The Bechdel Cast - Wild Things with Princess Weekes

Episode Date: September 1, 2022

Wild Jamie, Wild Caitlin, and Special Wild Guest Princess Weekes plot and scheme and discuss Wild Things. (This episode contains spoilers) For Bechdel bonuses, sign up for our Patreon at patreon.com/bechdelcast Follow @WeekesPrincess on Twitter. While you're there, you should also follow @BechdelCast, @caitlindurante, and @jamieloftusHELPSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Daphne Caruana Galizia was a Maltese investigative journalist who on October 16th 2017 was assassinated. Crooks Everywhere unearthed the plot to murder a one-woman WikiLeaks. She exposed the culture of crime and corruption that were turning her beloved country into a mafia state. Listen to Crooks Everywhere on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. To listen to new episodes one week early and 100% ad-free, subscribe to the iHeart True Crime Plus channel, available exclusively on Apple Podcasts. Hey, I'm Jay Shetty and I'm the host of On Purpose. This week, I had the opportunity to speak with Dr. Andrew Huberman. Dr. Huberman is a neuroscientist and professor at Stanford University School of Medicine,

known for his research on brain function, behavior, and neuroplasticity, the brain's ability to adapt and rewire itself. The expectation on us is not perfection, it's being able to toggle between these different states. Listen to On Purpose with Jay Shetty on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Trust me, you won't want to miss this one. Kay hasn't heard from her sister in seven years.

I have a proposal for you. Come up here and document my project. All you need to do is record everything like you always do. What was that? That was live audio of a woman's nightmare. Can Kay trust her sister, or is history repeating itself? There's nothing dangerous about what you're doing. They're just dreams. Dream Sequence is a new horror thriller from Blumhouse Television, iHeartRadio, and Realm. Listen to Dream Sequence on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

On the Bechdelcast, the questions asked, if movies have women in them, are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands, or do they have individualism? The patriarchy's effin' vast, start changing it with the Bechdelcast. Okay, this is the Bechdelcast. Hello. Wow. It's me, Caitlin Durante. I was just saying how I don't have an intro for this one because this movie is just so flummoxing. Flummoxing?

So flummoxed. Yeah. Yeah. This is a movie that we just stated off mic. It truly stumped us. It defeated the show every time i thought i was approaching a perspective or a point it was blown up by the scene that happened afterwards where i'm like well i guess um that is technically a lot of agency that's being exercised there's just when you think

you understand what's going on in this movie that I didn't even know existed until our returning wonderful guest Princess Weeks brought it to us. Yeah, I was like wild things could be about anything. Could be could be a kid's movie. Could be the opposite of a kid's movie, which is what it is. Certainly that. Yeah. Oh, my gosh. Wait, let's start the show. Sorry. This is like the show in a good's movie which is what it is certainly that yeah oh my gosh wait let's start

the show sorry this is like really the show broke in a good way it felt good it felt like uh someone stepping on your back okay so this is the bugtel cast my name is caitlin durante my name is jamie loftus and this is our podcast where we take your favorite movies and look at it from an intersectional feminist lens and today boy do we have a challenge because today we are covering the movie wild things from the year uh is it 1998 1998 a neo-noir thriller film featuring um are you just reading from wikipedia scholarly journal thank you so much i use exactly three words from wikipedia there uh but it's uh it's a it's a sexy florida movie where everything that can happen does yeah can we just get into it because i like i we gotta get our guested here

like it's kind of urgent yeah if if you want to know what the bechdel test is listen to the beginning of another episode honestly we don't have time we don't have time today there's so much happening yes let's just dive right in uh by introducing our guest first and foremost uh she's a youtuber and pop culture writer you remember her from our episode on space jam it's princess weeks hello i'm so happy to be back i'm so glad i got to infect you with this like glorious dumpster fire of a movie things will never be the same it's like nev campbell has never been hotter but also also it's like it's giving so much gay confusion right now. So I have to we have to discuss. We simply must.

And that there was there was another scene removed where Matt Dillon and Kevin Bacon hook up and they cut it. Yeah, I know. That was going to be one of the million things that happens in the last 20 minutes of the movie. Whoa. I wanted it. Once I knew it was missing i wanted it back absolutely anyway we'll get princess how did this movie come into your life i am genuinely so curious yeah what's your history so i was on a horror podcast um with writer adam sass and queer intellectual Dana Pickley and they mentioned the kiss between

Nev Campbell and Denise Richards in this movie being an awakening and I was just scrolling down the pandemic you know tubes and I saw the movie and I'm like oh hey there's that movie about that thing and then I just started watching it for a shift and then every time i thought i understood what was happening i was like what and it's like so

many twists so many turns and yet the movie is under two hours honestly yeah that's what makes it so amazing like you're like 30 minutes in this happens 45 55 like and you're just like it's it's it's a masterpiece of a mess i still don't know how to define any of it but when you were like what movie do you want to watch and i was like we have to talk about this i have to bring the ultimate feminist challenge to the mech dog oh i'm ready i'm very ready that like i caitlin do you have history with this movie i'm truly i like this is with with this kind of cast i'm surprised that it uh i've never heard of it before yeah my history is that i've known of the movie for a very long time it's been on my radar probably since it came out because I was 12 when it

came out too young to like have seen it in theaters. But like, I think my friends watched it at sleepovers. Like I've, it's been on my radar since, since it's inception or conception, whatever. Sorry. If our listeners not familiar with the movie inception that was the famous fart noise from inception it is almost as iconic as the women in this movie but yet not

it's true Hans Zimmer could not top what Nev Campbell and Denise Richards are doing here so true so I've known about it for a long time it's been on my list of things to watch for a long time but again as i mentioned recently because we've been covering a lot of erotic thrillers lately it's just a genre that i never seek out so knowing what it was i was like i'm not in the mood for this so i just kept putting it off and putting it off it gets referenced in an episode of pen 15. There's it's referenced constantly. There's like so many like pop culture references to this movie,

particularly the pool scene, the kiss that you were talking about being an awakening for a lot of people. And I've seen that scene before, but I had never watched it all the way through until about a year ago. Okay. I, a couple of friends of mine and I made like to do lists were like 10 things

we want to accomplish in the next year. And I made my list very, very, just you wait. Uh, it's good. You thought you knew what my history with this movie is going to be. Well,

it's full of twists and turns just like the movie wild things so my list i wanted to fill it with things that were extremely achievable so as not to um you know like disappoint myself or have unrealistic expectations so one of the things on the list was watch wild things amazing hell yes i finally did it i accomplished my goal um so i saw it for the first time about a year ago was just completely blown away by how wild the movie is i mean wild things more like Wild Movie. Amazing joke, Caitlin. Thank you so much. An extremely wild movie. Should have been the name of the sequel, of which there are three or four. There are three.

It's a franchise. There is a Wild Things franchise. Of course, none of them star anyone nearly as iconic, but it's just like, wow, it got a sequel. It got, well, okay. A sequel. I got a sequel. I didn't look into the sequels. You're not missing anything. But I'm, okay, I sort of figured. But with this movie, I mean,

I guess if your franchise is just based on twist after twist after twist every like two minutes, that's an exciting franchise to build on. And it doesn't have to make sense no okay so here's a a pitch i have for maybe like a reboot so the suzy character the nev campbell character she's at home she's misbehaving she gets sent to bed without dinner and then escapes into a fantasy world where she plots to murder her high school guidance counselor and his secret detective friend and she also kisses her hot classmate and then everyone gets murdered except for suzy it's called

where the wild things are swish we got there i like it genius this is why you should take her screenwriting class ladies and gentlemen um there's the plug well um so anyway that is my history with the movie and then i've watched it twice to prep for this episode i still feel like i don't know anything that happened in the movie because i've never been more excited for a recap in my whole life i know jamie what about you what What's your relationship, if any? Absolutely nothing. I just let this movie wash over me. I had to watch it twice because the first time I felt like I went into full body shock. And I couldn't process what was going on. Just it's so like it is peak 1998 cast.

Do we ever find out why Bill Murray's wearing a neck brace? Do we ever find out why bill murray's wearing a neck brace do we ever like i was i did not expect daphne rubin vega who is in the original broadway cast of rent to be in this movie just a lot of 90s treats for jamie in this movie i don't know what was going on the first time. The second time, I feel like I have 500 pages of notes, all of which are questions. Yeah. Yeah, that's my history. It's just, huh? And I can't wait to talk about it.

All right, well, shall we get into it with the recap? Yeah, good luck. I know, I'm so excited. Let's see. I do love how it begins with sex and then crimes. I was trying to think of another phrase. My comedy brain was not working, but I was like, there's got to be a bunch of like fun phrases to do that exact setup for. Like fun word followed by terrifying word.

Like food poisoning. Yeah. There you go. There you go. I was literally staring at my computer for two minutes i'm like well i guess that's the only way to do that it's like it's like bread intolerance you know it's like you guys both got one it's gonna hit me like an hour from now and it's gonna suck no please let us know as soon as you got one okay okay i'm gonna start by giving uh content trigger warning um because this movie

deals with rape sexual assault violence toward and murder of women false rape accusations sexual relationships between adults and high school students i feel like the list goes on uh tooth extraction with pliers during the credits triggering to you yeah right i love how this movie is still explaining to you what the what happened during the credits it's great such a weird choice um but all this to say uh the recap and our discussion will heavily involve all of these potentially triggering things just so everyone is aware at the top okay so we are in blue bay florida which seems to be a pretty wealthy community not too far from the everglades we see the glades We see alligators.

You think alligators are going to pay off in some way. They never do. We cut to a high school campus where the guidance counselor, Mr. Lombardo, Sam Lombardo, played by Matt Dillon. Good character name. Good movie name, Sam Lombardo.

That's a great name. My note for him is that he looks like luke perry and that made me sad what does i a bit but also and i don't know if matt dylan is attractive i don't find him to be attractive to me he looks too much like my brother but also in addition to that i don't think he's attractive your brother looks like matt dylan a little bit jamie's like all right here we go but the whole movie is like so many people want to have sex with matt dylan and i just i'm just like what ew why whole family is want to have sex with matt Dillon it's wild the this might be a silly question um what is Matt Dillon most famous for well because every time I see him I'm like I know he's famous

but I don't know for what reason oh yes well he was a teen idol god and he was in several things so he started off as like a young actor who grew into more popularity. He's actually been nominated for an Oscar and a Grammy. What? A Grammy? Yeah, he basically has just had a very prolific career. Like he was in there something about Mary, he was in On the Road, he did an audiobook for that, which I think he got nominated for Best Spoken Word album. He he was in crash a terrible movie but yeah there is that but it's still a movie still a movie still an oscar-winning movie um dark times oh and then he was in you oh i'm like looking at his filmography i'm like oh right

you me and dupree i hate that that jumped out at me as like that movie uh i think most famously he was in the outsiders like the 83 version okay okay okay right he's an outsider's boy thank you thank you and that's pretty much it's like him estevez tom cruise you know every heartthrob of the 80s it's like here you go have a movie Swayze Machio wow I've never seen the Outsiders either that's uh that's my confession it's by our boy FCC Francis oh FFC I was called FCC Francis Ford Coppola Aries icon I wonder if that would be worth covering on the show. Anyway, Sam Lombardo is the guidance counselor. He's holding an assembly about sex crimes for the senior class, one of whom is Kelly Van Ryan, played by Denise Richards.

Sam invites Detective Duquette, played by Kevin Bacon. And at a certain point, I do start to call him Detective Bacon in my notes, so just so you're aware that that will happen. So Detective Bacon and Detective Perez, played by Daphne Rubin Vega, are invited to stage to speak about sex crimes. This upsets another student, Susie, playedv campbell uh she seems to hate detective bacon and we will soon learn that suzy and kelly hate each other it also starts with like him offering students rides home in his jeep like he's a slime ball from the jump. Yes. So what happens? I know it's 1998, but no.

Yeah. So after school, Kelly comes up to Mr. Lombardo while he's teaching boat class, question mark. His whole thing. He loves boats. He's not like other guidance counselors. No. He's a cool guys counselor in Miami. He teaches boat class.

Who fucks. inappropriate he's a guidance counselor who fucks and loves boats so kelly seems to be especially like familiar and flirty with mr lombardo and she's like let me come over and wash your jeep this weekend and he's like i don't know about that and she's like give me a ride home and he's like so he does give her a ride home we see the huge house that she lives in we meet her mom sandra van ryan oh we meet her in the most spectacular way possible when she's having sex with the pool guy and that happens in a later scene but oh sorry we do i guess we do technically sorry that's how that's how i felt her debut that's how you remember truly what an incredible scene

picking up your landline phone while having sex with a pool boy just wild stuff she answers the phone because she's in the middle of having sex so she goes hello acting acting she's strasburg trained look out for her so she's not having sex in this scene but she comes out she's like hey sam lombardo kiss kiss and he's like oh my and then i'm like why do so many people want to have sex with Matt Dillon? Confusing. So then Kelly and her friend wash Mr. Lombardo's Jeep. But it's all a ploy for Kelly to go in and seduce Mr. Lombardo.

And then it kind of cuts away. We don't really know what happens. Although it seems like he's not interested. And then Kelly tells her mom that Mr mr lombardo raped her so kelly and her mom sandra go to the police and report the rape to detective bacon and detective perez this is twist number one that i absolutely did not uh see coming not see coming so ke Kelly gives a statement about the rape. She tells them a particular thing that Mr. Lombardo said about, I don't even want to repeat it in the recap because it's really gross, but she says a particular line, which also is an indicator that there is no physical evidence.

So Detective Perez, because there's no physical evidence thinks that kelly is making this story up very not feminist of her it's very unfeminist true right it's like oh why of course the only cop that's a woman is uh given that perspective and also i feel like that was one of the in in one of the least realistic movies ever produced um cops immediately not believing someone felt authentic kind of the only thing that tracks about the entire movie is the way that cops behave yeah the film is very a-cab like it's very like at the end of it you're like oh we don't trust anybody all authority is bad only the working class everyone except nev campbell deserves to die exactly only the working classes should survive is what well thing says

yeah true true but you know the kind of the other people who have heard kelly's statement aren't sure because sam has a reputation of being sleazy so Sam knows that this accusation is going to be very difficult to recover him. His reputation will be tarnished. And he's worried he won't be able to find a lawyer willing to go up against the Van Ryan family since they're very rich and powerful in the community. But he does find a lawyer, Ken Bowden or Bowden. His name is pronounced differently in every scene. Played by Bill Murray in the

weirdest casting choice I've ever seen baffling why is Bill Murray in the movie wild things and why is he wearing a neck brace and why won't he tell us I think it's implied that he's wearing it to collect on insurance money that he doesn't actually deserve because he says something like oh I don't have to wear this all the time but there was an insurance guy here earlier that's my guess it's a long con yeah it's the perfect crime so ken the lawyer is just like don't worry sam if you didn't do it you have nothing to worry about but we see sam lombardo being more and more rejected by the community he's like banned from the country club he's run off the road by this guy frankie the pool guy who cassandra van ryan was having sex with in my favorite part of the movie and then when i was looking up um it was another it was a writer from

the ringers favorite part of the movie as well i felt very validated um in the scene where he's run off the road into the glades basically yeah and then it's it's very bizarre like the pool light comes out he's like are you okay and then matt dylan's like yeah i'll be fine and then he gets punched in the face cut to a surprised raccoon like i know that is one of the best scenes in any cinema. That raccoon is a genius. And then they fade to black on the raccoon. It's so good. Perfect editing choice.

Yeah. I was like, that had to have been some sort of editing pickle they were in. We're like, we didn't get a good punch or something like that. They're like, we do have the B-roll of that raccoon. And it looks awesome. It's great. Never underestimate a shot of a wild animal you know true that's the wildest thing in the movie if you ask me

wild things more like wild raccoon all right really really great okay so meanwhile the detectives have begun investigating this allegation. They go to talk to Susie, that's Neve Campbell again, who tells them that Sam Lombardo also raped her about a year prior. And she says that Sam Lombardo said the same line that Kelly had said Sam told her. So that kind of corroborates their stories, and it makes the detectives think that, oh, this did happen. So they arrest Sam Lombardo, and he gets thrown in jail. We then cut to the trial where Kelly and Susie give their testimonies. But during Susie's testimony,

she reveals that Sam Lombardo did not rape her or Kelly. This was all for revenge. Susie's motivation is that Sam Lombardo and Susie used to be friends, but then he wasn't there for her when she was arrested and sent to juvie. And so she's retaliating against him for that. Kelly is in love with him and got really jealous when she found out that he was having sex with her mom so this whole thing is a revenge plot and it was all kelly's idea according to suzy i had to rewind a couple times to be like now hold on yeah what yeah is

the plan here and i want to say like the the plot is so like jillian flynn i can just see her as like a young woman watching this movie and like this is good shit i can work with i can work with this and i just like and like nev campbell is like acting so well on this day like her eyes are all red and watery and i'm like girl you were giving a very a plus performance in this b movie and it just elevates everything because you just believe her, and Denise Richards is just sitting there, just seething with her beautiful face, just like, you bitch,

and it's just like, ah. It's so good. The fact that Neve Campbell could get those lines out, and emote at the same time, I was just like, wow. Egot. She deserves it. she deserves it all because I could not even take that information into my head as it was being said to me it was it was a symphony it was wild and then I also looked up I was like how old were oh yeah I looked

it up too yeah so it's like the the age difference between Denise Richards and Matt Dillon in reality is like six or seven years. They're all, it's, it's all very like, which I don't, I mean, I'm glad they did not cast actual children in this movie because it's

disturbing even like on its face. But I was just like something, it just, it felt very CW to be in the way that I was like what so anyways yeah Denise is 27 and Neve is 25 and usually when you watch films like that

everyone is staged and like looks much older they both look super young I genuinely think they were like in their like early 20s and I'm like 27 she looks great I mean she looks great now um oh I love her is her name pronounced Neve I've been saying Nev Neve Campbell I have no idea which one it is I don't know I pronounce things badly so I'm just gonna do it I'm just gonna what did what do you

say Caitlin Neve then I'm gonna I'm gonna do that then but I'm I'm not sure if that's correct so no idea I guess we've covered movies with her is there sometimes when i don't know how to say an actor's name most usually owen mcgregor i just like i just know when yeah i think owen i think you're right caitlin because on his on her pronunciation thing it's like n e and then v so then i'm guessing it's nev okay well nev i'm sure you're listening and let us know we got it right okay so we get this big reveal this big twist that these rape allegations are false and it was all a big revenge plot and it was all kelly's idea So now Sam Lombardo can file a lawsuit against the Van

Ryan family for perjury. So they settle out of court and Sam gets a ton of money from it, something like $8.5 million. And this is very upsetting to Kelly because her mom is breaking her trust to pay off Sam. So there's this scene where she like throws things at him and she's like i hate you you're the worst and and then that's only halfway through the movie so like what else could even happen just you wait we cut to sam at this motel where he's been saying kelly is there and we're like oh no she's gonna get revenge on him but twist kelly and sam lombardo are having an affair and they plotted this whole thing together to set up kelly's mom sandra dun dun dun and guess who else is there suzy

where was the inception soundtrack for this because that would have been very satisfying if suzy walks in and it's just like yeah i gasped or like remember in rogue one the trailer when they're like either of those would have been great i i true i gasp when i mean at first i was like okay okay that's the twist denise and matt are in on it together okay but then when nev campbell comes in the room i was like okay this movie is and that's like less than halfway through the movie it's right uh i'm like they can't they can't maintain this but then they do but then oh here's my brilliant observation about this movie i'm like oh my gosh it has so many twists what is it a saw movie exactly and for more of that you can listen to

our new saw episode on the matreon wow plug alert game over slam and you know what as a patron i can say it's worth the money oh thank you princess oh my gosh just lady supporting ladies wow solidarity it's simply what we do yeah i'm like i'm like mimi and from rent in this movie am i right although although technically she was right she's like i don't trust this this white girl and i'm like oh man but it sucks that she's right there are a lot of ways to look because i was i was thinking about that too where it's like ugh like there's so many ways to view that um thing where it's like she is right to disbelieve this spoiled rich white girl but then also she's a cop and you're just like like it um this one's a brain breaker but also she is right but she's right she saw right through the the scheme she's right okay so suzy is there kelly is there

sam is there they're all working together they're gonna split the money three ways then they all start kissing each other they have a threesome but after that night they can't be seen together because people will catch on to their scheme we then cut to the detectives they are feeling silly from being duped by suzy and kelly and detective bacon is like starting to piece things together that this might be a setup for sam the teens to get a big payday um so detective bacon goes to question kelly and then later suzy and they're both like um i don't know what you're talking about i just feel like i don't know i was just like it's such a huge risk for especially suzy where it's like okay all you have to do is ruin your life

potentially and open yourself up to public the public scrutiny of 1998 and if everything goes off according to plan then you'll get like a couple million dollars which is like I mean that fucking rules but there's so many things had to line up for that to happen. Especially for, I was just, I was just concerned about Susie the whole time. Cause I'm like, she's, she is the vulnerable one of the three. And she starts freaking out about the whole thing. She goes over to Kelly's house. Kelly calls Sam.

They have a private conversation where they're worried that Susie's gonna blow this for them so Sam ominously says well if she gets out of line I'll handle it right and then because Susie is upset she and Kelly get into a fight they're like slapping each other they fall into the pool they're trying to like drown each other but then this fight turns sexy and they start having a heavy makeout session, which I think is the scene that the movie is most famous for. Yeah. Meanwhile, detective Bacon is nearby spying on them and videotaping them.

So for him, this is more proof that Sam, Susie and Kelly are colluding in this scheme together nark no so one night suzy and kelly and sam go to the beach and suzy is really drunk and sam kills suzy and buries her body in the glades or does he or does he yeah it reminds me of when you guys were doing black swan it's like or is it you know black swan wishes it could reach the narrative heights of wild things oh my goodness for sure so not long after this detective bacon finds the spot where this murder took place and he finds

some teeth but he's not yet sure if any crime was actually committed or like what happened or if they are suzy's teeth detective perez on the other hand thinks that suzy probably just ran away to la like she said she was going to and then perez is tasked with keeping an eye on Sam, who invites her into his hotel room to show her Kelly's school file, which does seem like some kind of HIPAA or something violation. Yes. Not sure. Very much so. That's definitely not professional.

Yeah. Not professional. Also not professional is him sleeping with his students very gross i also have a question i know that he works at like a fancy private school but he had i was like a guidance counselor has that house he's so rich yeah he must be from money or something i was like i don't think that that is a guidance counselor salary house no especially not in florida i feel like where they don't pay educators particularly well right i'm like it should it should be every guidance counselor doing their job well should live in a palatial state but yeah and have a boat and have a boat

why how does he this this perpetuates the narrative that guidance counselors have boat money, which they should, but they don't. But they don't. Right. Okay. So he's showing his students files to Detective Perez. And then he and Detective Perez almost kiss. But then he's like, I got to go. Bye.

Meanwhile, Detective Bacon pays Kelly a visit. He claims to protect her because he thinks that Sam is going to kill her next. I think I'm not really sure what the motive was here. But there's a struggle that we can't totally see. We hear gunshots. And then Detective Bacon comes back outside. He's been shot in the arm. Andlly has been fatally shot he gives a statement saying that he had to shoot her in self-defense but even so he is fired from the force we then cut to sam lombardo on a beach he's chilling he's got his millions uh he goes into his hotel and who is there but detective kevin bacon and his bacon what an artful turn it's just yes incredible the way he casually turns we see his penis i don't know why because they've done everything but full frontal at this point

i don't know why i was like oh my i felt very old because we're still we like i remember the first time i saw it i was like laying on my couch and i was like is that kevin bacon's penis i was like and i i texted so many people i was like did you know about this did you know about the penis it's like it was such a surprise and it was just so like you said casually done yeah and then they were supposed to make out i'm like so we could have had kevin's bacon and matt dallin's smooching forehead like come on guys and and after all we've been through watching wild things we deserved it i feel like we earned it as viewers we did um but yeah i thought that that was because like i mean i feel like full frontal

scenes are treated so like tight shot like we did it and this was just so casual like blinking you'd miss it but also you know hot and thrilling and confusing because this movie is all three of those things okay so kevin bacon shows his dick in movies, I think, all the time. He does? Really? I didn't know he was known for that. Wait, Caitlin's dropping... When else have you seen Kevin Bacon's penis?

I feel like... She's like, where haven't I seen Kevin Bacon's penis? I'm Googling it, but I'm pretty sure that... Okay, so he's in a movie called Hollow hollow man which i think you see his penis in i'm gonna regret this google search i know i i know i'm like furiously okay here's something from cinemablend.com entitled why movies need more penises according to kevin bacon oh my gosh kevin bacon on male nudity in movies gentlemen it's time to free the bacon oh wow six degrees of kevin bacon takes on a whole new meaning now wow wow that's like pretty

fucking cool he said this in 2015 somewhat recently but still we want to be naked too thanks kevin sure kevin now not to bring up the minions but we are talking about kevin where is this going oh kevin okay the kevin connection yes yeah six degrees of kevin bacon um kevin the minion and kevin bacon are separated by only by zero degrees because they're both named kevin yeah they're a part of the the grand tradition of kevin's in film exactly kevin klein kevin bacon kevin the minion kevin the minion kevin le mignon le mignon so he picks up the phone he goes hello kevin le mignon but all that to say like kevin bacon is i didn't realize that he was part of a movement to to free the bacon yeah um so proud yeah by his own description like yeah full support

thank you kevin um thank you for your service and this was this was a thrilling moment in a thrilling movie absolutely Absolutely. Truly. Yes. So we see his penis. He's in the shower because another twist, Kevin Bacon and Sam Lombardo are partners. And the two of them have been colluding this whole time. Collusion.

Tragic. They talk about Kelly's death. Kelly wasn't supposed to die. That was not part of the plan. But now the cops convinced that kelly is the one who killed suzy so it seems like sam is totally off the hook sam then takes detective bacon out on his new sailboat as bros do and sam flings him overboard because i guess he wants all the money for himself. He doesn't want to split it with Kevin Bacon. Kevin Bacon gets back on the boat.

There's a scuffle and then another twist because guess who's there? Susie! She's not dead after all. In a like rich Miami lady wig. And she shoots and kills detective bacon with a harpoon gun and i love a good harpoon gun it's my favorite weapon absolutely it's classy and then she kills sam with poison the second coolest weapon yeah she's like giving him this like snarky pop quiz as she's murdering oh it's so satisfying um and so we learn that suzy is a genius who knows how to sail and that basically she was

the mastermind behind this whole thing because during the credits we see flashbacks of suzy approaching sam lombardo and like blackmailing him she tells him to befriend kevin bacon she's just like again orchestrating this whole scheme you see the tooth removal which that's gonna stick with me for a while that's right up there with the raccoon right uh then we see the scene where detective bacon actually shoots Kelly twice, like not in self-defense. He just like makes it look like she shot him. And then finally, there's a scene where Bill Murray gives Susie a case full of money and then she kisses him on the cheek. And it makes it seem like they're also in cahoots or something.

Not really sure what the intention was there. But that is the end of the movie so let's take a break and we will come back to discuss Daphne Caruana Galizia was a Maltese investigative journalist who on October 16th 2017 was murdered. There are crooks everywhere you look now. The situation is desperate. My name is Manuel Delia. I am one of the hosts of Crooks Everywhere, a podcast that unhearts the plot to murder a one-woman Wikileaks. Daphne exposed the culture of crime and corruption that were turning her beloved country into a mafia state. And she paid the ultimate price. Listen to Crooks everywhere on the iHeartRadio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. To listen to new episodes one week early and 100% ad-free, subscribe to the iHeart True Crime Plus channel, available exclusively on Apple Podcasts. Hey everyone, Amy Robach here along with TJ Holmes, and we have a very exciting announcement to make to all of you. We are expanding. We are now going to be coming to you Monday through Friday for a new part of our Amy and TJ franchise, if you will, the morning run. We're going to help listeners navigate the busy news cycle and the historic political season that the country is facing. And we're going to do this now each and every day.

Wow, we have a news franchise now. I like the way you put that. We're going to be covering all the latest news headlines for all of you. We'll have entertainment updates and we'll even give some perspective on the current events that are happening right now. And this, by the way, is in addition to our already established bi-weekly podcast that we hope you guys are tuning into as well with more in-depth conversations and interviews. So we're going to be with you Monday through Friday with Morning Run. Listen to Morning Run on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts.

I've been thinking about you. I want you back in my life. It's too late for that. I have a proposal for you. Come up here and document my project. All you need to do is record everything like you always do. One session. 24 hours. BPM 110.

120. She's terrified. Should we wake her up? Absolutely not. What was that? You didn't figure it out? I think I need to hear you say it. That was live audio of a woman's nightmare.

This machine is approved and everything? You're allowed to be doing this? We passed the review board a year ago. We're not hurting people. There's nothing dangerous about what you're doing they're just dreams dream sequence is a new horror thriller from blumhouse television iheart radio and realm listen to dream sequence on the iheart radio app apple podcasts or wherever And we're back. I just wanted to pull more.

This did this. Kevin Bacon. I just want to return to the free the bacon movement for just a moment. Kevin LeBacon. Hello, Kevin LeBacon. He said, gentlemen, it's time to free the bacon. And by bacon, of course, I mean your wiener, your balls, and your butt. He goes on to say that the show he was on in 2015 was canceled because there wasn't a single shot of his penis. He really was going in.

This is like all done in a jokey way, but I just. I love him. That's good. I love him. That's good. I love him. There were two things I wanted to bring up because I try to bring some good stuff to the show when you bring me. So one of the things that I love is the conversation between Susie's grandmother and a detective where it's revealed that the reason why she wants revenge on Ray, the cop, is because he murdered a seminal boy uh that she was friends with so she's an ally so we love that about her and then the late great roger ebert gave wild things three stars and in his review he says he says this which I'm going to read it just because it's really hilarious. He says, while things is lurid trash with a plot so twisted, they're still explaining it during the closing titles.

It's like a three way collision between softcore sex film, a soap opera and a B grade noir. I liked it. Look, when he's right when he's right he's right he then goes on to say the movie solidifies nev campbell's position as the queen of slick exploitation this was right after both screams and gives matt dylan and kevin bacon lots of chances to squint ominously and has a sex scene with denise richards that is either gratuitous or indispensable depending on your point of view he then goes movies such as this either entertain or offend audiences there's no neutral ground either you're a connoisseur of melodramatic comic vulgarity or

you're not you know who you are i don't want to get any postcards telling me this movie is in bad taste. I'm warning you. It is in bad taste. Bad taste elevated to the level of demented sleaze. And I just thought, eloquence style. We love it. Wow. Look, we've

had our disagreements with Roger Ebert in the past, but that is, uh, that I think is a solid appraisal of the movie. I love that he gave it three stars would not have expected. Three out of four too. Like that's a, yeah,

he's on a different scale. Yeah. He has some of the weirdest reviews. Like you never know what he's going to think of something. And I find that's why, even when I strongly disagree with him, I'm like, I just want to know what he's gonna think of something and i find that's why even when i strongly disagree with him i'm like i just want to know what he's thinking exactly we always bring up his reviews for a reason because either we're like whoa i'm shocked that we are on the same page about that or like this is the worst thing i've ever heard interesting well here he's right

what did he call it a demented sleaze yes he? Yes, he called it Demented Sleaze. I mean, he's not wrong. No. Where do we want to start with this analysis? There's a Smash Mouth song in this, right? Oh. I just wanted to confirm at the beginning there's i think a smash mouth song is it smash mouth i couldn't remember i'll verify i'll verify that's you

but but there's plenty of other things to talk about yeah where where would we like to begin does anyone have a strong so for me i remember first watching the movie and i was like great they're gonna make sure that these girls lied about rape i hate this but then when it was all like oh they're all in this super contrived ridiculous revenge plot i was like well this i can handle you know it was like it was like a very thing of like if it was just purely like these two girls lied about being sexually assaulted to destroy this man's life just because they were bitter i was like that's annoying i don't like that i delete but i do support women's

wrongs and i really did like how it came together even while knowing that it was very bad and not at all good right right like it's tough because it is like net like if you're looking for like a good takeaway of this movie i don't think that you'll find it i did find some attempts to be like this movie is feminist actually and it's like well let's not let's not go completely wild like i don't think that there's really an argument for that but it's so off the rails that it's it's almost like hard to talk about because it's so off the rails every single thing happens and where i was thinking about i was trying to like put it in historical context of like okay 1998 somewhat recent but also completely different time there is this like element of this big public trial of which there were a ton in the 90s most of which women were

like disbelieved in and mistreated and like you know ganged up on by the media and the public and i was like maybe this is trying to say something about that it seems like that's definitely like the world this takes place in but then it takes another turn and then you're five steps removed from that and right at its core like having a movie about two young girls lying about rape even though like you could argue they have been statutory raped by Matt Dillon because they are underage. Like, yeah. You know? Right. Okay.

So like I tried to kind of map out the story and like the twists and the implications of what happens with each kind of major story beat and like what you're thinking as an audience member as things progress so first you you think it's you think it's about two teenage girls being assaulted by an adult man being assaulted by their guidance counselor although i don't remember okay so i think we're supposed to think that denise richards is lying from the beginning though because we see that shot of her quote-unquote seducing him in like what we're told is a calculated way yeah i feel as though the movie wants you to be under the impression that she is lying about it because she is like thirsty this like yeah this seductress who is now bitter that she was rejected so you you see her give her statement we meanwhile have this female cop being like i

think she's like i think kelly van ryan is lying we can unpack that further but right then it turns out that the teens are lying which perpetuates the myth that survivors of rape are lying and making it all up to ruin the lives of men which was also like the public narrative at these big show trials of the 90s as well exactly then it turns out that the teen girls are in cahoots with the man and trying to make money from it, which perpetuates the myth that survivors of rape are lying and making it all up for financial gain, right? Which is another common perception.

Also, meanwhile, this adult man is in a sexual relationship with both of these teen girls. And while the movie repeatedly lets you know that they are 18 so they're legally adults i guess i guess that they are the age of consent but it's still like you your teachers can't have sex with their students the power dynamic power dynamic disgusting yes he's like i think supposed to be twice their age like he the character is twice the age as the girls their cw casting is so wild because you're like what i'm not sure um

okay i didn't catch that they were stated to be 18 they're stated to be 18 got it but who knows when they turned 18 also again the power dynamic is extremely disgusting yeah then we're led to believe that the two girls are murdered by one of the men and then the other guy who turns out to be his partner in crime who we learn is a corrupt cop but not the same cop who thought the rape victims were lying so that's confusing no and she is another thing that I was like is Daphne Rubin Vega implied as having a relationship with Kevin Bacon as well like there is like some scene between them that seems kind of like hinting at something or intimate but I wasn't sure and then it's like she's the only one that's actually

i guess attempting to solve the case even though her i can't always trace her logic but i wasn't sure if it was also implied it just like is implied it seems like that every woman in this story is in a sexual relationship with either matt dylan kevin bacon or both yeah yeah it's like one of the most frustrating things is because like if you watch like the erotic thrillers of like the 90s and 80s always pick like the most generic white man like all of them with like michael douglas and i'm like i'm sorry i don't understand why these beautiful women are trying to ruin you know the dick life of michael douglas you know is this who i i don't believe glenn close is going to ruin her entire mental health for this person

it doesn't always get i i still uh i i've i'm not all the way through it yet but i i know that that's the most recent season of you must remember this is like all about 80s erotic thrillers and like the politics surrounding it and the actors surrounding it but it is all like it's a murderer's row of like oh that that guy question mark like they're all just like different variations on the same you know sharp-jawed white guy that I think whatever I mean like if you're into it you're into it personally in this I'm like you know Matt Dillon works for me you shouldn't have told me that about your brother Caitlin someone's gonna be getting some text messages okay hey what's up I mean we shouldn't be surprised because you're also hot Caitlin so that only it only makes sense you got hot jeans thank you so

much you're so awesome and honestly if someone if you were like matt dylan's my cousin i'd be like you know what i see it yeah i see it it's the powerful face structure i feel sick um okay uh what were we what were we talking oh okay so then the final so the final like twist slash big reveal is that one of these girls isn't actually dead she was not murdered and she was scheming against the men the whole time the whole thing was her idea and she's an evil genius which you can argue like turns out she has the most agency all along canonically yeah i i thought there was an interesting comment from the uh director about that the director john mcnaughton he said in 2018 so 20 years later he says that this was his most political film because of how he felt it commented

on social class. He said, quote, Who wins? The girl from the trailer park. She's all alone on the 90 foot sailboat out on the Caribbean. Pretty much everyone else is dead. That was the 90s with the concentration of wealth. But the girl from the trailer park takes them all down. You know, I'm from the striving working class.

A lot of the kids I grew up with, the parents didn't care if their kids dropped out of school. But some of us had parents who insisted their children have an education, go to college, escape all that. So that's where my heart always lies, unquote. That's a loaded statement in itself. But I thought it was interesting that he was willing to like publicly be like, for me, this is a movie about class struggle in Florida. Sure. Which had it been handled differently? differently oh i'm not saying it was done well yeah that's just what he thinks yeah yeah it's one of those things where like i read that quote and i'm like well i admire the the chutzpah right the ambition it is a bit of a mess and it is an interesting like marxist reading of the film of like how do you do a thriller like this in which you do work to make the women more

empowered because if you think about something like fatal attraction or basic instinct there is this idea that like at the end the man has to be the one who survives these toxic women right and so in in that sense it is a flipping of that trope but it does so by leaning into some of the most problematic tropes about what it means to be a survivor and i think yeah i've been kind of coming to terms with this for a while because i do like erotic thrillers i do like these kind of stories it is just hard to enjoy them because people actually think that women are like this that's the thing right we live in a patriarchy and like there are people who really believe that women are black widows that will like do these long cons to like ruin a man's life and so it it stops you from being able to enjoy a movie in which a girl does a long con to ruin two men's lives who quite frankly deserved it one is a murderer and one was a

statutory rapist right like uh that's like the perfect yeah that like crystallizes something i could not have stated as well where it's like it's exciting to engage with this genre as like an escapist fantasy of like oh wouldn't it be amazing to be playing a game of 4D chess with a bunch of assholes and like win? But yeah, like the general cis male perspective and certainly in like 1998 was like it's supposed to like create fear within men that like all women are out to get something from them and if they don't get what they want they will ruin your life and lie and like it's just like the least from that perspective it's like the least introspective way to approach a movie which sucks because it is super like I used I feel like earlier in this podcast like years ago I would feel kind of like guilty I guess for enjoying movies like this because you're like oh they they do on their you know face appear like not particularly pro

woman because women are made out to be liars they're like executing these long cons they're disbelieved and all this stuff but it's like it just depends on how you're engaging with it. There's a million ways to engage with everything. And it's just like the dominant interpretation we're always given is like, that is, is cis male. And so if this movie was just for people who, who understood it would be so fun. But, but even, but then it's like you've listened to what the director says

and it's like well maybe he doesn't even understand it so question marks all around that plus what takes me too far out of it to the point of no return for this movie is that so much of it relies on these false rape allegations which is such a very very harmful and sinister thing to perpetuate where i'm sure like young men boys like watch this movie and they were like oh my gosh women they will just make up stories and they will accuse me of sex crimes just so that they can ruin my life and try to get money out of me and try to get attention and like you know fame and all the reasons that people believe survivors of rape and assault for sure come forward this movie reinforces this idea that yeah rape allegations are wrong people made them up and they did it for very selfish reasons and it's

just like because that's so much at the crux of this story it's just too hard for me to be on this movie's side absolutely and i think that's i think i think that's just as valid as those of us who enjoy the titillation of it because it really is like everyone has their own barometer like every everyone has their own threshold and i think what is frustrating is that it really is sort of like you know we talk about like how society informs art and how it informs the audience right back and i feel like that's kind of where i'm at when i re-watch this movie it's like there's a part of me that likes it because again i like women's crimes and i like and i and i and i find it and i find it compelling about this like girl who's poor uses the like the sexual taboos of the people

around her in order to get power but because we live in such a fucked up society in which that kind of woman is seen inherently as a liar as a con artist it stops you from being able to just really get absorbed in just a story i mean we see that with you know with gone girl like there's been so much recent because of certain celebrity cases about like everyone bringing up like uh you see like this is why we can't support these films and people have been saying things about jillian flynn that i don't necessarily agree with but it makes it so that even a film like that which is clearly playing with noir tropes and these kind of things is seen as suspect because it does perpetuate an idea that this is something that women do right like and the critical reading skills and watching skills have

made it very hard to enjoy everything so thanks for that story of our lives thanks for that knowledge and it's like there's and then there's plenty of people who watch gone girl and like love the shit out of that movie for the same reasons you're describing because they and also because they have some perspective and uh can take you know three steps out of a movie successfully and and also like we've been like hinting at this throughout the whole episode but as as i was i hadn't seen this movie but i felt like this is like the most this is like the x games version of this premise but like i was like oh i've seen movies with this premise before like when i was uh working on lolita podcast i was looking at all of the 90s movies

of like teenage temptresses that are lying and ruining a man's life because that's the way that lolita is framed by the narrator. That's what he, you know, needs people to believe is happening. Right. Whole other thing. But they reminded me,

um, this movie, at least up until it really goes off the rails was reminding me of this. Alicia Silverstone's first movie is called the crush. Oh yeah. It's kind of similar where it's like a, a young, it's about a teenager who becomes obsessed

with Cary Elwes of Saw fame. Of Saw fame. Saw 1 fame. Yes, of course. I believe it's his most famous role. I haven't jigsawed both. But so The Crush is a similar premise, where it's like a teenager who finds, you know, an older man she's interested in.

And then when she feels spurned or rejected by him, she lies to everybody and is out to ruin him. And he is a total victim in the story. She is this conniving evil character. And it sucks. Like from I but i don't know it i'm i'm very like on and off in this genre where it depends on the execution and how it's framed wild things works for me more because it's so off the rails that you're like i don't know what the takeaway from this movie could possibly be but but i totally agree with you caitlin where it's like this movie doesn't work

without a fundamental disbelief in young women's rape allegations which is you know inarguably a net negative and also i think is i mean in light of recent events like it's not like people are particularly more inclined to believe survivors of assault now than they were in 1998 true um that scene with bill murray in the courtroom was brutal it was so gross god yeah yeah and and the fact that like you know that there are people who are just nodding along like yeah and then it gets validated by her being a liar and it just it it is frustrating because i think of it like anything that has to do with like sort of like i had this question with a friend of mine about sort of the concept of like rape fantasies that some women have in terms of like sexual

and that like there is this inability to discuss this because that gets weaponized against us right you know the fact that we might have those fantasies become the thing of like well then how do you know this is like that or this is like that it's like it's these inabilities to separate real people from fiction it's like it's fiction and this is a real person and it's just like it's getting worse And this is a real person. And it's just like, it's getting worse. Because even if I thought about this film from like, the class perspective of like, the reason why this, you know, Afro Latina detective doesn't believe this very privileged white woman is like, not just being like women are liars, but like, that class element

to it. But even that's not helpful because privileged women can still be victim to sexual assault and it does matter if you perpetuate like the blonde white woman as inherently like a thirst trap because she is ultimately a victim in this film because she was being statutory raped by her teacher yeah and like manipulated i i this isn't like touched on in the movie really but it's like for sure the matt dylan character had to be severely manipulating these girls to convince them that this is absolutely going to be in their best interest because they're the ones who realistically in this situation would have their you know reputations and lives destroyed by like engaging in this case at all like i think in i'm glad it doesn't go

there but like the the nev campbell character if that actually aired on tv in the 90s like her life would have been ruined like it's i don't know well and then going back to what you were just saying princess where you know it's this this woman of color who isn't believing this, you know, very privileged, rich white girl. That dynamic isn't something that the movie overtly explores. Spells out. Yeah, exactly. Right. It's only just there for us to interpret, but not anything that the movie is actually like clearly examining so

it's tricky but absolutely yeah yeah so yeah so there's that scene in the court where um where bill murray is is like basically badgering nev campbell's character to admit that she's lying. Very unpleasant to watch. Much like a lot of the scenes between the cops and the two teens. It gets complicated because it does turn out that they are lying. But, for example, when Kelly is giving her statement toward the beginning of the movie, Detective Perez says, says well did you try to fight back she asks a similar question to Susie saying like well did you tell him to stop basically saying like why didn't you try to stop getting raped Susie responds with you know what's the difference no one's going to believe me anyway, which statistically true. And then like we talked

about, there's the moment where Detective Perez doesn't believe Kelly's statement because there's no she's like, well, maybe there's no physical evidence because she's making the whole thing up. You have Detective Bacon saying like, well, did you flirt with him a little bit, you know, blaming her and suggesting that her behavior makes her at fault all these things that are pretty authentic to how cops tend to conduct themselves when it comes to sex crimes um and how they tend to handle reports of rape and assault um i don't know if the movie is actively commenting on this or more just sort of like presenting it as like well this is just how it's happening in this movie i can't really tell and i guess i don't know what my point is about this aside from that's kind of the one part of

the movie that does track the cops like conduct around these but it's rendered moot i feel like when it turns out that the girls are lying about these allegations yeah and that's the core problem yeah so it's why it's like really difficult to talk about this movie they've created this like whatever like shell game that it's like well in the logic of the story it's true that they're lying it's just like the fact that that's what they defaulted to is very telling and this movie's a mess i i would say i mean based on what i learned from a scholarly journal wikipedia about the writing of this movie i would say that probably a lot of this was not intended it sounded like uh the guys went to florida and uh wrote a little ditty um yeah there there's the credited screenwriter is a classic two first names steven peters love that

i prefer the work of uh peter stevens but that's just me likewise look there's two kinds of people but like it went through a lot of rewrites i guess um a writer named chem nunn was given a rewrite thing and so they were sent to florida producer named Peter Goober. Peter Goober. Oh, my gosh. Said that when I read the script, I thought as crazy as it is, I do believe it could happen in the world we live in. Once I believe that a story can happen in the real world, then I know how to direct it. And you're just like, um, I don't think that they were thinking that hard or trying to say that much. If they read this script and were like, this is plausible, this could happen.

And the director also said, I really liked the script, but it was also me asking myself, what sells sex and violence? You want sex and violence? Well, here you go. How much can you take? Like they weren't thinking that hard. Absolutely not. Let's take a quick break and then come back

and talk about sex. Ooh. Daphne Caruana Galizia was a Maltese investigative journalist who on October 16, 2017, was murdered. There are crooks everywhere you look now. The situation is desperate.

My name is Manuel Delia. I am one of the hosts of Crooks Everywhere, a podcast that unhurts the plot to murder a one-woman Wikileaks. Daphne exposed the culture of crime and corruption that were turning her beloved country into a mafia state. And she paid the ultimate price. Listen to Crooks Everywhere on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

To listen to new episodes one week early and 100% ad-free, subscribe to the iHeart True Crime Plus channel, available exclusively on Apple Podcasts. Hey everyone, Amy Robach here along with TJ Holmes. And we have a very exciting announcement to make to all of you. We are expanding. We are now going to be coming to you Monday through Friday for a new part of our Amy and TJ franchise, if you will, the morning run. We're going to help listeners navigate the busy news cycle and the historic political season that the country is facing. And we're going to do this now each and every day. Wow. We have a news franchise now. I like the way you put that. We're going to be covering all the latest news headlines for all of you. We'll have entertainment updates and we'll even give some perspective on the current events that are happening right now. And this, by the way,

is in addition to our already established bi-weekly podcast that we hope you guys are tuning into as well with more in-depth conversations and interviews. So we're going to be with you Monday through Friday with Morning Run. Listen to Morning Run on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. I've been thinking about you. I want you back in my life. It's too late for that. I have a proposal for you. Come up here and document my project.

All you need to do is record everything like you always do. One session. 24 hours. BPM 110. 120. She's terrified. Should we wake her up? Absolutely not.

What was that? You didn't figure it out? I think I need to hear you say it. That was live audio of a woman's nightmare. This machine is approved and everything? You're allowed to be doing this? We passed the review board a year ago. We're not hurting people.

There's nothing dangerous about what you're doing. They're just dreams. Dream Sequence is a new horror thriller from Blumhouse Television, iHeartRadio, and Realm. Listen to Dream Sequence on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And we're back. I feel like this is very important to bring up so i apologize so yes stephen peters was 51 years old when he wrote the script for a while thanks okay so he's writing teen girls as a 51 year old man oh man. Oh, my God. I was like, I saw he was, like, born in 1947, and I was like, 1940, what?

I love to, whenever you find stuff like that out, you just, like, I can't help but picture him at his house being like, whew, all right, like, time for dinner. Like, oh, God. time for dinner like oh god he's like you know what teen girls do is they plot schemes to ruin the lives of men they um punch each other and knock each other into swimming pools and then start kissing and then they kiss they do kiss which okay uh let's talk about that stephen peters how could you so um stephens would have done it better peters stephens would never certainly so this scene in particular which i thought went on for way longer than it did i was like misremember maybe i was just you know wishful thinking not

sure but oh my god sorry there's like if you type in peter stevens our joke name into wikipedia three men come up of course of course one's a car designer one's an raf officer what is that raf sounds scary all right sorry continue i was just like wow peter stevens canon is real real person yeah so the scene in the pool where nev campbell's character and denise richard's character they're mad at each other they're physically fighting they're trying to drown each other things take a turn at some point and then they are kissing and it's it's quite steamy although it cuts away pretty quickly i'm not sure if there's like an extended scene, like an extended version, like on the DVD extras or something that I have watched.

But there's an extended version of the movie. I don't know if this scene in particular extent. This scene is not long. I have seen the extended version and it is not longer. It is not longer. Okay. So I'm just filling in the gaps in my own brain. Good to know about me and my psyche. But the point is that I think a lot of people have cited this movie and that scene in particular as a sexual, like a queer awakening for them. There's also a discussion to be had about queer baiting. There's a lot to unpack here. Also keeping in mind that Detective Bacon is filming this scene on a camcorder which

will also um kind of transition to do another conversation about the male gaze uh in this movie but the pool scene thoughts it really is the power of these two women just being very incredibly good looking because like because it's tacky it's you know supremely male gazey in every single sense of the word am i gonna pretend that it wasn't nice to see nev campbell and denise richards his no i'm not gonna lie on the bechdel cast i will not i will not be held in contempt of cast court you will not perjure yourself i will not perjure it reminds me of like seeing selma blair and sarah michelle geller kiss in cruel intentions it's like was it a moment for me? Yes. Does the feminist in my brain admit that this is not,

this was not made with me in mind. If they had had Kevin Bacon and Matt Dillon kiss, then we could have a different conversation. Because that would have been Denise's boobies kissing Neve Campbell and then the bacon and then the kissing of the two men. And then we could have at least had some equal opportunity voyeurism uh-huh but we didn't I agree I I this wasn't because I didn't know this movie existed until this week this was not an awakening movie for me but I feel like it's very easy to see like There are other analogs to this scene in 90s movies

that do technically qualify as queerbaiting, but also that doesn't invalidate the raw power that a scene like this can have. They also could be queer characters. I don't know that the filmmaker's intention was there, but do we really think that Stephen Peters or Peter Stevens or whatever the fuck his name is has any nuance on this topic I would guess definitely but maybe he would surprise us I don't know he might also so the characters those two characters kiss I think three different

times throughout the movie first in the scene where Susie Kelly and Sam have a threesome, where like, he's kissing one of them, he's kissed the he kisses the other one. And then he says, now you two kiss. And they seem to willingly and consensually kiss each other. And it's very hot, admittedly. And it seems like am I am I out of line by saying it doesn't seem like it's like it seems like it's happened before? Like, could be that was my maybe that again, I'm projecting. I was like, oh, these ladies know what they're doing. Well, what I can say. Oh, I'll let you finish it.

And I'll come in with my facts that I wrote for this thing. Sure. So then they kiss again in the pool scene. And then they kiss a third time. I think they're in Kelly's mom's Range Rover. It's when they like go to the beach and shortly shortly after that is when suzy is we think murdered by sam turns out she wasn't but they just share like uh we're just gonna we need to get wasted and have fun tonight and then they kiss

each other so we don't really know because the movie doesn't explore their relationship beyond that. But it does happen three times that they kiss on screen, if that kind of contextualizes anything further. But Princess, you have a thought. Yes. So I wanted to say, so Neve Campbell said that she enjoyed kissing Denise in a interview when she talked about the Rolling Stone. And they said that they kind of like, got like, you know, had some margaritas. And the fact that they're both adult women does make me feel a lot more comfortable. Yes. 25 and 27 has a lot more autonomy than like, a 21, a 22. Those few years do matter to me totally and then she said that she wrote in her journal about the experience and she wrote okay i'm gonna make out with a girl for the first time in my life

it's so interesting that a lot of times you learn things about yourself and have new experiences when shooting a scene because they're things you wouldn't normally do in your life it's so interesting isn't that neat she's so cute and denise was just kind of like at one point i was thinking it's four o'clock in the morning i'm half naked in a swimming pool i'm making out with nev campbell what am i doing here god bless and one thing i will say because i know there's been a talk about consent. One thing that the director did say is that he puts all the sex scenes in the script. So whenever he hires actors, he makes sure that they know that that's in the script, that they don't have to feel tricked or manipulated into that. Once they're in a comforting zone, he'll maybe see like how much more comfort they have

with certain things but he does put it all in there and i feel that is a good thing as well yeah i agree with it's like again shame on me for being shocked whenever a direct a male director does the bare minimum for their cast but like right that I was also kind of I guess like heartened to read about the the fact that yeah like they knew about the nudity and it was like built into their contracts where like Denise Richards did an extensive negotiation on how much nudity would be allowed she had the option to use a body double she opted not to you know I'm assuming when she was like shout out to the body double episode we did recently another erotic thriller it's true um but she said that she

she filmed the scene herself without a body double after drinking a pitcher of margaritas with nev campbell again incredible um reminds me of oh, what's the Wachowski sisters thriller we just covered? Oh, Bound. Oh, Bound. Yes. They also mentioned bonding and getting a little tipsy before hooking up on screen for that movie. Campbell's contract had a strict no nudity clause. And Kevin Bacon also had a no nudity clause that he then later, because he was also a producer on the movie, even though he was quoted as saying, this is the trashiest thing I've ever read. But he was also a producer on the movie even though he was quoted

as saying this is the trashiest thing i've ever read but he's also a producer um so he had a no nudity clause but then he uh and quoting wikipedia but without giving it much thought allowed mcnaughton to use the shot that he thought looked best and a moment of frontal nudity was included in the film so you mean everyone had the option was included in the film so you mean everyone had the option to be naked or not so you mean kevin let me show you my bacon bacon was originally like no bacon in this one originally he was like i want to be serious but then he's like actually yes bacon yeah yeah he's like this movie will only be successful if i show my bacon and you know what now three sequels later wow who was wrong

not him yeah how would the world be different and and a big question in the ripple of how would the world be different is what if the I don't think it was filmed the Duquette and Lombardo sex scene near the end of the film I would imagine and again maybe this is my imagination getting away from me i'm imagining matt dylan gets in the shower with kevin bacon in the scene with the bacon i don't know it says that the original screenplay featured a scene between duquette and lombardo near the end of the film where the men kiss in the shower oh that's why i think that okay they kiss in the shower revealing that the two had a relationship that allowed Lombardo to prey on Duquette in order to manipulate him and con him out of the money. This is a twist that is very in keeping with this movie.

The reason it didn't happen, according to Kevin Bacon, the scene was modified to the Bacon scene we have to eliminate any suggestion of a sexual relationship between the men as the film's financiers quote didn't like the idea of men

making out they felt it went too far unquote which hate it I fucking didn't feel like women making out

went too far which goes back to sort of the male gaze kind of exploitation of women's bodies uh that we'll talk about um yeah the last thing i want to say about the relationship or i guess sexual connection between suzy and kelly there's that scene where we learn what's in Kelly's file slash we learn what Sam wrote in Kelly's file that he then gives to Detective Perez and he says in it that Kelly is sexually confused

which implies that bisexual people or like like people who are questioning their sexuality are quote-unquote sexually confused a deeply 1998 stance to take another thing that's like presented i think very matter of factly and not as a way of commenting on anything i think that that's just the writer being like and of course everyone feels this way and because in the same sentence, Kelly is said to have threatened the life of two people as if she is threatening people's lives because she is, quote unquote, sexually confused. Like her sexual confusion is leading to like violent tendencies kind of thing. Right. Which brings us back to the basic instinct discussion.

Yeah. Of it all. Yeah. But I don't know if that's what the movie believes or if that's just what sam lombardo thinks and we already know that he's a sleazy character who manipulates people i i couldn't really tell and that confuses things if well i guess not to tip my hat or give steven peters the benefit of the doubt but if that character was originally written as also being bisexual then that's a totally different read on that scene totally yeah

confusing so confusing i just had the thought like i just was like what if i want someone to cut the trailer for this movie with like the jennifer's body audio because imagine if it was like denise richards and and nev campbell in like jennifer's body now i'm just having chills now i just have to live it's gonna have to live in my brain now and it's the thing is it's not too late either it's not too late it can be done can we talk about the male gaze cinematography oh absolutely of the flim sure okay so we get a lot of it jeffrey l kimball 1943 just so you know this is also a 50 something year old man photography staging these shots um known previously oh this is interesting he was this is really interesting he was also the that 50-something-year-old man staging these shots. Known previously.

Oh, this is interesting. He was, this is really interesting. He was also the cinematographer for The Legend of Billie Jean. That was his first movie. Oh, okay. Does not compute. Does not line up. Hmm.

All right. Well. Anyways. So we get, I think the first extreme example is a gratuitous scene of two girls washing a car. There are so many lingering shots of like their butts, their pelvises. Like we see they're like wet t-shirts and this scene does not need to be in the movie. We do not need girls washing a car. Take it out of the movie. The movie is tighter and more seamless but i also i

don't but i also understand the awakening appeal of a scene like that but it's also like well but that scene is clearly intended for cis men yes so i'm going through jeffrey kimball's filmography and i'm curiouser and curiouser uh He starts with The Legend of Billie Jean. He also is a cinematographer on Top Gun. He also did an Adrian Lyne movie. So he also did True Romance. Like this guy films bodies. Bodies, bodies, bodies?

Ah, a movie I need to see. That one wasn't him. Yeah, Caitlin, I haven't seen it yet. I have seen Bodies, Bodies seen bodies bodies bodies i think he's retired he also did old dog which i don't have a comment on i just think it's fun um but anyways yeah this this guy loves a greased up wet body to film he sure does that's threesome scene. There's a lot of like heavy focus on, you know, the Denise's boobs,

Denise's boobs, her, her butt and the way that like Matt Dillon's body is not focused on or objectified. We get a scene where Denise Richards is getting out of a pool, all sexy for no reason. The camera slowly pans up her body as she's towelling off you can see her nipples through her swimsuit detective bacon is like nice stroke anyway did you plan this whole

scheme to get a bunch of money out of your mom and she's like what anyway no reason this scene needs to take place at a pool or like right after she's gotten out of a pool just a lot of choices were made and i get it like this is these are staples of the erotic thriller but why is a trope of the erotic thriller to exploit and objectify women's bodies constantly that's a question i would ask it was like i felt so i remember when i was rewatching that scene i'm just like damn hate that i am attracted to this is like so it was like no i'm just sitting here damn it my queerness betrays me again part of the problem i felt like that i mean it was like am i am i part of the problem because i obviously i would not have shot if i was a cinematographer i would not shoot it in that

way because it's just it's very over the top. And especially because it isn't as equally on like, you know, we have to see dick lines then. You know what I'm saying? It's like we had all the time. Yeah, we only see that one tiny little glimpse of Kevin Bacon's bacon. And that wasn't enough. And it wasn't even supposed to be there. It wasn't even intentional.

I think it's also just like I remember watching the movie. I'm like, these shots are so voyeuristic. And these women look so good. It was like it was like just like, I remember watching the movie. I'm like, these shots are so voyeuristic. And these women look so good. It was like, it was like, like, I know. These look so cool. Like her styling was really good. I loved her little, her like goth like outfits. Like, I was just like, man, the costumers really dress these ladies up very nicely.

Mrs. Hot Topic herself. I really liked her costuming. There's a number of different ways to approach the cinematography where i think like on its face it is like clearly exploitative of women especially in 1998 like very obvious what they're trying to do very obvious the like whatever that there's a good 15 years leading up to this movie where doing that is a very proven money making box office move. This movie, I think, kind of bafflingly makes its money back three times. But then it's, I don't know. And then I'm like, I'm a little bit of a part of the problem in this case also.

So it's confusing yeah it's uh it's kind of rude sometimes how our like sexual brains and our analyst brains it's almost like they're sort of like having a fight in a pool and they're like kind of punching each other and but then they start kissing oh my god and then you're just like what's going on here what do i think and yeah i mean i the the threesome scene i feel like also was kind of telling like you like you're saying of like how it's very very preoccupied with denise richard's body specifically it's not that occupied with matt dylan's body and it's also very preoccupied with close-ups on nev campbell's jealous face yeah as if to say like i wish i was kissing matt dylan and you're like of the two are you serious but like but it's clear that it's like oh this is like for him and again

it's like if he if his character was canonically bisexual like he was supposed to be it just becomes a more i think like interesting conversation and if men's bodies had been you know this movie had been preoccupied with the men's bodies as well that shifts the conversation a little bit but it doesn't and I think it's really interesting that like Kevin Bacon said explicitly like our financiers were not interested in filming a scene between two men because you know that doesn't equal money in the way that queer betting between two women equals money right i also have a theory that and let's get into some screenwriting not that i know anything about it not that i have a master's degree in it from

boston university which i would never mention but my theory is that because when you're writing a movie you're always looking for ways to sort of just like heighten the situation especially in like an erotic thriller you're thinking okay how can i make this how can i push boundaries how can i like really make this tantalizing and push social mores and stuff like that and i feel like including the sexual connection between these two teen girls was a way to be like yeah i can just sort of use that use queerness as a way to really push boundaries and heighten this heighten the situation of this of this movie that's supposed to be like sexy and violent and kind of sick because it's about you know rape and assault and violence so it loops in queerness as

like a quote-unquote social taboo like yeah just right yeah it's just like in basic instinct when it's like Catherine you know she's bisexual but like dangerous you know it's like right and I'm just sitting here like yes and you know it can't just be yes it has to be yes and she is right she is dangerous because she is bisexual and a sociopath like please please include both otherwise it is very upsetting one is biphobic both is a character and um oh yeah yeah yeah it's the late 90s i mean it's like we were we were there but what was happening there it i don't know and it's and to your point killin it's like by including a very queer baity plot line and and just the general cinematography of like lingering on these women's bodies so much

it like it almost is like it's like perceived as being risky when in reality there were 15 years of movies before this that proved that this was not risky this was a sure thing for them well they so they still get to have the like aesthetics of being cutting edge and risky while actually playing it extremely safe what would have actually been risky and different is if they filmed the scene between Matt Dillon and Kevin Bacon, that would have been different. Right. Absolutely.

But these filmmakers didn't have the guts. They didn't have the, if they had taken a screenwriting class with, let's say a young talented woman that wasn't born two years after World War II ended, maybe that would have made a difference. Who knows? Caitlin, I've always said that you're the Stephen Peters of modern street writing.

As a compliment. Well, I prefer to be thought of as the Peter Stevens, so... Fair enough. You're a car designer. What else is there to discuss anyone have anything else just that like watching this movie for the second time this movie is sex crimes it is especially heinous but to quote in another review of it he said it was from the washington post the person said the film is clearly a crock it may not have a single redeeming feature but it doesn't have a dull moment either and i'm just like you're goddamn right it's like that is and that's a former speechwriter for the obama administration saying that it is so it is so bizarre it is it is illegitimately not a good

movie but every time I watch it I'm just kind of like fascinating you know I just want to smoke a brandy drink a brandy and smoke a cigarette just be like fascinating it's it's a lot like what if this is what the aliens find oh my god and what will they think of us will they think we are awesome well i just think i just think that like denise richards was like starship troopers this and then bond you know it's like what a what a what a triple threat just like what a trajectory and you can't say she doesn't have the range. She's got the range. I mean, there's a reason I think that this movie has sort of, I don't know how much of like a cult following it has,

but people still know about this movie. People still talk about it. It still gets referenced. Like it's been requested numerous times on the show. You know, it's got a legacy for for i think mostly being sexy trash i mean what's wrong with a little sexy trash here and there this movie uh yes is there anything i mean i think like it's we've mentioned this several times at this point but um this movie is extremely white um in a state where it doesn't make sense to be extremely white.

Like Florida is an extremely diverse state. There's no reason for this to be an all white cast except for Daphne Rubin Vega, I think. Or actually there are a few. The principal at the school. It's all kind of like the very like typical because even, you know, the seminal character is dead and we never see them. And they're the whole reason for this entire plot and you don't see another indigenous person there at all which is very disappointing it's almost like stephen peters didn't educate himself on jack shit before writing

this like it's in a very of the era way it's a it's a very white white white movie and that is one of the many facets of this movie that does not hold up um i was happy to see daphne ruben vega i just like her as a 13 year old former recovering um fan of rent uh-huh but do i wish she was uh given more slash more interesting things to do yes do i wish she was not cast as a cop definitely absolutely yeah why is she being like don't believe women they're lying do i wish that weren't her platform? Yeah. Is there any other things? I mean, we didn't really get to the mom. Yeah.

Horny mom. Horny mom. I mean, there's really not that like, again, I just like, don't think the movie is thinking about her very hard, but just because we,

we just so happened to record an episode about tangled yesterday and talking about like a narcissistic mother with a daughter I think it is like worth mentioning that it does give Kelly's character more dimension than I was expecting to give her a difficult relationship with her mom who even when even though she believes her daughter's rape allegation which again this is all blown up by the fact that it's not real. But her mother does believe her immediately, but for very selfish reasons and makes her daughter's alleged assault all about her, which is I don't know what I mean. It just feels worth pointing out. And also the fact that Matt Dillon has had sex with a mother and a daughter that are both grieving their you know spouse slash father who died by suicide the year before it's just like so much we didn't get around to talking about that

really speaks to how much is going on in this movie i mean the wild things has nothing to say about grief but i do think it's like i mean that's another thing they threw in there my thought about that is so for a while we are led to believe that this whole scheme was Kelly's idea and that she is deliberately screwing over her mom to get money from her like the trust that she feels that she deserves earlier because right now it's like i'm not going to get the trust until my mother dies so we think for quite some time that kelly has such a vendetta against her mom that she's doing this whole plot to steal from her mother who i guess she hates but i felt that their relationship was not contextualized or explored enough to understand what was going on there at all. For sure.

Do they treat each other particularly well? I would say no. They don't seem like they have the best relationship. But there's just, we don't know enough about it that I'm like, wait, what? Why is she doing this now? And what? Because I also feel like with the mom, like, there's a very shorthand of like woman having sex equals evil yeah equals villain and I feel like that shorthand is is used with her character

like or like she's somehow callous or unfeeling by wanting to enjoy casual sex like especially as like an older woman yeah yeah like they they really you know shrewify her in a way that yeah i agree that there's not enough context so it's like in one way you're like okay kelly's character is very traumatized by like the because there is that one scene with them that doesn't give you enough information but it like i thought it was going to come back and it just didn't where Kelly's mom has difficulty like touching her own daughter. Like she can't touch her and is like trying to have a conversation with her about the dad. But like they can't quite communicate. And that is a really interesting setup.

If you intend to return to that extremely heavy plot point again which they don't and it ends up making Kelly's mom look extremely callous and manipulative and self-involved then it just kind of drops it so it's kind of like I don't know I couldn't even reach a conclusion of any sort about it because you're like it just goes away not sure it was an interesting setup but I guess I don't really have much faith in how Mr. Steven Peters would have would have landed on it either so yeah that was my last thing pretty baller move though for sandra van ryan to tell sam one that he was really good at sex but that's all he's good for and to say that in front of the other guy that she is currently fucking look pretty cool can't wait to try that out someday that was legend you got i mean yeah picking up the phone while you're coming

is also like a pretty pretty baller incredible thing to do like she's classically trained i love going to like yeah you go to go to Teresa Russell's Wikipedia page, Lee Strasberg, same deal with Jigsaw. Jigsaw went like graduated from Yale drama school. And you're like, and it makes sense. Yeah. But he miss? I mean, I'm sure we missed something. I feel like I missed everything. But there's just too much happening in this movie. We simply can't touch on it all. My last question is, what does Teresa Russell say? Did she say, I missed it the first time I was in anaphylactic shock, the second time I missed it?

She said something on the phone to Matt Dillon, something akin to, not every man knows how to drive my boat or something like that oh she says i haven't found a man who can drive my boat better than you or something like that yeah boat as pussy metaphor yeah yeah it's interesting and the guy she was fucking knew it because he was like really girl i didn't even leave the room, she was fucking knew it because he was like, really, girl? I didn't even leave the room. And she was like, I don't. This isn't about you. That's what I'm saying. She is an icon.

Yes. Perhaps maybe mother of the year. She is not. No. But did she say that Lee Strasberg trained Teresa Russell say not not every man knows how to run ride my boat? Absolutely. Yes. And we stand. Yes, we we stand we have to hand it to her uh does this movie pass the Bechdel test I think so yeah between barely some people not as much as it should I honestly forgot to pay attention as per usual

let's let me triple check I would look back and then they would talk talk talking to me be like sam i'd be like god damn it shut up yeah i think right before the girls make out they are talking about mommy issues so that might be that might be the moment right before the the queer baiting we get feminism and then it's gone there's also that scene where the two girls go to the beach and suzy's like oh i thought we were gonna go somewhere else and the other one's like no i think we just like need to get wasted tonight and then they kiss and then sam shows up but like there are like small exchanges within larger conversation i think the larger conversations generally don't pass but like like individual. But the micro.

I kind of want to give it to this movie. I don't really know why. I'm on scholarlyjournalbectiltest.com. Of course. And there are a few that I think pass in the micro way, possibly not the macro way, but it allegedly passes in that scene you were just describing, Princess, between Neve Campbell and Denise Richards. And I guess it also passes between Denise Richards and her

mom at the beginning of their conversation where she's being asked why she's missing school. Right. And there's like a couple lines that pass before it's like oh did a boy hurt your feelings or like whatever Miss Lee Strasberg says. Yeah. Teresa Russell

herself. Yeah. It like sucks also that like the scene that passes it is also full of like ableist 90s slurs i'm just like oh yeah every time every time i hear the r word in the film like oh god it's like a flinch yeah it's like a visceral like oh god i forgot that used to be a thing that happened oh no and that happened all the time yes uh well hey how about that nipple scale of ours oh man so many nips zero to five nipples based on looking at the movie through an intersectional feminist lens i'm gonna get a nosebleed um i think i'll give the movie a half nipple okay mostly because

of the way the movie ends because for a long time i'm like oh no these girls are lying they're scheming then they get murdered so basically every bad thing that could possibly happen happens. But then it's like, wait a minute. Neve Campbell was the mastermind behind the whole thing. And she's a genius. And I'm like, okay, I do kind of like that. Although I could have sworn that the movie ended with Kelly coming back also, like her faking her death.

And it's the two of them like working together that would have been cool that would have been feminism that would have been that like and then it could have ended in a more bound way where they both live and then they leave and then this movie isn't really operating on bounds level let's say no so I misremembered that and it's just suzy but i'll give that ending a half nipple the rest of the movie is trash particularly how the movie basically reinforces this extremely harmful and sinister idea that survivors of rape are actually lying and making it all up for financial gain and to ruin the lives of quote unquote innocent men horrible thing to reinforce uh very gross and then all the other things we talked about just you know the exploitation and constant objectification of women's bodies and

all the other stuff yeah the The one cop who's a woman being the one leading the charge on disbelieving the other woman and being right. The list. Goes on. Just pee-pee-poo-poo. It's a clusterfuck.

Yeah. I would, down the line, watch this movie in a group. This would be a fun movie to watch in a group. Oh, yeah. A drinking game? Definitely. For every twist, you would die. the line watch this movie in a group this would be a fun movie to watch in a group oh yeah a drinking game definitely every twist you would die be dead yeah but i'll give the movie a half nipple even though i don't think it really deserves it and i will give that half nipple

i'll give it to the actor daphne ruben vega not the character she plays but the actor yeah she rocks absolutely I'll meet you there it feels wrong giving this movie nothing because it's doing so much it would feel it would feel mean but for the further reasons that we've been talking about for upwards of two hours now it is like this movie is kind of like like it creates all these trap doors to make it impossible to talk about but I think you know I think all

things considered we did we did a pretty good job because it's like well this almost made a point but then if you go back to the original plot point that two young girls are lying about assault that kind of makes all the points moot this movie is saying everything and nothing at the same time it made my head hurt truly in good and bad ways it it feels like the most erotic and thrilliest erotic thriller i have

maybe ever seen yeah i don't know that i necessarily have much to add to what we've already said, except that someone wrote a whole essay that's cited on Wikipedia that this is loosely based on a Greek tragedy. Yeah, that's a reach. I read that. Yeah. You're telling me that Matt Dillon is supposed to be Hippolytus. It just doesn't make sense but i think that that speaks to how baffling this movie is to like people need it to make sense in some way um by relating it to some of the oldest stories that exist on the planet um okay look i like how ultimately at the end someone says who says it oh it's Bill Murray much like E.T. he says be

good confusing I'm gonna give it half a nipple and I'm gonna um I guess you gave yours to Daphne Rubin Vega so she's so I'm gonna give mine to Teresa Russell and um and her landline telephone yes yes that's amazing I'm gonna put your two half nips together and make it into one full nipple only because i do appreciate nev being like this white man killed an indigenous person and so i'm gonna ruin his life and all the white people around fair absolutely and i'm like you know i can i can get down with that. And I think, you know, to quote from Macbeth, this this film is full of sound and fury, signifying nothing. And yet, I will admit, it got me sometimes I know that was kind of like, damn, they do look good,

though. I was I really talking to Jamie. I'm like, damn it they do look good, though. I was talking to Jamie. I'm like, damn it. I'm part of the problem. The sexy people do be sexy. Undeniable. It was definitely a thing where I was like, princess, you're watching this through a feminist lens. And I'm just like, and I'm like, yeah, this is not very bad. So you're watching respectfully.

Respectfully. So it's one respectful nipple. And I'm going to give it to Nev for being an ally for literally making the rich eat themselves and then walking away with a bunch of money into the sunset. Hell yes. Love that for her. Wish she didn't have to uplift sexist tropes to do it. Yeah. that for her wish she didn't have to you know uplift sexist tropes to do it yeah and and it it is such a fascinating cool inciting incident for the Daphne Rubin Vega character for her to

be avenging an indigenous friend and uh the fact that that is also a really interesting salient like super regional plot point too that is just dropped is garbage. All right. This movie was edited by a woman. Okay. That's my final drop of the episode. Well, I'm going to give her credit for making them look hot. And for putting that shot of the raccoon in the movie.

That's what I was going to say. Do you think a cis man could come up with something of that caliber not possible alright well princess thank you so much for coming back come back anytime I love this place I love talking to y'all I feel like

I get a mini film education just coming here and thank god for you Caitlin keeping our horny energy on on land you're like come on guys if it doesn't i could have gone to a really dark we could have ended that by being like so all things considered pretty good move yeah and caitlin through the power of alfred melina is like then let's remember reinforcing it and we're just like yes yeah caitlin you're right you're right you're right i am wearing the shirt that jamie designed for super yaki alfred melina my one true love so hopefully it comes back one day we'll see fingers crossed uh princess where can we find you on online tell us

where to find you there's a million places to find you let them know if i'm not seducing people by the pool i am on twitter at weeks princess and then i am on youtube as princess weeks and i also have podcasts now i did the it's lit on a bridge podcast for pbs and i currently co-host the netflix geek podcast with tessa netting we got to interview neil gaiman ever heard of him for sandman and like a lot of really fun talent and yeah it's just a pleasure to be to be seen be heard and be part of feminist history by being part of the Bechdel cast. We are kind of legendary. I mean, hello. We're no Steven Peters, but you know, we do rival

Peter Stevens. We're working on it. You guys will get there. I mean, like you will age and that's really all it takes to become Steven Peters. We will become progressively more and more out of touch with the youth of today we will achieve steven peter's level of cognitive dissonance about what teen girls are like actually

that might not be possible it's well but you can help us get to that that legend status by you know just following us on social media twitter and instagram at bechtel cast why don't you you know follow us and subscribe on whatever podcast platform and rate and review us while you're at us give us five nipples and then there's also of course our patreon aka matreon where we cover two bonus episodes every single month plus you get access to the back catalog and you'll hear such episodes as saw and others game over slam so check that out at patreon.com slash spectral cast it's five dollars a month. Well spent. Hell yes. You can also get our merch at tpublic.com.

We'll have new merch coming out soon. Look. Oh, my critics will say I haven't designed new merch in three years. Well, I've just been cooking up some little ideas. So don't worry about it. You be fine can't wait i will i'll have kevin's bacon but it's kevin the minion it's no i'm not doing porn i trust me there there's nothing left to be said in the world of sexualized minions. I have nothing to add to the conversation. It's been exhausted. She's exhausted. I'm tired.

Their cheeks are in the movie. We should have minions merch. It doesn't need to be sexy. We should have minions merch. I just got sidetracked by the possibilities. Princess, please come back. I will. I will definitely come back. I will. I will definitely come back.

Bring us something even scarier than this. Oh, my goodness. I mean, this is going to be hard to top, but boy, howdy, will I try. Well, with that, hey, be good. Be good. Be good, to quote famous character Bill Murray. Bye. Bye-bye. Bye. Bye-bye.

Bye. Daphne Caruana Galizia was a Maltese investigative journalist who on October 16th, 2017, was assassinated. Crooks Everywhere unnerves the plot to murder a one-woman WikiLeaks. She exposed the culture of crime and corruption that were turning her beloved country into a mafia state. Listen to Crooks everywhere on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. To listen to new episodes one week early and 100% ad-free,

subscribe to the iHeart True Crime Plus channel, available exclusively on Apple Podcasts. his research on brain function, behavior, and neuroplasticity, the brain's ability to adapt and rewire itself. The expectation on us is not perfection, it's being able to toggle between these different states. Listen to On Purpose with Jay Shetty on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Trust me, you won't want to miss this one. sister in seven years. I have a proposal for you. Come up here and document my project. All you need to do is record everything like you always do. What was that? That was live audio of a woman's nightmare. Can Kay trust her sister or is history repeating itself? There's nothing dangerous about what you're doing. They're just dreams. Dream Sequence is a new horror thriller from Blumhouse Television, iHeartRadio, and Realm. Listen to Dream Sequence on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.