The Bechdel Cast - V for Vendetta with Marcella Arguello

Episode Date: November 2, 2017

On this very invigorating and vibrant episode, Vaitlin, Vamie, and visitor Marcella Arguello voice their valuable views on V for Vendetta. (This episode contains spoilers)For Bechdel bonuses, sign up for our Patreon at patreon.com/bechdelcast. Follow @marcellacomedy on Twitter! While you're there, you should also follow @BechdelCast, @caitlindurante and @hamburgerphone  Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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from Blumhouse Television, iHeartRadio, and Realm. Listen to Dream Sequence on the iHeartRadio app, They're just dreams. Confessions. Join hosts Gabe Gonzalez and Chris Patterson Rosso as they explore queer sex, cruising, relationships, and culture in the new iHeart podcast, Sniffy's Cruising Confessions. Sniffy's Cruising Confessions will broaden minds and help you pursue your true goals. You can listen to Sniffy's Cruising Confessions, sponsored by Gilead, now on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts. New episodes every Thursday. On the Bechdelcast, the questions asked if movies have women in them. Are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands or do they have individualism? The patriarchy's effing vast. Start changing it with the Bechdelcast. Hello, welcome to the Bechdelcast. My name's Jamie. My name's Caitlin.

And this is our podcast. About the portrayal of women in movies. That's right. And how it's usually not good. That's Jamie. My name's Caitlin. And this is our podcast. About the portrayal of women in movies. That's right. And how it's usually not good. That's right. But sometimes it is. Sometimes. Good, better than you think.

Right. I'm trying to stay positive today. But those are the outliers. I'm negative Nancy over here still. Fun dynamic. Yeah. Good cop, bad cop. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I'm feeling good today. It's very hot, but it's okay. And you just came from Universal Studios. I did. I have a friend in town, and I had to occupy her for a finite number of hours. Had some passes to Universal. It worked out perfect. So we went on a bunch of...

Did you go to the mummy ride? Did we go to the mummy ride? It's the best ride. Yes. We did go to the mummy ride. Went on the Harry Potter ride. Went on the Simpsons ride. Did the mummy ride. It's the best ride. Yes. We did go to the mummy ride. Went on the Harry Potter ride. Went on the Simpsons ride. Did the whole bit.

You know, like reached that point where it's like we've been friends for so long that we got into like a small silent argument in the middle of the day and then it just passed

in the way that it does with old friends. And then we went on the Harry Potter ride again. And now I'm here. So, pretty good day. Great.

Awesome. I sat in my bed for several hours. Amazing. Also pretty good day. Great. Awesome. I sat in my bed for several hours. Amazing. Also a good day. Yeah. So our podcast is inspired by the Bechdel test. It's a test that requires that two characters in a movie are women.

They have names. They talk to each other and their conversation can be about anything besides a man. Created by Alice and Bechdel. Been around for a long time. We just use it as a yardstick for a larger discussion. That was concise. That was a really good one. Good for us.

Good for us. Good for us. All right. And with that, let's introduce our guest. Yay. You've seen her on At Midnight. Sure have. You've seen her win At Midnight several times.

She's a hilarious comedian,cella argueo oh my god thank you so much hold the applause thank you everybody thank you for having me thanks for coming i'm excited so we're talking about v for vendetta my favorite movie okay tell us of all time i think so well cool yeah all right when did you first see it that i can't answer i don't know i don't know i don't know when i first saw it i just remember loving it and loving it more and then watching it again and loving it more and this is coming from a person who hates movies yeah i hate movies and i don't know i don't know what did it i mean i guess i could guess but i remember at the

beginning i was like i don't know what is it why do i keep watching this movie over and over and over again when i loved it okay um it used to be I would watch it every 5th of November. Because I was like, I'm watching this every year. I might as well kind of like save it for the 5th of November. And then my dad's funeral was on the 5th of November. And then I stopped watching it. I stopped watching it for a few years. And then I just recently got back into watching it again.

Yeah. I can't associate the november 5th with i can associate it with two things and be fine with it sure right and actually that might have been the first november 5th i missed it for for that exact reason and it's weird because i don't even know how i landed on it yeah it's like i said i don't like a lot of movies i don't like watching a lot of movies but i really i like this one and this is one of those movies too like i feel like even by looking at the poster you're're like, oh, this movie is pretty long. Yeah.

Like, it looks like, oh, this is, we're going to have to strap in and do some thinking on this one. All right. Am I ready? It's going to be a lecture. Yeah, exactly. There's going to be some philosophical something or other. So there's going to be a lot of domino visual. One of my favorite parts of the movie, I'm like, oh, he just had this.

He just had this around. Of course he did. Yeah. He had everything. He had so many props. Of course he did. Yeah. He had everything. He had so many props. Where did his wealth come from? He's a real carrot top philosopher. Well, he was a thief.

He stole a bunch of stuff, but he also was able to somehow afford that giant house shadow gallery that he lived in. This is what I kind of like about graphic novel adaptations, too, where it's even more so than film. I feel like such a visual symbolic medium that when it's adapted to film like probably in the graphic novel it looks super cool and normal to be like oh he just has these dominoes but in the movie you're just like wait he just has those dominoes like it's still super cool but i was like taken out of it for a second of like who set those up like he lives alone doesn't reset those doesn't use the internet no No. That's another thing. This takes place in 2027

and no one seems to have phones and there's like chunky desktops which I also love. I love like futuristic movies for that reason of like why do they have you know personalized doorknobs but no one has a cell phone?

The video that he like makes everyone watch when he's like in a year from now I'm going to blow up a fucking building. It's on a little mini CD. It's like, that technology. I used to love those mini CDs, though. Because you could get them at Staples.

And I remember I would make my friends mix CDs, but you could only fit three or four songs on it. It had to be a really concise mix. And he had a concise mix. He did. And to your point about the future and they didn't have any cell phones but their government was controlling them so they wouldn't have cell phones. So it was just like

in theory all the information is routed to them via TV and that's their only source. That makes sense. Well yeah because that would cut down on their ability to communicate with each other. Listen, if you try to make fun of this movie I'm going to knock you down. That's why we do this. It makes sense. Okay. Yeah. Well, yeah, because that would cut down on their ability to communicate with each other. Listen, if you try to make fun of this movie, I'm going to knock you down. That's why we do this. I know. This is great.

I love this movie. The dominoes, though. The dominoes really, I like rewound it again just to be like, where did these, what? Well, the poor art department who had to set that up. Every time I see that, that's what I think about. Especially now that I've worked in this industry. I'm like, Oh my God, how many times did they have to do that?

That's like, I hope there was a shot that they did where the dominoes went perfectly. And they're like, Oh my God, the camera wasn't on. We're so sorry. Battery was out. We're so sorry.

It looked amazing. Please reset all 4,000. Oh my God. That's, that's all. That's the only thing I think of now when I watch it. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's like a, it's like a visually my god. That's the only thing I think of now when I watch it.

It's like a visually beautiful movie. There's so much cool shit going on. And the graphic novel is really dark. So you've read it? Yeah, I've read it. It's obviously longer and I'm not one of those like, the book is better than the movie because I didn't read the book before I watched the movie. So for me, I'm just like

it's different. It's just a little different yeah but I like because it's darker which is where the element of of that like darkness and it's always kind of just there's just so there's so many elements of darkness I hate you've said it five times now darkness um it's a same author as uh Watchmen I went more and more which I didn't enjoy I did not enjoy that movie I liked the book I mean there's similar books like thematically it's very dark very he's a he's a head scratcher that Alan Moore he's also got a big old head of hair I've got his wikipedia page he is uh he's a wanderer you could tell he's walking the streets at night he inspired. Yeah. He's with his hands in pockets, very film noir. I was trying to figure out

more about what his deal is. So he would not put his name on this movie. I read that, yeah. And wouldn't take royalties either because I think he's just like, I don't know, older, weird, punk rock

kind of dude. I read something to the effect that he was dissatisfied with other film adaptations of his works. Was Watchmen before this or after? the effect that he was dissatisfied with other film adaptations of his works. Was Watchmen before this or after? After, but he was referring to he was not satisfied with the adaptations of From Hell or League of Extraordinary Gentlemen. So he's like, I'm not going to watch Vendetta and fuck all you guys.

That's probably the best one. Yeah, probably. I think so. Or at least the one you hear most about.. Yeah, probably. I think so, yeah. Or at least the one you hear most about. Yeah. Or, like, people still watch it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. People are still inspired by it.

Which brings me to my history with this movie. I saw it in the theater, I think, multiple times. And I was obsessed with it for a while. I was so obsessed with it, I wanted to get a tattoo of the V symbol. I never did, but I was like, maybe I should get a tattoo. Right, because I would very much regret it. But I was like, maybe my first tattoo will be of the V symbol. Yeah, I just, I loved it.

I saw it so many times. But I hadn't seen it in quite a few years before I rewatched it for this. And I have a bit of a different take on it. Oh, yeah? I still like it, and I have a bit of a different take on it oh yeah I still like it and I was still very moved by it I cried like three different times oh that's interesting like but watching it through watching it through the Bechdel lens you have a little different of a perspective on it I can understand that yeah I saw this movie I want to say I saw it like late high school or

something like that and then I remember right before I want to say I saw it like late high school or something like that. And then I remember, right before I went to college, someone gave me a V for Vendetta poster. And I like, I didn't super remember the movie very well. But I liked what that projected. I was like, it would be cool if someone walked in my room and saw V for Vendetta poster. So I remember my whole freshman year of college, I had a V for Vdata poster, and I was just constantly in fear someone was going to ask me a follow-up question. I would be like, uh, I don't, uh, what is it about? Because I would wake up next to it every day and be like, man, I like what this says about me. I feel like it says I'm cool. But I was, I liked the movie, but I had only seen it once. And then I think I've seen it maybe three times total now.

I watched it yesterday. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I can't wait to discuss it. But first, I'll do the recap. Recap. Recap. So V for Vendetta is set in the UK in sort of like a police state.

Neo-fascist. Neo-fascist regime. We meet Evie Hammond the young woman and we meet V sort of like a radical

vigilante guy who is trying to ignite a revolution and they cross paths on his way to blowing up

the old Bailey this like monument in London he's basically like a highly politicized phantom of the opera like that's like his jam. That's accurate. Yeah.

Right. He wears a mask. You never see him take off his mask in the entire movie. Unlike Gerard Butler in Phantom of the Opera. And they cross paths

and he ends up having to save her from finger men, these like cops who are trying to rape her. Ironically, yeah. Men who like want to finger her. What a, yeah, men who like want to finger her.

What a scary scene, like right at the... I had forgotten about that scene. That was hard to watch. It really was. And then so she sort of becomes embroiled in his plot. He wants to blow up the houses of parliament inspired by Guy Fawkes, who tried to do the same thing in 1605.

But you find out, you learn over the course of the movie, that he has this vendetta. Whoa, that's the name of the movie. He's trying to seek revenge on different members who rose to power who had wronged him. He was basically imprisoned in this facility, was tested on. They were trying to develop biological warfare viruses that they did unleash on the population.

Like 100,000 people or something? Who died, yeah. The government in their sort of authoritarian style covered it all up. And they're like, it was actually these religious extremists, but it was actually the government who did this. So he's basically trying to uncover all these secrets and kill all the people who wronged him. And then he wants to blow up the building because the building is a symbol and that's going to ignite a revolution that he wants. So he's like, in a year, I'm going to blow up this building. And everyone's like, oh, my God.

Okay. And then I love it. Like, it is like, oh, just count down to domestic terrorism from moment one of the movie. You're like, cool so he has to basically capture and imprison evie because she did the opera this whole like recurring theme of i'm gonna kidnap this woman and re-educate her to think exactly like me there's a lot of parallels between and then like kind of a i guess like not as much beauty and the beast for me it's just like a weird like i'm taking this woman who speaks to me for whatever reason and that's open to interpretation

and i'm gonna you know kind of just get her to think like me and agree with me on things and then you know i i don't know i don't know yeah well i mean i know what you mean oh i mean that's what this movie is about although you could argue differently differently, but like, yeah, rewatching, I was like, oh man. Sorry, I keep interrupting. No, it's cool. I mean, I'm sort of all over the place with this recap because it's a hard movie to summarize. There's a lot going on. There's a lot going on. So there's also this chief inspector, Finch, who is trying to uncover the identity of V.

And he's also after Evie Hammond because everyone thinks she's like this accomplice which she ends up being. He's a real grumbly powder. He's pounding all these hey what's going on over here? Who can I trust? Yeah. And then this whole sort of conspiracy gets uncovered where V was at this detention center

at Lark Hill. This virus had been tested on him and they were able to use something about like the antibodies in his blood to develop a cure for the virus that they then unleashed on the population for Chancellor Sutler to gain political power and then make a bunch of people rich in this party, this political party. So a lot of details, a lot going on. And then so in the end, V gets his like last revenge on Chancellor Sutler and his like right hand goonie guy, Creedy. And then so in the end, V gets his like last revenge on Chancellor Suttler and his like right hand goonie guy, Creedy. And then V kills them both.

And then Evie's like, I guess now I have to fucking destroy the fucking Big Ben building. And then she does. And then everyone's like, wow, a revolution. Yeah. And the grumbly powder guy is there too. And she's like, I'm gonna blow the building. And he's kind of like, yeah, okay. I like that part where he's like, you know what? He's like, you know what?

I'm gonna just... Well, they end up together. Yeah. Yes. Yeah, you see like a flash forward that's like the future and they're together. Right, right, right. So that's the moment that they let it happen. What a little, what a cute meet cute. It's a real rom-com meet cute. Better than Tinder, that's the moment that it happened. What a cute meet cute. It's a real rom-com meet cute.

Better than Tinder, that's for sure. I can't wait to meet my next boyfriend on the eve of a revolution. That's a high stakes meet cute and I'm into it. What a good story. Like, oh yeah, before we blew up Parliament, we're like, maybe there's something here. Yeah. Question, and this may have just genuinely been like i was not paying close enough attention um were there people in the parliament building were we killing people i feel like they had a year's notice to like call into work that day right yeah i don't know it didn't seem like there was or i think we would have seen it okay

that makes me feel a little bit i mean i would assume it would strictly be employees so why would it be working in the middle of the night that's true okay yeah because it was at midnight when this happened i was just when i was watching i was just like i i just hope yeah i don't think i'm all for symbolism i just don't want anyone to get hurt yeah i don't know i don't think people were in the building if there were i feel like we would have seen it right i don't think anyone was killed when he blew up the bailey yeah monument either monument either. He killed a lot of people. But it would have been reported. Or would it have been because the government is established in the movie?

Well, it would have been discussed in the movie, not necessarily told or informed. We would know. We would know. We would know. Yeah. So that's the story. And I kind of want to go through the story in a different way but as it relates to the treatment of women so i have some like major points okay so one of the first things that

happens is that evie goes outside past this like government curfew and almost gets raped by policemen the government yeah right and then she has to be saved by a man and this is when she meets v so we see the trope of a of a man. And this is when she meets V. So we see the trope of a man having to save a woman because she's in a dangerous situation. Well, there is something to be said about, especially what's going on in the news right now with the Harvey Weinsteins and all these motherfuckers that are sexually assaulting and raping women. I mean, we do need men to stand beside us. Oh, sure. So in that way, I do like that he does save her because he knows it's the right thing to do.

And he almost makes her feel like I'm not going to do this, too, because that's not right. There are people there are men and women that can exist side by side. And a woman does not have to feel like she is going to be raped by a man because there's plenty of guy friends of mine that I feel that way. I feel safe with them and we have to feel safe with men in order to coexist, right? Right. So I actually like that part of the movie. I honestly didn't mind it either.

I was more calling out that that is a trope that we see over and over again, but it never bothered me with this movie when I saw it. Well, also, I mean, how often do we see a woman about to get raped, and then the dude immediately kills those dudes because he's like, fuck you. How fucking dare you try to rape this girl? No questions asked. There's rarely immediate consequence.

Which is nice to see. It is. And it's also, it's just nice that he's just like, oh, you're going to rape her? I'm going to kill you. Why are you doing this? And he doesn't know her. He doesn't need to know her. I that i really do love that yeah i i i'm always like a little bit like the second i you know if a woman's being like rescued at the very top of a movie sometimes i'm like i don't know but what i really do like about that scene is that the conversation that takes

place afterwards where it's not implied in any way that she owes him something where he like asks her to hang. Right. That's okay. Yeah. She agrees. That's okay. Like I, you know,

where it's like, okay, we've seen, you know, at the top of the movie, the man saves the woman. But then I feel like it's very often implied. And now she is indebted to him and it will spend a lot of time in the movie

trying to, you know repay him and that was never implied in their relationship it was also like the first time the spark in his eye

for her started because he did the whole V V V V V in his monologue and what's her name and what's her name Evie and he says

of course it is of course it is you know it's great I love well because his whole theme is there are no coincidences, you know.

Right. Right. Everything is supposed to be. Only the illusion of coincidence. Yeah. It's linear. And I like that she has, she's just like, who is this fucking psychopath? Yeah.

And he was just like, oh, no, this is meant to be. This is kind of cool. Right. Question. Oh, sorry. Do you think that he workshopped that speech? Do you think he took it to open mics? A hundred percent. Do you think he practiced it? A hundred percent. He was so ready. He practiced sorry. Do you think that he workshopped that speech? Do you think he took it to open mics? 100%.

Do you think he practiced it? He practiced it. He was so ready. He was so ready for that moment. And that's another fun adaptation trope where it's like, that's such a poetic, every word in the dictionary that begins with V. He's like violin, viola, vermin, like, you know, he went through, there's a lot

of words he crossed out probably in the pursuit of, he was like, well, when I meet a girl that I like, I'm going to be so ready with the V speech. That's not even it. He was just like, when someone is worth talking to, I'm going to be able to unleash this. I've got a tight three minute speech. And he's been practicing it the way he practices his um what is it sword

fighting which i thought was very adorable it was charming watching that i was like you know what he's weird he's weird he likes to have fun he's still he's still childlike yeah the best people are still childlike and also i feel like just a general, this isn't even like a super gendered trope, but like just you see like very isolated, lonely characters. You don't very often see just weird shit that they do. Like, you know, when you're alone a lot and I can speak from personal experience, you do weird shit.

Yeah, totally. And like when someone's around, you're like, oh, wait, sorry, that's weird. Like I really enjoyed that moment. Because then when she walks in on him, he so embarrassed yeah he's like right oh god yeah it would have been so easy for him to be like and here's five more words that begin with v but he's sort of like oh sorry it's my favorite movie and uh do you want to watch it like it's super cute and then he recites the lines as he's watching it oh which is something i am so guilty

of i was very adorable yeah i was very charmed. It's adorable, yeah. I was very charmed by that. You find your own tree. Yeah. Yeah, I thought that that was cool. He even changed his voice to say the line. That's what was also cute. Yeah.

Yeah. I was very charmed by that scene. I watched it twice. It was cute. It's a good scene. Back to the, like, him saving her thing. I wasn't bothered by it as much because then you see her save him later on. Yes.

With what's that character's name? Dominic. One of the detectives is about to shoot him when they're in the BTN building and Evie taps him on the shoulder and then maces him, allowing V to get away. So she sort of returns. I mean, that's what I always liked.

And he always knew is there were equals. That's what I always liked about their romance is as soon as he met her and found out her name was evie he was like oh fuck yeah she's it she's my equal and not like she's the bitch i'm gonna fuck she's my equal yeah and that's why you know she she saves his life because he saved hers and it's like that's what you do you pay you pay a motherfucker back yeah okay so the next So the next thing that happens, and again, I'm just sort of like, I know like the movie is more nuanced than this. There's a lot more to take into consideration, but I'm sort of just boiling down like very basic plot points.

Sure. So the next thing that happened, so she goes with him to this quote unquote concert, the building explodes and it's clear that V had something to do with it. So the next day at work, she works at like a BBC adjacent, right? But it's like a bbc adjacent right but it's like a government controlled tv network it's fake news fake yeah fake news very fake news i love

just really quick i love the i forget what his title was but like the guy's tv shower oh my god which is like what a like again just fun futuristic production design that's like, who is this for? Like, I have 45 TVs that show the same channel in my shower. Yeah, but it's egomaniac wood, right? Yeah, that was like such a, and he would just turn around and it'd be four more TVs. Yeah, it was great. Oh, that scene was a little crazy to me because, so Evie's job is, you can sort of assume is like a PA because someone asks her to get like coffee. Right. But then she also somehow has the clearance to access that dude's like private office.

Yeah. That was wild. Because V uses her ID to like scan herself into that. And it's like she would not have that clearance. Yeah. Right. That's funny. It's fine.

We'll ignore that. Yeah. I was also going to say and I don't know if you ladies feel this but it's it's definitely different to watch in the trump era yeah this is actually a crazy movie to watch right now especially because i feel that this sort of like authoritarian government already sort of is happening or could like get much worse right in this movie any day and that was the thing i think when i first watched it when i was younger, I was like, this is possible.

I remember thinking that this is something that could happen if people don't speak up, if they don't. Cause when I was, I guess that's the other thing is when I was younger, when I was in my early twenties, I used to be so much more politically active. I would march with my,

with my friends and my, my friend, she used to organize marches and protests and now she's a civil rights lawyer. And I used to march with her and we would do all this shit and i remember like watching this movie and being like this is what could happen if we don't do anything and then now we're like in it so it's interesting to watch because people are now becoming informed i think through trump so i guess it's it's like guys we got to avoid this shit right here this is the shit we we're trying to avoid. Yeah. It didn't feel as, you know, alternative future as it should have. As it used to.

Yeah. Like, you know, five when it came out, like, you know, it feels like a possibility, but there weren't quite as many direct parallels you could make with that. Right. You know. Yeah. It is a very bizarre movie to watch, even just like with the way that the government treats its people, where that felt, I mean, I remember like when I first saw it felt way more cartoony than it does now.

And just, yeah, just waiting for that curfew to roll in. I mean, for me, it didn't feel cartoony in the past because my parents came from a third world government. Like, I've been informed about this shit. So for me, it was always like, this could happen. So for me, it was always, this could happen, this could happen. Now watching it, it's like, oh, this is happening. You know?

And going back, the fake news, that's what's happening. It's so weird to watch in a movie, in a theatrical sense, because you're like, this is how these conversations are happening within our own government right now. Not that it wasn't the same in the past i'm sure the government and the news were always working a little bit side by side but now it's like they're enemies because they're not all working together with the government and so it's like it's being exposed it's so weird oh man

yeah wow i mean i feel like trump has like taken down that fourth wall, you know? Yeah. And trying to build up another one between here and Mexico. Thanks, guys. I'm here for the jokes. Anyway. So the next thing that happens, he comes to the TV network. He plays his message to all the people. On the little tiny CD. Oh, yeah.

On the tiny CD. Yeah. And then she helps and saves him by macing the cop which i mentioned earlier he takes her and basically forces her to live with him for a year or that's the expectation at that point which we understand why he does that otherwise she would be in grave danger right or killed but it's also like the thing where it's like you are my prisoner sort of. It's it's again, it's not to keep pulling it back to Phantom of the Opera. But I mean, it's like a more justified high stakes version of that story where it's like it is for her safety. But there's.

But he also gives her the option. It's true. Like, yeah, you can leave. Right. Which eventually she does. Yeah. He says, you can leave. Right. Which eventually she does. Yeah, and she does. I don't know. Their relationship is something that it's just like there were some points where I was like, okay, I get it.

And then other points where I was like, this does not bode well. I don't know. Right. Well, I was going to say before we get into this, I was going to bring up the plan, the the year in advance protest whatever you want to call it i just found it funny because when um rose mcgowan did the women boycott twitter thing i was like that's why it didn't work because the bitch didn't plan the shit out right like a good protest or a good boycott you need to let everybody know you need to like set a date you need to all agree that it's happening there needs to be some build buildup so that there are some consequences that are severe.

Because wasn't that like a next date? I found out in the middle of when it was supposed to be happening. That's why it was so stupid. I mean, I was like, listen, bitch, if you would have planned this like next week, I'm getting off Twitter for a week. Then we could have all had that discussion. Women of color could have been like, what the fuck are you talking about? You know, we could have had those arguments with each other there's discussions with each other um so i i love that he's like in a year motherfuckers yeah i'm ride or die for this shit are you i'm bunkering

down till it happens yeah i love i love that i and i love that you know the timeline of of the movie it just everybody's you know it's the fall. It's the winter, whatever. And it builds well. It builds very well. Yeah. So the next thing that happens is that she essentially tricks him into thinking that she wants to help. And whether or not she actually wants to help may be the case. But she sort of uses it as a way to try to escape, which is what happens. Right. Where she's like, I want to help if there's anything I can do.

He's like, actually, you can dress up as a sex worker and trick this. And this is one of those moments where it's like, surely there was another way to do that. But she, yeah. So she then goes to this bishop who's one of the people that V is targeting to kill. And then she's all like, help me. I need protection. I'm Evie Hammond. I'm a prisoner of this terrorist.

The bishop doesn't believe her. He just proceeds with assaulting her. Trying to rape her. Yeah. And then V comes in and kills him. I actually like that scene because I love that men are so perverted and fucked up that women can use their sexuality against them. Because men are weak yeah and i wish that more women knew how to manipulate that and into our favor you know which is why i like

them working side by side to kind of take advantage of this man's weakness of you know wanting to fuck kids and then they use it against him and then he kills him yeah which is great yeah because i think sex workers should be looked at as heroes in our society because they are doing the lord's work because men are pieces of shit um not all men hashtag whatever fuck off um but so many men are aristotle's really nice everyone else aristotle he can stay he can say everyone else everyone else has to i just i just think that sex workers are are looked down upon and I love that they kind of flipped it on its head of like, no, they're going to use

this against him. And it is his inevitable downfall and it's because men are weak. I was feeling hard for Evie in that scene because for a large chunk of the movie and towards the end, she's able to, you know, she has agency

more in a way where she has more options but for for a lot of the movie it's very survival-based decisions that she has to make of like this is what i have to do to stay on this person's good side so that i can remain safe or this is what i have to do so i can remain alive or whatever so like there's so much going on in that scene of like she has i don't know if i do we we don't see that discussion of like the plan of we don't see right so we don't know whose idea it is or like or anything like that maybe that's in the book i don't remember but like we see her do that and it's like okay this was someone's idea we don't know whose idea

it was it could have been evie's idea but then you know once she's in that interaction with the bishop she's placed a fair amount of trust in his authority to help her out and get her free of someone she's not yet quite sure about and then that backfires and he's a fucking lecherous evil creep right and then he's killed rightfully so but then now she's suddenly faced with this new dynamic of like now v knows that she doesn't really trust him. Right. And she just is like, I'm sorry. And like leaves.

And it's like I just that whole scene was so stressful to watch. But it's just like she's just making all these survival based decisions of like, OK, that happened now. What do I do to remain safe? Yeah. But that scene is good because it's a reminder to people that they shouldn't trust people that are in power. Absolutely. Just because they're in power.

That's why I like that scene, because I like that she puts faith in this bishop, because I think we all would think that would be the thing to do in that moment. A figure she would be able to trust. And then once you realize that's a mistake, she runs because she's like, well, now who do i trust you know and i and i do to your point i do like that she's always making these like last minute decisions but they keep kind of exposing who the real weak people are in our society right well which is why it like kind of hits for me that she does end up trusting v

by the i mean and there are other points that we'll get to, but it is sort of time and time again where we see her testing everything she's been taught, and that is unraveling, and really the only consistent anything is V wanting to keep her safe. Well, he's trying to make her strong. I mean, that's what she says, and that when she's first captured, it's like, I wish I was stronger, I wish trying to make her strong. I mean, that's what she says when she's first captured.

It's like, I wish I was stronger. I wish I wasn't so weak. And you see his, you know, there's a shot of him where he kind of like cocks his head like, oh, you do, do you? You want to be stronger? I can make you stronger. A lot of head cock acting. There's a lot of head cock acting. What else did he do?

What's so funny about that movie is there's like these long monologues and it's just a mask and you're like, am I really just watching a mask right now? Like, yeah, no emotion. It's all in the voice. It's so awkward. But I do. I like that.

He just he sees that and he almost like accepts the challenge of like, bitch, I will make you the strongest. Yeah, I will make you as strong as I am. And we are because at first you're like, OK, is she just saying that to get on his good side so that he'll trust him enough for her to be able to leverage that into running away? But then you also understand why she could very well want that. Because her sort of like main driving desire in this movie ends up being like, I do want to be stronger. I do want to be strong enough to rise up and tear down this regime, basically. Well, and like learning about her background later on in the movie, too. Yeah, that's what I'm saying.

What her parents did and stuff. Yeah, because her parents were political activists and her brother was killed in the St. Mary's virus outbreak, which is one of the things that the government unleashed on its own population to control its people. Compelling reasons for her to actually want that are established. Right. I mean, I think her journey in this movie is a lesson in impulsiveness.

Because even after she saves him and spray paints Dominic, the next morning she's like, I don't know why I did that. I can't believe I did that. I don't know why I did that. Like, she's questioning the thing that she impulsively did. But it was the right thing to do. Right. You know, for her to save him. But she's constantly doubting herself and questioning herself because she's not thinking things through all the way.

Because then he says, like, is that what you think or is that what they want you to think? And that's that whole journey for her throughout the whole movie until, you know, it gets to where it gets. Which is a compelling journey that we don't often see women go through in movies.

No. So that's cool. Because that's the thing. She's not making decisions based on her feelings for him. She's making decisions based on what she thinks she wants or doesn't want or what's right or what's wrong for her. That's what she's doing. Right.

And in a lot of ways, I feel like she's for so long, she is making a lot of instinctive survival based instincts. And then by the end, she has more agency to the point where like V literally puts the agency in her hands of like, you decide whether this happens or not because it's like, you know, the student is ready. And I like that because by the end she genuinely does have a choice and we see for most of the movie her not

really having much of a choice. But she does have a choice. That's the thing. She always had a choice. It's just that she didn't always think things through. That's why I like her story. Right. She constantly had to make a decision. And sometimes it was on a whim. fear-based decision making too where i don't think i mean i don't remember specifically but i don't think when i first saw this movie i could as closely identify with like you know it's like why would she have this job at the not bbc working for the people who are oppressing her and everyone

she knows but then you know when you have more of a real life applicable way it's like oh because she's afraid like look at all these people she's lost for these exact reasons and it does take a lot of inner strength to be able to you know make a an anarchic decision right so um okay so now we're leading up to the part where she goes to gordon dietrich's house gordon dietrich is a friend of hers and who hosts like weird pratfall British SNL, like Benny Hill style satire show. What a weird, fun scene in the middle of that movie to watch that goofy, goofy broadcast that gets him murdered. Yeah.

Wild. Well, then that leads to what I find to be the most unsettling part of the movie. So she goes to Gordon Dietrich's house. She's under his care and protection for a while. Stephen Fry. Stephen Fry. Yes. He makes that episode. Which is crazy.

Yeah, I know. Yeah. It was cool that he was defiant. He's like, yeah, we threw out the censor-proof script, shot this one. It gets him killed. Well, the Quran gets him killed. It gets him black-bagged by Creedy, and then, yeah, they find a Quran in his house,

and that gets him executed. And we also know he is one of, I believe, two queer characters whose stories we hear referenced in this movie, too. Yeah, that's the other thing. This is one of the first movies that we've discussed on this podcast where there's a prominent character in the movie who is queer. Well, two, kind of.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Valerie, who we meet a little later. So, yeah. Yay. So once Dietrich gets captured by Creedy, she has to flee again. And then she gets captured almost immediately. And we assume that it's also by Creedy's people. She's in prison.

She's locked in a cell. All of her hair gets shaven off. Baldest woman. Loft as test. The baldest woman rule. Yep. Baldest woman is in charge. The balder you get, the more empowered you get in movies, usually.

It's the rule. Yes. Anyway, so she gets captured. She's in prison. She's tortured. We think it's from Creedy and all of those guys. And in this process of her being imprisoned, she loses her fear. She's like, you know what?

I'm not going to be an informant. I'm not going to tell you where V is. You can fuck off and shoot me behind a chemical shed. And she learns Valerie's story while in prison. Right. Who we learn is a character that was in the cell next to V all those years ago when he was imprisoned and being used for these like biological experiments. Right. That's also another moment I bugged me because she was like, I'm writing this note on toilet paper.

And I'm like, bitch, that's just regular paper. Right. What is toilet paper in that world like where you can write on it? Parchment? I know. It's like you're wiping your ass with really nice parchment. That was one of those moments where she can use her ID to get anywhere. I'm like, all right, that's a stretch.

But then I sort of like, then I was like, now I'm like, Evie, you're dumb because that's just a flaw in V's plan of he had parchment. And he's like, did you really think that parchment is toilet paper? And where did she get a pen? Not discussed. Yeah. Nice pen. Great handwriting. Well, it was a pencil, right?

Yeah, maybe she made one. Either way, that was funny. Yeah, that was funny. Yeah. I'm glad we all agree on that. So once she is devoid of fear, she gets let free. And then she comes into the room, into V's house. Literally and figuratively, she's set free.

Yes. And then, yeah, that scene where V was like, it was me the whole time. And it was like, real high-level gaslighting. Way to commit to gaslighting. Yeah. Again, it's hard because it's like, you can look at that one level of like, yeah, that's high-level psychological abuse. On the other end, if we're looking at like the student-teacher relationship in the direst of times, I don't know.

I mean, I am sort of left floating in the wind on that one. Because it worked. It worked. It worked. But did the ends justify the means? But I mean, there's also, there's something to be said about, I mean, the government killed her whole family. And that is fucked up. And she didn't take it as the government doing it to her.

She took it as just like, well, I guess I got to be scared. Just like everybody else. Right. So she didn't become stronger after that happened even though i think she should have right and on the flip v is like no i'm going to do this to you to make you stronger because you are strong and right that's i mean like i said you guys can throw anything you want at me and make it work but i mean that's the thing is that going back to that the quote of like people shouldn't be scared of their governments their government should be scared of our people

because that's that yeah it's a flip on that you know it's it's him kind of exposing like you you should have changed after your parents were murdered and your brother was murdered but she got more scared right and it shouldn't be because she a should know like you're gonna die one day so you should be strong no matter what and so he just kind of tortured her to be like basically if your government because that's the illusion right the government is doing this to her right and she finally can stand up to them as before she couldn't and then of course to find out it's him it's a total mind fuck for everybody right and we do see her she has an appropriate

reaction yeah yeah because she was just like oh good, good one. Like, that would be fucking crazy. You got me. Well, and this got me back to thinking about the other kind of popular examples of the captor re-educating the captive for whatever reason. And this is, again, like a movie where in most situations we see a captor holding someone hostage and changing their way of thinking, but usually pretty much for selfish reasons, pretty much for like, I want you to love me, so I'm going to keep you in a room until you do. Where this, it's far more complicated. It's for the greater good.

And personally, I think that this movie and story would work for me if there wasn't a love story. There is, and that's fine too but like if this ended up being like the sort of like and these two characters just have like an inseparable very intense bond that works for me too but either way he's not holding her to make her fall in love with him and i think that that's the most common male captor holding a woman. And so... A la Beauty and the Beast. Right.

Phantom? Phantom of the Opera, yeah. So it's a similar situation, but the end goal is very different where he's trying to, I guess, more or less cure her of her own fear. And so in that way, even though it looks similar, the end goal is not really selfish. And so it... Well, I mean, it is his revolution that he's trying to start. So it is like a smidge selfish. But also she has every reason to want to be a part of this revolution.

She's a good pick. Based on her past. Yeah. It's tricky. it's tricky. And I mean, when you see the world that they live in, of course you'd want to tear that down and not live in that regime. So

the stakes are high and it does stand to reason why all these characters would want to dismantle this horrible government. And not to just say, hey, here's a thing that this movie could have done wrong but didn't but there's like a lot of i feel like easy bad writing things that could have been in here in terms of like maybe there's another guy that's very common in like

these capture situations where there's a guy on the other side who's like fighting to try and find her and save her yeah and she doesn't have that like Like she has whoever mumbly grumbly British police guy that she ends up with is, but he's not trying to help her. He's not trying to save her. Right. Like there isn't anyone trying to save her really. And you can even argue V's not really trying to save her as much as get her to where he thinks she needs to be. Well, where she wants to be.

She says it. Right. She says that. Right. But it's tricky. I mean, he is sneaky about how he goes about it. You kind of have to. It's tricky. You can't just tell someone be stronger.

Fight the government. You have to imprison them for a few weeks first. But do you have to? That's the question. You don't have to. Was there another way? Maybe not. But like. He just knew through his experience it worked for him.

Right. That was it. Like that's all he has to go on. Yeah. Yeah. It's true. Because in some ways you do see him kind of sculpting her in his vision based on his own past.

Right. And again, it's like dire times but i mean he knows how like painful and right you know like he is actively making that choice to cause someone he cares about pain and that is something that i mean i don't know it's open to interpretation right yeah because he says something like um you don't understand how hard that was for me to do but every time i saw you resist like i knew i had to keep going. She was on the brink, and then he just had to push it a little bit further.

A little sadistic. It is, and it is very gaslight-y. That's the most elaborate gaslighting we've ever seen. Who's funding him? Because he's playing all these different characters, he's got all these different costumes, he's changing his voice around. Who's donating to his Patreon?

Everyone, apparently. V is buying Dominos. He has all those masks. He has the resources to some... He said something like he clears the tracks and lays more of it. He lays subway tracks to... Ten years. Yeah. Where is he getting his wealth? That's what I

want to know. That's another weird trope with this setup though, of like the captor somehow has unlimited resources. They always live in a castle. They live in something. Some, some like subterranean palace. And they're like, I have a lot of money.

Don't ask. It's going to look nice. The lighting is going to be low. It's going to be nice. I have a TV, but I also have candles evie's room is kind of a library she's surrounded by all those books and bell and beauty and the beast loved the library there's a lot of symmetry here you guys there's a lot i was gonna say too going

back to um you mentioned that you didn't like that there was like a romance storyline and you could have done without it so yeah yeah my civil rights lawyer friend when i taught i was like oh i look because i think i was had the book or i had the mask or something in my room and she saw it and she's like oh do you like the movie i was like oh i love that movie i was like you don't like as a political activist like you don't like this movie she was like it's a good movie she's like except for him torturing her like for love i have too much experience with that within civil rights organizers she's like the men are like that. We're like, they torture you and torture you. Interesting. And they're really fucked.

Like, of course, the men in, you know, activism are fucked up, too. But she was like, there's too many parallels in my real life of like, you think that these men are like doing the right thing. But, you know, when it comes to the women, they're not. So when she told me and she told me this like a few weeks ago. Yeah. So I was like, I watched it differently a little bit with that in mind of like, damn, I didn't think about it as torturing for her love. Right. You know, and I it's yeah, I don't know. I mean, that's super interesting to hear. I mean, and unfortunate that those dynamics exist even in like the most noble of professions.

Of course. Of course. But there are still people. People are still people. People will still be fucking up no matter what their living is. But yeah, I don't know. Like, I think that adding in the love story like it isn't out of nowhere. It makes sense.

Right. That, you know, like he is at the end, even though he's representing this idea, he is a person. And that's, I feel like what the opening and closing lines of this movie speak to where she's like, it's basically the man behind it. Like the individual affected. You can't kiss an idea, but you can kiss a man and a man is who I miss. Right. Which I was, I was like rolling my eyes a little bit. I don't know. I have kissed an

idea before yeah i've had i've had people kiss me because i'm an idea to them so that's what's been that's what's been frustrating yeah oh yeah and then and then when that wears off and you're like i'm a person they're just like oh actually cannot yeah exactly if you're a person i have to leave and it's like oh great see you exactly oh I'm going to have a t-shirt. Anyways. I did want to mention the Shawshank Redemption moment in this movie where she goes out into the rain and she puts her hands up. And she's like, ah, I'm free. Super silly 2005 CGI rain shot.

Like a bloop. It was super, super silly silly that was a great sound effect it's a little foley work in the middle but you see you're like the vantage point of the rain falling on natalie portman's face sure great love it and then he's standing there with his arms folded like fuck yeah it's raining you know it's cool uh the the love story it just you know like you get you can draw the parallel to their very obvious age difference just based on their discussions of he's clearly significantly older than her and also like i don't know those were just like the parts of the movie that interested me the least where that scene where it's like i

know that we have to as an audience have to be kept in like oh but he's also an individual so that scene where you know you see the mask be thrown off and he's like oh oh he punches the mirror right very phantom of the opera punching a mirror peak phantom of the opera i don't know i think i would have enjoyed watching her fuck his burn dick. That would have been What was going on? Like, I'm raw dogging that shit. Are you crazy? I was wondering about

That would have been some freak nasty shit. That's what I was waiting for the whole time. There's a few different scenes where I'm like, he's like wearing a rope, like a rope,

where like in theory, if he had an erection, you'd probably be able to tell. Can we see that shot? We can't. We can't? Are we done?

I really wanted to see that burn meat, you know we should watch the uh the uncensored oh my god oh also this is uh written by the god who the matrix the waltz oh the wachowskis and the last the last fight scene was another one where i was like jesus christ where there's a few matrixy shots of like a fring, and you're just like, okay, calm down. We get it. We saw the movie.

In 2005, that was the coolest thing I'd ever seen. But you saw it in the Matrix in 99. It's a little different. But yeah, I remember I was in the theater. I think I saw this with JT, and we just like looked at each other, and we're like, this is the best movie I've ever seen. I dated a guy once

he goes what's your favorite movie I said V for Vendetta and I said what's your favorite movie he said The Matrix and I was like oh I've never seen it

and he goes well just so you know V for Vendetta is the woman version of The Matrix and that's what I mean by that he's a fucking asshole that's what he meant by that

yeah that's like in that way and then I just recently watched The Matrix for the first time and I was like what that doesn't make this doesn't make then I just recently watched The Matrix for the first time. And I was like, what? That doesn't make sense.

I just dated an asshole like I always do. That doesn't check out at all. No, it doesn't check out at all. And I couldn't argue because I hadn't watched it. You didn't know. Yeah. And I was like, oh, my God. And it took me down a notch.

And I was like, oh, no, I'm just another girl. And I was like, oh, no, he's just another dickhead. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, if you're listening, fuck right off. You were dead wrong. Oh no, he's our biggest fan. Oh no! Can we talk about some of the other female characters?

Yeah. And by that I mean there are very few. One of them is the coroner. Oh yeah. Yes. I like her. She's a woman in STEM. She is a woman in stem she is a woman in stem and she's the only one of the

people that v goes after who shows any sort of like compassion and regret and sorrow for what she did all the other ones and receives the same in return which i thought was yeah nice where she does not die the painful death that most yeah she has to die and like i get, she has to die. And like, I get like, she has to die. Right. According to the plan. But he kind of cuts her a break where he's like, just so you know, you're basically dead. Yeah. And she's like,

oh, that didn't hurt at all. Thank you. Thank you so much. I'm sorry. Yeah. Scene. I liked that.

I thought that was like responsibly done. That was cool. Same. And then the other notable female character is Valerie. She's only ever met in flashbacks. Yeah. But she's the person who is in the cell next to V whenever he was imprisoned in Lark Hill. We learn of her story.

She is a lesbian. She came out to her parents. They disowned her. She started a career as an actress. She met, like, the love of her life. And then it was around that time that the government started targeting LGBT people, Muslims, basically detaining them for just being who they are. Basically Trump. Right.

And even prior to that being that high stakes of a situation, she was disowned by her own family. Yeah. that high stakes of a situation she was disowned by her own family yeah and and still was unapologetic about who she was which was like so cool and also heartbreaking to see the consequences of it yeah yeah totally but those are like the two main female characters besides evie yeah and then i was like oh why aren't there more women in this movie and then i thought about it and i was like okay well most of the people in this movie are either government officials or law enforcement right right because that's what the story calls for and none of those people would probably be women because this is a society where they wouldn't hire women almost by design yeah yeah there are certainly opportunities for more speaking female role at least but then

when we see those like long mont montages of when V is on screen on TV or even when people are watching Stephen Fry's Goofy thing, we see I mean, there's women in homes, there's women in bars. There's the little girl with the glasses. So cute. I love her.

So they are present in the society. They're just almost never in positions of power which makes sense with this. Normally that would bother us, I think, in a movie. But in this movie, that's just... Kind of integral to the story. Right. Yeah.

There's no Ivanka Trumps. The two female characters that we see, in detail at least, who are not Evie, I feel like almost offer the two paths that Evie could end up on where it's like the woman who does end up getting pretty high up in government or in her field in medicine but with a past that's like she's like i thought about killing myself she changed her name she tried to flee the country like she was scared guilty right she was guilty but then also

scared like you were saying like she succumbed to the fear and then just stopped. I mean, that was the reason she continued to work. Because she was like, what else am I going to do? Are they going to kill me? Or am I going to have to live in anonymity? Right. Why would she do that? It's also, of course the women are compassionate. I would say most women are.

Not all women, hashtag. I mean, Betsy DeVos, whateversy debo you know what i mean like those women definitely exist when they're tempted with power but i think more often than not it's just it's not as common as it is with men in power sure yeah it was it was cool to you know first see that this woman who rose very high in her field but dies with regrets because she didn't stand up for the right thing and then valerie who always stands up for the right thing. And then Valerie, who always stands up for the right thing

and is punished and basically killed for it. Yeah. That's a great point. Yeah, it's a great point. I didn't think about that. You're so smart. Thanks, gang.

That was very nice. No, but I mean... A moment of silence for Jamie is brilliant. But that scene between V and... I'm sorry, what was the doctor's name? Oh, the coroner. The coroner is... for Jamie's brilliance there. But that scene between V and, I'm sorry, what was the doctor's name? Oh, the coroner.

The coroner. She has a name, though. Delia Surridge. Oh, yeah, Delia. That moment between them seemed, I mean, and for V, who's generally pretty violent towards people who fucked with him,

it was like a good character moment for him, too, because you're just like, what's that line where she's just like is it too late to say sorry and he's like no you can do it she actually sings that song isn't too late to apologize is it too late now to say sorry

that's what goes through my head we're two very different people Caitlin she just does a quick mash up and V's like cool here's a flower goodbye yeah I do like that I do like that she apologizes She just does a quick mashup and be like, cool, here's a flower. Goodbye. Yeah, I do like that. I do like that she apologizes and I do like that he is open to it. I mean, I think people should be.

Yeah, absolutely. If you're trying to grow and contribute to the greater good of society. And I think he's like giving her a gift there, too, where it's like, you know, she's dying with regret but it's probably when you're dying with all that regret useful to be able to at least express that to someone

who you've wronged. Right. And it's also sweet that he's using her flowers. Yeah. He's like, I've been growing your flowers. I love your flowers.

I think your flowers are great. I think that you were capable of being something better as a botanist. Also, her diary that she deliberately gets out and leaves behind so that someone will find it,

and luckily it falls into the hands of... She wanted V to have it. But he leaves it. Because he doesn't care. He doesn't care about the story. But then Finch gets a hold of it, and then he's a party member. He's right under Suttler,

but you can tell throughout the movie he's questioning all these things about the government. He's having my favorite movie, Doubt. He's having some doubt. Shout out to Doubt. That's honestly the worst podcast I've ever done. No. No.

I'm sorry, go ahead. So he gets a hold of it. He learns all this information that I think informs his doubt. And then by the end, he's totally on. I mean, he like holds a gun on Evie. But then he's like, yeah, you're right. We should go up this building. So like if I think it weren't for that, he wouldn't be so on the right side of the revolution.

Yeah. I mean, I definitely like that he read it and was like, oh shit, this is what happened. These fucking, this government is fucked up. Like he's starting to see, like he works for the police, but, and I do like that because it is possible for people

to have the right perspective in these situations if you're informed and if you have faith and believe. But yeah, it was, I like that. I like that it did change his mind. Because he was always teetering. That's where the curiosity was coming from. He was like, this doesn't make sense. Why the fuck would this A, B, and C be leading to this?

And then he starts getting these answers. And he was like, oh, man. And that's why him and Evie end up together. Because she fucking fills him in and he's like, oh yeah. And she fucks his dick. His unburnt dick. So like, what's the point? That's what I always say.

The dick ain't burnt, but my pussy ain't turnt. Oh gosh. Put it on a t-shirt. Into it. A V for Vendetta shirt. The dick ain't burnt, my pussy ain't turnt. And then just a Guy Fawkes mask. into it. A V for Vendetta shirt. A dick anchor. A boozy anchor. And then just a Guy Fawkes mask.

He has a tongue hanging out. All right. Back on track. He and V have the same outlook on coincidence, though, where there is no such thing as coincidence, only the illusion of coincidence. Which I love.

That actually, going back to there are no coincidences, my dad's funeral being on November 5th, after the fact, it opened my eyes because it wasn't until my dad passed away that I actually believed that. It wasn't until he passed away that everything kind of led up to him passing away

and my life made more sense, not just the future, but also the past. So then when I rewatched the movie, I was like, oh, fuck, it's true for me. And even though I didn't really believe that when I first watched the movie, it definitely changed. And then I was like, yeah, of course his funeral is on November 5th because there are no coincidences. And for me, it definitely rang true, like even more so now than it did in the past. I think, and I, and that almost feels like a more like, I don't know, like that seems like a more optimistic because to me,

like saying that there is no coincidence just opens everything to chaos at all. There's no order where I feel like, yeah, where it's like V is this anarchist figure, but he also doesn't think that there's no, so there is some sort of greater something at work right which is nice and and feels optimistic romantic yeah yeah it is that's the real romance it's a little hot i remember seeing the movie for the first time and seeing the kiss which when she

kissed the first kiss yeah and i was like what a weird choice for that to happen and now I'm like I get it now I understand a lot of you guys I don't need it, but I get it I mean, listen, I've kissed a lot of dudes who are dead inside, so I get it too like emotionally burn victims

that's what it was like I've done that yeah, I'm into emotional burn victims. Pretty chill. I think that it's weird because there is like a lot of gendered stuff in this movie and a lot to talk about. But it's almost overshadowed by the political nature of the story. Right. And so it was like, I don't know.

This was like a really interesting, challenging thing to watch. Similar to how, like, when we talked about Get Out, which is like not a movie that necessarily treats women well, but that's okay because... What is the real focus of the movie. Right. Yeah. So, yeah, I have a lot of complicated feelings about V for Vendetta

because, you know, you can sort of boil things down to like, he imprisons her, he tortures her, he gaslights her, da da da. But that's a little too oversimplification. It is. Right. So it is a very interesting movie to discuss. So, Marcella, thank you for bringing it to us. Oh, it's my pleasure. Let's discuss whether or not it passes the Bechdel test.

It does? Does it? It was like, it sort of, there's one exchange where you're like, close. Right. There is a scene where a woman whose name we don't ever find out, so that right away does not pass the Bechdel test, but she does talk to Evie. They're watching sort of the news coverage, the fabricated news coverage of the blowing up of the Bailey on TV. And she's like, do you believe that load of bollocks?

There was no bloody demolition. I saw it. Did you see it? And Evie's like, no, last night I was like, she's like, oh, that's right. You went to see Daddy Dietrich. Do you like my British accent, you guys? I love it.

So they talk about a man, like, after three lines, and we don't know her name, so that does not pass. But then a woman comes in and she's like, Evie, there you are. You are still working for me, aren't you? Sorry, Patricia. So we know her name. And then Patricia says, I need two espressos and three coffees

from downstairs, and Dietrich is ready for his tea. I would say that's... Even though Dietrich comes in at the end, those first two lines where I thought I was going to pass and I was looking forward to being like, this is a fun one. But because I didn't remember, I thought that Evie may have written back to Valerie and that would have been like where it wasn't a vocal exchange.

I was like, that would've been cool. But she doesn oh yeah no she doesn't where's she gonna get parchment yeah to wipe her ass with you know so there's another scene right after that where two women talk again Evie talks to the costume woman and she like brings in all those boxes that have the masks oh right right yeah and costume ladies like what's all that? And he was like, not sure. They've just arrived. Mark for stage three. And Costume Lady's like, must be Prothero. So again, she brings up a man.

And then she's like, I wish someone had the balls to tell him this station ain't his playground. And then she opens the box. She's like, what's all this then? Very British. Real quick question. Is Natalie Portman's accent bad or good i think not very good not good right i don't know there's i i sort of kept forgetting because there were points in the movie i'm like

oh yeah everyone in this movie's british including natalie portman i sort of forgot well v's voice too kind of there were certain points where I'm like don't Arjun have a thicker accent which is weird because he is British and it still sounds weird he's just all over the place who's what's the name of the actor

who plays V in this movie he's like in the Lord of the Rings movie yeah he's also in The Matrix he plays Agent Smith he's a Wachowski fave so

whether or not the movie passes the Bechdel test I guess for like a second whenever Patricia comes in and she's like, you are still working for me, aren't you? And she says, sorry. I want to give it to them. I like technically I think it's a no, but I want but just for the sake of I don't think that this movie is like bad for womankind. I want to give it a pass. I don't know. This isn't

precise. Yeah. Let's just say it does for a split second, which I think is accurate. Does the Bechdel test have a time? Some. I think some variations of it say it has to happen for this amount of time. Technically, it's

two lines of dialogue between two female characters with names. Which, again, is a very low bar. Right. And I think under that rule, it passes. And it's the third line of dialogue where they start talking about a guy. Right. Still not great.

But I'm going to give it a pass. I want to give it a pass. Yeah. I think it's okay. I think it legit passes under our rules. So, there we go. You just get by, V for Venetta. Good going.

So let's rate the movie on our nipple scale, where we rate the movie on its portrayal of women on a scale of zero to five nipples. We got some burnt nipples in the game this time. Five crispy nipples. These nipples are very scorched. I'm going to give it, ooh, this is real tough for me. Because I still don't really know how I feel about how he treats her by imprisoning her and gaslighting her and torturing her as a means to an end.

I mean, free room and board would be nice. True, no rent a year. He was cooking for her. He was sweet to her. Did her roommate, first of all, if she has a roommate, did they just get a subletter? I think she... It seemed like she lived in a studio.

I feel like she lived alone. That's what it felt like. Oh, God. Is it a three? I don't know. I have ooh, is it like, is it a three? I don't know. I have no idea how to rate this movie. I was going to say like a four.

I was going to say three and a half. I don't know. I mean, ultimately an arbitrary system. Right. No, this is important. I'll jump to that. I'll say three and a half. Okay.

Tricky movie where we see a lot of women, we don't hear a lot of women, but that's also the exact nature of the government being portrayed in regards to women. It's tricky. I think that in Evie, we have a really awesome, challenging, thoughtful protagonist. I mean, the few women that are in all have depth. Right, right. And they're all given, I think, like a fair amount of thought by the story. And their past and thoughts have action and implications on the story. And, I mean, I think we have three very strong female characters in this movie.

And two strong gay characters. True, yeah. Very white movie. Extremely white. Like, that last scene where everyone's taking off their masks and it's white people it's just like that's every movie that's especially up until 2005 yeah i mean but can the same apply when we were like oh women wouldn't be in positions of i feel like a country like this under this sort

of regime would have tried to push out people of color. Absolutely. They say it. Muslims are getting pushed out. I mean, that's what, I mean, and I think that's part of why, like, that was the thing when I watched movies and television as I was growing up and as a teen, it was like, I actively stopped watching things that were too white unless they made

sense. And this is one of those movies where I was like, it makes sense. And also the women were all very interesting. They were, yeah. I think that it's good. And I agree with what you're saying of some of the stuff, some of the dynamics between V and Evie are not

easy to watch and are subjective and challenging and I think will affect different people in different ways. I can imagine if you've been in a really gaslighting, abusive relationship and you're watching that, that would be like, ah! Right. nippies. I'll give two scorched nippies. Back to V. Rest in Paradise, baby. I'll give a nipple to Natalie and then I'll give my last half nippy to

Valerie. She was cool. Alright, I'm going to go with a three. And I'm surprised by this because I still love this movie and I you know, like I said, I loved it some time ago to the point where I was like I should get a tattoo about it. It's not too late. There's a tattoo parlor in our store.

But rewatching it through this sort of new lens, I was like, oh, wow, there's a lot of weird stuff that happens to this female character. And it does feel like she doesn't have all that much agency, especially toward the beginning of the movie and later on she does to the extent where she's the one who literally pulls the trigger on the train that ends up blowing up the house of the parliament super satisfying to watch yeah oh my god yeah those the music and the explosion i was like yeah but um at the same time we do have a very complex female character who goes on sort of this incredible arc that women are often aren't afforded in movies yeah so that was really cool to watch so yeah i'm gonna stick with a three and my nipples belong to dietrich stephen fry two of them specifically in that scene in the movie so many like takes of him going uh what

like he does not have a huge part in that scene either which is really funny I'm sorry I'll give the other one to Finch because I like his character arc as well I don't know actually I guess I'd have to give a nipple

to each woman so three yeah so three yeah Natalie and the Valerie I don't know, actually. I guess I'd have to give a nipple to each woman. Okay. So three? Yeah, so three. Natalie. And the coroner. Yeah, and the coroner.

Yeah. I love that character named the coroner. Yeah. Great. Cool. Well, Marcello, thank you so much. Thanks for having me. Yay. This was a tough one in a good way.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. What discourse we've had here today. Wow, gang. Some good midday discourse. I think it's an important movie especially now i encourage people to watch it absolutely um i think that not enough people have believed that their governments are corrupt as deeply as they are and that they can get worse i mean it's it's happening to us right now um they've always been corrupt but yeah this

movie is kind of more relevant now than ever it totally is it's it mean, for the United States, yes, it's interesting to watch. And I also like that the United States gets a shout out in the beginning of the movie. Yeah. We didn't talk about that. Well, yeah, where the U.S. is having a civil war. Yes, a second civil war. They call it the former United States. Like, yeah, this country.

Which was, to me, I was like, oh, my God, this is right now. That was like in that like newscast segment. Because like when it came out, I would have I would have been like, oh, that's silly. That's not possible. And now I'm like, no, that's it's it's on its way. And it was still like W. Bush era when this movie came out. Yeah. But we weren't we weren't divided like like we are now.

I mean, that's why United We Stand was so popular because everybody was like, yeah is true we should stand united now it's like no division is in right yeah and the the the like slogan of the uk in fever vendetta is strength through unity unity through faith either way i think a lot of a lot of buzzwords no thought being encouraged right yeah yeah alan moore is somewhere right now just like rubbing his hands together like, I told you so. And you got us. You got us good. You were right. Oh, gosh.

Well, yes. He's coming in his not royalties. Yeah. Thank you so much again for being here. Thanks for having me. I appreciate it. Where can people follow you online? At MarcellaComedy.com.

That's all of my social media. Marcella 2Ls. So hit me up. Holler at a bitchlla comedy.com that's all my social media marcella two l's so hit me up holler at a bitch whoo awesome you can follow us at bechtel cast on instagram twitter facebook bechtel cast.com hey we've got a patreon yeah donate to that you can donate to that um if you can five dollars a month gets you two bonus episodes a month and if you're like actually i can't commit to that right now but i still want to help you out you can throw a tip in our tip And if you're like, actually, I can't commit to that right now, but I still want to help you out, you can throw a tip in our tip jar. If you go to Bechdelcast.com slash support,

you can just throw us a couple bucks, whatever you want. So many options. So many websites. Great. What a time to be alive. What a time. Just kidding. We're living in the worst of times. What a time to be dead. What a time to look forward to death. Shout out to Flatliners. Today is a good day to die.

Always got to send a shout out. Thanks for listening. Bye. Daphne Caruana Galizia was a Maltese investigative journalist who on October 16th, 2017, was assassinated. Crooks everywhere unearths the plot to murder a one-woman WikiLeaks. She exposed the culture of crime and corruption that were turning her beloved country into a mafia state. Listen to Crooks Everywhere on the iHeartRadio app,

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