The Ben and Ashley I Almost Famous Podcast - A Golden Promise Ring? (Golden Bachelor Season 2 Finale Recap & After The Final Rose)

Episode Date: November 14, 2025

We've made it to the end of Mel's Golden Bachelor season...and Ashley is ready to give her honest opinion on the finale, Cindy's pre-fantasy suite exit, and the promise of commitment to Peg?? Plus, she analyzes the mini conversation Jesse has with upcoming Bachelorette Taylor Frankie Paul. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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This is the Ben and Ashley I, Almost Famous Podcast with IHart Radio. Hey, everyone. Welcome to the Almost Famous Podcast finale edition. I wish Ben were here. He has his off week and it's his anniversary today. I cannot believe he and Jess been married for four years. Time freaking flies. It feels like two years.

It's so nuts. But they have posted the cutest things of each other today. So check that out. And again, just sending them the happiest of anniversary wishes. I am joined again by our wonderful podcast producer. I love having Heather on because she does have so. many um juicy takes you don't hold back love that and i love that especially for a day like today

because i watch this finale and like my botox was botoxing because i tried to take a picture of myself and like the confused uh judgey face that i had on the the expression the entire episode it was like i my brow was fur for wait furrowed um furrowed yeah furrowed yeah the entire time because this episode, I honestly have to say, really proved to me that Mel is the worst lead this franchise has ever chosen. This was a massive mistake. And I think my biggest takeaway from this as far as just like my feelings go is that it's unfortunate that he was this golden, there's so many reasons why he was unfortunately this golden bachelor. But the one that makes me the most sad, I worry that there will never be a golden series after

this. And his runner-up, whatever the heck you want to call her, Cindy, was made to be a lead as the golden, Bachelorette, I think. You took the words right out of my mouth. Oh, my gosh, good. I sent a text message as soon as I was done watching it going worst finale in Bachelor history. I think so.

I mean, it was... I think so. It was devoid of everything that we know and love from this franchise. Take everything that we know The Bachelor to be dramatic, emotional, twists, gone from this. I mean, there was just none of that. And I just left feeling, huh. I was like, huh, at the end of this two-hour finale. Also, why did we need to make it two hours?

Like, we've blazed through his entire season thus far. We could have really blazed through this finale, too. They tried to really milk something when there was no milk. There was no milk. Yeah. As far as fineries go, have there been like crappier finalities in the sense that the couples don't end up together? Of course.

Yeah, but at least there's so much emotion involved because there was probably so much love or lust involved too. The fact about this finale is there was no feeling. We actually had two people who ended up together who basically didn't say I love you. This is the first time, I think, in Bachelor history, that they didn't say I love. I guess it was Juan Pablo. Because Juan Pablo didn't say I love you to Nikki. He said, I like you a lot.

That was very famous. But there was still way more passion in that season than this season. This was devout, devoid of all emotion. I'm actually kind of, I mean, I'm certainly glad he ended up with Peg, who they both admit are not mushy people. And they don't fall fast. And they obviously didn't prioritize marriage at all. It makes sense that they ended up together.

I'm very happy. I'm very, very happy that Cindy eliminated herself. That girl, woman, rocked it. Throughout this entire, throughout the first half of the episode, I kept saying, this guy's a fucking dick. I can't believe this is fucking dick. I couldn't believe what I was seeing. He, she was like, how, um, how do you feel about us?

And he'd be like, it's a process. Like, sir, that is not the answer to the question. there could have been other ways he could have gone about that navigating that conversation right it could have been um i have really strong feelings for you but there is somebody else involved yet so i'm not going to make promises but i do want to take this to the next level or i want you i want to reassure you and let you know that my feelings are genuine or i feel deeply there wasn't a whole lot of him justifying to her, but I will say this, that to me means he wasn't into her. Like the fact that he wasn't willing to do that, I think she got the message loud and clear.

She's not the one. And as much as he felt like kind of sad seeing her go or whatever, I think that for him, he also expressed, right, that kind of saying goodbye to people was a little bit, I think he said at some point in this journey that that was hard for him. And I think her self-eliminating was probably easier for him because I don't think he wanted to hurt her. Yeah. Well, one of the most lame-o things that happened was that he was, he was, like, annoyed by the fact that she left. He said, you have to finish the game, basically.

And I was like, sir, this is not a sports game. This is a game of love. And I'm really glad that Jesse spoke up and said, well, there comes a point where you do need validation. Exactly. Exactly. And she said back, like before he, you know, talked about that when she was on stage with Jesse, she had said, she doesn't need to convince a man to love her. And the audience hooded and hollered for that because that was like such a great moment, right? It kind of goes back to what she had said previously on the show that I think both resonated for you and I when she said, if you're not going to choose me, I know somebody else will. And she straight up said that to him. So like the girl knows, I think she knows she's a bombshell.

She knows she's really cool. And she's just like, if you're not into it, she's probably got a million guys like in her DMs or on her dating apps or whatever back in Texas. Like, she knows it. I'm just, she was like a girl to me where I'm like, this is, I mean, talk about stereotypes I know. But like, I want her to have like a Texas man. And she was dating like a playboy from Southern California. Watching her during after the final rose with Jesse, I said in my mind when she was talking about like, my man is still out there. Cindy is the kind of woman, we are going to see hard launch a guy in, I'll say by New Year's Eve.

I hope so. I am going to say by New Year's Eve, Cindy is going to be ringing in the New Year with a hot guy, toasting champagne. She is that gorgeous and she is that confident in herself that she has put out there to the universe what she wants and deserves. And that is going to come back tenfold to her. I guarantee it. She is going to find a man like that. She will have all the options in the world. She will be living in real life, the golden bachelorette life.

Yes. But I also wish that we would at some point be able to see her be the golden bachelorette. I just don't think it's really in the cards. I just, I think this was such a bomb of a season that I don't see it coming back anytime soon. Oh, but she would have been incredible lead. Incredible. I agree. Can I just off topic, but on top for a second, because I feel like you are the person.

to talk to you about this. Her look for after the final rose. Oh, I was like, I was like clapping. I was like, stunning. Yes. Yes. Does she not with her red hair and the way that dress looked, does she not remind you of when Little Mermaid Ariel comes out of the water

at the finale to at the end with her legs? Yes, the silver dress. That was all I was thinking when she walked out. I was like, oh, that's amazing. Real life Ariel. No, she looked, they both looked fantastic. Oh, I mean, Peg looked absolutely beautiful. Her hair looks so good like that.

She looks so good. And, you know, I'm really happy that they're enjoying their time together. I don't want to belittle that at all because Pegg is super cool. I think she could do, she could get a much cooler dude. But it's all good. If they want to be dating, that's great. She definitely deserves the best. He, I have questions.

Okay, wait, that was so mean. I don't mean that. I just mean that these are two really kick-ass women. They are. And they're kick-ass in different ways, right? And he's just kind of like a snooze, okay? He's just a snooze. I agree.

You know what, though? Maybe I'm, maybe I'm in the minority on this. I think that they're going to, I could see them being together for like a long time. Like, I could also see them being like a Goldie Han Kurt Russell couple, which that doesn't get married, you know? I kind of really liked the vibes between them. And I think that Peg hasn't been super forthright with what happened in her marriage, but we do know that she was cheated on. And we know that during their fantasy suite date, they made a real connection in terms of their stories, something that really bonded them. Now, I'm not going to read too much between the lines on what that could mean, but I think that what I will say is that divorce burned both of them really bad is what it seems like.

And so if that is something that brings them together and makes them believe in love again, I think that that's incredible. But I think I get the vibe from both of them that marriage is not in the cards because of what happened in their divorce. And I don't want to hold that against people because divorce is really, really hard. And you shouldn't. But I also am like, looking back, Ashley, he never said, I don't think he ever said, my wife is in this room. She said that he did, but I'm not sure. I think he did. Cindy said that he did at some point.

He may have, he may not have. It's just another reason. With Gary's season and even Joan's season, because this is not like somebody that they're looking to have kids with, I am totally down with like them not having to prioritize marriage on this like sect of the franchise. I kept saying to like about Gary and Teresa, like, why did they rush into marriage? They didn't have to really get married. But like in Cindy's case, she wanted to get married. And that was her expectation going into the show. And I believe that that is a totally legit expectation to have going into.

to this show. And this is just another reason why it was like, why did they pick this man? Not only does he not have a personality that jumps off the screen, not only did he mess up on that podcast saying that he didn't want to date women in their 60s. But then in addition to that, he has no desire to really, or he seemingly has not much of a desire to get married to again. If he does, he's going to take years and years to pull the trigger on that. I want to go back just because you were talking about fantasy sweets it was just a very strange portion of I guess like it was the kind of like

the after show when he kept telling Cindy you didn't stay around for the for the overnight and like that would have been part of the process he made it seem like the overnight was going to actually get him in one day to go for

from saying, I like you, I can't really say how I feel this is going to having an overnight and then getting engaged like truly the next day. I was like, dude, do not make it seem like it's that. It is a big deal. I totally get that the fantasy suite does change things, but it doesn't change things that much. So stop blaming it on something other than yourself. So how I interpreted that was that it wasn't more about getting him. there. I think that he was saying, like, you didn't go to the overnights, so you didn't actually

get to have a conversation with me off camera where I could say, I don't intend to get to get down on one knee. This is what I want. You know what I mean? Like, I think it was more about, not about him and being able to get there with Cindy, more as like Cindy being able to understand him. that's how I interpreted it because he was like after his overnight with Pegg he was like we were able to talk so much we are on the same page blah blah blah and I think he was very careful about his words on camera through this whole process and he and was very acutely aware right and I think more so after the podcast comments that roasted him. right so if he's at a dinner with her and he is saying i'm not going to get down on one knee i can't

say i'm going to propose to you i mean he just knows he's going to get roasted for that so i think it was more like you didn't come to the fantasy sweets and let me really talk to you about where i'm at and what i'm doing and reassure you like this is what i want is this what you want no we're not on the same page okay it's not going to be you that's kind of how i took it when he was talking about that. But again, that's just another reason why he shouldn't have been The Bachelor. If you can't talk about all your stuff on camera, there are certain things that you talk about in a fantasy suite.

As I pointed to Jared behind me, you talk about past relationships way more in the closed door of a fantasy suite because you don't want those other people involved that didn't sign up for the show to have their stories on the show. A lot of the times you don't want to do that. It's a respect thing. but he but you should still be able to say stuff like I don't know if I want to I don't think I should get married

or you can talk about your reservations on camera he obviously was taught he was saving all conversations for the fantasy suite Ben has expressed I think in past recaps that we've done and I agree with that give them something Mel you need to say you know what I'm not ready to make an answer on that and here's why my we never heard my divorce was really difficult, you know, or, you know, losing that marriage has really shattered my confidence or whatever it is.

He, instead of giving direct answers, he could have talked about where he was mentally, emotionally, and he opted not to do that. And maybe he did that with Peg. Pegg swore in her fantasy suite that his walls came down and she got to see another side of him. Um, and I think, yeah, that's what he was kind of, I think that's what he was alluding to Cindy by saying you didn't come to fantasy suites was like, you didn't actually get to see another side of me because you opted to leave and that was your choice. Um, but again, I think his mind was already made up. I think he already knew it was going to be peg. So there shouldn't have been any sort of sense of shame to Cindy leaving because I think it was always going to be peg. Absolutely. I agree. No one can resist a rule of culture, so here's one for the dating files. Rule of culture number 72. Chemistry isn't just vibes, it's values. Because what's the point of matching with someone if you can't talk about the shows you binge,

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on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. She said, Johnny, the kids didn't come home last night. Along the central Texas plains, teens are dying. Suicides that don't make sense. strange accidents, and brutal murders. In what seems to be, a plot ripped straight out of Breaking Bad. Drugs, alcohol, trafficking of people. There are people out there that absolutely know what happened.

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she definitely she's a girl mom right but she definitely has boy mom energy she's going to I feel like get along with any sort of teenage, early 20-something-year-old sons. She was perfect in that moment. Yeah. And the boys for having never met somebody that he's dated, right? And I mean, it doesn't mean that he hasn't dated since his divorce. I think he has. But that was kind of a big moment.

And those young men were extremely warm. And they seemed to just totally hit it off with her. right away, which I thought was nice. Yep. I guess I'm also just sitting here. I'm still, like, hung up on the fact that, like, he just, to me, was just so cold and awkward to Cindy. I'm bringing it back. I'm bringing it back. I'm just reminiscing about their time at that table and how he gave her nothing. And it just was so good of her to leave. I wrote in the notes here that, like, their conversation after the final rose,

was also uncomfortable, just like... Oh, absolutely. It was like, he wasn't saying, like, things like, like, hold, like we see on most after the final roses where maybe the bachelor and his runner up are crying or holding hands or they're expressing... There's still some sort of feeling and passion. They're expressing, like, that this was a very difficult decision for them to make and that they wish them all the best.

Like, there wasn't any of that. And there was one moment that I wrote down. that was really awkward. She says she told Mel she was willing to move for him and start a life. And he says he cuts her off in that moment. And he says, that doesn't interest me, though. And Cindy looks kind of stunned. And then the audience does a weird clap.

And it was like, what? Like, why did that, why did they keep that moment in? I was like, this was so strange. It makes neither. it was, it was, I just wrote uncomfortable. Right. Yes. And then she just says she wants him to be happy. And then she says her heart is wide open for love, you know.

And that's why I think, mark my words, by New Year's Eve, Cindy will have a man. Because she is what this social experiment, this show is all about. It is about being open to falling in love. It is about taking weird leaps of faith that he clearly said over and over again, is not interested in. Yes. Oh my gosh. He hated leaps of faith. We get it, man. We get it. This guy is like the anti-romantic. Anti. And he's very compartmentalized. They kept talking about how analytical he was. Yeah. And the thing is, is that he's been that way his whole life. He didn't get to be the golden bachelor and then became this way. He's been this way his entire life.

And so everybody is different. I feel like I, I have to stand up for the casting team for this for a second. Okay, you guys, just letting everybody know that Heather isn't casting. Like, that's her specialty. And I just have to say, I don't know anybody specifically that worked on this season of the Golden

Bachelor. But in my opinion, as somebody who has done many of these shows, I'm going to go out on a limb and say that Mel was not found by a member of the casting team. A couple reasons why. He doesn't

seem like anybody who would ever respond to a message or ever obviously respond to a open casting call. That's one thing. I fully believe that he is, and this is why I also think he's so bad as a lead, because a casting person would have kind of suss some of this stuff out early on. And so my gut feeling is that he came from exec at ABC, exec at Hulu connections. And I've worked on shows where this has happened where somebody up top, a suit, somebody who doesn't, you know, work with the talent on a day-to-day basis, says, I know somebody who'd be great for this. They're super hot, whether it's a personal friend or a friend of a friend. And that person then gets put into the mix. And you have to, as a member of the casting team, kind of guide that

along now I'm not saying that that's how they get selected because not to get too into the weeds but there's like a million things that leads have to go through to get selected it is not up to one person there's a lot of people that make and sign off on that decision but to me that is a to me this is where I see issues sometimes with shows where people that don't know talent and don't work with talent can sometimes put a lot of emphasis and I ideas of what somebody can be versus what they are. And like as people in the casting world, we kind of can suss that stuff out just because we do it on a day-to-day basis, whereas a suit executive who maybe knows this cool guy that used to be in football doesn't know that. And I really

think that the network did him a disservice in a lot of ways. I'm not condoning any of those comments he made on the podcast. But I'm going to say that there are a million in one ways they could have gotten in front of that prior to filming to course correct. And they opted not to do that and to wait until limo entrance night to try and do that. And I really think that that also just started things off on the wrong foot because I think it gave Mel too much time to be in his head about what he was saying and what he was not allowed to say. That's so true. And I think that that stayed through the whole process. We often think we know our type in dating, tall, funny, a certain job,

but the research shows we're usually not the best predictors of who will actually make us the happiest. As we often say on the Happiness Lab, our minds lie to us about all kinds of stuff. And that definitely includes the kinds of things we need to be happy in a relationship. That's why it helps to stay curious. On Bumble, features like shared interests and prompts make it easy to notice right on someone's profile, initial sparks of compatibility, like a shared love of cooking or the same nostalgic TV shows. Shared interests and prompts let you showcase your personality right on your profile and connect with people who get your vibe. And with photo and ID verification, you can feel confident the person

you're talking to is real, so you can date with a bit more confidence. When you treat dating as exploration, instead of sticking to a rigid type, you open yourself up to happier, more meaningful connections. So maybe your type isn't tall, dark, and mysterious. Maybe it's loves podcast as much as you do. Stay open, stay curious, and let yourself be surprised. Download Bumble today. What up y'all? It's your boy, Kevin Stage. I want to tell you about my new podcast called Not My Best Month, where I talk to artists, athletes, entertainers, creators, friends, people I admire who had massive success about their massive failures. What do they mess up on. What is their heartbreak? And what did they learn from it? I got judged horribly.

The judges were like, you're trash. I don't know how you got on the show. Boo. Somebody had tomatoes. If they had tomatoes, they would have thrown the tomatoes. Let's be honest. We've all had those moments we'd rather forget. We bumped our head. We made a mistake. The deal fell through. We're embarrassed. We failed. But this podcast is about that and how we made it through. So when they sat me down, they were kind of like, we got into the small talk, and they were just like, so what do you got? What? What ideas? And I was like, oh, no. What? Check out not my best moment with me, Kevin on stage, on the Iheart radio app, Apple podcast, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcast. And she said, Johnny, the kids didn't come home last night.

Along the central Texas planes, teens are dying, suicides that don't make sense, strange accidents, and brutal. murders. In what seems to be, a plot ripped straight out of breaking bad. Drugs, alcohol, trafficking of people. There are people out there that absolutely know what happened. Listen to paper ghosts, the Texas teen murders on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The Big Take podcast from Bloomberg News dives deep into one big global business story every weekday. A shutdown means we don't get the data, but it also means for President Trump that there's no chance of bad news on the labor market.

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On Health Stuff, we're talking about health in a different way. It's not only about what we can do to improve our health, but also what our health says about us and the way we're living. Like our episode where we look at diabetes. In the United States, I mean, 50% of Americans are pre-diabetic. How preventable is type 2? Extremely. Or our in-depth analysis of how incredible mangoes are.

Oh, it's hard to explain to the rest of the world. Like, your mangoes are fine because mangoes are incredible, but like, you don't even know. You don't know. You don't know. It's going to be a fun ride. So tune in. Listen to Health Stuff on the IHeart Radio. radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

The interview, which is probably like the only like long term, like long form speech he had before being the bachelor was received so poorly that he just shut down any any sort of thoughts. So, like, that's probably why he was, that was probably an element to why he was so boring, because he was scared to talk. Because when he did talk, that was the reaction he got. 100%. And Ashley, you might be able to speak to this more as somebody who's actually been on the other side, because I can't speak to what kind of media training. Contestants have to go through, but I do know that the leads have to go through something. But, you know, I just really think that clearly Mel hadn't gone through any. sort of media training prior to that podcast. And I don't know if they then grilled him, went down on him, whatever they did. But I really think that they were like, you do not speak until cameras are up at rolling. And we are going to help you to kind of say this. They could have, like I said, a million in one ways. They could of course corrected prior to filming. And they opted

not to do that. And I think that it started him off on a bad foot as well. That's good. And we do give him credit in saying that because maybe he would have been better than he was. I mean, it's pretty impossible to be. I want to hope that they saw something because for hi to pull back the curtain a little bit, the leads have to meet with executives and the network a lot before. I know. A lot. And so we're talking multiple meetings.

We're talking about background checks, psych evaluations, medical testing, going to up fronts or, you know, Hulu events or, like, there's a lot of, like, mixing and mingling and talking that the leads have to do to, in a sense, prove themselves that they are right for this kind of a role and to take this on. And so I want to believe that the people in the room really did see something in him, and that's why they gave him this opportunity. I don't want to think he was just this way in the room and people were like, yeah, yeah, this guy. Because I just don't, I just, I want to give the Hulu execs and the ABC execs a little bit more credit than that, that they, that they would have, I agree. I agree. It was weird that you say

this because I did post something on Insta story before getting on the podcast. I said, you know, this man was not born to be the bachelor. And I initially had wrote something more, a little harsher. And I had said he was like the worst casting choice. And I erase that because I was like, this just doesn't feel right to blame casting on. They have never effed up like this before. The lead has been a weird, there's been weird choices for lead before. For sure, for sure. But those people for the most part who have been cast as weird leads, they were still good cast members when they were on the main show. Like you would understand why all of the people

that became leads, even well questionable, you'd understand why they would be cast for the other show where they were part of like the said ensemble. Yeah. And we can see there's been a changing of the guard, right? So proof to what I'm saying is just look at the fact that Taylor Frankie

Paul is the Bachelorette for the next season. That did not come from the casting department. That is inner Hulu ABC executive's making a deal. So we have executives or somebody is in place now that is taking a stronger hold on the casting of the lead. And this is not what past seasons have been like. And so that's why I want to say that Mel probably came from an internal connection and was not found organically for this experience. Totally great point, Heather. Thanks for being here to have that insight. Appreciate it so much. Let's talk about the proposal, non-proposal, which was, again, a very weird moment.

It was like, are we giving promise rings as 60-year-olds? Can I say, is this the first finale in history where Neil Lane wasn't at the location to come out with the rings? No, it's not. No, it's not. The last season, I believe that with Grant, Neil Lane didn't come out. Oh, no, it was, or it was Paradise. He didn't come out. It was Paradise. Paradise, he did not come out. I do know that.

My thought was that I guess Neil really wanted or The Bachelor has some sort of relationship with Neil in which, like, he really had to give a ring. I mean, we saw him in the audience at the after the final rows. They did a little pan to him.

Because that was really awkward. Yeah. He gave a ring to a woman and said, this is a commitment to, this is a commitment to see how things go. this is a commitment to date yeah exactly and then he goes um just the fact that he was handing a woman a ring without getting down on one knee it was so bizarre and then even in the after the final rose portion um jesse was like any thoughts about getting engaged and then what did they say they were like

you know maybe down the road yeah okay first of all he's going to hate me that i actually don't remember this verbatim but didn't bob guinea not propose on his season and also gave like a promise ring oh did he you'll have to ask about he's going to be so mad if he listens to this and is like heather how do you not know this we've talked about it but i'm pretty sure that he was one of the first bachelors to not propose it wasn't as big of a thing back then. And again, like, I don't even have an issue with them not proposing. I really don't because, like, I just, yeah, I'd rather see, like, a healthy relationship than having to

see a forced proposal. But it was like the weird in between where it was like, I'm going to give you a ring, but this is not a proposal. That's what was strange. But what if it's contractually that a kneel-lane ring has to be given. That's what I mean. That must have been what happened. Why can't it be something else, Neil Lane? Why couldn't he give her a necklace after the final road? Yes, that would have been nice. That's so like. Neil has gorgeous necklaces.

I would have gone into his studio in Beverly Hills or it's like West Hollywood of Jason. It's so beautiful. The necklaces will you're looking at more than anything else. Seriously, they, that's what they should have done. It should have been like, I want to commit to you to see where this goes. then pop some champagne, drink, we're excited. Have that be the moment where they say, I love you to each other for the first time.

Why did we hear that at the after the final rose? But we didn't hear it then in the moment. Because they both were both saying that they weren't there yet. Peg had also said the day before that she wasn't there. I mean, listen, we're putting a square peg in a round hole then with these two. Like. A square peg and a melhole. Like they just, they really wanted to force these two into the format instead of changing and reimagining what this could be.

And I hate to say this, guys, I love this show. I love this franchise. But this is a part of why. the numbers have dipped off and other shows have started to go different ways. Because they don't adapt. It's because they adapt and they change and they do things differently. And this show has like really just like dug its heels in and been like, no, this is what we do. And it's like, stop.

Yeah. That being said, like Cindy wanted to get married. Like she wanted the proposal. And I think that's totally fine too. Debbie too. Debbie would have, in a heartbeat, would have. have married Mel. I know. I'm sorry, I'm reading for Debbie if we get another one. Well, okay, I agree. I like the Debbie thing because she's never been married before. Yeah. Okay, now let's also talk

about that awkward moment where Pegg says, Mel doesn't have integrity. He is integrity. And the audience was silent. I mean, there was like five claps. Weird. It was proof. We were like all just we were like all right girl if you say so not that he like ever showed that he wasn't like an honest guy it was like just that he was showing that he's like a close off guy so i think that as an audience we're just like i don't know if we can trust you because we don't really know you it was so funny to keep that in there uh it was all just like i have no problem keep it in there it's real i like i like the fact that the audience was without words saying how they felt i want to just talk to anybody that has ever been on reality TV and been like,

you don't know the real me. I got a bad edit. Blah, blah. I got a bad edit. Okay. We have a lead and they couldn't even edit him to look amazing. Okay. So I just want everybody to know that like it is what it is.

Like if you're a villain on reality TV, I'm nine out of ten times going to say you are a villain in real life. There is only so much editing can do. And this is proof that editing can only go so far. Yeah. We cannot make something that is not there. And they didn't, towards the end, I agree with Ben. They were not even trying to make him look cool. Like they were just like letting him look like a wimp and like letting him, you know.

And I want to, you know, also. not say that these producers can't do their job. I 100% know that field producing is not easy, but you cannot get somebody to say things and do things that they do not want to do, especially past a certain age. I have cast shows of people 60 plus, and people are, I don't want to say smarter,

but they are less flexible than a person in their 20s who comes on the show and is more wanting to appease producers and get through whatever they need or get more screen time. He wasn't like that. And again, I just go back to the fact that he was roasted so bad over those comments.

He was like just acutely aware of like, my words can be flipped and switched at any given moment. And I am going to give them the least amount of opportunity to do that to me. He probably had no faith, too, in producers that the lead was going to be protected after that because that is normally, I would tell people all the time. You're a lead.

They're going to make you look amazing. Like, you have nothing to worry about. And I think he was wrong in that assumption. Yeah. I think they were really trying their best. They stuck with him. Mm-hmm. And I don't think,

I think that sometimes they're down for a sloppy bachelor, but I think that they definitely did not want a sloppy golden bachelor. I agree. Especially since, you know, Gary was such a good, successful golden bachelor, and then things got so sloppy that I was just like, I don't think that they were trying to keep going with that. No one can resist a rule of culture. So here's one for the dating files. Rule of culture number 72. Chemistry isn't just a just.

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What did they mess up on? What is their heartbreak? And what did they learn from it? I got judged horribly. The judges were like, you're trash. I don't know how you got on the show. Boo, somebody had tomatoes. I'm kidding.

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but this podcast is about that and how we made it through. So when they sat me down, they were kind of like, we got into the small talk and they were just like, so what do you got? What? What ideas? And I was like, oh, no. What?

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Like our episode where we look at diabetes. In the United States, I mean, 50% of Americans are pre-diabetic. How preventable is type 2? Extremely. Or our in-depth analysis of how incredible mangoes are. Oh, it's hard to explain to the rest of the world. Like, your mangoes are fine because mangoes are incredible, but like you don't even know. You don't know.

You don't know. It's going to be a fun ride. So tune in. Listen to Health Stuff on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. producers were so frustrated at mel when he had cindy leave when the cindy walked away and then they're like let's get in jesse it was hilarious to just see the producers like just as for my experience like they were so freaking annoyed at this man for being so closed off they're like we're going to pull Jesse into this moment, see what he can do, and he could barely do anything

too. And it was just funny to watch the frustration of them being like, I can't believe how we have, we've, this is, this is the lead of our show. He can't discuss anything he's feeling. You're so true because, right, like Jesse leads the horse to water in a, in a, in a sense, right? He goes, she's still here. Do you want to go talk to her? And he goes, no. Yeah. The way. that he says no was like it was so dicky it was that was another moment where i was like this guy's a dick i didn't want him to be like please stay please stay because i didn't even want her to like ever feel weak i never wanted her to be weak towards him and be like okay fine i'll stay for like one more like couple hours and she did say that she wouldn't have done that which is great and i'm really really happy about that

but i just was like ew ew go let her be alone. I could have seen him going to her room. And he had, earlier this season, he had eliminated Jerry, who he gave the first impression rose to. And when he walked her out, he got choked up. Like he really, like, that was the first, maybe one of the only times, we saw like an emotional reaction from him in a goodbye. I could have seen him talking to Jesse and then saying, I don't like how we just said goodbye right now and him going back to her room and saying, I just want you to know how special you are. I just want you to know how much you meant to me in this moment, this moment, this moment,

and having some sort of reaction. And now I agree with you that it was probably an ego bruise, but I also wonder if he was starting to feel semi-emotional and was like, uh-uh, they're not going to get that from me on camp like I'm not going to go and like because he again I really think he feels badly about eliminating and I don't want to speak from personal experience of men that are avoided and do this but pushing away so that the woman makes the choice yeah I feel like he would have loved to have ghosted her if he could have I believe so I believe that is what he would do but that's that's the vibes I got from that whole situation, I was like, he is not giving it to her because he actually wants

her to walk away. He doesn't want to be the one to break up with her. He knows it's not her. This situation is eating him up inside. And so I think he probably didn't expect her to be so forthright in her exit of like, I know somebody's out there for me if it's not you. Like, you know what I mean? Like at the same time, don't you feel like maybe it was one of those situations where it's like, oh, you broke up with me. I'm supposed to break up with you. I agree. And I don't think he liked that.

I agree. Because that is the, uh, that is the athletic mentality. Exactly. He approached this game mind mentality. Yeah. As she said, what I don't, we are not playing in the same stadium or something. Agreed. I agree.

Yeah. She's cool. I mean, Cindy made the right call. She didn't feel it in her gut. She trusted her gut. and she walked away, which is why, Cindy, you will be engaged by New Year's Eve. Now we've up to two engagement. I believe you will be engaged by New Year's Eve to somebody very hot.

That's all I'm going to say. Like, it's going to be somebody super hot. And I think Debbie, I think Debbie's got it in her too to find somebody. I think all the gals from this season were so cool. And I totally see Peg. I'm from Orange County. where Mel lives. And I could see it's so weird.

When I saw them together, I was like, Peg is so Orange County. Like I know she lives in Vegas, but I could totally see her living in Orange County. Yeah, I could see that too. Mm-hmm. All right.

Let's talk about Taylor Frankie Paul's chat with Jesse. This moment happens after she wrapped a rose ceremony. She said that she's already had, she already has a couple crushes. She says that her cast is really good. And from the teasers that we've seen, we agree that her cast has like seven guys that are so her type that's really exciting for her and us and then she alludes to one guy who terrified her no she says he that she terrified

him oh in a good way or bad way she was like uh after she made like these um it sounds like she's eliminating guys before rose ceremonies. Like she's like, and a guy said to her, like, you terror, that terrifies me or you terrify me. And she's like, good. Like, she likes this kind of upper hand mentality. I know you're new to the secret lives of Mormon wives. Did you get or understand the dirty soda reference up top with Jesse?

Oh, no. I thought I was like, is that just another, oh, because they love so. that's right they like drink soda like it's drinks yeah and then so she had a she had a spiked soda no so that's the thing so dirty soda doesn't mean alcohol and soda it's then okay that's what I thought he was making a funny about like the fact that it was um you know like what we dirty surely yeah no not that so um in the Utah more culture, they're really into their soda drinks, and this will definitely be a part of the show. And as you watch Secret Lives More, you'll see them do this. But it's like mixing like coconut milk and

flavors and like all this stuff into sodas and like making like a concoction. And it's called like a dirty soda. So the fact that Jesse was like, I got a dirty soda for you. I was like, okay, we're really like leaning into this right now. So that's what that was. We know that she has as a Dancing with the Stars group date on her season. We're really making all that synergy. That would be good. We like that. I like the synergy.

I think it's fun. And we also know that her mom talk gal. Some of them are supporting her because they do come out and visit her during filming. So we will get to see that, of course. You know, she mentions her favorite things, crocs, you know, so we're going to see her wearing crocs on the show. And, you know, they made a joke at the end with Mel's bloopers about Mel, eating the food on dates. And that is usually not typical.

And Taylor leaned into that as well in this chat with Jesse saying, you know, like, can we eat the food? Can we warm the food up? Eat the food, people. Eat the food. I'm always been a proponent of that. And that was probably my favorite segment of Mel's, the fact that he was so into the food. Well, you know why they don't let you guys. eat the food. I know. It doesn't look attractive. I get it. But guess what? It's more than that.

It's more than that. It's, it makes it seem way more real. It 100% does make it seem more real. But the real reason they don't let you guys eat the food on the dates is because it ruins continuity. So if you say something amazing at the end of the date, sorry to pull back the curtain. Heather. I have been telling the fandom that they just tell us it doesn't look cute. No, that's not it. For the past 10 years. this makes so much sense yeah so if you say something amazing at the end of the date that they actually want to put up earlier in the date but you're say drinking wine or eating food and we see the glass bounce from full to empty the steak is whole in one spot and then it's then it's like

down to a bite and then it's back to being whole oh my goodness that's why you can't do it now if you pay attention there are a lot of networks out there I won't say which that don't care about continuity and you will see food and drinks bounce from da-da-da-da-da to size difference throughout a conversation. But clearly ABC and Hulu are very acute to that. And that's why they don't let you guys do it. I used to just go in and dig. I ate on all my dates. I love that for you. I didn't have that many one on ones. Yeah. It was like it looked the taste the way it looked. It was good. It tacos once. And then I had steak on another. And then, oh, There was one other. I think it was chicken. I don't know, but I ate on all of them. That's so funny. Nobody ever stopped me. That's why I was pretty convinced that it was just for looks. But they're probably like, ugh, nobody else does this. We'll let Ashley do it just because like, you know, what's working around the plates for one day. I love that you were, when against the grain, it sounds like Jesse ate a lot on camera too during his time. So, yeah, that's so funny. I wrote in the notes, I wrote these bloopers aren't that funny.

They're not that funny. I mean, I haven't found their bloopers to be funny for quite some time. They used to be epic. They used to be hilarious. And now they're like too bug oriented. I'm like, guys,

like swatting away bugs, not that funny. I can still remember a blooper from Caitlin's season of her being attacked by a bird. Well, Caitlin was petrified a bird. So that was funny.

I mean, she has tattoos on her arms because she's so scared of birds and she wants to like try to conquer the fear. So that was great. That was a funny one. But yeah, no, it's like even if bloopers can't make this guy funny, which I was saying, I think past recaps, I said, maybe they should have been airing bloopers throughout this season. So we could have seen something.

No, the blooper, it's like, it freaked me out. I was like, if this is supposed to be fun, him eating food is supposed to be funny. Like, oh, no. Like, I like it because I like the eating the food. But like, if this is him funny, it's like, wow, wow, wow, poor guy. Again, as we've said, a number of times throughout this season. I don't know what Mel is like in real life. I'm truly just speaking as a audience member watching him as a lead of a show, and he might be

wonderful. And I may love sitting down having a drink with him, but I did not like watching him as a lead. He was not meant for TV. I fully agree. We are not talking about Mel as a person. We are talking about Mel as a lead. Not everybody is meant to be a lead. this is why this part of the casting process is honestly the most difficult.

You can find a ton of people that are great to be, you know, background, first one kicked off, somebody that you think is going to go far. But casting a lead takes a lot, a lot of time. And I think that, you know, it sucks. I really do want to believe like you that there will be more seasons of the golden. but I really feel like this is a wamp-womp, and we are not going to see it if we do for a while. They're not going to put and allocate funds to something

that's not bringing in the numbers, and we all know that this did not bring in the numbers. Not at all. Wait, can we talk about before we go? Can we talk about the audience, the people that were in the audience for AFR? Did you see that Gary and Teresa Oh, my gosh.

We, you know. Oh, my gosh. We knew that Teresa was going. Ben knew somehow. And then Heather and I discussed earlier in the week how we didn't even think Gary was going to show his face because of, you know, the chopper up and put her in the shed comment. But then he was there. They even threw to him in the audience.

I was like, I don't know how. That's a weird. Did you notice that the first time that they, that they introed him when they were saying everybody, they were like, Jesse was like, hey, so and so. hey he was like hey joan and chock how's it going and like they chatted and he's like hey gary and then he goes and hey jess and spencer like he did not talk to gary the first time that they pointed about and i was like interesting but then at the end they did toss to him and i was like still interesting because gary said when he was on with you and ben he never met mel he never

talked to mel before this experience um so yeah i agree that was a little bit weird that he was in the audience. I thought it was weird that, so Teresa and Leslie were there. Joan was there, but that was it from Gary's season. All the rest of the women in the audience were from Mel season. So it's interesting that they didn't invite any of like Susan and Kathy or like some of our other favorite goldens were in the audience. Why would they have Teresa be there if they weren't going to throw to her? Okay. So if you haven't listened, we didn't. episode with Joan and Rachel Rechia that. Yeah. And they were both in the audience. And they said that during the commercial breaks, right? You guys get up and talk to each other and stuff like that.

They said zero communication between Gary and Teresa and they were sitting extremely close to each other. Why would they put them extremely close to each other if they weren't going to utilize it for our entertainment? And I don't get it. I don't get it. We will, well, I, I, not going to say what we have coming up, but I, we're going to have to get into this more. We're going to have to dive into this more. We have to get Teresa on the podcast. I, I know that she was on with Charlene, but we need to have like our time with Gary and now our time with Teresa. I agree. Okay. If I were Teresa, I would not have gone knowing that Gary was there. I agree. Unless I'm there to like speak

or say something, I'm probably not going to want to be in the same room. Fly across the country for that. my ex that says weird stuff like that. I know. Okay. All right. This was fun. Until next time, guys. And we won't have a season to recap in a long time.

So give us ideas as to what you guys want us to talk about or who you want us to interview. We appreciate all the feedback. We love you so much. Until next time. I've been Ashley. I've been Heather. Bye. Follow the Ben and Ashley I, almost famous podcast on IHartRadio, or

or subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts. She said, Johnny, the kids didn't come home last night. Along the central Texas plains, teens are dying. Suicides that don't make sense. Strange accidents and brutal murders. In what seems to be, a plot ripped straight out of Breaking Bad. Drugs, alcohol, trafficking of people. There are people out there that absolutely know what happened.

Listen to Paper Ghosts, the Texas Teen Murders, on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. On the podcast health stuff, we are tackling all the health questions that keep you up at night. I'm Dr. Priyanka Wally, a double board certified physician. And I'm Hurricane Dibolu, a comedian and someone who once Googled, Do I Have Scurvy at 3am? And on our show, we're talking about health in a different way, like our episode where we look at diabetes. In the United States, I mean, 50% of Americans are pre-diabetic. How preventable is type 2? Extremely.

Listen to health stuff on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Robert Smith, and this is Jacob Goldstein, and we used to host a show called Planet Money. And now we're back making this new podcast called Business History about the best ideas and people and businesses in history. And some of the worst people. horrible ideas and destructive companies in the history of business. First episode, how Southwest Airlines use cheap seats and free whiskey to fight its way into the airline business. The most Texas story ever. Listen to business history on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get

your podcasts. On an all-new episode of IHeartRadios Las Culturistas, Jennifer Lawrence is dishing. Jennifer Lawrence. Let's go, let's go! From her hilariously awkward run-ins with A-Lister's. I don't know what I was expecting, but he was just like... Nice to meet you. To her unfiltered take on beauty treatments. I'm so upset I think the Botox before that.

And a jaw-dropping reveal you won't see coming. I don't know if I can announce this, but I'm just gonna. Open your free IHeard Radio app. Search Las Culturista and listen to the full podcast now. What up y'all? It's your boy, Kevin on stage. I want to tell you about my new podcast called Not My Best Moment, where I talk to artists, athletes, entertainers, creators, friends,

people I admire who had massive success about their massive failures. What did they mess up on? What is their heartbreak? And what did they learn from it? I got judged horribly. The judges were like, you're trash. I don't know how you got on the show. Check out Not My Best Moment with me, Kepp on stage,

on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcast. This is an IHeart podcast.