The Ben and Ashley I Almost Famous Podcast - Ben and Ashley Yell All

Episode Date: March 20, 2024

It’s time for the Women Tell All for Joey’s season, and Ben & Ashley are NOT holding back! Have you noticed how much of the Tell All is screaming? We get Ben and Ashley’s honest reaction to the energy level from the contestants. Find out who we think was trying to get applause from the audience… and who was legit. Plus, Ashley shares some inside info about her friend and contestant Sydney and how she came across on the Tell All.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Why are TSA rules so confusing? You got a hood of you. I'm take it all! I'm Manny. I'm Noah. This is Devin. And we're best friends and journalists with a new podcast called No Such Thing,

where we get to the bottom of questions like that. Why are you screaming? I can't expect what to do. Now, if the rule was the same, go off on me. I deserve it. You know, lock him up. Listen to No Such Thing on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. No such thing.

This is the Ben and Ashley I, Almost Famous Podcast with Iheart Radio. Hey guys, it's the Almost Famous Podcast, and today we're recapping something that I really wish that we didn't have to. The women tell all. This is the stupidest thing I've ever watched. Was it not the, it was the worst, and you guys know we hate tellalls. I hate recapping the tell-all because recapping a recap is kind of difficult. This one's particularly difficult because it was like a housewife tell-all. It was just a scream match.

I couldn't make out anything. I know that Ben was just telling me that he feels like an alien on this planet sometimes because he doesn't understand social media and blah, blah, blah. And I felt like an alien or I felt like an old person watching this because I couldn't really follow what they were saying at all. Like the first 20 minutes, I said to Jared, can you explain, can you interpret what just happened? And then he was like, Maria's a dick. And I was like, wait, what?

I was like, well, okay, but can you explain yourself? He's like, she literally wouldn't let anybody else talk. And it was just like a screaming match. And I was like, okay, well, everybody else is obsessed with Maria, so I'm not sure if you're right about this. I'm remaining neutral. Well, I, we will get into the details of how we feel about each conversation because it is what we're here for. I really hated watching this episode. And the reasons are a few things.

One, it's so unhealthy. There's nothing healthy about this. There is no, I know people will probably point and say, yes, but they made up in the end. No, they didn't. That was very confusing to me and felt very produced. Ben, that was girls just wanting to be like, let's get the applause from the audience.

We'll apologize. There's no way we're actually going to be friends after this. There's no way we're even going to like smile at each other backstage. that was to appease people and to like make them like everybody look decent in the end. I will, you know, give credit to my friend Sydney, who I do think made a good move when she just said like, you know what? I was annoying. We didn't see eye to eye and I wish I did things differently. It was a good response. I'm really glad that she said what she said. But overall, like with the hugging and stuff, like Maria coming and hugging.

And the Leah thing, the Leah thing was weird because they're screaming at each other. And this is where I think you're saying that you're confused. Screaming at each other. Then they go to break. Then Leah is crying. And then before you know it, Maria is coming over and hugging her. And they're like, I love you. And it's like very weird.

And it's like, you're a great woman. Like Leah says, like, you're a wonderful woman. And I'm like, oh, what happened here? Here's my kind of like overall quote for the evening. A bunch of wrongs don't make a right. And it felt like it was wrong, wrong, wrong, yell, yell at each other. Okay. I'm not saying anybody was better than anybody else here.

I do think we got some insight into some of the things that were said during the season about Maria. We did now get kind of a group consensus that said, no, she didn't actually say those things. Like I said those things. Well, that's, yeah. Lauren was like, I was the one that said, shut the fuck up. Yeah. So, like, there was a consensus there. So it's like, okay, why were you hating on Maria so bad?

What it ended up being was, you just didn't like her. And that's not a good reason to be so mean to somebody. But everybody was just yelling at each other. You had a couple people in the back row that were there for two episodes that were wanting to get their insights in. So you could barely hear what anybody else was saying. They were making sure their voice was heard, which is always a thing that happens this episode and then and then they're good and it's like what happened in between here because

you just made somebody cry you just made maria walk through a season of being called a bully sydney your whole experience on this show was awful like you that there was no way you're happy you went on this show at any point in time because it really was just from the moment it started to the moment you left it was a wreck it was hard it was grew ruling and then you left the show and it's even been worse you know so like what happened in between to then all of a sudden you guys are good again because for me i barely saw an apology from anybody i saw a lot of people still trying to get their jabs in still trying to say yeah but you know you did say this or i heard it this way but i'm sorry and it's like no that's not how an

apology works. That's not how a genuine like reconciliation of a relationship works. You don't just make somebody cry. You don't make somebody suffer through a whole season of being called a bully. You don't walk through this show and the experience that you did. And then

all of a sudden because somebody starts crying, everybody's good again. That I don't, that's a very unhealthy way to at all resolved like issues. And it felt like that's what happened here. For me, For me, the apologies at this point are really, again, for the audience because, like,

you're just not going to be friends with the people that you really make enemies with that, like that in the house to that extent. Well, we did. Okay. So let's start. Or you really have a fresh start. And that's called Paradise. And like, for some reason, we can kind of put the past away.

It's always a beautiful moment when the past goes away. I mean, 90% of time it does because there was a quote this episode that said, I never really got to know you. on this season. They were talking about Maria. I think that's very true. They never took the time to really get to know her. They just didn't like her because as Medina said, it was some of the ways that the cadence of how things were said or when it was said or how it was said. And so it threw people off right away. Let's start at the beginning because I do have some feelings about what Jared said, about Maria won't let anybody talk, about Sidney's apology, about Leah, about

Medina. Also, Jess, who was such a big storyline this season for so long, and I felt like we got a little insight into where she's at. Overall, though, we say it every year, I feel more strongly about it this season because it was such a good season. It did have its bumps. It did have its controversies. It did have some character slamming throughout. However, Overall, it's been a great season of The Bachelor and a lot of healthy things have came from it. I think this women tell all, this whole idea is unhealthy. I think it's unnecessary.

It's a filler episode by all means. I do not enjoy it. I don't enjoy watching it. I was very happy that it was basically half tell all, half regular episode though, because we got the note. conclusion and then we got rachel's dumping and then their moment so we really didn't have to go through suffer through much and it was really the yelling match for only about 20 minutes because then we started doing hot seats and hot seats are easier to watch because it's not the whole

crew yelling at each other yeah okay let's start at the beginning we do have the ladies there there isn't any massive um stars from this season who do not show up which typically we do get kudos to really all of the women who are involved in any type of controversy actually coming to the tell all. You don't really have to. It's not like forced upon. You can say no. But it's a big deal that they did. We do have obviously the big storyline we just talked about. So let's dive in here to really the biggest part of the whole thing, which is the Maria, Leah, Sydney, Jess, drama. Medina kind of gets mixed into it a little bit. Ashley, I feel like the fans got what they wanted because they do love Maria.

I understand why. She is relatable in a lot of ways. I mean, I think you could picket this and say, yeah, she didn't really let anybody talk. I mean, she even admitted when somebody said, hey, you just always interrupted me. And she interrupted the person. She's like, see, I'm doing it again. But her reasoning was, I can't let you say things that are not true. following that statement by Maria, there are women in the back row that say yes.

Maria did not say the things that you said she said. I said those things. Or Adwina said, I never witnessed any of the things that you're saying Maria said about you. Medina stands up for Maria. So is it right for Maria to interrupt? I don't know. I don't think it's wrong because if, if these women are still trying to get their, like, words out and say, no, this is what was upsetting

me about you. This is what you were saying. She's like, I didn't say that stuff. Stop saying I said that stuff. I do think that's fair. Because as soon as those words are out there, I do think they live in people's minds. And Maria is just trying to say, I did not say the things you said, I, you're not, I did not say the things that you set are saying I said about you. So yes, it did feel like Maria did exactly what they were saying she does? Yes, it did. However, I don't think it was wrong. I don't think it was necessary. It might have been annoying for the girls. I just don't think it was wrong. I think the only time for me, Ashley, it felt overdone was with Jess. Because I think Jess is really hurt. That was my point earlier. I think she really was nervous to be there. I think she really

isn't the type of person that wanted to walk off screen the way she walked off the show. I think she was trying to like tell a story of how she was feeling and what led her up to that moment. I don't exactly think she was trying to make anything worse for Maria. But Jess was like really hurt. You could tell I think in her tone and just how she stood up for herself was that she was really wanting to go there and just kind of be like, I'm sorry. Like I didn't like you, Maria.

You were driving me crazy. Every other time Maria interrupted, I thought it was totally appropriate because it was starting to go off the rails for a bit. Jared said, Jared wasn't even there for the Jess moment because the just moment is when I was like, okay, now the interrupting is becoming obnoxious. He was just talking about before, like all the talking over before. But I'm like, okay, that's interesting. It's just interesting because like everybody else is obsessed with Maria.

So I don't know if you're looking at it. it through a different lens. I really try to look at it like a little bit more neutrally. Well, she's a fiery character, Ashley. I know. I mean, she's not going to be everybody's cup of tea. However, I do think, uh, what people love about her. She says what she feels. She stands up for herself. Um, she is funny. Uh, she's charismatic. She obviously is a lot more comfortable in these environments than 90% of the other women. Oh. Like, 100% and it translates and that's what makes her a lot more likable I think she's so comfortable but I'd also say that like I do think she gets like a little bit of a blind support from the audience

like they do not want to hear anybody else's side and I know where I'm coming I know the perspective that I'm coming from is different but it's like you screw with Maria like you screw with me like they make it they feel like she is their best friend they have like maria blinders on and you can see that they didn't mention it when rachel came out and was talking about the hate that she was getting on social media but a lot of the hate that she was getting from social media last you know a week or so ago after hometowns or not yeah after hometowns when maria was eliminated and she wasn't was like how dare you take maria Maria's spot.

Well, I think Maria has a massive following. I think people are very invested into her story. I do believe it probably came because they felt like she was getting treated unfairly from the very beginning. I think this tell all will only solidify their support for Maria because I think what comes out of this outside of all the confusion and the craziness and the yelling and people talking over each other and not really knowing where the, the conversation's going half the time.

I think the one thing we can get take from this is that Maria was not in the wrong. And I say that, and I know that could seem weird, outside of her interrupting people, which you could say was appropriate and maybe not appropriate in the just situation, at least that's my feeling. Outside of that, we did hear a couple things come out of it. One, we heard somebody say, no, she didn't say that. I said that. Wait, can I say this one thing?

Jared was like, okay, what's the difference between shut the fuck up and zip it? It's just as annoying. It's not what they said she said. I think that's the big thing. I think what was, I think maybe if we dive into that, what was happening was there was obviously a scenario going on where multiple people felt like that person needed to stop talking because they were saying things that was ridiculous. Also, you had multiple women, Edwina and Medina. It's very hard. Edwina and Medina saying together, yeah.

Specifically, we're coming out and saying, you just didn't like Maria because of like how she is or what she says, but she wasn't doing the things you said she was doing. She was not a bully to me. And it really carries the most weight coming from Medina for me because this whole thing started with a comment and a situation with Medina. And so if Medina is sitting at the side of Maria being like, hey, you know what? Like what she said really wasn't bad at all?

Like it was fine, given the context, then I'm like, where did this whole thing come from? It obviously was just that you didn't like this person. You felt threatened by this person. And so in conclusion here, the one thing we can get from the tell-all is that Maria was treated unfairly for a majority of the season by three women, Leia, Sidney, Jess, because of some angst that they had against her. Now, if you want to dive into the semantics of, you know, how that played out in the tell all or how that played out in the season, we can't. I don't think it's really helpful.

And I think it's going to lead us to the same conclusion. It does lead to the same conclusion, which is you and I kind of established weeks ago. They have totally different ways of, like, communicating. And those girls did not like her style. Yes. And so the fans see this whole thing playing out. And they're like, hey, Maria wasn't the wrong here. Like, I'm on Maria's side.

And then they watch the tell. And they're like, I'm still on Maria's side because now they're readily admitting along with a quorum of people saying Maria didn't say these things. And so she was treated unfairly. This was a hard road for her. And so they're going to come out in more support following the telloff for her, which is fine, which is great. My hope, my hope, if anything, with the.

apology that came out of nowhere, really, for all of them. I don't even know how they even happened because there was no leading up to it. It was just like, hey, you're crying. I don't want you to cry. I don't want you to be hurt. Let's solve this here. My hope is that now fans can move on from this whole situation and stop adding on the hate, stop adding on the criticism, stop adding on the comments and just say, hey, they figured

it out. We can figure it out too. I'll just throw this one more thing. I don't think that, I think that Lauren, Alyssa, Lauren, Allison, and Edwina were always kind of team Maria, always backing her. Medina, somewhere in the middle, and then the three of them. I think the teams kind of stayed place in this situation. And that's all I got to say about that. It did feel like outside of everything else, Leah was the kind of more than Sydney.

Really? You know, Sydney had, I don't think she really... She wanted to stay back. Yeah, she didn't do a lot to help herself or hurt herself. She just kind of stayed quiet. We've commented on Jess. I think Jess was trying to resolve. I don't know necessarily how she was going to get there

because it kept coming out wrong. But I do think Chess was like really hurt and just like really like sad of how she handled the situation. It did feel like Leah, out of everybody else, took the most. criticism from the group and was kind of the target of you caused a lot of the things that ended up being dramatic during the season. You caused these things. And I don't know if Leah expected it.

I don't know if she, but there were some things said to Leah that were very pointed. Like you say you were a woman's woman. You didn't act like it. And then you said these things about somebody else. and Leah said, I did not. And then four women said, no, you did. And she goes, okay, I did. Stop gaslighting me.

And they're like, don't say we're gaslighting. You were saying the truth here. And it did feel like for a while for me. I am glad there was some healing or I'm just glad the thing stopped because it did feel like a while we were going to run off the rails and really kind of like throw a bunch of daggers in Leah and just leave it there. And that felt that's why it was so hard for me to watch. because it was like this isn't this isn't what this is meant for this is a show about love and

relationships you didn't find love or relationships but we damn sure should not crush you in the process and it felt like it was going to be a crushing um not delayed anything to help herself there I don't think she was like explaining herself well or getting out of the situation well by any means but it just kept getting worse and worse and worse until the commercial break and then I think the producers are like that's enough we're done one other thing to mention about lea interesting how the girls seemed to really get angry at her for the whole burning of the date card that she was going to be able to steal somebody's date card they really came at her for that and i don't know i guess i kind of understand i think they i think they just wanted to pile on her and that was the first topic that came up and she was but but like they were like you were crying and la la la la but that the crying was for you that wasn't for us. You were making it seem like you were doing us a favor.

And I'm like, I think you guys are being dramatic now. Yeah, well, I get it. I get it, but also dramatic. You know what I mean? Like, I see where you're coming from. It plays out completely differently if Leah the whole season is like a supportive,

encouraging human to others. I think what they're saying is like, you did this and said you did it for the women. And then you were mean to so many during the season, And those two things don't run in parallel. And so I think it plays out completely different if she's seen differently by the women throughout the season. My name is Ed.

Everyone say hello, Ed. I'm from a very rural background myself. My dad is a farmer. And my mom is a cousin. So, like, it's not like... What do you get when a true crime producer walks into a comedy club? I know it sounds like the start of... a bad joke, but that really was my reality nine years ago.

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What would you do if one bad decision forced you to choose between a maximum security prison or the most brutal boot camp designed to be hell on earth? Unfortunately for Mark Lombardo, this was the choice he faced. He said, you are a number, a New York State number, and we own you. Shock incarceration, also known as boot camps, are short-term, highly regimented correctional programs that mimic military basic training. These programs aim to provide a shock of prison life, emphasizing strict discipline, physical training, hard labor, and rehabilitation programs. Mark had one chance to complete this program and had no idea of the hell awaiting his. the next six months.

The first night was so overwhelming, and you don't know who's next to you. And we didn't know what to expect in the morning. Nobody tells you anything. Listen to shock incarceration on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A foot washed up a shoe with some bones in it. They had no idea who it was. Most everything was burned up pretty good from the fire that not a whole lot was salvageable. These are the coldest of cold cases.

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And you'll meet the team behind the scenes at Othrum, the Houston Lab that takes on the most hopeless cases to finally solve the unsolvable. Listen to America's Crime Lab on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Dr. Joy Harden Bradford. And in session 421 of Therapy for Black Girls, I sit down with Dr. Othia and Billy Shaka to explore how our hair connects to our identity, mental health, and the ways we heal. I think hair is a complex language system, right, in terms of it can tell how old you are, your marital status, where you're from, you're a spiritual belief. But I think with social media, there's like a hyperfixation and observation of our hair, right? That this is sometimes the first thing someone sees when we make a post or a reel is how our hair is styled.

You talk about the important role hairstylists play in our community, the pressure to always look put together, and how breaking up with perfection can actually free Plus, if you're someone who gets anxious about flying, don't miss session 418 with Dr. Angela Neil Barnett, where we dive into managing flight anxiety. Listen to therapy for black girls on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. In conclusion of this whole experience, it just felt like a lot of yelling. It didn't feel like it did much more than. maybe prove that Maria, uh, wasn't the bully that the, like, that the narrative started to

try to play out. And that shows why the confusion was there from Maria and the other women. But these are real humans trying to figure out a really weird environment. And so I just don't think it's ever healthy to come out of the tell all and show more hate to any of them. Because, hey, outside of it was real or not, I'm going to assume it is because we saw. it on television and it was their actions to do it if they can forgive each other we can too we can move on they can move on no more hate out there it really sucks for these people when that happens and it really puts you in a hard place okay so then there was lexie's hot seat jens hot seat basically lexies you know was just her thanking people for being understanding for her stage five

endometriosis and you know like it's just all good and then with jens it was also all good I like Jen's. Jen's a really likable character. If there was a season where there wasn't a lot of other likable characters, I could see her being in contention for The Bachelorette. She and Joey definitely felt like they had something, and she's just kind of adorable and easy to watch. She was the whole season.

She was funny. She was witted or quick-witted. You know, I agree. Many other seasons, she would be the one that we're like, we absolutely can see her doing it. but the season had was stacked full of incredible people and it's what made it so fun. The hot,

these two hot seats made sense of why they're up there. I mean, you know, Maria had a hot seat. Jen and Lexi had a hot seat. Those three makes sense to me. It just, there wasn't much that came out of it.

Yeah, there's not nothing to anything to talk about for you and I. But what did come out of it was the next scene, which was this note card thing that we see from Joey. And I want to comment on this here. I agree with you of what you said at the beginning. I could handle tell-alls if it was half a tell-all and half an episode. Because at this point in time, we kind of move into a more live, interactive experience with The Bachelor and his contestants as the show is going on on a screen that they're watching.

I think that's intriguing to me. I don't mean when we started this podcast today and I said, I hated watching it. I just don't like seeing people yell at each other for 25 minutes. It's not fun for me. I don't know if it's really fun for anybody. I don't know anybody out there that's like, this is the coolest thing ever. Is all these women talking over each other?

I can't understand. Some people love it, Ben. I can't say that some people don't love it because I know that they do. And I can see by the social media feedback that they had fun with it. Okay. I think that for you and I, I do not let, I like,

I throw myself back to being there. Yeah, I don't like it. I think if you've been part of it, You're like, no, thank you. But if you're watching it and the drama really doesn't mean much to you, it's just something that you watch on TV. I think it could be fun. Oh, okay.

Well, we do see this note card situation. What a weird scenario. Like, from all sides, this note card comes in. It's what we have a cliffhanger on the last episode. We get to read the note card. It says, we need to talk. Again, that's never a good sign. Except for, I told you last week, I go, what if they, what did she write this?

And it's really nothing. I'm in. And she says, I miss you. And like, I really hope it's me. Like, I told you that this was a possibility. You did. It was, this is such a moment of play. We're going to call it.

It was a moment of play. Yeah. Because she was missing him. This is my theory. She was missing him. She probably wanted to write him a letter, slip a really nice romantic, something under his door. And then a producer was like, why don't you just talk? But, like, write him a note that says, like, let's talk.

Knowing it would freak Joey the hell out. And it was exactly, it played out perfectly for them. It felt so weird to me. It did. The whole thing, even her sitting down. Weird. Yeah. She's, oh, my God, I'm so sorry.

I felt, I feel so bad that you interpreted it like that. Kelsey. Yeah. You totally, you had to have known. And if you did it, like, Like, hey, it's time to step up a little bit here because the show is only going to get harder these next two weeks. And they're going to try every way possible to get inside Joey's head because he's now the only one they can really get inside the head of like in a healthy way because he's the only one that's not going to leave. And so like protect him a little bit.

Like be one step ahead of the producers here. And she obviously was not in this situation. It was very weird. It did throw him off. I don't. I never was worried about her. going home because I don't think it threw him off enough for that. But I do think he had, his heart was racing. His mind was wandering. His relief when he found out it was nothing.

Yeah. He's like, I've never seen relief like that on the show before. Well, I think it definitely points to who he wants to be within the end. Yeah. Right? Oh, yeah. I mean, I think it's pretty clear at this point. If it's not Kelsey, I think it's shocking. And I think that's why they're messing with us for to next week's episode they're making it seem like he's going to get his heart broken significant like he's going to be ruined to the point that he can't even watch the preview for the next season sitting up there in front of an audience he's going to be so ruined and they make it obvious like that's like it's too obvious for the audience right now that he's picking kelsey that they have to throw us off in some way question for you as a fan does it really matter

if it's obvious for you? No, I agree. Whatever. I don't care. At this point, I just want to have like that whimsical feeling in my chest

when they get engaged. Yeah, I don't care if I know who he's going to be with. I mean, that's the whole point of the show is for them to find love. If he found love

weeks ago, it's cool to see this thing play out the way it does. I get to see their love story play out on television. That's what we watch the show for, I think. So I don't care.

I don't need them to play with me. I don't need it to be a question of my mind. Some seasons, I do believe it's naturally a very, like, confusing time for the lead. And they don't know who they're going to choose necessarily at the end, even at, you know, hometown week and Fantasy Sweet Week. For this season, it's like, cool. We know.

He knows that's his journey. The one person he does not, obviously, continue on with is Rachel. We do have Rachel in, you know, in studio. She's sitting down with Jesse watching her breakup on live. it was obviously emotional it was real it was not um it it felt like the whole time this whole show was in support of joey i mean obviously he's been great to these women and they've been great to him i don't know though if i would say she was shocked i think she was obviously in love with joey i think she knew that Joey would they could do you know great things together i don't know even watching

the episode and seeing kind of her words i don't know if she was ever shocked that it was her to go home yeah i don't think she was either and i know that we all weren't i basically in my head had already eliminated her last week or before which i feel bad saying but we all kind of knew What would you do if one bad decision forced you to choose between a maximum security prison or the most brutal boot camp designed to be hell on earth? Unfortunately for Mark Lombardo, this was the choice he faced. He said, you are a number, a New York state number, and we own you. Shock incarceration, also known as boot camps, are short-term, highly regimented correctional programs that mimic military basic training. These programs aimed to provide a shock of prison life,

emphasizing strict discipline, physical training, hard labor, and rehabilitation programs. Mark had one chance to complete this program and had no idea of the hell awaiting him the next six months. The first night was so overwhelming, and you don't know who's next to you. And we didn't know what to expect in the morning. Nobody tells you anything. Listen to shock incarceration on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get to. your podcast. My name is Ed.

Everyone say, hello, Ed. From a very rural background myself, my dad is a farmer and my mom is a cousin, so like, it's not like... What do you get when a true crime producer walks into a comedy club? I know it sounds like the start of a bad joke, but that really was my reality nine years ago. I just normally do straight stand-up, but this is a bit different. On stage stood a comedian with a story that no one expected to hear.

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What was really sad about this tell-all moment was just how she got through the reception that she got after hometowns and after she got eliminated and all the awful comments. And I, again, like, I do think that a lot of the awful comments were coming from just people really wanting Maria to be in her spot. because why else would people be like saying mean things to her because remember how she also kind of like told Maria off

well she did not actually she didn't tell her off she said why would you do that at the Rose ceremony I think the fans of Maria are the people that were giving her criticism if I was to speak to Rachel it would not be hey Rachel

it was because of you personally it's because you were playing into a narrative that they were hoping was done. So the Maria getting unnecessary and unwarranted hate from these other women was something that the fans of the show this season were very sensitive to because they felt like Maria was getting unwarranted, you know, hate from at least three women. And so when Rachel said this, I think they were saying one more is playing into this and this is unnecessary.

You know, I think if we maybe hindsight a little bit here, what Rachel said to Maria came in a place of high stress. And it also almost to me, I think you could say, was like a very friendly question. Like, Ashley, if you and I were standing up at a rose ceremony and you did that, I would feel totally fine, be like, Ashley, what are you doing?

Stop. Like, because we're close enough for me to be like, hey, check yourself, Ashley. Like, don't do this crazy stuff. One, it's annoying to me. Two, I'm standing up here an hour longer than I wanted to. And three, I'm like already so nervous that I'm going home tonight and you're just delaying it. So stop doing whatever it is you're doing. I could say that to you because we were close enough for me to say it.

I wonder, and we never really saw. relationship, you know, in detail throughout the season, I wonder if maybe it came from a place of comfort for Rachel to be like, hey, Maria, I like, we're friends. Stop doing this. I don't know. I don't think they were there. I don't think it was a comfort thing. You think she was just more upset? Well, that's why I think she got the criticism she did is because Maria fans are very sensitive to Maria being criticized and hated on anymore. And so Rachel kind of took that blow. But I don't think it's a hit on Rachel. I don't think people are like, I don't like Rachel. I don't know. I mean, there's plenty of comments. There's so many comments.

I remember, like, girls telling me how much hate she was getting. But also I, but, you know, there was, I don't want to disregard all the comments that she said were racism based. So, that's absolutely tragic and disgusting as well. I guess I haven't seen any of those, but that's like, it's just weird. I mean, my explanation here is all out of like, I'm confused on how that could come out towards Rachel because of this one situation. It doesn't make any sense to me. Like she's been amazing. To me, yeah.

She just did nothing wrong the entire season. Well, I'll stand on that out. She's always likable. Well, you know what I mean. She's always likable. She's always likable. I'll stand on that. I'll say she was likable.

Any criticism she's getting is so confusing to me. I can understand a little bit of, you know, the three women that really made Maria's road hard. I can see where maybe they get the jabs and all that and people would be upset with them. The Rachel thing's, like, so far gone for me. I don't get it. And now I hope after a tell all of them can move on without the criticism. And people can just start the love on them. Like, if you don't like them, don't follow them.

That's, it's pretty easy. I also blame the robots. I think there's a lot of really mean robots out there that are just like made to make people feel worse about themselves. That's what I tell myself when I get in comments. I was like, I'm pretty sure the robots aren't that creative with their, dang. Well, don't ruin it.

Don't ruin that. for me. Okay, so let's go into predictions. Well, I guess there's no predict. Okay. Yes, predictions. This is how we'll wrap up this episode. What do you think is happening at the altar now that we're down to this actual moment? Absolutely nothing. I think Daisy, I believe that Daisy knows who it is in the end based on her context clues. And she and Joey have this beautiful moment where she's like, I love you in any other world. We could be together. And Joey says, I agree. I love you too. Or I'm falling in love with you. I don't know if he actually says the words I love you. I don't know if he's that dumb to do what I did. I think he's smarter than me. And then they leave. And I think it's really sad.

And then Kelsey comes up and it's happily ever after. That's my thought. However, this teaser makes it feel so different. So now I'm questioning it. There's a lot of things that they've made in the teaser where it looks like he's walking away, getting into the car alone. That could be totally just going from the hotel to the altar alone, you know? There's zero chance in my mind for anybody listening. There's zero chance in my mind that Joey has walked away from the show alone. There's no way, no how, would not make sense. And if he did, this would be like three episodes left because there's going to be a lot of things

to have to happen in order for that to occur. There's no way he walks away from the show alone. I do believe it's going to be a very emotional final couple episodes. Final episode. Final episode, I guess, yeah. Well, I guess we do have a tell-all or a... It's like a three-hour episode. Goodness gracious, huh?

I don't know. I can deal with a three-hour for this. This is going to be good. Yeah, it's going to be good. But that's my theory is this is being played up to be something. It's not. My also point to this is no matter what now happens in the end, Unless somehow he does end up alone, this has happened before.

Like, there's no scenario that can play out here that, like, would be revolutionary. We've seen this stuff before, right? We've seen somebody leave in the last week. No, I, the, what would be revolutionary? I think would be if both girls dumped him. Yeah, that's what I said, unless he ends up alone. Which I, somebody's left alone. That was Brad.

Brad left alone because he decided to choose no one. Yeah. Which is honestly the craziest shit I've ever heard my life. He couldn't even pull a Wobblo and was like I'd like to date. Oh, it's so good. He didn't even want to date anyone. It's so wild. He's like, I don't like any of you.

I went to this whole thing and I did it and this sucked the whole time because I wasn't into any of you. But that's my point. Unless he does end up alone, there's nothing that could play out here. that would be revolutionary. Yeah, okay. So I don't think he's going to end up alone. I think he's going to end up with Kelsey.

I don't know whether or not it's going to be one of those things that we have to see him, like, do off camera, though. Because that's what it's alluding to, to being, like, one of those situations where, like, the last hour is, like, how they got, how they made things work in the real world. Yeah. I don't know if that's, like, my official theory, but, like, that's, like, that's. if I had to, like, put together the pieces from what they're giving us. It seems like he's going to walk away from the altar, like, going after somebody in real life. Hmm. I mean, that's always sweet.

Yeah. Shose he cares. I don't know. Okay. Final thoughts. Could go without the screaming. Could go without the arguing. Could go without the fighting.

I do believe we got some clarity on some situations that existed this season. But I also believe that it was a confusing. a path to getting there because half the time I couldn't understand anybody and what they were saying. Next episode we are excited for. We will be here breaking it down.

Then we'll start bringing on some of the guests from this season, which is super exciting for us because it was a very popular season. Kudos to Joey because I do think something that showed up here was when he was in front of the women. The women are very supportive of him.

They really liked him. They all had very good things to say about him. That's not easy. to do and something we have not seen in a long time. Yeah, they really wished him well. Yeah, that's great. They were like, do you have a cousin? Do you have like a secret long-loss brother?

Yeah, it's really sweet. And I do believe we have not seen that kind of dynamic amongst the lead. Since you, Ben. Since me, which was so long ago. No, I mean, I think he he did some things

that were really incredible. He was really attuned. A lot of the women said he made them feel heard. I think all those things are great. And so we wish him the best. We wish these ladies the best. We wish that they have a lot of fun with this next chapter of their experience on the show. And we'll be excited for next week. So until next week, I've been Ben. I've been Ashley. Bye guys. Follow the Ben and Ashley I, almost famous podcasts on IHeartRadio or subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts. Start with a quick puzzle. The answer is Ken Jennings' appearance on The Puzzler with A.J. Jacobs.

The question is, what is the most entertaining listening experience in podcast land? Jeopardy-truthers believe in... I guess they would be Kenspiracy theorists. That's right. They give you the answers and you still blew it. The Puzzler. Listen on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I was diagnosed with cancer on Friday and cancer-free the next Friday.

No chemo, no radiation, none of that. On a recent episode of Culture Raises Us podcast, I sat down with Warren Campbell, Grammy-winning producer, pastor, and music executive to talk about the beats, the business, and the legacy behind some of the biggest names in gospel, R&B, and hip-hop. Professionally, I started at Death World Records.

From Mary Mary to Jennifer Hudson, we get into the soul of the music and the purpose that drives it. Listen to Culture Raises Us on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Why are TSA rules so confusing? You got a hood of you on take it all! I'm Manny.

I'm Noah. This is Devin. And we're best friends and journalists with a new podcast called No Such Thing, where we get to the bottom of questions like that. Why are you screaming at me? I can't expect what to do. Now, if the rule was the same, go off on me. I deserve it.

You know, lock him up. Listen to No Such Thing on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Such thing. Hi, my name is Enya Humanzor. And I'm Drew Phillips. And we run a podcast called Emergency Intercom. If you're a crime junkie and you love crimes, we're not the podcast for you.

But if you have unmedicated ADHD... Oh my God, perfect. And want to hear people with mental illness, psycho babble. Yes, yes. Then Emergency Intercom is the podcast for you. Open your free IHeart Radio app. Search Emergency. And listen now.

This is an IHeart podcast.