The Ben and Ashley I Almost Famous Podcast - Clayton Gives a Play-by-Play

Episode Date: March 8, 2023

Clayton Echard sticks around to help Ben recap this week’s episode of The Bachelor! Why didn’t Zach send Greer home WEEKS ago?? Clayton reveals that a contestant on his season wanted to be sent home, but he kept her around… and it backfired. Plus, Ben has a shocking revelation about Zach… does Clayton agree??See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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the things that you were meant to do. Listen to Therapy for Black Girls on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. This is the Ben and Ashley I almost famous podcast with IHartRadio. All right, Clayton, you and I are both sitting here. Ashley is not with us today. And so you and I have to really pull all our opinions out. You mentioned in our last episode as we caught up with you that you are going to kind

of twist and turn our perspective to be more positive towards these situations. I can't wait. We need that. Ashley and I, you know, we sometimes do get too critical because we, you know, that's where our opinions lie, isn't the critical pieces, not maybe in the positive. And so I'm really excited for this. But we open up this episode in Budapest. I thought it looked beautiful, Clayton.

Absolutely gorgeous. In fact, I don't do it very often when I watch the show. But the first scenes, I was like, whoa, this place looks amazing. Yeah, no, it was, of course, most places that. that the show goes are absolutely breathtaking, right? I mean, they know how to capture the scene, set the stage. And, you know, as a contestant or lead, you're walking amongst, you know, in this environment, you're thinking, man, how blessed am I?

How lucky am I to be in this environment? And it just puts you in this elevated, positive mood. And you just, you're happy with everyone that's around you. And you're like, let's all do this together. And I love this, and I want this to never end. And then it hits you that it does end here. soon and the numbers are dwindling and what started at 30 is now six uh and yeah that's that was where um as we saw in the episode last night uh and i think it's interesting to jump jump into

you start seeing a lot of people our individuals start to start to want like start to get a little nervous and a little maybe insecure and think this is an incredible environment this is awesome but like there's not many people around here anymore when i look around so things are getting real um and i think we saw a lot of the reality of what happens when things start getting serious. That was last night's episode. How are there so many perfect places to fall in love? In fact, every place we've been to this season has been the perfect place to fall in love. Is perfection that common?

Well, I feel like society expects perfection to be common, right? Like, we expect it at all points, especially on TV, right? Everyone wants to see the perfect date and have the individual say the perfect lines. It's just not real, though. It's not realistic. But, yeah, when you watch, like, all these environments where the cast and the lead go, I mean, how, again, I think you get overwhelmed by the environment that everything seems a little bit more elevated. Things seem a little bit more special.

And so, but then you realize, like, when this ends, this is all gone. so it's it's I think it's dangerous sometimes I'm like hey it'd be really nice to just fall in love in the supermarket because I can always return to a supermarket the next day right for the next 20 years of my life but can I can I return to these extravagant locations from the show no not so much no not at all well Greer's back she is quarantined successfully from COVID Brooklyn is ready to take the next step in their relationship she seems very excited for what is to come and obviously hometowns is next week so there is a lot in this episode it does feel pressure pack i'll kind of guide us through the opening here you know zach is is obviously feeling the pressure right i mean uh you were just there it's been years for me and so this pressure this week knowing that families are next week is it do you feel like there's you know more pressure to it or is it just another week in the process of trying to find your person well a thousand percent it's there's more

pressure to it. I mean, think in anyone that's listening to the real world application of this, usually going a couple of dates with somebody or maybe, I don't know, five, six, whatever it is, but then a big step in that relationship is, hey, I want you to meet my brother or sister. I want you to meet my family. That's a big, big step. So I think most people can relate to that. And that's where Zach, you know, his mindset is I'm going to be meeting some of these women's families and eventually they'll meet mine as well. But, you know, time is of the essence. And I think we got to see a glimpse of that with the Greer situation where, you know, and also with Zach, I mean, with COVID striking and having to quarantine, when time is everything and you have all these incredible people around you, but you're trying to get down to the nitty gritty and be like, who is really the person for me?

You need every waking moment. So I think we saw that first and foremost was that pressure build up. And I think Zach started to feel that in the episode where he thought, man, I need every moment, but I've been sidelined. And now I have another individual who's sidelined. How do I make this right decision? Am I going to make it off of a recency effect? The last person I saw that made me feel good or am I going to still, you know, am I going to be able to make this decision off of how I felt a week ago? But as you and I both know, man, a week in the bachelor world, a lot can happen with every single conversation.

So, you know, let's chat for a second about Greer. Obviously, in the episode, we see, you know, the Greer goes home. She quarantined, shows up, goes home. Are you surprised by this, shocked by this? Let's take production out of it and say, why in the world that Zach just not say, Greer, hey, you weren't making it two weeks ago or a week ago, you know? So don't come to Budapest or wherever you're hiding. It's not worth it for you.

Yeah. You know, my thought was based off of the, interaction when I saw them first two come back together, was that Zach was probably trying to see if that spark was still there. And so he, I think also maybe he felt that, hey, I got to give her a chance, right? I can't just say, oh, sorry, you got COVID, so now it's over. I think, you know, Zach had had a strong connection with her early on from what I recall and thought, you know, there's something here. There was something here. And I want to see if I see her again after not seeing for a week. What type of feeling am I going to have internally? And I can relate to that. I'm sure

you can too. I mean, I think about as hometowns, there was a weak lapse between, you know, between being out in Vienna Austria for me and then all sudden hometowns. And so I did really wonder, I was like, okay, not that I need to base all of it off this, but how am I going to feel when I first see this person again, right? Am I going to be just so giddy and jumping around and all that? Or am I going to just see them and go, hey, what's going on? And so I thought, my opinion that that's maybe what Zach was waiting to see if if I see her am I going to get giddy am I going to have this I really really missed you and based off of that initial feeling I will judge whether or not um that we we should move forward and I just think that they met up and I started seeing

it was like Zach was like you know what writing's on the wall I have these other connections and I just don't feel that we're on the same level which is what he what essentially what he said was I just have these it was implying I have these stronger connections well And let's just set the stage here, then, because obviously we're going to talk about Katie's 101. But let's set the stage for the things I've criticized Zach for. Some of the things the public has criticized Zach for, but also, you know, praise Zach for, right? So I don't know if I'm in the majority or minority on opinions on Zach. But his empathy to me seems lacking.

I don't think he's a bad dude. I don't think he's a bad bachelor. said that every episode. In fact, I do think, like you said, he is really concentrated on the connections, his feeling. And as soon as he doesn't feel something or doesn't know it's right, maybe that's what it looks like to us is he's just sending him home, right? There is a part of this episode that I did feel strongly that his lack of empathy was being displayed. And we'll get to that later on. But when it comes to these situations where he's waiting to see, see if there's that spark um if he's if maybe you know it feels like at times he to me um is leading

this with a strong and heavy hand meaning this is his experience and those women are just along for the ride and it's who he wants and who he's feeling and everybody else is going to go home uh you said you have some positive takes on this i would love to hear them uh so when i say these things um you disagree with me and i want to hear that why do you disagree with some of those takes so i won't say an essay disagree i just don't think we have a large enough sample size uh to really truly judge someone's character uh and this hits home for me because people said i lacked empathy and uh and it was true i did lack that empathy um i lacked him in the critical moments uh what i found though is i i didn't lack empathy in general um as a human

being but when I needed to be empathetic most in that environment I was not and so I try to look at it like knowing what I had what happened to me that when it comes to Zach did were there certain environment situations where he lacked maybe empathy in that critical moment yes I could say that yeah it looked it appeared that way but was he empathetic you know the rest of the time that we didn't maybe see he might have been extremely empathetic and we just didn't see that So the only thing that I just ask people to do and hesitate on is what you're seeing, again, might just be at the height at the moment when, like, yes, he needed to be, you know, that, but he wasn't. But that doesn't mean he lacks it altogether. It doesn't mean that if somebody acts a certain way loses their temper, that they're a person that has a temper, right?

Like, I see that a lot in the show. People will go, oh, he lost his cool. He's probably always like that. or the audience goes to the extreme. Red flag, he probably, you know, is abusive. And it's like off of one incident or maybe a culminate, two or three from the show. But I just, that's where I'm like, again, withhold that judgment because you don't really know if he was maybe empathetic a little before that interaction. And he just missed it in that moment.

So I don't disagree with you. I just feel that people are so quick to say, to draw conclusions. based off of limited experiences and that's that's where i i stand differently on that i i think with greer yeah i i she was very distraught obviously when he when he sent her home um but i think also too i don't know i can't speak for him but maybe he feels that like when i make a decision you know i i can't beat around the bush i just have to come out and say i don't want to drag this out um i'd be curious uh how you've approached you've approached you've approached that because I'm very similar that way. When I've made the decision, I'm willing to listen

and listen to be there for the woman, but I don't want to drag it out because I don't want them to feel that pain for longer. So how would you, I guess, of maybe approach a situation such as that differently? You get really good at breaking up with people on the show. I will say, or you get really good or really bad. Like you get either better over time or worse over time, whatever path you choose. I kind of went with the philosophy of like, let's rip the Band-Aid off. You know, I do think there's a thing where timing is everything and how you approach to break up.

You know, I never went with like the model of let's give all these compliments because they're true, right? I think Zach means it when he's like, you're a special person. You're very, you're incredible, says all these things. And he's like, but I'm not feeling it. You need to go home. I never went with that approach because it felt dishonest a little bit to me because if I thought they were that incredible. And if I thought like, I mean, I'm, I hope it's a given that I think

any human breathing on this earth is incredible in their own unique way. I hope that's a given. I hope it was a given during my season. But I just kind of went with, hey, like, we're not can, like this isn't working, right? And if you think it is, like, why do you think this is still working? Do you just really want to be around because it's cool? It'll be last longer on the show. Or do you really want to be around because you believe there's something here? And then just pretty much end it, right? I guess it was easy for me because a lot of times I felt like I was sending people home after conflict. And so it kind of was like obvious that, hey, this is no longer working. It really kind of backfired on me at the end, right? After I shared, you know, my emotions with two

people, that was where I think I really failed at how I ended it. So maybe I got worse over time. Might be the path I took. But, you know, I think. I agree with everything you're saying. I don't think it's ever fair. We always say on this show, it's really hard to dislike somebody once you get to meet them. And there's very few people that I've met on this show

that I would say, hey, I don't want to be around you ever again. There's a few. But it's very uncommon. Yeah. But as viewers of the show, and that's who listens to this podcast, hundreds of thousands of people that watch this show, which is a big portion of who watches the show still,

I think it's almost I would say I go back to you it's almost impossible not to form your opinions from the show because rightfully or not that's all you know and see and you're watching the show to be entertained and to

and I think it's a compliment to the characters to really like get to know them and to like really start to like understand them and there's been a trend

with Zach where you know in tough moments when somebody opens up about insecurity he says says, hey, we're gone. You're gone. I'm not feeling it anymore. And I think that's where the criticism lies, because that's all we know at this point about him. Like I would, I'm sure I'll meet Zach one day and I'll be like, hey, you're exactly who I thought you were. Right. Yes,

you're, you're tough on the outside. You're a big soft. You're a nice dude. You care. You're intentional. But all I know from the show, from what I'm watching, this small sample size is that like hey you kind of blotched it it felt like when things got hard yeah and i i get that right uh and i and i would say this i'm not telling people to not have any emotional reaction right i'm not saying oh you got to withhold all your emotion i just think that we go people go to the extremes right you know like drawing these conclusions that um and i think we'll discuss this later i know it happened last week but like his zoom call but to draw to to to to to to have that situation play out and then for people to say he seems like a terrible person he and uh i would

never want to date a man like that like these are the comments i saw online and i thought you know these are extremes like we need to have a emotional reaction but like let's not have let's not have let's not go to this this far to the left or right like i'm just saying can we bring it all together and can we hold accountability so that people don't feel it's okay to say these extremes because you know the the leads see those extremes and then we start to believe the extremes so It's more just me saying, like, I just think people need to hold themselves more accountable and others need to as far as let's not jump to the extremes. You can have an emotional reaction, but let's just not go to that degree because I think that that's where I feel a lot of viewers, they get a little bit too emotional and they go absolutely berserk on social media. And that's what I have a problem with.

So, yeah, with that, though, I also think as well, I mean, I try to, having been the lead, I try to say, well, what what maybe Zach already made his mind up with this individual as far as like they're gonna I'm gonna send them home good point then they come to him and they and they they open up and they have a very vulnerable moment now you're in a predicament as the lead your thought is is okay they just really opened up to me and they were vulnerable so do I keep them now because if I send them home I look insensitive but I also already made my decision to send them home so now you're in a you're in a buying. And again, in the real world, if someone came to you and that, you might, you might give them, you might, you know, console them and you're like, I don't need to break out with them today. I can wait a few days. In this environment, you don't have the time. It's like, I got to give out roses tonight. And you came to me with something very vulnerable, but I already had made my mind to break up with you. So I need to console you, but I also, I have to send you home.

And that's where I think it can be viewed as insensitive. But to me, it's more a matter of, well, yeah, Zach, I mean, the only person you can ask is him. Like, did you already make your mind? mind it before that because if you did then what was said i mean you could have consoled them but you or you knew anyways like i have to send somebody home tonight and unfortunately i already made that decision that makes a lot of sense the extremes never welcome right you like the extremes are not helpful here but i think being like you know trying you know analyzing the situation is kind of fun and it's why people watch the show but then you're right like maybe he did all he make up his mind

and if that's the case like i think you and i would both say that's a positive that he is so decisive and who he knows he wants and he doesn't want because it's happened multiple times now. And maybe he just has the worst timing when it comes to when people are opening up to him than any bachelor ever because multiple times it's been in these moments of vulnerability. He's like, wait, I came into this knowing and preparing myself to say this isn't going to work. And now I have to balance that with the fact that you just laid your heart out to me. And this is not easy on either of us. well the first date is with katie it's a one-on-one i think since the beginning um you know katie's

definitely at the top of ashley and i's like um list for who he could end up with but she's kind of been sneaky like she hasn't been the biggest voice the most loud voice um or the place that maybe the connections have existed um the most within Lead us through this date, Clayton, kind of what you were seeing, what you experienced, where you think this will go. Yeah, so I tend to agree with you, with you too. I could just reading the screen and looking at their connections, she seems very comfortable and confident. In contrast to some of the other reactions I was seeing from the other women, and so I feel that she's in a spot where it appears she feels like she can authentically be herself. she's she's not outwardly at least struggling it looks like with any internal negative thoughts that

may be manifesting she just seems to be there incompetent and when the two of them were we're talking together at throughout the date and even at the night portion of the date it was you can just tell there's there's a ton of chemistry there and there's so much confidence um that they both they just seem like they can there's that aura i mean i almost thought i watched it and i was like this just seems like it's on another level. There's still time left, and these other women can make, you know, a push towards the end, but it just seemed like there was this, there was this different level and feeling between those two. And so, yeah, I think that's where she shines, is she's, you know, she's just in the moment with him.

And I think she feels very confident, and she's not questioning, you know, the other women that are around or where she stands in the equation. it just appears that she's very much just like, I'm focused on him and when I'm with him, that's all I see and I feel good with where we're at. And what did you think? What were your thoughts on those interactions? Yeah, you know, I thought the most telling moment was when Zat, you know,

when she's explaining her childhood and how difficult it was and probably how hard that was for her. Again, I always think of how difficult that has to be when there's cameras around and you're in a kind of an unfamiliar environment. and he's consoling her and he's like kind of whispering to her you know and he's telling her these things like hey it's okay like what i felt like he wanted to do there was be like girl i love you like it's really okay like i can't say this to you and i'm going to try to whisper it so nobody

can hear it but these mics are pretty good so they pick up on everything but like i felt like he at that moment and you're right i think it's a very special connection i think he wants to tell her more than what he feels like it's appropriate to tell her right now, which is probably very smart. But in that moment, I felt like he was like inside being like, I want to say this, I want to say this, I want to say this. And all I can say to you is, hey, I'm here. You're here. Like, we're good. We're going to be okay. So I felt like that was the moment where I was like, this, this is different than every other, you know, for as much as I would say he's maybe lack the empathy when he wants to break up with

somebody and again it might just be terrible timing every time this is like the reverse where it's like no when he really cares like he's leaning in um but he still is putting up boundaries because maybe it's not appropriate to say everything he's feeling right now well because you know that every word you say is going to be recorded and it's going to be put out there and uh and you feel you have to be cautious because this is the dynamic that i don't think many people that uh you know viewers of the show realize when you date multiple individuals unless anyone else has had experience of that i never dated multiple people at once um so but when you do that you realize that that word will travel back word word will get back to other individuals and so if i say this what is going to be the ramifications of making

this comment and i think i think you hit the nail on the head it definitely felt like he wanted to say more but he was his head at the same time thinking if i say this what is going to be the ramifications what are the other women that are still here, if it gets back to them that I said this, what is it going to do to those connections? And so this withholding is due to the external factors and the other people, you know, other individuals in the equation. And yeah, yeah, great, great pickup on that because when you say that, I think the same thing.

I'm like, yeah, I know he wanted to say more, but he was cautious because he thought this could end up if I say this and things change in the coming weeks yeah who who like then then am I going to have to answer to this down the road because he's watching the show right now with all of us right yeah as if he's with somebody they're watching it too so this is where he he probably in that moment's thinking if I say this you know this many months later that my if I'm with somebody this person could see it and then they're going to say well you didn't explain you didn't tell me about that so what's this about so I it's this it's it's I don't want to say calculated, but just cautious, yeah.

And you're right. I think you had that. Yeah, you have to kind of be both. You have to be a little calculated in what you say and don't say, and then you have to be cautious. Also, I always think it's interesting to watch this week's episode because what viewers don't know and see is that we're halfway through filming at this point.

And so Zach is also sitting there and the women are sitting there going, okay, we've been here a long time, it feels like, right? This has been a month of a journey. and we're only halfway through. Now, it does feel like we've really narrowed it down to only four women in hometown start, but hometowns is the second half of filming for the show. And so they all know there's a lot of time left.

And there's a lot of things that can happen in this amount of time. And now after hometowns, you start spending a lot of time, which each of the people left. And so there's also that in the back of your mind where you're like, hey, this feels like we're a long ways off from the beginning, but we're only halfway done. and like from a viewer's perspective we're like no there's down to four we only have

you know this many episodes left but these episodes now take longer to film and so there's a lot more time and a lot more dates and a lot more experiences so that's something back in mind too probably as a lead that's such a great point that needs to be emphasized is yes everyone from a if you look at it from a show number standpoint

you're like we're almost at the end of this whole journey but the reality is you're kind of at the halfway point in the from like from within that environment. You still have so much time left and now you have a fraction of the people left. So you feel that you have an infinite amount of time now, or not infinite, but so much more than you first did. And so you realize like so much can happen. So how I feel today, who knows two weeks from now, I know that it seems like we're tailing on the end of the season from a viewership standpoint. But yes, as the leading contestants, it's like now you're getting into like just

the halfway point. And it's really great to know that because that's the mindset you have. There's still so much time left, whereas everyone that's watching is saying, no, it's not. We've got three or four episodes left. You better hurry up and tell them you love them. It's like, again, there's different times occurring between the, from what the viewers are seeing versus what people that are within the environment are. So that's a really great point. Yeah. So then we move into the group date.

The group date is now magic. Last week, you know, we did a different form of magic. Magic was a conversation we had last week. It's cool. There's not a lot to me that happened during this group date. I don't know if you disagree, but I'd say one thing that came up for me was I never had a group date that I can remember so much emotion happening on.

I did have one in the Bahamas where I think I focused on my favorites more than everybody else and everybody kind of picked up on that. And I thought I was going to lose half the cast. during one evening which i had to that was very stressful um but that was emotion for a different reason this this group day for as goofy as i would say it is with the magic stuff it felt like women took it very serious and like really read into it yeah well okay so this is the thing i mean i don't know as as a viewer i was a little skeptical of the magician man i thought come on like is he actually putting the hearts on their hand is he actually getting the words that are in their head

I will say this. Let's just say that that was, in fact, very much reality. If this man was guessing the words that were in the heads of these women, which what they were writing on, there were very vulnerable words, right? They were, you could say, insecurities. So if that was, in fact, authentic, I would imagine if I was in that position as one of the women and I wrote my insecurity and I showed it or he said it and I showed it and then they matched up, that would just start a tailspend.

that would be a trigger and I'd be like oh my gosh how did he know this like I must be am I showing this and then I'd be thinking you know if I was one of the women I would be like is does Zach see this and if I don't figure this out now is it going to be over soon like my insecurity is out there and apparently it's this this magician figured it out so how like I would be just in this constant downward spiral from that point forward of oh my gosh I can't believe that this must be more apparent. I thought I was hiding it well. I didn't realize that this is so very apparent.

So that's what you saw, though. You saw, you know, Gabby had mentioned that she was kind of Gabby. Charity was another one. All of them, Kat, Kat's response, and I don't know if we want to dive into that one specifically, but all of them had these vulnerable moments. And then, of course, like, the date ends, but they're just starting, right? Their brains are just starting to go, oh, my gosh. like how did he know that is this affecting me is this why i can't you know get to that next

step um but now like you know and now zack's aware of it so how's he going to respond to it um and that puts a lot of pressure on him i think like katy i do kind of want to bring that up um they asked if if you know if uh you know the magician asked if if uh you know she was ready to have zach me and her family and she said yeah and then she said she kind of hesitated and goes well and then got very emotional. And as we saw later in the episode, it's like she was, you know,

she was bothered by the fact that she had now brought this up. And then it was like, okay, how's that going to feel about this now that I hesitated? That, you know, I was vulnerable, but now I'm,

you know, I'm questioning. And then I almost did walk away, but it wasn't because of our connection, it's just because it's been overwhelming. So that magician, oh, man, I mean,

just got into the heads of these, I guess maybe literally as he pulled out the words, but that just started the beginning of the tailspin of a lot of, I think, their insecurities. And so I think that's why he saw so much emotion because then it became this internal struggle with each of them. That might be it, right? And we won't know, but for the fun of the show,

let's assume that all this was very real and happening, like you said, it would freak me out. I don't think I would enjoy it. I think I might be emotional just based on the fact that this was freaky this is weird um but you know it did for is maybe goofy or is weird or whatever we want to say it did bring out emotion which i do think is helpful in this experience and then we have the after party um where you know we already talked about greer that's already

you know a thing that we've discussed um but there there seems to be this now disconnect with cat who has always been at the top of my board when it comes to who I thought he'd end up with at the end. It feels like this whole episode, she's telling him, hey, I'm in it for you, but this is hard for me. And he just doesn't feel to be reciprocating those same feelings any longer, which is weird for me. I really thought that he was, like, obsessed with her.

Yeah. Well, again, I know that I can speak on this, and I don't know if you want to. again to go back in that situation because you know with you being with somebody it's a little bit different to go back and recount but um what i can say is like i think you can start off out the gate with really really strong connections and then over time some people just take a little longer to warm up but then they start picking up steam and then they you're like wow i really like this person they were just um you know maybe they didn't come out the gates firing but now i'm getting to know them and it's starting to i'm really starting to like to like what i see and that's that's what i got from the

impression with Kat was she came out at the gate's hot, right? And they had this very strong connection, but then maybe some intimate women were more reserved. They started to let down their walls. And that's where I think Zach was like, okay, I was able to get through to this person quicker, but now I'm seeing this person. I really like what I'm seeing. So that's, I just think that's where the steam ran out with Kat was, is that he really loved what he saw, but then others started show their true selves and then he just that that gap started to close and eventually got beyond that so um i i can attest to that there were plenty like i mean again yeah you look at like first impression roses you know for me it's like i had a first impression rose gave to teddy

and then um it just flamed out towards the end because i just started to see more of everybody else and i thought okay like i didn't see this night one but i see it now two three weeks out so that's just what can happen in that environment and i think that's where zack's making these constant decisions every time he's in these environments of yeah do i still feel this way about her but i think they lost that spark yeah i can relate with that i think more for me uh i think i had it both right like people that i didn't even really know where on my season for the first two weeks somehow on week five i'm like wow this is great this is working out and then people that i really maybe noticed on night one uh within a few weeks i was like maybe we don't have what i thought we had

So I get that. But I'm still surprised by it because I did think Cat was somebody if I, I think I made a bet with Ashley, actually, about Cap that she would be there in the final three. I'm going to lose that bet now. I was going to say, what did you bet? I don't, I think five bucks. Or man, don't, don't ever put too much on it. Yeah.

My boyfriend's professor is way too friendly and now I'm seriously suspicious. Well, wait a minute, Sam. Maybe her boyfriend's just looking for extra credit. Well, Dakota, it's back to school week on the OK Storytime podcast, so we'll find out soon. This person writes, my boyfriend has been hanging out with his young professor a lot. He doesn't think it's a problem, but I don't trust her. Now, he's insisting we get to know each other, but I just want her gone. Now, hold up. Isn't that against school policy? That sounds totally inappropriate. Well, according to this person, this is her boyfriend's former professor, and they're the same age.

And it's even more likely that they're cheating. He insists there's nothing between them. I mean, do you believe him? Well, he's certainly trying to get this person to believe him because he now wants them both to meet. So, do we find out if this person's boyfriend really cheated with his professor or not? To hear the explosive finale, listen to the OK Storytime podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

Hi, my name is Enya Umanzor. And I'm Drew Phillips. And we run a podcast called Emergency Intercom. If you're a crime junkie and you love crimes, we're not the podcast for you. But if you have unmedicated ADHD... Oh my God, perfect. And want to hear people with mental illness, psychobabble. Yes, yes.

Then Emergency Intercom is the podcast for you. Open your free IHeartRadio app. Search Emergency Intercom and listen now. My name is Ed. Everyone say hello, Ed. Hello, Ed. I'm from a very rural background myself. My dad is a farmer.

And my mom is a cousin. So, like, it's not like... What do you get when a true crime producer walks into a comedy club? I know it sounds like the start of a bad joke, but that really was my reality nine years ago. I just normally do straight stand-up, but this is a bit different. On stage stood a comedian with a story that no one expected to hear. The 22nd of July 2015, a 23-year-old man had killed his family. And then he came to my house.

So what do you get when a true crime producer walks into a. a comedy club. A new podcast called Wisecrack, where stand-up comedy and murder takes center stage. Available now. Listen to Wisecrack on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Have you ever wished for a change but weren't sure how to make it? Maybe you felt stuck in a job, a place, or even a relationship. I'm Emily Tish Sussman, and on she pivots, I dive into the inspiring pivots of women who have taken big leaps in their lives and careers. I'm

Gretchen Whitmer, Jody Sweeten, Monica Patton, Elaine Welteroff. I'm Jessica Voss. And that's when I was like, I got to go. I don't know how, but that kicked off the pivot of how to make the transition. Learn how to get comfortable pivoting because your life is going to be full of them. Every episode

gets real about the why behind these changes and gives you the inspiration and maybe the push to make your next pivot. Listen to these women and more on she pivots now on the iHeart radio app apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts okay so we'll move into the part of this episode that i thought was just really weird clayton i thought it was very odd the brooklyn one-on-one day okay gabby gets the group date rose from that group date she's going to be around for next week um not a shock really to anybody but

now we move into Brooklyn one-on-one. Walk us through this date. Well, I'm curious what you thought was weird about it, because I thought it was a cute date. You know, they start off riding bikes and are going around the city, and it seemed like it was just a nice, carefree, fun date. They both seemed to be vibed well. You know, then they go to the bathhouse.

It seemed like a lot of bathing going on in this episode. Yeah. Very clean. Maybe they're trying to cleanse themselves. of spells and the magic and all that, but, um, or, or a prep, yeah, so they'd before fancy suites or hometowns, whatever. So, um, but they go in that, they meet the couple in the, in the bath, um, yeah, I was it, I was it, it's called a bath house. Yeah, bad house. Okay. Um, and so they meet the couple and, uh, and they had a nice little playful interaction as they're, as they

were sitting there talking and then, um, and then they went off on their own a little bit. And I, I thought it was, I guess not weird. I don't know. It seemed pretty par for the course. I mean, I'm curious when you say weird, what did you pick up on it? Because I thought there was chemistry there. Again, I think this just comes down to, it was probably a little bit too late, a little too late. And I think Zach really liked Brooklyn a lot, but just was looking for that extra, wow, or

this is going to change the way I feel. And early on in the date, you see it seems like there's a lot of, you know, you know, You know, there's a lot of chemistry. And then all of a sudden you get to the end, you're like, whoa, what happened to all the chemistry? Well, I think, again, decision D-day came around the corner. But what did you see? Because you're saying that you were a little, it was a little off. So what did you pick up on?

Well, I'm with you where the date portion seemed fine. Those, I even kind of skim through those that like morning, like portion of one-on-ones just because I'm more interested in the conversation that will happen in the evening because they're fun and they're fine. There is chemistry. And they look like they're having a good time together. I am interested this season where, like, the producer said, let's bathe so often.

And then also let's connect them in the bathing situations with people who are, like, older and wiser and have been through stuff together. That must have been the theme this season is to just implement Zach with as much wisdom and, like, insight as possible. Yeah, I guess they're baptizing them or something. Yeah, they're cleansing him. of all his wrongdoings but or you know but i think going back to i think it was the evening

portion that was confusing to me because if we go back to the perspective that that zach has been very decisive and who and why he's sending people home and he's doing it you know because he's keeping the connections he has then are we saying that he knew going into this one-on-one with Brooklyn that this was going to end this way um and if if it's not that and you and I want to know like do leads go on these one-on-one saying hey this is kind of a make or break in my mind like I'm asking this person go on a one-on-one at this specific moment in this time because if it's not like it's good and it's fine but it's not great yet and maybe this one-on-one can change that and if it's not then you know this is my way of telling them

goodbye at the end for my perspective I did that once where I had somebody on one-on-one kind of feeling that way and I just we had had such a good time together that I wanted to do it in a one-on-one more than I wanted to do it at a rose ceremony I guess I thought maybe like it would just be a more respectful way to do it but did you ever do that is this common well I was gonna say just to jog my memory did he got emotionally when he sent Brooklyn home right he did yeah he did he got flustered I would say like emotional and like flustered he he had to take a breath which is where I think for me, the weirdest part of the whole thing happened where he got up and walked away from the table in the midst of a very heavy, a very like vulnerable moment. He said, I need to get a breath. And then he came back and like, I just felt like that was weird, Clayton. Like, I don't know about you. But when somebody's opening up to you on this, on this show in these moments, like you and I don't have the right or ability to get up from that table. Like even if we have to send them home, like a breath is not something that we are privy to. to you have to either lean in and be like hey let's like think like i don't know like i appreciate

hearing all this and i know like this was hard for you to do on national television um but i'm going to sit here with you right now and say as much as i respect you as a person this relationship isn't feeling what i thought it was it just felt sudden odd and like out of nowhere to me yeah so i think what happened was zach started having second guesses with brooklyn i think i think i think Jack, just my opinion, I think Zach came into it and thought, I kind of already had my mind made up with who, who's going to hometowns. Because again, like, I don't think, and you can attest this, going to hometowns, I knew almost, I was almost positive who the four would be, but there was, I was a little hesitant

with like the last, the last two individuals. And so I was, I did have a decision to make that week as far as, okay, I know these, these two are going to definitely be there, but what about the third. individual. I don't know. And so what I think happened was Zach went into that date thinking I'm going to have fun with her, but like I'm not, it's just there's not enough here. And we're going to, you know, have to move on. And then what happened, I think, is he started to second guess and and stepped aside and thought, I don't know. Like, maybe I do want her to go to hometowns. But then he steps aside. And of course, you can't say this to her, but he probably step aside and think, okay, now if I'm if I'm second guessing and

she's going to make it to hometowns then who's not going to make it to hometowns now so i had this list the on this these these these four individuals now i'm i might plug her in to who am i going to pull out uh of of that spot so that's what i think might have happened to him um and i'd love to hear you know if you had a similar situation i did uh between bringing um whether i was going to bring serene to um you know or to hometown or no sorry i'm going on i'm a week ahead here um Whether I was going to, I think it was between Teddy and Eliza, to bring them to, like, my hometowns, it was, it was, I was back and forth between do I bring one of those two and some in my, in my final four I don't bring. And you start to realize, like, some of these individuals, I would be proud to, like, meet their family and have them meet mine. So it can become overwhelming as you get in this situation.

And standing in front me right now, I can see a future with you, but I have other people involved. I think he just had second guesses. And that's where he heard. So I know because I felt that similarly. But did you ever have that? Or did you feel that, yeah, you went into it and you're like, I know this is where I'm at with each of these people. And after the date, your opinion was validated.

Or did you ever have those moments where the date caused you to make a 180 and flip the script? Sure, make a 180 and flip the script. Definitely. Dates, one-on-ones especially were always big for me. I think with this situation, and I could be, you know, it was, it never happened to me in my life where I've gone on a date and somebody's been vulnerable with me about like real life stuff. And that's like made me less confident in my relationship with them. and it felt like here and she's opening up and telling him all these things and if he had any questions in his mind in my mind i'm going if i was at all interested in this girl romantically her telling me her life story and the way that she is would make me feel even closer to her

because she obviously cares to share this with me and so i'm just confused on at what point during this conversation something hit his head where he's like yeah i'm not into this anymore like this the script has changed and now i'm less confident in our relationship than i was before because all she's doing is deeply expressing the pains and the struggles of her childhood and what's led her to where she's at today and then all of a sudden he goes i need a breath comes back and breaks up with her and i'm going that never happened that's never happened to me on the show or in real life yeah i i think i was people had kind of called me out for doing things similar so i guess i can speak to this a little bit um maybe i don't know if you want to call yeah

lack of empathy uh i i think what what it ends up happening what happened in my mind in those moments when someone shared something and people go he's not crying or he's not consoling them he seems cold uh you know why is this it's because you know i'd either already felt that pain like i'd already live that as far as like the breakup i'd already live that experience like i'd I had struggled behind closed doors and was like, I already made this decision in my head, so I already felt this pain. So you didn't, so because I had to make this decision because there's other people here. And so these, the individuals I want to move forward with, this person, I can't.

So there's this closing off and shutting down. And it's not, it's something that, again, I think, is it a lack of maturity? I don't know. It depends on the individual. But for me, it was lack of maturity. But you, when you make this decision, you shut down. you go okay i made my decision and i can't allow myself to be emotional because i may make it an emotional based decision and rationally speaking i've made this decision to um end things with this

person so i i i have to shut down the emotion i have to just cut it off right here i cannot allow it to drag on um and and and i think that's that's again me giving the benefit of the doubt uh to zach and and it's of course like his whatever he says is what i would i would choose to believe as far as how he reacted but my thought is that he was like I just made this decision and like I'm getting to emotionally invested and I have to protect myself because I'm afraid I could make an emotional based decision and maybe possibly keep her around or like get tied up and then give her a rose and now all of a sudden okay if I give her rose in this moment out of emotion now what about the other people that I already made a decision on I just it's just never cut and dry I guess I don't I know

that's my thought is maybe he just felt like I have to shut this down and he closed off and was like this is done this is over and yes he could have been more consoling and and could have been more caring um but sometimes i think we's maybe i don't i can say just as men but sometimes we can just shut down and when it's done it's done and we're just we just are like i have to this is it like i don't want to open this back up i think it goes to our two points one i might think that zach has the worst timing not to his fault i think he just has like like there's many situations now or either his timing and like how people are expressing themselves to him and when he's already decided what's going to happen might be the worst I've ever seen on this show like he might

just be getting like I bet he's laying in bed at night because I remember these thoughts being like goodness gracious like I can't seem to like catch a break here like every time I've made up my mind which is hard to do in itself to send somebody home that you respect and care about they're also using that time to like really pour themselves out to about their life and then I have to end it like send them home like that i'm guessing at some point and maybe when we get them on the podcast i can ask them like how many nights did you spend going goodness i can't catch a break like this there's not been one easy one here well and too i'll say this that something just popped up my head there was somebody that opened up on the show uh to me

they got very vulnerable i was going to send them home that night but i didn't because they got very emotional and vulnerable and I was like I cannot send them home right now I'm going to keep them a little while longer and that came back to bite me they ended up uh stirring up some drama in the house uh they ended up um like I also just was like my opinion my my feelings on them didn't change I still was like I need to send them home so it wasn't fair to to keep them longer um and so this is this is what happens where it's like I mean I did I kept somebody around okay I'm gonna hold on to them because I can't I can't break things off right now as they're

opening up to me. What ended up happening? I kept them around longer. It kind of backfired. They started to stir up to drama in the house. And then I also just kept them around knowing I was going to send them home. My feelings didn't change and that's not fair to that person, right? To just like make them think, oh, I said another night

there's a chance when it's like, no, I kept you because I didn't want to like as you're opening up to me to say, oh, well, thank you for sharing that and I feel you feel for you, but I can't give you this rose. It's just like a really weird, a hard environment because again, in the real world,

you could just maybe wait a few days and pass up. But in this environment, it's like you've got other people involved. So, okay, if you keep this person around, what's going to be the, what's the cost, right? What's the cost to doing that?

Yeah, well, either way, it's a shocking breakup. You know, no matter how you look at it, it came out of nowhere. It was surprising. And so we end this episode, Clayton,

um, with Ariel, Abby, Katie, Charity, keeping roses, going to hometowns. Cat is asked to go home. Again, we've already talked about kind of how I feel about that. That is shocking. It is emotional.

It was unexpected. My boyfriend's professor is way too friendly, and now I'm seriously suspicious. Wait a minute, Sam. Maybe her boyfriend's just looking for extra credit. Well, Dakota, it's back to school week on the OK story. right time podcast. So we'll find out soon. This person writes, my boyfriend has been hanging out with his young professor a lot. He doesn't think it's a problem, but I don't trust her. Now he's insisting we get to know each other, but I just want her gone. Now hold up. Isn't that against

school policy? That sounds totally inappropriate. Well, according to this person, this is her boyfriend's former professor and they're the same age. And it's even more likely that they're cheating. He insists there's nothing between them. I mean, do you believe him? Well, he's certainly trying to get this person to believe him because he now wants them both to meet. So, Do we find out if this person's boyfriend really cheated with his professor or not? To hear the explosive finale, listen to the OK Storytime podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Hi, my name is Enya Umanzor. And I'm Drew Phillips.

And we run a podcast called Emergency Intercom. If you're a crime junkie and you love crimes, we're not the podcast for you. But if you have unmedicated ADHD... Oh my God, perfect. And want to hear people with mental illness, psychobabble. Yes, yes. Then Emergency Intercom is the podcast for you. Open your free IHeartRadio app.

Search Emergency Intercom and listen now. My name is Ed. Everyone say hello, Ed. Hello, Ed. I'm from a very rural background myself. My dad is a farmer and my mom is a cousin. So, like, it's not like... What do you get when a true crime producer walks into a comedy club?

I know it sounds like the start of a bad joke, but that really was my reality nine. years ago. I just normally do straight stand-up, but this is a bit different. On stage stood a comedian with a story that no one expected to hear. On 22nd of July 2015, a 23-year-old man had killed his family. And then he came to my house. So what do you get when a true crime producer walks into a comedy club? A new podcast called Wisecrack. where stand-up comedy and murder takes center stage. Available now.

Listen to Wisecrack on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Have you ever wished for a change but weren't sure how to make it? Maybe you felt stuck in a job, a place, or even a relationship. I'm Emily Tish Sussman, and on she pivots, I dive into the inspiring pivots of women who have taken big leaps in their lives and careers. I'm Gretchen Whitmer, Jody Sweeten. Monica Patton. Elaine Welteroff. I'm Jessica Voss. And that's when I was like, I gotta go. I don't know how, but that kicked off the pivot of how to make the transition. Learn how to get comfortable pivoting because your life is going to be full of them.

Every episode gets real about the why behind these changes and gives you the inspiration and maybe the push to make your next pivot. Listen to these women and more on She Pivots, now on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Clayton, we have headlines to break down. And so let's jump into those now. But before we do, do you have a, let's say now, because there's only four left, a top two that you really think will be there at the end for Zach. And then I want to know who do you think will be the next Bachelorette? What season are you going to go on?

Nobody wants me to come back. That'll be a jump scare. They see my head pop out the limo and be like round, round three. Third time's a charm, baby. Let's do it. So I think Katie is in there, no doubt. I'm going to say Katie Gabby. I think those two are definitely, I think those are the final two.

It just survives I got, I think. And so we'll see, I guess. If I'm wrong, wouldn't be the first time. So what's your final two? I would say you're spot on. um i don't know i might abby um in charity are right up there together with me like i think i think they're the i think they're the three right now with katy that i'd say could be there then i think cat's the next bachelorette i think it's i think it's very clear to me that she will

be the next bachelor's i bet they announce her very soon um okay i guess you're just not yeah you're not paying attention to or you're not looking at all the chatter online and other certain people that think Other people may be it. I've heard it could be possibly charity, but I don't know. Well, we don't know if she's gone or not. She might be with Zad. So I can't even put her in the mix. You're right.

You're right. You're right. Yeah. I don't know. I guess, yeah, one thing is for sure is you can't trust what you see online. And I think in these final four, I could see any of them buying for that spot. So who knows? I guess we just, I'll just wait and see as opposed to just spout my mouth off.

Well, for who we know has been not with Zach at this point, because I don't know and I don't read spoilers because that makes this show and this job very hard to not say things that are, that I know already. I think Kat has to be up there and then we'll see how the weeks go on. Well, we're jumping in the headlines. The first headline is about you, Clayton. We've already talked about it in our previous episode, catching up with you about your time with Rachel and being with her and the almost famous family in California. It's great to have you there. It's a lot of fun. Thanks for doing it.

And if you want to read about Zach's or about Clayton's time with Rachel, you can go back and listen to the last episode. But our next headline is about our current bachelor, Zach. Zach responded to all the backlash over that tense Zoom date with Greer. Now, we spoke a little bit about his relationship with Greer. This is what Zach says, Clayton. Watching it back, I completely empathize. with her, Zach said, I think she was really just trying to connect and relate with me when I had COVID. And really, I was just already frustrated with everything kind of, you know,

going on. You know, I definitely could have delivered my sentiment in a lot more of a respectful way in a calmer way. It was just one of those conversations that was just off. No excuse, he says, I should have responded better. So I totally, totally 100% get where she's coming from. What do you think of that? I think, you know, based off of his response right there, I can forgive him for that and say, hey, like, that's, that seems like a sincere apology. And I agree with what he said. He could have done it better. He could have. He, I think she was trying to relate to him and he kind of, you know, minimized her, her feelings in that moment of saying, you know, what you're going through is what I'm going through at all. But again, I also think that, you know, he was, he had COVID. He was away from the

women. He was probably stressing out of I'm losing time and I need this time to be able to find my person. And so I think he let his emotions just get a little bit involved and interject. In a high pressure environment, again, like I see, I can see that. That's where it got the best of him. I think he could have handled it better. But he said that as well. So my thought is, all right, Zach, you felt you could handle it better. You said that. You watched it back. You see where she's coming from and you realize where you made a mistake. All right, forgiven. simple. So that's how I feel about it. But what do you? I don't know. What are your thoughts on that? Yeah. I think it's always good to admit when you're wrong. Well, Clayton, I've never made this a

secret on this show. I have a job that I really want. I've never asked for a job from the show. I've never begged for a job from the show, but I've been asking now for two years for this job. I think it would be my dream job. I never knew I wanted it. But here's the headline. Sexy seniors look for TV love. Everything to know about the bachelor's senior spin. off. The ABC reality show will feature older lovers for the first time. Here's the article. It says this. This is not my own words. Pack the Bingay and Little Blue Pills. The Bachelor producer, Mike Fleiss announced via Twitter that the long awaited, long awaited, two years. I've been saying, Clayton, please, ABC, just give me an interview. Like, I would love this show.

I would love to just be a part of it. Like, I'll be the guy to pass out Bingay and Blue Pills. I just want to be around. I'm not asking you to host it. That's a big ass. I just want to be there. The Golden Bachelor is coming, he tweeted. So, you know, we've been waiting for this. Mike Fleiss has been teasing this.

As I said, for a long time. Sounds like it's actually happening, which is very exciting. So we don't need to go too much into detail on this. It's just now feeling like more official than ever. It sounds like something I want to be a part of and beyond. Are you excited will you watch a senior bachelor dating show? I think it would be fun because individuals at that stage of their life, they've lived a lot of life.

They've had a lot of experiences. They've learned their strengths. There's their weaknesses. And more than ever, they're not finding themselves. They've probably found themselves. I'm not saying like they've all got to figure it out. But currently you have a lot of individuals that are in their early to late 20s that are still figuring out what they want in life. And so I don't think you'll have that dynamic instead you'll have someone that really knows what they want.

They got no time to BS, you know, around, beat around the bush. They're like, hey, I'm here and I'm ready for it. And so I think that'd be exciting because it'd be a different dynamic. I mean, gone would be the days of, yeah, we wouldn't have to question if people were there for the wrong reasons. Because I don't know of many, you know, seniors that are looking to be Instagram. influencers but uh you know i think that that wouldn't be a dynamic but it'd be fun to watch and um i know that they'll bring on some some some you know probably really fun personalities and they had someone pop out on my my limo and she she came out and she was like i'm i'm not actually

here for you they tease it then she got i was like you don't got to get back in the limbo hold on now let's let's let's a shot i saw she was 63 i said where i said hold on i like you can stick around i like i like older women so uh no i think it would be a fun show um And there'd be so many different dynamics of play that we haven't seen because individuals at that stage of their life just, I think, operate a little bit differently than individuals in the early 20s to mid-20s. So it would be fun. And I probably would tune in. Yeah, I'm pumped. I think it's going to be the greatest show ever.

I think there's so much to this that I would love. So we'll see if it happens. It's being teased to happen. Clayton, that's all we got today. Thank you again for doing two episodes with us this week. Obviously, episode one is catching up with you. episode two we're breaking down this week's episode of the bachelor come back soon filling anytime it's been a blast getting to talk to you and getting your opinion

it means a lot that you took this time to do this uh here's how we close out every episode clayton so just follow my lead this has been another episode of the almost famous podcast until next time i've been ben i've been clayton great job buddy I, Almost Famous Podcasts on IHartRadio or subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts. Hi, my name is Enya Umanzor. And I'm Drew Phillips. And we run a podcast called Emergency Intercom. If you're a crime junkie and you love crimes, we're not the podcast for you.

But if you have unmedicated ADHD... Oh my God, perfect. And want to hear people with mental illness, psychobabble. Yes, yes. Then Emergency Intercom is the podcast for you. Open your free IHeartRadio app. Search Emergency Intercom and listen now. Just like great shoes, great books take you places.

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