The Bechdel Cast - The Social Network with Demi Adejuyigbe

Episode Date: March 5, 2020

Let the hacking begin on this episode where Jamie, Caitlin, and special guest Demi Adejuyigbe discuss The Social Network live at SF Sketchfest!(This episode contains spoilers)For Bechdel bonuses, sign up for our Patreon at patreon.com/bechdelcast.Follow @electrolemon on Twitter. While you're there, you should also follow @BechdelCast, @caitlindurante and @jamieloftusHELP  Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Daphne Caruana Galizia was a Maltese investigative journalist who on October 16th 2017 was assassinated. Crooks Everywhere unearthed the plot to murder a one-woman WikiLeaks. She exposed the culture of crime and corruption that were turning her beloved country into a mafia state. Listen to Crooks Everywhere on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Kay hasn't heard from her sister in seven years. I have a proposal for you. Come up here and document my project. All you need to do is record everything like you always do. What was that?

That was live audio of a woman's nightmare. Can Kay trust her sister or is history repeating itself? There's nothing dangerous about what you're doing. They're just dreams. Dream Sequence is a new horror thriller

from Blumhouse Television, iHeartRadio, and Realm. Listen to Dream Sequence on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Curious about queer sexuality,

cruising, and expanding your horizons? Hit play on the sex-positive and deeply entertaining podcast or wherever you pursue your true goals. You can listen to Sniffy's Cruising Confessions, sponsored by Gilead, now on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts. New episodes every Thursday. On the Bechdelcast, the questions asked if movies have women in them. Are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands or do they have individualism? The patriarchy's effing vast start changing it with the bechdel cast hi welcome to the bechdel cast

wow san francisco how are you there it's a light excitement yeah thanks for coming my name is Caitlin Durante oh geez my name is Remy Loftus thank you and yeah we're this is our second year at SF Sketch Fest we're very happy to be here indeed yeah um I don't do you have what do you have any san francisco thoughts i was like themed thoughts for the evening well we uh spent a lot of time figuring out what movie to do we're like geez what could we do well but in all seriousness last year we were like not thinking about location so we did like a movie that took

place and we did the breakfast club last year which takes place in chicago where was anyone oh that's a good question was anyone here at our show last year yes oh the rest of you are fucking fake that was a test and you failed but yeah so so this year we chose a movie that at least partially takes place in this area nearby yeah i'm i'm very curious because i i think that um it's possible that some people in the audience outweigh us in uh knowledge for the context of this movie does anyone here uh work in tech or has worked in tech or been traumatized had your life traumatized by the tech industry. Just cheer, just cheer. Okay, so everybody.

More people that have listened to the show. Okay, I'm very excited to hear your insights. I love a good tech dystopia story. Yes. There are not enough of them. I know. I'm not local to them. I want to know.

So is anyone here new to the show? Has anyone not listened to the show before? Don't be shy. Anyone? Wow. Someone in the second row. We're going to come into the audience like cats. My cat fatigue. My cat.

Ineffable. Oh, I wish we were talking about cats. What an easier discussion to have um okay great well this is a uh feminist movie podcast where we use the bechdel test sometimes called the bechdel wallace test to start a discussion about how women are portrayed in famous movies. Caitlin, what's the Bechdel test? I'd love to tell you. Thank you. It is sometimes called the Bechdel-Wallace test. I said that.

Oh, you did? Shit. Yes, thank you for listening to me. Jesus. I'm so sorry. It's okay. I just said Jesus. It doesn't pass.

Oh, no. But what if Jesus is a woman it's an ariana grande b-side also comma jesus is a woman anyway the bechdel test if you're not familiar uh requires that two female identifying characters in a movie talk to each other about something other than a man. And by our standards, it just has to be a two-line exchange of dialogue. Yes. Do movies pass it?

Not this one. Wait. Not a fair and second round. I have an example of something that I hope passes. Go off. Hey, Jamie. Hey, Caitlin. Let the hacking begin oh that still gets

a bodily risk a full body response from me and i don't even like i feel nothing for mark zuckerberg or jesse eisenberg but when but when he says let the hacking begin and he flexes his little fingers and you're like ew but like oh what is going on why do i feel that way he's getting ready to like put sexist things on the internet and i'm still like oh it's bad we're all flawed we're all growing it's fine yeah yeah we're doing the social network by the way we're doing the social network uh oh yeah and uh clap if you uh have seen this movie okay and has anybody not seen this movie first row head nice i love there's so much boldness going on in san francisco uh well we're gonna ruin it for you and yeah is there anything else we gotta cover i think that's all the orders of business that we need to attend to.

Well, business is over. Yes. And now let the fun begin. We have a guest. We have a guest. A returning guest. A returning guest. A man.

A man. Let's get this out of the way. The person about to come on stage is a man. He is a man. And for that, we're like, we know. We're aware. But he's one of the few men that we continue to allow to come back. Yeah.

Because he's a good. He's one of the goods. It's a rare, rare. I think it's on a list of three or four. Yeah. But he's a writer. He's a comedian. You know him from past episodes of ours including Star Wars The Force Awakens

and Paddington it's Demi Adjuibe hi hi Demi hi, thank you for apologizing for me in advance of me coming out because I was going to be like, all right, I'm sorry. Women be apologizing all the time. You can say it.

Yeah. Demi, can you tell the audience what your shirt says? Because when you're wearing your sweater, the shirt is so confusing. Okay, I'm going to take, yeah. your shirt says because the way when you're wearing your sweater the shirt is so confusing yeah i my shirt says josie and the pussycats is the best movie ever which is just a truth unfortunately i didn't realize until leaving this morning that when i wear this coat it just looks like it says and the pussy is best movie

and of all the podcasts to be doing today i don't want this that to be the what i come on stage with as one of the three or four good men i can't tarnish my reputation that quickly yeah that reflects poorly on us as well like they thought one of the only good men wore a shirt that said and the pussy i mean that sounds like a feminist movie. I think that that's like Uncanny Valley feminism. That's like what a starting male feminist would say. Like, and the pussy is the best movie when you think about it. The only movie I watch is the pussy.

Ironically, it doesn't pass the Bechdel test. It doesn't. No. No. test it doesn't no no uh anyway so the social network dummy what is your history relationship with the movie i this is one of my favorite movies ever i think it is truly one of the finest films of the decade i remember this movie is very special to me because i did not like watch movies a lot growing up my parents didn't like show me movies or anything so it wasn't until like I went to college and was like oh let's see what's out there that I like really like dug into

film and I remember seeing this movie specifically was when I like like because I remember everyone was like oh the Facebook movie that's gonna be dumb and I remember I went to see it and I was like this is gonna be a riot and I can't just be like oh shit okay and I was like oh this is what be a riot, and I can't just be like, oh shit, okay, woo woo. And I was like, oh, this is what cinema is? But yeah, I think it's a fantastic movie,

and I'm very excited to talk about it. Jamie, what's your history, relationship? I also really love this movie, in spite of it all. I think this movie came out like the second I got to college, I'm pretty sure. And I remember that they were passing out a lot of merch. Because I went to college in Boston as well. So they were like, all right, we got to be giving out social network mouse pads to all the kids.

That's what they want. So I still somewhere have my social network mouse pad that says, punk genius, traitor, trader billionaire the social network and it's just a like grainy high contrast picture of jesse eisenberg that i really but my secret anecdote about the social network that i didn't tell you before the show is that when i was a freshman in college there were two big movies coming out that had to do with Boston, and they let students choose which preview screening they wanted to go to, and it was The Social Network and The Town. The Town!

And I went to see The Town. What? I saw The Town for free at Fenway Park. It was very cool. John Hamm was there. He wore a hat. Really? Oh, he sure did, yeah.

No, and that is is like if you've seen the town you're like oh boy this is the worst thing I've ever seen um and then I saw the social network later and it's one of my favorite movies yeah uh Caitlin what's your history with this movie I also really like this movie although I feel differently about it than I used to feel. Let me just give you a little bit of context for me. I was a freshman in college at the very moment that Facebook was taking off. So I went to Penn State University for my undergrad boo. Because I can't wait to talk about my master's degree tonight. But I was at Penn State in fall of 2004 when they were like,

we're adding in more colleges. I remember when it used to be thefacebook.com. I remember when it suddenly switched. I signed up for my account in October 2004. I was like in it. So when all the events of the movie are unfolding, I was like, it's like I was there um and then when I lived in Boston I lived a two-minute walk from the Thirsty Scholar which is the bar that the first scene of the movie takes place in um and then I would go there after that movie came out and they had changed all the menu items to like the social network burger and it's like okay and then of course i went to um i don't like to bring this up but i did go to boston university and get a master's degree in screenwriting and there's high thank you so much there's high bu visibility in this movie well not although it's not favorable

but it is not because uh all bu girls are bitches and i didn't have to study because i went to bu and that's what you learn about so he was actually right toxic masculinity wins again i had i've been to the thirsty scholar a couple times and there was definitely a mark zuckerberg referencing martini on the menu. It wasn't called the Zuck-tini, but what if it was? Wait, is it called the Mark-tini? It was called the... A Mark-tini would be way better. That... Now I just want to think of all the drinks

that could be named after... The most boring man to ever live, sure. Oh, why wasn't it the Zucker-burger? The social network for god missed opportunity i love i mean i think you could get david finch fries okay you guys do the podcast i'm gonna pop it every few minutes with one I do feel like more are coming. I do think the greatest trick this movie plays, of the many things that it does,

is it does manage to make Mark Zuckerberg look like an interesting person who has emoted or felt a thing. I was going to say, because when I saw your shirt backstage, I was reminded of my image of Mark Zucker wearing it. I was like, this movie makes him look very smart. Right.

But everything we've seen of him since, I'm like, no, you're not as much of a quote unquote genius as this movie wants you to be. Right, he was not a punk nor a genius. Nor a prophet. Oh, it said prophet too. Prophet of what? Of what? Like causing wars Prophet of what? Of what?

Like, causing wars that he causes? Like, what is he? Okay, a lot of Zuck heads. Jesus Christ. This is a Facebook-sponsored event we're learning. Mark Zuckerberg is here. No. Mark Zuckerberg literally caused a genocide,

but go off, audience. Kind of impressive. Anyway, my shirt, this is an actual AIM message that Mark Zuckerberg sent back in the day, and it says, you can be unethical and still be legal. That's the way I live my life, ha ha. So, he does have a personality. It's chaotic evil.

Should we recap the movie? Let's chaotic evil. Should we recap the movie? Let's do it. Real quick. Oh, please. Did you come up with some more? Zucker beer. You're right. It's not a... The audience is verbally

appraising. 30 minutes from now. Keep thinking about it. The story of the social network. We meet Mark Zuckerberg. That's Jesse Eisenberg, of course. He's a student at Harvard studying computer stuff. Do they say what is his...

I feel like in 2004 you could major in computers. Yeah. Is he a programmer? Is he a software engineer? Typing. Is he, does he write code? What?

Typing. Typing. Who knows? He's just, he's majoring in emails, yeah. So he's doing that and then the movie

opens on a date that he is on with his girlfriend at the time, Erica Albright, played by Rooney Mara. And he is a condescending asshole to her. So she breaks up with him. And that night he takes his frustration to LiveJournal. And he's like, although, I mean,

has anyone here ever taken their frustration to LiveJournal before? Like, those of us that were there for live journal that's where we were taking our frustration so give him some slack right what i'm saying is uh mark zuckerberg innocent also his live journal is called zuck on it which is true that was the name of it all of the blog posts and the name of the blog are tragically factually accurate. Everything where he sounds like a dumb asshole is accurate.

Everything where he sounds like a smug Aaron Sorkin character is a smug Aaron Sorkin line. And when you re-watch the movie, it's pretty easy to figure out which is which. Mark Zuckerberg never said, you have the minimum of my attention. You have the minimum amount. That's a West Wing line.

When he said zuck on it, Mark Zuckerberg said that. Anyway, so he calls Erica Albright a bitch and then he's like, but I need something to take my mind off her. And then he says, with his fingers, let the hacking begin. We're like, wow. I want him to put his clammy hands near me. Ew.

Ugh, gross. Mark is like, I mean, he just looks like he needs to be toweled off. He just looks like a light sheen is on him at all times. Sure. Gross. So he hacks into several Harvard dorm houses, or however that works. I don't even know. And there's like, no, that's accurate.

They explain it. What's that? They explain it step by step in the film. Oh, I'm so sorry. Recited. I mean like Harvard houses. Is that like a Harry Potter house, or is that just like the name of a dorm building?

I think it's just like the dorm building. Okay. Did anyone here go to Harvard? At least one person does. We've been in. Yeah. There she is. That's our girl.

Yeah. She has to go back to Harvard. I mean, feel free to bully her on the way out, whatever. Don't bully her. So the Harvard houses have these like student databases that that have students' pictures on them. So he hacks into all of those and creates facemash.com where people can compare two side-by-side photos of women and decide who is hotter because he is a feminist. Well, that's visibility of women.

Right, right, right. He's like, we need to give these women a platform. Those two photos next to each other of the women that passes the Bechdel test. Yes. Because we know what their names are, which is a breach of data. So the list currently is me and Mark Zuckerberg. Who are the other two? Oh, the Winklevosses.

Oh, right, right. Of course. And then his friend Eduardo Saverin, played by Andrew Garfield, comes in and helps with the algorithm. So then they send facemash.com to a few people and they send it to some people and they send it to some people

to the extent where it gets so popular in the course of... It goes viral. Yeah. In one night and it crashes Harvard's network. Then we cut to a few years later because the movie cuts back and forth between hearings

that Mark Zuckerberg is in because many people are suing him. Yeah, I think that that's supposed to be taking place in like I think 2008, seven or eight is when those hearings are happening. Got it.

We see him back at Harvard. We meet Tyler and Cameron Winklevoss. Woohoo! We discussed this earlier today with some people who are in the audience, but obviously both Winklevoss twins should have been played by Alfred Molina. Yes. Very clear.

He would have killed it. Absolutely. Instead they are played by Armie Hammer. Well Armie Hammer and some other guy who then they deleted his face from the movie and control C

control V'd Armie Hammer's face. That's a true fact. Do not forget whoever that guy was. Josh Pence. Josh, Mike Pence's nephew. No I'm kidding.

Maybe. I don't know. We also meet the Winklevoss's associate, Divya Narendra, played by Max Ming. Miguelha. Miguelha. AKA that guy from The Handmaid's Tale. Yes.

Yeah. Divya Narendra is Indian, and Max is not. Whoopsies. Yeah. Eduardo Saverin. Is Brazilian. Whoopsies. Yeah. Eduardo Saverin is Brazilian and Andrew Garfield is not. A chameleon. Whoops.

I couldn't tell. Okay. Yeah. I think that's really the issue. Maybe if Andrew Garfield were less of a chameleon. He's British. I always forget that who cares so these guys hear about Zucky's little face mash thing

as they call it in the movie and they want him to do the programming for something they came up with Harvard Connection which is an elitist dating website for Harvard students because, quote, women want to get with guys who go to Harvard. Okay, so Megan, I have a question. Is that actually true?

There's a thing about the other way, but not about Harvard men. But the thing about Harvard men. Wait, okay, we're going to repeat that. Okay. Okay, so it was BU girls to bed, Wellesley girls to wed, Harvard girls to talk to.

That's not even clever or doesn't even rhyme. I was going to say. That was, okay. Harvard girls for their heads. The problem there is it just sounds like Harvard girls for head. For head. Not the same thing. Well, maybe it was workshopped in the brilliant,

what is their shitty comedy magazine sorry the lampoon they wrote yeah they wrote board of the rings i'm like oh i'm bowled over by this comedic brilliance geez okay fourth grade so the winkle bosses are like yeah program harvard connection for us please and zuckerberg agrees to help them but their idea has inspired him slash he stole it who knows what really happened hard to say uh to create another website uh and he pitches it as a business proposition to eduardo and you'll never guess what it's called. Tell me. Thefacebook.com.

Wow! Eduardo fronts $1,000 in starter cash, and then they get to work on writing the software? Is that an expression? Coding. Coding? They go on squarespace.com and

that's when the real work begins this which brings us to our advertiser i'm kidding squarespace um we would love your money yeah please sponsor us um so while this is happening eduardo has gotten punched by the phoenix this exclusive final club and to all of you not ivy leaguers out there i also don't know what that means it's like it's like a fancy frat club i think so for people who will cause war crimes one day is that what the movie skulls is about the skulls is it okay great glad we cleared that up um so he's gotten punched by the phoenix and mark zuckerberg is very jealous of this and that

plays a part through the rest of the movie and then zuckerberg is also like dodging all the winklevoss's attempts to like talk to him dod He's dodging the winkies. Yeah. They're coming at him with their paddles. Right? He's just dodging them. I wish they had swung a paddle. There should have just been one scene where they see him across the quad and it's a

ten minute chase scene and he's like ducking under things. That chase scene that they describe, I'm like why didn't they film that? They'll conclude that. I just want one scene of him standing next to the Harvard statue, pretending to be a statue, and he's like, wait a minute, and he turns back and he's like, and then Anne Armie Hammer is chasing him. Get the Benny Hill music in there.

Oh, that'd be so good. A real dark version from Trent Reznor, of course. Of course, of course then he's almost done with the facebook.com and ready to launch and then his friend Dustin Moskovitz aka Timmy from Jurassic Park is like hey there's this girl in one of your classes

do you know if she's single do you know if she's interested in dating anyone and then Mark Zuckerberg's like that's what Facebook is going to be like do you know if it's complicated she's interested in dating anyone, and then Mark Zuckerberg's like, that's what Facebook is gonna be like. Do you know if it's complicated? Did anyone ever list their status as it's complicated on Facebook before? Because that is like the ballsiest thing anyone could do.

I did, and so did a lot. No, here's the thing. Here's the thing. When I did it, it's because I was very single and wanted to seem so much more interesting than... It was like, well, it's complicated. You'll just have to ask me to find out. Everyone's like, we don't give a shit.

I came very close once in high school to setting my status to it's complicated. And you can set it to it's complicated with... Another user. You could do, like, people in my high school would be like, okay, so I'm technically single, but it's complicated with Joey. Like, you could give so much information about the status of your heart. It's true.

I miss it. I mean, it's hard to figure out where people are at now. Yeah, now we just got to tweet it all. Yeah, now you just got to do horny tweets and see what happens. Disaster. Shout out to my boyfriend in the back. Who's here. Then the site goes

live and several Harvard students sign up for it right away and then the Winklevosses find out about it and they're like, he stole our idea. More and more people are signing up. Eduardo wants this site to start generating revenue and then Zuckerberg's like, he stole our idea. More and more people are signing up. Eduardo wants this site to start generating revenue. And then Zuckerberg's like, no, Facebook is cool. All Mark Zuckerberg cares about is cool. But I do think it's funny that Eduardo wants to be like, pop up ads.

That would have been a bad idea. And then they meet a couple women, Christy and Alice, who think mark and eduardo are so cool and they cannot wait to suck their dicks and then harvard to head right right yeah as the saying goes things should go then mark runs into his ex-girlfriend Erica at a bar and he's like, hey. And she's like, fuck you. And then either like to retaliate or to impress her or something, he's like, we have to expand to Yale and Columbia and Stanford.

Every time a woman rejects him in this movie, Mark Zuckerberg's like, Facebook needs to be bigger. Like he just, he just... He just goes off the rails. He bought Instagram because someone called him Mork, right? Yeah. Yeah. Also, I just, I'm like, the peak of that scene is when she says, good luck with your video game, which is like the best line I've ever...

It's, it's, the coldness reverberates. I love it. Yes. I love the Erica character. Yeah. I don't care how realistic it was. It was based on a person who Zuck on it references, but they change the name and then they make up some of the interactions, but I just love her character so much.

She's the only person in the movie who is ever correct it's like oh it's good meanwhile we meet sean parker the founder of napster played by justin timberlake which what are they saying they're like justin timberlake in the movie's like oh fuck the music industry it's broken it's like what are you saying justin justin timberlake is so confusing as an actor because you're like sometimes he's good but like he's like he's not a good actor but he he keeps getting me 80 of the way to thinking he might be a good actor he has an incredible agent he does yeah but then he also was in Yogi Bear. Right. Really? And the Trolls movies. He's good in the Trolls movies. One for him, one for the studios. He's good, but he's, yeah, yeah, he's like, I don't know.

I liked him in Wish Upon a Star. That's a good DCOM. Okay. Yeah. Ooh, was he in Model Behavior? He was in Model Behavior. All right, I stand. Yeah, yeah. He's an okay actor. He's, I stand. Yeah. Yeah.

He's an okay actor. He's better than Joey Fatone. Oh. Well, yeah. That's an endorsement. Then, so Sean Parker discovers Facebook, and he's like, ooh, what's this cool thing? And then he says that line where he's like,

all I need to do is find you, Mark Zuckerberg. You're like, oh. And then Mark and Eduardo and Sean Parker have a meeting together. And at Sean's suggestion, Zuckerberg rents a house in Palo Alto for the summer. And he hires some interns. The whole thing keeps expanding. Eduardo is off in New York city trying to find advertisers but things with eduardo and mark are getting more

and more tense and eduardo freezes the account yeah he's like you could have jeopardized facebook and then eduardo's like i know he's just trying to get your attention. They're such babies. It's so funny. They're just crying about Facebook all day. Peter Teal makes a big investment in Facebook. Peter Teal, who famously believes that drinking blood of young people will make you live longer.

Just one more scene that I want added to this movie. Oh, I would love a little Peter Teal offering Mark Zuckerberg a shot of his nephew's blood that should have been the role that timberlake played yeah so there's now like money and office space associated with facebook and facebook now has almost a million members and eduardo is called to the office so that they can inform him that his shares, which he originally owned 34% of, had been diluted down to 0.03%. Wow, all the tech people in the crowd are like, oh my god.

I've seen this movie upwards of 15 times, and today was the first time where I understood what happened there. Oh. Because I was like, what, diluted? And then I saw the part where it's like, they add more investors. Like, oh, because when you add more,

the percentage goes, oh, okay. I mean, it is kind of funny. Like, Eduardo is made out to be, I think, by far the most sympathetic character in the movie. But ultimately, Eduardo Savera, and I have some fun information about what he has since done, which is flee the country and evaded $700 million in taxes. Cool, cool, cool.

But at the time, he truly did, I mean, he lost six months of his life in $1,000. And we're, like, crying for him in this movie. He also now has 5% of Facebook and is, like, a bajillionaire. So he's fine. He's doing fine. He's fine. He lives in Singapore now, and he likes it.

Oh, good. So glad to hear that. But Eduardo in the movie is like, I'm suing your ass, Zuckerberg. Hence all the flash forwards where we see all of those hearings. And then the movie ends with Mark Zuckerberg requesting Erica Albright as a friend on his own website. Well, just after Rashida Jones absolves him

of any guilt associated with the issue, she's like, you're not actually an asshole, Mark Zuckerberg. Bye. You're like, but what about the whole movie? And then there's all the title cards that it's like, Zuckerberg had to pay millions of dollars to the Winkies. The Winkies never got their paddles back. And I think that's the movie.

That's the movie. That's the movie. Yeah. Yeah. Daphne Caruana Galizia was a Maltese investigative journalist who on October 16th, 2017, was murdered. There are crooks everywhere you look now. The situation is desperate. My name is Manuel Delia. I am one of the hosts of Crooks Everywhere, a podcast that unhurts the

plot to murder a one-woman Wikileaks. Daphne exposed the culture of crime and corruption that were turning her beloved country into a mafia state. And she paid the ultimate price. Listen to Crooks everywhere on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This summer, the nation watched as the Republican nominee for president was the target of two assassination attempts, separated by two months. These events were mirrored nearly 50 years ago when President Gerald Ford faced two attempts on his life in less than three weeks. President Gerald R. Ford came stunningly close to being the victim of an assassin today. And these are the only two times we know of that a woman has tried to assassinate a U.S. president.

One was the protege of infamous cult leader Charles Manson. I always felt like Lynette was kind of his right-hand woman. The other, a middle-aged housewife working undercover for the FBI in a violent revolutionary underground. Identified by police as Sarah Jean Moore. The story of one strange and violent summer. This is Rip Current. Available now with new episodes every Thursday. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

I've been thinking about you. I want you back in my life. It's too late for that. I have a proposal for you. Come up here and document my project. All you need to do is record everything like you always do. One session, 24 hours. BPM 110, 120.

She's terrified. Should we wake her up? Absolutely not. What was that? You didn't figure it out? I think I need to hear you say it. That was live audio of a woman's nightmare. This machine is approved and everything?

You're allowed to be doing this? We passed the review board a year ago. We're not hurting people. There's nothing dangerous about what you're doing. They're just dreams. Dream Sequence is a new horror thriller from Blumhouse Television, iHeartRadio, and Realm. Listen to Dream Sequence on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Where should we start with the discussion of this?

Do you have a context corner do you want to start with? There's so much context for this movie that I think that probably people in the audience also have. So if there's anything that I say

during the context that you have more info on, feel free to raise your hand. We'd love to hear if anyone has any dark secrets. This is the place where we're going to get them. So there's really not that much to say about the production of the movie

other than like other actors considered and blah, blah, blah. But this is directed by David Fincher, written by Aaron Sorkin. And you're like, oh, two annoying male personalities that consistently turn out good work. This could go so many ways. It turns out well in this case. But most of, I mean,

most of the context for this just involves like what actually happened and what didn't. And in the most funny instances, how people portrayed in this movie ended up reacting. So Mark Zuckerberg, you're not going to believe this,

does not like this movie very much. He doesn't like it. Aaron Sorkin interviewed a lot of people for this movie. And a lot of people interviewed with him on the agreement of anonymity. So a lot of the stuff that people can't verify happening in the movie, it's very possible it did happen. But he has to watergate it or whatever. He can't give away his sources he's a real woodward about it um i mean a lot of stuff is true like the winklevoss stuff

is almost universally true they actually did throw the harvard rule book to try to you know take a billion dollar company away from mark zuckerberg because they're stupid and it's funny um the Winklevoss is now today they are you know they're ass crack deep in bitcoin they love bitcoins so much they have a billion dollars in bitcoin my favorite fact about the Winkies is in they call them the Winklevise I'm like the Winkies anyways I'm a fan of Winklevise the Winklevise. I'm like, the Winkies. Anyways. I'm a fan of Winklevise. The Winklevise. In 2014, the twins launched Winkdex, which, oh no, we have some Winkdex investors over there.

They're like, we don't talk about it. It was literally, it was just like some metric that traced the current cost of bitcoin and the financial like the the u.s financial commission department whatever the fuck found out about it and they're like ew what is this then they shut it down uh so they're billionaires but they they shut down wink decks so good they are the peak example of failing upwards repeatedly yes i mean it's like who because they came from a ton of money they fucked up a lot they placed sixth in the olympics why even bother they were so i mean we everyone on stage here has placed much higher in the Olympics. Second in shot put.

Eduardo, I mean, we've already referenced the main thing with Eduardo is that he is Brazilian-born and is portrayed by a white actor, which we'll talk about in a bit. But we shouldn't be crying for Eduardouardo because he has um i'll just read the official source um he renounced his u.s citizenship in september 2011 and therefore avoided an estimated 700 million dollars in capital gains taxes he has um he says that this is just because he really likes Singapore. And he denies he left the U.S. to avoid paying $700 million. He's just like, Singapore is dope, you guys. And so no one has been seeing much of him lately because he lives in Singapore. I also, every tech person, and I know it's maybe normal for people here,

but anytime you read, first of all, anytime you read a rich person's and I know it's like maybe normal for people here, but anytime you read, like, first of all, anytime you read a rich person's controversy section, it's so funny. Because with Eduardo Safran, it's like, like, controversy with Jumio. And you're like, what? That's a company that existed. Controversy with Quickie. You're like, so he was involved with, and then later had fallings out with both Quickie and So he was involved with, and then later had fallings out

with both Quickie and Jumeo. What else? Most of the characters in this movie are real. Mark Zuckerberg doesn't like the portrayal of him in this movie, which, I mean, I guess I get that. But some reasons you shouldn't feel bad for Mark Zuckerberg include,

he's been selling your data to the government for a long time. He was helping spread war propaganda in a number of countries. He caused a genocide in Myanmar by doing so. He McFucked our election, which is why we're all here. You know, like there's no one should, but he went to a Costco last month. So. Oh, it's just like us.

He's really, the stars are just like us. Damn. I really do genuinely believe that Mark Zuckerberg and a woman who was completely erased from this movie, his wife. His wife. Priscilla. I think that they went to a Costco

and called the paparazzi on themselves so the paparazzi would see them looking at TVs at Costco and be like, oh, we forgive them. Like, what were they thinking? If I saw a photo of them at Costco, I'd be like, why is Mark Zuckerberg going to buy Costco? Right. There's no part of me that thinks that man

goes out into public to buy anything. Like, shops at Costco. Yeah. So, Mark Zuckerberg has described the movie as, quote, kind of hurtful, unquote. Aww. The credits were always like, aw. Aww. And this doesn't reflect on our discussion, but as far as I know, it does seem like the movie takes a lot of liberties

in terms of giving Mark Zuckerberg first a personality that's discernible at all. But also it seems like based on interviews and just more research done about him, there's a lot written by people who have interviewed him at length that he is a very boring person who is not even socially adept enough

to say most of the things that are said in the movie. Which is, like imagine not being smart enough to say the worst Aaron Sorkin line ever. I could buy the Phoenix Club. I could turn it into my pink.

Mount Auburn Street. And then, yeah. Mark Zuckerberg would be like, you have all of my attention. He's a boring man. My favorite anecdote that I've come across by someone who did work in the tech industry whose identity I will obscure

is this is what it's like to work around Mark Zuckerberg when he's trying to talk to women. Okay, so when Sheryl Sandberg started working at Facebook as the COO, and she's of course a feminist icon, just kidding, Google her. She's the scariest person alive. But Mark loves her. And so he has taken her around the office to say, hey, this is your new boss. And he introduced her to, I guess, a group of female employees and said something akin to, Hi, this is Sheryl Sandberg. She is your new boss.

She is so smart. She is so cool. Look at her hair. It's so pretty. You should all try to have hair like Sheryl's. Bye! That was the whole... So that's what Mark Zuckerberg is actually like. And I, for one,

am glad they didn't commit that to film. I prefer the toxic misogynist Mark Zuckerberg than look at her pretty hair. It sounds like a bad tagline pitch for Barbie. Like on a guy's first day, he's like, all right, she's smart, she's cool. You gotta have hair like her. That's all I got.

Yeah. Well, hope you buy it. See ya. Oh, and some of the, just like he did give out cards that said, I'm CEO, bitch. That's a true story? Wow.

That is very true. Then, yeah, most of the other context stuff I think will fit into our discussion. Like this movie was, at the time of its release, I think one of the first movies we've covered that was called out for its sexism when it came out, because this movie came out in 2010, so it was around the time that people were starting to realize women were around for the first about 10 years ago. It became visible.

And so there was a lot of criticism of this movie of how it treated women at the time to the point where it warranted a response from Aaron Sorkin.

You know, he really does his best to justify this. So here's what he had to say at the time. Quote, Facebook was born

during a night of incredible misogyny. The idea of comparing women to farm animals and then to each other based on their looks and then publicly ranking them. It was a revenge stunt aimed first at the woman who'd mostly recently broke his heart and then at the entire female population of Harvard. More generally, I was writing about an angry and deeply misogynistic group of people. These aren't the cuddly nerds we made movies about in the 80s. What? You know, the ones that were date-raping women.

Continuing the quote. Sorry, he didn't say that. They're very angry that the cheerleader still wants to go out with the quarterback instead of the men, parentheses, boys, brave, who are running the universe right now the women they surround themselves with aren't women who challenge them parentheses and frankly no woman who could challenge them would be interested in being anywhere near them close parentheses he finishes these women whether it's the girls who are happy to take their clothes off and dance for the boys or ed Eduardo's psycho girlfriend, are real.

I mean really real, unquote. So feminist icon Aaron Sorkin. My 30-minute alarm just went off. It's a great time to say Aaron Pork Ribs. Now back to the quote. What if you're like, I loved it. time to say Erin pork ribs. Now back to the quote. What if you were like, I loved it. Yeah.

I think that really sort of removes his responsibility in how bad this movie depicts women. Right. Especially like just doubling down on the psycho thing where it's like what does it add to the story to make her the way that she is? What does her portrayal add to this what does having that one line where like the women are playing video games and like like we know what that is it's like there's so many moments i'm like what is this for exactly like i i like i i think his first point which

is that men who were in early Silicon Valley were misogynist. Yes. Right. But that doesn't mean that like that absolves him of responsibility to show any of those women outside of their like what he deems is their like narrative relevancy. It doesn't mean that he had to write women only as obstacles in the story, like obstacles or vehicles for exposition that would then just disappear forever. Or poor Rashida Jones, who has to stomp and basically break the fourth wall at the end of the movie and be like, Mark Zuckerberg, not a bad guy.

Her whole role in this movie is just going, so wait, and then just saying what we just saw. She just recaps the scene we just saw makes it seem like he might be fuckable and then at the end it's like innocent police and it's just so yeah aaron sorkin like i mean whatever we could talk about how aaron sorkin and david fincher have depicted women all day long but we simply don't have time they're both you know not feminist icons there and and on top of it I mean David Fincher's an asshole but Aaron Sorkin is annoying he he thinks he's so smart he's such a he had to sit at his computer and write you know what's better than a million dollars and then he was like oh oh like he's about to come he's like a billion it took him a lot of

takes too he was like all right four million no ten million no do that for a while yeah oh god i just like it's his writing is so obnoxious but sometimes in this movie i feel like it works a lot of the time because he's supposed to like sometimes with aaron sorkin's writing i feel like it's unclear of whether the character is supposed to sound like a pretentious asshole or if it's just something aaron sorkin wrote down but in this movie for the most of the part uh for the most part, it fits. Well, that's the thing. I spent the first several years enjoying this movie

and thinking like, oh, Mark Zuckerberg, what a cool, smart, punk genius prophet. Let's get to hacking. Because the writing is such that almost every scene of the movie ends with like this epic like mic drop, like come back, like, oh, he sure showed them. And it makes you think. And like the thesis statement of the movie is Rashida Jones's line being like, you're not an asshole. You're just trying so hard to be.

And I think the movie wants audiences to think like oh he's really actually he's tortured and nice and now re-watching the movie for this episode which i did four times i re-watched it four times because there's it's so i had to watch it so because there's so much dialogue it was giving me whiplash. The music is so loud. Aaron Sorkin was like, there needs to be one word of dialogue for every dollar that Mike Zuckerberg has. Mike Zuckerberg, Caitlin. What did I say?

We couldn't let it slide. He actually wrote the entire script as Mike Zuckerberg and then did a find and replace at the very end. That's how little I think of Mike. I know his name is Mark. Screw Mike. Don't. He's gonna buy Costco. Just to spite you both.

Has anyone here ever worked for Mike? Oh, we have some people who have worked for Mike. What? Oh. I truly, I'm just like, I don't know how San Francisco works I'm like it's everybody just like how we're all movie stars because we live in LA I mean yeah yeah yeah anyway so before I messed up the hilarious punchline of my joke um there's so much the dialogue is very

dense in the movie so I had to watch it so many times to be like what did you catch every sexist phrase that was said i eventually did yes after my fourth watch but so now uh the point that i'm trying to arrive at is that like the whole it's he's an asshole mark zuckerberg is an insufferable okay and by that I mean him as a character, Mark Zuckerberg as a character, is an insufferable asshole, but the movie wants you to think that he's very cool. Well, and we were talking about this earlier today of how that is kind of a very slippery slope

that you tread when you're writing a biopic like this because I feel like, yeah, my read on this movie has changed over time, and that's more a reflection on like me and how the world has changed around me than it is on the movie itself maybe and like yeah when I watched it originally I'm like oh Mark Zuckerberg is well and also the marketing punk genius like right he's a punk genius prophet because that was how it was marketed but then when you watch it I think like all the elements of like he is an asshole are there but there's other movies like we were talking about

vice a little bit kind of chose this line in a way as well where you see it's about it's a movie that makes fucking dick cheney look cool and you're like what was what is that important to do was there a pressing need for that where all the facts and indications that he is not a cool person to be admired are there, but the way that the movie is presented to you is saying something a little bit different. And so, yeah, this is kind of like one of those weird, uncanny things. Daphne Caruana Galizia was a Maltese investigative journalist who on October 16, 2017, was murdered. There are crooks everywhere you look now.

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should we talk about women i guess what if i was like no i forgot i forgot should we start with the erica albright uh, let's start with the best character in the movie. Yeah. Erica Albright, who's played by Rooney Mara, is, I think that the opening scene to this movie is truly, like, one of my favorite scenes ever, ever. It's really good. It's fantastic.

I mean, there's that line at the end of, like, I want you to know that you'll think that women don't want to be with you because you're a nerd, and it's not, it's because you're an asshole. Right. And wouldn't that line have been so much more effective if the last line in the movie wasn't, you're not an asshole? Uh-huh. But oh, well, you know, we'll try it again.

But I like her were a lot of people who were criticizing the movie for its treatment of women, rightfully so, referring to this character as a feminist killjoy, which we love. But I think watching the movie, I like her portrayal. I think she's very hard on him

from the very beginning. You know exactly why. He's negging her he's talking down to her he's treating her like shit and she breaks up with him right away because why wouldn't you right and when he comes back talking to her about his dot com she's like good luck with your video game like she's great i love her that's have to say. I like to think that she never responds to his friend request at the end. No way.

That's like the best possible postscript, that she just deletes it and is like, I don't care at all. Yeah. Right. If she was just like, actually, I'm with Tom from MySpace. She showed him. Yeah.

I do feel like that last scene, the whole thing about Rashida Jones' line that undercuts it is like, when you say you're not an asshole, you're just trying to be, it's like, what's the difference? If you're trying to be a person, that's kind of who you are.

Doesn't that make you an asshole? Right. And it sort of sets up Mark Zuckerberg to be this just sad, pathetic nerd who really just wants to be loved. And it's like, yeah, but the path to him being loved for some reason is like, I have to blaze a trail of bodies in my path

of people who didn't bow at my feet, and that means talking shit about women and fucking over my friends and whatnot. It's like, no, you're an asshole. Erica's 100% right. It's weird that they let that be the end of the movie. Tom from MySpace is a lucky man, I think. Yeah, it's totally, and I mean,

unfortunately there's not even that much we can say about Rashida Jones' character, who's named Marilyn, I guess. I think that Aaron Sorkin is kind of trying to do, Aaron Sorkin at least feels tangentially aware that he is not good at writing female characters, to the point where he feels like he needs to justify it by being like, um, actually I'm really good at it female character to the point where he feels like he needs to justify it by being like um

actually I'm really good at it like he did in that quote so my read of what he's doing with Marilyn's character is Marilyn is a lawyer she's in the room at all of these is it a deposition it's a hearing

I don't know fireside chat is what they call it. She's at the Zuck chats. The Winkies are there. And Wardo's there. And everyone's having a good time. But she's there. And we are told several times she's very good at her job.

She knows what she's doing. And I feel like Aaron Sorkin kind of does that to offset like oh maybe if i say she's good at her job even though i never have to show it it'll be fine and no one will notice that she's just recapping scenes and then absolving the protagonist of any guilt right um but uh you know we see you yeah we see you she's not given much to say but what she does usually say is something where she's just so impressed by our friend Mike Zuckerberg. She's like, oh my God. Your site got 2,200?

And then she's written it in such a way she can't even get one fact right. And he's like, no, 22,000. And she's like, wow. And then at the end, he asks her out. And then she doesn't even say, she's like, I can't. But it's like, she wants to?

They were just laying out crimes on crimes on crimes on crimes that this man had done all day long. He's being a dick. He's being horrible. He's extorted millions and billions of dollars and he's like, do you want to get food? She's like, maybe. Like, what?

He's a bad boy. He's a bad boy he's a bad boy i know i feel so bad for rashida jones can we go back to erica for a second yeah so okay she is a great character but like the story only affords her like i don't know seven or eight minutes of screen time like right we hardly get to see her and she's i think along with christy the female character we see the most and it's like seven it's hardly anything yeah and the movie frames the whole reason like mark creates and expands facebook is to like teach her a lesson for not being with him almost which kind of brings us into so the fact that priscilla uh mark's future wife uh is if the story were historically accurate priscilla

would be present in the story at some point because she's known mark since about 2003 they become involved in 2005 so at the point point that the hearings are being shown, they would have been in a relationship for years. He wouldn't be Facebook friend requesting Erica Albright that we know of. I don't like, I genuinely, the one thing I'll say about Mark Zuckerberg is I don't think that he's a cheater.

I don't think anyone wants him. So I think he's loyal. I think he's loyal to his wife. So that was slander. Priscilla has also called the movie hurtful. Uh-huh, sure. Because she's not in it. She's written out of it entirely.

And I think that I get the narrative reason for doing that but that's only because like what you were saying that aaron sorkin kind of uses erica albright as this like narrative engine to fuel mark's need for revenge right because when he sees her at that bar and she refused rightfully refuses to like go somewhere and talk to him because she's like you fucking called me a bitch on the internet you like body shamed me farm animals compared women to farm and he's like i didn't end up actually doing that it's like shut up you want not apologize um and she's like no screw you like i'm here with my friends and then he like runs away and he's like we have to expand Facebook we have to add to every school in the world

and like yeah she's like poised as just like this tool within the narrative to just like motivate him further right like yeah we we never find out really anything about her other than she goes to BU and she's the best character yeah those are the things we know some other women in the movie Dakota Johnson's in this movie um that was a pleasant surprise I don't think I knew who Dakota Johnson was the last time I saw this movie me either yeah brave of us to not know who she is we hadn't seen Fifty Shades of Grey yet we hadn't um but there are some other women in this movie who challenge Mark Zuckerberg for his sexist behavior, because make no mistake, that is mostly what he is doing in this movie is being sexist. But these these women appear so infrequently and are given so little narrative significance that they like you forget that they're even there most of the time. Right. But there's like Rooney Mara's the main person who does this.

And then when you see the montage of men raiding women on FaceMash, there's a shot of a girl who comes in. She's like, that's my roommate. And I think she's supposed to be disgusted, but unclear. But then there's another shot. She's just stating a fact.

She's proud. She's proud she's proud i recognize her wow that's my roommate um but then we cut to another shot of a few women looking at facemash.com with like disgusted looks on their face and then one of them says oh this is pathetic and then there's that female student in his class who like passes him a note that says you dick um and then there's that female student in his class who like passes him a note that says, you dick. And then Jesse Eisenberg gives this really dramatic pout. Yeah. He's like, me dick? Oh no.

And then he starts to leave the class and then he answers a question right and we're like, oh, he's great. Exactly, because every scene ends with him being like, oh, he's great. Right, exactly. Because every scene ends with him being like, I'm the smartest person ever. Right. And then there's mention of women's groups

going after him and being like, face mash was mean. But they're always just framed as being pesky obstacles and we don't even see it unfold on screen. Right. Well, that's the main i think issue with how women are written they're only written as obstacles obstacles or set dressing yeah so it's like the movie tells you oh what he's doing to women with face mash is really bad but the cinematography tells you here's a lot of sexy women and let's film them at parties and they're wet like the the like written stuff

versus what david fincher brings to the table is well because there's that famous like juxtapose montage right i went to film school and and it's like the nerd boys coding, doing their coding on the computer to do face mash. Not a nose breather in the room. And that's juxtaposed against the cool Harvard boys in their final club inviting a bus full of women into their party and then we see shots of them

taking their clothes off making out with each other like just acting as like sexualized set dressing basically and i'm like i i keep trying to figure out what the intention of this montage is oh i have an idea well the best i could come up with is just that like look men whether they're like popular and cool or like nerds neither group likes women but which is true which is true to be fair but then there's like kind of no comment on that by the move there's like there's it's just like and now you get to see women kissing each other for men's pleasure and then and then there commentary. Yeah, there's no, there's, well. Should we talk about

Christy? Yes. So, Brenda Song is in this movie and I love Brenda Song. We're like, yes, Wendy Wu! There she is! Has anyone here heard of Wendy Wu, Homecoming Warrior? Oh, hell yeah! Yeah! Homecoming Warrior Hive, everyone's coming out.

Wait, is this a DCOM thing? Yes. Of course it's DCOM. I don't know anything about it. London Tipton's in the movie? I'm watching it. Right. So Brenda Song is amazing, and she is, I think, very much done dirty in this movie. Oh, yeah. So she plays a character named, it's Chrissy?

Christy. Christy? Yes. Christy, who has a friend named Alice who, we don't know. She gives Mark Zuckerberg a blowjob in the bathroom. That's all we know about her. She gives Mark Zuckerberg that sweet Harvard head that we've heard about. Which, what?

These four people go into two bathroom stalls right next to each other and we're supposed to be like, damn, they got it all. I would be like, you can both hear your best friend in the world getting their dick sucked right now. How is this great for you? You guys are in a... All right.

It's framed as if, and they act as if it's the best thing that's ever happened. We got groupies. Yeah. Which is strictly how they're framed throughout the movie. Alice disappears pretty quickly from the narrative. But Christy remains. We first meet Christy when Mark Zuckerberg is saying something racist about her that she's out of earshot for towards Eduardo.

They all later hook up. Christy is in a relationship with Eduardo. And then, I mean, she doesn't have a lot of narrative impact. She's around. She, I think the most impact she has in the longest scene she's in, which is when Sean meets up with Eduardo and says, drop the, the, it's cleaner.

Like that's that scene. She just spends the entire scene being like, Eduardo, calm down. Right. Give me another appletini. That is her contribution. She gets appletinis and because sean that's the only also the only i'm like i wonder if aaron sorkin was even trying to be sexist or if that was just happened to be how sexist he is but the only time someone

directly addresses her in that scene is when the waiter comes by and is like what would you like and sean turns to we were like oh yeah brenda song is in this scene and justin timberlake's like you choose and she's like appletinis and that's all she says the script probably is like sean turns to her giving her agency and he's just like yeah i did it yeah he's just like yeah yeah, I did it. Yeah. He's just like, yeah, he's like, another day's work. Yeah, and then he puts his male feminist T-shirt back on and goes to bed. Tomorrow begins production on Molly's Game.

My female protagonist movie. He's a weird man. But yeah, so Christy is sidelined for most of the part she's in and then very suddenly Eduardo goes to Palo Alto and then comes back and all of a sudden Christy

has just she's gone off the rails and she is all of a sudden we have no information to believe that she is a jealous girlfriend prior to this. She's very chill. She's ordering appletinis. She's around. All of a sudden,

she shows up at Andrew Garfield's dorm and is like, I sent you 47 texts. And she just is made to seem so irrational so quickly. There is nothing that I saw to indicate that she was like that. Capable of that, yeah. At all.

She lights his shit on fire and then two seconds later is like are you leaving like they just make her seem so irrational out of nowhere and it's it's just because she's being written as an obstacle to him very suddenly that's her importance in that scene she's in the way of eduardo being with facebook Can I give an honest to God, like what I truly believe happened here? Yeah. I think that they shot the movie, or like wrote it all, had it done, got to the end,

and someone was like, what happened to Christie? And they were like, ah. So then they went back. They went back and were like, we gotta write her out somehow. And they were like, make her crazy. And he's like, duh, I don't want anything to do with it. Because it's like all in one scene that this turn happens the scene could be excised from the movie

and it would just be like oh right i guess brenda song died right right but they do i feel like they do worse than just make her disappear they like make her every like negative girlfriend trope that exists then she lights shit on fire, and we see her, so we have to understand when he dumps her, and then she's gone for the movie, and they're like, ah, perfect, I like that,

that makes sense. I also love her line, have you ever seen me wear a scarf? That was their version of like, she's gotta hate the scarf for some reason. She's never had a scarf, there we go. She doesn't know

what a scarf is. What's this? She was vicious. What the fuck is this? It's a sock that doesn't go on my foot. He's like, no, babe, it's a scarf. She's like, are you fucking me with me

right now? I don't know what this is. I'm lighting it on fire. It was so ridiculous. And just a character that has been insulted in the first line of dialogue, ignored for an hour, and then immediately gotten rid of by being like, oh, she's like, yeah, the crazy trope. It's so inconsistent the, she's like, yeah, the crazy trope. Yeah, it's so inconsistent

the way she's characterized. And then there's that scene where Mark has decided to expand. We're going to expand. He's delegating to Timmy from Jurassic Park. He's like, you're marketing or something. You're this and this. Did you know, Timmy, not the actor,

but the Dustin, whatever, he has $12 billion. Isn't that upsetting? Yes. He should be illegal. Bernie 2020, we're making Dustin illegal. Thank you. Yeah.

I want everybody involved in Facebook to go to jail. That's pretty good. Except for the Winklevosses. They can stay. They're in my cabinet. But we are switching the American economy to wink coin. Andrew Yang's like, everyonevosses know each other. It just seems like they know each other.

For sure they text. I don't know. Anyway, so there's that scene where Mark is delegating tasks to his roommates who are now all billionaires. And then Christy and Alice are like, can we do anything to help? And is just like no moving on dustin you're ahead of marketing like yeah and then uh sean parker's treatment of female characters is is kind of the same there's very strong suggestions by the movie that i'm like i wonder if aaron sorkin had research that indicated this because it comes up a lot of times but i couldn't't find anything on it, that Sean Parker is around underage women a lot

and plying them with alcohol the entire time. Anytime Sean Parker's around a woman, someone walks in the room and is like, how old is that woman? It is such a strong allegation. There's got to be something to this, or else Aaron Sorkin would have been sued. There was, I looked so hard to see,

is there, so I just have to imagine it was one of his interviews, or he's mean. And like, that was just, but I mean, that drug raid on the Palo Alto house, that was true, but there was nothing indicated about the age of people there, so Sorkin does something we don't. I don't know, join his Patreon, I don't know.

Sorkin got screwed out by Napster somehow, and he's like, I'll show you. Yeah. He was in independent music. I also love that in his very first scene, they sort of set him up as like, well, he's a good guy, because he knows everything about this college girl.

Yes. I was confused about how that scene was supposed to come up. The scene we're referencing is the Dakota Johnson scene, where as we first meet Sean Parker, he's dressed in crisp white linen waking up after a one-night stand as if that's ever happened. Like, imagine someone looking nice.

I'm like, I would prefer they were out of my house. But he wakes up, he's at a college student's house. He is not a college student. That's what we know. And then there's immediately that thing that goes through where he checks to you know Dakota Johnson says oh you're not 15 or something and he's like no are you because it's just that is how the movie treats him right I wish the next one was like oh fool me once right right right but then as she is like I bet you don't remember anything about me. And then he remembers too much everything about her.

And he's like, I remember you. Your name is blah, blah, blah. You go to blah, blah, blah. Your social security number is zero. He knows so much. And I think this is supposed to come off as, oh, he's a nice guy. But to me, I'm like, if someone knew and even if I told them that much, and then I slept with them and they woke up at my house and they're like, your name is Jamie Bethany Loftus.

I would be like, oh, my God, leave my apartment. It feels like you're in like Minority Report. You just wake up like, here's your identity. But it also feels like he woke up in the middle of the night and memorized these facts because he's like, this happens all the time. I'm not going to. And that's when you put on that clean shirt i think yeah yeah this scene this scene is there to remind you that justin timberlake is actually not a good actor because that's the scene where he does the crisp white linen and then he's like yeah this is your name this is where you come from

and and she's like okay i'm gonna take a shower and then he opens her laptop which is open to the facebook.com and he goes oh we're like oh my god he's got like a boner yeah he's like oh and then he's like well what is this she's like it's facebook everyone loves it and then he's like I gotta find you this is my favorite it's like an evil it's an evil villain line he like, I have to find you, Mark Zuckerberg. You're like, oh right, he's a terrible actor. He's the worst actor of all time. I like when he flinches though. That part is fun.

When Andrew Garfield's about to punch him. I don't remember the context of how we all looked at the internet in 2008 or whatever, but if you opened someone's computer and saw a website you didn't recognize if you open someone's computer and saw a website you didn't recognize you wouldn't be like wait a minute what is uh what's all this like he's he's immediately just like something's here like i want 500 versions of this scene where he opens

it it's like askjeeps.com hey wait wait wait wait oh I want a find and replace version of this movie where it's just like, the entire thing is just like GeoCities. Every line is dubs. If you were an inventor of GeoCities, you would have invented GeoCities. I want the line from here where he's like, and now all I have to do is find you,

Jeeves. There's something something similar happens to what you're talking about dummy earlier in the movie where apparently everyone on earth reads mark zuckerberg's live journal because there's a student at bu who like comes into erica albright's dorm room with a bra and he uses a transphobic slur and he would have only known anything about that if he had read Mark Zuckerberg's blog like everyone's logged into Zuck

on it their home yeah this is back when there were only like five web pages and Zuck on it was two of them so what can you do? That was another one of my favorite badly written like oh yeah Aaron Sorkin didn't grow up with the internet lines where like Erica's

roommate walks into the room and is like Erica he's blogging about you. And you're like no one has ever said that. Thank you nameless female character. So to conclude what I think we were originally talking about uh christy is not treated well in the movie no i mean the way asian women especially are talked about and then depicted in the movie is really not good very disrespectful yeah and and

and it's kind of like, this is another thing that it's like, Aaron Sorkin had the source material to not do this. Like, Mark Zuckerberg, for all of his war crimes, did have female friends in college. And female friends that he hung out with and knew the names of and didn't yell at. His mommy.

His mommy. His mommy. And where was Mrs. Z? The Mrs. Z visibility was at an all-time low in this. But what were we talking? Oh, no. About the whole Asian women thing, it feels like a curious choice given that Zuckerberg's wife is an Asian woman. Yes, and that he was dating her

while this movie was supposed to have been happening. And there's that line when they go to the A.E. Pie party and they talk about how Jewish men and Asian women are meant to be together. And I was just like, this feels pointed and unnecessary. It's like, what are the filmmakers trying to accomplish with that? It was very, very weird. Yeah, and then there's like, what are the filmmakers trying to accomplish with that? It was very, very weird.

Yeah. And then there's also, I mean, what we were talking about a little bit earlier and we've referenced is there's a few characters in this movie

who were people of color who were played by white actors. Right. Which you're just like, okay, David Fincher, we get it. Whoopsies. David Fincher went,

well, if Idris Elba's busy, then i guess we'll just right you're like jesus christ uh this movie was produced by kevin spacey oh oh real fun to see his name in opening credits and there was uh my uh my boyfriend, Isaac Brave, was pointing out, nay, I would say explaining to us the fact that, no. He's great. He'll be selling merch after the show. But he was telling us when we were rewatching the movie last night that there are multiple producers of this movie who have been on the Lolita Express. We're talking obviously Kevin Spacey's

been on the Lolita Express. I believe David Fincher was on that list of names. Scott Rudin is also on that list of names. So we have three major players involved in the social network that have been on Jeffrey Epstein's plane. Just a reminder that we live in hell. Thank you.

Do you think that they were on that plane only because they were looking for Sean Parker? We're doing research. You're just like, Aaron Sorkin, not invited on the plane. So, feminist. Horrible. Does anyone have any other final thoughts?

No. I feel like we've barely scratched the surface, and yet we're running out of time. And yet we've been here for an hour and a half. I have a quote from Mark Zuckerberg that I wanted to share about what he, he was basically asked, well, if what Aaron Sorkin wrote wasn't what happened during the making of Facebook, what was happening? And I'll do my best Mark Zuckerberg here.

Okay. But I think it's such a big disconnect from the way people who make movies think about what we do in Silicon Valley. We're building stuff. They just can't wrap their head around the idea that someone might build something just because they like building things. So that's what Mark Zuckerberg said is actually happening. They were building things. That's all that was happening. the bloodshed um i think we have a few moments for some audience questions and comments and contributions does anyone and if you have something we have another mic so if you want to come up and yeah do we have any oh yeah so come on down come on down oh yeah well what's your name oh okay i'm lee hey uh so i actually came out i

didn't watch the movie i just love you guys and i i'm not clear if we covered or not is or is not the movie about a network that was bitten by a radioactive social. Oh, interesting. Valid question. Yes or no? Thank you so much. So this is for people who follow me on Twitter and who are familiar with the very stupid joke I refuse to stop doing.

I love it. The movie is not about a network bitten by a radioactive social, and that's why it's bad. Thank you so much. None of the reasons we described. I might argue that it is if the network is just the internet as a whole

and the radioactive social is the final clubs. Okay, that's an interesting proposition, but you're wrong. Fair, that's fair. This leaves it in a gray area for me still. I'd like a concrete answer. Oh, I don't have anything thank you uh does anyone else hi what's your name hi my name's jamie hi hi jamie i also went to college in boston yes i know we

of course we know so we know that that Mark Zuckerberg isn't exactly human. So I have to ask on the range, wet scabs or dry scabs? Oh, does Mark... Okay, the question being, for those of you who aren't familiar with the age-old question, does Beetlejuice cum wet scabs or dry scabs? Jamie seeks to extend this question further. Does Mark Zuckerberg cum wet scabs or dry scabs. Jamie seeks to extend this question further. Does Mark Zuckerberg come? Mark Zuckerberg's a Halloween character, I think. I think he's Halloween canon.

And he comes lines of code. Do you think he comes lines of code? He comes content. I'm going to go, I'm still going to go dry for this one. And just a reminder, the sound of coming dry scabs kind of sounds like a deck of cards being shuffled.

Whereas coming wet scabs sounds like a laser jet printer printing full color pages. Every time Mark Zuckerberg comes, it's the beginning of The Matrix. That's my theory. I've never seen that movie.

It starts with a bunch of lines of code coming down the window. Oh, that's just Mark Zuckerberg's come at the beginning of that movie? Yep. Interesting. That's what he was referring to with that line, like, if you knew what you were looking for,

you would have seen it out my window. Just his lines of, I've seen it on my window. Just as lies. I'm all for Team Code Cum. Code Cum. Any other? Yeah. Come on down. That was the best question ever.

I think Code Cum is one of the companies that's in the controversy section for this week. Hello. Hi. Hi. I'm Adriana. Hi. So I just kind of want to get your take. How do you think that Sorkin would have handled all the

Myanmar and like U.S. Senate stuff? How would he have handled it? Well, there's a sequel coming out. I know. The social toot were an extremely social network movie. No, I don't know. The social toot work. An extremely social network movie. Yes, that's it.

That's it. There it is. How would I, I don't know. I mean, I don't trust Aaron Sorkin to handle anything responsibly or well, really. I think he would have probably taken about what happened and then made it sound 500 times more annoying than what actually happened.

I think he's like, what if the people in Myanmar were really quippy? And you're like, that's not the point of this story, sir. Yeah, I think he would have just been really obnoxious about it. He would have done a lot of research and then somehow still done a major disservice to everybody involved. Yeah.

I think it would have just been like that scene in the newsroom where Gabby Giffords gets shots and then everyone's running around and like Coldplay's Fix You plays. If you haven't seen that scene, please, please go and watch that. It is the quintessential, wow, we really let Aaron Sorkin do this multiple times

scene. Right. It sucks because when it works, it works really well and when it's horrible, you clench so hard your whole seal. Like, it's like wild. And when it's horrible, you clench so hard, your holes seal. Like, it's like wild. All right, we have time for one more person? Yeah. Oh, two more people.

Two more. Both of you ask at the same time. Two more. All right, so I did notice that Christy did actually have a prompt for why she went crazy. Oh. And it was that he didn't change his relationship status on his Facebook. Right. And his excuse was that he didn't change his relationship status on his Facebook and his excuse was that

he didn't know how. Though he wrote the original code that created the whole thing. So he was lying in that scene. He was lying. Thank you

for that. Thank you. He is an asshole. Thank you for that. Yes. Thank you. Yes. He is an asshole. Thank you. And then you, you come on up.

God damn it. Hi. Hi. I'm Ashley. I really loved what you guys said about Justin Timberlake, but as someone who has watched his man in the woods trailer several dozen times and made fun of it and has it probably memorized. I was hoping,

because I know you guys are almost out of time, but if you had any more material on Justin Timberlake, I would just really like to hear it. Okay, I genuinely, I think, well, first of all, Justin Timberlake is, I think, a good-ish musician. I think that Future Sex Love Sounds is one of my still one of my favorite albums ever I will sometimes turn it on during a date which I wouldn't recommend I've also turned on the jinx during a date so

Justin Timberlake I mean I think the most talented like, he's maybe one of the few boy band people who is marketed as the most talented and was the most talented. Because they were always trying to be like, Nick Carter's such a good singer. And you're like, but I can hear him. Like, you know. Stop gaslighting me. He's not good. Clearly, Brian's the star. Right? So, Brian's the star. Right?

So, Brian was the star. Yes. Thank you. Round of applause for Brian from Backstreet Boys. Everyone was just being mean to Brian because he had a heart condition. That was literally, it was really embarrassing.

I went to see the Backstreet Boys the night before 9-11. Right. And... No coincidence. night before 9-11 right and no coincidence anyways I went to see that that was my first time seeing the Backstreet Boys and I loved Brian so much and I was eight and I brought a sign that said I heart you and the heart was damaged because he had a heart condition. I said, I... I was like, I've broken, like, fucked up heart you, Brian. Oh, my God.

So you did that on purpose? I did. I thought I was being empathetic to his heart condition. Oh, my God. That's what I have to say about Justin Timberlake. Also, I love you guys, and I'm sorry to compliment a man during the Bechdel cast,

but Demi, Daddy Kiss is one of my favorite songs. Thank you. Some of you have no context for that phrase. And I'll keep it that way. Yeah, don't take up too much space. Yeah, steal it. Steal it off of Napster. No, please.

Also, oh, lastly, apparently Sean Parker did not found Napster. He at best co-founded it, but generally he was just a high-ranking employee who took all the credit. Oh. Yeah. Didn't know that. Yeah.

Well, shit. Well, the show's over. No, I'm kidding. It doesn't pass the Bechdel test also. No, it doesn't. It doesn't pass. Even, like, okay, so women are barely in the same room together in the movie. But I feel like, at the very least, the attorney that represents Eduardo and Rashida Jones could have said, give him two lines.

Want to go to Chipotle? No. Done. They could have also just stopped that montage and had the women that are kissing just be like, I really like kissing you, Christy. Yeah, you too, Margo. And then get right back at it. Yeah. We've been like feminist tax.

Done. But no, it does not pass the Bechdel test. It does not. What would we rate this on a nipple scale? Zero to five nipples based on its representation of women. I'm going to give it like a half nipple, and it's all for Erica Albright, who is not a real person.

And most of the other characters in the movie are. Well she is a real person. She's based on a real person but we should have seen her. The story should have been told from her point of view. She should have been like Delilah from Hey There Delilah and been like it's me. But whatever. Anyways

yeah I'll also go half nipple. I'm giving mine to Christy because Wendy Woo deserved better. I feel like I'll also go half nipple. I'm giving mine to Christy because Wendy Wu deserved better. I feel like I can't go higher, so I'm also going to go half nipple. And I'm going to give mine to Sharon, who, for those of you who have seen the movie, oh, exactly, right? She's the woman who can't catch a beer bottle. Oh, right.

Thanks. Mark Zuckerberg hurls two beers at her, and they both shatter. I wish that scene went on forever. I think it's great. Especially because you know David Fincher does like a hundred takes of everything, so they could have just been like, all right, new take, all right, just put all of them in the editing timeline back after. I also love that her entire introduction is,

this is my Sharon, and then they're just like, you don't have anything more to really do here. The thing about Sharon is she can't catch a beer bottle. Where is the franchise? The script for that said, Sharon can't catch a beer bottle, right fellas? Well, Demi, thank you so much for being here. Give it up for our guest, Demi Adeduebe.

An elite third-time guest. You've joined a club, a final club. Yes, a final club, if you will. So now you don't need to invent something that will ruin us all. But my best friend might. Where can people follow you online?

I'm at ElectroLemon on everything. And watch I, Tonya. I believe it's on Hulu. Yeah! Oh, it's the best movie. And Paddington, while you're at it. Watch Paddington. Thank you so much for coming to the show.

And we'll see you next year, maybe. Thank you. All right, gang. That's our live show on the social network. Ding. We have so many people to thank. First of all, to our wonderful guest, Demi Adiju-Ibe, as well as everyone who came for Crying Out Loud.

That was such a fun show. Sofa, thanks for coming. Thanks for anyone who bought merch. That really helps us out. Thanks to everyone who asked a question or made a comment. Thank you to, oh, I don't remember their name off the top of my head, but the person who made us the laser-cut padding tins. That was a thrill.

I carry it with me like a totem from an inception. Oh my gosh. I love my Paddington's so much. Because whoever you are, please tweet at us or post on Instagram. They did at the time. I wish I could remember. Yeah, we're horrible. We're bad, but

we're canceled. But please let us know who you are and we will give you the due credit. And thank you so much for that nice, nice, nice gift know who you are and we will give you the due credit. It was really incredible. And thank you so much for that nice, nice, nice gift. Thank you to the Gateway Theater. Thank you to Isaac Taylor. And yeah, so thanks to everyone. And to SketchFest, SF SketchFest for having us again.

Everyone was so lovely and we packed out the damn place. It was such a blast. Yeah, so you can find us at all the normal places. You can find us at Bechtelcast.com. You can find us on Twitter, Instagram, at Bechtelcast. We don't really check the Facebook, even though it's not social. Whipsies. Yeah, we didn't even talk about how we are basically absent on Facebook.

It's a website for, I mean, if you're a boomer and you're listening, it's your website. It's your website now. Enjoy it. We're not really on it, but we have a page on it anyways. Yes, but it is helpful to check our social networks because we have live shows coming up. Give us five stars on iTunes while you're at it. We always forget to ask for that. Yes.

And then you can join our Patreon, a.k.a. Matreon, at patreon.com slash Bechtelcast. Five dollars a month gives you two bonus episodes. Incredible. Yeah. Wow. What a bargain. And then also our merch can be found at tpublic.com slash the Bechtel cast. We've got shirts.

We've got mugs. We've got all the items you could possibly want. We've got kisses. We've got hugs with consent, of course. Oh, yeah. And yeah. Thank you for listening. Thanks to everyone who was there.

And, you know, I think it goes without saying. Let the hacking end. Bye. Bye. Daphne Caruana Galizia was a Maltese investigative journalist who on October 16th, 2017, was assassinated. Crooks everywhere unearthed the plot to murder a one-woman WikiLeaks. She exposed the culture of crime and corruption

that were turning her beloved country into a mafia state. Listen to Crooks everywhere on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Kay hasn't heard from her sister in seven years. I have a proposal for you. Come up here and document my project. All you need to do is record everything like you always do. What was that? That was live audio of a woman's nightmare.

Can Kay trust her sister, or is history repeating itself? There's nothing dangerous about what you're doing. They're just dreams. Dream Sequence is a new horror thriller from Blumhouse Television, iHeartRadio, and Realm. They're just dreams. cruising confessions. Join hosts Gabe Gonzalez and Chris Patterson Rosso as they explore queer sex, cruising, relationships, and culture in the new iHeart podcast, Sniffy's Cruising Confessions. Sniffy's Cruising Confessions will broaden minds and help you pursue your true goals. You can listen to Sniffy's Cruising Confessions, sponsored by Gilead, now on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts. New episodes every Thursday.