The Bechdel Cast - Triangle of Sadness with James Adomian

Episode Date: November 7, 2024

Beautiful models Caitlin, Jamie, and special guest James Adomian discuss Triangle of Sadness on the intercom of a luxury yacht! Follow James on Instagram at @jadomian and check out his website jamesad...omian.com and his special, Path of Most Resistance See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Starting point is 00:00:00 Chelsea and they're here on dear Chelsea. I am joined by my longtime illegitimate baby named Kevin Hart We talked about his birth. We talked about his afterbirth. We talked about his childhood his adolescence and that's pretty much where he is right now What do you mean? You don't think no is going on with your legs that they need washing It's your body you wash your body Chelsea your entire body. You don't pick and choose. I have hot spots There's coming from one of us to the other person. You to me. Yeah, usually. That's true. I'm not going to lie.
Starting point is 00:00:32 And you take the abuse very well. You almost seem to enjoy it. Well, yeah. I mean, I've just grown accustomed to it. Right. Okay. That's what I wanted to say. That's what it is.
Starting point is 00:00:40 Find Dear Chelsea on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Marie. And I'm Sydney. And we're... MESS. Well, not a mess, but on our podcast called MESS, we celebrate all things messy. But the gag is, not everything is a mess.
Starting point is 00:00:59 Sometimes it's just living. Yeah, things like JLo on her third divorce. Living... Girl's trip to Miami. MESS. It's just living. Yeah, things like JLo on her third divorce. Living. Girl's trip to Miami. Mess. Breaking up with your girlfriend while on Instagram Live. Living. Living.
Starting point is 00:01:12 This kind of mess. Yeah, well, you get it. Got it? Live love. Mess. Listen to Mess with Sydney Washington and Marie Faustin on iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Starting point is 00:01:27 Hey, Beau. Hey, Beau. Hey, Matt. Can you believe we have yet another very special episode coming up? This one is very close to my heart. We'll be joined by Friend, the star of the upcoming Wicked film, the one and only Ariana Grande,
Starting point is 00:01:40 will be here in the studio with us. We hope this episode of Last Culture gives you so much joy. The episode is dropping this Wednesday, my birthday, November 6th. And of course, please go see Wicked when it comes out. November 22nd, don't miss it. Listen to Lost Culture East us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Starting point is 00:01:57 My name is Brandon Kyle Goodman. I'm a black, gay, non-binary author, TV writer, actor, and I'm messy. But not in the way you think. Messy as in, I'm human and flawed. I'm on a mission to destroy shame around sex. And the only way to do that is to talk about sex. So that's what we'll do on my brand new podcast, Tell Me Something Messy. Join me on Tell Me Something Messy with brand new episodes every Thursday on the iHeartRadio
Starting point is 00:02:27 app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. Hey, friends. I'm Jessica Capshaw. And this is Camilla Luddington. And we have a new podcast. Call it what it is. You may know us from Graceland Memorial, but did you know that we are actually besties in real life? And as all besties do,
Starting point is 00:02:49 we navigate the highs and lows of life together. Big or small, we are there. And now here we are, opening up the friendship circle to you. Listen to Call It What It Is on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. On the Bechdel cast, the questions asked if movies have women in them. Are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands or do they have individualism? The patriarchy's effin vast. Start changing it with the Bechdel cast.
Starting point is 00:03:20 Blah. Wow, incredible. That was me barfing and shitting at the same time. God, something really so satisfying about seeing someone just slip around in their own goo. Especially a rich fuck slipping around in their own waist. Yeah, from both holes. Just projectile both holes.
Starting point is 00:03:43 And that is the thing that I remembered most strongly about this movie. And what does that mean? I was like, yeah, class commentary. And do you remember the scene where both holes were exploding? And I think that's just like human nature. I knew that there was a deep message and I saw this movie, I think twice. And as I was returning to it last night, I was like, hmm, when is both holes happening? Welcome to the Bechtel cast. My name is Jamie Loftus. My name is Kaitlyn Durante.
Starting point is 00:04:12 This is our show where we examine movies through an intersectional feminist lens using the Bechtel test as a jumping off point. And that's a test, of course, created by queer cartoonist, Alison Bechtel. Also she credits Liz Wallace as a co-creator. That's why it's sometimes called the Bechdel Wallace test and it is a media metric that has many versions. Ours is this, do two characters of a marginalized gender have names? Do they speak to each other? And is there a conversation about something other than a man? And we especially like it if it's a narratively substantial conversation.
Starting point is 00:04:52 A nice, meaty conversation that you could puke up later. Yeah, shit out, puke, whatever you want. Which, as we'll discuss, is not really that much of a problem in this movie, which is wild in a two and a half hour movie where basically two men start a podcast on a sinking ship, which is like really fun. And they're really like forcing it on the people around them in the way that a lot of podcasters do. I felt like representation matters. So yeah, say we are talking about Triangle of Sadness 2022 movie from, oh God, I'm going to say Ruben Ostlund. Is that right? Okay. Yeah. Great. I thought I was going to have an Edwin McGregor sort of brain problem. No, I think he's going easy on
Starting point is 00:05:40 us with his name. This Ruben Ostlund. Yeah. And this is sort of in, I'm excited to talk about, well first talk with our guest and also talk about how this movie sort of came out at the time where like rich people satire was, there were like five, I think movies and TV shows that had similar themes in like this calendar year, but I like this one the best. So let's, let's get our guest in here. Let's do it. He's a comedian. His new special is out now called
Starting point is 00:06:08 Path of Most Resistance. You can find it on YouTube and 800 Pound Gorilla. It's James Adomian. Welcome. Hello. Hi, Caitlin. Hello. Hello, Jamie.
Starting point is 00:06:19 How's it going? Good. Happy to talk to you both. And I was excited to talk about this movie because I remember it being one of two extremely funny movies of 2022 that I laughed a lot at. You know, I don't know if it passes the Bechdel test and I was interested in finding out.
Starting point is 00:06:42 We'll tell you. We'll get there, we'll get there. It very well might not. What was the other movie in 2022 that was really funny for you? Official Competition. Oh, I haven't seen that. Me either.
Starting point is 00:06:54 You know, it's not Alma Dovar. It looks like an Alma Dovar movie because it has Penelope Cruz and Antonio Banderas, but I'm gonna see who the director is. It was very, very funny. And it was clearly like a film in the pandemic because it's a cast of basically three people. Oh, that rocks.
Starting point is 00:07:10 It was basically two actors who hate each other, and Penelope Cruz is the director who puts them in a movie for the first time. Oh, that's a fun premise. That sounds great. Oh, it was Mariano Cohn and Gaston Duprat. The movies I was thinking this was kind of in conversation with, That sounds great. Yeah. Oh, it was Mariano Cohn and Gaston Duprat. Okay. The movies I was thinking this was kind of in conversation with, and I was finding like
Starting point is 00:07:29 some old kind of click baity pieces to this effect, was like it was Triangle of Sadness. It was, was it the meal, the food? What was it called? The menu. The menu. The food. The meal. Which didn't do very much for me, nor did Glass Onion, did even less.
Starting point is 00:07:47 And then you have The White Lotus, which I do like, but it was interesting because I feel like these movies all sort of had made being rich still look kind of fun, and Triangle of Sadness does not make being rich look fun at all. I feel like it's the only one that really effectively depicts misery at every class level in a really funny way. Anyways, James, what is your history with this movie,
Starting point is 00:08:13 this director, take it away. Okay, so Ruben Ostland, I did not see Force Majeure, which I've been meaning to for years, which was the one about the avalanche at a ski resort. And the father who runs away from the family. Which they remade as an American movie with, I wanna say Will Ferrell. And Julia Louis-Dreyfus, I think.
Starting point is 00:08:36 I haven't seen either, I should. Yeah, let's do more American remakes of everything. Yeah. There was too much snow. There was too much snow. So I did see probably in 2018, I believe his previous film, you know, the second of the three that I know of. The square?
Starting point is 00:08:55 The square, which was very funny. And I wasn't expecting it to be, I thought it was gonna be like an art film and it was much funnier than I thought it was gonna be. And that was kind of like a satire of the art world and how people have to pretend that obviously ridiculous art is very important. And there was moments of that in this movie that are very, very funny in the square. So I guess, you know, you make a couple of funny movies. If it runs two weeks in America, they consider that a hit for an international production.
Starting point is 00:09:27 True. And so, I mean, when I saw there was a preview for this and I was like, this looks interesting. And then I saw, I was like directed by, you know, from the director of the square. I was like, yep, that's the one. Got to catch it. This is for me. Hell yeah. I imagine they must have had to film it during the pandemic as well.
Starting point is 00:09:45 If it came out in 2022, it must have been like an early production or one that they were sitting on. Yeah. I was reading up about this production halted for some amount of time because of the pandemic. It was one where they were like doing constant co I read something like they did over a thousand covid tests throughout the production and each one turned up negative. So yeah, they were like shooting during the, I think height of the pandemic.
Starting point is 00:10:11 Wow. Yeah, and it's kind of like a, it's a hermetically sealed cast for most of the movie on a boat or on an island. Yeah. Right. It's gonna be interesting to have to like spot COVID movies in the future where you're like, why do they never leave this room? And you're like, Oh, right.
Starting point is 00:10:29 I wonder if there's movies like that from 1920 or 1919. Right. Oh, because of the Spanish flu. Yeah, exactly. No wonder Buster Keaton was at the front of the house, fall on him and everything. Nothing else. It all makes sense. He couldn't get any other actors in there to prop it up. Yeah, and so I was like delighted. I saw this movie in opening weekend,
Starting point is 00:10:51 Triangle of Sadness, and really laughed loud. Really like almost too loud the way I do. I really laughed too loud in the theater, but it was so fun to see it. It reminded me, you know, after the lockdowns and stuff, it reminded me of the joy of like a shared experience of a large room full of people in a packed movie theater laughing at the same moments. Oh, a beautiful thing.
Starting point is 00:11:19 It's a beautiful thing to be a part of. Yeah, it was just so fun. It was so fun. It was a beautiful thing to be a part of. Yeah, it was just so fun. It was so fun. You know, the kind of rolling laughter as a scene builds and goes where you're like, oh no, they're not. Oh yes, they are. It's fucking awesome.
Starting point is 00:11:35 Like I loved, yeah, getting to see this movie in a full theater, everyone should get, like it still holds up by yourself, but it's way better with people. Right. I actually have not watched it by myself. I'm looking forward to doing that. I thought it was so funny.
Starting point is 00:11:51 And it's interesting because it's like, there's two parts, there's basically two different movies. Kind of three almost. Yeah, before the ship, on the ship, and then after the shipwreck. Yeah. Yeah, you're right.
Starting point is 00:12:05 It's like there's a through line of a couple characters, basically, that go through all three, what you could consider short films or something. Who knows? Maybe it was written that way in case they, you know, they didn't get the funding immediately and had to go the proof of concept short film route, which a lot of people do.
Starting point is 00:12:22 Right. Yeah, I feel like this movie could very easily work without part one, which is like just the two models arguing about gender roles. Who to pay the check, yes. Yeah, yeah. But he's cooking. Mm-hmm. Jamie, what's your relationship with the movie?
Starting point is 00:12:37 I also saw this movie when it came out. I also have not seen Force Majeure. I'm almost certain I've lied about it though. So if I told you I'm almost certain I've lied about it though So if I told you I saw it I was lying to try to get through the conversation a little easier It's an important movie. Yeah people do love to say have you seen force majeure and I haven't but I have said I have but I haven't So this was my first Ruben Auslund movie and I really like it. And like
Starting point is 00:13:07 we're saying, a lot of similar movies came out around this time. I think this is like the most fun one. I was kind of burned out on this concept. And so I sort of went into this movie not being sure because I think I'd already seen the menu at this point and been like, okay, would see glass onion later and be like, Ryan Johnson made $100 million doing this movie, like, what are you talking about? Like, sure, you know, eat the rich, but also accept $100 million, shit like that, right?
Starting point is 00:13:35 Like, Ruben Aslan, I think, gets it the most clear and I really enjoyed it. And that's my entire history with this movie. Caitlin, what's your history? Very similar. I saw it in theaters, really liked it. It was probably my like fourth favorite movie of 2022. Brave. Laughed a lot. I feel like I had a similar theater going experience recently with The
Starting point is 00:14:01 Substance where things escalate and you're just like, oh my gosh. Because what's unfolding on screen is just chaos and grotesqueness in a really fun way. I also thought I had seen The Square, but it turns out I was thinking of the movie The Box starring Cameron Diaz. Oh. I was like, wow, it's crazy that he directed The Box. There's also Cube. It would be really funny if people had like an award show and they gave the award to like a movie thinking it was another movie.
Starting point is 00:14:36 Oh no, we were thinking of, ah, not The Box, but The Cube, oh my God. We gave best international picture to 2009 movie the box whoops I haven't seen the box it's like absurdly not very good but I enjoyed it they receive a box and if you press the button you get a million dollars but someone dies okay interestingY Well, I'll check it out someday. The point is, I really liked Triangle of Sadness, and I remember it was nominated for a handful of Academy Awards, including Best Picture.
Starting point is 00:15:16 I remember the conversation about how Dolly DeLeon was snubbed for Best Actress, although she won a couple other accolades that year for the movie. Won the Pomme d'Or at Cannes. I was like, I have good taste. I liked this movie and other people did too. But anyway, yeah, I really enjoyed it and there's so much to unpack.
Starting point is 00:15:41 You said something interesting. It got nominated for a couple of Oscars, I guess. And I don't, it might've won one, but maybe not. But it struck me as unusual because I'm conditioned to expect that the best movies won't even be considered for Oscars. Usually, yeah. And that there's a certain kind of like less good movie
Starting point is 00:16:02 that's considered for Oscars where they're aiming for the accolades of the award shows and this didn't feel like that. It felt like much funnier than anything that usually gets considered for an Oscar. So I was interested that it slipped through. Yeah, I feel like that's been happening. I mean, not to like over give the Oscars credit, but I feel like that's happening more and more in a way that's kind of encouraging that poor things did as well as it did, stuff like that. Everything everywhere all at once from the same year. Yeah, like weird stuff.
Starting point is 00:16:35 Well let's take a quick break and then we'll come back and do the recap, shall we? Right. Chelsea Handler here on Dear Chelsea. right. What is going on with your legs that they need washing? It's your body. You wash your body, Chelsea. Your entire body. You don't pick and choose. I have hot spots. There's harassment coming from one of us to the other person. You to me. Yeah, usually.
Starting point is 00:17:15 That's true. I'm not going to lie. And you take the abuse very well. You almost seem to enjoy it. Well, yeah. I mean, I've just grown accustomed to it. Right. Okay.
Starting point is 00:17:23 That's what I wanted to say. That's what it is. Find Dear Chelsea on the iHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Marie. And I'm Sydney. And we're MESS. Well, not a mess, but on our podcast called MESS, we celebrate all things messy. But the gag is not everything is a mess. Sometimes it's just living. Yeah, things like JLo on her third divorce.
Starting point is 00:17:49 Living. Girls trip to Miami. Mess. Ozempic. Messy, skinny living. Restaurants stealing a birthday cake. Mess. Wait, what flavor was the cake, though?
Starting point is 00:18:01 OK, that's a good question. Hooking up with someone in accounting and then getting a promotion. Living Hooking up with someone in accounting and then getting a promotion. Living. Breaking up with your girlfriend while on Instagram Live. Living. Living.
Starting point is 00:18:12 This kind of mess. Yeah, well, you get it. Got it. Live love mess. Listen to Mess with Sydney Washington and Marie Faustin on iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, Beau. Hey, Matt.
Starting point is 00:18:29 Can you believe we have yet another very special episode coming up? This one is very close to my heart. We'll be joined by friend, the star of the upcoming Wicked film, the one and only Ariana Grande will be here in the studio with us. We hope this episode of Last Coach gives you so much joy. The episode is dropping this Wednesday, my birthday, November 6. And of course, please go see Wicked when it comes out. November 22nd, don't miss it. Listen to Lost Culture East us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
Starting point is 00:18:54 or wherever you get your podcasts. My name is Brandon Kyle Goodman. I'm a black, gay, non-binary author, TV writer, actor, and I'm messy. But not in the way you think. Messy as in I'm a black, gay, non-binary author, TV writer, actor, and I'm messy. But not in the way you think. Messy as in I'm human and flawed. I'm on a mission to destroy shame around sex. And the only way to do that is to talk about sex.
Starting point is 00:19:17 So that's what we'll do on my brand new podcast, Tell Me Something Messy. OK, let's play this messy round of Smash or Pass. OK, here it is. Smash or Pass. Spit play. it is, smash or pass. Spit play. I don't know. I don't know how I feel about bodily fluids being on me
Starting point is 00:19:31 unless it's... Oh! Ha ha ha! Because we're doing the pullout message. We're living on the edge. Oh my God! I was not expecting that. Baby, like I always say, if you know how to work that body, that sexualness, and that
Starting point is 00:19:51 heart, you're unstoppable. Embrace your power. That's really what we're going to do on this show. Join me on Tell Me Something Messy with brand new episodes every Thursday on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. Hey everyone. This is Courtney Thorne-Smith, Laura Leighton, and Daphne Zuniga. On July 8th, 1992, apartment buildings with pools were never quite the same as Melrose Place was introduced to the world. It took drama and mayhem to an entirely new level. We are going to be reliving every hookup, every scandal, every backstab,
Starting point is 00:20:36 blackmail, and explosion, and every single wig removal together. Secrets are revealed as we rewatch every moment with you. Special guests from back in the day will be dropping by. You know who they are. Sydney, Allison and Joe are back together on Still the Place with a trip down memory lane and back to Melrose Place. So listen to Still the Place on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts. And we're back. All right. So here is the story. We open on a casting call for male models Here we meet Carl played by Harris Dickinson who goes in for an audition
Starting point is 00:21:34 there's also this like I guess documentarian who's interviewing some of the male models and It's like oh is this a grumpy brand or a happy brand and the cheaper the product that's being sold, the more smiley the models and the more expensive the product or the brand, the frownier they are. I thought that was really funny. The casting directors see Carl, they're pretty judgy about his appearance. Yeah. And you're like, this Swede has a thing or two to say about America. One of them asks Carl to relax his triangle of sadness. Hey, that's the name of the movie. We're all cheering. We're cheering. Yeah. Yeah. The family guy joke.
Starting point is 00:22:16 Normally it doesn't come so soon into the movie. Usually it's like, oh, and that's the silence of the lambs. And it's like somewhere in the third act, but. Yes. Or there's like a wasteland where dystopia has landed upon the earth. And somebody's like, truly, it's always been a triangle of sadness. Right. But this we get it like five minutes into the movie. Not to keep bringing it up, but I bet that happens in the box.
Starting point is 00:22:44 Surely they say the box early on in the movie. Oh yeah, like what's in the box? What's in this the box? Yeah. That should be a quote in every movie, not just seven and the box. It's true. It's wild that it happened twice. And that's the only time the phrase comes up in the entire movie, right? I think so. Yeah. Yeah. And it refers to the like area between your eyebrows. Crucial area of making facial expressions, I guess. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Starting point is 00:23:12 Especially sadness. We don't want to be making facial expressions. Now I'm playing with my triangle of sadness. I can't help it when you start talking about it. I'm like, oh. Yeah, that's true. People hate when people move their faces around when you start talking about it. People hate when people move their faces around when you're supposed to look a certain way.
Starting point is 00:23:29 They're like, how does static a face is humanly possible? Right, because they're like, maybe he needs Botox. And that would really do numbers. He's like 24. Okay, so from here, the movie is divided into three parts part one is called Carl and Yaya referring to Carl and his girlfriend whose name is Yaya played by ooh, and I don't Actually know how to pronounce her first name. It's just Charlie. Charlie. Okay Yeah, Charlie Dean who is a model and influencer and who makes more money than him because as it's mentioned earlier,
Starting point is 00:24:06 modeling is one of the few industries where women tend to earn more money than men. And this does not bother him at all. He's not bothered by it. He's absolutely fine with it. It's fine. Uh huh. Is that when they fight over the check? Yeah.
Starting point is 00:24:20 Yeah. So Yaya expects Carl to, for example, pick up the bill at their expensive dinners, and he confronts her about this. He also questions why it's so hard for her to talk about money, and he speculates that it's perhaps because it's so tied to gender roles, and he resents that she subscribes to stereotypical gender roles of the man expected to be the financial provider. He tells her he feels used. He wants their dynamic to feel more equal. And then she's like, but what if I become pregnant and I can't work as a model anymore? What then?
Starting point is 00:24:59 And then the conversation kind of like tapers off because we then cut to part two. Unfortunately, I do. I mean, not to say I frequently say, actually this whole conversation has been a test and you failed, but you know, many such cases, it's happened. Well, I mean, I've got thoughts. I can't wait to talk about this
Starting point is 00:25:20 because again, there's lots to unpack. It was interesting for me to watch that scene and see what exploration of beautiful people having an unpleasant dinner with their problems that they have. Yeah. I know. You just don't expect it to happen.
Starting point is 00:25:35 Because they're talking about money for sure, but they're also not talking about money. There's just so much going on. And they're both so hot and so unable to communicate. Right. It's great. So then part two called the yacht, we see a luxury cruise on a large yacht is about to set off. And a I don't know what her job is like guest services director or something. or something, this character named Paula, she's addressing the service crew
Starting point is 00:26:04 about how they should work hard to make this a great experience for the wealthy passengers in the hopes that they get a generous tip. And they start like chanting. It kind of reminded me of like the McConaughey and DiCaprio scene. Like the chest pounding thing. Yeah, capitalist pounding of the chest.
Starting point is 00:26:24 Scary, so scary. Yeah, where it's like pounding of the chest. Scary. So scary. Yeah, where it's like, hey, team, get together. Time to make a bunch of big money. Go team. Yeah. Right. The chest pound of class mobility. Frightening. So we see them, we also see the cleaning and housekeeping crew and there's a clear class hierarchy
Starting point is 00:26:44 even among the crew and there's like a clear class hierarchy even among the crew because it's implied that they're on a lower hierarchical tier than the service crew. And one such member of the housekeeping crew is trying to clean the room of Carl and Yaya who are on this cruise, but they pretty rudely dismiss her telling her to come back later. And boy does she come back later in the story that is. Swish. Then we see some of the other wealthy passengers on this cruise such as Dimitri, his wife Vera
Starting point is 00:27:23 and his girlfriend Ludmilla. He's the like, I sell shit guy because he made a fortune from selling fertilizer, like agricultural fertilizer. This is my favorite character in the movie. He's fun. This is the James Adomian favorite character. I was gonna say, this is just the idea of the king of shit
Starting point is 00:27:43 is just so satisfying. And his name is Lotko Burek, This is just the idea of the king of shit is just so satisfying. And his name is Lotgo Burek and I, he's the character actor from Eastern Europe and I followed him on Instagram after the movie because I thought he was so funny. He's really great. Got him in him and Woody Harrelson. I wouldn't listen to that podcast, but many ex boyfriends would. Yeah.
Starting point is 00:28:03 When he's first introduced, I mean, there's a magnetic presence to his character where he's quizzing the couple that we've already been introduced to. And he's like, so you travel the world looking beautiful? Pretty good gig. Meanwhile, I'm the king of shit. Meanwhile, I'm the king of shit. Yeah. And he's supposed to be like from, he's like, you know, he lived through communism in Eastern Europe somewhere and became this like very wealthy capitalist businessman. Yeah, they explicitly say he's Russian.
Starting point is 00:28:38 So yeah, he's right. The character is Russian. The whole movie is full of these topsy turvy things where it's like the man who's not making as much as his girlfriend because of this particular industry and then like The Russian capitalist and the American communists and all this kind of things He loved to see it So we meet him and his various partners we meet Clementine and Winston they're the older British couple who we will later learn are weapons manufacturers, Mr. and Mrs. and Grenade. War industrial complex.
Starting point is 00:29:14 Yep. We meet Therese, who recently had a stroke. She uses a wheelchair and has limited speech. She can only say a few words in German as a result of this stroke, ender vulkan. Do we know what this translates to? They say it in the movie, Up in the Sky. Oh, OK. So we meet her. We meet this uber-rich code developer guy, Yarmou,
Starting point is 00:29:41 who Carl and Dimitri think seems kind of lonely and pathetic, but then he ends up flirting with both of their girlfriends. And then they lose it. Yeah. Yes. Yes. He seems like the dorky guy and he's the wealthy guy in the boat. Yeah, exactly.
Starting point is 00:29:59 But the money plays in the board game. That's right. Meanwhile, Paula has been knocking on the door of Captain Thomas, trying to get him to come out and attend a safety drill or to plan the captain's dinner, but he keeps saying he's not feeling well, though it's heavily implied that he's actually very drunk all of the time. We recognize the voice of Woody Harrelson, of course.
Starting point is 00:30:24 Oh, we ain't come back later. Yeah. Yep, yep. I love his performance. It's incredible. I really love that his, I mean, I guess, spoilers of you, you should just watch the movie, but like, that his character is confined to this second act only. It just, it feels right. I like it. Yeah. Then one of the rich people, Vera, this is Demetri's, his wife, insists that all the
Starting point is 00:30:50 crew should go for a swim because quote unquote, everyone is equal and the crew works too hard. But that night is the captain's dinner and there's not really enough time to like facilitate allowing the crew to go for this casual swim. Also, off the water slide too. It's just a weird humiliation ritual for the entire crew. Absolutely. It's obviously commentary on what rich people think, their idea of generosity or their idea of equity. There's all these repeating, at the beginning of the movie you have
Starting point is 00:31:27 like the, I don't know, I guess this is a Ruben Oslin thing. Again, I lied about seeing Force Majeure, so I don't fucking know, but how at the beginning the fashion show where it says like, everyone is equal now and you have the parade of models and then that image is kind of repeated. And the second act with like the crew on the water slide and whatever on and on. The slogans, the slogans that are deployed in place of any kind of fair treatment of people. Exactly. Cynicism masquerading as optimism.
Starting point is 00:31:54 I had to keep pausing to like write down all the like horseshit that they're putting on at the fashion show. It was fun. Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Something interesting about that scene too is that there's like people sitting in the front row of the fashion show, but they're made to move because they're not as important as the people who need their seats.
Starting point is 00:32:12 So there's like all these hierarchies and even within like upper class people or, you know, like working class people, there are still hierarchies. It's very interesting. So there's this swim that the rich people are insisting on and the chefs in the kitchen are like, well if we leave the kitchen and go for this swim the food was gonna spoil but everyone is still basically forced to do this crew swim. Right, not gonna argue about it. Right and also a storm is on the horizon.
Starting point is 00:32:46 And all of this culminates in almost everybody getting very, very ill at the captain's dinner. They're puking everywhere. Well, it's like all the rich people, because I also didn't pick up on this the first time, it's because they're eating the food that is spoiled and it's their fault that it's spoiled like that. Precisely. Yes. It's because they distracted the crew. Yeah.
Starting point is 00:33:08 I was like, why are only the rich people throwing up? You're like, oh yeah, because they're eating like poisonous jelly or whatever. It's great. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So yeah, that's planted. It's kind of subtle, so I could see why you would miss it. But it seems to be a combination of food poisoning and sea sickness because there's this like
Starting point is 00:33:25 storm that's rocking the boat. But the people who avoid it are, for example, Captain Thomas, who eats a burger and fries for dinner. Which also happens in the menu. There's a huge like, I was born in the middle class, but now I have money like that is, I guess, signaled through a cheeseburger. Eating a, yeah, exactly. I don't know why Demetri avoids getting sick also, but he manages to evade the barfing and the diarrhea. Right, it's only the people who had the seafood or something like that, which is the popular dish.
Starting point is 00:34:01 And it's a fantastic visual imagery. So good. Because you realize it's almost like the director Ruben Oztlund, he sets up, there's an element of setting up these characters as like a kid playing with toys. There's these rich people that are dressed in tuxedos and now oops, they're going to shit and vomit everywhere. and now, oops, they're gonna shit and vomit everywhere. It is honestly one of the most memorable and cathartic and gratifying moments I've ever seen in any movie ever.
Starting point is 00:34:34 Just like watching these rich people in utter despair, humiliated, puking everywhere, shitting themselves. Helpless. It's beautiful. We covered The Exorcist earlier this week. So it's just been a really great week for projectile vomit on the cast. It really has.
Starting point is 00:34:51 Yeah. Huge. I mean, I guess in the preview, there's some hint that there's something like this that happens, but you don't realize the scope of the scene because you think, oh, like a lot of movies, you're like, well, okay, they're gonna cut away from, like they're gonna imply it and get enough out and then they're gonna cut away to the aftermath or some other way of showing it,
Starting point is 00:35:10 you know, where there'll be like, they'll just show vomit running from under the door or whatever and then you realize shot by shot, oh, he's gonna show all of it. He's gonna show like 50 people getting seasick and food poisoning at the same time. It's like a 10 minute sequence. It goes on so long. And it keeps escalating to where like at some point the plumbing starts overflowing
Starting point is 00:35:35 with literal shit water and it's like seeping out into the hallways and everything. So we're watching all that unfold. Meanwhile, Captain Thomas and Demetri are getting drunk and discussing their political ideologies with Captain Thomas being a Marxist and Demetri being a capitalist. And then they go into the captain's quarters and, like, you said, Jamie, start a podcast over the intercom. Yeah, it's a hostage podcast. They're speaking over the Intercom and presumably everyone's sick and recovering from what just happened. And this is my favorite scene of the movie,
Starting point is 00:36:12 the conversation they have with each other. Because they're both very funny. It's Woody Harrelson and Zlatko Burik. And they're these opposites in two different ways because it's the And there are these opposites in two different ways because it's the Eastern European capitalist and the American communist, which is rare but not impossible. And it's statistically rare, but there's lots of communists in America and they're not just all constantly protesting.
Starting point is 00:36:38 Sometimes they have jobs and stuff. Sometimes they're the captain of a luxury cruise. It's a little bit of an absurdity. It's definitely like, oh, well, that would really happen, but that's not why I go to the movies. And, uh... Yeah, I mean, it's like, and it felt like Ruben Asim was like aware of that too,
Starting point is 00:36:55 because the first time I saw it, like the scene is so fucking funny. The Woody Harrelson character does say it where he's like, I'm a shit socialist. And it's like, yeah, man, you are. Like your whole, like everyone who is beneath you, you're just ignoring and literally locking out of the room while you discuss theory, which is what a lot of Marxists do is it instead of going to like talk
Starting point is 00:37:17 to people. It's a great deep irony. And there's the thing is full of, and this is what I love about him. It's these upside down worlds that are then put in conversation with each other. And I really though, I mean, there was a moment in that scene watching it where I thought the filmmaker Ruben Ostland was doing something
Starting point is 00:37:37 very brilliant that I had not seen before. Maybe I had read it in like an ancient comedy play. It reminded me of like Aristophanes, when you're halfway through the proceedings of a comedy and then the character kind of breaks the fourth wall and grandstands directly to the audience. Right, yeah, like there's just like a philosophy segment. Yes, and there's an interesting thing here.
Starting point is 00:38:01 It's a captive audience on the boat where they're all sick and they have to listen. It's the captain. He locked himself in the cabin and he's using the PA system from the boat. And so they have to either put pillows over their ears or they have to listen to it. And similarly, the movie audience is a captive audience for this message. And it's this sort of politically radical theory-based history lesson that's delivered by a discredited narrator who's drunk and a bad captain. So by the rules of comedy, he's allowed to say anything because you don't care if he's the good guy or not.
Starting point is 00:38:38 And then I felt like he was holding the movie critics and the elite academy hostage and forcing them to listen to the scene. And it was so preachy that it's overtly preachy in the narrative, where they're actually literally just on a microphone bothering everybody with a podcast. I loved when he goes, we knew it was wrong when there were all those assassinations in the 60s. And I was like, yes, I was like an asshole. Yeah, the CIA killed MLK. I was like holding back from like vocally cheering in the movie theater because I'm like, he did it. He forced everyone in the academy to sit through this lecture about
Starting point is 00:39:20 how America killed many of its greatest leaders back in the sixties. He also mentions how like, you know how they'd install these puppet dictatorships in socialist countries in Latin America and stuff like that. And you're just like, woohoo! I also like how he's too drunk to say shit socialist, so he has to be like, I'm a shit social-ish. shit socialist. So you have to be like, I'm a shit social. And I get like having that like layered sort of thing where it's like you're forcing people who do not want to hear this to listen to it. You're basically locking everyone in the room.
Starting point is 00:39:55 And like with the Woody Harrelson character, he is like a champagne socialist and like having that sort of level too, where it's like, he clearly wants to argue with this Russian guy more than he wants to like do other stuff. Yeah, but they're having one of these very, they're making each other laugh too, which is an interesting thing. And you wonder how much of that is the actors just liking each other. And that scene is also, I mean, I guess it must be said it's like the opposite of a
Starting point is 00:40:23 Bechdel test scene where it's just two guys holding everyone hostage. But I don't mind. I'm having a great time watching it. Which is wild that like, yeah, this movie does actually pass the Bechdel test. But if there was doubt, that scene will only increase the doubt. It's such a good scene because it's like these characters are like weird tethers to each other. Yeah. And then Demetri's like, I'm the new owner of this ship and it's going down. And everyone's like, oh my God. Yeah, he's joking. But like everyone's scared. They don't know. They think maybe the ship is crashing. There's a huge storm. It's wild. It's such
Starting point is 00:40:58 a bananas scene that I enjoy very much. And again, while they're like doing their political ideology podcast over the intercom, we see in addition to all the rich people puking and shitting their guts out, we see the housekeeping crew trying to clean up the mess kind of to no avail because again, the shit water is seeping into the carpet and stuff. And then the yacht is attacked by modern day pirates via gunfire and hand grenades. The very hand grenade that the British couple who are weapons manufacturers, they're killed by their own grenade.
Starting point is 00:41:40 It's so awesome. They're like, oh, it's one of ours. Yeah. Yeah, that was a very funny line when Madame Clementine, oh darling, there's a grenade that rolls on and she goes, it's one of ours. Yeah. Cut to explosion. They die. The yacht presumably sinks because then we cut to part three called the island where a few people have made it to a nearby island that seems uninhabited. Wait, Caitlin, did you think also I was like, well, they it's
Starting point is 00:42:13 like they skipped the second half of the movie Titanic. Like they just were like a few hours later. The whole shipwreck we just we don't even do it because I, that's interesting because, you know, James Cameron would make that the entire movie and did. Well, yeah. There's many filmmakers that would be like, we gotta get eyes on all these people who've just vomited as they're slowly sinking in a shipwreck. I feel like Ruben Aslan was either like,
Starting point is 00:42:38 well, yeah, we've already seen that movie, or he's like, we don't have the budget for a shipwreck, so we're just gonna cut to. We blew everything on the vomit. It works though, I like, I remember like, for the first 10 minutes of the island sequence, the first time I saw it, I was like, all right, Woody Harrelson's gonna be back any second now,
Starting point is 00:42:57 and then you're like, oh, he's not coming back. He just implied he didn't survive the shipwreck. Well, the captain always goes down with the ship. Captain goes down with the ship. Captain goes down with the ship. So was he really a shit-socialish after all? True, he's for the people. Yeah. Okay, so survivors on the island include Yaya and Carl,
Starting point is 00:43:17 Dimitri, the coder guy, Yarmou, the cruise director, Lady Paula, Terese, the Indian Vulcan woman, as well as a character who we've never seen before, Nelson, who Demetri accuses of being one of the pirates, and Nelson is like, no, no, no, I work in the engine room. Oh, you think just because I'm black, I must be a pirate? And that keeps like getting called into question
Starting point is 00:43:44 throughout the rest of the movie and in any case that first night on the island everyone is scared and hungry and thirsty and there's animal sounds coming from the nearby jungle and Then the next morning a lifeboat with some supplies and a person inside washes ashore this person is, played by Dolly de Leon. She's one of the housekeeping crew who we've seen before. And it's like a metal lifeboat, right? Yeah, it seems pretty sturdy.
Starting point is 00:44:15 There's like a roof attached to it. It's like enclosed. It's like a little submarine over there. The others soon realize that Abigail is a great asset for the island because she's the only one who knows how to fish, who knows how to build a fire, who knows how to prepare and cook her catch. Her first catch is an octopus and she takes half of the octopus for herself. And then the rest is divided between, or I guess among the seven other people. And they're like, well, why do you get so much food, Abigail? And she's like, well, I did all of the work.
Starting point is 00:44:54 And Paula, who was Abigail's boss on the yacht is acting like that power dynamics still exists between them. Saying like, you know, you're just a toilet manager, Abigail. And Abigail's like, um, things have changed. I'm the captain now. I like that you see, I kind of forgot that there's a moment where you see Abigail like earlier when Paula is like, Oh, Abigail, give us the water, give us the chips. Like you see a moment where Abigail sort of defaults to the structure that did
Starting point is 00:45:24 exist on the boat, but she keeps hesitating being like, wait, do I have to do this? And then by the next scene, she's like, I don't have to fucking do this. And then the movie gets crazier and great. Yeah. Is it right around here that she asks them
Starting point is 00:45:37 what skills they have? Yeah. And so my favorite guy is Lathkel Burrick. She asks him and another guy, do you guys have any useful skills? And he just goes, no, no. That's his answer. So funny that someone would just say that. Do you have any survival skills? No, no, no.
Starting point is 00:45:57 Yeah, that's only Abigail. And so as the captain, she decides who gets to sleep in the lifeboat with her and like be safe from the animals lurking in the forest. So that night Abigail, Paula and Yaya sleep inside the lifeboat while the others are left to tend to the fire and keep it going so that Abigail doesn't have to put all the work into building a new fire the next day. But those people, primarily Carl and Nelson, fall asleep and the fire goes out.
Starting point is 00:46:29 And they steal pretzel sticks. They steal pretzel sticks and then lie about stealing them. And Abigail is not happy about this. And so she punishes them by not feeding them that day. But then she's like, well, Carl, because you didn't eat anything, now you can sleep in the lifeboat with me. Yeah, I also like that she starts by that Abigail starts by being like, Okay, all of the women are going to be in like the safest place. But then when that like does not, I don't know, it's like it starts with that. But then she's like, Wait a second, this actually is not working because the women inside the boat are still trying to enforce the class dynamic. So she's like, okay, well, let's switch it again. And it's just like
Starting point is 00:47:09 interesting watching her navigate, like, what is the smartest way to do this and survive and like, maintain power. She realizes she has all the power on this island and she does not hesitate to exert it. Very quickly realizes it. And so Yaya after Abigail is like, Carl come sleep with me. Yaya is like, well, she probably wants to have sex with you, but you can't do it. But sure enough, Carl and Abigail start a sexual relationship. The dynamic being, Abigail is using her power to gain access to this young, attractive man, which, you know, upsets Yaya and upsets everyone else on the island because they're like, well, we want pretzel sticks too. And she's like, no, no, I control who gets the pretzel sticks. **Matt Stauffer** Yeah, I think there's a moment where some of the uglier guys try to get the same deal. **Sylvia St. Louis** Well, because they're trying to trade their expensive watches as if that has any currency
Starting point is 00:48:09 or any value on the island. And she's like, what the fuck am I going to do with your watch right now? I don't need that shit. Then there's a brutal scene where they kill a donkey. I hate it. Which is weird foreshadowing, unfortunately, to like the last shot of the movie. True, yeah. Because they're like scared. They don't know what it is. They think it's a monster. And it turns out that it's just the donkey.
Starting point is 00:48:31 Yeah. And it just takes a really long time to die. I know. It's like, ugh. And then, I mean, I thought that was kind of funny. It's like, yeah, it's like the coder guy who's like, OK, I'm being like hyper-mass, like I'm going to kill the donkey.
Starting point is 00:48:43 And then it takes so long, and he gets so upset that he's like Weeping by the end needs to be comforted And we're like what if that was donkey from Shrek damn, you know makes you think makes you think it's one grieving Dragon, I guess it's an unnecessarily violent rewrite on Shrek. Yeah Yeah, I don't remember where it falls That's an unnecessarily violent rewrite on Shrek. Yeah. Yeah. I don't remember where it falls. Where is the scene where, I always kind of call them as Lotko, but the, Demetri, what
Starting point is 00:49:13 is the scene where Demetri- Are you referring to the moment where his dead wife washes ashore and he takes off all of her expensive jewelry? It is so darkly funny. It's one of the darkest, funniest moments I've ever seen where he's weeping and holding the pale dead body of his drowned wife and crying and caressing and then stops and takes off the very expensive necklace to keep. It's like putting on a show for himself, basically. Yeah, I think it's right around here. It may have already happened, but yeah, that takes place and it's very funny.
Starting point is 00:49:56 Then it seems like it's been a couple weeks since they've been on the island and Yaya wants to go on a hike over the mountain to see if she can find anything. And Abigail offers to go with her. There's also a quick scene where it seems like a local who lives on the island shows up trying to like sell his wares. But the only one around is Therese, who, because of her very limited speech, is not able to communicate what the situation is. So he gets freaked out and leaves. So they had a chance to be saved, but it didn't work out. So back on the hike, Yaya discovers an elevator to a resort. So it turns out there's this luxury resort that's been on this island the whole time,
Starting point is 00:50:44 and they find it And so it seems like they're saved and then the end is a bit ambiguous I will share my interpretation of events curious to hear what other people thought about it But so here's what I felt was going on. They find the elevator It seems like they'll be able to get off the island and continue on with their lives Abigail presumably not wanting to get off the island and continue on with their lives. Abigail, presumably not wanting to give up the power she has accumulated on the island, picks up a large rock intending to smash it over Yaya's head to kill her. Donkey style. What they did with the donkey moments earlier.
Starting point is 00:51:20 But before she does this, Yaya is like, by the way, I can try to help you, you know, maybe you can come and work for me, be my assistant, which makes Abigail hesitate. And we don't see her actually like smash the rock on Yaya's head or anything. But we do cut to Carl running through the forest panicking seems like he's going in the same direction we saw Abigail and Yaya go. Maybe because he heard Yaya cry for help. We're not sure. It's very ambiguous again. But I feel as though Abigail did end up killing Yaya because she was like, why would I want to be an assistant to this like rich woman when I could be captain of the island.
Starting point is 00:52:05 Right. The end. And I could just ration pretzel sticks forever. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, it looks like that's what happens. It looks like that's what happens. Or at least there was an attempt to do that in the movie ends. Yeah.
Starting point is 00:52:19 Well, let's take a quick break, and then we'll come back to discuss. break and then we'll come back to discuss. What do you mean you don't think? No! What is going on with your legs that they need washing? It's your body. You wash your body, Chelsea. Your entire body. You don't pick and choose. I have hot spots. This is a more serious... There's harassment coming from one of us to the other person. You to me.
Starting point is 00:52:58 Yeah, usually. That's true. I'm not gonna lie. And you take the abuse very well. You almost seem to enjoy it. Well, yeah. I mean, I've just grown accustomed to it. Right. Okay. That's what I wanted to say. That's what it is. Find Dear Chelsea on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Starting point is 00:53:16 Hi, I'm Marie. And I'm Sydney. And we're M.E.S.S. Well, not a mess, but on our podcast called M.E.S.S., we celebrate all things messy. But the gag is, not everything is a mess. Sometimes it's just living. Yeah, things like J.Lo on her third divorce.
Starting point is 00:53:34 Living. Girls trip to Miami. Mess. Ozempic. Messy, skinny, living. Restaurants stealing a birthday cake. Mess. Wait, what flavor was the cake, though? Okay, that's a good question. Hooking up with someone in accounting
Starting point is 00:53:47 and then getting a promotion. Living. Breaking up with your girlfriend while on Instagram Live. Living. This kind of mess. Yeah, well, you get it. Got it?
Starting point is 00:53:58 Live love, mess. Listen to Mess with Sydney Washington and Marie Faustin on iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, Beau. Hey, Matt. Can you believe we have yet another very special episode coming up?
Starting point is 00:54:15 This one is very close to my heart. We'll be joined by Friend, the star of the upcoming Wicked film, the one and only Ariana Grande, will be here in the studio with us. We hope this episode of Last Culture gives you so much joy. The episode is dropping this Wednesday, my birthday, November 6th. And of course, please go see Wicked when it comes out.
Starting point is 00:54:32 November 22nd, don't miss it. Listen to Lost Culture East us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. My name is Brandon Kyle Goodman. I'm a black, gay, non-binary author, TV writer, actor, and I'm messy. But not in the way you think. Messy as in I'm human and flawed. I'm on a mission to destroy shame around sex.
Starting point is 00:54:56 And the only way to do that is to talk about sex. So that's what we'll do on my brand new podcast, Tell Me Something Messy. Okay, let's play this messy round of smash or pass. Okay, here it is, smash or pass. Spit play. I don't know. I don't know how I feel about bodily fluids being on me unless it's...
Starting point is 00:55:14 Oh! Ah! Because we're doing the pullout message. We're living on the edge. Oh my God! I was not expecting that. Baby, like I always say, if you know how to work that body, that sexualness, and that heart, you're unstoppable.
Starting point is 00:55:34 Embrace your power. That's really what we're going to do on this show. Join me on Tell Me Something Messy with brand new episodes every Thursday on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. Hola mi gente, it's Honey German and I'm bringing you Gracias Come Again, the podcast where we dive deep into the world of Latin culture, musica, peliculas, and entertainment with some of the biggest names in the game.
Starting point is 00:56:02 If you love hearing real conversations with your favorite Latin celebrities, artists, and culture shifters, this is the podcast for you. We're talking real conversations with our Latin stars, from actors and artists to musicians and creators sharing their stories, struggles, and successes. You know it's going to be filled with cheesemate laughs and all the vibes that you love. Each week, we'll explore everything from music and pop culture to deeper topics like identity, community, and breaking down barriers in all sorts of industries.
Starting point is 00:56:29 Don't miss out on the fun, el té caliente, and life stories. Join me for Gracias Come Again, a podcast by Honey German, where we get into todo lo actual y viral. Listen to Gracias Come Again on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And we're back. Where to begin? Where to begin? What a dark film. Hilarious and ominous. And it's interesting how funny it is for how ominous and dark it is, like pessimistic about human ethics. Right. Yeah.
Starting point is 00:57:10 There's not really a great good character in the movie as far as like doing the right thing. And it definitely does sort of subscribe to like the absolute power corrupts absolutely kind of idea that like there's never a possibility that there's going to be shared wealth. But when you're with Abigail's character, you're like, well, she doesn't fucking owe them anything. Like it is cathartic seeing her treat them like shit.
Starting point is 00:57:37 One of the things I really liked about this movie, especially, I know I keep comparing it to the others, but it really did like bug me in 2022, was that like, I think a lot of movies that are like talking about class or even like trying to talk about class, present the like haves and the haves nots in a very like binary way.
Starting point is 00:57:56 And there's so many like shades of gray and like the way that this like boat is presented where you have obviously the uber wealthy, but there's shades of gray to the uber wealthy and the fact that it's like Yaya and Carl are wealthy for now, but they're also sort of living on borrowed time. And it's implied that they'll only be valuable for as long as they're beautiful. They're aware of that. Yes. Yeah. There's a shelf life. And they're not as wealthy as the people who paid their way onto the cruise because they got the cruise for free. So we can assume, you know, some influencers do make millions of dollars
Starting point is 00:58:33 and end up being wealthy, but they're not the same level of like, I've exploited people and made my wealth off of- Grenades. Grenades and landmines. So there's even a hierarchy there. And that's like part of what the first section addresses is that they're both very conscious of like this
Starting point is 00:58:54 possibly being temporary and that they'll have to like scrabble to maintain it. And then in like the middle section, you have the like mostly white service crew on the boat and they're sort of aspiring to be of a higher class and completely ignoring the lowest class on the ship where it's implied that there's no chance of moving classes.
Starting point is 00:59:19 It's mostly people of color. And I was curious what you guys think because the lowest class in the movie, we do see Abigail a number of times but we it's intentional but like we don't get to know anybody until we get to the island. We get to know a lot of people in the highest in the middle class in like the first two acts of the movie but it's not really until we get to the island that we get to know Abigail with any sort of like nuance. I saw the whole thing as a filmmaker roasting and satirizing a well off important audience.
Starting point is 00:59:52 And I think it's made for all of us to laugh at them, but it's also made for them to be like, look at you idiots. Right. I think there's a heavy metaphor, allegory you could put onto it, which is that the boat itself is like the planet that we're on. It's a microcosm.
Starting point is 01:00:11 Yes, it's a microcosm of our planet. And hey, look at you, look at you assholes, you're also mortal. Yeah. You're bound to the same cycle of life that the rest of us are. I think it's a very interesting attack on the hyper wealthy. I think that the boat itself, the yacht,
Starting point is 01:00:31 makes a fantastic story vehicle, like no better place to have a bunch of classes illustrated and the hypocrisies and the struggles of the different social classes. And also, I do think it works as an allegorical figure for the planet that we live on. The first time I thought in theaters, I was like, I wish we got to know people from the lowest class on the boat sooner. But it does feel like it's almost like Ruben Osland is very likely trying to prey on his viewers' likely trying to like prey on his viewers willingness to ignore them and then have Abigail be a really prominent character later in the movie because the
Starting point is 01:01:11 way that society trains you is to ignore people of the lowest station and I don't know yeah Caitlin what was your take on that? So the first time I saw the movie I had a slightly different reaction than I do now, which was like, is this really the story we need to be telling that this working class toilet manager, literal shit cleaner, has a very undesirable job, gets access to power because of her skills that none of these wealthy class people have. And you see her rise to power and you're like, yes, go. But then she basically installs a dictatorship on this island.
Starting point is 01:01:57 And then, and you're like, oh, to the point where she's doling out punishments to people, she's withholding resources, she is about to murder someone. Exploiting sex. Right. She's like, yeah, she's exerting her power to gain access to like sexual conquest and all this stuff. And I was like, well, I don't know if that's the message we should
Starting point is 01:02:17 be sending out that like a working class woman of color is going to be evil if given the opportunity, especially like coming from a white cis man director. But then I was like, well, I guess this is more a commentary on like meritocracy and how it's actually not great and how it's basically capitalism, because it is still it's like inherently ableist and still dependent on hierarchies and an imbalance of power because like she's like, well, I have the skills, so I deserve more. But it's like, well, also, she's fucking over all these rich people. And that is satisfying to watch. But like, it's like as a revenge story, it's very satisfying as a revenge story. Yes. So there's like all these moving parts. There's all these things. I still don't know quite what to make of the end. I have complicated feelings about it. I think at the end of the day, I appreciate it as a commentary on power corrupts those who possess it and that meritocracy is actually not a good solution as a system of government.
Starting point is 01:03:26 Right. So that's where I'm landing. I don't disagree with that. And I think that very similarly, I think it's a playful warning from within the upper class, the elite hyper wealthy. I think it's a warning from within that there is a fantastic reckoning
Starting point is 01:03:48 in come up and surround the corner. That too, right. Rich people are not afraid enough of the working class. That's the tricky part of all these movies is they're all made by rich people. So it's like always gonna be the paradox. I don't know. Yeah, Kayla, I hear what you're saying. And also realistically, if you're Reuben Osland,
Starting point is 01:04:08 you're like, well, who's going to see this movie? Who's this movie going to get to? Probably mostly middle-class, upper middle-class and rich people. So like, I definitely understand the criticisms of it. I like it more every time I watch it though. Maybe I just haven't read enough Marx. And by that that I mean
Starting point is 01:04:25 any. It's like force majeure for me. Well one of my favorite moments of the movie is you see the Dimitri character spouting all these Reagan quotes and talking about how awesome capitalism is. Reagan v Marx. And then the second the tables have turned and he is no longer in a position of wealth and power and he is at the mercy of someone else's power, he says the, you know, from each according to ability to each according to need. And that's like he would have grown up under that and would have remembered it, of course. Right. That's like the part of the movie that I feel like it there's like no doubt that it's done
Starting point is 01:05:04 super well. That's like the part of the movie that I feel like there's like no doubt that it's done super well. It's like watching the rich people squirm and have their ideology adjust in real time to like the rich people become like, well, no, we should do socialism now that we have nothing to contribute. Now that it would benefit us. Exactly. Right. Because like on one hand, it's commentary about like the undervaluing of labor, especially what is considered to be quote unquote, low skill labor. But it's that type of labor, which only Abigail knows how to do, which allows them to survive because she's feeding them and like, the currency now is food, but also beauty.
Starting point is 01:05:45 And that's something that the director discussed as being like the primary theme he was interested in exploring this movie. He wanted to talk about beauty as currency, which is why there's so much focus on the like model couple at the beginning and how you can use beauty if you have it as a means for upward mobility. Because that's how this couple ends up on this cruise that they probably wouldn't have been otherwise able to afford. Even in the post-apocalyptic tables turned world. Right. It's like still currency.
Starting point is 01:06:22 Right. Because we have this situation where Abigail, now that she is this dictator, she uses her power to gain sexual favors from the most attractive man on the island. And it's something that we see men in power do all the time. And so we get this kind of gender role reversal here Doesn't make it any better. It still makes it disgusting to you know, exploit your power for any Kind of gain and exploitation, but it's just really interesting to see play out And I like that part of the function of that first part is that it's not like the the hot people are presented as like infallible like they're it's also clear that what their power is is potentially temporary and like how I mean, whatever I guess like the substance is the
Starting point is 01:07:18 most recent movie that illustrates that point of like, if you are in a position where your value is connected to how traditionally beautiful you're perceived to be, then things are always going to change. And like that conversation towards the beginning with Yaya and Carl and Yaya being like, well, what if I got pregnant? Like, what would happen then if my value shifted in the public eye? How would that affect me and what would I do? And I mean, obviously she doesn't get pregnant, but you see her value shift, you see his value shift as the movie goes on. Mm-hmm. There's a line from Yaya toward the end
Starting point is 01:07:56 where she and Abigail are on the hike. And she's like, I'm so impressed by what you've done here, Abigail. You've managed to run a fucking matriarchy here, and you've domesticated all the old alpha males. And on the surface, like a very surface level, yeah, that's true. It's a, you know, a woman is the leader of this group.
Starting point is 01:08:16 She has these other women like helping her and defending her because there's that scene where shortly after she has declared herself the captain, and Carl is protesting, and he's pointing at her, and he's using this aggressive body language, and he's just like, well, I don't see how this is fair. And his girlfriend, Yaya, turns on him as defending Abigail, being like, don't have that aggressive posture. You're lying, and you're stealing, and da-da-da.
Starting point is 01:08:42 So, like, on the surface, it seems like, yes, it's this group of women led by a woman who has taken charge. And again, like on a very surface level, that's satisfying to see, especially as like a woman of color rising through the ranks by circumstance to become the leader of these formerly rich people. But again, it's still, if you like peel away the layers of the Shrekian onion. Whoa. Yeah. Again, she's the leader only because she feels entitled to these things and it's complicated.
Starting point is 01:09:24 Yeah. to these things and it's complicated. Yeah, I mean, it's part of why I feel like Yaya is like such a tricky character to talk about because I guess, yeah, I'd about to be like, this Swedish guy had something interesting to say about intersectional feminism, but hear me out. I do think Ruben Ausland is trying to say so many things and address so many dynamics in this movie
Starting point is 01:09:45 that it's not humanly possible really for all of them to come together in a cohesive way. They don't necessarily have to, it's just like there's so much. But I do think it's interesting with Yaya where, Abigail originally, I think she appeals to the women and the women, one of whom especially, like Paula, was originally condescending to her and only kind of joins as a subordinate because
Starting point is 01:10:10 it's a way to survive, not because it's actually a showing of mutual respect. We know that Paula doesn't respect Abigail. And so it's like interesting watching the like subclass dynamic between women because I feel like sometimes it's just suggested that everyone of one gender will all come together to overthrow, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And it's like a nice idea, but there are sub-dynamics, obviously, and you have three women from three different classes. And so, of course, it doesn't, you know, that line from Yaya at the end sort of rings hollow. And then once there's like the promise of the natural,
Starting point is 01:10:45 quote unquote, order being restored, Yaya immediately becomes kind of condescending to Abigail again and is like, you should work for me. When 10 minutes ago, Yaya worked for her. Right. I mean, I think, and this is something we talk about a lot, but the tendency to assume that everyone in a particular group is a monolith, that, oh, women will show solidarity for other women, or all women
Starting point is 01:11:14 of color will handle things the same way because of their experience. And we see time and time again that that is not true. Women of all classes or whatever. Exactly, take any classification of people. There's so many examples. To the contrary of that, and I think this movie shows an interesting example of that with the Abigail character and her behavior.
Starting point is 01:11:40 But I don't know. I'm just like, was this guy the right person to make that claim? I'm not sure, this guy being the writer director. I don't know. I think there's a pessimism at the heart of the movie, which is reflected in the title, Triangle of Sadness. And I think, you know, you could look at it like three acts that are tied together where it's sort of like
Starting point is 01:12:03 a cycle that keeps happening. Or you could look at it as a comedic mirror of suffering that people keep repeating a pattern of the same suffering upon each other in these groups, in these class groups. And that there's injustice and a reaction to it that's also imbalanced. And then it goes back to a status quo and then it repeats and repeats and repeats. Basically it looks to me like we're locked in a triangle of sadness. Wow.
Starting point is 01:12:36 Like as much as possible he's showing a mirror of like, well, this is how it is. Even people who are trying to make it better are making it worse. Right. Yeah. This is like Ruben Osslyn kind of presenting his worldview kind of, because it doesn't, I mean the movie isn't going to give us like clean answers because Ruben Osslyn does not have the solution to society. I don't know. I feel like this movie presents a lot of questions. It doesn't really hit answers, but that makes sense. I kind of like the ending for that reason where would it be cathartic, I guess, to see Abigail land the rock on Yaya's head, even if you like
Starting point is 01:13:17 Yaya a little bit? Sure. But it makes sense that Abigail is, because it's still a tragic ending on a long enough timeline, even if Abigail does do that. She's buying time, but their system is not sustainable. Abigail cannot sustain this group of people forever. Eventually, they're going to have to go to the resort, or eventually someone's going to find the resort. And we know that because someone from the resort or eventually someone's gonna find the resort because we and we know that because someone from the resort has already found them so Abigail could be by killing someone you
Starting point is 01:13:50 know buying herself a couple of hours right and so like it is this brutal cycle it's not like there's a happy ending even by like Abigail's definition and she seems to possibly know that. Right. Yeah. I mean like flash forward to a few hours after the movie ends, it's like, okay, they have been discovered. She's arrested for murder. Abigail is for the murder of Yaya. And she's even worse off than when she started as an incarcerated person. So, it's such an interesting movie. I love all the queries it poses. Like a good comedy, it raises more questions than it answers. Yeah.
Starting point is 01:14:37 I mean, it is something to be talked about or to inspire a conversation about large issues. I don't think that they're I'm kind of relieved that there's not like a companion manifesto of like, how should we solve this triangle of sadness? As I was rewatching it, I was like, oh, that was like part of what was irritating about the other things in the genre, whereas it's like, there is some sort of like clean conclusion to it, that it feels like this is this director's version of solving class inequality.
Starting point is 01:15:12 And you're like, okay. Like, you know, it just always kind of doesn't really work. But. Yeah, it looks like the message is, it's gonna be really messy and ugly if you wanna solve it. Yeah, yeah. All right.
Starting point is 01:15:25 I wanted to just mention Therese really quick, because we get to know her the smallest bit. I mean, I think the characters we get to know least who survive are Nelson and Therese. And they're kind of paired off together at different points, where it seems like they kind of forge a friendship. I think it's interesting that we learn about Therese. We don't really learn about Nelson other than the fact that he works in the engine room
Starting point is 01:15:50 or worked in the engine room of the ship that blew up. But there is like one character sort of development about Therese where it's like a humanizing moment for her because we don't really know anything about her other than that she's rich and that she has this disability and that we learned that she's used sex to get a job before, but it's this very, I don't know, I thought of a weirdly sweet moment between the two of them where she's like, yeah, I liked it.
Starting point is 01:16:19 They're goofing around about it. Yeah, I liked that moment, but otherwise, it feels like it does sort of go into this very, like you're saying, James, like this really dark worldview that Reuben Osland has where it's like her disability means that the able-bodied characters frequently forget about her. And that she is is treated inherently differently
Starting point is 01:16:45 by the other characters. And we don't really get much more than that. I mean, I would be curious to hear what disabled people thought of that character, but yeah, I mean, it felt like an acknowledgement that when these able-bodied characters were put into an extreme situation, they sort of treat Therese as a second class citizen.
Starting point is 01:17:06 I mean, that's what happens in a meritocracy, right? Right. Yeah, it just means that the two characters of the survivors who we learn the least about are a Black character and a disabled character. And those optics aren't great. I don't know, I just like have other stray thoughts about the movie. Like the rich people's idea of what generosity is because you have things like at the beginning
Starting point is 01:17:38 Yaya saying, I'm a very generous person. Ask any of my friends. I gave you that shirt. I took you to dinner. And then Carl retorts with like, well, you got this shirt for free. And I was the one who ended up paying for dinner. So those are bad examples. So you have like Yaya's inflated sense of self in thinking she's so generous when actually she's probably not generous at all. You have Yarmou telling Yaya and Ludmilla, who we don't see very much in the movie, but
Starting point is 01:18:08 it's Dimitri's younger trophy girlfriend. He tells the two of them, oh, you're so generous for taking a picture with me. I'm going to buy you both Rolexes. And he thinks they're generous because they paid attention to him, a billionaire. And so his idea of generosity is so skewed. You have the whole thing with Vera being like, oh, life is so unfair to you working class people. We're all equal. And that's why I'm forcing you to go down a water slide. Literally dance monkey dance. Literally.
Starting point is 01:18:48 Thinking that she's doing a good thing when everyone is clearly very uncomfortable. And then there's the character Alicia, who she makes sit in the hot tub in her like Leonardo DiCaprio moment. Wow, it's true. Fully clothed in water. But it's just laughable. And again, just like astute commentary on rich people's idea of generosity is and how skewed it is.
Starting point is 01:19:14 Similarly, the things that the rich people try to offer to Abigail once they're on the island, we touched on this already, but like the rich men trying to like give her their watches or saying, oh, as soon as we get off the island, I'll make your life easy and comfortable knowing that like, they'll probably forget about Abigail immediately. Yaya being like, come and work for me as my assistant and be at my beck and call. Right. The second that there's a chance for her to get out. Yeah. So I enjoyed those bits of commentary. I thought they were very effective. The Alicia moment reminded me of,
Starting point is 01:19:50 I don't know if I've talked about it on the show before, my first job out of college was working at this bakery where we were called Guest Huggers. Oh, I remember you talking about this. That weird coercion moment where you are a middle-class worker. I mean that's like who I most closely identify with on the boat. I was like serving their coffee, making their lattes, giving them biscuits or whatever.
Starting point is 01:20:13 But any guest could come in and make you hug them. And that was like a part of the job where it could just be some fucking creep, which it always was. No person who's normal is like, hey, 21 year old girl, give me a hug. But you did have to do it. And that is what that scene felt like to me is having to hug a stinky rich person in the financial district at 530 am. But just to like talk a little bit about the Yaya Carl dynamic, it's so hard to talk about because, I mean, and that's part of why I feel like the movie is so well written.
Starting point is 01:20:52 But I don't know, there's moments with, like, you're not allying with the hyper wealthy women, but also you can feel that they are being used for their looks. There is like an exchange taking place there. The conversation between Carl and Yaya is so infuriating because he is being an asshole, but he also does have a point. And the thing that is like weird to me, like at the end of that scene, Yaya comes back and apologizes to him, which again, you're
Starting point is 01:21:27 like, well, maybe, but he was like being a real asshole to like, they were just both being assholes for sure. And she admits to like manipulating him. She's like, I don't even realize I'm doing it, but I know that I am. I do hate the Carl character. And then Carl is just like, thank you for saying that. He doesn't admit any fault. She apologizes to him for being manipulative, which is true.
Starting point is 01:21:51 And then he's like, thank you so much for saying that. But he doesn't apologize for being cruel, for blah, blah, blah, like anything like that. I feel like it's fun to see that early in the movie, as early in the movie, you see the movie you see that the two quote-unquote it's an ensemble film but the two main characters of the through line of the movie are in a toxic relationship that looks beautiful and perfect from the outside to everyone else. And in other scenes they maintain it they act like they're very lucky very perfect people. For sure. There conversation in part one where
Starting point is 01:22:28 Carl is presenting, he's like, why don't you want feminism? Why don't you want equality between us? I just want us to be equals and I feel used. But that's only when he's getting something. Right. Yeah. Also, okay, so I've just speaking from personal experience here, this conversation, like it touches on something that I've been thinking about a lot lately, where in the context of heterosexual dating, which I tragically engage in, and in the context of like paying for things on dates, I used to be very like, I'm a strong independent woman. I don't need a man paying for me for things. Let's split the bill or, you know, da da da.
Starting point is 01:23:13 I was like pro distributing wealth in a relationship or whatever, or in a dating context. And now I'm like, men owe me money. Like every man I've ever dated, every man who's ever been inside me, owes me money, and I don't want to pay for anything, and they should pay for everything. As long as, like, gender-based income disparity exists,
Starting point is 01:23:37 as long as we're living under the patriarchy, men owe me money. And that is my brave statement. Thank you so much. Incredible. Yeah, that scene is so hard, right? Cause I like, thankfully, or maybe I'm just not hot enough, cannot relate to that exact dynamic between people.
Starting point is 01:23:55 But it is tricky when it's like, you know, I've been in relationships where like, I am the financially dominant person. And in a hetero couple, it is fucking weird. And you're like, it is a strange thing to navigate. There's not at least, you know, like, certainly not how I grew up, there is no precedent for it. It was either equal or because of how payment structures worked. Like, even if both couples worked, the dad made more money. And it is interesting watching these two fail to have a productive conversation about that, I guess.
Starting point is 01:24:33 Because I think points were made. Also the fact that like they just acknowledge, yeah, I don't know, I also hate Carl. So I'm like, just pay for dinner, you fucking loser. So I guess I'm sort of with you there. To me, it just looks like two manipulative people who are locked into two cobras that are stalking each other. It looks like two toxic narcissists
Starting point is 01:24:56 who've settled into an awful, terrible orbit around each other. Yeah. Well, yeah, because on the Yaya end of things, the dynamics switch every time there's a power shift. The things between them flip-flop like several times in the movie, where originally he also, the another thing that just I find so irritating
Starting point is 01:25:16 about this character that kind of comes all the way around is at the beginning where he's like, I'm gonna make you fall in love with me, where she's clearly like, this is a casual thing for me. I am not like in this for life. And he at the end of this like act one conversation is like, I'm gonna make you fall in love. I'm gonna do it.
Starting point is 01:25:35 And she's like, all right, we'll see. Okay, good luck. And she even says she's like, I'm in this to eventually become someone's trophy wife, because I know that that's kind of like my only option. Because she doesn't want to do like, you know, working class labor. She admits to that.
Starting point is 01:25:50 Yeah, it's like, I think she, at the beginning of the movie, she's coming from a very pragmatic place and he's coming from an emotional place. And then at some point it switches. I mean, the part of this, the scene where like Carl is the most despicable, I feel like is that moment when they're on the boat and she talks to a crew member
Starting point is 01:26:09 and he's like, why the fuck are you talking to a crew member? And then goes and like, narks to Paula and is like, did you know that there's a sexy shirtless crew member out there? You should probably fire him. And then tries to buy like a wedding ring that she would not have accepted.
Starting point is 01:26:25 And that he can't afford it seems like because when she tells him the price he like recoils in horror. I guess I would argue she's a little better but not by much because later on when they're on the island Yaya all of a sudden acts as if she's had an emotional attachment to him all the time when the power switches again and he's the one in the submarine with Abigail, and she's the one left out in the cold. She's like, but wait, I love you. And I'm like, well, no, you don't. I mean, it just speaks to the toxicity of their relationship where they both feel ownership over the other person. Where he's like, don't talk to that sexy crew member, I own you. And then she's like, don't go sleep with Abigail, I own you. I do think it's, again, this gender reversal thing where Yaya is instructing Carl how to
Starting point is 01:27:18 behave to get something you want from a rich person. She's had to do it with rich men. And now she's like, okay, here's what you do. You stroke her ego, you laugh at her jokes, but don't do anything sexual, set boundaries. That's so funny that she knows that from experience. I never thought of that. Yeah. Of course she does.
Starting point is 01:27:38 Because she's kind of doing that with Yorma when they're like, come over here, have a drink with us, take a picture with us. And then he's like, do you want Rolexes? And they're like, teehee, okay. Yes. I want God's champagne or like whatever fucking billion dollar bottle he orders. Like, just, yeah. There's like some sort of power dynamic and like really subtle power dynamics I feel like we're not usually used to seeing, and they're all still so funny. I don't know how he did it.
Starting point is 01:28:08 Yeah. I think a great way to watch this movie is to watch parts one and two, and then pause, and then watch tape two of Titanic, VHS tape number two, which is the shipwreck and the sinking and everything. You feel like you're missing anything in this shipwreck that's all addressed in Titanic part two.
Starting point is 01:28:29 Yeah, just map. Carl is Jack Dawson, Yaya is Rose. Just map some of the characters onto each other. And then as soon as the ship sinks, now you watch part three of Triangle of Sadness. Where a crew member takes over Titanic Island. Yeah. Titanic Island. Yeah, where the guy from the engine room,
Starting point is 01:28:54 the one who's like, shut all the dampers. He's now king of the island. He's the captain. Does anyone have any other thoughts about the movie? Triangle of sadness, truly a triangle of laughter. Wow, what the hell? They go hand in hand. It's really an interesting thing about human storytelling
Starting point is 01:29:16 that something so funny can be so sad and vice versa. And I just, I really loved it. I really loved it. There is some fantastic artistry in being able to force people to laugh like that in a room that you're not in with a stable hand, knowing that you're in, you know, it's like a great masterful comedy that we used to do in America.
Starting point is 01:29:42 Indeed. It's so good. The movie does pass the Bechdel test. It does. Not a ton, but it does pass. Yeah. Yeah. You have conversations between Abigail and Paula. You have conversations between Abigail and Yaya. I think most of the passes are on the island, but then you have like the crew member, Alicia, talking to Vera and Vera being like, get in the hot tub and go down the water slide and Abigail being like, um, no. Yeah, that whole thing passes.
Starting point is 01:30:15 I mean, yes. So there are a number of conversations that do pass the Bechtel test. Interesting. Imagine that. As far as our scale, though, the famous, the infamous Bechtel cast nipple scale, where we rate the movie zero to five nipples based on examining it through an intersectional feminist lens, I mean, this is tricky. Because I think this movie says so many interesting things about class
Starting point is 01:30:46 and income disparity and undervaluing labor and meritocracy and all of this stuff. I want to give it like a 3.5 or so. And again, it is cathartic, even if it's a very kind of surface level thing just to watch a woman of color who had been undervalued probably her entire life, and especially while working for wealthy white people to suddenly become the leader of a group because she has skills that no one else has and that everyone else has undervalued. I feel things that complicate that a bit, but I still very much enjoy watching it from a surface level. And yeah, I think I want to give it like three and a half nipples.
Starting point is 01:31:38 I'll give one to Dolly De Leon. I'll give one to Char B. Dean, RIP. I will give one to Captain Woody Harrelson, reading his Communist Manifesto as a weird podcast that has an audience of, I don't know, 40 people. And I'll give my half nipple to that poor donkey who perishes. RIP to him. RIP to the donkey. I'm tempted to go four. I don't know. It's like there's a lot of criticisms of this movie. And I do think that like one of the tricky things that Ruben Osland can't really control is that this movie does seem to be
Starting point is 01:32:27 directed at a wealthier audience to Self-reflect or at least a middle-class audience, but there's so many like subclass dynamics that are really funny and really specific that I just like haven't seen done very much. And I think just especially, I'm almost grading it on a scale because there are just so many shitty class commentary movies
Starting point is 01:32:51 out at the same time. And this one is both thoughtful and doesn't pretend it has a solution to any of it, which I at least appreciate because obviously one random guy doesn't have the answer. But it's fun to watch him not have the answer and I really like this movie. So I'm going to go one nipple for Adale De Leon, one nipple for Traobedean, one nipple for I guess Nelson? Because I just wish we'd gotten to hang out with that character a little more. And I'll give my last nipple to the movie,
Starting point is 01:33:28 Force Majeure, which I will get around to. We'll watch it, we'll cover it someday, maybe. It's true. I don't know. James, how about you? Well, I feel bad I did not know that Charles B. Dean had passed away around the time the movie came out, I guess.
Starting point is 01:33:44 Right after it or something. I just learned it from you and that's very sad because I would have loved to see more from her. I give the, what is it, on a scale of five? Yeah. Nipples? Yeah. Nipples, that's correct, yes.
Starting point is 01:33:59 Okay, so I'm- I'm sorry, do you have questions about that? I have lots of questions, I don't know how it works. For me, this is't know how it works. For me, this is a five nipple flick. Nice. I didn't actually intend that. I didn't even think of that before I said it. But there's a five nipple achievement.
Starting point is 01:34:16 One right after the other, right after the other, yeah. I think to raise the issues matters way more than to solve them in a two hour movie. And to do that while being so funny is like an almost impossible high wire act. Movies that say as much important things are very rarely this funny. And so I think that's what makes it something
Starting point is 01:34:42 that I would, I give it my highest compliment, which is I think that it should be preserved for future centuries to see what our time was like. Comedy and satire are such a wonderful vehicle for class commentary for commentary on many, if not all things. So, yeah, I love how funny it is. And there's nothing more exhausting than watching it not work. So it's really nice that this one does.
Starting point is 01:35:09 Well, James, thank you so much for joining us. Yeah. This was a very fun discussion about a movie that I liked reliving the movie again with you both. Thank you. Oh my gosh. Thank you. Come back anytime. And where can people follow you on social media? Plug your special, plug anything. Yeah, the special is Path of Most Resistance. It's on 800 Pound Gorilla.
Starting point is 01:35:31 It's on YouTube. You can watch it for free on YouTube. You can pay for it on 800poundgorillamedia.com. All the information's on my website, jamesodomian.com. I have a link tree also. There's a mailing list, which I'm trying to start using. I never have before. And I've been posting a lot on Instagram
Starting point is 01:35:53 in the last several months, which I have way more than I have before. So it's at jayadomian. And then it's the same handle on threads and blueskiesjayadomian.beeskye.social. And on YouTube, my personal YouTube channel is JamesAdomianXOXO. And the special lives on the 800 lb. gorilla YouTube channel as well. Got it. Cool.
Starting point is 01:36:17 It's so fucking good. Congratulations. Thank you. I had a lot of fun doing it. And I'm glad that it seems to have held up at least one year since I taped it. Absolutely. You can follow us mostly on Instagram at Bechtelcast as well as subscribing to our Patreon aka Matreon where for five dollars a month you get access to... very good right? for $5 a month you get access to two bonus episodes every month including the entire back catalog of somewhere around 160 or so bonus episodes so scoot over there become a matron you won't regret it. Hell yeah you can get merch over at teapublic.com slash The Bechdel Cast and with that let's toss a rock on someone's head and return to the island. Yay! Wee! Bye!
Starting point is 01:37:19 The Bechdel Cast is a production of iHeart, hosted by Caitlin Durante and Jamie Loftus, produced by Sophie Lichterman, edited by Mo Laborde. Our theme song was composed by Mike Kaplan with vocals by Catherine Voskrasensky. Our logo and merch is designed by Jamie Loftus and a special thanks to Aristotle Acevedo. For more information about the podcast, please visit linktree.bechtelcast. Chelsea Handler here on Dear Chelsea.
Starting point is 01:37:47 I am joined by my longtime illegitimate baby named Kevin Hart. We talk about his birth, we talk about his afterbirth, we talk about his childhood, his adolescence, and that's pretty much where he is right now. What do you mean you don't think? No. What is going on with your legs that they need washing? It's your body. You wash your body, Chelsea.
Starting point is 01:38:04 Your entire body. You don't pick and choose. It's your body. You wash your body, Chelsea, your entire body. You don't pick and choose. I have hot spots. There's harassment coming from one of us to the other person. You to me. Yeah, usually, that's true. I'm not going to lie.
Starting point is 01:38:15 And you take the abuse very well. You almost seem to enjoy it. Well, yeah, I mean, I've just grown accustomed to it. Right, okay. That's what I wanted to say. That's what it is. Find Dear Chelsea on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Marie. And I'm Sydney.
Starting point is 01:38:34 And we're... Mess. Well, not a mess, but on our podcast called Mess, we celebrate all things messy. But the gag is, not everything is a mess. Sometimes it's just living. Yeah, things like JLo on her third divorce. Living! Girls' trip to Miami.
Starting point is 01:38:51 Mess. Breaking up with your girlfriend while on Instagram Live. Living! Living! This kind of mess. Yeah. Well, you get it. Got it?
Starting point is 01:39:01 Live, love, mess. Listen to Mess with Sydney Washington and Marie Faustin on iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, Beau. Hey, Matt. Can you believe we have yet another very special episode coming up? This one is very close to my heart.
Starting point is 01:39:20 We'll be joined by Friend, the star of the upcoming Wicked film, the one and only Ariana Grande We'll be here in the studio with us We hope this episode of lost coach gives you so much joy the episode is dropping this Wednesday my birthday November 6 and of course, please go see wicked when it comes out number 22nd Don't miss it listen to lost culture East us on the I heart radio app Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcasts My name is Brandon Kyle Goodman.
Starting point is 01:39:45 I'm a black, gay, non-binary author, TV writer, actor, and I'm messy. But not in the way you think. Messy as in I'm human and flawed. I'm on a mission to destroy shame around sex. And the only way to do that is to talk about sex. So that's what we'll do on my brand new podcast, Tell Me Something Messy. Join me on Tell Me Something Messy with brand new episodes every Thursday on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts.
Starting point is 01:40:17 Hey friends, I'm Jessica Kapschoff. And this is Camilla Luddington. And we have a new podcast, Call It What It Is. You may know us from Graceland Memorial, but did you know that we are actually besties in real life? And as all besties do, we navigate the highs and lows of life together. Big or small, we're there. And now here we are, opening up the friendship circle to you. Listen to Call It What It Is on the iHeartRadio app,
Starting point is 01:40:46 Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

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