The Ben and Ashley I Almost Famous Podcast - Almost Famous In Depth: Sean and Catherine Lowe

Episode Date: October 1, 2020

We are going In Depth with a Bachelor Nation couple...Sean and Catherine.Sean Lowe is the ONLY Bachelor that stayed with his "final rose". Ben and Ashley go In Depth revealing how this couple knew it was love even while surrounded by cameras and how they continue to make it work each and every day. Sean admits he didn’t go on The Bachelor for “the right reasons” and Catherine reveals who she thought Sean was going to choose.  Find out the shocking secret Catherine kept from Night One! Sean and Catherine are one of Bachelor Nation's favorite relationships.And, if you think you aren't a fan of this couple, listening to this episode just might change your mind. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. My boyfriend's professor is way too friendly, and now I'm seriously suspicious. Wait a minute, Sam. Maybe her boyfriend's just looking for extra credit. Well, Dakota, luckily, it's back to school week on the OK Storytime podcast, so we'll find out soon. This person writes, my boyfriend's been hanging out with his young professor a lot. He doesn't think it's a problem, but I don't trust her. Now he's insisting we get to know each other, but I just want her gone.

Hold up. Isn't that against school policy? That seems inappropriate. Maybe find out how it ends by listening to the OK Storytime podcast and the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, my name is Enya Umanzor. And I'm Drew Phillips. And we run a podcast called Emergency Intercom. If you're a crime junkie and you love crimes, we're not the podcast for you. But if you have unmedicated ADHD... Oh, my God, perfect.

And want to hear people with mental illness, psychobabble. Yes, yes. Then Emergency Intercom is the podcast for you. Open your free IHeartRadio app. Search Emergency Intercom and listen now. Why are TSA rules so confusing? You got a hood of you. I'm take it all.

I'm Manny. I'm Noah. This is Devin. And we're best friends and journalists with a new podcast called No Such Thing, where we get to the bottom of questions like that. Why are you screaming? I can't expect what to do. Now, if the rule was the same, go off on me.

I deserve it. You know, lock him up. Listen to No Such Thing on the. iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. No such thing. I'm Dr. Joy Hardin-Bradford, host of the Therapy for Black Girls podcast. I know how overwhelming it can feel if flying makes you anxious. In session 418 of the Therapy for Black Girls podcast, Dr. Angela Neal-Barnett and I discuss flight anxiety.

What is not normal is to allow it to prevent you from doing the things that you want to do. the things that she were meant to do. Listen to therapy for black girls on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Your entire identity has been fabricated. Your beloved brother goes missing without a trace. You discover the depths of your mother's illness. I'm Danny Shapiro. And these are just a few of the powerful stories I'll be mining on our upcoming 12th season of family secrets.

We continue to be moved and inspired by our guests and their courageous. told stories. Listen to Family Secrets Season 12 on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is Ben and Ashley I, almost famous, in-depth. Well, as usual, in-depth are Ashley and I's favorite thing to do during the week. And this week, we have two people who really need no introduction. In fact, there isn't even an introduction to give because they are so nice. known they are so loved they are be loved they have been around bachelor nation for a bit but that is

not now what we want to talk to them about we want to talk to them about their life post bachelor what families like what they're up to what they're doing sean and katherine thank you for joining us thanks for having us we also want to talk about pre bachelor life uh so we start out these in debbs basically by asking everyone just to describe their childhood in like two minutes oh wow yeah big thing to do you siblings parents like what you are like in school the shy kid the popular kid Sean I feel like you are the jock I'll start uh yeah I guess I guess you could say I was the jock raised by two amazing parents I have an older sister Shay um raised in urban Texas just outside of Dallas it was it was a great idealic upbringing um we always talk about

schools because we have kids are starting to get to the age of going to school and everything. I didn't go to the best school, but I think that helped me a lot. A lot of my best friends came from like single family homes and things like that. So I think it just gave me perspective, which I really still appreciate to this day. And yeah, I was always kind of the jock. Also an academic. I was on a role too, but ended up. Amazing. ended up going to Kansas State on a football scholarship and then I guess in my 20s kind of bounced around jobs and then the bachelor came knocking. We'll go to Catherine before I go about your post-grad life because I remember wanting to talk

about that because of your book because I read your book five years ago. Thanks. Catherine? So mine was probably the opposite of Sean Lowe's. I grew up in Seattle. I had two sisters. I have two sisters. And I grew up next door to five cousins, an uncle, an auntie, and a grandma. And I think that being so close to my family, it gave me a really cool perspective. That's kind of what I want for our children, just to be around family and to prioritize. So, yeah, I grew up in Seattle. I was a kid who liked to do everything. So I played football in sixth grade. but then I was a cheerleader in high school and I played soccer and so I was super active and I really wanted to try everything and then the states flow into Washington state go coogs and and it was in the state but it was a opposite completely opposite of Seattle and what just the environment of being able to understand a completely different way of life these people were

you know, ag people and they just came from the opposite side. So it kind of helped me adapt to Dallas because Dallas is the complete opposite of Seattle. And then after college, I came back to Seattle. I worked at Amazon as a graphic designer and I had a really normal, like happy, balanced upbringing, I think. And then I went on the show, which I didn't sign up for. Neither one of us signed up to go on the show because we were just so normal we didn't really think that that's like what our life was going to be and we weren't really interested. I like I read the bus and I wore Birkenstocks and I wasn't concerned at all about what people thought about me. And so going on the show was like just surreal. And so that's, that's good. Do you ever get jealous that you

are close to Sean's family in Texas and far and the kids get to be with them all the time and not with yours in Seattle because Jared and I plan on moving to his home state and I wonder if I'll be like, but you know, your parents get to see them all the time. Well, I mean, it's totally dependent on your situation. I absolutely love it. I feel like when we moved to Dallas, it was a really hard adjustment for me personally because it was 180, right? So like everything was different. I didn't have like a stable situation where I was working and I was meeting people there. It was really, I was living his life. And so it was a really hard transition, but I knew that as long as my children were going

to experience his family and how close they were, because I can emulate somewhat closer to what I grew up with his family, because my family's dispersed. They're all over the world. So I wouldn't, if I moved to Seattle, it wouldn't be the same thing that I felt in. It's closer to what we grow up, or what my kids grow up in Dallas. So I absolutely love it. I consider his mom one of my best friends, and I couldn't imagine any better way that my kids could grow up.

That's so nice. I have a weird question for you guys. I've never asked this after talking about childhoods. We've interviewed a few parents. But what does your childhood represent to you now as parents? And let me tell you where this is coming from. So for me, the older and older I get, my childhood is like more. feels like a different it's like a different life i've forgotten a lot of things i know there's things

that i've kept with me does that even increase when you become parents like how much of time do you think back on like what brought you up to how you guide your kids today i think i think a lot of people will tell you as parents and as you get older even if you're not parents you kind of turn into your parents so you realize the situation that you were put in as a kid and it is this weird like I grew up looking at my mom this way. I wonder if my kids look at me this way and am I creating that environment for them and what will I not want to do how I grew up?

So I think there's a lot of comparing and I think it does transfer you back to your childhood but in a very weird different way. It's kind of like you're looking at yourself, in my opinion, like above and saying, okay, is this kind of how you grew up and what do you want to shape your kids to be and guiding them in a different way

or in the same way that your childhood brought you. So I look at it in as a really cool way, especially knowing that my kids are growing up with somebody who grew up very opposite of me. So I'm trying to put in tidbits into their life, how I grew up, but also take, you get to kind of pick and choose how your childhood shape you and try to figure out how to shape your kids.

Yeah, I'd echo that. I'm constantly thinking, you know, how did my parents handle this situation with me when I'm trying to handle that same situation with my kids? And then my parents did a lot of wonderful things for me, which I want to pass those wonderful things on and create those same wonderful memories with my kids. So, yeah, I'm constantly thinking about my childhood. But then again, I had a great childhood to think back on it.

And I think you're also way more empathetic to your parents. Like my mom raised three daughters on a teacher salary. Wow. No partner for the majority. you know, for, I guess, half of my childhood. So, like, I'm like mom and all the single moms out there that are working, I always say, like, I'm so grateful that I have a partner in this. And I just kind of have a little bit more, a different perspective on that.

And I'm grateful to have a partner, but I also feel like looking at other people's situations, I have more empathy. Sean, in your book, you talk about, like, having kind of been a little bit loss as to what to do with your life after graduation. I feel like so many people go through that with college. Like those like 23, 24, 25, you're just like, what the heck am I doing? For you, you didn't have football anymore. You're doing insurance sales, right?

I did a number of things. I've always been like a serial entrepreneur. And so I started several different businesses. Some of them worked okay. Some of them filled miserably. And then the family business and my family is insurance. And so the one that failed miserably, I was like, I cannot take any more chances. being an entrepreneur. So I got into insurance, which I knew I was going to hate, and I got

into it. Yes, I hated it as much as I thought I would. And then the bachelor came calling, and luckily for me, post-batchelor opportunities arose that allowed me to kind of flex these entrepreneurial muscles that I always wanted to flex. Nice. Yeah, I mean, the bachelor came at the right time for me, too, so I get it. I had a great mentor in my early 20s who told me, you have until the age of 32 to kind of figure it out. I love thinking of that tenure window during that time frame because when you're out of college, so many people don't know what they're going to do with their lives.

And if you're like me, you know you want to do something kind of outside the box, but you don't know exactly what it is. You know you have these entrepreneurial urges. So I always encourage everyone, like just go try things. You may like it. You may not, but go try things. You don't have to have one steady job when you're 24 years old.

You've got time to figure it out. And then hopefully by the time you're third. you've got it figured out and you have kind of a roadmap for the future. You know, you both have been involved in a lot post-batchelor. And then, you know, obviously you've had kids. My friends are starting to have kids. And there's a lot of listeners out there who have children. How then do you balance all of this?

Because I think with my buddies, they're in this constant balance of just trying to hold a job with, you know, three kids, four kids running around. If you are trying to flex those muscles, if you are trying to get involved in new opportunities, and cool things how do you find the balance between that and parenting oh gosh really hard we are so fortunate we are so blessed that we get to do things and try things with our um you know also parenting our children we have a really good balance but for a lot of people out there they don't have um the blessing to kind of try things out and see if they work so maybe like having a hobby on the side of your regular job would be really something like a good outlet Like I have a normal thing that we do, but then I have a side business that really gets me excited.

And if that thing that will turn into something bigger, then maybe that will be my main. So that's kind of. Yeah. And practically speaking, we both work from home. We both have great business partners who are kind of boots on the ground type of people. And then we have a nanny that helps us out with the kids too. So we're seeing the kids a lot throughout the day. We're spending quality time with our kids every single day.

and then we have great partners who kind of provides support on the other end as well. My boyfriend's professor is way too friendly and now I'm seriously suspicious. Wait a minute, Sam. Maybe her boyfriend's just looking for extra credit. Well, Dakota, it's back to school week

on the OK Storytime podcast, so we'll find out soon. This person writes, my boyfriend has been hanging out with his young professor a lot. He doesn't think it's a problem, but I don't trust her. Now he's insisting we get to know each other,

but I just want her gone. Now, hold up. Isn't that against school policy? That sounds totally inappropriate. Well, according to this person, this is her boyfriend's former professor, and they're the same age. And it's even more likely that they're cheating. He insists there's nothing between them. I mean, do you believe him?

Well, he's certainly trying to get this person to believe him because he now wants them both to meet. So, do we find out if this person's boyfriend really cheated with his professor or not? To hear the explosive finale, listen to the OK Storytime podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Hi, my name is Enya Humanzor. And I'm Drew Phillips. And we run a podcast called Emergency Intercom. If you're a crime junkie and you love crimes, we're not the podcast for you. But if you have unmedicated ADHD...

Oh my God, perfect. And want to hear people with mental illness, psycho babble. Yes, yes. Then Emergency Intercom is the podcast for you. Open your free IHeartRadio app. Search Emergency Intercom. And listen now. Imagine that you're on an airplane and all of a sudden you hear this.

Attention passengers, the pilot is having an emergency and we need someone, anyone to land this plane. Think you could do it? It turns out that nearly 50% of men think that they could land the plane with the help of air traffic control. And they're saying like, okay, pull this, do this, pull that, turn this. It's just, I can do my eyes close. I'm Manny. I'm Noah. This is Devon.

And on our new show, No Such Thing, we get to the bottom of questions like these. Join us as we talk to the leading expert on overconfidence. Those who lack expertise lack the expertise they need to recognize that they lack expertise. And then, as we try the whole thing out for real. Wait, what? Oh, that's the run right. I'm looking at this thing. Listen to No Such Thing on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Your entire identity has been fabricated. Your beloved brother goes missing without a trace. You discover the depths of your mother's illness the way it has echoed and reverberated throughout your life, impacting your very legacy. Hi, I'm Danny Shapiro. And these are just a few of the profound and powerful stories I'll be mining on our 12th season of Family Secrets.

With over 37 million downloads, we continue to be moved and inspired by our guests and their courageously told stories. I can't wait to share 10 powerful new episodes with you, stories of tangled up identities, concealed truths, and the way in which family secrets almost always need to be told. I hope you'll join me and my extraordinary guests for this new season of Family Secrets. Listen to Family Secrets Season 12 on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. My name is Ed. Everyone say, hello Ed.

Hello, Ed. I'm from a very rural background myself. My dad is a farmer, and my mom is a cousin. So, like, it's not like... What do you get when a true crime producer walks into a comedy club? I know it sounds like the start of a bad joke, but that really was my reality nine years ago. I just normally do straight stand-up, but this is a bit different. On stage stood a comedian with a story that no one expected to hear. Well, 22nd of July 2015, a 23-year-old man had killed his family. And then he came to my house.

So what do you get when a true crime producer walks into a comedy club? A new podcast called Wisecrack, where stand-up comedy and murder takes center stage. Available now. Listen to Wisecrack on the IHeart Radio app, couple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Ben, should we get into the bachelor process right now? Yeah, you know, I think this is all super intriguing for me because we have a couple sitting in front of us who are terrific parents who came from a show that we get to talk about

a lot. Now, I don't think we should sit on it for very long, Ash, but yeah, we got to dive in. Okay, so you both said you didn't sign yourself up. for it. You were both nominated by other people. Uh, who nominated who? It was your sister, right, Sean? Yeah, my sister nominated me and then her best friend nominated her. But explain to about Shay and Andrew. Well, I introduced my, my sister is married to, uh, one of my buddies that I played football with at K state. So I introduced them. So she felt like at that stage in my life, she needed to return the favor, hoping by some miracle that the bachelor would worked out and here we are.

Isn't that incredible? Catherine, how's your how's your audition tape? Do you know what your audition tape looked like? Like did she fill out the questionnaire perfectly? When did you find out? I don't actually know. I've never seen like what she did. I just remember her

calling me and I was dating someone at the time and she did my best friend did not like the guy I was dating. She was like, I think Ashley and JP had just wrapped up and she was like, oh, I want you to find your JP. And so she put, she's married. She knew that I like to say yes to things because it's so fun and I want a story. And so she put my picture up and some little tidbits. And she called me one night and was like, so what picture should I put up? And what I'm going to write this. And I was like totally disregarding what she was saying. He'd be completely crazy in that

moment. And I just told her like, that's not my thing. Like I don't want to get drunk. I don't want to wear a bikini. I don't want to court up some guy. I'm happy in my life. And so then three months later I get a call and I'm super flattered like I'm like wow these people actually called me and I was like well what can an email hurt right so I call the guy up that I was dating still and I told him hey you know the bachelors call me how stupid is that like how crazy and how ridiculous and I was really being negative about it but I was still like very flattered that they would call me and he was like oh you should do it that's what the guy you were dating said I was like okay obviously don't want to be with me anymore.

And so I think that was like one of the last conversations I ever had with him was like, if you really think that that is what I want for my life is to like be a celebrity when like I literally am living the complete opposite life. Very content in it. I was like we're obviously not aligned in this. So we I,

what I remember, we broke up like literally that day. Because it just didn't make any sense. If you wanted me to go find the prince and go marry him when I was dating somebody. So I think it's a really funny way to be, like, thrown in to The Bachelor. I should write the guy. Thank you, Clark.

No, you should. Absolutely. Catherine, do you feel like you found a prince? Oh, yeah. I mean. Someday. Yeah, no, someday. I did.

No, I'm kidding. No, he is literally, I remember seeing him on Emily's season and thinking, like, that is a specimen that I've never seen before. And not just that he was very attracted to me. He was, like, a nice family guy. He seemed very respectful to other people. And it completely came true when I met him. Like, I knew seeing him behind the scenes and having those camera times where you really

aren't, you're very limited. I witnessed him, like, being so respectful of the crew and knowing their names and taking the time to actually talk to them. And I knew that when he did that and the cameras were down, that he was a genuinely nice man who I was, I knew that I was signing up and I was continuing this very weird situation to meet him and to be with him and to court him. Catherine, I love that you're just like, I love your like flirting style. And I was reminded of it through that goat episode that aired a couple months ago.

Because you just like look at Chon, you're like, you are the most wonderful, beautiful thing I've ever seen in my entire life. And I do the same thing to Jared. Like, every day I, like, hold his face. I'm like, do you know that you're a prince? You're so beautiful inside and out. Like, it just doesn't get old. And I love that you still act the exact same way.

That's awesome. I could see that we parallel each other sometimes. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. And I didn't get to, like, kind of see that your first time around. Actually, your first time around, I feel like you were such a dark horse. that we didn't get to

well we certainly I feel like didn't get to know enough about you and when we watched the Goat episode back I love the way that they highlighted you the way that I feel like they should have the entire season how do you feel about like I think seriously being the probably the darkest horse winner of all Bachelor history

well thank you I mean I think I was because I really was like I didn't consider myself a contender for probably the first four weeks I was, I did not always looking at me. I knew that on paper we didn't really seem like we'd be a match. And I looked at him like he was super hot and someone who could never look at me,

like just that guy in high school, like everybody likes him and he doesn't see you. And I kind of felt like that for the majority of my life. So seeing him, I didn't really like think, oh, he's looking at me. Like I know I'm here, I'm probably checking the box of the diversity and I'm okay with that like I'm having a glass like he's hot he's like talking to me and we're going to places so I really counted myself out for those first four weeks and then when

he thought I had friends owned him and we actually shared our first kiss I still felt those butterflies and I also took a lot of the things that he said with a grain of salt I knew he was talking to other girls the same way so I kind of still kept a conservative watch on a relationship and knowing my feelings could escape me so I kind of tried to to rein them in. So I think that most of the show was me really not thinking that it was a serious thing. Like, yeah, I'm looking at him as if he's my crush, but really not be more because I don't think he sees me that way. Catherine, I want to highlight something you just said there, because I think a lot of our listeners feel this way, including myself. So you live most of your life being the person

that, like, in high school, you said you felt like the outsider to Sean. You felt like you're watching him you didn't think he was ever going to you know commit to you and like see you in the same way that you saw him so if we jump up a little bit to the moment that he did say hey katherine like you're it you know i love you let's make this thing happen has has those insecurities left you at that moment did you still have to work through those uh or are they still lasting today a bit um i think it's evened out and i also know that throughout um um the series or the season, I knew that I had a lot to offer, but I didn't think it was in like the appearance-wise, right? So like I knew that I was dealing with models.

Like these girls on our season and all the seasons are beautiful, they're stunning, they could be models. And so in the sense of my appearance, I never felt super confident. And still to this day, it's lingering. I think a lot of girls have insecurities in that way still. but I think I offered a lot in another way and I think when we were having me serious talks I knew what I brought to the table and if he saw me and was attracted to me

then I knew that I could really add a different element to it and not just be like oh I'm hot and look at me and all this I knew that when we had conversations and he said oh I'm attracted to you I could really talk about other things and so I felt like an equal-ish to him I felt more in line with him when he proposed. And I also knew that he was so serious about his words and he had such

conviction in the way that he felt that he wouldn't have proposed to me if he wasn't completely serious. So I just knew that about him and I felt very validated in my appearance through him. And I just think that we were a really, really good match in every other way. Sean, she talks so much about how, you know, she felt like she was just like part of the crowd. When did you really start noticing her? Well, I knew from from night one, she had this contagious energy, you know, just so bubbly and cute. And like, she was just one of those people. You can't put your finger on it, but you know you just want to be around them.

That's how I felt on night one. And so I knew I wanted to get to know her. And then later on in that evening on night one, she did this little ice cream thing. where she could determine my personality by the ice cream I choose. I just, I thought all of that was really cute and I loved her playfulness. As far as like really picturing myself,

spending the rest of my life with her, oh gosh, our first one-on-one in Canada was pretty epic. And like I had some serious feelings and I think, you know, I think when you're the lead on the show and you have 25 or 26 women, Um, the first half of it is just spent like, wow, like this is overwhelming and you're traveling and you're doing this and that. And you're not really thinking about long term, uh, you know, could I possibly marry one of these women? For me, I wasn't. I was thinking, wow, this is amazing. We're having a great time with traveling the world. Uh, but once we spent that quality time together in Canada and then we, we were able to spend a little time off camera as well. Um, that's probably when the thoughts of like, I just really see myself with this girl. Um, and then we, we were able to spend a little time off camera as well. Um, um, that's probably when the thoughts of like, I just really see myself with this girl. forever started. Whenever I kind of admit to not going on the show for the right reasons, I always say,

Sean Lowe didn't go on the show for the right reasons. He admits it. Can you explain that? I mean, I looked at the show. So when the casting director first called me, I didn't know, I didn't know my sister had submitted the application. And I politely told her, like, no, thank you. Because I would never take part in a cheesy show like The Bachelor.

and I had this idea of any guy that would go on a reality show like The Bachelor must be a giant goose bag because that's not me. And then before I hung up the phone, she was like, well, just, you know, think about it because at the very least it could be a free vacation. So I was working at the time I hated. Go casting. Go cast. I go the following day to the job that I hated, you know, and I thought, well, a free vacation would be pretty cool. And so I totally did it for the vacation. I did it for the experience.

I just thought, you know, once in a lifetime type of thing. When I'm 50 years old, I can say I took part in this stupid reality TV show and got to travel the world, hopefully. Yeah, never imagining it would lead to a wife and three kids. But, you know, let me add to that while I'm thinking of it. The people who go on the show that are convinced they're going to get crazy. They're nuts. Yes.

Absolutely nuts. Absolutely. Sean, there's something else that I've always wanted to bring up to you. I think you changed The Bachelor in many ways. And I don't think there's one negative to how you change the Bachelor process. But there's one that I've always, that's always stood out to me. I remember watching your season. And there is this really controversial opening scene that really highlighted who you were as the Bachelor.

And it was just your abs. You're right. This may have been the turning point. It was the turning point. And, like, this is the biggest negative to me because now every single person that comes on this show, their abs are highlighted. Like, every single dude has that shot. They never had that shot with me. There's not one time in my whole season that they did a slow mo from my feet to my head.

And if they did, nobody was like, oh, holy cow. Sean, watching that back as a man who was a family man who didn't go on this show thinking that, you know, you would find love that kind of thought, hey, this could be. fun and then you have to watch a slow mo of your body being highlighted on national television how does that feel it's embarrassing it is oh whatever documenting how much are you kidding me i went on to that show with this like happy go lucky let's just have fun with it attitude and as you know ben you become friends with the producers and so the producers you're like hey let's get a shot of you taking a shower yeah sure why not it's so ridiculous and over the top

and I wish if I had filmed it today I probably would have said yeah can we not do that I throw on a shirt but for whatever reason I just went with it I was like yeah these are my buddies they say it's got to be harmless and fun let's do it yeah yeah it has changed the show forever I think that that shot has now been highlighted

every single time since then other than one season and that's season 20 Hey, before we get into life now, because I know there's a lot of cool things going on, I would love to spend a second talking about now advice, coming as a couple that is known, that is loved, that has came from the show. What advice do you have for your, like, for anybody listening that's in a relationship to tries to make this work? Have you been, do you have anything special to share?

Well, I think that the, I think that the society really, really. shines like a negative light on and like makes it fun like I was watching friends and their whole show is about failed relationships because of things that don't matter right so like oh she talks too fast you're like oh never mind I'm not going to marry that person I think that you take away the non-negotiables and that if that's what you're left with you can deal with the other stuff. And I think a lot of people are willing to give up something that could be great for things that don't matter. And I know that, you know, Sean and I are completely opposite people. And there's a lot of things that he could say, he could say about me, I don't want to be with you because you're

messy. Well, how ridiculous does that sound? So, like, I'm not perfect. Why would I put those expectations on a partner who could bring so much joy and challenge into my life and grow me spiritually and, you know, just be that partner for you. So I, my advice would be kind of know that you're not a perfect person and don't put those expectations on your partner. Solid advice. As for me, I would say, and I'm kind of echoing what she said, but if you're going to rely on an emotion, like I feel like I'm in love with this person, that will fail you because you're not going to feel like you love that person every day. Like marriage is hard. Relationships are hard. So you have to actively work and contribute to the relationship. And I have to look at

Catherine and realize like she has these needs over here that she really wants me to fill as her husband. And those don't come naturally to me. So I have to step out of my comfort zone and do what makes her happy. And I think that's so important. But so many times we get caught up in our emotions and life is all about emotions. Well, I mean, you cannot. be married for 50 years and just rely on that feeling of love. And then she also spoke on the spiritual component. I mean, for us, we know that we have a God that loves us. We know that we have a God that cares for us and is guiding us.

And that's our rock. So for those of you who maybe don't know that feeling, I certainly encourage you to check it out. No offense to Ben here. But, Sean, why do you think you're the only bachelor who ended up with the girl that You've chosen the end? No offense to Ben, of course. You know, when people talk about the low success rate of The Bachelor, I always come back with.

The low, pun intended. Yeah, I would think. I think the success rate is crazy high, giving the circus that you're thrown into. And then the expectation of making it work post-Bachelor, when you're being pulled in a million different directions most likely you don't live in the same city you know some person has to leave their family and their job and their friends behind like it is against you it is so incredibly difficult so the fact that how many people are married four or five whatever there's a lot of girls that's more than that from the main thing to me and i give all the credits katherine because she was

the person that left all of that stuff behind and uh she's she's amazing i think i just got really lucky no i well i disagree but stop that well i'm saying because the men have a harder time for multiple reasons for for many oh yes i agree with you on this the bachelorette success rate makes way more sense to me yes yes so i feel like if he's going to give me credit i got to give him credit because he could have easily said never mind buy i'm out pot girl over here in l.a that you know i don't know you that well like we didn't know each other very well he didn't have to stay with me. So again, it's that working hard for something that we know could be great.

And we both, we both did that. Just to backtrack a little bit and get into that season. Sean, how did the producers not exploit the fact that you were a born again virgin? Oh, God. You know, honestly, they never asked me about it. They never asked. They never asked one time. And, yeah, yeah, they knew I was a Christian and they knew I definitely had.

had, like, grounded, firm beliefs, but they never once asked me about it. I don't think it was until after the show, someone must have known I was a Christian and asked me something related to sex. And I answered it honestly, and then just that's all anyone could talk about. So I'm probably, Colton probably has me to blame for his whole season being focused on that because it's kind of annoying. It was at the time anyway. Oh, I know.

And then, Catherine, if you didn't think that you were the one for so long during the filming, who did you think he was going to pick? Oh, Leslie. I thought Leslie because they are very similar. And I'm, Leslie and I are very close. And so I was kind of matching him up to who I thought. He would like, blonde, hot, nice, has a really good family upbringing. She likes sports.

So I kind of put them, like, together. like obviously they would make sense and so i had it's actually kind of embarrassing there's a there's a part where she leaves where he he asked her to leave and everything about my um perspective on this whole process was shattered i was like if he doesn't like her how could you like me because i totally thought that they were a complete match and um once that happened i thought okay, if she hadn't left, I bet I would have ruled myself out and I probably would have sabotaged, sabotaged myself and not been for real. And so we talk about, Leslie and I talk about that. Like, if she didn't leave, I probably would not have been the one. I don't know.

Are you giving her lots of mommy advice now? I love her. And I mean, if she asks me, I will absolutely give it to her, but she's such a loving person. She has a wonderful family. So she knows I'm here for her. yeah we got to know her on winter games and then leslie actually came to honduras with me a few years ago so i got to spend a whole week with her there she's an incredible human okay to close up this chapter then shan why did you want to make it work with katherine with all the distractions going on around you you're off the bachelor at this point this is the secret sauce that i think everybody wants to know on why relationships sometimes don't work from this show what made you say know I'm in this for the long haul oh man that's a big question I would say one like me falling in love with her on the show was very real yes there were a lot of things I didn't know about her because you spent a limited amount of time together but the feeling of love was real I knew there was something very special about this woman and I knew that I just wanted that needed that

in my life forever and yeah it just came down to commitment at the end. And I made a lot of dumb choices that harmed our relationship. Dancing with the Stars being a big one. You know, we just got engaged. We're finally able to go out in public. And then I spend every day 12 hours a day dancing, like just not a smart decision. But I just wanted to make it work. And like I said, I give her most of the credit because she's been incredible throughout everything. But not throughout the whole thing. It wasn't a steady incredible. We definitely had our share of ups and downs in the beginning, no doubt about it, as anyone will, in those circumstances.

But, no, I just, I never wanted to let her go, ever. It was the, I mean, it was one of the big reasons that your relationship was one of the big reasons I didn't do Dancing with the Stars, because you talked about how difficult it was. Now, granted, it still didn't work out, but that's, you know. It's still a good call, though. I mean, it's unfair to the woman. Yeah. Catherine was so excited just to be public and...

Hold your hand. That's why I just wanted to hold his hand. Yeah, you're in hiding for so long and finally we're in public. And then I just, you know, I'm going to, my defense is ignorance. I didn't know what I was getting myself into. I didn't know the time commitments. But, yeah, looking back at it, it was super unfair to her. Well, and it's an exciting time.

Like, it's a fun time. Like, Sean, you're getting opportunities thrown at you that you, you know, a year before that would have never even imagine. ever having come your way. Well, yeah, that was exactly my mentality because I'm still thinking, just like on the Bachelor, hey, once in a lifetime opportunity, and I still see myself as this guy that was working this job that sucks. And then you have Dancing with the Stars saying, hey, come do something absolutely ridiculous

and we'll pay you a lot of money to do it. Of course, no-brainer. But I didn't really consider her feelings or how it would all play out. Were you telling him not to do it, or did you think it would be fine? I think I had a my insecurities chat back in like who's your partner and you're spending how many hours with someone that's like very attractive and you're doing sensual things like what um but I think again both of us were naive to the fact that it took way more time than um than what was proposed I guess and she stole my dancing and she saw that there was nothing sensual about it. That was another worry. Yeah, you guys weren't married yet. That's hilarious.

That was the concern. Well, hey, I think I speak on behalf of all of Bachelor Nation and saying that we're glad you guys made it through. Your story is one to be admired. Now, we're going to take a quick break. When we come back, we want to talk about life now, what you're up to, what you're doing, what the kids are up to. We'll come back on the in-depth podcast with Sean and Catherine. boyfriend's professor is way too friendly, and now I'm seriously suspicious. Oh, wait a minute, Sam, maybe her boyfriend's just looking for extra credit.

Well, Dakota, it's back to school week on the OK Storytime podcast, so we'll find out soon. This person writes, my boyfriend has been hanging out with his young professor a lot. He doesn't think it's a problem, but I don't trust her. Now, he's insisting we get to know each other, but I just want her gone. Now, hold up. Isn't that against school policy? That sounds totally inappropriate. Well, according to this person, this is her boyfriend's former professor, and they're the same age.

And it's even more likely that they're cheating. He insists there's nothing between them. I mean, do you believe him? Well, he's certainly trying to get this person to believe him because he now wants them both to meet. So, do we find out if this person's boyfriend really cheated with his professor or not? To hear the explosive finale, listen to the OK Storytime podcast on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

Hi, my name is Enya Yumanzor. And I'm Drew Phillips. And we run a podcast called Emergency Intercom. If you're a crime junkie and you love crimes, we're not the podcast for you. But if you have unmedicated ADHD... Oh my God, perfect. And want to hear people with mental illness, psychobabble. Yes, yes.

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It turns out that nearly 50% of men think that they could land the plane with the help of air traffic control. And they're saying like, okay, pull this, until this. Do this, pull that, turn this. It's just, I can do my eyes close. I'm Manny. I'm Noah. This is Devin.

And on our new show, no such thing. We get to the bottom of questions like these. Join us as we talk to the leading expert on overconfidence. Those who lack expertise lack the expertise they need to recognize that they lack expertise. And then, as we try the whole thing out for real. Wait, what?

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I'm from a very rural background myself. My dad is a farmer. and my mom is a cousin, so like, it's not, like... What do you get when a true crime producer walks into a comedy club? I know it sounds like the start of a bad joke, but that really was my reality nine years ago. I just normally do straight stand-up, but this is a bit different.

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Listen to Wisecrack on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. So would you guys say, that dancing with the stars, that period of your relationship was the most difficult? I think there was two parts of it. It was that, and then we got over that hump,

and then literally right after the show ended, and we could be ourselves, it was amazing, because that's when our relationship really could start. We watched Breaking Bad until 2 in the morning and had Thai food and would wake up whenever we wanted. I mean, it was awesome. That's exactly what we wanted,

but it took so long to get there. And then the first year of marriage is really, really hard for us. Just there's so many factors that are that are thrown at us. So I think those two were super challenging. So you guys were on Wife Swap and Marriage Boot Camp early on in your relationship. Now, I know by reading fan comments that they love to think that those issues and that are highlighted on those shows are real issues. But those shows, in my opinion, are so pretty. and so toxic to a relationship.

How do you guys think back on those times and those decisions horribly? And I always like to use that as the perfect example when people ask me like, is the Bachelor real? Like how manipulated are you on The Bachelor? I'm like, The Bachelor is like the most authentic reality show there is because there are other reality shows like those two that that just they're not real they're just not they're just clownish well I think that they were hard for different reasons I think that marriage boot camp would actually made us as a couple stronger um and spiritually because we were very connected in that

moment like wow it's us and then it's like everybody else and then a wife swap I mean it was just ridiculous I don't iron his underwear I don't never ironed anything life. I mean, it's just ridiculous. It was, I mean. But it was a challenge for other reasons. If we're being 100% honest, it was a money grab. Of course. Hey, shoot this for a week and we'll pay you a big check. And we went to do with Jason and Molly and we felt comfortable.

But like after those two, because they were stacked, like right back to back. After that, we're like, we're being more discerning. This is not okay. Like, this is not very healthy at all. I was in like, I had a very bad eating thing at marriage boot camp because I was so. stressed out constantly like I lost so much weight because it just was and it was not that show was a circus. It was so bad and like we ended up having friends from it but like it was two weeks in a house and being completely uncomfortable. Jared and I were sort of like they were kind of asked

us to do it last year. It was never a firm offer but they did give us a number and we were just like can we respond to every fan that DMs us or tweets us about this show? I did it for the money. We did it for the money. You would have done it for the money. It's also for the cast that you get. So like, um, Rihina, Trista. Trista and Ryan did it.

And he had a wonderful cast. And those people seemed more aligned with them. The people that we went on with, it just, it wasn't the same as us. It just wasn't something that we could really relate to. So it was definitely more of a challenge for us. Is it as much of a challenge as parenthood? No. No, that one.

Because there's love in it. You can see the fruits of your labor. Like truly, you see this child who's trying to speak and who's giving you a kiss and waking up with I love you mommy. Like all of this hard stuff is worth it with kids. Yeah, parenthood is absolutely crazy. And a lot of times you just want to drive your car off the cliff. But at the end of the day, you kind of love the kids.

So it's all worth it. Sean, you did a post on Instagram recently, and it made me laugh because it's something that Jared and I talk about all the time. You said that you love, you know, Ellie the dog and your daughter equally because that's how you should treat your children. You spoke to Ashley. It spoke to me because we like really are confused how we're going to love something more than our dog. And this happens, apparently. So I have Ellie and then we have. had a boxer that we lost a few years ago. My dogs were my life for so long. And everyone said,

as soon as you have kids, your dog's going to take a back seat. Yeah. I thought in my head, that's not true. And you know what? And they were all liars because it's not true. Ellie hasn't taken a back seat for nobody. Good. I love that dog. And I give her more affection now just because I feel guilty that I brought three other animals in this house. It's, uh, this is, this is the best so in your relationship then as parents who plays bad cop who plays good cop i'm probably more bad cop yeah i'll dish it out every once a while but she's primarily bad cop i'm way stricter and he what's funny is i think it was like the second day in our engagement um we're in thailand and we're with the producers and we're just trying to be normal

and talk about things like i wasn't able to talk about wedding and marriage and kids until i knew that he like actually felt the same way about me so I didn't actually be but um I think it was the second day and he said you know that you're going to be the disciplinarian right and I thought one like I still had that actually I still had that really weird like oh my gosh this guy is like looking at me um feeling he's telling me he's gonna be I'm gonna be a disciplinarian one day like I was so excited I was like curved it a little bit like okay but I knew I would be the disciplinarian because he just kind of wanted to be the fun like oh I want my kids for just like come up and hug me and be so happy to see me and all these things and I knew that I would be happy

to be the strict hand and that's kind of how it's gone for the most part but he does his share the uh parenthood has to be weird I mean I can't imagine the life like the seasons of life that you guys have been in the last 10 years is something that I don't know if anybody can relate with how much of the bachelor still influences your life today a lot I would say I would only say a lot because the Bachelor kind of evolved into this weird Instagram world we're into, which we're still very active doing that stuff. And so the people that watched us on TV eight years ago are still kind of following along with our lives today via Instagram.

So I'd say a lot. Yeah. I mean, we love that. And you guys both know, you guys were loved. But I'm like, you can see how people really want to support you. And so we've been blessed with the most amazing, supportive, motivating. genuinely loving people that witness us. And we also have some level of discernment there, too.

What do we want to share? What seems like something that would not be okay to share for all these reasons? Because we respect them. And it's been genuine. Obviously, like, everything that we do has been very authentic to us, but some obviously outwires like those shows. What? Can you talk to me about, like, the first year of parents?

and how that is a strain on a couple's marriage? I think it brought us closer. Or did it bring you closer? Okay, because I experienced two different things based on two different couples. Whenever I ask my parents, they're like, it was the best year of our marriage. Yeah, I think it brought us closer. When it was just the two of us in a house, both working from home, she focused all her energy on me. Oh, I was obsessed.

Good or bad. And upset, yeah. So, when we got us, we had us. Samuel into the picture. I don't know. It was really cool to witness her as a mom and to see all this love that she that she showed me. She shows even more so to our children. And I love to witness that as her husband and as their father. But yeah, I don't think it was all that hard for us. Yeah, I don't think so. I think we get pretty well. And we like to, we're not type A people at all. And I think that the type A people might have had a harder time because

you bring your experiences into parenthood and you bring your traditions and the way that you like I wanted to do cloth diapers and he was like why would you do that and like why would you do that so anyway there's there are lots of things that you can bring in that could hurt um if you're degrading the other words like oh why would you're like continually saying well I wouldn't do it like that but for us we didn't really have like a specific way we wanted to do everything and routine all the stuff we were really experiencing it together which was super exciting and we were we didn't know what we were doing and so it was really exciting for us to to go through everything and we felt everything and we were present and we said

like this sucks together but we were saying this is great together so I think it was just a really fun time for us and it still continued to be because we are best friends we work really well together. And we're just great partners, I think. Yeah. That's awesome. Something else you're a great team at great partners at is your Nutrisystem plan. Can you tell us a little about about the eating plan that you guys have? Yeah. So I feel like for the last four years, five years, really, I've been pregnant and had babies. Like it's just been a nonstop cycle of I'm now done breastfeeding. Oh, I'm pregnant again. Like it's just a constant. So like my body has gone through it.

And after like seven months of having a baby, like Mia, the last baby, it was just like, I'm too comfortable and quarantine and all these things. I'm like, I need to lose my weight so that I could feel more confident. I could be more present with my kids and not have the insecurities that I do. So like NutriSystem has this really good plan. It's a partner plan that Sean has always been a really good partner to me. and with eating with working out with parenting everything so it felt super natural to have him be my accountability partner in my nutrition system plan because he knew that I wasn't feeling comfortable

so I've lost six pounds with literally doing nothing for the last month of just eating nutrition and feeling really good about their meals and because my issue is forgetting to eat and then gorging and like because I want to make a meal and I want to make a big thing about it but I don't have the time. So it's super, super easy for me to just go and grab a Nutra System, like meal or shake or snack and have my metabolism not go down the crapper. So it's been a really, really good meal plan for me because of the life stage that I'm in and having a partner that's wanting to do it with me.

And we just talk about the meals together. It's really fun because I'm like, oh, what did you like? I'll order it for you again. and it's something where I don't feel alone in it. What a... And I'm a dude. I'm a dude who doesn't like cooking, so it's really easy to pop up with my own.

And it's also nice because, like, as a girl, like I don't know if Sean's like this, Catherine, but I'll be like, Jared, what's you on for dinner? He'd be like, I don't care. I'm good with anything. I'm like, are there something specific that you're craving? Yeah, whatever you want. It's like, okay, so just stick it.

in the microwave you deal yeah neutral system's great i gained like 20 pounds during the first few months of covid and finally i just reached a point where it's like okay i better i better buckle down here so i got a sweet tooth too they got a ton of desserts that are great and low calories it's just an easy way to you know eat healthy well you guys are obviously great accountability partners to each other in in life in parenthood when it comes to dieting and exercise uh to close out this this whole thing Ashley always has a really fun game that she plays with our guests. But before we do, I like to do two things with you. One is ask you one final question and then give you the stage for a second.

But my last final question for you is for anybody out there listening who doesn't get the following on Instagram. Can you just take a few minutes here and explain your kids to the listeners one by one? Oh, man. Yeah. Are we doing this together? Is it a joint venture? I'd say a joint venture. I know you guys are busy.

I know you don't have a lot of time left, so I want to make sure that we get this in. Okay. So Samuel is extremely intelligent. He's very sensitive. He is beyond obsessed with animals. From day one, he's only cared about animals and not like in a, in like a fun, like silly way. It's like a very focused. He reads an encyclopedia of animals every single day.

Like that's his, that's what he wants to do. Like we're like, okay, it's quiet time. He sits in his room and lines up his animals and says, this is like the sea. And so then he brings them and he's like, this animal does this. He eats this. He's not the same as this. So he is very intentional on his animals. And it's been a really, really cool thing because he challenges us on that.

Like he knows that sometimes we get it wrong. Obsessed with Samuel, super sensitive, so loving, so friendly. He's never met a stranger. He crawls in bed with us every morning. around 4 a.m. Yeah, you don't even realize he's in it until you roll over and you roll into him. But he's just the sweetest kid.

He always says, Daddy, you're the best daddy. I love you, Daddy. Like just a very, very sweet, mild-mannered kid, which is awesome. Yeah, he's very sweet. No, Isaiah. Isaiah is more of a brute. He doesn't speak so much,

but he's really, really trying. I would say that sometimes, And sometimes I post this on Instagram where Samuel has this wealth of knowledge about things. And he loves to share it with us. And so there's Samuel saying like eucyphalus, there's a type of dinosaur. Eupilcephalus. And then Isaiah's around here like this. Like he's like so proud of himself doing something ridiculous and not impressive whatsoever.

But he's so proud of himself. He's so sweet. He's so happy all the time. Yeah. You wake him up from a nap. A lot of kids will go crazy when you wake him up. Always happy. Always smiling.

So happy. Love him. They're always kissing her. He's very tender and very gentle with her, although he'll, like, run into something and hit his head and laugh about it. That's amazing. He has this very, like, a very dichotomous relationship with himself. Like, just, I'm going to go run into something in the wall, laugh about it,

and then go really sweetly and kindly toneable to him of his green kisser. He wants to do everything is big. brother does um and his favorite food is soup which makes no sense yeah whose favorite food is soup only ones with soup okay now me and then Mia Mia is such a wonderful baby she is so happy she's around chaos constantly because her two older brothers are acting like two toddler boys um she is she I think she's going to be very decisive she's very particular she'll tell you what she likes and what she doesn't like which is very different from the boys at that age. Loves her daddy.

Loves her daddy. She's definitely going to say daddy first. And yeah, she's up for anything. She has gone a long time without having naps and having the right schedule because her brothers and all the things that we do interrupt her. But she's always happy and we cannot wait to see what type of person she grows. And she'll be tough, but she will be loved. That's beautiful. That's beautiful. Well, hey, thank you for sharing all of this. Ashley has 30 seconds of rapid fire. I have one final close out for you guys. We have one minute left. Ashley, take it away. Okay. You talk about how ice cream determines a person's personality. What is your favorite ice creams and what does that mean about you? Cookies and cream. It means he's kind of just like a guy's guy in my research. I see this.

And mine is, I love vegan ice cream. Like, it sounds lame, but I really don't like ice cream unless it's vegan. That means you're from Seattle. Yeah, or it means you don't want to have some digestive issues afterward. That's true. She does get that. As I get older, I can't handle ice cream anymore. It's being ridiculous.

Okay, next question. Going off of that, has there ever been, been a tweet or something that Sean has put out about your family where he's very sarcastic about it that you actually were like that crossed the line? I think there was one that I was like, you need to take that down. I can't remember what it was. But he usually, if it's like skirting a line, he'll check with me first. Um, it's okay. And I'll usually say, yeah, that's dumb, but whatever. Um, but he gets so much like praise for his tweets and his Instagram. I kind of like to deflate his...

I've been off for a while now. Why have you been off Twitter? Because it's toxic and it's absolutely depressing, getting on there and just reading people yelling at each other. I was over it. I would like to get back on just to tell my little dad jokes. But maybe I need to be one of those weird people that don't follow anyone just because I don't want to read the BS.

Yeah. So write my little jokes. I was looking through your Twitter last night to do this interview. I was like, I have been without Sean Tweet, Sean Lowe tweets since June, and I hadn't realized it until now. That bad. You didn't even notice. So you're fine. Okay. Last question is, what is your favorite piece of furniture from your Wayfair line? Oh, thank you for asking. Oh, gosh, there's so many. Well, the OG is our pit, the Chelsea. But I like the Veda. That's mine. I like the Veda.

Yeah. I would have to say the Chelsea sectional, which we've deemed the pit. It's huge, just like 8 feet by 8 feet. And it was kind of the piece that launched our business. And, you know, four years later, we're so proud of what we've built. So it's kind of cool to look back. It started with that one piece. And now we've got an entire collection. But if you like to nap, the lux is like the absolute. Yeah. They're all big, oversized, super comfy. Check them out. They're really nice. I was looking at the collection last night. Thank you. Well, hey, Catherine and Sean. We know you're busy. We know you've got to go. Final thing to close out a five-second message to anybody listening of encouragement that you guys want to pass on to any listeners. Yeah. Oh, man. I'm starting.

I always say, oh, gosh. Okay, I'm going to start preaching. James 414 says life is but a vapor. This crazy world we live in will be gone in a blink of an eye. Your life is not that long in terms of eternity. So let's start looking at things from an evening. eternal perspective, love your neighbor. That's good one.

I feel like just, I think people don't know how love they are and how capable they are of doing things. So if you're scared about doing something or you feel alone, just know that you're loved and you're capable. You guys are great. Hey, follow along with Ashley and I. This has been Sean and Catherine on the In-Death podcast. We appreciate them a lot.

We celebrate them as a family. Follow along with my league guys. Okay. You'll get it. It's easy. With that, I've been Ben. I've been Ashley. For Shawna and Catherine.

Yeah, it works. Hey, we'll talk to you later, guys. That's great. Follow the Ben and Ashley I, almost famous podcasts on IHeart Radio, or subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts. My boyfriend's professor is way too friendly, and now I'm seriously suspicious. Wait a minute, Sam. Maybe her boyfriend's just looking for extra credit. Well, Dakota, luckily, it's back to school week on the OK Storytime podcast, so we'll find out soon.

This person writes, my boyfriend's been hanging out with his young professor a lot. He doesn't think it's a problem, but I don't trust her. Now he's insisting we get to know each other, but I just want or gone. Hold up. Isn't that against school policy? That seems inappropriate. Maybe find out how it ends by listening to the OK Storytime podcast and the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, my name is Enya Umanzor. And I'm Drew Phillips. And we run a podcast called Emergency Intercom.

If you're a crime junkie and you love crimes, we're not the podcast for you. But if you have unmedicated ADHD... Oh my God, perfect. And want to hear people with mental illness, psychobabble. Yes, yes. Then Emergency Intercom is the podcast for you. Open your free IHeartRadio app. Search Emergency Intercom and listen now.

Why are TSA rules so confusing? You got a hood of you. I'll take it all! I'm Manny. I'm Noah. This is Devin. And we're best friends and journalists with a new podcast called No Such Thing, where we get to the bottom of questions like, like that. Why are you screaming at me? I can't expect what to do. Now, if the rule was the same,

go off on me. I deserve it. You know, lock him up. Listen to no such thing on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. No such thing. I'm Dr. Joy Harden Bradford, host of the Therapy for Black Girls podcast. I know how overwhelming it can feel if flying makes you anxious. In session 418 of the Therapy for Black Girls podcast, Dr. Angela Neal before Nett and I discuss flight anxiety. What is non-norm is to allow it to prevent you from doing the things that you want to do, the things that you were meant to do. Listen to Therapy for Black Girls on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

Your entire identity has been fabricated. Your beloved brother goes missing without a trace. You discover the depths of your mother's illness. I'm Danny Shapiro. And these are just a few of the powerful stories I'll be made. mining on our upcoming 12th season of Family Secrets. We continue to be moved and inspired by our guests and their courageously told stories. Listen to Family Secrets Season 12 on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

This is an IHeart podcast.