The Ben and Ashley I Almost Famous Podcast - Celebrities, They're Just Like Us

Episode Date: October 2, 2025

Nicole Kidman and Keith Urban's shocking divorce after 19 years of marriage! We are giving you all the details on how they've gone about untangling their nearly two-decade-long relationship. JLo makes rare comments about her divorce to Ben Affleck, Denise Richards' ex is gathering witnesses, Jessica Simpson is ready to date, and Ryan Lochte...is in some hot water. Celebrity divorces are just like ours, messy! Email us at: [e-mail] or call us at 844-4-I Do Pod (844-443-6763)Follow I Do, Part 2 on Instagram and TikTokSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Hi there, this is Josh Clark from the Stuff You Should Know podcast. If you've been thinking, man alive, I could go for some good true crime podcast episodes, then have we got good news for you. Stuff You Should Know just released a playlist of 12 of our best true crime episodes of all time. There's a shootout in broad daylight, people using axes in really terrible ways, disappearances, legendary heists, the whole nine yards. So check out the Stuff You Should Know true crime playlist.

I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Jonathan Goldstein, and on the new season of heavyweight... And so I pointed the gun at him and said this isn't a joke. A man who robbed a bank when he was 14 years old. And a centenarian rediscovers a love lost 80 years ago. How can a 101-year-old woman fall in love again? Listen to Heavyweight on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The murder of an 18-year-old girl in Graves County, Kentucky, went unsolved for years,

until a local housewife, a journalist, and a handful of girls came forward with a story. America, y'all better work the hell up. Bad things happens to good people. Small towns. Listen to Graves County on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And to binge the entire season ad-free, subscribe to Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts.

Hey, I'm Jay Shetty, and I'm the host of the on-purpose podcast. Recently, I had a conversation with the one and only Madonna. When I was broke and I had no friends, know where to live. I was held up at gunpoint. I was robbed. All these horrendous things happened to me. I had such an unhappy childhood that whatever happened to me in New York is better than what my life was, so I'm not going back. Listen to On Purpose with Jay Shetty on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. People called them murderers. 10 years later, they were gods. Today, no one knows their names. A group of maverick surgeons who took on the

establishment who risked everything to invent open heart surgery. Welcome to the Wild West of American Medicine. I'm Chris Pine, and this is Cardiac Cowboys. If you like medical dramas, if you like heart-pounding thrillers, you will love Cardiac Cowboys. Listen on the IHeart Radio app or wherever you listen to podcasts. Sponsored by Jasper, AI Build for Marketers. Hey, guys, it's I do part two, and it's your celebrity mentors, Cheryl Burke and

Jen Fessler. Hey, girl. So there's so much happening right now. Oh, wait for Cheryl, can I just say that, I mean, I'm a little starstruck. No. Yes, not no, yes. I've been watching you for so many years. It's just the most exciting thing that this is like why.

I think, like, the whole housewives of it all, not that it was fun to do, but like this kind of stuff always freaks me out. I can't believe that I'm talking with Cheryl Burke. Oh, you're so sweet. You're so sweet. When are you going to be doing dancing with the stars? That's not true. I say as soon as they ask me, never. Really?

I mean, I don't know. I could barely walk. So I can't imagine. Well, I could whip you into shape off camera. I know you could. Well, it's nice to meet you. It's so nice to meet you. So there's so much happening in the headlines right now.

Do you want to kick it off? Well, let's start with the most heartbreaking thing that I've read in quite some time. Keith Urban and Nicole Kidman are getting divorced. I mean, this one hurt. This one stung because first of all, I, well, I really love him. And I love her. It's hard not to. But just their relationship to me, the way he used to like go to a,

Ward shows, and you'd be like, I love you, baby, whatever, however, he would say in his Australian accent, and they were so affectionate, right? And the war shows, it was almost like a little cringy, but it was just taller than him. And, and, and, but it just was so, the whole thing to me was so adorable. Yeah, they were just overly affectionate, I think, as a couple and, and in person, that I think in the beginning, I was kind of like, oh, is this, is this real? You know, like, just because it was, I don't think we're used to seeing that, especially. with celebrity couples, they do tend to, you know, hold back maybe. Oh, well, yeah.

Or, yeah. I mean, they're not all over each other, you know, as much. I don't see that as much. Right. I don't know. I thought I bought into it as much as, yes, there were times I was like, what is happening here, especially with him. He seemed like.

He seemed mesmerized. I mean, how could he not be? And especially, like, on the tales of the, her first marriage, which, you know, was so heartbreaking so the Tom Cruz with Tom Cruise yeah and yeah thinking that she'd found love you know the second time around and he was just another superstar yeah I mean she's a superstar in her own right oh probably bigger than both of them really this well but yeah she's huge she's huge she seems really humble she seems like she's a good person and I mean I've never heard anything bad about Nicole Kidman on a personal level and that's always a good sign and same with him by the way always the sweetest

did you watch on do you watch the voice i did not watch it with him on it no not the voice um american idol wait he's was he on american idol yeah with lionel ritchie oh no i had did not see that i didn't even know he was on it yeah he was and so sweet and encouraging to the to the contestants yeah Yeah, this one. I definitely, did you see it coming? I definitely didn't. So I did do a little digging as I do, and I guess he, you know, he's going through sobriety or he, I don't know if he's trying to be sober or if he is publicly has announced this, but there has been some sort of alcohol involvement when it comes to their relationship and something that I guess that this is just per an article that I'm reading. This is not anything that I know personally, but supposedly it was an issue even before they got married. but Nicole still moved forward with it, you know, and I'm sober. So I've been sober for seven years now.

And it, you know, it does become that third person, your addiction sometimes, if not staying on top of it, you know. Also, I have no idea if this factors into it, but this is just us, you know, guessing. But I know her mom passed away recently. And I'm not scared that would lead them obviously to get divorced, but it seems like just emotionally she's been going through it. I don't know. Yeah. Well, there's also some cheating allegations that I read as well. I didn't read that. You're killing me. Really? Don't shoot the messenger.

I know. Wait, who? Him or her? Him. Oh, come on. He's supposedly actually currently seeing somebody, so. So funny. People always say this. And, you know, you think about women like Nicole Kidman, you know, one of the most beautiful women in the world and a superstar and so seems so, warm and talented and you know i guess it doesn't in the end the physical maybe doesn't i don't think it matters this doesn't no but i mean it looks like they i mean if you can have at least this is what

i'm reading you tell me but if you could have an amicable divorce or you know not so complicated it looks like they from what i'm reading it looks like they're i think they've settled it is it over it's not over they've settled as far as like properties go they never had any shared they didn't have joint they didn't have anything together they never bought property together he's in Nashville and I don't know where she is but I do know that they have already like split the furnace I mean they already went through it in that sense and the kids too right like they've already worked out the kids yes this custody he gets the kids on Father's Day I don't know if that's all I read up to he definitely gets a lot less time than she does um it used to be that just the mothers

did get so much more and I don't know that it's like that as much I mean, the kids are not that young either. So, I mean, I'm sure they had to say. Yeah, fair enough. And if they're in school, they're not going to want to go to a new school in Nashville. Even there, I think even like their Christmas vacations, like they alternate Christmas and maybe even day and then, but she gets more of the vacation. I don't know.

I mean, and if he is with somebody else, that is not. I mean, these kids are, again, they're not, they're old enough to be bothered by that. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Agreed. Yeah. I mean, I'm assuming there had to have been a pre-up, which I would have definitely, if anyone asked me, I would have definitely suggested with that kind of wealth.

Well, I do believe that because they're both successful, I think that eliminates quite a lot of drama, right? Like, they're not necessarily money-hungry. Right, they're both independently wealthy. Yeah, and I think that helps a lot. Yeah, yeah, definitely. No one, that fear, that financial insecurity and the fighting over the money is, is right. And we don't know where they got married or whatever, but like in California, you

You know, like, it is interesting. You can cheat all you want. They don't care. Right. They don't care to either. I think it's not, it's a no-fault state or something. Yeah. So it's like, no, they're trying to take the emotions out of everything, though.

It's very much not related. Do you know what I'm saying? Yeah. I mean, I'm just reading some of the notes here, but it's, yeah, she definitely gets a lot more time than him. And I guess, yeah, neither one is paying alimony. Mm-hmm. Don't need it. It says both Kimman and Urban's monthly income is reported in the filing,

as exceeding $100,000, which I'm sure it, you know, way exceeds it. But did he, I feel like he talked about, maybe he didn't get sober like a few years back. Yeah. Or maybe he didn't get sober. He talked about being sober, I guess, in 2021. But see, this is, when I decided to be sober, I just know that when I announced anything, it's like then the pressure and the overwhelming anxiety I have to have to live to that. So I never told anyone about my sobriety, not even my ex-husband at the time.

Like, I just decided to do it and see if I could do it for longer than just a week. Wow. Did you do it through like AA or did you just do it on your own in one day? Well, I didn't do AA right away. I first, well, in all transparency, I started, I stopped drinking as soon as my father passed away and I started having an allergic reaction like hives on my face to, I think, the poison I was putting in my body. But I was also very functioning drunk.

So no one knew it was very, and that's the most dangerous, I believe. So, but I do know this, that at that time, if anyone told me, okay, maybe you need to like cool it, like no more, the more I'd want to drink. Because until you take accountability, until you want to change your life, the person or the people who are telling you to be sober, you're going to resent. And so if, let's say, I'm not saying this is true, but if she tries to change. you can't change anybody, right? Like period, point blank, if you're going to really just make this a quick and short,

Clifno version. And when you do, then there is built up resentment, I think, towards that person. Yeah. I mean, again, like they're being so hush, hush about it. It's hard to, you know, know exactly what happened. Maybe, yeah, I mean, that makes sense. The cheating certainly makes sense. And she wanted to work it out still, though.

You know, she's like, but clearly he's not. Yeah, I saw that too. wanting that because I think it helps when you move on, I supposedly. I don't know. I'm sorry, but I can't help it. Fucking Keith Urban, man. Come on. Are you that shocked, though?

I'm not shocked. In general, I'm just not shocked. I think I'm jaded. I'm rarely, yeah, but I'm rarely shocked at these. Yeah. I really am. I guess I think, like, I always saw it after Tom Cruise. That weird.

I mean, that was the whole scientific. I don't think that I had anything to do with. I mean, she knew what she was getting into. Yeah. Yeah. But I think he was cuckoo. I mean, my opinion. And so what it was.

nice thing to find like right like this but it's not like she didn't know about it you know yeah yeah but the choice i'm sorry and i'm sorry i don't i try not to judge especially i don't even know what i'm talking about right same girlfriend him yeah exactly exactly there's what i think either right exactly i mean like and by the way you know we all know that that's a rebound and how long do rebounds last right and that's going to be a direct effect to his his uh sobriety i mean for me it at least it would definitely be you know that is another drug women and men and that's another addiction yeah yeah no i i've been there i think at one point in my life i definitely have that addiction love addiction the love addiction it definitely and it i think we all do it wreaks some havoc i don't

you know thank god i've been through it um you and i don't don't know each other well hopefully we will get to but i've been separated i've not been i was separated for like a year and a half and i think we both kind of went like a little crazy, but, you know, trying to find chasing that spark and, you know, what I thought was missing from that passion that, you know, I didn't have a lot of boyfriend. I had a lot of, I had a lot of, I had a lot of sex, but I didn't have a lot of boyfriends necessarily. And I think I was so, it was such an addiction for me to get attention for men and all of that. But, you know, today it's a totally different thing. I see a spark is something completely different.

Totally. It's not, right? I mean, I have been choosing not to date. I haven't dated since my ex-husband. So it's been three years of no sex, of nothing. And I was a serial dater. So like prior to getting married, I never was single since I was 13. Really?

Oh, yeah. Like, it was like I always had backup plans because I thought that you could fill up your cup with anything outside of you except for me having to do my own work, which was never going to be an option, obviously until now. but like nothing is sustainable when you look for that um anything else outside of you to fill up what is whatever you're yearning for other half right right there's no such thing and i think these movies right are so dangerous like the notebook and all of it because it's not real like that's not real amen sister but listen and i thought if it was going to be real and Nicole but listen they also um

they're also just human you know yeah yeah yeah i mean i mean i also just human you know yeah yeah i mean i also Also, I read that decisions about the kids, they're going to make together, which I think is fabulous, although I think she had final say. Because I think a lot of, well, I have a lot of friends who have been through divorce, are going through divorce. I mean, I think we all probably do. But that, but it was the money, the hardest parts were the money and the kids, obviously. and that struggle of, and I know both men and women that that just tore apart. For the men sometimes feeling like they had no power and whether or not they did. And for the mother feeling like a lot of times, this is just my personal experience.

I'm not saying this. No, you're right. I'm laughing because it's very relatable. I know it. I've lived three. But that has nothing to do with us. if you feel emasculated, that's all on you, buddy. Yes, yes, that, yes, agreed.

And then the mother's feeling like, I do know better. I am a mama bear. I know that this is what's right for this kid. And that struggle, right? I've been with a kid more. I've raised the kid, let's say, not in all cases. I don't want to get any blowback from this, but just in some of the ones that I've gone, you know, known my friends are like, I fucking gave birth to this kid.

I raise this kid where we do. Yeah, I know. what so but i mean i have to say when my mom and dad divorced at a young age my very first memory as a kid this audience has i think heard it before but i'll tell tell it again um was my dad cheating on my mother with another woman with his secretary i was like two and i know this much that i would have never whenever it was time for me to see my father because they separated obviously and i had i never wanted to see him because he was always with a different woman so and i was very young so if the kids can speak for themselves which i'm sure they can i highly doubt

they're going to want to be there with him if he's with somebody else. I was three, Cheryl, and I used to cry. I did not want to leave my mind. I know. I know the feeling. And my father was quite the womanizer. So, you know, and I had dealt with it. And that went into my 20s.

I still don't want to meet the new one ever. I know. It's a horrible feel. It's hard to, like, put into words for me at least. Like, it's just I do. I felt so, like I felt like he was cheating on me. It was a weird, it was a weird, like, protective. I think that's very common.

Yeah. But I under, I mean, now obviously it makes sense as to, like, you know, the pattern that I followed. It's so crucial those years of your life, you know. Look at you grown out. Exactly. Taking all your time for you. I love that. And I'm sorry, I don't mean to be shallow, but I just feel like when you're ready,

you're not going to have a hard time finding a man. Oh, I love you. Saying. Just saying. Thank you. Unfortunately, I don't like to leave my home. So unless he's behind closet number three, I don't know if I'm going to meet anybody. But that's a whole other podcast.

You're a lot younger than me. I mean, I have that now. But I am a homebody. I really also, not just my home, I really would rather not leave my bed. So there's that. Hi there. This is Josh Clark from the Stuff You Should Know podcast. If you've been thinking, man, alive, I could go for some good true crime podcast episodes.

Then have we got good news for you? Stuff You Should Know just released a playlist of 12 of our best. true crime episodes of all time. There's a shootout in broad daylight, people using axes in really terrible ways, disappearances, legendary heists, the whole nine yards. So check out the stuff you should know

true crime playlist. On the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Jonathan Goldstein, and on the new season of heavyweight, I help a centenarian mend a broken heart. How can a 101-year-old woman fall in love

again. And I help a man atone for an armed robbery he committed at 14 years old. And so I pointed the gun at him and said this isn't a joke and he got down

and I remember feeling kind of a surge of like okay, this is power. Plus, my old friend Gregor and his brother tried to solve my problems through hypnotism. We could give you a whole brand new thing

where you're like super charming all the time. Being more able to look people in the eye. Not always hide behind a microphone. Listen to Heavyweight on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. All I know is what I've been told, and that to have truth is a whole lie. For almost a decade, the murder of an 18-year-old girl from a small town in Graves County, Kentucky, went unsolved. until a local homemaker, a journalist, and a handful of girls came forward with a story. I'm telling you, we know Quincy Kilder, we know.

A story that law enforcement used to convict six people, and that got the citizen investigator on national TV. Through sheer persistence and nerve, this Kentucky housewife helped give justice to Jessica Curran. My name is Maggie Freeling. I'm a Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist, producer, and, I wouldn't be here if the truth were that easy to find. I did not know her and I did not kill her. Or rape or burn or any of that other stuff that y'all said. They literally made me say that I took a match and struck and threw it on her. They made me say that I poured gas on her.

From Lava for Good, this is Graves County, a show about just how far our legal system will go in order to find someone to blame. America, y'all better work the hell up. Bad things happens to good people in small towns. Listen to Graves County in the Bone Valley feed on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And to binge the entire season ad-free, subscribe to Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. Hey, I'm Jay Shetty, and I'm the host of the On Purpose podcast. Recently, I had a conversation with the one and only, Madonna.

When I was broke and I had no friends, nowhere to live, I was held up at gunpoint, I was robbed. Always horrendous things happened to me. I had such an unhappy childhood that whatever happened to me in New York is better than what my life was, so I'm not going back. Listen to On Purpose with Jay Shetty on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. cause. People called them murderers. Ten years later, they were gods. Today, no one knows their names. A group of maverick surgeons who took on the medical establishment who risked everything to invent open heart surgery. Welcome to the Wild West of American Medicine. I'm Chris Pine and this is Cardiac Cowboys. If you like medical dramas, if you like heart pounding thrillers, you will love

cardiac cowboys. Listen on the IHeart Radio app or wherever you listen to Pottie. Sponsored by Jasper, AI Build for Marketers. Do we move on to the next horrible divorce? This is just so a Debbie Downer, but it is real. This is real life, right? So let's talk about, oh, Scott Wolfe. I haven't followed two. I mean, it's just, it got really, like, dramatic, fast.

I mean, I saw, did you see a couple, I saw a meltdown? No, I can't. I don't know why. That type of stuff really triggers me. I just get really uncomfortable. I don't like it. It's uncomfortable. It's uncomfortable.

Sad to watch. And, you know, it was kind of everywhere. I think of Scott Wolf. From Party of Five. Well, I actually did something with him, not recently. This was recently. It was like 10 years ago, but it feels like yesterday. We did some game show on ABC together.

And he was so, I mean, listen, everyone when you first meet at them, they're great people, right? We don't know what's happening behind closed doors. But it isn't. seem to be like he seems like no drama he seems really calm you know i again this is one of those where we're just speculating but i feel her pain and i feel her she she definitely is from what it appears although she denies it she seems a little bit unhinged mental health and maybe with very good reason i don't know what kind of husband he was i don't know what kind of you know relationship they had but I see him being pretty staunch and it sounds and from what I'm reading it seems

that she's not getting the time with her kids and I mean that has that's from yeah I don't know that feeling because I don't have kids so it's it you know the just the very thought of it is so is so overwhelming frightening and I don't know what kind of mother I have no idea all of that but what I see right now is just sad and sound it feels like she's she's she is come a bit undone. Well, I have to say that it makes it seem like she's gotten mentally insane. And but then now when you're saying that,

I'm like, okay, but I don't know all the pieces, right? I don't know. And by the way, no one really knows but them. But unfortunately, they're public figures. And it's just not making her look good. Well, she didn't show up her court this last, I believe this last time. Right.

For whatever reason. It's related to misdemeanor charges, though. Oh. she's facing so you know look but like you said if you take your kids away from a mother I would kill somebody too right like I would literally fight to like I would fight for my kids yeah I fought for my dog like yeah listen I mean oh wait she posted at one point Scott's phone number okay okay so so that's not okay regardless right but look I just think mental health is just still so uncomfortable for people to talk about.

So stigmatized. I feel like you are a danger to society if you leave your home and you're not mentally healthy. And to yourself. Yes, exactly. And it's like, that is the scariest. Like, we're seeing it on CNN on the news. People are just like gone bat shit crazy, right?

I feel like, especially now. There's no filter. I feel like that too. I know also her kids made some not great posts about her. So that's sad. It is really, really freaking sad. Yeah. I mean, you know, you watch all these stories and sometimes they're salacious and if you're somebody, which I don't, I'm not happy to admit it, but who loves sometimes, you know, gossip and drama and and Hollywood, you know, trash talking.

And so, you know, you get off on it a little bit, but the truth is like something like this, it just seems so sad to me. I think that's why I don't like to read about it because I do feel like I'm like reading someone's diary or something. I feel so uncomfortable. I don't like when I see people fight on TV. It makes me so uncomfortable. Never watch Housewives. I have, but whenever you, whenever anybody fights.

Sorry. No, but I think it's the little girl. I think there's something being triggered, obviously. I think whether it's my mom and dad fighting, never physical, but still, like, I don't like it. It makes me uncomfortable. But for some people, they love it. I was a huge fan. And now, but it's not fun to be in the,

middle of it for sure i can't imagine girl i cannot imagine no no and then having to watch it back oh my god and then the social media and the the hate of it all yes um not that i don't i think dancing with the stars would be harder but that's just me well yeah physically maybe different so what about are you seeing um jlo's comments about so she has this new movie and she's making all these comments about her marriage and ben afflick i don't know about her divorce i mean i haven't anything like too specific but just talking about how um how distraught she was during her i'm sure she was yeah i mean it seemed like really at a left field like where did that come from is where how did they get back together right i mean do you remember the song she wrote for him the first time they got together

so weird yeah yeah yeah whoa i mean talk about i love i'm not saying she's a love addict but like she loves love like who doesn't right like clearly she she gives a chance to love whether it doesn't matter who it is right right right right she said something about like it was the this the divorce is the best thing that ever happened to her because it changed her i doubt that i doubted too let's be real here well she also just got she just went through getting kind of like publicly slammed yes yeah like just not being such a sweet nice person yeah yeah so i mean i'm sure she has i'm sure she has changed yeah I mean, and listen, he obviously has also had issues, substance issues.

Exactly. But like he keeps going running back home to his ex. If I had been married to Jennifer Garner, I would be, I would too. Exactly. Right. I mean, she seems like a safe house for me at least. I have to run home to her too. I, 100%.

It would make me a warm meal and make me feel all good and warm inside. A hundred percent. And when it, when they first got divorced and I was like, what? did you do but you know that's got to trigger the other jennifer like come on that's so triggering totally and you know she still's like sometimes hanging out with the kids i think that looks that seems messy to me she's messy sun out photo ops the photo ops is what kills me i can't do the photo ops i agree and unfortunately today you can see when it's a photo up yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah you get everywhere and you see it's it rubs people the wrong way now like we all can see just like television

You can't lie, whether it's your body language that you're not hiding or whatever it is. Like, for me, you could just see it on my face, no matter how much Botox I had, right? Like, it didn't matter. Like, you can see it. And so, like, there was nothing that you can, same thing with everything. Yeah, hide it. Of course. And with Ben also, always specifically.

I mean, I don't think I've seen, I didn't see, I haven't seen Ben with her kids. I've just seen her with his kids. Which seems forced. I don't know. I don't know. It feels, yeah, it feels very messy to me. And I think that maybe for the kids, that would be confusing. But they have Jennifer Garner for a mother who is not because no one is,

but gives the appearance to me of being a perfect mother. Well, yeah. I mean, she just seems like a very normal, which is not normal for us to see Jennifer Garner is. Like, she just seems very normal. She doesn't care. She doesn't wear tons of making. She's not like, she doesn't care what she looks like.

I feel like that too. I feel like I feel like I do. There's no way. And she's still gorgeous. She's even more beautiful. Oh, my God. During the fires, L.A. fire, she was out there. She was getting dirty.

Yep. You know what I'm saying? And it wasn't a photo op. Yeah. You know, it's funny. I don't, Ben, he does seem like he keeps sort of showing up and wanting to be with her. But when I was separated, I was, my life was such chaos. And I remember just feeling like my husband was, what are you doing, Jennifer?

Like, he is your safe place. And I would, you know, we were, we didn't. It wasn't. it wasn't that contentious. Well, obviously, because we got back together. Wait, what happened if you don't mind me asking? No, not at all. Why did you split?

We were cheated on each other. And so that happened, but that's, that was the actual impetus. But of course. I think it was seven years in, very cliche. We had two young kids. And we were just really not checking in, not really, and arguing a lot and feeling the stress of having a young family and not taking not just i think taking each other for granted we always say that um and then then add infidelity to that and you know it it kind of fell apart but the

thing is i feel like maybe i well maybe we both felt like been in it because there was just so much that i missed and not just mostly him my best friend but also just the that feeling of peace because my husband is, I'm nuts. I'm completely out of my fucking mind, and he is solid, right? It's balanced you. Yes, yes. And, you know, it feels like Ben is definitely the one who has erratic behavior. Jen Garner seems so.

I mean, I just, what I was scared, though I don't know any of them, but with Jennifer Gardner, I was like, please don't go back to him. Like, I hope that, but clearly, she's not just. beautiful woman and smart she's very strong and she doesn't because she's not getting back together with him but she's definitely still cordial obviously yeah maybe a little bit more than cordial i think i think there's this thing when people are really and i and i think this is where you can see the beautiful side of humans right i believe that when someone's at their lowest you know you hopefully you have people who love you that will help you right and i believe that

if anything, it's more like she feels maybe sorry for him. Yeah. Yeah. No, I agree. I feel like it seems like that to me too. I mean, that's, you know. The beauty of marriage, right? You know, it's funny, I want it so badly to talk to you about your marriage and divorce. I can only say so much. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, really? You are divorced. I am divorced, but we did sign a pre-up. Yeah. And I'm not going to ask you, but this is maybe not. we're talking about you know but at some point i i not not just out of curiosity but sounds it sounds like it was first of all very difficult but it's so inspiring that you're sober and oh yeah it tested me though yeah i bet it did no doubt i mean i also it wasn't just the divorce

with my ex it was the divorce with dancing with the stars all in one year and then leaving my home i lived in for 16 years and i moved to where i am today so it's like it's just um it was all happening in one year. And those are three big life changes. They say if you hit five in one year, you're most likely going to check into the nearest mental institution. That makes sense. That's just my personality. Let's just do it now. We've got to do it now. Yeah. I mean, do you have regrets about the way it went down? No, but to say that I haven't or still sometimes grieve would be a lie too. I think it can be both. You know, I know that I needed to cut off basically both divorce is in order for me to be able to see what I see in the mirror and actually like the person

I see. Yeah. And I think that though it happened quickly, this was not just quickly, quick decisions. This was stuff lingering inside of me for many, many years, you know. I'm guessing, hoping therapy. Oh, I've been in therapy since I was, since I saw my dad with another woman when I was two. So I haven't stopped. I, I, me too, years and years and years.

I can't imagine life without therapy. No, even my parents were like, you're still in therapy. I'm like, hey, listen, that generation, stop it. You know, like, I don't think there's, I think when you think you're good is when you need to go to therapy, actually. You know, and even the days, I had therapy today and I was like not in the mood. Of course not. Right. It's work.

And like, even the days, I'm not in the mood. Yeah. It's, I lead therapy. It's so cathartic. And when something actually happens in my week, I think, I feel like, oh, my God, I can't wait to get, whatever. A non-biased opinion is. So vital. It's vital. But also to be able to build and create and save tools of how you can deal or instead of react, respond to something is something that money can't buy. Right. That's that is what I mean by like it's like physical health. Like people, you can't just work out at one day and think you're going to stay whatever snatched or get even snatched. It's not even close. It's all consistency. And yet people are like it's too expensive. To me, when you say that, you don't want to invest in yourself. Like that to me, to me, crazy. Especially now, I feel like there's so many different. Chat GPT is killing it with the therapy,

supposedly. Really? Oh, yeah. It's crazy. I don't know why I feel like that's hard for me. I can't imagine that's like I don't know whether Zoom, but I need that, I need her. I need that human who knows who I can see on her face and she can see on mine. I have to say that my therapist, I mean, you know, a lot of people are a little bit nervous about it, but at the end of the day, this is where we're heading, right? So, like, we can't fight AI. So instead, let's just see what it can do. And, you know, I remember my therapist saying that she had a client who couldn't get a hold of her one night.

And he used chat, GBT, because he needed answers to, and it worked. Yeah. Hi there. This is Josh Clark from the Stuff You Should Know podcast. If you've been thinking, man alive, I could go for some good true crime podcast episodes, then have we got good news for you. Stuff You Should Know just released a playlist of 12 of our best true crime episodes of all time. There's a shootout in broad daylight, people using axes in really terrible ways,

disappearances, legendary heists, the whole nine yards. So check out the Stuff You Should Know true crime playlist on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Jonathan Goldstein, and on the new season of heavyweight. I help a centenarian mend a broken heart. How can a hundred and one year old woman fall in love again? And I help a man atone for an armed robbery he committed at 14 years old. And so I pointed the gun at him and said this isn't a joke. And he got down and I remember

feeling kind of a surge of like, okay, this is power. Plus, my old friend Gregor and his brother try to solve my problems through hypnotism. We could give you a whole brand new thing where you're like super charming all the time. Being more able to look people in the eye. Not always hide behind a microphone. Listen to Heavyweight on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

All I know is what I've been told, And that's a half-truth is a whole lie. For almost a decade, the murder of an 18-year-old girl from a small town in Graves County, Kentucky, went unsolved. Until a local homemaker, a journalist, and a handful of girls came forward with a story. I'm telling you, we know Quincy Kilder, we know. A story that law enforcement used to convict six people and that got the citizen investigator on national TV. Through sheer persistence and nerve, this Kentucky housewife helped give justice to Jessica Curran. My name is Maggie Freeling.

I'm a Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist, producer, and I wouldn't be here if the truth were that easy to find. I did not know her and I did not kill her, or rape or burn or any of that other stuff that y'all said. They literally made me say that I took a match and struck and threw it on her. They made me say that I poured gas on her. From Lava for Good, this is Graves County, a show about just how far our legal system will go in order to find someone to blame. America, y'all better work the hell up. Bad things happens to good people in small towns. Listen to Graves County in the Bone Valley feed on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

And to binge the entire season at free, subscribe to Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. People called them murderers. Ten years later, they were gods. Today, no one knows their names. A group of maverick surgeons

who took on the medical establishment who risked everything to invent open-heart surgery. Welcome to the Wild West of American Medicine. Listen. I'm Chris Pine, and this is Cardiac Cowboys. If you like medical dramas, if you like heart-pounding thrillers, you will love cardiac cowboys. Listen on the IHeart Radio app or wherever you listen to podcasts. Sponsored by Jasper, AI Build for Marketers. Hey, I'm Jay Shetty, and I'm the host of the on-purpose podcast. Recently, I had a conversation with the one and only, Madonna. When I was broke and I had no friends, nowhere to live, I was held up at gunpoint. I was really. Robbed, always horrendous things happened to me. I had such an unhappy childhood that whatever happened to me in New York is better than what my life was.

So I'm not going back. Listen to On Purpose with Jay Shetty on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Speaking of working and working on yourself, how about Jessica Simpson? Yeah, I know. She's creating a sexy lingerie line. fabulous. I actually, she got a little bit of blowback online, I think, about her. I understand. Right. Well, I mean, right. People are just mean. Oh, yeah. Even, even worse when you're actually, it's like, you know, you gain weight. You get, you get, and I, I mean, I definitely experienced that when I was

on the show. Then you lose weight, and I'm experiencing it now where people are just so horribly mean. Like, it's even worse. People are mean to you. I mean, you're so. Oh, my God. You see it go on my, look at my Instagram. Like, you just see comments. It's just actually, I've stopped now. I've done a lot of therapy about it, though, too. But it's like, I, you know, I'm choosing to be in this business, right? It's all a choice. And so, therefore, I think for me, I'm such a people pleaser that I want everyone to love me.

But that's just not reality, right? Well, I've learned that the hard way. So, right, I definitely. I mean, she looks, she's so hot. She always has been. I was also disappointed about that when I heard about that separation. Really? I don't know anything about.

him. But I thought she looked happy. I mean, I remember her back with Nick. What's his name? Le She? Yes. But like she, this guy, he was so handsome and they have these adorable kids. And it's always like, what? But what do you know? Do you know anything about? I just, I just remember that she's sober now. So I think that, again, you know, the alcohol was played that third person that is never ends in a good way. Because if you don't have control over it, right? Then it's, then it gets ugly sometimes, I'm sure. When did she get sober? Do you know? yeah a few years back she got sober yeah yeah well she's she's ready to start dating again good for her and she's 45 she looks great and she won't have an issue with that i mean i don't know i will never

do dating app so i i don't think she would either it doesn't have for you guys when i think you guys celebrities when it's time to start that process again i mean i haven't done it so because it's just sounds is overwhelming i'm just like that sounds horrible right i still think like the old-fashioned way like if you have a friend you know what I mean like so that I believe is still out there I mean how would you do dating apps it would be I can't I just they do have like celebrity ones or something they have Raya Raya but again I'm looking for something a little more deeper than just going and swiping through what somebody looks like right because if that was the case I'd probably not even end up with the right person because I'm just judging you by the cover yes that's a huge that is a huge

problem for young people right now is that they are not going out and having the face to face and the pheromones and it is it's affecting the mental health yes i read a lot of this specifically with young boys that they are yeah and and but they also don't learn rejection and they don't and you know you have to be able to make eye contact shake a hand yeah and then and then if you're rejected it's okay you go out the next night and you or whatever it is. And so, yeah, social media, we can just go, that's a whole other episode.

But listen, she has got some, apparently she's very into leopard, she's got some sexy lingerie. Listen, she was a shoe maven. Look what she did with shoes. I mean, I have Jessica Simpson shoes, do you? So do I. Yes.

They're great. They're actually really comfortable. She understood. She definitely got the memo with the platform and the stiletto. You balance that out. You can run miles in them. I don't, I can't wear high.

feels and actually you have a shoe line I created for this very reason. But even though, even my own shoes that are three heels. But do you have a platform? I know a platform is huge. Nope. It's not a platform. Yeah, but sometimes you don't want to wear platforms. They look a little hookery.

I agree. I just think about the way you guys, how your feet lasted from the years and years. I've got pretty ass feet. I don't know anybody else, but my feet look like I could be a foot model. And I think it's because I never dance barefoot. I don't do that. Really? I can't.

I came out of my mom's womb. with dances with three and a half inch stiletto heels like my calves are sore if I don't wear heels so because if shortened yes yes that's unbelievable but like I but all these kids you know they're dancing barefoot they're dancing in sneakers like I can't like I was I just was trained in a different era your whole body moves according to knowing right course like like how do you dance in sneakers and feel feminine like it's just I can't do it it's a whole thing it's a whole thing interesting Well, I mean, listen, if she's as good at lingerie as she's been in shoes. Or her team, yes.

Yeah, right? I mean, a lot of, she talks about a lot of leopard. She said she likes the, even her furniture is leopard. I think her grandmother, it's her own version of beige. I don't know about lingerie leopard. It's already kind of racy as it is. And by the way, it's just a trend. We are soon going to be over this animal print, I promise you.

Yeah, yeah. Well, I hope not because I'm going to BravoCon a few weeks. and I bought this ridiculously expensive leopard dress. I love me a Dolce. I love a red and a leopard always. I don't say. Yeah, so I got a Dolkier. Did you watch the Charlie Sheen documentary?

I did. I have to. I'm dying to. Oh, it's so good. It's so good. Round of applause for him. I mean, I had to watch it because I just loved him as a human being when I met him. He's a good guy.

Oh, really? Well, he seems that even when he was, you know, in his winning phase in the whack-a-doodle phase. No, I still, but it's just like I can relate to him. Like, there is something very powerful. And he does reveal quite a lot of different things that I never knew about him that makes me love him even more. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, you know, it's funny watching it. Also, the Denise Richards and him and the way that she been, I saw this clip where she talked about how she had a feeling he had HIV before.

Did you see that? I mean, you obviously saw the whole thing. Well, I know Denise, because she did Dancing with the Stars. Yeah, and she's such a sweet soul, too. It's like, and she still loves. You can tell she has so much love for him. Like she still gets very emotional. And I think when she did dancing, this was at the height of when they split or they had just split.

And it was tough for her. You know, it's tough. It's just tough. Like divorce is one thing. And then starting something new and like having it take up a lot of time is tough as well. So I don't think she has so much love for her. Her ex, X. Yeah.

Her last X. Yeah. Yeah. I wouldn't either. Me? Neither. Just looks so horrible. Right? It looks really shady.

I know. I know. On his part. A hundred percent. I mean, I don't know if you, so if you didn't watch Beverly Hills, the house. I watched a little bit, a little bit. There's that one, well, they show the clip a lot where they're walking out of this party. And he says something about how he's going to crush their holding hands. Say another thing and I'll crush your hand or something really scary. No. I hope I'm not, allegedly, but it's not really allegedly. It was on. Well, if it was on the show. I hope I don't know if that was exactly something about something violent. Well, they can use that against him. Yeah, so that was really, and I'm sure that they will. But by the way, who is this person?

Like, obviously, I don't know. I mean, I don't know him, but this is just a classic, like, person that somebody marries who's really famous and is known trying to, you know, be set for life because of this supposedly she cheated or it doesn't matter, though, in California, right? It doesn't matter if you cheated. So, like, what he's saying is irrelevant. I was wondering about that because, I think, again, in Jersey, it's that, like, Why? Because he's bringing in now all these witnesses to talk about the fact that she cheated. Why does it matter?

But it doesn't matter. Right. So the judge is going to laugh in his face. Like he can say this all he wants. It doesn't, it's not the audience that's voting. Right? Like, what are you doing? Yeah. He's bringing in. So let's see. He's bringing in. I don't know why. What's her name? Well, Charlie and Brandy. I don't know how she's involved. Brandy. Because Brandy Glanville said that she had an affair with Denise Richards. I don't know if it was why. she was married. Maybe. I don't remember. But yes, that they, I think it was like a one-night situation. Did they get married in California?

I don't know. But I know that, and it might have been while she was married to this guy. But apparently they had like a whole thing. And Brandy claimed that Denise came onto her or something. Again, I hope not miss speaking. But they had definitely,

she definitely said that they had an affair. Well, I remember when this whole thing about her doing, only fans Only fans Oh my god That's what I should do No I'm kidding

Yes your feet 100% I do have some weirdos Following me Always asking me About my feet It's the most weird Like people have foot fetish

You know Real fetish of that I know Some weird as shit right there I mean no judgment He's bringing in no judgment Amen But who else is he

He's bringing in No but he would photograph her So there's a part of me That thinks that he actually liked the fact that Brandi and her Got together

at that point if that's what it was now i don't know i think it's a bump i think it's a stupid excuse but if they did get married in california the judge is not going to allow for these people to even step on to the stand here because it's irrelevant right doesn't matter exactly i think that let's see she had a she actually filed a restraining order against it so i think he's he is f-u-c-k-ed yes yes i wonder and listen i can only hope that there was a pre-nup i can't imagine in this day and age. I would hope so. I hope she definitely. I don't know if he would have signed it though. You know, you never know.

And I don't know. I think sometimes especially when you're doing it, when you, the woman is doing it, you know. And when you fall madly in love, I think a lot of women make that mistake. But you would think Denise would learn her lesson. She's smart.

She's a smart woman. Yes. She is. But if he is like sometimes when you're in a relationship it gets foggy. This one is, This one is scary. It is scary. It's every red flags everywhere. Right.

So not good. I just hope she's safe. That's all that really matters at the end of the day. And he violated the restraining order. That's scary. Yeah, it is. He's not going to win this. I can almost bet my right ass cheek.

And what a kid that was he, their kids though are not, the two daughters are Charlie's and then she has an adopted daughter. I don't know if he's. He's got kids too, I think. He has like two girls, I think. So he's calling in all these witnesses. Have you ever been like, have you ever done anything like that? I mean, I mean, I was definitely testified against my molester when I was nine,

but that's as far as I, that's as far nothing to do with as an adult, no. I have to take a beat. I'm so sorry that that happened to you. Thank you. It's so casual for me because I've said it publicly so many times. I'm sorry. I know you don't know. So, yeah, thank you.

Don't be sorry. I'm, I'm sorry. And how horrible. Yeah. How horrible. So, yeah, this. one that one is not good not that any of them are good but particularly scary sounds like to me it just doesn't sound i mean the fact that you when anyone files a restraining order that's definitely not um that

that that that is a sign to the outside world that you know she may not be safe agreed so i hope she has really good friends and i and i hope that she feels safe wherever she is you know you have the secret wish that maybe that like her and charlie will no i don't it's kind of like jennifer gardner and ben like I just want them to be good friends because I don't I believe that they're just first of all I mean I think Charlie's he has been sober but still I just there's so many skeletons like they're an ex for a reason believe me I married my ex so yeah I get that for like 10 years and then we came reunited it's just like they're an ex for a reason though I still have I wish him all like the best again it's just not like why go back let's move forward except in your case it's seems to work. Thank you. Thank you. I'm glad to see that he's come out of that wild time and life that he led. I mean, I look at addiction is scary. It's a disease. I think about Maconbury all the time. And, you know, I think he talks about. I'm not sure. I saw him also on Bill Maher. I feel like he was talking about that miracle that he's alive. Oh, yeah. No, but the amount, if I watched this

documentary twice, because it was just so good and it was eye opening and I just wanted to make sure I hung on. Like, I just wanted to make sure I saw everything. Yeah. Because what he revealed, with the amount, I mean, his drug dealer was on this documentary, like saying he couldn't believe how much he was doing as far as drugs go and that he every single day, he would wake up wondering if he was still alive and he would go for weeks, binge for week, like weeks upon weeks upon weeks and this guy never stopped. And the fact that he's still alive is just a miracle. When I did see him on Bill Maher, he's also, he's very eloquent, he's very self-deprecating. He's just so likable.

Oh, he is. but whatever is life changing is it hard right like you're not comfortable when you're making life changes right well incredible so that's also another episode you and i are going to have to follow up in a lot oh there's lots of yeah lots of different ways we could go hi there this is josh clark from the stuff you should know podcast if you've been thinking man alive i could go for some good true crime podcast episodes then have we got good news for you stuff you should just released a playlist of 12 of our best true crime episodes of all time. There's a shootout in broad daylight, people using axes in really terrible ways,

disappearances, legendary heists, the whole nine yards. So check out the stuff you should know true crime playlist. On the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Jonathan Goldstein, and on the new season of heavyweight, I help a centenarian mend a broken heart. How can a hundred and one year old woman? and fall in love again. And I help a man atone

for an armed robbery he committed at 14 years old. And so I pointed the gun at him and said this isn't a joke. And he got down and I remember feeling kind of a surge of like, okay, this is power. Plus, my old friend Gregor and his brother tried to solve my problems through hypnotism. We could give you a whole brand new thing

where you're like super charming all the time. Being more able to look people in the eyes. Not always hide behind a microphone. Listen to heavyweight on the I-Heart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. All I know is what I've been told, and that's a half-truth is a whole lie. For almost a decade, the murder of an 18-year-old girl

from a small town in Graves County, Kentucky went unsolved, until a local homemaker, a journalist, and a handful of girls came forward with a story. I'm telling you, we know Quincy Kilder, we know. A story that law enforcement used to convict six people, and that got the citizen investigator on national TV. Through sheer persistence and nerve, this Kentucky housewife helped give justice to Jessica Curran.

My name is Maggie Freeling. I'm a Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist, producer, and I wouldn't be here if the truth were that easy to find. I did not know her and I did not kill her, or rape or burn or any of that other stuff that y'all said. They literally made me say that I took a match and struck and threw it on her. They made me say that I poured gas on her. From Lava for Good, this is Graves County, a show about just how far our legal system will go in order to find someone to blame. America, y'all better work the hell up.

Bad things happens to good people in small towns. Listen to Graves County in the Bone Valley feed on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And to binge the entire season ad-free, subscribe to Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. People called them murderers. Ten years later, they were gods.

Today, no one knows their names. A group of maverick surgeons who took on the medical establishment who risked everything to invent open-heart surgery. Welcome to the Wild West of American Medicine. I'm Chris Pine, and this is Cardiac Cowboys. If you like medical dramas, if you like heart-pounding thrillers, you will love Cardiac Cowboys. Listen on the IHeart Radio app

Or wherever you listen to podcasts Sponsored by Jasper AI Build for Marketers Hey I'm Jay Shetty And I'm the host of the on-purpose podcast Recently I had a conversation With the one and only Madonna When I was broke and I had no friends

Nowhere to live I was held up at gunpoint I was robbed Always horrendous things happen to me I had such an unhappy childhood that whatever happened to me in New York It's better than what my life was So I'm not going back.

Listen to On Purpose with Jay Shetty on the IHart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Should we talk about my ex-partner on Dancing with the Stars? Ryan Lockty, I danced with that guy. You dance with everybody. I had 20, I danced, I did 27 seasons. Holy shit. I know. I'm like, yeah, hence the retirement.

My hips can no longer hip. I can't even imagine. me about Ryan and tell me about because now he's going through so when I danced with him he had just you know the Olympics obviously we also had protesters that like came onto the dance floor and we thought they had guns and they were going to blow our heads off it was insanity like during the live show I've never seen our security guard shout out to Dave but tackle somebody so quickly what was the what was the scandal I'm sorry remind me was the Olympic scandal I can't even I mean it was I don't really know 100% and I don't want it he lied we got me like that

He said he got rocked. He didn't or something. Yes, but he was also intoxicated. And I'm not making any excuses. He should not have lied. But if you were to meet Ryan, he is very so, he's such a sweet man. He really is. He could not.

Like at first, I was like, oh, great. I'm getting another controversial figure and this is going to, is this guy just going to be lazy? No, he worked so hard and he is so vulnerable. And he just trusted me in the process. And for me, that's the best dance partner ever. I don't care what your dance ability. is. If I like you as a person, I'm going to invest also so much into you, right? You've got to write a book. You have got to write a book. I did. But in 2011, we've got

a chapter two coming up here soon because it's a lot. There's so much to talk about. I got to get your book. Wait, what's it called? Well, no, this was a, this was back in 2011 before there was even audible. So this was called dancing lessons, how dance how dancing has shaped my life. But yeah, yeah, it's been, it's been a whirlwind for sure. No doubt. I mean, the show has changed my life and it's been so amazing and with that though has been so many life lessons and this one included with Ryan um he had just met Kayla literally when we just started dancing right and then I believe got her pregnant right um also during the season I think and look they he was he was absolutely in love with her he basically took me and step by step because this is how I'm

to propose to her. This was like week six of the competition. And he was so in love with her. And I just recently, when I had my dancing with the stars, it was called Sex Lides and Sprayton's podcast that's no longer happening. But he was on. And they seemed fine. So when I heard about this, this was shocking, right? For me. And I guess he already has somebody else that he's trying to I mean, there's a common denominator here. Would you like to say it? Yes. You, well, you say it. No, I mean, I'm not saying all men. I'm not saying all men. But, like, I think it's just the way we're made. You think that it's like that just men are not made from Pocci?

Yeah, like, what is the book called? Men are for Mars. Women are from Venus, right. I just think that's what it is. Like, and some people can handle it. And some people can't. And I can't. So, therefore, I'm single.

Right. Listen, who knows what the, you're not going to, I, again, if I'm a bet and girl, you're not going to be single forever. But I'm okay. I've never been so happy content in my life. There's no drama. Maybe you will. But I feel like I was able to get past.

We were both able to get past the infidelity. I do know is very rare. But you guys both admitted it, right? 100%. That's the thing. When you don't take ownership or you flip, flop back and forth and gas light, that's when I don't. I can forgive the act of. I know I can do that.

That's what happened with us. I mean, it was the, it was an act. It wasn't a relationship. I don't know how I would have felt if it had been a relationship. If it was, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then it was, and then it was me. And then we both separated. We did have relationships and obviously came back together. What was it that made you want to get back together? And how did it

work out timing wise? He just never wanted to get divorced. Like I would, I always, I told the story on the show, but I was like, I was seeing someone else. He was seeing someone else. It was just this absolute sadness. Like the kids, my daughter would call and be like, Daddy's being mean. And I was like, you think that you're going to call me and complain about your father, honey. You got the wrong number, okay? You are blessed. And then we would talk about separating and we, I trusted him so completely. I knew he wasn't going to, you know, dick me over. And I knew he wanted to get back together. And I would, you know, we were both with other people and I would tell my boyfriend at the time, I'm going to mediation and I was like meeting my husband at Chili's. Like, so you're

cheating on your boyfriend with your husband. It was just, it was all. Interesting. Yeah. And I mean, do you think that that, like seeing him with another woman and him seeing you, with another man, you know, you know, you don't know what you have till you lose it type thing. Like was it, was it a clear comparison as to like, you should have never lasted? The other guy, the guy that I was involved with was, was very nice and very, and, and he was involved with not, she had a couple of like relationships when we were separated. So I don't think it was a matter, a matter of that. It was just, I just missed him.

I missed him. I love that. Yeah, I mean. It's very rare. You hear this. I know. I know. I feel very, very lucky.

and looking back at it. Do you hold any resentment, like, for any of it? No. I was a willing participant in what went down. And even he, so he was unfaithful first, but I was also checked out in this way. I don't be checked out, like, just, like, I was like the women in my town. We would all go out on Thursday nights and, like, flirt with guys, even. But I'm talking about a lot of married women at that time.

And we'd go out and we drink and we'd flirt. we get all dressed up and I think I was steps away from it being me so no I don't think I mean I guess it doesn't really matter first first first at the end of the day like you said earlier it's deeper than all of the action right like it's so much deeper I love that you take accountability over over your stuff I think that is that you know that's the only way to heal you know yeah I think still to this day and then we'll wrap it up about me it's not about me but we feel both I don't have any resentment because I think we just both feel very lucky it doesn't happen a lot that you can find each other again so anyway but i think holding yourself accountable i can forgive anybody that does this like you know what i mean like it's like that i'm very good at and i'm assuming he is too right yes he certainly is he always was yeah so and ryan of ryan i mean look currently ryan is undermining kela as the mother of their children as on multiple occasions he has brought his uh pair more of only a couple months to the minor children's school to have lunch, I guess, but

I don't know. I would appreciate that. I would lose my shit. Yes. And Kayla seems to, though she, you know, I never really got a chance

to know her as much, but she seemed really sweet. He loved, he definitely loved her, but it was quick. This is what I mean. Like, they weren't dating.

Like, I mean, look, I'm not going to put societal expectations on people because I hate them myself. But when I tell you, they just met and then they fell into this.

Like, I mean, within a span, we didn't even make it to the finals. So what I'm saying is that, like, within a span of six weeks. Wow. Right? So it just moved fast. And this is why people say, take your time. Listen, is that happened to my daughter?

No judgment, I suppose. But if it's my daughter, I'm grabbing her by the hair. I'm like, I don't think so. But what if she was pregnant, what are you going to do? That's a great question. That's exactly what happened. I don't think so. I don't think so.

But she wouldn't listen to me anyway. She's going to go try for some twins. Yes, exactly. I would just be very weary as and her ever moving that quickly. Right. But we live and learn and we can't control anybody. You can't control anyone, unfortunately. I've tried. So have I. So have I. Yeah, but it sounds like she's pissed. Yeah. He, Ryan, unilaterally pulled the children from school after sending him a message and then wouldn't answer. I guess he said, where are you? And she, he was, she said, where are you? And he wasn't answering. or send Kayla a message and said, I'm pulling them out. I mean, also, I think he cheated, right? I think no one's saying this in this article, but, like, I think this started it, which is not good. It's not okay.

And by the way, not good, but let's not forget, right? Like, let's just not forget. This is not just happening randomly. This is a reaction. But also, you know what? Like, this is what I always think that would be nice. If you had some respect for the marriage, if you had some respect for, like, you know, But you think men think like that?

I don't think you think like that. I agree. I think women, but I don't think a lot of times women do either because the anger is so overwhelming that you lose your shit. Yes, you lose your shit. You lose whatever you saw in the person originally that was good. And you, as opposed to saying, listen, we had this sacred thing or the sacred time. But it's very rare, right? I think that I have an answer.

Like, I have a solution is accountability and not ever. veering away from it. Believe me. Like it's it's when you don't and you gaslight the other person. That's when you create rage. And I think that if people in general, people take accountability, like literally follow the 12 step program, it would make this world we live in today so peaceful. Yeah. Yeah. No, I'm thinking through like if you're going through and you're so angry and the one party says, listen, I'm so sorry. Yes. like let's let me even if you don't want to go there like let me just say how sorry I am you know and how that would change the whole dynamic and probably very quickly right quick quick I mean

there would be no wars happening right out you know I swear yes I agree can you imagine like and by the way if it's just words who cares at that moment like just do it just say it like let your guard down arm the other person and then really like right find each other's humanity somehow Can you imagine? That is the solution. You know what? We need to be running the world. That's the fucking solution. Cheryl Burke and Jen Fisclone. Amen. Cheryl Burke for president, baby.

I'll be your advice. Sure. Yeah. Next lifetime. We have enough problems. Anyway, this is so great. I absolutely loved every minute of it. I love talking to you.

You're great. Me too. We're going to do it again. I can talk to you forever. And maybe we will. We're friends. Let's do it. Yes, we are friends now.

You're stuck with me. I hope that our listeners, you know, found this. not only interesting, but maybe even a little insightful and therapeutic. Like, we're all human. Yes, we're therapy, girls, amen. And while we don't wish divorce or heartbreak on anyone, we want anyone at home that might be going through it right now to know that you are not alone. And in general, take accountability. Take accountability. That's our message. That is our message. I'm going to tattoo it on my forehead. Ooh, I don't have a tattoo. I'd like it. I like it. Not me either.

I like it. Accountability. Accountability is king. It's a long word, though, but that's okay. Yeah, well, you don't have any tattoo. none love that I don't want one I don't either I don't like it I don't like no I'm so happy I don't have one yep me too but I am thinking about getting my ears pierced I only have your ears pierced you're so I do I do I have I have one no I had actually fun fact so random in eighth grade I was it was a dare and I pierced my own ear but then I closed up yeah oh yeah I've never been into a lot of piercings a lot of tattoos none of it I don't like it my mom got her eyeliner tattoo

She regrets it. Oh, I did do that. I did do that. And now it's green. And I have to go over. Absolutely true. Oh, my God. No.

No. You know, listen, I mean, if you need some advice and you're going through a difficult relationship ending, we want to help. So call, email us, all the infos in the show notes, follow us on socials. Make sure to rate and review the podcast. I do part two and I Heart Radio podcast where falling in love is the main objective. Cheryl Burke, I've fallen in love a little with you. I love you.

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