The Bechdel Cast - The Wizard of Oz with Ever Mainard

Episode Date: June 15, 2017

The brainless, heartless cowards you know and love as Caitlin and Jamie are joined by good witch Ever Mainard to talk The Wizard of Oz! Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain, and also pay no attention to all men to be safe.(This episode contains spoilers)Follow @evermainard on Twitter! While you're there, you should also follow @BechdelCast, @caitlindurante and @hamburgerphone Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Daphne Caruana Galizia was a Maltese investigative journalist who on October 16th 2017 was assassinated. Crooks Everywhere unearthed the plot to murder a one-woman WikiLeaks. She exposed the culture of crime and corruption that were turning her beloved country into a mafia state. Listen to Crooks Everywhere on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. That's right, the only, Katherine Hahn is joining us on Las Culturistas. That's right, the queen of comedy herself. Get ready for a conversation that's as hilarious as it is insightful. Tune in for all the laughs, the stories,

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The patriarchy's effin' vast, start changing it with the Bechdel cast Hello and welcome to the Bechdel cast. My name's Caitlin. My name's Jamie. And we're here to talk about movies. But what about them? The portrayal of women characters in movies. Oh yeah! That's an interesting angle. Very interesting angle. Hey, interesting angle.

I pitched it one time to someone. They're like, here's a million dollars. I've never heard such a great idea. It was me. Thank you again for that million dollars. I had that million dollars. Yes, I've been spending it wisely. You'll be happy to know.

Yeah, we give it all to Aristotle. What are you doing with it, Aristotle? He's buying bottles of Smirnoff Ice to ice us with. That's what he's doing. Do you think we've consumed a million dollars? Do you think anyone's ever consumed a million dollars worth of Smirnoff Ice to ice us with. That's what he's doing. Do you think we've consumed a million dollars? Do you think anyone's ever consumed a million dollars worth of Smirnoff Ice? No, but I think you're well on your way to consuming a million dollars worth of Mike's Hard Lemonade. You know what?

That's kind of mean to say, but also maybe you're not wrong. I didn't mean to say it. No judgment on my part. Well, if we're breaking it down financially, that's 500,000 Mike's Hard Lemonades. They only cost $2. Well, you're young. It's a cost-effective road to ruin. It sure is.

There's time. There's time yet. Yes. So anyway, we're talking about the portrayal of women in movies. Sometimes it's okay. Sometimes it's not. Often it's not. It's inspired by the Bechdel test, which requires that a movie has two female characters.

They have to have names. They have to talk to each other. And their conversation has to be about something other than a man. Is that so much to ask? Apparently, it is. Sometimes. Because a lot of movies don't pass the Bechdel test. Hey, because we're talking about an older movie today. Sometimes. Because a lot of movies don't pass the Bechdel test. Hey, because we're talking about an older movie today. Yeah.

Which I'm excited about. You watched an older movie that I asked you to watch called The Women, and you did not like it. Right. You referenced it several times on the podcast. I was like, I should watch this movie. I love The Women. I don't like it for a number of reasons. First of all.

I'm triggered. I'm sorry they do spend the entire movie talking about men and how they're all very distraught but they're talking about it like this right that's it's so much fun another reason i don't like i i struggle with a lot of movies from that era because the acting style drives me nuts, that's what it sounds like inside my brain. It's like we learn. I love it. But we're talking about a movie that I like much better than that.

But before we jump in, let's introduce our guest. Oh, that sounds wonderful. She's a comedian. She's done a one-woman show at the Fringe Festival called Let Me Be Your Main Man. And she's in a movie coming out called The Feels. Ever Maynard. Hi, Ever. Hello.

Hi, thank you so much for being here. Thank you for having me. Also, The Feels would pass the Bechdel test. Would it? It's about the female orgasm. Oh, my God. Wow, crazy. Perfect target.

Crazy. There should be a version of the Bechdel test where there has to be a conversation about women cumming It's like a sub-test I bet almost no movie would pass I'm trying to think of movies that you see a woman cum on screen and I'm thinking Pleasantville

Do you remember when her mom masturbates in the bathtub and then a tree catches on fire. That prevented me from coming. I started a forest fire. Only you can cause forest fires by orgasming. What an incredible notion to place in people's heads. And for women.

You'll burn down our forrest what's the i'm uh what's what's the movie today oh my god the movie today is the wizard of oz yeah this is a special episode because it's not only your favorite movie ever but also jamie it's your favorite movie yeah yeah cool Yeah. Cool. Wow. You can't beat it. I mean, I love it. I, I've seen it, uh, dozens of times.

You know, I first saw it as a, a kid. It was probably one of the first movies I ever saw. My mom made it a point to be like, Caitlin, you're a person now with consciousness. Like your infantile amnesia is over.

You can watch movies now. Watch this movie. So I probably first saw it when I was like four or five years old. Uh, and I've been watching it on a regular basis ever since. What about you, Ever? When was the first time you saw it? Pretty young as well, yeah. But it used to come on.

We would watch it every Thanksgiving. Yeah. It was a weird thing. Oh, nice. And then it would come on TV around Christmas. So it was this weird thing. And then my aunt had a VHS. Hell yeah. And then my mom had a vhs so hell yeah and then my mom had a

vhs so it's uh brag sounds like you grew up around a lot of vhs yeah holy shit i don't even know what the letters stand for but yeah oh wow video wait oh no vhs yeah video something system yeah that's my guess uh what's we'll never know what that H stands for. Okay, that's going to bother me. I'm not going to Google it. I'm trying to be better at not Googling things when I don't know what they are and to just exist in not knowing things. Oh, I could never do that.

I have to know. I want to get as dumb as possible. When did you first see Wizard of Oz, Jamie? I don't remember the first time but i went through like i saw it a bunch when i was a kid and then for some reason when i was in middle school i saw it again and that time got really really really into it for like a couple years same right we're like and i had like a huge like my mom gave me her old jewelry box at some point for i think because it was broken there was no jewelry drawers or jewelry but i used it to house my wizard of oz collection oh yeah

bracelets necklaces charms t-shirts posters day of the week underwear come on that's so great yeah i and i like had five different vhs editions of like in my I think my family for a couple of years would just go to like Goodwills to search for Wizard of Oz shit to get holidays. Yeah. That's so crazy. It was so like I and by extension, I like was obsessed with Judy Garland in middle school of a tape all of her. They would have a birthday marathon for her on Turner Classic Movies every year, and I would tape them onto my little VHS tapes. And, man, 1939, what a year for Judy Garland.

Both of my favorite Judy Garland movies came out that year. What's the other one? Well, I'm also a big old Mickey Rooney head. And my favorite Andy Hardy movie she did came out that year, too. You mean Ed Hardy. You're right. I had to correct you on your own podcast. It seems like somebody drinking Mike's Hard Lemonade

wouldn't know. It's actually Mr. Ed Hardy. Mickey Rooney, man, unfortunately he's not in this movie, but if you ever get a chance to read or borrow my very large

biography I own of Mickey Rooney he's fascinating he went through I mean he was like notoriously bad with money

he was also he was like 14 inches tall or something also he could not stop fucking like he's so interesting yeah he's horny yeah he's a horny little guy.

But he went through a series of, like, really bad business decisions, like, in his 40s when he was down on his luck. And off the top of my head, Soda for Dogs. That business did not work out for Mickey Rooney. Soda for Dogs is one of my favorites. The other one was round hot dogs. Oh, Mickey already opened a restaurant. Wait, this is familiar. You talked about this on another episode.

Did I? Oh, no. I remember soda. No, no, no. It's fine. But I remember you saying soda for dogs because it reminded me of Dip-A-Pet from Arrested Development. And then when you said round hot dogs, I was like, isn't that just bologna?

No, because it's like a hot dog donut that he was doing. And it was called like, this isn't right, but it was in like rural Connecticut. And he opened like a business called like Mickey Rooney's Weenie Palace or something like that where they were on. Mickey Rooney's Weenie. His little weenie palace or something like that where they were on. Mickey Rooney's weenie. His little weenie palace. And he would put the round donut hot dogs just on hamburger buns.

So you're just getting less food. And amazingly, it didn't work out. Okay, wait, hold on. I know I tweeted about it 400 times. Mickey Rooney had a failed business called Mickey Rooney's Weenie World that sold circular hot dogs. Wow. Thanks, Jamie, two years ago.

Well, this podcast is now about Mickey Rooney's weenie world that sold circular hot dogs. Wow. Thanks, Jamie, two years ago. Well, this podcast is now about Mickey Rooney. Sorry, we're not talking about Wizard of Oz. Rooney head. For yet. We're going to talk about Mickey Rooney and Rooney Mara. Here's another excerpt from the Mickey Rooney biography. Mickey told us, quote, I bet Howard's going to offer to sign me to a million dollar

contract. Then a minute later, maybe he wants to invest in Mickey Rooney macaroni. That's my best idea. I love Mickey Rooney. That was another plan of his, Mickey Rooney macaroni. I mean, that at least sounds good. Like that has a good ring to it. I would buy that based on the name alone. Hey, should I do the recap? Of what? Mickey Rooney or? Yeah. Mickey Rooney's business card. Wizard of Oz is about a character named Dorothy Gale.

She lives in Kansas with her Auntie M and Uncle Henry. There's this character named Miss Gulch. She wants to kill her dog. Yeah. So she's like, no, don't do that. I'm going to run away from home so you can't kill my dog and then there's a tornado and she can't find her family they've already gone down to the tornado cellar and she goes in the house and bam she gets hit in the head she's knocked

unconscious when she wakes up whoa she's in the middle of the cyclone the cyclone transports her to the wonderful world of oz she wakes up she comes out she's in munchkin land she's like what the fuck is happening there's a good witch she comes she's like lady you're in fucking oz now and you can't get back home until you go to the wizard of oz who lives in the emerald city frank morgan she sets out on this journey to go visit the Wizard of Oz because he's going to be able to help her return to Kansas. And on the way, she meets some friends. Scarecrow.

He needs a brain. He's stupid. He doesn't have any brains. I can fix him. Right. And then they meet the Tin Man. He doesn't have a heart. He doesn't know how to have emotions. Jamie can fix him. I can fix him. then they meet the cowardly lion no interest in fixing that one yeah me i don't blame you yeah and then meanwhile you could

but you don't want to yeah if i wanted to but i'm come on i'm busy right now meanwhile the witch is like you guys no i need these oh i forgot about the fucking ruby slippers the door i do a very good recap i just leave out important details that's all so she killed the witch's sister i forgot to mention that we go to the east we go to the east and then the wicked witch of the west is now after dorothy because dorothy has the ruby slippers given her by by Glinda. Okay. Sorry. I know. This is funny. Okay. She's given a lot of important things. Guys, a tree just burned down somewhere.

Because I'm in the middle of an orgasm. You made me so upset that I came. That's both the sound of an orgasm and a tree falling to the ground i know i was about to make a joke where it's like if a tree falls down in the woods and no one's there to hear it doesn't happen but can the same be applied to a woman's orgasm like if no one's around to hear the woman orgasm does it actually happen happen? Sometimes I hope not. My roommate's home and I'm like, ooh. Wish I could take that one back.

Was I loud all alone? You know what I mean. So the witch is after Dorothy because she wants Dorothy's ruby slippers. She wants Dorothy, though. Oh, yeah. She wants to burn down a tree with Dorothy. She throws a lot of fireballs at Dorothy.

So she's like, that's foreplay for her. Okay, let's get back on path. You mean the yellow brick road? Thank you. Okay. Look, I'm getting defensive over this movie. I know. I'm sorry to have butchered.

They finally reach Emerald City and the great and powerful Oz is like, fuck you guys. Go bring me the Wicked Witch's broomstick. So they're like, I thought you were just going to give us the things we wanted. He's like, no.

I want something in return. So then they have to go to the Witch's castle, but there's all these flying monkeys. They capture her. They take Dorothy. She locks her in a tower. And what happens i've forgotten i don't know are you being for real okay i remember yeah i was like we just we all just watched it i know slash it's one of those movies that i i'm convinced if i like close my eyes and really focused, I could watch the whole movie inside of my head. Like one of those. I used to be able to do that with...

Yo! See, everybody knows. Right, so the Tin Man and the Scarecrow and Lion have to save her, and they're being chased by all the bad guys who live in the Witch's Castle. Finally, they confront the witch, and she's like, I'm going to burn down the Straw Man.

And Dorothy takes a bucket of water to put out the fire. It splashes on the witch. Boom, she's melted. She liquidates. So then they bring back the broomstick to the wizard and he's like, oh, I don't know. This is not good enough. Come back tomorrow. And Dorothy's like, fuck you. You promised us. What are you doing? And then it's revealed that this great, magnificent Oz is actually just a man behind the curtain. He's like, I'm sorry. I'm a fraud. I'm a piece of shit. But here, here's the things you already had all along.

Scarecrow, you already had a brain. You were already the smartest one. Tin Man, you were already the most sensitive one. You just need a little clock heart to feel better about yourself. Right. And then he's like, cowardly lion, you're not a coward. You're brave. You have been this whole time.

Can we take a time out right here? This is something that's bothered me. So he pins a medal on the cowardly lion, but he is wearing fur, so clearly he has to pierce through the fur and the skin. It doesn't hurt. Yeah, he doesn't go out. He's like, yeah, I could wear this. Yeah.

Well, he's a brave boy now. He can't show any sort of weakness. He can't feel pain anymore. He's just like, no, he does, but he has to pretend like he's like, I'm fine with this. So now he's just suppressing everything. He's brave. He is strong. If he bleeds, he will not call attention to it.

Right. And then the story ends. But now Dorothy still hasn't gotten home to Kansas. I know. What's up? So the wizard's like, let me take you there in my hot air balloon. Willie has a hot air balloon? Right.

Never get in a stranger's hot air balloon, number one. But he accidentally leaves without her. So then Glinda the Good Witch shows up and she's like, you had the power to leave all along, but you still had to go on this journey to realize you had this power. A lot of burying the lead in this movie. Yeah. So she taps her heels together three times. She returns home to Kansas, a.k.a. she wakes up from a dream. It was all a dream.

Or was it? We don't know. I think it was a parallel metaphysical universe. I like that theory. Yeah. I mean, if we're going canon. If we're going L. Frank Baum canon. Get ready.

I'm going to talk about some political allegories. Okay, great. Good thing we got a party vibe going yeah party vibe sorry about all the music if you guys can hear this music there's a show downstairs in the Nerd Melt showroom do I work there? yeah I do but I don't have any power

for making them turn their music down please don't write this part out let's be completely clear yes party vibe episode I like it it's very mary k and ashley you're invited to the party vibe episode of course yeah uh we're in the party vibe we're talking about some political party shit this isn't relevant like by the time the

movie came out in 39 this was no longer relevant but the l. Frank Baum original kid story was supposed to be this political allegory that was about America in the 1890s. Where we've got Dorothy. She's the everyman. Very naive. Every woman. Scarecrow represents the farmers. Tin Man represents industrial workers. Cowardly Lion is a metaphor for

William Jennings Bryan, which I'm sure was hard-hitting stuff at the time, but I do not know who that is. And then it gets a little bit racist. So the Wicked Witch of the West was supposed to actually represent the American West, because this is around some

gold rush shit people are out in california looking for gold and then the flying monkeys are supposed to represent the indigenous people uh out in the west that uh people were you know uh actively massacring so as to access the gold sure unclear where l L. Frank Baum stood on this, but he did make them evil witch monkeys, so chances are he was not a fan and he wanted the gold. But I don't know. But anyways, just some fun context. Yeah, I appreciate it.

Here's my question. Yes. But at the end, when Dorothy melts the witch, all the guards and everyone is like, Oh, thank God. We've been under that spell. That's true. That's true. That's true.

So maybe... Maybe the, you know, indigenous people were under the spell of the West. Of the West. They're under the gold spell. They got gold fever. I gotta get it.

I gotta get it, gotta have it. Right. Well, I mean, yeah, it's just like... And then, oh, yeah, and then, okay, the everyman is like, hey, there's no gold. And then the person who's like, hey, there's gold, melts. And then everyone's like, wait a second. We've been duped. We've been duped.

It's almost as if saying there's more to life than gold and money. Not sold on it. And consumerism. But, like, maybe? Well, I mean, in Munchkinland, you have all the different guilds. The Lollipop Guild. Oh, that's a Hollywood union thing, for sure. That's not a part of the book yet.

I mean, maybe the guards who work at the Witch's Castle, they have their own union, but they're having trouble overcoming. The guards are actually saying something too and i always forget what it is but they're saying it all we own we owe like any wealth that they own like they actually owe to continue to speculate as i do no it's all oh yeah all we own we owe her oh yeah that's the winky chant because the guards are called the winkies and it's like more canon shit there's the land of the winkies whoa that's pretty deep though right right i wonder whose idea it was to chant that do you think the witch was like you know what we should make clear you owe me around the castle yeah how powerful that it's a woman in charge yeah. This is a very female-centric movie. All the females are in charge

in this movie. Yeah. True. Aunt Em, yes. Myra Gulch, in charge. A bitch,

for sure. Totally. I don't know if I'm allowed to say that on this cast, but for sure, a crude, terrible woman.

Yep. And she owns a lot of land, which I imagine was kind of uncommon for that era. But now that I'm a strong Christian woman,

I can't tell you. Right. What was she gonna tell? What was... She's that I'm a strong Christian woman, I can't tell you. Right, what was she going to tell, what was her cunt? She's going to call her a cunt. A C word. I would have loved to hear that in like the newsies accent

that everyone spoke in at that time. Do you know what I really like though about this movie is when Dorothy is like, and Em, and Em, they're going to take Toto. And she's like, not now, Dorothy, we're counting chickens. And they're just counting these chickens. And they're like, and sheoto. And she's like, not now, Dorothy. We're counting chickens. And they're just counting these chickens. And she just goes, that's 70.

And like, over 70 chicks. It's like, what? Because the chicks might die. That's what they're saying. It's like, this incubator's gone bad. And now we've got to count all the chicks. But how many chickens do they need? We're liable to lose a lot of chicks.

They've got one worse. No, but they also have hogs. They must be wealthy. They got hogs. I don't know chicken farm. No, but they also have hogs. They must be wealthy. They got hogs. I don't know if they were wealthy. Ooh, hogs out moment. Everyone, take your hogs out. Hogs out! How did I not write that down as a thing to say on this episode?

We should be saying hogs out in every episode. And I think we've gotten close. Yeah. Not quite. You heard it first on the Boogie Nights episode, and since then, I think we've mentioned it. That's true. So if you're listening to the podcast right now, whip out that hug and continue to listen to the discourse. Here's a curious thought I had before we get into some really cool and intelligent discussion.

I want to know, where does the red brick road go? Where does the red... Oh. You know, in the... Oh, in the spiral. The spiral. So in one direction, it takes the yellow brick road. But then inside that spiral, there's a red brick road that goes elsewhere.

Why don't we ever find out about that? Probably just goes to a suburb. Yeah, I'm pretty sure it goes to Cleveland. If you follow the red brick road maybe she should have just gone that way and then she wouldn't have had to meet all those dumb guys is uh is wizard of oz in public domain because i want to like readapt this and find out where the red brick road goes the wizard of like the book yeah i don't think so well do they address it like in return to oz or anything like that that's a good question i don't know i don't think so well do they address it like in Return to Oz

or anything like that that's a good question I don't know I don't really remember that much about this movie I mean I had three versions of it but I didn't enjoy it I've never seen it it's one of those like oh it's a dark reimagining

I don't know just let me have my fun two 80s if you ask me it is extremely 80s, yeah. But I enjoy The Wiz. You know what? I've never seen The Wiz either. I really want to watch it. But if you ever get a chance, watch The Muppet Wizard of Oz.

That's a fun one. Yeah. Wait, who's Dorothy in that one? Shit, I know Queen Latifah is Auntie Em. And then, is it Ashanti? I think you might be right i remember there's the uh one with zoe de chanel and that was a myth that was a stinky one that was called tin man that was like a sci-fi original like mini series or something yeah i watched the whole thing didn't care for it uh ashanti is dorothy also jeffrey tambor is the wizard in that movie which

i did not remember either well now you know now i know oh wizard of oz is public domain aristotle just looked it up thank you oh okay so i'm gonna write a new i'm gonna i'm gonna fucking write a script about the red brick road i wasn't i didn't think of this, but can I say something very embarrassing that I did when I was 13? Okay. So I was a precocious young child. I wore a back brace, had a lot of free time, not a lot of friends. So what I decided to do in junior high, when I was getting really, really into The Wizard of Oz, I was like, I'm going to write a sequel to The Wizard of Oz. And I wrote a really long, I guess it was like a book that I wrote when I was like 12. And then I registered it with the Library of Congress.

Wow. So somewhere there is a copy of a Wizard of Oz sequel I wrote, non-canon, perhaps a fun read. I have no way of knowing. There's exactly one copy of it in the entire world. But I was very proud of it. And it was a way for me to not have friends for an entire year and feel fine. How many pages was it? I don't know. I know that I remember Googling on, you know, my parents dial up internet, how long is a novel novel finding out that number of words clearing that number of words and being like all right how do we wrap this up we did it we did it we got there whoa so you were like a full yes shit man she said she had no friends i had no friends for a year that's plenty of time to write to write i'm just impressed that uh someone of that age

can write yeah can i didn't say right stand up right i could i could have she's wearing a back brace yeah i was trapped i was in prison uh i'm sorry i don't mean to laugh at that all i did was take algebra tests and think about the wish of odds oh did you did you enjoy algebra? No, I didn't. I wanted... I don't. I was bad. I was very bad at math.

And I wanted to be good at it, but I wasn't. If you remember from the Mean Girls episode, I was a mathlete. I know, you were... I was a mathlete. You were a woman in STEM. I was a woman in STEM. Bitch. Hey, let's talk about the female characters in this movie.

Sure. We've got, as you already mentioned, basically any woman on screen is probably in charge of something. She's, you know, strong and powerful. We got Auntie Em, who we don't see on screen that much, only really in the beginning and then right at the very end. I love Auntie Em. I love when she screams for Dorothy in the middle of the, like, Dorothy! Like that. They barely look for her.

Like, they're... Yeah. I wonder if that happens right after the movie ends. Like, wait a second, did you try to find me? We had just closed the doors, too. Yeah, the storms sound like it's too it's too damn bad in those doors once they're closed uncle henry he came down hard she was like let's look for our niece and he was like no get in here yeah then she's like all right you're right she's not our biological daughter she's just our sister's daughter right. Right. We don't know what happened. We don't know.

So that's speculating. Check out my sequel for some hot speculation. Right, and then Dorothy gets knocked unconscious by what is clearly a plastic window hitting her in the arm. No.

It was a glass windowpane with wood. Hard to watch. Yeah. It was a glass window pane with wood. Hard to watch. Yeah. It's in the back of the head. Hard to watch. Hard to watch. I do remember being very startled by it as a kid.

I'd have to close my eyes when I knew that part was about to happen because it would always startle me when the window comes out of the... Yeah. Bam! Oh, God. Hey, speaking of startling as a kid we used to look for the guy who hung himself did you guys do that yeah oh yeah yes but then once they that was pumped it up to high def they took it out yeah it's a bird yeah or that's what they'll tell you oh no wizard of oz truthers out there though Even in the old VHS tapes, they had the hanging man.

Oh, yeah, for sure. Hey, you're going to Culver City later. Culver City Hotel, they had a Wizard of Oz diorama in the front of their hotel. And so I stop because I'm like, hey, this is relevant to my interests. Apparently, the munchkins were staying at the Culver City Hotel and the Culver City Hotel, to their discredit, they tout in the diorama that they had the Munchkins sleep four to a bed during the production of the movie. It says it in the diorama.

I don't know a lot about this, but like, I mean, were they being exploited? Was there like exploitation happening like technically yes but i don't think you could find like a someone who participated in that movie as a munchkin that felt that way not that i it used to be two of my favorite early youtube searches were like munchkin interviews now and And Titanic survivor interviews now. Just like to watch withered old people talk about the good old days. Yeah. Yeah.

But I think most of the Munchkins seemed proud to be a part of it. I don't know. If they're okay with it. I can't speak for them. It's true. We can't speak for them. We can't speak. We can't lorex for them.

Well, I wasn't sure if there was any sort of like, if anyone of them had come forth and been like, they were exploiting us or they cheated us. But I think a lot of the studios back in the day exploited all of their actors, like $12 a day or like $30. You know, like it wasn't like it was now. They were just like,

we know you're going to work for this amount of money and if you don't, we're going to make somebody else a star. So what are you going to do? Yeah. So if you're thinking, yeah, like if we're, if we're getting into the nitty gritty, you know, Judy Garland is actively being turned into a drug addict during the production of this movie. Exactly.

Uppers, downers, uppers, downers. She's calling Mickey at night saying, are you up? Are you down? And he's like, I don't know. Macaroni. I'm busy thinking of ideas. I'm an ideas man. I'm busy thinking of ideas. I'm an ideas man.

I'm an ideas man now. Come over, try some soda for dogs. He married Ava Gardner. It's crazy. Okay, I'm done. In Chicago, sorry, one last thing before we're talking about Wizard of Oz. There's a Frank L. Baum park and there's a Wizard of Oz park. I used to

ride my bike there and take walks all the time when I was in Chicago. It was really nice. The first time I visited Chicago, that was my first stop. I was like, I gotta go. Warning for that park, for sure. Every tree in that park has since burned down. On fire!

The whole park burst into flames the second I got there. Yeah. I don't even know where to start. I mean, this is such an iconic movie. Like, everyone knows the story. Everyone knows Dorothy. She's such an iconic character. Is she a good character? Let's talk about it.

I mean, I don't think Dorothy is the strongest female character in this movie per se but i think that she is she's sort of the avatar that we're supposed to plug ourselves into and she sort of guides us through oz and she's also a kid so it's kind of hard to it is hard to make the argument that it's like why isn't she she in charge of it? Like, she's a kid. Right, how old is she supposed to be? Like, teenager? 14, 16? In the book, she's supposed to be like, I think, 11 or 12.

Also, Shirley Temple was almost Dorothy in this movie. It was almost a very, I don't think that the movie would have been, I don't know. Rememberable. Yeah, like it would have been another. Rememberable.

Rememberable. Hey, y'all got a story night on my back. But I think, yeah, I think if Shirley Temple had been in it, it would have been another Shirley Temple movie as opposed to what it is. But Dorothy's supposed to be younger than Judy Garland is in this movie because they like strapped her breasts down for this movie. Like she's supposed to seem younger, even though I think she's 15 or 16 and kind of looks it. But she's supposed to be, like, I think 12.

Got it. Okay. But also, like, think, like, she's from a small town in Kansas. Her only friend is Toto. Like, she's ride or die for this dog. Like, a woman's going to kill her dog, and she's like, we got to run away. So she's in the... First of all, now there's color color everywhere she's seeing all these crazy things

that's wild yeah yeah like that's insane it wasn't this the first movie in technicolor i think it was one of the first widely released ones okay yeah yeah yeah and they had the best can you is there a better technicolor gimmick in the world than starting and not technicolor and then the big old reveal. It's so good. It's still so good. It rules. Not unlike Pleasantville. That movie starts in...

That movie came out in 1998. Yeah, they had the technology. I don't think so. I don't think so. I wasn't jazzed about it. I'm just trying to draw a lot of parallels as many as I can

to Pleasantville. Grow up. I think that... Okay. I think Dorothy, for who she is, is a great female lead. You know, like,

she does the best she can. She is kind of weirdly leading this ragtag group. She does make a lot of... I mean, she's the vehicle of the story. She's the driving force.

She's got to grow up quick. And she's, like, the moral center, too. Mm-hmm. Which, I mean, I guess is, like, kind of a traditionally feminine role but like she

helps everyone she can she doesn't operate against her own moral code at any point really it's no sex no sexual tension she does not fuck she does not have she doesn't even have a crush you have a crush although you know at the end where you're like did she have a crush in the scarecrow yeah she's like i'm gonna miss you most of all and you're like all right she have a crush on the Scarecrow? Yeah, she's like, I'm going to miss you most of all. And you're like, alright, I see it. I get it. If you've got to go for one, that's the one you go for. Right. His name is Hunk. That guy's character is literally Hunk. He's a Hunk.

You know, I really like Ray Bolger. He was also if you like Ray Bolger, you've got to check him out in those Follies movies of the late 20s and early 30s. He's great tap dancer check out his check out that guy's tapping all right he did have a lot of time yeah i mean i would say that yeah she is a especially for the era i mean i think the portrayal of women has both gotten like it's gone in different directions where like sometimes women are portrayed really horribly in mainstream cinema but we've also like progressed a bit

since then so considering the era of the late 30s when this movie was i think it's pretty impressive pretty impressive 1939 for sure and then if we get into all the secondary female characters they're pretty much all for better or worse in charge of something because if we get into all the secondary female characters, they're pretty much all, for better or worse, in charge of something. Because if we start with Annie M., she, you know, Uncle Henry, he's a doofus. I think the best indicator of who he is is like after Annie M. flips out at Miss Gulch and leaves. And then Uncle Henry just sits there like sorry about that. He's just laughing. He's like just another day.

He's just a sweet little simpleton which is great and good for him but you know. He's a beta man. A beta male. I love a good beta. You gotta love a beta. Uncle Henry is not ashamed of being a beta male. No, he loves it. Except when it comes to, get in the basement yeah i'm

scared of this tornado yeah typical beta true true yeah and then yeah i mean the other male characters in relation to the female characters like they all have some sort of shortcoming where they're they need to go to the wizard to like fix this problem of theirs and they're all they're all kind of cucks they're kind of cucks and these are all things that dorothy already has she already has brains she already has a heart she has courage she just didn't know it true well i think i don't know i think she didn't she was like i've got this stuff i just need to get home i'm a complete person as is i'll take all you half men with me so that we can. I think they were full men.

They just had been through a lot. Yeah, they had their. And I do appreciate that every single. Half men. You don't have men. My men. I got three men. I got three whole men here.

No, there's three half men, a.k.a. one and a half. There's one and a half men. Hated that television show. No, well, when I was watching it earlier today, because I hadn't seen it in three or four months, baby. But the Scarecrow, Tin Man, and the Cowardly Lion all, at some point, do specifically ask her, can I come with? Which is, like, such a sweet beta thing to do like hey i know you're on your way somewhere but like i promise it won't be too much trouble and she's like get over here you dumb idiot like that or like they're like i have this problem and she's

like i'm scared okay it's you can come with us she's based that's why i love dorothy she's like i can fix you yeah and i'm like this is how i go Dorothy. She's like, I can fix you. Yeah. And I'm like, this is how I go through life. Get on. I can fix you. And then eventually, you know, if I can't, I'm going to get in this hot air balloon. Got to go. You know? There's also several different scenes where they're confronted with an obstacle of some sort.

And like all the other characters are like, oh, God, how do we handle this? What do we do? And she's just like, no. Let's be level-headed about it. Yeah. For example, whenever the cowardly lion is intimidating the Tin Man and the Scarecrow before we know he is in fact cowardly

and he's chasing around Toto, she's like, bam, slaps him in the face. My favorite slap ever. A downward slap. Not a slap across the face. That's a kidding slap. A horizontal. It's a vertical slap.

She volleyballs him. Pow. You know, hot take. I don't like the Cowardly Lion. I find him very obnoxious. I hate all his songs. I fast forward through King of the Forest every time. Same.

I don't like it. I don't like his other song either when he's first introduced. Because he goes from bawling like a baby. 45 seconds long. Yeah, but even so, it's too much. I say cut it, put back in the deleted number, the jitterbug. Oh, I have the soundtrack. So good.

It's so good. When is that supposed to happen? When they're in the forest, when they're about to get to Oz. Oh, yeah. And they're hearing like the monkeys and then it would have dated the movie in a way that it's not dated otherwise but it's a very catchy little tune

where they all do the jitterbug in the forest and the jitterbug is supposed to be like an actual bug catchy little tune though I like the Cowardly Lion I feel guilty for not liking him more. I don't know what it is. I could see him being annoying, though.

Like... Yeah. He's annoying. I also, like, don't like the, like, aesthetic of him. Like, the makeup and the costume. He's a little scary. I don't... I mean, the suit is, like, pretty intense.

Like, it's cool. I like the suit. I don't know. Maybe I don't like Burt Lahr for some reason. Can I also say something about... No, no, no, no. Just one more thing.

She yells at them to get Dorothy out of that hog pen. I wrote this down because I kept cracking up about it. She's like, get Dorothy out of that pen before they worry themselves into anemia. She's such a boss. And then she's like, Hickory, I saw you messing with that

contraption. She threatens to fire them. She's a CEO. She's a boss. She's like, okay, nasty gal. Basically, girl boss. Meryl Streep in Devil Wears Prada. That's Annie Okay, nasty gal. Basically, girl boss. Yeah, girl boss.

Meryl Streep in Devil Wears Prada. That's Annie M. I like Annie M a lot. But I really do want to know if Dorothy ever asked her, like, hey, did you look for me? And, you know, Annie M could be like, well, barely. Well, you did run away. To be in my defense, you didn't seem to want to be with me but there that's another uh that i would put on what's his name professor marvel professor marvel in the in that great scene because i love frank morgan where

you know he's pretending to be a psychic and all this stuff and then he's like ah your aunt is dying like go away and then he sees the storm coming and is like see you later like doesn't offer her any help he's like poor girl hope she makes it drops his weird british accent is like damn hope she lives like it's just it's why. But he's at the end, too. And offers no, like. Right. Yeah, sent her out into the twister. Pretty amazing that she didn't fucking get snuffed by this storm, you know?

She just has a severe concussion now, is all. Yeah. But also, when you see Hunk at the end, I'm like, I get it. Hunk is a hunk. Hunk is a hunk. Also, I know he can tap so that's just like all right now i know subliminally you're like i'm like yes why aren't you tapping what's his last name bulger it's like yeah you make my pants don't don't don't you did it you did it

and i'm mad one thing that i noticed that i uh didn't quite realize before is that Dorothy effectively dreams in three act structure. She has a dream and the story that unfolds is like a perfect movie. Why can't I dream like that? Here I am wasting my time getting a master's degree in screenwriting. If I could just get hit on the head

and fall asleep and have a dream about like have a movie in a dream and then I can wake up and be like i'll just write this down but like tell us more about your master's degree yeah yeah i read three books okay so she dreams in three act structure she also has a dream where basically she is like the queen of the world she like kills a witch and then the munchkins are like we're gonna make a bust about you you're gonna go down in the hall of fame what delusions of grandeur does dorothy have where she's like you're she's confident community is like

yeah she's confident okay i like that better yeah what i said. Yeah. And let's talk about the witches, too. We'd be remiss to not talk about the witches. Glinda, the good witch, she's also in charge of sort of everything. Everyone's always stoked to see her. She's never particularly helpful, sort of just like a wisdom dispenser. I will say, with Glinda, she's a bit of an antagonist. Because when the house dropped on the Wicked Witch of the East, she had the ruby slippers. And the Wiggy Witch was like, which one of you killed my sister?

And she was like, aren't you forgetting something? The slippers. And she has this look in her eye like you can't do anything. And then when she goes to get the slippers, they go. And now they're on Dorothy. And she's like, don't worry, darling. You just keep those shoes on. Yeah, don't worry, darling. You just keep those shoes on. Yeah, don't take them off.

You must be very powerful or she wouldn't want them so badly. She knows. She knows the answer to that question. Yeah. She knows the whole time. And then the other thing is like, you know, we go way to the west. I get it. She's a bad guy. We don't like her. However, she just lost her sister.

But did she really want those slippers? Because she knew what those slippers could do. She knew. She knew that the infinite power. And also, how much power are we putting into accessories? Is that a commentary on something? Never thought about it.

True. Why does it have to be, you know, women be shopping. Hot accessories. Women be loving shoes. I don't know, but I love buying red shoes. It's a little secret with myself. Oh, wow. Sorry.

I mean, what's the alternative? I suppose like a medallion, a necklace of some kind. It's always like a piece of jewelry or a trinket. There's a ring. The ring. Do you think that there's a symbolism of Adam and Eve when she goes to pick the apples from the apple trees? Ooh, interesting. I never thought about that. And they're like, ow!

Why would you like it if I picked your apples? I hope that's a deep sexual allegory. I was just like, I did not consent to you touching my apples. And she's like, ah, it's 1939. That's what I'm going to do. Not a word in the

zeitgeist and they were just like hey this would be pretty funny right I was interested like re-watching it this time I'm like

damn those tree costumes are really good those you know cause you're watching it in like high def you're like those tree costumes are still dope

and they're a little bit scary and I think the scarecrow and the tin man are really great too and the lion too but I don't like his face. The movie's very well done. Shout out to Victor Fleming.

What a year for him. Truly. Because he also directs Gone with the Wind in the same year. Oh, yeah. Wow. Yeah. So this is his fucking year. And was he a good guy?

No. Did he enjoy directing these movies no who said that he said he didn't like it well like every i'm a big old gum with the wind head as well oh yeah when she made that dress out of those curtains uh yeah pull that turn up we love that that's the part that we all love as fans well because, because he was kind of like... Sorry. Rip. Rip Baller.

He raped his wife. Wild. Anyways, that's a different episode. In The Wizard of Oz, we've got to hand it to them. No one gets raped. Congrats. Yeah. I mean, okay.

Victor Fleming directs both of these movies. He's not the first chosen director for either of these movies. And arguably, he's kind of like a figurehead for both of them. But great year for him. Great year for Victor Fleming directs both of these movies. He is not the first chosen director for either of these movies. And arguably he's kind of like a figurehead for both of them. But great year for him. Great year for Victor Fleming. Great year for Technicolor. Yeah, true.

I want to go back to Dorothy. Yeah, we should. Dorothy, as I was sort of mentioning before, she is like the driving force of the story. Most of her actions influence the direction the story takes in some way, so she's very clearly the protagonist. She does have to be saved at one point whenever the witch captures her and locks her in the tower, and she flips over an hourglass, and she's like,

you have this much time to live! Which... Annie M! Annie M! She mocks her. That's so good. Yeah, that's pretty funny. Yeah, that's so good. And she's always threatening to kill him. She's like, put the dog in the river and drown it. Just, man.

She is a mean, I love her. I love her. Like, they do have to come in and save her, which is a trope that we are always finding. But I would argue, unlike most gotta save the girl in Tower of Tropes, they probably wouldn't have been able to do that had she not infused them with a little bit of self-worth and self-confidence beforehand. That's true. Would the Cowardly Lion have gone for it if he hadn't met Dorothy and all his new pals first?

I would say probably not. I would say probably not. That's true. That's something. But also, okay, she's a lady going on her own path to get to the wizard, but the witch is on her own path to get those shoes. So really, the witch is kind of the powerful one that doesn't need to be saved. I mean, you can look at it a different way.

And unless I'm forgetting something, everyone who works for the witch is a very large man. Yeah. The flying monkeys and the winkies. Yeah, they're men. Mm-hmm. Yeah. She has an all-male workforce

who are contractually obligated to shout her praises at all times. That's pretty sick. They're like the little worker bees, and she's like the queen bee. Yeah. who are contractually obligated to shout her praises at all times. That's pretty sick. Yeah, they're like the little worker bees, and she's like the queen bee. Yeah, they all secretly want her to die, but like, hey, that's part of being the boss sometimes. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And then, although it happens sort of accidentally, Dorothy does defeat the villain. She throws water on the witch.

Sort of by accident, yeah it's like not she didn't make like a deliberate effort to be like i'm gonna defeat you now she just throws it and it accidentally lands on the witch but i mean it they get what they she she sets out to do a thing and then she does it and the all-male workforce are more than willing to embrace her as their new leader. They're like, well, we're used to women in charge over here. You step up now. And she's like, I'm busy. I got a bust going up at Munchkinland. I'm in their Hall of Fame.

Why can't you guys figure it all out? How long have you been here? Surely someone knows what's going on. Can we talk about the makeover sequence of They Get to the Wizard? Frank Morgan plays a great series of characters

before we get to the wizard. He's like, go away. No one wants to see you. And then they're like, but what if we get a makeover? Which is weird. But then even that, like, you know, if that was like an all, that's really the only other time we see women in Oz. Besides, you know, there's female munchkins.

There are the people in the Emerald City who do the makeover sequence, which I, as weird and arguably, I guess, needless as it is, I love the makeover sequence. Can you even dye my eyes to match my gown? Uh-huh. Uh-huh. It's a really good town. It's great. It's great. Yeah, and then they're like, take out those pigtails. Let's do an updo. And then go meet the wizard who sucks.

He sucks. Yeah, but they look great when they meet him. That's all that matters. Yeah, the wizard is like, he's like the biggest cuck of them all. He like does this whole, oh, look, I'm a fire and brimstone. I got a huge wizard head and I'm this great and all-powerful Oz. Yeah, it's been done before, Power Rangers. Did they even check? Hello.

And then he turns out to be a total fraud, a phony. That's a lot of the guys in this movie. There's not really a female character who's exposed to be a fraud. There are some female characters who's exposed to be a fraud there are some female characters who are very motivated for evil unless you're like but what if you saw the musical wicked which shut up not the same shut up it's not the same goodbye goodbye i enjoyed it but like go away for now i'll see the movie when it comes out go Go away for now, though. Hey, can I say something really dumb that everyone's going to hate?

Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Thank you. Uh-huh. I couldn't help but notice some similarities to Harry Potter, specifically the houses. I knew you were going to say this. Okay. Because, here's the thing, the line is all about bravery and courage.

That's Gryffindor. Tin Man's like, I want a heart. That's kind of Hufflepuff-y. Scarecrow, he wants a brain. Brains, Brainiac, Ravenclaw. And then, I guess the witch is Slytherin? And then Dorothy, for the 500th time, fuck Harry Potter. I checked out because I'm not a big Harry Potter fan.

I actively disliked it. Ever checked her phone? Yeah. I was like, now's a good time to check out. I actively dislike you ever checked her phone. Yeah, I was like, now's a good time. Well, for the fans at home who love Harry Potter. Harry Potter is ripped off of something. Great. Well, when I was in the Fringe, I walked through the graveyard and I did have coffee where J.K. Rowling sat. Oh, cool.

But I didn't know that until people were like, oh, that's where J.K. Rowling... Is that what they sounded like? Yeah. Also, to be fair, just making sure my grandma was okay. Fair enough. We'll see. That's a pure motivation.

Yeah, so I had to check my text and I was like, no, it's a good time. Hair part is bad, Caitlin. No, it's not. It's boring. Lemony Snicket is bad. Don't talk to me.

That's one I haven't seen. It's objectively bad. It's so badly written's not. It's boring. Lemony Snicket is bad. Don't tell me that's one I haven't seen. It's objectively bad. It's so badly written. I need to go home. I'm sick. I'm sick. All right. Does anyone have any final thoughts about the movie, how women are portrayed in the movie?

I do have a Harry Potter follow-up. And it's not mean. It's not mean. Because I know that we argue about that all the time. But I do think that if we're pulling the parallels of like Dorothy and Harry Potter, those are both central characters who are the moral core of the story. And if you look closely, there's not much there. But that's intentional because it's supposed to be like, oh, this is the person that the audience is like, this is me. I'm the star, you know.

So it's like just sort of one of those characters where everyone around dorothy is very interesting and very active and very flawed and all this stuff and then dorothy is like she's great yeah um and which i think is kind of the same for harry potter and that's i don't know it's a winning formula yeah harry potter don't argue that harry potter's an interesting character i'll flip this table no i wasn't going to i was gonna say that he is probably the least interesting character of all the characters in Harry Potter. But I think it's kind of on purpose. Yeah. So that, you know, the less you give this person to do besides move through this world of more interesting characters,

the more little kids are like, hey, that's me. Right. Because there's nothing interesting about me either. I'm nine. I identify most with the Tin Man because I don't have a heart. I don't know how to feel emotions. Man, this dude gave everything up for his wife,

for his lover. The Tin Man? Yeah. Is that the... Huh? The Tin Man. That's his story. That's why he got so rusted.

He needed an arm, so he chopped off his arm. He needed a leg. Yes, yes. So he worked and he worked why he got so rusted. He needed an arm, so he chopped off his arm. He needed a leg. So he worked and he worked and finally he got rusted. And then his wife passed away. And that's not like... You learn that in the book, though, right?

In the movie, too, I think, right? No, the movie boils that part down by quite a bit. But yeah, the Tin Man does basically cut off all of his extremities exactly why i identify with him i have no limbs kaylin's sitting here she's literally a chicken nugget but we love her i'm just the head i'm actually the great and powerful oz i'm just a floating head that would be so cool but i think in the book they also say that the Tin Man made a deal

with the Wicked Witch of the West. Did they? Oh, I don't remember that. I think I remember that. For the consciousness or for the brain. There's something there. I need to read that. What do the ruby slippers do besides able you to

get back to Kansas? It's infinite powers. What if that's the only thing they can do, though? Take you get back to Kansas. Oh, it's infinite powers. What if that's the only thing they can do, though? Take you specifically back to Kansas? I don't know. I mean, I guess in the movie version, I haven't read the book in so long at this point, but I'm sure it's in play.

And also in the book, there's silver slippers. And in the movie, they turn it to Ruby because they're like, we've got this technicolor. We've got a show of primary color. But it is silver slippers throughout the books. I don't really know. I mean, I guess we assume that they can do whatever you deeply want the most. The Elder Wand from Harry Potter.

Sorry. What are you talking about? I honestly don't know. I think I've seen like two of the movies. Do you like Harry Potter? Sorry. What are you talking about? I honestly don't know. I think I've seen like two of the movies. Do you like Harry Potter? He's so soft. What? He gives it a...

Medium thumb. Okay. I know there's fans out there who like Harry Potter. Tweet at me and we'll join a club. Let's join a Harry Potter club. Oh, I don't think there's enough Harry Potter fans out there. I think that's the real problem. That's the problem.

There just aren't enough. For crying out loud. It's not a worldwide phenomenon or anything but yeah i don't know i mean i i guess it were to believe it would fulfill your deepest desire because that's what dorothy wants more than anything is to go home so i guess all powerful yeah all right i'll believe it and then toto the most power like probably probably the least problematic male in the entire movie. He's a whole man. He's self-actualized.

And Toto, I mean, there are times where Toto like genuinely, I forget the specific part, but there are times where Toto literally like leads the scarecrow and the lion and the tin man in the right direction. Oh, well. And they're like, oh, oh wait let's follow the dog he's the one who um is like playing with the curtain that the actual yeah yeah yeah is behind and he pulls it across and he's like no don't expose me yeah exactly so tono is the protagonist of this story is what we're saying he's a smart little guy he's a smart little guy he's my dude yeah hey does the movie pass the bechdel test it sure does it does there's a smart little guy. He's a smart little guy. He's a smart dude. Yeah. Hey, does the movie pass the Bechdel test?

It sure does. It does. There's a bunch of different scenes. Starting with the chicks scene. Yeah. That was the first thing I noticed was when Dorothy comes in and is like, hey, this lady is trying to take my dog. And she's like, shut up. I'm trying to count chicks.

Yeah. 70? Yeah. shut up i'm trying to count chicks yeah 70 i hope that that was a hot improvised line by annie and she was like what's an impressive number for chicks and then a few scenes later dorothy antiem and miss gulcher all talking miss gulcher's like come to their house she's like give me the dog i'm taking him away i have an order from the sheriff. That's when Antiem's

like, I want to tell you what I think of you, but I'm a Christian woman, so I can't call you. She also cites 23 years as like, is that any? I'm 23 years old? That's great. That is great improvisation, though. Improvising, that's depth, that's starting

from the middle, that's giving a little background. We're like, wait, tell us more about 20, did you move from somewhere? She owns a lot of land. Okay. Yeah. Wow. You're setting up a scene. Is Miss Gulch their landlord?

We don't know. Well, I don't think so, because she's like, just because you own half the county doesn't give you the power to own the rest of us. Oh, the rest of us. Right. She's like, I'm not owned by you. Also, Ms. Gulch, what year is it? Get a car?

Okay. If you're a landowner, why are you riding a bike? Uh-huh. Maybe she wants the exercise. But then wear more practical clothing. I'm judging her. She's wearing, like, a dress that could get caught in the bicycle chains. But wait, even though this was filmed

in 1939, it may not have been set in 1939 because it's a horse in a carriage. He's fixing a cart. And they let the horse free when the tornado's there. Oh yeah, they do. And then even the horse comes

back in the Emerald City. That used to be my favorite part of the movie, is the horse that back in the Emerald City. That used to be my favorite part of the movie is the horse that changes colors. The horse have a different color. Talk about dip a pet. Yeah. They dipped that pet hard. I love that part of the movie.

Yeah, they had to dye those probably several different horses. I remember one time I was watching that movie with all my cousins and my cousin Chloe was like, the horse is like a mood ring. And we were Chloe was like, the horse is like a mood ring. And we were like, whoa, the horse is like a mood ring. Just some food for thought for all you intellectuals out there. There's a few other scenes where it passes the Bechdel test. Whenever Dorothy meets Glinda, she's like, are you a good witch or a bad witch? And she's like, witches are old and ugly.

And she's like, that can't be true because i'm beautiful i'm fucking hot love her love her dress and then the wicked witch of the west shows up and then they all talk and she's like who killed my sister was it you they talk about the ruby slippers in fact i think when women are talking to each other in this movie it's almost never about a man unless it's about the wizard or toto oh true toto yeah yeah if we're viewing toto as a man he's male he's a how does toto identify right they are they do talk about the wizard so let me retract that stupid thing that i said no no no i mean but i think that it's never like a romantic interest which right so you know this is a unless we're to read in.

Maybe Dorothy has a little crush on Hunk, which I think in this movie world, she probably does. If you're dreaming at the end, you're given a nice long hug to the Hunk figure. Who would it? But I mean, she's 12. Right. Toward the end, it passes the Bechdel test again. Dorothy is in the witch's castle. She like give me back my dog and she's like give me my fucking slippers and she's like no all conversations that pass the bechdel test so yeah i mean i think yeah i think you're right

that almost every exchange between women in this movie which there were a fair amount of pass the bechdel test and it was nice to to watch it with that in mind and be like, oh, you know, it passes as well as I would hope it would. It passes better than The Women, which does not pass the Bechdel test amazingly. Wait, does it? There are very small exchanges where they're not talking about a man. Hi, hi. But you're right, there wasn't a single man on screen the entire movie. Which is amazing.

Yeah. But also, they're never not talking about a man. They're never not talking about a man. I do love that movie. It's crazy. I'll give it another shot, but I don't think I'll ever like it. Anyway, let's rate Wizard of Oz. On our nipple scale, we rate the movie on a scale of zero to five nipples based on its portrayal of women.

I'm going to give it five nipples. Dorothy, I think, is a strong character, especially considering the time. Very iconic female protagonist in this movie has stood the test of time. She's in our logo for crying out loud. She is in our logo. Illustrated by our very own Jamie Loftus. I just picked the ones I liked. She drives the story.

She's making a lot of decisions. She does have to be saved, but as you pointed out, would the people who saved her have the tools to even do so if she had not empowered them in the first place? That's a great example of setting yourself up on the back end so that when you're in a fucking spot

you're like, well, at least I trained these people to rescue me. Yeah. And then the other female characters, they're distinct. They're in charge of stuff. They're making choices. They're doing their own stuff. They can count to 70 at least. At least.

But it seems like she kept counting. Yeah, she did. She kept putting them in a hat. Uncle Henry, meanwhile, was like, I didn't graduate past the sixth grade. I don't know how to get this high. I wanted a baby chicken. He's just like, oh, wow.

We were supposed to be counting this? So then we would just touch it? Yeah, I mean, especially compared to the men in the story, a lot of them are beta males. A lot of them have, like... All of them are beta males. Can we get a beta male counter on this? How many times have we all said beta males?

Beta's on the brain, baby. A lot of them are like, you know, subordinates of a woman who's in power. Give me your betas. Give me your subordinates. This is, I'm pretty sure, what's written on the Statue of Liberty. So, yeah, I'm going to say it's a five. Five nipples. And they all belong to the cowardly lion because he is a feline.

I think cats have six. I like it. Yeah. The cats have six nips? They might even have eight. Like even the boys? I'm not a cat fan. All boys have nipples. All embryos start out but six as female and then as we learn in jurassic park there's a but six i think so six for boys too

i'm gonna look it up neato i say it's a five nipple cast agree all around agree i feel like i've argued my points and even when she needed to be rescued, it was still being rescued from a woman who wanted the shoes back for infinite power. True. Okay, here we go. Eight nipples. Eight nips. I like that the picture's a cat with a banana.

Google how many nipples does a cat have, and then in very large font, eight nipples, and then a photo with a cat, someone holding a banana to the cat. To entice it, and all eight of its nipples. I give this movie eight nipples. No, I give it five nipples, too. I mean, I think especially for, I mean, if you're going on the yardstick of 1939. The Mickey Rooney. If we're going on the yardstick of Mickey Rooney's weenie world.

Circular. Which would not pass the Bechdel test because it is Mickey Rooney's weenie world. But I think, yeah, this whole story does a great job of empowering its female characters, almost as a bonus. It's like, and all the men are flawed in one way or another, and that's fun. But all the female characters are great. I give it five nips. I give two nips to the Wicked Witch of the East, because we don't get to see her nips. We get to see everyone else's nips.

Yeah, just her feet. We get to see so many nips in this movie. I'll give two of those nips to Judy Garland's bound down nips so she looks a little more 12, but she didn't look 12, so it's almost just like let her nips go free. And then I'll give one nip to

the lion, even though apparently he had seven others. Great. Hey, Ever, this has been a delight. Thank you so much for coming here and talking about this movie with us. Do you have anything you'd like to plug? Where can people find you online? You can find me online

at evermaynard, M-A-I-N-A-R-D dot com. You can find me on Twitter at evermaynard, Instagram at evermaynard, Facebook at evermaynard, Snapchat buttholes snapper 69 we almost had full synchronicity and then we hit butthole snapper 69 it's my snapchat um when does this go up this will go up mid june okay you can catch me and caitlin will be there

too for maynard town the next next edition. Hell yeah. Yes. If you live in Los Angeles, come to the Nerdmount showroom. Ever Maynard puts on a show called Maynard Town. It's an improvised town hall meeting. I play the safety patrol officer. Self-appointed. Self-appointed safety patrol officer. Talk about an empowered female character.

No one's going to put me in charge. I'll put myself in charge. No one puts Caitlin in a corner. It's dangerous there. Cool. Well, we're off to see the wizard. Well, anyways, thank you guys for having me. Thank you so much.

It's been a real my card lemonade time. Oh, we own her. Good night. Bye. Bye. Daphne own her. Good night. Bye. Bye. Bye. Daphne Caruana Galizia was a Maltese

investigative journalist who on October 16th, 2017 was assassinated. Crooks Everywhere unearthed the plot to murder a one-woman Wikileaks. She exposed the culture of crime and corruption

that were turning her beloved country into a mafia state. Listen to Crooks everywhere on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever This is Matt Rogers. And Bowen Yang. We've got some exciting news for you. You know we're always bringing you the best guests, right? Well, this week we're taking it to the next level. The one, the only, Katherine Hahn is joining us on Las Culturistas. That's right. The queen of comedy herself.

Get ready for a conversation that's as hilarious as it is insightful. Tune in for all the laughs, the stories, and of course, the culture. Don't miss Katherine Hahn on Las Culturistas. Listen to Las Culturistas on Will Ferrell's Big Money Players Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm Gianna Pradenti. And I'm Jermaine Jackson-Gadsden. We're the hosts of Let's Talk Offline from LinkedIn News and iHeart Podcasts. There's a lot to figure out when you're just starting your career.

That's where we come in. Think of us as your work besties you can turn to for advice. And if we don't know the answer, we bring in people who do, like negotiation expert Maury Tahiripour. If you start thinking about negotiations as just a conversation, then I think it sort of eases us a little bit. Listen to Let's Talk Offline on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.