The Ben and Ashley I Almost Famous Podcast - Breaking News: The conversation continues with Dr. Hillary Goldsher

Episode Date: October 4, 2026

This episode discusses sexual violence, which may be difficult or triggering for some listeners. If you or someone you know has experienced sexual violence, support is available through the RAINN National Sexual Assault Hotline at 800-656-HOPE (4673) or rainn.org.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Concerned about your gambling or that of someone close to you, visit connectsonterio. Lisa, tell them about our new show. We have a new podcast. It's called Don't Lie to Me. I'm Lexi Youanu. We're two best friends, 22 years apart, but so close at heart. And I'm Lisa Di Giulio, the old one, which means we have wildly different references, occasionally different opinions. And at this point in my 50s, I've lived it all.

Now in my 30s, being the founder of new shoes, good taste is my business. Listen on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Melissa Jeltson, host of the What Happened to Her Podcast. We're kicking off the season with the Sandra Birchmore story, a case the police rode off as a suicide in a snowstorm. Her family never bought it, and the man they suspected wore a badge. You never know who that devil is because he's wearing in disguise. Sometimes it's a police uniform. And you can get access to all episodes 100% ad-free.

with an Iheart True Crime Plus subscription exclusively on Apple Podcasts, available only to Iheart True Crime Plus subscribers. So don't wait. Head to Apple Podcasts, search for IHeart True Crime Plus, and subscribe today. I'm Lacey Mosley, author, actor, stand-up comedian, creator, and host of Scam Goddess Podcast. The True Crime Comedy Podcasts all about robbery, fraud, and those who practice it. Each week, I bring on an amazing guest. Ooh, I scammed them.

What? I can talk to you for an hour. You're a generational yapper like me. That's why I had to make yapping a job. And now you can catch full episodes of my show on YouTube. Start listening to Scam Goddess on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Hi, this is Kylie Breakman. Angel Geratana.

Jeremy Colhain. Patrick McDonald. And we're the hosts of the Artists on Artists on Artists on Artists Podcast. The Improvised Character Comedy Podcast where each week a new panel of artists discuss their craft. Join us for a panel of Eurovision participants. And we do a little Halloween sometimes. Does the Pope dress up? He winks on Halloween.

It's right up next to the microphone. I hear you can almost hear the eyelashes hit each other. You never seen Italy so quiet as when the Pope gets up to wink on Halloween. Listen to Artists on Artists on Artists every Thursday on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The following episode will be discussing themes of sexual assault. If you or anyone you know is a victim of sexual assault or abuse, call Raines Sexual Assault Hotline at 1-800-656-56-hope. That's 1-800-656-4673. Hi, you guys.

So welcome back to another episode of Dirty Rush. I am Jen Fessler, joined by Elisa Donovan. Hello, Ms. Donovan. Hi, Jen. So today's Dirty Rush is not sort of our typical episode. usually when we are recording dirty rush pods they are really fun oftentimes light not always not always we hit some there are some heavy subjects we discuss we discuss a lot about obviously sororities Greek life sororities and fraternities and everything that sort of comes along with that but today is a different kind of episode and one that we feel like is is really important and we want to talk about some of something that's going on in the news that I think probably most of our listeners already know about.

We've been following the very disturbing allegations surrounding the Cornell 7 and are bringing on some experts today to get more information about the case. And Lisa, you and I spoke before filming and I was telling you that I am just really trying to take all of this in and hear all the different sides. My instincts, like I think most humans, my instincts are to jump and figure out what's going on sometimes before I've gotten all of the information, especially when it comes to a case that hits hard like this one does. But I'm really glad that we're going to have some experts on who can tell us, you know,

what, too, who can interpret all of the information for us? You know, this is, this is a really, I have extraordinarily strong feelings about this. And I think, but to your point, these are allegations, right? But, you know, let's get real here. No one, this is not, I think what this has been triggering for every female that I know, I can just say that out loud and unequivocally. And, you know, I think what is so upsetting is that this also does not seem to be an outlier. Because the outcry of outrage about this has also included a plethora of women speaking out and saying that this has happened to them and that this type of rape and assault has been happening on campuses for decades at least.

and I don't know how to metabolize that. You know, already knowing that the large majority of women that I know, myself included, have been victims of sexual assault or rape, and I'm not even talking about that. I'm saying that this particular gang rape at a college fraternity has been happening for decades. And I just, I don't know how to not be utterly overwhelmed by that. Yes. I, yes, I also have been a victim of sexual assault. That's for another episode. And I definitely get triggered, just even hearing about or talking about sexual assault. I think what upsets me so much is that I feel like this is what women have to do all the time.

They just have to have 100% proof. Let me show you. all the ways in which these horrible things happen to me. And what is always left behind is that no one, when you are the victim of sexual assault, you do not want to talk about it. You do not want to be reminded of it. You already have enough shame and guilt about it, which is just, it's just baked in to the bread. So we're going to now go into the facts. Dr. Hilary Goldscher, welcome.

Welcome to During Rush. It's so nice to have an expert here. help guide us a little bit. Yeah. Thank you. So we're just going to jump right in. And when you hear that a large group of young men were aware of disturbing conversations and behavior and no one spoke up, what goes through your mind as a psychologist? Is that normal? Is that what happens? So many things go through my mind. And I think we have to think of this through a number of lenses because it's so complex. And, you know, when you ask the question,

is this what happens? None of us want the answer to be yes. And I hope the answer, generally speaking, is no. But does it bring our attention to a phenomenon that happens with kids whose brains are underdeveloped? This is not an excuse. It is not a justification. I'm just explaining a phenomenon

so that we can become more aware of it and intervene as a society and particularly as parents. and the phenomenon to which I'm alluding, I mean, this is a, the clinical term is called pluralistic silence, pluralistic silence, which is a dynamic in a group setting where there is an assumption that everyone else thinks the thing is okay. And each individual may be contemplating the idea that it's not okay, but because they deeply believe because of everybody else's silence that everybody else thinks it's okay,

nobody says anything. So it's like a tacit nonverbal agreement to not intervene. And that is a group dynamic. And, you know, the brain doesn't fully develop until 25. And so are people more susceptible to that dynamic under 25? Sure. But we don't stop there. I want to make sure that everyone listening hears my messaging. This is just an exploration of the dynamics. It is is not an excuse or just being them. And I think as parents and as a society, one thing we have to take seriously from this set of events is that our goal as parents isn't to just have our kid

not be one of the seven. It's to have our kid not be one of the 50s. And maybe some parents are having discussions about consent. And clearly they need to have more of them at a younger age and more regularly, but we need to be having discussions about what does it look like when you're a witness to something wrong and how do you show up under those extremely complicated circumstances? Is there a difference psychologically between actively participating in harmful behavior and

witnessing it but choosing not to intervene? Sure. I mean, the criminal acts that allegedly occurs. are illegal, unethical, reprehensible. And so to cross the line into that kind of behavior feels definitionally different than being a witness. And I'm hesitating even as I said it because they're both on the spectrum of really, really bad.

But to witness oneself engaging in the violation of a woman in that position. in that position is a whole other level of moral violation that I think is appropriate to separate out. Having said that, I don't want to remotely mitigate the responsibility of being a witness to this information and not intervening in real time or thereafter. There are a number of opportunities for any one of the 50 plus kids that were associated with this information, there were a number of opportunities that someone could have intervened, both in real time or afterwards, and it didn't happen over and over again. Dr. Goldscher, so I'm wondering one of these 50 boys in an ideal world, maybe he wasn't there,

he heard in the rumor mill. what should he have done after just hearing it? I'm so glad you're asking this question because we have to get practical and tactical. We can speak like in a lofty manner to our kids. Like you should step in and do the right thing. Well, what does that mean when you're a 17-year-old kid who's invested in being liked by your frat brothers? Right? I mean, that's real.

We have to think in the mindset and the language of our kids who are confronting these things. We might like them to be able to think at a higher level of like, what do I care about whether or not I'm ostracized? I need to stand up for what's right. And we want to encourage that. But we need to give them like a runway and a pathway of communication when they're witness or have knowledge to things like this. And so a number of ways to think about it. There is always an opportunity to report anonymously, always. And if one feels threatened, nervous, fearful of reporting this kind of possible potential behavior and being excluded or ostracized, I would rather have the information shared either with one's parents or a trusted other adult who can report it to the appropriate authorities anonymously, for example.

And so that is, and folks listening might sort of be like, that's high. and not embodying the level of, you know, sort of confidence and resilience that we'd want to see in our kids, true. But given the clear messaging that this is a big ask, given what data that's coming out, we need to give a path that kids find accessible. And what would you tell specifically to a kid,

your kid, let's say, hypothetically, who heard a rumor that there was a girl in the first, frat house and he's sure they all heard it in different ways who had a three-way had another three-way maybe didn't wasn't you know it wasn't conveyed to this particular kid that she was not um that she was uh not consenting what would you suggest a boy did in that situation so he hears that there was three kids there were six kids what he hears from his buddy is that you know she was into it. What does he do then? Yeah. I mean, it's it, it's really complicated because that set of circumstances you are describing, it's sort of a gray area in terms of whether something

unethical, illegal, non-consensual happened. I would ask parents and kids that are listening because this arena is so sensitive that when we hear material, that touch this part of our world and our society that we're getting active about it. I'm talking ideal. I'm talking aspirational. I'm sure there might be lots of folks who sort of say, like, well, that's the data. What's the kids supposed to do? It's not clear if something, quote, bad happen. But because this is such a sensitive topic and it is very difficult for victims to curate a voice, I would still recommend that it is shared with a trusted adult so that more information can be gathered in an anonymous fashion so that if there's something

there, it can be uncovered. Can we not agree that a young woman with still not a fully formed brain in a situation in a sexual drug-fueled situation with six boys, can we all agree that that is not an okay situation? I appreciate that we're trying to be very diplomatic here, but I'm sorry, that is putting onus on this woman for her, this young woman, to be able to say, oh, no, okay, now I don't, I mean, I think we've gone off the rails.

Yes, I don't think it's okay either. Any young boy that sees that should know or hears that, his red flags should be going up and saying, wait a second. just you, my one guy, my friend's saying, no, she really wants it. Really? Yeah. I'm saying that the kid that the,

we're trying to get the 50 kids to own this, not just the kids that were there, not just the friends of the kids that were there. We're trying to get the 50 kids who don't always get the direct information. As a matter of fact, probably get a lot of times very warped information. Yes.

And yes, we hope that that kid has enough wherewithal to say, huh, seven boys, one girl, drugs, sex, something doesn't sound right here. But I guess I'm trying to be practical about it. As am I. And Lisa, your emotional reaction is more than appropriate. I can't even think of the right. Of course. I mean, it is, as the three of us are sitting here, that fact pattern is insane.

And the idea that there's some mitigating circumstance feels like an incredulous concept, right? And that is not what we're promoting here. But Jennifer, you're talking about if we're getting in the minds of the 50, this is a practical, hopefully accessible way to think of it, which is, okay, you don't know what you don't know. but if this is the category of material that you are hearing, given this event that we're talking about, from this point forward, this is the conversation parents should be having with our kids. This thing happened on our collective watch as a society. So now the paradigm shifts. Anything under the realm of this data, this set of data, it needs to be told to a trusted other, period.

And there's nothing else for you to do thereafter. We don't need our 17-year-olds to be detectives to figure out what's going on, right? That's not what we're talking about, but having the wherewithal, the courage, the instruction from parents that, like, this is the ask. This is what you must do given what has unfolded. And I imagine most of us as parents have had a version of these conversations with our kids and our boys in particular, but not exactly this, not quite this. And maybe some have, and with the intensity and pointedness that it needs to be conveyed.

But now we have no excuse, right? It needs to be discussed in this manner. And I agree. The threshold now is anything in that realm where a female is in a compromised position, it needs to be discussed with a trusted other, period. The Hard Rock Beck Casino app is here, Ontario. And with a name like Hard Rock, you know you're in for an experience you can only get here. Exclusive games and exclusive progressive jackpot and the kind of trust and security you can only get with Hard Rock.

And now you can enjoy the things you can only get here anywhere. Hard Rock Bed is here, Ontario. Download the app. Roll with us. Must be 19 years of age or older to play. Ontario only. Please play responsibly. Concerned about your gambling or that of someone close to you, visit connectsonterio.ca. I'm Melissa Jeltson, host of the What Happened to Her podcast. We're kicking off the season with the Sandra Birchmore story, a case the police rode off as a suicide in a snowstorm.

Her family never bought it, and the man they suspected wore a badge. You never know who that devil is because he's wearing in disguise. Sometimes it's a police uniform. And you can get access to all episodes 100% ad-free with an IHeart True Crime Plus subscription, exclusively on Apple Podcasts, available only to IHeart True Crime Plus subscribers. So don't wait, head to Apple Podcasts, search for iHeart True Crime Plus, and subscribe today. Lisa, we should tell them about our new show. Oh my God, Lexi, we have a new podcast.

It's called Don't Lie to Me. I'm Lexi Yuwano. We're two best friends, 22 years apart, but so close at heart. And I'm Lisa Di Giulio, the old one, which means we have wildly different references, occasionally different opinions, and at this point in my 50s, I've lived it all. I'm not going to get anywhere. You're fighting. That is wild. I learned that about you today. Now in my 30s, being the founder of new shoes, good taste is my business. And I've always got something to say.

If men were just honest about this, there would be so much more peace in the world. We're going to talk about dating, relationships, beauty, getting older, and a little wiser. We're best friends, but we don't always agree. Because you told us how accommodating you are. Obviously, I would do what I think I could do to fight the fight, but there's just a little bit. There's only so much fight I can fight. Don't lie to me. Don't lie to me.

Don't lie to me. Don't lie to me. Don't lie to me. Liar. Listen on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. I don't really care. Hi, this is Kylie Breakman. Angel Geratana.

Jeremy Colhain. Patrick McDonald. And we're the hosts of the Artists on Artists on Artists on Artists Podcast. The Improvised Character Comedy Podcast where each week a new panel of artists discuss their craft. Join us for a panel of wellness influencers. What I try to do is faux journal. I don't know. Have you guys heard of faux journaling?

Yeah, it's reading. It's called reading. So we don't like to use that word anymore. Okay. A panel of New Yorker cartoonists. Have you guys done Terry Gross's Peloton class? No! I've been dying too.

I'm so sorry. I'm seeing a reading of Sadako and the Thousand Paper Cranes by Audra McDonald's at the Wonderland Bookstore. That's crazy. I went to the Wonderland Bookstore. yesterday and I heard Nora Jones do a reading of Zero Dark 30. No way. You have to come to the last bookstore though. Kim Cottrell is reading the guitar tabs of yesterday.

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I'm Lacey Mosley, author, actor, stand-up comedian, creator, and host of Scam Goddess Podcasts. The True Crime Comedy Podcasts all about robbery, fraud, and those who practice it. Each week I bring on incredible guests like Conan O'Brien, Iowa Debris, Lamorne Morris, and Nicole Byer. Ooh, I scammed them. What? I can talk to you for a hour. You're a generational yapper like me. That's why I had to make yankers.

And the scams run the gamut. I'm talking about scams from the 1800s all the way up to today. I also warn you and keep you safe against scammers. Call your grandparents. Tell your parents to stop clicking on links, please. And now you can catch full episodes of my show on YouTube. If there's a scam, I'm here to protect you. And I'm also here to laugh with you.

So if you like fun, if you like comedy, and you like learning and protecting yourself from criminals, Start listening to Scam Goddess on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. So can you just talk about why someone like Jane Doe may stay silent about a traumatic experience for years? And then what do you think eventually made her feel ready to speak about it? I'm pausing because there's so much emotion involved in the trajectory. of a victim of this kind of horrific crime. And I want to get my whole thought out

because if what I'm about to say is taken in pieces, it could be out of context. But because of the data that appears to be forthcoming, which is that maybe there was some part of this that was consensual, and I say this with a big question mark, you've both already alluded to the other factors, which is she's a single person woman with a bunch of men and there's alcohol and maybe drugs involved. But if it is possibly true that there was a piece of this that was consensual,

oftentimes for victims, if it began with one expectation and then evolves or devolves into something else, a rape, a gang rape, there's great guilt and shame that somehow they co-created it. because there was consent to some piece of it. And I want to make it really clear to listeners that that is just a falsehood. A woman can say yes to one thing and no to another. And I imagine that that piece of it, if it's true, interrupted her ability to report, feeling like she had some responsibility. And I imagine, sadly, unfortunately, devastatingly, that when we don't deal with intense trauma,

and when I say deal with, I mean both spiritually, therapeutically, through the law, we get symptoms. We are unwell. And if she was unable to seek the right counsel, both legally and psychologically for a period of time, due to shame. At some point, the weight of it probably became so overwhelming that she felt compelled to speak. Maybe she shared it with trusted others who supported her in that pursuit. But oftentimes, certainly not always, but oftentimes it does take a victim a while because of the shroud of shame. And that over time, the analysis of what's worse,

staying silent or coming forward and we're in the land of bad choices. staying silent are going forward. Look at what she's going through. The level of judgment and criticism and her story is wildly unacceptable, but you're in the land of bad choices. And finally, she was ready, hopefully with the right support to make this choice in her journey to healing and wellness. I think that Dr. Gulture, I want you to repeat what you just said for our listeners

who, again, like this is a podcast about sororities. And I think it's really what you said is particularly poignant that given giving consent to one thing doesn't mean giving consent to all things. And I think that's a really good message and takeaway for, you know, a lot of the girls that are listening here. And I hope that you guys take that in. Yes. And to get really concrete about it and maybe in some uncomfortable material, but we need to be talking about this more. than not. And so you can find yourself in a scenario where you said yes to something and then you realize it doesn't feel good or the next step doesn't feel good. You have the right to then say no

emphatically in any way that you can. And I want to empower women with this concept that just because you said yes to something doesn't mean you've lost the right to then say no. And I'm It can feel awkward. It can feel embarrassing. It can make the other person or persons involved angry, I suppose, right? And so it's putting yourself on the line emotionally and in other ways to come forward and say, I know I said yes, but now I'm saying no. But those words can be said if you can curate them.

And having said that, I don't want anyone listening who has been in that circumstance and was unacconcant. and was unable to cultivate those words internally and say them out loud, to not feel shame. When we are in compromised positions and feel overwhelmed or shut down due to trauma, sometimes we cannot eke out the words to protect ourselves in the moment. I just remember for myself being, not just in college, but being in situations that once I was in it, I was in it. Yeah. I'm not, I'm not saying that each of those cases was assault. Yes. I'm not saying that, but I'm just saying having, you know, now I'm a 58 year old woman as a 17 to whatever age, I don't know, 30 year old or whatever, having the wherewithal to say, huh, you know, I'm here. I put myself here. I wanted to be here. Now I don't really anymore. As I personally feel like I probably. didn't have the strain to do that back in the day.

And then we take the repercussions of that with us as we grow up. That's right. And then that becomes the norm, that becomes holding more shame, that becomes maybe we make decisions that we don't really want to be making. It sets us off in the wrong direction. And I think there has been such an outcry about this. And it's been so triggering for every woman, actually, that I know. I said this before and I will say it again.

And like being kept up at night about it. Yes. Yes. It is getting to an unbelievable pain point of our culture on every front. And we're talking about another piece of this, which is exactly what you were saying, Jennifer, it is an enormous ask for a teenage girl to be in the kind of circumstance that we're talking about. 20-something year old girl. That's right.

You know. Or any woman really. Yeah. Right. Yeah. To have the wherewithal, as you said, to say, wait a minute, I changed my mind or wait a minute, I was okay with what was happening before. I'm not now. It's an enormous ask.

and it is at least a conversation we need to be having more amongst mothers and daughters, amongst friends, amongst sorority sisters, with therapists and their clients, etc. What gets in the way of us being able to say the thing and can we practice it? And then how do we process and deal with it if we don't? That it isn't through the lens of shame, that it isn't through the lens of self-criticism and judgment, that we recognize this as a very, very fraught paradigm. There's a lot of pressure on women in this paradigm to show up and take control of the situation to protect themselves.

So it needs to be thought about through both lenses, right? We need to help our young boys and our young men and our men making sure that they're checking and double checking and double checking and being cognizant of not just words, but energy and checking in. And we need to have more conversations with our young girls about their right to change their minds and how to process it when they miss it when they miss it. Because we're not talking about dichotomists.

We don't want to frame this as good, bad, right, wrong. You either presented yourself or you didn't. That's not the conversation we're having here. We're offering this as an option. We're recognizing how hard it is. and we need to band together to keep talking about how do we help women and young women show up in these arenas in ways that are self-advocating or to help them when they can't find their words. I mean, we may not be having the conversation of, you shouldn't have, you should have, but that is the conversation that's happening around us. And I, you're surprised by, because Lisa and I talking about this as well, I'm seeing a lot on social media.

and I would have thought it would have all gone one way. It's not. It's people are deep in the fence of these boys as well. Are you surprised by that? Yes and no. I'm painfully aware of the framing of women in these circumstances and young women in these circumstances, although for it to occur, the it being criticism and judgment of this young girl to be occurring. and sort of this like mass, like mass sort of communication and dialogue around it, it feels confronting, certainly. But I'm not entirely surprised by it. And I like to think that there are a number of dynamics going on that contribute to it.

You know, some of it is rooted in a misogynistic old. Yes. Isn't that what it is? I mean, how many times have we heard this? I can name it every is Stanford, the swimmer, the North Carolina case in Arizona. Like, this just goes on and on and on. One of the things I think that is so deeply upsetting and that I have a really hard time metabolizing as a mother of a 14-year-old girl is this is not, this did not happen in a silo. This is not an outlier.

This has happened multiple times in, multiple different environments and campuses and fraternities. We have a systemic problem. And I am an idealist at heart, and I have to tell you, this has made me, I'm becoming fatalistic and feeling helpless, you know, and that's the last thing that I ever, ever want to feel, and quite honestly, ever do feel. But I'm having a really hard time right now with this. and how do I talk to my, how do I talk to my daughter instead of this, you know, to get back to what you said, which I think is important, this difference between we're always teaching our girls how to protect yourself, get a pepper spray, don't walk home alone, to make sure you tell a friend. I, that baffles me that that has been normalized as opposed to teaching boys how to behave properly and to respect women. But what you had said about, you know, more teaching our girls how to speak up for themselves

and how to be, as opposed to like protect and defend themselves. Yes. If we kind of can have, teach them to have a voice beforehand, maybe that can kind of lead us more in the right direction. And that it becomes more thematic. Moms are talking to daughters. friends are talking to friends about it, right? It becomes more part of the culture.

Like, what would you say? What would you do? How would we show up in this moment? Let's practice that it becomes part of how, unfortunately, but how young women conceptualize part of how they move through the world, which isn't just pepper spray and walking home in groups, but how do I use my voice? What would that look like?

What would it feel like? And how do we make this part of the conversation? young women and as mothers and, you know, mentors that are guiding them. And you're right, we can't have that part of the conversation without having the other part of the conversation, which is how do we have deeper dives into conversations with our young boys? And it's been interesting, one of my areas, especially as a psychologist, is parenting. I work with parents of kiddos that have stuff going on, right? And well-meaning, amazing, well-intentioned parents through this occurrence of boys have recognized that like,

I don't think I went deep enough. I think I've been talking to my boys about not being one of the seven, not really about not being one of the 50. And I'm not sure that I've gone deep enough in terms of, well, literally what do I do in that moment? And here's how I would like you to talk to women. Here are the things I want you to ask them. Here are the signs I want you to look for to know to back off, to know to step back, to

know to pause, to know to take a break. I think many, many people have not had extensive conversations with their sons in that regard, not because they're not amazing great parents, but because this issue is so fraught, it's so upsetting. And I think we're having, to your point, at least in many ways we knew this, in many ways we don't take it in or the knowledge and understanding of it doesn't stick with us, whatever it is. But this is certainly another version of a wake-up call for us to come back together and think about how do we address this. This is going to be a multi-layered problem approach, right?

It's systemic and it has to come through the curation of discussions with our young men and women. The Hard Rock Beck Casino app is here, Ontario. With exclusive games like Hard Rock and Reel, Hard Rock Collectum and Hard Rock Gold Blitz. Plus, over 3,000 more favorites, like cash eruption and 88 fortunes, all with safe, secure, and fast payouts. The Hard Rock Beck Casino app is here, Ontario. Roll with us. Must be 19 years of age or older to play. Ontario only.

Please play responsibly. Concerned about your gambling or that of someone close to you, visit connectsonterio.ca. I'm Melissa Jeltson, host of the What Happened to Her podcast. We're kicking off the season with the Sandra Birchmore story, a case the police rode off as a suicide in a snowstorm. Her family never bought it, and the man they suspected wore a badge. You never know who that devil is because he's wearing in disguise. Sometimes it's a police uniform.

And you can get access to all episodes 100% ad-free with an IHeart True Crime Plus subscription exclusively on Apple Podcasts, available only to IHeart True Crime Plus subscribers. So don't wait, head to Apple Podcasts, search for iHeart True Crime Plus, and subscribe today. Lisa? We should tell them about our new show. Oh my God, Lexi. We have a new podcast.

It's called Don't Lie to Me. I'm Lexi Yuanyu. We're two best friends, 22 years apart, but so close at heart. And I'm Lisa Di Giulio, the old one, which means we have wildly different references, occasionally different opinions, and at this point in my 50s, I've lived it all. I'm not going to get anywhere. You're fighting. That is wild. I learned that about you today. Now in my 30s, being the founder of new shoes, good taste is my business. And I've always got something to say.

If men were just honest about this, there would be so much more peace in the world. We're going to talk about dating, relationships, beauty, getting older, and a little wiser. We're best friends, but we don't always agree. Because you told us how accommodating you are. Obviously, I would do what I think I could do to fight the fight, but there's just a good. There's only so much fight I can fight. Don't lie to me. Don't lie to me.

Don't lie to me. Don't lie to me. Don't lie to me. Liar. Listen on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. I don't really care. I'm Lacey Mosley, author, actor, stand-up comedian, creator, and host of Scam Goddess Podcast. The True Crime Comedy Podcasts all about robbery, fraud, and those who practice it.

Each week I bring on incredible guests like Conan O'Brien. with Debris, Lamorne Morris, and Nicole Beyer. Ooh, I scammed them. What? I can talk to you for an hour. You're a generational yapper like me. That's why I had to make yapping a job. And the scams run the gamut.

I'm talking about scams from the 1800s all the way up to today. I also warn you and keep you safe against scammers. Call your grandparents. Tell your parents to stop clicking on links, please. And now you can catch full episodes of my show on YouTube. If there's a scam, I'm here to protect you.

And I'm also here to laugh with you. So if you like fun, if you like comedy, and you like learning and protecting yourself from criminals, start listening to Scam Goddess on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Scam Goddess! Hi, this is Kylie Brakeman. Angel Geratana. Jeremy Colhain. Patrick McDonald.

And we're the hosts of the Artists on Artists on Artists on Artists Podcast. The Improvised Character Comedy Podcast where each week a new panel of artists discuss their Join us for a panel of wellness influencers. What I try to do is faux journal. I don't know. Have you guys heard of faux journaling? Yeah, it's reading. It's called reading. So you're, so we don't like to use that word anymore. Okay. A panel of New Yorker cartoonists.

Have you guys done Terry Gross's Peloton class? No! I've been dying too. I'm so sorry. I'm seeing a reading of Sadako and the thousand paper cranes by Audra McDonald's at the Wonderland Bookstore on 14. That's crazy. I went to the Wonderland Booker. Well, yesterday, and I heard Nora Jones do a reading of Zero Dark 30. No way. You have to come to the last bookstore, though.

Kim Cottrell is reading the guitar tabs of yesterday. A panel of Eurovision participants. And we do a little Halloween sometimes. Does the Pope dress up? He winks on Halloween. It's right up next to the microphone. I hear you can almost hear the eyelashes hit each other. You never seen Italy so quiet as when the Pope gets up to wink on Halloween.

Listen to artists on artists on artists on artists on artists on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Can I ask you something, doctor, I want to know specifically. So now we're talking to our daughters and we're telling them, we're empowering them, giving them information like just because you consented to one thing doesn't mean that that consent lasts throughout the night, all of that. but also talking to them practically like go home in a group don't drink too much are we almost embedding them this sort of shame right then they go and they drink too much do i say that to my son i actually do i actually i actually do say that to my son you know but i've always said that to both of them but i guess i'm just wondering like how do you get this message across to your daughter do you give her the practical advice of don't go with boy a boy alone to his frat house

don't drink too much without sort of then almost shaming them when they do. Yeah. It's such a good question. And one of my favorite sayings is two things are true. And I use this endlessly with clients and my own children, which is two things are true. The first thing that's true is I don't want you to drink a bunch. I don't want you to walk home alone at night. I really prefer that you don't go to a fraternity house by yourself.

But the other thing that's true is that you might. might, right? Because you're young, you might get caught up, maybe a decision that you make one night for whatever sets of reasons. And if we're talking about the second possibility, here's what I want you to know. So that you're like, you're very clear. I want to be very clear with you, my love. Like, I don't think you should. But I also know what it's like to be young and to be caught up and to be impulsive. And so I also want to talk about, well, what happens if you do? Yeah, I love that. I actually think that's so, that's really, really helpful. I know women as well as, you know, young women, but their mothers listen. So I think that is just great practical advice.

And so you're getting into the second part of the conversation, be practical. Well, what happens if you do? What happens if you find yourself in a situation where you feel now obligated to perform sexually? what are you doing, right? What happens if you get there and you realize, oh, now I'm scared. What are you doing? Who are you calling? Who are you talking to? So to really try to problem solve and parents who are listening might sort of like,

isn't that encouraging them to do that or giving them resources to, you know, make their plight if they find themselves in those moments easier? It doesn't really work like that. You know, we're explicit about like, here are two truths, right? and I am holding them and that makes it complicated, but that I'm not backing away from the complication of this discussion. I have a question that's probably not going to be very welcome on this podcast, but I have to ask it.

When you look at a case like this, what does it tell you about the power of fraternity culture and group mentality specifically among young men? And, you know, many people believe that fraternities should be banned all together. So what's your take on all of that? Yeah, I mean, well, there's, you know, the notion I was talking about at the top of our discussion, pluralistic silence, I didn't make that up. That's a well-researched scientific notion, and most of us have heard about the idea of group think. It can be damaging and very powerful.

And when that phenomenon is paired with an underdeveloped mind, it was just also a scientific fact that the brain doesn't fully develop until 25. It's just true. And so there's risk factors. And to deny that is silly. It's just factual. I'm not sure that means we ban fraternities, but there should be much more thought into having the type of parties events that are typically unmonitored, monitored. Agreed. Yeah. Yeah, we have done podcasts. We have, we do, we also share a podcast called Killer Thriller. We did one about boys that were hazed to death. And, and that had nothing to do, obviously, with the girls. But that has to do with fraternities and all of that. But listen, I, I cannot thank you enough, really. We cannot thank you enough for coming on. I think that this is

Yes. Really valuable. There are pearls of wisdom here that I hope that the girls and the mom's listening take with them. I know that I'm going to. Even though my daughter is 24, Rachel, don't drink too much. But if you do, here's this. Yeah. And I want to say, I'm actually encouraged to hear that you have clients who are, you know, great parents, great people of young boys.

and they're questioning saying, oh, I can maybe do a little bit more with this. I think that's phenomenal. Like, that's what we need. Yeah. We may want to ask you to come back if you wouldn't mind very much because I think this thing is going to drag out for a while. Yeah. So we'd love to have you back. Yeah, I'd love to continue the conversation.

Thank you. Yeah, thank you so much. I'm Melissa Jeltson, host of the What Happened to Her podcast. We're kicking off the season with the San Francisco. Berchmore story, a case the police rode off as a suicide in a snowstorm. Her family never bought it, and the man they suspected wore a badge. You never know who that devil is because he's wearing in disguise. Sometimes it's a police uniform.

And you can get access to all episodes 100% ad-free with an IHeart True Crime Plus subscription exclusively on Apple Podcasts, available only to IHeart True Crime Plus subscribers. So don't wait. Head to Apple Podcasts, search for iHeart True Crime Plus, and subscribe today. Lisa, tell them about our new show. We have a new podcast. It's called Don't Lie to Me. I'm Lexi Youanu. We're two best friends, 22 years apart, but so close at heart. And I'm Lisa Di Giulio, the old one, which means we have wildly different references,

occasionally different opinions, and at this point in my 50s, I've lived it all. Now in my 30s, being the founder of new shoes, good taste is my business. Listen on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, this is Kylie Breakman. Angel Geratana. Jeremy Colhain. Patrick McDonald. And we're the hosts of the Artists on Artists on Artists on Artists Podcast.

The improvised character comedy podcast where each week a new panel of artists discuss their craft. Join us for a panel of Eurovision participants. And we do a little Halloween sometimes. Does the Pope dress up? He winks on Halloween. He gets right up next to the microphone. I hear you can almost hear the eyelashes hit each other. You never seen Italy so quiet as when the Pope gets up to wink on Halloween.

Listen to Artists on Artists on Artists on Artists every Thursday on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Lacey Mosley, author, actor, stand-up comedian, creator, and host of Scam Goddess Podcast. The True Crime Comedy Podcasts all about robbery, fraud, and those who practice it. Each week, I bring on an amazing guest. Ooh, I scammed them. What? I can talk to you for an hour.

You're a generational yapper like me. That's why I had to make yapping a job. And now you can catch full episodes of my show on YouTube. Start listening to Scam Goddess on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. What up y'all, y'all, Memphis Bleak right here, host of that Rock Solid podcast. And each week, we bring in you exclusive looks inside music. Everything happening inside the culture. Some of the best conversations were the biggest names in the game.

You had a little bit more pressure to be good. And they didn't care if you was a girl. Like, you wasn't getting no points. If you're not trash, you better be not just good. You better be great. Listen to Rock Solid on Black Effect Podcast Network, iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you streamed podcast. This is an IHeart podcast.

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