The Ben and Ashley I Almost Famous Podcast - Befriending The Other Woman

Episode Date: March 1, 2025

Once a cheater, always a cheater. Besties Thelma & Louise are sharing the mic with their real-life friend Jennifer who has been through hell and back. From what she thought was her happily ever after, to an affair that tore her marriage apart, to how she picked up the pieces and found her I Do, Part 2. This story will give you faith that you can find love the second time around. Plus, how she's befriending the woman who broke up her marriage...a story you have to hear to believe. Email us at: [e-mail] or call us at 844-4-I Do Pod (844-443-6763)See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. My boyfriend's professor is way too friendly, and now I'm seriously suspicious. Wait a minute, Sam. Maybe her boyfriend's just looking for extra credit. Well, Dakota, luckily, it's back to school week on the OK Storytime podcast, so we'll find out soon. This person writes, my boyfriend's been hanging out with his young professor a lot. He doesn't think it's a problem, but I don't trust her. Now he's insisting we get to know each other, but I just want her gone.

Hold up. Isn't that against school policy? That seems inappropriate. Maybe find out how it ends by listening to the OK Storytime podcast and the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, my name is Enya Umanzor. And I'm Drew Phillips. And we run a podcast called Emergency Intercom. If you're a crime junkie and you love crimes, we're not the podcast for you. But if you have unmedicated ADHD... Oh, my God, perfect.

And want to hear people with mental illness, psychobabble. Yes, yes. Then Emergency Intercom is the podcast for you. Open your free IHeartRadio app. Search Emergency Intercom and listen now. Betrayal Weekly is back for season two with brand new stories. The detective comes driving up fast and just like screeches right in the parking lot. I swear I'm not crazy, but I think he poisoned me.

I feel trapped. My breathing changes. I realize, wow, like he is not a mentor. He's pretty much a monster. But these aren't just stories. of destruction. They're stories of survival. I'm going to tell my story and I'm going to hold

my head up. Listen to Betrayal Weekly on the IHeart Radio app Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Let's start with a quick puzzle. The answer is Ken Jennings' appearance on The Puzzler with A.J. Jacobs.

The question is, what is the most entertaining listening experience in podcast Land. Jeopardy Truthers believe in... I guess they would be conspiracy theorists. That's right. To give you the answers, and you still blew it. The Puzzler. Listen on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Everyone thinks they'd never join a cult. But it happens all the time to people just like you. And people just like us. I'm Lola Blanc and I'm Megan Elizabeth. We're the hosts of Trust Me, a podcast about cult. manipulation and the psychology of belief. Each week we talk to fellow survivors, former believers, and experts to understand why people get pulled in and how they get out. Trust me, new episodes every Wednesday on exactly right. Listen wherever you get your podcasts.

Welcome back to I Do Part 2. It's your favorite real-life besties. Yes, we are still single. It's Selma and Louise. But on this podcast today, we thought it would be really interesting to pivot off of our story and bring on another non-celebrity gal

who went through some serious heartbreak out of her marriage, navigated the dating world, and has found herself happily remarried living her amazing chapter two. Welcome, Jennifer. I would just like to quickly point out that Jennifer and I have been best friends since we were in high school. She ruled the school. I wanted to be her. And I still want to be her because she has absolutely been my muse as I've watched her gracefully go through divorce, date like a fiend, and now get remarried to the most

amazing man. So Jennifer, take it away. Teach us what to do and how we can live the life that you are living. Well, and before, wait, actually, I want to interrupt. Before we begin, I also know Jennifer through Louise. And I have not known her nearly as long as Louise has, but have formed a friendship with her over the last couple of years and really only know her in her life today. So don't know well, I've heard, but don't know a lot about her history. So this is going to be equally as interesting to me, as it hopefully will be to all of you listeners. Jennifer, getting to your story, take us back to the beginning and tell us a little bit about your love journey and your chapter 1. Okay. First off, I just need you both to know. You could give my eulogy.

Well, let's hope you're not going anywhere soon. Unbelievable. We're not doing life without you, but carry on. All right. Okay, in like a cliff note version, I was married young, but back then it didn't feel young. So I was married, had two kids fully in love with my husband at the time. And after about six years, marriage, 10 years together, we have two kids in diapers, and I wake up one day. It's important to give some color to the age. What age were you when you got married and how old were your babies when all this was going on?

So I was married at 26. I had children at 28 and 30. When I woke up one day and realized the marriage was over, I had an 11-month-old. And a 1-5-year-old, right? Yes, yes. So I had like a 2 and an 11-month-old, yeah. So that's definitely the clip-knit version. Take us back a little bit.

How was your marriage? So, you know, I would say it was a healthy relationship that had its normal problems. Certainly nothing that I ever saw coming that we were, you know, that we were done. But when you go through a process like that, throughout the next months and years, you start, things start to click and you go, oh, okay, I'm reading, now I understand what that was, where I didn't understand to look for certain things at the time. But what were some of the normal problems? Okay, let's see.

So I have two kids in diapers and we didn't have sex enough. I wasn't emotionally affectionate enough. Is that according to him or how you felt towards him that you weren't bringing me? No, this was according to him and why he left me. So I, you know, of course, all those things, it's kind of like when you're younger and someone, a teacher or a family member tells you something and it sticks with you for the rest of your life. So now here I am when I find out why he's left me or his reason for why he left me. I'm now all messed up in my head because I'm like, oh, I'm not affection enough. I'm not emotionally available enough.

I'm, we're not having sex enough. So I was using all of those as like why I wasn't a good enough white. and why he left me. Did you think you were having problems or were you kind of in la la land about it and were completely surprised because everything you just said were basically kind of complaints he was blaming you for. I remember speaking to one of my friends that I'm very close with and telling her that I wasn't very happy about how I was feeling.

I wasn't, I was not sure what I was feeling. I just knew I wasn't totally happy. And one of the things, the main thing I thought was, we have two kids in diapers. We're really busy. And right now, some of our own one-on-one relationship is going to be on the back burner. Because here we are, like, you know, racing around with, you know, this one needs diaper change. This one needs a feeding. Like, you just, life is, it was hectic at that time.

Yeah. You don't always see yourself or your relationship, at least in the short term, with young children maybe is the priority. And so it's hard to make sense. Is this a relationship issue or just a time of life change in our relationship? Yeah. And I didn't, you know, I will take credit in maybe I didn't give him the kind of attention he needed, but I didn't know I wasn't. So you began to sense the, you know, the unraveling was happening. But, you know, everything, you had the babies, you just bought that brand new house. And by the way, there was no unraveling.

That's the part that was so crazy, is that I literally was like, I thought I was going crazy when he basically told me he was leaving. Well, he didn't tell me he was leaving. He gaslit you. He was a trainer. And you helped him through a relationship land what became his biggest client. Now, as listeners, do we all see where this is going? Probably not.

So let's hear it from you, Jennifer. So what happens, so to speak, like, how did this bomb go off? So, again, you know, I think a few months before I found out, I remember being on a trip with him and realizing that we weren't connecting. And the one thing I always knew about our relationship was we always connected. It just took a minute if we were busy with our lives. But when we would go out to a party or go out to dinner with a couple, we'd come home and like regroup what our night was like,

even though we were experiencing the night differently. And whenever we went on trips, we really bonded. And so we went on this trip and I came home. And I remember coming downstairs and saying to him, we didn't bond on this trip. You were so distant, something wasn't right. I don't feel good at all. And one of the things we used to do is play Rummy Q.

And so I remember going upstairs and being sad, and then he came downstairs, and he had the Rummy Q out on the kitchen table, like he was extending an olive branch to our conversation. So here I was thinking, okay, he acknowledges that we weren't vibing on this trip, and he's trying to make better for it. and like, you know, make it go away, like, let's start from here. So for me, there was no awareness of that he was having issues with me.

But was he staying out? Was he coming home late? Well, I guess when you are somebody who has a day job as a trainer, he didn't, he was home at night. So it was the daytime that I would have no idea to question where he was. all of that. But there was one moment that we were at, we were at an amusement park and we ran into the person that he had started to train when all of this distance started to take place. And I thought that was very weird that we ran into her, only because if he wasn't with me at this amusement Park and one of my boys, then he would have been seeing her to train her that day. So there had to

be some sort of awareness of what their day was. So I think at this point, let's just rip the band-aid off on that and quickly say that he started having an affair with this person. So can you tell us about how you found out kind of what happened, how the explosion happened, because it was a shock. The babies were young. I watched all of this. So why don't you share with our listeners what happened? So I remember, you know, not to get like, I mean, I could tell you the day and I can tell you the time, the actual time of day and what I was doing in my kitchen when this happened. And I remember it was probably the second or third time in that process of about a month and a half that I said to him on the phone because he was on his way to go train his

client, I said, I'm not happy. And it wasn't the first time I said it to him. And this time, instead of him gaslighting me, bringing out the rummy cube table, you know, game, telling me nothing's wrong. He said on the other line, neither am I. And those three words right then and there, I knew my marriage was over. And I remember saying, you need to come home and I, and we need to talk about this. And I remember him saying to me, I can't right now. Like, there were other priorities, which to me was baffling because how could there be anything else important other than God forbid something happens to your child? You come home after a conversation like that and he

finished his day or his client and then came home obviously it makes sense now what he was doing but when he came home I kind of grilled him like is there another person no there's no other person

is there like what is going on I don't understand and he just told me that he wasn't happy but you couldn't tell me why he wasn't happy and so I can't remember exactly the chronological way it came about, but it definitely, you know,

lended itself to, I'm not affectionate, I'm not emotionally available, that kind of stuff. And again, it didn't line up because we, I mean, we were celebrating our 10-year together

and we kept the same anniversary as our wedding date. So we were celebrating almost seven years of marriage, whatever the years were. So for me, I couldn't make sense of it. I mean, I went so far as to like, heck, the vitamins he was taking, like, is there something wrong? I couldn't make sense of it. Well, because you would ask the questions.

You'd ask the poignant questions. And it sounds like they weren't, he didn't really answer them. He kind of put them back on you. That's what they all do, right? I mean, all these men, when they get caught, they flip it around. And they say, no, you didn't do this. you didn't, you know, you didn't show me the love or the affectionate. They tried to, like, deflect it. Did you, did you ever, like, from when you found out versus, you know, having a weird

feeling, were you doing any, like, snooping or kind of searching around or, obviously, there was no, like, 360 or anything? Well, so remember, this is 2002, so we didn't have the same, like, texting hadn't even really happened yet. It's a good point. So it was different. So the only thing I could have done is waited for a bill to come in the mail for credit card. And it didn't even dawn on me to do that. So we didn't have that kind of snooping around. However, I do remember, well, I do remember seeing one credit card bill, but it was after I had already found out.

So it was irrelevant and it was flowers and I knew they weren't for me. But at that point, it was just another, like, you know, pain in my, my heart, but I had already known at that point. So how did you actually find out? So he, we had friends that we shared, but most of, we both came to the table with, you know, I came with a lot of friends and he came with a small group of friends. And I always kept my distance from some of his friends because I knew about certain things that I just, I always thought it was a little safer that like they were his friends.

Plus, I have so many friends, it was good for him to have his own friends. But there was one friend that I became friendly with the wife. And prior to us splitting about probably several years before, they had had a marriage misplick. They definitely had a moment hiccup. And while that was happening, my husband asked me if the husband could live with us. and of course we had the space and he lived with us and thankfully they worked out their marriage they had a young kid in diapers at the time and so living with us helped him get back on his feet with what he needed to do in his marriage so they are still together and what happened was for about two weeks from that day that he told me he wasn't happy and me trying to figure out like is this a midlife crisis there's not a another person. He said, what is happening? What is my role in this? What can I do to make it

better? He went and he stayed with a mutual family friend. And I, about 12 days into this nightmare, I get a phone call. And it's from this couple. And the husband had told the wife, and the wife was like, she helped us during our hardest times. She's got to know. And she came and she said, he's having an affair with this person. Oh, were you sucker punched? It didn't surprise me, but it gutted me. So I don't know. I mean, I knew there was an inkling of something wasn't right with this person in him.

But when he told me that there was no affair, I believed him. I really did. I did not think he was a liar. And you wanted to believe him, right? Of course. We all have that kind of voice in our head where something just kind of raises the hairs on our neck, but at the same time, we choose to not want to see things

or we want to believe somebody's words because your whole life, as you knew, with young, it was getting blown up, you know what I'm saying? Like, I mean, absolutely blown up. And one of the things I'll say is I also come from, you know, my parents now have been together over 60 years, years. And yes, they've had problems. And yes, they've, you know, I don't know everything that's happened in their marriage, but I always, I came from stability of this, this, this, um,

example of two people that truly loved and liked each other. And so getting cheated on was, like, not in my repertoire. My boyfriend's professor is way too friendly, and now I'm seriously suspicious. Well, wait a minute, Sam. Maybe her boyfriend's just looking for extra credit. Well, Dakota, it's back to school week on the OK Storytime podcast, so we'll find out soon. This person writes, my boyfriend has been hanging out with his young professor a lot. He doesn't think it's a problem, but I don't trust her.

Now, he's insisting we get to know each other, but I just want her gone. Now, hold up. Isn't that against school policy? That sounds totally inappropriate. Well, according to this person, this is her boyfriend's former professor, and they're the same age. And it's even more likely that they're cheating. He insists there's nothing between them. I mean, do you believe him?

Well, he's certainly trying to get this person to believe him because he now wants them both to meet. So, do we find out if this person's boyfriend really cheated with his professor or not? To hear the explosive finale, listen to the OK Storytime podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Hi, my name is Enya Umanzor. And I'm Drew Phillips. And we run a podcast called Emergency Intercom. If you're a crime junkie and you love crimes, we're not the podcast for you.

But if you have unmedicated ADHD... Oh my God, perfect. And want to hear people with mental illness, psychobabble. Yes, yes. Then Emergency Intercom is the podcast for you. Open your free IHeartRadio app. Search Emergency Intercom and listen now. The Super Secret Bestie Club podcast Season 4 is here.

And we're locked in. That means more juicy cheeseman. Terrible love advice. Evil spells to cast on your ex. No, no, no, no, we're not doing that this season. Oh, well, this season, we're leveling up. Each episode will feature a special bestie, and you're not going to want to miss it. Get in here!

Today we have a very special guest with us. Our new super secret bestie is The diva of the people. The diva of the people. I'm just like, text your ex. My theory is that if you need to figure out that the stove is hot, go and touch it. Go and figure it out for yourself. Okay. That's us.

My name is Curley. And I'm Maya. In each episode, we'll talk about love, friendship, heart breaks, men, and, of course, our favorite secrets. Listen to the Super Secret Bestie Club as a part of the MyCoutura podcast network available on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Everyone thinks they'd never join a cult, but it happens all the time to people just like you. and people just like us. I'm Lola Blanc. And I'm Megan Elizabeth.

We're the host of Trust Me, a podcast about cults, manipulation, and the psychology of belief. Each week we talk to fellow survivors, former believers, and experts to understand why people get pulled in and how they get out. Trust me, new episodes every Wednesday

on exactly right. Listen wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Jennifer Lopez. And in the new season of the Overcomber podcast, I'm taking you on an exciting journey of self-reflection. Am I ready to enter this new part of my life? Like, am I ready to be in a relationship? Am I ready to have kids and to really just devote myself and my time? I wanted to be successful on my own, not just because of who my mom is. Like, I felt like I needed to be better

or work twice as hard as she did. Join me for conversations about healing and growth. Life is freaking hard. And growth doesn't happen in comfort. It happens in motion, even when you're hurting. All from one. One of my favorite spaces, The Kitchen. Honestly, these are going to come out so freaking amazing. Be a part of my new chapter and listen to the new season of the Overcomfit podcast as part of the MyCultura podcast network on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. I need to now bring something up because it's something you and I have now since discussed.

and we look at it differently. Yes. I don't know if you know what I'm going to say. I know what you're going to say. So when you met him, train her husband. Yep, yep. He was, well, finishing a relationship. Yep.

Yeah. But was still in a relationship. And I always believe, once a cheater, always a cheater. Yeah. And you said, well, he were younger and we were kids and he, you know, it's different. It's like, no, no, no, no. That was his pattern. That was still his pattern.

And quite frankly, when we tell our listeners what's going on now, I think it's still his pattern. And I don't, but I hear you and agree with you what I would say, and I just, as bad as it is that it's like, oh, he was with somebody when I met him, I was 21, and he was telling me he was not going to be with her anymore. And I said, I'm not going to be with anybody while they're with somebody. But we did form an emotional relationship in that process without things happening. But at 21, you don't know better. It wasn't a comment on you. No more me identifying a potential red flag in him. That was maybe just, you know, in hindsight, you say to yourself, hmm, it makes total sense.

But I guess where you and I differ about the once a cheater, always a cheater is I do believe that I did for, you know, the 20 years. they were together, I did believe that he really wouldn't do that. And I don't know if he did or didn't. But I do believe that as we get older and our relationships and life gets on, I do believe that affairs happen for different reasons. So you have couples, and I know some of them who they're not, they're not sexually involved with each other anymore, but they love each other. So they stay together for that reason. And one of the people in the relationship doesn't want to have sex. I mean, I've even said to some of the people I know guys and girls in this situation where I'm like, if they did step out of their marriage, it wouldn't be the same version of an affair that I think what he did to me at the time.

100%. There's, you know, a lot of ways to skin that cat. But so she hit the fan for you. Yeah, big time. And what I remember watching, because I think this is kind of like really heartbreaking bad situation, but what I appreciated about you is you hit the ground running on the dating thing. Now it was probably a reaction to the rejection and how you were feeling. And you wanted to rip that band-aid up quickly.

And you were like spinning and spiraling and you were literally juggling so much. But you, I think within the first month, went on a date, multiple dates, correct? A week later. Wait, I want to take a step back, though, for a second. I know this is maybe not a popular thing to say, but, Jen, you are a smart, capable woman. And even if you did have two small children and might have been, you know, in a fog raising kids at the time, was there any part of you that when you found out relief probably is not the right word, but in a way, like, okay, I'm not crazy. and now I have to deal, you know, with this. And at least I know, like, because I think so much of it often can be the not knowing and thinking you're going crazy.

And so what do you do because you don't have the information? I think that getting the information was an aha, not even an aha moment, but it clarified things for me. but then it brought in a whole other level of bitch for me that I couldn't, I didn't, for those two weeks, wasn't even thinking about. So like tell us, tell us more, you know, about that. Well, just now your brain is like, okay, he's with this woman, my kids are in diapers, she's going to raise them.

You know, I have to sell the house. What am I going to do? You know, my job doesn't make enough money. But I love what I do. I just now have to kick it into gear. Like, your life kind of flashes in front of you. Like, what am I going to do? And I've got two kids and diapers.

And who's going to want to date a girl with two kids and diapers? Good point. How old were you at the time? Do you know? 31. Okay. That is so young. Yeah.

31 to 32. Okay. So Louise alluded to the fact that you hit the dating scene. So in the midst of your crazy, probably. you know, no sleeping and your mind going a mile a minute on what your life looked like. Practically speaking, it sounds like you started dating. I started dating. I slept with somebody probably the first two weeks into this.

And I remember it was so bad. Unlike her nun-like friends, Shelma and Louise. Well, here's the thing. But you got to remember, I was with, I was in relationships from like 15 on. on. So I never got to like sexually experience much. I was experiencing a lot of different experiences. And how did you like it? I mean, were you having fun? Were you doing that and then going home and crying? Or was it like actually fun? So the first one is the best. I'm dating this guy. Well, hold on. Just to interrupt. Were your kids going back and forth between both houses?

So you had 50% of the time to kind of at the time before anything happened, it went 70, 30? Because we had to go through mediation and all that before I was going to just give up more time with the kids. But I did have parents who were right up the street from me. So if it was a Thursday night and I would, you let the kids go to sleep and I, and they, you know, be with a family member or somebody who was in my home. So it wasn't like I was leaving them. I was part of the day. And then. I could go out where I didn't have to introduce anybody to them. So how did you meet people? Because did online dating even exist? Yeah. Yeah. The only thing that existed was J-Date and Match, and it was so, so new.

You didn't have Facebook. You didn't have any of that. So it was just Match and J-Date. So you couldn't verify. You really couldn't verify people. Yeah. And when I, well, the first date that I had had nothing to do with any of these. apps. In the beginning, I was being set up. And this first day, this poor guy, he was so lovely.

He would, if I had like something, a furniture that needed to be moved, he'd come and move it. He was so good looking and he was younger than me and I'm not into younger guys. But this guy, it was the first, when we, the first when we slept together, I just started bawling in front of him. I'm sure. And it was so awful because all I was. wanted to do was be home. And I remember as we started dating, he slept over once on a week and that my kids weren't here. And in the morning, he said to me, do you eat breakfast? And I was like, yeah, like, why? And he's like, well, I don't know, do you, you know, do you want to have

breakfast or whatever? And the way I reacted to him, he looked at me and he said, wow, if that wasn't, here's some eggs in a big cup and get the fuck out of here. And I was like, I'm so glad you get it. Like, yeah. Like, I want you out. I want, like, nothing to do with you right now. And there's a part of you that wants to move on. And, like, that's your right.

You know, during the day, I think I was really emotionally distraught, lived a rejection feeling all day long. So there was kind of a duality to your life going on at this point, right? Totally. Totally. But there was a major duality that is so beyond, painful. In addition to her, you know, dealing with the fact of the infidelity and a rejection and having to navigate dating and still having heartbreak, there was another woman who was

mothering her children in diapers, very different than a 15-year-old kid who's dealing with a stepmom. I mean, I never got over the stories you told me. Like, I was seeing red and I was always so impressed with how you stayed high when I would have wanted to rip to I would have ripped my child off of her lap. So you had a lot on your plate that was painful, uncomfortable, uncharted territory. And I just want to compliment you, Jennifer, because you always do wow me with how you paid. No, genuinely.

The one thing I would say that I've learned at looking back on it and have some humility in, I did with some of these guys' heads because I would get a drink in me, see them at night, and be in it. And then in the morning, I'd want to be out of it. And I think I really messed with their heads. And I think I hurt people and used them. And at the time, I didn't know that's what I was doing.

But looking back on it, I definitely played a role in not behaving the way I would want someone to treat me. Do you feel like you did that because it was. was, again, the duality of your life where it's like you wanted the freedom and the lightness at night and then the heaviness of the day? Or do you feel like you inherently at the time were kind of having trust issues with men and just weren't going to ever let yourself or let your guard down. And creating a wall. You know, I didn't have trust issues with men because I only found myself in relationships. And this is what's interesting because this is where your i do part two comes in for you girls dating and not that you don't know this but i realized

that all of these men that really were giving me their attention and wanting relationships i think they wanted the relationships because i couldn't care less i could take it or leave it and so that was what was attractive to them and that is why they were still in it because i didn't care. I didn't need them. You were like the dude in the relationship. I was. I was. And I didn't know it at the time. I would, I just now when I looked back on all of those pieces of my life, I realized, yeah, they wanted me because they couldn't have me. But you were unavailable. You can't fake that, you know? It's just, it is or it isn't. Yeah. Well, wait a minute, Sam, maybe her boyfriend's just looking for extra credit.

Well, Dakota, it's back to school week on the OK Storytime podcast, so we'll find out soon. This person writes, my boyfriend has been hanging out with his young professor a lot. He doesn't think it's a problem, but I don't trust her. Now, he's insisting we get to know each other, but I just want her gone. Now, hold up. Isn't that against school policy? That sounds totally inappropriate. Well, according to this person, this is her boyfriend's former professor, and they're the same age.

And it's even more likely that they're cheating. He insists there's nothing between them. I mean, do you believe him? Well, he's certainly trying to get this person to believe him because he now wants them both to meet. So, do we find out if this person's boyfriend really cheated with his professor or not? To hear the explosive finale, listen to the OK Storytime podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Hi, my name is Enya Umanzor. And I'm Drew Phillips.

And we run a podcast called Emergency Intercom. If you're a crime junkie and you love crimes, we're not the podcast for you. But if you have unmedicated ADHD... Oh, my God, perfect. And want to hear people with mental illness, psychobabble. Yes, yes. Then Emergency Intercom is the podcast for you. Open your free IHeartRadio app.

Search Emergency Intercom and listen now. My name is Ed. Everyone say hello, Ed. Hello, Ed. I'm from a very rural background myself. My dad is a farmer. And my mom is a cousin. So, like, it's not...

What do you get when a true crime producer walks into a comedy club? I know it sounds like the start of a bad joke, but that really was my reality nine years ago. I just normally do straight stand-up, but this is a bit different. On stage stood a comedian with a story that no one expected to hear. The 22nd of July 2015, a 23-year-old man had killed his family. And then he came to my house. So what do you get when a true crime producer walks into a. a comedy club. A new podcast called Wisecrack, where stand-up comedy and murder takes

center stage. Available now. Listen to Wisecrack on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Everyone thinks they'd never join a cult. But it happens all the time to people just like you. And people just like us. I'm Lola Blanc and I'm Megan Elizabeth. We're the hosts of Trust Me, a podcast about cults, manipulation, and psychology of belief. Each week we talk to fellow survivors, former believers, and experts to understand why people get pulled in and how they get out. Trust me, new episodes every Wednesday on exactly right. Listen wherever you get your podcasts. The Super Secret Festi Club podcast season four is here. And we're locked in. That means more juicy chisement. Terrible love advice.

Evil spells to cast on your ex. No, no, no, no. We're not doing that this season. Oh, well, this season, we're leveling up. Each episode will feature a special bestie, and you're not going to want to miss it. Get in here! Today, we have a very special guest with us. Our new super secret bestie is The Deepa of the People. The Deep of the People. I'm just like text your ex.

My theory is that if you need to figure out that the stove is hot, go and touch it. Go and figure it out for yourself. Okay. That's us. That's us. My name is Curley. And I'm Maya. In each episode, we'll talk about love, friendship, heart breaks, men, and, of course, our favorite secrets.

Listen to the Super Secret Bestie Club as a part of the Michael Tura podcast network available on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. So tell us about how you met your current love and how long it took, you know, just briefly like you dated around. I dated for like, let's see, I dated for about five years. And then one day, it's Father's Day. And I was coming home from Malibu, and I was in the backseat of my parents' car. And out of nowhere, one of my parents said, oh, so-and-so gave your number to this guy. And I remember thinking, okay, whatever, I'll never hear from him. So it didn't matter.

And then I remember walking, my parents dropped me off, and I came into the house. and my house phone rang and I answered it and it was this guy and I was thinking to myself really first of all I had a blackberry so he called me on my house phone which I thought was wild but then again who gave him my number was an older person so they're going to go with the house phone he had a really good phone and then we went on our first date he's a babe and he's funny he's very funny very dry sense of humor back here He's kind of guy, full integrity more than I've ever seen. But it was a slow burn for you, which is important because this is a lesson you're always trying

to teach me and to teach Thelma and to teach other people is, you know, the slow burn sometimes has the staying power and it's the integrity and all of those kind of characteristics which are so much more important than the immediate butterfly or the whatever, the spark you feel or the things that you think are important that really aren't. So talk a little bit about him. And it was, it was a, I remember when he proposed to you, you were, you had some pause. Yeah. Yeah. And I knew I didn't want to give the relationship up. And if you say no, then where do you go from there? But I also knew that I wanted him in my life. And so I had to really think about that but it was you know when meeting him that first night at dinner he like interrogated me he's

so bad on dates um but he was so funny i remember going home i remember calling my mom in the car saying yeah it was a great date he's really handsome i'll never hear from him again and she's like why i said i'm too old for him because he's 10 years older than me but at the time you know he could had, you know, girls in their 30s, and that's just the real, or I was in my 30s, you know what I mean, girls in their 20s. And he, you know, it's just a double standard. And so I just thought I'd never hear from him. And the next morning, I opened up my, my Blackberry, and there was a text that made me laugh. And I was like, okay, I'm into it. I'm in this. And we always say how important laughter is. It's my favorite thing. So important. I mean, it, it,

It's like, and he makes, he's funny. He's funny. And that is something that, like, when somebody says, like, what are your favorite qualities about him, you know, integrity is always the first thing. Always the funny, and yes, I know he's handsome. I'm not discrediting that. And yes, what I've ended up with him if he wasn't handsome, I don't know. Maybe I wouldn't have gotten to the next steps with him.

But certainly that is not what our relationship is about. And it's been 17 years. 16 years. And what I have witnessed just in being in your lives. And I know what you've also shared is, his integrity has continued every day. Because he really, and I think it's important to talk about how he really stepped up in a meaningful way as a co-parent to your children. And what really mattered to me, he brought to the table. And you always say that.

I think what I'm marvel at is that you obviously, your first chapter was a huge, you know, a huge pivot and turn in your life that you never expected, but yet you have been able to go on and date and get married. And having been, you know, through a divorce myself, I think time is the greatest healer. and everybody wants to expedite that and you just can't to a certain extent. But what other things or advice would you give to people that are struggling kind of post-divorce right now? Like, what advice would you give to them?

And what do you think helped you, you know, remain open to finding love and dating again? Well, I feel like even though I always felt like I was walking around with like that scarlet letter on me that I was left. I was the girl that, you know, here I was at, you know, a school where all the kids in kindergarten in first grade and second grade. And my kids were like, everybody's parents are married. And I always felt like I had this, this, like, this thing I was carrying with me that I walked around during the day as somebody who was left. And I think that was something that I brought to my inner core. But I didn't present that on my day. and when I was with people.

You never did, ever. But I carried it inside my core. And so for me, I am a slow learner. So it took me, I would say just till COVID. So that's what, four years ago, when it finally clicked that this wasn't a me issue. I played a part in it of all the stuff that happened through those, you know, years of raising my kids with him and having to go through that

very difficult process. But it wasn't a me issue and I always thought it was. I thought I was the bad person in, I wasn't handling it well. I was creating more drama than needed to be and some of it I was. But I finally realized something clicked about four years ago. I saw him at like a parking lot and it just dawned on me oh no this is a him issue this is who he is or was and who he is with me and i've allowed him to dictate how i feel about myself and i finally woke up that day i remember coming home going i really it's like i just purged all that stuff i held about me and was able to actually heal and work on me for the first time That must be, I mean, so freeing.

And it kind of segues, I feel like, into our next topic, which you may know what that is. But in a strange turn of events, right, your ex-husband recently ended his relationship with the woman who helped facilitate the end of your homewrecker. We're going to call her the homewrecker. Stop, stop, stop. Sorry, homewucker. My boyfriend's professor is way too friendly, and now I'm seriously suspicious. Oh, wait a minute, Sam. Maybe her boyfriend's just looking for extra credit.

Well, Dakota, it's back to school week on the OK Storytime podcast, so we'll find out soon. This person writes, my boyfriend has been hanging out with his young professor a lot. He doesn't think it's a problem, but I don't trust her. Now, he's insisting we get to know each other, but I just want her gone. Now, hold up. Isn't that against school policy? That sounds totally inappropriate. Well, according to this person, this is her boyfriend.

former professor, and they're the same age. And it's even more likely that they're cheating. He insists there's nothing between them. I mean, do you believe him? Well, he's certainly trying to get this person to believe him because he now wants them both to meet. So, do we find out if this person's boyfriend really cheated with his professor or not? To hear the explosive finale, listen to the OK Storytime podcast on the IHeart Radio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Hi, my name is Enya Umanzor. And I'm Drew Phillips. And we run a podcast called Emergency Intercom. If you're a crime junkie and you love crimes, we're not the podcast for you. But if you have unmedicated ADHD... Oh my God, perfect. And want to hear people with mental illness, psychobabble.

Yes, yes. Then Emergency Intercom is the podcast for you. Open your free IHeartRadio app. Search Emergency Intercom and listen now. My name is Ed. Everyone say hello, Ed. Hello, Ed. I'm from a very rural background myself.

My dad is a farmer. And my mom is a color. What do you get when a true crime producer walks into a comedy club? I know it sounds like the start of a bad joke, but that really was my reality nine years ago. I just normally do straight stand-up, but this is a bit different. On stage stood a comedian with a story that no one expected to hear. The 22nd of July 2015, a 23-year-old man had killed his family.

And then he came to my house. So what do you get when a true crime producer walks into a comedy club? A new podcast called Wisecrack, where stand-up comedy and murder takes center stage. Available now. Listen to Wisecrack on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Everyone thinks they'd never join a cult.

But it happens all the time to people just like you. And people just like us. I'm Lola Blanc. And I'm Megan Elizabeth. We're the hosts of Trust Me, a podcast about cults, manipulation, and the psychology of belief. Each week we talk to fellow survivors, former believers, and experts to understand why people get pulled in and how they get out. Trust me. New episodes every Wednesday on exactly right.

Listen wherever you get your podcasts. Hello, it's Honey German. And my podcast, Grasas Come Again, is back. This season, we're going even deeper into the world of music and entertainment with raw and honest conversations with some of your favorite Latin artists and celebrities.

You didn't have to audition? No, I didn't audition. I haven't audition in, like, over 25 years. Oh, wow. That's a real G-talk right there. Oh, yeah. We've got some of the biggest actors, musicians, content creators, and culture shifters

sharing their real stories, of failure and success. You were destined to be a start. We talk all about what's viral and trending with a little bit of chisement, a lot of laughs, and those amazing vibras you've come to expect. And of course, we'll explore deeper topics dealing with identity, struggles,

and all the issues affecting our Latin community. You feel like you get a little whitewash because you have to do the code switching? I won't say whitewash because at the end of the day, you know, I'm me. Yeah? But the whole pretending and code, you know, but it takes a toll on you.

Listen to the new season of Grasas Has Come Again as part of My Cultura Podcast Network on the IHartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Tell us a little bit more about that and some, the irony here. I would say throughout all these, you know, I call it 20 years because really I think about, it was 20 years in this process of their relationship. And there were times where the two of us, we always, you know, we always did birthday dinners, graduations, important things we would do together. And you always showed up with a smile on your face and you were so mature and so gracious

because you did not want your children to suffer. And the truth is my kids were going to pick up on stuff regardless. I mean, there's only so much we can hide from our kids and depending on their age. I was lucky that my kids were the age they were. So I was able to navigate that a lot easier than other people we know who go through this with their kids being of a different age. So I would say that throughout the years, we were either hot and cold with each other. There'd be times where my ex and I were fine with each other. We're never great with each other, but we'd be fine.

And then there were times we were not fine at all. And I'm sure she had to feed off of that and navigate. and was also only hearing his version of what was going on although she was trivia to the emails and the bullshit that we did but she was coming from his place and she needed to support him

but what I would say is I would say to you Louise I would say like well you know I could see us being friends if we didn't have this situation and you'd be like out of your mind like what like that's not possible but I always knew that

we had, we were comfortable, awkwardly comfortable, Randy Sheldix. That says a lot about you because there are many women who are in this situation that can't even be in the same room as somebody. And it's just a testament to who you are. But it's interesting because now that their relationship has ended and life is full circle. Yes. And, you know, your kids have obviously remained close to her because she did be you know she was a part of you know parenting them for 20 years um but i just find it so fascinating what is going on with the two of you if you care with our listeners because i think this is so interesting and i think it would you know for people of experiences and who may be in the throes of a situation like this you know to see how life can

change and in the most unexpected circumstances you have a new friend and a new ally and And I also think, please bring up to everybody that, like, the story she was told was different than what happened, was different than the story he told you. And I think she, we ran into each other several months ago and we had a conversation and that conversation led into her calling me after the conversation, like 15 minutes later and having a little bit more of a conversation. And then when I hung up, I had said to her, if you ever want to grab a drink, I'm available. And I think somehow within a few weeks later, she may have texted me, and that was my

opportunity to basically ask her out for dinner. Did you offer that as some version of a closure that you needed, or were you offering it to be, you know, an ear for her to talk to? I think a combination, because I had already made my own closure. So I didn't need it so much, but I would have loved if I was given that at the time. And one of the things that she said to me after our first dinner, our first date. How many have you had now? I think four or five.

I mean, you're pretty, you're almost exclusive at this point. He's going to join our girls' dinner soon. You don't want to sit her at a table with a few of us, but go on. Do your kids know that you guys have said? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, we definitely talk to the kids. The kids are too old to not know, and they actually are very happy about it. it? No, does your ex-husband know? Well, I'll share that in a second. But what we've given each other

is forgiveness. We've given each other a space to feel seen and heard and it's safe, hopefully, to share the pain we've both experienced. And that very few people can experience that kind of pain. And I think it has been healing more so for her to be able to have that. But I also think it gives, honestly, because she's hardbroken. Well, we assume. We assume, yeah. Okay. And she loved him. And I also think if I were in her seat and I would see that the beautiful life that you created, you know, and the Phoenix out of the ashes, it would give me hope that I, too, can experience, you know, another chapter after what happened to her. And I think that that's part of it also. Well, and I think as a side note,

do you remember a couple weeks ago? You also said, oh, we should set her up with this. Which I was like, wow, I mean, that, if that is not the kindest person I've ever met. Yes. But that's on a light note. But more seriously, when Louise said, you know, Jennifer, if that had happened to a lot of people, your story, never would they have been kind or welcoming or any of those things to and the ex's partner. But I think that you are such an example because so often the anger that we hold when we are going through a divorce, we fail to realize that it's like that anger is just a cancer in us and it's punishing ourselves. And it's really easy to say, you know, oh, move on. But it's like it's when that miracle happens that you finally can let go. And you realize you're like,

I'm just punishing myself and keeping myself in this holding pattern by staying angry and giving the other person and the event and all of it, like, more at her time. And I think you're such an example of how to do it. And in the rear view mirror, it makes you really subscribe to rejection is redirection. It really isn't, you know, I would say it's definitely shaped me for who I am now. And I think I'm the best version of myself to date. Always room for improvement. But one of the things I didn't mention was when I met my husband, he's a product of this very same situation. So he came to my life and opened up my eyes what it felt like as a kid going through this. So he helped me navigate that place. He also helped me

navigate what it was like because one of the things that I wanted was I wanted my ex to approve of me, to like me. I wanted his wife or girlfriend to like me. And he, it's the same thing as I was saying with dating. If you want something so bad, you're so not attractive and you're not going to get that. And when I finally realized, when I said earlier, oh, this isn't a me issue, there was nothing I, the only thing I was doing was forcing something that they didn't want with me. Well, that was you trying to resolved probably the rejection piece, right? Like, yeah. That was still trying to you to kind of get their approval and be lovable, basically,

because you were so, you heard. And what you learned to do was basically, to quote Mel Robbins, let them and then let me, right? Yeah. Yeah, but that took me so long. Of course. It really did. Like I said, I'm a slow learner.

But when it finally clicked, I went, oh, okay. Like, I wish I could take back time. apply it then, but I just didn't have it. And Thelma, when you asked me earlier, like, what kind of advice would you give? In my business, I am approached by women and some men, but mostly women, weekly, with a situation like this to some degree, whether it's about an affair or a marriage not working out or a relationship ending. And the best advice I would give for me is, and I've said this so many times to people in my office, is be kind. You can be in a relationship and not be happy and want out, but just be kind about it. And I've said that with so many people who are not in marriages that are working, and I'll say to them, just all I can offer is if you don't want to be.

in this marriage and your partner does, be kind about it. Because a marriage, if it's not going to work, it's not going to work. But how you treat somebody at the end of the day, how you exit. It's how you. That is huge. And also, it's not, the way it looks today is not the way it necessarily looks five years, 10 years. Like, you know, so you always need to act with integrity, kind of back to what you said.

Yeah. And one of the things on our first date, our, after our first date, he said to me, you deserved a different ending. And that was something that really resonated with me because it was like, thank you. Now you, like, at least it was like the end of, like, it's an aha moment. You needed that. It was her version of an apology. So before we close, I do have an important question as somebody who is in a very day-to-day, you know,

situations with Thelma and myself. So you are somebody who dated successfully, tried on a lot, has been in a really happy marriage. What advice would you give to us so that we too can get to your kind of final destination? What are we doing wrong? Like share with our listeners as somebody who's, you know, basically step through that sliding door and we're still where we are. like help help us i think it's less about what you're doing wrong i think i feel two different things with louise i feel this is good brace yourself i know oh here comes the attack on louise and i've said this to you you need to give something more time i don't think you need to give

something time that doesn't feel good from the get-go but when you are you know you've met somebody that makes you feel excited and looking forward to going on that next date and that next date. And when you're with them, you come back feeling really good. And when you're not with them out of sight, out of mind, I think that, and I've said this to you, you need that push of spending the night and waking up and going through the awkward breakfast. Right? Yeah.

And like all of your quirks and stuff. See more gray, not black or white, like you have to decide. Am I going ahead with this or am I breaking? Yeah, like just be in it enough that you know that, you know, you really know that person intimately, not sexually, but intimately before you know if they're right or wrong for you, unless there's no feeling there. I got it.

It's just hard because the opportunity of having dinners with Felma and Jennifer like we'll be doing in one hour is just, it really lights me up. I have to say it's a very hard ex-fell. And what advice would you give? I know, what's my advice? Okay. So your advice is, I have noticed, as we've gotten closer, that you really could care less about putting yourself together and going out.

You'd rather put yourself together to go out with the girls. And you'd rather you have a date and him cancel and you're happy about it. You are so true. That is not going to get. get you out there meeting, Mr. Wonderful, who gets to appreciate you. No, I told you. My brother's always said they are not going to find you in your home. In your pajamas.

Yeah. And by the way, I mean, like that last date, I was just so happy you went on it for 40 minutes. It was 58 minutes, guys. It was 58 minutes. Tell them what I said to you. So just quickly, and then we'll close up. So she had a date last week, and we don't want to, we want to leave them any more. So we were going to cap it at an hour, 5.30, and then I was going to swoop it

and get her at 6.30, and then we were going to go hit Baltimore. Wait, let me first say, do you know what Louise initially said? Okay, well, just keep your seats at the bar. Tell him you're ending the date and I'll just take his seat. And I was like, do my God, I am a lot of things, but I am not tone deaf. I am not going to tell him to get up so somebody could take his seat. I'm like, I'm going to go out the back door or the front door and you're going to swing by and pick me up. But when I had said to her, I said, look, I'm going to check in midday.

And if you want to continue the date, you could, we don't have to have dinner that night. So I text her and I'm like, yo, should I get in the car? She goes, yeah, I'll be ready in five minutes. I was like, what? I'll get into traffic. And she goes, I'll just, I go,

I'll pick you up. She goes, nope, I'll walk across the street. And she was perched there. And when I walked in, I felt like the fucking prom queen. Her face lit up. You were so happy to see. Oh, and I got totally buzzed that night because like I was getting.

when I met Louise. It was like, I nursed a drink with him. And then I was like, oh, my night can begin. Yes, I definitely. So you see what you're connecting the dots here? I am. Thank you. I want you to get giddy when you see your girlfriends,

but I want you to make an effort to just, not a date a week, but just set your standards of like, I'm going to show up. I like the data week. I am all for the day to week. I understand. And by the way, kudos to you that you guys can find that and do it. I mean, it's hard. I have two dates this week.

I know. I'm very proud of you. But, you know, two dates. Well, I just have to tell you, Jennifer, thank you so much, honestly, for coming on and sharing your story. It's very nice when somebody is willing to be vulnerable. And thanks for sharing your journey and telling everyone, our listeners, what you've been through.

And hopefully it serves to be inspirational for people who are going through it right now. And I have a lesson that even if you have a traumatic. experience, you still can find your part too. Yep. And I just, just one more thing to add. If you guys, as our listeners, enjoyed participating in Jennifer's, you know, story, Phelma and I have a lot of people with a lot of stories that would love to come on and share. So, oh, there's so many people with these kinds of stories. We have a big crew of people. So if this resonates with our listeners, let us know. But the people who, you know, again, they're going through it, but they also have a light at the end of the tunnel.

So if you are struggling with post-divorce, we would love to help you. Apparently, I may not be the right person as I've just been given the advice. But please call or email us, follow us on socials, and all of the information will be in the show notes. So make sure to rate and review this podcast. I do part two, an IHeart Radio podcast where falling in love is the main objective. My boyfriend's professor is way too friendly, and now I'm seriously suspicious. Wait a minute, Sam. Maybe her boyfriend's just looking for extra credit. Well, Dakota, luckily, it's back to school week on the OK Storytime podcast, so we'll find out soon.

This person writes, my boyfriend's been hanging out with his young professor a lot. He doesn't think it's a problem, but I don't trust her. Now he's insisting we get to know each other, but I just want her gone. Oh, hold up. Isn't that against school policy? See, that seems inappropriate. Maybe find out how it ends by listening to the OK Storytime podcast and the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, my name is Enya Yumanzoor.

And I'm Drew Phillips. And we run a podcast called Emergency Intercom. If you're a crime junkie and you love crimes, we're not the podcast for you. But if you have unmedicated ADHD... Oh, my God, perfect. And want to hear people with mental illness. Psychobabble. Yes, yes.

Then Emergency Intercom is the podcast for you. Open your free IHeartRadio app. Search Emergency Intercom and listen now. Betrayal Weekly is back for season two with brand new stories. The detective comes driving up fast and just like screeches right in the parking lot. I swear I'm not crazy, but I think he poisoned me. I feel trapped. My breathing changes.

I realize, wow, like he is not a mentor. He's pretty much a market. monster. But these aren't just stories of destruction. They're stories of survival. I'm going to tell my story and I'm going to hold my head up. Listen to Betrayal Weekly on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Every case that is a cold case that has DNA right now in a backlog will be identified in our lifetime. On the new podcast, America's Crime Lab, every case has a story to tell. And the DNA holds the truth.

He never thought he was going to get caught. And I just looked at my computer screen. I was just like, ah, gotcha. This technology's already solving so many cases. Listen to America's Crime Lab on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What would you do if one bad decision forced you to choose between a maximum security prison or the most brutal boot camp designed to be hell on earth? Unfortunately for Mark Lombardo,

This was the choice he faced. He said, you are a number, a New York State number, and we own you. Listen to shock incarceration on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast.