The Bechdel Cast - The Santa Clauses (Season One) with Grace Freud

Episode Date: December 22, 2022

The tradition continues with special guest Grace Freud joining Jamie and Caitlin to discuss season one of the Disney+ original series, The Santa Clauses. (This episode contains spoilers) For Bechdel bonuses, sign up for our Patreon at patreon.com/bechdelcast Follow @GraceGFreud on Twitter. While you're there, you should also follow @BechdelCast, @caitlindurante, and @jamieloftusHELPSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Daphne Caruana Galizia was a Maltese investigative journalist who on October 16th 2017 was assassinated. Crooks Everywhere unearthed the plot to murder a one-woman WikiLeaks. She exposed the culture of crime and corruption that were turning her beloved country into a mafia state. Listen to Crooks Everywhere on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. That's right, the only, Katherine Hahn is joining us on Las Culturistas. That's right, the queen of comedy herself. Get ready for a conversation that's as hilarious as it is insightful. Tune in for all the laughs, the stories,

and of course, the culture. Don't miss Katherine Hahn on Las Culturistas. Listen to Las Culturistas on Will Ferrell's Big Money Players Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey everyone, Jake Storielli here from John Boy Media. I want to tell you about my podcast, Big Money Players Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, everyone. Jake Storielli here from John Boy Media. I want to tell you about my podcast, Waking Jake.

I've been a sports nut my whole life, and there's nothing I love more than talking about it. If you're a sports fan, Waking Jake is the place for you. Covering all the hot topics from the sports world, a lot of baseball, a lot of postseason coverage, mock drafts, awards, guest interviews, all of baseball. A lot of postseason coverage. Mock drafts. Awards. Guest interviews. All of it.

New episodes every Monday and Wednesday. Come watch along on the Wake and Jake YouTube channel. Or listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Attention Bechtelcast listeners. It's me, Caitlin, and... And me, Jamie. And guess what? What what what wait should we say it together one two three we're going on tour that'll sink in the ad eventually imagine that but with more enthusiasm because we're very excited we haven't gone on tour in three human years.

That's 21 dog years. Wow. That's so true. I am really good at math. And put a pin in dog because that's going to come back in a few seconds. But for now, we're going to just tell you some preliminary facts about the tour. Yeah. It's on the west coast of the United States.

So we're going. Sorry, everyone else. So we're starting in los angeles ever heard of it with a show on january 26th at the elysian theater the movie get ready and that's where the dog comes back in because it's and it is a dog coming of age movie it is a goofy movie we've've been getting requests from this since the beginning, and it's finally time to cover a goofy movie. We can't wait. A coming-of-age dog movie. Can you believe it? Can you believe it?

Then we are going to be scooting on up on foot, I believe. Caitlin and I will be hiking. That's why there's a bit of a gap. All the way to San Franciscoisco for san francisco sketch festival we've done it before if you've been before come out again that's on february 1st and where is that caitlin that's at the gateway theater in san francisco and we are covering george of the jungle sorry sorry sorry sorry, sorry. George, George, George of the Jungle. Then guess what? We are continuing

to scoot on up to Portland, Oregon. We will be at Curious Comedy Theater, another theater we love. We're doing two shows in Portland. The first is with the wonderful Sarah Marshall of You're Wrong About and You Are Good. We're going to be covering the

goonies yes and then at 9 p.m caitlin what tell me more okay 9 p.m also this is on february 2nd oh shit did i not say that groundhog day but oh yeah don't think about the movie groundhog day because that has nothing to do with our tour we covered that we did it already sorry bitch six years ago okay so first shows at 7 p.m. with Sarah Marshall, The Goonies. Second show is at 9 p.m. It is a surprise mystery guest and a surprise mystery movie. Hello? It's going to be a banger.

I'm very excited. Come to one, come to both. Come to both. None of my business. But it will be different. Different shows. to one come to both come to both none of my business but it'll be different different shows and then finally we are scooting on up continuing our journey on foot to seattle and on february 5th we're doing a show at laughs comedy club and we are covering the goonies again because guess

what it's hard work to do a tour and it's a lot to do a bunch of different movies so well yeah we're doing Pacific Northwest classics and so if you're in Seattle come on up for the Goonies in Seattle and yeah we're really excited to go we're really excited to see everybody again

we will have merch for you we sell exclusive posters and stuff like that. Designed by Jamie, the one and only. Designed by Mrs. Jamie herself. Yeah, we can't wait to see you and hang out. And it's been 84 years since. It's been 84 years.

It really makes you think. So what you're going to do is go to our link tree, which is, it's always so weird to say the link of link tree because it's L I N K T R dot E E slash Bechtel cast. And that's where each of the ticket links will be to buy tickets for our shows. We love you so much. We're really excited. Get your tickets now because they are actually genuinely going fast. Usually when I say that I'm lying,

but this time I'm really not. This time it's true. And yeah, brag. Our tickets are moving fast. So you're gonna want to grab them soon. All right. And we'll see you there, West Coast. See you there.

On the Bechdelcast, the questions asked if movies have women in them are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands or do they have individualism the patriarchy's effing vast start changing it with the beckdell cast ho ho ho jamie no you can't say that anymore oh sorry yeah christmas is problematic. I forgot. It's me, the woke mob. I'm offended.

Cut that out. I'm pissed. No, you know what? The war on Christmas has lasted long enough, and I won't stand for it. Okay, fine. What are you going to do about it? Retire? Maybe I will.

This, in many ways, I feel the the piece of media we're discussing today is just like so beautifully profoundly american because it's just a long-winded way of telling a man he can never retire it's not going to be possible and in fact it would be morally wrong to retire yeah jeff bezos wouldn't be a good Santa, so you can never retire is my takeaway. That is exactly what this show is about. Welcome to the Bechtelcast. My name is Jamie Loftus. My name is Caitlin Durante, and this is our show where we examine usually movies, but guess what we're doing today for the very first time in Bechtelcast history we said we'd never do it but we're like we're not gonna cover tv we just we don't have the time it's too

time consuming we won't be moving forward except there's already been a season two picked up but what were we gonna do not cover the Santa Clauses what are we five years old of course we're going to cover the Santa Claus is it's important that we do so it's critical yes I feel like we don't even need to explain what the Bechdel test is today because this show passes it with flying colors anyways so I'm not even worried about it I'm not even it's not even an issue yeah and this show kind of transcends themes it's it's kind of a tone poem, I would say. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

That's definitely what I said in the pitch. So wait, can we, let's unpack this. Let's get our guest in the room, because Caitlin and I, full disclosure, didn't come in with all the information. Right. Which is, wow, because Grace, we're very close, and I just thought, like, you would have told me well i've just i've been really you know busy it's hard making a tv show yeah is it okay let's i have so many questions but okay okay so let's introduce our guest you know our guest from our episodes on the santa claus one two and three and although we did record it one three and two for some reason right

right right never forget yeah and in a surprise twist that we just found out about the other major credit for our guest is that she is the head writer of the Santa Clauses it's Grace Freud what the fuck yeah uh it was an incredible experience i am really proud of what we made together and it's been magical right from the go yeah when i met tim for the first time i say hi i'm grace and he says greg i said no grace he says grace i said yeah grace he says, Greg? I said, no, Grace? He says, Grace? I said, yeah, Grace. He says, Grace? I said, yeah, Grace.

He goes, oh, yeah. I said, yeah, Grace. He says, okay. And I think the comedic wonder of that conversation really shines through at every moment of the show. Yeah. conversation you really shines through at every moment of the show yeah i think i mean i would say i'm surprised to hear that things went that naturally to begin with but it really it really comes forth in in the work the work is just yeah unbelievable i mean it kind of speaks for itself yeah i i think that it was very humbling to work with tim because he was so impressed by my capabilities as a writer and a comedian that uh he couldn't look me in the eyes

he never once looked me in the eyes uh and i took that to be in a nice way i was i was honored to work with him but he was so honored to work with me it's like he was almost afraid to be around me and that that was incredible but yeah i'm i'm really proud of what we made together i mean i would say in awe probably i mean that's how i'm interpreting that is just an absolute awe because it's like you know he he's a mere cocaine felon you know like he's he can't do what you do yeah i i tell stories with words right famously and tim tells stories with noises like, uh, or, um, uh. You know, he's not great at saying words, but he's so good at a grunt. He's basically the Cary Grant of grunts.

And it was an honor to work with him. Wow. And it's an honor to talk about this continuation of a universe i so love uh on this podcast and it was interesting how you said it passes the bechdel test because it it it does but that's the reason I've been fired going into season two. Oh, my. You're not coming back? Well, I'm coming back in a slightly different role.

Okay. Which I can talk more about later. Wait, you were fired because you made the show pass the Bechdel test too much? It wasn't supposed to? Yeah or it wasn't supposed to yeah it wasn't supposed to really pretty much tim's i see only request was for it to not pass the bechdel test please don't let women talk to each other if you if you remember the third santa claus film does in fact pass the bechdel test that's why he didn't do do anymore for so long he was so mad about that yeah I mean I honestly was surprised I thought that El Camino Christmas

was going to be kind of the new direction but when that didn't get a sequel shockingly well and he dies at the end so yeah but he could have come back he well that's he and he could have come back as Santa Claus maybe Maybe it's true. The lore is there. Grace, the thing is like what we didn't realize, we didn't know that you were the head writer when we started preparing for this episode. So I feel like the tone of our notes, I guess I just want to like say everything we have is constructive and I'm sure that that you have an answer for everything.

And so I guess I'm just now feeling very insecure about kind of the tone of my notes. I don't think you should feel that way at all. I think any piece of powerful art is going to have just as powerful of a response. Wow, that's true. And to me, this powerful of a response. Wow, that's true. And to me, this is a symposium. Wow. I'm sorry, do you mean something like Sant-posium? Santa-posium, I would say.

Which is the exact type of joke that you consistently wrote into the show. Yeah. Oh, I did not write those jokes. You didn't. Oh, I see. Okay, sorry. I didn't write. In fact, none of our writers wrote those jokes. You didn't. Oh, I see. Okay. Sorry. I didn't write. In fact, none of our writers wrote those jokes.

Who did? Who wrote the jokes? Well, Tim had a friend on set that, as far as we can tell, has no comedy film or television experience. Where do you meet Tim? How do they know each other? From what I could understand, this man knew Tim from some sort of, what did they call it?

Blood gambit. Oh, I see. I believe that at some point in the past few years tim lost a wager and now this man has final cut on all of tim's projects i see that's shocking to hear but also you know i i get it you know tim's gotta do what tim's gotta do it's just it's a challenging piece i will say let, I would actually like to start with like a compliment, just like top of my head, one of my favorite jokes. So Caitlin, I mean, I know that you're going to have trouble kind of, you know, parsing out what, what joke is

the best, you know? But I, I think that my favorite joke was before one of the many astronomically expensive music cues that appear in this television show uh this one's right before uh eye of the tiger and i believe and grace correct me if i'm not quoting this uh well scott calvin says something like it's actually eye of the santa tiger and then eye of the tiger of, I think, the most expensive music cues that you could do. But it just seems like it just had to happen that way. And I was on the floor. Yeah, I decided to sacrifice my salary so we could have that 30-second sequence set to Eye of the Tiger. I didn't end up getting paid a cent for this job because of

that that's now who had to give up their uh their salary for girls just want to have fun who was on the chopping block for that one oh i stopped paying the i stopped paying all of the writers assistance wow for that that was a me choice though they didn't they wanted to be paid but i well it's kind of that's not very christmas spirity of them so what i'm learning is that you became a bit like cal penn's character in this show not at all oh okay because i would say that cal penn's character who does not have a name uh we refer to him as cal penn's character yeah in the show actually yeah to the point where cal penn says at one point cal what a cool name yes that's the line that i think is really going to get us an emmy oh okay that was for an emmy

well don't forget the part where there's like a smoke monster I think it's in episode six and then Carol who was famously in Lost is like I think I've seen one of these before because there was famously a smoke monster in Lost wow I gotta tell you that went right over my head our metrics show that most you know this was targeted to kids between 5 and 11. And our metrics show that most kids have seen Lost. And wouldn't get that joke. Yeah, yeah. And love Calvin. And wouldn't know it.

Yeah, that's why the two big things for elementary school age kids right now are Lost and Harold and Kumar movies. Oh, they watch Harold and Kumar. I was wondering if they just really loved former Obama staffers. I didn't know if that was where they knew Cal Penn from, Harold and Kumar or the Obama administration. Actually, yeah. We're hoping they don't find out about that because we're finding that a lot of kids those age their politics are kind of more like romney republican you know like stand against trump but also you know essentially mormon mormonism is really popular

with elementary school kids now too and i think you see that in the show. I mean. Really? Because basically the mythology of how Santa works is essentially the Book of Mormon. You can track it like point for point. So we kind of ripped them off, but lovingly. Sure. But yeah, I mean, I think that like, was I a little tyrannical in the room? Yeah. Oh, I wasn't going to ask that. Did I fire a few people?

Yeah. Well, that's why I'm saying you were like Cal Penn's character. And he's also anti-union. It's upsetting. Well, okay. Okay. So I did that, all of that stuff to get into the mind of Cal Penn's character. Sure. that stuff all of that stuff to get into the mind of cal penn's character sure but i was not that is

not like cal penn's character at all because he would never walk the walk you know like he doesn't walk the walk of santa i walked the walk of cal penn's character so i could walk the walk of being a good showrunner and writing a good piece of television and i really like to think of it as a movie that has been broken up into episodes that each have their own beginning middle and ends yeah it's three hours long avatar 2 is three hours long it's an avatar's worth of the santa claus why i can't um if you need proof that there's a war on christmas it's the fact that avatar the way of water is being called a movie but the santa claus is is not being called a work of film it's reduced to television yeah that's it will not even be considered for the Academy Awards.

The Academy won't even consider the Santa Clauses. For Best Picture? For Best Picture, for Best Screenplay, for Best Direction, for Best Lead Actor. Special Effects? Yeah. Is there a Best Callback Music music montage category at the Oscars? No? Oh, probably because Christmas movies usually do that best every year.

It really is. The Academy is like, I mean, we know the Academy is like really fucked up. But the fact that it's like, you know that the nominations are going to come out and there's going to be like, not even for Crouton, are we going to be seeing a nomination, which at very least it's like Crouton's performance is above, like, you know, it doesn't even matter if,

if the work is good, which it is, but like what Crouton brings, it's unbelievable. Best supporting elf is what that character deserves. Yeah. Not even a category i just don't understand what you know take like everything everywhere all at once it's a it's a

film that people love in large part because it's about you know the cycle of like trauma and you know intergenerational trauma and being immigrants and and que. And that's exactly what the Santa Claus is about. This is a family who's immigrated to the North Pole dealing with the intergenerational trauma of that. And, you know, the daughter is queer because she thinks horses are sexy or something. Oh, Grace, I have a question about that. How did you cast the voice for the reindeer that says,

you're my best friend? Just like that. Oh, yeah. How did you find, what was the casting process like for that? Surely that wasn't scratch audio, right? That was. Yeah, that was actually a pretty a pretty long process oh okay because in my plans for season two who knows if they'll go with them but in my plans for season two

that reindeer steve was going to be the villain. So we actually cast, he has the spirit of John Wayne Gacy in him. So we actually cast someone to have like a scary serial killer John Wayne Gacy voice. And we took that seriously because, you know, John Wayne Gacy caused real harm

to real people. so when you when you cast someone to play him whether as a human or as a ghost living inside of a reindeer you have to respect that and find an actor who can really embody that character and we so we we went with cuba gooding jr um oh you got him wow oh because wow he i mean he did he did oj he was oj yeah and he was he was available and he's done a lot of bad stuff much like john wayne Gacy but yeah no regrets on that I think he did a kill kill I think he really did a great job I just I just have one more question before we get into the recap because it's kind of going on that theme now I'm you know I'm kind of a pedestrian viewer I like you know I'm not much of an art house gal so this is very possible that this is just i'm just operating thoroughly out of my wheelhouse

here but in the final episode sandra opens a closet door and begins speaking to something i was pretty afraid of this creature you know you could tell it was computer generated and it kind of like kind of talked like this. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Could you, what was that? That was not computer generated at all. Oh, my God. Wow. I am so embarrassed right now. No, it's okay.

Oh, I'm sorry. Disney has been working on creating special creatures and beasts. Oh, they're like genetically engineering new animals. Yeah, they're genetically engineering new animals to be in their films for when, like they're worried that the CGI artists are unionizing. So instead of meeting their demands, paying them the extra 10 mil or whatever it would cost on any given project,

they've decided to spend upwards of $100 billion trying to just genetically engineer any given creature. They would need to CGI into a film or a TV show, which is why Dizzy's, it's about God. It's about, I think their move is to use these creatures to rise up and take control of the economy. Oh, okay. I don't know what other move they have because god they've gotten really good at making these things but boy did it cost a

lot of money but this sounds a little crass but i just feel like that creature could have gone through another couple of drafts i found it very unsettling but it looked very strong i will say it looked very very i i'm confident it could have killed me yeah uh we call that a piss slip the scientists name it the scientists are very crass they don't really have the disney spirit um nor the creativity that someone like you the head writer of this show has yeah yeah i. Yeah. I didn't get to pick, by the way. Really? They just gave me one.

I was like, we want to have a little green chair. So you have one as a pet? Oh, we put it down. Okay. I was worried because what if it just kicked the door down? No. Hi. No.

We put that little bugger down yeah um what the fuck was that i want to help sandra but did it even come back in the episode did i black out like i think does it come back it it helped find the coat kind you know the the great thing about the search for the coat was that no one really had to do anything. And then all of a sudden it was just there. You know, that was, I think, a real stroke of genius. My favorite part about the coat was when it was crawling for its life. It was dying. Oh, yeah.

Suddenly it's a sentient or is it a santient? Santient. Coat. There you go. Someone might have just gotten a job on season two. If you're hiring. I will still be hiring and running the show, but kind of from the shadows I'll be I've been demoted to shadow showrunner.

Sure, sure. I did an initial interview for it and. Oh, I don't know if we need an interview with you, Jamie. I just feel like. Oh, that's fine. You know, you just haven't been quite bringing the pun game that we really need. I was just going to say, I was like, you know, I, I heard, you know, because people talk. I heard that Santa Claus season two might want to be using sympathy for the devil for no reason in episode three.

And I would be willing to forsake my 364 days pay to make that possible, you know, if that would be helpful. Oh, yeah. Okay. Yeah. Let me think about that. I think we're going to be using sympathy for the devil in most episodes. Oh. going to be using sympathy for the devil in most episodes oh and uh it's actually a lot of season two is going to be an exploration of the coat's trauma um i see and and that i think is a really

worthwhile that's a story that we want told okay you know i then actually respectfully i'm gonna i'm gonna pull myself out of the running it would feel wrong to take up space when the coat is right there. Do you own a coat? I do own a coat. And I was clinging to it for dear life. And I've sort of been re-evaluating my relationship to the coat, realizing I've lost a coat before.

And where did it end up? Did it end up in Cal Penn's clutches? It's just sort of been a whole journey. But yeah, I know I have a lot of experience if that's what you're asking. Yeah. Okay. Okay.

Yeah. Literally no pressure. Well, while you ponder that, shall I do the recap? Oh, yeah. I'd sure love to see you try. I'm going to try my damnedest. It's dense.

But before I get into it, let's take a quick break. Daphne Caruana Galizia was a Maltese investigative journalist who on October 16th, 2017, was murdered. There are crooks everywhere you look now. The situation is desperate. My name is Manuel Delia. I am one of the hosts of Crooks Everywhere, a podcast that unhurts the plot to murder a one-woman Wikileaks.

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Oh, my God, I would love it. I have to watch Lost. Oh, you have to. No, I know, I'm so behind. Katherine Hahn can sing. Oh, I'm really good at karaoke. And on cameras, yeah, what's your song? Oh, I love a ballad.

I felt Bjork's music. I just was like, who is this person? I got to hawk this slalom, Ludi. Not hawk the slalom. I absolutely love it. It was somehow Shakespearean when you said it. It was somehow gorgeous. Yee, my slok, you hollum.

Listen to Las Culturistas on Will Ferrell's Big Money Players Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. It was December 2019 when the story blew up. In Green Bay, Wisconsin, former Packers star Kabir Bajabiamila caught up in a bizarre situation. KGB explaining what he believes led to the arrest of his friends former Packers star Kabir Bajabiamila, caught up in a bizarre situation. KGB explaining what he believes led to the arrest of his friends at a children's Christmas play. A family man, former NFL player, devout Christian,

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All right. All right. Now, Grace, if you have any, you know know notes or insights feel free to to let us know you know kind of as we're going because i just like this is such a behind the scenes treat yeah i uh it's difficult to recap the santa claus is because it's not only a tone poem but it's kind of like an impressionistic visual work i really have my work cut out for me yeah yeah good luck thank you i'm gonna go episode by episode so could you say the episode titles too because i have a question right away which is why is the first episode called good to hoe

well why is it called good to Ho, Grace? Do you have any insight? It's... Because I gasped. It's basically what happened is we had to cut a subplot that would have dealt with really tastefully, despite the term in the title. It would have really tastefully dealt with, like, it was mostly about, like, reindeer sex work in the North Pole. Oh, okay. I wasn't aware. And so while that's a derogatory term, it was in there because some of the characters were using it and then by the end of the episode learned,

oh, that's not good for me to do that's interesting because i i mean that's actually helpful because what remains is a little baffling because in that the space of that episode you know you see the the episode titled good to hoe and you you're in your mind you're like this show is for five to eight year olds why would they title why would they title that for adults you know and then later in the episode uh an elf who's a doctor has the same phrase written on a tape measure yeah right yeah and again i think before we took out this like really thought-provoking subplot a lot of that would have made sense and in fact i think taking out that subplot, a lot of that would have made sense. And in fact, I think taking out that subplot makes a lot of this.

I think that's my biggest regret of what we did on the show. Mainly because when you're rewatching it, which I'm sure you will. Very rewatchable. Whenever you see a reindeer reindeer doesn't that reindeer look like it's just came and because we cut off the subplot you're my best friend yeah we don't that's what i say every time after i come that's usually what i will say yeah because we cut out that subplot we we don't show the reindeers fucking at all yeah but the reindeers are acting like when steve says you're my best friend but one of the reasons he

says it's so weird it's not just the ghost of john wayne gacy played by cuba gooding jr it's also because oh he's tired he's been going at it yeah he's huffing and puffing. Wow. It's true. Wow. And just one last thing before. I didn't find this out for the entire time I was watching all avatars worth of this. Sandra is played by Tim Allen's actual daughter. Yeah. Oh, did not realize that either.

Yeah. Yes. Okay. They met on set. Well, I think we have all the information we need, all the context we need to dive in. So episode one, good to ho. It's Christmas Eve.

You know it. Santa, Scott Calvin Santa, who we know and love from the first three movies. He's out delivering gifts with his elf friend noel uh he reflects on how it's been 28 years since he's been santa claus but oh no his santa magic falters a bit he returns to the north pole we meet head elf betty and some of the other elves looks like cara delavine got hit with a shrink ray yes oh my god she looks like baby cara delevingne i know she's also on station 11 but i haven't seen that show so i thought baby

cara delevingne anyways so maybe first woman head elf ever progressive tim could not have been happy about like can you just consider consider that uh yeah like if you you just consider that? Yeah. Like, can you just like remember that we did that? Really cool. Really cool. Yeah, it was good. So she and some of the other elves and Mrs. Claus are all concerned about Santa's magic and how it isn't working properly. The woke mob.

Is that, I mean, that was was i assume it was political correctness was taking away from the magic of of scott's christmas right well you've seen the end of the of the season which very clearly doesn't answer what was happening and we did that intentionally so they're like it's the jacket it's the witch it's the orb you really can't say we were saying political correctness was was doing that to santa's magic because the ending is so intentionally unclear that it just you just simply can't say that and that's how you get a second season honey exactly answering no questions yeah the second season isn honey. Exactly. Answering no questions. Yeah.

The second season isn't going to deal with that at all. But yes, yeah. Okay. So they think that this loss of Christmas magic is happening because not enough children around the world believe in or need Santa Claus anymore. So Santa is like, well, I guess I better work harder to try to be a better Santa and I need to gain weight. And so there's a whole montage of him trying to gain weight and do some other things to try to be a better Santa. More like I have the Santa tiger. Yes, yes, exactly. you know we had santa crack a couple of eggs of raw eggs into a glass and then pour them over a

bunch of candy and chocolate in a blender pretty funny i loved that i mean that was very visual story that was really really funny that's comedy i mean that is i think a joke that is just kind of in the American lexicon. Yeah, now it is. From now on. Yeah, heart of gray. Yes. So we see this montage where he's trying to be a better Santa, which is mostly him eating candy. And this is all happening as the year passes and we approach the next Christmas. Also, Santa and Mrs. Claus have two kids.

Their son, Cal, a.k.a. Buddy Calvin Claus, who was he born in one of the movies? He was. Yeah, he was born at the end of Santa Claus 3. Santa Claus 3. Okay, right. Gotta give Carol something something to do as tim would say so there's cal buddy and then there's also their daughter sandra so the next christmas rolls around santa is not excited about christmas as he used to be the spirit is just in general down meanwhile cal pen whose name is something like simon something i think it's simon choksi yes um but he's he's kind of a he's kind of a jeff bezos type but and grace i thought this was a

really really smart choice what if we were rooting for jeff bezos as if he was an underdog. And I had never thought of it that way. And now I feel so freaking bad for things I've said over the years. How dare you? Yeah. It's so bad. Really, I think with the character of Cal Penn's character, and again, you guys made up the name for him on the spot. We never gave him a name we wanted to do kind of like a spoken word but

with visuals of where capitalism is at in our country right now and i think what we say is it's at a pretty good place yeah well i think we can all agree with that and i'm sure that you know the calpins of the world need to say sorry the cal the calpins character of the world mean yeah i i think that's really true i think you know there's so many things happening it's like oh he runs this big company that has six percent of the market share which seems a lot of the market um and he's like made a bunch of successful video games but now he wants to be amazon amazon still exists in this world too and everyone's and apparently he has to go to a venture capital firm to get more funds even though he's already very successful yeah and his daughter doesn't seem

like she goes to school it seems like she goes to the venture capital firm yeah yes as well she's his assistant yeah yeah yes and i think that raises a lot of questions i think everything i just said raises a lot of questions and i think america should ask themselves the questions and provide the answers themselves. And that will help us as a country find our soul again. I agree. I have hubris. provided the answers to these questions about calvin's character i would basically be saying this is what's wrong and this is how to fix the economy that's not your responsibility and i don't know how to do that and it's such a classic christmas tale you know to really quickly and

automatically forgive the ostensible villain of the story by just reminding people that he had a dead not just a dead wife but a dead wife who existed in an entirely different aspect ratio as the rest of the show yes yes yes she exists in full screen but calpins modern life i'm glad you noticed that was that one of your creative choices grace yeah i wanted the iMovie right before we put that episode up i changed it real quick and then right before it went live yeah i think you could have gone ken burns but i i appreciated the the artistic choice yeah that also was in ken burns effect that would be so fun just slowly i think another great thing we were able to do with that character is you're supposed to root for him up until all of a sudden he's the most evil man to ever be in the north pole but then at the end you're supposed to root for him again

and that is much like life and that's just good writing i would say um yeah so cal penn he's the ceo of an amazon-like company called everything now but the company is in trouble because of their system of delivering packages uh being really shitty and they're bad drones bad drone and when the drones go to the north pole they have guns and they're good they're like very competent drones which is i just thought that was a fun callback to um the aggressive militarization that scott calvin put in place in the north pole because it wasn't extremely militarized before scott you know, was not elected, took control, wrested control of the North Pole.

He does, you know, run a bit of a tight ship up there. And he's, you know, the elves are militarized, always have been. And, you know, now we've outsourced that work to the drones. And I think that that's really responsible. I mean, art imitating life much? Yeah. I mean art imitating life much yeah um okay so then the episode ends on uh the following Christmas Eve Santa is out delivering gifts but he falls off of a roof and maybe he's dead that was again just a really alarming way to end the pilot episode is by killing Tim Allen.

Okay. I thought I was upset. Here's what I, here's the direction I thought the show was going to go in. So Grace, maybe you have an explanation for why what was clearly being set up never ends up happening. Where, so there's a moment in episode one that i didn't mention but cal pen he's like all stressed out because his company sucks he goes outside he looks up into the sky and he sees santa like teleporting and he's like if santa can do it so can i not paid off on so so i thought the show was going to set up that cal pen's character was going to try to kill santa to take

over his spot as santa but that doesn't happen no someone could have told him the santa claus and then that would have been he would have been a really scary villain it kind of would have been cool well we didn't really want to make a cool show. We wanted to make a heartwarming show, right? So you can't really make a warm show that's cool. Wow, those are two ends of a spectrum. That's right. That just doesn't add up. Right.

You know, surprisingly enough, on set, Cal was constantly trying to kill Tim Allen in real life. Wow. I assume that's why he took the job. When he took the job, he thought he was going to end the season as Santa. And when he found out he wasn't, he was very, very angry. So he got it in his head that if he killed Tim, he would then become Santa in the show. And I kept saying, Cal, put the gun down. Put the gun down.

That's not how it works. But he just kept at it. He just kept at it. I can't believe we finished shooting. Couldn't take a note. He's a bad shot. He's just a bad shot, you know? I think maybe he's a...

So he was shooting at Tim Allen. Yes, yeah. I think Cal might be toking up a little bit too much like his famous... Oh, like Kumar. President Obama. Yeah, like President Obama. Yeah, like his hero. Right. Yeah.

Okay. Okay. I would just like to say Tim loved it. Oh. Tim loved the excitement and also the other thing that he loved is one of those bullets killed his uh friend who he had the blood gambit with so after episode four tim was free um i see and that's why it gets really really good around yeah and that's about the time that him and kel you know

made up okay oh and it shows it shows on screen yeah okay episode two is the successes clause actually let's take another quick break and then we will come back for more recap Defne Caruana Galizia was a Maltese investigative journalist who on October 16th 2017 was murdered there are crooks everywhere you look now the situation is desperate my name is Manuel Delia I am one of the hosts of Crooks Everywhere, a podcast that unhurts the plot to murder a one-woman Wikileaks.

Daphne exposed the culture of crime and corruption that were turning her beloved country into a mafia state. And she paid the ultimate price. Listen to Crooks Everywhere on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, everybody, this is Matt Rogers. And Bowen Yang. We've got some exciting news for you. You know, we're always bringing you the best guests, right? Well, this week, we're taking it to the next level. The one, the

only, Katherine Hahn is joining us on Lost Culture East. That's right, the queen of comedy herself. Get ready for a conversation that's as hilarious as it is insightful. Tune in for all the laughs, the stories, and of course, the culture. I feel some Sandra Bernhardt in

you. Oh my God, I would love it. I have to watch Lost. Oh, you have to. No, I know. I'm so behind. Katherine Hanken's thing. Oh, I'm really good at karaoke.

What's your song? Yeah, what's your song? Oh, I love a ballad. I felt Bjork's music. I just was like, who is this person? I got to hawk this slalom, Lugie. Not hawk the slalom. I absolutely love it.

It was somehow Shakespearean when you said it. It was somehow gorgeous. Yee, my slok, you hollum. Listen to Las Culturistas on Will Ferrell's Big Money Players Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. It was December 2019 when the story blew up. In Green Bay, Wisconsin, former Packers star Kabir Bajabiamila caught up in a bizarre situation.

KGB explaining what he believes led to the arrest of his friends at a children's Christmas play. A family man, former NFL player, devout Christian, now cut off from his family and connected to a strange arrest. I am going to share my journey of how I went from Christianity to now a Hebrew Israelite. I got swept up in Kabir's journey, but this was only the beginning. In a story about faith and football, the search for meaning away from the

gridiron, and the consequences for everyone involved. You mix homesteading with guns and church and a little bit of the spice of conspiracy theories that we liked. Voila! You got straight away. I felt like I was living in North Korea but worse, if that's possible.

Listen to Spiraled on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And we're back. Okay, so we are at episode two. Santa, having just fallen off the roof, is lying in the snow. But don't worry, he's not dead. He was low-key falling off, and then he fell off of the roof. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

So he returns to the North Pole. I got that. And Elf Betty is like, look, let me tell you about something called the Successes Clause, where if Santa doesn't want to be Santa anymore, he can retire and choose a successor. And Mrs. Clause really likes this idea of him retiring and betty and some of the other elves think it's a good idea too because they've been noticing his magic faltering and you know christmas spirits down all that stuff i just want to jump in really quick and say that um i what i really liked how carol's um arc which it really builds up to a uh call back to the santa claus

too that i forgot about where she fights large nutcrackers but toy soldiers yeah toy soldiers sorry my bad that was so sorry that's my political correctness getting in wow but carol her whole thing is that she's uh you know i think that a lot of people will say falls into kind of empty girl boss stereotypes but i didn't view it that way at all she's just like you know she's slowly forgetting who she was in in her earlier life and so she's kind of just like walking around yelling about that for about four episodes before anything really demonstrably changes sure i thought that was you know felt much like life yeah i i think a lot of this show is very slice of life uh when you peel

back most of the layers a bit of a modern family yeah a bit of a post-modern family even wow well holy shit this is why they pay you the big bucks yes that was good this is why they paid me they were gonna pay me a lot of money which is good because that my salary was big enough so that when i for when i decided to forego it yeah we were able to purchase the right side of the tiger. I was like, that's big bucks. That's huge. I wish I could give my kids a Christmas this year, but you know, I have the tiger. I think worth it.

I think they understand. So Santa has the idea to retire, but still be able to stay in the North Pole. And how that's going to work is he's going to have his son, Charlie, be his successor. So he visits Charlie in Florida. There's a fun little Jurassic Park reference there.

But Charlie doesn't want to do it. He's an adult now, and he has his wife and kids. And let me just say, I found Charlie's wife to be maybe a bit shrill. Wow. But I think at the end of the day, women be like that. Women famously be shrill, so that tracks. Yeah.

It's so interesting that you read that character as his wife. Oh, I'm sorry. Was that not the intention? They are two best friends platonically raising kids together. Okay. Incredibly close-minded of me. I'm so sorry. They're in a platonic marriage.

So, like, legally, it is his wife. But sexually, emotionally, they wouldn't use those terms. I see for each other and this is actually huge because Charlie in this episode is the first ever gay

Disney character who is married to a woman that he's only had sex with twice to have those children to have the kids to a woman that he's only had sex with twice. Wow. Oh, to have those children.

To have the kids. Yeah, they did have sex a few times to have the kids. Say what you will about Charlie, but the man makes his shot. And I think that that's to be applauded. I think that's incredible. Congratulations on making history in the Santa Claus. That's fucking amazing. Santa Claus is. I'm so sorry yeah and i thought again i'm like bringing my you know every man brain to to my viewing experience i thought you know for sure charlie's this isn't gonna be the

only scene he's gonna be in a scene you could cut out no problem wouldn't matter but he doesn't come back he doesn't you know and i think that that's really cool that he he made his decision he wanted to continue to peacefully co-parent in florida and and and bless him and uh we didn't hear from him again it doesn't seem like you know like many of tim holland's kids it doesn't seem like they really keep in touch yeah wasn't there a little girl from maybe santa claus three that was like his not his stepdaughter oh yeah oh it was a charlie's stepsister no well it's his mom's kid okay oh yeah yeah right anyway so scott calvin is like oh well if charlie doesn't want to become santa claus maybe my other son cal will want to become santa claus but cal doesn't want to either and neither cal nor sandra too busy playing all those damn video games right i love that arc for him yes a lot of people i think thought that uh the vr helmet was just like a a prop used in in uh promotional images to to just show that

he was this techie guy but no it's in every episode it's in every episode uh it really is we use it a lot that's kind of his whole thing damn until he's able to replace the vr in front of his face with a woman which is you know i mean those two things are interchangeable yeah sure another game for him to play i love giving him a game so saw style so cal doesn't want to be santa claus and neither cal nor sandra really like living in the north pole so they're also pro their dad retiring meanwhile christmas spirit continues to dwindle around the world and this is something that they know because there's this like christmas orb that the brighter it shines the more christmas spirit there is the duller and darker it is the less christmas spirit there is however yeah something i noticed is no matter how little

christmas spirit there seems to be the orb always looks the exact same it doesn't seem to be getting any darker or lighter was this another creative choice or it doesn't seem like they well the effect i basically you you you seem to have misunderstood the entire platform okay i'm sorry yes it is multiple times it says it's about the brightness but one time betty or cara delvin it was, and she was played by Cara. We got Cara. That is Cara. Is it like Martin Scorsese, like age technology?

How did you do that? We cut her up real good. Oh, you mean like cosmetic surgery? Yeah, we made her legs real short. Wow. Or would it be

claus-medic surgery? Yeah. Okay. Am I still in the running for a job on season two? You've got it at this point. Oh, good. You've got it, yeah. Amazing.

It's really hard not to get pissed off about this as it's happening. Yeah, sorry, Jamie. I don't mean to be gloating. No, it's all good. It's totally fine. She at one point says that she's like, look, there's a black hole in the center and it's getting bigger. So really, I think if you notice, the hole gets slightly bigger. And then all of a sudden it's just gone.

Yeah. I noticed that. I think there's just like some miscommunication. But also, that is life. So we left it in there because it is a slice of life. And magic works much like life. Of course. And the acting clearly telegraphed it because every time someone picked up the orb,

they would say something like, oh no. And you're like, well, okay, now I understand. I guess that's how I'm supposed to feel. That's a bad way for the orb to look. Even at one when noel is hiding it behind his hand and then he reveals it it kind of looks fine it looks the same well he's got he's flashing it he's got a flashlight but even when he takes the flashlight away it still looks the exact same No. Wrong. No. It unfortunately does look the same. Remember, that couldn't be the case, because we have the absolutely iconic closing shot of episode three,

where it's like 90 seconds straight of just looking at the orb. And are you telling me nothing happens during that? Are you telling me it doesn't get darker during those 90 seconds? Are you telling me we're looking at essentially a static orb with nothing happening for a minute and a half? For a minute and a half.

I don't think I would have that happen on my television show. It wouldn't. And I respect, I mean all all of the uh you know ununionized and disrespected vr artists who had to work on this show you know i i you can see that they certainly brought it to the intro the opening credits because um kitlin and i were were saying back and forth it was kind of like uh body horror i think that it is the genre i would put the opening credits in.

But it was fascinating. It was beautiful. It was a visual feast. I mean, the CGI artists, are they not unionized? That's true. But you said they were disrespected. And I just don't think that's the case. Because Tim and his friends, every time they ran into the CGI artists, would be like, you know, you got a hot pair of shoulders on you.

Oh, very complimentary. Yeah. It's like, is that sexual? I don't know. It's shoulders. Like, I don't think so. I think that was just a nice thing to say. I don't know.

It's shoulders. And that's a classic Hollywood phrase.wood phrase you hear it you hear that around all the time you've got good shoulders on your shoulders yeah um okay so santa claus decides to officially retire for the sake of his family he wants to spend more time with his family and he announces this to his elves they all throw a fit meanwhile cal pen is still trying to figure out a way to solve his company's package delivery problem and he wants to see if he can figure out a way to recreate santa's delivery system and then one of the elves ed i believe is her name goes to cal pen and abducts him and his daughter grace

and brings them to the north pole that's how episode two ends yeah fun okay episode three entitled into the wobbly woods so oh here we come here comes a plot witch oh yes oh yes santa is packing up he's gearing up to leave cal pen and his daughter grace are now at the north pole santa interviews cal pen because he is a candidate to be a possible santa replacement as is who is that guy peyton manningning some Peyton Manning yes oh come on that was hilarious oh sorry it was pretty good I was cracking up I I understood every joke and referenced his personal and public life when he said hey don't let my wife know I was like oh yeah that's Peyton Manning all right uh-huh they just saying, did he cheat on his wife? This is a serious question.

Were they joking about how he has cheated on his wife? What was that joke about? No, the joke was about how he is very devoted to his wife. Oh, well, then I was laughing for the right reasons. I just wanted to make sure I wasn't being. And also, this Peyton Manning sequence, by God, you could see why this man is the greatest stand-up comedian of all time. Because he was just so on the ball. Wow.

He was so energized. That guy was, you know, he must have ad-libbed one or two jokes even. Incredible. Oh, my God. When he said Brady, I stood up and cheered that's that alan magic baby i was beside myself i was like you know and it's kind of like you know as as a comedian myself sometimes i can i find it really amazing to watch someone you know working at that caliber but then there are moments and i think this was one of them where you just it's almost like

discouraging because you see that and you're just like well i could never do that i mean what's the fucking point you know i i got to see i had the pleasure of getting to see tim you know mentor some of the younger actors on set not actresses just actors and he was he was talking to the the kid we got playing his son cal yeah um who was also you know getting into stand-up oh and he said listen he said listen listen kid this is my number one tip about doing stand-up comedy and the kid was like what and he goes don't do it oh and that that was inspiring to me because he was basically challenging this young man to not listen to him and and prove himself by still going out and doing it.

Yeah. And I've been seeing him at open mics, so. Yeah. Really? He's out there. He's doing it. Oh, that's amazing. Yeah.

I bet he has some good ideas. Would you say that he's got, like, did Tim's politics rub off on him again? I kind of, you know, that would be kind of awesome. I mean, listen, i see the whole cast every sunday i'll see them we're recording on a sunday so i'll see them later today at church at our like oh no at our romney 2024 planning meetings oh cool i mean a church can be anything you know wow yeah well um so here's what happens next is that the interview that cal gives to be a new a possible new santa doesn't go well but then his daughter grace gets lost or they think that she's lost, even though she's with Sandra.

But Santa and Kalpen go looking for her in the wobbly woods. And guess who lives there? A Christmas witch. Christmas witch. Sorry, not Christmas switch, which is sort of like a princess switch. In my freaking dreams. A Christmas witch. And she takes Santa and Kalpen to her house, which is where Grace and Sandra are,

because Sandra wanted to talk to the witch because Sandra has just discovered that she can hear animals talk, which is where we get the amazing, iconic reindeer voiced by... Cuba Gooding Jr. You're my best friend. As John gazey yeah and and during this this you know adventure in the wobbly woods santa realizes that cal pen actually should be santa he would make a great santa and so he's like cal pen do it and he's like okay i'll do it so and also in one of the many kind of feminist side quests that i'm sure tim couldn't have been happy about but grace i was really heartened to see it. Sandra hangs out with the witch.

This is not paid off on, but it's just something for us to know that she hangs out with the witch because her parents don't understand her. Well, yeah. Also, the witch teaches her about womanhood and just is a really important resource. The witch is kind of the planned parenthood of

the north pole and she does have all the secrets yeah all of the all of the tools and resources yeah yeah meanwhile mrs claus has forgotten what everything is and um she's not really able to parent right now she's she yeah yeah so the witch is kind of her mother um yeah and doctor that was gorgeous and everything taking on all roles i like i liked the witch also i just wanted to shout out in episode three um caitlin you pointed this out to me in our texts as one of your favorites, and I just wanted to make sure you got the opportunity to compliment Grace or the Blood Quantum guy. I'm not really sure. But NFTs, Nutty Fudgy Tea Cakes. Yes.

Oh, that was me. That was 100% me. That was you. I mean, well played. I think NFTs are just such a funny thing to joke about and also a great investment. Not a lot of things that are fun to joke about and also a great investment. I would say pretty much just NFTs and healthy relationships. Wow.

Damn. Damn. There she goes again. Blowing my freaking mind. yeah yeah um so now that santa has found his replacement he's like okay i'm ready to go the elves give him a send-off i think this is the elves just want to have fun dance like break dancing no this is doesn't isn't it like last christmas oh that's right okay oh yeah another expensive i think there's a total of three elf dancing sequences because there's also a really menacing one in the last episode where the elves

are just coming slowly coming toward the calvin family and then they spell Satan instead of Santa, which I did laugh at. And it's important too, because it just shows, this is kind of Noel's big time to shine, who is Santa's best friend and married to the head elf. Yeah. And his kind of arc is,

is realizing that like he should spend more time with his wife. Mirroring Santa's arc. I will say, something that's never worked for me in this franchise is having children pretend to be in centuries-long marriages together. It's just never quite hit for me, but I know people's mileage will vary on that. Well, you know, we never had marriage be a part of it until until the show and we decided to have marriage be a thing that we bring up constantly in this show um and i think

it works we'll never forget how in the first movie scott calvin says something to a child playing an elf and then she thinks that he's hitting on her and she says no thanks I'm seeing someone in wrapping so elf dating but not marriage yeah

elf marriage was legalized relatively recently at our North Pole that's kind of their version of gay marriage. Now, being gay is still not a thing up there. Okay. Okay. Yeah. I mean, they're a couple centuries behind.

Yeah. Okay. So Santa and his family leave. Well, they're transported magically to Chicago to live their new non-Santa lives. And that's how episode three ends. Episode four, entitled The Shoes Off the Bed Clause, which is a reference to a throwaway line that has nothing to do with anything. What is that a reference to? I struggled with that.

So there's a scene, well, if I may, Grace, not to explain your show in front of you. There's a moment where Scott Calvin is talking to Carol and he's like, my whole life has just been, or I guess my career as Santa has been a series of clauses. And so he's then, he then recaps the first three movies. And then he's like,

I don't even like, he's basically just conflicted about like his career as Santa. And then also what he's supposed to do now. And she's like, well, you still got the shoes off the bed clause because they're sitting on a bed. And I guess he has his shoes on and i think that's her way of telling him to get his shoes off the bed that was my

interpretation can you confirm or deny see this is dense great well i would say that that's all correct okay but if you if you call it a throwaway line... My mistake. Not only do I think you don't get the show, I don't think you get how writing works. Hey, Grace, could I just say really quick, I didn't think it was a throwaway line. I thought it was important. I take full responsibility. well i think that the race that might have a for the for a job on season two might have a a new host of the vectal cast in the lead okay now i should note that i'm just talking about

the race between you two the broader race of writers we're considering many are in front but oh when it comes to youtube specifically okay so we're like in a game of mario kart where we're neck and neck 11th and 12th place yeah that's great yeah and sometimes i get a couple feet ahead i mean that's a great that's a great analogy you keep going there and you might almost get the job man oh. I'm sorry. I just, I'm just trying to get into Cal's head because he loves video games so much, you know, because I just love this. I just love this show and the world it builds and the world it builds and then ignores. Wow. Brown noser.

Okay. Okay. So what happens then, Caitlin? I'll tell you. Okay. So episode four, Sho the bed claws uh we're at the north pole cal penn's character is ready to put on the santa coat and become santa claus but oh no the santa coat is missing he gives a speech to the elves betty and noel again they're

the married ones uh hate this new santa and betty is all like where is your coat you shithead and he's like i don't know i lost it and then also he's like i have an idea what if christmas was every day 365 days a year which i sort of was like that was an episode of the fairly odd parents but i appreciated i thought it was kind of an homage to that oh yeah yeah um in the universe of the santa claus's the fairly odd parents doesn't exist oh oh see so that's why there's so many things that are different due to the global impact of the fairly odd parents yes yeah the only the only um intellectual properties that exist in the Santa Claus universe are other Disney-owned properties. So, you know, there's a reference to Buzz Lightyear. There's many Star Wars references.

There are many Marvel references. And I think that's brave. Yes. It was a challenge given to us by the executives. And honestly, they said we did a little too much and that made me feel really good see i disagree i i uh i could have used more i heard tell that there's a deleted scene where scott calvin's talking to a man in chicago and the man says the phrase star trek to him and then Scott Calvin holds him against a wall

and spits in his face and says, I don't know what you're fucking talking about and then pushes him over. Is that true? That's not a scene we shot, but it is a thing that happened on set. Okay. Thank you.

Thank you. God, these Hollywood gossips, I mean, on Dumois, they really catch everything. It's wild. Wow. Yeah. Okay. In Chicago, Scott Calvin and his family are trying to adjust to their new lives.

Sandra makes some friends. She also talks to a horse. I wanted her to have her horse. The girls are thriving in Chicago. Sandra's a horse girl. It was really genuinely nice to see Carol be loved, appreciated, and accepted by her community again. And I just wondered as I was watching. I couldn't help but wonder.

Will this all be completely taken away from her in a matter of days? Yes. Yes. It is true. And I think we all know that it is our responsibility like we as women are here to have things taken from us is that good or bad it just is just another question that the show poses that doesn't happen but it happens it certainly happens yeah a woman's place is at the pole people have been

saying that for generations um okay so yes uh sandra is making some friends some of them are with human girls some of them are with horses cal he loves ordinary human stuff he also has a crush on a girl from school carol is looking to get a job as a school principal again at a charter school which i thought was a little fun dash of evil yeah i mean you know my kids go to charter schools uh again i'm so fucking embarrassed caitlin took the lead again me and the other some other parents in my neighborhood mostly who work in tv and film uh we did not like that we couldn't completely control the elementary school the public elementary school and our so we formed a charter school together with some of our own money and a lot of the government's money it was pretty

easy to get our hands on actually uh nice uh pretty much just our kids get to go to it okay very exclusive that's amazing and and it really works for our family okay okay i guess what i'm saying is what did you mean dash of evil oh no i i said Dash of Awesome. It's the AirPods. Dash of Awesome. And then she wants to be the principal of a charter school. What a Dash of Awesome. Yeah. Yeah.

It's phrases like that that I could bring to season two. That's a real Dash of Awesome. Yeah. That's great. I love that phrase. Really? I'm going to start using it all of the time maybe a good episode title i don't know hey am dash of awesome am am are you here hey am fuck i don't even know if

i'm gonna remember it now don't worry we're recording this we're recording oh i forgot yeah i just really want to tell them that okay but you know it's kind of funny because m hates that i i wanted to send the kids to a charter school they think that's bad um so relationships are tough you know and that's so much of what the show is about yeah whether you're elves or you're scott calvin and mrs. Who gives a shit where your first name is, is where the show kind of lands. Yeah. Exactly.

Or you're a very special elf that we're about to get to. I can't. Okay. So the rest of Scott Calvin's family is thriving in their new Chicago lives. But Scott Calvin is like, wow, I guess since I'm not Santa anymore I'm not special and then he ends up getting a job as an everything now delivery driver but then he gets fired shortly thereafter and so he's like oh my gosh what do I even do with my life now in the North Pole Betty and Noel are trying to stop Cal Penn Santa who is just like wiling out as Santa Claus and the elves realize that this new Santa is destroying Christmas spirit even further and

some of the elves are disappearing either like off screen or we see some of them like vanish into thin air before our very eyes really cool cg there where when an elf disappears i'll kind of just stop in place and go and they'll dissolve into the air i liked that i thought that was really cool to get to get the kids, the elves, to give authentically scared reactions to that, we locked them in dark rooms for a couple of days. Whoa. That's intense. So that they could experience the void. They had water.

Well, wait. I just want to make sure that this is. And they had bread. I just want to make sure everyone's taken care of. You would have their tutors go into the dark room and teach them, right? They have to go to school. It doesn't matter how much light is in the room. That's my understanding.

Well, that's why we did it on the weekend. Oh, and that is legal. Okay, amazing. Cool, cool, cool. Got it. And also, they learned a lot. The darkness is a clever professor

wow thank you Neil Gaiman the darkness is my tutor loneliness can be the greatest tutor of all I'm about to get that tattooed on my back and post it to tumblr holy shit

wow good stuff okay so then cal penn santa fires betty and then so she goes to the christmas witch and says hey i need to get in touch with him but not scott calvin the other him and we're hmm, wonder if she's talking about Bernard. And guess what? She is. Because the episode ends with back in Chicago. Scott is like, OK, family, let's spend Christmas together. But then time freezes and some mysterious person has come to pay Scott a visit.

I'm kicking the air at this point. Ooh, who could it be? There was a moment where I knew who it was, but I was like, what if it's Neil? What if it's Neil? That would be upsetting. It's not Neil. Kind of wanted it to be Neil,

but I was happy it was Bernard. That would be pretty great. And, you know, there were versions of the script where it was Neil as a hanukkah harry type character oh cool but movies weren't brave enough to have a jewish character but we probably were going to be but we got the no we got a solid no on that from various different people above me um all right well i was thrilled to see bernard return yes and of course he could still get it after all these years yes okay so this is episode five now across the yule verse i love that i was

like you know just introduce a multiverse plot at this point might as well i was saying to myself and then they did but it's but you know i think you know the name of that would suggest it's a multiverse, but it actually isn't at all. It actually is just a room. So could you explain that? So are you Catholic? Thank you so much for asking. No, I went to a Protestant congregational church as a child. Okay.

And now I own one. Are you Catholic, Caitlin? No, I was raised as an atheist. Brag. So neither of you are confirmed in the Catholic Church? That is true. We should have... I think that it would be inappropriate for me to explain to you the inner workings of how this mythology works.

Because it's really stuff you're only supposed to know if you're confirmed in the church. Oh, okay. And my priest is already pretty mad at me about the trans stuff. I don't want him to get pissed at me about spilling the beans here too. But I think any Catholic who sees episode five of the Santa Clauses will understand it pretty easy. Okay. Okay. All right. Thank you. I mean, thank you for doing that because I like, I'm always trying to learn and that's why I keep coming back to this franchise year after year is to learn and and that's that's really cool I will I will say that one note we've gotten

uh from the fans is if Scott's the first human Santa Claus what about the saint who became Santa the first Santa wasn't he human wow and then people also ask what do you mean other real beings what were the other what does that mean what are they angels are they what does that term mean they're just like general mystical creatures if if they are mystical and magical why did there have to be multiple of them through the years um interesting well these are some questions that the show does kind of answer right the the answer the show gives is like each santa is there for its specific time period but the real answer is found in the glory of and perfection of the Catholic Church's mysticism and writing. I see. God.

All right. Well, the explanation the show gives we're about to get to, because what happens is this mysterious person who has showed up to visit Scott Calvin is Bernard the Elf. And the show explains why he looks to be about 44 years old because that's how old david krumholz is the explanation the show gives is that bernard fell in love with a human woman and gave up being an immortal elf and so that's why he has aged but not just any human woman vanessa red vanessa redgrave i mean i we have no choice but to you know really be rooting for this relationship i wish yeah i wish that we now season two this is a pitch i think we should see them have sex oh listen if you're watching the if you're if you're if your eyes are peeled

in the last episode you might get a little glimpse of it in the background. No way. Geez, I missed it. I don't want to give away every Easter egg, but the scene where Cal goes to the snow globe warehouse, let's just say one of those snow globes might have Bernard absolutely giving it to Vanessa from the front and then the back and then in the mouth wow they really found each other i think that that is so like aspirational

it's nice um incredible uh okay and then i like that scott said no she's an oscar winner and i was like well i didn't know that and i come here to learn wow i'm here to laugh to cry to care to learn wow okay yeah so bernard is like oh scott calvin you think it was mere coincidence that you became santa claus and then he takes scott into the yule verse which we thought was a santa mult, but apparently that is incorrect, and we won't know the answer. Not even a little bit. Unless we're Catholic, so I'm starting the process of converting to Catholicism as we speak. But until then, it is what seems like a multiverse. And there, Scott meets some of the previous Santas, including the one he replaced, as well as Krampus and St. Nicholas himself.

And it turns out that Scott becoming Santa was no accident. He was chosen as the first human Santa Claus so that he would raise a family in the north pole and that his kids would develop magic powers question mark and they also and also because because he could do technology because he yeah because yes because apparently the elves are really good at tech stuff but santa the immortal angel creature is santa yeah and And when I say apparently, I mean, these are decisions we made in the room. Yeah. Right, right, right. And good decisions.

I think they are, I would call them a dash of awesome, to borrow Jamie's phrase. Thank you for crediting. I appreciate that. Yeah, of course, of course. And I found myself during this episode wondering, what happened to the council that we met two movies in a row? That is a great question. With the holiday character council. But then, you know, by the end of the episode, I found myself thinking, and let me know if this was the intent, Grace.

Eh, who cares? Yeah. And that's kind of where I left it. We didn't get to get into it this season, but essentially paganism has been defeated by the time of the santa claus's series and catholicism has won um and mother earth and her demon um cohort uh have died and been buried uh under a mountain of ice wow wow. Wow. Well, thank you. Thank you for that. I got to rewatch it again,

you know, with fresh eyes. That's really exciting. Now having that knowledge. Yeah. Okay. So Scott Calvin was chosen as Santa for these incredible reasons. And then all the Santas are like,

Scott, you got to go back to the North Pole and save Christmas. So he back to the North Pole and save Christmas. So he heads to the North Pole with Noel to confront Cal Penn Santa, who puts Scott in Santa jail, along with this elf named Gary, who is like an elf cop. Oh, Gary. Grace, I got to be honest. Gary, I was having a hard time with gary i and it's not the actor's fault i blame the direction on this one to be honest because he's talking like they're trying to make a 12 year old talk like he's been smoking since he served in the vietnam

war and it just like doesn't quite work he's like hey santa and he does that like for you know for three episodes and i was i was struggling with it to be honest thanks for telling me that it's interesting to hear that you think it doesn't work because it does well see i was gonna say i do think it works and maybe that pulls me into 11th spot again i think you're at least neck and neck okay okay i shouldn't have said anything and i'm i'm so i think it's just i let my feelings for crouton and how fond i am of that character with three lines but for some reason they put her name every time someone speaks to her they say thanks crouton and she goes no problem yeah every elf thing. Yeah. Hers is her name's Crouton. Yes.

Okay, so meanwhile, back in Chicago, Carol, Sandra, and Cal are also trying to get to the North Pole to help using Christmas magic that Sandra and Cal do have, a.k.a. Sandra's ability to talk to animals, which has already been set up several times. And Cal's is like GPS? Cal has the ability to see the Christmas vortexes that allow Santa to teleport around the world.

However, this is only just now established in this very moment, whereas Sandra's magic had been previously established. And I thought that was a really interesting creative choice as well. Centering women. Well, we did say earlier in the series that Cal was having weird dreams where he was Santa. Yeah. Is that the same thing as being able to see these portals? In opinion yes so i just thought that was a puberty thing i don't know like

you know when kids hit puberty they start to dream about being santa just felt like a normal i certainly went through that phase yeah yeah they start to dream about being santa you know what i'm saying yeah delivering their package huh yeah okay so yeah don't be crude is what i'm saying jb could you not be crude about this show for families no i'm so i'm i'm really sorry i didn't that was crass and i think i just got the wrong idea of the tone when the first episode was called good to hoe and sometimes i just like i'm trying to figure out where the line is well you know you can't always judge a TV series by the name of its episode and how the characters act. That's very true.

And everything that happens in it. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So I think we're in episode six now, which is titled A Christmas to Remember, where Scott's family shows up at the North Pole. And with the help of Noel, they break Scott out of Santa jail. Meanwhile Cal Penn discovers that whoever wears Santa's coat controls the North Pole as if he didn't already control it. So Cal Penn is looking for the coat. He's yelling at his daughter Grace.

He's being extra scary but the coat had run away to the Christmas witch's house. Crawled away, really. Kind of has like a battle crawl. Kind of army crawled. Yeah. Moved pretty slow, too. Not moving very fast. Kind of shocking no one saw it leaving.

Right? Yeah. So Scott and his family go to look for the coat. But Cal Penn has unleashed the army of toy soldiers from Santa Claus 2? Yes. Is that correct? Okay. But Carol kicks their ass, which is, I guess, a callback also to Santa Claus 2. Well, what I really liked about that sequence is that she sort of...

What's helpful for me about episode 6 is that as people are doing things, they're stating the theme that they're addressing as they're doing it. So like Carol, you know, if I didn't if I wasn't told this at length, oh, I have a name now. I am annoyed. I have had it. Nice to see you again you know it's like I'm given all the information I need and I actually find that if that had been given to me over time or like in a visually interesting way I wouldn't have liked it I like I like the lady from lost just being like I know that I wanted to be girl boss Santa but that I was dead ass wrong. I actually don't want a career. I don't want friends. I like my life that I hated as it was exactly the same because you'll think, you know, you'll

think, I mean, maybe this is a season two question. If Carol stays there, she'll just forget her name again. But we don't know. Yeah. None of that's interesting to me um but but what was interesting was the toy soldiers you know have been locked in that closet sent santa claus to you and they're sentient so they've just been locked in that darkness as i said earlier we made all the elves who get disappeared be locked in

dark rooms for just a couple of days over the weekend when they put two and two together and saw that that is what had been done to these soldiers they started weeping and crying and vomiting and it actually lost us a couple of days of filming because of that oh gee wow shout out to the reindeer named vomit that's a fun little that's comedy yeah yeah yeah it is okay so scott and cal pen both come across the santa coat at the same time but cal pen gets to it first and he's about to destroy it so as to prevent scott calvin from becoming santa again but then his daughter, Kalpen's daughter, Grace, shows up. And now I'm just now putting together that, well, I'm speculating here. But Grace, did you name that character, Grace, after yourself?

I did. Because my dad died when I was young. And I was like, well, what if this was a version of me whose mom died? And I feel like if my mom had died, you know, my dad would probably not have been an alcoholic anymore. And basically it started Amazon. So that was kind of the concept of the character. Okay. So Grace, the character, shows up.

And she's like, Kal Penn, you're being a really bad dad. And he's like, oh, damn, you're right. And so he kind of like concedes. But then the North Pole kind of like rumbles a little bit as if it's in danger. And so they're like, oh, gosh, we have to find the Christmas orb. And they find it, but it's completely dark now, which means the Christmas spirit has completely run out and Scott's like oh my gosh this is my fault I shouldn't have retired I shouldn't have

run away when things got a little difficult and so he brings everyone in for a hug his whole family the remaining elves and Cal Penn's character and his daughter grace and that hug revives the christmas spirit and then all the elves who had vanished reappear and christmas is saved but oh no christmas is in three hours so scott puts on the santa coat and becomes s again. Okay, but can we talk about that effect though? That effect where Tim Allen's face is completely still. It's not showing an emotion. But something something happened there. Something really took place. I can't really describe it. You know, I think some of the most beautiful things you'll see in your life you can't necessarily put into words. Yeah, yeah, exactly exactly. Words cannot describe the absolute beauty we see during this sequence.

But yeah, so Scott is transformed back into Santa and he takes his whole family with him to deliver gifts around the world for all the children. And that's how season one ends. Not just any gifts, though. Snow globes with Christmas memories. The snow globes with the Christmas memories in them. Including the one where Bernard is having sex with.

Yeah. One kid is about to have a difficult. Does this expose magic to the world? A bit, I think. Maybe. We'll see. We'll see in season two. But also, I think that it might just

suggest to these families that the panopticon has won so season two will have you guys seen homeland yeah no yeah mandy patankin i season two of the santa cla is going to have big Homeland vibes. Nice. Oh, that's so great. I just, look, I just like, don't count us out. We would love to, like, we get that this is an unconventional episode of our show. It's more of a kind of a behind the scenes promotion for art. We here at the Boxbook has love to promote art we believe in. You know, it comes down to the samples, you know?

Your reps are going to send your samples in, and I'm going to read the first two or three pages of those and a few dozen others. And we'll see which first couple of pages really hit. Wow. Okay. No, totally. Well, look, I do have a question and it's does this pass the does this pass the back to grace can you actually give us some

insight into that um i do think in fact it does pass the bechdel test maybe even a couple of times i was getting that feeling one specific time is does it pass the petal test when mrs claus is talking to like the head elf and she's like has there been a head elf before or no has there been a mrs claus before and i think they only talk about mrs claus yeah i think yeah i love it's a good pass because they're talking about how her character doesn't really exist uh really which I think is fascinating. Yeah. I thought that was really cool. I believe it also passes between

Mrs. Claus and Crouton. It does. A time or two. Crouton's like, may I please have a hug? They also talk about monogrammed towels. That's true. And I think when Sandra talks to that one reindeer,

I do think that responds, you're my best friend. That does pass the Bechdel test. Even though it's a male coded reindeer. But it's not. It is not a male reindeer. Great. Oh, my God. Genius.

But you don't know that because you didn't see the reindeer sex scene that was in there when we had that subplot still in. Right, right. Hopefully there's a, I mean, you could use that footage in a snow globe later. So, you know, no waste. Yes. I think it also passes between Sandra and the witch. It actually kind of passes a lot. And then also there's an elf we haven't talked about before, the woke elf, Edie.

Oh, yeah. She's a bit too woke for her own good. There's no longer a naughty list. It's the misunderstood list. Yeah. That made me think. That really made me think. I hope everyone who watches the show, when they saw that scene, they were thinking, the

show is saying saying this is good yeah yeah so the the show which takes a pretty hard stance against wokeness for lack of a better term um so bizarre yeah thinks that that's awesome let me just read a couple other lines uh from the show yeah and then to be to be clear grace we are like loving this is a list of things we loved yeah these are my these are the best parts of the show yeah when when scott calvin is like we can't set deer free in cities hipsters will just put fedoras on them yeah that that was really awesome um someone says to scott Calvin, it might have been Noel. He's like, what kind of monster eats a carrot?

And then Scott Calvin says, hippies and vegans. Hippie vegans. And he says that with disgust, as he should. There's the, yeah. Oh, some people might say that labeling a child as naughty just for having a temper tantrum is brat shaming um and so that was another good line tell them there's the famously the uh house christmas spirit and santa says oh fine except saying merry christmas to all has suddenly become problematic yeah so i mean you know end of the day this country was founded on certain principles

i think we we simply strive to replicate that in our show sure that genuinely sounds like a hollywood reporter headline head writer of the santa clauses this country was founded on certain principles it's the truth on santa principles it's god singular it's god's honest truth yeah oh any other any other uh good ones caitlin well um these are just some of my favorite just flat out jokes okay because the comedy in this show is rich non-stop um when the elves say elves got an elf many times um wait just a taffy licking minute i wrote that down too oh the doctor says i have ass acute squawk syndrome um funny let's see oh santa says i've got the body of an mma fighter not an m&m eater i also loved that you you can tell Santa is doing a bad job if he gets fucking jacked. That logic totally scanned for me.

And I didn't find the clear, bizarre prosthetics that Tim Allen was wearing to make himself look jacked. I didn't find those alarming. I found them uplifting and maybe even a few other things. But Grace said it's a kid's show. Well, I would say the show's whole approach to body image and fat positivity and things like that. I would say the show's handling all these things very, very well and responsibly. In almost every episode, I would say that. Yeah. It comes up in every episode and it always goes well and it always is really good and awesome yeah wow i simply couldn't

ask for a better christmas present than my two good friends jamie and caitlin going through all of the best jokes from my big television show hey wait just a taffy like a minute which is gonna be an issue because if if m doesn't if i if i don't get a better present from my partner on actual christmas i'm gonna i'm gonna fucking i'm gonna yell i'm gonna be so i'm gonna be so mad oh don't yeah i don't want that to happen you've said that you've set the bar so high i just don't know if they'll be able to jump over it if you could just like not let em know that we had this conversation okay i'm not okay i won't yell but i i'm not i can't stop myself from crying that's involuntaryary. Okay. Okay. Okay. See, that's maybe, and I hope that we do get more crying in Santa Claus's season two.

Yes. I really do. I hope we get Neil in season two. I'm crossing my fingers for Neil. And Linda, if we're lucky. Was her name Linda? Am I remembering that correctly? Oh, his ex-wife?

Yes. His ex-wife. His ex-wife. I don't think I would give her a name in our show. Oh, yeah. Take it away. So I kind of, yeah. She divorced Santa.

Yeah. Neil heads. I think if Judge Reinhold. You found it. Can find it in his heart to apologize to tim allen for voting for obama in 2012 then we might get a little bit of a neil sighting next season i hope that he apologizes and if if i if if tim's reputation is as i believe it is he's gonna make judge apologize in canonically on camera for doing that.

I think so. I think so. Yeah. I wonder, I wonder, I mean, Tim must've been given Cal Penn a hard time, real hard time,

which might've been one of the reasons why Cal again, tried to assassinate him a number of times on set. Right. The drama. God. I mean, Caitlin, I know you have to go relatively soon right that's true okay look i i mean does anyone else have final sort of notes to make on this because it's like i mean i could i could keep going i have so many time to give a nipple grade

right yeah i think so i'm giving this a show that I made 10 nips out of 10. Wow. Okay. There's only five you can give, but I think that feels right. It feels right. I'm going to give it 10 as well. Oh,

okay. Well, since my candidacy as a staff writer on season two of the Santa Claus is, is at stake, I will also be giving it 10 out of 10 nipples. Cause that's famously our scale. Caitlin, you could have given it 11 and taken the lead. I was hoping you were going to actually do an 11.

Oh, no. See, Grace, we're so on the same page, and that's why I really feel like I'm going to give it for the job. Oh, my gosh. Look, let me just pay one last compliment to the show. I really thought, and we already hinted at this, but I thought the characterization of, of Mrs. Claus, of Carol and her inner struggle of, Oh, who am I?

I've lost my identity because I've just kind of been wrapped, so wrapped up as Mrs. Claus. And, and I, and were there even Mrs. Claus's's before me you know she's doing some investigating she's she's active in the pursuit of knowledge yeah she doesn't like how mrs claus's have been perceived in the past she's like what somehow i'm humorless while still providing comic relief and providing comic relief is famously mrs claus's role there so that all makes sense but you know she just doesn't like that she's this underappreciated uh figure in christmas lore and then she's like you know what i'm gonna take this opportunity to be a school principal again and then that which she was happy doing before she met scott right and but

then she realizes wait a minute i shouldn't have a job or an identity of my own because i'm santa's wife yeah his wife i thought that was amazing and she and that's good one thing i thought was really cool in terms of just like not doing the obvious thing was like okay you have mrs claus and you have this christmas witch right and yeah and they're both judged pretty harshly based on old gendered tropes and i thought maybe they'll talk about this but then they never talk to each other once and there's actually a couple that i think at the climactic scene they're standing next to each other but they never speak and i thought that yes the restraint was really cool i thought it was awesome that would have just taken up unnecessary space in the show we don't need to be well it's more so that we wanted to make a commentary on we wanted to comment on how maybe women should be more active in freeing themselves of these bad things.

Yeah. And it was a choice for them not to talk to each other. And maybe, you know, maybe that's on them. That's on them. Yeah, absolutely. They should have leaned in harder. Well. But yeah, watch the Santa Clauses, everybody.

It's on Disney Plus now. And there's going to be a season two if TV still exists next year so that's gonna rock wow is there anything else you would like to plug Grace yeah uh Girl God is my comedy duo uh with April Clark and we we've got a like i don't know follow me on twitter if that's still a thing i don't even i don't know how to promote things right now uh oh we're gonna be in vancouver in uh february so am i oh are you gonna be at jfl no i don't get invited to things like that um but i'll just be there hanging out, doing some shows. Hell yeah.

Well, we're going to be sharing about Fred Cooper. So that'll be fun. And we're also going to be at the Kennedy Center on like February 11th, I think, in DC. And then we got this big other thing happening after that. And yeah, you know, be on the lookout for that. Okay. Go out forever, baby. Yeah.

Thank you for having me, guys. Oh, my gosh. Thanks for coming, guys. This is one of us. I'm so glad we'll have a whole other season to talk about. It is starting to feel like, I mean i mean like what's the word for a good curse is it just a tradition i think so you called me neil gaiman earlier the darkness is my mentor grace what's the word for a good curse is it just a tradition yeah imagine if i had a bird head and then that would be really

fucking profound wow and then i mean you can catch jamie and i fingers crossed as writers on season two of the santa clauses you can also um follow us on social media at bechtel cast come see us on social media at Bechtelcast. Come see us on tour. Come see us on tour on the West Coast. We're going to be in LA, San Francisco at Sketchfest and we'll be in Portland and Seattle. You can still get some tickets although they're running rather low. Sorry. Act fast.

Yeah. And then we've also got our Patreon at patreon.com slash Bechtelcast cast two bonus episodes every single month plus access to the back catalog for five american dollars a month it's true oh i just wanted to say too that uh the star of the santa clausus himself tim allen is on twitter do not please don't follow him please don't follow him please don't check that out he's only got bad ideas please no he's got good ideas i didn't say he had bad ideas i'm sorry listen to this just don't go check it out no problem thank you well good ideas such as uh what is it carl

marx wikipedia communism carl marx wikipedia if you say that over and over and over fast and faster and faster and faster you will start to float off the ground like Scott Calvin does when he's good to hoe yeah and it's sick as hell it's fucking cool well another perfect episode and also our TeePublic store is at teepublic.com slash thebechtelcast

and there's some new designs that Jamie designed so scoot on over there check those out grab some shirts and some pillows and whatnot and um hey we'll see you in the new year and grace well uh you'll be back next year whether you like it or not i am i i buy we we forge our chains in life don't we yes like the hot dog stand we wear the chains we forge in life heart agree

alright on that note Merry Christmas to all no that's problematic now you can't say that anymore Grace you can't season's greetings happy holidays okay bye bye Season's greetings. Happy holidays. Okay, bye.

Bye. Bye. Daphne Caruana Galizia was a Maltese investigative journalist who on October 16th, 2017, was assassinated. Crooks Everywhere unearths the plot to murder a one-woman WikiLeaks. She exposed the culture of crime and corruption that were turning her beloved country into a mafia state. Listen to Crooks Everywhere on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

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