The Ben and Ashley I Almost Famous Podcast - Bachelor Countdown Day 7: Ben Higgins

Episode Date: January 26, 2025

Ben tells a story involving a long bathroom visit with Kaitlyn and Shawn from his "Bachelor" days while diving deep into his top 3 choices from those awkward limo scenes. Ashley asks Ben some rather personal questions about his time in the fantasy suite as he shares when he knew that his chosen woman, Lauren Busnell, wasn't the one for him.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Let's start with a quick puzzle. The answer is Ken Jennings' appearance on The Puzzler with A.J. Jacobs. The question is, what is the most entertaining listening experience in podcast land? Jeopardy-truthers believe in... I guess they would be conspiracy theorists. That's right. They gave you the answers, and you still blew it.

The Puzzler. Listen on the I-Heart. radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, my name is Enya Humanzor. And I'm Drew Phillips. And we run a podcast called Emergency Intercom. If you're a crime junkie and you love crimes, we're not the podcast for you. But if you have unmedicated ADHD...

Oh my God, perfect. And want to hear people with mental illness, psychobabble. Yes, yes. Then Emergency Intercom is the podcast for you. Open your free IHeartRadio app. Search Emergency Intercom and listen now. Every case that is a cold case that has DNA. Right now in a backlog will be identified in our lifetime.

On the new podcast, America's Crime Lab, every case has a story to tell. And the DNA holds the truth. He never thought he was going to get caught. And I just looked at my computer screen. I was just like, ah, gotcha. This technology is already solving so many cases. Listen to America's Crime Lab on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, it's Honey German, and I'm back with season two of my podcast.

Grazias, come again. We got you when it comes to the latest in music and entertainment with interviews with some of your favorite Latin artists and celebrities. You didn't have to audition? No, I didn't audition. I haven't auditioned in like over 25 years. Oh, wow. That's a real G-talk right there. Oh, yeah.

We'll talk about all that's viral and trending with a. a little bit of cheesement and a whole lot of laughs. And, of course, the great bevras you've come to expect. Listen to the new season of Dresses Come Again on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. This is the Ben and Ashley I, Almost Famous Podcast with IHeart Radio. Hey, everyone. Welcome to the Almost Famous Podcast. Today, we are continuing our countdown to grand season by interviewing former bachelors.

today's bachelor is Ben Higgins. Wow. Wow. We were joking before starting recording that this could be the easiest interview that we've ever done here on the almost famous podcast, or it could be the hardest. Uh-huh. Time will tell. Ben, are you worried about some of the questions that I might ask?

Because, you know, I do ask some scary questions to our, to our guests. Yeah. And today, um, our producers have. have written questions that I have been curious about, but I wasn't sure I was going to be brave enough to ask, but since we're both thinking it, I might have to. But I'm going to blame them for being the ones that really put it on paper. Yeah, I haven't seen the rundown. I chose not to look because I just want, I want to be interviewed. It's been so long since I've done a deep dive into that season that this is exciting for me.

me you don't scare me so i am the least scary person of all time we all know this everybody maybe not to some of the past bachelors i think that's true zach was scared yeah actually you got me like i don't know about this um no this will be great i cannot wait to reminisce i here's the only thing i want to start with though will be please forgive me if i don't remember that is such a a distant part of my life, not in terms, and I've said this many times, I'm very grateful for that opportunity. I had met some amazing people, but my life has moved on so much from then, not in terms of my disassociation of the show. I want to support the show, just mostly with time, that there will probably be things that I forget, and you'll have to maybe remind me, but I'll love to

speak into it once you remind me. So, Ben, we'll start off with, when did you know you're going to be The Bachelor. And I want you to say dead truth. Like, I knew that they were gunning for me during Caitlin's season at this point. Yeah. I'd say the first moment that I realized something was

up. So when we were in the house, in the mansion, I will say, I don't remember many guys. I don't really remember anybody there that was looking for becoming the Bachelor. I remember some people talking about it. I remember

paradise being brought up. And then I kind of remember those conversations never being that existent in our house. So it never felt like anybody was there pushing to be the lead. It wasn't until San Antonio.

Did way. Yeah, I started to feel like I'm being treated a little differently than most here. It was the moment when Sean and I were roommates. Yeah. And Caitlin snuck into our room and, you know, her and Sean had a conversation or whatever they did right next to me in the bathroom

and I was very much not invited to that party and in the bathroom yeah and I left no I went to the bathroom I went to the bathroom to give them privacy how long did you spend in the bathroom a long time most of the evening into the wee mornings we hours of the morning do you sleep in the tub I sat on the floor I just I kind of I think I fell asleep like I I and so that was very early on in the season and I remember leaving the hotel and not being upset because it was so early on and I really didn't know what I was getting myself into and I had felt very uncomfortable the whole time I remember going to one of the producers after they had already asked me if Caitlin

came into our room so I did not out her I want to be clear I was not the one to tell anybody that she was there. This was a secret I kept for multiple days. It was three days later, and a producer came to me and said, did Caitlin sneak into your room? I said, yes. They asked me what happened. I explained.

I said, you know, the truth of this is, I think I want to go home. Like, if I'm not, if I'm just a burden here, then I need to go home because I don't want to just be like another cog in the wheel and it makes it easier for everybody. And I understand where I'm at and the position I'm in. I'm just going to go home. And they said, let's think, let's talk about it. They came back to me that evening and they said,

we really want you to stay and Caitlin wants to talk to you. So Caitlin has this like very friendship conversation with me where she's like, you know, on camera? It was on camera. It never got showed because they never really showed any of that. It would have probably ruined the season, right? Yeah. Uh-huh.

She, you know, the producers had asked me to keep it quiet. And so I did. I didn't tell anybody else really. I don't think. maybe I told Jared Jared had been the only one I would have told but they

she has this very friendly conversation with me like a lot can change before the end and I really want you here you're a place of fun and comfort and all those things and I left the conversation

I said if you know what I'll stay like why not this will be fun I was convinced this could be a good experience I didn't really know what that was at the time but it was

a seed my mind that the show had talked to her and been like, hey, you can't let this guy go right now. Like he can't, you can't let him go home yet. We need him here a little longer. Then I get eliminated from the show. We're in Dublin. And I'm, I'm sitting in my hotel room with my producer at the time, Megan. And the executive producer at the show back thing comes in. And she sits with me. And she's asking me how I'm doing. And she's talking to me about everything and how, you know, how the experience was. And at the end of that conversation, he goes, how would you like to be the bachelor?

And I was like, this seems very soon. It seems very early. I feel like I'm still getting tricked. I feel like I'm still in this world. And this might be the earliest they've ever asked somebody that seriously. Yeah. So I, you know, we kind of, that conversation came and went and I went back home. And then I started hearing rumors of other guys getting, you know, the interviews and

there's rumors of other guys that were going to be chosen. And it wasn't until a few months before the show that they called me and they actually asked officially. But there was a good few months in between the airing of the show. And when they asked that I was kind of hesitant or thinking, no, this isn't for me. I mean, I went back to work. I was kind of getting back into a rhythm. So it was a while.

But now looking back, I should have been smart enough to be like, they, they treated me differently. They certainly did. On your night one, totally honest, who was your top three coming out of the limo? It's a good question. I mean, I think night one is really such a blur for any bachelor or bachelor. It happens so fast. But I remember being, it was Beckatilly for sure, because Beckett.

and I had talked before the season started, and I had said, hey, I'm going to be The Bachelor. If you're interesting coming on, come on. And she did. And she was great. And I was so excited that she took that risk to come back a second time. Olivia, obviously. Got the final first impression, Rose. Yeah. And then Jen Salviano. So, like, those were the three that I remember on night one just being super, like, they stood out. But even then, it's it's so hard to tell you have like five minute interactions with each so with becca what was the extent of your communication before the show we she had i think either we had ran into each other somewhere and we were mostly in a very like friendly like texting place flirty friendly yeah yeah

yeah and just kind of conversing back and forth talking about the show uh joking back and forth with each other. It wasn't super extensive. So there wasn't this everyday type of thing. It was once a week, you know, once every couple weeks. It was, hey, how's this going for you kind of stuff? And I think once I was announced as The Bachelor, that became like a less of a friendly thing and more of a, hey, what like, what should I do was the question? And I said, you should come on if that's something you're interested in doing. During that conversation, too, because we were able to talk before the show,

I had told her, and this will be funny later on, not funny. It's funny now. Because, obviously, we're great friends. I had told her, hey, because if you do come on and you risk this situation, I will never make you be eliminated

in an unfair way, like at a rose ceremony. Like, I will always do it one-on-one and explain everything, okay? Did you promise her a certain point? Like, I'm not going to eliminate you in the first couple weeks? No, goodness, no. I never said that. No, there was never that.

It was just, hey, if you do get eliminated, I will always do it, like, in a better way than how everybody else is. Because for me, and I think for her, she was in a different world, right? She'd come off of the last season. She was risking it again coming on this season. her family right was going to be involved again there was so many things and so that was my hope now i didn't stick to my promise and she got really mad about it we're in worse on diana she's still there and at that point um i i knew that we weren't uh going to you know be up be there at the end but beck was always kind of in the top because she's such a joy to be around she's such a joyful human she's so fun

she got the process and the girls loved her right like her and jojo were best friends they still are uh and so it was like such a cool uh i felt like maybe i was oblivious i felt like it was such a cool last you know eight people because everybody's having so much fun we're figuring this thing out traveling the world but in warsaw and i kind of come to this realization oh my gosh next week is hometowns yeah i don't want to put her family through this again. I don't want to put her through this again if I know this isn't going to be the one at the end, even though she could be there. And so I'm like coming to this realization right before the rose ceremony. And so I eliminate Beckett in Warsaw. And we go and I specifically

said, Becca, I want to walk you out. She said yes. And we sit down the bench in Warsaw. And she goes, you promised you wouldn't do this to me. And I was like, I know. And I'm sorry. I don't know what else to do. Because was she the only one eliminated that rose ceremony? Because you had a two-on-one that week. Did you have a two-on-one?

No, you didn't have a two-on-one. So then, was she the only one eliminated at the rose ceremony so that you couldn't do it at the cocktail party? Because one of the twins went home after visiting my parents' house. Yeah, exactly. That's what I remembered. Yeah. I remember somebody got eliminated in another way. Yeah.

So it was like a very brutal. brutal moment from me because and my hope was that you know becca and i would always stay connected and we have she's one of the closest people to me on the show still but at first i think she was really upset like i think she was really mad that i didn't give her the respect that i promised i would give her and i think that was a fair thing and it was one of those moments that you're sitting there and you're like i don't know what i can do like there's nothing i can do about this other than you have every right to get so mad at me right now. My boyfriend's professor is way too friendly, and now I'm seriously suspicious.

Wait a minute, Sam. Maybe her boyfriend's just looking for extra credit. Well, Dakota, it's back to school week on the OK Storytime podcast, so we'll find out soon. This person writes, my boyfriend has been hanging out with his young professor a lot. He doesn't think it's a problem, but I don't trust her. Now, he's insisting we get to know each other, but I just want her gone. Now, hold up. than against school policy? That sounds totally inappropriate. Well, according to this person,

this is her boyfriend's former professor and they're the same age. And it's even more likely that they're cheating. He insists there's nothing between them. I mean, do you believe him? Well, he's certainly trying to get this person to believe him because he now wants them both to meet. So, do we find out if this person's boyfriend really cheated with his professor or not? To hear the explosive finale, listen to the OK Storytime podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Hi, my name is Enya Umanzor. And I'm Drew Phillips. And we run a podcast called Emergency Intercom.

If you're a crime junkie and you love crimes, we're not the podcast for you. But if you have unmedicated ADHD... Oh my God, perfect. And want to hear people with mental illness, psycho babble. Yes, yes. Then Emergency Intercom is the podcast for you. Open your free IHeart Radio app. Search Emergency Intercom and listen now.

Imagine that you're on an airplane and all of a sudden you hear this Attention passengers, the pilot is having an emergency and we need someone, anyone to land this plane. Think you could do it? It turns out that nearly 50% of men think that they could land the plane with the help of air traffic control. And they're saying like, okay, pull this, do this, pull that, turn this. It's just... I can do it my eyes close. I'm Manny.

I'm Noah. This is Devon. And on our new show, no such. thing, we get to the bottom of questions like these. Join us as we talk to the leading expert on overconfidence. Those who lack expertise lack the expertise they need to recognize that they lack expertise. And then as we try the whole thing out for real. Wait, what? Oh, that's the run right. I'm looking at this thing. Listen to no such thing on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

thinks they'd never join a cult. But it happens all the time to people just like you. And people just like us. I'm Lola Blanc. And I'm Megan Elizabeth. We're the host of Trust Me, a podcast about cults, manipulation, and the psychology of belief. Each week we talk to fellow survivors, former believers, and experts to understand why people

get pulled in and how they get out. Trust me. New episodes every Wednesday on Exactly Right. Listen wherever you get your podcasts. we had the most fun week after you eliminated her she was like i don't like want to i don't feel like going home yet so she came over she slept over at my apartment for three days and we basically took we did takeout for every meal and we watched gray's anatomy a day long it was so fun did she was she was no not at all no she didn't give me much details you know but she's just like bummed but

I was hoping you would be like, yeah, she was like just ripping you a new one. No. Okay. So that means that you were more into Becca than you were into, say, like, Amanda and Kayla. I don't know if that is a fair statement. I think at that point, so many of them kind of existed within the same sphere. Like they were all like on the same level. And then there was Lauren and Jojo.

Yeah. I'd say that would be the fair statement. My concern with Amanda, again, I feel very lucky because if you look at the list of people that were on that season, you're like, this was the most incredible group of all time. And I would stick to that and I would scream it from mountaintops. And everybody's happy and healthy and doing their thing today. I didn't know about Amanda because it wasn't at that level, right? like she wasn't going to be there at the end. That was very obvious to me at that point.

And she had two kids. Yeah. And I had said, I don't want to go to her hometown because you're bringing kids into this. That feels weird. That feels messy. And the show was like,

yeah, but kind of what they did with me. I think they really wanted Amanda to be the lead of this next season. I thought that it made sense to me. It would have been an amazing lead. They saw her. her as like an Emily Maynard part too.

Yeah. And I think for Mia, it made sense. And I didn't want to take that away from her. Now, looking back, I don't think it would have mattered if she went home in the top five or the top four or whatever that was. But I, in my naive mind, and I'm trying to

go back to this time, thought, I'm doing the right thing by giving her this opportunity to become the next season's lead by going to her hometown. Well, I still think Amanda would say thank you, I think she'd be glad that that happened. And I don't think that Kinsanchar think it was anything other than cool. I don't think they even probably remember it.

Yeah. But I'm going back to a place where at the time it is your world, right? So you don't know the outcomes or the results from any of these decisions. And so for me, you're trying to weigh all those options. And you're like, okay, since I am the one making the decisions here, this does feel like, the right decision to do. So, but it wasn't that I wasn't, I was uninterested. I was very excited about it.

It just wasn't, I just knew where the outcome was going to, going to be. And so we went back to her hometown with her kids. I had asked the show to be respectful of that, given what I knew was going to be happening. And everything went awesome. I had a blast.

Her kids are great. Family's awful. awesome. Amanda's great. And then I think, you know, the big moment for me, the moment where I got the maddest I ever was on the show was when they asked me to tuck the kids in at night. Oh, I remember this now. What in the F? Yeah. And I was like, no, I'm not doing it. I'm not doing it. But then you're sitting. So you have to like, this will get a little bit of a scope to like the decisions you have to make as the lead. You're in the family room with the whole family. They go, hey, the kids are upstairs,

are going to bed, Ben, you want to go up there? And you're sitting there like, I got two options. Say no. And then bring up a whole array of questions from everybody sitting in the room. Or say yes, and just do it and hope for the best. And so I was like, all right, let's go. Because I didn't want, I felt like if I said no,

everybody would be questioning that. Amanda would read through the lines there. This could blow up in my face. and so I went upstairs and then that's when I went out to the van and just blew a gasket. What did you say to them? A lot of things I

should have said, honestly, I think. Mostly, you you know, you commit, like, you've asked me to trust you all and these are the moments why I don't. You've put me in a situation that can affect others when I've tried so hard to not do that.

I think I was in the right. I think the show thought I was in the right. I think every producer there was like, I get it. This sucks. But like, it's good TV. And they'll be all right. Those kids will recover. So the other time you blew a gasket with the show was when you were running for office in Colorado, Congress, the house.

and then they told you after already being involved in running that you had to stop. Can you tell us this story? Yeah. So, I mean, there's a long backstory to that. So I get off the show and I had always talked and I still to this day have an interest in getting involved in my community in some way. So I always thought it would be fun to be on a city council. I always thought it would be fun to be in some situation where I was in the know, it's something I desire and making decisions that feel logical and rational on behalf of, you know,

the community around me. To what scale, to what degree? I don't really know, but it was always something that intrigued me. And I had brought this up when we were filming the show, probably with some producers over dinner. So I get off the show, and right away, they have this idea. What if we did kind of a docu-series show about you running for office and we helped support the whole thing financially and we film the whole thing and then maybe one day you're in office and at the time because I was 26 with no money I was I thought this is an incredible opportunity if I'm going to be

able to run for office and have somebody support it at the scale that they could then I'm going to say yes and so I said yes and signed a contract for a show that's an important note Well, I don't know necessarily the behind the scenes of what happened, but I went through the whole process. Got my name on the ballot, advocated for myself around my community, had so many 5 o'clock in the morning breakfasts, and then filmed a show of all this stuff. And I got my name on the ballot in the night of my celebration party for doing that,

which was a big accomplishment. They call and they say, you need to pull out the race. Because, and here's their reasoning, and here's legally what I can say, but what is true is they said they found out recently from some of their attorneys that when you run a political campaign on TV, you have to show whoever the person's running against equal amounts,

which is a true thing. It's true fact, yeah. And I don't know if this was just them not knowing and figuring out at the last moment with wild timing or if this was strategic in whatever way or if they said, hey, this isn't going to be a great look. I don't know.

I have no idea what the situation necessarily behind the scenes was. But that's what I was told. And I had to. And you flipped out. Oh, I flipped out. When do you flip out? I flipped out when, well, right there, because this is my community around me, right?

These are the people, like at this point, I was still recently off the show. so this had gotten national coverage that I was running. I had convinced everybody in the community that this wasn't some set up for more attention. And so me backing out makes everything that I said and tried to claim within the people in my neighborhood go, no, this is exactly what it was.

It was a seat. And it leaves the seat wide open. Yeah. And so there was a lot of, there was a lot of, I'd say, pain right after me as the bachelor's, that happened because the people around me in my community very much lost trust in me. And they should have. They should have. I mean, everything I claimed ended up being false, that I was doing it

for X, Y reasons, and that I wanted to be involved. And I thought, you know, this was a good opportunity to do it. And so I was really mad. I was really mad that I was put in a position for so many around me would lose trust. And then long term, I got even madder when they're like, yeah, but you still got to do a show um yeah you're like oh i thought my show was going to be about this not about planning a wedding primarily yeah yeah to somebody who probably doesn't really want to marry me yeah somebody's not we're not talking um no we still were uh that was that was not quite yet uh but the show i definitely knew was not going to be a healthy uh strategy uh for the future and so but i was i had signed a contract and said no to other opportunities

because that show was under contract and it was not necessarily something that I was excited about doing and it was definitely not something that I had planned on ever wanting to do is to give that kind of scope into a life that already felt chaotic.

Okay, we're going to go back to the show for a second and then we'll go back to happily ever after if you don't mind. So back to The Bachelor, where you are now down to your top three and you're going to fantasy suites. You have Jojo, Lauren, and Kayla. This is a question that the producers have written down that I didn't, I don't know that it's true. You could ask anything, Ashley. You don't have to be hesitant here.

I'm so hesitant. The producers of our show seem to think that you didn't sleep with these girls in the fantasy suite. and I do not believe that is true. Why do they think that, you think? I'm, because you, because you didn't have sex with Jess, I guess, before you guys got married. I'm pretty sure you slept with all these girls in the fantasy suite, except for Kayla, who I don't think got to a fantasy suite. Why do you think all of that? Where are you getting that from?

Where am I getting that from? Because didn't you eliminate her before the fantasy suite part of the show? Uh-uh. No. Oh, she did go to the fantasy suite. Yeah. Okay. So I actually think you slept with. all of them. That is not a true statement. Okay.

And that's why I'll leave that question. So I think there's two out of the three and we'll have to figure out which... Why do you think that? Oh, it could have been one. No, I just... Why? You're flipping the awkwardness onto me. You asked.

I think you definitely did it with Jojo. You have no basis for that thought. I have no idea. I just am going off. Pure guts. Yeah. So you'd rather me float around rumors than you just tell us? Yeah, I would.

Okay. All righty. So it really comes down to Jojo and Lauren in the end. And I, you know, you were, of course, the famous person who said, I love you to two people first. As we establish almost every week here on the Almost Venus podcast, it's just not a big deal anymore. Do you, did you really truly not know who you're going to pick that week? No, I didn't. I really didn't.

Which is so weird to say. And then be so confident in the decision at the end. Yeah. I was. Yeah. I think there was this storyline going on at the time that was never shown. That was so vital in my decision making. And actually, I would love to talk to a producer and actually know if it was actually happening.

No, I know it was. Well, can you tell? Yeah, I'll tell you. I don't think it would be... I don't think it just wasn't shown. Yeah. You know, hometowns every week at the end are so vital in this process. Hometowns were extremely important to me.

And I had the experience, and I think you saw it, where, you know, Joja's family was very not in favor of this process, which is wild because she came to the Bachelorette. And I get it. Maybe they just didn't like me. That's fine. there's no such thing as nobody liking then especially if you're going to be a potential boyfriend like you are every like i don't trust every parent wants ben higgins to come home

her brother's muscles are really big and i think they're questioning me they're like do you work out because it doesn't look like it um they they were hard they were tough uh and they should be maybe they i think they probably were you know fueled before i walked in to be tough but they were tough And it was awkward, and it was weird. And it was by far the most awkward hometown I had. Yeah. And I walked out of it being like, I can't, I can't even consider what this would look like. And so that played a huge role in my decision making towards the end, right?

Really? The family's acceptance or at least desire to, like, give this a chance was very important to me. So you didn't think it was maybe them putting on an act for TV or being to in full, influenced by producers? I should have. Yeah. I don't think I did. But we get to Jamaica.

We're there for two weeks. And I get this call that says that her brother, oldest brother, is coming down to Jamaica to talk to me because he feels bad about how everything went down. And then he never, like, fully, I think he did show up for a second. But it was never,

it was like we weren't communicating. It was like he wasn't, there to apologize or walk me through what happened at hometowns it was like he was there to continue on the conversation we had back there so it like really made me confident and and i don't really know what was happening during that but he was like there and i thought he was there to like clear the water which would have been awesome but he it was instead it was there to like double down i think and i walked out of that being very confident in my um at least where my my thought on where the family stood and that really kind of that got towards the last week and it really

was kind of the deciding factor for me to say okay either i walk out of this thing saying with the white flag saying i can't make a decision or i say hey i'll go with the you know with the place that feels like it's the right thing and i think the show i don't know um but i think the show had their ideas too for how this should play out and i think they were trying to trying really hard to make that play out the way they did. Are you saying that they really wanted Jojo to be The Bachelorette? I say that. That's my opinion, obviously.

But then I know after the show was done airing, Kayla was like filming B-roll to be the Bachelorette. And so I don't know if they were that convinced, honestly. I look at that last two weeks and there's still a lot of confusion on how it all played out the way it did. I've never questioned the decision I made, though. So that's one thing. I think we were talking about that with one of the bachelors

that we were interviewing leading up to this. When the decision was made, I never looked back and had the what-ifs. It was how it was supposed to play out. Obviously, look at my life now. I was always very confident in whatever path was moving forward. But I am confused about that kind of last week on how that all went down the way it did.

But Lauren was pretty convinced that you were having what-if. Am I wrong? Oh, I mean, I think that's just natural. Yes. I mean, I think it's always the comparison. And then every interview you do post-show, you know, the questions are brought up comparing the two. And so I think having those, what if ideas are natural in that moment, especially coming off of it and watching it and seeing how conflicted I really was. um yeah there's a lot of interesting like takes from that because at the time

i felt like this is the biggest hardest decision i'd ever make it should have never i don't think it should ever be that hard like when you know you know right so you should have known in that moment that neither of them was going to be your girl i think that's the only what if i've ever had is like why did i go through with any of it um And not because it wasn't great and real and fun and, like, excited, but it was like, it wasn't right. It wasn't the right thing. And so that's the only question I now have today is, was I confused? Maybe, but then you look at it and you're like, no, it makes, for me, it does make sense on how I got to that point. And that's why I would never give any lead, any, uh, critical opinion when they are at the end, like, Tossed in emotion. My boyfriend's professor is way too friendly, and now I'm seriously suspicious.

Well, wait a minute, Sam. Maybe her boyfriend's just looking for extra credit. Well, Dakota, it's back to school week on the OK Storytime podcast, so we'll find out soon. This person writes, my boyfriend has been hanging out with his young professor a lot. He doesn't think it's a problem, but I don't trust her. Now, he's insisting we get to know each other,

but I just want her gone. Now, hold up. Isn't that against school policy? That sounds totally inappropriate. Well, according to this person, this is her boyfriend's former professor, and they're the same age. And it's even more likely that they're cheating. He insists there's nothing between them. I mean, do you believe him?

Well, he's certainly trying to get this person to believe him because he now wants them both to meet. So, do we find out if this person's boyfriend really cheated with his professor or not? To hear the explosive finale, listen to the OK Storytime podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Imagine that you're on an airplane, and all of a sudden you hear this. Attention passengers. The pilot is having an emergency and we need someone, anyone, to land this plane. Think you could do it? It turns out that nearly 50% of men think that they could land the plane with the help of air traffic control. And they're saying like, okay, pull this, do this, pull that, turn this. It's just, I can do my eyes close. I'm Manny. I'm Noah. This is Devin.

And on our new show, no such thing, we get to the bottom of questions like these. Join us as we talk to the leading expert on overconfidence. Those who lack expertise lack the expertise they need to recognize that they lack expertise. And then as we try the whole thing out for real. Wait, what? Oh, that's the run right. I'm looking at this thing. Listen to no such thing on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Hi, my name is Enya Humanzor. And I'm Drew Phillips. And we run a podcast. called Emergency Intercom. If you're a crime junkie and you love crimes, we're not the podcast for you. But if you have unmedicated ADHD... Oh my God, perfect. And want to hear people with mental illness, psychobabble.

Yes, yes. Then Emergency Intercom is the podcast for you. Open your free IHeartRadio app. Search Emergency Intercom and listen now. The Super Secret Festi Club podcast season four is here. And we're locked to. That means more juicy cheesement Terrible love advice

Evil spells to cast on your ex No, no, no, no, we're not doing that this season Oh, well this season we're leveling up Each episode will feature a special bestie And you're not going to want to miss it Get in here! Today we have a very special guest with us Our new super secret bestie

is The Deva of the People The Deva of the People I'm just like text your ex My theory is that if you need to figure out that the stove is hot Go and touch it. Go and figure it out for yourself. Okay. That's us.

My name is Curley. And I'm Maya. In each episode, we'll talk about love, friendship, heart breaks, men, and, of course, our favorite secrets. Listen to the Super Secret Bestie Club as a part of the Michael Thura podcast network available on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. So, Ben, when did you know it wasn't going to work out with Lauren? The first, okay, maybe not when you first, when you definitely knew, but when did you start being like, oh, no, oh, no, oh, no. Yeah, I mean, was it as early as your first happy couple?

Oh, goodness, no. Oh, okay. I mean, I think, I think then it's, you kind of toss it up to this is a strange environment. I don't want to say, which, you know, lead I've talked to about this. recently. But happy couples, even for the happiest of couples, are really hard. Because the show's airing, uh, you're doing interviews. The lead is, is typically getting whisked away to go on TV somewhere while the other person just kind of sits there and waits. Um, I think you toss up those, that season of life too. It is, it's not natural. It's difficult. And, and, you toss up. And,

And unless the two of you have a clear understanding, I think most people within that season, even for the Golden Show, are probably having a hard time. Because there's a lot of conversations you shouldn't be having with somebody that you're with. Like, yeah, sorry about that. You had to watch it last night and then get reminded of it in two days. Yeah, no, it wasn't then. I'd say the first time I really started thinking that and on that path was during happily ever after was it felt like at some point. I think it kind of happened slowly was like we were work colleagues, like we were just filming a show and doing it and then going back. And I think at that point it felt like this isn't a.

team atmosphere this isn't a like this should be more fun it should be a lot easier we shouldn't be um knocking heads so much during the process um we should both be happier right like you should both be in a happier place this should be a great opportunity you know and i i'm i was at the time not wanting to do that show but also thankful for the opportunity to be filming a show and making an income and that people were at least a little bit interested in life and in our life and it and it's I think it was a slow fade to a place where uh we were just colleagues like there was no there was no partnership I'm going to end with um something kind of serious so sorry because we talk about fun fluffy stuff all the time and we will talk about you know your life

with Jess and your baby legit within the next couple weeks here. So we'll save baby talk for that podcast when it comes. More downloads. Yes, we had a conversation. Yes, exactly. We had a conversation with crystals this week

about drinking and you have been open, especially in your book, about your addictions to painkillers. How was going through The Bachelor having been a former addict? Just like such an emotion. process. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I think maybe the benefit I had was because I was no longer

addicted at that time, I had done some work on re-assimilating myself with really hard emotions. Because for me, I think a lot of my addiction came from a numbing process of not wanting to confront certain behaviors, life choices. the place I was at in life, insecurity, all those things. And so I was numbing those, that pain through addiction. And so I had, you know, I had been clean for a few years going into that show. And I feel like I was at least somewhat prep because I was very comfortable

confronting really hard things that I was dealing with. um i also uh had a very strict drink limit for myself on the show when i was the lead i didn't there was only one moment that i i let loose and that was in the bahamas on like a boat and if you get me on any boat like i'm letting loose like i just love the water um you know i look back i wish i would let loose a little more had a little more fun with it you know you can look back and think that but i had a very strict limit for myself because i didn't want to go through this process having that like social anxiety the next morning when you're like why did i say what i said why did i do what i do did um i was very nervous about how uh to communicate with every woman

because um it might be the last thing you really get to say to them uh before they're gone and i just really was i remember going into the show with this everybody has their own very well well-intentioned thoughts going into the show. Some might be, these women are lucky. Mine maybe was, mine was, how crazy is it that 30 people are giving up this much of their life to be here for as long as they're going to be here? And I think on my speech on the first night that I wrote,

I just, and I meant it, and I still mean it to this day, and I still hope it's the case to this day. Because I am still. is I was just hopeful that every person would leave thinking I'm glad I did it. I didn't know what that would look like. I think everybody feels that way. I hope so.

I think some people probably have some resentment and anger and especially with the breakup. I think there were sides chosen based on friendship and kind of loyalty, and that's fine. But I was just hoping that every person left and was like, I'm glad he did it for whatever reason that may be.

Now, night ones are a little harder to convince that they're glad they did it. But if you're there for a few weeks, I was hoping you'd at least look back and was like, that was a cool experience and it was a great opportunity. Yeah. So, oh, so back to your question.

And so it wasn't that hard for me. I really don't remember many moments where I was like, I need to numb anything. If anything, I kind of went with the strategy of I need to lean in to whatever it is I'm experiencing. Mm-hmm. all right i i totally that's a that's a great response my final question for you is how it felt to be called the perfect ben i know that that was heavy on you yeah and like looking back do

you still feel like cringy about that label yeah yeah it doesn't fit and it never did it does fit though like do you get a do you do you still feel weird at the fact that you are definitely look back upon as one of the favorite bachelors as one of the ones that did it right no i actually like when you say that like that feels very nice to hear um i hope i guess i hope in my life when i make big decisions that people see it and say hey you did the best you could um and that you know you you did it in a way that maybe was relatable that showed your faith even though it wasn't talked about a lot are shown a lot, but that, like, we could, we could tell that you had some type of faith and respect that maybe was different than others. You had a relateability because you were open

and other people watched it and felt less alone. You were human, so you struggled a lot through it, and it was messy, and it wasn't perfect. I guess when I hear that, that's what my mind goes to, and I'm proud of that. And I'm thankful that in one of the moments, when I was young, naive, unprepared, that I have a lot of pride in myself that in one of the what should have been the most confusing hardest things I've ever done, I stepped up and I did it in a way that I'm proud of and that other people can be proud of. Yeah. So no, I take that as a comment.

The perfect bin thing was weird. I there's a long story to it but we've talked about it many times you know I had this parasite I was sick the whole show and like couldn't get off the toilet and I felt terrible because at some point the women in the house picked up on it they kind of had to because I was just like so sick yeah wouldn't you rather just tell them yeah yeah and there's a comfort and there's a there's a weirdness when you're like hey yeah you're committing time to date me I already feel weird about that part and also like I've got diarrhea so like yeah this is cool like I'm feeling really good about myself right now and so I was super sick and we're in the Bahamas and you know this has been brought up but it just kind of makes everything go full circle and then all the women get sick because of someone in the ocean where there's like the pigs pigs and all those women on that date got super sick and so they're They're, you know, on the toilet all the time.

So then we have this really funny moment in the Bahamas that everybody can relate with because everybody in that room is sick. I'm literally laying on the bed in this like resort that we're in, in my underwear with a fan blowing on me with Chris Harrison watching a football game next to me in a chair being like, dude, are you good? Like, what do we got to do here? And I'm like, we got to cancel everything. He's like, we can't cancel everything.

I'm like, all right. He's like, we can do a rose ceremony right now. say you know what you want to do, walk out there. It takes you 10 minutes. We're going to run through it. We'll get over it. 10 minutes, my ass. Yeah, never did.

And so we come to that and then we end up going to Jamaica. So I'm coming off of this experience where I'm feeling pretty down. Everybody's kind of feeling like not great about themselves. And the producers, the three head producer, the show had moved into my house in Jamaica with me. That sounds like a blast knowing who those were at the time. Yeah. We had a lot of fun. We had great dinners.

we had great nights together. It was actually really, like, special. Some of my favorite nights. And one night they go, we got a surprise for you. And we walk up in the living room in this house. And we sit down and they air the promo to the season because it had just started coming out.

And I watch it, and I'm like, it's so exciting. And at the end, they go the perfect bin. And I remember in that moment just being like, I wasn't mad. I didn't yell. I don't know if I said anything to them. I just remember sitting there. and I made a joke that said,

well, you just set me up for failure. Oh. And that was, because that was the last thing, with all those things I had just said on my intention and what I'm proud of about the show and I'm proud of what I did during the show, you know, and it was messy.

I'm sure it wasn't perfect. And that was the point is it wasn't perfect. And I think at that moment, I realized I either had to be perfect or I was going to have to live by a perfect standard, which is not me and that was frustrating to me I'd much rather than say

something and anything else I guess it was a fine tagline I get why they did it it just I felt like it set me up for failure it set me up to be hated it was way you were never hated it was it was cute and clever and guess what nobody remembers it

but you and I because this is what we do for a living and it was about you all right well thank you so much Ben this was not the hardest interview I've ever done, but also not the easiest somewhere in the middle. So thank you for being you. And thanks for taking this trip down memory lane. Yeah, this is the countdown. We're interviewing Bachelors. Today, I just happened to be the one. Leading up to Grant's season of The Bachelor, which airs January 27th. We're going to have a lot more in many cool interviews with past Bachelors as we continue.

Thank you for giving me the opportunity to talk about this. It's been a long time. and as much as we get to talk to everybody else, I don't reminisce on that season of life very often, and this was fun. Wait, Ben, I forgot to ask the question that I've been dying to ask you. I wanted to wait to the end. We asked Chris Souls this week, if you had to reorder your season, would you, and could you?

And Ben, can you just, I know you're going to try to work your way around this. Just give us two people that you would have moved around. That's a good question, and I will do that for you. you. Thanks. I kind of already mentioned the, you know, the Becatilly, Amanda Stanton thing. Yeah. So that would have been one change I would have made, but I still am confident in my decision not to go to Becca's hometown.

So I would have replaced both of them with somebody. Oh, really? Who would it be? I think Jen. Okay. Yeah, I think that kind of got a, a weird uh had a weird ending um towards the end and i and i actually wish um i i kind of i mean this Lauren Heimel who like came and went from the show like i don't even know if anybody

you know she went on paradise you had four Lawrence yeah i had a lot of Lawrence um i think she got the wrong of the deal because we didn't get a lot of time and then she kind of went home and that's kind of how the process works I think is you have these people you look back on you're like they were really fun interesting people and you just didn't get any time because of how the structure the show worked but I would say that's what I would have done that would have been my replacement the top three would have stayed the same um but I think I would have not gone to Becca's hometown because I wouldn't want to put a family through it I wouldn't have gone to Amanda's because that ended up getting me angry and I don't like being mad and I would have probably

kept Jen a little longer into that spot. What about Olivia? Olivia is fantastic. And I'm glad you gave me the opportunity to speak about Olivia. She got a really raw into the deal on the show. She was like the villain on a season that the villains didn't exist. And that just is awful for her because she doesn't deserve it. She didn't deserve it.

She was great. But at that point, it's so hard for me because at that point, I was so convinced that like she wasn't it, that it like it was time to go home. And the longer we kept going, uh, I think the more she was getting confident that like, this is, this is it. And so I think that was the right decision then. I just, uh, I've, if I have one regret from the show, it's that I didn't stand up for Olivia sooner out loud and say like, hey, why are we all like, you know, bashing this girl?

She's fantastic. She had no, like, she did nothing wrong. other than just be really confident in something that, you know, maybe that's the worst thing is to have confidence in something you should have confidence over. And I just didn't. And I stayed quiet and I feel terrible for it. I don't know why I did. Maybe I didn't know how much it was affecting her. I thought, you know, I thought most people would come and go from the show and be okay. But she got the wrong to the deal. However, I think she's doing great now. And that's exciting. but can you imagine being the villain on a season where everybody was awesome like that's so stupid

they were was like what what are your complaints about her um she chews weird yeah it's like can you imagine her being a villain on any other season like it doesn't exist she's like she thrives but because everybody was so awesome she got you know blasted and that was that's just unfair like that that's a bad it's a bad at it. Yeah. All right. Now we're going to sign off. Thank you, Ben. Tudaloo. Until next time, I've been Ashley. And I've been Ben. We'll talk to you soon. Follow the Ben and Ashley I. Almost Famous Podcasts on IHartRadio or subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts. Let's start with a quick puzzle. The answer is Ken Jennings' appearance on The Puzzler with A.J. Jacobs.

The question is, what is the most entertaining listening experience? in podcast land. Jeopardy Truthers, believe in... I guess they would be conspiracy theorists. That's right. They gave you the answers, and you still blew it. The Puzzler. Listen on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Hi, my name is Enya Yumanzoor. And I'm Drew Phillips. And we run a podcast called Emergency Intercom. If you're a crime junkie and you love crime. we're not the podcast for you. But if you have unmedicated ADHD... Oh my God, perfect. And want to hear people with mental illness, psychobabble.

Yes, yes. Then Emergency Intercom is the podcast for you. Open your free IHeartRadio app. Search Emergency Intercom and listen now. I just normally do straight stand-up, but this is a bit different. What do you get when a true crime producer walks into a comedy club? Answer, a new podcast called Wisecrack,

where a comedian finds himself at the center of a chilling true crime story. Does anyone know what show they've come to see? It's a story. It's about the scariest night of my life. This is Wisecrack, available now. Listen to Wisecrack on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Everyone thinks they'd never join a cult. But it happens all the time to people just like you.

And people just like us. I'm Lola Blanc and I'm Megan Elizabeth. We're the hosts of Trust Me, a podcast about cults, manipulation, and the psychology of belief. Each week we talk to fellow survivors, former believers, and experts to understand why people get pulled in and how they get out. Trust me, new episodes every Wednesday on Exactly Right. Listen wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast.