The Ben and Ashley I Almost Famous Podcast - Almost Famous In Depth: Dean Unglert

Episode Date: October 30, 2019

When it comes to Dean Unglert, we haven’t even scratched the surface of what made him who he is today. So on this episode of In Depth, Ben sits down with Dean to explore the stories you’ve never heard before... from the funny to the traumatic. Dean opens up about his relationships, his sexuality and we hear the intimate story that connects Ben and Dean on an entirely new level.   Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Listen to No Such Thing on the IHeart Radio app. Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. No such thing. This is Ben and Ashley I, almost famous in depth. Yeah. You feel like it sets a tone? Very 60 Minutesy. In-depth has been one of our favorite projects that we've ever done at the Almost Famous Podcasts.

It's actually, I was talking about it the other day. It's probably my favorite project I've ever done since The Bachelor. Here's the reason why. We get to sit for as long as we want, as long as we need, with people from the Bachelor, Bachelorette, talked to them about their life, what they've been through, who they're becoming, who they are, what's made them who they are, any stances they take on life. We just like to dig deep, and then you, the listener, get to know them better. Well, a few weeks ago, we started a poll, and it's ironic in a sense, and I want to tell you why.

We started a poll that said, who would you like to hear from in all of Bachelor Nation? bring them into studio and we'll do an in-depth with them. Well, you would expect probably from that poll that the most popular person from Bachelor Nation would be chosen. Well, the ironic piece of all this is the person that was chosen does not believe that he is the most popular person. He probably never has believed he is the most popular person. He actually, I think as we talked to today, will be, will make fun at some point of the fact that he was chosen. He'll make some comment that diminishes it. But the truth is this.

Dean Unglett was chosen in a landslide. And I think there's a reason why. It's one because, yes, Dean is charming, but charm can be deceitful. What Dean is is he's deep, he's real, he cares. He doesn't just walk past real situations. He walks into them.

And he's had his ups and downs as we'll talk about on the podcast today. But you get to know Dean because you spend time with Dean. And I think there's a relatability to Dean that has not only made America go this guy's got something more

and I like it but it also doesn't hurt that he's absolutely beautiful but he's so much more. Dean, thanks for coming in. Yeah, hey, thanks for having me. Thanks for that last little cherry on top so I really appreciate it.

You know, it's always great when somebody gives you a really good compliment that like, and I think you would appreciate being called real and then how much doesn't make you cringe when somebody's like, and you're beautiful. Honestly, that was my favorite part about the whole little monologue.

That's sweet. Because it's like, oh, he's deep. He walks into the situations. I'm just like, I'm a little uncomfortable. But then you sprinkle on that he's good looking. I'm like, oh, okay, this is all a joke. And now I understand. Now I know it's true.

Dean, how do we meet? You and I met for the very first time. Actually, we could have met at a wine store in low highlands in Denver. I think I've told you the story. I was with my best friend and his girlfriend. We walked in to buy some wine, to watch some, I don't remember, football maybe or something like that. But my season of Bachelor had hadn't aired. In fact, I had just finished filming, and I was in Colorado.

I didn't even see you, but my friend's girlfriend was like, oh, my God, that was Ben Higgins that just walked by. I was like, oh, we should have said hi, but we didn't get the chance to. I don't remember how we met for the very first time, though. I think one of the very first times, and this is funny, is I was sitting at breakfast on a date. Yeah. Well, no, we had known each other at that point, though, because I remember I stopped and I was like, oh, hey, Ben. Yeah. well that's funny that you say like that uh i actually said dean and you kind of like kept walking

you're like oh what's up dude oh yeah you're right yeah and this kind of kept going okay in my defense okay so ben was on a date at breakfast and i was like randomly walking with a couple of friends and i hear my name called and this is like fresh off the show so like you kind of get that a lot you know and i look over and i see this tall dude like you were kind of like standing in the shadows a little bit yeah and you were wearing like a flat build hat forwards and like low on your head which I had never really seen you wear anything like that before. And like maybe your facial hair was a little different. And I just didn't know who you were for the first like 30 seconds of talking to you.

It's fine. We're fine. But what's happened with Dean and I is Dean and I, and I'd like to say this, please tell me if I'm wrong. We met and we became friends pretty quickly. Yeah. And we got a real friendship, like one that is not, we don't do any events together really. No. I think the first time we met was in Tahoe when we were doing podcast stuff.

It might be. And we got to spend time together. We got to talk about life. And what intrigues me about you is that you're not afraid to talk about some of the, like, the depths of life. You don't run away when somebody wants to bring up something that's heavy. Yeah. I think sometimes I struggle to feel the empathy that you're able to possess.

But I think that something I've learned as of lately over the past two or three years or so is leaning into those difficult conversations can be fun and growth-oriented. You know what I mean? something that didn't really know for a very long time but yeah i agree i think it's fun to have those conversations you learn a lot about yourself you got to learn a lot a lot about other people that's why i'm a little envious you get to do this uh in depth on this show with ashley because i'm like oh that sounds like a fun thing to want to be able to do this this this is a blast yeah it makes this feel like it's real like this is there's no agenda of this i have

no notes on where to go with this it's it's wherever we want to take it is it hard for i wonder if this will be difficult for you because you basically know me in and out right so you know what questions you want to ask, but also it's not like there's no novelty to you to like learn about me as we go on because you already know everything. No, that's not true. So here's the thing I told as I was prepping for this, I was talking to a buddy of mine saying I get to do this today. And I said, here's one of the cool parts is how often you get to sit down with your friend no matter how will you know them and you get to ask them questions and they can't run away from it and they can't turn it back on you because you like to turn it back on me as quick as you can. But I'm hosting this. Like this is

this is my plane to fly and you've got to stay on board and so you're going to have to walk through this with me and so I think I'll get to know or hear things that I've always wondered that it's never been appropriate to ask sure you know but also bear in mind that the reason that I'm able to open up to you so much is because I'm able to direct the conversation in certain ways and feel comfortable through misdirection like that and so I wonder if me not being able to deflect the conversation back to you will shut me off at all we'll see yeah we'll see it's going to be a fun ride. Dean Ungler in studio. Dean, let's dive in right away. Sure. You just said something that I think is how I'd want to start this. You said you're unable to feel the empathy

that I would be in deep conversations or painful conversations. Take me out of it for a second. Sure. Why do you immediately say that about yourself? That I lack empathy? Yeah. It's something that I've kind of become more aware of as time moves on. And it's been kind of an issue, not an issue, but like a hurdle of sorts in past relationships. I remember I had this girlfriend in college who was like, you like don't feel things. You never feel any sort of way. And I remember I was like watching something on Netflix. And I texted her.

I was like, hey, I think I just cried. I watched something on Netflix. Like, are you proud of me? And she goes, oh my gosh, things are changing. I don't know. I think that I just kind of grown numb to that stuff. And it's like hard for me. It's like my viewpoint on life.

Like you know that foundationally or like our root values are a little different, similar but different, right? Like you get your values from different places that I do. And I think part of where I draw my values from, it's like a numbing thing. Like I'm a nihilist, you know, like I don't think that life has any meaning. But I think that the beauty in life not having meaning is that everything has value in it. And so I think like, you know, having conversations with people and getting like to dive into who they are and get to do this in depth, you know, it's like, be nice to people because life is meaningless versus you as you're like, be nice to people because it's just like the right thing to do. And like you have your faith and all that kind of stuff. You know what I mean? So I think the product is the same, but the process is a little bit different for us. And I think that the process is different for me is because I just like, I don't know. I've like been through some stuff with my mom, obviously, with my friends. and with my family and uh all that and i don't want to like ever blame the way that i am because of any of those things but i think that has obviously like a bit of a uh uh it's like a bit

of reason for it right i don't know your story was i don't know if you'd say accurately told during your time on on the bachelorette but you you definitely had a story that was told yeah um it wasn't inaccurately told i mean obviously it's like you're not going to have every uh every little crevice and crack of your story shown right like i'm sure when you were on the show it's not like it was ben higgins it was a shadow or a shell of yourself but uh yeah i mean they covered like the main points you know like my mom passing my family kind of falling apart and that was basically it but and tell me if i'm wrong i just as i've got to know you better i feel i mean watching those moments back and seeing that now on national television was it uncomfortable

Um, it was uncomfortable. It was the first time I had ever, like, watched myself back, right? So it's always going to be uncomfortable. On top of that, I was like, I was drinking to like cope with the discomfort, right? And so I didn't while we were filming, right? So I didn't necessarily like know exactly how I would come across having been like a little buzz or something like that, right? Like normally when you're drinking and your buzz and you go out to the bars and you like say something silly, like that's the only time that you have to deal with that. Right. But when you do it on TV, you have to deal with it a second time when you watch it back. Um, So there was like a little bit of anxiety written because I was like, okay, like what, how is this going to come across? Like, how am I going to look like, am I going to be coherent or am I going to like say the right things like that kind of stuff? So that was a little anxiety inducing. What's funny is the fourth time around on the TV show when I didn't drink at all, I had, I felt no anxiety, you know, stress when you think that because I was like, I was completely in control of everything that I was doing and saying. So it's like I have nothing to be afraid of, you know? Yeah. I totally get that. When I was The Bachelor, I barely drunk at all.

drink at all right smart um well yeah but and also because i had so much anxiety going into it i couldn't just i if i drank to covered up it'd take a lot of drinks um and your schedule is exhausting so you're like you know you're going to bed at 2 a m waking up at 7 a and probably it's like a constant hangover yeah it's not going to be fun i i watched your season without knowing you um and your your story during that time was was deeper than any other we've ever seen i'd like to believe no way I think the idea of you I think there was a moment when you laying on the floor of your father's house with Rachel

and everything had kind of fallen on around you during that hometown date and you were reminiscing on all the things that have happened to lead you that point I think there was a moment there where maybe just because I liked you already there was a depth to that moment that I felt an emotion that I don't feel watching this show

like your life was was being displayed in front of you things were what happened during that date would have ramifications past the show so I want to know from you I don't know how in the world you end up on this show

but during that like as you watch it back are you glad you did it yeah I think that in hindsight I'm super grateful that I did it because not only what like have I grown as an individual since the show the first show that I went on but also just like

seeing myself like i said i'm not much of an empath right so like i don't feel things but that first show that i went on when i cried for the first time on camera i was like looking back that night and i was like oh man i'm going to be like such a wuss like i shouldn't have cried i'm so embarrassed um and then i remember one of the producers was like man like people cry like as long as your story touches one person like you should consider it a success and i was like yeah that makes that sense i guess but then watching it back i was like so worried my friends were going to like, you know, make fun of me and like whatever as a guy crying on TV. But even just that small little thing, like, I guess provided a lot of growth for me to be like, okay, like it's okay to feel

things. It's okay to like be vulnerable and to like be upset and be sad and cry, which I never really felt before. And that's obviously something I'm still working on. It's not like it's going to happen overnight. But that in and of itself, just that first episode where it was Rachel and I in Hilton Head, South Carolina, or North Carolina, I can't remember exactly which Carolina it was. But I remember, I cried on that date. I told her about my mom, et cetera. And yeah, I was worried about it, but then watching it back, like, the outpouring of support from everyone, even my friends who were reaching out to me, they were like, because even before that, like, before I went on the show, like, even some of my closest friends didn't even know

that I, you know, lost my mom at a young age or whatever it was. And they watched the show and they were like, holy cow, like, I didn't know this. And it was just something that I'd never really wanted to share with anyone because I didn't want to feel like receive any sympathy or like preferential treatment because they felt bad for me something like that you know so um but wouldn't you here's the part that and this is where I want to pause you this what I don't get is wouldn't you want people to fully know you like these are your friends that you're worried about if they're going to make fun of you because you cry yet they don't know you and like getting to know you as a friend is is honestly sometimes impossible personally or just generally generally I would say yeah

And, like, if you're good friends, some of your closest friends don't know that your mom had passed at a young age, something that is a pivotal moment in your life for every reason. Yeah. I don't know. It's just like, as a 25-year-old guy, you're, you know, you're making new friends. You're, like, going out. It's just not really something that you bring up in conversation. Even, like, if you have an opportunity to bring it up, it's just not something I ever really cared to be like, hey, by the way, like, you know, this happened to me when I was 15 or a big part of it, too, was I didn't want any, like I said, I didn't want to receive sympathy or preferential treatment for it. I didn't want anyone to, I didn't want to be, like, liked for, liked because of the things that had happened to me.

I wanted to be liked because of the person I am now, not the things that had happened to me in the past, I think. And I just never really took it on myself to be like, yeah, like, this is my story, you know. And a lot of people, too, especially me, like, I don't feel like my story is wholly unique. I don't think that my story is, like, worth sharing. I, like, kind of, like, began to turn around on that a little bit, obviously having a podcast and meeting people like you. it kind of like it makes you feel like every story is special in its own way like sure it's unique um but every story is worth being heard as well and that's like taking some time to come around on but even now it's like yeah i don't know i don't it's hard it's hard to say really i guess

about why i didn't open up about that part of my life you know and it was such a long time ago and it's like obviously that between 15 and 25 is when i went on the show those 10 years are like some of the most transformative years of your life. And so I didn't even really associate my current self with my past self when I was 15. So it was just like, there's no point really diving into that side of it, I guess. Have you at all resented?

Because as I listen to you talk here, you know, I get it. I get that when you're 25, you're going out to the bars, you're meeting new friends. It's not a topic that's going to come up. Yeah. But now that it's happened, people know that about you. They know that a young age your mother had passed.

Yeah. Are you at all resentful that that's brought up so often now yeah i don't like that people can use it as an excuse for like my he behavior or something like that you know what i mean explain more tell me more like let's say because i'm obviously i make a lot of bad decisions in life i think we all do me maybe more so than others but sometimes i see the case being made like oh he had a hard upbringing so like let's give him a pass on this you know i don't like hearing that i don't necessarily think that just because my mom died when i was 15 or my friend hunter died when i was 10 or alice died when i was 21 that like that

gives me a pass on anything um so yeah i don't know like i just think it's kind of i don't think that excuses any type of bad behavior you know what i mean so i guess maybe that's kind of why i stay quiet about it that's an anti-victim mentality that you're taking so like you're saying don't give me sympathy don't don't lay off of holding me accountable to live to being a greater person because of the pains of my past yeah that's not an excuse for you i think it's a silly thing to think that it would be like who would ever want to use that like people use that excuses yeah but no one wants that like you should a you shouldn't really have excuses be it shouldn't be for anything that happened to you in the past like I don't know I just think it's silly it's like

okay that was a long time ago a B even if it was like that should encourage you to do things maybe better or differently and so I would never like I would never be like oh I'm sorry that I did this but when I was younger like this happened to me and so now I feel this way and that's what's making me act like this you know what i mean does that make sense i i it completely makes sense to me it's not common it's the thought process of don't use my passes and excuse is not common i i think it should be more common fair you can you can you can think that it's just not so when when you sit here and you tell me then let me let me try to get to the bottom of this what role did your past in these traumatic situations in your life that you're not that you're you're

did change the course of direction what role do they play in your life now uh i don't think if they're not an excuse i don't think they play any role in my life i mean sure they've they're they were of all stepping stones that like every time there something happened to me you have to come out the other side of it but i don't think that i don't know it's hard to say like obviously i'm a product of all of the experience that i've had as a person right and i would be a complete different person had none of those things ever happened and a lot of the good things in my life that have happened are in a weird way like because of those things, those bad things, right? So I would never say that I'm not who I am because of those things,

but they don't have, like, any bearing on my day-to-day life, you know? Like, I don't think they do at least. Yeah, yeah. I think one of the things that has always amazed me about you is that your thought process in these moments like this. Why? Because you really do believe that. And it's pretty true for you that.

that you don't use these things that have like definitely hurt that have caused tears that have caused confusion that have shaken your worldview up you don't use those as excuses for what you're doing today they're pivotal points they're their foundational building stones as you call them but they aren't excuses for hey because my mom has passed that's why i am doing xyz so i want to shift gears here because it's not fair for me and i don't really know what would be talked about when it comes to these bad decisions? What bad decisions are people talking about when it comes to you that they're dismissing your behavior because of your past? I don't know. You see a lot of, like obviously I've got not the most successful dating history, right? So it's like I would never

like now that I'm dating Kailen, right? I would never like if I lose my temper, which obviously doesn't happen very often if ever, but I would never blame a bad decision on something that happened to me back then because of that. Like so you lose your temper, right? I'm I'm like, oh, I'm upset, but it's okay because my mom's dead. Like, that's just kind of messed up, you know what I mean? Like, I would never do that. That's kind of what I'm saying, where it's like, and I think it's why people, I think it's why you're voted the one interview that everyone wants to hear, because I think you are

unique in that. I don't think you're alone in that, and I don't think you're wrong in it, but I, Dean, I think what intrigues people about you is that mindset because, yes, you've done things like we all have been considered mistakes, or maybe have hurt people in the process. or hurt yourself in the process. But you don't look at those situations, and this is the beautiful thing about being a friend of yours,

is you don't look at those situations and blame anything but yourself. You take ownership for it. I suppose, yeah. And everybody out there watching goes, there's something freeing about that that I want to know more about. And I want to know where that comes from.

I don't know where it comes from. I wish I could know where it comes from. Confidence? I don't think there's, I don't know. I don't know if I'm the most confident person in the world Maybe inwardly but I don't think I express I don't know do I am I confident I suppose maybe sometimes Tori's not even heard yes I guess so

I honestly I really don't know I haven't really put too much thought Into why that is that way I think again it boils back down So I mean when I was a kid up until I was about 13 or 14 We were pretty like devoutly Presbyterian We went to Sunday school and Sunday church every every week up until my mom got like really really sick and we had like this good foundational religious aspect to our family

even though like the kids as most kids do they hate to go to church on Sundays but my parents wanted to do it it was like an hour drive every day every Sunday I'm sorry and then when I went to college I kind of like shed all of that and I became for like three years or something

I was like a steadfastly atheist in college and I was like God isn't real all this is just bogus whatever I've kind of come around on that a little bit since then. But I think that those years in college, I was kind of just like very heavily nihilistic as well. And I was just like, nothing matters. All of the past is the past. The future is the future. And there's no reason to like let the past have any dictation on your future self, right? And so I think that's kind of where I took that mentality from. And even in

college, like I remember I was dating this girl when I was a sophomore. We had been dating for like 10 months or something like that. And I had just moved into a new house. And with that move I had like a shoebox that I had like a bunch of old pictures and stuff in and like letters and all that kind of stuff that I'd like never told anyone about and she like was moving with with me and we like opened it together and she was like oh my gosh like I'm finally getting like a peek into you as a child or like you're older you know like some of your memories and like something that I'd never really shared before I guess I've never really associated like past self with either present or future self for better for worse like what you're able to do with your platform is like you're building things right and maybe I guess like I'm ashamed of who I am now. or who I'm going to be. And so that's why I, like, kind of keep things under wraps a little bit. I don't know. I guess I haven't really, like, delve much too, much deep, much into that. If you just notice there, Dean's really good at, like, quietly turning it back on me for just a second.

It's really great. It's a really good skill set he has. But we're not going to let it happen today. We're going to take a break here. And when we get back, I want to talk to Dean. I want to start at the beginning. How in the world is Dean Anglet, who he is? And then also, how does he get on the show?

because it just doesn't make sense. You're going to hear at the end of the podcast, an interview with Bob Dalton. Bob Dalton, I both have started small businesses. Part of starting a small business is also hiring the team around you. Actually, when somebody asks me, okay, how do you make a small business work? My response is always, I never make it work. It's the team we have that makes this work. You want to surround yourself with the best people, and that's why I use ZipRecruiter.

Hiring can be a challenge as Codable co-founder Gretchen Heabner discovered. Gretchen needed to hire a game artist for her education tech company. She knew it wouldn't be easy to find someone to grow with her team. That's why she went to ZipRecruiter. Like Gretchen, Generis also uses ZipRecruiter to help find the most talented of people. In fact, before Generis even started, I was using ZipRecruiter. I was on ZipRecruiter to help me find jobs. ZipRecruiter doesn't depend on candidates finding you.

It finds them for you. It's technology identifies people with the right experience and invites them to apply to your job. So you get qualified candidates fast. Gretchen posted her job on ZipRecruiter and she said she was so impressed with how quickly she found qualified applicants. She also uses ZipRecruiter screening questions to filter her candidates so she could focus on the best ones. And that's, yes, that's how Gretchen found a new game artist in less than two weeks. Hey, I'm telling you, if you want to hire the best employees and surround yourself with the best people, ZipRecruiter is the way to do it. With results like this, it's no wonder four out of five employers who post on ZipRecruiter, get a qualified quality candidate within the first day.

See why ZipRecruiter is effective for businesses of all sizes. Try ZipRecruiter for free at ZipRecruiter.com backslash bin. That's Zipregor.com backslash B-E-N. Ziprecruiter.com slash Ben Ziprecurter, the smartest way to hire. Coming back with Dean Ungler. Dean, let's start at the beginning. You're raised in Aspen, Colorado. Yeah.

Right? More about Salt Colorado, but Aspen's the nearest town that everyone knows, you know? Close enough. Yeah. And pretty normal childhood. Yeah, I suppose. Talk about it. That is not convincing.

I don't know if I know your childhood very well at all. Where do you want to start with the childhood? Let's start at seven. Well, I was six, Ben. Okay, so a little backstory for the listener out there. I confided in Ben, a story that I have only just recently started opening up about. Actually, not too long ago to Ashley and Jared's wedding, I think was the first time I told you about it. It's one of the best.

I'll help you here, though. You tell yours, I'll tell mine. I was going to say that one of the reasons that I was able to open up to Ben about this was because he is, obviously, as warm and welcoming as he is, not only was he, like, receptive and empathetic, but he also had a very similar story of his own to share back with me, which only just helps us connect on a deeper level, I think, right? I don't want to diminish how great this podcast is going to be getting to know you. I have a feeling that this will be the segment that gets the most response.

My heart's beating a little faster than it normally does right now. I thought about this story a lot, and I thought about how, if I ever decided to share it publicly, how I would go about doing it. I never thought that I'd be sharing it on a podcast with you. Oh, let's do it. So I was bullied a lot in high school and middle school for one very specific reason. Well, yeah, for one specific reason. And I've only just started sharing this story, probably within the past year or so.

I would say December 2018 was the first time I started sharing the story. So less than a year, actually. And some of my closest friends know about it. My current girlfriend knows about it. Ben obviously knows about it. Ben's girlfriend knows about it. And you know what? I'm just going to share it anyways. I don't know if we can curse on this one.

Let's go ahead and bleep that out. 100% you can. So I was bullied a lot in middle school and in high school because of an event that happened to me when I was six years old. I hurt myself in a way that's very specific to how only a man can hurt himself. And I didn't have the courage to stand up for myself later on in life to the people that would then bully me for that event. So it was first grade. it was recess I was uh we had this like suspension bridge on the playground and on the sides of the suspension suspension bridge obviously were like these uh ropes to hold the bridge

in the air and one of the ropes came undone somehow throughout the wear and terror of the normal day and uh they were attached at the bottom by these little hooks that would like hook on to the bridge and so marks marks already kind of get into it little bit. East is not even looking anymore. And so as a six-year-old, curious, adventurous, excited,

I put my foot on the hook to like swing back and forth and beat my chest like Tarzan swinging through the jungle. And sure enough, that hook was small. My foot was small. Didn't have very good grip. Slipped off. This bridge was probably, I want to say,

seven feet in the air. I was, you know, three feet tall. So it was a tall bridge. And the hook, instead of finding anywhere else to fall, It decided to go right up between my legs, hook onto the thing that carries the two things that define us as men, and ripped up just about to just below the end of that other thing.

End of his penis. It literally ripped all the way up to the end of his penis. From his scrotum to the end of his penis. Ripped it. If we were using those words, sure, from about halfway on my ball sack to about three, just below the tip of my penis. About six inches from the tip of his penis. So like, you know.

Let's just say it was a big cut. with a way up to the top of it was a big cut uh yes and so obviously as a six year old i run to the doctor i'm like screaming i'm crying i have no idea what to do so i like hobble run all the way up to the nurse and she goes uh this is way over my head i got to figure out what to do with this i got a school nurse please so she calls my mom my mom i'm like laying in the nurse's off as my mom comes uh and she's like okay well we've got to like bring you to surgery so i go to like the nearest surgeon and they stitch me up i think it was like 40 or so stitches in my penis from my scrotum to the up the shaft of my penis down to just below the head um everything was fine obviously as a

six year old so i don't remember the pain too much i remember like some of the side effects like having to gauze it every every so often my mom had like take care of me clean me make sure it was like disinfected um and for the longest time i was like this is the worst thing that ever could have happened to me like i'm deformed i'm so abnormal everything was fine like my penis and strutum are perfectly fine i just got like kind of a gnarly scar down there you know what i mean we were able to urinate normally oh i don't remember i think so You need a catheter for an extended period? No, I definitely didn't need a catheter.

I remember one specific story. We went on vacation somewhere, and this hotel had to pool. And I really wanted to go to the pool, but I obviously wasn't allowed in the water because I had this open wound on my testicles. And I remember like hobbling, running down the hallway for a long time. I don't know. It was just this very distinct memory that I have. But as kids do, they like to obviously, like, create stories and start rumors. And what they did was they kind of started this rumor that I only had one testicle for a long, long time.

And it didn't really matter much when I was in elementary school or middle school that this rumor was going around that I had one testicle. But then when I got to high school, when testicles become an important thing, right? The rumor became that I only had one testicle still when I was in high school. And everyone, like, joked about it, like, behind my back and something, like, very rarely brought it up to my face, but it happened a couple of times. And I was always, like, so, like, ashamed and taken it, like, I couldn't defend myself because I just, like, wasn't confident enough to be like, I've got two testicles.

And I, like, everyone needs to know it. You know what I mean? And so I was bullied pretty heavily for that. And on top of that, I had like a very attractive. My sister was very attractive. And they always, like, bullying me for that. And then I, like, because of, I don't know if it was because of the stitches that I got on my scrotum or I had a couple of knee injuries as well, but I walked really funny.

And so everyone in high school, well, not everyone, like the upper classmen when I was playing football, they would always say that I walked around, like I had a dildo up my a and so because of these things. And he didn't. And I did not have a dildo at my. And this was the story that Ben and I bonded. over because Ben I think has maybe shared on this podcast or almost famous but he has a similar ish story but I just want to be clear wait wait wait that's similar in the hook to the genitalia

yeah not the second part I was going to say oh and also I think I might have shared this on the help I suck a dating podcast but when I moved to Los Angeles one of the first things I did was to get my potency checked and what I said was on the podcast the first time was that I wanted to you know I just wanted to see how I was doing down there just out of curiosity but the reality of it is I just wanted to know if like the stitches or you know the rusty hook that you'll just cut my penis open maybe like inhibited my ability to have children gave you a vasectomy I mean who knows right long story short it didn't like everything's fine down there in that sense but that's always it was always it was not going to send pictures out if anybody's like yeah sin pics no that's not funny I'm curious about the scar I can show you I won't but I could I got really excited really excited is it is it not noticeable no it's not and no one you would like of all the girlfriends I've ever had no one ever knew about it until I finally just started, like, talking about it a year ago, right? And, yeah, I think, like, talking about it has kind of, like,

release some of the power that it's had on me. The thing is, like, a lot of the kids from high school with, like, some of my best friends from high school still think that I probably only have one testicle. Let's be it clear. You have two. I have two testicles, and they both function as testicles should function. I guess I can share this story. Like, the reason, the first time I ever opened up about the scar on my penis is when Leslie

and I were dating. Leslie, of course, had a double mastectomy, and she has scars on her breast because of that. And I was like, look, you're not that different than me. I've got a scar on my genitals as well, and let me prove it to you. And so that's how I started. That was like the first time I told the story to someone. What was her response? She was like, why are you so freaked out about this? Like, your penis is perfectly normal. That's kind of weird to talk about my penis in the context of my ex-girlfriend. I'm really getting in depth in this one. But that was the first time I ever shared the story with anyone, right? And so then like, then I would like, kind of get drunk with some of my best friends and be like hey guys i've got a funny story to tell you

about my penis and obviously they're like yeah tell us this is gonna be great yeah and was i the first ever go i think i don't have one the one ups it uh it's on the same level though and i you were the first one to ever rebuttal with a story of your own which i really appreciate and i would i mean if you want to give us like uh i would love to yeah does that make you feel better yes please it's a great segment yeah we're gonna we're gonna we're gonna skip all of dean's childhood just for this segment but i i guess the point the point of that story was that that was something that I was centrally bullied for a lot as a kid, right?

The thought that I had to testify. Isn't it funny that, it's not funny? Isn't it odd that some of those stories like that that we maybe like suppress and hold deep and like laugh about now a little bit are the ones that have affected us the most as we've grown up? This story that I'm about to share did suck my confidence away.

Okay, so here it is. I'll tell it in a quick version, later on we'll record a longer version of it. I was, so freshman year of high school I got called to be the starting quarterback it's a big deal two injuries it wasn't because I was great it was two injuries I got to step up and had a great first game

it was awesome it was fun I thought like the future is in football sophomore year I'm supposed to start again obviously the senior class had graduated and so I have a shot to be the starter all of a sudden I start feeling like just a pain in my testicles like a soreness, a heat, like, just like it throbbed all the time. So I'd reach down there and I was feeling just in case there was something going on and I felt a clump, like a bump, a clump of something in my testicles.

And so I told my parents and they took me to the doctor. I went to the doctor and the doctor diagnosed me with something called a varicoceal. Veracil is something very common. One in four men get it. Not every, I think it's one in eight that need to get it removed. But mine was big enough that I need to get removed. What a verico seal is is it's an extra like vein. in your sack that heats that blood comes through obviously and it overheats your testicles

and so it would kill off your sperm so if you leave it for long enough actually your sperm will stop producing and you'll become sterile so you need to get it removed at some point soon well mine started to get so bad and so sore that I did it a couple months before football season thinking I'll get this done I'll get it cleared up and then I'll be good to go for football it's an easy surgery actually they just go in through your groin um arthroscopic they pull it out cut it up cauterize the ends. You don't even hardly know it happened. And within two days, you're back going. So all that's going really well for me. I go in for surgery. I come back home. I remember this. I'm laying on my bed in my house. And all of a sudden, my nuts just start hurting so

bad after surgery. And at the time, I thought maybe it was because I just had surgery on my testicles. That would make sense, right? But they start hurting so bad. And they start hurting so bad. And they start burning and I call my dad in it's been about 24 hours since surgery and I said dad I need you to look at these it hurts so bad and so I lifted up my my sheets or whatever and he looked and he's like we need to get you the doctor right now my ball had swollen up to the size of like a grapefruit oh my gosh and we didn't know why so my my I had a massive testicle and I go into the doctor and this is what the doctor does literally what happened was the the vein that they're supposed to cauterize together, did not cotterize completely. And so blood was just pumping

directly every time my heart would pump into my testicle. And so they had to take a needle, a drainage needle, and shove it right into my ball sack without numbing me because it was getting so big, so fast, and start draining the blood and the liquid off of my ball sack, like, as I'm wide awake. And non-numbed. Non-numbed. Well, my swelling doesn't go down for a few days. And so I go back to high school and because of the damage it's been done down there and it was a lot of damage you know they had to go back in recotterized they had just stuck a needle in my testicles like there's a lot of like trauma to a place it's like really sensitive it stayed swollen and I had to go back to high school and I had to sit on ice in every class I couldn't miss more class and so I had to

sit on ice so I had to carry an ice bag around and sit on it where you can't hide that in class and so people would ask what's happened what happened well it got to the point where I was just like screw it. I'm just going to start showing like people my testicle. So I showed the football team like why I wasn't practicing. And I showed the basketball team like why I wasn't going to the open gyms. Like here, check out my my testicles. And they did. And I'm not kidding. Like it's still to this day was something that was brought up every time. I was like I had a deformed testicle that was the size of a grapefruit for probably two weeks of my life in class. So that's why Dean and I related on that.

that point that story so at that point dean and i are sitting around having drinks at ashley jared's wedding going i knew i liked you and i knew there's a reason why but i got made fun of it for it too and it really did affect me and like i think a little bit of my confidence i don't know if you felt this way but the fact that every underlying story about i felt like everybody was talking about behind my back oh yeah absolutely i thought that i was going to be a virgin for my entire life i was like i'm no one's ever going to want to sleep with me well okay that's we'll talk about later that It hasn't been the case. And what's funny is I remember when I hooked up with my girlfriend for the first time,

she spent a lot of extra time down there, like, examining, like, feeling around, making sure everything felt normal because she had obviously heard the stories. And she was like, well, I'm going to spend a little bit time, you know, figuring it out. But I was like, I would wake up as like a 13, I lost my virginity when I was 16, I think. I'd wake up almost every single day before that happened. I was like, I'm going to be a virgin forever. No one's going to want to like have sex with me. This is the worst thing in the world.

how could this happen to me of all people like this sucks and then obviously i lost it and then i like began to realize like there's nothing wrong with me yeah i just like i created this thing in my head where like i don't know i let this have some power over me in a weird way there's there's about four or five health stories uh from my high school days middle school and high school days that have like dramatically affected my life we'll talk about them at some other point four or five oh there's some wild ones man and we'll talk about it some other point but not today but that that is my best story with um yeah with my with our nuts um hey before dean i really want to dive into your childhood and some of the parts that mean the most but before we do let's take one

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Frambridge.com promo code almost famous. A lot of scrotum talk today on the podcast. That's actually a fantastic segment because it's so real, it's so true, and it really did, whew, it really did affect it. I just, I mean, honestly,

ever since you told me this story, I can't get over the idea that there's a hook that just dolly ripped apart your undercarriage. Well, yeah. Dean, with that, we're going to transition. there's no easy way to do this um what are your happiest moments growing up my happiest moments growing up that's a great question actually i don't know though um i my childhood started off

kind of weird where we like lived in an RV park up until i was about four or five years old and i have like some distinct memories from the RV that were pretty wholesome like we i remember sitting on top of our our well it was a bus right so my dad like gutted a school bus and put a much of beds into it and we lived in that for like four years. I just simply remember like one time we sat on top of this bus and like watch some demolition Derby while we were eating Oreos at night in some like town in Oklahoma or something weird like that. Like that was a good memory.

As a kid like older wise, I don't, I don't know. It was basically, it was a normal childhood except aside from obviously all those other things. You know what I mean? Like I remember we had an Easter and steamboat where like my mom had candy around the apartment that we were staying in like the hotel room or something like that. I remember, like, spending a lot of time with my brothers and sister, like, looking for him, like, having fun and the snow was falling outside, and we're, like, this cool, exciting new place. It's just, like, small things like that. But I don't remember anything, like, specific.

That's, like, that was, like, the happiest moment of my life, you know? Do you think your family would look back on Dean as a kid and say, we knew this is who he was going to become? What have I become, I guess, is the question. Well, you're living in a van. Yeah. You have a lot of wonderlust. You're an artist. You do incredible videos.

Oh, man, thanks. Um, and you've, you can be kind of this like artist, wonderlust figure and also, I don't, I don't, I can't say it any other better way. Like, do really well in reality television. Yeah, in some weird way. Yeah. What's funny is the first time I went on the show, my best friend was like, dude, you're going to suck on that show. Like, you're way too normal for it. And I guess the more I think about it than where I'm like, I will hope I'm not normal. You know what I mean? Um, and what's funny about the living in a van thing is I'm actually in the majority in my family for living in a van. My brother lives in his truck. My father. lives in an RV. My sister and other brother both live in like home, like an apartment. So three out of five of us live in a car, essentially. So I'm not wholly unique in my family specifically. I don't think that they would look at me and think that at all. But like, I don't know. What interesting story about my old. Both my brothers are older, but the second brother, right? None of us in our family are like really good at communicating our feelings,

especially as it comes to like being brothers with each other, like how much we mean to each other. just a weird thing for brothers to do on top of that we're just weird people to begin with and i remember my brother's girlfriend and i were like we were all going out me my brother his girlfriend to my other brother and both my brothers went upstairs because they forgot something so it was just like me and my brother's girlfriend were like waiting for them downstairs i remember she said something to me she was like ross uh the other day told me how special you are and he was like he that he that dean possesses all of my good qualities and none of my bad qualities and I was like wow I would never expect Ross to say that like he would never say that to me just me and him talking you know what I mean so it was like a cool third party way to like find out that I don't know my brother's thought highly of me which I never really thought I would never think they thought lowly of me you know what I mean but like it was just like it's an interesting thing to hear that I really appreciated but no I mean I don't think anyone would ever expect or have suspected this I was always kind of this weird black sheep where like I was the only member of my family to have like an office job as a recruiter like I said at an office or at a

desk for 40 to 50 hours a week and all my other brothers are like or siblings are like you know my sister's a hairstylist my brother's a waiter my other brother's a carpenter my father's a carpenter so it's like I don't know why I felt like this need to kind of have like a more of a normal life at first obviously reality TV kind of derailed that normalcy a little bit but yeah I don't know if it if childhood wasn't full of like the happiest memories and what were some of the hardest uh childhood was not full of that Well, obviously, the story of my balls is not the best story. You had to bring it back out.

When I was 10, my best friend got hit by a truck. That was, like, the first experience of trauma that I was kind of had to deal with. He was my best friend. His name was Hunter, Holly Scott. He and I shared a birthday, April 17th, 1991. And, you know, when you're that age, like, that's, like, a big deal. It's, like, enough of a reason to, like, become best friends with someone. And we were neighbors.

We lived pretty close to each other, so we spent a lot of time together. but yeah we were best friends and then one summer we were both like riding our bicycles to the market and we had picked up like some drinks and some snacks and we were riding back and as i was riding we were writing back he was like maybe 10 feet in front of me and he lost his balance and he fell over into the street and as he fell over into the street a truck came and ran him over he ran his head over it was actually pretty pretty uh pretty graphic uh so that was my first first brush in with trauma right when i was 10 years old and i actually remember funny enough to to kind of bring this back to what we were talking about earlier as i was sitting there as a 10 year old on the side of the

the road like my best friend's brains were basically spilled out into the street at this point they had thrown tarp over it um they were like trying to contact both of our parents but i remember i was sitting there like like the there's like a crowd starting to gather from like the cul-de-sac because it was like you know pretty close-knit community and they all like come around me and they're like are you okay are you okay and i remember crying and i remember the only reason that i was crying was because i felt like i was expected to be crying like i felt like people thought they were like dean should be crying right now so i was like i'm going to cry like i'm going to make it like but And then I remember thinking to myself, I was like, there's nothing I can do about the situation.

So what's the point of crying? You know what I mean? But I was like performing, right? I was like, I was like, performative crying. I was like, I think I'm supposed to be sad here. So I'm going to cry. And I was sad, of course. But like I felt like I wasn't necessarily visually as upset until I was like, oh, shit, like I probably should be crying right now.

You know what I mean? How do you process that as a 10 year old? I don't think I ever really did, to be perfectly honest. I remember my parents were super like, obviously they were there. my mom was like super supportive she was like i'll do like whatever i need to do to like make this better for you um and then they were like we're going to set you up in therapy so i went to therapy a couple times but i like hated it um and so they i was like i asked them and i was like i can't do therapy anymore like pull me out of therapy i think i'd do like two sessions um and then just kind of like

buried it and forgot about it for a long time uh and like i still don't really think about it often like i you know i was 10 years old so my memory isn't like super strong from those times i remember he was my best friend and I remember like obviously the visual of it happening but what's funny is then that fast forward 10 well I guess 12 years when I was 22 my best friend uh overdosed he was found dead in a bathtub uh the day that we were supposed to drive to Connecticut together and as an adult like obviously I had maybe like matured a little bit grown process my emotions more that death uh hit me a lot harder than I think even like the death of my mother because I was just like older and and I just, I guess, felt things more deeply.

And so that one was pretty challenging. We had like a, like, a wake or whatever. We all, like, got together to, like, commemorate our friend Alex. And I remember I, like, gave, I, like, went up there to give a speech in front of, like, 30 of our friends. And I, like, broke down and started, like, crying, like, uncontrollably, which is pretty uncommon for me. Especially as it pertains that kind of trauma. Like, I remember at Hunter's funeral, I was, like, running back up and forth, like, giving speeches about some great, like, memories. that Hunter and I had together and I was like smiling and like laughing and having fun with

it because like I was remembering the good times right but then with Alex like I wasn't able to do that and I just kind of like broke down and like couldn't even get words out sort of thing and with my mom it was a little bit different like obviously like my family was super close with her but we didn't have like it wasn't like I was like giving speeches to my like not speeches but like talking to my friends about things it was kind of more of just like me processing everything internally um so like the 10 with hunter was hard but then the death at 15 for my mom was super hard but then the death at 22 for Alex was like probably the hardest at least on the surface like at least like emotionally obviously the death of my mom was probably the most influential

but i don't know death definitely has um a massive impact in all of our lives but especially yours um at three separate segments at three separate pivotal like years of your life yeah it's weird that it came at like very different times, right? I don't know. How has that affected you? I don't know. I don't know. I never think about it. You have to think about it.

Like remember when I said earlier, like, I think I struggle with empathy because I just like, I know that I've been through a lot of those bad things. And even when I was, like I said, when I was 10 years old, I was sitting there, I was like, why am I crying? There's no point for me to cry because I can't change anything. So like when I see something bad happen or when someone comes to me and they're like, hey, this happened. And I'm really sad.

I can be like, okay, well, I can like, help you through this and I want to help you through this. But in the back of my head the entire time, I'm thinking, like, just, like, get over it because, like, it's done with. And the only thing that you can now control is your reaction to it and, like, your state of mind and your well-being moving forward. So there's no point really in dwelling on those negative things that happened in the past. And I go back and forth on to whether or not that's, like, a good thing or not. Like, to be able to, like, look back and cry. Like, sometimes I'll, like, look back on my mom's passing and, like, cry a little bit and just, like, feel good.

after like a nice cry you know what i mean um but i think like overall i don't try to let it affect me too much and like my advice for people as like calloused as it might sound is just to be like yeah just like think happier thoughts you know what i mean no i don't um because i i don't think that's always an option but it it is though that's kind of the point is like that's really the only option is to deal with things like yeah you can uh you can like dwell on it and like let it affect you negatively for the longest time but at the end of the day like that's just time wasted dealing with those negative thoughts unless you're actually growing from the thoughts right unless you're actually like sitting down and processing things and they being like okay like this sucked

um i'm going to remember like all the positive times and all the good memories and try to like make them proud through my life moving forward but if you're like having consistent negative thoughts about something like that then the only thing you really can do is be like okay well I'm just going to change that around and be positive about it you know what I mean I would imagine what I'm thinking through right now is though when you do leave and I get Hunter played a huge role in your life but you were 10 and like life at 10 is is a lot about having fun pretty simple yeah yeah it's pretty simple but as you lose your mother and then Alex there's huge pieces of your life that now are being taken it's not so simple and there there is a

there's a value that they held in your life that is now gone yeah how How do you replace those things? Do you replace them? I don't think that you replace them. I think that Malcolm Gladwell, obviously, is a great author. I remember, I can't remember which book it was that he wrote. I think it was tipping point, perhaps. But he said something along the lines of no child is aware of how unique their situation is. And because every child thinks that their childhood is exactly like everyone else's, you know what I mean? So, like, when I'm 10, I think like everyone else is going through the same stuff I'm going through in my situation isn't unique. When I'm 15, I think the same thing.

I think like my life is just my life. And it's not, like, wholly unique in any sort of way. But, yeah, you're right. I was obviously much more affected, practically speaking, by the death of my mom than I was by, obviously, Hunter or Alex. I kind of, like, turned the world upside down in a lot of ways. But, again, I was just, like, dealing with it. Like, you haven't really no choice but to just put it all aside and figure it out as you go, you know? Yeah, and I think, though, the, those moments, though, Dina, like, the one.

ones that always feel like they hit the hardest. They're the hardest to process, but they're the things that connect us the most. So there's a lot of people out there listening that have obviously related with you because of the deaths of friends or close family members. And I think

your story is one that they listen to and sit on. I would imagine anxiously going, how do you do it? Like how do you continue to move forward in the midst of great pain and great sorrow? And to those people that are saying that and looking at you as that figure to help them respond, what would you say?

Well, I just don't think you really have much of another option. It's like, if you're not moving forward, then you're standing still and moving backwards. And it's like, well, do you want to look back and be like, okay, well, I just waste it all that time. Feeling sorry for myself. Feeling sorry for the people around me. Feeling sorry for my situation. Or did I use that time to figure it out and kind of grow from it? And obviously it's easier said than done.

There were like some pretty dark times when I was like between 15 and 18. I like basically lived by myself like my dad kicked my brothers out of the house and then he was gone all the time either traveling for work or visiting his I think his mom was sick in New Jersey at the time and so I spent a lot of time alone and like a house made for six people right which is just a weird it's a weird eerie situation um but I don't know I never felt like a challenge you know what I mean because it just felt it was just what was and so I that's what I'm saying I struggle with empathy where it's like I can't really put myself in those shoes because I just felt I've always felt like whatever you're given is like the hand that you're supposed to be playing and because of that like you just kind of find a way to to make that hand a winning hand you know what I mean do you ever feel resentment then towards who myself life I mean if you're sitting there and you look around you go I've I mean I at 10 years old had to witness my best friend yeah get him the center road I've lost my mother at a young age and at 22 I lost my best

friend, I can move forward, but what I would feel, and this maybe is just me, is a resentment. I would still move forward. That can happen, but I would carry on this, this kind of, like, chip on my shoulder saying this isn't fair. I think the death of my mom really brought that side out of me, where I was like, this is bullshit, like, this doesn't make sense. This isn't fair. The testicle story was a big one, too.

I was like, this doesn't make sense. Like, why me? Why me of all people was I chosen? It's a funny story. like really did hurt like you oh yeah like emotionally i thought my life was like transformed in a negative way forever more so than it because i was young i didn't know any better um but with my mom too it's it's tough losing a mother or a parent uh especially obviously losing anyone is difficult but like a lot of my friends that i was like super super close with in high school like they all had

uh families that were like super tight and they were always super supportive they're like if you ever need anything like you can come to us and ask for it but that was i think that's kind of a reason why i kind of didn't really ever feel the need to share my story post college or anything like that like in adulthood was because uh no one really understands until they experience it and so my friends when i the people that was friends with in college i'm sorry in high school they all had like very uh well-off families everyone was wealthy everyone was happily married they didn't really deal with much adversity in their lives and so i i didn't feel comfortable sharing my story with those people because they didn't they didn't get it you know what i mean um and so i kind of just

swept it under the rug and and kind of kept quiet about it for a long time until obviously bachelorette when i shared it with however many people watched it bachelorette um but yeah and it wasn't just the story of the your mom that was brought out there is this massive storyline that i know you don't like but but your dad was also highlighted then because there's been this disconnect then that was at least portrayed during the show there yeah well what's funny about the my old dad situation is it's like i've never really put myself in his shoes i've never really considered what it was like to lose your wife at 50 years old he's never cooked a meal in his life for anyone like he's never had to take care of anyone he just made money

and like funded our family for my mom that take care of us right so it's not like he knew any better than to do what he did which was basically disconnect and and do what he thought was best And, like, he even, ask him now, he doesn't think he did anything wrong. And I think he really believes that he didn't do anything wrong. But from my perspective, he did everything wrong. But that doesn't make him, that doesn't make what he did wrong, you know. He was just dealing with it the only way that he really knew how. And that's only something that I've kind of come around on recently where it's like,

I can't really blame the guy for bailing out when I was 15 or whatever, because that was, like, his way of dealing with his traumatic loss, of his wife that he's been married to for the past 30 years. Sure. I always kind of considered, like, the loss of my mom to be like this week. weird, a shit thing, obviously, but like I always kind of wish that it brought our family closer together rather than like it was kind of actually like a bomb that like put us all further apart. And with my dad specifically, yeah, like he, him and I had this, this weird, uh, dynamic on the show.

And I remember being in high school and going to school every day and like I got in trouble a lot. I was like always, I was like the one obviously responsible for getting myself to school, which means I was late basically every single day, which means I was in detention and in suspension, et cetera, all the time. And I remember a couple of times the principal would like pull me aside and be like, what's the deal? Like, should we get your dad in here to like talk about this? And I remember always being like, no, I hate my father. I never want to be like him.

Don't even talk to him. Like I don't even want to be part of this conversation. And I was just like so vehemently like, my dad sucks. I hate him so much. I hate him so much. And eventually like the principal would be like, okay. Like I won't tell my, I won't tell your father. Eventually, obviously they tell my father.

And it just like kind of continued to drive a wedge between us. And there were like moments where we would like put things aside. bygones be bygones like my father drove me out to my university on uh to like you know what is it like visiting weekend where you go check out make sure you want to go to school there so like we like had salvage the relationship like weirdly a couple times but ultimately it ended up falling back apart i think i think it's just like the ungler curse where we can't really stay communicative with each other and we don't really stay in touch with people um and then through high school like or through i'm sorry through college we weren't ever really close and then uh we like when i moved

to L.A. I saw him for a couple days before I moved to Los Angeles. Two years later, I go on the show. And I hadn't really talked to him since seeing him on my way from Denver to L.A. I stopped by for like a day and I hung out with him. But then since then, like, it was two and half years between that and going on The Bachelorette. Hadn't talked to him, hadn't seen him or whatever. And I knew going into that hometown that he was going to act like everything was like hunky dory, everything was A. Okay. And I was like so deep in my own shit too where I was like, you know what? I'm just going to call him out for it right now on national television, which in hindsight, probably wasn't the best idea, but I was just like, I didn't like necessarily the facade

that was being put on that, like, we were like a loving family that we all, like, looked out for each other and that we all, like, were just super tight-knit because we weren't. And then the second I saw him, like, try to pretend that we were, I was like, you know what, I'm just going to, like, lean into this and be like, this is just isn't right. And so, yeah, that whole experience on the show, what's funny is, like, my dad loves the experience on the show, you know, like, he'll even be like, yeah, dude, you were a fucking bull to me on the show. but it was the best experience in my life.

Why? He's a narcissist. Just like me, just like my brother is, just like my sister. He loves the attention that the show gave him for however much time it gave it to him. Good or bad, like he just loved being in the spotlight, quote unquote, for that short amount of time. I would like to think that I don't reach that level of narcissism. I hope I don't. But yeah, he's got a funny mentality on it.

And like we've obviously like repaired our relationship to some extent. between then and now, like he helped me rebuild my van and build out the living quarters of it a little bit. I, like, see him maybe like one to twice, twice a year, two or three times a year now. And there's not really any love lost. Like, he's getting older. And I know that at some point he's going to die before I die, hopefully. Like, that's how it works. You obviously want your kids to outlive your parents. And I don't want to live with the regret of not having a better relationship with my father after it's no longer to be had like after I can't you know salvage anything so uh I go back and forth and like I try to make it work and you know obviously he lives his life

I live my life and whenever we get together it's like him kind of catching me up on all his things and him talking the whole time and it's great and we like to see each other but then it's just like a reminder like okay yeah I'll see again in six more months or two more months or however long it is it's just like you know obviously people kind of grow apart I guess would there been an option to bring it to bring the family together like because of the passing of mom was there ever a pivotal point where it did kind of break the family apart um well i think the just actual passing of it so my brothers and my father all butted heads constantly my dad was like an alcoholic for a long time he's since been sober for i think like 10 years or something like that

but for a long time he drank a lot and i think that like tensions were high because you know my brothers were like maybe like 18 to 23 or 24 living in the house and my dad was like you guys like need to like move out like get your own place figure out get your life together so sort of thing. And that like kind of created some tenacity between the three of them, more so one of my brothers and the other. But that was kind of a challenging thing too because it's like one of my brothers was like my best friend. And like he, you know, I like respected him a lot. I liked him a lot. And to see him and my father getting such heated arguments with each other, I was like, well, I love my brother and he's like, he's my role model essentially. And if he's

fighting my dad, then I should probably fight my dad too. And like, you know, it's just kind of one of those things where it was like a slippery slope or like a snowball effect where things just kind it got progressively worse for no one and no one was at fault for any of it you know what i mean they're just one of those weird things i hear all this and one of the you know we mentioned at the beginning of the podcast one of the criticisms that you um that you get the most that you're not unfamiliar with is dean's got to grow up yeah you know what's really interesting after i hear all this is it made sense to me is you you grew up at a really young age and i wonder if you matt there's no this is going to be a weak statement

but you mastered adulthood at such a young age that now you can play around with it a little bit. Perhaps. I like to think that I have never going to grow up, though, honestly. I guess I see your point. Like I had to grow up, support myself, whatever, from 15 until now. I had to grow up maybe a little earlier. But also it's like, I don't ever really want to lose

like that childlike spark that I think that we all kind of look back and be like, dang, I wish I was like that. But you built in the, you built in the necessities to at least making your life, function at such a young age that now you know them so clearly that you like that you may that you you fight hard to hold on to that child like spark because a lot of your childhood was taken from you i can understand that that makes sense i will say one of the i'm not a psychologist i'm not like diagnosing that i'm just saying i'm hearing this i'm saying at 10 years old if i had to

put myself in a position of seeing my friend get hit on the side of road and then lose my mom a few years later and then at 22 kind of like i would say my 20 early 20s were like late teens early 20s were the years that like literally had if i would have experienced pain during that time like real pain i don't think i would have processed it because it felt like at years almost wasted of just bliss in college and euphoria like if those things happen to me like they happen to you and they dramatically changed your course leading up to who we know today how old are you know you now 28 28 you're not too far removed from those years pretty old I'm 30 so I will say one of the one of the most challenging things well not the most challenging

things but like I said I grew up with a lot of kids who had like well-to-do families basically like security blankets security nets right I guess I always kind of looked around at them too and resented them in a sense where I was like look if you fail miserably at whatever you want to do like reach for the stars you fail you have them to lean on or like they'll support you they'll put you up they'll like bring you back into their home and take care of you if i do that i'm like going to be living on the streets because i don't have anywhere to go other than wherever i can put myself you know what i mean and so for the longest time i was always like i don't have i don't have a safety net i don't have anything to do unless i do it now and figure

it out and so i think that's maybe kind of what you're getting at where i was like i was everything was so on me for the longest time where now i guess i have the ability to be like okay I can kind of do whatever I want and so I'm going to do that you know I completely get it and I've never thought about that with you Dean until now I've never have um it's a good psychoanalysis uh it just it's the part of this podcast that I enjoy the most because getting down and hearing your story um I don't know if it allows things to make sense because afterwards we're going to walk out of here and we're going to still struggle and I'm going to get upset with you because you do lack in your communication now and then

I don't hear from you for days which I still don't know why and I'm not going to just blame it on the unclear curse but that's the thing I have no excuses for that type of stuff now so I would never be like oh I'm this way because of I don't know genetics or because of the traumatic experience that I had as kid I have no excuse

to not be communicative with you other than you you don't like me Ben but all of it makes sense which is why this podcast means so much to me I'm glad I'm doing it with you Dean I want to get into what led you to be on The Bachelorette. But before we do, we're going to take a break.

Hi, my name is Enya Emanzor. And I'm Drew Phillips. And we run a podcast called Emergency Intercom. If you're a crime junkie and you love crimes, we're not the podcast for you. But if you have unmedicated ADHD... Oh my God, perfect. And want to hear people with mental illness, Psychobabble.

Yes, yes Then Emergency Intercom is the podcast for you Open your free IHeartRadio app Search Emergency Intercom And listen now The Super Secret Bestie Club podcast Season 4 is here And we're locked in

That means more juicy cheesement Terrible love advice Evil spells to cast on your ex No, no, no, no, we're not doing that this season Oh, well this season we're leveling up Each episode will feature a special Bestie and you're not gonna want to miss it Get in here!

Today we have a very special guest with us. Our new Super Secret Bestie is The Deva of the People. The Deva of the People. I'm just like text your ex. My theory is that if you need to figure out that the stove is hot, go and touch it. Go and figure it out for yourself. Okay. That's us.

That's us. My name is Curley. And I'm Maya. In each episode, we'll talk about love, friendship, heartbreaks, men, and of course, our favorite secrets. Listen to the Super Secret Bestie Club As a part of the Marco Tura Podcast Network Available on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

Hi, I'm Janica Lopez, and in the new season of the Overcover podcast, I'm taking you on an exciting journey of self-reflection. Am I ready to enter this new part of my life? Like, am I ready to be in a relationship? Am I ready to have kids and to really just devote myself and my time? I wanted to be successful on my own, not just because of who my mom is.

Like, I felt like I needed to be better or work twice as hard as she did. Join me for conversations about healing and growth. Life is freaking hard. And growth doesn't happen in comfort. It happens in motion, even when you're hurting. All from one of my favorite spaces, The Kitchen. Honestly, these are going to come out so freaking amazing. Be a part of my new chapter and listen to the new season of the Overcumper podcast

as part of the MyCultura podcast network on the IHart, Art Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. My name is Ed. Everyone say, hello, Ed. From a very rural background myself, my dad is a farmer, and my mom is a cousin, so, like, it's not, like... What do you get when a true crime producer walks into a comedy club? I know it sounds like the start of a bad joke, but that really was my reality nine years ago. I just normally do straight stand-up, but this is a bit different. On stage stood a comedian. with a story that no one expected to hear.

Well, 22nd of July 2015, a 23-year-old man had killed his family. And then he came to my house. So what do you get when a true crime producer walks into a comedy club? A new podcast called Wisecrack, where stand-up comedy and murder takes center stage. Available now. Listen to Wisecrack on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

I'm Dr. Joy Harden Bradford. And in session 421 of Therapy for Black Girls, I sit down with Dr. Othia and Billy Shaka to explore how our hair connects to our identity, mental health, and the ways we heal. Because I think hair is a complex language system, right, in terms of it can tell how old you are, your marital status, where you're from, you're a spiritual belief. But I think with social media, there's like a hyper fixation and observation of our hair, right? That this is sometimes the first thing someone sees when we make a post or a reel. It's how our hair is styled. We talk about the important role hairstylists play in our community, the pressure to always look put together,

and how breaking up with perfection can actually free us. Plus, if you're someone who gets anxious about flying, don't miss Session 418 with Dr. Angela Neil Barnett, where we dive into managing flight anxiety. Listen to therapy for black girls on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Before we come back with Dean, I'm going to take a second.

At the end of the podcast, you're going to hear a segment with one of my buddies Bob Dalton talking about sackcloth and ashes, a blanket company giving blankets to people without homes all across the U.S. their partnership with my company, Generous. So make sure you tune in and wait to the end of the podcast, conversation with myself and Bob Dalton. But until that conversation,

I am here with Dean Ungler, a fan favorite from The Bachelorette, Bachelor in Paradise, two times over, and Bachelor Winner Games. We've caught up with Dean so far, but now we're getting into this stuff that listeners you're familiar with.

Dean, how do you end up on the show? but how'd you end up on the show I why do you turn this on me I was signed up through a friend and then I just went through it with myself and I kept doing the process after they sent in my first like application I just kept

I did a video and I did all that stuff I'm the normal way to do it I guess we can go back to your season of The Bachelor okay so we were watching your season well we weren't watching I never really watched a show before going on it did you um off and on yeah my mom

And I spent time when I would be home. We loved watching it together. But when I was away, like I wouldn't. It was just like my thing with her. Right, which is great. That's a nice little tradition to have. So one of my best friends loved the show. It was always kind of this thing that we ragged on him for.

He would watch it by himself, you know? Yeah. But he doesn't like doing things alone. So sometimes he would like rope and coax his friends into watching it with him. I remember one time he made me watch Caitlin Bristow's season. Funny enough, I think it was with her one-on-one with Nick. I hadn't watched it again. He was the one that I moved to Los Angeles with.

So your season was on, and I remember he made me watch a couple episodes of your season with you, and I was like, wow, man, that Kayla Quinn girl, there's something about her that I just, like, really adore and admire. I was surprised. And so I was working one day at downtown Los Angeles, and my friends were like, dude, there's a casting call in, like, Rancho Cucamonga, like an hour and a half away. And I didn't have a car at the time.

And I was like, I think Kayla was like just maybe announced as The Bachelorette. And I was like, I got to go. Like, she's my girl. I want to figure this out. Ended up obviously not going. And then Jojo got announced the next day anyway. So it was no big deal. Put that to bed for like a year or something like that.

And then a year later, like I'm at work again. And that same friend of mine calls me. And he goes, Dean, I'm going to do something. And I want you to do, I want you to follow through with it no matter what it is. And what that something was was, was he got. me on a phone call with Amy, the producer of this podcast, who we adore so much, who has a great relationship with the show's executive producer. And so Amy and I talked on the phone for like an hour and a half. And she was like, I love your story. I love everything about this. Like, let's

figure this out. Let's try and get you on. And then so the next day I received a call from another executive producer talked to her for like an hour and a half. And she goes, oh my gosh, like this, you're fantastic. Let's get you streamlined. This is like in February. The show films in March. and I fortunately lived local in Los Angeles and so they were like come into the office meet some of the producers we'll give you like the psych test we'll give you the physical

we'll give you the background check but we need to like do it as quickly as possible because the show starts filming in like a couple weeks and I was at a point in my life where I was single my girlfriend and I had broken up a few months prior we were still on like friendly terms but obviously it wasn't really going to amount to anything and so I was like you know what

why not like I don't really think I'm going to go on the show I don't I think they'll find a way to not want me on the show so I did everything the thing started like progressing and they were like every time you get to another step in the process you're like is this real I don't really know everything happened so fast and so eventually they were like yeah we like we want you March 13th is your first day filming and this is like March 5th when they told me this or something like that and I go like are you sure like me is this really like the the real bachelorette so it's all like it is very confusing yeah especially for someone that's like not like i don't watch the show very often but i knew about it i watched like a couple

episodes of jojo season the day before going on to like kind of get an understanding for it a little bit more but i just like kind of did everything that they told me to do and every time i went in and talked to them they're like yeah you're great we think you're fantastic we would love to have you on and every time i was like really are you sure like me um and then i went on and yeah i think i pretty pretty public knowledge i packed to be on the show for like i expected to be gone night one back like a small duffel bag backpack uh two suits and i just like i thought that i was going to go home i didn't tell any my friends until like three of my best friends obviously the one that nominated me uh one of my roommates and then like the day before i left we were having like a barbecue and i like told my guy

friends i was like yeah i'm going on the bachelorette tomorrow and no one else knew and then funny enough actually the first day that I was on The Bachelorette was the live show with Rachel and so like everyone knew right away that I was on the show but I didn't have my phone for the next two and a half months so I couldn't really talk to anyone about it but yeah that's how it happened my friend just nominated me through Amy funny enough and it turned into be a much bigger thing than I ever expected it to be Amy Shigman who he's talking about who helped him also start his new career in podcasting with the help I suck at dating podcast so go to your um wherever you listen to iHeart podcast Spotify iHeart.com

podcast iTunes I don't know and I mean that podcast Help I Suck at Dating is fitting because of your time on The Bachelorette and Bachelor in Paradise Your time on the Bachelorette I would say we talked a lot about kind of the pivotal moments of it

Your time with Rachel did end after hometowns Any residual consequences good or bad from that season of the Bachelet do you still have a relationship with Rachel well first and foremost, I was shocked I got sent home when I did. I thought I was like, because I saw a couple of

my good friends at my hometown. They didn't air any of it, unfortunately, but I got to hang out with them after like the night portion of my family a little bit. I was just like an emotional time. So like they like let me like have a couple drinks with my friends, like decompress and unwind a little bit. And I was like talking to them. I was like, you guys, I think she's going to choose me. Like I'm pretty sure I'm the one. And they're like, wow, man, that's crazy. And like three days later, I text to them. I was like, yeah, because I'm not the one. Were you ready to get engaged, Rachel? Um, I think at the time I will, I don't know, in hindsight, it's easy to say no that I wasn't ready to get engaged, but it's hard to put myself back in that situation and say one way or the other, whether I was or not. Obviously, Rachel made the right choice. She's married to the love of your life. Brian. So it's weird to even like put myself back in that situation at all. Um, but do I have a relationship with Rachel now? Not really. Like she obviously leads her life and I live my life. Um, she, yeah, I don't know. What was the next question? That was it. Do you still have any like,

Any residual things for The Bachelorette. I mean, I feel like your time of the Bachelorette ended, and it's really what we know you best through your time on Bachelor in Paradise in Bachelored Games. More well defined and known for my time in Bachelor and Paradise. And I will say my time on Bachelorette, I mean, it went overarchingly incredibly well. Like I was with Peter Krauss, you know, fan favorite. There were really no negative things that were said about me, which was like, in all honestly, a bad first impression. Like it sucks that the first taste of like publicity that I have ever experienced.

in my life was so overwhelmingly positive because then that set me up to be so crushed by any negative publicity that I were to receive later on, which I obviously inevitably did. So my tagline was the perfect bin. You literally can't set yourself up for it. I get it. Any more failure

than that. The perfect van. Well, you are a perfect tense. I guess that makes sense. I wonder what mine would have been, you think? Because I didn't live in a van at the time. I was like a normal guy at the time. I mean, you have, yeah, you still to this day, you have an aura and a uniqueness about you that I think would have added some great taglines and even then people like you you have the movie star thing going for you I don't know what that means but I appreciate it I think it's a huge compliment yeah I mean at least minute has it so like they talked to me about Bachelor for for a hot minute actually would would you've done it yes I said I would I absolutely would never to not like refuse that opportunity I think I talked to you actually about it a little bit because we were talking about like money and stuff like that and I just wanted to make sure I was getting a fair value for whatever the role entailed um And when I met with the, I never met with like Fleiss or any of them,

but I met with like a couple of the executives for like NZK, the production team that makes The Bachelor. And I obviously met with the executive producers of the show like Alon and Bennett and all that kind of stuff. I'm pretty sure this is all fair to share. I don't really see why it wouldn't be. But we were talking and this is a post Bachelor in Paradise filming pre-airing. So they knew that things weren't going to look good for me. But they, I think they sensed that like Peter, something wasn't going to happen with him,

which obviously you inevitably fell through. I don't know exactly why, but they were talking to me about it, and they were like, yeah, how do you feel about this? And I was like, well, I don't know if I believe in the institution of marriage as much as you need me to. I definitely don't believe in the idea of a diamond engagement ring. I don't want my family to be a part of it at all because I saw how you guys made a big ordeal.

And I know that they would like, Dean and Dean's father meet again sort of thing. Like that would have been a central storyline. I didn't want that. And I said all these things, like to the executive producers and, like, the studio heads. And they were like, well, that's not really what we want to hear. Yeah. This isn't going to work. Yeah.

You don't like what the concept's about. You're not into the symbolic ring that makes the show. Yeah. And you don't want to be part of the main storyline that we want you. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, cool. But they still like, it's funny because they have a good way of making you feel like you're still like the guy.

You know what I mean? Like they still, I still, after leaving every meeting, I was still like, wow, that went really well. yeah you don't doubt it they they have mastered the art of human yeah they know how to direct communicate and get people to where they want and honestly like i i didn't want to be the bachelor but i would never have said no to the opportunity no you can't and i mean you know today the bachelor holds very little role in my life i i mean i still get asked about it every day and i still do a podcast that is about the like so from the outside looking in it holds holds a tremendous role in my life.

For my day-to-day life, it holds very little, right? I have a girlfriend that is not at all associated with it. She doesn't even know a lot about the show. I live in Denver with nobody that's from The Bachelor around me. I haven't gone to a Bachelor event in years. Like, I'm very disconnected at this point. But I don't regret a second of it because of the people I've met working on the show and outside of the show.

And if I feel like, and for you too, and tell me if I'm wrong, it's helped us live out our biggest passions. Absolutely. I'm incredibly grateful for the time that I had on the show and the things that it's allowed me to be able to do. I remember being a kid when I was in middle school thinking things like, man, one day I just really want to skydive. Or like I want to scuba. I want to learn how to fly. I want to travel to Egypt. Like all these things that I've always wanted to do since a super young age, but I never had the ability to because I was making $40,000 a year working.

50 hours a week living in Los Angeles spending $2,000 a month on rent. It's just like there was no way to save money and the bachelor in some weird like in a way that I initially never expected it to gave me like the time to do things. I got to quit my job. The financial freedom to do go put the places I wanted to go and like the publicity or notoriety to I don't want to say like be given things but like to be to have doors open for you to go to go places that you never really would have expected to be able to go. You know what I mean? I want to take a second here and pause because I'm I'm sensing when we get to this point in the podcast um everything leading up to this this conversation about the bachelor feels so good and real and then

the bachelor hits and almost like I feel like it's it's a little bit weak it's a little bit more shallow than what I'd want to do with you but I think there is this and what we're talking about here and like we're saying is the bachelor let's legitimize it a little bit the bachelor has like played a huge role in your life, like it or not, and it's also allowed you to do and be a fuller version of yourself than you ever dreamed of.

Yes. So it is important for us to talk about The Bachelor because these things have helped define you for now. How many years? How long has it been since you've been on the show? Two and a half, I think.

Two and a half years of your life in your mid-20s, the Bachelor has been a part of it. Leading up to this, after Rachel sees on a Bachelor, we found you in Bachelor in Paradise. Bachelor in Paradise This time in Bachelor in Paradise helped lead

to you now having the help I suck a dating podcast And I want to know why Dean your time on Bachelor in Paradise was not Great No The first time around Right

The first time around was hard There was a lot of things That happened during that That season That I think affected People's image of you And I don't believe It's at all why they want you

on this in-depth episode but i want to i think people want to know why and there's a thousand questions i could throw at you like why did you do it the way you did and i don't think that would that would be fair i want to know what was it about that season and bachelor in paradise that you look back on and that you either regret or that you're proud of or why did it go so wrong um yeah i guess we can kind of dive into that a little bit so when you're on the bachelorette obviously you're not working you're not getting paid but you still have your bills to pay back home and like I said earlier I was making $40K a year living in Los Angeles a lot of expenses not a lot of income I was flat broke by the time I got off Bachelorette I think I had like $140 in my bank account and all of my bank I had a checking in a savings account $140 to my name basically didn't own a car didn't own anything it's just a weird spot to be in like you're basically starting at zero and like I said earlier like I don't have a safety net or anything like that so it's like if I hit zero in my bank account I'm I I am basically on the streets, right?

I'm sure I could, like, find a friend to bring me into their house to let me, like, couch surf for a little bit, but I don't want to do that. No one wants to do that. And so I was off the show in, let's see, end of May and Paradise, or no, I'm sorry, beginning of May. Paradise began filming, end of May, beginning of June. I don't know about those days. It's something like that.

It's off the show for a month, three to four weeks between Bachelorette filming and Bachelor and Paradise filming. And I had to make a decision Go back to work for three weeks And then leave again To potentially go to Bachelor in Paradise Or to I guess I don't really know what the decision was between

But I had to borrow money for my brother I borrowed a couple hundred dollars To tied me over But the decision to go to paradise And this might sound messed up It was entirely financial They were like we're going to offer you This much money

To come onto a TV show Where we're going to feed you Give you drinks and a place to sleep for however long you're here. And I was like, if I'm on that show for three days, I have more money in my bank account than I've ever had in my entire life, absolutely signed me up.

And I remember talking to my friends before I left. I was like, yeah, like, I might make $2,000 on this show. And they go, you're going to have $2,000 in your bank account. That's crazy. I know, that's insane. So the motive to go on Bachelor in Paradise, and again, it might sound messed up was entirely financial because I needed to find a way to, like, obviously,

support myself thereafter. And this was before Bachelor had even aired, before I had even ever known that selling things on Instagram was a thing. And I had entirely processed my relationship with Rachel. There was no hindrance going into Bachelor and Paradise. Nothing I was holding on to from that first show, Bachelorette, right? I just didn't know what was going to happen.

Again, I thought I would go into Bachelor in Paradise, not kiss a single person, not have anyone interested in me, and then leave after a couple of days, exactly how I did it, going into Bachelorette. And I'd go into Paradise, hit it off with Christina. Christina's a beautiful girl. at the time the most beautiful girl I'd ever seen in my entire life you know I still haven't really had a taste of anything that kind of comes out to the fact so I was like head over heels for this girl solely just because she was so pretty and we both were

able to like bond over our traumatic past and like these these challenging things that we had to go through as children and then the shutdown happened and instead of flying from Mexico to Los Angeles where I lived at the time I decided to fly Los Angeles to Kentucky where Christina lived and I was just like, yeah, I like, I liked this girl. Let's see. I had known her for three or four days at the time. Let's see if we can like hang out and see if anything goes anywhere. So we fly back to Kentucky, spend a couple days there. Like I'm head over heels, like obsessed with this girl. I'm like calling my best friends. I was like the best girl, like the greatest girl in the world. And she is, she wasn't is great. She's a great person. Obviously

things fell apart later on. But I remember we then decided to drive to Chicago from Lexington to Chicago. It's like a six hour drive to meet up with a couple of our friends who lived in Chicago who we wanted like go out and party with so like we drove up there we met up with them partied a little bit things got a little tense between me and christina like we went out for the first time to like a club together and we started like it was like our first taste of like our incompatibility whatever um and so i left that we left that together she had to drive back to lexington but i flew to denver to meet up with my friend to drive back to l i kind of a long story weird story but even to get from chicago to denver i like had to call my friend iggy i was like hey can i

borrow 80 bucks to get this flight from Chicago to Denver because that's how broke I was. And I think that drove a lot of insecurity in me as well because it's like it's hard to, it's hard to consider yourself like a viable partner when you don't really have enough money to support yourself. You know what I mean? So I think that that drove a lot of insecurity through me. And then on my way back from Denver to Los Angeles with my, with my buddy, I got the call saying that Bachelor in Paradise were to kick back up and we would like go back and like resume filming. in a couple days. And again, I was like, great.

Like, I was going to make like $2,000 or $3,000 and I can go back and make even more than that, which is fantastic. And, like, things with Christine and I were going fine, but there was this weird, like, after that night in Chicago, things didn't really go well. And, like, something just didn't sit right. And I just didn't really feel like a long-term thing. And, again, I think that it just stem from a lot of insecurities that I possessed at the time and, like, uncertainty of what the future held.

So we go back to Paradise and... I guess even before going to Paradise the first time, obviously I told the producers I was, like, super interested in me, Danielle. And they obviously knew that. They decided to send her in right after the shutdown stopped and the show resumed. And this is the girl that I like held so highly in my eyes. I was like super attracted to her. She seemed like a really interesting person. And then obviously we met on the show.

And I was like, wow, this beautiful girl is like super into me in the weirdest way. but she expressed interest in me, but she still, like, pulled away a lot. And I, like, for something, like, something about the chase, like, really, like, ignited to spark an interest in me. And then, meanwhile, Christina, obviously, and I had this history together because we had just spent a couple days in Kentucky together in Chicago. And we had known each other for, like, a week or a couple weeks at that point. And I don't know.

I think that I think that if I could go back and do it differently, I don't know if I would. It's hard to say, obviously, I would, I don't know. I don't think I was ready to be in. in a relationship at the time, I guess really is what it boils down to. I shouldn't have gone a Bachelor in Paradise because I didn't want to be in a relationship. Like the fact that it was a financial move for me rather than like I want to find someone move for me. I think really kind of with me a lot.

Sorry, that language. And that's kind of how I've always been in Los Angeles too. Like I would never go on dates with the intent to have a girlfriend. You know, like before I went on the TV show, I would never go on dates to like, they're like, oh, I wonder this girl's like a suitable partner for me. You know what I mean? So I've always kind of sucked at dating in that sense. and then to just go on the show

and have it like kind of be nationally televised it was a long time coming right like even throughout Bachelorette I would get texts from like exes or girls that I went on dates with not girls I went on dates with but like a girl I dated and then even like my ex-girlfriend

they were like wow you're getting a lot of like positive attention and like that's not really right because I just like in a real world setting I'm not that's like like focused on one person, you know what I mean? And that's, and is, do you believe that is the reason that you suck at dating is because

it's hard for you to focus on one person? It's hard for me to, especially then, it's, I'm getting better at this, but it's hard for me to, uh, I enjoy the good times, obviously, but it's hard for me to, like, want to, like, stick around through the bad times. Like, if you get an argument, I'm like, all right, well, if we're getting in arguments right now, like, there's no reason to stick around. I don't see the value in it. You know what I mean?

Uh, that's something I'm working on. And I think I've actually grown a lot from both the show, the, the podcast and just life in general. But at the time, I was like, any whiff of trouble I'm out, you know, like, there's no point in sticking around if something's difficult. What's the point of it? So, yeah, so it was basically me, like, Bachelor and Paradise was a more accurate representation of who I was at the time than Bachelorette for me.

You know what I mean? And so it was hard, like I said earlier, it was hard to go from that pedestal of, like, very well-liked contestant to then, like, very heavily criticized contestant. and rightfully so like I should have been criticized I think I could have handled things obviously much better but but yeah that was that was a challenging time and I think a lot of it too was like it was just everything was so new like I had never really had like an open bar to drink as much as I could possibly drink I never had this much attention from two women that were just like way too attractive to be talking to me you know what I mean and I think I was just

kind of like a weird in a weird way like a kid in a candy store so I just didn't really have it like the paradox of choice is just kind of overwhelming me. And yeah, that whole saga was like pretty taxing on me mentally. And obviously I'm the two girls as well. So even though all this stuff that's happening, you could watch and say, yeah, this is true. This is happening. This is just my own issues. It was still taxing on you mentally.

Oh, I was like super depressed throughout that whole process. And walks to my girlfriend. Hi, Kailen. There was a lot of like depression and anxiety. and stress that were going through my head wall that all that was airing but again it was like it wasn't like unjust like it's not that I shouldn't have been receiving that it was it was me because I was just acting wrongly I think a lot of it too is like like I said I was like I would get really drunk when I was on the show and I think in hindsight like if I could go back I would just

not drink because I'd make a lot more conscious decisions just better decisions um even now like I like when I was 25 and 26 I was like partying a lot a lot now at 28 I don't really go out ever You know? We went to a party the other day and I was like the first time we were really partied together Kailin and I and four or five months of dating

which I think is great but like watching that stuff back I was like I was like yes this is me who I am now in this moment of life or whatever in this snapshot of life and it's just like

it wasn't very obviously the best version of myself you know that's one thing that I don't think we've seen out of you through television is you upset and I think that's the one thing

that people probably like want to ring your neck sometimes and be like you aren't showing any emotion here there's been moments but it's quickly moved on from and I think to hear that this really hurt you or affected you or allowed you to look inward I think I don't know

there's a there's a it encourages me as a friend maybe but also it hurt because I know that it was just, I mean, that season of life is so confusing. Because there is a thousand things coming at you. You're dating people that you never imagine that you'd be dating in your life, right? I mean, you're batting way out of your league every time you talk to a woman in paradise or on the show. And then when it comes back and it feels like you're alone in it and everybody's criticizing you, it does get depressing.

And to know that that's how it's affected you opens my eyes to something I've never seen. yeah it's it's hard to kind of put myself back in that situation too because it was so it was challenging and I think that the people that I was surrounded by like the people from the show specifically I had I hadn't really had the chance to like get to know a lot of people from the show like super well like I've gotten to know you over the past two and a half years um I don't I mean I don't really know how to say this but like I like I continue to date Christina after Bachelor in Paradise, right? I did a deal for like a short amount of time after the paradise.

But then I called that off because I still had feelings for Christina. The reason I called Christina off the first time was because I like didn't like a lot of the things that I had heard from other people, but then I realized that I shouldn't be upset by those things. And so it was just like this weird bit of confusion that I was constantly in. But throughout Paradise airing, and I don't want to like put Christine on the spot or anything like this but like there was just no support from this person that I was like trying to invest into and like supposedly cared about me there was no support from her at any moment throughout those times

maybe like maybe glimpses and very privately but publicly she was like very critical of me because I don't know exactly why she wanted to play that role I suppose and that really took a big toll on me as well where I was like going through this really challenging time publicly and and openly, but then I wasn't really receiving much support on the back end or like the behind closed doors. And so that was like a super, I don't know, it was just a really weird time in my life where I like, I thought that things were supposed to be this way with this person. And like I was like trying to convince myself consistently that like what was happening was normal and it was okay and it was like easy to look past. But then like the longer, like the more time

we're on, I just began to realize that it wasn't normal and it wasn't like right. It wasn't Okay. Right. So it leads you to where you're at now. We had a stint on Bachelor Winner Games. You did walk away from Bachelor of Winner Games in a relationship with Leslie. Yeah. We publicly, actually, I was able to be with you in Honduras at one point.

That's ended. And it leads you up to this paradise, this season. Which was another shocking twist for Dean Ungler. But here's where I want to sit at for one second is, all these things that we've talked about leading up to this point have helped me understand you better as a friend and this season on paradise helped me understand you better because yes

from a viewer's perspective it was entertaining you going down there your relationship with Kalin you leaving the pain that that caused and going Dean you've done it again bring on the criticism bring on the critics the charming man

is deceitful because charm is deceitful but the man I knew was missing there and you came back and you're dating her today through the years and years that you've been on this show

and now your second time on Paradise and a time on winner game and your time on bachelor's right why did you want to come back for Kailen? Why did I want to come back for Kail? What did you learn through those things about the relationships that have failed?

Yeah. The people that you've lost contact I'm assuming at this point, Christina and Daniel are no longer a part of your life. No, they're not. Rachel, we've clarified,

as not really a part of your life. What is it about these relationships publicly that you've dated within that's allowed you to learn enough about who you're looking for, what you're looking for, and what you wanted to say, I'm going to take the risk. It's not going to be easy. I'm going to fly all the way back down to Mexico to pick a girl up off a beach

because I need to know something more about her. Yeah, that was an interesting time. to start kind of from the beginning of going to batch I think I got the call for this bachelor in paradise around February I was in Japan with my friend they called me and at the time I was like absolutely not I don't want to be in a relationship right now like I've got these plans to move into a van and focus on myself and like explore every avenue of interest that I could possibly have so like paradise not going to happen unless you like pay me more money than you've literally said I found out

the most money that anyone's ever made on the show and I requested one dollar more than that person made. I said, I'm not doing it for a dollar less than this number. You are a nurse. And eventually it came, like I got laughed at and hung up on basically. They called me back a couple of months, a month or two later. And they're like, okay, have you reconsidered? I go, yes, I'll do it for this much money. Still an exorbitant, ridiculous amount that is just never going to be approved. Hung up on me again. And then eventually I was like talking to my friends about it. And they're like, you know, like whatever. I think I was talking to Nick about it, actually. he goes, what do you have to lose?

Like, you're not, you're not, like, going to miss out on anything by going down to the beach. It's, it'll be another fun experience. It's like, you know yourself better, behave yourself better this time, too. I was like, yeah, I guess I'll give it a go. We'll see what happens. I had grown out, like, my facial, like, my goatee a lot randomly, and I, like, walked to carpet with wells, and I saw how disgusting my chin hair looked.

And so I was like, you know, I'm just going to shave off this little under part of my goatee, keep the mustache. And then I, like, got to Mexico, and I still had the, mustache for the more or less. And I was like, you know what? I'm just going to keep this mustache and walk down under the beach. And it's also the confidence that we talked about earlier. Yeah, I suppose.

Okay. Yeah. No, you're right. I don't know. It's hard to, it's easy to, like, paint a picture of what you expect to happen. But then when you get down there, it's like, obviously, never really going to happen how you expect it to. I thought I was going to be a gimmick.

You know, I thought I was going to walk down to the beach and be like, oh, here's Dean, back for the fourth time. Like, he's going to hang out for a couple days. maybe like kiss someone and then probably go home because he's not taking it seriously. So I walked down and see a lot of people I don't know. But I see like obviously Christina Blake and Derek, who I'm friends with for the most part, all of them. And then I was like, oh, it's like it's weird being back here. I made a conscious decision to stay sober the whole time too just because that's kind of been a downfall of mine through seasons past.

and it was I I if you're ever thinking about going on the show do not drink alcohol just like I have like a glass of wine maybe every once in a while but like the first couple seasons I was getting like blackout drunk yeah almost every episode they're almost every day I mean because I just like it there was nothing really else to do and I didn't really have much else to do other than that the this time I didn't drink and it was the best experience out of all of them by a landslide um and obviously Caitlin and I go on that first date and Caitlin and I have a bit of a history right like she DMs me me before she even went on The Bachelor. And so I like, I knew that there was interest there. I, like, randomly saw her do an interview before I even went down to paradise of her saying, like, oh, Dean's so attractive. And I was like, wow, this girl really likes me weirdly. Which in hindsight, like, it's, I don't know,

I really appreciate the fact that she, like, reached out to me before even going on The Bachelor. Because, like, I think that there's a lot of insecurity that's driven from the fact that, like, sometimes you feel like people are just using you for whatever reason. And, I don't know. Anyways, we go on a date. It goes well. Chemistry is there. I didn't expect to like this girl. I thought that we were just going to go on a date.

I was going to be like, yeah, whatever, this girl sucks. Turns out, like, I actually do really like her, and time kind of starts to continue to go on. And I start liking her, but I was, like, so convinced in my self that I was not going to leave that beach in a relationship. And the producers all knew that, too. And Kailen even knew that, too. I told her every single day. I was like, look, I'm going to break up with you on the last day of the Bachelor in Paradise. Like, just understand that.

And she, I think she, like, said that she understood it. it, but I think she kind of thought that I was, like, just joking around. Obviously, I wasn't. Eventually, one night, the producers were like, look, man, like, you're not taking this seriously. You know you're going to leave. Kalen's expressed interest in this other guy who's probably going to come down in the next couple days. Like, it would probably be smart of you to get out of here now so she can explore that relationship. And I was like, you know what, that makes a lot of sense. And I agree with it because I was, like, again, still convinced that I wasn't going to leave in a relationship. And so I leave. I fly back to San Diego where my van

was and I drive out to Horseshoe Bend and think about things. And when I landed actually in San Diego, I like, even, I texted my producer friend and I was like, listen, man, I'm like really sad. I think I'm going to made the wrong choice. And he was like, just think about it, like, blowing it for a little bit, process it. He sent me like a full on list of things like coping ideas of like go here think about this like do this eat this like things just like to kind of like put my mind at ease a and b like allow some introspection uh and he's like and i was like look man like i'm sad i think i made the wrong decision he goes well hey listen obviously for for ratings wise we would love to have you come back on the show it's up to you obviously at the

end of the day if you want to come back on or not take the night to sleep on it text me in the morning if you want to come back we'll book you a plane ticket and we'll fly you back down uh so i drive out to you bend, stay there for a couple hours, drive down to Phoenix, book a flight from Phoenix to Los Angeles, wake up the next day, and I was like, you know what, I miss hanging around this person that I spent the past eight days, basically attached at the hip. I don't know if you remember, Bachelor in its entirety, but this girl was like a piece of Velcro to me. She was stuck on me, like Elmer Fudd's strongest gripping glue. Yeah, she wouldn't leave you. She wouldn't leave me alone.

obsessed they say yes they absolutely do say that it's accurate it's accurate um it was hard to go from that eight days 24 hours a day to being around this person who i like actually genuinely enjoyed hang like it wasn't this weird like me convincing myself that i enjoyed spending time with this person it was like i actually genuinely like enjoyed it and there wasn't really like many lapses in conversation and when there was it felt natural it felt normal you know um and then i left and i i got to thinking I was like, well, I could wait until Bachelor in Paradise is done filming and, like, just text her and, like, ask her if she has the time to talk to me and, like, see if we can figure this out off camera. Like, there's less risk that way because I'm not putting myself out there so publicly again. But also, I knew that she really liked Connor and she was really interested in meeting him.

So I was like, well, like, the more I dwelt on it. And I actually called a couple of my friends. I was like, what should I do? None of them were supportive of me going back, by the way. but I knew that like if I had if I didn't go back she would have left the beach more more likely than not in a relationship with Connor and then I would be infringing upon that relationship at the time and it would eventually become public when they left the beach together when the show aired so I was like this girl's great she's gonna get

swooped up sooner rather than later if I don't go back now I'm probably never gonna have a chance to see if this would like actually work out so I fly back walk down to the beach and yeah I obviously things went well for me but uh that whole decision process it wasn't easy man like i talked to uh like alex and mike some of my best friends and then i came into the studio and recorded a podcast talked to jared and jared was actually one of the few that was like super supportive of the idea and i'm glad i did it it was uh yeah i don't know it wasn't easy even like walking back down onto that beach that second time i was like i almost like turned around a couple times i almost

like told the producers i was like look you know what actually on second thought this is a bad idea like let's let's not do this um but yeah and and you know kind of to bring everything full circle like i'm sick of i'm sick of like running away from all the problems in my life like all the bad things that happened to me all i do is like basically either run away from them uh physically or figuratively in so many ways and even like living in a van you could look at is like me literally physically running away from everything that's like important to me or has value in my life um so coming back down to the beach was kind of like a symbolic uh version of me saying like look I'm going to stop running away from these things.

I'm going to stop, like, running away from the good things in my life and figure out exactly what I want to do and where I'm going to go, and I want you to be part of that with me. And I'm grateful I did. I don't think that she's upset that she did either, but it wasn't easy. What was it about Kalin? There's something I've caught on here, and I want to tell you to tell me, I want you to tell me if I'm wrong.

every other person you've dated in the Bachelor franchise you've explained them very first thing has been a physical compliment Kaelin is obviously gorgeous it's not a secret to anybody but with Kailen your very first comment

to her about her is about who she is as a person do you feel that change in yourself what I've experienced in relationships is obviously I think the first thing that brings us to like want to talk to someone is a physical attraction

or like you see someone at a bar even you with Jess Just caught your eye on Instagram, right? So you decided to go out of your way to try and find it, get to know her deeper. I don't think that's a bad thing to be physically attracted to someone off the bat. I think my kind of like Achilles' heel in relationships is I kind of let that override my other, I guess, way of thinking. And what I've like slowly began to realize is like I'm, this is going to sound kind of silly and maybe a little melodramatic. I'm like probably on the spectrum of asexuality.

really I like don't I'm not like motivated by sex yeah but like the novelty of like meeting someone new and like seeing if you can like kiss them or hook up with them like that's exciting to me um but like if I date someone that just just solely beautiful and like the main reason I'm dating dating them is beauty yeah that fades incredibly quickly and what I've experienced with Caitlin is yes she's an incredibly beautiful person but it's a lot more than that and like I can actually enjoy it like I spend a lot of freaking time with this girl right and there are times where I'm I'm like, I need to get out of here, but it takes a lot longer for me to get to that point than it has for anyone in the past. We're like, I'm running from these relationships. Like, this is pre-Kailen. I'm running from these relationships, but I feel like I'm running from them because I got into them for the wrong reason, you know, like for some superficial, shallow reason. And what's nice about, obviously, my relationship with Kailen is it goes a little bit deeper

than that. And there's like a little bit more of, I guess, like, banter back and forth that we're able to have. And so, yes, she is a beautiful woman. And I'm very lucky to be able to call her my girlfriend. But it goes on, it goes a lot deeper than just that physical beauty, which I typically would place ahead or in the past had placed ahead of like a deeper connection, I suppose. Yeah, the thing with Kailen is for at least the time being, no pressure on you guys, is that when you do start to feel that like, I need to get out of here, which I get.

I feel that too, right? I love my girlfriend. But it happens. The interesting part is once you do leave and you can collect your thoughts, when I know it's right is there's an excitement to also go back. Yeah, it sucks. Yeah.

We just spent like nine days together in a row, like literally every waking moment together and every unwaking moment. Like we slept obviously in the same bed and everything. And I was like, it was yesterday. I was like, dude, I just got to get the hell away from you for a little bit. You know what I mean? So I drove out to Paris.

I wanted to skydive all day, but the winds weren't, didn't allow me to skydive. So I basically just like kind of hung around, like worked on things, like watch Netflix, a little bit, watch football. Then I was like, Like, I'm sorry language again, but like, I was like, I just kind of want to get back and hang out with her, you know what I mean? Which is like, it's a really shi thing to feel.

And it's a really weird feeling because I haven't felt it many times in my life. Yeah. It's like, it's like, dang it. Like, I think I found something. I got, gosh, I've been really good at running away and feeling like, oh, yeah, I can't do this. This is getting annoying. And then all of a sudden you found something that you're like, oh, I kind of like it. Yeah.

And that was the big thing, too, where it's like, oh, oh, it's like. A lot of the reason that I wanted to live in a van was because I wanted to experience not like individuality, but like seclude, just like complete freedom in every facet of the word, right? That's what the appeal of living in a van expressed, or I thought of it as, well, that was a weird way to say that sentence. And then so like the idea of a girlfriend kind of is counterintuitive

to that same idea. And so that's why I left the beach in the first place where I was like, look, like I have this very clear picture of what I want to be doing for the next 12 months of my life. And that's complete and utter freedom. I want to be able to drive where I want to drive to. I want to skydive where I want to skydive, ski where I want to skydive, ski, scuba where I want to scuba, et cetera, et cetera. And the idea of having a girlfriend is only going to hinder that idea.

And then so coming back, I think, like, a lot of my reservations about coming back. We're like, okay, well, like, I'm still not going to be able to do those things. But what's great about Kaelin is she's very, like, supportive and encouraging of that. And sometimes she's like, yeah, like, I'm going to come along with you on this trip wherever you want to go. But then she also, like, tomorrow I leave for Petrero Chico for two weeks. and she's like okay with me going away for two weeks whether she has the option to not be okay with or not maybe is a little bit for a debate but the fact is she like she's not making me hinder my explorative side of myself like I feel like some relationships kind of like kind of

reel you back in a little bit and she's just as keen to get out there and do the things that I want to do for the most part in terms of at least like going places she's obviously on board with a lot of that stuff but yeah it's it's a little different than past relationships. It's funny, actually, we were just talking the other day. And I can't remember exactly the context that it came up in. But we were talking about me. I shaved my legs for Halloween.

I dressed up as a beautiful girl for Halloween. Most beautiful girl I've ever seen. Second most beautiful girl I've ever seen. And we were talking about shaving my leg hair. And I was like, yeah, like this leg hair has been with me my entire life. It's been with me through good girlfriends and through bad girlfriends. And I was like, well, I'm just going to shave it off and start over new because I actually like my girlfriend for once. Not for once, but like, you know what I mean? Like, it's basically

like a fresh start of sorts in a weird leg hair centric way. Up to the belly button? I actually, I went about four inches down on my thigh. I don't know why I didn't go all the way up, but it just didn't feel right to go all the way up. But yeah, it was like this weird, I had never really audibly said, like, like, I like my girlfriend more than I've liked a girlfriend in a long time. You know what I mean? It was just like a weird, I don't know, like I didn't really, I don't think she registered it. I don't think I really registered it. But for me to like say that was just like a weird thing you know what i i 100% know what you mean yeah yeah to like say it and mean it and feel so the other day somebody asked me with jessica is my dad did actually he's like

what's going on there like where's this going to go i said dad the craziest part about it is like i have so much peace around this relationship like it's exciting for me to say things like i like my girlfriend yeah which hasn't happened many times in my life right it's not the only time it's happened it's not many but the thing with jessica is like there is this like enormous amount of peace that follows it that has never been the case right i thought it's too and obviously like we have our differences kaelin and i um she's a little bit more traditional and a little bit less traditional of course but uh yeah it's just it's a it's a it's a nice feeling dean you're in a relationship life has changed for you since we were last

first introduced to you on The Bachelorette. I have a few emails from some of your biggest fans. They're not going to be easy to answer. And then I leave with this in every in-depth episode, we do this. We say, hey, Dean, give us a message to send our listeners out on because we've got to know you through this podcast. And I think everybody's sitting around would say, yeah, we've got to know Dean a little bit better today. Agreed? All the heads are shaking.

Yeah. Well, you guys know that about my testicles now, so I guess. A little bit at least. Dean, this email is from Susan. Susan says, I was wondering how Dean feels about the way Rachel has been talking about Kalin without even meeting her. The Kalen listened to his interview on the Rachel's podcast. What were her thoughts? When does he think the two will ever meet?

Kaylin and Rachel have met. Post, I think, I don't know. I don't know. I don't really want to have much of an opinion on this. I don't think that's... I don't need to. Okay, cool. If you don't want to, you don't need to.

I think my girlfriend's great and I think that's... So really all that matters as it pertains to the relationship. And I think Rachel should focus on her relationship. Next email is from Vanessa, not the Vanessa we know. Back during Colton's season, there was drama surrounding Kalin sliding into Dean's DMs and not being there for the right reasons. Is it ironic that the next chance she gets to date him, they walk off on the show together? Was this a red flag for Dean knowing that she was cast for Colton's season while interested in you?

Also, the timeline of Kalin's being in a relationship with Blake, doesn't add up because she was in talks to be the potential bachelor's. So if that were true, there's no reason why she would be in a committed relationship with Blake. Like she told people in paradise. Was this a red flag for you, Dean? Um, no, I don't think that really made much sense. Uh, Kaelin was cast for Colton's season. Yes. I think that you're allowed to have a crush on someone and then also you're allowed to go and date someone else too. I don't think there's much issue with that. I will say I'm going to speak on Kailen's behalf. She wanted to. Jason Tardick to be the bachelor and she went on Colton season. I don't think that's an issue

either. It's not like I need someone to be like, I've only had eyes for you since the day that I was born. Like she's a free woman to do what she wants. It's like, um, the Blake stuff, man, that stuff's been beaten like a dead horse, like a dead horse. Is it like a dead horse? It's been beaten to death. Um, I don't think we really need to talk about that anymore. I would agree. So here's a truth to it. In summary, Dean and Kailen are together. Things are going well. Those were the hard emails you were telling me about? I feel like there has to be something. harder than that. No, that's pretty hard. Especially hard because

Caitlin's in the room. I know. I know, you're right. Um, okay. Dean, this is the end of the in-depth episode. One that we were very thankful that you came on. Thank you first off for coming on here and sharing who you are with us, allowing us

to fill in the gaps of where we might have missed it during your time on The Bachelor. I think, hopefully, and tell me if I'm wrong, these podcasts help give a clearer picture of who Dean is. Um, yeah, what's funny about podcasts to me is I always, well, I don't always listen to them back, but sometimes I'll listen back to a podcast that either I was on or a friend of mine was on. And I'll always like look back and be like, well, I wish we would have dived into this a little bit deeper or went down this alley a little bit longer kind of thing. Um, and I'm sure like, if I listen to this podcast back, I might obviously not because it's kind of embarrassing for me in a lot of ways. Uh, I hope that I don't feel that way. I don't expect to. Um, Whenever you, like, think about your story to yourself, and for whatever reason you're doing it, you always, like, kind of plan the things that you want to talk about and, like, what you want to touch on.

And I feel like, obviously, conversation flows, ebbs and flows and doesn't necessarily allow that at all the times. But I think that this was really good. And I think that you did a great job of navigating the conversation. You got the ball story out of me for the first time in public that's ever happened. That's a big. That's a big one. And I thought about every, every platform that I would have had to share that story. I never, never expected it to be this.

you did a fantastic job. You made me feel comfortable. You made me feel like I was at home, so I appreciate that. But is there anything right now that you do look back on during this and you're like, I wish we would have gone deeper? I'm grateful that we didn't go deeper on Bachelor Winter Games. I'm grateful that the thing about all these stories, right, is that whatever I say, whatever story I share,

it's never going to be the full truth. whether I think it is or not, it's never going to be 100% accurate. And so it just doesn't necessarily make sense to kind of go into a lot of like the he said, she said type of stuff because it's never going to be right. And so I appreciate that we didn't dwell on that stuff for very long because my experience with Bachelor in Paradise is my experience and everyone else's is everyone else's. So it's just like, it's kind of a challenging thing to navigate when you want to open up about it. And like I don't want to put anyone on blast ever either.

So like while you're trying to be respectful of their private. you also want to like share your side of the story even though you know that that's maybe not exact like if you were to go with a third party objective view to that stuff like maybe you would see things a little bit differently so it's just always like a weird challenging dynamic but um i don't think that we could have gone deeper into anything than we did i i am a little upset that um we talked a little bit about how there were only a few moments that i were to show emotion during this podcast that you said because i wanted to show emotion during this podcast that you said because I wanted to show more and I do want to show more

and obviously we've gotten there a couple of times as friends but it's kind of I guess hard to be like that performative and be like let's dive into this and like let's get super emotional about it especially when when it comes to things like talking about my mother passing away or Hunter or Alex it's kind of gotten to the point where I've just began to recite like a script in my head you know what I mean you explain it enough times you basically just spit out the facts as quickly as you can and then you hope to move on to the next topic and this was

It was that, but it was like a maybe a more watered down version of that where we would dove a little bit deeper into, which I appreciate. But I still feel like there were times where I was kind of like going into autopilot mode and just like saying things that I've said a thousand times. You know what I mean? And so if I were to listen back to this, I would probably be critical of myself for not being more, I guess, like spontaneous with my emotions and like figuring out exactly what might have been causing those, like words that I was saying, you know? and I don't know how to respond to that because I feel like it's it is one of the detriments to doing a having a public life at any level is you get asked about the things that have been most pivotal in your story like a mother passing

or a best friend passing and you get asked about it so consistently even today like different thing but for me some pivotal points in my life are my times in Honduras and like my relationship with Lauren I just did a press tour today and I was asked about Lauren getting married on every single one of my stops. Like, that's my ex, who I spent two years in my life with, who, like, has held a big piece of my heart for a while. Or your mother, who has a huge role in your life,

but you talk about it so consistently that you become numb to the answers, and it does become routine, and it's scary. It's scary, but it's also healthy, because I know that in my own time, there is a deep sensitivity and caring for those moments. that like I can't highlight publicly because I just I do I turn into a robot right well and also think about it this way like in my case what would it be like if every time someone asked me to

talk about my mother like I broke down and started crying you know what I mean like that just doesn't really seem healthy I don't know but maybe it is maybe it's not I don't know I don't know exactly it just it's like like you said you kind of become numb to it and you just basically recite the things that you've learned to recite just so you can kind of either a get off a topic you're uncomfortable talking about and move on to something else or for whatever other reason i don't know dean um close out here 30 second message to our listeners before we do ashley has written some uh rapid fire questions for you we're going to bring on bob dalton at the end of the podcast but 30 second message to our listeners of who you're

becoming who you want to be and how they can live their best life oh wow best life that's a good going. Who am I becoming? I think every day I grew up to hopefully become a better version of myself. I don't really know. This is kind of a weird 30 second segment. If you're listening to this, be sure to listen to Help I Suck at Dating on IHart Radio. Also, if you're listening to this, a big thing that people reach out to me often about on Instagram is about the traveling that I do. I think that I've learned a lot about myself through the travels that I've done, both by myself and with friends and significant others. And if you're ever questioning whether you should do something along those lines. I fully support it and encourage you to do it because I've learned

a lot about myself. I've gained, I would say almost all of the confidence I have nowadays is just through traveling, especially as of lately by myself with my friends. And it's invaluable experience and it's incredibly fun. Be sure to check out my website, www.dinibabies.com. I'm writing about my travels a little bit more. And I want to be able to share with you kind of like the nitty-gritty side of traveling not really like the puffed up like i share about my costs and my planning and all that kind of stuff and i kind of want to shed some light on that side of things to hopefully allow you to understand it better to be able to do it yourself because it's changed me a lot as a human so that's it so where can they find the blog deaniebabies dot com deaniebabies dot com coming at you dean send us out here

ashley's rapid fire questions tv show you're loving right now oh living with yourself you can only have one of these toothpaste floss soap which one do you pick oh man toothpaste artist you want to have play at your wedding oh John Craigie

good choice why I didn't know I just saw him live did you? Oh yeah love John Gregory I'm super jealous yeah I like that about you hey celebrity crush Caitlin Miller Keys Can't choose her

Oh Jamie Chung I'm not not surprised Jared or Nick Jared and Nick, I don't know. Ben. That's a messed up question. Yeah, that is.

You can only listen to one of these bands forever. Which one do you pick? Insync Backstreet Boys or Jonas Brothers. I'll go deaf. Thank you very much. And this one is easy. Which one would you rather give up, drinking or traveling? Drinking.

Dean Ungler, everybody. It's holiday season. We're up in. flying, we're driving, we're planes, trains, automobiles, walking. I don't know what you want to do. You can do a lot of things during your travel, but make sure you've got a bag to go

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I want something that is durable and great quality. And if anything breaks, the away customer service team will have it fixed or replaced. You can visit the away stores in New York, Austin, Los Angeles, San Francisco, Boston, Chicago, and London. Listen up. For $20 off a suitcase, visit awaytravel.com backslash famous. And use promo code famous during checkout. Again, for $20 off a suitcase, visit awaytravel.com, backslash, famous and use promo code famous during checkout.

You heard us talk about it many times before. Just for a little reminder, two years ago, I started on a journey with a few of my buddies starting a company called Generous International. I'm not going to bore you with it because if you're a fan of the show, you've probably heard it many times before, but Generous sells coffee, T-shirts, bracelets, mugs, other products with stories behind them. And then we donate the profits, 100% of them back to nonprofits, social coffee. etc. that are making life change in the world so it's fighting human injustice that are

affecting humans and here right now we are partnering with a campaign with sackcloth and ashes sackcloth and ashes is a blanket company that is a give one how would you explain that bob buy one give one model is that what you call that buy one give one local local model we're partnering sackcloth and ashes because for every blanket you buy between October 26 through October 30th a blink will be donated to your local homeless shelter along with you'll receive

a 12 ounce bag of coffee and 25% of the proceeds will be donated to the LA mission and right now my good buddy one of my greatest friends one of my newest friends Bob Dalton is in studio talking to us about the campaign right now

Bob obviously I know the story behind sackcloth and ashes but for the listeners out there that do not why was sackcloth started yeah so i launched the company five years ago and it was inspired by my mom who ended up living on the streets uh for a short period of time and it completely changed my paradigm of how i view and understand homelessness because i was always the guy that would drive by people on the street and whisper under my breath go get a job and she ended up in that situation

and it changed my paradigm because she has two college degrees she raised my sister and i by herself She's the hardest working woman I know. And so the idea that she would end up in that situation, it inspired me to call my local homeless shelters and ask what they needed and they all said blankets. And I was familiar with the one for one model, but I felt like the evolution to the one for one model was to evolve it and make it local. And giving people all around the United States an opportunity to make a difference down the street from where they live. And so I came up with the idea that for every blanket purchased will donate a blanket to that person's local homeless shelters.

So if you live in Austin, Texas, and you buy a blanket, we'll send a blanket to a homeless shelter in Austin. If you live in Nashville, Tennessee, you buy a blanket, we'll send a blanket to a shelter in Nashville. The whole concept was, let's empower people to make a difference in their local communities to help an issue that is in all of our backyards. You actually brought in, I think, two blankets for Mark and Easton today. You want to pass those out real quick?

Yeah, that'd be great. Check these out as we're talking. Yeah, we're passing out the blankets right now for Mark and Easton to take home. cuddle up with tonight with their lovely wives. Easton has the biggest smile on his face. There's not one man that loves getting gifts more than Easton. Bob, as they open up these gifts here, I want to talk to you a little bit. Then you see a need, you hear a need from the local shelters, you start this blanket

company, and then what is the story of sackcloth and ashes been? Because that's where it starts, but it's definitely not, there's a lot that's happened to get you to this place where you are now? Yeah, so the quick overview is I launched the company with a sewing machine and a roll of fabric from Joanne's fabric. And shout out to Joanne's. I still get the discount codes on my phone. And I realized really quickly that I can't sew.

And so I found a lady in my community that could sew. She started making me blankets. I'd box them up. Started driving up and down the Oregon coast and getting into as many shops as I could. And my only business strategy was post on Instagram once a day. So I'm posting on Instagram. This is back in 2014 when Instagram was just at the early stages of kind of at the bottom of the wave. November of 2014, five months into business, Instagram emailed me.

And they're like, Bob, we love your story. We love what you're doing. We want to feature you on Instagram's Instagram account. And that was kind of our Kickstarter. That was our big break as a company. They post about us. We go out to 42 million people. And we grew like 20,000 followers overnight.

Ultimately, what that did was it gave us the ability to work with pretty much any content creator on Instagram. So there was a time, like 2014, 2015, I was working with over 100 influencers at one time and just built the brand on social media for the first four years. 2018, we launched our first major campaign called Blanket the United States, where our goal is to donate one million blankets to homeless shelters by 2024. And we're going to do that by partnering with people individually who buy a blanket from our website.

We'll send a blanket to their local homeless shelter. And we're going to do that by partnering with companies that, to give gifts to their employees or their customers, they can now give a blanket as a gift and make a difference in their local homeless shelter. So it's answering a huge question for tons of corporations around the United States that are like, how can we make a difference in our local communities? You can now give a blanket as a gift and make a difference in your local community. So what that's done is it's opened up the door for us to work with organizations all around the United States and partner with people like Ben to run specific awareness campaigns

to bring exposure and light to organizations that are actually doing really good work on a grassroots level. It's, you know, for anybody out there listening, Sackcloth and Ashes has quickly become one of the most prominent for-purpose companies in the U.S. And obviously, Generis is working really hard to continue to do good as well. You know, for somebody like Sackcloth and Ashes, who you have a platform, You have a product. Things are going well. Why do you partner with a company like Generis? I just had a lot of respect for you personally because, you know,

anybody that gains following really quick, it's really fascinating to see what they ultimately do with that platform. And I had a lot of respect for you because you actually use your platform to start something from the ground up. And, you know, I just have respect for anybody that's out there trying to start something from the ground up. Entrepreneurship is incredibly difficult. And 80% of the time doesn't work out.

So the fact that you used the platform that you had to actually start something from the ground up and specifically start something from the ground up that actually is making a difference, that's what really drew me to what you're doing. And, you know, I'm a fan. I'm a supporter of anybody out there that's actually showing up and trying to make stuff happen like that. And so, yeah, it's been a privilege to be able to partner with you in generous and being able to do this specific campaign. Yeah, well, it sounds like I just teed myself up for a really nice compliment there. I think Bob and I have gotten along really well because I think Generis' mission to donate profits back and kind of be the engine that fuels nonprofits

that are trying to make life change and sackcloth nash is a mission to blink the U.S. and to help people without homes feel known, be loved, and have that blanket. As we close out here, Bob, you said something this morning as we had coffee that I think is, it really hits home for me. Because blankets are so much more.

more than just a material item to have in the whole. Why was blankets and why has been blankets been so important to you? Yeah, we kind of hit the jackpot with blankets just because blankets was or is a universal product. Everybody has blankets. Everybody deserves to have a blanket. And blankets are an item of dignity and comfort, you know, and beyond that, ultimately blankets have become a third-party object that's connecting me with people that have

incredible amount of resources and influence and companies that have influence and connecting me with the organizations on a ground level that are showing up every single day and actually doing the work on a grassroots level. And I get to be the bridge builder, the blanket's become the connector where I actually get to have conversations with these people that have resources and have a platform to bring exposure and resources to the people that actually need it right now. And the more that we focus on issues in our society and in our media, the more issues we create, the more that we focus on solutions, the better society we create. And so the blankets ultimately are creating an opportunity for me to be able to use my

platform and invite other people to use their platform to highlight solutions that are being created all around the United States that are doing good work to help solve and bring some aid to the issue of homelessness. So in summary, here's what's happening. October 26th through the 30th, and we'll probably let it run out a little bit longer. So if you're listening to this and you're like, oh, it's the 31st. That's okay. You can still play. Type in the code generous when you purchase a blanket online at sackcloth nashes.com.

With that, your local homeless shelter will receive a blanket, along with you will receive a bag of generous coffee. And then the L.A. Mission is going to receive 25% of the proceeds from this campaign. We've talked about it before, and I want to say it again, the only heroes in this are the consumers. And so you have to purchase to make this campaign successful. It's the holiday season. These are great holiday gifts. We're excited to be doing this together. And thank you to Iheart for letting us come on and talk about it. And also thanks to I heart for helping set up kind of the press tour today. It's been a great day. And I am so excited to be able to partner with people like Bob and his team at Sackcloth and Ashes, along with Generous, to make some life

change happen. And we're excited to do it with you all. So again, that's Sackcloth and Ashes. dot com type in the code generous follow the ben and ashley i almost famous podcast on i heart radio or subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

Thank you. Thank you. Hi, my name is Enya Yumanzoor. And I'm Drew Phillips. And we run a podcast called Emergency Intercom. If you're a crime junkie and you love crimes, we're not the podcast for you. But if you have unmedicated ADHD... Oh my God, perfect.

And want to hear people with mental illness, psycho babble. Yes, yes. Then Emergency Intercom is the podcast for you. Open your free I-Heart Radio. app, search emergency intercom, and listen now. The U.S. Open is here, and on my podcast, Good Game with Sarah Spain, I'm breaking down the players, the predictions, the pressure, and, of course, the honey deuses, the signature cocktail of the U.S. Open.

The U.S. Open has gotten to be a very wonderfully experiential sporting event. To hear this and more, listen to Good Game with Sarah Spain, an IHeart women's sports production in partnership with Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Brought to you by Novartis, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports Network. Hey, I'm Kurt Brown-Oller. And I am Scotty Landis, and we host Bananas, the podcast where we share the weirdest, funniest, real news stories from all around the world.

And sometimes from our guest personal lives, too. Like when Whitney Cummings recently revealed her origin story on the show. There's no way I don't already have rabies. This is probably just why my personality is like this. I've been surviving rabies for the past 20 years. New episodes of bananas drop every Tuesday in the exact. right now we'll listen to bananas on the iHeart radio app apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts just like great shoes great books take you places through unforgettable love stories

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Why are TSA rules so confusing? You got a hood of you. I'll take it off. I'm Manny. I'm Noah. This is Devin. And we're best friends and journalists with a new podcast called No Such Thing, where we get to the bottom of questions like that. Why are you screaming? I can't expect what to do.

Now, if the rule was the same, go off on me. I deserve it. You know, lock him up. Listen to No Such Thing on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. No such thing. This is an IHeart podcast.