, I don't know. And I feel like it's almost she gets the illusion of agency in that scene where she's with Neil, and she's like, I'm not sure.

What's so wrong with believing in Santa Claus? And so she's kind of reticent and pulling back. But it doesn't matter that she feels that way narratively because they're already at the courthouse. Right. And he loses custody two seconds later. So it's like almost giving her the like, oh, maybe she'll get to do something. And then she doesn't. Right.

And that's all we know about her. That's all we know. And that's the podcast. And with the cops too it's like when charlie calls her from the north pole it's like they're like keep him on the line like she would not the fucking do that you know like she's not allowed to watch cop movies right it's like and then i mean you touched on this jamie but like scott calvin's allowed to be a single man but like they had to have her be like remarried or like partnered off with someone

else because god forbid we see a unmarried woman on screen if we if she if she was unmarried we might need to learn what her job was would hate that yeah no i so i mean she's just like extremely i mean these are from the creators of lola bunny so i guess like you know they're they're not was space jam lola bunny's first appearance i believe so yeah wow yeah the more you know but yeah i mean she's she's like it's it sucks because i don't think she's like a bad character i think that there are a lot of tropes that are avoided yeah with her that you see a lot especially if it's like a divorced woman you see people often go for like the shrill tropes or the like he's so fun and she couldn't handle it like or she's like using all of his money right like you know like

she got like a huge settlement or whatever yeah like just all of his money right like you know like she got like a huge settlement or whatever yeah like just kind of the basic stuff that you see a lot and the good thing it sucks because it's like nothing is really written in place of those tropes um but like it is clear that scott and laura and neil all very much care about charlie's well-being and that is like they're driving like she doesn't want to be talking to Scott but she will for short bursts right because she has to and like I don't know that that I thought was like pretty well done yeah I mean in there there is just like a we were talking about the Christmas industrial complex on the way over here and it is like a more so than

any other I mean there's the most characters associated, I mean, I think at least in American culture, with the Christmas holiday. And they're all, I mean, I'm grinched out tonight, right?

We've got the Grinch, we've got Santa, we've got Jack Frost, we've got, who else do we got? Frosty the Snowman. Frosty the Snowman. Scrooge.

That bastard, Scrooge. Rudolph. Rudolph. Rudolph. Bastard, right? We got Snowmizer and Heatmizer, right? What? There's no time.

They have the best songs. And also the only gay characters in all of Christmas lore. That's true. At least we get queer representation through Snow and Heatmizer. I do love Snow and Heatmizer. I do love Snow and Heat Miser. I feel like they're underrated. But it's such a male... Jesus, right? Oh my God.

The three wise men. We forgot. The other people who were there at Jesus. There it is. Jimmy Carter. JC, just like Jesus Christ. JC makes you think. Wow.

It makes me think. What if whoever kills Jesus Christ has to become the next Jesus Christ? This summer, Judas is in for a rude away. Anyway. So it is a very male-dominated holiday. And the movies, too.

It's like the most famous Christmas movies. This is one of them. Home Alone is one Christmas movies. Like, this is one of them. Home Alone is one of them. A Christmas Story is one of them. Three very similar kids. Like, basically the same area, the same background. Like, it's all, like, little white boys that you're supposed to, like, from fairly upscale families. Right.

That you're supposed to be plugging yourself into for, like, most movies in general. But it is particularly bad for for like this genre of movie i will defend there is a deleted scene from the santa claus where they do reveal laura's job oh really yeah she's an anthropology professor really it's in it's it's in the month where charlie's been kidnapped uh- been kidnapped and she she cancels she cancels student hours

what I only went to college a little bit office hours she cancels office hours for a day and the scene is just 10 minutes of her crying

in her office I can't you were saying this isn't real I was in the middle I was like she's lying she's lying

I found out a fun, my favorite fact I found out about this film, sorry, has nothing to do with women. Here is what it is. Towards the beginning of the film, a brief exchange between Scott and Laura takes place in which,

and this is from the original cut in 94. You can't find it now. A brief exchange takes place between Scott and Laura in which Laura hands Scott a piece of paper with Neil's mother's phone number on it Scott then says 1-800 spank me

I know that number in the United States the exchange was removed from all home media releases of the film starting with the 1999 DVD release after a 1996 incident in which a child from Steilacoom, Washington called the number, which turned out to be an actual working sex line number

and racked up a $400 bill. Now that you say that, I remember that. I remember that from when i must have seen it before they like cut it out but oh my god i it's yeah i guess if you saw it before 99 it would still be in there and then one kid in washington ruined it for all of us uh so anyways that's the only fact about this movie i was gonna say though that um i think like you said jamie like this movie subverts some of those like tropey stereotypy things we see in a lot of like children and family movies in in that like a lot of mom characters would be poised as like a

very shrew but she and scott are generally making an effort they're making an effort and she seems to be like level-headed and just like a reasonable person and we don't know anything about her other than that but and also charlie really likes and respects her too which i feel like is i mean especially coming off of like a home alone episode where macaulay culkin's like my mom is terrible like he's so he's a very furious little tiny person um but charlie is like he loves his mom he also loves neil yeah um and they don't like demonize the step parent coming in and he know charlie like knows all this all these this like psychologist lingo i bet if you try to dose your well buterin he'd be like oh yeah i can do that right he's eight years old but like

i don't know yeah the way the parenting was treated i thought yeah nice it was yeah it was fine it was i would say almost unrealistic yeah yeah do parents really care that much can they be that respectful to each other after such a rift has formed let's see going going my childhood would say otherwise Would they be that respectful to each other after such a rift has formed? Let's see. Going. Going. My childhood would say otherwise. But I like the optimism. Another woman in the movie.

There's two women who work at Charlie's school. One is his teacher. She doesn't know the word stepfather. Because she's like, Charlie, bring up your your, your, your, your Neil. You're like, alright, what is wrong with you? And then his principal, who, do we get a name for the principal? I don't think so.

I think that's the only woman of color who has a speaking role, right? And then Scott's business partner at the beginning, who he pushes out of the way. Right. So, you know, right.

Not good. Both of those characters get my 30 seconds of screen time at most. Yeah. Yeah. There. And then there's a Judy, the elf Judy, the kid that Tim Allen hits on.

Yes. Not only does he hit on her, but she's like, I'm dating someone. Yeah. I'm dating. I'm dating someone in rapping. Which, again, just suggests a horrible reality. And also, the North Pole, at least when Scott Calvin arrives in the first one,

is a pretty gender normative space where Judyy's really only doing domestic duties she's like working as santa's assistant she's bringing him cookies she's making sure he's comfortable in the bed exactly and then we see the entire elf military is all male right you know bernard's the ceo and and you know so there's there's there's work to be done at the North Pole I'll say it I agree one thing that I didn't hate about this movie

besides everything because it rules it's not very good oh I'm sorry objectively untrue Santa falls off a ladder. Yeah, and my dad saw it with me. Yeah.

So that makes it a brilliant piece of cinema. Also, there's a British elf who is fun. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Was that a choice or was he really British? I was on the fence. I mean, yeah. I mean, this a choice or was he really British? I was on the fence. I mean, yeah. I mean, this is a very American normative movie.

Most of the people in the North Pole are Americans. Doesn't track. But anyway. One of the things that I don't hate about the movie is that they at least acknowledge that not everyone celebrates christmas because in that line that line of questioning when neil is like well how could he be santa when this this and this and charlie's like well not everyone celebrates christmas not everyone has

a fireplace aka not everyone's rich because fireplace equals rich And that's the end of my statement. I like Charlie though. I think like Charlie is a cool, because I think sometimes in movies people will like undershoot or overshoot like how a child character is written. Like it's so

annoying to me when a kid is written as like too smart or precocious where it's like 500 days of summer and there's like a little girl folding her arms like joseph corden levitt you don't understand emotional labor i'm like shut up like i'm exhausted by that but it's like charlie charlie is like a smart kid but not so smart that you're like this is unrealistic he's just an emotionally intelligent stepson of a therapist he's just and i love that for him he's an empathetic kid

definitely caruana galizia was a maltese investigative journalist who on october 16th 2017 was murdered there are crooks everywhere you look now. The situation is desperate. My name is Manuel Delia. I am one of the hosts of Crooks Everywhere, a podcast that unhurts the plot to murder a one-woman Wikileaks. Daphne exposed the culture of crime and corruption that were turning her beloved country into a mafia state. And she paid the ultimate price. Listen to Crooks everywhere on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. To listen to new episodes one week early and 100% ad-free,

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One session. 24 hours. BPM 110, 120. She's terrified. Should we wake her up? Absolutely not. What was that? You didn't figure it out? I think I need to hear you say it. That was live audio of a woman's nightmare.

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Dragged. I'm NK, and this is Basket Case. So I basically had what back in the day they would call a nervous breakdown. I was crying and I was inconsolable. It was just very big, sudden swaps of different meds. What is wrong with me? Oh, look at you giving me therapy, girl. Finally, a show for the mentally ill girlies.

On Basket Case, I talk to people about what happens when what we call mental health is shaped by the conditions of the world we live in. Because if you haven't noticed, we are experiencing some kind of conditions that are pretty hard to live with. But if you struggle to cope, the society that created the conditions in the first place will tell you there's something wrong with you.

And it will call you a basket case. Listen to Basket Case every Tuesday on the iheart radio app apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts i i have i have a little context corner oh please yes okay so i went online i logged in okay and i was curious because uh you know christmas is has so many looming male figures over it. I was wondering what the history of women as Santa was. And there was a great article that came out in Mel Magazine last year that breaks that down very concisely. And I want to tell you my favorite over the past 150 years, the various attempts of women to get involved in Santa and the various ways in which they have been shut down and sometimes arrested. What?

So in 1849, we have the first recorded moment of a woman as Santa, or a woman as a part of Santa lore. Mrs. Claus is first introduced as a concept in 1849. Right? 1937. Quote, it's not quite female Santa just yet, but we see her first inklings when Charles

W. Howard found the Charles W. Howard Santa Claus School in New York, aka Santa University, to train up-and-coming Santas, and he lets two women train to be Santas, only if all the other Santas are killed at Santa University. What's that man's name again? Charles W. Howard.

Gotta remember that. He's a hero. Feminist icon. Yeah. No, but he's actually not, because they say... Oh, no! The women who are trained as Santas are trained to, quote,

greet little girls, learn what they want in their Christmas stockings, teach them how to play with dollies, dollhouses, dishes, and clothes. So, not so good. 1942, things get interesting. The first female Santa. It's World War II.

World War II creates a Santa vacuum by shipping... This is the best thing I've ever heard. So there's a Santa vacuum because all able-bodied men are fighting in the war. There's not someone around to be Santa. Women step in.

There needs to be a league of their own, but for Santa. Well, let's make Santa University first. First things first. Let's make Rosie O'Donnell famous again. For crying out loud. With this film. But it's okay.

So women step in to do, you know, a lot of jobs. A lot of women enter the workforce and Santa's no exception. A Chicago department store throws a woman a bone. Quote, the manpower shortage has even hit old Saint Nick, unquote. The Smithsonian reported at the time. This lady, Santa Claus,

has turned up, dressed like Mr. Claus except for the whiskers, at a Chicago department store and youngsters seem just as happy telling her which gifts they're hoping for. That same year, a New Jersey Woolworth hires a female Santa because they are, quote, unable to find a man suitable for the job, unquote. The mother of eight, Anna Michelson, wears the biopic, will wear a skirt instead of

trousers, but all the other stuff will be the same as the traditional Kris Kringle. This fuels outrage, but people eventually accept it. But the Wichita Daily Times calls the ordeal women, quote, invading another male bastion, unquote. Oh, my. Columnist Henry McLemore pens a national op-ed calling it a, quote, minor horror. Christine Kringle? Sarah St. Nicholas?

Susie Santa Claus? Holy smoke, unquote. It's 1942. He also should have said Sandra Claus. Listen, when it comes to my opinion, Santa Claus died on the beaches of Normandy.

With all of her other good men and daughters. You're really just adding to Santa University lore. Because there is, Santa University was up and operational in World War II. Listen, if you want me to write a novel, I could use that. 1943.

British actress Daisy Belmore accepts the job of a female Santa in New York for Saks Fifth Avenue. The beardless Belmore is called Mrs. Claus but is given her own throne and full Santa wish-granting powers. That same year, Max Factor releases a photo of the ideal Santa, ladies included.

Aside from portraying the female Santa with nail polish, women portraying Saint Nick are instructed to masculinize the performance in every way, including puffing their cheeks with cotton, lowering their voices, and putting on a fake bulbous nose. 1944, women begin dressing as female... This is, I'm going to say, every year up to the present. I'm kidding.

Women begin dressing as female Santas around the holidays for charity, and a 62-year-old Phoebe Seabrook, where's the biopic, is notably, wears the beard as well. 1995, for half a century, there's little kerfuffle over women and Santa Claus. Then, Donna Underwood of West Virginia is hired to portray Santa for a local mall.

A mall manager complains. The mall fires her. She sues them. She loses. Oh! 1999. Marta Brown is given the part of a female Santa at a Louisville, Kentucky Walmart, then loses it when a customer complains.

She sues $67,000 for lost wages. And like Underwood, she loses again. This is the end of Women of Santa. Who got arrested? Oh, I guess I meant they lost in court. Oh, okay. Same thing. Last year, two women volunteered to play Santa

in a Christmas parade in England, and the town protested. What? And the outcome as of the time of writing was undecided of whether they would be allowed to march. And then this year there's been a lot made of, there's an Anna Kendrick vehicle coming out on Disney

Plus where they're like, it's female Santa. Don't be fooled by the big mouse. She plays Santa's daughter. The fucking patriarchy has upheld santa does she become saint in the end i don't know it's not out oh yeah so uh all that to say the fight continues uh santa is a woman yeah yeah i know okay that's what Okay. That's what I had to say. Thank you. You're welcome. Let's see. I wrote down feminist icon soy milk girl.

Oh, she was so sweet. Judy? No. What was her name? Judy is the elf. Judy is the elf. Right. I forget.

She's anything. Yeah. She might not have been named. She has an arc, but she doesn't have a name. Right. Because Scott Calvin shows up the first day he's like santa claus is for idiots and then he comes back and he's like i've changed my views and i see your political point the next year jamie what episode was it recently that you were talking about how almost every story ever made is like a father-son story oh i i think it really could be

anything but there i think it was a matrion episode but yeah there's just like so many stories that even when they like even sometimes where a movie i noticed it lately and i don't think this is spoiling anything but even when i saw parasite which i loved that movie so much but like even when there are well-written female characters in the movie there's still just a core of like but it's really about a father and a son and what they mean to each other right and you're just like come please please also this is something we've talked about probably more on the the patreon aka matreon but, because we've covered a lot of Grinch and Muppets Christmas Carol on that. But yeah, yeah, yeah.

So many Christmas stories end up being like male redemption stories, and this is also no exception, where like he starts out, sharts, oh my God. Oh my God. Caitlin, it's the boards day.

That was another scene cut from the DVD. You do hear him fart when he starts to gain weight, but anyway. That's how it works, actually. I gain about a... Every day I gain a pound, I shit my pants. Okay.

So sad. Listeners, listeners. I'm 340 pounds. I don't know why I'm saying that. I just don't want them to think I'm real skinny. I just make it fun saying to think I'm real skinny. Making fun saying that fat people shit their pants every day. I'm not saying that.

I'm saying I shit my pants every day. That's what I'm saying. I really think our listeners are going to benefit from that clarity so scott calvin starts out as a shitty dad see where i accidentally almost said shart yeah so he's a shitty dad and the his whole arc is this redemptive, like, oh, I have to embrace being Santa so that I can have my son love me. And it's just, I'm very, very tired of male redemption stories. And here we have this one. Well, yeah.

I mean, I think that there is something to say. I think that there's just too many of them. To defend Scott Calvin. I think that there is something to say. I think that there's just too many of them. I think... To defend Scott Calvin. Grace red-pilled me. Scott Calvin, I do think that there is something to be said. As much as I will agree

that there's a lot of male redemption stories out there and there's so many people that are underrepresented, I think that it's good to have male redemption stories in which the man has to demonstrate some sort of growth sure um and that is a generally positive thing for you know because like the the way masculinity is portrayed in media is so skewed and you get the idea that men can do nothing and still be granted a redemption arc for no reason because that happens in real life a lot. I appreciate that at the very

least Scott Calvin demonstrates a change of mindset a change of priorities and appears to grow as a person. And that change sticks. Throughout the other two movies he remains Santa. In Santa Claus 2

in the beginning little portion, he lets all these elves just beat him at football and he's like, this is fun. You know? Old Scott would not have done that. Yeah, Old Scott wouldn't have done that, you know? He would have fired them. Yeah, and he's all hugs and kisses and he's like, I love cookies.

It's, you know. It's good. Like, I like where Scott Calvin ends. we didn't need another male redemption story but speaking of which we are going to cover the michael keaton jack frost on the matron this year which is the wildest male redemption arc you'll ever encounter i used to be so scared of that movie because michael keaton dies and then comes back to life as a snowman and then dies again. There, oof, you hate to see it. It's alarming, but yeah.

I think that's kind of all I had. We only had two hours worth of things to say about the Santa Claus. I'm honestly shocked. Most of it was us just describing the plot. No, we got, I honestly think we got 1,000% more discourse than I thought honestly shocked. Most of it was us just describing the plot. No, I honestly think we got 1,000% more discourse than I thought was possible. True.

Yeah, no, I think that that's all I had. Oh, the joke that I thought was, that I'd never noticed before that really got me this time was when they're in the classroom and the parents are presenting and we cut into the middle of the scene where a fire it's someone's parent who's a firefighter and he's like and that's why third degree burns are really bad and the teacher says thank you so much we're really sorry about your firefighting partner oh so we're led to believe that this traumatized man

just told a group of children about how his friend lit on fire. It's, I think, the most slept on joke of this hand of glass. It's very funny and I'm shocked they didn't cut it. It's on par with 1-800-SPANK-ME.

That's all I have to say. Yeah, yeah have to say anything else Grace do you have any other important insight defenses I'm genuinely curious if you could pitch us what you would do for the Santa Claus 4 what would you do Tim Allen is gay now

oh he's not gonna like that what would you do? Tim Allen is gay now. Oh, he's not going to like that. But he's like bi. He's like gay and he's bi at the same time. And he can do that through the magic of Christmas. Wow. So there's like Toy Santa, Toy Santa's gay, and Flesh Santa's bi. And they've worked through their differences.

Uh-huh. And it's like they're married, but Flesh Santa is still married to Mrs. Claus, the principal. So wait, are they poly? Like, it's kind of poly, but it's illegal to be polyamorous in the North Pole. Oh, no. Well, that's troubling. So they can't be open about it. But then Bernard finds out one day. Oh, no.

And he finds out in a way where he would have kept it a secret. He would have kept it a secret. But what? But he's caught in a lie from the little elves. I don't know what the lie is, but the lie forces him to reveal to the elves and also Father Time, who's back, but not played by Frank Lloyd, R.I.P.

Right. Sadly impossible. And then it turns out that there's a clause that's the fourth clause, right? I mean, of course. The fourth clause. Canonically, there has to be another clause yeah and

what is it what is the clause Grace and it's actually the what is the clause don't fuck this up Grace you only get one this is your eight mile This is your eight mile

This is your eight mile This opportunity comes once in a lifetime Are you quoting Eminem? It's It's called the Santa Claus for the Cummy Claws. That was worth the wait.

You fucked it up, Grace. You fucked it up. Now you have to make that movie. I have a check for $11 million. You have to go make the Comey Claws. The film is about Tim Allen

and Toy Santa and Mrs. Claus trying to prove that polyamory can work and they don't. They don't at all. And so Toy Santa gets killed again. And then they're kind of back to one.

It's kind of about how we commodify love as a society. Yeah. And how it's not just a toy. Oh, metaphor. Yeah. You brought it full circle. Yeah, yeah. Let's applaud that.

I would see it. I would see it. And there's probably a joke in there that's like, like Santa Claus being like, okay, I'm coming out of the closet as polyamorous. And then Bernard's like, must be a pretty big closet to have all your partners in there, huh? And then everyone goes, very funny, Bernard.

And then he Frenches me. Wait, is it closet? Is it closet spelled like C-L-A-U-S-E-T? See, you're way ahead of me, because that was going to be one of the big reveals. Oh, I'm a screenwriter. I have a master's degree. Yeah.

I see things coming. Bernard takes out a magnifying glass and there's a tiny T next to a clause. He's like, this was the real clause. Wow, I love it. Daphne Caruana Galizia was a Maltese investigative journalist who on October 16, 2017, was murdered. There are crooks everywhere you look now.

The situation is desperate. My name is Manuel Delia. I am one of the hosts of Crooks Everywhere, a podcast that unhurts the plot to murder a one-woman Wikileaks. Daphne exposed the culture of crime and corruption that were turning her beloved country into a mafia state. And she paid the ultimate price. Listen to Crooks Everywhere on the iHeartRadio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. To listen to new episodes one week early and 100% ad-free, subscribe to the iHeart True Crime Plus channel, available exclusively on Apple Podcasts. I've been thinking about you. I want you back in my life it's too late for that I have a proposal for you come up here and document my project all you need to do is record everything like you always do

one session 24 hours BPM 110 120 she's terrified should we wake her up? Absolutely not. What was that?

You didn't figure it out? I think I need to hear you say it. That was live audio of a woman's nightmare. This machine is approved and everything? You're allowed to be doing this? We passed the review board a year ago. We're not hurting people. There's nothing dangerous about what you're doing.

They're just dreams. Dream Sequence is a new horror thriller from Blumhouse Television, iHeartRadio, and Realm. Listen to Dream Sequence on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I felt too seen. Dragged. your podcasts. I felt too seen, um, dragged. I'm NK and this is Basket Case. So I basically had what back in the day they would call a nervous breakdown. I was crying and I was inconsolable. It was just very big sudden swaps of different meds. What is wrong with me? Oh, look at you giving me therapy, girl.

Finally, a show for the mentally ill girlies. On Basket Case, I talk to people about what happens when what we call mental health is shaped by the conditions of the world we live in. Because if you haven't noticed, we are experiencing some kind of conditions that are pretty hard to live with. But if you struggle to cope, the society that created the conditions in the first place will tell you there's something wrong with you. And it will call you a basket case. Listen to Basket Case every Tuesday on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, everyone. I think we have a few minutes for a few questions or comments from the audience. Yeah. What's about the nipple rating? Oh, we'll get there.

We'll do this first. We'll do this first, yeah. I'm so sorry. It's quite all right. I memorized the format. Yeah, I'm going to, so that you can talk on the mic, I'll come up here.

Hello. This may be a very obvious question, but who would Alfred Molina play in this movie? I'm so glad you asked. Thank you for that. Well, listen, I mean, clearly there's a lot of roles for him to play. Do I think he could pull off Charlie?

Yes. Imagine, if you will, Alfred Molina fully in his 40s when this movie comes out as Tim Allen's son, it would be incredible. For my purposes, it's gotta be Bernard, right? Because

Alfred Molina in a problematic dreads wig, it's like that. I think it's a very obvious pick. I don't think he would be, I don't think he has Scott Calvin energy. What a lot of people don't know is that Alfred Molina is the one who

fell off the roof. That is just canonically true. He volunteered his body. He just loves Christmas. If he was in a minor role, I think he could have made that judge role really pop. The judge is pretty forgettable, but if Alfred Molina

was there... If we get Molina in there, all of a sudden... Why couldn't this have been a courtroom drama? I think that Alfred Molina really would have sold the line where he's like, it really pains me to do this around the holidays. And I think we would have gotten the suggestion

of a tear, but not an actual tear. He's a pro. His eyes would have been closed, too. The judge's eyes are open. He would have been doing a flawless Midwestern accent. It really pains me. It's a weirdly tight shot. You're like, oh, are we supposed to be focused on you? And then it sort of just takes off,

and then we kind of just forget that santa claus happened and we just follow him through his life yeah yeah the answer is charlie thank you what's your name eric thank you so much um who else okay here it comes uh can we dissect the fat shaming scene with the business meeting did they fire him for being too fat? Great question. Yes, thank you for bringing that up. Yes, so there is, yeah,

during the Santa transformation sequence, there is like a fair amount of fat shaming jokes made at Scott's expense. But yeah, that scene in particular, where there's a scene where he shows up at work I think we're supposed to believe that he's gained 45 pounds overnight in the course of a week I think the course of a week yeah and

then he has a number of desserts and I mean maybe they fired him for being too fat or maybe they fired him because he was only supposed to spend 30 bucks on money he went out of his per diem He fired him because he was only supposed to spend 30 bucks on money. He went out of his per diem, which is an unforgivable.

This is ridiculous. I don't know. I was like, I feel like they gave kind of like a half-assed, I feel like they tried to give a better explanation, but kind of didn't. Where his boss like follows him out after lunch. There was a fat shaming element to it. But then he was also like, Scott, you're acting very bizarre and you're acting out of character.

Maybe you should talk to someone. He says like you should talk to someone. I don't know. I wasn't sure what to make of it either. His boss is played by Frank Lloyd, who also plays Father Time. I think the only actor who plays two different characters in the universe. Great.

I'm just trotting out my little, I'm just showing off. who plays two different characters in the universe. Wow. Great. Oh my God. I'm just trotting out my little, I'm just showing off. I'm sorry. That doesn't relate to the box here. She's just doing laps around us

trivia-wise. I'm so sorry. But I mean, there is a fair amount of fat shaming in the movie and then Tim Allen's character does it before he becomes Santa and he's like fat shaming

the Santa who he killed and then he starts to become Santa and then he's fat shaming the Santa who he killed and then he starts to become Santa and then people are fat shaming him. Yeah, it seems like he might have gotten fired for having gained weight. Or at least put on leave. Right. They're just like, hey, take a...

Yeah, I wasn't sure what to... I feel like that was a plot necessity from the writers to be like, we gotta free him up to be a Santa. He can't be having obligations. It's also when he goes to the doctor to figure out what's wrong. The doctor's like, I don't know what to say. You're so fit.

Your body's in perfect shape. You're just fat. And that's presented as a magical thing. Wow. That's impossible, usually. But this fat man can run. Whoa. That's Christmas magic for you.

Right. Yeah. And unfortunately, that's one of the more, I feel like that's a scene that a lot of people remember, is the transformation scenes. They definitely stuck out to me when I was a kid, too. Yeah, same. And the messaging, folks, it's bad yeah it's bad for sure yeah a couple others

hi what's your name hey uh i'm alex um i was just wondering like the elves seem really chill about a new santa so how often does santa die in this universe Because they're like, a new guy? Come on in. We love you. I don't know. I also took note of how they were like, yeah, it's you. I feel like what I would like to imagine is it's like when Saddam Hussein's statue was pulled down

and everyone was like, yes. I feel like they just finished a celebration because the last Santa was such dog shit. I think he was horrible. They were just thrilled. They're very concerned about protecting his life. Yeah. There's a whole sequence at the end of the film where it's like

you have a fire retardant suit now, which we didn't give the last one. Right. Yeah, it seems like they do... It's not that they don't care about any Santa. They just did not like the previous one.

I mean, it seems like Santa can die easily. Is that a suggestion? You fall off the roof of a two-story house into snow beneath you. You don't die. You might break some bones. And he didn't die because he waved bye bye.

Which is not what dying people are known for doing. The elves don't know the extent of Santa's power. That's what I think. I think it's like if you were friends with Jesus you'd be like he's cool he can do some cool shit but I don't know if he's the son of God.

I think they think he's a cool person but they don't know if he's the son of God. I think they think he's a cool person, but they don't maybe know. They don't know exactly what he's capable of. Sure. Interesting. Yeah, I mean, I think that maybe it was just the indication of the end of a cruel regime and the beginning of something beautiful. These are really Bush-era films. Yeah, they really are.

Other questions? We have time for a few more we have a question over here since his beard can grow back do you think if he got lipo he would just immediately get fat again i feel like we're led to believe that that's the case you certainly would yeah yeah yeah it's a part of the deal i don't mean to dismiss the validity of the question no i think i think the answer well you're the expert he's like well i mean in this world you are the preeminent scholar i've only seen three films you see i just love your use of the word certainly. Well, other questions? Yes, my name is Joe. And do you think that Peter Boyle was actually intended to do a spinoff movie

where he kills Father Time and actually takes the role in the second film? Oh, wow. That's really great. I hadn't even thought of that. Thought provoking. It would explain why he plays two different characters and

I god some galaxy brain shit is it a good is it fun to be father time I would think not I feel like

it's punishing just the yeah I feel like it's punishing maybe he's in hell maybe this is his house I would say this kind of goes back to the Grimm's fairy tale nature of these movies.

Like when you're a kid, you're like, oh, obviously anyone would want to be Santa, you idiots. Like, obviously. And then you're an adult and you're like, well, maybe he enjoyed his life in a toy company, you know? There's no karaoke bars in a toy company, you know, like there's not, there's no karaoke bars in the North pole. You know, there's, there's good things about, about being like what I want to be Santa.

I don't know. I think I would love the optics, but I couldn't handle the responsibility. And that's, I'm just being honest with myself. Yeah. Yeah. Well,

I mean, if the job offer ever comes along, we'll circle up and we'll really consider it. We'll really think about it. I mean, female representation of Santa has been lacking, as you talked about, James. I mean, yeah. You could lose thousands of dollars.

It's our responsibility for feminism. Yes, exactly. It's our responsibility. Fine, I'll do it. Yeah. We were trying for one more question. One more, yeah. One more. Caitlin, you pick picked this one i can't handle

the pressure go back it's gonna be someone who i can easily walk back to go far back oh okay i have long arms you have long arms someone's bragging about their arms okay all right you said something so here so in the context of a new feminist text Christmas icon, is Last Christmas a rom-com, a Scrooge tale, or a jukebox musical? Oh no, I haven't seen it yet. I got good news for you. Oh, great to see it.

The fourth film I've seen is Last Christmas. I forgot. I saw it very recently. It's not a jukebox musical. It isn't because they hardly sing any of the songs. They sing, like, I think three, and that doesn't cut it for me, you know? Last Christmas is a George Michael discography-based Christmas movie.

Who's seen it? Clap your hands. Oh, my gosh. Oh, no, it's just her. It's just her. Three people. It's killing it? Clap your hands. Oh my gosh. Oh no, it's just her. Three people. It's killing it. It's so tough to define it. I think

it's a rom-com that misfires. And I think that it could have been so weirder than it actually turned out to be. And there's not enough smooching. That's critical. And there's not enough smooching. And... That's critical. That's critical.

And also, this isn't a big spoiler, it ends in the spring. The last scene is Emilia Clarke's character just sitting in a park in the spring smiling. And that's not how I want my Christmas movie set. They should all end with Tim Allen taking off into the net. Regardless of whether he was in it or not.

It would have been a great ending if he just picked her up and was like, hey, sorry. God, we can't really talk about this movie. No, we can't. I was like, hey, sorry all that bad stuff happened to you. And that you're a failing actress and everything. But now you can be my wife.

I am excited to take another. Everyone's plan B is to be Tim Allen's Santa wife. Well, maybe those wives will talk to each other, which brings us to the Bechdel test. I mean, does anyone conceivably be no no it doesn't pass not even close i think the only scene where women interact is the scene in charlie's school where the principal and laura are there but we don't know her name and they they only talk about charlie and santa. So not even close.

Nope. Not even close. Well, and yet it's a feminist text. You know, as we say, it's a flawed metric. It's not endorsing that. It's presenting that. All right. So now the holiday nipple scale.

The holiday nipple scale. Comes withipple scale once a year it's red and green and it's five nipples based on its representation of women uh you know it's not high it's like a i guess like a half nipple because it doesn't the movie doesn't like outwardly hate women but it also just doesn't really care about including them or giving us any information about the women and yeah it's just not what's so funny about how grace is definitely gonna say five i'm just like preparing myself for it well hopefully mine brings the average down

but yeah like a half nipple it just sucks that there aren't any like family Christmassy movie where are all the movies about non-Christian holidays where's the winter solstice movie is what I'm saying I guess there actually is one but I've never seen it about non-Christian holidays. Where's the winter solstice movie

is what I'm saying. I guess there actually is one, but I've never seen it. Well, now you're part of the problem. I'm part of the problem. It's like we're forgetting eight crazy nights exist. Right.

What a nightmare of a movie. It is real problematic. I've never seen it. It's upsetting, but we should cover it at some point yeah it's just like it's like why don't little girls ever get to be

the protagonists of these movies anyway so half nipple and I guess I'll give it to Comet the reindeer I don't know how many nipples a reindeer has but I'm gonna guess four and then we'll leave it at that don't know how many nipples a reindeer has, but I'm going to guess four. And then we'll leave it at that.

Don't fact check me. I'm going to go with a generous one and a half because I, well, I agree that Laura is not a character we would refer to as written. Her character does avoid the fate of many characters in this genre in her position where she isn't made out to be a shrew. She isn't made out to be a bad person.

She's a good person. We understand where she's coming from, maybe more than any other parent in the movie. I appreciate that. I also appreciate pro-divorce. we understand where she's coming from maybe more than any other parent in the movie i appreciate that i also appreciate pro-divorce most people should get divorced like it's a smart move for most and you know just like uh seeing seeing a functional i mean like grace you were saying maybe a little unrealistic to be like and then the happens, and then you got two giant houses in Chicago, baby. But it was nice to see a divorced family and have it be normalized, right?

And Tim Allen shouldn't have flirted with the kid. We all agree. But on the grounds of I like Laura's character, I don't know what happens to her in the other two movies, but I appreciated her, and I was in her corner for the whole movie. So I'll do one and a half nipples, and they're going to Bernard.

Wait, can I give you an update? Female deer have four teeth, so was I right or was I right? Good for you. Thank you. I'm very good. Grace. I'm not going to give it five nipples.

I'm not. She's subverting the narrative. Because I learned a lot today. Okay. But I am going to give it two nipples. Okay. And the reason is simply that's the amount of nipples Scott Calvin has. Feminist hero.

And I will be placing those nipples firmly on Scott Calvin's chest. You screw them in yourself. Those fireproof nipples of Scott Calvin's. Well, that's the word on the Santa Claus 99 TV people have been

begging no they haven't this is an episode literally no one asked for it okay truly never been asked for it

Grace asked for it first time it's been requested well Grace thank you so much for being here give it up and Grace is a Thank you so much for being here. Give it up for Grace. Give it up.

And Grace is a Denver-based comedian, so go see her everywhere she performs all the time. Can I plug my thing now? Yes, yes, you may plug. Where can we find you online? The only reason I'm here. What if I told you that me, Grace Thomas, a Denver-based comedian, has a new show? What if I told you it me, Grace Thomas, a Denver-based comedian, has a new show? What if I told you it's a sci-fi comedy show with almost no stand-up,

and it's a hard sci-fi show with a sex robot and a super galactic pop star, which is me, and a bunch of other cool space stuff, and the name of the show is Wet Galaxy, which is the best name. And the first one is going to be on Saturday, January 11th at 9pm at New City Relief Center, which is the DIY space and you have to email me to get the address. But it is going to be very successful. So I would get in on it now. Where can people contact you and email you to find out the address?

So you can DM me on Twitter at Grace G. Thomas, or you can send me an email to gracegloriathomas at gmail.com. And my email is also on my Twitter account. And my Twitter account is not good. That's not true. Those are some good things to know. It's great. I have bipolar disorder, so sometimes you're just going to get anger.

Listen, they already follow me, so it's all good. It's good. But yeah, come to White Galaxy, please, January 11th. Is everyone going to be there? Please clap if you'll be there. She justed herself. That's a promise. That's a promise. Those two didn't

clap, so they didn't make a promise. But everyone who did clap made a promise. The Grace Thomas class. Oh, man. Well, that's our show show thank you so much for coming out all right that concludes our two-part episode on the santa claus we have a lot of people we want to thank starting with uh our guest, Grace Thomas. Thank you again so much to her for being on the show. She was so, so, so, so funny.

I've truly never laughed harder at a live show. So thanks again to Grace. Please follow her on social media and check out her upcoming show in Denver. Also, thank you to Buntport Theater. Thanks to Sam for having us there. And thank you to Buntport Theater. Thanks to Sam for having us there. And thank you to Ron for recording the show. Thanks to everyone who came out, everyone who asked questions, everyone who bought merch. We loved meeting you and chatting with you before and after the show. It's always such a joy to do that. So thanks for coming out. Jamie and I also

did a couple stand up shows when we were in Denver at Bar Max. So thanks to everyone who came out to those. And we also wanted to thank Marshall and everyone at Bar Max for having us there. If you live in or near Denver, check out their Punching Up comedy series. Go to barmax.co and subscribe to their newsletter for more information about those awesome comedy shows. Also, thank you to Becky and Ariana for helping us check people in at those stand-up shows. That was a huge help. Thank you so much for doing that. And once again, speaking of live shows, don't forget about the ones we have coming up in January 2020 in San Francisco, New York, and Philly. Once again, go to our website, Bechtelcast.com, click on the live tab

for more info. And then as always, you can follow us on social media at Bechtelcast. You can subscribe to our Patreon, aka Matreon, by going to patreon.com slash Bechtelcast. It makes for a great gift to a loved one during this holiday season because you get access to two bonus episodes every single month, along with our entire backlog of bonus episodes for only $5 a month. You can also grab our merch at tpublic.com slash the Bechdel cast. We have some great Grinch themed merch and then all the classics feminist icon, strong female protagonist, feminism is the law now, feminist icon, Alfred Molina, you name it, we got it. And I think that about does it. So thank you for listening. Have a happy and safe holiday season. Bye. Crooks Everywhere unnerves the plot to murder a one-woman WikiLeaks. She exposed the culture of crime and corruption

that were turning her beloved country into a mafia state. Listen to Crooks Everywhere on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. To listen to new episodes one week early and 100% ad-free, subscribe to the iHeart True Crime Plus channel, available exclusively on Apple Podcasts. Hey, it's Teddy Mellencamp. And Tamara Judge, better known as the Twats.

Yep, you heard that right. We're the hosts of Two Teas in a Pod. For all the housewife lovers out there, every week we break down every episode and give you our opinions. So join us as we stir the pot and get ourselves into some trouble. Okay, maybe a lot of trouble. Listen to Two Teas in a Pod on iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Kay hasn't heard from her sister in seven years. I have a proposal for you.

Come up here and document my project. All you need to do is record everything like you always do. What was that? That was live audio of a woman's nightmare. Can Kay trust her sister or is history repeating itself? There's nothing dangerous about what you're doing. They're just dreams. Dream Sequence is a new horror thriller from Blumhouse Television, iHeartRadio, and Realm. itself. There's nothing dangerous about what you're doing. They're just dreams.