The Ben and Ashley I Almost Famous Podcast - Clayton Tells All

Episode Date: March 9, 2022

 Clayton Echard is in the hot seat and Ben & Ashley ask him EVERYTHING you’re thinking. There’s no holding back as we confront him about why he handled things the way that he did, and what that means for his future as The Bachelor. You do not want to miss this raw and real conversation that will completely change the way you see Clayton.  Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. My boyfriend's professor is way too friendly, and now I'm seriously suspicious. Wait a minute, Sam. Maybe her boyfriend's just looking for extra credit. Well, Dakota, luckily, it's back to school week on the OK Storytime podcast, so we'll find out soon. This person writes, my boyfriend's been hanging out with his young professor a lot. He doesn't think it's a problem, but I don't trust her. Now he's insisting we get to know each other, but I just want her gone.

Hold up. Isn't that against school policy? That seems inappropriate. Maybe find out how it ends by listening to the OK Storytime podcast and the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, my name is Enya Umanzor. And I'm Drew Phillips. And we run a podcast called Emergency Intercom. If you're a crime junkie and you love crimes, we're not the podcast for you. But if you have unmedicated ADHD... Oh, my God, perfect.

And want to hear people with mental illness, psychobabble. Yes, yes. Then Emergency Intercom is the podcast for you. Open your free IHeartRadio app. Search Emergency Intercom and listen now. Every case that is a cold case that has DNA. Right now in a backlog will be identified in our lifetime. On the new podcast, America's Crime Lab, every case has a story to tell.

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And people just like us. I'm Lola Blanc. And I'm Megan Elizabeth. We're the host of Trust Me, a podcast about cults, manipulation, and the psychology of belief. Each week we talk to fellow survivors, former believers, and experts to understand why people get pulled in and how they get out. New episodes every Wednesday on exactly right. Listen wherever you get your podcasts. The Super Secret Bestie Club podcast season four is here. And we're locked in.

That means more juicy chisement. Terrible love advice. Evil spells to cast on your ex. No, no, no, no. We're not doing that this season. Oh. Well, this season, we're leveling up. Each episode will feature a special bestie,

and you're not going to want to miss it. My name is Curley. And I'm Maya. Get in here. Listen to the Super Secret Bestie Club on the IHartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. This is the Ben and Ashley I, almost famous podcast with IHartRadio. Ashley, it's a big day for us. It's a tough day for our guest, but a big day for us.

Oh, my gosh, big, big day. Gonna be honest, a little nervous for this interview. Are you? Yeah, you know, because I don't. don't know what to expect from this guy anymore. And this guy that I refer to is Clayton. Clayton is here with us today. Clayton is joining us today to do a sit down. We're going to talk to him about everything going on in the show. Obviously, it's been a, well, let's get his opinion, I guess. I don't want to put words into his mouth. I'm assuming it's been a tough couple months. One of the

hardest rides as a lead i can remember uh meaning from really start to finish it hasn't felt like um there is a ton of team colton or she's team clayton we switch spots gosh dang it um you know and so i want to talk to him about i want to hear how he's holding up because that was always important when it comes to a human is it's like you know nobody here wants anybody to like hurt. However... No. We want them to learn their lesson. Yeah, but being held accountable is definitely something that's necessary. And so let's hold Clayton accountable for the things he's done throughout the season and especially the conversation with Susie. We'll get his thoughts here in just a

second. Ashley, let's take a break. Let's get a glass of water. Come back and let's talk to Clayton. My boyfriend's professor is way too frustrated. and now I'm seriously suspicious. Wait a minute, Sam, maybe her boyfriend's just looking for extra credit. Well, Dakota, it's back to school week on the OK Storytime podcast, so we'll find out soon. This person writes, my boyfriend has been hanging out with his young professor a lot. He doesn't think it's a problem, but I don't trust her. Now, he's insisting we get to know each other, but I just want her gone.

Now, hold up. Isn't that against school policy? That sounds totally inappropriate. Well, according to this person, this is her boyfriend's former professor and they're the same age. And it's even more likely that they're cheating. He insists there's nothing between them. I mean, do you believe him? Well, he's certainly trying to get this person to believe him

because he now wants them both to meet. So, do we find out if this person's boyfriend really cheated with his professor or not? To hear the explosive finale, listen to the OK Storytime podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Hi, my name is Enya Yumanzor. And I'm Drew Phillips. And we run a podcast called Emergency Intercom. If you're a crime junkie and you love crimes, We're not the podcast for you.

But if you have unmedicated ADHD... Oh my God, perfect. And want to hear people with mental illness, psychobabble. Yes, yes. Then Emergency Intercom is the podcast for you. Open your free IHeartRadio app. Search Emergency Intercom and listen now. Hey, sis.

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starting with your local credit union, shopping around online, looking for some online lenders because they tend to have fewer fees and be more affordable. Listen, I am not here to judge. It is so expensive in these streets. I 100% can see how in just a few months, months, you can have this much credit card debt when it weighs on you. It's really easy to just stick your head in the sand. It's nice and dark in the sand. Even if it's scary, it's not going to go away just because you're avoiding it. And in fact, it may get even worse. For more judgment-free

money advice, listen to Brown Ambition on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Your entire identity has been fabricated. Your beloved brother goes missing without a trace. You discover the depths of your mother's illness, the way it has echoed and reverberated throughout your life, impacting your very legacy. Hi, I'm Danny Shapiro, and these are just a few of the profound and powerful stories I'll be mining on our 12th season of Family Secrets. With over 37 million downloads, we continue to be moved and inspired by our guests and their courageously told stories. I can't wait to share 10 powerful new episodes with you, stories of 10,

up identities, concealed truths, and the way in which family secrets almost always need to be told. I hope you'll join me and my extraordinary guests for this new season of family secrets. Listen to Family Secrets, Season 12 on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The Super Secret Festi Club podcast season four is here. And we're locked in. That means more juicy chisement. Terrible love advice.

Evil spells to cast on your ex. No, no, no, no, we're not doing that this season. Oh, well, this season, we're leveling up. Each episode will feature a special bestie, and you're not going to want to miss it. Get in here! Today we have a very special guest with us. Our new super secret bestie is The Deva of the People. The Deva of the People.

I'm just like, text your ex. My theory is that if you need to figure out that the stove is hot, go and touch it. Go and figure it out for yourself. That's us. Where in the head? That's us. My name is Curley. And I'm Maya.

In each episode, we'll talk about love, friendship, heart breaks, men, and, of course, our favorite secrets. Listen to the Super Secret Bestie Club as a part of the Michael Tura podcast network available on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. All right. Well, Clayton is on the line. how do you feel today you can give us as many words as you need to describe your feelings yeah i mean i'm as i mean woke up with a pounding headache just stressed out i'm embarrassed uh i knew that this moment was coming i'd kind of alluded to it previous weeks and so yeah i'm not exactly shocked by the reactions online, although it appears that, yeah, I mean, it's heavily people are very much

against me and favoring her, but I totally understand now. I totally get what I'm seeing. And I think that it's, yeah, I mean, I'm embarrassed. I wish that I could have seen her side in that moment. And I just didn't, in that moment, I didn't see her side. I didn't want to see her side because I knew if I saw her side and accepted it, that it was, it was definitely. was the end of it right then and there. And so I know we'll jump in this and I have a million thoughts already. I'm like, here we go. I'm already starting to ramble. But I just, there's so much that I wish that I would have done differently. And I wish I could have seen her side. But I was, when she dropped that news on me, I just was crushed watching this person that I thought I may get

engaged to essentially say, hey, I'm done and it's over. And there's nothing you can do. And that just my emotions overcame me. And that's what everyone saw. But essentially, but essentially you were the one to tell her to leave. I mean, yes and no. I know that, again, from what people saw, she said, you know, hey, I can't look past this. And then multiple times in that conversation, I asked, like, can we work past us? And she just said, you know, no, I can't.

I'm not able to. And so at that point, I realized that there's no more reason for us to talk. Like, I have tried, I've asked three or four times to work through this. If we can get past this. can we take some time off camera and talk this through? And she said, no, no, I don't think it's going to change anything. And so at that point, I felt that there was no reason to keep it going. And that's when I said, listen, there's no, we're not getting anywhere.

My emotions, I knew were getting the best to me. That's why I told him, like, I apologize for raising my voice. And I knew that it wasn't productive any longer. It was too emotional. And I had to step away. Unfortunately, this is in a conversation where you can step away and revisit the next day. because it's the show it's like once she's gone it's gone she's done and that's it and I just I knew I was not and I go to headspace at that place and I had to just stop the conversation from

continuing you you say you're not in a good headspace can we go back because I think you know you just said you woke up with a pounding headache I'm assuming it wasn't from drinking I'm assuming it was from the stress the stress the stress the um you're watching it back and now reliving that moment and now seeing so many people, millions of people watch it last night and have opinions on it, right? We go back then for everybody to get some clarity on why you got so emotional, like why your inside started to come out, you know, through your mouth in ways that you probably wouldn't have wanted.

And now you do look back and say, you know, you regret. Yeah. it's it's really as I watched it back last night I see it now from the outside and I see her side completely and it's like and to me I watched it and I thought how could you not see that in that moment and I want to say this again I just want to be able to provide explanation so people can understand my thought process because my thought process then is different than my thought process is now and I accept full accountability for my actions I'm not trying to make any excuses I hope no one I hope everyone understands that this is just me explaining what I was thinking

in that moment. Doesn't mean it was right. But I essentially believed in the process. I stepped in as the bachelor and I said, okay, I'm going to date 30 women. And this will be acceptable. You know, this is the only environment where you can kiss a woman in front of 30 other women and they're going to still stick around and try to be with you the next day. You could never do that in the real world. It would people, you know, it's just not feasible. And so you start to think that, okay, things work differently here so there's a little bit of leeway and it's just it's not real world applicable because of that i started to adapt to the environment and i started to say okay well i'm assuming that these women understand how fancy fancy sweets go i'm assuming they understand i might fall in love

with multiple women so that's just that's a that's unknown and what i I saw, as we saw last night, is that Susie did not adapt to the environment. She stayed herself, her true self from outside the show versus coming into the show. And I commend her for that. I think that's incredibly respectful. The disconnect was I adapted. She didn't. And we were on these two different fields of understanding.

And as I look back at it now from being on the outside of it, that's now I'm like, okay, yeah, her side of it makes complete sense. Why could you not see it? And I just couldn't in that moment because I was very entrenched in that belief that things worked differently there. So what would have happened if she had the first fantasy suite and she would have told you I can't be here any longer if you sleep with anyone else? Yeah.

You know, what's tough about a what if scenario? Because again, what happened happened? And I would like to believe that if she went first and she gave me that ultimatum that I I would have sat back and said, okay, you realize if you take any more action going forward that this could be it for you to. I was never faced with the end of the line with us until that point that you saw last night. So I would like to think that if I realized the door was going to either be open or closed from that point forward, depending on based on my actions, that I would have, I would have not

been intimate with probably anybody at that point because I wouldn't want to mix it up. But my feelings of falling in love for the women were already there at that point. They were already there at the beginning of fancy suites. So if I would have sat and talked to her and said, I'm in love with these other two women as well, and she said, that's a deal breaker, then it wouldn't have mattered if she went first or third. The only thing that I could have changed is, okay, I cannot be intimate with anybody and protect everyone and I believe I would have done that but I I would have still had the feelings I started falling out these women back in hometowns maybe even before I didn't tell anybody going into

hometowns because again I was still trying to make sense of it on fighting the fact that I was had fallen for multiple women and I didn't want to believe it because I knew it would get messy and now everyone sees like it did and I didn't want to I told myself I will not fall in love with multiple women and I fought it and fought it and fought it and held back those emotions and then realized that like those emotions were there and I did feel that way about those women so I know it doesn't make sense and again people say you can't fall in love with three women and it's like okay then you won't ever believe me but I did and I swear I swear about it you can put a lie detector test on me like I did I fell in love with multiple women and I can't take that back but

if she had went first I believe I probably would just not have slept with any of them okay well you said in that scene that you loved her the most when did you start feeling that Or do you feel like that was just a reaction in the moment? No, I started feeling that right around hometowns, right after. Things went so great with her family. And again, I compartmentalize these relationships where when I was just with them, that's all I saw because I thought that was the right way to approach. It was like, if you want to give this a fair shot, when you're with this woman,

you're only with her. There are no other women. And you want to pour into that person 100%. But then once I would step away, I'd realize, okay, wait, so where do I feel? How do I feel? And of course, they weren't all equivalent going into fancy suites. There were, you know, I had more love for, like I said, Susie, than I did for either Gabby or Rachel. But going into fancy suites, my thought was is that deal breakers can come up.

We might not have any physical intimacy. And if Susie and I happened, if that wouldn't have happened and we would have went into fancy suites and be were intimate and we had no compatibility sexually then that would have shifted i would have now been potentially more in love with one of the other two women because physical intimacy is such a critical part of a relationship i cannot get engaged to somebody if there's no sexual chemistry it's just that's just me maybe that's not how everybody else is but for me that's so critical if i'm going to get engaged that has to be there let's um let's talk a bit uh i i mean i'm i'm interested right because i've been there i get it um people people were really confused when i told

two women i loved them uh everything was going pretty good for me uh the show people were watching it people were into it and then all of a sudden i did this thing and i didn't know how big of a deal it was until it happened i had no prep i was even nervous about the episode airing i actually thought everybody would be like oh that would be so hard like that's such a tough place for your heart to be at instead i you know um i felt some of the pain that i think you're feeling today and some of the confusion so for a second here let's talk about why you decided to say what you did and express those emotions you've touched on it but ultimately when you sat down and you made the intentional decision to tell two women at that point or and then three that you were in love with them why did you

think that was a good idea? I mean, I didn't think it was a good idea because you don't want to tell multiple women that you're in love with them. I mean, just look at it from the standpoint of I told a woman that I love that I'm the most in love with you, implying I was in love with other women. I mean, in what sense would, again, would you move forward with when you get engaged to somebody three days later, if you're saying, hey, I'm in love with you, but I'm also in love with other women.

It doesn't make sense. Now I see it. I'm like, it does not make sense. but I made it make sense in that moment. I had to make it make sense because if, again, Susie and I didn't have any physical intimacy, no compatibility, then I will say, okay, well, that's no longer, we're not going to work out. So now I need to focus on these other two relationships

and who I feel most compatible with. But this goes back to if I would have withheld those emotions, I did. I did actually withhold those emotions. I was falling for serene as well. And I had, when she told me, when I sent her home and she became very upset, she was, I just want to know, is it because of what I said? And she was talking about, is it because I told you I was in love with you? And is that why you turned shut down? And in that moment, I realized because I had not validated her or given her any explanation or any clue of as to where I stood with her, that everything was invalidated to her at that moment. And she felt that because she opened up, it shut me down. And my fear was going forward if that happened to her, what happens if these other women start to feel the same way? They don't know where I stand.

So how am I going to, when am I going to tell them? I'm just going to wait all the way until the final week right for engagement and tell someone right there that, hey, I'm in love with you. I think that's to me, it's like they need to know you're in love with them before you get engaged. You tell them right then and there the day of. It just, I don't know, when is the right time to tell somebody on the show when you're falling in love with them? And I know people say, okay, well, you should just told one person. I was in love with multiple women. I don't, so I felt that I should tell them all at the same time after hometowns.

That's just the next time I saw them was overnights. And I felt, I was like, this is where you're at. So you need to let these women know as soon as possible. When you told them, because I mean, I'm trying to go back into that season of life. I remember I was telling Ashley yesterday. I remember walking around my hotel room. I was in Jamaica and processing through what I was going to do that week. And there was a moment for me, and I've always said this, the reason I finally decided to do it

was exactly what you just said. So I would agree with you. I don't know if it's right or wrong. I just agree with you. Well, I felt like, hey, I want to valid. I know one of these people are going to be going home at the end of this. Maybe both of them, if it backfires on me here. But at least one of them.

and what I want them to know is how important this was for me also. I don't want them to leave without knowing that this was real for me. And so the validation in my mind called me right or wrong. And now, you know, I look back six years and say, I regret saying it. I don't regret feeling. And I'm not saying I didn't. I just don't think it was the wise thing to do. I don't think it was as it didn't keep things clean.

It messed stuff up, which I think. you're probably experiencing but the validation side of this uh was exactly why i did it and so after you said it to them like let's you know the first two at least um was there a weight lifted like did you feel like it oh though this was the good decision or was there like a hint of already regret in your mind going i think i might have just messed this whole thing up in the moment when i told each of the women the reactions they gave me was it was exciting i was happy i was I could see the joy in their face that I finally know where this guy stands. And I was so happy in that moment to have opened up to them.

I felt that I'm like, this is great. Now they're not going to put their walls up. We're fully in. They know where I stand. I know where they stand. And it felt right. But as they showed in last night's episode, there was a clip where I just, I said, I'm realizing I'm going to hurt somebody.

And I broke down because I thought back to that moment as I, I think that was after I was stayed overnight with Gabby and I realized I was like it hit me as I was away from the women and I was sitting there in that interview it hit me like just a brick wall I realize I'm like you're in you're in trouble like you're not in a good spot right now you have two women that you've just experienced overnights with that could see walking out of here engage with you and you told them both that you're that you're in love with them but someone's going to get hurt and that was when i realized when i was away from the women that i can't compartmentalize it when i'm with them i can but when a second i'm away from them is when it all came flooding and i was like you're you're in deep you're it's you're not in a good spot so then why did you go ahead and say it to susy you just felt like you had to like do the full circle no i told susy because again while i knew that it wasn't a good spot to be in I told those women and I and I and again I saw their reactions and I saw that it's like okay now

they know where I stand I felt that I was like I should tell Susie this is screwed up it's messed up I'm in love with multiple women but I was the most in love with her and I'm like I'm not going to hold back on telling her now just because I told the other two women like I have to approach this as every this I'm when I'm with them I'm with them and I can't allow what I've done or said to within another relationship to impact how I treat that other person when I talked to him. And so I knew it was in a bad spot, but I thought again that, well, don't hold back, let these women know. And then maybe they will come to understand that like, yeah, he did fall in love with other women,

but his heart was in the right place. He just was in a really, really unique once in a lifetime spot. And I can be willing to forgive him and see that like, it's a tough spot to be in. My boyfriend's professor is way too friendly, and now I'm seriously suspicious. Well, wait a minute, Sam, maybe her boyfriend's just looking for extra credit. Well, Dakota, it's back to school week on the OK Storytime podcast, so we'll find out soon. This person writes, my boyfriend has been hanging out with his young professor a lot. He doesn't think it's a problem, but I don't trust her.

Now, he's insisting we get to know each other, but I just want her gone. Now, hold up. Isn't that against school policy? That sounds totally inappropriate. According to this person, this is her boyfriend's former professor and they're the same age. It's even more likely that they're cheating. He insists there's nothing between them. I mean, do you believe him?

Well, he's certainly trying to get this person to believe him because he now wants them both to meet. So, do we find out if this person's boyfriend really cheated with his professor or not? To hear the explosive finale, listen to the OK Storytime podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Hi, my name is Enya Umanzor. And I'm Drew Phillips. And we run a podcast called Emergency Intercom. If you're a crime junkie and you love crimes, we're not the podcast for you. But if you have unmedicated ADHD...

Oh my God, perfect. And want to hear people with mental illness, psychobabble. Yes, yes. Then Emergency Intercom is the podcast for you. Open your free IHeartRadio app. Search Emergency Intercom and listen now. Hi, I'm Jenna Lopez. And in the new season of the Overcomfit podcast, I'm taking you on an exciting journey of self-reflection.

Am I ready to enter this new part of my life? Like, am I ready to be in a relationship? Am I ready to have kids and to really just devote myself and my time? I wanted to be successful on my own, not just because of who my mom is. Like, I felt like I needed to be better or work twice as hard as she did. Join me for conversations about healing and growth. Life is freaking hard. And growth doesn't happen in comfort.

Happened in motion, even when you're hurting. All from one of my favorite spaces, The Kitchen. Honestly, these are going to come out so freaking amazing. Be a part of my new chapter and listen to the new season of the Overcumper podcast as part of the MyCultura podcast network on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. What would you do if one bad decision forced you to choose between a maximum security prison? or the most brutal boot camp designed to be hell on earth. Unfortunately for Mark Lombardo, this was the choice he faced.

He said, you are a number, a New York State number, and we own you. Shock incarceration, also known as boot camps, are short-term, highly regimented correctional programs that mimic military basic training. These programs aim to provide a shock of prison life, emphasizing strict discipline, physical training, hard labor, and rehabilitation programs. Mark had one chance to complete this program and had no idea of the hell awaiting him

the next six months. The first night was so overwhelming and you don't know who's next to you. And we didn't know what to expect in the morning. Nobody tells you anything. Listen to shock incarceration on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

Hola, it's HoneyGerman. And my podcast, Grasasas Come Again, is back. This season, we're going even deeper into the world of music and entertainment with raw and honest conversations with some of your favorite Latin artists and celebrities. You didn't have to audition?

No, I didn't audition. I haven't auditioned in like over 25 years. Oh, wow. That's a real G-talk right there. Oh, yeah. We've got some of the biggest actors, musicians, content creators, and culture shifters sharing their real stories of failure and success.

You were destined to be a start. We talk all about what's viral. and trending with a little bit of chisement, a lot of laughs, and those amazing vivas you've come to expect. And of course, we'll explore deeper topics dealing with identity, struggles, and all the issues affecting our Latin community.

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or wherever you get your podcast. I think you've answered our question when it comes to why you did what you did. And, I mean, I'm, out of anybody, I am not one to criticize you for expressing your emotions towards, you know, these women. I get it. And like, I'll stand behind you on that fully. And I'll say, I understand. And there's been Bachelorette leads who've expressed it to more than one person. You're not alone and that you felt something for each woman.

And was it right or wrong that you told them, you know, that's yet, that that can be argued, right? That we, there's multiple people who would believe different things. But that's not what, but the love part of this, even though it's getting criticized, which happens, is not the thing that most people are talking about. It's going back to how we started this conversation with how you handled, um, the conversation with Susie once you were put on the spot and asked. How do you feel about somebody else and have you slept with them? So let's start digging into this and getting where you're at again on that because I think this is what everybody is wondering. And I guess I want to start this conversation with, after seeing it last night,

there's no secret. Clayton, you're being labeled and characterized. I mean, your character is in question completely right now by the fans of The Bachelor. How does that feel for you? and what would you say to them as a response to the last, you know, 15 hours since this show aired? It's tough because I've seen what everyone's saying, and they're using some pretty descriptive terms, some pretty heavy-heading terms that I couldn't disagree with more. But I understand that it appears that way.

And I don't even want to use the words because it's not that it couldn't be farther from the truth. But what I can say is this is that I did not handle it well. I didn't. I mean, it was not handled maturely. I raised my voice to her. I became, I was grasping at straws. I was trying to find anything that I could at that point to get her to stay. Like, I just wanted her to give me a chance.

And so I went through this, this gauntlet of emotions where at first our conversation, was very cordial at first. We were back and forth, no tone. There was no raised tone. We were going back and forth and having this discussion and working through it. About, you know, the third or fourth time that she said, I can't work past this. We stepped aside. She got up and she walked out. And then I started to have these really dangerous thoughts. I thought, why does it seem like she's not fighting for this? Why does it seem like she can't even give me a chance I didn't know she felt this way. And I understand, I just, I'm wondering why she won't just try to give me a second chance

because I wasn't aware of how she felt. And I made assumptions and I wish I wouldn't have. But then I started to think like the way that she's acting with everything else that had happened prior with Sarah playing this game of, you know, trying to get the other woman to leave through making up lies. And it was, I don't know for whatever reason she was doing that. But I started to think, okay, go back to realistically. I'm like, some of these women came here for the wrong reasons to push their own agenda. So I started having these really dangerous thoughts of being like, well, what happened?

What if Susie right now is just trying to get out of this? What if she's just saying whatever she needs to say to leave me so that she could be the next bachelorette? And that was a thought that I had. And when I, when she came outside and I was talking to Jesse, that was my thought. And she goes, do you want to go back and talk inside? I said, and I kind of was like, that's when you could see the tone shifted. Because at that point, I started looking at her as if she was.

playing me the entire time as other women had. And so I became, I started to, yeah, be in a really dangerous headspace. And I questioned her. And that's why I said, I don't know who I'm even looking at anymore. Because in that moment, I really believed at that point that she was just feeding me whatever she needed to, to get out of there so she could be the next Bachelorette. I don't believe that now. I didn't believe it the next day. But I believed it in that moment and because of that I allowed my emotions to take over and I just wasn't at that point nothing she said was going to get through to me at that point because I had I just convinced myself that you aren't here for me you never were but you will admit that what you

the actions that you took the words that you used were like definition gaslighting like you totally flipped the situation and made it seem like you were the victim and that she was this person that was like just being horrible to you? I don't agree that I was gas sliding because I looked that up and it said, you know, gaslighting the definition is trying to convince someone of a different reality than what is actually the true reality of the situation. And again, I think I had my reality. But you just kind of admitted that you were making things up in your head.

But it wasn't, I think gaslighting in my eyes is something where it's, you have bad intentions. you're trying to manipulate somebody and I was not at all trying to do that my reality was in my head at that point I believed what I believed I had no bad intentions I just was voicing my concerns to her at that point in my frustrations and my feelings but I would not say at all no I totally disagree on the gaslighting concept because I was not trying to manipulate her for my benefit at all I had no intention of doing that I am not that kind of person and that does strike a chord with me because that's not me I was not trying to tell her that she was wrong. I was trying to figure out why she couldn't give me another chance.

But I wasn't sitting here saying, you're wrong. You have the wrong perspective on this and you need to believe my perspective. My whole hope was just, hey, we got, we're at a disagreement right now, but can we work past this? Can we fight through this? That's all I wanted to do. So your hope was, I mean, if I'm hearing you right, your hope was like your goal ultimately was like to keep her around because you thought there was still something there. Like you still believe that your future could be with Susie.

And so you were doing whatever you could, in your words, grasping me at Strauss to try to convince her to stay when she was committed to leaving at that point. And so how I hear this and tell me if I'm wrong, is something happened in this process where your ego got deeply hurt. And I get how that can happen too, right? We've been there. But there's something that happened along this journey that maybe we saw or didn't see where now you're feeling like I have to be on guard for the people trying to leave the show, for the women that aren't in this for the right things, and that aren't interested in me. And it felt like, I mean, what I'm hearing is at this moment, your ego got in the way

and you were trying to protect everything, especially the fact that you didn't want Susie to walk out. And so I'm like, I guess that's one question. Where did that get hurt? And the second is, why weren't you okay with her leaving? Like, ultimately, like, why did it matter? If she wanted to be the next bachelorette, like, let her go. Let her go do that because you still got two women you're in love with sitting in a house somewhere. Yeah. So I, when I hear the the term ego, I, I guess if you want to say, I was very much at that point in a very, had a very timid, I was very just nervous that I had, you know, Sarah play this game with me. I had other women that had left that, you know, just wasn't shown, but like people that came

here just to push their own agenda to take for this to be a stepping stone for their, I mean, again, I don't want to sit here and say all these women came here for me. me they didn't even like no that's not true at all and we all know this so let's call it for what it is like the a lot of people came here for their own personal benefit and but there were women that said okay hey yes i did i could this could be a stepping stone but i could also fall for this guy and so there were genuine women that were here to say hey this is possible but what happened was is really what it was the turning point was when i found out because i had no idea but when i found out sarah was lying to the other women and telling them things like oh he said after our first

one-on-one that I was going to be at the end of it all with him. He was already constructing his hometowns after week one, and that he was crying with me. These were things that I was like, why are you making this up? You're making it seem to give this extremely strong connection. And we have a connection, but these women now are all going to leave. And like, they all came to me. We thought, thought about leaving at one point. So when I had to have the women come tell me, because I didn't see that, like Sarah played it well, then I thought, okay if she's playing that game who could still be playing this game like she played it all up until right four hometowns i almost took her to hometowns therefore i thought is there anyone

else that's still potentially playing me and yeah at that point i was freaked out i was very insecure because just because i everything started creeping that you're on a show man like you have to understand that people the show faces criticism for people coming on here to become popular to gain followers and all that And you came here with the mind, the headspace of you want to fall for somebody and you think it's possible. But now you're, you're wondering if these women feel the same way. And I told myself, no, you have an incredible final four women. That's not the case with them. And I didn't believe it until in that moment when I talked to Susie, it was like all of a sudden that thought crept back in.

It came racing into that moment. Why, to answer your question, why couldn't I just let her go when she said that? I mean, ultimately, I know that I walked her out, quote unquote, but I did let her go at that point. I didn't handle it right. I, my tone, I raised my tone. I stopped listening and it was immature. And I did not handle it correctly. But I did let her go in that moment.

And that was what I said, right? As I opened the corridor, I said, I believe everything happens for a reason. I don't know why this was supposed to happen, but it did. And so I'm going to move on. And so I did. I did let her. go i just but i was fighting because again i saw this person potentially being the woman of my dreams my future wife and i was not going to just say okay all right that's how you feel well it was great

knowing you and i wish you the best i was going to fight for it and i fought for it with every last ounce of fight in my body it doesn't mean i did it the right way but i i fought all the way till the end well you said that susy you don't feel like susy fought for you in that moment you don't feel like susy fought for you in that moment how do you feel about that that line now it was it was untrue i i remember that i when she walked out i remember talking to the producers and i said she was cold i said she showed no emotion whatsoever and how do you feel about that now i was wrong a thousand percent but because I was so hurt and upset that I even felt as though she gave no emotion from start to finish.

And I watch it back now and I'm like, it's clear as day. The emotion was there. She was torn. But I couldn't see that because I was just trying to do everything in my power to, like, see if I could convince her to give me a second chance. And when I couldn't do that, I just looked. back at it all because it all having it was it was probably three hours of conversation of course they can you think only pack in what they can but it was a three hour conversation and I just at

that point I'm like man she like she seemed cold but she now I watch it back I'm like no she didn't seem cold at all man you literally had the wrong perspective you couldn't even see her perspective then and yeah there's a lot of things that I look back now I'm like well what were you thinking but I was thinking what I'm telling what I've told you all throughout this entire discussion I was in that headspace, and it wasn't the right headspace as I look back at it now, but I was in that in that moment. That's the headspace I was in. Clayton, you obviously have a few more weeks left.

You know, you've explained the whole situation to us. So as these next weeks go on and as people continue to watch your journey unfold, what would you want to say? to anybody out there who listens to this, who watches the show, who watch last night, people that were really hurt by the conversation that took place, people that are now saying, you know, we saw a side of Clayton we've never seen before or up to this point. Is this who he is? Is this the man that we've, you know, has he been hiding in his suit all season up into this point? Just give you the floor to say whatever it is

you want to say to anybody out there for the you know as they watch you the next couple weeks i just ask people to have patience and understanding that when i say i followed my heart and i was doing everything that i thought was best that that is exactly what it was was it right no people are seeing the mistakes i made people are seeing i see them i accept full responsibility I want people to understand that. Everything that I'm saying in these podcasts right now as I'm talking to you all is not an excuse. I'm here because you guys brought me on to talk about it.

I'm giving explanations. That does not mean I'm trying to dodge any bit of blame. I take all of the blame, okay? And I want people to understand that. I'm not making any excuses. I'm just providing explanations to let people understand. Here's what I thought in that moment. Going forward, again, I take all of it.

I'm fully accountable. I am not that person that was shown then. I allowed my emotions to get the best of me with everything going on. And hopefully people will see in the coming weeks that following my heart makes sense. But that's where, again, I have to wait until it's shown all the way through. People have already shown that they're not going to have that patience. That's fine. People have the right to decide to react sooner or they can wait.

And I've had a lot of great people reach out to me and say, hey, I see, you know, I see your frustration. People that know me are still in my corner. They know that there's so much more to it. People that don't know me, they see what they see and they make a judgment. I can't fault anybody for that. But I just tell people to see it all the way through,

all the way through until the end of the finale, and then cast your judgment. Clayton, final question for you. What have you learned since last night? oh man uh so much i learned that the one of the greatest things that i learned was the power of emotion when you allow that to overcome rationale i i see for me personally i saw that i shut down and i jump to a lot of conclusions that aren't realistic that weren't the truth and so i've known this before but i know

now going forward ever if I ever get overwhelmed ever if I'm ever in a situation where I'm ever ever ever overwhelmed like that ever again take a deep breath and step aside say I need to take five like just step away I in that moment did not do that and I wish I would have just taken a breather and walked outside and said give me 20 minutes like but I didn't I also learned again, that, you know, my reality is one thing and someone else's reality is another. And reality, perception is reality. However people perceive it is that's the reality of it. I think her and I both, I think her and I both as far as our, and not in our actions,

but in our thoughts and feelings were justified. My actions were indefensible when I started to raise my voice and make and accuse her. But I think that, again, I saw that it's like, this isn't black and white, as you said earlier. This show, with the show, it's not black and white. It's hard to date 30 women. I'm dating 30 women. They're dating one man. And so there's this major disconnect.

And you try to come into the middle and find the common ground. And unfortunately, that's where we came to a head is when I said, how do you not understand this? Like, I'm dating 30 women. What's, there's multiple relationships. what's how is that hard to believe and she was you know saying how can you fall for multiple people like i'm only falling for you and there was that disconnect so i i i've learned a ton because i watch it back now and i'm like yeah i'm like now i'm on the outside of it being like dude like you really fell in deep to this and you fully believed and you you really wanted to just

make it work and so you adapted you did whatever you could and you and things were just like you said things were going great for me they were going great all up until this point other than that I mean, there was drama with all that, with Shane and all that. I wasn't really involved heavily in that because I was building these other connections while all that was occurring. So I thought things were great. I was like, everything's going great. You're doing things the right way.

And then it just came, boom, it hit me all at once. And I realized, like, this is because of your own actions, what you did. This is now you have to face the repercussions for the situation that you're in. So all of that just to say, yeah, I mean, I just hope people can understand. that I didn't have any bad intentions. I wasn't I was not playing these women. I had genuine connections. I was trying to compartmentalize one relationship to the next and really give every one of these women of equal chance until I could figure out who is the best fit for me. And I just along the way made decisions that I wish I would have done differently. Clayton, thanks for joining us

today, I mean. Yes. Thank you for we appreciate you being here and expressing all of the things that you've been feeling over the past 24 hours plus. Yeah, no matter what, this is not ideal, right, to sit down and have to talk about it and then have millions of people watch it. But we do appreciate you sit down and talking with us today. And we wish you the best. We know it won't be easy.

We know that criticism is going to come. But we do wish you the best in the following weeks as this season unfolds. So thanks to join us on the Almost Famous Podcast. Thanks, guys. Follow the Ben and Ashley I, Almost Famous Podcasts on IHeartRadio or subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts. My boyfriend's professor is way too friendly,

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Now he's insisting we get to know each other, but I just want her gone. Hold up. Isn't that against school policy? That seems inappropriate. Maybe find out how it ends by listening to the OK Storytime podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, my name is Enya Umanzor. And I'm Drew Phillips. And we run a podcast called Emergency Intercom. If you're a crime junkie and you love crimes, we're not the podcast for you. But if you have unmedicated ADHD...

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Instead, check out Brown Ambition. Each week, I, your host, Mandy Money, gives you real talk, real advice with a heavy dose of I feel uses, like on Fridays when I take your questions for the BAQA. Whether you're trying to invest for your future, navigate a toxic workplace, I got you. Listen to Brown Ambition on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. What would you do if one bad decision forced you to choose between a maximum security prison or the most brutal boot camp designed to be hell on earth. Unfortunately for Mark Lombardo, this was the choice he faced. He said, you are a number, a New York State number, and we own you.

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