The Bechdel Cast - Zoolander with Kenice Mobley

Episode Date: February 20, 2025

The Bechdel Cast is so hot on this episode where Jamie, Caitlin, and special guest Kenice Mobley discuss Zoolander (2001). Here is more information about the humanitarian crisis happening in the DRC - https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/2/21/a-guide-to-the-decades-long-conflict-in-dr-congo Follow Kenice on Instagram at @kenicemobley and check out her website at kenicemobley.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Hey, man, what are you into? I have the hookup. The hookup? The hookup for what? I'm solving a mystery through sex and haven't made a private dick joke until now? Poppers? Why are there so many poppers? All roads lead to... The hookup. You think it's causing people to turn aggro? I'm gonna rip your arms off and use them to... Yeah, that's a word for it.

Listen to The Hookup on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Hi, I'm Arturo Castro, and I've been lucky enough to do stuff like Broad City and Narcos and Roadhouse. And now I'm starting a podcast because honestly, guys, I don't feel the space is crowded enough. Get ready for Greatest Escapes, a new comedy podcast about the wildest true escape stories

in history. Each week I'll be sitting down with some of the most hilarious actors and writers and comedians, people like Ed Helms, Diane Guerrero, and Joseph Gordon-Levitt. I love storytelling and I love you, so I can't wait. Listen and subscribe to Greatest Escapes on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is John Cameron Mitchell and my new fiction podcast series, Cancelation Island, stars Holly Hunter as Karen, a wellness influencer who launches a rehab for the recently canceled. In the future, we will all be canceled for 15 minutes. But don't worry, we'll take you from broke to woke, or your money back.

Cancellation Island's revolutionary rehab therapies like Bad Touch Football, Anti-Racism Spin Class, and mandatory Ayahuasca ceremonies are designed to force the canceled to confront their worst impulses. But everything starts to fall apart when people start disappearing. Karen, where have you brought us? Cancellation Island, where a second chance might just be your last. Listen to Cancellation Island on the iHeartRadio app,

Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Catch Jon Stewart back in action on The Daily Show and in your ears with The Daily Show Ears Edition podcast. From his hilarious satirical takes on today's politics and entertainment to the unique voices of correspondents and contributors, it's your perfect companion to stay on top of what's happening now.

Plus, you'll get special content just for podcast listeners, like in-depth interviews and a roundup of the week's top headlines. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. On the PectoCast, the questions asked if movies have women in them. Are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands

Or do they have individualism The patriarchy's effin vast Start changing it with the Bechdel cast Hey Jamie Hey Caitlin The Bechdel cast is so hot right now Really? Tell me more Well it's... I have nothing else to say

Just that it's really hot right now. Oh, okay, well, good. Good, we need to make a living, I guess. Yeah, so true, so true. Anyway, hello and welcome to the very hot Bechtel cast right now. The sexiest Bechtel cast yet. Oh my gosh, so freaking sexy.

Unless, oh, Owen Wilson enters the Zoom and then we're in trouble. He might. But then we'll become friends. Oh my gosh. Welcome to the Zoolander episode of the Bechtel cast. My name's Jamie Loftus. My name is Caitlin Durante.

This is our show where we examine movies through an intersectional feminist lens using the Bechtel test as a jumping off point. But Jamie, what is that? Well, well, well, and I'm like, did Zoolator press it? Like, well, I- We'll figure it out. We'll figure it out.

I have it in my notes, but I watched it two days ago and literally my brain does not retain information for two days anymore. Okay, the Bechdel test is a media metric created by queer cartoonist, Alison Bechtel, often called the Bechtel Wallace test. Why? Because it was co-created by Liz Wallace.

So that makes sense. Lots of uses for this test. The one we use requires to pass two characters with names of a marginalized gender talking to each other about something other than a man. For two lines of dialogue or more, should be dialogue that moves the plot forward in some way. Ideally. Ideally, ideally, but if we like the movie, honestly we'll be like, eh, it kinda passes. Sure.

And if we hate the movie, even if it does pass, we'll be like, it doesn't pass. That is true. There are movies that have actually demonstrably passed that were like, but let's be serious. But spiritually, no. It doesn't. So it's more of a vibe at this point.

We've been doing this show for almost a decade. Truly. As you said, this is our Zoolander episode. We have a six time guest. Yeah. Wow, okay. I'm past jacket status. Yeah.

Yeah, we owe you a house or something. I'll take it. Missing honor? Come on. Right. Come on. She's a comedian. You've seen her on The Tonight Show,

Comedy Central, Netflix. She's gonna be doing her solo show at the Black Women in Comedy Festival on February 27th. She also, in addition to me, has a master's degree in film from Boston University. Yeah. And you've heard her on dozens of other episodes of ours. It's Kines Mobley. Hello.

Welcome back. I'm so happy to be here. I'm so happy to see your bright and shining faces. Oh my gosh. Hey, hey, Kinesse, welcome to the Bechtelcast Center for Kids Who Can't Podcast Good. What is this, a center for ads? Gosh.

Which I say in real life too often. It's a very quotable movie and tell us what your your relationship with the movie is, Kenise. Okay, so I had not watched this movie in five years and I rewatched it to discuss with you lovely ladies and to realize that big chunks of your personality came from a weird movie from 25 years ago. To just have to accept that about yourself is hard. You thought you were an individual creation sprung a whole cloth out of nothing. But no, you were just an amalgamation of other people's thoughts.

And that's OK. And that's OK. So this was a big movie of your earlier life. Yes, absolutely. I watched this. So it came out in 2001. I definitely watched this throughout high school. Definitely quoted it with my friends a lot because we all watched it. We were not cool, but this movie made us feel cool to one another. Nice. I love that. What about you guys? Yeah, Jamie, how about you? I'd never seen this. Can you believe it? I'd never seen Zoolander and I was approaching it with, I don't know, Ben Stiller has had such an interesting trajectory as a person where he is, I feel,

I mean, I don't know a lot about him personally, so hopefully there's not something scary, I don't know. But he is a nepo baby to root for, I think. I had never seen this, I was worried about it when I saw the year it was released, and you're like, well, how is this gonna age? And the answer is is certainly not perfectly, but better than I thought.

There is like an element of timelessness to this movie. It was like saying more than, I feel like that is such a hard needle to thread in broad comedies like this, where it's like, this movie is saying something, but it's not like bonking you over the head with it, which is hard to do. I don't know, I was like very, very, very into this movie.

I have not seen the sequel, which I hear is very transphobic. Yeah, I hear that the sequel is garbage, but this is my entry, and probably exit, because it sounds like the sequel's bad, into the Zoolander expanded universe. And I was into it. I liked Derek.

I love him bows, you know? Like we just need to get the, if we truly get the him bows on our side, if we can get the him bows out to some protests, we're cooking. And I feel like that is, it actually made me think about la protests a lot Where it's like you just got to get the him bo's, you know activated in the right direction

It helps I volunteered with many derrick zoolander in my day. Yes I want I have been a bookish lady my whole life, but I love a dumb jock hunk And that has been a fun part of my life for years. I'm pro that. But they have a gasoline fight with their mouths open. Their mouths are open during that gasoline fight. He gets sprayed with water from somebody driving by. And then he goes home. Notice he does not at any point wash his face or take off his jacket that was dripping

with New York City street water and then just lays in his bed. I do like that this would be, there were certain moments of this movie where I didn't see coming, such as seeing a young Alexander Skarsgard blow up. Yeah. Was not ready for that.

I was like, woof, wow, interesting. Oh, you mean Meekus? I guess so. That's Meekus. And I was just like, I was like squint that. I was like, woof, wow, interesting. Oh, you mean Meekus? I guess so. That's Meekus. I was just like squinting at the screen, like, hold on, there's no way. Yes, there's a way. But there is a way.

And then he's dead two minutes later. It's so wild. Yeah, I don't know. I mean, there's some stuff about this movie that doesn't age well, such as Andy Dick in general. But I was impressed with this movie. I really enjoyed it. Caitlin, what's your history with Zoolander? My history is similar to

Kinesis in that I watched this movie a lot in the early to mid 2000s. The little cough that Derek Zoolander does where he's just like, I'll just do that sometimes in life. I liked it because I think, again, not all of the humor holds up, certainly, but enough of it does that I'm like, okay, you're actually saying something here. It reminds me of Josie and the Pussycats, another one of my favorite movies,

because it's about conspiracies hidden in the entertainment industry that exists to manipulate or exploit people. And so they're very similar movies to me. So I think this is just like a subgenre that I enjoy. Yeah, that like came out during a very specific time because their aesthetics are very similar to like they're both super. I mean, this is like the most boring complaint to make about movies, when like, wow these movies are so colorful, movies aren't colorful anymore. So I love this movie, you know, as a young adult but then I stopped watching it. I hadn't seen it in probably like 10 or more years, so there's a pretty big gap and I couldn't remember all the

things about it. Certainly there were jokes that I was like, oh yeah, we'll talk about them. But overall this movie does hold up better than you might expect. So let's take a quick break and then we'll come back and do the recap. Yeah. Do you remember what you said the first night I came over here? How goes lower? I met Santi at a luau party in October. I'm Santi. Damien.

Oh, it was bizarre. The guy just disappeared one day. Santi has been missing ever since. The hookup. What is that? I'm solving a mystery through sex and haven't made a private dick joke until now? Like, no matter how hard I try, all roads lead to... The hookup.

You think it's causing people to turn aggro? I'm gonna rip your arms off and use them to f- Yeah, that's a word for it. This is such terrible representation, I'm so sorry. Poppers? These aren't just any poppers. Mama always used to say, God gave me gumption in place of a gag reflex. No, not my psychiatrist didn't laugh at that one either.

Listen to The Hookup on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Hi, I'm Arturo Castro, and I've been lucky enough to do stuff like Broad City and Narcos and Roadhouse and so many commercials about back pain. And now I'm starting a podcast because honestly, guys, I don't feel the space is crowded enough. Get Ready for Greatest Escapes, a new comedy podcast about the wildest true escape stories in history. Each week I'll be sitting down with some of the most hilarious actors and writers and comedians to tell them a buckwild tale from across history and time.

People like Ed Helms, Diane Guerrero, Joseph Gordon-Levitt, and Zoe Chow. Titanic. Charles Manson. Alcatraz. Sarah Shacor. The sketchy guy named Steve. It's giving funny true crime. I love storytelling and I love you, so I can't wait.

Listen and subscribe to Greatest Escapes on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is John Cameron Mitchell and my new fiction podcast series, Cancellation Island, stars Holly Hunter as Karen, a wellness influencer who launches a rehab for the recently canceled. In the future, we will all be canceled for 15 minutes, but don't worry, we'll take you from broke to woke, or your money back. Cancellation Island's revolutionary rehab therapies like Bad Touch Football, Anti-Racism Spin Class,

and mandatory Ayahuasca ceremonies are designed to force the canceled to confront their worst impulses. But everything starts to fall apart when people start disappearing. Karen, where have you brought us? Cancellation Island, where a second chance might just be your last. Listen to Cancellation Island on the iHeartRadio app,

Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Mary Kay McBrayer, host of the podcast, The Greatest True Crime Stories Ever Told. Join me every week as I tell some of the most enthralling true crime stories about women who are not just victims, but heroes or villains or often somewhere in between. Listen to The Greatest True Crime Stories Ever Told on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And we're back. And here's the recap for Zoolander. Oh, right. I forgot to say, there's also the Donald Trump cameo jump scare. That is in my notes as well.

You did not love to see it. I can't believe I brought up, I mean, to me personally, Donald Trump and Andy Dick are comparably evil. Andy Dick just has less power. But yeah, there are some of history's greatest monsters that make cameo appearances in this movie. I was just like, genuinely I was enjoying it so much and then it was like, when Trump showed up I was like,

no, not in, oh no, he's in the past too, he exists everywhere. Well, cause he was in- Caitlin and I were talking about this recently where it's like if Donald Trump makes so many cameos during sort of this 10 year period, but also, Caitlin, when you're talking about Gremlins 2 and you're like so many villains over like a period

of 40 years in movies are clearly mapped on him too. Yeah, Biff in Back to the Future 2 is very clearly mapped onto Donald Trump. He does a cameo in Home Alone 2 famously. He has a cameo in Little Rascals. If anyone remembers that. I do, I do remember that. He's just in movies and now he's our fascist

American president and you hate to see it. You know what cameo is awesome though and holds up amazingly well, Billy Zane. I, yeah, however many nipples I end up giving, spoiler alert, they're all going, Billy Zane. I, yeah. Yes. However many nipples I end up giving, spoiler alert. They're all going in. They're all going to Billy Zane. He slays this.

This also starts a pattern in his career of him, he's very open to making cameos as himself, which understandably many actors aren't, but Billy Zane, you know, he's one of us. He's got like, Billy Zane, and I can say the insider Hollywood info, Billy Zane sits with the crew. He's not of us. He's got like Billy Zane, and I can say insider Hollywood info, Billy Zane sits with the crew. He's not a diva.

He's not a diva. He's nice. What's he been doing? Oh, he's been, well he's playing, oh who is he playing in an upcoming movie? He's in a biopic soon. Is he Marlon Brando in a movie? I think he might be playing Marlon Brando.

I really think that the Zayn-a-sance is going to come upon us because we, like he's very, very talented. I think he got so typecast after Titanic in a way that was like hard to bounce back from, but he's a great comic actor, he's a great dramatic actor. The guy can read the room. I just, I want.

His features are striking. Like, I know that's weird to say, especially in a movie about male models, but of the people in this movie, I'm like, damn Billy Zane, turn it down. His resting face is just magnum. He has magnum resting face. He, oh man, I just love that damn Billy Zane.

He has such riz and it's not fair because they, I think they like hot him down in Titanic because he has to be next to young Leo. They put on like the weird eye makeup that is like vaudeville villain coated or whatever. And like a weird hair flip that I'm like, is that his actual hair? Is that, cause it looks like a wig on top.

Like it's just, I don't like it. You guys are the Titanic experts, but. Thank you. But when they let him go bald mode, you're like, this is, this is a beautiful man. I mean, he's just, yeah, he's going to play. Caitlin, I think you're right. Yes, he's playing this year.

He's playing Marlon Brando in Waltzing with Brando alongside John Heater, AKA Napoleon Dynamite, and Richard Dreyfuss. I don't know, no accounting for it. I thought Richard Dreyfuss was dead. This also comes as a surprise to me. No, he's 77, he's alive and well

in the upcoming Marlon Brando, Billy Zane biopic. Wow. Look at God. This is just wild. Fascinating. Anyway, here's what happens in the movie, Zoolander. All right, all right. Okay, we open on a news story about the new prime minister of Malaysia,

promising to raise the minimum wage and to end child labor once and for all. Watching this news story is a group of fashion industry moguls who rely on exploited child labor in sweatshops in countries like Malaysia to make a profit. And so they want a fashion designer named Jacobin Mugatu, played by Will Ferrell, to find someone to kill the Prime Minister of Malaysia when he visits New York City in two weeks, which coincides with Fashion Week. This is a perfect use of Will Ferrell, I feel. Yes, I agree. Perfect use ofvil Feral. But I also love the idea that like everyone agrees child labor is bad because we're not there anymore. And we have people on the Republican

side arguing that kids deserve the right to work. Yeah, Bill's character. Yeah. So genuinely to watch this, it's like, oh no, some of the people who saw this were like, ha ha. Yes, we should give children jobs. Like, I look, I have a whole field that I'm going to go into. I'm going to talk about the DRC. It's holding. Bear with me for that. But no, I mean, but that's like covertly what this movie is trying to get you to think about too. It's really, this is gonna come up an annoying amount of times because I watched Network for the first time over the weekend. I don't know why, but it was just my time.

I just felt like it. I mean, you're mad as hell and you're not gonna take it anymore. I mean, I'm probably gonna choose it for the matriarch for my birthday, because what a movie. It's so good. But I feel like it's like starting a weirdly similar discussion to what you were just saying,

Kenise, of like everyone behind closed doors is like, well yeah, obviously this is horrible, but should we do it? And like it is weirdly like gratifying to see that behind closed doors, no matter how gaslit you are as a normal person, they know it's bad. They just are trying to decide if it's advantageous to care or not.

Right. So anyway, this is their plan. They need an assassin to kill the Prime Minister of Malaysia and the ideal candidate to do this would be a shallow, empty-headed dimwit. Cut to Derek Zoolanderander played by Ben Stiller, a shallow empty headed dimwitted male model who is being interviewed by an investigatory journalist Matilda Jeffries played by Christine Taylor aka Ben Stiller's real life his wife.

Yeah. And didn't know didn't know. Christine Taylor, AKA Ben Stillers, real life, his wife. Yeah, didn't know, didn't know. Oh really, yeah. Yeah. They've been married for a while. Forever, yeah. Derek tells her that he is known for his signature look, blue steel,

though he's working on another look called magnum, though it's not yet perfected, it's not ready yet. Then it's the night of the VH1 Fashion Awards. Derek Zulander is expecting to win male model of the year for the fourth year in a row. Also, there is Derek's rival, an up and coming male model named Hansel, played by Owen Wilson, who is so hot right now. I say that all the time. That so and so is so hot right now. I say that all the time. That so and so is so hot right now

and I didn't think about it again until I watched this. I'm sorry, okay. I feel like, wait, what is the Bill Hader character? Stephane, it's like Stephane exists to me in the Zoolander expanded universe. Without Zoolander, we would not have Stephane. I think so, yeah. Accurate.

Yeah. So the male model of the year award goes to Hansel, who is so hot right now, but Derek just assumes that he won, so he goes on stage to accept the award, he makes a fool of himself, and Mugatu realizes, oh, he's the guy we need to carry out this assassination. So Mugatu approaches Derek's manager agent, Maury Ballstein, played by Jerry Stiller, aka Ben Stiller's real life, his father. Meanwhile, Derek is on stage, he's humiliated, he's starting to think that maybe there's more to life than being really, really ridiculously good looking. I love when a himbo, it's just so charming when a himbo is like

is there much more than this provincial life and you're like King yes there is yes there is follow me. But his three male model roommates Rufus, Brent and Mikus, every character name in this movie is perfect. So good. Yeah. They aren't really listening they They're more focused on going out for orange mocha frappuccinos. But then the three roommates die in a gas station accident slash explosion. Freak gasoline fight accident. I feel like it's like for this scene I was like, okay, I'm just it's satire. I don't know. I don't know these guys. I wonder I would actually be really curious I have like what models think of this movie

I feel like my my feeling is they probably embraced it, but I'm curious. I don't know You do you know I Know model you would know models Caitlin. I okay. this is the most LA thing I've ever done or said. Wow. But my trainer is a model slash actor slash trainer. And I told him we were covering this movie and he's like, I love the movie, Zoolander. Yes, okay.

Okay, good. This makes me feel better about it, yes. I just tried to put myself in the mind space of like, if someone made a movie presenting standup comics as brain dead, I would have no issue with it because like, there's some truth to that, you know? I prefer them do that than what they do, which is like, hey, I get up there and I was drunk

and I tried standup once and I'm the best in the world. And then write five seasons of a TV show about whatever. But I just, I think that depictions are not funny. So yes, this is better. Oh, and I wanted to say, I know I've mentioned this before, but okay. So they're going at the car wash. You do not like this scene. It bothers me so much. They're using the wiper stuff, like the, hey, wipe off your windshield. And they start flinging that at each other's bodies, gross,

with their mouths open, ew. And then how cheap is gas that they're like, we're gonna fill up this car. We're also gonna spray gasoline all over the place. It was 2001, it was like a dollar 50 a gallon. I guess the gas was free then? Yeah. Oh my God, sorry.

It just, and your mouth is open the whole time. Like the taste, ugh. What I'm, I guess I'm trying to put myself in 2001 brain. And I feel like even though like the whole like gender swapping stuff is pretty dated, a concept at this point, I feel like it had to have been pretty subversive at the time to present hot men as vapid

in a way that we usually see hot women presented. Yes. I don't know. True. But I was watching Shrek in 2001, so I don't know. Never forget. I was watching Shrek in 2001, so I don't know. Never forget. Okay, so there's this gas station explosion,

and at the funeral, while Derek is giving his YouGoogly, Derek announces that he's retiring from male modeling. He wants to do more meaningful work that helps people maybe even open up the Derek Zulander Center for Kids Who Can't Read Good. His agent, Morrie, tells him he can't retire more meaningful work that helps people maybe even open up the Derek Zulander Center for Kids Who Can't Read Good. His agent, Mori, tells him he can't retire because Mugatu, who has never hired Derek before, finally wants him for his new campaign.

But Derek refuses and goes back home to coal mining country New Jersey where his family lives. His dad played by John Voigt and two brothers played by Vince Vaughn and Judah Friedlander who I don't think say any lines of dialogue really. I think Vince Vaughn maybe speaks once. Yeah, Judah Friedlander is a glorified extra. I did not that was juda freedlander that's juda that's what he looks like without a hat and the hair out the sides that's what he looks like and the glasses yeah right i i like that they all have the same resting face so much of this movie is so funny to me and just so good anyway they're ashamed of of Derek and his job because he's not living up to their rigid gender expectations of being hyper masculine

So eventually Derek returns to the city to accept Mugatu's offer which includes a miniature prototype of the Derek Zulander Center for Kids Who Can't Read Good and This is when Derek says what this, a center for ants? It'll have to be at least three times bigger than this. It's funny. It's funny. I can't help it. It's funny. So funny. Meanwhile, Matilda Jeffries, the journalist, is trying to talk to Mugatu about his exploitation of child

labor in Malaysia, but she can't get access to Mugatu. Then she receives an anonymous phone call from a mysterious person telling her to keep digging and to go to Pier 12. And you're like, surely this isn't David Duchuffe. Surely not. Then Mugatu shows Derek his designs for the Fashion Week show, a campaign called Dera Leaked, which we'll talk about. There's interesting satire going on here.

Mugatu and his minion, Katinka, played by Mila Jovovich, start getting Derek ready for the show. Mila Jovovich is giving very Parker Posey and Josie and the Pussycats going off of your comparison. I would say so. I think she's so funny in this and she got trapped in this weird vampire killy business for like 20 years. I think maybe she's still trapped there. Then I don't think they let her out of the Resident Evil box. Oh, it's clear that she's like very funny here. Well, she has like I think earlier in her career, she was doing like really weird to collect. I mean, like she's great in the fifth element, even though that movie does not give her much to do.

But she's like good at being weird and silly and yeah, free her, free her. Yes, so anyway, Katinka takes Derek to a quote unquote, day spa, which is actually just a brainwashing facility. And they start brainwashing Derek to kill the prime minister of Malaysia when the song relax comes on. That's the trigger that will get him to to go into a homicidal rage basically. Matilda shows up to Pier 12, which turns out to be the location of this quote unquote spa,

but Katinka immediately throws Matilda out and comments on her outfit saying it's from Kmart. Wow, very 2001 insults. Do we even have Kmarts anymore? Yeah, I was like, do kids even know what Kmarts are these days? I think there might be one left. There's like a husk of a Kmart in my hometown.

It's very sad. It's just like, it's just a big scary, haunted, liminal space. Anyway, we cut to Derek waking up in his bed, and he thinks this whole thing was a dream. But Matilda shows up at his door and she tells him that he's been missing for a week and that the derelict show is tomorrow night. Then she discovers that several male models who have worked with Mugatu in the past have died in freak accidents, and that Mugatu's the past have died in freak accidents and that Mugatu's

minion Katinka is in all of the photographs of the like crime scenes. So she realizes that Derek is in danger and she heads to the pre-show party that Derek is at to warn him at the party where Billy Zane is there, he's playing himself, he's friends with Derek Zoolander. He's an ally to Derek. He really is. Yes. Hansel shows up and he and Derek are still beefing. So they decide to settle this on the runway with a walk off with a David Bowie cameo.

He's like the referee. Sure. Derek is humiliated by Hansel once again, when Hansel wins the walk off by taking his underwear off without removing his pants. And we're like, exactly. Then Matilda approaches Derek to be like, Hey, there's a male modeling conspiracy and you're in danger. Then they head to a cemetery after Matilda receives another call from that mystery person who turns out to be

former hand model JP Pruitt played by David Duchufny. Just like poetry. Poetry is so great. It's amazing. He tells them that the fashion industry has been behind every major political assassination for the past 200 years. And behind every hit was a male model who is then killed to cover everything up. And JP Pruitt tells them that they can find evidence for all of this on Maury Balstein's computer because he's in on it too. Suddenly they are attacked by Mugatu's minions. So Derek and Matilda escape and they need to find somewhere safe for Derek to hide and they realize the last place that anyone would look for him would be Hansel's house. and they realized the last place that anyone would look for him would be Hansel's house. So they show up at Hansel's. Derek and Hansel air their grievances and admit that they're

actually intimidated by each other and other friends and Hansel welcomes them to his home. Then there's a scene where Matilda confides in them about why she doesn't like models. We'll talk about this later because there's a lot to unpack here. But this culminates in Derek, Hansel, Matilda, plus some other people having group sex. I think they're all drinking ayahuasca or something and they're just getting freaky and horny with each other. And Derek and Matilda in particular are really vibing. Yeah. Hansel's kind of along for the ride. Right. He's watching slash also participating. Yeah. The next day is the big

derelict show when Derek is going to be forced to assassinate the Prime Minister of Malaysia. So they have to figure out how they're going to stop this from happening. Hansel and Derek disguise themselves as people of different races. Yes. Okay, yeah, there's my, like, my heart wilted at the sight of this

because the movie was doing so well generally and then this happens and you're like, you've gotta be fucking kidding me. One of those guys, the black guy is a comedian. Godfrey. He's still around, Godfrey, yeah. He still looks very much the same. Man, he has not aged. He looks great, especially, yeah, 25 years later.

But damn, it's hard to see him there. And you're like, hi. It's not fair to him. No, I don't love this implication. I don't love it. No, no. And then you remember, you know, Tropic Thunder and you're like, oh, wait a minute, Ben Stiller.

This is kind of Ben Stiller's thing. It's kind of his thing. Weird, weirdo. Very weird. So yeah, they are now in disguises as people of different races. At the very least, they cast different actors. Yes.

But then later you see Ben Stiller and Owen Wilson partially in black and brown face. And then so yes, it is horrible. Doesn't, yeah, it doesn't work. Very bad. Anyway, they are able to get inside Morrie's office, but they don't know how to use computers. There's this whole 2001, a Space Odyssey reference

where they're like kind of banging on one of those huge desktops from 2001. And before they figure out how to access the evidence, Derek has to leave to get to his show. Meanwhile, Matilda figures out that the trigger is the song Relax after learning that Mugatu used to be in, was it the band Frankie Goes to Hollywood? That's who wrote Relax, right? So yeah.

Anyway, they booted him out. Yeah, it was like slightly too dated for me. I'm like, mm, I'm sure this was funny in 2001, but hard to say. Right, anyway, he was in a band, but he got booted out before they recorded their hit song, Relax, and so he's very bitter toward them. He also invented the piano key necktie,

and that's what launched his fashion career. Now that's funny. And that's comedy. Yes. Anyway, so Matilda figures out that that's like the trigger song. Then the Dera leaked show starts. The prime minister of Malaysia is there as Mugatu's special guest. Derek comes on stage. The DJ starts playing the song, Relax. The DJ is Justin Theroux. And it's Justin Theroux. Yeah. An unrecognizable Justin Theroux.

Yeah, had no idea until looking at Wikipedia earlier today. So the song starts playing. Derek is about to attack the prime minister, but then Hansel swoops in. There's a whole fight scene where Hansel battles DJ Justin Theroux. They keep switching the music back and forth. And then eventually they expose Mugatu

and the whole conspiracy to brainwash Derek into assassinating the Malaysian prime minister. Maury Balstein confirms this is all true. And Mugatu is like, fine, if you're not gonna kill the prime minister, I'll do it myself. And he's about to kill him. But then Derek saves the prime minister

with his new look, Magnum, which blows everyone away. And everyone's so proud of him. Even Derek's father back in New Jersey. Because at the end of the day, what are movies about fathers and sons? Yes. Okay. So then we cut to a little later. The Derek Zulander Center for Kids Who Can't Read Good and Want to Learn to Do Other Stuff Good too has opened. His friends are teachers there. Derek and Matilda have gotten together and they have a kid, Derek Jr., who is an aspiring male model because he does a little look. And that's pretty much the end of the movie.

So let's take another quick break and we'll come back to discuss. Let's take another quick break and we'll come back to discuss. That was bizarre. The guy just disappeared one day. Santi has been missing ever since. The hookup. What is that? I'm solving a mystery through sex and haven't made a private dick joke until now? Like, no matter how hard I try, all roads lead to... The hookup. You think it's causing people to turn aggro? I'm gonna rip your arms off and use them to f-

Yeah, that's a word for it. This is such terrible representation, I'm so sorry. Poppers? These aren't just any poppers. Mama always used to say, God gave me gumption in place of a gag reflex. No. My psychiatrist didn't laugh at that one either. Listen to The Hookup on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

Hi, I'm Arturo Castro, and I've been lucky enough to do stuff like Broad City and Narcos and Roadhouse and so many commercials about back pain. And now I'm starting a podcast because honestly, guys, I don't feel the space is crowded enough. Get Ready for Greatest Escapes, a new comedy podcast about the wildest true escape stories in history. Each week I'll be sitting down with some of the most hilarious actors and writers and comedians to tell them a buckwild tale from across history and time. People like Ed Helms, Diane Guerrero, Joseph Gordon-Levitt, and Zoe Chao. Titanic. Charles Manson.

Alcatraz. Asada Shakur. The sketchy guy named Steve. It's giving funny true crime. Joey Chow. Titanic. Charles Manson. Alcatraz. Asada Shakur. The sketchy guy named Steve. It's giving funny true crime. I love storytelling and I love you, so I can't wait. Listen and subscribe to Greatest Escapes on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is John Cameron Mitchell and my new fiction podcast series, Cancellation Island, stars

Holly Hunter as Karen, a wellness influencer who launches a rehab for the recently canceled. In the future, we will all be canceled for 15 minutes, but don't worry, we'll take you from broke to woke or your money back. Cancellation Island's revolutionary rehab therapies like Bad Touch Football, Anti-Racism Spin Class and Mandatory Ayahuasca Ceremonies are designed to force the canceled to confront their worst impulses. But everything starts to fall apart when people start disappearing. Karen, where have you brought us?

Cancellation Island, where a second chance might just be your last. Listen to Cancellation Island on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Mary Kay McBrayer, host of the podcast, The Greatest True Crime Stories Ever Told. Join me every week as I tell some of the most enthralling true crime stories about women who are not just victims, but heroes or villains, or often somewhere in between. Listen to the greatest true crime stories ever told on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

And we're back. Where to begin? I've moved. Where to begin? I guess we could start with the few women in this movie. Where to begin? I, ooh, where to begin? I guess we could start with the few women in this movie, where, I don't know, I mean, what did we think? I thought the Milla Jovovich character was really fun, probably a little underused, like could have had,

because it's just fresh, because she's giving such a fun performance, but the movie really only has interested in her at plot useful times versus building out much for her to do. We don't really know anything about her outside of that. And then unfortunately, Christine Taylor, it's not her fault, but I just, I feel like this exact character exists

in a lot of movies around this era. Unfortunately, I am thinking of the Master of Disguise, where you're like, listen, which for some reason is a movie I have seen many times in spite of not seeing Zoolander. Doesn't make sense. But I'm gonna try to boil down. It's like, just, she's too normal,

and everyone else is a cartoon character in this movie except her and she's like And I think that that's the joke But I also don't think it's fair to the actor and it's not a particularly memorable character And I don't like it There are so many movies of this time and I thought this is what you're gonna say where a woman There is a journalist to cover the thing the man is doing. And of course, she will end up sleeping with one of the people in the movie. Like that happened over and over again, even up until like train wreck or there was a movie about Tag called Tag.

Oh, I saw that. Where it was the one where Jeremy Renner broke his arms. Good. No, I don't know. I think so, yeah. I'm pretty sure as a Renner historian, I'm pretty... I don't like him. I hate Jeremy Renner. I hate him.

He sucks. I hate him so like... He sucks. And it was only confirmed like he did some things that were annoying or something, but I was like, no, I'm only celebrating this because deep down, I didn't like that guy. But yes, tag, where Jeremy Renner broke his arm. But in that, they write a woman just to be a journalist, air quotes, to follow these guys around

and then eventually sleep with one of them. And you're totally right. I think that that happens a lot across rom-coms as well, where like, yeah, it's a comedies and rom-coms often. It's like, okay, well, feminism happened, so we can't just like have a woman not have a job, but how can we create a character that is just disproportionately interested

in what this guy is up to? I think that's, yeah, that's, I don't think we've ever really honed in on that on this show, yeah, that's totally true. And to your point, Jamie, it means that she's, and I get it, like in a comedy movie, there's often like the straight man to emphasize the comedic hijinks.

But if you only have two women in the movie, like that's where it's like, okay. And there are moments where she's like reacting to something absurd where like she kind of gets the laugh or like her reaction is like oh haha I agree with her because they did something ridiculous but even so like it means that she isn't given the opportunity to show like comedic chops quite the same way as all of the other characters who are predominantly men.

Yeah it's maybe like an obvious observation but like in this movie that's written by three men that I do think has Some stuff to say about masculinity, but I was not shocked that there's only two women characters One is an underutilized comedic character and the other is a pretty I think dully written love interest for sure There's a there's another it's not a character and it's not a cameo because it's not a famous person. They made someone look the worst they've ever looked and they played the masseuse. And I just, that stuck out to me.

I was like- That's Andy Dick. That's Andy Dick. That's Andy Dick? Yeah. Yeah. Oh my God. I was like, wait, they have three women on screen

at the same time? That's wild. No, that's Andy Dick. No, they don't. Nevermind, nevermind. I take it back. I will take every opportunity to just declare Andy Dick one of the world's worst people.

I hate that motherfucker and it's personal. Okay. But it is a very tired joke where it's either, regardless of the gender of the actor, sometimes it is a man, sometimes it's a woman, but it's someone in so much makeup and prosthetics, and the character is almost always a woman, where it's like, look how hideous this old hag is,

and isn't that comedy? Yeah, the drag being used where drag is the punchline as opposed to like, yeah. Yes. So yeah, not great when it comes to the characters who are women. Unfortunately, I don't really have much to say about those characters outside of that

because we're not really given that much. There's a couple of times when Zoolander talks to the investigatory journalist, which I thought investigatory was a word for a long time. It's not, right? Is it not? I think it's an investigative journalist. Yeah, investigative journalist.

But I just say it really quickly because I'm always like, shit, I'm doing it wrong. But someone said that to me, I would be like, yeah, that sounds like a word. Sure, yeah, yeah. But when Balls talks to her when she's asking a question, he's like, you'd look pretty good if you had a push-up bra, and we're supposed to like a word. Sure, yeah, yeah. But when Balls talks to her when she's asking a question, he's like, you'd look pretty good if you had a pushup bra. And we're supposed to like this guy.

I was like, this guy who smacks his secretary's butt and is talking about his penis all the time, I was like, I hate this person. But so she's like, okay, and she doesn't say anything then. And then when she's trying to tell him, you've been missing for a week, he's like, hey, you have pattern dryness around your scalp because you're pulling your hair too tight, may I?

And then he pulls her hair out of a ponytail and stuff. And he's like, wow, you look better. And she's like smiling like, oh, thanks, I do look better, don't I? And I'm like, why would she stand for any of this? Why? I don't know. There's that, there's the scene where she tells

them her backstory. Oh, yeah. So, okay. Earlier in the movie, when Derek is talking to his male model friends about wanting to help people, and they're like, models do help people, we make people feel good about themselves and teach them how to wear their hair in interesting ways. The irony being that the entire beauty industry is predicated on making people feel bad about themselves so that they can capitalize on people's insecurities and sell them shit and all of that. That might be an oversimplification but it's largely that. Either way we find out the reason that Matilda

does not like models when she shares her backstory, because she describes that when she was a kid, she was bullied for being fat, and she felt all this pressure to live up to these impossible Western beauty standards that were perpetuated by the models she saw in magazines, and from that she developed an eating disorder. And she shares this with these two guys who completely trivialize her experience. She is clearly frustrated that they're not taking her seriously, but then the scene quickly moves on to her sex life.

Which is so, I mean, again, clearly a story written by three men. Because it's like, again, because it's like that could be an interesting conversation. But the movie just tells you they're like, but we don't this interesting thing we said, we actually don't care that we said it. It's like, well, then why did you say it? Then why did you say it? Right. At the very least, Derek does apologize to her a few scenes later.

That's true. It is while he's in blackface. So it's just like, well. Yeah. I also noted that. I was like, I'm gonna say that it does not count. It does not count. Right.

There's a conversation to be had about this and the movie almost starts to have that conversation but then is like nevermind. Which is interesting because it's like again that would totally fit into other points the movie is trying to make about like what is the point of the beauty industry like is there any positive to it? Where is the source of like evil and dysfunction within it. Continuing on that line of thought would be like very well placed, but again, they're just like, nah. Right, well, so some of the characters who are doing

and saying problematic things in the movie is a part of the satire that's criticizing the fashion industry and showing how toxic of an environment this could be. I think the whole Dera Leaked campaign is like, look at how the fashion industry- We got to in general. Yes. Like everything he does. Yeah. Everything about how using homelessness as an aesthetic for a fashion show, that's satire. I'm not saying it's handled perfectly, but show, that's satire.

I'm not saying it's handled perfectly, but at least that's clear. But it's not like, it's not endorsing that obviously. Right, right, right, right, right. There are other moments where a character makes fat shaming remarks, such as when Mugatu tells a model to lose weight immediately,

that are satirical representations of the unrealistic beauty and body standards within modeling and within the fashion industry. Again, not handled the most effectively in this movie, but... Also, yeah, is there anyone in this movie that isn't traditionally attractive? Right, I mean, that was something that I... Not that I noticed, and, like, again, just going back to, I don't know,

I feel like part of why the Christine Taylor character, it's like, well, but she's not fat anymore. And that is, I feel like something we see, especially during this era of movies when fatness is even referenced in the story, it's in the past tense as if it were in the present tense, they would not be in the movie, which in this movie appears to be true.

I don't know. Like it's just, and like going back to that talking point, again, like from that character, Matilda, I am just gonna keep calling her Christine Taylor. That is like such a clear opportunity for satire. I don't know why they just gave it up. I at least, I guess not for nothing, I'm glad that at least the body shaming aspects

were explicitly referenced by a character, but yeah, it just doesn't go anywhere. Yeah, yeah, so you have examples of, again, characters saying problematic things as part of the satire, but then you also just have like, it was 2001. And this is what we thought was comedy back then, because you have things like, there are a few instances of ableist's language and slurs being thrown around. There are transphobic remarks.

Which apparently get worse as the series goes on. Which. Horrifying. Again, yeah, can't speak to it, but. There's sexual assault in the workplace being played as a joke. You mentioned that, Kenise. There are examples of little people or people of color

where them simply being on screen or examples of little people or people of color, where them simply being on screen is the punchline of a joke, like when they show up in the group sex scene, there is the black and brown face that we discussed. Which Ben Stiller will be a big proponent of well into this decade. Yes.

Because Tropic Thunder was what, like 2007 or something? Something around then, yeah, yes. So there are jokes that age horribly and are not there as any part of like satirical social commentary. It's just, it was 2001. But then there's other moments where the movie is like commenting on expectations of masculinity

like when Derek returns to coal mining New Jersey and his brothers and especially his dad are ashamed of Derek and his job because you know being a male model doesn't live up to their rigid expectations of masculinity. And they want him to work on quote unquote manly job, like working in a coal mine. And it's like in the goofiest way possible, which is great, like I don't know, all the family jokes. Like John Voight is, being John Voight is the worst part of it.

But outside of that, like basically no notes, Like being John Voight is the worst part of it. But outside of that, basically no notes, at the end where there's that very offhand resolution where he's watching, they think that in the New Jersey coal mine bars, they would watch it. Yes, it's also so great. They're watching Fashion Week. He's like, that's my son.

Where are they watching this? I love it, I love it. They're like, well yeah, it's kind of the big game of fashion. Yeah. It's like on all of the TVs. It's over the sports. Forget sports.

It's the got to derelict campaign. Love it. Love it. It's comedy. They don't even do that for the Victoria's Secret show anymore. Okay. Yeah. You have to be like an Amazon Prime subscriber or some shit now.

Like no. Oh, wow. I love the part where Derek's like, all I ever wanted was to make you proud, pop. And John Voight is like, with what, your male modeling, prancing around with your wiener hanging out? I thank the Lord that your mother never lived to see her son as a mermaid.

And then Derek goes, merman. You're like, yes. Merman. That is comedy. Anyway, again, not handled super thoughtfully in the movie. It is the beginning of a conversation. Yeah, but it's like, that one I felt like is like, I think that that's the best this movie could do on that subject while like maintaining the tone of the movie. I wasn't mad about it. Fair. The other thing that I was like pleasantly surprised by

upon this rewatch was the scene where Derek and Hansel talk through why they've been beefing and they admit to feeling threatened by each other because Derek's like, yeah, I'm getting older and my career is winding down and you're young and your career is just getting started. And Hansel's like, they're like the same age. I think that like two or three years apart, but yeah, yeah, that's very funny. Um, but yeah, Hansel is like, well, I'm intimidated by you because you're such a legend and it's difficult to live in

your shadow and they hug it out and they become friends. But it's just like so rare to see in a movie, adult men talk through their issues and talk about their feelings, especially like feelings of vulnerability and they're admitting to being intimidated by each other by another man. Like, I was just like, wow, you don't see this very much, especially in 2001. I really, yeah, I'm so, I wish I could, well, I don't wish I could talk to a man in 2001. But I'm curious how that was read at the time,

because I also really liked that, yeah, it's like they're, the movie is like, oh, they're, these guys are unmasculine by traditional standards and they're the only men in the room who can have an open discussion about their feelings and openly connect with each other. I'm curious how that was read at the time. I wonder, okay, this is my 2001 question.

It's like, was that a joke at the time that it's like only unmasculine men could possibly have this conversation? I don't think that the movie is like criticizing them because we love these characters, they're the best, but I don't know, I don't know. I don't either. Sound off in the chat, everybody.

Nice. I do wanna use this almost like as a role playing exercise for like friend dude dude friend therapy where it's like, okay, so what we're going to do is you're going to be do lander you're going to be a handsome and you're going to start with the lines that are in the movie and then slowly you're going to improvise and incorporate your own shit and then it just did it did it did it just, boom, we've healed male friendship. I think it's possible. We can get there, we can get there.

We can get there. It takes a lot of, it's probably gonna be a bunch of improv dudes at first and that's fine, but that's where it's gotta start, then that's where it's gotta start. Yeah, corneas men to the front, sorry to improvizers. But it's got to start, then that's where it's got to start. Yeah. Corneous men to the front. Sorry to improvise. But it's true. Yeah, I mean, I love that their friendship resolves. I wasn't sure which way it was going to go. And it just makes sense. And then, okay, I have another 2001, can we put

ourselves back there moment, which is that I mean, this movie is mysteriously absent of queer people in an industry where there are many queer people working in high places, which feels very 2001. So that is, I think, bizarre. But also I did like that for Derek, he is ostensibly straight as far as we know and that his vulnerability didn't threaten that in any way,

which I do think is a good thing. So I'm having two things be true there. It feels weird to completely erase queer people from the fashion industry. And also I did like the portrayal of a straight guy that could have male friends and be emotionally vulnerable without that threatening his straightness. For sure. This is also an era where queer people were basically absent from cinema in general. I mean, I honestly thought that there would be heavier coding in 2001.

I was like, I don't know. I mean, I wonder if Mugatu is supposed to be queer coded. His assistant is. His assistant, Todd, for sure. Yes. Played by Nathan Lee Graham. Who I'm like, I've seen him be a gay character in a lot of things I think.

Or maybe I've now that I'm thinking about it, I'm like, I've probably just projected him into things. Oh no. Yeah, I don't know much about Nathan Lee Graham's personal life, but the character that he's playing, Todd, certainly queer coded, Mugatu, maybe arguably also queer coded, hard to say what the intentions were exactly. Right. And like Will Ferrell is so weird that it's like you just really never know what he's going for, and I mean that as a compliment. Because I think that a lazier, less creative comic actor

would have just leaned heavy on queer coding, but Will Ferrell is, he's just doing a lot. Who knows? Who knows what Mugatu's interior life is? He's just menacing, not menacingly queer, just menacing, right? Not really sure what's going on. You just kind of have to remind yourself,

it was 2001 and representation was just not good, I said brilliantly. Bravely, bravely. Never been sad on this show before. Another thing I wanted to talk about is, so okay, this is a movie about a small group of rich and powerful industry leaders who conspire to assassinate the leader of a country

so they can continue to exploit child labor in the global south so as to maximize profits. It's giving oligarchy, it's giving oligarchy, yeah. It sure is. Pretty interesting for a very silly comedy movie to be about this, to call attention to this, because this is a very real thing that continues to happen around the world.

Caitlin's Context Corner, go. Here we go. So there's obviously many examples of this happening in the world currently. I would like to take this moment to discuss what's currently happening in the DRC, AKA the Democratic Republic of the Congo, just in case listeners are not aware of this. So this movie is obviously about the garment

and fashion industry. What I'm about to talk about relates to the tech industry. But the DRC is a country that's very rich in valuable resources that are used to manufacture a lot of tech, which means that companies like Google, Apple, Tesla, Intel, Microsoft, Dell. Basically everyone who is at the presidential inauguration.

Exactly, yes. Good, good. They are stealing these resources, things like tin, tungsten, cobalt, coltan, just to name a few, and Congolese people have more or less been enslaved to mine these resources. The working conditions are incredibly inhumane and unsafe. The workers are paid almost nothing, less than two US dollars a day.

And a lot of that labor that's being exploited is child labor, which goes back to the movie Zoolander. But obviously any type of exploited, underpaid labor is wrong. Anyway, this is an ongoing humanitarian crisis that's been happening since the 90s, though imperialist entities have been exploited in Congo for its resources for much longer than that. Millions of people in the DRC have been killed,

millions have been displaced from their homes, millions are food insecure and living in extreme poverty. It has devastating effects not only on the people but also the land. The DRC recently filed a criminal lawsuit against Apple. Time will tell how that pans out. But overall this is one of the most significant human rights violations happening in the world currently, and not many people are talking about it. It does not get really any Western mainstream news coverage. So I just wanted to take this opportunity to help spread awareness about this. Listeners can help by boycotting the aforementioned companies. You can change the way you consume electronics.

You can buy refurbished instead of constantly buying new shit all the time. You can donate to organizations that are providing aid to people in the DRC. You can research, do your own research and spread your own awareness. There's lots more to learn. What I've said just covers the basics, but there's lots to know. And we can leave some links in the description as well for a jumping off point, because I think that's something that I feel also

under informed on in general. And you don't know it, you don't know, but once you know, spread the information. Thank you for doing that research, Caitlin. I've been learning about this myself for the past year or so, and it's just really horrifying. And yeah, it is not being talked about

because it is not in the capitalist world's interest to talk about it or draw attention to it. And who owns most of our newspapers now? Like there's, that's the rant that I can go on for 5,000. I mean, I think this is unfortunately maybe a good point to mention that Ben Stiller is, I guess I don't know exactly how to characterize, but he last year released what could generously be described as a very both sides-y statement about Palestine

and the kind of both sides-y statement that I feel indicates that he's probably a Zionist. You can look it up if you like. It did not sit well with me at all. And that is just something to be aware of as well. Yeah. Is there anything else anyone would like to talk about regarding the movie Zoolander? I'm so curious what someone like you're adjusting it but you're you're you're so young to me you will always be very young to me Jamie because you are younger than me which means you are child but no no no no no you're you're full you're, you are so young to me. You will always be very young to me, Jamie, because you are younger than me, which means you are a child.

But no, no, no, no, no. You're, you're a full-fledged adult. You have like a huge resume. You're very impressive. I'm 17. Oh, wow. Yeah. But you've done so much. What a young person today would think watching this,

like they, would they get any of the cameos? Cause there's so many cameos. Like, every scene is filled with celebrities. Like, why is Natalie Portman in this movie? Lenny Kravitz in this movie. Like, there's- Christian Slater, we get Akuba Gooding Jr. Lance Bass?

Lenny Kravitz, Fabio. I think I got like two out of three of every, there were a few that I'm like, I don't know. I honestly, and this is like fucked up, but like I sometimes don't know who David Duchovny is. But I like, once someone that was like, that's David Duchovny, I'm like, right. But I just never watched the X-Files.

I certainly didn't watch Californication. So he's just like not on my radar. Fair. I wonder, I mean, a young person watching this, I'm sure they would look at Gary Shandling and be like, oh yeah, it's Gary Shandling. Gary Shandling. Get that right away.

You would definitely be in the front row at Fashion Week. At Fashion Week. Gary Shandling. For sure. Fred Durst. Fred Durst is there. Fred Durst. That was fun. That was fun. I don't even think you

can call it a cameo because it's well and in Y2K spoiler for the movie Y2K. Yes. But he's like a full character in that movie. Also in I Saw the TV Glow. Yes. Fred Durst is a full on actor. He's an A24 darling. I don't remember that at all. You didn't see, wait, you didn't see Fred Durst in I Saw the TV Glow? Oh. I saw the movie, but I don't remember him being in that. The dad? Yeah.

That's Fred Durst. What? Yes. Jane Schoenbrunn is so diabolical with casting. I love their casting because it was like Connor O'Malley and Fred Durst in I Saw the TV Glow. You're like, sure. Yeah. Fred Durst does, I think, glow. You're like, sure. Yeah, sure.

Fred Durst does, I think, a great job in that movie too. Yes. I mean, he's at least unrecognizable as Fred Durst. If he's not wearing a hat, that might be why you didn't see. If he's not wearing his backwards red Yankees hat or whatever the fuck, I don't know who that is. Exactly.

That is the year 2001 to me is like Nellie with the band aid and Fred Durst with the hat. Nellie also, I believe recently performed at a Trump event. I'm like, what the fuck? Yeah, he performed at the inauguration I think. Oh my God. Oh my Lord. And for what?

And for what? Snoop Dogg as well, there is just- Snoop Dogg, you're not getting enough money from all that Martha Stewart bullshit and all of your product endorsements. Like brah, you don't have unforced error. You don't have to do what could you possibly need at this point? I just don't understand. Okay.

But Hey Tyson Beckford is also in the movie. So that a hot man, he's one of the few male models that I can actually name or he was. Oh, yeah. Yeah. He was he was bigger back in the day. Who else DJ Paris Hilton makes a cameo? She does our coworker DJ Paris. I actually don't even know if she still has a podcast. She was briefly our quote unquote coworker.

Nice. Anyway, yeah, sorry. I think we cut you off, Kanyce, because I just had to go on a tirade about all the cameos. I love the fact that it is such a timestamp exactly this time. But yeah, I have a four year old nephew. I love him so much. I wouldn't show him this movie yet. I mean, he has watched like Captain America Civil War, and that's on his parents, but so I wouldn't show him this yet.

He also wouldn't get it and he'd be bored out of his mind. But when he's like 12, I wanna be like, now tell me who any of these people are. I like just, you'll have no idea. I also love as you like get older, listening to like what my like younger cousin who's like, I think she's 19 now, where she knows who Will Ferrell is, but the thing she knows him from is completely different.

Where she would be like, oh, I mean, I guess she might know Elf, but she would be like, oh, from Barbie, Will Ferrell from the movie Barbie. Like, you know. Bizarre. Yeah, this is how time works. Time. Yeah, also would they, because there's a lot in this movie that we're like,

oh, that's not so great, but we still think it's funny. But yeah, if you weren't around then, would you think this is funny? I mean. I feel like, I don't know. I think that the central like criticism holds up well. I also think the character of Zoolander does generally hold up. I mean, the worst thing about this movie by a country mile

is the black face and brown face sequence. Especially because we know that Ben Stiller was weirdly obsessed with doing that in the 2000s, just makes it all the worse. But I do feel like there's elements of this movie that I found surprisingly good and effective. And the jokes are funny. I feel like anyone should be able to laugh at the ant joke.

That's a good joke. A center for ants. It's a good joke. It is a solid joke. There's a really funny joke. When Derek and Matilda first show up to Hansel's place to be like, we need a safe spot to hang out because Derek is being brainwashed

into killing the prime minister of Malaysia. And Hansel just goes like, yeah, so? Yeah, this is normal. And then when he's introducing everyone to them when they're like going through the house and he's like, Hey everyone, this is Derek and Matilda. They're just hanging out here for a few days because Derek has been brainwashed and everyone's just like, Oh yeah, hey, it's so normal to all these people.

That is comedy. There's other great, I mean, Derek's tiny little cell phone. Yes. Oh my God. That's comedy. The tiny little cell phone. You. Oh my God. That's comedy. The tiny little cell phone, you can't beat the tiny. I love a tiny little cell phone. For a while, my dear friend Jake would do that

and I thought it was his idea and I need to text him about it because he never told me it was from Zoolander. Wow. He used to do that bit all the time and I was like, wow, top 10 funniest things I've ever seen in my life. Fully just from Zoolander.

So many funny things that people do and say, I think, have been pulled from Zoolander. Zoolander? Yeah. I believe it. I believe it. It was, yeah, I was mortified. But I was like, all right, I guess

I can wait till I see him in person next time. But regardless, how dare you deceive my young man? I mean, maybe he just thought I would know. I don't know. But I was like, Jake's hilarious bit, the tiny phone. Not so. Anyway, does anyone have anything else they'd like to discuss? Based on the conversation about the Congo, this is not the most mentally healthy response

to that. But I was like, okay, so so we need is like a Zoolander plus the death of Stalin. Oh, I still haven't seen it. Like, like, oh, what's the tech show that Camille Nandiani Silicon Valley put those three things together to like lambast the tech industry? Although I say that knowing that no major studio would give that money, nor distributors would distribute it. So somebody definitely has to do it.

Someone else just has to do it independently. Figure it out. We can do it, we'll do it. Let's do it. Let's do it. Done. The movie I think does pass the Bechtel test when Matilda and Katinka talk about Matilda's outfit.

And they're like, it's from Kmart. And then finally at the end, Matilda's like, no, it's the something something line. And I got it at JCPenney on sale. And that passes the Bechtel test. So. Are there still JCPenney? Yes.

Okay, cool. There's one in the Glendale Galleria. I was about to say I will occasionally get something a little overpriced and a little ugly at the Glendale Galleria JCPenney. I bought a red dress that I wore for Halloween for my substance costume. Amazing. And I got that at JCPenney. Wow, shout out.

This podcast is not sponsored by JCPenney, but I guess we're saying that we're open to it. I guess so. Yeah, so it does pass the Bechtel test. However, on our nipple scale, I scale where we rate the movie zero to five nipples based on examining it through an intersectional

feminist lens. Okay, I'm going to give it two nipples. And here's why. Okay, you know, from an intersectional feminist point of view, it doesn't hold up particularly well. No. And there are many jokes that are very problematic and very cringy. But the overall story that calls attention to oligarchs exploiting labor in the global South. Timely. And killing people over it. This was relevant then, it's relevant now.

The fact that a comedy movie is about that is I think pretty cool. So normally I would give this movie something closer to like one nipple, but I'm gonna give it to because of the just premise. And I'm gonna give one nipple to Derek's tiny cell phone and I'm gonna give the other nipple to Billy Zane's cameo.

I think I will meet you there. and I'm gonna give the other nipple to Billy Zane's cameo. I think I will meet you there. For basically the same reason, this movie was doing more than I thought it was going to. It makes a point that I don't think any movie does, certainly not a comedy about exploitation and labor. I do feel like the way that the president of Malaysia, I forgot to say this earlier, is presented pretty cartoonish.

Yes, for sure. And that felt pointed. There's not much in terms of intersectional feminism. The Vufi is extremely white and yet does manage to feature blackface, which I'm going down to one and a half. There it is. There.

And I think with the Matilda character, we're like hinting at something productive to say, but then ultimately the movie kind of bails on it. I like that she's the smartest character though. I know, but like when the smartest character is also the most boring character, which is, that's a skill issue. That's a writing skill issue.

Anyways, I'm gonna give it a nipple and a half. It's because it objectively, if you're just watching a movie, it's so fucking funny. I totally understand why people still love it. And the presentation of like masculinity, I think is imperfect, but way better than I was expecting for a movie of this era. Like I think if you put Zoolander in that department next to any other comedy from 2001, besides Shrek, which is great in terms of male friendship, Shrek and Donkey Hello.

I have some thoughts, but. Well, I'm okay. We're not talking about Shrek and Donkey, hello. I have some thoughts, but. Well, okay. We're not talking about Shrek. We're not talking about Shrek. Anyways, nipple and a half, they're both going to Zane, obviously. Interesting. I'm going to give this two nipples.

One full nipple to representations of male friendship, like you discussed, like where they are able to model the type of relationships that are so insecure as to be fragile. It is like, hey, let's talk about our issues, all that. But also, and we haven't mentioned this, within the next two hours, they're in a fuck pile together. Like, the dicks were flying.

It wasn't like, oh no, we're gay. It was like, hey, we all like coming, let's do it. So true, and they said Challengers was, let's do it. So true. And they said Challengers was the first to do it, not so. Yes. Not so. Those guys, things went in places in that pile and good for them.

So that's one nipple to that. And there was no, no homo moment either, which I feel like happens in most 2001. It was just like, hey, there was a moment when we were all doing this and you two were vibing, but I was definitely doing some parts. Then I was like, yeah, you go, dude.

So one full nipple to that. Then half of a nipple to Mila Jovovich, because I think she's very funny and she makes me laugh. But then truly a full half of a nipple to the way that Will Ferrell says her last name, which always makes me laugh. It's good. And I can't do it exactly, but it's like, Johanna, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah. I'm like, perfect. So two nipples for me. Perfect. Canis, it's always a treat to have you. Thanks for coming back for the one millionth time, basically.

I love being here. Come back for the one millionth in one. I absolutely will. Let's discuss everything. You guys are the best. Oh, shucks. We're so hot right now. We're so hot right now.

And you're so hot right now, Kines. Tell us where people can see you and follow you and check out your stuff. Okay, so you can check out my stuff at Kanese Mobley on all the social media. Although because a lot of them are bad, I'm on what is the least worst one for me right now, which is Instagram. But I know it's owned by Meta, but it makes me feel better than just being on Facebook and then I'm not on Twitter anymore. And I joined Blue Sky, but I don't really post there. So I guess Instagram, I'm sorry. Yeah, I'm all over that.

I have a don't tell set. It's coming out soon. So check your feeds for that. And this is dorky as hell. But if you listen to this podcast, you like movies. I'm hosting the Oscars event at Franklin park in Brooklyn. So if you want to watch the Oscars and do trivia and prizes and games and take photos and maybe win best costume or something, then come on by. Hell yeah.

Hell yeah. We also have kind of an accidental Oscars event because we rescheduled our LA show to the night that we didn't realize was the same day as the Oscars. In the town of the Oscars? In the town of the Oscars, but here's the thing. We wouldn't have done it if we didn't. We didn't realize.

But please come to the show. Please don't come to the show. Here's the thing, the Oscars start at 4 p.m. Pacific. Our show starts at 7.30, I think? So it's kind of an after party and if even if you miss the tail end of the Oscars look they'll it'll be on Hulu you can watch it again the strong argument for coming to our show yeah yeah you can you can find us in the same place you can find us on Instagram mainly at this point.

There is no ethical social media place to go right now. I found out that Blue Sky is an Israeli company. So you're just like, there is no fucking place to go. But that is where you could find us if you're still there. And then otherwise, just check your feeds on ethical apps like Spotify. Like I don't fucking know what to tell you. Best of luck to everybody.

You can get our, you can follow our Patreon. We haven't looked into the ethics of Patreon and don't tell us. We can't switch it. We can't know what this is. We cannot switch that. We don't looked into the ethics of Patreon and don't tell us, we can't switch it. We can't know at this time. We cannot switch that, we don't know. But you can follow our Patreon, aka Matreon, where every month for $5, you can get two bonus episodes

hosted by Caitlin and myself, as well as a backlog that consists of like over 150, probably close to 200 at this point, bonus episodes going back to 2017 so that's the best way to directly support the show absolutely you can also get our merch at teepublic.com slash the Bechtel cast and all of that is designed by Jamie and yes go to our link tree to grab tickets for the upcoming LA show on March 2nd that's link tree slash Bechtelcast and hopefully we see you there

and if not it's being live streamed. Very true. So you can get a live stream ticket and watch it in the comfort of your own home. Hell yeah. So if you want your Oscars post-mortem slash general Bechtelcast celebration that's the place to be. Indeed and with that let's all head to the and that's the place to be. Indeed. And with that, let's all head to the BechtelCast Center for kids who want to learn how to podcast. Podcast, good. Bye.

Bye. Bye. Bye. The BechtelCast is a production of iHeartMedia, hosted by Caitlin Durante and Jamie Loftus, produced by Sophie Lichterman, edited by Mo Laborde. Our theme song was composed by Mike Kaplan, with vocals by Catherine Voskrasensky. Our logo and merch is designed by Jamie Loftus, and a special thanks to Aristotle Acevedo.

For more information about the podcast, please visit linktree slash Bechtelcast. Hey man, what are you into? I have the hookup. The hookup? The hookup for what? I'm solving a mystery through sex and haven't made a private dick joke until now? Poppers? Why are there so many poppers?

All roads lead to... The hookup. You think it's causing people to turn aggro? I'm gonna rip your arms off and use them to... Yeah, that's a word for it. ["I Heart Radio App," Apple Podcasts, and I Heart Radio App, by Arturo Castro, playing in background.] Listen to the hookup on the I Heart Radio App, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

Hi, I'm Arturo Castro, and I've been lucky enough to do stuff like Broad City and Narcos and Roadhouse. And now I'm starting a podcast because honestly, guys, I don't feel the space is crowded enough. Get ready for Greatest Escapes, a new comedy podcast about the wildest true escape stories in history. Each week I'll be sitting down with some of the most hilarious actors and writers and comedians, people like Ed Helms, Diane Guerrero, and Joseph Gordon-Levitt.

I love storytelling and I love you, so I can't wait. Listen and subscribe to Greatest Escapes on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is John Cameron Mitchell and my new fiction podcast series, Cancellation Island, stars Holly Hunter as Karen, a wellness influencer who launches a rehab for the recently canceled. In the future, we will all be canceled for 15 minutes. But don't worry, we'll take you from broke to woke or your money back. Cancellation Island's revolutionary rehab therapies like Bad Touch Football,

Anti-Racism Spin Class, and Mandatory Ayahuasca Ceremonies are designed to force the canceled to confront their worst impulses. But everything starts to fall apart when people start disappearing. Kieran, where have you brought us? Cancellation Island, where a second chance might just be your last. Listen to Cancellation Island on the iHeartRadio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. John Stewart is back at the Daily Show and he's bringing his signature wit and insight straight to your ears with the Daily Show years edition podcast. Dive into John's unique take on the biggest topics in politics, entertainment, sports and more. Joined by the sharp voices of the shows, correspondents, and contributors. And with extended interviews and exclusive weekly headline roundups,

this podcast gives you content you won't find anywhere else. Ready to laugh and stay informed? Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.