The Ben and Ashley I Almost Famous Podcast - A Catch Up with Clayton

Episode Date: March 8, 2023

What happens when two former Bachelors get together?? Secrets are revealed! Ben is hanging out with Clayton Echard who has a LOT to say since the last time we saw him. Clayton clears the air about what happened with him and Rachel, and what he was TRULY feeling the first time he laid eyes on her. And, we hear the real story on where he stands with Susie today.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Hi, my name is Enya Eumanzor. And I'm Drew Phillips. And we run a podcast called Emergency Intercom. If you're a crime junkie and you love crimes, we're not the podcast for you. But if you have unmedicated ADHD... Oh my God, perfect. And want to hear people with mental illness, psychobabble.

Yes, yes. Then Emergency Intercom is the podcast for you. Open your... free iHeart radio app search emergency intercom and listen now why are tsa rules so confusing you got a hood of you on take it all i'm manny i'm noah this is devon and we're best friends and journalists with a new podcast called no such thing where we get to the bottom of questions like that why are you screaming i can't expect what to do now if the rule was the same go off on me i deserve it you know lock him up listen to no such thing on the i heart radio app apple podcasts or

wherever you get your podcast. No such thing. I'm Dr. Joy Hardin-Bradford, host of the Therapy for Black Girls podcast. I know how overwhelming it can feel if flying makes you anxious. In session 418 of the Therapy for Black Girls podcast, Dr. Angela Neal-Barnett and I discuss flight anxiety. What is not a norm is to allow it to prevent you from doing the things that you want to do, the things that you were meant to do. Listen to therapy for Black Girl.

on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Betrayal Weekly is back for season two with brand new stories. The detective comes driving up fast and just like screeches right in the parking lot. I swear I'm not crazy, but I think he poisoned me. I feel trapped. My breathing changes. I realize, wow, like he is not a mentor. He's pretty much a monster.

But these aren't just stories of destruction. There are stories of survival. I'm going to tell my story and I'm going to hold my head up. Listen to Betrayal Weekly on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is the Ben and Ashley I,

I Almost Famous Podcasts with IHartRadio. It's another episode of the Almost Famous Podcast. Today we are very, very fortunate, very lucky, I would say, to have a very special co-host with me. Clayton, welcome to the podcast. Ben, man, last time I saw you, you were kicking everyone's butt in golf, and now here we are on a maybe a little bit more equal playing field. I like my chances of speaking a lot versus playing golf, so I might be able to hang with you this time.

This is going to be a good episode because you just said the one compliment in the world to me that means the most to me. So thank you for recognizing that. It's going to be blast. Yeah. Well, after we were together, you shot, like, one, we did go golfing at a beautiful place. You surprised everybody because you don't play golf typically. You're a monstrous man. You make a club look very small in your hands.

Well, those were undersized clubs, too, I should say. So that's part of it. I think they were bigger than mine. And you make them look small. And then we went back to the house. I had to actually head out of town for another event. And I'm on the plane, and I'm on this plane, and all of a sudden, your name is blowing up everywhere on my Google alerts, like everywhere. Walk us through what happened after the golf round that day.

And did you expect your videos with Rachel and Michelle to do what they did? Ben, you're coming out hot, man. I thought we're going to warm up. We are warming up. This is easy. This is easy. This is easy stuff. Oh, great.

I can't even wait for what's going to go, what's to come. Yeah, you know, I mean, well, you know, we were there for a couple days and just feeling the situation out, right? Day one when I came out of the airport and I first saw Rachel, I was like, do I need to get ready to duck something, a water bottle? But no, she was super sweet. And so we were all having a good time. And then, yeah, when you left, we were all sitting there and we thought, hey, you know, let's just have some fun with this, right? Like we've, how far we've come and now we can sit in a room together and laugh and understand one another and we've made amends and let's just have some fun with this.

So, yeah, we as I don't normally don't do anyways, but the ideas came up with TikTok and I'm not the visionary, but I can usually add on to things here and there. So we started talking and so this would be fun if we, you know, set this up this way. And so we did. And then it popped off. And then all of a sudden, I, you know, then I had to start answering to some things. But, you know, again, for me, more than anything, it just showed that, you know, how far we've all come and how we're able to look past kind of all the pain that had presented itself years prior. So this is a fun moment.

But, of course, people on the Internet like to gas everything up and just see if there's something more than what there is there. And so, of course, then all these questions came involved. I thought it was super fun. I think it's really cool. Just to give perspective, because I talk on this show every week, right? And so it's always good for people to hear a different perspective. Two questions for you. One, was this the first time you've ran into somebody on your season that was in the top four other than Susie?

And then two, can you just speak to a little bit? Because I know that it's a very real thing. But some people watch a show and they don't think like real life and the show ever, connect like how odd is it being around like a rachel or a michelle even you know uh what are the nerves like what are you feeling um walking into a room where you know you're going to be around both these people maybe for the first time uh yeah so um to answer your first question uh i have not i have not run across gabby yet uh and then um then serene would have been the other person but yes I've run across Serena a few times because Brandon and I are very close.

And so that was funny. The dynamic when we first hung out together, he was like, whoa, easy on the hug there. And he'd be like, he'd be like, hey, y'all are getting too close. So he was, you know, playing that dynamic of, well, you guys, I'm going to keep my eye on you guys. But it was playful. And, of course, him and I are such close friends. And Serene and I had a good, you know, we have a good friendship now. And I think things ended a lot better with her.

on the show than like with the with the final three so uh there wasn't much uh there to have to be concerned about or or or have to um overcome uh so yeah i guess i've i've hung out with now three of the four final and yeah individuals so um who knows if i ever cross past of gavvy i know she's super busy but uh to answer the second half for your question uh i don't really like the nerves for me and and you can answer you could probably attest to this i feel like after you go through so You put your entire life on display for everyone to judge every facet of you. They're going to look at how you kiss. They're going to look at your game.

They're going to look at if you have empathy or not. They're going to judge your career. They're going to judge what you're doing after the show. After all these constant eyes on you, it just kind of starts to become, you just kind of I don't know if Hardens the right word, but you're kind of like battle tested. And so you just feel that then whenever you're faced with a, with circumstance that maybe normally would be uncomfortable for most, I typically just think,

here's all the things that you've went through and done. And a lot of these things now just don't really incite fear in me or concern. My biggest thing is when I step into a situation like that, is just first off reading the room and making sure, hey, do we have that mutual respect? And I want to make sure we're all good on this. And then, yeah, can we kind of be playful? Or is it something that we need to step aside and have a conversation with one another?

And so that's the way I look at it. But I wasn't necessarily nervous when I first bumped into Rachel. I know it had been a year. And the last time we talked was at AFR. But more than anything, you just want to make sure that person's okay and that you're cordial. And if there's some beef, you've got to settle, then it's like, okay, let's go do this as two mature individuals. So that's the way I look at it. And with Michelle as well, I mean, the connection, we never got to that place that I got with maybe someone like Rachel or Gabby or Susie, right?

like with Rachel or with Michelle I was taken out at number eight so we never had that's that strong of a connection and we've always been cordial on that front so um I try not to overthink it these days which is a big big statement but I don't know I mean you have you run into people from your final four and how do you approach that yeah I have I think at this point I've uh everybody but Kayla I've seen I ran into the Jojo at an airport okay um and I don't Air Force, man. Yeah, dude, it was, and you, for me, I do get nervous. I'm with you where you're a little more hardened, you're a little more prepared.

That stuff doesn't affect you. But when I know that I'm going on a trip or when I know that I'm going to be in the same place as somebody that was on my season, I do get anxious. And I'll tell you why. And it might be my own issue. But I always had this idea that all these women are on text thread. and all these women are living in the house. And I'm kind of on my island alone.

And you're really only going to make one person potentially happy on your season. Everybody else is going to be mad at you for some reason. And also rightfully trying to say whatever they can, you know, to make themselves feel better about not, you know, the experience not going the way maybe they thought it would, even though they all end up very okay over the years. And so I always walk into these, like, insecure, feeling like kind of, the enemy, the outsider, and especially when there's more than one of the women on my season in the same room at some time, I just feel like I'm going to walk into this room and they're all like going to be giggling, like, you know, and making fun of me. And I'm going to be like, yeah, okay, now, you know, you can. And I'm taking it all in. So I do get nervous, maybe not as much

anymore. But at the beginning, I remember being very anxious for these moments and very uncomfortable. I thought you handled it really well. I mean, I watched it. You know, I've been able to be around Rachel now a few times since her season ended and catch up with her on her personal life and, you know, the things she's up to and her fears and how she's walking through the process post being a lead. And so I knew the storyline going into that weekend. Like I knew that was going to be a thing and kind of be awkward maybe. And I thought you just handled it well. I thought you rolled with it. The weekend ended up being a lot of fun.

And I think a lot of that is how you and Michelle and Rachel and. Rachel handled yourselves. Like, you just made it fun and you made it funny. You kind of have to laugh at it. Maybe that's a, you know, a piece of advice for anybody going through a breakup and you run into that person again is maybe if you just can put a smile on your face and try to have the best time possible, it makes a lot easier. But, yeah, I thought the whole weekend went well because of the way you three handled

yourselves. Could have gone south. And I will say, yes, those text threads do exist. Yeah. I've seen them, to some degree, or I've heard of them. But beyond that, though, I agree with you. I went through the same thing that you went through where I started to a lot of times, yeah, project what I thought people were going to, how they would react when they saw me.

Because I was like, okay, they're talking this way about me. So when I get into a room with them, they're going to be thinking these thoughts internally. But what I've found a lot of times in where I've gotten to today, and I went through everything that you just said that you went through, I went through that exact thing. But I finally told myself, a lot of times I will project and then the outcome will never occur that I'm projecting. So I thought if I just go in with an open mind and with a smile on my face and I approach it and say, like, let's just be like, let me go in here and really just try to be who I am authentically, but show that I'm willing to just try to make this work out and establish this, this friendship or whatever it may be. I feel like however you care yourself is what is going to then project and rub off onto that other individual. So if I had walked in with that first interaction, I would have avoided eye contact and just kind of like got in the car right away without saying hello, that entire week you would have been awkward, right?

Like whatever energy you project is probably going to be received. And so I just thought, hey, I'm just going to walk out with a smile and just be like, hey, how's it going? but like in a kind of a humorous light of way of you know how how are we but you know again I think like that energy reads and and then I found that when you do that a lot of times it will put someone's guard down and they go okay I mean we we both I also did ask ahead of time I said does she know I'm coming we're like yes she does I said okay well if she hated me then if she knows I'm coming unless she's going to just hurl something at me we're probably okay because she's aware so I did check and then from that point forward I thought

their interaction is going to be whatever you make it. So if you decide to be awkward about it, it'll be awkward. If you decide to be rude, it'll be rude. But if you decide to be kind, caring, and attentive, that's the way it'll be taken, it received. And it was. That's what she gave back to me. Hi, my name is Enya Emanzor.

And I'm Drew Phillips. And we run a podcast called Emergency Intercom. If you're a crime junkie and you love crimes, We're not the podcast for you. But if you have unmedicated ADHD... Oh my God, perfect. And want to hear people with mental illness, psychobabble. Yes, yes.

Then Emergency Intercom is the podcast for you. Open your free IHeartRadio app. Search Emergency Intercom and listen now. Have you ever wished for a change but weren't sure how to make it? Maybe you felt stuck in a job, a place, or even a relationship. I'm Emily Tish Sussman and on she pivots, I dive into the inspiring pivots of women who have taken big leaps in their lives and careers. I'm Gretchen Whitmer, Jody Sweeten,

Monica Patton, Elaine Welteroff. I'm Jessica Voss. And that's when I was like, I got to go. I don't know how, but that kicked off the pivot of how to make the transition. Learn how to get comfortable pivoting because your life is going to be full of them. Every episode gets real about the why behind these changes and gives you the inspiration and maybe the push to make your next pivot. Listen to these women and more on She Pivots,

Now on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The U.S. Open is here. And on my podcast, Good Game with Sarah Spain, I'm breaking down the players from rising stars to legends chasing history. The predictions will we see a first time winner and the pressure. Billy Jean King says pressure is a privilege, you know. Plus, the stories and events off the court and, of course, the honey deuses, the signature cocktail of the U.S. Open. The U.S. Open has gotten to be a very fan. see wonderfully experiential sporting event.

I mean, listen, the whole aim is to be accessible and inclusive for all tennis fans, whether you play tennis or not. Tennis is full of compelling stories of late. Have you heard about Icon Venus Williams' recent wildcard bids? Or the young Canadian, Victoria Mboko, making a name for herself? How about Naomi Osaka getting back to form? To hear this and more, listen to Good Game with Sarah Spain, and I Heart Women's Sports Production in partnership with Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment

on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports. Culture eats strategy for breakfast. I would love for you to share your breakdown on pivoting. We feel sometimes like we're leaving a part of us behind when we enter a new space, but we're just building. On a recent episode of Culture Raises Us, I was joined by Volisha Butterfield, media founder, political strategist, and tech powerhouse for a powerful conversation.

on storytelling, impact, and the intersections of culture and leadership. I am a free black woman who worked really hard to be able to say that. I'd love for you to break down. Why was so important for you to do C. You can't win as something you didn't create. From the Obama White House to Google to the Grammys, Melisha's journey is a masterclass in shifting culture and using your voice to spark change. A very fake, capital-driven environment and society will have a lot of people tell half-truths. I'm telling you, I'm on the energy committee.

Like, if the energy is not right, we're not doing it, whatever that it is. Listen to Culture raises us on the iHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Well, I was really glad that we got to spend, that I got to meet you in person, right? There's a quality about you, obviously, that's done. There's a quality about you that displays a lot of wisdom. I think this is just one, you know, for the TikTok video that came out, fans watch it and they react. And they, like you said, they blow it up.

They have their assumptions. Which TikTok video? Because I keep having more come out. Oh, well, the one with the, with Rachel and Michelle. Well, the one that really got popular. You know, but I always, especially on this show, like to go to the behind the scenes. And you just explained it. Like your mental preparation, how you, how you prepared yourself.

to meet somebody that you didn't exactly know how the response would be. And so there's a lot of wisdom. There's a lot of care for your mental state and how you handle yourself. And it also displays in your newest project. And we're going to get to the show and this episode. And we're going to, you know, blab on about what happened on this episode. I said, I got a lot to talk about, man, in that show episode. It deals with the mental aspect side of it, too, the mental health side.

So I can't wait. Yeah, we curious to hear your opinion. Yeah. Well, your perspective is going to be great. But before we get to that, I do want to take a second and highlight a project that you just came out with, your book, something that we got to speak about on the way to the golf course, something that matters and means a lot to you that you worked on very hard for a long time. So just give your best promo and kind of what people can expect out of this book before we get to the opinions of the episode. Yeah, well, I put a lot into that book. It took me nine months. right. So it was my baby, basically. And it really boils down to a story of how an individual can go from self-doubt to self-believe and how individuals can harness that hope that if I've went through that, then they can as well. So I open up and just get very candid and try to destigmatize the

conversations around mental health. And the book is for anybody else who is struggling with depression, anxiety, comparison culture, social media. um, cyber bullying. Uh, it's, if anyone's going through a struggle in their life and feels that they're walking down this path, that's a dark path and they, and they don't feel like they can see the light. Then to me, this is what that books about it. It's meant to show somebody, hey, I'm, I was, I'm walking alongside you right now. Uh, you're not alone in this. Uh, and as you hear my story, you may start to see these connections. And then you'll be able to start pivoting the way that you view your own, uh, reality. And, and, and we can hopefully get you to,

a place where you start to see that light off in the distance and you start walking toward it. So that's essentially what the book is in a nutshell. I've had to get really good at trying to nutshell in because there's just so much that I'm passionate about that's in the book, but it's a story of self-doubt, self-belief and that path and how to get there. And just, yeah, that's the best way I can describe it. What's the name of the book? Where can people pick it up and find it? 180 degrees. And it's, if you go on my Instagram, I keep everything funnel there. Click on the link in my bio and it'll take you to that Amazon link.

It's on Amazon for purchase. So to close here, why is, why was this topic important to you? I mean, it's obviously important for you personally. You saw that this was your story. You wanted to work on things and move through things and grow as a human. But why do you, I mean, why do you care if anybody else does it? Because I think we're all more alike than we realized. we all have these insecurities, but I think where a lot of us struggle is we don't address

them. We just continue to suppress them. And the more we suppress them, we don't know if anyone else is going through it because we're not willing to have the conversations. This will tie into the episode from last night because it's, I saw a lot of it and it really hit home with me where I was relating to a lot of the women relating to Zach as well. And where these insecurities can start to bubble up. And when you feel that you're not able to talk about it because you're afraid of how it might be received, then you end up getting into your own head. You end up projecting. You end up making these assumptions. And you can't be your 100% authentic self. And you either close off or you have an outburst of emotion. And so that's why having these conversations. I thought

it was just very timely and to watch the episode and to see this happening with the individuals in the show and I thought this is not just show related though this is real life related right we oftentimes we struggle but we just don't talk about it and if we did we'd realize that if you open up to the right people it brings you closer together it doesn't tear you farther apart so that's why I'm talking about it because I'm like hey guys look at me I'm happy and after everything I went through you would and I'm opening up and I continue to do so why am I opening up because I must be getting some type of positive response and it's helping me so That's, if someone sees that, they go, well, maybe I can do it too.

And everyone that I talk to, they do it. And they feel a lot better. And they think, why didn't I open up years ago? So that's why I'm having this conversation just to get more people to feel comfortable doing it. Yeah. Well, for me to you, you know, my opinion, we're probably close to the same age. How old are you? 29.

About to be 30, though. I'm about to hit the 3-0. Yeah. So I'm 33. Okay. So we're not too far apart. But, you know, I was young when I went on the show. and have had, you know, six and a half, seven years of going through this process.

And it's always interesting when you get to meet a lead. We didn't get to speak before your season, but it's always interesting for me when I get to meet a lead post show because things change, no matter if you believe they are going to or not, right? The criticism happens. That's part of what you sign up for. You don't know it at the time, but you sign up to be criticized and you sign up to be celebrated and you signed up to be critique.

Then you sign up for all these things because people watch the show for entertainment. And after a while, you kind of just accept that because it happens and it happens to everybody's happened to me. It's happened to you. It's happening to Zach. But it's one of the coolest questions that I get to hear somebody ask or maybe I get to ask to a lead bachelor or bachelor post show is what do you want to do with this? You have necessarily the world's not your oyster, right? You don't have every opportunity in the world. Nobody's going to hire you to host the coolest, biggest show on TV. and most of the time, you have to kind of figure out your own lane, which we talked about as well. But the big question is, what do you want out of all of this?

Or what do you want the world to benefit from you having this platform? And it's incredible. Not everybody does it. And I didn't do it at first. I kind of had to learn the hard way. But it's incredible to see somebody a year out from their season, spending your platform and your time to try to benefit not only yourself. but the fans and the people that have followed your story and are interested in your story.

So that's kudos to you because the world will be a better place because of this book and because of having these conversations. And I think that's a big deal. Hi, my name is Enya Jumanzoor. And I'm Drew Phillips. And we run a podcast called Emergency Intercom. If you're a crime junkie and you love crimes, We're not the podcast for you

But if you have unmedicated ADHD Oh my God, perfect And want to hear people with mental illness Psycho babble Yes, yes Then Emergency Intercom is the podcast for you Open your free Iheart radio app Search Emergency Intercom

And listen now Have you ever wished for a change But weren't sure how to make it Maybe you felt stuck in a job, a place Or even a relationship I'm Emily Tish Sussman And on she pivots I dive into the inspiring pivots

of women who have taken big leaps in their lives and careers. I'm Gretchen Whitmer, Jody Sweeten, Monica Patton, Elaine Welteroff. I'm Jessica Voss. And that's when I was like, I got to go. I don't know how, but that kicked off the pivot of how to make the transition. Learn how to get comfortable pivoting because your life is going to be full of them. Every episode gets real about the why behind these changes and gives you the inspiration

and maybe the push to make your next pivot. Listen to these women and more on She Pivots, Now on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The U.S. Open is here. And on my podcast, Good Game with Sarah Spain, I'm breaking down the players from rising stars to legends chasing history. The predictions will we see a first time winner and the pressure. Billy Jean King says pressure is a privilege, you know. Plus, the stories and events off the court and, of course, the honey deuses, the signature cocktail of the U.S. Open.

The U.S. Open has gotten to be a very fan. see wonderfully experiential sporting event. I mean, listen, the whole aim is to be accessible and inclusive for all tennis fans, whether you play tennis or not. Tennis is full of compelling stories of late. Have you heard about Icon Venus Williams' recent wildcard bids? Or the young Canadian, Victoria Mboko, making a name for herself? How about Naomi Osaka getting back to form?

To hear this and more, listen to Good Game with Sarah Spain, and I Heart Women's Sports Production in partnership with Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports. Culture eats strategy for breakfast. I would love for you to share your breakdown on pivoting.

We feel sometimes like we're leaving a part of us behind when we enter a new space, but we're just building. On a recent episode of Culture Raises Us, I was joined by Volisha Butterfield, media founder, political strategist, and tech powerhouse for a powerful conversation on storytelling, impact, and the intersections of culture and leadership. I am a free black woman who worked really hard to be able to say that.

I'd love for you to break down. Why was so important for you to do C? You can't win as something you didn't create. From the Obama White House to Google to the Grammys, Melisha's journey is a masterclass in shifting culture and using your voice to spark change. A very fake, capital-driven environment and society will have a lot of people tell half-truths. I'm telling you, I'm on the energy committee. Like, if the energy is not right, we're not doing it, whatever that it is.

Listen to Culture raises us on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I was going to ask you, for me, I feel like I found my why, and it's really cool to have gotten that point. Did you feel like you found your why after the show? Did it kind of push you into figuring out who I am and what I want? in life or were you already did you already know that prior to the show um what did what did the show kind of do for you outcome wise when when you came off it because i know i know your back story i mean i i i i guess i beat your record the record i wasn't trying to be you told two people that you know yeah yeah i decided i decided to go the extra mile so um but i i i'm sure i know you

well i heard you were well received but i mean overall what did the experience do you afterwards i mean did you have to do a deep dive as well and to your identity and and figure out, like, what am I going to take from this and where do I go from here? It's a great question. At first, I became very excited about the fame. And I didn't realize I was being excited about the fame, right? You'd be invited to these red carpets. You'd be at these parties.

You'd still be on the cover of magazines. People would be talking about you. You'd be getting emails every day and turning down opportunities. And that slowly, not slowly. That quickly goes away. Kind of like, it goes quick. Yeah, it goes quick. But I was still doing cooler stuff than I'd ever done before.

And there was a moment in time that it hit me. I was in an airport after an event where I met. I forget who, what actor. I think it was Samuel L. Jackson. And I called up my family and I was telling him this. And they were like, that's awesome. Like, how was he? And I was like, wait, that's not the response I was expecting.

Like, I don't know what I was expecting, but I was expecting you to think I was super cool from being at the same party as Samuel L. Jackson and like celebrating me because I was at the same point. party and wow i've made it my and like they didn't and then i called my friends kind of expecting the same response and they didn't at all give me the same response they never could they never cared about what i was doing they just wanted to hang out and watch football and i felt very yeah i do and i got very lonely um and i so i called up one of my buddies uh who's a good counsel to me and a very wise friend and i was telling him my feelings and my emotions here and

like what I was expressing and how I was getting angry at my family and my friends because they weren't celebrating me like I thought they should or would. And he goes, Ben, what if this whole thing was meant to be for something bigger than yourself? What if this was never meant to be about you? And that statement alone changed everything for me. Now, my work by passion and the things I really cared about existed before the show. But what the show did was it handed me a platform that allowed that why. to be um kind of uh catalyzed to a bigger like purpose and so now i had this platform that

wasn't about me staying relevant and wasn't about me staying famous and wasn't about me making headlines but now that platform allowed me to advocate to to share to connect to build community um around things that i already had a purpose in but i just didn't feel like i can make the impact. I didn't know what my impact was within those organizations or their social causes until really the show. And now I have, you know, luckily for me, I don't know where I would have been without the show. Luckily, that platform has handed me the ability to have a skill set. Like, I can now, you know, with a push of a button, advocate on behalf of people. So I think the show helped me afterwards just feel like I had a purpose in my why. Where I don't know, I hope I would have found that purpose

without the show i think i could have i just don't i don't know how that journey would have looked um so yeah i mean the show helped a lot in my why but it helped it was for the most part it was it was a growing process for me which it sounds like it is for you and you hope it is for every person that comes off the show cast member or lead that the show helps them grow um at some level yeah i think what i've seen in my own uh as as i've observed individuals as There's two ways you can go about it. You can become more egotistical because you can come off the show and say, I was the guy or the gal and I'm the big time and everyone's been kissing my bud and they'll continue to.

And I'm up here, right? I've seen people just go completely through the roof with their ego. And then I've seen other individuals that have sacrificed their ego more than ever. They see it and they say, this is bigger than me. This is what I have now. I'm grateful for, but I'm going to stay humbled and I'm going to be able to use this for good. however it may go. So it's hard though. I don't blame anybody for getting a little eotistical when everyone's patting you on the back and you're getting all these backstage events

and everyone's telling you how great you are and how, you know, you know what doesn't stink and everyone's just right there beside you. And so you get pumped up, pumped up, pumped up, pumped up, you're used to it. And then all of a sudden, like you said, it gets pulled out from you under you very quickly. And then you start to question, like, well, am I just not who I used to be? Am I not worthy of those compliments anymore? In reality was, as people, were probably pushing you up a little bit more than what you know they probably treated you a little bit more in a higher regard than like what they maybe should have because it was all a lot of those individuals are just around you and maybe wanted to be in the same room as you but to your point you know you got good friends when they have the entire time they're just like i don't care around let's watch football i don't want to want i don't care about the fact that you met so-and-so or that you got this back that's cool buddy but like you know let's just talk life um but it's hard because you as the lead you balance that of you know everyone puts me up here so where do i land Am I up here or am I here? Where do I fit?

And what are the expectations of me, too? And there seems like there's so many, especially being the lead. It's like perfection or nothing. If you're not perfect, good luck. And we can jump into that because I know we were talking about it. We'll talk about it coming up here. But with Zach, you know, I've seen some of the things that he's done and people ripped him to shreds for. And I'm opinionated on that.

And I got something to say about it when we get to that point because I'm like, what do you expect out of someone to be perfect for two months? I mean, I'd love to see the relationships of everybody that seems to be condemning individuals because I'm like, let's put a camera on you for two months and see if we catch you at your lowest moment one time. Chances are we got 60 days to do, so I'm sure we can. Yeah. Well, as we've teased, we're going to, you can follow an almost famous thread right after this episode. We're going to break down the Bachelor and the Bachelor headline.

It's going to be great. I'm going to try to play in that episode a little devil's advocate. to you because I want you to come at the positive perspective and I'm going to push you a little bit so that we can really get to understand what it's like to be the lead and the good and the bad and the uglies and where you can mess up with all that I'm excited to do that with you I haven't done it with a with a co-batchel in a long time but a final question for you on our little catch-up here Clayton something else I've respected about you that I've watched from a distance is something that I can't claim to have had. I don't have a bad relationship with

Lauren, my ex from the show. We have a good relationship, right? She's married to kids and I'm married and we're living our two separate lanes. But there hasn't been really a place in time where there's been mutual public support. We never like really healed. We just kind of moved on, which is good and fine for where we're at now. But you and Susie seem to support each other in a humor way. Also in a very real way, in a way that seems very healthy to me, like something I'm learning from from an outsider and it's convicting me in a lot of ways that I wish I would have maybe done things differently or at least tried to do things differently. So if you can, obviously people care and want to know, what is your relationship like with Susie today? And also within that,

if you could speak to how you got to the place of health so that you could be like you two are today? How in the world did that happen? And was it intentional or unintentional? Just give us some insight. Yeah. You know, I think it took a conscious effort and decision to decide how are we going to move forward with this. I think when you experience a breakup, there's so much pain that's involved, right? And usually we're at the height of our emotions and that's when we can say things we don't mean. We can we can go down this dark path of attacking because we're hurt, right? Like, we feel that a part of us was stripped from us when we weren't ready for it to be taken. And so, and then we start to think, well, what did I do wrong? It must have been my fault. Well,

then we'll go from that to, well, no, it's not me. It's them. They're the problem. And then it doesn't help that when we have friends and family that say, they don't know what they're looking for. They're missing out on a good person. And so then they validate that belief of it's not my fault. It's their fault. And so then you start to think about all the things that they did that you didn't like and you go yeah they're not worthy and so then you start to think well yeah this is their fault um and i think that's where in the past i've had this with relationships where then i start to point the finger uh somebody asked me why you know why why did so-and-so and you not work out because she had this issue or she did this and i couldn't put up with it but i i didn't like that i never when i did that in

my past relationships i always felt that i harbored this uh motion that i could never let go of and it and it hurt and it closed me off to other relationships because I thought, I don't want to go back to that. I don't want to experience that again. So then I thought, let me reframe this. How, what is it? I feel like I should be able to walk away from a relationship and be grateful because why do we have this negative viewpoint on somebody that we spend years of our life with and all of a sudden we act like we hate them and we have nothing but bad things to say about them? It's like, what about all the good times? You had three years or however many, how long it was. How about all the good times? You stay.

with them for a reason. You loved them for a reason. You fell in love with them for reason. So what are those reasons? And I think for me, I started to think about all that with Susie. I thought, why did I fall in love with this woman? And I remember, I always thought, every time I was around her, she made me want to be a better person. And so I, every time I woke up, I was trying to be a better version of myself. And she pushed me and she held me accountable. And she was there and consoled me when I needed it. And there are so many things I could sit you for an hour and say all the things that she did for me but um i had to reflect upon that every time i would get emotional and think why did this not work out between us why couldn't you

try harder to make this work um i i had to take a step back and think everything happens for a reason i believe in that but understand all the things that she did for you and you wouldn't be the person you are today if it wasn't for her and so i kept when i had negative self-talk i kept instantly putting positive self-talking. I was like, second I had a negative thought about her, I'm like, nope, nope, nope, don't replace that. And I kept fighting it until finally I thought, you know what, I am a legitimately better person because of her. And if I had never met her, I would not be half the person I am today. And then I thought back to my other relationships previously. And I thought, well, she taught me, you know, the, she taught me manners. This, this girl taught me

the power of chivalry. Uh, this, she taught me the ability to show my emotions and open up. And so I thought, you know, there's all this positive things that I've taken from people in my life. I just need to remember those when I remember that person. So I have a positive association with them. And then what I found was all the negativity that I harbored was just pain, but really I let it all go. And so when I think of my exes now, I think of all the lessons they taught me, not the pain that they caused me. And that's why I can always have a positive outlook on them and I can speak highly of them because the first, when you say Susie, I think of all the things she did for me, not all the pain she caused me.

And so that reframe has been critical. And I've been really grateful to have learned that because now, I mean, I'm her biggest supporter. And I'll be, you know, I'll be anyone else's biggest supporter that I've crossed pathless in the past because I'm like, you helped me. Now I want to be able to help you. And if I can build you up, I'm here for it because that positivity is contagious. And the more anger we harbor, it just eats at you. And I got tired of that anger eating at me. It made me a miserable person.

How in the world do you do that then with the girl that said on TikTok that she met you one night on a couch or something? How in the world do you bring that positive perspective into that situation? You know, I guess I should say this. In a fantasy land, you would love to have there always be a positive that comes out of every situation, right? I'm not trying to tell people there's, I think there's such thing as like overdue. doing it and there's a term, I'm just blanking on it. But when you are overtly positive and it's like you're just trying to force positivity, I'm not saying that everyone should just be like, oh, this really bad circumstance happened to me.

I need to find the positive. No, we should like sometimes there are just some unfortunate situations that happen to us. You know, I think though in that circumstance with that girl, it taught me a lesson that that people come from all different backgrounds and you have to understand that everyone you interact with has a different mindset for me it taught me that to practice um you know forgiveness she taught me the power of forgiveness because i thought you know what this girl is out of line but she's also young she's immature and you know five years from now she won't be hopefully the same person she'll look back and be like yeah you know second thought i probably shouldn't have done that um and so

for me that's the lesson she taught me was i need to look at people and give them grace and understand that you know what hey you you did this it was dumb whether or not I believe like you actually believed it was me or you just made it up one day you know I thought maybe she possibly made it up for just more more you know more followers but one day she'll look back at that and be like you know I I wish I wouldn't have done that and so and I feel bad for it and so I try to see people as not just one fixed point in time but you know how this individual can be over the how they can grow the same way I did I'm like you know people make mistakes I should just forgive them for for it unless they continue to make the same mistake at

some point you say okay that's just who you are but I guess yeah forgiveness is what that situation taught me because I was angry I mean I really want I wanted I wanted to sue her to the high heavens like I was so ready to bury her but then I had to step back and go Clayton again your emotion you want to bury her how are you going to feel about that if you ruin her if you ruin her and subject her to all that pain and everyone comes into her DMs and starts telling her how terrible she is now you've impacted her her health negatively and you don't want that. So it helped me, she taught me to kind of like step back and let my emotions subside and then make a judgment call. Man, the last year has been a big year for you. It's going to be a good year

for so many who pick up this book and just continue to follow along with you, but it's been a big year. It sounds like from my perspective on growth and understanding and forgiveness and positivity and all these things that, you know, I would think that you'll look back on years from now and be Like, I'm glad I went through that season. Even, you know, there's some unfortunate parts, but I'm glad I went through that season because I'm guessing that your impact's going to be great. A thousand percent, yeah.

The person I am today is because of everything I went through. So very grateful and so much positivity I had. So Ben, I know I got asked the co-host, so I really feel like I'm going to start firing questions off at you. So we're going to balance this thing back out here. I appreciate you checking in on me. But I think that was the final. question i think it's time for us to do a little deep dive and to talk some bachelor talk man i felt

i feel it took me it took me back i kind of i kind of felt a little i was like whoa this is weird watching the show again like i don't know how i feel about this yeah we we are going to balance um the act uh after this episode which ends right now tune into the next episode to hear clayton and i Clayton being positive, me being critical of this season of The Bachelor. Follow the Ben and Ashley I, almost famous podcast on IHeartRadio or subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts.

Hi, my name is Enya Yumanzoor. And I'm Drew Phillips. And we run a podcast called Emergency Intercom. If you're a crime junkie and you love crimes, we're not the podcast for you. But if you have unmedicated ADHD, D. Oh, my God, perfect.

And want to hear people with mental illness, psychobabble. Yes, yes. Then Emergency Intercom is the podcast for you. Open your free IHeartRadio app. Search Emergency Intercom and listen now. Why are TSA rules so confusing? You got a hood of you. I'll take it off.

I'm Mani. I'm Noah. This is Devin. And we're best friends and journalists with a new podcast called No Such Thing, where we get to the bottom of questions like that. Why are you screaming? I can't expect. what to do. Now, if the rule was the same, go off on me. I deserve it. You know, lock him up.

Listen to no such thing on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. No such thing. I'm Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford, host of the Therapy for Black Girls podcast. I know how overwhelming it can feel if flying makes you anxious. In session 418 of the Therapy for Black Girls podcast, Dr. Angela Nielbornet and I discuss flight anxiety. What is not a norm is to allow it to prevent you from doing the things that you

want to do, the things that you were meant to do. Listen to therapy for Black Girls on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Betrayal Weekly is back for season two with brand new stories. The detective comes driving up fast

and just like screeches right in the parking lot. I swear I'm not crazy. but I think he poisoned me. I feel trapped. My breathing changes. I realize, wow, like he is not a mentor. He's pretty much a monster. But these aren't just stories of destruction.

They're stories of survival. I'm going to tell my story, and I'm going to hold my head up. Listen to Betrayal Weekly on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast. Thank you.