The Ben and Ashley I Almost Famous Podcast - Bachelor Boys Night

Episode Date: March 19, 2020

Why did Peter pull a switcheroo?!Arie Luyendyk gives his honest opinion on Peter‘s tumultuous finale and how going through something similar ended up being the best outcome for him.And the original “switcheroo” expert, Bachelor Jason Mesnick, joins us for some insight on what was going through Peter’s mind. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. My boyfriend's professor is way too friendly, and now I'm seriously suspicious. Wait a minute, Sam. Maybe her boyfriend's just looking for extra credit. Well, Dakota, luckily, it's back to school week on the OK Storytime podcast, so we'll find out soon. This person writes, my boyfriend's been hanging out with his young professor a lot. He doesn't think it's a problem, but I don't trust her. Now he's insisting we get to know each other, but I just want her gone.

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almost famous podcast with IHartRadio. Another almost famous podcast this week. We're pumped to be talking to today. It's me again, yeah, Ben. And today is a boys episode. Ashley had her time with the girls. Now, I'm going to have my time with the boys. Today on the podcast, we have some special guests.

Ariely and Dyke, who was The Bachelor and Jason Mesnick, who was a Bachelor. And then myself, who was a Bachelor at one point. We're here today to talk about what it's like to fall in love, to switch maybe our interest at times, and ultimately to find the one that was always meant for us. Our first guest is a guy who knows what it's like to do the switch, but also to find love in the end. and a love that is everlasting and a love that is beautiful. In fact, before we brought him on the podcast, he was actually holding his new beautiful daughter

and had to pass it off to his wonderful wife before he started talking. Arielyndyke, welcome to the Almost Famous Podcast. What's up? How are you, buddy? I'm good, man. Hey, first off, let's talk about your life. Before we get into the mess, that was Peter's season, especially the conclusion, you are a dad, you are a husband. Wow, how quickly worlds flip and things happen.

How are you holding up? Things are good. You know, luckily, it's a really nice weather here in Arizona. We've been, you know, going on walks and going on bike rides, but kind of avoiding big crowds. But, yeah, it's been good. You know, I think that it's obviously stressful for everyone, but we've been taking care of our neighbors,

went to the grocery store for our neighbor who's elderly, and it's just been, it's interesting, but, you know, it keeps us home. We're watching a lot of TV, and obviously we watch Peter's season, and it was very entertaining, I'll have to say. Yeah, well, let's dive into it, man. Speaking of entertaining, we saw the whole season, mixed reviews throughout the season, right? We came into it with high expectations for Peter. I had high expectations for him.

I know him personally. He is a great dude. He's really a kind, man. man who was always great to me that allowed me to kind of involve myself when he needed me into his bachelor experience. However, some of his probably, I guess, biggest faults, one would be his just how nice he is, forcing to not put his foot down maybe as much as he should have. All the leading up to the very end, when he proposed to Hannah Ann, my question for you, Ari, and let's talk about it together, is should he have ever proposed to Hannah Ann? I think in that moment, you

know you're trying to do what's right for yourself and what you think is probably right for the situation you know I think there's a lot of pressure that comes with a proposal day obviously coming from somebody who proposed to somebody and then had some second thoughts on it immediately after I can see the pressure of having to propose that day so I can sort of see or his mindset where it was on that level. The only thing I don't agree with was, you know, obviously Madison left and his heart seemed to be really with Madison. So it almost felt like a second choice.

And also to make Madison and to, you know, obviously say her name during the proposal was a bit odd to me because you could see his head was still sort of in that space. So I guess the short answer is, is no, he shouldn't have proposed. I guess the more complicated answer is, is that, you know, as we all know, there's a lot of pressure that comes with proposing at the end of this television show, and I think that got to him. Let's sit there for a second, because you and I can both relate on this, right? I mean, it's, I didn't propose to the woman I didn't end up choosing, but I did

say publicly that I fell in love with two women, and then neither a relationship worked out for me. And so I can see the turmoil and the confusion on that last day and how hard it is to know that you have two people that you care a lot about and that you believe you care a lot about, standing in front of you knowing that somebody is going to go home or in Peter's case, somebody already did go home. For anybody out there listening, Ari, tell us what it is like to stand up there and how confusing it is leading up to those last moments, like just emotionally, just walk us through what it's like even the night before as you start to process what you're going to do i mean it's really nerve-wracking you know i can only draw from my experience and you know i had this overwhelming

feeling that um i think from the beginning of the show a lot of these uh decisions that are made almost become more than just your own opinion but the opinion of people around you and you know you really don't have that many people to lean on because you're family only meets the girls for one afternoon, and it's really hard to, you know, side one way or the other, and to sort of get help from your family is also really challenging because they really aren't seeing the big picture. I could see that he got a lot of pressure from his family, you know, to get engaged to Hannah Ann. They seem to really favor her, which didn't help going into the last week that he was facing. And I think the big thing for me is I really leaned on the people

around me. And at the time, I hate to talk about it because it's already kind of hard to talk about. But Lauren is more the risk. She was more the risk because she had trouble opening up. We didn't really develop as far along as other relationships because she was nervous in front of cameras. And I know how much I cared about her, but I was so scared to take that risk. And I think in the same sort of situation, you saw as soon as Mass and left, I feel like his focus changed because Hannah-Anne was always there for him. She was so, she was basically bending over backwards to make sure that he was okay, that his heart was okay. And, you know, she was a great individual, great woman. And I feel like she was a great choice.

But at the end of the day, you really have to think, think hard and really understand. you know, where your emotions are. And I think that's something that I obviously had difficulty with and he did too. But I think that the wrong was to ignore those feelings and to just go with what everyone else thought was the best option for him. And in a small way, I can definitely relate to that. I mean, and we say all of this, and I can just hear the listeners now for both of us, is how can you be critical of Peter when you've been in that position?

you know, are you and I have have done, you know, this in different ways, but have similar storylines to how this played out for us. What we're saying is you learn from experience. Like Ari and I both have been there. We've, we've, we've experienced those last few hours. We've experienced those last few days. It's not easy. It is confusing. You get infiltrated with knowledge from different, and from different emotions and feelings from different levels, from different people. And the one thing you said there are that I want to sit on for a second is how important the family is in this decision, which is why I think a wise family, and why it probably upset me the most this whole season, is never Peter personally didn't upset me. It was how his

family handled it, is how passionate they were about being right and that they knew what's best when they had just gotten there. Like that is so unfair to him, which led him to the situation that he's in now after the final finale, which is no press, nobody's talking about it. He feels probably pretty isolated. I'm sure he's back on fine terms of his family. But how, I mean, did your family, what was their experience like on the show? Because I know for mine, they cared, they wanted to be in the know, but they didn't speak up too strongly because they're aware that they hadn't been around for like three months. This whole thing was going on. Yeah. I think I was definitely looking for some clarity from my family. And, you know, they didn't really give me that clarity because I felt

like they felt both women in the end were, you know, great, great women and they were great choices for me. But so they really, you know, let it up to me and they didn't sway me one way or the other. I couldn't imagine being, you know, in love with someone and then my family saying that that person's not right for me, you know, because I don't, would almost push me more towards them for some reason. I don't know why. But yeah, I could, Peter's family, it was frustrating to watch to because you wanted them, you were just kind of sitting on your couch going like, just support him, just like lift him up, you know? And I felt like they were helping tear him down and it just was so hard to watch because, you know, at the end of the day, your family is all

you've got. And it's just so hard that he didn't get that support. And I really did feel for him. And I don't know if you know much about how this looks kind of after the fact. But obviously, at this point, Peter doesn't feel like he has this support. As viewers were watching, going it doesn't feel like he has the support from his family you've been in a situation of extreme difficulty where it feels like i mean i'm not going to speak for you you can agree or disagree it feels like the world from bachelor nation is screaming at you what are you doing uh this is wrong this is mean yeah whatever you probably feels pretty alone what do you think peter's feeling like right now since all this has gone down and it was just an

announced this week that Madison and Peter are no longer together either. So now what is it like to sit in that season of thinking, oh my gosh, I've made, not made a mistake necessarily, but like the world's out to get me. Yeah. I mean, I don't know. It's tough. You know, I feel like he's recovering pretty well, though. He's hanging out with Kylie Jenner. I heard. So I don't know what that is all about. And like just the whole like Madison hanging out with Selena Gomez. I'm like, where are we in this vaccination world where all of a sudden we're hanging out with Selena Gomez and Kylie Jenner like the next day but um you know obviously he's probably feeling very alone right now and you just got to lean on your friends and um you know

we had that same situation Lauren and I but we had each other and we knew that we were going to last we knew we were going to get married and have kids like that's all we wanted for for our little family and you know our immediate family supported us and that really felt good and the decision that I made you know I talked with all my friends about it talked with my family about it and everyone was on board because they knew that I wasn't happy and they knew that Lauren was the person for me after I talked to them for weeks on end about you know feeling conflicted and what should I do and the world's going to hate me and they just said you know what? This is a television show. This is going to be too easy for your life where people are going

to be up in arms, but it's the rest of your life. You got to make that decision for you. And that's sort of where I kind of, you know, cast that judgment aside and said, this is what I'm going to do. And if people aren't okay with it, then they're just going to have to get over it, you know. And I just, for Peter, I just feel for him because it's just the ending that no one wanted. You know, everyone wants to see somebody happy at the end of this. And I think genuinely, people really felt bad for Peter where I think that was a little bit opposite in my season. People were just angry at me.

I think it helped his case that Hannah Ann didn't become Bachelorette because they would have lifted her up more and I think they would have played more of the sinister role on his side of things. And so I think they were a little, I think they were pretty easy on him, to be honest. But hey, you know, with the ending that we got, And, you know, he's not with Maddie anymore.

I'm happy that they weren't harder on him. And I feel like the overall concern or their overall feeling of this ending is a feeling of feeling bad for everyone involved. And I think the biggest hate that anyone received was Barb at the end of this. So maybe that was a tactical decision for Barb to be so over the top so that it would take the heat off of Peter. I don't know. I did. I think I saw a tweet. maybe Ashley or somebody tweeted like what if it was genius of Barb to say oh my gosh my son's getting

hate I'm going to throw myself in the grenade and take one for the team and I mean literally it is impressive and I don't know Barb personally at all I do like I said no Peter and I like Peter but it is impressive that somebody can literally be on the TV for like a half of episode in total and cause so much hysteria like it's it's insane to me are you mentioned it earlier and I don't know how to phrase this question. So if it comes off wrong, just ask for follow-up here. But you called Lauren a risk. And they said this during my season a lot when I was kind of coming down to the final decision was as we talked it through. It's like, hey, one, you know what you're getting, or at least you think you know what you're getting. The other one is a risk

because maybe the relationship isn't there yet or maybe the family looks a little, like maybe hasn't accepted you in yet or whatever. But both, and we're going to have Jason Messnick on here and a little bit. And the reason we're doing this episode is because all of our stories are are similar in some way to Peters. And we can all relate with the switcheroo or we can relate with the mixed emotions or, you know, maybe falling in love with multiple people, those kind of things. But for you and Jason, you did the switcheroo and it worked. And it worked really well for both of you. Why do you think it has worked? And, and, I mean, you have marriages and kids now. Like, this isn't this work like where it's like, oh,

cool they have a bachelor relationship no you are married with kids and and so is jason why why is the switcheroo a moment of such clarity and i mean maybe you could tell me if i'm wrong i don't remember a switcheroo necessarily not working well i think because and that this is just coming from my perspective you know obviously there's people that hearts get broken in the process but you know in any breakup that's the case and you know there's I think both with Jason and I there was never the intention of hurting anyone and I just want people to know that I think Becca is an amazing woman and I'm so happy that she's happy and she had her time on the bachelorette and I really was it was really nice to see that she got her happy ending and I'm really I just want to kind of say that first

before I get into this next piece um I think the risk it takes to break off an engagement in front of eight million people and cast that aside because that relationship, there was something there for you to get engaged. Otherwise, you wouldn't have done it. So that person obviously does mean a lot to you, but you knew in your heart that this other person could be your forever love. And I think that the bravery it takes to do that is something that not only my family realized what I was doing, but also Lauren realized what I was doing, is that I was going to face a lot

of judgment, and it's because of love. Like, I just wanted something that I knew would last a lifetime. And when I realized that Lauren was that person, it almost didn't matter what, you know, general public thought, what the viewers at home thought. Like, I knew what was right. And that was an overwhelming feeling that I just couldn't cast aside. And so I think, think that with Jason and myself, knowing that that's the person for me and the person for him, like the risk is worth it. So I think this ending was different because Chris is the one that sort of orchestrated or tried to orchestrate this rekindling of Maddie and Peter's relationship. I think if it would have came from Peter, Peter would have been like, no, this

is what I got to do and ran after Mattie. I think the situation would be. different. Obviously, the broken up, it didn't work, and it should have probably been left alone. But I think in Jason's case, and in my case, you know, the risk was worth it. And it was because there was just an overwhelming feeling of knowing us right. I'm sorry to like just continue to sit on things. But I think it's important because it's intriguing to me is when you, what does it feel like to know what's right? Like, can you walk us through at least your experience when you're with somebody you're tossing and turning there's obviously anxiety that's involved as and i say this even with the perspective of peter's got to been feeling this

and then you finally put your foot in the ground and you say i've got to make this decision like i have to do this what what is that process and experience like especially knowing very well that there's going to be millions upon millions upon millions of people that are watching this knowing this and invested into this yeah well i think for me me, you know, I, you know, going back on that time on the show, you know, the night before the proposal, I was pretty torn because, you know, everyone was saying like, you know, this person's good for you. You know, you have. You know, she's an incredible woman and she's in, you know, the relationship I had with Becca was very easygoing. She's, she's so easy to talk to. She's

very comfortable from the cameras and it progressed slowly but it was like you know it's something that was very solid um the relationship with lauren you know there was an undeniable pull towards each other we had a little trouble communicating you know there was times where i didn't know she really liked me so it was kind of a risk you know and and and towards the end she finally sort of told me how she felt and it was this relationship by it established the entire time was sort of always the one that was in the back of my head with Becca because it was solid. And now we had this, I had this feeling of just like wanting to know more about Lauren,

but I also felt like it was a little bit risky because I didn't really know where she stood and she had really a tough time on camera. So the only time that I could really get a glimpse of her was kind of like in between shots or sometimes we'd be in a car together heading to a different location and all of a sudden and I would see this, like, different person. So when overnight's happened, there was a shift all of a sudden, and I realized, you know, that I really cared for Lauren and that I was in love with her.

And I knew I was in love with her, but I knew a different side of her at that point. So it got down to the final moments and, you know, I was having to make my decision. And I just remember a lot of production was saying, like, reminding me the things that I talked about in past, you know, with Becca and reminding me of the concerns I had with Lauren. And it just kind of got in my head. And I just thought, this is the right decision for me based on, you know, what's good

on paper. Weird thing to think about when you're the bachelor, you have to make some types of decisions like, is this a logical decision or is this an emotional decision? And, you know, at the end of the day, I'm not young. You know, I want, I wanted to be married. I want to move forward with my life. with somebody and I felt like this was like a very solid decision and then when I made the decision just the thought of Lauren kept creeping in and um you know I had trouble sleeping at night and

you know her birthday was right after proposal day a couple days later and her she was sick on the way home from a producer and I've thought about you know how she was feeling and and it just like never went away and it just it built more and more and I was very open with Becca during that time and you know, I would tell her, hey, look, I'm thinking about Lauren. And I know I'm so sorry that I'm thinking about her. But, you know, it's such a weird way to end a relationship and start a new one. And she always said to me, you know, once you're fully in and once you're fully two feet into this relationship, let me know.

And that was sort of something that we always talked about. And obviously, you never got there. And then we broke up. But she was very supportive of me and we were very open and we talked a lot about. it and you know I feel terribly about the fact that I had to talk about this with her because you know she was my fiancee at the time and it's just so hard to think back on that time because you know a lot of a lot of emotions were happening and so you know fast forward to you know it was right before New Year's and you know New Year's you

always think about the one person you want to kiss on New Year's Eve and I just had this overwhelming feeling that I had to be with Lauren and that's sort of when the ball started rolling. So it was about a month of being engaged to Becca and then realizing that I needed to be with Lawrence. And then once that ball started rolling production jumped on it and they really sort of drove home the fact that, you know, we want to showcase this as a more of a love story. I mean, people always sort of argue with me on this, but, you know, I'm no dummy. You know, I know that if things get put on camera, then there's maybe a way that she could have became The Bachelorette, and I feel like production was hinting at that, not that they tell

me who they're going to pick or who they're not going to pick. But they said, you know, she would have that possible opportunity if we film things because it would give her time to heal and time to move on from it, and we could all explain it on the AFR, and, you know, hopefully we both get a happy ending out of all this. And that's sort of how the thing went because of Jason's season. It was such a shock for everybody. The live show, there was no one in the audience. It was just Chris, Jason, and, you know, the two of them.

And it was sort of awkward and it was difficult. And, you know, Melissa Rycroft felt completely blindsided. And I wanted to basically give everyone the opportunity to go along with me on this because I felt like that's what the whole show was. way. And I felt it would give people more context. And obviously I was being pushed to do that at the same point by production, you know, who at the time were your best friends and know the people that you lean on for advice. And so just looking back on all day, it was a wild time. But I feel like, you know, there was this overwhelming feeling that I had to do what was right for me.

And I just knew that Lauren was the person that I'd spend the rest of my life with. And that's what I needed to pursue. It is a crazy story. And, Ari, I'll say this. I don't know if anyone who has ever told you this. It is now, and it always has been, I guess, a beautiful love story bringing you now to your daughter, Alessi, who was born on May of 2019 and your terrific wife, who has came from this experience. Ari and Lauren will celebrate you as well as Alessi on this podcast. Thanks for coming on and sharing your insights today. I think, and I know what it will do is allow our listeners to get a perspective and hopefully relate with Peter a little bit. also know that, hey, he was under some tough, tough circumstances, and all we hope for now is what we've said really since your season, because we change our perspective on this podcast, is we just hope for a happy ending for everybody somehow, some way. Ari, Linedike, thank you for coming on the Almost Famous Podcast and talking to us about what it's like to do the Switcheroo, if it works or sometimes doesn't.

Thanks, buddy. Appreciate it. Hey, thanks, all right. All right, take it easy. We're going to take a break and come back and talk with Jason Meznik, the original switcher-rooer-er. My boyfriend's professor is way too friendly, and now I'm seriously suspicious. Wait a minute, Sam. Maybe her boyfriend's just looking for extra credit. Well, Dakota, it's back to school week on the OK Storytime podcast, so we'll find out soon.

This person writes, my boyfriend has been hanging out with his young professor a lot. He doesn't think it's a problem, but I don't trust her. he's insisting we get to know each other, but I just want her gone. Now, hold up. Isn't that against school policy? That sounds totally inappropriate. Well, according to this person, this is her boyfriend's former professor and they're the same age. And it's even more likely that they're cheating.

He insists there's nothing between them. I mean, do you believe him? Well, he's certainly trying to get this person to believe him because he now wants them both to meet. So, do we find out if this person's boyfriend really cheated with his professor or not? To hear the explosive finale, listen to the OK Storytime podcast on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast. I'm Dr. Scott Barry Kaufman, host of the Psychology Podcast. Here's a clip from an upcoming conversation about exploring human potential.

I was going to schools to try to teach kids these skills and I get eye rolling from teachers or I get students who would be like, it's easier to punch someone in the face. When you think about emotion regulation, like you're not going to choose an adapted strategy which is more effortful to use unless you think there's a good outcome as a reason. of it if it's going to be beneficial to you because it's easy to say like like go you go blank yourself right it's easy it's easy to just drink the extra beer it's easy to ignore to suppress seeing a colleague who's bothering you and just like walk the other way avoidance is easier ignoring is easier denial is easier drinking is easier yelling screaming is easy complex problem

solving meditating you know takes effort listen to the psychology podcast on the iHeart radio app Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hello, Puzzlers. Let's start with a quick puzzle. The answer is Ken Jennings' appearance on The Puzzler with A.J. Jacobs. The question is, what is the most entertaining listening experience in podcast land? Jeopardy Truthers, who say that you were given all the answers, believe in... I guess they would be Kenspiracy theorists.

That's right. Are there Jeopardy Truthers? Are there people who say that it was rigged? Yeah, ever since I was first on, people are like, they gave you the answers, right? And then there's the other ones which are like, they gave you the answers, and you still blew it. Don't miss Jeopardy legend Ken Jennings

on our special game show week of The Puzzler podcast. The Puzzler is the best place to get your daily word puzzle fix. Listen on the I-Heart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Adventure should never come with a pause button. Remember the movie pass era, where you could watch all the movies you wanted for just $9? It made zero cents, and I could not stop thinking about it.

I'm Bridget Todd, host of the tech podcast, there are no girls on the internet. On this new season, I'm talking to the innovators who are left out of the tech headlines, like the visionary behind a movie pass, Black founder Stacey Spikes, who was pushed out of movie pass the company that he founded.

His story is wild and it's currently the subject of a juicy new HBO documentary. We dive into how culture connects us. When you go to France, or you go to England, or you go to Hong Kong, those kids are wearing Jordans.

They're wearing Kobe's shirt. They're watching Black Panther. And the challenges of being a Black founder. Close your eyes and tell me what a tech founder looks like. They're not going to describe someone who looks like me and they're not going to describe

someone who looks like. looks like you. I created There Are No Girls on the Internet because the future belongs to all of us. So listen to There Are No Girls on the Internet on the IHurt Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. If a baby is giggling in the back seat, they're probably happy. If a baby is crying in the back seat, they're probably hungry. But if a baby is sleeping in the back seat, will you remember they're even there? When you're distracted, stressed, or not usually the one who drives them, the chances of forgetting them in the back seat are much higher.

It can happen to anyone. Parked cars get hot fast and can be deadly. So get in the habit of checking the back seat when you leave. A message from NHTSA and the Ad Council. This is a boys' podcast. There are no women guests today because we're talking about from a bachelor perspective what it's like to fall for multiple people. and two people that are on the podcast

actually went back and did a switcheroo. That was Ari Lindeke who most recently did it with his now wife and mother of his child, Lauren. And we also have Jason Meznik, one of my favorite people in the world now on the line talking about his experience as The Bachelor and what it's like

to do the switcheroo. Jason, welcome back to the Almost James podcast. What's up, buddy? Favorite people in the world? old? I love you, buddy. I think you know that. Yeah, thank you, buddy. I just recently saw Jason in Seattle at the Bachelor Live on stage show, and at the time I was hosting it. Jason and his wife were out there with me on stage, helping pass out a group date card. We were kind of laughing at the time of what life would look like if the coronavirus spread, because

that we had just gotten word, I think, that week that the very first case was in Seattle. And now look at us, Jason. I'm at home in Indiana with my parents, and, well, I guess you're probably still in Seattle. But wow, how life changes. Man, it is crazy. And, you know, because being here, I live in Kirkland where that, um, those first cases came out at a senior home in my hometown. So, uh, we were kind of feeling these, uh, the virus really early on. just hearing Kirkland. I mean, I think that's interesting.

How has it affected your life? If you've been around it since the beginning, you're one of the first cases were really close to your hometown. I mean, it's in your hometown. Has it affected your day-to-day life at all? Well, one, you know, there's no school. So the biggest thing is, you know,

they initially canceled school for two weeks. And then as of a week ago, they canceled it for the next month and a half. So a lot of it is, you know, parenting and trying to figure out, You know, how do we balance, you know, our work, if we can go into work with, you know, kind of a summer schedule for the kids. So that's probably the biggest challenge, I think, for every parent. Has it spread?

I mean, just to be clear, again, you, the first case of coronavirus was detected in the city that you live in. Has it spread quickly throughout the city, or has it felt like it's been a pretty isolated incident? No, I mean, I think the numbers show that I think that there's, um, you know, hundreds of cases now. And, you know, again, the people that we're seeing, you know, that are severely affected are people that are, you know, compromised immune systems. But there are, you know, I was, you know, I'm in real estate. So weirdly enough, uh, the real estate market hasn't slowed down at all, you know, people are buying houses like crazy because they still need places to live and interest rates are really low. But in any sense, like if you're like, what I see in

my day to day, if you're trying to sell a house, you may not want people in your house. house at all you know just the fear of spreading the virus that's good point so you are seeing you are seeing I mean nothing is really open right now as of as of today the only things that are open are really pharmacies and supermarkets jeez man that's it is wild like I don't know how to digest it like it's nothing we've ever seen like I remember where I was and what was happening at 9-11 but this you know it didn't physically you know impact my day-to-day life outside of watching the news This is everywhere. You know, you can't go to a restaurant.

You can't go to a bar. Every gym's closed down as of this morning. And then all of our kids are at home like it's summer. And, you know, the kids don't care. The kids feel like it's summertime. The, yeah, I can't imagine what's life right now to be a parent. And your kids don't probably, I mean, especially younger kids, don't understand what's going on. They don't understand how, in a sense, critical this time is.

And so, yeah, they're out there just laughing and enjoying themselves. Wouldn't you go to the park. when you go in movies, et cetera, and you have to tell them, sorry, like, you can go to the park, maybe you can walk, like, through the trails in the woods, you can kind of, like, get out and run around the street. But for the most part, kids, you've got to be stuck inside. It's got to be a crazy time to be apparent. Yeah, I mean, just weird.

You know, I think we're still trying to, like, you know, it's okay to go outside, but, you know, you're not tackling your friends like you would if you see somebody, you know, the people around here, at least the experts are saying, you know, it's okay to go out and do things. It's okay to go on a walk. It's okay to go on a hike. You know, it's okay to do those things, but just don't, you know, wrestle with people. Like if you're going to wrestle with your friends, don't do that kind of thing if you're a kid. Yeah.

Well, I don't know the last time you were wrestling with your friends, Jason, but it's been a while that I've wrestled with mine. So I think we're good there. Jason, speaking of wrestling, switching gears from the coronavirus, because today's podcast is a boys-focused podcast with bachelors who have fallen for multiple people at one time or done the switch. Rue. And we're obviously referencing Peter's season of The Bachelor, which just happened. First off, I've got to ask you, because I know sometimes you don't get to watch, did you watch Peter's season of The Bachelor? I didn't watch the whole thing, but Molly looped me in for the last couple episodes. You know, it seems like we always kind of get wind of what's going on somehow or some way,

but, you know, Molly wasn't able to figure that out. So she had me on kind of pins and needles, at least the last couple episodes. It's interesting how that happens. Before we get, do we dive in here, I remember that you and Molly were really some of the original two podcasters that broke down the Bachelor franchise. And now, sometimes you watch, sometimes you don't. Yeah, I mean, I don't know. For me, it's just, you know, I always felt like when you know so much about the whole process of how, how the show's made, the experience people go through, you know, like kind of back end of it has kind of dampered my excitement in watching. but at the same time, I get it.

You know, it's, for most people, it's just a break from reality. And it'd probably be a great thing if the show was on right now because it would give people a break from the panic that's going on and the rest of the real world. That's exactly what is.

And we hope today's podcast is that as well. We hope that the Almost Famous Podcast takes some time out of everybody's day. And it allows you to think about process and relate with and also reminisce on some of these former bachelor stories. So, Jason, we've got to dig into years.

As you watched during Peter's season, and we just talked about with Ari Lyndeike, Peter gets down to the final two. Madison leaves the show because her and Peter are not compatible, leaving Peter with one left, Hannah-Anne, and he proposes to Hannah-Anne, and he actually, during the proposal, mentions Madison's name, saying she had left, which some people would argue that it kind of took the luster and the excitement out of the proposal. But I want to start here, Jason. We talked to Ari about it, and I think it's an interesting perspective, leading up to that final moment, when you have a few people left, two people left, you're laying in bed the night before, you have an idea of what you're going to do, but yet you haven't done it yet. Walk us through what your situation was like, what it was like to be in that bed the night before a proposal that you knew was going to be on national television. God, that's a good point. I think I have a little bit different perspective just because, you know, I had a three-year-old at home at the time.

And I would say almost all of my thoughts were, okay, am I doing the right thing for my son? And obviously, you know, I went a long roundabout way to get to what was right for me. But I could say all I was thinking about is, okay, I've got to take myself out of the perspective a little bit and kind of figure out, am I doing what's right for my son? but I mean you know as well as I do that night before is it's like I don't think I slept a wink you know and then you know one you know mine was probably a little bit different because I I wasn't at that point in love with two people I knew I was going to pick Melissa and I didn't even have it really at that point a doubt that I was going to pick her I wish you know you know when you're laying in bed you know if I could go back and say like

I'm not going to propose of course I wouldn't like there's no reason you know that's the That's obviously one of the biggest mistakes that I made impacting her in a lot of other people's lives. But that night before, gosh, I mean, granted, it's a decade ago now. But I can remember not being able to sleep a wink, and I can remember production staff and audio people. And, you know, whoever works on the show coming and checking on me, you know, I felt like every 30 minutes. So maybe they just kept me awake. I don't know. So then you get up the next day.

You know that Melissa is the one that you're going to propose to. You're confident that this is the right decision. And we see this kind of with Peter. We see with Peter and with Ari is where we watch it and we celebrate for them. There's a love story that we think is being portrayed on television. But then it's not the ending. And all three of you have sat there and gone, uh-oh, I'm in love with somebody else. What is that process?

Like how do you get to the point of admitting that you're in love with somebody outside of the person that you're engaged to? Oh, man, you know, I think the challenge with the experience itself, and I wish, you know, the show is The Bachelor, and it's about getting engaged, but I think most people, when you're going through it, would say, don't you wish you could just end it in, like, let's date seriously? Because that's really after two months, I mean, I mean, after two months of filming or three months of filming, you may spend 40 hours with that. one person. So the truth is, me as a single dad should not have known, should not have done that. And anybody who's going through this, yes, some of the relationships work out, but most don't, just because you don't get to spend the quality of time with that person to get to know if your lives will work together, if you guys are compatible, and from every single part of it, A to Z. But I, you know, I think I knew, again,

I knew that I was going to pick Melissa from, you know, a while before that final episode. I just, you know, that feeling that, you know, maybe, maybe Ari had or Peter had, you know, it's probably a little bit different for me. How so? I just didn't have a doubt that, like, I knew that I was going to propose, I wanted to be with Melissa. I just didn't really want, you know, my gut said proposing was the wrong thing. And there was a lot of things that went into, you know, finally getting to the proposal. but for me it wasn't you know i you know molly knows this more than anything i wasn't going to pick molly

at that point after two months of that experience for me i was was going to pick melissa it was it was the two months and this is where like you almost feel like you know how they i think in big brother um uh they have like the off camera stuff like if you can log on at night and say and see like what you don't see on tv um so i think that you know you know as well as well as I do, like the two months that you have between kind of the end of filming and then, you know, I can't remember the exact timeline from the end of filming to when it starts airing to when, you know, you kind of go out in public, a lot happens. And that's actually a longer period of time than the actual filming itself. So I think, you know, Melissa and I got to know each other a lot.

And she's going to have a different point of view on this. But, you know, fast forward a decade now. she's married has wonderful family wonderful kids and so am i and you know i think without the show you know we may not be we may have not grown our families the way we're supposed to and it takes them you know me doing some really dumb things to get us there well and we talked about it's an interesting question for me because with you and r especially the switcheroo as we call it today worked. It didn't quite work for Peter, but there is some variables that we'll talk about here in a second on why it probably didn't for him. But why do you think the switch rule worked? I mean, how do you confront this other person and say, I'm sorry, I made a mistake

in a sense, and I would like you back, and then you make that relationship flourish to the point where now you're married years later with kids? Well, one, it takes a lot of work. You know, secondly, I'll say a lot of this has to do with Molly because Molly isn't the, oh my God, I can't believe you, you know, did this to me. Like, it's the worst experience. You pick somebody else. She's able to live in the moment and say, like, listen, I saw the first two months of a relationship in the TV experience for what it was. And the rest of it is just us, like trying to figure out our own relationship. So I give Molly the credit because if she was a, if she was looking at it probably much more emotionally, then it may not have worked out.

But, you know, there is that period of time, especially when, you know, you kind of come from the end of the show. And, you know, for us, it was like, you know, we had to, you know, people were angry at me. People weren't understanding of why she was taking me back. But that really, it was her and I against the world at that moment. You know, it was, hey, you know, we got to block out, you know, the negative media. We've got to block out any negativity from anybody that we know and really focus on does this work for us? And I think what was a lot more comfortable also was like there wasn't the engagement ring. There wasn't any of that.

It was like, hey, can we make this relationship work? In a really normal outside of like what the media would pick up just in a more normal way where I could fly, she was living in the Midwest and in Milwaukee. So I could fly out to Milwaukee, you know, every other week. And she could fly out to Seattle every other week. And we could see each other a lot and just like let the relationship go at a much more normal place versus you know that the speed pace you get on when you're filming the you just talked about it and you said you know it feels like it's you versus the world and your partner and you verse the

world and typically that's who you want a partner right somebody you can look at and look across the table at or look beside you and say hey we've got this we can do this no matter what life brings us here my partner there is one factor that seems to be be a force that was unable to be overcome when it comes to Peter's story, and that was Barb. Barb the mom was very much against Madison as he was trying to build this relationship with her. Did your family have any sort of say or strong opinions? Did your friends or family have any type of negativity towards this, or did they just kind of step away? I think they all stepped away. I mean, the one thing I heard with Barb was, you know,

just kind of saying he's going to make a mistake or he's got to learn for himself. you know, the only thing is, you know, and I try to look, put, you know, through Peter's experience, I'm actually less relating to him in, you know, the switcheroo part of it, but I'm also more relating to it as a parent because, you know, my son's 15 now. Like, he was three when we filmed. So I'm looking at it and I would say, like, I would do anything, like, I would drop anything in my world and I'm sure Barb would say that for her kids. But those were the moments where, like, he needed her the most.

He didn't need, in my opinion, he didn't need a lesson in front of millions of people. He needed his mom to give him a hug. He needed his mom to be the crutch. And I think that's where I, you know, you know, it wasn't, you know, it wasn't life or death. We're dealing with people with the virus right now where it is death. We're dealing with, you know, my dad's got cancer. We're dealing with people in a lot of different ways right now. And this was like, okay, my son made a mistake.

He shouldn't have done that. I get it and he really hurt somebody. But I'll tell you, everybody, Hannah Ann, and everybody involved with this will be just fine. Time does heal all wounds. And I just, again, putting my parent hat on, I just wish, and I hope to this day that he's got his family there just to support him. Because that's a big way I got through mine. My mom's one of my best friends. And any time that I ever need her for parenting advice, for relationship advice, from school stuff growing up,

grown up, I can always call my parents. Mm-hmm. Now you're right. And I just hope that that's the case, but it felt like if I was him sitting like I saw it in his eyes, it was like, Mom, come on. Like, don't you got my back? Mm-hmm. You know, that's what I felt like. And that's where I felt more for him, because as a relate, like, if you take the

Batsar out of it, like, we all go, like, we've all messed up in relationships. Like, it's, it's villainized and glorified and everything in between on, on camera. But that's probably how we are in our real relationships because we all make mistakes, good and bad. I was watching him, Jason. I was watching Peter, that is. And I cannot imagine what it would be like to be sitting on a live audience, knowing what just happened, knowing that you're close to the end and that you made it through a really difficult breakup on national TV, meaning Peters with Hannah-Anne. And now you have your mom kind of digging this hole for it for you. and continue to do it, it would really hurt.

I know it would. Like I said, I watched Peter and it felt like he just wanted to scream out, Mom, like I can't say what I want to say to you right now because it's going to come off wrong, but do you not support me? Like, do you not have my back? Do you not want what is best for me? And if my, I know how hard it is for a parent to go through this experience because you meet your child's fiancé for like a few hours one day, you know, and then you're

done and you're gone. I know that that's hard, but it's kind of what you all sign up for. And sometimes that works. And we have to always remember that. This just felt heavy watching it back because it was a mom saying and doing things that was not helping their child. Oh, it killed me. I mean, and I know, like, I mean, I said a teenager. I went from like being his best friend to being like, you know, a guy that drives him around to basketball practice now. But I would, you know, a chauffeur. So, I mean, but I would still do, like, you know, this is going to sound weird, but, like, even people who end up on, like, death row, I bet you their parents find some way to remember something positive about them, right? Because it's their kid.

Like, with your kids, and every parent knows this, like, you have unconditional love. With relationships, like, whether you say me or Melissa or my ex-wife or you and, you know, any relationship you've had, there are conditions, right? you could mess up, you could cheat, you could, you know, do some terrible things physically to somebody, but with your kids, it's unconditional. And it's almost what I felt the opposite of. And I know that there's more to every story, and she was probably just trying to protect her son from making a mistake. But I think everybody knows whether it's in your personal life, like our business, like we

all make mistakes. And almost, I mean, everything that we do, we make mistakes. but you've got to learn from them and grow from them. It's a part that intrigues me maybe with this whole story the most is how all of you got to the place where you sat down and you said, hey, I've maybe made a mistake, I've proposed or I'm with somebody that I shouldn't be, and I need to go back. And the other option was the best option for me and my future and who I want to be with. it has to take a lot to step out there and do that.

And now we see with Peter that he's done that and it hasn't worked out well for him. He sits there pretty isolated right now and alone, unlike you and Ari, who walked out of this with a relationship and a partner to look across the table at and say, hey, we've got this. Peter's now alone. And he's going to be fine also. Peter's a great dude. And, you know, he's already out there hanging out with people and probably moving forward from this. But, Jason, from your wise perspective, what should Peter's next steps be as a person, as in professionally, in relationships?

What does Peter do from here? Well, I mean, I think he's already, you know, the first thing I, you know, Good Morning America called and asked kind of a similar question. And I was like, he's already owned up for making a mistake. He's owned up on TV. He's apologized. You know, I think the hardest thing is, you know, you know, this, like you took the engagement away, that first engagement experience away from Hannah-Anne, which sucks.

Like, there's no doubt about it. But she will get that. She will move on. She will fall in love. I'm sure she'll have a great family. She's going to get a lot of fame from the Bachelor world. She's going to get everything and more and probably end up being in a happier place. But for him, he's got to learn from his experience, which I think he did.

and just, you know, again, this is my opinion, it's like, try to stay away from, you know, the negativity that you see in the social world. Like, it's very easy to get caught up in that. Like, I see it. Like, I don't pay a ton of attention to, like, the negativity in the social world, but Molly sees it all the time.

And she'll say, hey, like, for example, you know, Good Morning America wanted me to do this interview. And she's like, why would you do that? And I said, you know, I want to be able to tell people my perspective. And we talked a lot about Peter owning up to what he went through. And also similar to what we're talking about, like, why didn't his mom support him? And why wasn't she able to support him? But I think he's doing all those things.

But if he's able to support and surround himself by, like, the true people in his life, he'll be just fine. I mean, he comes across as super genuine. I've never met him. But, you know, he comes across as super genuine, a really good guy. And maybe those type of people, you know, maybe it's, you know, maybe it's usually. maybe it's me, maybe it's Ari, maybe it's Peter, that we're not cut out to be The Bachelor because we are a little bit more emotional than the next person. And that's okay too.

You know, I know it makes good for good TV. It does make good TV, and it helps people relate with our stories. I mean, the Meznik is still a move that feels like it's shown all the time, wherever I'm at, where it's just you bawling on the side of a stair, on a side of a, a, a, a, a, a, patio or whatever. And it still hurts this day because I know you're feeling it and I know what it's like to feel it. Jason, you are, you go down in history as one of Bachelor nations, honestly most talked about. And I mean, I know sometimes it probably didn't feel like it, but favorite bachelors because of how much we related with your story and how real and

raw you are. And it's led you to today where you're happily married with two kids. So Jason, Jason, thanks for giving us your time. Thank you for sharing your insights into what Peter's gone through, how you can recover from this, and what it's like to do the old switcheroo. Also, homeless famous listeners, if you live in the Seattle area and you're looking for a home, our guy, Jason Messnick, here on the line, is a realtor waiting to help you fulfill your dreams with your dream home. Jason, where can they contact you and find you at? Oh, God.

I mean, my contact info is everywhere. It's, uh, you can go to jasonmezznick.com as all my contact very information. And realistically, myself, 206, 66055, call me only if you really want to sell my thoughts. I am doing some weird, some weird, like, because my season's on Netflix now, I'm doing like all these, like, like, like as if it's happening today. Like, even somebody texted me this morning, but like, how did you do that to Melissa? I'm like, what do you mean?

decade ago? I love that. That's good stuff. That's a good joke to play on anybody, especially with whoever's pulling the strings over there at Netflix and ABC saying, hey, let's just bring back Jason's story 10 years ago to make sure he has to relive it, re-hear about it, and talk about it today. Good for you. Yeah, well, don't worry. You're going to be on there one of these days, I'm sure, for a whole rehash. Hey, Jason, you're appreciated, ma'am. Thanks a lot, and thanks again for coming on.

My boyfriend's professor is way too friendly, and now I'm seriously suspicious. Oh, wait a minute, Sam. Maybe her boyfriend's just looking for extra credit. Well, Dakota, it's back to school week on the OK Storytime podcast, so we'll find out soon. This person writes, my boyfriend has been hanging out with his young professor a lot. He doesn't think it's a problem, but I don't trust her. Now, he's insisting we get to know each other, but I just want her gone. Now, hold up.

Isn't that against school policy? That sounds totally inappropriate. Well, according to this person, this is her boyfriend's former professor and they're the same age. And it's even more likely that they're cheating. He insists there's nothing between them. I mean, do you believe him? Well, he's certainly trying to get this person to believe him because he now wants them both to meet. So, do we find out if this person's boyfriend really cheated with his professor or not?

To hear the explosive finale, listen to the OK Storytime podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. I'm Dr. Scott Barry Kaufman, host of the Psychology Podcast. Here's a clip from an upcoming conversation about exploring human potential. I was going to schools to try to teach kids these skills and I get eye rolling from teachers or I get students who would be like, it's easier to punch someone in the face. When you think about emotion regulation, like you're not going to choose an adaptive strategy which is more effortful to use unless you think there's a good outcome as a result of it if it's going to be beneficial to you.

Because it's easy to say like go you, go blank yourself, right? It's easy. It's easy to just strengthen. the extra beer. It's easy to ignore, to suppress, seeing a colleague who's bothering you and just like walk the other way. Avoidance is easier. Ignoring is easier. Denials is easier. Drinking is easier. Yelling, screaming is easy. Complex problem solving, meditating, you know, takes effort. Listen to the psychology podcast on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Don't let biased algorithms or degree screen.

or exclusive professional networks or stereotypes. Don't let anything keep you from discovering the half of the workforce who are stars. Workers skilled through alternative routes rather than a bachelor's degree. It's time to tear the paper ceiling and see the stars beyond it. Find out how you can make stars part of your talent strategy at tear the paper sealing.org. Brought to you by opportunity at work in the ad council. Hello, puzzlers. Let's start with a quick puzzle. The answer is Ken Jennings' appearance on The Puzzler with A.J. Jacobs.

The question is, what is the most entertaining listening experience in podcast land? Jeopardy truthers who say that you were given all the answers believe in... I guess they would be conspiracy theorists. That's right. Are there Jeopardy truthers? Are there people who say that it was rigged? Yeah, ever since I was first on, people are like, they gave you the answers, right? And then there's the other ones which are like, they gave you the answers and you still blew it. Don't miss Jeopardy legend Ken Jennings on our special game show week of The Puzzler podcast. The Puzzler is the best place to get your daily word puzzle fix.

Listen on the iHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Have you ever wished for a change but weren't sure how to make it? Maybe you felt stuck in a job, a place, or even a relationship. I'm Emily Tish Sussman, and on she pivots, I dive into the inspiring pivots of women who have taken big leaps in their lives and careers. I'm Gretchen Whitmer, Jody Sweeten. Monica Patton. Elaine Welter-off. I'm Jessica Voss.

And that's when I was like, I got to go. I don't know how, but that kicked off the pivot of how to make the transition. Learn how to get comfortable pivoting because your life is going to be full of them. Every episode gets real about the why behind these changes. and gives you the inspiration and maybe the push to make your next pivot. Listen to these women and more on She Pivotts, now on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What a podcast today. To end out the podcast, we're going to go through some hot topics, some headlines that are happening in Bachelor Nation right now. I don't have my amazing co-host, Ashley, like Kennedy here, to help.

me break them down. But I was going to read through them, and I want to hear from you all on your thoughts. As we've mentioned many times during this podcast, it is official. Peter Weber and Madison Pruitt have ended their relationship. It was a two-day relationship, but it was officially announced after the dramatic finale that showed Barb voicing her opinion on why they should not be together. That's what brought us here today to talk about all these things with all of these bachelors. In addition, Bachelor producer Julie Laplaca speaks out about

the rumors that she got romantic with Peter Weber. As we remember, oh, about halfway through the season this year, the rumors came out that Peter ended up actually with one of his producers. Now, we now know that that rumor is not true, and Julie has came out to speak out about it.

According to Cosmo, sounds like Julie and Peter are just friends. They are close. She was his date a day producer, which I can attest. Mine was a lady named Lindsay, and you do become very close. She knows everything about your romantic relationships, your personal relationships. She has met your family and your friends.

I get how you can become close. And so I believe it when I hear that Julie and Peter are just friends and their relationship blossomed from their time together on the show. Now, our Bachelor expert, huge fan of the show, massive fan of the podcast, Easton is here to tell us about the headline that says The Bachelor, Kelly Flanagan, reveals what Peter Weber's mom Barb told her at the finale. Easton, take it away. Thanks, Ben.

It's really an honor to be on this podcast. So, I mean, we know that Peter's mom, you know, she does not hide her opinions of some of the girls going, vying for her son's attention. But we just found out that Kelly Flanagan revealed that his mom Barb is a huge fan. She's a huge Kelly stand And she said She did not leave the finale Until she met Kelly in person

They just had small talk But Peter's mom did tell her You're beautiful, I love you I've been your fan since day one And they're supposed to go shopping I guess Oh man Isson Does it feel weird

That a mom of Peter Or Peter's mom Would say that to an X That Peter obviously Has broken up with And probably trying to move on from concerning the circumstances. Yes, absolutely.

And especially since we've seen from Peter, that he values the approval of his mother so much. And I just can't imagine what he's thinking and what's going through his mind as she makes this public display of her affection for Kelly. But yeah, she's a big Kelly fan. Well, Easton, thanks for that update. We appreciate your insight, always.

Now, we're going to go to the headline where our new Bachelorette, who has paused filming, Claire Crawley, has clapped back, I guess, according to Yahoo Entertainment, at her ex-Wan Pablo Galvez, she says this. According to Juan Pablo, he's popped up on Twitter again for the first time in a while, and he says, I just saw the guys for Claire Crawley Bachelorette season, and it's going to be interesting seeing her get hit on by kids in their 20s. I think this might be the third season I'm going to watch. Claire Crawley says back, and yet here you are, older than 99% of them and still can't practice compassion and kindness. It's actually interesting that Juan Pablo and Claire are still feuding over social media years later. Also interesting that Juan Pablo is back in the spotlight, I think according to most polls, Juan Pablo goes down as the least light. Batchelor of all time, and we haven't heard a lot from him recently, and now he's back and not in a good way, but he did respond to Claire saying, hey, all I want is for you to find

love, you are taking it the wrong way, Claire. I think he's saying that because I think the heat and the pressure on him was pretty intense following his criticism of Claire's men. Well, to end out this podcast, we talked about it with Ashley earlier this week, but Hannah Brown and Tyler Cameron have fueled dating rumors as they are together in Florida as we speak. And also, we just saw that Madison Pruitt and Selena Gomez have been hanging out together and doing a little date night. Good for them. Hey, friends should be friends. And if they want to hang out, they should be hanging out. Well, almost famous listeners. It's been a pleasure talking you today. It's been a pleasure talking to Ari and Jason and Easton. We've had a blast.

We will be back together next week with a few more podcasts. This week, as you continue to kind of be hunkered in and hibernating, know that we are out here virtually trying to put out some entertainment for you so that we can continue to stay communicative with you. We can continue to entertain you, give you the new news that it comes to bachelor nation, and just keep hanging out with you. Because honestly, during these times of isolation, we're going to miss people and miss connection. But I also hope during these times of isolation, you spend some time learning, refocusing, meditating, resting, relaxing, and getting ready to step back out into this world and join together in connection. Hey, we appreciate you. We love you with that. I've

been Ben. I've always wanted to do this. And I've been Easton. Oh, that makes me happy. We'll talk to you later all. Follow the Ben and Ashley I Almost Famous Podcasts on IHeartRadio or subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts. My boyfriend's professor is way too friendly and now I'm seriously suspicious. Wait a minute Sam. Maybe her boyfriend's just looking for extra credit. Well Dakota, luckily it's back to school week on the OK Storytime podcast so we'll find out soon.

This person writes, my boyfriend's been hanging out with his young professor a lot. He doesn't think it's a problem but I don't trust her. Now he's insisting we get to know each other but I just want her gone. Oh, hold up. Isn't that against school policy? That seems inappropriate. Maybe find out how it ends by listening to the OK Storytime podcast and the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Don't let biased algorithms or degree screens or exclusive professional networks or stereotypes.

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