The Ben and Ashley I Almost Famous Podcast - Almost Famous: In Depth - Shawn Booth

Episode Date: January 27, 2019

Shawn Booth joins Ben and Ashley on this episode of Almost Famous: In Depth. He opens up about the painful moments since his relationship ended, and the questions that are still left on his mind. Ben and Ashley offer a unique perspective to Shawn’s situation, because Ben and Shawn are friends from their first experience on The Bachelorette, and Ashley is close with Kaitlyn from their time shared on the show.  Together, they help Shawn understand his feelings, get some things off his chest, and move forward. Also in this episode, Ben and Ashley have an honest conversation about an important issue that has come up in The Bachelor, in one of the most emotional moments of the entire franchise. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is Ben and Ashley I almost famous in depth. Is that me talking? No, that's Mark. Oh, it's neither of us. That's a guy in Miles who works here at Eye Heart Radio. No way. It sounds just like you. Well, thank you.

He's our professional voice. We, uh, if for anybody out there listening, this is, uh, the second episode of In Depth, uh, with Ashley Ikenetti and myself. We have a very special guest. We've been promising you, I don't know, the last month. Uh, Sean Booth is in studio with us right now. Sean, thanks for joining us. Thanks for having me.

It's good to be back. And just a reminder, in depth, and Sean, I'll tell you this as well. In depth was something that we created with IHeart because Ashley and I realize that almost famous is, is incredible, right? We get to break down the episodes. We get to talk about what's happening in Bachelor Nation. But oftentimes these Bachelor contestants kind of come and go and we don't ever get to know them. Like we actually never get to know them. It just happens and they're gone and we're on the next season.

In-depth is meant to pull back some of Bachelor Nation's favorites. into studio and just say, you know, what's up now? Who were you before the show? How did the show affect you? And then what is life looking like, you know, now as we look forward? You're obviously somebody that everybody's very excited to talk about and have been talking about because, unfortunately, a situation in your life that has been, I would say, not ideal.

So you're the perfect person to bring into studio. Yes. And, you know, Ash and I, this is something. And Sean, I know we got to talk about it a little bit before. There is no desire in your heart. And for anybody out there listening to bash Caitlin. And it's not our desire to bash Caitlin. This is not a bash Caitlin podcast.

This is a let's get to know Sean podcast. And so anybody out there listening, this whole episode is going to be just allowing Sean the place to speak truth, to speak from his heart. And Ashley and I just want to listen. Perfect. Let's do it. I want to do a lot more listening. I feel like a little bit awkward if I can like be honest right now. I'm friends with Caitlin.

I've met Sean a couple times and you're so wonderful and all the times that I've met you. That's the awkward thing about breakups in general. It's like you have all these friends, right? And then as soon as you break up, it's like, well, you kind of lose friends too because people kind of choose sides, I guess, which is, I don't know, unfair is the word. But I can understand it, but you'll start noticing that people don't talk to you anymore. or it's uh that's just one of the tough things about breaking up yeah so and i know you guys are close so like ben was saying we're not trying to make this a bash katelyn things just just good at no shan talking yeah yeah let's just talk about sean let's make it lighthearted and

fun for now and then we can ease into the you're right and it is and and just to let everybody this is a weird situation i mean right like i don't think it's it's crazy for you actually to say i feel awkward i feel awkward i think we felt awkward dancing you know around my brain breakup. For seven months, it kind of felt like it was always like being brought up or emails are being brought in. Yeah. You know, your breakup. Obviously, you know, we danced around that for a while after Winter Games. Sean, what do you have to say about that? What part of The Bachelor has not been awkward since we've all gone on that show. I think there have been many, many awkward situations since day one. Yeah. So feeling awkward just is what we accept. We're just so

used to it now it really doesn't face me i can like actually say to somebody's face so i feel awkward right yeah um actually i have a job for you to do uh you did it great last time the fans love it as we're talking today i need you we're going to end this episode with a rapid fire question round for sean again uh and i need you to start forming those as we're going here okay sounds fantastic so if you hear her writing and and plugging away it's because she's got a job to do and uh as as ashley's researching and writing sean we met on night one, and I think that's always a really fun story for me to tell. And then let's, I would love for you to remind all of our listeners how we met and then

what that first night entering into this whole new world felt like to you. Yeah, so that's one of the cool experiences about going on that show is you've formed these lifelong friendships. And I think just going through his breakup, I try to look at some of the pros that have come out of it. And I think me and you've been able to talk more and connect more, which I look at that as a good thing. But, yeah, we met night one.

We were in the same limo. It was me, you, Ryan McDill. I do know that. Ian. Josh Albers. Ian, he was a pleasure. He was five people. He's come and go fast.

Right? It was five people, I think. Yeah. Yeah. So we met and we kind of connected right off the bat since night one. And then we were roommates all the way up until, I think, eighth, ninth week of the show. and we had to split up into our final three. But we were very supportive of one another,

which is also another thing that people find tough to believe in your date in somebody, but then you have to rely on your friends in the house to kind of help you get through things. So me and Ben were always really close since night one. It was, you know, Ashley brings it up now and then because Ashley found love from Caitlin's season. Jared.

Can I say an interesting statistic right now? Yeah. Caitlin's entire top four have been engaged through the show and Jared is the only one that's remained sorry guys that is actually kind of interesting it is interesting right

oh I have another interesting stat did I say it on the podcast the other day yeah I did there are more bachelors married to the runner up than there are their first pick so it was Sean Nick Ben and Jared they were the top four of Caitlin's isn't

yeah Tanner is also on that season but he wasn't the top four but he's engaged in the So you're saying, real quick, this isn't where I want to go too far deep into. Sorry. To bring up that awkward step. No, it's actually very interesting. You're saying there's more Bachelorette's married to their runner-up? One bachelor.

So it would be Jason Mesnick and Ari both ended up marrying their runner-up. Wow. Oh, boy. And then Sean Lowe is the only one married to his mother. That's kind of weird. Yeah, so we meet on night one. And Ashley, I think you'll know this about me, right? I felt really comforted by being friends with Sean

because you look around the room, you're like, Sean's the cool guy in the room, right? Like, he stood out. And so the fact that Sean and I were friends, I remember going, I'll be okay because somehow the coolest guy in the room likes me. Does that make sense? I will say Sean definitely puts out those vibes. Yeah.

Thank you, guys. I remember night one as Ben being very shy, and he was nervous the whole night. about his entrance and he sat down on the couch and all night he was kind of kicking himself saying that he thought he'd messed up. What'd you do? I did mess up. I think everybody would say I literally got it up doing all right for yourself. I got a limo and I was like, because it was back when there's two bachelorettes. And I went to Britt and I was like, I hear you like to help kids. I like to help kids too. Oh, Lord. No context. No context. I walked over to kids.

You like kids. We should get married. I walked over to Caitlin and I couldn't get my words out like I froze like I couldn't speak and I just said it's nice to meet you all see inside and I just walked inside and I went inside and I sat on the couch as like oh man like this could not have gone worse one girl thinks I'm creepy the other girl like hasn't heard me talk yet did you know who you're going to go vote for going into that season I didn't know we were voting I don't think we knew that there would be a vote off I thought they would both be the bachelorette up until the moment they said hey you're right yeah which one were you more interested in going into the show

I think Britt and I had more in common but I think Caitlin definitely had the bigger personality and so that's why we did that but it's true like you know Sean just has this charisma about him the guys know it Jared has mentioned it Jared definitely has like

he's not intimidated by you but he does think of you very highly in the same way like oh he's the cool one you were definitely the one that he always was like nope that guy's way better than you and bad it's not true and I think very highly scared and I do miss that guy and miss all you guys so you know that is a good place and to kind of look back because we want to get to know you a little bit

so you walk on the show as the cool guy people perceive that you might not feel that about yourself but that's what people perceived you guys what was your life like before the show what were you doing what led up to that moment that you said I'm going to go on this show and then I want you within this Sean because I do remember this as I was prepping for this to talk about the story of your tooth leading up to the first night. What? I forget. He chipped it.

I did chip it. Yes. All right. Yeah, so leading up to the show, I was living in Nashville, Tennessee, and I kind of made this big move in my life about three years prior to the show. I've always been a small town guy. I grew up in Connecticut. Went to school up in New Hampshire and then started work in insurance out of college.

And I've always been in athletics and played sports my whole life and played soccer in college. And I really got into fitness. So I was doing that on the side. I moved around from Wisconsin to Michigan, back to Connecticut. And then I was just at this point in my life where I really just wanted more. I wanted to make a change. I wanted to kind of see what was out there.

So I went on a guy's weekend to Nashville, Tennessee. And I got back on the plane. And I told my buddies that I was going to sell my house once I got back to Connecticut and moved down there. So I did that. I moved down there by myself. And then I was there for a year or two. and then one thing led to another ended up at the Bachelor Mansion. How did you apply for the show?

So I was introduced to a couple buddies down in Nashville, and we had went out to a honky tonk on Broadway, and they were doing casting for The Bachelor. And a buddy of mine, he was on the show with Andy for one episode, so he wanted to go say hi to the producer there and once they found out that the bachelor was casting and we're like oh this is cool this bar is filled with a lot of women it was like a Tuesday night and we drank and then I met with one of the recruiting ladies I didn't interview they wanted me to do the interview there and I was like I'll pass on that it was like midnight and I wasn't quite sure about that and then I'm months down the road she ended up getting my information from my buddy and then she said she's coming to Nashville and wanted to meet with me in a hotel

and obviously they're saying hey we hit the jackpot with Sean so Sean you've been told now at this point in the story that you're going on the show you're leading up to the show you choose to still go out and drink on a night you tip back a beer yeah and chip your tooth what three days before leaving for the show yeah it was something real close to the show I had a beer up to my mouth, a glass bottle, probably Mikulab Ultra, and got hit by this girl and chipped my tooth. And I went to the dentist, and they said it was going to take about a week or so to get it fixed.

I said, that's not going to be right. And they're like, well, it's just going to take a few days. We can't fix this. And I was like, you don't understand. And I didn't want to tell a lot of people. And I wasn't like, hey, I'm going on the show. And then I finally told him, like, hey, listen, I've got a really big event coming up. Kind of, it's going to be on TV.

There's a lot of people that are going to see it. And what can you do to help me out? So they are like, oh, we got to get this guy a new tooth. Good. And I mean, you know, we've talked about it all the time, but obviously that first night, you kind of look around, you know whose lives are going to be changed from the show. I think most of us looked around at Sean and said, that's a guy whose life is no matter what going to be changed. That's interesting because I thought the same thing about Caitlin. It was Caitlin and Britt, actually.

Those are the two girls that are like, they're going far. Why was that? What stood out to you about them? Caitlin, it was because she wasn't afraid to say anything, and I did think she was so pretty. And then with Britt, she was just that feminine beauty. Yeah. You know, Sean, it does feel weird.

And I don't, at any point, if you were, like, pulling back, and I don't want to even talk about that. It's fine. But it does feel weird to talk about Caitlin right now. But we're going to get into, you know, what's happened and allow you to tell your, just where you're at today here in a second. But going into night one,

I remember sitting that limo, and you were confident that she was something special, right? I remember you looking at me and saying, that girl's got something that I desire. Oh, wait, what about that Snapchat? Like, were you watching our season, the Crystal season, for the one that you'd want to be the Bachelorette? And then you said, I'm coming for you, Caitlin,

with the heart on Snapchat. And that's, like, infamous. Now all the guys that are up for the next season do that. Yeah. Did you feel something through the TV even? Mm-hmm. Yeah, I did. I, uh, was, Sean takes a second here.

I remember, um, I don't know. I remember that. What was our very first episode of Almost Famous was the week that Lauren and I broke up? Mm-hmm. You remember that? And how brutal that was. Mm-hmm. I mean, I remember.

I mean, we did the very first episode of this. show the week that we broke up you put on a serious facade and it was it was really hard but i will say with all that um there is this level i don't know man your your life here in the last couple weeks has been very public on some of this i would imagine i don't want to speak one of the hardest things you've ever been through and um and it feels weird just kind of sitting back watching it right you know yeah i mean i've kind of um just tried to ignore it i guess going through a breakup is pretty difficult uh to begin with and then um throwing it out there in front of everybody to see makes it that much uh harder but that's kind of what we signed up for you've been through it

you've been through it um so i'm just trying to figure it all out and uh sit with my emotions and and figure out what I'm feeling and, you know, I think the old Sean would have just kind of ignored everything and been like, all right, I'm just going to ignore this and I'm all right, but now I think I get a little bit older. I'm trying to, you know, figure out what hurts, why it hurts, and kind of work through it. So the past few months I've been working hard at it

and just looking at it from all different angles. So it's, yeah, it's tough. What are some of the questions that kind of come into? your mind then as you are processing this like what is some of the stuff you're starting to ask yourself um well i think that the hardest part about going through a breakup is um you know not only did i um yeah we didn't take a break Sean before he took a break I asked you you know what are some of these questions that you've been asking yourself you mentioned that you ask yourself these questions is, you know, the breakups now happen and you kind of look back

on these last couple years. Right. What are some of those questions? Um, I think just going through the normal human emotions with any breakup and, um, looking at it from all different angles, you know, first, obviously, you know, there's the heartbreak and pain and, um, which I think is normal with anybody going through a breakup. Um, so, um, um, just trying to, I guess figure out, um, um i guess not why but um trying to understand things right now but um i guess this goes with her new relationship too just kind of makes me question everything um that we've had so i think that's one of the major questions that runs through my mind um just trying to understand that which i think is tough to understand but so i asked myself those questions um

and but then there's a part of me that is you know I do care about her so I am happy that she doesn't have to really I guess deal with maybe all the pain and the and the heartbreak as it seems like she's moved on and she's happy so it does kind of make me a little more comfortable knowing that that you're not at home at our empty house so I look at it from that point of view and then I also think that it's helping me to move on because it does hurt that much, but seeing everything, it does, you know, upset me and it does make me a little angry, but it also helps me to move on knowing that maybe we weren't right for each other and that I will find somebody down the road that will also make me happy. When do you think it started falling apart?

I mean, we had a tough go right out of the gates, I think. I think everybody knows that. It was a pretty dramatic season. Probably one of the more dramatic seasons. But, yeah, I'm not going to lie and sugarcoat it and say, yeah, it was all, you know, roses right out of the gates. I mean, I think we started having a tough time with our relationship in, like, the second week of the season. We went through all different types of ups and downs. And I remember even talking to Todd Snyder, producer, who I was really close with.

He's like, I've never seen somebody go through so many ups and downs on the show in a relationship. Because it was always push and pull, push and pull. Like we were going through some serious stuff on the show. And then obviously, once we're engaged and we're able to announce that we're together, we're happy, we're excited. And then you still have to deal with other issues. And it's always like, yeah, I had a tough time on that show. It was always a battle of my heart versus my brain, right? And I think the whole Nick situation was a big part of our relationship.

Would you say you never got over the next situation? Yeah, I think it's always something that was in the back of my mind. Yeah, it was tough. And that's where I say it's always a. trying to figure out what my brain feels versus my heart my brain tells me I'm on the bachelorette this happens I remember saying that to all the producers like I remember them being like why aren't you so mad why don't you want to run out of here why don't you want to go punch a wall like aren't you furious and I'm like I'm on the bachelorette like this this stuff

happens she's not completely committed to me versus my heart being like damn that really hurts. And then not only that, but then having to deal with that everywhere after the show and everywhere we went. And that was always a big topic. And that was one of the major storylines of our season, I think. I think if people were a look back at that season, they would remember the me and Nick, I guess, feud and what happened with that. So yeah, I mean, it's tough. I think anybody can agree with that that having to uh you know go through your engagement and you're together but still dealing with the past and it being thrown in your faces everywhere because that was like a a powerful thing right because i wanted to support her as um you know

being a female and being able to do what she wants and um so she received a lot of good press for that right and then a lot of hate for that as well but i mean it was every magazine every news I remember coming home from my apartment, like walking in and seeing it on Jimmy Kimmel, like making jokes about it, or going to the grocery store and seeing it on the cover of a magazine or going out somewhere in public and somebody saying something to me. So it was literally everywhere. And that's just, I think, normal to have those feelings when you are engaged to somebody. It wasn't easy.

Well, and not just engaged. I think this is a good example of when reality television becomes real life. And you're not just engaged with Caitlin, you love Caitlin. And so you're in love with somebody who is also, and I know Lauren dealt with this, you know, and it sucks. And there's no, but like you're in love with somebody who is still being put on magazines talking about other people. Right. You're watching them kiss other people. You're watching them express feelings for other people.

And I think for you, you cared about her. I mean, there is zero question in my mind from night one to the. the very end that you were all in on her like i was figuring it out right like i was still trying to figure out what what kately was to me a friend uh you know a good you know pal or if i was really pursuing her for for life or not you from day one said no that's that's somebody i'm interested in and so your heart was on the line the whole time yeah i mean it was it's always been tough for me to open up and uh for me to trust people in general and so i kind of just told myself going on that show the only way this thing is going to work is if I, you know, fully open up and treat this as a normal relationship.

And that world is anything but normal. And you guys know that. And you can try and treat it like a regular relationship, but it's not at all. Like, I'll come back home or I'll be waiting like, I remember we had such a good relationship. and we'd talk about Caitlin, but it got to the point where there was just four of us left, and we were still in the same room. And, like, I'd be laying in bed, and then you'd come home at, like, one or two in the morning, and you'd get in bed.

I'm like, how was it? So not normal. It's just so not normal. Right? And you're already, like, I was already in love at that point. And, yeah, you're like, yeah, it was good. I was like, all right, I don't want to hear any more. Like, let's just go to bed.

At that point, it's like, holy shit, this is getting pretty crazy. But, yeah, there's nothing. nothing normal about it, but it's not like I have regrets because I went in there and, you know, I guess I left it all out there. And, yeah, but it gives everybody out there and myself a backstory to how you got to this point, right? Right. I remember a night in Ireland. It's Sean Mitch. I think it's the night he's talking about. I got home late and he's still awake and he's laying on his bed on top of the covers looking up at the ceiling

and he won't even make eye contact how was it said it was good it was good and he goes all right that's cool and he's done and he rolls over and sticks his head right in the pillows and I was like this guy absolutely the doors is pretty I know I have to say that from the portrayal on the show I've never seen

it portrayed as deep love as it has been with you and Caitlin it's it felt like soulmate stuff and and shana have to ask now um is that why this has been so hard i mean just i i felt love from the show and this new season right this this chapter now that you're looking around you're saying it's no it's no longer the same as it was is right because of the authenticity and the

genius and the the real love that was felt is that why this has been so hard to process Yeah, absolutely, because it's like not only where we engage, but it's like, man, I lost my best friend, too. We're going to take another break. Hey, what's up? I'm Stephanie Pratt. You may know me from The Hills. And I'm Wells Adams from, like, Bachelor in Paradise. And I don't know, I date someone that's famous.

Okay, you guys, he's. He's Wells Adams, Sarah Highland's boyfriend. Can that not be my moniker? Oh, no, it should be. So when we start the show, you're just going to be like, hey, it's Steph Pratt. Enough about you. And Sarah Hyland's boyfriend. We're going for it.

Enough about Wells. This is actually the Pratt cast. Yeah. And it's going to be about the hills. And we'll be talking about things you can't hear anywhere else having castmates come on talking about Wells' dating life with Sarah. You brought it back to me. I know. I was looking at you. My bad. They've locked us in this freaking studio together and they won't let us out until we have your new favorite obsession.

So please subscribe to Prattcast after you finish this episode or just do it right now because you're probably bored of this episode. And literally we want to get out. It's lunchtime. Yes. I'm sweating right now. Ew. Can we turn on the air? It's gross. All right. On three, one, two, three. You won't regret it. I want to say it's therapeutic. Like I want to say this is good.

And I think it is because as we process breakups and these pains, I think we live not only as we talk about like, I think we'll talk about in a second, but we live in a generation where there's an incredible amount of visibility into some of the hardest things now. You know, for you, you have to watch your partner move on. But also we live in a generation where vulnerability is quickly seen. And so hearing things like this, like hearing you processing through this is. is obviously going to relate with a lot of people out there. I, unfortunately, had to do it on national TV on Winter Games when Chris Harrison knew the exact question to ask me, then what's the hardest part?

He knew that's what was going to get me. And I'm not going to even say what I said, because this is about you, but my point is, this is not easy. And so you fighting through this is to be expected. For me, I just had to do it when I couldn't walk away. right um but but i you know shana i want you just just talk as you feel um you need we'll take breaks as we need uh but but yeah i mean i think that leads us into that question before is is what

is the hardest part um yeah well first off thank you guys for being patient with me i didn't actually think it's going to be uh this difficult i knew it'd be hard but i guess once you actually start opening up about it a little more um makes it that much harder um no it just feels like everything is just like completely gone like that like Caitlin and Sean like gone like everything we've had everything we've been through you know we were this team and we got through a lot of stuff together but then just like in an instant it's all gone and so it's just trying to move on from that and then stay positive about it and not let the outside noise take you down too much because you know

living in a world where everything is on social media and, um, you know, it's nerve-wracking every time I pick up my phone. I haven't been on Twitter in months just because I don't want to scroll the mentions. And then going on Instagram, you know, I do that for business purposes. Um, obviously get caught with scrolling. And that's always tough. I just, you know, you have a pit in your stomach. And then you know this and you know this.

Don't go to the Discover page. I do not go to the Discover page. I learned that pretty quick. I haven't been there in a while. Um, So, yeah, that's the hard part. And I think just with her moving on so quick, I just have a tough time understanding

why she would be putting this out everywhere or blasting it all over the place, knowing that it could hurt. There's a lot of confusion about the timeline of the end of your relationship. Yeah. When did everything, when did you start taking a break? we were working through things during the summer but we weren't officially like we were still together

like when you guys spent like a month apart and people on instagram were speculating out no we were still together um we ended up i would say officially breaking up September and then um announcing it in November yeah that's also around the same time i learned about kately and jason in november yeah i want to i want to definitely get into kately and jason in a second because i know that's got to be hard um but when you i think looking back on my time too and i'm just trying to pull back those those emotions i've honestly tried to block them out but um when you broke up and it was officially done in September right you don't you know you take some time to announce it because it's wise and smart and it's about you two anyways and did you expect it to

be this hard no I didn't I think we were at a point in our relationship where we were like all right this has to happen and it was just like all right we're doing it and just kind of went 100 miles an hour and next thing you know I think it really hit me hard the day it was announced that was tough but I never thought I guess in the back of my mind and I probably shouldn't have thought this I didn't think it was maybe completely over I thought that maybe all right there was a part of us that kind of wanted to announce it to kind of get everybody off our backs because we were trying to work on it behind closed doors and doing what we need to do and then just the pressure from everybody speculating and a lot of rumors starting

and that started affecting our relationship too so it was almost like all right we're done and then I guess in my mind I thought maybe there was still some chance you know after we announced it that we would you know stay friends and that's what I wanted to to do. Maybe I'm naive for thinking that, but I did tell her that I wanted to work through this as a team. That was my main thing. Like, we only have each other for this, and there's not a lot of people who have been through this situation and going through breakups are extremely difficult, but then having to deal with everything else, you know, I wanted to work with each other and kind of support one another and be there for each other. And then that just didn't happen. So why did you decide

you couldn't be friends um because i found out about her and jason yeah let's let's dig into that then um how do you feel about that um how much how much time do we have well we have we have we have i don't know i hope a long life ahead of us um yeah i feel the uh the whole array of emotions um pain anger, confusion, everything else. Yeah, it's tough. Well, we got an email from Elizabeth, and she asked a question on this topic.

She goes, once you go public with a breakup, and you are expected, you're obviously two people expected to move on eventually. She says, I love both Sean and Caitlin and Sean's feelings should, of course, be taken to consider race. but once you've broken up with someone do you really get a say on how fast your ex moves on no and i'm not saying i don't i don't have a saying anything that she does and that's her life and um obviously

what they had was strong enough to um pursue that and to run with it it does it hurt hell yeah it hurts um but she can do what she wants and i'm not going to stop her from, you know, like that lady asked or said, do we have a say? No, absolutely. I don't have a say. We, Sean and I were able to speak a couple times as a breakup. And one of those was, he asked that question to me was, do I even have to say here? Like, is there any timeline that we can, because it hurts, right? Like, no matter what, you're human, you see it. The, the worst part, I think, one of the worst parts about a breakup, not only is the finality of it sometimes and the idea that, you know, as Sean has talked about earlier,

like you look around and you go, this is done, moving on. But the second part is the Band-Aid being ripped off and seeing that person with somebody else, like sharing that intimate moment. Because, and Sean, I'll, you know, thank you for giving us the opportunity to ask these questions and thanks for coming in here to talk to us. But I do have to clarify that when you're engaged,

you're setting up boundaries in your, you're in it, Ashley. You're setting up boundaries in your head now to say, I'm never going to kiss another person. I'm never going to lay next to another person. I'm never going to look at another person with the trust and the honesty and the vulnerability that I'm doing to this partner. And so when you see that in an end, that's one thing. And then when you see that start to happen with somebody else, that's a whole other. And so what Sean and I came to conclusion, which is exactly what he said, it hurts, it can hurt, it should hurt, it will hurt.

But no, we don't have any say. And that's what hurts maybe the most. Yeah. You can't control it. That's what the, I mean, you have no say in it. It's like, yeah, they're together. and if she's happy she's happy that's what she wants to do then that's what she wants to do i think that is the finality of it all though you know when i when we broke up and announced it

and we're still talking um still talking as friends yeah still talking like texting and we're still um i was still bringing over tucker to see her and um that's what's something we were going to continue to do and yeah just kind of helping one another out but then it just it ended so then then when all this stuff comes out and you find out these things that was kind of like all right I guess this is really done we we have a question from Maggie related to the topic and I do think this is interesting and I do want to hear Sean your your opinion on this It says, the double standard from Maggie. I think we, while we obviously want both parties to be happy,

and I love Jason and Caitlin for each other, if the roles were reversed and Sean was being this public, you'd be crucified, it says. I mean, there was talk of him just hanging out with a girl from the gym that probably isn't even a relationship, and people were outraged. I think the relationship has probably been over for a while, and it's Caitlin's right to move on, but there's a double standard. That was from Maggie.

I will say this. I was very frustrated. There were tabloids that came out that I was spotted with some girl at a fitness event. I was also spotted at that fitness event with probably 354 other people as well. They didn't put that in there. And then I was getting attacked really bad. And I was getting very mean emails, messages, comments, and people were just out from my head because they thought that I was dating somebody, which I wasn't. There was no relationship there.

And then I'd heard that Caitlin talked about on her podcast, and that was something that also frustrated me because at that point, I already knew that she had been with Jason and was with Jason a couple weeks prior to that and talking to me. So that hurt. Why do you think that is? I mean, there is this. It feels like, you know, I remember, remember when the headlines came out about you and somebody from some fitness event. And no matter what here, let's take even Caitlin out of the conversation here. And like, let's say, yeah, at that point, it wasn't public with her and Jason. just for you right you come out and you're spotted with one girl at a fitness event

and it becomes you know the headlines of negativity this you know now comes into play the katelyn and jason thing and we add that in it says this is being supported in and encouraged right why is that well i think it's also because he's from bachelor nation right he's a well-liked guy from Bachelor Nation and people look at our lives sometimes as being these people on TV. So they're like, oh, I really liked Jason on his season. I was rooting for him. I really liked Caitlin on her season. Oh, it's so cool that they're together.

I like both of them. That's one theory that I have where I think that is probably why that is very supported. I don't know. I don't know if there's a double standard, but I didn't think it was fair the way I was being treated, just knowing what I knew. But then again, I keep reminding myself what my dad has told me since I've been a little kid that life is not fair. And it's never going to be fair. So it's just rolling with the punches. And in a sense, right now I'm kind of just getting all of it out of the way.

Like, all right, going through the breakup, that's painful. And then like you said, I think the hardest thing that anybody has to go through is seeing their ex or somebody they're in love with another person. So I'm kind of, all right, we're getting this over with now, like just dealing with it. And I just know that it's all going to make me stronger and I'm going to come out of this a better person. So I try and stay positive as best I can. You know, I can't, I'm not going to sit here and complain about my life. Like, I know I'm a lucky guy. Like, I get to wake up every morning and I do whatever.

I love most with phenomenal people. I have my health. I have a loving and caring family, great friends, and every day I come home and I have the best dog in the world that greets me when I open the door. So I realize I'm a lucky guy and I know that this is just a relationship. So I don't want to sit here and be like, oh, poor me, like pity me. You know, I'm going to get through it. It's going to hurt like hell. It does hurt like hell, but it's just going to make me stronger. And I know that down the road I'm going to be able to look back at this. And I know that down the road I'll be really happy again in a relationship. Okay, so Sean, what are your feelings on Caitlin right now?

Caitlin is someone that I obviously care about and somebody that I was in love with. And she was somebody that I experienced all crazy things in life with and went through a lot with her. So it's tough for me to sit here now, like trying to go through the thick of everything and have. an honest opinion about her and I don't want it to be negative because even though we've talked about a lot of the tougher things in our relationship here, you know, I don't want to discredit all the good things that we had in our relationship and there were a lot of them and we did have a lot of good times together. And obviously I will look back at this part of my life and cherish it.

So I guess at the end of the day, I do want her to be happy. Now, I suppose that the reason you maybe have a bad taste in your mouth is just because how fast you moved on? Yeah, I think that just, it stings. And I think that's normal to have those feelings but again I'm not going to sit here and say hey I was this perfect guy in this relationship

and I know there are things that I could have been better with and I'm not putting the blame on her for the relationship or why it ended I think it just hurts seeing somebody that you're in love with move on and move on quickly but she's allowed to do that and it is what it is but yeah it's just it's hard you mentioned a couple times through the podcast and so i got to ask um is there a chance or do you foresee yourself uh ever getting back together no was the answer to that different like a month ago yeah yes we're in taking another week The Super Secret Bestie Club podcast season four is here. And we're locked in.

That means more juicy cheesement. Terrible love advice. Evil spells to cast on your ex. No, no, no, no, we're not doing that this season. Oh, well, this season, we're leveling up. Each episode will feature a special bestie, and you're not going to want to miss it. Get in here. Today we have a very special guest with us.

Our new Super Secret Bestie is The Diva of the People. The Diva of the People. The Diva of the People. I'm just like text your ex. My theory is that if you need to figure out that the stove is hot, go and touch it. Go and figure it out for yourself. Okay.

That's us. That's us. My name is Curley. And I'm Maya. In each episode, we'll talk about love, friendship, heart breaks, men, and of course, our favorite secrets. Listen to the Super Secret Bestie Club as a part of the Michael Tura podcast network available on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast,

or wherever you guys. your podcast. Hi, I'm Janica Lopez and in the new season of the Overcover podcast, I'm taking you on an exciting journey of self-reflection. Am I ready to enter this new part of my life? Like, am I ready to be in a relationship? Am I ready to have kids and to really just devote myself and my time? I wanted to be successful on my own, not just because of who my mom is. Like, I felt like I needed to be better or work twice as hard as she did. Join me for conversations about healing and growth. Life is freaking hard and growth doesn't happen in comfort.

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Because I think hair is a complex language system, right? In terms of it can tell how old you are, your marital status, where you're from, you're a spiritual belief. But I think with social media, there's like a hyperfixation and observation of our hair, right? That this is sometimes the first thing someone sees when we make a post or real, it's how our hair is styled. We talk about the important role hairstylists play in our community,

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That's right. Are there Jeopardy-truthers? Are there people who say that it's... It was rigged. Yeah, ever since I was first on, people are like. They gave you the answers, right? And then there's the other ones which are like. They gave you the answers, and you still blew it. Don't miss Jeopardy legend Ken Jennings on our special game show week of the Puzzler podcast.

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now on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. So when you guys did officially split in September, you didn't have this any sort of negative connotation. No, I don't think it was really negative. It was just sad. I think we were both sad. And I think we were both at a point where it had to happen. So it was, we were being friendly.

And, but she had moved on, which is fine. So I think that's kind of when the communication stopped. I feel like Caitlin may have started mourning the end of your relationship before possibly it was even over, say in like July when things started really going down south and you were trying to work on things when do you think you started nothing I don't want to like just say for a fact she started in January in July I have no idea when she did this is just vibes I'm getting but Wendy you think you started morning at the end of the relationship yeah that could be a true statement I think

it was probably after her and I think everything just kind of hit really hard and really quick And so maybe that is why I'm having a little bit of a tougher time because I'm going through the mourning process now where she could have been earlier. So I guess people mourn things differently. And I would definitely say that announcing the breakup was extremely tough and then seeing her move on. It was extremely tough.

And I'm kind of just mourning all of it right now. Right. So possibly? It was, maybe she was mourning the end of the relationship. And then when you guys announced it, she kind of felt a weight lifted. And then you kind of were the opposite. That's when everything started to feel real. Um, I don't know if I felt the opposite.

Like, there was a weight lifted from me too, I felt. But I guess I just didn't, um, I don't know, maybe I just didn't prepare. myself i don't think that's something i can prepare for no i guess it's in the back of your mind like all right maybe this thing won't work um and we did a lot to try and make it work um so i think when it actually did come to an end it was like holy cow it's actually done and then of course even when we broke up and from september to november still kind of just you know um going along day to day and like I said before I think it just really hit once it was announced

and then hit again when I found out everything with Jason so I want to be really clear about the timeline you guys broke up officially in September you remain friendly then Jason and Caitlin met while recording her podcast in October

and then they started dating in January or at least public about dating in January, you're not insinuing it at all that they were like going behind your back before the official breakup. I want to make that like super clear. Yeah, I'm not saying that she was cheating on him or cheating on me with him. I'm not saying that. Because I know that she loves you unconditionally still. Yeah, I don't think, I don't want to say that. I don't want people

to think that. The whole timeline thing, like you said, broke up September, announced. in November. I just found out about the Jason and Caitlin thing back in November. So I know they are publicly going on and talking about it right now and saying they're going on their first dates and second dates and put

in all over social media. But I knew this for a couple months now. So it's a little bit I've been dealing with it a little bit longer. So it's kind of a little fresher to the public. The only thing that I guess I don't know if they're afraid to announce it

prior to then and maybe and when they say they go on the they're going on the first date I'm assuming that that's public because obviously they spent time together before then so that's the one thing that I was just like oh okay why are they trying to tell everybody they're just starting to date now that's why I'm like are they hiding something but I don't think they are that's where I'm confused the public really perceived you guys not being married after being engaged for three years as a stressor, as maybe that was why you guys broke up because you just, you just didn't want to get married and she wanted to get married. Was that an actual issue in the relationship or just a perceived issue from the public? Yeah, that was definitely more

perceived by the public. It was never a big thing with us. Since day one, we realized that the way we met was definitely a little different and we always said we wanted to take our time but there was never any point where I was like let's get married now or she was like come on let's get married we both were just kind of going with the flow and um we really didn't let that outside noise get to us like the whole marriage thing we kind of laughed off like when we're ready we'll get married um and we just never got to that point and I think we both felt that so that's why we never really disgusted or started planning it because I think obviously deep down she knew and deep down I knew that we just weren't there okay so you don't think that your relationship was ever

stable enough for you to sign the papers and commit to forever right yeah and at least that's how I felt I mean I can't talk on her behalf but I know like she was never like come on let's get married let's do this like I and she never and she was always said that she's never been a girl that's you know crazy about planning her wedding or getting married and I think it's just for her being in that stable relationship, and if marriage happens, it happens. I mean, I would have to imagine for you, and as a friend, I sit there and I read this stuff, and I see all these things, right, come out on, in tabloids and magazines on, you know, Twitter or whatever it is. I see all these things. I see your picture pop up, and I see

them, and I know no matter what, neither you or Caitlin here want these things to be spread because they're not true. And so sitting silent feels paralyzing. It almost feels, like it would hurt more than coming out and talking about it. Yeah, and I think a lot of people just think I'm this guy who only cares about his gym and working out and his dog and, you know, because everybody looks at social media as an end-all be-all, right? They're just like, oh, this guy does not give a crap about anything. He doesn't care about his relationship or Caitlin or any of that. I don't know. Which is going to be farther from the truth. And I also want to help maybe,

hopefully this helps somebody get through this because as tough as this was to sit here and talk obviously we've come a long way in the last hour it does it has helped me and hopefully this helps somebody if they're sitting in their car right now because probably somebody's going through a tough breakup and all three of us sitting at this table have been through very tough breakups since you wanted to come here and tell your side of the story I just want to clarify a few more things before we move on from all the serious stuff. Was it a mutual split, would you say? I would say that it ended up being mutual.

It ended up getting to a point where we both realized that we couldn't keep going on the way we were. We just weren't giving each other what we both needed, and it was a constant back and forth, and we just couldn't get on the same page. And so I guess the reasoning behind the split was just not being able to. see eye to eye on a lot of things yeah and he specifically you want to open up about no just um you know things that she needed she didn't feel that i was able to give her and then vice versa and it was kind of just this um never ending cycle of did you feel like you were giving that and

that she that she thought that she was giving what you needed or is it something like you guys were just two people that were never meant to give and take from each other. other I think we're both stubborn people and I think we've tried there's not like one issue or one thing that's just like well that's what caused it was just stuff that continued to develop and just kind of get piled on one another and then I just got to a point where we couldn't do it. Sean, I want to pause here and just say thanks. I do think your intention of saying,

hey, maybe somebody out there listening to this could feel. I think the feeling of pain and vulnerability is never easy to share. I think especially for men, it seems to be hard, and you've done that today. And so somebody out there listening, I guarantee goes, wow, like I'm not alone. And that's really why we started this podcast two years ago, is to talk about The Bachelor and somehow three. that use it as an avenue for that people to watch the bachelor enjoy the bachelor to know that

the people that do the bachelor are still human and that as a result we can share that we're not you're not alone as you watch this and you see people cry and you see people feel pain. I want to lighten it up for a second. Before we end with a couple final questions for you, I want Ashley to do what she does best because I guarantee you she has some pretty ridiculous questions to ask you first. So, Sean, before we end this kind of on a more somber note, if you don't mind, I want to take some time for Ashley to take it away. I don't think we've ever gone from this sad to like stupid questions.

No, no, no, not depressing at all. I think the, I don't know, you know, everybody in this room, there's five of us in the room right now. I think vulnerability, authenticity, genuineness, and that like rawness is attractive. to so many and I think it's very rare that we're able to share in those moments with each other and so as a result no I don't think it's depressing I actually just think it feels like life it just feels like life in here it feels like we can all just take a deep breath and be like yeah things are sometimes really great we can we can become numb to the pain and numb to

to the things that hurt but sometimes life just smacks us in the face and we have to talk about it And it's moments like that now that I think I'm most attracted to as I get older is the moments that we can say, no, like sometimes life just hurts. And so, no, not depressing. I just think it feels really heavy in here and in a really relatable way. And on that note, who's your man crush? I'm standing right next to him. Really? No, I know that's not true.

My man crush, um, who, that's a good one. When I watch movies, like, Celebrity crush is lame. That's a lame question.

You don't know who you're man crushes. I'll be honest. I really thought you were going to just see Ryan Gosling. I do like the Goss. How could you not? Big fan of Jake Gyllenhaal, too. He's Jake the Snake's the man. Leo.

Leo's another one. All three of them. They're all three really fantastic choices. What was the last? last movie that made you cry or moved you? Oh, I just watched one recently, I think. Marley and me. All right.

Yeah. Yeah. I remember when I first saw that movie, it ended at 1 o'clock in the morning. I just watched it for the first time a couple years ago. And then my sister and I had to wake my dad up with a face time and be like, let me see the Lucy. I have to say Lucy. It's the saddest. Real quick, can you imagine being the father?

of Ashley and Lauren how much fun that's got to be I've never met Lauren but I need to seems fun I mean just unbelievable Ashley's they're crying at two in the morning he's nice enough be like all right guys here she is Lucy um what is the worst movie you've ever seen um Paul Blart the mall cop I never saw but it looked really bad for me it's the love guru oh yeah that's a bad one A real bad. I walked out of the theater. Like Paul Bart, Mark, Paul, I think it was like a three or four.

I was shocked that they were able to make a sequel to that. And lastly, your first concert. What was that? Dave Matthews Band, Harford, Connecticut. Cool. I'm semi-surprise by that. I'm not. That's so, like, a big deal.

Did you smoke weed at that concert? No comments. How old were you? No, I didn't because I was pretty young. I think I was probably like 14. My buddy just went to a Dave Matthews concert. It's his 18th, and he never smokes, ever. He hates smoking.

He smoked at this concert. He FaceTime me, his eyes are red, and he's just having a panic attack in the back. I said, well, lesson learned. Yeah, you go. Don't try to be cool, buddy. Drugs aren't cool. Hey, Sean, again, thank you. This is more in general for anybody listening.

And also, I want to invite anybody listening to, please email us at Ben and Ashley at iHeartMedia.com. Any of your questions for Sean? Questions for us? Stories of breakup, stories of pain. You know, if we're going to be vulnerable with you, we want to also offer the arena and the opportunity for you to be vulnerable with us. And so email us.

And Sean, to end here, two final questions. One is as a friend of yours, as somebody that loves you, is somebody that also still loves Caitlin and I know Ashley loves Caitlin but just as friends in general how can friends best support people that are going through breakups just be there for them

no matter what and just listen like you've done for me I called you I think you were in the Dominican right? Yeah I was with David Ortiz I was and you took time away probably an hour hour and a half even with like a three or four second delay

when we talk to each other That's right. Just offering advice. Yeah, and just being there. I really learned, you know, who I can count on. And that's, I guess, been a positive through all this. Yeah. Yeah, just be there.

Be there. One of our mutual friends, NAS, producer on the show, who is no longer a producer. She created something called Heartbroken Anonymous. And it's basically an AA meeting every month for people who are heartbroken. And so they can just talk out their feelings with other people in similar situations. Are you trying to get me to go? I'm just thinking that if you are here on Valentine's Day, she's doing on Valentine's Day. Yeah, Sean, you need to help you.

It's pretty cool. No, I think that's a great idea. Actually, that group just let you know has grown tremendously. So it's actually, yeah, it kind of relates really well with this. Just everybody off the bachelor seasons, they just pile on to there. Yeah, they just all show up. There have been some alums at the meeting. Yeah.

But I think it's gone really well, and it's interesting to think that we're, you know, communities are connecting over pain. I don't know. I think that's cool. I think that's what church. kind of should be um that's it another topic hey uh final question for everybody how do you move forward just continue what i'm doing and uh i'm trying to stay positive and um really just focusing on the good in my life and knowing that there is this whole other side to this that i'll get to might take a little bit of time but um like i said i am i am a lucky

guy in a lot of aspects of my life so it's just powering through it and just moving on like i've always done like you've always done like everybody listened to this is always done that's all i can do you uh go see sean at the booth camp gym in Nashville or uh you can go and go and download his app at boothcamp app dot com Sean Ben we appreciate you buddy I love you coming on. Thank you so much for being here. Bye. You know, in depth was really designed to go deep in the topics that typically

we don't get the opportunity to talk about. And we work, you know, closely right now with The Bachelor. And, you know, the show has been something that we've watched. Ashley and I have watched for years for entertainment and for joy and to take our mind off of things. You drink wine, you eat cheese, and you celebrate with friends, and you watch people pick roses. And then sometimes we have a very good.

instances like Sean's here, like yours and like mine. And I would say every season and most people that participate in the show, they have a story from the show that transcends reality television. And as I said, we work closer to The Bachelor. And this week on this week's episode, there is a moment, maybe the most real, vulnerable, most difficult moment to ever get through in Bachelor history. I agree. It's sobering. It's tough.

And the Bachelor, you know, send it to us so we could talk about it. We want to talk about it with you today. And then we also want to talk about it more in depth on Monday. But here's the scenario. What you're going to watch on Monday is a topic that we've actually broached a couple of times on this podcast with Ashley Spivey a few weeks ago. That's right. Um, we've, you know, I've mentioned on that podcast that I, I know somebody very close to me who has been a victim of sexual assault.

And, uh, and on this week's episode of The Bachelor, Kalin and Colton sit down, um, for their after date dinner. And typically at those dinners, um, it is the time that you're building your relationship. You're talking about things that, that make you who you are. It helps the Bachelor, Bachelor, I understand the contestants better. and it helps the audience and understand the contestants better and we've said it last week actually Ashley that

you know there was something about Kalin that we just weren't getting yet like we felt like there was more to the story and we thought that like we kind of she had brought up topics about herself she had said there's more to me you know than when I'm communicating

but we didn't know what that was and this week we found out what it is and so Kalin sits down with Colton and shares with him that in college she was at a party at this party her drink was drugged um and the story continues to where herself and i think it was three of her friends find themselves naked the next morning without any memory of what happened the night before yeah with that she she concludes through some some very obvious factors that she was a victim um and also survivor

of sexual assault. As I'm watching this, it's obviously deep. It's obviously a moment that she's sharing now with the world. Colton is listening to her. And I just felt like, okay, this seemed to be a topic, once again, that continues to get brought up. How often does this happen? How many people are out there saying, I am a survivor, and I have been a victim of sexual assault? And this is what I found out.

according to a study done in this year 20% of women admit to being a victim of sexual assault 8% of men that's crazy 30% of our population okay but we have the clip from the bachelor this Monday night so we just want to clarify you guys this isn't a spoiler this is something that ABC gave to us because they want us to open this dialogue on the topic and for you guys to I'll watch it so that you can come to us with some of your thoughts and feelings, and we can discuss it more on our regular show on Monday night. Thank you. Thank you for being able to open up to me, too. Yeah. I think that's maybe why I feel so safe with you.

You're incredibly strong, you know that? Thank you. I feel like I've been through hell and back. But I think every time I open up, it makes me stronger. And I'm able to take a little piece of me back that was broken by. I'm way stronger than I ever imagined. You're okay? Mm-hmm.

Okay. I wouldn't open up with him about this if I didn't feel so safe with him. Everything about our relationship feels natural and feels real and feels authentic. And it just, it feels right. I don't think I've ever had like a connection. I don't think I've ever had like a connection. ever had like a connection the way that Colton and I have one. It seems we have this whole place to ourselves, sorry.

The whole place? This is so beautiful. It just feels like it's us. I know that I can definitely see myself falling in love with them. I just feel so confident in us. I mean, I mean, I don't really know if I have words, you know? It's, that was like what, probably the deepest moment I've ever watched on The Bachelor.

Um, I feel like there is like an amazing amount. There's like, there's like, obviously there's something between them now that is going to be unlike what he has than anybody else because I don't think you get that vulnerable. I don't know that he's going to share a moment that vulnerable with another person. So I think they're always going to have like a little special spot for each other. Well, also, you know, we've, we've spoken about before. And in life in general, let's, you know, again, this transcends reality television. Let's not, this isn't, you know, in the vacuum of The Bachelor now. Let's say in life in general, everybody has a story.

You meet Kalen for the first time and you go, there's something more to this woman than what I'm understanding. She's beautiful and she's smart and she's intelligent. She's, she's gritty. But there's something more. And then I look at you, Ashley, and I'm saying, You know, you're the same thing as I would just say about Kaelin. I'm like, but there's something more. It's our stories behind the layers that pull out who we actually are.

This is one of those circumstances that we were able to see somebody's story that has now shaped Kailen forever. Being a victim of sexual assault, I don't want to undervalue or just kind of gloss over what that means. That affects your life forever. I am not a victim, right? I can't claim to understand completely where she's coming from. Nor can I. But what I can say is we can read about it, we can understand it, and we can listen to it. And when we're listening to Kaelin, we know that's shaped everything in her life since then.

Absolutely. And I don't want to say that it's nice to hear. I can find the right word again. But there is something about the way that she told Colton how, because he's a virgin, she feels so comfortable with him. Yeah. You're right. Because of that. Like, that he is not a threat to her in any way, that she just feels cozy.

One topic for Monday that I want to discuss is shame. Kaelin feels an enormous amount of shame coming off of this. She brings it up to Colton. She holds a lot of regret in her heart about it. She said her friends have kind of covered up. I want to talk to you, Ashley. I want to hear from our listeners. Please email us at been in Ashley.

Iheartmedia.com about the topic of shame and how much that has affected Kailen's life based on a scenario that she did not control. that somebody and their wickedness and evilness did to her. And now she's talking about it and we want to talk about it with you. Make sure you tune in Monday night to The Bachelor to see this for yourself, see the extended clip, and have this open dialogue and conversation that Caitlin has helped us start. We know it's been heavy of you guys today.

It's been a deep episode. But we enjoy you guys being here with us and getting to know people on a deeper level. We look forward to Monday night. We'll talk to you then. Ashley, it's good to see you. Bye.