The Bechdel Cast - Theater Camp

Episode Date: June 18, 2026

On this episode, Caitlin and Jamie head to summer camp to discuss Theater Camp (2023)!See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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The patriarchy's eff and vast Start changing it with the Beckdale cast Podcast Isn't home But is it kind of I think it kind of is I think it's so fascinating That you're able to engage with musical theater

Only ironically Welcome Welcome I like that you're going to be an honorary theater kid today Look, I went, I crossed a sea, an ocean to go see musical theater. It was Paddington the musical. That's true. That's true. But I loved it.

I know. I know. Do you ever listen to the soundtrack? Yes. Anytime I go on a walk, I've been listening to it. And the songs, they're burrowing into my brain. Oh, my gosh. What are the bangers?

Tell us. I would say the best song is probably. Pretty Little Dead Things. That's the villain song. Whoa. The Rhythm of London is amazing. Don't Touch That is amazing. Marmalade.

Obviously, there's a song called Marmalade and it slaps. Explorer and the Bear, honestly, like, hard stare. There isn't a weak song in the entire production. It's top to bottom, incredible. Highly recommend everyone listen to the Paddington, the musical soundtrack. And I'm not just saying that,

I love Paddington, it's like legitimately so good. So I love musical theater, it turns out. I cannot wait for there to be a touring production. I mean, I'm sure tickets will be in wildly high demand, but I can't wait. I would spend many dollars and travel great distances to see it again. Anyway, welcome to the Bechtel cast. Absolutely. The Bechdel Camp.

Oh, my God. Yeah. Do you think people would go? Yes. It would just be us criticizing the elements of the camp to be like, actually, this sucks. No, I think the Bexel camp would be really fun. It would be like this camp, very queer and very loud and very traumatic. Yeah.

Yeah. No, I think people would attend. I think we should do it. Absolutely. See you this summer, bitches. Yeah, I'm camp counselor Caitlin Durante. Who are you, Jamie? Oh, I'm janitor Jamie, who ends up actually stealing the show at the end of the summer, just like Ben Platt's husband.

And that is how I'll be referring to him throughout. Yes, yes, yes. Amazing. Anyway, this is the Bechtel cast. We examine movies through an intersectional feminist lens using the Bechto Test simply as a jumping off point. And what is that, Preytel, Jamie? Well, I'll tell you. It is a media metric created by queer cartoonist and presumably owner of the Bechtel camp, Alison Bechtel.

She's an investor. Yeah, she's an angel investor, I would say. She's one of the Patty Harrisons of the camp. And it's a media metric that she wrote in a comic that has since been adapted to a more mainstream way. Our version of the test requires that there be two characters of a marginalized genital. with names who speak to each other about something other than a man for more than two lines of meaningful dialogue. Now, it happens in this movie. It happens in this movie. And it's also not, I think this movie is interesting to me because it sort of reminds me of the Fire Island

discourse around the Bechdel test, where this movie doesn't pass the Bechal Test a ton, but in a way that is a great example of why it is just a jumping, off point for discussion. Totally. Where I do remember that there was, I mean, if you recall a couple years ago, there was like one bad faith actor online who is like, Fire Island, a movie famously about gay men on fire island doesn't pass the Bechtel test. How am I supposed to respect this thing?

And at this point, it's like, we're urging you to get over yourself and take a step back and look at the forest and not just. this tree you're angry at. Anyways, I'm so excited to discuss this movie today, theater camp, 2023, kind of some nepo baby excellence afoot here. Sure. Throw a rock and you've got someone with Broadway producer parents. And yet it is just like genuinely a really good movie.

And a movie that I feel like, even though it made more money at the box office that I thought it had. It made like 4.6 million. But I do feel like it was a movie that was kind of, what am I, I'm thinking knee-capped, knee-capped, that feels too dramatic. I'm thinking of what happened to Tanya Harding. There's like a phrase. My brain is not. Oh, I mean, it was held back. It was held back by the fact that it was released and would have been promoted largely during the SAG and WGA strikes of 2023, which is part of why I feel like there wasn't more noise made about this movie is because the creators and the actors were not going to cross a picket line to do so.

Sure. So unfortunately, I feel like this movie didn't really get as big of an audience or buzz as it deserved. I know. But today that changes. Today, they're getting the Vectalcast bump. And what an important and influential bump it is. It's so true.

I did see this movie in theaters. I was one of the few. I saw a trailer for it. And I was like, this seems so funny. It seems like a great cast. I love a mockumentary. And it got my butt in the seat. And it did not disappoint.

I loved it. I thought it was so funny. I am not, nor have I ever been a theater kid myself. but you don't need to have that experience to enjoy this movie because it's so funny. It's very heartfelt. The themes resonate with me because capitalism is the enemy and community is the hero of the movie. And I loved it. So I saw in theaters, but I didn't watch it since.

So it was a joy to revisit it. And because I barely have a functioning memory anymore, it was kind of like watching it for the first time to prep for this episode. And yeah, it was it was such a treat to rewatch. So, Jamie, what's your history with it? And I was also curious if you've ever been to summer camp before. Oh, have you? I did go to Girl Scout camp. Nice. But it was it wasn't like a long-term camp. It was like, it was sleepaway camp for like four days, four or five days kind of thing. So it wasn't like a a weeks long thing. But I did that.

We've got to bring back Girl Scout Cinema. Yeah. I feel like there was a moment in the 80s and 90s. I mean, obviously Troop Beverly Hills. Was that it? There was a more recent one called, I want to see it was called Troop Zero. Is that the name of it?

Oh, yes. Another movie that I feel like wasn't really given a proper promotional push. Yeah, because I don't think it had a theatrical release or if it did, it was like pretty sparse, but I thought it was maybe like a straight to streaming movie. I didn't see it, but yeah, there's only a small handful of Girl Scout movies and there should be more. But there's no shortage of set. This is, I think, the first theater can't. I mean, this movie shares so much DNA with one of my favorite mockumentaries ever and one that innovated the form waiting for Guffman, which we will be covering at some point.

Obviously, the filmmakers here are Christopher Guest fans. and are not shy about that, nor should they be. He's amazing. So, okay, my history with this movie is that in spite of it being a movie that is ostensibly made for me to watch, I hadn't seen it. I don't remember why. Summer 2023 was chaotic. I was on tour and then I was in the most toxic relationship of my life and then my dad got cancer. So I think like somewhere in the, somewhere in there, I just didn't see theater camp. Fair. But maybe it would have, maybe my father would be here today if I had. We'll never know. Well, we'll never know. I guess we will never know. Cinema heels, but it's too late. I'm in like a wild mood today. Okay. So, no, I hadn't seen it before, but I knew I was

going to love it and I did love it. I'm a fan of, I mean, this is, I did call them Nepo Babies, which is not a slur. It is true. But I'm a fan of like truly everybody involved in this movie. Molly Gordon is amazing. I think Ben Platt rips. I kind of don't know who that is aside from the context of this movie. Like, I know he, I know he's someone I should know. I know that Dear Evan Hansen is a thing. I don't know what that is.

So Ben Platt is a star of the stage and screen, but I think better known for the stage. He is the son. And as is Molly Gordon, they're both children of. tremendously successful theater producers who actually met at theater camp at a boogie theater camp when they were children. So the pictures that you're seeing of them are real. They're not Photoshopped.

But, yeah, Ben Platt is best known for starring in Dear Evan Hanson and also starring in the rather unfortunate theatrical adaptation of Dear Evan Hanson, which is one of the great wig crimes of our age. Enough has been said. about that I will not add. But Ben Platt, yeah, he's the son of Mark Platt, who I think most famously produced Wicked, and also famously is a huge Zionist, which Ben Platt is not. So we're breaking generational

curses. Ben Platt, I have only, I mean, little Hollywood insider stuff, I've just only heard the nicest things about him and that he's like a terrific and thoughtful person. There's a story I heard, I've heard more than once about Ben Platt and his husband, who also appears in this movie and also played Evan Hanson on Broadway. They were the first two Evan Hanson's, and then they got married. Wow. Now, if that's not a Broadway story, two Evan Hansen's getting married, tell me what is. Tell me what is. You literally can't. But it's this, like, lovely story that I've heard many times about, I forget who it is. It's like someone I know, sorry if I'm putting them on blast, but they got very drunk at a party and were kind of stumbling

home. And on the streets of New York came across Ben Platt and his husband, which she doesn't remember. And Ben Platt and his husband, Noah Galvin, let's say it, because he's terrific in the movie as well. Oh, yes. Also one of the screenwriters. Yes. Yeah. Along with a third Nepo baby, a third Nepo baby has hit the production team of theater camp. But the, the Evan Hansen, two, not just got her into an Uber and made sure that she made it home safely, but when she woke up, there was a care package from them. I guess she had drunkenly given them her phone number and they called her to make sure that she was okay. And that was how she learned that Ben Platt had gotten her home the previous night. Oh my gosh. And I was just so, I think of that story that is just so wholesome.

I hope that there's not something about Ben Platt that I'm missing because I'm really singing his raises, but he got a lot of heat for being in the bad Evan Hansen movie. And I just, he's also in the pitch perfect movies. Which I totally forgot. Yeah. I mean, I just think he's delightful. He's one of our seminal Broadway stars. I think he's like one of the millennial Broadway stars. And then Molly Gordon also fantastic. I know she had done she like her parents are movie and theater producers. She'd been off Broadway before. I saw her another movie she co-wrote and starred in last year called Oh High. Yes, I saw that on a plane recently. In fact, on the plane ride to London to see Paddington the musical. And also, Caitlin, I can't believe you didn't leave with this because you've

seen it and I haven't. She's in the sheep detectives. She sure is. Oh, my God. Molly Gordon of Sheep Detective's fame. I didn't know she was in this. Oh, my God. Now that's what she's most famous to me for. But she's also in Book Smart, Shibba Baby, the Bear, like, Rami. She's been in so much and she's also a great writer-director. This is the exact kind of movie that

like never gets made and I like when Nebo Babies use their powers for good and get a cool movie made. Indeed. I did go to summer camp and I did go to theater camp but they were not necessarily the same thing. I went to a community

theater like summer program just like in my hometown it was just like a day program okay so not like a sleep away camp no i did go to a sleep away camp but it was religious my theater camp was in my hometown and it was like it was called act one scene one in brockton massachusetts i did it i think three or four times and it was really fun yeah we couldn't afford what happens in this movie but we had we had we had a nice time. And I mean, regardless of what class you're in, the dynamics of a theater camp are pretty much always the same from what I can tell. It's just you can't stop theater children from being so loud and dramatic. Life will find a way regardless. I have like a very clear memory because I was very I was like never I was always a chorus girl in theater camp and then once I got

out of musical theater because I am not a good singer that's not true I mean thank you I wasn't clearing I wasn't clearing but yeah I did high school I did like high school drama club and all that stuff and then my sleepaway camp was in New Hampshire my cousin and I got a scholarship to go twice okay but it was like this like Jesus horse camp. Oh, I remember you've talked about this before. Yes. Yeah. So different experience.

I wish I had gone to a theater camp. I also went to band camp. I went to sleep away band camp. Oh, okay. Mrs. Obo. Mrs. Obo. Yeah. So, you know, like many children, my parents did not want me around in the summer

and would apply to various scholarships. I wouldn't have to be. But this is like, this I feel like presents. it seems like it's based on the experiences of the filmmakers and this is like the dream this is the kind of theater camp that I feel like every theater kid wants you know sure it's beautiful it's scenic seems like good vibes all around everyone who's been there has been there for since time and memorial like it's it's just awesome yeah uh well let's take a quick break and then we'll come back for the recap

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extraordinary. Stay close. It is a carac. Wow. Listen to learning to be human on IHard Radio, Apple Podcast. or whenever you get your podcast. Okay, so here's the story of theater camp. We meet Joan Rubinski, played by Amy Sedaris.

Love her. I love to start on an Amy Sidderas. Like, you just, I just didn't see her coming. She's there, barely, but she's there to begin with. I was like, wait, how did I know? No, she's in this. And the answer is because she kind of isn't. Right.

She worked for two days. because what happens is she runs a summer theater camp for kids called Adirond Axe. Get it? Swish. Uh-huh. I love the puns in this movie. There are so many. She and her colleague Rita Cohen, played by Caroline Aaron, are trying to recruit kids and raise money for the camp for the upcoming summer.

But in a middle school production of Bye Bye Birdie, Joan suffers a. strobe-light-related seizure and ends up in a coma. You hate to see it. You hate to see it. So now Joan's son will take over running the camp. This is Troy Rubensky, played by Jimmy Tatro, who I most recognized from American Vandal. Did you watch that show? I did.

Yeah. He's been a lot of stuff. But yeah, I throwback, because I was like, wow, that was almost 10 years ago. That's scary. Really? Oh my gosh. 2018. The lies.

Anyway, he is super bro-y, like, crypto-bro kind of guy. Not a theater kid type at all. So he's very out of place in this role of running this theater camp. Everyone else starts arriving at the camp for this summer. We meet a couple of the teachers. Best friends Rebecca Diane, played by writer-director star, Molly Gordon. and Amos played by Ben Platt, star slash screenwriter, because the movie was co-directed by Molly Gordon and Nick Lieberman,

who also co-wrote the screenplay along with Noah Galvin and Ben Platt. It kind of reminds me of, and again, I will stop sounding the Nepo Baby alarm at this point. Sure. But it does make me, it feels very, please don't destroy, that there is a token not Nepo Baby. and it is Noah Galvin. Got it. It's the second Evan Hanson. Right, right.

Yes. So Rebecca Diane and Amos are head of music and head of drama, respectively, at the camp. They are freaking out about Joan not being there. They hate her son Troy. And so do all of the campers, because, again, he is not one of them. He's a post-Ballone fan. Yeah. Rebecca Diane and Amos announce all the productions that will be going up that summer,

including an original that they will be writing and directing called Joan Still, a tribute to their boss, Joan. Meanwhile, Troy has fired several teachers in an effort to cut costs because his sort of journey throughout most of this movie is trying to, like, raise funds for the camp, save money, save the camp financially, etc. But he's trying to cut costs. So he fires several people and then hires someone to replace them all. This is Janet, played by friend of the show, Iowa Debrie,

whose resume is stacked, but who is clearly lying about all of her experience with things like stage combat, accent work, jousting, etc. If there is one thing I could want in this movie, it's more I am. I know. But I'm assuming she, this was a year where she had like 500 movies come out, so I'm assuming that there just couldn't be more scenes with her. Yeah. But they're all very funny. So funny. We also meet characters like technical director Glenn, played by Noah Galvin, costume designer Gigi played by Owen Teal and head of dance. Clive played by Nathan Lee Graham. Wait, really quick, because there's also, none of

of them get like extremely characterized but I really enjoyed the child cast of this movie as well they're just so talented I would watch a spin-off show with just the kids sure but my favorite child and I think it's just like it reminds me of the kid in school of rock who is like the costume designer slash it or like Miranda Cosgrove in school of rock there's a lot of school of rock energy to this movie. Sure, sure. But I love Alan who plays the tiny manager or like the tiny agent. Aspiring agent, yeah.

A tiny agent is going to get me every single time. So funny. And he's also the kid from Minari. Yes. That character reminded me of the kid in Wet Hot American Summer, who is always sort of off on his own broadcasting a radio show that's not actually hooked up to anything. Oh, right.

not broadcasting, but he's like talking into a microphone that's not plugged in, just in the sense that they're like both like off on their own kind of doing their own thing, not involved with most of the other stuff that's happening. Shout out Alan Kim. Yeah. You're a legend. Yeah, his character I think is Alan Park. So there's him. There's this kid Devin. The joke with him is that he's straight, but his, he's closeted straight. Yeah. But he's, but he's, there because his gay dads sent him to theater camp. Great. There's a teenager named Darla, who is one of the stars of Joan Still.

Yeah, there's a bunch of great kids in the cast. Yeah. Okay, so then it's time for these kids to audition and we get a fun montage. But it's interrupted when Caroline Krauss, played by Patty Harrison, comes in. She's a financial consultant there on behalf of Camp Lakeside, a nearby camp for super rich kids. And she tells Troy that the bank is weeks away from foreclosing on Camp Adirondacks because of defaults on mortgage payments. But Caroline thinks they can work some deal out. But technical director Glenn overhears this conversation and tells Troy, do not do any deals with them.

Camp Lakeside is like trying to take this land. They've been trying to get this land for years. All this to say, the stakes are high for Camp Adirondacks. Meanwhile, the counselors deliberate on which kids to cast in which roles. The cast lists are posted. and there's a mad scramble to see who got which part. Some kids are happy. Some kids are upset.

Darla, who we mentioned earlier, is cast to play older Joan in Joan Still. Then there's a younger girl named McKenzie who's cast to play like the younger Joan. Then we see the kids in classes and Janet, Clive, Gigi, Amos, Rebecca Diane. are teaching. There's another fun montage. And even Glenn teaches a class on stage managing and lighting and stuff like that. I appreciated that because of this movie's budget, which was not publicly available, but like I can't imagine was especially high, made it so that they could only afford to license so many Broadway songs, obviously. And I can't imagine Post Malone was cheap. at least three years ago, it might be cheap now.

Sure. But in any case, that they had to, like, write some Broadway sounding shows for the audition montage. Right. Even though obviously Jones still is all original music. But, like, there are some things that I was like, what is that from? And the answer is nowhere. So, good job movie. But one kid auditions with a wicked song.

Yes. Defying Gravity. And they probably had access to that because of Ben. Because of Ben Platt's dad. ...Iconic Zionist Mark Platt. Yeah. Mark Platt, I mean, I don't even want to like sully this discussion with his politics, but he sucks ass. But that is very likely why they were able to use Wicked specifically.

Right, right, right. Yeah. Anyway, so we see this montage of the counselors teaching various classes, including Glenn, although we've been getting some hints that Glenn is a talented performer. in addition to being a talented behind the scenes person. This is my favorite. Like, I am such a sucker for this narrative. Even if, like with Glenn, you can see it coming from 100 miles away.

But it's like seeing Lady Gaga step on stage during a star is born. And you're like, I wonder if she'll be good. And it turns out. Twist, she is. And Noah Galvin, who's like a decorated Broadway star, turns out they got pipes. Mm-hmm. Yeah. So then Rebecca Dayan and Amos start writing Jones still and then start rehearsing it with the cast.

Meanwhile, Troy is trying to raise money for the camp. So he hosts a dinner with potential like donors slash investors and has some of the campers act as waitstaff to serve them the meal very theatrically. Because he's also starting to, he's also trying to understand. the theater kids and like meet them on their level kind of thing. The thing with Troy that I appreciate is like a stock character that I is like fairly new, but I'm growing to really appreciate, which is like the gentle hymbo. Sure. Because I feel like 20 years ago, this character would be written as wildly homophobic,

as hateful to the entire project of theater. but he's just like kind of clueless but curious and I like the gentle hymbo and Jimmy Tatro has played many a gentle hymbo yeah yeah I'm into this new but I'm I'm coining well I don't know maybe the trope has been coined but I'm coining the stock character and I'm claiming him yeah I literate but gentle yeah I'm I'm fine with this character as well you know hymboes But the whole thing with a hymbo is that they do tend to be they're nice but stupid. They're like clueless, but they're like sweet and gentle usually. Right.

So that's him in a nutshell. Anyway, he's he's like trying. He's trying to understand what his mom does here. He's starting to appreciate what she has done to build up this camp and build this community. and he wants to keep the camp going. But this dinner that he hosts goes poorly and he doesn't get any investors involved. Meanwhile, Rebecca Diane is receiving mysterious phone calls

about, oh, is she available that night for something, but we don't know what. And then she keeps disappearing when she's supposed to be doing like a performance for the campers. She disappears when she's supposed to be at the annual mixer with Camp Lake. side. And Amos keeps being like, where the hell is my best friend? What is she up to? We don't know. And at said mixer, Troy really hits it off with the banker, Caroline. And he signs the camp over to her,

though sort of accidentally he like doesn't really realize what he's doing. He misunderstands the deal. But either way, he's fucked up and he has like, sign the camp over, which most people do not know about. Most of the counselors are not aware of this. Then it's tech week where they're doing all the tech rehearsals and everyone is scrambling to get all the productions ready, especially Glenn, who everyone is making all of these demands of. He's running around all day doing everything behind the scenes. Everything but singing. Yet. Meanwhile, Amos is pissed at Rebecca for not being around, and he has not seen the big finale for Joan Still that she was supposed to be working on.

And it's clear that she still hasn't written it, but she pretends like she has and improvs this terrible song on the spot. And Amos is like, what the fuck was that? And she reveals that she has been preoccupied because she recently got a job job. She signed a two-year contract to perform on a cruise ship because she wants to be a performer and not solely a teacher. And she feels that Amos has maybe been holding her back and she's made various sacrifices to stay working with him. But she's done doing that. And Amos feels utterly betrayed. Then Caroline comes in to announce that Camp Lakeside has bought Camp Adirondacks, and they're about to, like, tear it down.

The kids are horrified. It's chaos. It's unclear if Joan still will be taking place, because it seems like it's dead in the water. But then Troy realizes that the contract he signed says that Camp Lakeside can only take over Camp Adirondacks if the bank forecloses on it. but if they prevent that from happening, they can still save the camp. So Troy goes to Glenn to encourage him to revive the production of Joan Still, since Rebecca and Amos have kind of bailed on it. Yes.

And then Troy invites a bunch of his business influencer buddies to the show as potential investors in the camp. but oh no the star of Jones still Darla is leaving early leaving before the performance because she booked a movie role I love that so much of Ben Platt's troubles towards the end of this movie have to are involved with like low stakes opportunities for women he's relying on yes yeah true because Darla is like I got a role in a movie about a pregnant gymnast So I have to go do that. But he says like a line, oh, God, it made me laugh. He's like, I'm not in a place where I can handle industry sides right now. Yeah.

And it's awesome. Yeah. But he agrees to help her prep for the role anyway. And he's like, okay, what are this character's allergies? And she's like, what? And he's like, oh, we have so much work to do. You're useless. It's so funny.

Anyway, so Darla is leaving. So we're like, oh, my God, who's going to be? play old Joan. Mm-hmm. The show begins. The songs are wild. They were making me laugh. They're good.

I also like, I just, the number of like really fun theater tropes that are like gotten into here. And the fact that it's done by like legitimately very talented kids. It just, it was making me emotional. The whole, like, it reminded me of like how to succeed in business without even trying where they're like stocks.

stocks, stocks. And then, like, how, and I say this with love, but the way that theater portrays addiction sometimes is so corny and over the top. And they're like, cue the cocaine. It's just like. The paper machine knows. Also, the first song is about how women can't read. But like, but that also feels very, like, tongue in cheek of like how,

especially the further you go back in theater, how broad and corny immigration stories could be told. It all feels like done with, I mean, obviously like experience of the actual like theater, but just with so much affection for it, even the like problematic and corny parts. Right. Well, the song itself is obviously problematic, but you see like the audience members like looking at each other being like, what the fuck is this? It's satire.

Yeah. So it's just good satire. It's great. So Joan still is happening. And then we get the reveal that old Joan is being played by Glenn, who does an amazing job. I also love the little tongue in cheek of like the fact that they're married to each other. And that when Glenn is good, Ben Platt is. like, I'm genuinely upset. I'm genuinely upset about it. He's like, oh my God, he's amazing.

Which is such a theater. Like, just, oh, what is more show business than resenting the success of a loved one? Come on. It's true. Yeah. And then it's time for the big finale, which is partly Rebecca Diane's improvved version of the song. But it turns out that she ended up finishing it and polished it and it's actually pretty good. And during this. And of course, there's a spoken word portion of like, here's how theater changed my life. Here's how.

And the ending, I will say, is done pretty sincere. Uh-huh. You mean with like the campers, like expressing how important camp is to them? Yeah, just like most lines in that concluding song.

Like there are some joke lines, but for the most part, like the message of the song, unlike the song about where women shouldn't be allowed to read. And one of my favorite jokes in the movie, Jufka is dead. Et cetera. But it is like a very sincere song about how theater camp can change your life, which is, you know, makes total sense given why we have this movie.

For sure. Yeah. Yeah. It's really sweet and sentimental. And during this song, Amos and Rebecca Diane apologize to each other. and they have a tearful reconciliation. And then the text on screen says that Troy's influencer buddies loved the show, but it turns out they have no money to invest,

and they are under investigation by the SEC. But someone else makes a sizable donation to the camp because the show really spoke to him. It's Troy's Airbnb guest, which... Very last minute. I, silly. DeSX Airbnb guest. Exactly. Yeah.

I learned just the other day from a friend of the show, Molly Lambert. Did you know that that convention of like the where are they now or like here's what happened next thing was invented by George Lucas? No. According to Molly. I have in American graffiti. Okay. A movie I have not seen.

But apparently that was like not a common thing to do in movies. prior to that, but there's a silly character that I guess we meet in American graffiti, a movie I would like to see and sounds like it would be worth covering. But like it's a, you know, teen movie. And they do that thing at the end where it's like, here's where this teenager ended up. Here's where this teenager ended up. And one of them, it just says without further comment, he died in Vietnam, which was obviously like a big George Lucas political, like, I mean, George Lucas was very anti-Vietnam exam.

Star Wars, A New Hope. Or not anti-Vietnam, anti-The Vietnam War. Right. But anyways, I just, I, now every time I see that, I'm going to be like, wow, that was George Lucas's idea. I had no idea. But they're used very frequently in documentaries. Yes, for sure.

Yeah, I didn't realize that. I've seen American graffiti, but it was, it was during the great Caitlin movie binge of 2005, so it was decades ago. Yes. But, yeah, so we get all these, all this text on screen about, like, where are they now? But the camp is saved, it seems. And we even get to see Amy Sedaris one more time.

Yes, yeah. She wakes up. And she's like, don't let Troy run the camp. It's very funny. But yeah, that is the movie. So let's take a quick break. And we'll come back to discuss. Pride is like love.

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I feel like for me, because we've recently covered a, we, okay, this is a good plug for the Matrion. If you haven't been a Matron subscriber, which you can do right now, Patreon.com slash backtelcast $5 a month gets you access to two new movies a month as well as a back catalog of over 200 episodes. That said, we recently did Catherine O'Hara month. who is a mockumentary icon because of her appearances in Christopher Guest's work. And so many of the notes that we had about Best in Show, which we covered, are fully, like,

this just feels like a more mature version of that, of that format where there are some dated stereotypes around queer people that appear in that movie. And in basically every movie that came out in the 2000s. unfortunately that by the time we get to Molly Gordon, Ben Platt, Noah Galvin, and the fourth guy. Nick Lieberman. Shout out to him. That like this is a just like fully queer satire of like a very loving queer satire. And I love it.

It's like everything that you would want from a mockumentary without the dated problematic elements of watching certain mockumentary. Totally. Yeah. Yeah, I, and again, I can't speak from personal experience about the theater camp experience or being a theater kid, but from everything I've read and heard from people. It definitely gets it. Like I think, yeah. Especially given, like, who is making this movie where it's like, you're hard pressed to tell to Evan Hansons that they got the theater community wrong. they definitely got it. Yeah. Just to share a quote from Noah Galvin, he spoke to Glad at, I believe, the premiere of this movie,

which was at Sundance. Yes. So pre-strike. So they got to promote it a little bit and then they had to stop promoting it. And then I think, I don't remember if the SAG, let me check when the SAG strike ended.

Oh yeah, I don't remember the exact date. I think it was, after. Yes. So, yeah, so the writer's strike, I believe, ended sometime in the late spring in 2023, so they could promote it in a writing capacity. But SAG was on strike until November of 23, which is why most of the promo you'll find for this movie was prior to both strikes, because for the most part, it's like, you have to imagine Ben Platt and Molly Gordon and Noah Galvin are both members of the WGA and SAG. Yeah. So a little bit of strike lore going on there. Yes. But yeah, before that, they were able to

promote it. It premiered at Sundance. Glad was there and they were talking to various members of the cast and the creative minds behind this movie. And we're just kind of asking about like, what makes theater such a safe space for the queer community? Because many of the characters in this movie are queer many of the cast most. If one of the crucial jokes is a young boy coming

out as straight it's safe to see almost everybody in this movie is queer or queer coded. Exactly. Yes. So Noah Galvin says this quote theater is a space for people to express themselves and try on different personalities

and step into other people's shoes and I think it gives people the freedom to really explore. And I think throughout those processes of being able to try on different costumes and selves, you end up really finding your authentic being, unquote, which... That's beautiful. Which is a sentiment that resonates throughout the movie where it's so clear that the kids and the counselors have found their people and their community at theater camp.

And they are among people who they feel comfortable, you know, being themselves around. and exploring themselves around and that they're wary of someone like Troy because he represents the type of person who typically doesn't embrace them and doesn't make them feel comfortable to be themselves. Like there's that moment when Amos goes up to Troy to be like, kids are here because they found community,

they're sort of like the outcasts from heteronormative society and they are accepted here and they belong here and you're not one of us because like Troy is this like super broie he's a jock totally there's one of my favorite moments is when he is like up at the podium in the like cafeteria area and he's like talking into the microphone and then some kid just goes sishead bitch it's so funny but um but But to your point, Troy, like, comes around or he doesn't fall into that, like, stereotype of being, like, super toxic cis-hete bro guy who's going to reject everyone he sees because... No, and, like, as misguided and the... I don't know, like, every Patty Harrison character is the funniest character in a movie, and it's just, like, too bad for anyone else who was in a movie with her.

But his whole thing... Like I appreciated it. It was, and I feel like this is normal for mockumentaries. There's really only room for like one or two actual emotional arcs. And then you're getting just like a lot of characters, which is definitely true for this. It's very focused around Rebecca Diane and Amos's friendship. Yeah. But I do like that with Troy, you get the feeling that like this whole journey in spite of the fact that

he like has one brain cell is like he's trying to. save his mom's business. He's trying to like and in the process is like learning and better understanding who she is and how loved she is in this community that he has never really been a part of, which, you know, it's like clearly not like the emotional thrust of the movie. Sorry for saying thrust. I mean, music to my ears. I know. It's kind of your thing. Sorry. It's okay. But, you know, like it I appreciate that that is like present and again it's like there were so many lazy tropes that if this was written by a straight guy 20 years ago probably would have been present and isn't here which I think is one of the this movie's many strengths is that this movie is written primarily by women and queer people I don't really again sorry to nick Lieberman I don't really know anything about him

So while there is, as we discussed at the beginning, certainly a lot of privilege to the primary creative team. The movie is also written and directed by women and gay men. And that's who you want to be writing a movie about theater camp, especially someone who, like, the specificity. I mean, there's a specific dynamic in this movie that I'm excited to talk about, which is like a codependent. again, it's like something that we've seen in tropier ways, but there's this codependent friendship that exists between Rebecca Diane and Amos that evolves over time that I'm sure many people have seen themselves in. I saw myself in this relationship between them. Where it's like a same straight or a woman who's attracted to men who falls in love with her best friend who

turns out to be gay and not interested. And then it's like, okay, processes that information. And then the two of them go on to form one of the most codependent friendships to ever exist. It is such a unique dynamic. And it's so specific. And it's expressed, I think even in the, like, even though it's over the top, it's so loving. And I just really appreciate. And that like, they build in a way that I think, again, like a lesser. less tapped in writer group would have, you know, basically American pied it and turned it into this like big, broad, goofy story. There are like real dynamics that exist, obviously within that friendship as would any, like of professional rivalry of like, I am afraid of you succeeding in ways that I'm not because what does that say about me and what does that say about us? And just. I don't know. I feel like this movie really nails this specific friendship dynamic and, in a greater sense, codependent friendship dynamics in general. Totally. Another hilarious joke. A lot of my notes for this movie is just I've written down all the funny jokes that I like about.

And that's feminism. And that's feminism. Because the movie is just so damn funny. But there's a scene where the counselors are, gathered around a campfire and kind of sharing stories and experiences. And IOS character says something like, yeah, it seems like the two of you have a really codependent friendship. And Amos is like, no, we don't. We just heavily depend on each other. It's like, there's, I mean, obviously codependent friendships exist across the sexuality spectrum.

But there is something very specific about this codependent friendship. that felt both loving and familiar. And I would imagine a lot of this movie's target demographic knows what the shape of this friendship is. Definitely. And I do like that this movie has the courage, and I do think it is brave, to have not every character be successful to the extent that they wanted to be at the end of the movie. It's something that I always really like about Christopher Guest movies as well, where I feel like very often this convention of, like, like, and here's what happened to them, is used to be like, and don't worry, whatever struggles they were having at the end of the movie, they went on to achieve their wildest dreams.

And in this case, like, that's not true. They end up basically normal, which in some ways you could say is hilarious coming from Ben Platt and Molly Gordon to objectively very successful people. Yeah. But just from a writing perspective, I did appreciate that like he continues at the theater camp. And I think maybe my favorite joke is he starts the. check off like theater program for children of divorce, um, which is just a great joke. Um, yeah. And, and, and that Rebecca Diane, you know, does like go on to experience success,

but like she, she arrives at the bottom of the middle of theater success, which is like playing a minor role on a cruise ship. Yeah. And I really, um, I really liked that. I feel like at the end of those movies you expect, especially in, I think, like 2010s and 2020 movie culture where we, everyone needs to have a redemption arc and like we there is especially movies directed at younger audiences. I'm thinking about more recent Pixar movies too where it's like no one is allowed to leave with a bad feeling and no one can die or get a boo-boo. This is me being a Republican. I guess. Yeah, wow.

These only snowflake movies. I'm Tucker Carlson. No, but I am really like we need to be pushing villains off cliffs and failure should be an option. quitting should be an option yeah yeah like life is messy life you heard it here first and it should be represented that way on screen take it from a podcaster in year 10 things don't always work out the way you expected wow jen this was your lifelong dreams this was my dream no you're right you're right but i just i liked where everybody landed at the end of the movie i thought it was very charming right Right, because at the end of legally blonde, for example, it's like, and L. Woods graduates

Magna Cum Laude of Harvard Law School and goes on to be the best lawyer ever. Unfortunately, with Elwoods, I guess I will make an exception. I'm like, I believe it. I believe that she did that. But yeah, I don't know. I just, this is, again, like the dynamics in this movie are so specific and so, like, broad, but also, I guess, specific and broad at the same time, which is just, like a good satire. I'm trying to think of other characters. Characters I would have liked to see

more of, but I'm assuming we were not able to because of availability. This is, I mean, especially in like a cast this large, you have to imagine that they were not always able to get a ton of people all the time. But Owen Teal is so funny and so talented. He plays Gigi. Yes, he plays Gigi and has been in so many things in the last couple of years, but I feel like has yet to have like his big moment. I'm looking forward to it using overcompensating and adults. Two shows I iconically have not watched, but I hear people like. And he also is a Nepo baby because you have to be to be in this movie.

Of course. Let's see. What else? Oh, and Nathan Lee Graham as Clive. Who just, I have to assume, like, he just, like, was not available because he's on stage constantly. Just a legend. We talked about him recently because he's, he has a small role in Hitch. He does.

And Zoolander. He's been in so many movies we've covered because he's also in Sweet Home Alabama. Oh, right. Yeah, he's in everything. And originated one of the Broadway roles of Priscilla Queen of the Desert. Oh, no kidding. There's so many Nathan Lee Graham overlaps. certainly a queer icon and the love for theater in this movie is clear and then and then you have like a few people from the comedy world as well you have obviously like amy sadaris who i don't know if she's ever done broadway i feel like she has but i don't know

i don't know either her energy to me says yes let me let me let me let me check this um yes okay actually so much yes okay So that makes sense. So she's Broadway. But I love, I feel like Iyo and Patty are so well used in this movie. Patty's character, like who becomes a larger character than you expect in a really fun way. She becomes like Jimmy Tatro's love interest. But it doesn't seem like they're going to end together because I'm pretty sure the last you hear of her, she's like, this sucks. Yeah, she doesn't like the production of Joan Still.

meanwhile that's his mother that's his mom and he feels so endeared by the performances I was really kind of taken I was like wow Jimmy Tatro is moving me right now this is crazy it's just like it's it's a great ensemble cast there are certain people that I would have liked to see more of I think um like we were talking about Owen Teal Nathan Lee Graham Iyo to that point one of my notes about this movie is that it does center, like the cast at the very center of this movie are white actors. And it is a racially diverse cast, but the main characters are predominantly white. And all of the characters that I would have liked to see more of too, like you said, G.G, Clive, Janet tend to be non-white actors and characters. Yeah, which I do think is more of a contemporary thing. that I've noticed. I don't know if we've ever like specifically talked about it, but having a diverse setting, but not necessarily a diverse movie in terms of whose stories are prioritized. We're, I don't know, whatever. Pretending this movie came out in 2003, not 2023, I think we would have

a story that centers white actors and they're surrounded by white actors. I mean, Christopher guest movies are a great example of them. this. But now it's like we are still primarily especially like and this it wasn't a gigantic release but it was released by searchlight. Like it was a big enough release for this to be a worthy criticism. It still centers white stories but they're in a more diverse environment, which is maybe like not the flex that it seems like. Right. And in any case, and there's always, I will qualify that with, like, I have no idea what this, like, it's very possible, I think certainly with people like I.O. who are like constantly working. Oh, and Teal is working a lot. Like, that this is just like how it shook out based on availability.

But does feel worth mentioning. And I mean, you know, you look at the writing and directing team and it's like they're putting themselves as the main characters. which is understandable. This happens a lot. But also it's like, okay, who gets the opportunity to write direct and star in their own movies? It is usually white people. And white people from very privileged backgrounds. Right. Which is what this movie is. And again, it's like I say that, do I say that out of bitterness? Yes. But it is also like worth mentioning in a way that I hope, like it doesn't take away from their, you know, artistry. Like this movie is really good.

They're talented writers and performers. And also objectively, they're going to get to the front of the line each and every time because of how society works. Yes. I honestly don't have a lot else to say about this movie, just that I think it's so funny. And there are so many hilarious, jokes, puns that I loved, the Gentra vacation project.

Oh, yeah. Caroline Helms. Yeah, that was her brainchild. That was her brainchild. Meanwhile, Troy is doing on Troypreneorship. Funny. Okay, I did hate that one. But it's, this, like this movie is everything that I feel like we're constantly

being told are the kinds of movies you just don't get anymore. and I think it is like a nice reminder that we do get movies like this. With some frequency, they're just like way harder to get made and seen than they once were because Hollywood Studios don't invest in promoting original stories like this. Yeah. Yeah. So if you're wondering like, oh my gosh, why aren't they making like these fun indie style movies like they used to? They are.

You just have to look harder for them, unfortunately. Totally. Yeah. People are always saying like, oh, everything that comes out is a Marvel or a Star Wars or whatever other huge franchise movies, big studio IP movies. And that is a lot of what comes out and a lot of what gets the big budgets and all the promo. Yeah. But in this year alone, 2023, when Theater Camp came out, there was also Dix the Musical, which was. Yes, another movie that didn't get its did.

Totally. Polite Society came out this year. Wicked Little Letters came out that year. One of my favorite films from 2023. It's fun. And the thing that is, and I guess like that that's not even, we're not even criticizing the audience for this because I feel like there is just like so much gaslighting in the way that like the way that people are told quote unquote what audiences. want because if you look at like box office numbers to get pedantic for a second if you look at box office numbers for these like big tent pole like marvels or marvel style releases they're making way less money than they used to because people get burnt out they get sick of seeing the same kind of movie over and over and over and original stories are doing much better even though they you know still often need and this has been true forever like some star power to get them out there. I'm like thinking about the drama as a recent example of like that movie made over a hundred million dollars and it's an original story. Whether you liked it or not, like it's a great case study for it. And it's like people want to see original stories, but I feel like we're still kind of that most original stories, especially if you don't have a huge star or you don't have a rich parent or whatever it is, like it's just going to be harder for your work to get seen.

but it doesn't mean that it isn't happening. And, you know, the next time you see a headline that's like, no one wants to see original stories. That's why we're disinvesting in them. It's just not true. It's just not true. It's like the same. I feel like we've had this conversation around like movies for women and specifically

older women of like how I think of like the first wives club example while. And while that is like a wealthy white movie, but that was a great case study for, oh, well, we don't think this audience exists. And then it very much existed. Black Panther, same thing. Even though that's a Marvel movie, they're like, there's no market for a black superhero. And then it makes a billion dollars. It's just, okay, that's my little rant for the day.

You're so true. Also, Bottoms came out this year. So, like, some of the funniest movies that have come out in recent years, many of them came out in 2023. these were all original stories, lower budget films that were so funny and smart and... And did find their audience, but didn't get the push they deserved. Exactly. Do you have anything else you want to talk about? I don't think so.

Yeah, no, this is just like a good... If you haven't seen this movie, it is, I believe, on Hulu. and it's a great movie to like invite some friends over and have some fun. I have yet to hear of a theater fan friend who has a negative thing to say about this movie. Like they did it right. They sure did. Yeah. And like you said, it does pass the Bechtel test.

It does. Yeah. And we already talked about it at the top of the show. I don't think we need to belabor the point any further. But what about our nipple scale? The Bechtel cast nipple scale where, or the Bechtel Camp. Hell yeah. Scale where we rate the movie on a scale of zero to five nipples, examining it through

an intersectional feminist lens. Right, right, right. I'm going to give it, I think, like a 3.75. Nice. It's doing pretty well. The representation we see is very diverse across. gender, sexuality, I would say to a lesser extent race, because again, the movie does center the white characters. But there's body diversity. We see it's a very inclusive group generally.

Again, one of the sentiments that keeps being expressed throughout the movie is, and that like the cast and the filmmakers have talked about when they speak about this movie and they speak about theater camp and theater kids. and just theater experience in general, that it is an inclusive group and that everyone is welcome because, you know, like Island of Misfit toys kind of thing. So there's places where I think it could have been more inclusive in general, but it's doing a great job. It's so funny. There's so many good jokes in this movie.

The cast is terrific. The Jones still. should be winning Tony's. I mean, if you enjoy the soundtrack of the movie, it did come out. I do believe it is streaming, which is kind of as is Dick's the musical. So, yeah, I feel like 2023 was a great year for musical comedies that were under-promoted. And it's a crime. And it's a crime to humanity.

And in the 2020s, for some reason, we have no idea or willingness how to promote musicals. Anyways. It's true. So 3.75. Who are you giving them to? Oh, just everybody. Okay. Everyone in the cast and crew.

Hell yeah. Because the behind the scenes people matter too. Wow. So true. Glenn. I will meet you there. I think that for our metric, yeah, there are certainly like a few notes. On the rompometer, on the amount of fun this movie is.

10 out of 10. 10 out of 10 and that it's like doing um i think it is like a clear progression in this genre specifically that is like very encouraging and very cool and is a more inclusive approach to the mockumentary genre that we don't always get and yeah it's super funny i really love it and you should watch it if you haven't i am going to give my nipples to i guess i'll just split my 3.5 nipples among the writers. But I'll give two to Molly Gordon because I'm a really big fan of her work. I think Rebecca Diane is so funny and I also felt very seen by her.

Sure. Yeah. There you have it. You can follow us on Instagram at Bechtelcast. You can subscribe to the aforementioned Matrion. Absolutely. At patreon.com slash Bectalcast. You already said all the things.

200 plus episodes in the back catalog that you get access to two brand new episodes every month on an amazing theme. And that's where you can hear most of our mockumentary episodes, I believe, are over on the Matrion. Oh, yeah, because we've done best in show. We've done what we do in the shadows, among others. Among others. We've been doing the show for 10 years.

Please be patient with us. Grammars are going to bed. But yes, if you if you want more, there is so much more. And it's also just like such a fun community. And we will be announcing our 10-year tour later in the year. And you will get first pass at tickets if you are a matron. So head over there for that. And with that, let's go audition for the next regional production of Jones still.

I'm there. Bye. Bye. The Bechtelcast is a production of IHeart Media, hosted and produced by me, Jamie Loftus. And me, Caitlin Durante. The podcast is also produced by Sophie Lichtenen. And edited by Caitlin Durante. Ever heard of them?

That's me. And our logo and merch and all of our artwork, in fact, are designed by Jamie Loftus, ever heard of her? Oh my God. And our theme song, by the way, was composed by Mike Kaplan. with vocals by Catherine Voskrasinski. Iconic and a special thanks to the one and only Aristotle Acevedo. For more information about the podcast, please visit Linktree slash Bechtelcast. Joy is essential and it's also elusive, but now there's a new and exciting way to start

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There was no anything inside those eyes. They turned black. It scared the hell out of me. Evil, wake up. I'm the one that saw the murder take place by Krivac. DePripo. Anthony DePippo showed no signs of remorse, appearing unfazed after being sentenced to the maximum.

I said, I'm not guilty. I'll take it to the grief. Listen to the devil's quarry in the Bone Valley Feed on the IHeart Radio app. Apple Podcasts, wherever you get your podcasts. All right, listen up. The Jonas Brothers here. Our podcast is called, Hey Jonas.

We've here, since everyone has a podcast, we want it to as well. And we've had some incredible guests so far. And now our good friend Nile Horn is joining the show. How's it going, boys? Hey, Niall. It's the same thing with Slow Hands. Slow Hands is not about anything else, really, is it? You know, or taste so good can be about food.

You do the same, Nick, with some of the stuff that you've done. You too, Joe. Drop what you're doing and listen to Hey Jonas on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your podcasts. Happy Pride from the Outspoken Podcast Network. All month long and all year round, we're celebrating being loud, proud, and always original. It's me, Brandon Kyle Goodman,

host of the podcast, Tell Me Something Messy. Check out my show for unfiltered takes on dating, relationships, and adulting. Listen to High Key for the best pop culture takes and there are no girls on the internet for all your tech news. For your favorite celebrity key keys, check outlaws with T.S. Madison.

Learn to love yourself unapologetically with BFF, Black Fat Fem. And start your day with intention with waking up with Ryan coming in July. Celebrate Pride with the Outspoken Network open your free IHeart radio app. Search Pride and listen now. This Black Music Month,

The Quest Love Show celebrates the visionaries, shaping culture through sound. From Country Trailblazer Mickey Gaiden to hip-hop icon Favive Freddie, the sonic genius of Thundercat, and the revolutionary voice of Chuck Dean. I want it loud. So the timing might be off,

the sound might be muffled, but what's going to come out of there is something that you can feel. Celebrate Black Music Month with special episodes of the Questlove show. Listen on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.