The Bechdel Cast - Twilight with JT Taylor

Episode Date: August 10, 2017

About three things we are absolutely positive. First, we talk about Twilight with our guest JT Taylor. Second, there are many parts of the movie that are very bad to women. Third, we say "irrevocably" a lot.(This episode contains spoilers)Follow @jtinthecloud on Twitter! While you're there, you should also follow @BechdelCast, @caitlindurante and @hamburgerphone     Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Daphne Caruana Galizia was a Maltese investigative journalist who on October 16th 2017 was assassinated. Crooks Everywhere unearthed the plot to murder a one-woman WikiLeaks. She exposed the culture of crime and corruption that were turning her beloved country into a mafia state. Listen to Crooks Everywhere on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, you're just starting your career. That's where we come in. Think of us as your work besties you can turn to for advice. And if we don't know the answer, we bring in people who do, like negotiation expert Maury Tahiripour. If you start thinking about negotiations as just a conversation, then I think it sort of eases us a little bit. Listen to Let's Talk Offline on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, everybody. This is Matt Rogers. And Bowen Yang. We've got some exciting news for you.

You know we're always bringing you the best guests, right? Well, this week we're taking it to the next level. The one, the only, Katherine Hahn is joining us on Lost Culture East. That's right. The queen of comedy herself. Get ready for a conversation that's as hilarious as it is insightful. Tune in for all the laughs, the stories,

and of course, the culture. Don't miss Katherine Hahn on Las Culturistas. Listen to Las Culturistas on Will Ferrell's Big Money Players Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. On the Bechdelcast, the questions asked if movies have women in them. Are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands or do they have individualism? The patriarchy's effin' vast, start changing it with the Bechdel cast. Hello and welcome to the Bechdel cast. My name is Caitlin. My name is Jamie.

And we're here to talk about movies and how women are portrayed in those movies. Women rule! Women rule! Not according to movies, though. No. Women rule. Women rule. Not according to movies, though. No. Women suck. And that's especially true of the movie we're talking about today. Oh, we've got a humdinger today.

Man, I'm sorry if this episode ends up being like two and a half hours long, because I have many pages of notes. I've got a lot, yeah. There's a lot to say. I watched this movie once drunk, once sober. And tried to figure out what I was saying in the drunk notes. We'll see if I can piece it apart. I watched probably the first 15 minutes of it on Netflix. And then I was like, oh, this movie blows. And then I happened to have the riff tracks version of it. So I watched the rest of that.

And it was a much more enjoyable way to watch it. Yes. But hey, let's jump in and introduce our guest. Let's do it. He is an educator, but his most impressive credit is that he is the best friend of a one Caitlin Durante. It's JT Taylor. Hey guys, thanks for having me. Welcome. Thanks for being here, my friend. Yeah, thanks. That was a good introduction. I teach the youth of America about commas and quotation marks and commas inside of quotation marks. What would you say is the most important piece of punctuation?

Puberty. What? Okay, amazing. It's usually where we start the school year in my English class. Puberty. And by the end, they're shaving. It's great. In class and everything? Full service.

That's amazing. That's how we do it in Massachusetts. I miss shaving at school. You're in junior high and you're like, let's sneak into the bathroom and shave each other. Me and my friends just shaving, shaving away. Yeah. Well, this podcast is inspired by the Bechdel test. Right.

Do you know what that is? Maybe, maybe not. If you don't, we're here to tell you that it's a test that you apply to movies or whatever. Anything that has a story. The test requires that the story has two female characters. They have to talk to each other they have to have names and their conversation can't be about a man i would honestly be fascinated if this is the first episode someone would choose to listen to because it speaks more to their movie taste than anything else they're like oh this is going to be my jumping off point for feminism. Hey, JT. Yes.

Tell us about your history. Oh, we're talking about Twilight. We're talking about Twilight. Oh, I'm here for Moana. Oh, no. You've misprepared. We already gave it five. I watched the wrong film.

So I'm an educator. That means I teach kids. And during my first interview, I knew this is the job. This is my dream job because the summer reading included Twilight. No. I said, what time do I start? Who in their right mind? For what age?

With Massachusetts, it was a high school book for the high school reading list. It's not there anymore. Right. No. So wait, what year would this have been? 2008. So that was when I was in high school. That's crazy.

Yeah. Weird. Do you want to transfer? Yeah, I want to go back in time my mom loved these books and she bought the box set and was like you've got to read them she'd later do the same thing with 50 shades but i passed i was like your cum is on these books this is gross well i first encountered twilight by going to visit my friend JT. Hi. Oh, I didn't know you introduced Caitlin to it. Yeah.

That's my fault. That's my beef. It was before I lived in Boston, and I think I went to visit you, and you were like, hey, we got to watch this movie Twilight. We watched it, and it was bad, and you really, at the time, liked those movies. I loved it. I spoke. We got into fights about these movies because you were wrong and i was right no because i have been right all along that they've always

been terrible and now you're just coming consistently believe that they're terrible i've consistently been a detractor but i was on board for you know it was like this sort of like oh twist my arm i guess i'll go because all my friends are going. But I think it's stupid that I would always go. I mean, same. In IMAX. I've seen, I think I saw the last three movies in the theater. Oh, me too. Midnight.

Wow. I only saw the first one in theaters. Oh, God. And then I read the first book and a half and was like, holy shit. The prose in these books is garbage. Amazing. Astounding. And I couldn't keep going also i've

been a long time team jacob oh i agree i agree i'm very wrong no okay team jacob is the right team oh man thank you so much i agree also worth mentioning that our producer, Aristotle, used to be a big Twilight head. Really? Wait, what team are you on? How's Edward? You're, oh, boo. Thank you, Aristotle. Thank you for being here.

It's good that we have a split room. This is going to be good for discourse. I don't understand. Well, okay, we'll get to Edward. I just, too moody. Give me, give me Jacob. He's got, he's a red blooded American horny wolf, and I'm into it. They have good banter.

They have an actual friendship. It doesn't start with like, I'm going to just look at you for a long time. Although that's how my high school boyfriend... He ensnared you just by staring at you for a while? Yeah, there was one time where someone was like, oh, Steven stared at you for the whole math test. And I was like, all right, I'll date him. He was really good at math, so he finished early.

And then he was just like... It worked. We dated for four years. Wow. Romantic. Nope. Nope. Listen, it was great at the time, okay? I was young. I was a baby gay. Moana hadn't come out yet, so I didn't really know who I was.

It just spoke to me, and I don't regret that. Books or movies first for you? The movie. It was the trailer, really, for New Moon when the vampire government is introduced. The whole tour-y? That is epic. Is that right? That's correct.

I was books first. Okay. I was still, you know, really knee deep into Harry Potter at the time. Give me a break. I'm over Harry Potter. Thank you. Okay. All right. That episode already came out.

I am irrevocably over Harry Potter. Who didn't learn the word irrevocably from this? We just looked up the definition this morning. Like 10 minutes before you got here i remember reading this these books i think it's the second book but there's like a part where edward disappears and then bella just does nothing for like three months yeah that's toward the beginning of new moon it's perfection and there's a couple just there's a couple just like blank pages. And I remember seeing that and being like, oh, you can just do nothing for three months? This is such an interesting idea. Yeah, it's a post 9-11 society.

I was like straight up turned on by the idea of doing nothing for three months. And so I was like, well, thank you, Stephanie Meyer, for just, you know, making this an option for young women doing nothing for three months because they're like, Maybelline friend. Should I do the recap? All right. So Twilight centers around a young Bella Swan. Don't forget, there's no way to convey that a character is attractive unless you name her Bella, which means beauty, and then also give her the last name of a sexy bird, as we saw in the Pirates of the Caribbean episode with Elizabeth Swan. I think you're projecting. I think that there are other... Swans are actually very dirty and mean.

Are they? Have you ever met a swan? I don't know why I'm asking you that. As someone who's met a lot of swans. Actually, I've met several swans and can confirm that they are the sexiest of all the birds. Swans have only been very mean to me. There's this place in Brockton called DW Fields Park, and you would go i mean maybe they're because they were city swans

they were very rude you'd bring little scraps and they were loud they were territorial they would shit everywhere beautiful swan it's it's a myth okay well not according to black swan not according to the swan princess there's a lot of misconceptions about swans that I would like to spend the rest of my life fixing. And over-representation, obviously. There is a lot. Too much. What about those other birds? How about pigeons? They have the worst reputation.

But are they the worst birds? We don't know because we haven't seen enough stories about pigeons. They're about as dirty as swans. All birds are dirty and kind of scary. I think you're not wrong. Sorry to trigger all you bird lovers out there i expect some strongly worded emails so we've got bella swan she moves to forks washington where there's never sun you know she's in a new high school and she's trying

to make new friends but she's so clumsy and awkward that it's hard except everyone immediately loves her including a person named edward cullen he's mysterious he's pale he emotionally abuses her from minute one but he's intriguing because turns out wow he's a vampire so they start to fall in love she's like i'm irrevocably in love with you irrevocably at one point they're playing baseball the baseball scene is bananas i loved it well this scene it shouldn't be significant but it is because this group of bad vampires show up who have been killing the townspeople and eating them for food the sniffy ones i like i like the one named james who's always sniffing the air. Yeah. I like him. And they show up because Bella starts hanging out with the Cullen family, which is this family of vampires that have just all been turned by Carlisle. They're all foster children, but they're also all fucking each other. Interesting precedent to set.

Yes. So they're all playing baseball together. And the bad vampires show up because the thing with the Cullens is that they don't eat people even though they want to. They're vegetarians. They're vegetarians. So they only eat animals. Makes sense. So the bad vampires who do eat people come by this guy James, this lady Victoria and what's the other one's name?

Laurent. Laurent. And they're like, I smell a human. I'm going to eat her. And James, the lead bad vampire sniffy sniffy sniffy magoo decides that he's gonna turn bella into a project and he's gonna chase her that's exactly right like he's gonna fix her right he's gonna fix her by uh drinking all of her blood right and for fun so everyone freaks out and they're like we gotta get away from here so He's going to fix her. Fix her by drinking all of her blood. Right.

For fun. So everyone freaks out and they're like, we got to get away from here. So they drive to Phoenix. Road trip. Bella thinks. Escape from Snape. 2008. Wait, is this about Fury Road?

Can we do Fury Road? Oh my God. It's been done. I would rather do this than Fury Road, honestly. I like this movie better. Oh my God, no. I'm having a stroke. Throwback Jamie hates Mad Max. I hate Mad Max Fury Road, honestly. I like this movie better. Oh my God, no. I'm having a stroke. Throwback Jamie hates Mad Max.

I hate Mad Max Fury Road. Give me any Twilight movie over it. I have to go. I can't be here anymore. Robert Pattinson, handsome. Tom Hardy, handsomer. Let's call him Rob. Tom Hardy, boring. No.

His character is boring because he doesn't say anything. Taylor Lautner, handsome. Okay. Yes, Team Jacob, but... Kiss me on the lips. I like that he wears a wig. I love that he wears a wig. his character is boring because he doesn't say anything Taylor Lautner handsome yes team Jacob but kiss me on the lips I like that he wears a wig I love that he wears a wig there's like a lot of especially later

in the series a lot of Jacob objectification but speculation on his abs he's wearing wigs he's like Nicole Kidman he's like look at my body look at my wig it's great that wig was huge on gay twitter really? yeah yeah wait Nicole Kidman's wig or Jacob Black's oh okay He's like, look at my body. Look at my wig. It's great. That wig was huge on gay Twitter. Really?

Yeah, yeah. Wait, Nicole Kidman's wig? Jacob Black's. Oh, okay. Okay. I was going to say, because I was really into, I feel like I've brought up this exact wig before. The one that she wears in Big Little Lies. Nicole Kidman's wig in Big Little Lies is something I think about at least once a week. So they're in Phoenix now, and James is like, I'm

going to eat you, Bella. And she's like, okay, I'm going to die in the place of someone I love. And she's okay with it. And she's fine with it. It's the opening line from the movie. Right. And just so there's no mistake made, you see

a deer being consumed as if to say like don't worry we have no problem selling out our protagonist in the place of someone hot yeah yeah this is a movie that starts with a female deer being hunted by a male hunter and that's a perfect metaphor for how i grew up in pennsylvania did you get hunting season days off at school? We did, but I didn't go. I stayed home and played video games like a normal person. I didn't know that was a thing. I didn't have to go to school on the first day of

like, there just was no school on the first day of buck season and doe season. Who decides what the first day of buck season, and it's different? Buck season and doe season are two different seasons. Yes, it's the Volturi that decides, actually. This is new information to me that's crazy yeah grow up in uh rural pennsylvania and then you won't have to go to school when

there's hunting to be done okay but so she's like i'm gonna die for edward because i irrevocably love him and then of course he has to show up and they fight James because James has bitten Bella. All the vampire venom is coursing through her veins. And she's like, ugh. And it's like, so she's like lying there on the floor nearly dying. And then they kill James the vampire by Alice ripping his head off. And then Edward, who has expressed this entire time that he wants to suck Bella's blood more than any human's blood. He has to suck the venom out of her bloodstream.

And he's like, oh, God, am I going to be able to stop in time? I'm raw dogging it. What do I do? That's basically what the metaphor is. He's like, I don't know if I'm going to be able to not cum. Exactly. Yeah, he's raw dogging it. Hot. More raw dogging it. Hot.

More raw dogging in movies, please. Edward the Raw Dog Cone. So the portrayal of women in Twilight. You went your turn, man. They're raw dogging it. You only speak when you're spoken to. Well, the first time Bella has sex, she raw dogs it, right? And then she gets pregnant with a little demon.

They should maybe consider protection. But he's so strong that his vampire cum is impervious to condoms. Was that the thing? He's like, oh, I have battery acid cum and there's no use in stopping me. And then he just high fives his brothers. Yeah, he's like, oh, guys, this is so sick. All my other sniffies. Can we just, okay, can we skip forward to the end of the fourth book really quick before we finish

summarizing the first movie? Please. Of how all this stuff happens. There's a love triangle forever. And then it turns out that Jacob the werewolf was actually lusting after Bella's unborn egg baby. Yeah, this is it. That is so fucking gross it is horrifying because we see them form a

friendship here that i'm like this seems like puppy love seems like there's something there but he's actually like horny for her egg puppy he's horny for her egg what is it renez may or whatever fucking stupid ass name yep that'sie. Yep, that's exactly it. Nessie, ugh, grow up. I remember having to stop reading the book and going back and being like, surely this is not the implication. Well, because the whole thing is that someone imprints on the werewolves. I think she's still a very young child

that he sees her for the first time. To be fair, Edward is 90 years older than Bella. So they're actually closer in age. What is this, colonial England? Like, this is so fucking dark. Yeah, he, like, sees this baby. Well, he sees a baby, and he's like, I'm gonna fuck that baby someday.

Exactly. That's what he thinks. That's exactly what happens, and it is disgusting. And one of many reasons I fucking hate this series. That, to me, is the worst part of the whole series. I have a high tolerance for garbage and trash. But the dog man seeing a baby and saying i'm gonna fuck that baby and then in the book being like

and here's the resolution thing you've been waiting for years is the dog wants to fuck a baby like no makes sense now that is that you're like oh closure like no call the police right just backtracking a bit to the end of the first one the good vampires the cullens they show up they destroy james meanwhile edward is sucking all of the blood out of bella cut to the end of the movie whereby she's done nothing to resolve anything and they go to prom. The end. They do. That look though,

because I was in high school when this movie came out, I remember specifically, so this came out like late 2008 and then the prom season after, so 2009, everyone was doing the Bella Swan thing

with a prom dress and converses. That was like a thing for the next couple of years. I'm in support of wearing practical, comfortable shoes in a formal occasion. That's fine. But what's gross is being inspired

by Twilight to do anything. But that totally was what it... Yeah. Everyone was like, I'm doing the Bella Swan. I'm wearing a cute dress. I'm awkward. I can't dance.

Also, I'm awkward. I can't dance. Also, I'm awkward. I can't. Wasn't she also wearing a cast because a vampire had broken her leg? Yes. Yes, she was. Which might have informed the shoe decision. Yeah. But it went over.

All the high school girls were like, oh, this seems easier, which is true. Yeah. Well, where do we jump in with this movie? Hard to say. We could start it. Charlie's Tom Selleck mustache. Yeah. Let's go there.

Let's go there first. Are we into it? I'm into it. I'm into it. Honestly. Hot dad. I'm team Charlie. Yeah.

Hot dad. He's doing his best and he's hot. Okay. One of the first things that happens, which I was grossed out by, is Bella arriving at the new school. All the boys are like, who's the new girl? She's so pretty. And oh, my God.

And then one of the characters, Tyler, swoops in for a kiss, just like surprise. Yeah. And then runs away. But this is now like, I don't know, the 10th movie that we've talked about on this podcast where a man just like surprise kisses a woman which don't forget it there's no such thing as a surprise kiss right it's all it's assault and uh i just don't know why this always happens the first thing that bothered me about the movie is that they use the word chillax and you're like oh yeah it's 2008 someone's like chillax bella i was like oh no feature yeah i'm just lamping over here.

It's because she has a moderate amount of anxiety about being interviewed as the new kid for the school newspaper. Which would never happen. Right. And he immediately backpedals. He's like, relax, woman. Chillax. Chillax. I'm so sorry.

Chillax. I'm just trying to lamp over here. Do you remember when people would be like, I'm just lamping. I have no idea what that means. Oh, people would say that in my high school. They'd be like, oh, fuck. I'm trying to think of all this because this was my heyday. It's bringing you back.

Yeah, this was the best years of my life. Just kidding. I was wearing a back brace for these years. But people would be like, oh, we're Lampin' on the east side. For some reason, there was a time where you could say Lamp. And that just meant to hang out? Yeah, like chillaxing, if you will. Oh, okay, good.

But like Lampin'. Yeah, Bella's first steps into Forks, really, really interesting. A lot of people talk to her about the weather. Yeah. Tyler throws a Twizzler at her and then his van. He does throw a van at her. And then Edward throws it back. He's like, no, sir, not on my watch.

I protect her. I gotta save her. She's mine. I watch her when she sleeps. You're just like, ah! How romantic! Okay, yeah, so I made a list of all the ways in which he

is extremely abusive There's a scene where he straight up gaslights her whenever he saves her from the van crashing into her because he has to speed across the parking lot to get to her in time. And because he's a vampire, he can do that.

He's lightning fast. In the hospital, she's like, how did you get over to me? How did you do that? And like, also, how do you stop a van with your arm? And he's like. All reasonable questions. Right. He's like, I was already right beside you.

And she's like, no, you were across the parking lot. She keeps saying, I know what I saw. I know what i saw i know yeah oh that was like scary to watch knowing what gaslighting is now you're just like oh my god like and it being presented as like a funny little plot point of like it's not time for her to know but i'm like no this is like a textbook example of something that happens in abusive you're just like what yeah he literally says bella you hit your head you're confused yeah that's like sample text yeah that's crazy question her reality and making her think she's crazy and then she can here's the thing she does stand up for herself in this movie a lot things happen to her and she's like she really tries she tries

but it's always undermined by the fact that she then just keeps staying with this very abusive person. Like, there's a scene where those, like, scary rapey dudes in Port Angeles, Washington, come after her. The Port of Angels. They're, like, being all creepy, and she's like, get off, don't touch me. She, like, even kicks one of them like she does fight for herself she stands up for herself but it never lasts long or she always succumbs to whatever abuse is being tossed her way or very often just being removed from one abusive situation and placed into a different one right where like obviously the guy is harassing her in port angeles that is bad news I think if we're playing out that situation realistically, she would not have been able to rescue herself.

We don't know that she has any like physical training that would allow her to fight off multiple grown men. I mean, if there's like a bit of ice, she slips on it. Yeah, she can't. She has no hand-eye coordination. She's awkward. She's awkward, but she knows about classical composers. She can't play volleyball no she's like i'm i hate that but he has a crush on me i'm cute i bought hair color in a box and

i'm awkward okay so this is a a hard thing to discuss because many women find themselves in abusive relationships and we must not victim blame them at all because we can just be like well why didn't you get out or why didn't you fight back or why didn't you stand up for yourself? Like, that's obviously not how you approach that. Well, what I think is the dangerous precedent set is that we can't we're not going to blame Bella because she is 16 years old. Who male or female at 16 years old is like emotionally equipped to deal with gaslighting vampires especially when he's 90 years older than her and right that's the gross thing where he is somehow attracted he's like a hundred year old man and that's like you know takes you into a

weird fiction world of like what's he gonna do fuck a corpse but like we don't know we don't know but speaking to like the abusive relationship angle i think that the the real problem with it is that obviously the target of these movies are girls that age and the way their relationship like i think the characters is one thing because it's so fucking fictional that you know obviously we can't really make value judgments on those characters but because 16 year old girls are the intended audience and the relationship between bella and edward is positioned as an ideal right and like taking abuse and standing up for yourself but later saying i was wrong to do that is positioned as true love and an ideal. I think that that's the real core of the issue

is that they're just justifying young women accepting abuse from a man. Fuck the characters. None of the characters make any fucking sense. Well, that's the problem. These characters, they're not real, right? They aren't vampires. Right.

I mean, I've been to Forks. I've looked. But someone, whether it's the author, the screenwriterwriter decided to portray american culture in forks washington as this is the norm this is what young women should aspire to be should aspire to do right and then bella kind of i mean not to bring up harry potter because i'll pass out um out of rage to be clear but be But Bella, like, kind of the same as Harry Potter. You know, Bella's the central character, and she has the least personality out of everybody,

which is kind of done intentionally so that the intended audience plugs themselves into that character. So it's, like, not like teenage boys are watching this or, you know, at least not to the same degree, but, like, teenage boys are watching this, and they're like i totally relate with edward cullen right but teenage girls almost universally if shoe choices at my junior prom are to be believed related with bella and wanted to model themselves after her yeah you make a very good point about how the story positions this as true love and if your relationship is like this then oh how romantic what a like a romance for the ages which i guess people fell for that because this is a worldwide phenomenon but i mean that moms fell for that which is even more insidious your mom did my mom

but like but moms yeah we're into this series and that is just like, woof, this goes back. Well, this came out or this was like kind of the height of its popularity right after college for me, I think. And I had people my age, like in their early 20s. And then I remember talking to my friend and her older sister who was like late 20s. They were just all enamored with this story. And I never understood it because I have exquisite taste. And self-respect. Back to the point of her being continually abused throughout this story by Edward and standing up for herself, but then also, no.

Yeah, she completely acknowledges her. The quote, so the lion fell in love with the lamb. What a stupid lamb. Sick, masochistic lion. Right, and then they're like, let's kiss. Yeah, and there's a romantic song. Right. The music swells.

Well, this goes back a little bit, but Bella's relationship with her mom is very weird. Where I don't remember if it's expressed that she's a little bit frustrated or resentful of her mom in very weird where i don't remember if she's like if it's expressed that she's like a little bit frustrated or resentful of her mom in the book but in the movie her mom is like yeah i married a minor league baseball player and i'm just gonna go watch a fuck ton of minor league baseball baseball again see ya yeah baseball motif but but we see her call her mom multiple times and she's like i miss you mom i love you mom i was just like are you not but then the mom follows up with what about the boys are the boys cute at your new school hey many new boys yeah yeah and then she says i don't know

i'm awkward and then she's like okay gotta watch some baseball see you later she's always at practice yeah she's always at like a batting cage on a payphone i'm like what are you doing like why is she not why is bella not furious at her mom of like thanks for dumping me in washington with my tom selleck dad who like rules but also if my mom just abandoned me in the middle of high school because she was fucking a minor league baseball player i would be furious yeah well in one of the many conversations that edward overhears or you know tries to very voyeuristically spy on he's like what's in jacksonville what's what's your story tell me everything about it i can't figure you out i just can't read you tell me everything and she's like well my mom stayed home with me but i

could tell it made her unhappy. Like, in what world? But it doesn't make sense. I'd rather be watching minor league baseball than stay home with you, my teenage daughter. I feel like the typical teenager would use that to be like, martyr the shit out of it, right? Be like, I did this for my mom and I deserve some attention because look at what I'm doing. Look at the sacrifices I'm making. And that's not the story. No, it's like barely a plot point there's like her mom pops up I don't even know because it's not even like her

mom ever provides new information or bell and Bella doesn't really tell her anything it's just like two actors getting their sag card they're in a batting cage somewhere in Arizona and and and then one time the scene is interrupted by the fact that Edward has been in her room for hours. Right. So he doesn't have to know how to read her mind if he's just watching her and listening to all the words she says at all times. Okay, so that's one of many very problematic things

is that she's the only person whose thoughts he cannot read because I guess as a vampire you also have special powers in addition to... Yeah. Fuck that. Stupid thing. But he can read minds. Yeah. But for whatever reason we find out later that Bella also has superpowers.

Everyone has special powers. You just need to become a vampire to figure it out. Right. You have an acceptance. It's the voice inside you. It is, yeah. So he can't read her thoughts. And I think this is part of what draws him to her because he's like, I have to figure you out.

You're my new project. Everyone wants to make Bella a project. Well, it's fair to say that the new girl in school in a small town, she's new, she's different, I can't read her thoughts. That is interesting, right? But it's the crux of his interest in her. That, and he becomes so grossly obsessed with it. Too far, yeah. Like, he goes way

too far with it. Chillax. In fact, there's this scene where he... Chillax, dude. Chillax. We're lamping. There's this scene where they go into the woods, and she's figured out that he's a vampire he confirms it they go up this mountain and at one point he like pins her against a rock wall puts both of his arms up so she's basically trapped and he's like i have to know what you're thinking tell me what you're thinking all the time and it's so what a gross crazy weird way to try to

control someone like he just he can't read her thoughts so he's like i need to know what you're thinking i must control you right but if we put that in the context of a teenage girl who's never had a relationship before it's like oh here's a boy who really cares what I think. Again, it's like this very dangerous precedent to set where teenage boys are fucking morons, obviously, and don't understand how to function around anyone. Yeah, I agree. Yeah, right. I'm the expert. I'm an educator.

I educate those fucking dumb kids. About commas and puberty. But it's like, you know, that's a very appealing, I know when I was 16, I was like, oh, a boy who like really wants to know my innermost thoughts? Wow.

I'll let him pin me to a rock. And it's like, you know, 10 years later, obviously, you're like, don't touch me and stay away from me. But it's so fucking insidious and a bummer. This is right after, or right before he admits.

He's like, I've killed people. It's like right after. She's like, so what? It doesn't matter to me. I'm not afraid of you. I'm like, okay, that's on you. We've all got our demons. That scene is so crazy.

Like that whole sequence. And then he. And then it's in the big reveal. Wait, which one? That scene where after they've admitted everything they've talked about what it means

to be a vampire he takes her through the cloud break and we finally see the true Edward oh his sparkle skin it's a metaphor yeah

oh yeah where he that is such a weird reveal because if you don't know that that is the exact reveal that's coming in the books it's like what is he doing

and he walks and it and it isn't like a dazzling like shing which is how I that's coming in the books, it's like, what is he doing? And he walks out. It's roving. And it isn't like a dazzling like shing, which is how I pictured it. There was a sound effect though. There was. When the sun hits my skin, dazzle. I was expecting,

listen, not to criticize this amazing movie, I was expecting a bigger reveal that he was sparkly. If I had not known and had been waiting with bated breath for that to happen i would have been like what is it oh he's got a little body glitter he goes to claire's and he puts on his body glitter do you remember body glitter that was fun i bought did you ever buy body glitter oh yeah i bought this like tube of victoria's Secret body glitter that I never wore. I don't know why. I was like, I'm not a sparkly person. That's not something I would ever put on my body. Why did I buy this?

And then I ended up throwing it away. We lived together in college, and I actually saw it and used it once. It's like a true story. Oh, my God. I'm glad someone used it. You've got to use the body glitter. It usually smells good, too. Five stars. Reviewing posthumously. It usually smells good, too. Five stars.

Reviewing posthumously. Irrevocably. Irrevocably. That's my favorite adverb. So we're not blaming Bella. At the center of the story, like, Edward's medium baggage is he hasn't figured out what it means to be a vampire, right? He knows what, like, popular culture tells him about being this mean, evil vampire. But he's not like the others.

He's not like the other vampires. It's so hard. And he just, he uses Bella to figure it out. He's like figuring out his morality and he's using this young 17-year-old to do it. He's ruining her. Right.

The other thing I wanted to, well, fuck. I have a list of 8,000 things I want to say. But one of them is that it's so fucking creepy and weird to me and should be to everybody that he is, so we learn that it's so fucking creepy and weird to me and should be to everybody

that he is so we learned that he's turned into a vampire in 1918 hot which means he was probably born in 1900 he's a trench warfare vampire and he has gone through high school presumably dozens of times but he well yeah because we see that all the i actually always remember i'm like that's actually a really cool art piece in your house and then i saw it this time i'm like you know what i stand by it i like all the caps i like the caps i like it too i would put it in my very fancy all glass home right don't throw any rocks around that house the vampire house yeah so okay we don't know how vampires and their like mental and emotional maturity happens maybe when they turn into a vampire it stops or maybe as they age they

developmentally age like humans so that he's a 90 year old man inside but he's he stays in like a 17 year old body either way that sounds horrible it's weird that he's alive for 90 years and you would think has the emotional maturity of a 90 year old and then is still attracted to a teenage girl you're raising your hand yes jamie what would you like i would like to draw a parallel okay have you seen or read tuck everlasting no that is the immortal good text to text connection thank you so much an educator's approval means the world um no but the tuck everlasting is the closest and not to insult because i like tuck everlasting much better but the tuck everlasting book is way more fucked up because it's like an 100 year old

hot 17 year old and he's like lusting after a 10 year old kind of like jacob renez may style if you will but in the movie they age it up so that it's someone who was on the disney channel lusting after rory gilmore so a little bit older but it's interesting because the way that that story plays out is sort of a similar like it's a family who's drank from the fountain of youth. And the whole time they discourage the object of his affection, who is 90 years too young for him, but looks age appropriate. They discourage her from drinking from the fountain of youth and she doesn't. And then at the end of the story, we see a still young, hot Jesse something. I forget his last name drives up on his motorcycle and then he sees you know the grave of rory gilmore so in that story it's you know it's more powerful because because she goes

off and she lives her life and she does not succumb to intense gaslighting from the object of her affection and it's also like said that you's also said that living forever may not be a great thing after all. And all that stuff. So anyways, that's the closest parallel to this story that I can find. And there's not any gaslighting in that because they're always like, don't do it.

And then she doesn't. So maybe it's just a more boring story. Yeah, I don't think Edward's that strong. He would never be able to control himself. He's a raw dog. He can't control himself. His own personal brand of heroin. Heroin.

Just for all my Tuck Everlasting heads out there, it's Jonathan Jackson. Oh, yeah. Who played the hot guy in Tuck Everlasting. They also go to the top of a mountain to discuss eternal life in that movie. Common trope storytelling if you're living forever and you're an innocent teenage ingenue you're gonna have to go to the

top of a natural formation to hash it out that's a new movie rule oh man too bad we already have the loftus test the loftus has hold strongest woman in charge. Doesn't apply to this movie. I don't think. No. I'd say the baldest woman in this movie is Alice. And she's the, I would say she's the best female character because she kills someone. Yeah, she rips that dude's head off. That was cool.

I loved that part. She's also so kind. Yeah, she's a real hot topic assistant manager. That Alice. Yeah. Hey, really quick are we to believe that bella was also wearing sleeves and jeans in phoenix the whole time because we see her at the beginning like i live in phoenix arizona it's hot and then we see her in like two layers of sleeves and jeans

because she's awkward right you she can't show her shoulders she's too no she's too awkward she would she'd melt but i'm just like how did you live in phoenix for your whole life with your chode of a mother i don't understand your well that's why she gets kicked out remember that hilarious joke that everyone like cracks the fuck up over yeah the scene where the fucking mike chode who's like, oh my God, you're Isabella, right? And she's like, just Bella. That's the closest to a real high school student that we see, I think, though. Yeah, like he's a Chode in a way that it's like,

oh, I would know a Chode like that. Anna Kendrick plays a high schooler in this movie. Well, she's like, or someone says in that scene, you're from Arizona, aren't you supposed to be like super tan? And then Bella is like, I'm not like the other girls. I guess that's why they kicked me out. And they both. is in that scene you're from arizona aren't you supposed to be like super tan and then bella i'm not like the other girls i guess that's why they kicked me out and they both ha ha ha ha ha we have d-cups but we're not cool like grow up if you have d-cups in high school you're fucking cool deal with it let's talk about all the things that happen in the science room where when bella first walks in by the way the science teacher's

name is mr melina i know but would have been a perfect opportunity well you continue to talk about science i'll figure out what alfred melina was i'll figure out what he was doing instead i'm sure the part was offered to him because that that could have been... Homage. Here's what he might have been doing. He might have been filming The Ten Commandments playing Ramsey as the Pharaoh. Obviously. He might have been providing the voice of Professor Jeffries in Chill Out, Scooby-Doo. Wait, Chillax, though? Not Chillax.

Is that what they meant? He might have been in pre-production to be the narrator in Angels and Demons in 2009. He was probably filming the Pink Panther, too. Probably. He's busy all the time. All right. So she walks into the science room. There's a fan blowing.

A gust of her scent travels to Edward's nostrils. He borderline pukes and then she sits down beside him and he has a hissy fit the whole time and then as soon as the bell rings he storms out yep and okay to be fair she's like i was gonna confront him to figure out what his problem was like she wanted to know what the fuck his problem was i'm not that brave uh she doesn't get a chance. Well, she kind of does get a chance to do it. Yeah, she does. Because the next time they're in the science room together, they're looking at the onion slides

on the microscope, which is a fun scene. Good Shrek reference. Onions have layers. We know it. We love it. Where's the Shrek episode? Right? Where is it? It's coming. But that's a fun scene because she looks into the microscope and she's like it's prophase and edward's like actually can

i look at it just to double check your work because i don't believe you more gaslighting and then he looks into it and then he's like it's prophase it's also mansplaining it's unfair because he's been 17 for 90 years so he's done this experiment for probably 50 times showing off somehow. Yeah. It's like, yeah, I've, I've got this. I've got this. She, so he mansplains to her, but then to her credit, she says, yeah, like I said, the thing is like Bella, God, I feel like Bella has the agency of an above average teenage

girl, but she's shot down by the narrative repeatedly until she is just trapped. Like when I was 16, there's no way I would challenge anything on anyone at any time because I was wearing a back brace and I was afraid of everyone. Like, can you imagine confronting a cute boy at 16? Like that takes fucking guts, Especially if you're new somewhere. Like I feel like she's displaying above average, like I'm going to figure this out. And then Stephanie Meyer, the fucking evil puppet master is like,

how can we destroy this young girl's agency? She's like, what happened in the parking lot? I know what I saw. And then Edward's like, no one will believe you. Literally no one will believe you. Literally, no one will believe you. But it's romantic.

But it's romantic. But they're in love. It's romantic gaslighting. Hey, wait a minute, though. Bella, since she knows all about prophase and anaphase and all that stuff, I would call her a woman in STEM. She is a woman who has heard of STEM. Yeah, that's a better way to say it. She's not fully a woman yet.

She is a child. And that's part of the problem true and then oh but in that scene in that prophase anaphase scene we see edward effectively defeat bella too because at the end of that scene she stops checking his work like the last beat of that he's like do you want to check she's like i'm good no and then she's like, do you want to check? She's like, I'm good. No. And then she's like, I trust you. I was like, he's a million. He knows the difference between prophase. I mean, which is better than I can say. You haven't taken chemistry 90 times. They're smarter than me.

And now I'm insecure. I made a list of different times that Edward nags or gaslights her and the time codes, because it happens so frequently. 20 minutes in, he saves her from the car crash. 24 minutes, he gaslights her saying, I was right next to you. No one's going to believe what you say. Can't you just thank me and get over it?

Fuck off. 30 minutes. If you were smart, you'd stay away from me. What if I'm not the hero? What if I'm the bad guy? 50 minutes. If you were smart, you'd stay away from me. What if I'm not the hero? What if I'm the bad guy? 50 minutes. He says, Bella, what do we eat? A.K.A. you.

She says, you won't hurt me. At this point, she is fully gaslighted. Her agency is dead for the remainder of the series. Well, she's irrevocably in love with him. 53 minutes in. I've never wanted a human's blood so much in my life bella says i trust you edward says don't don't get out of there what are you doing oh i still don't know if i can control myself bella says i know you can she's kind of gaslighting

him but she's 16 there's oh god it's the same disturbing interaction over and over 70 minutes in bella i'm not scared of you edward you shouldn't have said that and then he kidnaps her with the spider monkey line with the spider monkey line and then oh god and then 75 minutes in bella has a scene that doesn't pass the vectaldel test in a very infuriating way with her mom, who's waiting to fuck her chode husband after he gets out of the batting cages. And then he comes out, you know, he comes out of the shadows and she's like, oh, you were here? And he's like, yeah, I've been watching you sleep for months. And that's when I stopped counting the times he was gaslighting her because it happens so much.

And this movie is very long well that's an interesting scene because the first time you see bella wake up and he's stalking her in her bedroom and then she turns yeah she's like that was the first night i dreamt of edward cullen so it's played off it's like okay we as the audience think okay maybe that was a dream and then when you see that scene again and he admits to sneaking into her room and watching her sleep for months. You're like, oh, that wasn't a dream. And then she's like, all right, time to hook up. Kiss me.

Honestly, though, this, I almost get it. There was another, when I was very young, there was another vampire book series called Cirque du Freak. You guys remember this? No. I'm not familiar with that as an educator. This is a sexy vampire B-side about a vampire named, I think his name was Darren.

Sexy name. Thank you. I wrote the book. But Darren was the object of my affection. I was like a little bit younger. I was like maybe 12 or 13 and didn't know how my vagina informed my thoughts yet sure so i was reading the cirque de freaks books and it's about this like young boy who's turned into a vampire

by a circus owner and goes on the road with these freaks and he's a road vampire he's a road vampire like a road comic but i feel like he really informed my current lifestyle sure he road tests his vampires but in any case i had a huge crush on him and in that book series there was a point where he had a crush on a girl and he would just like hide around her in various places and so i had like these weird cabinets i grew up in a house with no doors and and instead of closets we had these weird cabinets built into the walls. And so I would imagine that Darren, the vampire, would hide in the cabinets. You wanted him to hide.

I wanted him to hide. So when I see Edward emerge from behind a curtain, I'm like, I get it. I wanted Darren in my cabinets. It's a common vampire practice to hide and wait for your prey. Right, right. For kissing. Only when you love them, though.

Only when you're in love. Get in my cabinet. It's a metaphor. How about that scene where Edward's like, everything about me draws you in. I'm so handsome and attractive, and my voice and my scent is so... Get over yourself.

And then he's like, as if I needed it. As if I couldn't outrun you. He's like dashing from tree to tree. Yeah, he's shouting. As if you could fight me off. And then she's like, I don't care. I trust you. I trust you.

Oh, here's another fun moment where it's the scene where he's like, what's in Jacksonville? Because he had been leering at her and listening. Sorry, I just watched you pour a lot of water out of your mouth. I'm having trouble. I'm having trouble. I didn't eat for the first time until two minutes before this, and then I had a Mike's heart. So I think that I'm physically compromised.

Okay, so Bella's talking to her chode friend Mike about going to Jacksonville. And meanwhile, Edward is standing in the background, listening to everything she's saying and just leering at her the next scene edward's like what's in jacksonville and then she trips a little bit and he goes she's awkward can you at least watch where you're walking and that exact tone yeah like for the first half of the movie, he's so mean to her. Well, and that also enforces an age-old thing that my mom told me was true. And that I feel like every parent, and maybe still do, like they enforce this dangerous, like, if a boy's mean to you, that means he likes you. You know, like if someone's being repeatedly aggressive and rude to you. And it's usually like

with younger kids but they're like if they if they're being mean to you it means they like it and it's usually boys towards girls right except unless you're hell of a tacky and then you fuck if you're hell of a tacky you're fine well sure and yeah like negging is a common flirtation technique however it's usually like let's say she trips a little bit. A flirtatious way. Loser. Yeah. Well, he'd be like, oh, jeez.

That was too much. That was too much. He'd be like, oh, jeez, at least watch where you're walking. Tee hee hee. But he like yells at her. Watch where you're walking. Don't yell. That's a good rule of thumb.

Don't yell at the object of your affection. Again, what's at the center of this is the fact that Edward cannot deal with the fact that he's a vampire. He wants to be a good person, but he has this label, this identity. He doesn't know what to do with it, right? But he's not true to that. About 45 minutes into the movie, everything switches, and all of a sudden he's like, all right, let's date. Let's do this. I know that I'm a bad guy, but I want to put you next to this bad guy that I am.

Yeah. Yeah. You know, like that Apple scene, right, where he says, he's just trying to like. Do you think that's symbolism for something? I couldn't tell. He's just trying to get information out of her. And she says, you know, your mood swings are kind of giving me whiplash. Like he completely acknowledges that he is just so back and forth.

And then as soon as they start dating, he develops a personality all of a sudden. And he's like, I'm going to jump on your truck. And she's like, can you at least pretend to be human? I have neighbors. Funny. Good funny moments. This is flirty and fun. I like the scene where they try to kiss,

and he's like, I'd fuck you too hard. No, the sexual aspect of their relationship is so problematic. It gets worse and worse where he's like, if I fucked you, you'd die. I'm super strong so I could kill you. I want to bite you all the time. That's what every man has told me. If I fucked you, you'd pass away. But yeah, that's no good.

But the scene where they do hook up and they can i will say for me the sparks were flying oh there's something there i was like that was a good like story aside a good movie kiss it's hot that's a hot kiss but then you know but then you remember the horrible story that's taking place the aftermath of that is really disturbing to me because they kiss and it's hot. They go from vertical to horizontal really fast. And you're like, oh, it's getting sexy. And then he's like, stop it!

And he throws himself off of her. And then she's sort of in her bed, in a very vulnerable, she's in her underwear, she's kind of hunched over and she's just like... She's awkward. It's clear that she feels ashamed because she's like i'm sorry he said he told her to stop it yeah yeah and then or i don't like is it him telling himself to stop it or is it telling her to stop hard to say but

she's like i'm sorry and she's put in this position where like she then feels shame for like trying to be sexual and it made me feel weird not to come to the rescue of edward collin but at least he made his needs known in the moment and stopped a situation he was not prepared to enter is it a metaphor for abstinence what's what's going on there there's definitely some sort of abstinence thing because they wait for marriage in the series don't they yes they. They sure do. Let me see if I remember right. JT, you'll know.

Caitlin, you'll know. You guys will both know. Is she a vampire before he can fuck her? I think he fucks her while she's still mortal. Yeah, on the night that they get to the island. Right. Island Esme. There's like restraints involved, isn't there?

There's like something. Well, she wakes up the next morning and she's black and blue. He like got really aggressive. They like break the bed as they're fucking. And then the maid comes in in the morning and is like, what the fuck? Yeah, call the police. They're on an island. Something disturbing has happened here.

I vaguely remember that. And by the time I read it, I knew it was not okay. I'm glad that we, at least the first movie, there's at least a little bit of wiggle room where there's at least some parts of the movie that might be construed as relatable for someone if they were a teenager or a young adult in 2008. As the books go on, you're just like, this just spirals out and it gets fucking weird. Yeah. After she wakes up black and blue on Isle Esme during the honeymoon. Is that really what it's called? Yes.

After his mother. And then his adopted vampire mother who's younger than he is. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Fuck. Uh-huh. He's so upset with himself for hurting her so badly that the rest of the honeymoon they just, like, play chess. They, like, aren't allowed to touch. But that when she's a vampire they can they have sex all

the time the first month they like move into a house just for fucking yeah because it's so loud just like the baseball scene but different fuck house are you serious i'm very serious i don't know if this happens in the movie but it definitely happens in the book they fuck so loud they need a house they the cullens have a house on site that's like a mile away. No one can be within a mile of them because they fuck so loud. That sounds tight. But the road we take to get to

the isolated fuck house is dark. Alright, so some alternatives. I kind of wish that this movie was more about Bella and her gay best friend Jacob. How would the movie have been different if that was the A story? You know, Edward's just like the B, the background.

Like, who cares about the vampire? Well, Jacob's barely in this movie. Unfortunately. I know. I forgot how little he was because I was really like looking forward to looking at Taylor Lautner's wig. Yeah. I forgot how little he was in it. He's in that great scene where Bella's like, what did your friend mean about the Cullens don't come here? And he's like, oh, you heard that line of dialogue that was very audible

and that everyone was like, hmm? Everyone and all of her friends just stare for a second like, what did he say? He's like, oh, you caught that? Yeah, every fucking person caught that. Or another weird scene. I mean, all the scenes between Bella and Jacob are, first of all, less weird than any scene between bella and edward more dynamic than any scene between bella and edward but also there's always like a weird uncanny valley quality to it where it's towards the end where jacob shows up walks out of the woods or something and he's like my

dad sent me to spy on you he's like he paid20 to talk to you. And then she's just like, you better go get that $20. I was like, this is extremely suspect. He's also vaguely dressed up for prom. He's wearing like a nice button-up shirt. But he doesn't go in, right? He did. No, he goes to a different school. Yeah, he doesn't go to that school.

He's on the reservation. Well, then he's really earning that $20. He's like, I got to lick the part. He went shopping before he came. How far does $20 go in Forks, Washington? Jeez. In 2008? In 2008. So far. He's like, I gotta lick the part. He went shopping before he came. How far does $20 go in Forks, Washington? Jeez. In 2008?

In 2008, yeah. So far. He lived for years. It was a different time. Well, he's like, my dad wants me to tell you to break up and stay away

from your boyfriend. And then Edward shows up and he's like, get out of here. I'll take it from here. And just another way that he controls here. He takes back into the woods.

Doesn't let her talk to any other men. He's just always... Oh, let's talk about the scene where... Does Edward know about... I forget. Does Edward know about the werewolves? Yes, but Jacob doesn't know yet.

He's just like, I'm just wearing a wig. He hasn't had puberty yet. Well, he knows. I think he knows that he's descended from the wolf clan. I think he knows his... He thinks it's a story, though. Right, yeah, he does. Because there's that scene on the beach where he basically says yeah it's just a weird washington thing you're just like okay sure yeah but all like his

elders turn into wolves like wouldn't he know about that because act one remember all of his friends all of his like uh reservation friends are like going off and being weird and getting sick and he's like i don't know why i'm all alone. I haven't hit puberty yet. All my friends, I want to get sick like my friends. They all get mono and disappear and then come back and forth. I didn't realize it was maintained as a secret until you start going, what a horrible way to conduct.

Yeah. Hey, a crazy thing's gonna happen to you but you can't know about it until it's actually happening to you. I don't respect that. That's how i got my period no one told you you were gonna get your period i didn't really know what it was i thought i shit myself anyways that's a story for another day yeah i did i was like that's weird i

thought i would have did you not realize i was shitting myself or your mom didn't tell you no we were we were defunded we didn didn't get sex ed at my school. So I thought I shit myself and I'm like, can I no longer? I thought that like my sphincter was numb or something. But it turns out I was just a woman and it worked out. Okay, so maybe it's not so unbelievable. I can relate with Jacob the werewolf. Got it.

Let's talk about the scene where she goes to Port Angeles and those creepy dudes follow her and prey on her. Let's talk about the scene where she goes to Port Angeles and those creepy dudes follow her and prey on her. Let's. So, as I mentioned, she sort of fights back. They're all like, hey, pretty lady, where are you going? And she's like, get away from me. Don't touch me. Edward shows up, saves her, which happens a bunch of times.

Don't worry. I'm in a list of all the times he has to save her. But as JT, you pointed out. I'm an educator. He puts, he takes her out of that one dangerous situation and then puts her immediately into another dangerous situation because he's driving extremely recklessly. Yeah.

He's a bad boy. He yells at her about how she always puts herself in these dangerous situations and she's so awkward and she's always following and then pulls right out in the middle of traffic. It's like beep, beep. Like everyone's just yelling at him him and then the aftermath of that scene is when they like show up at the restaurant and i love the restaurant it's so weird it's so good it's so weird i love it

so she's like you gotta give me some answers she's demanding to know what's going on right still being super he tries the big bullshit. She should not have let her friends leave, first of all. But that's a novice mistake I could see myself making. The friends were so mad when she disappeared for 12 hours, but then when Edward's there, they're like, oh, it's fine. They're like, we better get going. Do what you want. So she's like, did you follow me?

And he's like, I just feel very protective of you. It's not okay. Listen, sometimes someone's going to stare at you during your math test and you're going to be like, I'm just being protective. I'm kidding. I'm kidding. But it's so frustrating that she keeps being like, tell me what the fuck is going on. And he's just like, I'm protecting you. And then she keeps falling for it.

This is also the scene where we finally get some answers and he reveals that he can read minds. Right. And that he can't read hers. Right. And then her reaction. Oh, she's like, is there something wrong with me? You can't read my mind. What's wrong with me?

Right. So automatically I'm the person that's messed up in this situation. Right. You were just like, I'm a mind reader and you're like i'm i'm sorry but here's the thing i don't want to relate to this movie in any way but as a 16 or 17 year old girl well you have to put yourself in those shoes right that's yeah like when i you know you're very self-conscious you don't have a lot of self-esteem at that age usually so I think it was it was actually kind of like humanizing a bit to I found it believable that she'd be like what's wrong with me teenagers of either gender are easily manipulated true I know this I was just doing it to a teenager this morning

I mean well it's just him being feeling so protective of her and controlling of her it's just one of the many ways he's abusive toward her and right backtracking a little bit to the scene where they're all at the beach and push baby that la push is la push there is a point where it's the friend who isn't anna kendrick angela angela sorry she so angela wants to ask eric eric jd knows angela wants to ask eric to the prom and bella and this part literally infuriates me because i know how unfair this whole fucking series is to women where bella says take control you're a strong and independent woman and i'm like where do you get off you're about to go vampire man there's a few moments in this movie where it's like there's bella's last stand as a as a person with any sort of agency or opinions bella and angela do that a lot in the beginning uh when angela first meets bella

angela's like hey i work for the newspaper and i'm just so tired of talking about eating disorders and bella's like what about the boys uh swim team speedos and angela's like yeah you're really good at advice yeah honestly which here this is a controversial opinion because obviously mike is a chode but i think she should have just employed the catch-all jamie loftus solution of just date mike so that she can fix him no just to kill some time and give the vampire time to get the fuck out of her way and not ruin her life better to have a chode for a couple months than be immortal and have a baby that's eating you. See, well, again, I think she should have dated Jacob.

Jacob is her gay best friend. Jacob, they had a rapport. No, I agree. But do you think he was gay? That first movie, I prayed. I don't even believe in God and I prayed. Oh, God. He's a great and then

stephanie meyer ruins him by making him a pedophile like cutting off that wig what did you say oh he's so handsome there's a looking at him another fun scene that bella she's like why did you hate me so much and he's like i did but only for making me want you so badly. Which is so victim blamey. Oh my God. What you said, yeah. And it's like, if you weren't so fucking hard, I wouldn't have wanted to eat your blood. I'm good.

Again, it's Edward has a problem inside. He's trying to figure out who he is. He hasn't seen Moana. That's no excuse. And he puts it on Bella. It's Bella's fault. It's not fair to her. It's definitely not fair. The scene where he makes her say the word vampire.

Say it. Vampire. Vampire. And then he... It's not even a good line read. No. He goes into it. Vampire. vampire vampire and then he it's not even a good line read no he grabs her arm and yanks her and let her like pulls her through uh are you afraid no no i trust you i trust you oh my little spider

monkey and then seconds later you're beautiful he gives the line so the lion fell in love with the lamb and that's the like that's when he decides to fall in love with her. That's it. Oh, the scene where they're falling in love and there's fog and Edward Collins playing the piano. It's actually him playing the piano.

I remember. You're just like, oh, wow. He really knew. The director was like, why not? Female director, to add insult to injury.

Yeah. Catherine Hardwick directed this movie. Woman director. Female director. to add insult to injury, Catherine Hardwick directed this movie. Woman director. Female director. Woman screenwriter adapted by a book written by a woman. It should be a winner. Should be a winner. Should be a winner.

Here we are. But everyone's their own woman and they found a bunch of bad ones. Let's talk about Act 3. Whenever. This movie ends. Great. Finally. Bella goes after James to like be a martyr.

To be like. Again. Right. Of course, Edward has to step in and save her. One of many times he saves her. So we've got saves her from the van. Saves her from the creepy dudes in Port Angeles. Saves her from James. he steps in to save her there's vampire venom all up in her so she's lying on the floor

she doesn't do anything she's supposed to be the protagonist she's the hero of this story she doesn't do anything to resolve the conflict she's rendered completely inactive and totally passive and she doesn't do anything to determine the outcome of the story which is not how storytelling works how do you know so much about storytelling oh it's just because i have a master's degree in screenwriting from boston university oh my god yeah it's very impressive one more time alfred melina is to jamie as screenwriting degree is to Caitlin. That was one of the questions on my GRE, which I did have to take to go to grad school for screenwriting. What year did Alfred Molina join the Royal Shakespeare Company?

1977. Yeah. So the protagonist of this movie. That's my security question. The protagonist in this movie in her most dire moment is paralyzed yeah right well this kind of reminds me to just bring alfred back into it freddy sorry um of sort of that one-off moment in spider-man 2 at the climactic scene where mary jane makes one attempt to hit a blow on the villain and is just ceremoniously thrown to the side.

And that's pretty much what happens to Bella. She makes the choice to go. We see her making a choice. Things are bad, but at least, you know, you're like, oh, all right, she's making a decision. It's bad, but it's her choice. Well, it's a stupid as hell choice because she's not equipped to fight these vampires you know who is the other vampires who she's friends with now but she makes a choice and that happens so rarely already so it's like at that point i was like i i know what happens but that

is misleading and that maybe she'll do something and then she does make like one attempt to go against what was like what were we calling him the sniffer she tries to get the sniffer and then he snit he's he sniffs her right to the side and she's she's done he like touches her leg and it breaks immediately right and you're just like well there goes the protagonist yeah she's done so god it was just so annoying that she is completely ineffective in doing anything to determine the outcome of the story. It's a big moment for the relationship, though, between Bella and Edward. Remember, she's bleeding profusely and Alice can't control herself.

She might bite off her head at any time. She did just rip off someone else's head. Yeah, Carlisle sends her off to actually do some damage. And that's when Edward learns about himself that he won't eat her because he loves her so much and he doesn't want her to die I know it's so romantic well and then the scene after that when she's

when Bella's in the hospital her mom's like what you don't want to move to Phoenix again you want to stay in Forks with hot ass Charlie Swan well okay and then she leaves. Hot-ass. Let's just say it again. Hot-ass Charlie

Swan. And then Edward, who had been pretending to be asleep because guess what? He doesn't need to sleep. Great. I bet you get so much done. Except you don't because you just go to high school fucking 40 times. Where's your novel, doofus? Right. Exactly. You don't have to go to high school. You could just stay inside.

Rob is classically trained as an actor in sleeping. He's really good at, you know, I believed it. A classically trained sleeper. Yeah. Well,

okay, so the scene in the hospital whenever Edward's like, you know what? I don't, maybe we shouldn't be together. I'm putting you

in too much danger a la Spider-Man. But but she's like i can't live without you yeah maybe it's convincing we gotta get one last infuriating moment in there where he's like i've treated you shitty this entire movie and now i'm saying that maybe we shouldn't be together and she's just like no but I'm irrevocably in love with you irrevocably there I mean there are consequences to being with Edward right like she's literally broken after this fight um she's broken up with her dad after spending months trying to fix this relationship that she hasn't had since she was four or whatever she has to lie to him what she says that was a painful scene to watch she really breaks his heart with like they both do a really good job i don't want to end up like mom just stuck here

right and he's like oh i am boring like that's all she's implying is like you're such a drag dad um really quickly on the subject of katherine hardwick because it is extremely difficult and was relatively historic at the time for a female director in 2008 to be given the reins to this massive blockbuster her previous directorial history prior to this included a movie I used to love that I would probably not love as much if I revisited now called 13 do you remember this movie it came out in 2003 before i was 13 so i was like this is what i have to look forward to and it's like young girls fucking and doing drugs and messing their lives up but anyways that was like her big debut and and she graduated out of that started getting bigger hollywood gigs gets twilight

does almost every installment i don't think she does the last one and then just speaking to women in hollywood in general since twilight this massively for all of its shortcomings of which there are many for all of its massive success she has had very little major release work since then which i think is a testament to sorry not to correct her mansplain um you are my least favorite man in the world uh new moon was directed by ch Wentz. So not, not her. Was she, well, maybe she was only. Eclipse was directed by David Slade. Uh, Breaking Dawn was directed by Bill Condon.

So it seems like it was all men after this first one. Wait a second. Okay. So. So they didn't even bring her back. That's crazy. Yeah, they didn't. It was a success.

It was a huge success. It was a huge success it was a huge success oh okay so she sorry i i was misreading that yeah she dropped out of the new moon sequel she was offered the new moon sequel but ended up not being able to do it because of a scheduling thing which is like uh katherine make it work got it i do this It seems as though the screenwriter, Melissa Rosenberg, did work on slash write most of the sequels. So she returned for the others. It's bizarre because, yeah, if you look at Catherine Harvick's filmography since then, she didn't direct another movie for three years after the first Twilight and has only directed three movies total in the past 10 years. So I'm ready for her comeback.

You know, right. She directed Lords of Dogtown, the skateboard movie for Crying Out Loud. Oh. Yeah. Skip that one. I didn't see that. She also directed The Nativity Story. Let's not rule out the fact that maybe she's not a great director.

But also, crummy male directors get 45 second chances. Catherine Hardwicke has not been as fortunate. And it just feels worth mentioning. I can't speak to the quality of her work because, you know, Lord of the Dead, every movie that I'm thinking of that she's directed kind of sucks. I have a daydream where this story isn't about Edward and Bella. It's about Bella and Charlie. And a comeback story where a young daughter learns to love her dad again. And sure, there's a vampire in the background.

But at the end of the day, Charlie really loves his daughter, you know? Charlie is so bad at his job. He's a police officer. Oh, man. And crime is running rampant. There are otherworldly creatures. And most of the time, he's at a diner ordering food for bella yeah he's like she'll have this not a full-time job oh yeah that's true which like what is this he cal hockley's he orders her a lamb just you like lamb right

sweet pea sorry we yelled over you that's all all right. It's about time, you know. Yet he does make some questionable choices with his career as the town police officer. He's the chief of police. Oh, he's the chief of police. Not even just like a random officer. He's the chief. So there are animal attacks happening all around town and he arms Bella with some mace. You know, the vampire stopper.

Yeah. Mace. mace you know the vampire stopper yeah mace um at one point after the field trip where bella has a horrible time with edward she comes home and he's already on his second beer at lunch and she immediately starts cleaning up after him she does yeah so that's why i wanted that to be the focus of the story i understand why be Bella's mom left him because he does seem to be A, bad at his job and B, an alcoholic. However, both parents are really

horrible and it's amazing that Bella is alive. Hey, listen, if Robert Pattinson's raw-dogging you, you're like, I wasn't raised right there's a fun scene where they're like talking about going to prom

and Bella's like but I can't dance and Edward says I can always make you very romantic oh another moment where she's not like the others is where he makes some sort of numbers joke and then she's like I don't need to know what the square root of pi is i'm like oh she is she's a smart cookie oh and he swoons

and he's like you know that you know or when she knows women in stem you are or and then when she knows the name of a composer and she's like oh yeah he's really good and then he's like you know who that is and then he's like i have to take out my fog machine i need to play you a piano solo right now well that's one of my big problems with this movie just in a narrative sense is that we don't really ever know why they like each other except for the fact that they're attracted to each other but they're like both of them are so yeah but he's a hundred so you're right they're just both so devoid of personality that like it's confusing why they like each other like what are they compatible about nothing well edward can't you know he hears everyone's thoughts all the time and people are gross right it's like sex sex sex

cats right and like that should be annoying right so like he comes across young bella and like i get why it would be enticing but he paints this picture of like this is fate this is destiny we have to be together right now. I have to stalk you. And that's just not how it should have been. Well, like, if he finds her intriguing that he doesn't have to listen to her thoughts all the time, fine. I guess I get that. But then he demands to know what she's thinking all the time.

He's like, you're the only person I can't read, so you need to tell me what you're thinking all the time. And then she's like, and unfortunately, she's probably like um sex and cats unfortunately you have a blind spot but i am a person and thinking about sex and cats as well but she's not she's thinking about numbers and i don't want to dance i'm i'm awkward one thing i do want to point out which does not redeem this movie in any way, but I do like that there's pretty equal gender balance in terms of about half the characters are women whose names we know and have at least some role in the story. Because a problem we come up with on the podcast a lot is that there are hardly any women in this whatever story we're talking about. And it's nice that Bella has some some female friends she's got jess she's got angela she's got alice they like develop more of a friendship in the later movies and books and she has a relationship with her mom so it's nice to see that there are some like female bonds that is nice they all have

they'll have thoughts they all have opinions. They all have conflicts. Except for Victoria the vampire. I think she's just trying to eat people. But everyone else. Well, she gets mad in the second. The blonde one.

Oh, at the very, very end because she's at prom watching as vampires do. She's, no, the blonde one is Rosalie. She's also the Cullen. The star of 13.

Oh. Nikki Reed. Huh. She's one of those directors. And now you the star of 13. Oh. Nikki Reed. Huh. She's one of those directors. And now you know. Bring back the cast. Get the gang back together. But Victoria is one of the evil vampire ladies.

Oh, the bad one. The last person you see in the movie. Right. For some reason. Because, well, she was with, she was dating James, whose head gets ripped off. She's pissed. And she's mad. She's like, you ripped off my boyfriend's head.

I loved the sniffer. I loved the sniffer. So she has a personal vendetta against Bella now, which becomes the story. Yeah, it was real. It wasn't just like a teenage romance where they just sort of liked the way each other looked. They were together for a while. They were bonded. They were, as vampires do.

Does anyone have any final thoughts about that? Have you gotten through your seven pages of notes? Yeah, I overprepared because I'm a type A educator. I think I loved this movie 10 years ago because I didn't know what it meant to be a feminist and I didn't know what it meant to love myself or love another person. And now I am sort of a feminist and I do love myself. Yeah. I mean, I have some t-shirts.

What the future is female. Check me out on Twitter. But now I have a good sense of what it means to be in a stable, normal, respectful relationship. And I can look back and say, this was a fun movie to pregame to before I went out to the club, but I don't think that it's a very positive film and I don't, I wouldn't recommend it to any of my students. Thank you. I think that that is a sentiment that a lot of us can relate to. Yeah. Where like 10 years ago, it was a, not a simpler time. It was a, it was a more lecherous time and the further you go back, the worse it gets. So we're doing better now.

We're in a better place as a culture. Moana came out. And since then, things have been on the up and up. But then Transformers came out again. I mean, I don't know if we're in a better place as a culture. But we as individuals are in better places. We're growing. Chilling.

We're chillaxing donald trump is president so you know yeah that's not too good no it's not too good at all we as a culture don't like that but my taste has gotten even more exquisite if you can believe it from 10 years ago so spider-man 2 is still in my top five and has been for over 10 years. Check out Spider-Man Homecoming. I really enjoyed it. Oh, I haven't seen it yet. I want to describe it as irrevocably, but that wouldn't be... Irrevocably a movie I've seen.

It's true. You can't go unsee it. You can't take it back. There's a lot of female characters for how bad this movie is to women. True. Like you were just saying, and I hadn't even thought of it. There's a lot of female characters for how bad this movie is to women. Like you were just saying, and I hadn't even thought of it. It probably is about half and half in terms of male versus female characters, which doesn't happen a lot in movies.

But also makes it just as bad that all the female characters are just... Well, there are many more opportunities for the movie to pass the Bechdel test than we see in the average movie. What was your read? Does it pass? Does it not pass? I think it does, but only very, very minimally and often in a conversation where they then shift the focus to a man. So like. Right. We're talking two line exchanges.

Right. At one point, Bella and angela and jess are talking about their prom dresses right and then the subtext is it's about the boys and how the boys will react to the dresses yeah right so still technically passes but uh there's one scene in the kitchen in the vampire house between alice and bella she says hi i, I'm Alice. Bella says, hi. And then Alice says, you do smell good. So that passes. And then Esme's like, are you hungry? And Bella's like, yes.

Right. And then there's like a weird dramatic unnecessary, she just ate. All right. And then Rosalie's like, she breaks the glass with her.'m just like calm down she's really upset rosalie to be fair to chill no to be fair a family of 100 year old vampires are trying to court a 17 year old so i get it rosalie they make an italian meal and then her name's bella twilight is a movie that forever changes the bechdel test. It's like, how does the Bechdel test change when women can be food?

You know? Wow. I'm into this line of things. I don't think it passes. Because they're always talking to food, not to people, not to other women. It's like, you're not a person. Yeah, Allison Bechdel, where were you on that? What if women can also be eaten?

Right. It's like two meals talking to each other. That doesn't pass the Bechtel test. I would say the scene where Bella and Jess meet each other in the gym after she's just spiked a volleyball at Chode Mike's head passes because Jessica goes, I'm Jessica, by the way. You're from Arizona, right? Bella's like, yeah. Yeah. And Jessica's like, aren't people from Arizona supposed to be like really tan?

And Bella's like, maybe that's why they kicked me out. Cue uproarious laughter from everybody. Everyone's like, we love the new girl. She's funny. Yeah. I mean, this movie, as a movie that there are, you know, books written on how bad it is to women, does pass the Bechdel test if you can believe it but as we no excuse often acknowledge the bechdel test is not like the end-all be-all

it is literally indicator right yeah let's start here and then right so twilight for all of its shortcomings gets to step one right but that's as far as it gets. But it stops right there. With that, let's rate the movie, our nipple scale, to our listeners who are not familiar with the nipple scale. Let's start with the Twilight episode.

Go back and listen to Thelma and Louise. Come on. Or Moana. Come on. And then revisit this episode. Go listen to Thelma and Louise. Come on. Or Moana. Come on. And then revisit this episode. Go listen to Gigli. No, do not endorse that. No, Gigli's a good episode.

Hey, I give it one nipple. Okay. Because we're rating it based on its portrayal of women. One nipple because I do like that there's a pretty equal gender balance in terms of male versus female characters. Pretty equal across the board. And I like that you do see Bella often standing up for herself. Again, it doesn't really matter because she ends up in this abusive relationship, but you do at least on many, many occasions see her be like,

no, don't touch me no i want answers no stop gaslighting me i know what i saw like by to buy by two-thirds the way into the movie it's she's done for right uh but we do see the dying breaths of what was once a somewhat confidence on the work she is awkward but uh someone who can at least ask you know not afraid of confrontation not afraid of asking a question that is reasonable to a man sure yes so that's why it gets one star and not zero stars stars oh my god um their nipples oh god what i'm What? I'm so sorry. Stars are some other rating system. Okay, one nipple. One nipple for Caitlin.

One nipple for me would have gotten a zero nipple rating, but it has a tiny little thing going for it. Isn't there a thing where you give the nipple to someone? Yeah, well, we describe the nipple. Okay. My nipple belongs to Jacob, whose nipple we see in New Moon. Oh, boy, do we. He's like, I'm riding on a motorcycle. I got to take my shirt off. And you see his nipple, and it's a good nipple.

Highly endorse that nipple. So, Team Jacob. Team Jacob. Agree. I'm going to give it one and a half nipples. Okay. Because technically, with our rubric, it does pass the Bactyl test, which I was honestly very surprised that it does technically more than once.

There are a lot of female characters and then almost exclusively wasted potential. But this is, to be clear, the one and a half is for this movie only, not in any way for the whole series, which gets negative nipples because it actively removes more and more agency from its female characters as the series goes on, begins to kill them off, etc. But for this movie alone, I'll give it one and a half because like you were saying, we see Bella not be totally gaslighted at the beginning we see her fight as she goes down uh and descends into the worst years of her life which presumably lasts forever uh so i'll give one and a half and i'm gonna give one to that fucking jacksonville batting cage chode phil and then I'll give half of one to Angela because she was the closest we got to anything.

She was a strong, independent woman. She asked Eric. She asked Eric. And he said, yes, they go to prom together. They sure do. Good for her. Go, Angela. Half a nipple for you.

Yay. Interesting premise. I mean, it didn't really deliver, but I think this would have been a great movie if it were about Bella and her dad or Bella and her gay best friend, Jacob. It was not about those things. So I'm going to give it one and a half. Why can't it be about Bella and her mom? Why can't it be about a female relationship? She moved away. She's in Florida. Yeah, that doesn't have to happen when you're rewriting. Okay, I'm still giving it one and a half nipples, and that is because in the trailer to New Moon, there was a lot of controversy about Edward's left nipple. If you guys haven't read about Nipplegate,

people really went to town on gay Twitter about Edward's maybe fucked up body. Maybe he wasn't as perfect as everyone thought. I actually kind of remember this. One and a half nipples for Rob Pattinson's left nipple. Okay. Thank you. Dear God. Hey, JT, my dear friend.

Yes. Thanks for being here. Thank you for having me. We've had a swell time. This is really different from my day job, which is an educator. Right. Do you want some followers? Where can people find you on Twitter?

At JT in the cloud. I say funny things about culture and video games and education and feminism. Hey, you can follow the Bechtelcast on many different platforms. For instance, Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, Bechtelcast. Some variation on it. Fucking figure it out. You'll find it. We have a live show coming up in New York in September.

We'll be posting more about that probably by the time this comes out. You'll be able to buy tickets. That's exciting. Check our various media places. Find out a place to buy things to that thing. And we'll see you at that thing. And we're going to have a big old fun time. We're going to chillax.

Chillax. We're going to be lamping in New York City. La Push, baby. Okay, bye. Bye. Chillax. We're going to be lamping in New York City. La Push, baby. Okay, bye. Bye. Say it. Daphne Caruana Galizia was a Maltese investigative journalist who on October 16th, 2017, was assassinated.

Crooks everywhere unearthed the plot to murder a one-woman WikiLeaks. She exposed the culture of crime and corruption that were turning her beloved country into a mafia state. Listen to Crooks everywhere on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Hey, I'm Gianna Pradenti. And I'm Jemaine Jackson-Gadson. We're the hosts of Let's Talk Offline from LinkedIn News and iHeart Podcasts. There's a lot to figure out when you're just starting your career. That's where we come in. Think of us as your work besties you can turn to for advice. And if we don't know the answer, we bring in people who do, like negotiation expert Maury Tahiripour.

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