The Ben and Ashley I Almost Famous Podcast - Bashley Meets Shandy with Sharleen Joynt and Andy Levine

Episode Date: March 19, 2025

Ben and Ashley are hanging out with Sharleen Joynt from Juan Pablo’s season and her husband Andy Levine! They’re bringing their talents from their “Dear Shandy” podcast to help break down what’s going on in Grant’s season.   Hear some opinions from reality TV experts on what needs to happen to save the franchise, and find out what happened behind the scenes when Sharleen and Andy officiated Nick Viall’s wedding!    See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Hi, my name is Enya Eumanzor. And I'm Drew Phillips. And we run a podcast called Emergency Intercom. If you're a crime junkie and you love crimes, we're not the podcast for you. But if you have unmedicated ADHD... Oh my God, perfect. And want to hear people with mental illness, psychobabble.

Yes, yes. Then Emergency Intercom is the podcast for you. Open your... free iHeartRadio app search emergency internetcom and listen now I just normally do straight stand-up but this is a bit different what do you get when a true crime producer

walks into a comedy club answer a new podcast called Wisecrack where a comedian finds himself at the center of a chilling true crime story does anyone know what show they've come to see it's a story it's about the scariest night of my life

this is Wisecrack available now listen to Wisecrack on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What would you do if one bad decision forced you to choose between a maximum security prison or the most brutal boot camp designed to be hell on earth? Unfortunately for Mark Lombardo, this was the choice he faced. He said, you are a number, a New York State number, and we own you. Listen to shock incarceration on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

The Super Secret Bestie Club podcast season four is here. And we're locked in. That means more juicy chisement. Terrible love advice. Evil spells to cast on your ex. No, no, no, no. We're not doing that this season. Oh.

Well, this season, we're leveling up. Each episode will feature a special bestie, and you're not going to want to miss it. My name is Curley. And I'm Maya. Get in here. Listen to the Super Secret Podcast. Bestie Club on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Everyone thinks they'd never join a cult.

But it happens all the time to people just like you. And people just like us. I'm Lola Blanc. And I'm Megan Elizabeth. We're the host of Trust Me, a podcast about cults, manipulation, and the psychology of belief. Each week we talk to fellow survivors, former believers, and experts to understand why people get pulled in and how they get out.

Trust me. New episodes every Wednesday on Exactly Right. Listen wherever you get your podcasts. This is the Ben and Ashley I Almost Famous Podcast with IHartRadio. Hello, everyone. Welcome to the Almost Famous Podcast. Today we have the cast, the host of Dear Shandy. That would be, oh my God.

Did you, you didn't shoot your last name, did you? Me? Yeah. No. Why is it say Charlene Levine? No. Because I was just one. because I was like going to introduce you to.

And I was like, I don't know what her last name is right now. I could not do Charlene and Levine. Charley and Michigan. No. We have Andy Levine and Charlene join joining us, guys. You guys may know Charlene. If you haven't listened to Deer Shandy, it's a relationship podcast. It's so much fun.

I've been a part of it. It's great. But Charlene was part of Juan Pablo's season. A very memorable cast member. Somebody who has only appeared on one season in The Bachelor, franchise and is yet still so memorable, 11 years later. Oh, God, don't say that. It's been so long.

How is that possible? Just making a decade. Yeah, because it's been 10 years since mine aired and there was, there's was before. Oh, my goodness. I know. And I'm still talking about it. And it's still going. We're still going.

Charlene Levine. I don't know, Charlene. Is that a missed opportunity? I think Charlene Levine would be cute. It might have been a mess, yeah. Charlene Sheen Levine. All right. We were talking to them about how they just look as if the past 11 years hasn't happened.

We think that they drink baby blood or something like that, along with Nick Viall, who they officiated his wedding last year. So there's some coup here, some coup about looking 15 years younger. He gave us the potion. I'm a bottle to that because we can't take compliments, is that you are also part of the Secret Society because they were also at that wedding. Yeah, I just haven't been invited into the secrets of the coup. Yeah, that society, yeah.

You got to officiates. We've talked about it before, but let's just remind everybody. You guys did a great job officiating that wedding. Thanks. That's so nice. A joint officiating, too. Thanks for saying that. That was awesome.

Let me tell you, that was a high stress situation. Yeah. Yeah. I did my cousins, which is such an honor. but that's the reason it's so stressful because it's such an honor and no matter what you do like preparing for that

you're like I'm participating in the I have the ability to not make don't give ourselves that credit but ruin the best day of their life yes that's like my only option I either do fine and nobody remembers it or I ruin it and everybody talks about it the best you can do is no one remembers it poorly

yeah yeah anything below that you failed. I agree. I totally agree. Well, we're here today because, well, you guys do have a very, very fun podcast, as Ashley mentioned. You're talking about relationships. You're sharing insights. I don't want to say advice because that makes it sound like you guys think you know it all.

You listen to people's stories well. You give insights into your situation and others and things you've learned along the way. So we also talk reality TV. Oh, we do. and that's why and somehow Andy I'm going to just make a general statement you tell me if I'm completely off okay you don't seem like reality television person to me yeah I know there's they're way too highbrow for that I feel like yeah like I just get this image in my head you would not do this uh and I so my question I guess from that is like why or am I wrong okay

you're right but I've made married into the franchise. So in part, I have no choice. But in reality, I actually think that despite how silly it all is, there's a lot of me to analyze in reality TV from a relationship perspective, psychological perspective, even though some people may go on the show now with the intention of gaining whatever you want to call it fame, Instagram fame, whatever it is now, I think there becomes a no-choice boundary where they are now. in the machine. They're in the experiment, and they are part of this experience that they no longer have control over. And that's interesting to analyze from a psychological perspective. I would never

have watched these shows, had it not been for Charlene, but I must thank Charlene for bringing me into the fold. Now I've become an ambassador of this amazing sphere of human life. This amazing billion dollar IP that seems to never go away. All right. Charlene, what were you going to say? Honestly, it's a really fun outlet, especially for someone like Andy, who has a big personality and just never did anything with it. And it's super analytical and like just really can read interpersonal dynamics.

And I think you guys know it's like we all went on this show. It's like you want a little something more out of life and you're not really sure what it is. and who knows if the right thing to do was go on The Bachelor or become the Bachelor, but what it can do is sort of let you flex a muscle that maybe you've never flexed before. And that's been really fun with Andy. Like in the pandemic, that's when I had the time. I was like, let's finally do it. Let's be podcasters.

And it was so fun to see him, you know, just sort of spread his wings in this department and be the person that I know he is, but like get to share that with everybody. it's really fun like it's very validating for me it's basically a big i told you so for me because he's so popular and i'm like that's all it is listen i told you so punch i married a reality star basically he is the personality that he could have been one yeah exactly who i don't know that's a compliment i don't want to take that i'm thinking about it honorary member of this club um there's a couple honorary members for sure i would say that like Haley, you know, Becca's girlfriend, is definitely an honorary member, as is Tanya Rad. And we saw, I saw them this weekend on a wedding. But yeah, there is definitely honoraries. And I feel like, Andy, you are one. Jess, for sure. Yeah. Yeah. Am I missing anyone else obvious? I don't know. But talk about somebody that would never want to be on television. Jess? That's my wife. Yeah. That is true. Okay, guys. So you talk highly about, you know, the bachelor, Andy. You've enjoyed it for the most part.

Have you enjoyed this season? Because this is the first season that I have said publicly on this podcast. Like, oh, guys, if it weren't for this podcast, I wouldn't be watching it. I mean, we're with you on that. I will say that I have enjoyed this season to make fun of it more than any previous season. And I always enjoy making fun of the seasons. What have you enjoyed making fun of the most? Oh, my God.

Are you really putting me on the spot? There's so many to choose fun. It's all the amazing woman. Oh my God. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I haven't been sure if I should say anything, especially not on air. I didn't even feel like I could say it. I was going to be like Ben, Hannah. He does say the amazing woman and in the meaning plural. But apparently it's not specific to grant what we're learning. The girls are doing it too. Yes. Juliana does it. I think even Jesse dropped a couple. you guys it's like the whole theme of the season is everybody forgot the word women yeah the entire cast i don't even know which one's which anymore i seriously i've lost track there was a there was a moment

when i was the lead i forget i think i was like i would say this is hilarious i'd walk into a room be like ladies and then at some point uh like uh one of the producers pulled me aside and they're like call them women. It's more respect. I was like, yeah, I wasn't like meaning this in a way of disrespect. I just like didn't know how to refer to a group of 30 people sitting in the room. Like, it gets a little nerve wracking to walk into a room. So I was just like, ladies, I'm here. And that seems more natural, though. Yes. What else are you supposed to say? Hello. Hello women. Hello women. No. That's what they took. They literally like, we're like, you need to call them women every moment. In any interview, anytime you confront them, like, women. And

that just seems like almost like I don't know why maybe it is more respectful but to me it felt so formal and the formality of it made it feel demeaning like I thought we were all friends like that was maybe my biggest mistake as a lead was I just thought we were all doing this thing together and figuring out how it played out um I didn't want to make it too formal but it was like hello women my name is Ben I'm 37 and I am just thinking that it could be appropriate to call me a woman at 37 at 26 I was certainly not a woman I would feel awkward if you would call me a woman at 26. I totally agree. There came a point. I don't remember what year it was where suddenly I felt weird saying the word lady or woman. And I feel like women, when I was

younger, wanted to be called girls and no one wanted to be called a lady. But then lady was okay. And then women became not okay. And now women's okay. I cannot keep track. I literally every time I say, I have to say the word, whether it, whatever word it is, I get nervous and I was like, okay, you can do this. Remember, what's the word you call a person with a vagina? You can do this and I always get it wrong. Like, nope, you should have laid. That was a lady time.

It was a woman time. It's craziness. She's still correcting himself. It's very amusing. Yeah. But what's funny about this, Ben Higgins, is that I don't think anyone would argue with me and saying you were one of the most respectful bachelor's in this friend. She has this history.

Oh, yeah. You're known for it. Yeah. That was good training then because they made it look like that. They said call them women, not ladies and everybody watching was like, he's so respectful. I'm like, I'm just trying not to mess up here. Like, I'm just trying my best. But thank you for that.

I hope that's the, like, if that's the memory people have, then this was all worth it for me. You know, Ben Higgins. I can't call him Ben. He's Ben Higgins. You're a moment in time. Like, I will meet, we will meet. The marker. Yes.

Like, we'll meet people. who I don't listen to the podcast and they won't even know I was on the show and it's like when did you start watching it's like Ben Higgins season this happened just a week ago like it's like you are like the millennium

yeah and then the follow up is and I didn't watch a season after that because I hate that show the interesting thing so like this is a good point and it's going to transition to me into a question that I think maybe the two of you will relate with

you know when I when we just had our daughter I was talking to a lot of people who were dads, and I was like, I don't necessarily know how to be a dad to a daughter. And they said this. They said, you are there to represent what a man should be to her

and let her mom, like, do the rest. And so I do, Charlene, hear you. And if that is a memory of the time that I was given the opportunity to be on this show, that people say, hey, that's how I want a guy to treat my daughter, then this is all good.

Then I feel like peaceful about that and really excited about that because I hope I can now show my daughter what how a man should treat a woman. So I hear that and that means a lot to me. Thank you for saying that. That's what my point was there. Oh, that's so sweet. And also the most Ben Higgins response. Oh, totally. Yes. Here I am like geeking out over the fact that you guys made fun of Grant for a woman and I'm like, Ben is like, this is what women mean to me. Yeah, come on. My boyfriend's professor is way too friendly, and now I'm seriously suspicious. Well, wait a minute, Sam, maybe her boyfriend's just looking for extra credit.

Well, Dakota, it's back to school week on the OK Storytime podcast, so we'll find out soon. This person writes, my boyfriend has been hanging out with his young professor a lot. He doesn't think it's a problem, but I don't trust her. Now, he's insisting we get to know each other, but I just want her gone. Now, hold up. Isn't that against school policy? That sounds totally inappropriate. Well, according to this person, this is her boyfriend's former professor, and they're the same age.

And it's even more likely that they're cheating. He insists there's nothing between them. I mean, do you believe him? Well, he's certainly trying to get this person to believe him because he now wants them both to meet. So, do we find out if this person's boyfriend really cheated with his professor or not? To hear the explosive finale, listen to the OK Storytime podcast on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Hello, it's Daniel Official, writer Strong, and Wilfredale from PodMeets World. And we're bringing you Viva Las Content.

That's right. We are back in Las Vegas, the city of sin, and giving the people what they want. A full week of Y2K content. Wait, we're back in Vegas? Tell me why. Well, for the Backstreet Boys residency at Sphere, of course. We sat down with Kevin Richardson and A.J. McLean just minutes before they took the stage, and our very own Wilfredel basically became the newest member of the band.

Boy band, please. Plus, the man who has the longest running comedy show on the strip joins us and gets his props. It's carrot top, baby. And finally, we all L-O-V-E-Hur, Ashley Simpson-Ross, joins us to talk about her upcoming sold-out Vegas residency. It's a full week of nostalgic interviews you don't want to miss. Listen to PodMeets World on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Imagine that you're on an airplane and all of a sudden you hear this. Attention passengers, the pilot is having an emergency, and we need someone, anyone, to land this plane.

Think you could do it? It turns out that nearly 50% of men think that they could land the plane with the help of air traffic control. And they're saying like, okay, pull this. Do this, pull that, turn this. It's just... I can do my eyes close. I'm Mani. I'm Noah.

This is Devon. And on our new show, no such thing. We get to the bottom of questions like these. Join us as we talk to the leading expert on overconfidence. Those who lack expertise lack the expertise they need to recognize that they lack expertise. And then as we try the whole thing out for real. Wait, what? Oh, that's the run right.

I'm looking at this thing. Listen to no such thing on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, sis. What if I could promise you you never had to listen to a condescending finance, tell you how to manage your money again. Welcome to Brown Ambition. This is the hard part when you pay down those credit cards. If you haven't gotten to the bottom of why you were racking up credit or turning to credit cards, you may just recreate the same problem a year from now. When you do feel like you are bleeding from these high interest rates, I would start shopping for a debt

consolidation loan, starting with your local credit union, shopping around online, looking for some online lenders because they tend to have fewer fees and be more affordable. Listen, I am not here to judge. It is so expensive in these streets. I 100% can see how in just a few months you can have this much credit card debt when it weighs on you. It's really easy to just like stick your head in the sand. It's nice and dark in the sand. Even if it's scary, it's not going to go away just because you're avoiding it. And in fact, it may get even worse. For more judgment-free money advice, listen to Brown Ambition on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Your entire identity has been fabricated. Your beloved brother goes to

missing without a trace. You discover the depths of your mother's illness the way it has echoed and reverberated throughout your life, impacting your very legacy. Hi, I'm Danny Shapiro, and these are just a few of the profound and powerful stories I'll be mining on our 12th season of Family Secrets. With over 37 million downloads, we continue to be moved and inspired by our guests and their courageously told stories. I can't wait to share 10 powerful new episodes with you, stories of tangled up identities, concealed truths, and the way in which family secrets almost always need to be told.

I hope you'll join me and my extraordinary guests for this new season of Family Secrets. Listen to Family Secrets Season 12 on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. so here's my frustration with this season we've been like we wanted grant to succeed one i thought he was a weird choice strictly from the fact that we didn't know him i thought he was set up from failure from the beginning no matter who he was or what he would do because he was coming into it as such a um an underdog and somebody that we didn't understand from his season we didn't get to know

we didn't get to root for or like share tears with. So he just kind of got chosen. And I always think that's a weird choice when they choose somebody that really has no backstory on the show if they're going to choose somebody from the show. So the hope is, okay, let's get to know Grant. That was a big wish of ours at the Almost Famous Podcast. We want to get to know Grant. I will say we're almost done with this season. We have analyzed.

We have made fun of. We have celebrated. We have talked about this show for 10 weeks, whatever it is. I don't know Grant. like I still don't know the guy and I don't want to say that's his fault because I don't know if that's his fault but I will say at some level

it's somebody's fault the shows, his or whatever that I don't necessarily understand him and I typically don't feel that way even with the Clayton's of the world I felt like I could get a pretty good judge of what he was after

even though like you know the show didn't necessarily pop for anybody I was like I think I get what this guy's after or what he's about, and I don't know if it's going to work long-term here. But at least I know. But at least I know. And so, like, I'll watch that play out. I don't know Grant.

I watch him every week almost as a stranger. And I want to know if you all feel the same way. Oh, man, you are good company. This is an echo chamber. I mean, we have said the whole season, who is this guy? Where is Grant Ellis? Show us Grant Ellis. He doesn't even, like when he has an opportunity to make a choice, he doesn't even make the

choice. It's like why did he give Carolina mixed signals when she pulled him aside or he pulled her aside even though she keep her. Why did he keep her? Why did he keep her? By her demeanor as he later said at women's she practically begged it. She's like look I'm here. I'm saying if you want to send me home, go for it. I get it. I know hard feelings and he's like

no I really have strong feelings for you. I want you to stick around. We got a good thing here and then goodbye. Yeah and that's just one example. We've had well a beef I've had all season and we really like Grant as what he seems to be as a person. I'm sure he's a great time. I have nothing, but I just don't know him. Exactly. We've been saying that he's just like we don't know him any better than we did on Jen season. Like even the lone wolf thing, like we'd learned that on Jen's season. I still feel like we've heard the same backstory.

Like it hasn't gone deeper. And I don't know if it's him being kind of camera shy or what. But something I have felt has been lacking is a sense of conviction in what he wants to do. It doesn't matter what girls have said about whomever. It's like he's kind of running around with a chick. with its head cut off like, oh, she said that, he said, she said that. And like, it's sort of like, I don't have a sense. And I think that's even reflected in the fact that he doesn't even know who he's going to pick between the final two. And I, I know that's being teased and sometimes that's an exaggeration, but I really do see it. Like, I think that he doesn't have that like, that gut piece about, about the women, about who he likes best. And I think that's being

reflected in his choices and how he, it's just sort of feels kind of like, kind of like wishy-washy. I don't really have a sense of who he is. It feels like he's playing the role and he's actually the person anymore. It just feels like he's saying what he thinks he's supposed to say and doing what he thinks he's supposed to do. I don't get the feeling he really even wants to be there. And for that reason, I don't really have a lot of faith in whoever he picks, if he picks anyone that it's going to last. I think he's really sincere. I hope it works. I think he's sincere, but not for somebody's meeting on this show. I think that if you were to like, kind of zoom away from this.

I think the answer is that he doesn't feel that strongly about any of them. No. Even though he says, I love you, to Latia this week. I would argue with all this. I think he was set up for failure, just like so many past leads have been set up for failure. I've told Ashley this. When it came to my time on the show, it was so good until the previews came out and they let me watch it while we were filming and it called me the perfect bin. And that destroyed me.

If you, I could tell you the week it happened and my confidence was shot and my fear levels went up. And I was like, this is, I'm set up for failure. You call me the perfect Ben. I can't live up to that. That's not who I am and that's not reflective of who I want to be known as. I'm not that guy. And if that's how you're going to market me, then I'm going to fail you in that, like, in

that pursuit. I would say the same thing happened to Grant. Grant was promoted as this amazingly handsome guy, so good looking, the best looking bachelor we've ever had, which isn't wrong. But think about how he's hearing that. I'm handsome. That's what you got for me. You've chosen me as the bachelor because I'm handsome. And so as a result, I think his confidence is so low.

I don't think he's, I don't think he has the conviction because I don't think the show did a good job but preparing him with, you know who you are, you're somebody that is confident, that is strong, that knows what he wants, that has the opportunity to pursue a relationship here from the show with 30 women, and you get this amazing opportunity to date all of them and figure out what you want. And it's okay to figure out what you want. And you can send people home. And they're going to be just fine. They're going to be sad and maybe a little mad of you. They're going to be just fine. And so send them home. I think he's afraid of hurting people. Yes. And he, the show needed to do a better job being like, hurt them. Like for a second. And then they're going to get an Instagram following.

and they're going to start dating somebody. It's way more famous in you anyways, and it's going to be fine. Or we could be really honest and just say that he probably didn't have the personality to conduct the show. I don't see what's wrong with that. Which is totally fine, but that's on them for picking somebody who couldn't command the show. Can it be D all of the above? It's all of the above, but I agree with you.

Ashley, I mean, it's like there has to be a certain type of person to be the bachelor. You can't just say, oh, this guy was an. nice guy in the season and he's tall and good looking. Let's throw him in the role. You have to have a certain type of personality. And I think Grant, honestly, in real life, and human life is probably a very cool, affable guy you want to hang out with. But on TV, it doesn't work. And I blame I blame production. I blame casting. And, you know, to some degree as a third party, I do blame Grant for just not taking a standing being like, I'm not going to just tow the line. I'm going to actually do something here. Yeah. And I also think Ben is onto something by saying that he was set up for

failure, you know, we only, we're down two episodes this season versus past season, you know. So right off the bat, we're not getting to know people as well. And I feel that the season itself, and it, you know, it could be like it's chicken or rag. I don't know if it's because Grant is the way he is that the season is like this or Grant is being that way because the season is the way it is. but we can all agree that this season feels rote. It feels derivative. It feels like I feel like I'm watching like a parody of itself except a bad one. Like it's like even the hometowns.

Like I was like, what are we even watching? This could have been from 10 years ago, but at least they were working with what they had, with the personalities they had. This just feels like they're trying to like squeeze everything into the same formula we know instead of just like letting it be and letting us watch what happens. It doesn't feel like reality TV.

it feels almost semi-scripted like the scenes with Zoe to me feel like almost scripted and sometimes Grant's ITMs, it feels like he's like reading off a teleprope. And that's another thing. What was Zoe doing there? Why was she in fantasy suites? Because he obviously didn't like anybody enough. So he had to pick somebody to fill that spot.

But what about Carolina and Alex? What happened there? Yeah, well, that's a weird thing. We've had an editing issue over the past couple of seasons. Maybe maybe not a little bit, maybe, but joey's but like joey's season had so many characters and he was so charming that they can get away with it this is like showing a whole bunch of flaws in storytelling oh yeah heavy flaws

like to me the alex thing is a great example she's you know we all we know that that contestant exists the one who gets the first impression rose gets an early first date she's the one to be and then it's like it fizzles but at least talk about how it fizzled at women tell all don't be like oh what happened here are the answers and then it's just like, oh, the drama cut up with you? Yeah, what does that mean? How does drama catch up with someone unrelated to drama in a romance? Just give one ITM where it's like, I don't really know what happened.

Like, yeah, Alex, it just sort of fell behind it. We didn't even get that. She just suddenly got sent home. It's like we're missing crucial pieces of a puzzle. Also night one, I don't even remember her name. I think was, was it Ashley? Alicia. Alicia, what happened there?

The weirdest thing to be a little bit. They're kissing and then the next week she's gone. gone no explanation zero yeah she doesn't even know we talked to her i mean yeah that's not surprising it actually made less sense after talking to her really because she said that it was so good yeah she said that the conversation that was aired was like the lesser of them all oh my god i don't get it i mean i think it has been i think as viewers of the show so we're talking about this now as fans of the show i think anytime we sit there and we feel like we can't root for dive into i mean there are characters that I strictly very vividly remember from 10 years ago who I was in it with

each episode, right? I want to see what they have to say here. I want to see how they confront this issue. I'm going to be sad when they leave and I was sad when they left or I was happy when they would stay. That element of the show has disappeared because I think we're missing we're missing those minor moments that help people make sense. There's a moment during Jen's season with Grant, and I brought it up back then, and it was my, I don't know why, I could be crazy, but it was my concern for him becoming The Bachelor. It was a moment that was celebrated by so many. And I think it, because it was a unique moment during that season, he asks Jen a question. He says, I just want to know your biggest fears. What are your biggest fears?

And people are like, that's such, he's so sweet and sensitive. I'm like, I'm sure he is. I'm not taking that away from him. But that's such a simple question. Like, that's a question you ask when you're lacking confidence to know what to ask in the moment. You can ask that a thousand different ways. Yes. And you can have the patience to explore the fears and dig into them. You just don't come out on a date and say, what are your biggest fears? That's a very generic question to me. Well, it's an interview question. It's an interview question. It's a prepared question. You're exactly right. And so it's very, so at that moment, I said, I'm worried about this guy when it comes to his desire to explore these things in a way that is real.

And not a producer when he said, it sounds like he was sitting with a producer and he's like, I don't know what to ask her. And they're like, ask her biggest fears. He's like, okay, got it. Yes. I'm going to sit down. Ask her biggest fears. We felt the whole season that he was reading cue cards. And I'm not saying literally, but I wouldn't be shocked actually if there were Q guards. Like it was that bad. And I felt like the only times we really kind of saw Grant was when he was talking about his upbringing with Zoe. And a Latina. You're talking about the current season, right? You're not talking about Jen Cues and you're talking about his season. Sorry, I switched too fast. Tets changed. No, no, no. No, you're right. No, I think the Zoe and Latia situation. The Latia one at the dinner table, that long dinner table is the one conversation that really stands out to me. Yes, same. We got so excited because I was like, oh my God, here's Grant. Yes, I actually literally said, there's our bachelor. There it is. Now that that has been uncovered, like he'll keep growing into it and then it just didn't really happen. I think he's just not comfortable.

Yeah. And that's fair. I mean, it is very fair. You could argue that makes him more endearing. That's, that's right. If we just allowed that to be shown, like the awkward silences, like, let's just show it. Let's show who Grant is. Like, if he just sat there and they like stared at each other for a bit, I would, it awesome, awesome for us to understand him. Like, he's, he's smart. He's a little maybe nerdy. He's, he's awkward in, like, in romance, all these things. It's like, okay, I can root for that guy if, because I know that guy. there is a thing that happens on the show

when you are a lead and it was a very clear directive by me at the beginning of the season I said I never want you to step in like never step in I'm sure Charlene and Ashley you can remember some of these moments when conversations may be like fade

or they have a law and a date specifically one on ones a producer will come up if you remember this and say like hey what about Charlene what about this thing that you're thinking about right now and you'd be like, oh, and you would like start talking about it. It would fill the conversation.

So a producer would kind of have to intervene to keep things flowing and to get the words that they, like the stories that they wanted out of it. But it was, I sold them at the beginning. I never want you to step in. That feels like this will make me check out very quickly on all these relationships. If at any moment a producer's like, hey, Ben, you should ask her this question. Like, so weird. I think this season they're having to do a lot of, you guys should talk about this.

Yes. That's smart of you because I think like in the past, like Juan Pablo, to take him as an example, you love him or hate him, that was a good season. Wonderful season. Juan Pablo didn't take direction from anybody. He was doing his own thing. He was even going against direction just for the sake of it. It's kind of difficult.

But that's so interesting to hear you say then because I don't remember that happening what I hung out with Juan Pablo on the show and I don't know if it's just because we had enough to talk about or if he wasn't receptive to that but I don't I do remember it happening more so like you know girl chats and you know

oh what are you going to talk to one Pablo about tonight like before a group date or whatever but not during like a one on one. I'm going to say something totally insane. I'm going to say that I think people have become more

boring since the adoption of social media, not the original, now this hyper adoption of social media. And I literally think production is having to hold their hands because no one is having good, interesting conversation. So they're saying, instead of letting this organically evolve, we're going to jump in and we're going to basically make this a scripted show with blocking. And I know that that may sound crazy and it sounds like I'm playing a devil's advocate, but I actually believe that. And I have noticed it. If you watch from like Jesse's season all the way through, you keep watching, you will see the conversation quality go downhill on a straight line and take a deep dive right around the year like 2000. 2020. Yeah, 2020 pandemic where social media

went nuts. It just goes right down. And I think if I'm a producer and I've got 30 people staying around having nothing conversations, not saying anything interesting, I'm I'm going to jump in. And I'm not aligning the whole generation. I know there's a lot of good people out there. I often, I often shit on this generation. And I get Gen X or I'm sorry, Gen Zs or whatever, millennials like, you don't know what you're talking about.

We're a bunch of smart people. We have good conversations. It's not reality to be. Melancholes remember the dial-up Sam. Absolutely. I'm not lumping millennials. I think what you're seeing is we're getting cuspy. Our cast is getting cuspy between millennial and Gen.

Why? Gen Z, sorry, Gen Z, wow. Cuspi is like, they're not really millennials anymore. We're getting to see more Gen Z on the show because I think they're like 27 now and below. So a lot of the cast, yeah, is Gen Z. All you've got to do is count the number of likes and amazings from season one to season 28 and you will be amazed.

I think the closest, Latia is 31. Latia is 31. Letia is a true millennial. Is she? She's not Cusby. She's a millennial. And I got to say, can we talk about how much better those conversations are?

Agreed. Yeah. She has lead qualities. Now we're like really abandoning our young fan base. I know. I know. I want you, but one of you has to agree with me.

Right now agree with me. I don't want to be left alone on this one. No, no. We understand. My comment, my response to that was, um, I would say people to me are more interesting

on social media than they are in person. pretty consistently, like, right now, I just think they're more comfortable with it. They express themselves more. You see tears on social media now. You see arguments. You see political stances. You see faith-based claims on social media that people aren't doing in person. And I miss that world where that was happening more one-on-one where we could, like, dig into it.

And I didn't have to follow you on social media to find out. Yes, exactly. That's my thought. That's my thought. That's better than me. My boyfriend's professor is way too friendly, and now I'm seriously suspicious. Oh, wait a minute, Sam. Maybe her boyfriend's just looking for extra credit.

Well, Dakota, it's back to school week on the OK Storytime podcast, so we'll find out soon. This person writes, my boyfriend has been hanging out with his young professor a lot. He doesn't think it's a problem, but I don't trust her. Now, he's insisting we get to know each other, but I just want her gone. Now, hold up. Isn't that against school podcast? Well, see, that sounds totally inappropriate. Well, according to this person, this is her boyfriend's former professor, and they're the same age.

And it's even more likely that they're cheating. He insists there's nothing between them. I mean, do you believe him? Well, he's certainly trying to get this person to believe him because he now wants them both to meet. So, do we find out if this person's boyfriend really cheated with his professor or not? To hear the explosive finale, listen to the OK Storytime podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Hello, it's Daniel Fischel. writer strong and wilfridel from pod meets world and we're bringing you viva las content that's right we are back in las vegas the city of sin and giving the people what they want a full week of y2k content wait we're back in vegas tell me why

well for the backstreet boys residency at sphere of course we sat down with kevin richardson and a j mclean just minutes before they took the stage and our very own wilfridel basically became the newest member of the band. Boy band, please. Plus, the man who has the longest running comedy show on the strip joins us and gets his props. It's carrot top, baby. And finally, we all L-O-V-E-Her. Ashley Simpson-Ross joins us to talk about her upcoming sold-out Vegas residency.

It's a full week of nostalgic interviews you don't want to miss. Listen to PodMeets World on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Imagine that you're on an airplane. And all of a sudden, you hear this. Attention passengers. The pilot is having an emergency, and we need someone, anyone, to land this plane. Think you could do it?

It turns out that nearly 50% of men think that they could land the plane with the help of air traffic control. And they're saying, like, okay, pull this. Do this. Pull that. Turn this. It's just... I can do it in my eyes closed. I'm Mani.

I'm Noah. This is Devon. And on our new show, no such thing. We get to the bottom of questions. like these. Join us as we talk to the leading expert on overconfidence. Those who lack expertise lack the expertise they need to recognize that they lack expertise. And then as we try the whole thing out for real. Wait, what? Oh, that's the run right. I'm looking at this thing. Listen to no such thing on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your

podcasts. A foot washed up, a shoe with some bones in it. They have had no idea who it was. Most everything was burned up pretty good from the fire that not a whole lot was salvageable. These are the coldest of cold cases, but everything is about to change. Every case that is a cold case that has DNA. Right now in a backlog will be identified in our lifetime. A small lab in Texas is cracking the code on DNA. Using new scientific tools, they're finding clues in evidence so tiny you might just miss it.

He never thought he was going to. going to get caught. And I just looked at my computer screen. I was just like, gotcha. On America's Crime Lab, we'll learn about victims and survivors, and you'll meet the team behind the scenes at Othrum, the Houston Lab that takes on the most hopeless cases to finally solve the unsolvable. Listen to America's Crime Lab on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

What would you do if one bad decision forced you to choose between a maximum security prison or the most brutal boot camp designed to be hell on earth. Unfortunately for Mark Lombardo, this was the choice he faced. He said, you are a number, a New York State number, and we own you. Shock incarceration, also known as boot camps, are short-term, highly regimented correctional programs that mimic military basic training. These programs aim to provide a shock of prison life, emphasizing strict discipline, physical training, hard labor, and rehabilitation programs.

Mark had one chance to complete this program and had no idea of the hell awaiting him the next six months. The first night was so overwhelming, and you don't know who's next to you. And we didn't know what to expect in the morning. Nobody tells you anything. Listen to shock incarceration on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Well, people are also afraid to talk these days because they're afraid if they say something wrong.

Yes. Correct. That they're going to be totally screwed for life. And that's the other thing. It's not just their, it's not, it's not, it's not the dumbing down of conversation. It's the, it's the, it's the fear in conversation. Yeah. You can only stay in certain lanes without getting a big, big trouble. You know, if you're not flexing that muscle all the time and that's the only way you're really being social, then you are going to only be more afraid. And just to cap this, because I think, you know, so no one thinks we're shitting on a whole generation. I think this would have happened to any of us that's been raised. Oh, 1,000 percent. Anybody. This isn't this, this, this, I'm more curious about it than I am dogging on it. I just, I'm seeing it and I'm feeling it. And, and I think the bachelor is such a great, um, study to see how people are interacting in today,

which leads me to the questions that I, I want to ask you. I have two questions that we haven't asked anybody yet. And I'm going to start with the one that's more relevant to what you guys do at your podcast. But as you witness this, change. And as you kind of are highlighting some of the hurdles in relationships today, what advice are you giving people to relate with them when it comes to how to make these things work? I guess maybe to make it more fun, if you are. producers on this show right now, and Grant Ellis was your bachelor, and you had the crop of women that you have, what are you saying to them to help further these relationships into a place

where maybe it could work long term? Oh, man. This is why we're not producers on the best thing. I would say nothing. I would say we put all the onus on casting. And casting she gets paid the most money of anybody on this show. And if they put together the right cast, you just stand back and let it evolve. And that's it. I don't think production has a role. I think if someone's a little nervous about doing something

like, oh, I don't know if I should do that. I don't know if I should do that. It's fine to push them over, you know, that line. But I don't think production should be getting involved at all. Conversation. Back in the day, like way, way, way back. Like the real world stuff. It was literally just like, throw a bunch of people in a house and step back and see what

happens, you know? And I think that's what The Bachelor should be, and I have to put the blame. I know everyone likes to blame producers, or they blame the lead. He's boring or whatever. I think the blame should be somewhat put on casting. I don't think they're necessarily picking the right people. Yeah, and I have to agree with you. I think that the more involved producers get to try and create certain conversations,

the worse it is. As you said, even if it's awkward, like some of the best reality TV is the most awkward stuff, right? You're watching it and you're like cringing. Like you can't believe you just don't want to be there. But you can't turn away. Like, why are we even being robbed of that? Well, to hear them talk.

Yeah, I also want to have kids and get married and like have a wife and all that. Eisenberg's uncertainty principle. Like the observed experiment is no longer an actual experiment. You don't get the result that should have happened had you not observed it. Yes. And I think that they should just step back and cast. I don't want to say better, but it's not I'm aligning. We have to have some people on our show, I think.

They're lovely people. I just don't know if they were right for the show. They have to be careful about them. It's the combination of the both, though. Like, if you keep having a producer coming in being like, well, so have you talked about this? Like suggesting things to talk about. It throws you off. Yeah.

And it's going to end up being the exact same conversations over and over again. Because I highly doubt that their suggestions are bespoke to each contestant. It's just the same suggestions over and over again. That's why you hear the same conversations over and over again. then it feels scripted and it feels formulaic and it feels like the audience's intelligence is being insulted which this season I felt heavily insulted my intelligence was battered to a pulp an analogy we had for this season was that it's like an old dated like the first restaurant in a town and they haven't evolved they have the same menu and in the beginning like you went there

and it was good because it was the only restaurant but then as the years pass you go out of nostalgia, right? Like, you have other options, but you're like, oh, but this is comforting. They have this dish I like. But then now it's sort of like even the ingredients are going downhill and you start to go and you're like, wait, why am I still coming? That's the most amazing analogy I've ever heard. And even more importantly, why are there so many people still in this restaurant?

Well, if there's this many people in the restaurant, maybe it's good. I'll keep eating here. Yeah. Goodness, that is brilliant. it's almost like what you know there's obviously a big change in production teams coming in that's been known are we allowed to talk about that i would like to yeah me too well no i mean i don't know how much of a conversation needs to be happening because my second question to you was what do you hope the show turns into like if you had this new start and you kind of said it

it's almost just like hey producers show let's trust that humans are humans and they're beautiful and complex and weird and they're going to try to figure this out and we can trust them to make good TV because that's just like we're just wanting to watch real stories play out so it's almost like take a step back stop producing a show think about if you had a season where the last three episodes were one person or two people think about that and and the audience would be like wow we're being treated like we have intelligence this is an actual show this is what actually happened we're not just having a Zoe for some reason going to the fantasy suites.

Yeah. And we like, by the way, we like Zoe. No, no. Loz-Oyes lovely. I just- For Zoe is that she's a good actor and a bad movie. Yes.

Yeah. Well, she just didn't belong there. They didn't have any. Yeah. It was like, it was like very- Place marker. She was a place marker. Well, Ashley, you were on a,

been on a reality television show recently. I mean, the big shows out there, Traders, uh, Big Brother, like, some of those Survivor shows, like, the ones that have really, like, stayed relevant.

I mean, Traders doesn't have a producer. Traders is pretty new, though. Sure. But there's only been three seasons. It's very successful right now. Yeah. They don't have a producer in the room with these people.

Yeah. Well, I told you, I didn't love that. So I can't believe we even mentioned my appearance on stars on Mars. Almost two years ago. But it was also an ensemble show on Fox. They had a great cast. They just, I don't know what happens. It's awesome.

Anyway, they didn't. I didn't have any producer involvement, which from The Bachelor made me feel like I didn't have a home, like, I didn't have a home base to like go to somebody who was like not, I needed like the comfort of going to somebody who wasn't part of the cast. You needed Alon Gale. I needed Alon. Like I had never done like a show without Alon. Well, I have.

I did winter games and Alon wasn't there. But I had plenty of others there. and take his place but there was like no source of comfort to me and then like I'm trying to do interviews without there even being a producer in the room like they would have the producer would be like on a speaker asking you questions

and it just felt very impersonal to me so maybe because I was trained by the bachelor that didn't work but like did that work for other like we only have to ask Gabby who went so far in traders how was that how was doing interviews without a real it doesn't matter to me how they feel i like watching it yeah yeah like i don't care if you're uncomfortable right i i think it makes great tv

you know we make a good producer is this one right here yeah i think you should you should apply yeah yeah it seems to be an opening right now no for the basle i think he should apply to be be a producer on the bad producer what if we did a cast led production team holy shit that would be good. I actually think that would kill. This is the answer to your question. The answer to your question, Ben, is you should be the producer. Yeah. Cast led production team, best season ever. Absolute madness. Hey, I know we have a heart out here. So I want to give you guys the last 30 seconds. Where can people listen to you? Why would they listen to you? And what do you know? How can people follow along? Oh, thank you. So we are dear Shandy. which stands for Charlene and Andy. Oh, I always wondered. We are a relationship podcast. You can write in and ask your relationship questions.

And we give our advice with, you know, a dose of humor and analogies. But we are really known for our recaps. We recap the ultimatum, love is blind, Bachelor, all of them. And we analyze it, much as we did with you today, very analytical and interpersonal and a lot of analogies, a lot of fun. There's laughter. It's fun. It's fun for the whole family. this was fun for Ben and I

I feel we woke up with you guys yeah oh my sleepy fantasy sweets oh man right oh yeah no we always have so much fun you guys are just like you're a great team I gotta tell you you really are

10 years sunshine 10 years Ben exaggerates a little bit it's like it's been 10 years but it's good It's been close you know he exaggerates too I like you know I exaggerate by 10% It's always a 10%. So we're at nine years, and I say 10 years. That's 10%.

Yeah, we're fine. It's good. I know we have to, we have an out. But Ashley, does Jared exaggerate? Is this a man thing? Oh, my goodness. I was going to say, it's just like, Jared exaggerates on time so much. He'll be like, or he under, he like is very bad with pinpointing time.

He'd be like, yeah, he thinks everything was longer. Yeah, he thinks everything was longer. He was like, I was like, that was two months ago. He's like, no, no, no. It was like eight months ago. Like, Jared, I can go back on my calendar. Look, right here. It was two months ago, you nut.

Okay, so men like to exaggerate. Yeah, we've never claimed to be the smartest, but we can talk. Hey, go listen to Deer Sandy. It's an amazingly good podcast with a great following, very passionate fan base, very fun fan base after my time on that show. Very supportive fan base, I would say as well. The great, great show going on. Thank you for listening. next time i've been ben i've been ashley see you guys been dear shandy thanks guys follow the ben and

ashley i almost famous podcasts on iHeart radio or subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts hi my name is enya umanzor and i'm drew phillips and we run a podcast called emergency intercom if you're a crime junkie and you love crimes we're not the podcast for you but if you have unmedicated ADHD oh my god Perfect. And want to hear people with mental illness, psychobabble. Yes, yes. Then Emergency Intercom is the podcast for you.

Open your free IHeartRadio app. Search Emergency Intercom and listen now. What would you do if one bad decision forced you to choose between a maximum security prison or the most brutal boot camp designed to be hell on earth? Unfortunately for Mark Lombardo, this was the choice he faced. He said, you are a number, a New York State number. we own you. Listen to shock incarceration on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your

podcasts. The Super Secret Festi Club podcast season four is here. And we're locked in. That means more juicy chisement. Terrible love advice. Evil spells to cast on your ex. No, no, no, we're not doing that this season. Oh.

Well, this season, we're leveling up. Each episode will feature a special Bestie, and you're not going to want to miss it. My name is Curley. And I'm Maya. Get in here! Listen to the Super Secret Bestie Club on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Every case that is a cold case that has DNA. Right now in a backlog will be identified in our lifetime.

On the new podcast, America's Crime Lab, every case has a story to tell. And the DNA holds the truth. He never thought he was going to get caught. And I just looked at my computer screen. I was just like, ah, gotcha. This technology's already solving so many cases. Listen to America's Crime Lab on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I just normally do straight stand-up, but this is a bit different.

What do you get when a true crime producer walks into a comedy club? Answer, a new podcast called Wisecrack, where a comedian finds himself at the center of a chilling true crime story. Does anyone know what show they've come to see? It's a story. It's about the scariest night of my life. This is Wisecrack, available now. Listen to Wisecrack on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast.