The Ben and Ashley I Almost Famous Podcast - Almost Famous In Depth: Ben Flajnik & Jake Pavelka

Episode Date: August 13, 2020

It's TWO TIMES THE PLEASURE.Ben and Ashley go IN DEPTH with not one BUT TWO Bachelors… Ben Flajnik and Jake Pavelka. Since ABC isn't re-airing the infamous seasons with Ben and Jake's ...Ben and Ashley are doing it JUST FOR YOU.Ben Flajnik relives that sad boat ride away on The Bachelorette and he tells all about the infamous skinny dipping scene.  Everyone will fall in love with Ben F again while listening to him go deep with Ben H. and Ashley I. and we allllll began to wonder ...how is this guy SINGLE?!??!?!Then, Jake shares some behind the scenes stories about watching a contestant from his season fall in love with a producer.   Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Listen to therapy for black girls on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. This is Ben and Ashley I, almost famous, in-depth. This is Ashley's favorite time. In-depth podcasts are just like, I feel like it, Ashley, where it's a time where, like, kick my shoes off, I put my feet up, I take a deep breath, and we just sit down to see where these conversations go. And it's time for another in-depth on the Almost Famous podcast. Yeah. So this podcast will be two in-depth interviews. First, we're going to start out with Ben Flannick.

He was the one who ended up with Courtney Robertson in Bachelor season 16. And then we'll be talking to Jake Palvaca, who ended up with Vienna in his season, which was that season, nine. Anyway, both guys ended up with the villains of the season. I don't think either of these girls are villains in real life, but that's what they were portrayed as. And let's get that conversation started with Ben F, the Ben that came before Mr. Higgins.

Ben was a contestant on the seventh season of The Bachelorette, where he proposed, but unfortunately, was said no to by Ashley, I'm going to say this wrong. Ikenetti, is it Ashley Hebert? Nope, Hubert. Hubert. It's French. I knew it. He was later chosen as The Bachelor on the 16th season of The Bachelor, where he proposed to Courtney Robertson.

Well, and less than one year later, that relationship ended. Ben is from Sonoma, California, and is a winemaker. He's the founder of Iron Wines, which is a winemaking company that specializes in, I'm going to ask him how you say this, but he's on now. Ben, what kind of wine do you specialize in? What is this Provincial? Yeah. It's a region in France. Okay.

Welcome to the Almost Famous Podcast. We're pumped to sit down with you today. This is how in-depth work. We really have no agenda for this. We just want to sit down and catch up on where you're at in life, where you've been in life, and maybe where you're, going as well. And we just, Ashley and I want to start this by saying, thank you for taking the time to sit down with us. Yeah, totally, man. You know, it's COVID, so I've got plenty of time. Don't we all? Where are you recording right now? I'm actually in Odessa, Texas, at my best friend's

house. He was actually another contestant on the Bachelorette. We've remained a very close touch over the last decade. Lucas Daniels. So I know I would know his face. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So you met on The Bachelorette. You stayed friends and then you guys were like just hanging out together during COVID? We're buds. Yeah, I've actually been out here a couple times during COVID.

It's, you know, there's not a whole lot going on in West Texas. So it's nice to be able to, I know, the comforts of Texas are nice. It's got a big old office. And I like, I like the people out here. Yeah, definitely. I know this time has been crazy for all of us, but you spend most of your time still in Sonoma, correct? I do, yeah.

That's home. I actually lived in San Francisco for the last 14 years and just left like six weeks ago for good. Cities changed a lot, and I'm kind of on this like, eat, pray, love, three to six month journey. That's why I'm here and all eventually back in Sonoma, but only time will tell.

so you don't have a permanent residence right now i don't have a permanent residence look at that no it's a cool time to catch you for an end up i was going to say this is the perfect like the perfect season just to sit back and process life together it feels really good like i've never been this happy it's nice not having you know brick and mortar and all all this stuff i put it all in storage and you know wherever i end up it'll that that's where i'll go so what inspired you to be such a vagabond um i just figured like rolling with the chaos was the right move um with so much uncertainty and everything that's going on in the world i just figured i'd just i'd take

my golf clubs and uh one of my cars and kind of hit the road and um i'm discovering a whole lot more about myself and the people that i surround myself with and you know where i'm at professionally and what I want to do. So it's, it's been a really, really positive move. What are some of the, I mean, this is not where we plan on starting, but I think it's a beautiful way to start. Because, I mean, honestly, these in-depth are just to get to know you better. What were some of the things that led up to the decision to finally make this happen? I mean, I know, even last night, I'm going to give you a little context in my life right now. Last night I had a bunch of guys over to my house and reading a book by John Eldridge called Get Your

life back. And the whole concept of the book is to eliminate the unnecessary distractions so that you can pull back who you are, who your childlike soul is, you know, how you can bring joy back into life so you're not on the go. And it was interesting to sit around with eight guys or four guys, I guess, last night and two guys on virtually. And talk about how many of us have this desire to get something back that we don't even know what it is. And it feels like if we were to have a little courage, we'd maybe take the step that you just took to rediscover and to get away. So I'm really intrigued what it is that made you say yes to this. Honestly, you know, I just, San Francisco is a beautiful place in a wonderful city. It had changed

a lot. And I just, it had changed so much from the city that I originally loved. And I think, I think it was just kind of time to get away from that geographic location. And then secondly, like professionally, I closed a couple of my own companies. And I was just like, man, maybe I should just like go and search and talk to different people and be around like people I trust and love the most and kind of see where I belong. I think that's kind of the purpose of this whole journey. And so far, you know, I've been able to, like, put some check marks on some things and feel inspired.

But my entrepreneurial spirit is back. It was just like creating space for myself physically and mentally has been really, really helpful. And I find myself being more introspective. and I'm reading more like you've been just like with and again like there's so much craziness going on in the news and all this stuff and I try not to try not to bother with any of it and like find what's important to me and then I feel like at the end of this journey I'll be somewhere that I should be hopefully for the you know the duration of my life or or at least a long time

so does this mean that Ben F is no longer a winemaker no I still No, I still have a winery. Oh, okay. Yeah, and I still have, you know, a number of my own projects and things like that. But there's, you know, I like, probably the two of you are entrepreneurs and like exploring new different things. And so I feel like just being stagnant in one place in my house in San Francisco, I wasn't getting those creative juices flowing. And so I'm finding it on the road. That's interesting.

I just told Jared we were outlying on the beach in Newport, Rhode Island. And I was like, I feel like I get most creative and most in business mode when I'm somewhere relaxing. Totally. It's very inspiring. And you just have to get out of, like, the location, really. Yeah. It's really important to kind of get out of your comfort zone, I think. Again, like surrounding yourself with the right people, I think, is, is all.

also really important. And I'm one that I'm like, you know, a little bit of a vagabond. Like I like living in nice hotels and like staying with friends when I can. And so I'm, I'm very lucky. And then I, you know, we'll work, you know, X amount of hours a day and then try to be creative for the rest of the time. And things seem to be shaping up nicely. Ben, this is awesome to hear. I'm excited for you. I think a lot of people out there right now, especially during the season where there is a lot of changes in most people's lives, I think they're going to hear this and at some level relate, which is ideal for an in-depth. Ben, let's take a break here, and when we come back, we're going to start back at your childhood

and work our way all the way up to when you're the bachelor and now kind of digging in a little bit further to where you're at in life today. So we'll take a break. We have Ben F, who is the Bachelor on the in-death podcast. Hi, my name is Enya Yumanzoor. And I'm Drew Phillips. And we run a podcast called Emergency Intercom. If you're a crime junkie and you love crimes, we're not the podcast for you. But if you have unmedicated ADHD...

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I'm taking you on an exciting journey of self-reflection. Am I ready to enter this new part of my life? Like, am I ready to be in a relationship? Am I ready to have kids and to really just devote myself and my time? I wanted to be successful on my own, not just because of who my mom is. Like, I felt like I needed to be better or work twice as hard as she did. Join me for conversations about healing and growth. Life is freaking hard.

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And we're locked in. That means more juicy chisement. Terrible love advice. Evil spells to cast on your ex. No, no, no, no. We're not doing that this season. Oh. Well, this season, we're leveling up.

Each episode will feature a special bestie, and you're not going to want to miss it. Get in here. Today we have a very special guest with us. Our new super secret bestie is the diva of the people. The diva of the people. I'm just like text your ex. My theory is that if you need to figure out that the stove is hot, go and touch it.

Go and figure it out for yourself. Okay. That's us. That's us. My name is Curley. And I'm Maya. In each episode, we'll talk about love, friendship, heartbreak, men, and of course, our favorite secrets.

Listen to the Super Secret Bestie Club as a part of the Michael through a podcast network available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. I'm Dr. Joy Harden Bradford. And in session 421 of therapy for black girls, I sit down with Dr. Ophia and Billy Shaka to explore how our hair connects to our identity, mental health, and the ways we heal. Because I think hair is a complex language system, right, in terms of it can tell how old you are, your marital status, where you're from, you're a spiritual belief. But I think with social media, there's like a hyper fixation and observation of our hair, right? That this is sometimes the first thing someone sees when we make a post or a reel.

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watching former teammates retire and more. Never a dull moment with Pino. Take a listen. What do you miss the most about being a pro athlete? The final. The final. And the locker room. I really, really, like, you just, you can't replicate.

You can't get back. Showing up to locker room every morning just to shit talk. We've got more incredible guests like the legendary Candace Parker and college superstar A.Z. Fudd. I mean, seriously, y'all. The guest list is absolutely stacked for season two. And, you know, we're always going to keep you up to speed. on all the news and happenings around the women's sports world as well.

So make sure you listen to Good Game with Sarah Spain on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports. So, Ben, we covered that you grew up in Sonoma, California. What was your childhood like? Let's talk about your nuclear family? Yeah, Sonoma, you know, Sonoma's the best. it was it was nice that the the little town was featured on on both the shows that I was on

because it's such a such a beautiful little community that's the perfect word for it everybody kind of knows each other you know there's 10 12,000 people that live there it's wine culture um my my parents were were very dedicated to their their children and my mom still is um and so my upbringing was very you know suburban but with a with a European twist you know Sonoma's very European in a sense it was a really it was a really lovely childhood really was now your family wasn't in winemaking from the beginning right no they weren't my mom was a teacher my dad worked in like the medical field and the wine stuff is just like I feel like if you are born and raised in an area where it's it's around you kind of catch the bug there was

always wine on the table you know my my dad was from originally like eastern europe and so you know there was i was probably had my first glass of wine when i was six or at least like sip and yeah it wasn't it wasn't a big deal um and the people that are in the industry are like super supportive especially being from a really small town um and so i i learned a lot i have really great mentors along the way people that taught me taught me a ton and I'm still very very close with those people today and you have one sister one sister yeah she's living in Marin she's just had we have like our first of the next gen um Josephine she's two and a half years old she's really sweet she's that's like the main reason I cried when I left for this little little journey my sister

still gives me about about leaving but She's kind of the apple of everyone's eye and has really made our family dynamic super strong. My sister married one of my best friends, and he's a scratch golfer, and he's the best. So it's like, we've got a good thing going on in Northern California. And like, you know, despite this like crazy journey that I'm on, you know, ultimately I will probably end up back in the Bay Area at some point. You know, I'm just like, you know, I'm still single. And so I'm like, I buy a house. So I, you know, just a lot of things go on.

You know, if this was a, I've learned my lesson. But when Harrison comes on this podcast, we end up talking golf for like five to ten minutes every time. And our listeners, I don't think, love it. So if this was any other podcast, I would love to dig into the golf game a little bit. But for the sake of, and it's everything inside of me just wants to talk to you about it. But for the sake of this show. we're not going to get into it um so ben you just mentioned it but you know sonoma has this this this wine culture around it you enter into the business just can you give all of us a

perspective of how big your vineyard is and um and and how much of your life that takes up now yeah so it used to be a whole lot more so i used to i started a winery back in 2000 eight with a childhood buddy. We built that brand up for a few years and then, you know, cut to Bachelorette and Bachelor and we sold, you know, exponentially more cases. That wasn't the reason for me going on the show, but it was obviously a very nice benefit. So we were able to sell those brands to a larger company. I was like, I'm done, I'm out, no more winemaking because it's a really, really difficult business. Although it's really fun, it's quite challenging to make a buck. So we were lucky. I started making Fernette and then I started a new

line of wines about five years ago. When my buddy called me, he's like, I've got some extra granash laying around. My ex-girlfriend at the time was a big fan of rosé. So I was like, screw it. I'll just make some rosé for fun. And now I'm like back into the wine business, which I don't really, you know, I love it. But like I didn't plan on being back into it again. And so I focus primarily on on rosé. I don't own any vineyards at this time. I just like contract all my fruit. I bring it in I crush it. We make it and it's ready in five, six months. And it's, you know, it's good stuff and it's delicious. And rose is appropriate for this time of year or any time of year, really. But what I love about the category is that people are always down to drink, you know, more than one

bottle, which makes, makes it a fun time. Yeah. So you definitely didn't plan when you went to college and graduated with a bachelor's degree in music production to do wine. What were you thinking about doing initially? Well, funny enough, like I was, I was in brewing in college. So my job, I went to University of Arizona. I was the assistant brewmaster at this brewery during college, which was the best job ever. So I loved, I loved fermentation. I loved being able to, you know, take these things and then create this, this tangible product that people would be like, well, you made this. This is amazing. And I loved that, that elicitive response from people when you when you handed them that gift that thing was before i was even like selling stuff right

and um that made me feel really good because someone else got they found value in it that was the important part now let's flash forward then because at some point during this uh the bachelorette calls and uh i mean i remember your season because you had you did and many do but you had a lot going on outside of being on the Bachelorette and being the Bachelor. But it obviously, as you just mentioned, it affects all of our lives so much. I mean, you know, changes a ton. How did the process work leading up to getting on the show? My sister signed me up.

And so I had another company at the time. I was doing digital marketing. I've always been kind of in tech and out of that. But myself and the producers decided to pick winemaking as my my title because it's more romantic but it takes yeah it takes a fun wine you know so we we we laid off that and so I remember being in in my office in San Diego and it was kind of a joke but I just kept kind of going through the casting process and one day they called me like we'd love you to come on the bachelorette and I remember being on the phone and like opening up my office door

and be like hey Brad I made it and should I do it and he goes yeah bro do it that was really and I'm sure I don't know what your casting experience was like but like we had to there was some in-person stuff but we had to make DVDs remember for DVDs we had to film it and like put it down and like send it in the mail I did that too I think I was probably like the last cycle to have to set yeah yeah us would probably be the last cycle that sent it in like with a physical disc yeah and then it was kind of it was off to the races I'd loved I loved my time on The Bachelorette. I loved it. It felt like, it felt like a great vacation to me. Unfortunately, like I had a lot of, there were a lot of good dudes on the show, as I'm sure

both of you have made lots of friends from the franchise. And so I hold those relationships very near and dear to my heart. Obviously, I'm sitting in West Texas. My buddy's always like, you really want to come out to Odessa? Uh-huh. But, you know, in comparison to like being, you know, the guy, which I still consider to be like my, my hardest project yet. It was so, so difficult. And then, you know. Oh, yeah. Well, we're going to get into that, but I want to know what kind of relationships you were in before you said yes to The Bachelor. How many serious ones, anything that was like truly life-altering? Um, yeah, I had my heart broken in high school. Uh, there was this girl who like didn't, you know, we were very close friends. She didn't pay. We were close friends, but like,

she ended up like dating this other dude and I was just totally crushed. And then college, the same thing. I had this girl that I loved and she broke up with me because I was, you know, graduating and she's like, I just want to enjoy my last year. And then she started dating this dude like two months later. And I was like, no. And then after that, I was like single for a while. I did the single thing for a long time, you know, a bunch of three month things in there.

my longest relationship was after the bachelor was in a relationship for about four years with the same girl but but yeah it's not not that i'm like opposed to being in a relationship by any means i like it but um my life is you've got to be like agile um and flexible because i'm i like being here there and everywhere um how how old were you when you got on the bachelorette um i I think I was 28 or 29. Yeah. Something like that. Yeah, I think I remember that too.

All right. So let's start out with The Bachelorette. I mean, what was your experience on that first night? First night, you know, it's funny. I remember, well, you look back on it now and like the fashion is so different, right? It's like, man, why did you wear that suit? I keep telling Ben this watching the goat episodes. I'm like, my biggest takeaway from this episode was,

the fashion is horrendous. Everything looks so cheap, so gaudy. It's incredible. And I remember the suit that I wore, I got in Paris at, like, Hugo Boss, and it was, like, tailored to me. And I thought it looked great. Then I, like, I went back and watched it. And I was like, that's kind of an ill-fitted suit. But the first night was, was nerve-wracking. I actually ended up, like, I had a lot of anxiety through the Bachelorette. I was not really used to. the environment and being told what to do a lot of the time, or at least not having like the freedoms. I shouldn't say like being told what to do because they don't really do it. But it's the freedoms that I really, really missed. So like, you know, I found Seleson in my buddy Lucas and my buddy Constantine along the way.

And we got to, we got to travel to some really, really awesome places. those really fun. They put you up in like beautiful hotels. I love nice hotels like I mentioned before. And Ashley, I was intrigued with Ashley early on, actually. I liked her. And I liked that she paid attention to me at like an earlier stage. So I felt like, oh, maybe, you know, maybe there's a shot here. So that made me feel pretty good. Did you ever imagine being final two on that one, on that first? Not a million years. And it's funny. I talk to, you know, some of the producers that I that I had Elon and Peter

just the best of the best you know best of the best I love those guys and they I think they said like they didn't they didn't expect me to make it through the first night and let alone yeah they

why would they say that I don't know I mean like you know there's a certain caliber of person that gets or at least in my season that was like put on the show and they're like no this guy has no chance and so um yeah like i you know i still remember making it to the end and really being like floored at what happened because that was um it's it's interesting to watch back now like i i will laugh every time like i see a clip or something but like at the time it was

so embarrassing it was so so bad the uh if it makes you feel any better uh nick viall was also predicted by the producers not to go very far. Oh, really? All right. You know, that's interesting because I remember this now that you're talking.

Alon actually during my time on The Bachelorette had compared me to you and said that our initial response to being in that environment was very similar. So like not scared of it yet anxious, not reserved, like, we

put walls up but more like i got really tired because i was constantly like in my head nervous anxious unable to process the environment around me quick enough to like stay in tune with it but over time for whatever reason somehow you know it gets more comfortable but it never feels like uh never feels normal it never feels like some really embrace it and can just like really step into and I remember Ilan looking at me and saying you're handling this very similar to the bin before you interesting well you know I think that's a testier character Ben Higgins but nice just a nice guy buddy you know and that's there's they cast for you know all different reasons but you know like that I feel like the nice normal people with with stuff going on at

home probably process it very differently than those that are you know they're looking for Instagram followers or something like that. That's my guess anyway. Yeah, it was a, it's a weird season. And for you, it led up to a final proposal. You know, at the very end of your time on the bachelor, you did get down on one knee. Looking back now, you know, everybody has very similar questions.

Did you mean it? Do you regret it? Were you sad? I'm going to ask those same questions. But what do you remember about that moment? You know, I remember being like very confident in my decision. I remember thinking that this was it and I was really excited about it. I still to this day do not regret doing that. It felt right in the time and I don't know if it's because of like the bubble that you're in or whatever it is, but it's weird because when she said effectively no, I was really quite angry. I remember this. was quite angry because I felt like I felt like I had been like almost tricked a little bit

and I don't like blame you know the production by any means but you know it was it was part it was just the whole thing I just felt tricked and I was mad and I was like I this doesn't make any sense and there was and like in that moment what did I say I said something like the most poignant thing that like I could ever have come up with good things don't end unless they badly and I watched that like a number of years ago and I was like good for you buddy like that that's great that's brilliant you said that just like out of nowhere you just go bam good things don't end unless they end badly yeah while I'm like pissed off and unsure of like everything but again like I don't regret it but I do remember when they put me on that little

tin boat and sent me out to see I remember it was brutal. I remember feeling like a little bit of sense of relief, honestly, where like maybe this was, maybe this was the end. Granted, it was embarrassing, but, you know, at least I, at least I went out honest to myself and I meant what I did. And so it was an accomplishment, I suppose.

Yeah, you're the only final two that had like, a weird, I'm sorry if this is the wrong word because it is, but like pathetic leaving experience where they put you on a boat. Like they wouldn't, I think that fans wouldn't like that today. They wouldn't be okay with that. Like, it's already a very embarrassing moment to get on your knee. Then you're going to go put him in a little. A little tin boat with like the sea had swells and Elon was in the front of the boat. And I'm just in there. And, you know, and my hair looked probably terrible. I don't know what was going on in my hair, but I apologize to everyone in advance for my hair. It just would have let me worn. Your hair looks great now. It looks so good right now.

If I just let me wear a hat, it would have been a lot better. But, you know, it was just terrible styling all around. There's this great meme that my buddy still send me like, you know, every year on my birthday. And it's like me and that cartoon Francine from Arthur. Francine. Oh, I was going to bring this up. Is that? It's just perfect. Is that? It's perfect. Okay. Great. It makes It's so hard. Anyway. It's Francine from Arthur, guys. Definitely Google it if Ben is okay with this.

Totally. There's plenty of memes out there. It's hilarious. I still, I still, I still, it's fine. Hey, you've made it once you have a meme. Totally, a very viral meme. Ben, before we take one more break, we then enter into your time as the Bachelor.

Yeah, yeah. On the boat, were you heartbroken? did you expect what was to come? No, I didn't expect what was to come. I think I was just stunned in that moment. I remember being on the airplane going home, and I cried. I do remember that. So there was real raw emotion.

And then after like that big kind of exhale and all those tears, I did feel some relief. I didn't get a whole lot of closure around all of it, but like, you know, it all worked out as well as it could have. How long do you think the heartbreak lasted for? And would you consider it one of your great heartbreaks along with the other two? No, I, you know, honestly, like, I wouldn't put it up with the other two. It was different because of the environment and everything that was going on, you know,

it was definitely heartbreak. It was difficult, but it wasn't like that young, puppy love that you, you know, that you experience. I was definitely more weathered in the department of rejection in relationships by that point. Were you friends with JP? Yeah, and still I am. JP's a great dude. He's a good angler and he's a big fan of mollusks.

So we share a love of oysters and clams and all that good stuff. He's a good guy. That's how I pick my friends. Right? He's a good mollusk. I'm into it. That's what I do. A, Ben, there is still more to come.

Your story is not even halfway completed yet. We'll be back with Ben F on the Almost Famous In-Depth podcast. Hi, my name is Enya Yumanzoor. And I'm Drew Phillips. And we run a podcast called Emergency Intercom. If you're a crime junkie and you love crimes, we're not the podcast for you. But if you have unmedicated ADHD... Oh my God, perfect.

And want to hear people with mental illness, psychobabble. Yes, yes. Then Emergency Intercom is the podcast for you. Open your free IHeartRadio app. Search Emergency Intercom and listen now. The Super Secret Festi Club podcast season four is here. And we're locked in. That means more juicy cheesement.

Terrible love advice. Evil spells to cast on your ex. No, no, no, no. We're not doing that this season. Oh, well, this season we're leveling up. Each episode will feature a special bestie, and you're not going to want to miss it. Get in here! Today we have a very special guest with us.

Our new super secret bestie is The diva of the people. The diva of the people. I'm just like text your ex. My theory is that if you need to figure out that the stove is hot, go and touch it. Go and figure it out for yourself. Okay. That's us. We're good.

That's us. My name is Curley. And I'm Maya. In each episode, we'll talk about love, friendship, heartbrates, men, and, of course, our favorite secrets. Listen to the Super Secret Bestie Club as a part of the My Cultura podcast network available on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Hi, I'm Janica Lopez, and in the new season of the Overcover podcast, I'm taking you on an exciting journey of self-reflection. Am I ready to enter this new part of my life? Like, am I ready to be in a relationship? Am I ready to have kids and to really just devote myself and my time?

I wanted to be successful on my own, not just because of who my mom is. Like, I felt like I needed to be better or work twice as hard as she did. Join me for conversations about healing and growth. Life is freaking hard. And growth doesn't happen in comfort. It happens in motion, even when you're hurting. All from one of my favorite spaces, The Kitchen. Honestly, these are going to come out so freaking amazing.

Be a part of my new chapter and listen to the new season of the Overcomfort Podcast as part of the My Cultura Podcast Network on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. I'm Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford. And in session 421 of Therapy for Black Girls, I sit down with Dr. Othia and Billy Shaka to explore how our hair connects to our identity, mental health, and the ways we heal. Because I think hair is a complex language system, right? terms of it can tell how old you are, your marital status, where you're from, you're a spiritual belief. But I think with social media, there's like a hyper fixation and observation of our hair, right? That this is sometimes the first thing someone sees when we make a post or a reel. It's how

our hair is styled. We talk about the important role hairstylists play in our community, the pressure to always look put together, and how breaking up with perfection can actually free us. Plus, if you're someone who gets anxious about flying, don't miss session 418 with Dr. Angela Neil Barnett, where we dive into managing flight anxiety. Listen to therapy for black girls on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Get fired up, y'all. Season two of Good Game with Sarah Spain is underway. We just welcomed one of my favorite people and an incomparable soccer icon, Megan Rapino, to the show, and we had a blast. We talked. We We talked about her recent 40th birthday celebrations,

co-hosting a podcast with her fiance Sue Bird, watching former teammates retire and more. Never a dull moment with Pino. Take a listen. What do you miss the most about being a pro athlete? The final, the final, and the locker room. I really, really, like, you just, you can't replicate, you can't get back. Showing up to locker room every morning just to shi-talk.

We've got more incredible guests like the legendary Candace Parker and college superstar A.Z. Fudd. I mean, seriously, y'all. The guest list is absolutely stacked for season two. And, you know, we're always going to keep you up to speed on all the news and happenings around the women's sports world as well. So make sure you listen to Good Game with Sarah Spain on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports. Okay, Ben, so let's talk about. when they first asked you to be the bachelor how many months was it after you got done by ashley did you feel stoked or a little bit weary um good question it was i remember where i was i was at the winery and it was like two weeks like two weeks later um two weeks yeah it was really really quick uh and i told him i would you know give him a few days uh i was coming into harvest so always going to be busy making wine. You sound like Chris Souls.

Well, say that again. Chris Souls was also very concerned about it being harvest season. Oh, yeah, yeah, that's right. That's farmer boys. And I was more concerned with, like, I suppose, like, how my mom would take it all. Because she, you know, she had a hard time with me being on television the first time. And this was a very, very different thing. But I think I deliberated for maybe 48 hours and I was like, sure, why not?

Like I had a ton of fun on The Bachelorette and I enjoyed it immensely really despite the outcome. So it was pretty quick. What about it? Did your mom, like, what was she most hesitant on? I think just like the intrusion into family and like our story, you know, my dad passed away. when I was 24 and so that was a big storyline and I'm sure it was like hard for my mom to relive as it was for all of us but honestly like I've said this a lot that when I was on The Bachelorette you know in speaking into that that camera and like telling your story and like being

super authentic I I kind of like healed big time around my dad's passing I was able to like talk through it and I watched those episodes years ago and I see this like this kid kind of like getting over it and and like coming to terms with it and like talking through it and it was like it was super cathartic and and Elon was a big part of that he asked the right questions and I'm thankful for that that period of my life it is therapy for sure was that your first experience of therapy in a very non-traditional way yeah yeah you get the nail on the head. It can be very therapeutic if you embrace it and you're willing to like, you know, show your true colors. I think that I think you're spot on. I, uh, we've,

we've had many guests now on in-depth podcasts and one of the themes, I think most would say, if they get asked a question or just that it comes up that their time on the show, good or bad, you know, no matter how it, it went for them, that no matter what the time on the show was therapeutic or there was growth within it and it leads ashley and i we say it now quite often that we have this theory that if you go on the show if you want it to be a grown experience it is one of the most forced environments to that i've ever been in that's allowed me to grow as much as i did during that time i would never be the man i am today without the show i agree and i can tell you that even if jared wasn't part of the show that i would in no way be married right now because it really

just shot me into a growth spurt, especially when it came to love relationships and vulnerability. Yeah. When are you ever, like, actually talking about that stuff, that deep? Exactly. Never. Well, even when we do know a podcast. Yeah.

It is. I pay somebody to have me talk to him about it these days. Yeah. Me. Ben, a question I always love to ask bachelors. When you were asked to be the bachelor, it's exciting. It's fun, right? We just said it.

Like, it's like, why not? And then you get there on night one, you get to the mansion, and you start meeting the people, you know, the founders of the show and Chris Harrison and you start getting prepped. If you could flash back to that moment, what, what did you feel like standing there knowing that within an hour you're going to be walking out of a driveway as the bachelor? Man, that was pretty, it was pretty intense. You know, I'm a pretty mellow dude. And I, you know, obviously anxiety is a big part. of it when you just I think even like in the beginning of like kind of clamped up a little bit you just it's it's so wild and so big because on that night there's more people around than the

rest of you know the production if you will so there's those cranes and cameras rolling around and all this stuff and you're used to being a contestant where it's it's micro but but now you're the guy now you're the lead now you got to like carry this thing and it was really for me it was about I guess showing some restraint in the beginning just it was show it was my goals were like to show a little bit of restraint until I felt comfortable and also make all of the women feel as humanly comfortable as possible that's that's the job of the main person in my honest opinion that's awesome it's a weird night though it's a weird night and it's a long night it's such a long night yeah you go from zero to 100 and I think that's you know you go from

being asked and being excited to all of a sudden being in the environment and then having like a 14 hour day as the bachelor knowing that every second your your voice is being recorded even when you're falling asleep within conversation so I get it and and it's just always intriguing for me to hear you know people like you who step into that and how you how you how you processed it. So who knows, maybe a future bachelor's listening right now. Yeah, good luck to now. Oh, that's cool. I mean, yeah, maybe Matt is listening, maybe some young boy out there who's like 15 and the show's going to be around for the next 15 years. I mean, it's a great show. It's a great show. It's a great production. I get it. I don't think it will end. Let's talk

about Courtney. Did she get your first impression, Rose? forgive me for not remembering that uh no my first impression was went to a girl named lindsay was your honor up um lindsay was my runner up that's correct uh lindy wrote in on a horse and um lindsay was great and and still is great we'll chat every now and again from time to time Courtney um Courtney was yeah i mean everyone was beautiful and she but she walked through i think she was the last one to come out of the limo Courtney was And she exuded a different kind of confidence she had, which I, which I really liked. She, she knew who she was in that moment and had clearly had been around cameras being a model and all.

So I was naturally drawn to that confidence. Now that we're, I mean, how many years, are we eight, nine years removed? Is there a girl from your bunch or a couple girls that you look back and maybe, you wonder what if or when you think about your season they kind of like stand out to you besides lindsay and courtney um that's a really good question there was i think it was the the number the third girl nicky from texas nicky um sterling i believe her name is um and she she like disappeared from like the face of the earth and i've like i've not that i'm like in search of of nicky sterling but i always want to like reach out to her and be like you know like thank you

for being so sweet and so nice. I just always wanted to let her know how much I appreciated her being around. But as far as being in a relationship with anyone else, that's too tough to say because I was, you know, I was very much, you know, Courtney was my pick and that I was very much okay with that. Well, Nikki Sterling, if you're listening, reach out to Ben and maybe we'd have another Peter and Kelly's situation on our hands. Oh, boy. Sorry, I'm just trying to match me. Ben, I want to dig in a little bit to the Courtney relationship, if you don't mind.

It obviously, you know, there were storylines that came out during the show. You know, we have our iconic Ben F moments that still flash up on screens during, you know, Bachelor recaps and especially now the goat is airing. But one of the things that's unique is we were kind of. kind of prepping for this is your relationship with Courtney was unique within the Bachelor franchise because you were together. You then broke up, but then you got back together again showing that there was like a pull towards each other. In that season of your life, what was going on? You know, it was it was really hard to kind of stand by Courtney at that time because

when the show was airing, it was just, it was just madness. like obviously it wasn't shown in like a great light for her and I was like who is this person and I was really confused so we we called it off like while the show was airing and we started chatting again you know I think I think we're like let's just take a break I think I don't even remember if we broke up a break but we definitely weren't together and we started to kind of like rekindle and chat again before taping me after the final rose and things were pretty good for a while, actually, you know, after that moment, after we reconciled, because we had gone through this crazy experiences together and, you know,

there was love there for sure. But, you know, ultimately in the end, it kind of ran its course. I personally never thought that Courtney was nearly as villainous as they put her across, even when I was just a fan watching. I was like, I think this is a girl who, who was being silly and sarcastic and she was just having fun in the interview room and she didn't really mean any harm. She was just like trying to be entertaining. And do you feel like that is what the case was, but she gave them such good content to make it look evil with like music and all that stuff? I totally agree with you. It's funny because, you know, when your producers reached out to me for this thing, like I haven't watched my season in its entirety ever, but I was

recently in in San Diego with with a buddy and he's like let's let's watch it we watched the first four episodes and I found myself just laughing at Courtney I'm like good for you girl like go go for it you know yeah yeah as a you know watching those I'm like all right I get it and and she she is quite funny and she's and she's quite nice and quite lovely but she got just she kind of got a raw deal when the that time in your relationship that you know the the the show and the fans were reacting natively to Courtney and you were by her side as her fiance at the time and trying to make a relationship work, how difficult was it to stand by her side? I mean, obviously it ended it, but was it just, was it tearing you up too? And

why did it ultimately decide to say goodbye for a bit? Yeah, you know, it was it was hard for me because I felt like I always had had like a good vibe and people, you know, respected, respected me. And so, you know, standing by this villain was really hard for me. And, you know, in all honesty, I probably just kind of chickened out a little bit. I was like, I just, I can't, I can't deal with this. I'm not used to this. And I was on, I was on the road a lot. I was like doing a ton of, you know, appearances and like bottle signings for my wines all over the country. and so like people were constantly coming up to me and I'm you know asking me to sign these like us weekly magazines that were like just not nice and I was like I this is brutal man like that's kind of why I disappeared from the whole franchise I was like I don't I don't know if I can handle the negativity um sometimes I think about that if that was a mistake or not because there are a lot of you know really really nice people that have come out of this franchise um I'm just you know one of the old old souls Can you speak about your confusion?

Like, you're with a girl who seems super lovely in that you love. And then on the TV, she's coming across totally different. How did you figure out which one was the real her? Yeah, that was hard, too. I think for me, I was frustrated because I was like, like, how could you be so stupid? Like, this is a TV show. Like, how much you watched this before? Like, why wouldn't you have acted differently, that kind of thing?

So for me, I think it was more like a disappointment. I think that's what it was. how was she handling it then um not well it was rough on her man she got she got um heat from everywhere it was and you know for for me to be to have been in a relationship with that person you know i'm sure she expected me to you know stand by her side and and i didn't um and so that's you know that's on me i remember being in the interview room a couple times myself and just being in a sassy mood and thinking i'm gonna i'm channeling course Courtney, I'm going to, like, eat this freaking rose.

I'm going to twirl it around and be super obnoxious and say obnoxious things. And it never was a good idea. No, right. No. Yeah. Are you guys communicative of it all today? I mean, there's some big updates in Courtney's life. Do you guys keep in touch?

Yeah, we, you know, she wrote this book a number of years ago. And we didn't speak for five plus years after that thing because there was, you know, that's one's on the story and that was pretty not cool. We reconciled a few years ago and we actually ended up meeting up over New Year's for a few days in Santa Barbara. And just to see if like, hey, is there like, you know, we went through this thing together.

Is there anything there now that we've like buried the hatchet? And I think we both decided that like, you know, there wasn't, but there's still mutual respect. I'm, I congratulated her on her baby. She still talks to my sister a lot. They're still very close. So there's, you know, there's no ill will or hard feelings. I'm really happy for her and, and her new baby and, and, um, Beyonce or whatever he is.

Um, so. Her book is probably the most salacious bachelor book there is. I talk about how it helps me with casting a lot because she goes into the nitty gritty there. What was it about the book that really irked you? So I, I never read it, but I remember just hearing like, bits and pieces. The part that irked me is that, like, she talked about my mom,

which I didn't think was very cool. Outside of that, you know, everything else was... Yeah, if you most of the mom, it doesn't really matter. Yeah, that's pretty bad. It's fine. You can talk about me, like, I've been in the public lie. Like, I get it, but moms are off limits, man. Mm-hmm, sure are.

The, I know our fans, before we move on here, I know everybody listening, is going to freak out if we don't if i if if one of us doesn't ask this question so one of the most iconic moments in your season is the ocean scene where you skinny dipped into the ocean yeah um how in the world and so this is because i've now done this and how in the world as a man who is reserved like yourself who is a little anxious about this experience how do you get to a mindset where you're like screw it i'm getting naked on national tv and i'm going to the ocean I mean, if you were on a beach in Puerto Rico and some babe asked you to go skinny dipping,

wouldn't you do the same thing? That's kind of like, it's kind of a no-brainer. Was that the thought process? Like, hey, come on. Yeah. I mean, go for it, man. Like, this is a once in a lifetime opportunity. It's funny that I forgot about the skinny dipping portion of it.

But I think there was like an uncensored cut too. You could like see our butts and stuff way back. question was it just a sexy time or was it sexy time i'll leave that up to the imagination but you know you're sequestered for a long time you guys can figure that one out on your own yeah that's why nobody's forgotten about it nobody's forgotten about that thing you might have forgot about it nobody else has well that's good to know after you after you after you After you and Courtney broke up, Courtney found comfort in the arms of another bachelor, Ari Lyondyke. Was that weird seeing her date somebody else from the franchise quickly?

Yeah, it was. That was tough because we were buds for a moment there. But they lived in the same area, and they were probably, probably had gone through similar experiences. It's all water under the bridge. but I do remember that being kind of difficult at the time. I bet it would be. Yeah, it would be, it would have really hurt to see that, especially within the franchise.

Ben, we actually always has this fun game at the very end of the podcast of these in-depth where we just rapid-firely ask you questions. But before we're getting into that, I do really want to hear where you're at today. We last saw you on The Bachelor. We know how that story ended. Are you dating now? Are you pursuing anybody?

Yeah, you know, dating's a little tough when you're doing an eat, pray, love thing. Yeah. There's, you know, there's no one in particular that I'm dating at the moment. Again, like, I'm open to it. But, you know, for now, I think it's more about just kind of re-centering and finding myself again. and like figuring out a good place for me to be in so that someone can fit nicely into my life um i think that's probably probably the right answer there but no still single man just you know yeah yeah hey it's it's uh it's a wild world and i'm sure life is going to take you in a great

direction here especially with the intention that you're putting into it and uh last time i saw a headline from Ben F, which wasn't that long ago, I feel, is there was a rumor being spread that you were seeing Chris Jenner. Let's be honest about it. I remember there was just so much rumor around it, but we never really got an answer. Yeah, I don't think anyone really got an answer. It's interesting that the old Chris Jenner did. So I did Chris talk show, whatever, you know, year after, or whatever it was.

And I remember she's like, you know, if you're ever in the area, like, let me know. You know, we grabbed dinner or something like that. And I was like, great. So I took her phone number and I ended up calling her or texting or something. I was like, hey, I'm in the area. Went over to the house. Like, I met the whole family, met Kanye. Oh, my God.

It was crazy. And I remember I went over the afternoon and, like, they had the little baby North was just like in her little bassinet on the, you know, the island in there. and everyone's hanging out. I was like, these people are really nice. It was great. Christian and I never dated by any means. I was working on a tech product that I thought could be beneficial to like their brands and things like that.

So we had, you know, a few business dinners. My business partner was at, you know, half of them. But I have nothing but respect for that family. I mean, like, the amount of attention they have to go through compared to what we do and how they handle it and how nice they were. to me for just intruding in their in their life for a few weeks was was really they were really lovely i do love the fact that when people who have actually had like nice have had real encounters with the Kardashians like gone over to their house and stuff they always say that

they were like so lovely and so warm and down to earth and i love hearing that because obviously they're one of my favorite public families um you may have not dated chris but did you ever kiss her Oh, Ash. No, Chris and I, Chris and I worked out. No, it's fine. Okay, good. I just asked the question, okay?

I knew you were thinking it, Ashley. I knew in your head you're like, I just want to get as much information on the Kardashians right now as possible. But I have to ask those questions, especially since there was an episode of the Kardashians where she went up to Ben's winery and she, like, hung out for the weekend. Tell us about that experience. He came up with, like, Jonathan.

They were up there for a Kanye concert. So they came up. and like filmed at my winery and gosh i haven't thought about this in so long this is actually a really great story and so after we were shooting you're like do you want to come to the conier show which was in oakland i was like hell yes i do go see conier and we had obviously you know the best seats in the house and i'm backstage and conier comes off and i met him you know a couple weeks prior and um he he turns to me and he goes what did you think of the show i was like what do you care like you're connie it was great man

that's so cool that was pretty cool knowing him as little as you do like is it sad to see just the way that he's had this sort of like you know moment publicly yeah and you know i don't know the whole the whole story or anything but but anytime like anyone's dealing with mental health issues and stuff it's not cool to not cool to poke fun that's what i'm assuming this is probably going on and especially how nice they all were to me. I hope that they manage to navigate this situation according. Ben F., the best

critic that Kanye's ever asked for her response. Yeah, it's so good, man. So good. Ben, we really appreciate your time with us. It's not quite time to say goodbye to yet, though. We're going to take one last break. And when we come back, Ashley is going to do

what she does. She does a lot of things best and well, but this is like one of my favorite moments of every in-depth. We'll be back with Ben F and Ashley will host the rapid fire round during this in-depth, almost famous podcast. We'll be back. Hi, my name is Enya Emanzor. And I'm Drew Phillips. And we run a podcast called Emergency Intercom.

If you're a crime junkie and you love. of crimes, we're not the podcast for you. But if you have unmedicated ADHD... Oh my God, perfect. And want to hear people with mental illness, psychobabble. Yes, yes. Then Emergency Intercom is the podcast for you. Open your free IHeartRadio app.

Search Emergency Intercom and listen now. Hi, I'm Jenna Lopez and in the new season of the Overcomfit podcast, I'm taking you on an exciting journey of self-reflection. Am I ready to enter this new part of my life? Like, am I ready to be in a relationship? Am I ready to have kids and to really just devote myself and my time? I wanted to be successful on my own, not just because of who my mom is. Like, I felt like I needed to be better or work twice as hard as she did.

Join me for conversations about healing and growth. Life is freaking hard. And growth doesn't happen in comfort. It happens in motion, even when you're hurting. All from one of my favorite spaces. The Kitchen. Honestly, these are going to come out so freaking amazing. Be a part of my new chapter and listen to the new season of the Overcumper podcast as part of the MyCultura podcast network on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

The Super Secret Festi Club podcast season four is here. And we're locked in. That means more juicy chisement. Terrible love advice. Evil spells to cast on your ex. No, no, no, no, no, we're not doing that this season. Oh, well, this season, we're leveling up. Each episode will feature a special bestie, and you're not going to want to miss it.

Get in here! Today, we have a very special guest with us. Our new super secret bestie is The Deva of the People. The Deva of the People. I'm just like, text your ex. My theory is that if you need to figure out that the stove is hot, go and touch it. Go and figure it out for yourself. Okay.

That's us. We're in the head. That's us. My name is Curley. And I'm Maya. In each episode, we'll talk about love, friendship, heartbrates, men, and of course, our favorite secrets. Listen to the Super Secret Bestie Club as a part of the Mycultura podcast network available on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. I'm Dr. Joy Hardin-Brandford, and in session 421 of Therapy for Black Girls, I sit down with Dr. Othia and Billy Shaka to explore how our hair connects to our identity.

mental health, and the ways we heal. Because I think hair is a complex language system, right? In terms of it can tell how old you are, your marital status, where you're from, you're a spiritual belief. But I think with social media, there's like a hyper fixation and observation of our hair, right? That this is sometimes the first thing someone sees when we make a post or a reel is how our hair is styled.

We talk about the important role hairstyles play in our community. the pressure to always look put together and how breaking up with perfection can actually free us. Plus, if you're someone who gets anxious about flying, don't miss session 418 with Dr. Angela Neal-Barnett where we dive into managing flight anxiety. Listen to Therapy for Black Girls

on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Get fired up, y'all. Season two of Good Game with Sarah Spain is underway. We just welcomed one of my favorite people and an incomparable soccer icon, Megan Rapino to the show, and we had a blast. We talked about her recent 40th birthday celebrations,

co-hosting a podcast with her fiancé Sue Bird, watching former teammates retire and more. Never a dull moment with Pino. Take a listen. What do you miss the most about being a pro athlete? The final. The final. And the locker room. I really, really, like, you just can't replicate,

you can't get back. Showing up to the locker room every morning, just to shit talk. We've got more incredible guests like the legendary Candice Parker and college superstar AZ Fudd. I mean, seriously, y'all. The guest list is absolutely stacked for season two.

And, you know, we're always going to keep you up to speed on all the news and happenings around the women's sports world as well. So make sure you listen to Good Game with Sarah Spain on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports. I'm so excited for this rapid fire because I feel like you have given me so much to work off of in this interview.

So it's going to be very personal to you. Are you ready? In this eat, pray, love journey that you're on, what are you eating that fills your soul? Pizza, lots of pizza. All pizza. It's because it's the best thing on the road, pizza. Okay. Amazing.

Is there a certain spot that people should go in Texas or in San Francisco? A must? My favorite Bay Area pizza is probably pizza hacker. It's in San Francisco and in Marin now, probably enough. I have to ask the Kardashian that you would most like to take on a date if she were single or in another lifetime. probably Kim because she was the nicest to me she was the most welcoming yeah okay cool oh my kim um you tweeted recently that you love Taylor Swift you said quote Taylor Swift you're the best so what's your favorite song on folklore um boy she's I've had a thing for her even when she

was doing that early country stuff um the one probably my favorite it's just It's just great. That whole album's great. Is that safe to say that Taylor Swift is your celebrity crush? Yeah, her and Kristen Wigg, because Kristen Wig's hilarious and a babe. That's a good duo. That would be a really fun triple date. Right?

Two on one? Let's go. A two on one with Kristen Wig and Taylor Swift. Let's set it up. That would be amazing. Okay. Let me know if you can pull that one off, please. You're single.

So what is your most, like your must have quality in a lady? Independence is probably Numero Uno. I like a woman that I can like take to a, you know, a gala or a party or something like that and can do their own thing for 15 minutes and come back and just like feel as comfortable was when I left her. How do you date? Are you on the apps? I'm not on the apps.

I've done a little bit of like the Instagram sliding and DMing every once in a while. That seems to be like a decent channel. Ben is a fan. Big fan of that. Right? I met my fiancee on that. I just messaged her and said, hey, I think you're pretty. And hey, look at us now.

That's all it takes. Hey, you're pretty. her pretty okay you led into this question bachelor girl who you'd most like to have notice in her dms oh gosh like back okay so let me remember the bachelor girl who you'd slide into your yeah yeah you slide into her dms or that you wish would show up in your inbox there you go it's probably Jojo Fletcher. Jojo Fletcher. You guys were, you knew, you know Joja, right?

Like you had some like brotherly connection or something with her brothers? I don't think so. No. Oh, okay. It's not me anymore. But I almost thought about like recasting again when I found out she was the bachelorette. That would have been a shocker. Fantastic story right there.

That's amazing. We all love Jojo. Okay. What is your favorite wine? to drink personally when, you know, you are e-praying and loving. I shard-d so hard. Chardonnay, French, chardonnay is my favorite. You shard hard.

So hard. So does Ashley. Do you shard the hard? I'm more of a red wine, girl, but I like the expression. My mom shards real hard. I'm telling you, if you want to team up, I recently bought that domain, and I'm figuring out what to do with shards so hard. but i'll i'll join in yeah french charred burgundy's and chablis those are my favorite okay cool and lastly what is

the wine that you serve at an at home date or you know order on the menu for a lady and yourself um i'm a white wine kind of dude um so yeah sauvignon blanc or chardonnay or some like melons some muscaday something like that so it's just like lower alcohol easy to drink um and drink white wine like a middle lady's woman it's kind of my my jam we got to get you on the housewives next now that's a reality show that ben flinnick would excel on there you go i'll just like show up shirtless delivering bottles of chardonnay that would be i would watch it uh hey ben you're the man i really appreciate you thank you for coming on we end every in-depth with this if you have uh 30 seconds to talk to the listeners uh with anything going on in your life that you just like to leave them with or anything you'd like

promote and talk about the stage is yours, uh, starting now. Um, yeah, I mean, obviously, I'm still making, I'm still making rosé. So if you want to, if you want to buy any rosé, it's, it's, it's ion. dot wine, not dot com. I am not wine. But more importantly, I think that, you know, given the, the climate and the situation of what's going on in the world today, like, dig deep. Um, listen to yourself, you know, try to, try to take some time. And if, if you can't do need pray love at least um you know find a few days to kind of reset because it's crazy man i just i don't know what i don't know where this is going to what the world's going to look like at the end of it but i i just hope that everyone's um you know mentally sane and happy so surround

yourself with with loved ones and support each other that's really the big message i'm i'm looking for these days the original bachelor ben we appreciate you buddy thanks for coming on thanks very much guys hey we mentioned it uh at the beginning you might see it in the show notes. Don't forget that today's episode is two bachelors for the price of one. Up next, Jake Pavelka. Yes, Jake Pavelka, the original pilot bachelor. Hi, my name is Anya Emanzor. And I'm Drew Phillips. And we run a podcast called Emergency Intercom. If you're a crime junkie and you love crimes,

We're not the podcast for you. But if you have unmedicated ADHD... Oh my God, perfect. And want to hear people with mental illness, psychobabble. Yes, yes. Then Emergency Intercom is the podcast for you. Open your free IHeartRadio app. Search Emergency Intercom and listen now.

The Super Secret Festi Club podcast season four is here. And we're locked in. That means more juicy cheesement. Terrible love advice. Evil spells to cast on your ex. No, no, no. We're not doing that this season. Oh.

Well, this season, we're leveling up. Each episode will feature a special bestie, and you're not going to want to miss it. Get in here. Today, we have a very special guest with us. Our new super secret bestie is the diva of the people. The diva of the people. I'm just like text your ex.

My theory is that if you need to figure out that the stove is hot, go and touch it. Go and figure it out for yourself. Okay. That's us. That's us. My name is, Curley. And I'm Maya. In each episode, we'll talk about love, friendship, heart breaks, men,

and of course, our favorite secrets. Listen to the Super Secret Bestie Club as a part of the My Cultura podcast network available on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Hi, I'm Jenna Lopez, and in the new season of the Overcover podcast, I'm taking you on an exciting journey of self-reflection. Am I ready to enter this new part of my life? Like, am I ready to be in a relationship? Am I ready to have kids and to really just devote myself and my time? I wanted to be successful on my own, not just because of who my mom is. Like, I felt like I needed to be better or work twice as hard as she did.

Join me for conversations about healing and growth. Life is freaking hard. And growth doesn't happen in comfort. It happens in motion, even when you're hurting. All from one of my favorite spaces, The Kitchen. Honestly, these are going to come out so. freaking amazing. Be a part of my new chapter and listen to the new season of the Overcumper podcast

as part of the MyCultura podcast network on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. I'm Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford. And in session 421 of Therapy for Black Girls, I sit down with Dr. Afea and Billy Shaka to explore how our hair connects to our identity, mental health, and the ways we heal. Because I think hair is a complex language system, right? In terms of it can tell how old you are, your marital status, where you're from, you're a spiritual belief. But I think with social media, there's like a hyper fixation and observation of our hair, right?

That this is sometimes the first thing someone sees when we make a post or a reel is how our hair is styled. You talk about the important role hairstyles play in our community, the pressure to always look put together, and how breaking up with perfection can actually free us. Plus, if you're someone who gets anxious about flying, don't miss Session 418 with Dr. Angela Neal-Barnett, where we dive into managing flight anxiety. Listen to Therapy for Black Girls on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

Get fired up, y'all. Season two of Good Game with Sarah Spain is underway. We just welcomed one of my favorite people and an incomparable soccer icon, Megan Rapino to the show, and we had a blast. We talked about her recent 40th birthday celebrations, co-hosting a podcast with her fiancé Sue Bird, watching former teammates retire and more.

Never a dull moment with Pino. Take a listen. What do you miss the most about being a pro athlete? The final. The final. And the locker room. I really, really, like, you just can't replicate, you can't get back. Showing up to locker room every morning just to shit talk.

We've got. more incredible guests like the legendary Candace Parker and college superstar A. Z. Fudd. I mean, seriously, y'all. The guest list is absolutely stacked for season two. And, you know, we're always going to keep you up to speed on all the news and happenings around the women's sports world as well. So make sure you listen to Good Game with Sarah Spain on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports. From Dallas, Texas, he was known as the very first Bachelor, who was a pilot. He was originally a contestant on The Bachelorette, Gillian Harris's season,

and was brought back soon after to star as The Bachelor. Jake Pavelko, welcome to the Almost Famous In-Deft podcast. Thanks, Ben. I appreciate it, man. It's good to be here. How are you? We're doing really well. We're doing great.

Ashley and I are excited to talk to you today. this is a special in-depth where we're going to actually have two former bachelors in one episode hey jake to get it started here um i know right now you're working and so there's going to be a little background noise where exactly are you at in the world well uh so as you know um i left the airline industry i no longer fly anymore the airlines very unfortunately because of COVID pandemic. I'm hearing some very, very deep furloughs. I think I've heard almost 2,500 pilots across the board at all the major airlines. So I left the airline and I opened up an environmental business here in Dallas, Fort Worth. And it has been just, we're in full explosive growth mode.

It has been amazing. Good for you. That's amazing. Yeah. When did you make that decision? So I officially, I guess I, my, I completed my 17th year at the airline in 2018 and left there in 2018. So pretty recently. Yeah, I miss flying, but I'll tell you what, owning a business. I know, as you know, Ben, you know, owning a business is just amazing. It's the hardest thing I've ever done, but it's the coolest thing I've ever. Absolutely cool thing over there. It is a, I guess a pursuit worth going down.

I always tell anybody to do it. I don't think it's easy. And in fact, I just said it the other day. I said the one thing about having your own business and starting a business is you never feel fully capable of doing it. Yes. You always feel a little bit behind. But hey, you know what, for now, let's start back at the beginning where people that listen to this podcast, they'll remember you from. You grew up in Texas and started taking flying lessons at a young age.

What exactly, what got you into flying? So I just always had, I used to have dreams that I could fly. And so I always knew I'd be involved in aviation in some capacity. I didn't realize it would turn into a career. So I just started taking flying lessons when I was 10. I'd go mow yards and then go buy 30 minutes and go mow more yards and go buy 30 more minutes. and it just turned into enough flight time to actually work for a company called AmeriFlight out of Burbank. It was my first job.

And I remember a 35 millimeter film that you put in the cameras? Yeah. I used to fly undeveloped 35 millimeter Fuji film up and down the West Coast in the middle of the night. So I'd go from Burbank up to Oakland down to Vegas, back to Burbank. Interesting. Now, how did The Bachelor get a hold of? Did you apply or were you nominated? Good question.

My church nominated me. So the pastors of the church came up and said, hey, if we nominated just a pretty cool show, would you be interested in that? And I was like, well, of course, but, you know, I'm not a celebrity and I'm not royalty or anything like that. Why would they be interested in me? And sure enough, I'm still kind of crazy that all that happened.

What do you think it was about you that you're passive, the church saw they were like this is a guy that i want to sign up for the show because that that is probably a especially back then a big step for any of those people to take in your life to say i want to sign you up for this dating show especially in the church yeah uh yeah i told them i told them that i knew you been and they're like oh yeah you you got to you got to do it yeah i was the cool high school kid back then yeah i was the nerd back in high school at that point no so what they were what they were hoping was, you know, I grew up in the church, Christian, and they're like, you know, we know that you're not going to go sleep with all of the, all of the women.

You know, you'll be a gentleman and, you know, I went on there and tried my absolute best. Do you feel like you made the church proud? Yes. But, you know, what's crazy, though, so it doesn't matter what you do on the, you know, during the fantasy suite, whether you intend to have sex or not. It doesn't matter. The way the show is produced, you know, it's like the door is closing really slow, and then a hand reaches around and puts the do not disturb.

So it's completely insinuated no matter what you do. Oh, I know all about that. Yeah. Uh-huh. I sat on my couch and enjoyed watching you, Ashley. That was, you did a good job. It was fun. Oh, thank you very much.

Well, they aired Allie season last week, and of course, Allie is one of your top four girls. how does it feel just like watching people from your season move on and just like how they you know form families of their own and just like it all started with you oh that's great um you know i i haven't talked to alley there's several of the uh several of the women that i've kept in touch with over the years you know they're married now have kids and it's really cool to see you know just see their lives progress and everything which yeah that's interesting i was wondering why my Instagram blew up last week. Yeah, it's probably, I mean, honestly, it is.

It's probably because these women who are definitely a part of your story are now back on the television for these goat, you know, kind of reunion, re-recap shows. One of the purposes of the in-depth podcast is to, is to go beyond the show and to go into the lives of the people that have participated in it. And Gia was somebody that we sadly lost. and can you just spend a little bit of time, Jake, and for anybody out there that maybe didn't get to watch the season and didn't get to know her personally,

what kind of person was she? Oh, she was, she had a thing for athletes. That was her vice right there. She loved dating professional athletes. But, golly, I remember when she got out of that limousine, she was so drop-dead, beautiful. her personality matched it i mean she just glided over to me i knew that just the way she addressed me that night i'm going wow i mean if your personality is just half of you know how beautiful you are

and turned out she was just the whole package um it's funny i remember we were in st lucia during the season and we were sitting on the beach and you know i really wanted it to be her, but I could tell that we just, maybe we're looking for different things in life, and that it probably long term wasn't going to work. And what he did is it turned into a really good friendship afterwards. She was somebody that I can fight it in. And she'd been, you know, through that journey with me. So it was like when something would go wrong or go right, you know, we would, you know, stay in pretty close contact. We did the bachelor or bachelor pad, the second season and the bachelor pad together, that was a blast. So that was actually the first

person I was really close with that I lost in life. And so that was a really, that was a tough time in 2013. Gia's passing is so, so sad. I want to move on to just where you are in life today. Have you had a serious girlfriend since the show? You know, you left with, we all know that you with Vienna and it was very dramatic. Did not end well. Did that like prevent you from getting into another relationship soon after? No. I've actually dated some really amazing women after the bachelor. I've been in a relationship for we've kind of been on and off for about two years. she was going through law school at SMU and so it's really hard to spend time together so it was like we were on for a little while she was going through school now she's barred and has a

job and so that's looking pretty good so I'm currently in a serious relationship her name is Tiffany I think I'm amazing I think I remember this Jake you kind of talking about it once we were in Vegas that you had something good I had actually just met Tiffany then yep so I mean because you've dated for two years you've had some good relationships after your time of the bachelor which as we know didn't work for you as it doesn't for many people that go on the show but you gave it a good shot were you ever asked to be the bachelor again was i ever asked to be the bachelor again yeah like a second time no never asked to be again so i mean because it's interesting you know you if we look back and you weren't asked to be the bachelor again but you're still considered one of those

bachelors that stand out to people what what do you think made you a great bachelor so it kind of seemed like the the franchise was i know at that time the franchise i don't say i know i don't believe the franchise was doing real well um i think what they did what mike flice did was was brilliant rather than bringing really well-known people in i think he started you know one recycling people that already went through the bachelorette or the bachelor having them back so i think that was a really good move on their part. And I was just a normal guy, you know, somebody that, you know, I throw a pilot uniform on and go move people around the United States,

kind of like Pete does. You know, just very normal people. I tried to be very relatable. I was myself. I tried really hard to treat, you know, the women with the utmost respect that they deserve. And, you know, I, not to mention one of the women on my season slept with producer so that helped with the ratings i think a little bit but uh oh yeah can we talk about that i remember that that's a big deal what was her name uh poppus your name was roslin roslin

rosslin poppice yeah she had a relationship with a producer like a pertly a cast producer yeah that was not produced i remember them talking by jake you're not going to believe this a guy's name was ryan uh i don't remember his last name but he was one of the field producers as it came in to do my hometown package. So he, like, shot all those flying scenes with the airplanes. But, yeah, I mean, I guess they wound up hitting it off when he was doing, when he was producing the house and everything and got real close, wound up being a storyline.

Are they still together? Do we know this? Do we know if there's, like, did anything ever happen? I don't think so. But she was worth losing his job over. I'm sure he got fired, right? He did. Yeah.

he did and they put it all they aired it all it was really surprising you not watch the show that you produce seeing what happens when you do that how did you find out about it so one of the producers told me i knew you know what it was cassie uh my my producer on there she said hey look something's going on with rosalind and one of the producers she said you can you can probably figure out what it is chris is going to come in and like fully disclose what it is but she's probably going to be leaving. So, you know, make sure that you're, you know, in a frame of mind to have a serious conversation with him. It's like, I know exactly what's going on. It was the second episode. We weren't deep enough into it. You know, it was kind of like, hey, if that's how

you're going to operate here, goodbye. I wouldn't do that to somebody. The thing is, I'm actually surprised it hasn't happened more often. Because you do get so close and intimate with the producers. and like they are the people that you are like connecting with and like sharing your soul with and the bachelor just seems like so far off um and like on a pedestal so i'm not i'm not completely surprised that this has happened or but i'm surprised that it hasn't happened more there were just girls on my season where we would talk about kind of like maybe not the full-blown crushes we had, but feeling a little something, something for a producer or two. That's because that, you know, those in the moment interviews, you know, they're asking, well,

Ashley, when he said that to you, how did that make you feel? And like, if I was him, what would you say? Right. And then there's just like that, um, they have so much like emotion toward you. And they're like, oh, I know, I know. It seems like they're feeling the exact same feeling that you are oh god you brought up a really good point if to do it all over again i would try to have a very like a very basic season like we don't need to go to you know indonesia or bali i mean all it's great australia things like that let's let's stay local let's go to the caribbean and don't put me on a pedestal don't make me out to be a celebrity let me just be me so that you know the women aren't looking up going oh my gosh it should be oh that's jake easy to talk to

easy to approach you know i could tell him anything and i felt that way with jillian it was like oh my gosh here comes the bachelorette you know because they they elevate you up a little bit and it does this psychological mind game when you're one of the contenders well but you know with all that being said too i i totally agree with you but since you were the bachelor i mean you have worked on some projects that have definitely kind of lifted you up to be one of those celebrities. I mean, if we go back at your resume here, you've done Dance with the Stars, you did Bachelor Pad, you're on the Bold and the Beautiful, and you've appeared on some other TV shows. So, I mean, from The Bachelor, you really have kind of created your own celebrity.

I guess I've never felt that way. You know, I mean, I, and that's one of the things that, you know, I want to, like, just tell both of you, it's like, it's so cool, you know. I mean, everybody in America knows who you both are, but you don't act any different. I mean, you're just very genuine on your Twitter feeds and your Instagram and everything. I think that's one of your best qualities. I've tried to do the same thing. I mean, I'm just Jake. I'm not, you know, I'm not a celebrity.

I'm not any better. I'm not any worse than anybody. It's just Jake. Yeah. Well, and I appreciate that, man. And it's something that Ashley and I try to do. We really lean on each other, especially through the podcast and kind of the people listening, just keeping level heads, never letting it get too high or too low. But keep your star up.

Keep your star up. Well, we got to. And stars are aligning right now for Caitlin Brist. Yeah, exactly. So many puns. So many puns. And one of our good friends, Caitlin Bristow, obviously, we found out on a go episode. a few weeks ago that she's going to be on Dancing with the Stars

in the next upcoming season, whenever that can happen. You've done Dancing with the Stars. Any advice for Caitlin? You know what? I've never met Caitlin. I just hear the greatest things about her. I'm going to try to go to one of the shows that she's on if they have a live audience. Yeah.

I honestly think she's going to do real well. Same. Just spend the time you need with your. coach and listen to your coach or listen to your listen to your pro how challenging was it like how exhausting i can't dance i always had to practice 10 hours a day i think it wore chelsea my partner out 10ly is you know a good friend of ben and mine and she was your runner up and she is now happily married and i think her her baby is due within the next two months i'd say yeah how does it feel seeing her in mommy mode that i think that's like she is built to be a mother so i couldn't be

happier for you know the crazy thing is 10 years later she looks exactly the same just striking yeah tinley's one of those tinley's one of a kind she's a really special special human she's a great friend of the podcast a good friend of ours it's somebody that we've all been really rooting for and we're just super engaged in i know ashley and i just really think highly of her yeah i was hoping that eventually tinley would wind up on dancing with the stars i can see her doing really well on that yeah she would take the mirror ball trophy yeah for sure she has such a dancer's body all right well jake thank you so much for joining us it um it means a lot that you took the half an hour out of your day thank you i'm sorry i was so rushed

it was hard to put this together so i appreciate the latitude hey no problem man it's great Hey, Ben, I always like to ask, and I want to extend the saying, Ben, is there anything that I can do for you? Do you need any, what can I do to help with your company? That's really nice, man. That's really nice of you. Right now, you could, you know, if you like coffee, just jump online and buy a bag of coffee. That would help. I'd love to see your name come across.

I'll do it. I promise I'll do it. Thanks, dude. What about you, Ashley? You know, when you have a kid, you can buy our children's book. Lucy and Clark's got a coffee love. I'll buy, I'll buy 10 copies. Okay, if you have a niece or nephew, that you promise to sign them.

Yes, of course. Lucy and Clark, a story of puppy love. I love it. Oh, that's great. Hey, Jake Pavelka, thanks a lot for joining us, buddy. Appreciate it. Thanks, guys. Bye.

Follow the Ben and Ashley I, almost famous podcast on IHartRadio or subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts. Hi, my name is Enya Umanzor. And I'm Drew Phillips. And we run a podcast called Emergency Intercom. If you're a crime junkie and you love crimes, we're not the podcast for you. But if you have unmedicated ADHD... Oh my God, perfect. And want to hear people with mental illness, psychobabble.

Yes, yes. Then Emergency Intercom is the podcast for you. Open your free IHeartRadio app. Search Emergency Intercom and listen now. Just like great shoes, great books. books take you places, through unforgettable love stories, and into conversations with characters you'll never forget. I think any good romance, it gives me this feeling of, like, butterflies.

I'm Danielle Robay, and this is bookmarked by Reese's Book Club, the new podcast from Hello Sunshine and IHeart Podcasts, where we dive into the stories that shape us, on the page, and off. Each week, I'm joined by authors, celebs, book talk stars, and more for conversations that will make you laugh, cry, and add way too many books to your TBR pile. Listen to bookmarked by Reese's Book Club on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Apple Books is the official audio book and ebook home for Reese's Book Club. Visit apple.com forward slash Reese Apple Books to find out more.

Why are TSA rules so confusing? You got a hood of you. I'll take it off. I'm Mani. I'm Noah. This is Devin. And we're best friends and journalists with a new. podcast called No Such Thing, where we get to the bottom of questions like that. Why are you screaming?

I can't expect what to do. Now, if the rule was the same, go off on me. I deserve it. You know, lock him up. Listen to No such thing on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. No such thing. Betrayal Weekly is back for season two with brand new stories.

The detective comes driving up fast and just like screeches right in the park I swear I'm not crazy, but I think he poisoned me. I feel trapped, my breathing changes. I realize, wow, like he is not a mentor. He's pretty much a monster. But these aren't just stories of destruction. They're stories of survival. I'm going to tell my story, and I'm going to hold my head up.

Listen to Betrayal Weekly on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Dr. Joy Harton-Bradford, host of the Therapy for Black Girls podcast. I know how overwhelming it can feel if flying makes you anxious. In session 418 of the Therapy for Black Girls podcast, Dr. Angela Neal-Barnett and I discuss flight anxiety. What is not a norm is to allow it to prevent you from doing the things that you want to do, the things that you were meant to do. Listen to Therapy for Black Girls on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. This is an IHeart podcast.