The Ben and Ashley I Almost Famous Podcast - Divorce Court

Episode Date: December 21, 2024

Cheryl Burke, Kelly Bensimon, and Alexia Nepola are joined by divorce attorney Dennis Vetrano.  With three divorces between them, they know all the right questions.Do "I Do" part 2s have a better success rate than first-timers? When do you make the call to a divorce lawyer? Do trial separations always lead to divorce? The need-to-know info to ease your separation anxiety. Email us at: [e-mail] or call us at 844-4-I Do Pod (844-443-6763)Follow I Do, Part 2 on Instagram and TikTokSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. My boyfriend's professor is way too friendly, and now I'm seriously suspicious. Wait a minute, Sam. Maybe her boyfriend's just looking for extra credit. Well, Dakota, luckily, it's back to school week on the OK Storytime podcast, so we'll find out soon. This person writes, my boyfriend's been hanging out with his young professor a lot. He doesn't think it's a problem, but I don't trust her. Now he's insisting we get to know each other, but I just want her gone.

Hold up. Isn't that against school policy? That seems inappropriate. Maybe find out how it ends by listening to the OK Storytime podcast and the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, my name is Enya Umanzor. And I'm Drew Phillips. And we run a podcast called Emergency Intercom. If you're a crime junkie and you love crimes, we're not the podcast for you. But if you have unmedicated ADHD... Oh, my God, perfect.

And want to hear people with mental illness, psychobabble. Yes, yes. Then Emergency Intercom is the podcast for you. Open your free IHeartRadio app. Search Emergency Intercom and listen now. What would you do if one bad decision forced you to choose between a maximum security prison or the most brutal boot camp designed to be hell on earth?

Unfortunately for Mark Lombardo, this was the choice he faced. He said, you are a number, a New York State number, and we own you. Listen to shock incarceration on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome back to I Do Part 2. I'm one of your celebrity mentors, Cheryl Burke, and today I'm joined by a powerhouse of women for a conversation on a topic I know.

we all have a lot to say about. So please help me welcome fellow celebrity mentors, Kelly Ben-Simon, Alexia Napola. Hi, ladies. Hi, Cheryl. Hi, Kelly. It's been so long, Alexia, especially. Yes. Last time I saw you, you were dancing with one of my friends, William Levy.

We went out to L.A., and you guys obviously were my favorite couple and you should have taken the trophy. Right? That's what I think. I mean, people were drooling over that guy, but how are you doing? I know, for you too, by the way, because you're an amazing dancer. You've always been my favorite dancer, by the way. Amazing. Thanks so much.

How are you, Kelly? I'm doing better, so much better. You know, you and I have kind of been through a lot together, and I'm just feeling, like, emotionally so much stronger, but, you know, with any kind of, like, you know, unraveling of anything, it's twofold. It's emotional and transactional. And so there was just a lot of money things I had to take care of, which I was not happy with, which actually made me more angry than just not being together. Right, right.

I hear you. I mean, that's just the rollercoaster of emotions, I'm sure. Just wasting money is just not my thing. It's a lesson learned, never a waste. 2025 is going to be such a good year, though. It's going to be amazing. Are you talking about the relationship you're in with your fiancé? Yes, I am dumb.

Okay. in the summer. So Cheryl's been so great. We started doing this podcast together the very beginning. And Cheryl taught me a lot about how to navigate, but also how to treat myself. And we've been through similar situations. I'm so excited to hear.

I feel like a lot of us women have been through situations like that. Yeah. It's just not talked about as much. Right. And I think it's so much better, at least for me, you know, I think talking about it, and especially to somebody like Cheryl that's gone through it

or other of our friends or women that have gone through it, it's so much more relatable and they get it. You know, sometimes your friends that haven't been in these situations don't get it. And it's, you know, and it's really hard. So it's great that you've had Cheryl.

I don't know if you have any other friends, but I know for me, my friends have been everything. Oh, you for you, just been you. Well, I'm just kidding.

I'm kidding. Oh, no, because you know what Cheryl? I'm Kelly's only friend. That's it. No, Well, I'm sure you give her good advice because, by the way, I was also reading, I started following you, Cheryl, and I started reading, like, your interviews and your podcasts and listening to them, and I'm loving them.

And I'm enjoying them. And I'm also learning a lot through because I'm also going through my own journey. But yeah, so it's great to have you now also, you know, as my friend and as I'm going for and Tilly too. So thank you. I just need to follow my own advice. That's the hard part. Well, that's what happens to me, Cheryl. I give great advice and then I'll reply it to myself.

all my friends come to me for advice and they're like what about you i always told Cheryl that she's the adult in the room and she's teaching me and mentoring only you knew what i did though when you weren't with me like wait a second are you being said hypocrite or no i'm kidding okay so i say don't do as i do exactly exactly that is a true saying that is true um that's my therapist i'm like how messed up is your life my therapist for the last 15 years let's Let's talk about you. Okay. Well, my mom was at great psychiatrists, and she gave great, like, couples therapy, and she

had been divorced five times. So I was like, Mom, like, she divorced five times. I'm like, how can you? And she would make everyone stay together, and she was so good at it. And yet, in her life, she was a mess. Let's see if Dennis Petrano, if he has also gone through many divorces, I'm hoping he has, because then he'll really be able to relate. Well, like, I feel like we've only gone through one, right?

us three i've only got through one yeah only one for now well me be the same because my second one my husband we never filed for divorce and he unfortunately passed away so i was technically a widow that's the one i met i met yeah that's the one you met her i'm so sorry yeah because he was a great man and um so technically you know we never filed for divorce or anything we're great friends worked together and unfortunately you know that happens and my third husband now which is taught I'm still married to him, and I'm still trying to stay married. Let's see what the, well, let's see what day. No, I mean, we're both trying to, you know, to make it work.

It takes work. It works, right? Like, it's always a work in progress. Like, it's never too comfortable, you know. It is. And I just think it's easier. I just think it's easier. And I think a lot of people, that's why they're quitting, like, so quickly,

because it's just easier to walk away. It takes so much work on both sides and so much effort that, you know, sometimes I think people just don't want to try. so hard anymore. Well, or it could be that like the one person wants to work, but then you can't force the other person to do the work either. And when that's the situation, there's nothing you can do other than put yourself first and walk away, you know? Yeah, that won't work. You definitely both. You've had two relationships. I've only had one one like big relationship, one marriage. and I it's interesting because you know I everyone's like well how come you're single like basically like what's wrong with you I'm like no no no I'm not single I'm just I'm just I'm just because I'm not in a relationship doesn't mean I have a single mindset right I'm looking for the right person not any person that is true but are you okay with like being alone I think that that's my yeah yeah well I think now you are right because you went through your journey but I freaking love it I love it too much my therapist is

is worried about me. Really? Because I know that's scary too. You have a lot of friends like you, Cheryl, that I've been divorced. And they're so good being alone that they really, and, you know, they're also a bit like you by choice because they're just not going to, they just don't want another relationship. It's so weird.

But I'm kind of scared of that too, Cheryl. I'm not going to lie. Because I feel like, I'm just like, I know there's a difference between being alone and being lonely. I would never be lonely because my life is very complete and I have so much going on in my life and I love my life so I don't see it that way but I've always seen myself like with someone like my happiness doesn't depend on the person right part of my happiness like in my vision board is being with someone and sharing I hear you but you know there's going to be ebbs and flows like with anything

with money with relationships and I believe that it's never nothing's forever except you are you forever like you're stuck with you for the rest of your life you better like yourself and I think when it comes to I want to find someone that makes me happy or those types of like statements are really it's I I would I hope one day that and though I'm just saying this it doesn't mean I'm doing it but like or practicing it but the happiness does you complete you right like and I think until that really happens then you start to attract the people that are healthy that aren't aren't looking for toxic relationships that are looking for no one to complete them because they've already completed themselves like there's nobody's. going to fill that void for you. I totally agree with that. Yes. I think that like, you know, for me, like it's not that I, you know, I've been lonely. I've just been alone, but I've also been raising two kids on my own. And so now, like, even my, you know, my youngest is still living with me. And, you know, I'm definitely looking to be with someone special, definitely. And I've always been open to that. But, you know, when you're a full time single parent, you don't think,

you know, you're not like, okay, I'll just, you know, dump my kids for some guy. It's not going to happen. No, hopefully not. I would never, I would never do that. No, not you. Well, no, you haven't done it. So I don't think at this point in your life, you know, whoever comes to your life knows that your children are a priority and they're, you know, you're a package, you know,

and that's what men that date women with kids have to understand. And that can also be a problem in relationships. You know, I feel like women that come into relationships with no kids, because they don't want, then it could work. Again, it really depends on the person that you're dating, you know. So it's very relative. Should we bring in our guest, you guys? This is going to be exciting.

He's a talker, and I can't wait to have him on. And so are we. Oh, yeah, I know, exactly. How long you got, folks? Okay, so today we're going to dive deep into the topic of divorce and ask all the questions that we wished we'd ask when we were going through it or things you should be considering the second time around. Our guest today is a divorce attorney mediator and has the best TikTok feed full of helpful

information. This is very true. Please welcome Dennis Vitrano to the podcast. Welcome. Hi. How are you? Nice to meet all of us. Have you heard I do part two?

Yes. Well, recently, yes. I've been kind of binging on it a little bit. Meet the ladies. Yeah, yeah, for sure. So I guess tell us about yourself first, and then we'll just, we've got tens of questions for you. Okay. Ooh, I'm frightened now.

Should I be intimidated? I'm fine. I would. No, you're used to this. I'm fine. I'm used to asking the questions, but I'll answer them too. So 25 years practicing attorney, I've been doing predominantly divorce and family law litigation throughout that timeframe.

and probably say maybe about the past five years just trying to take what I've learned from being a divorce and family law litigation attorney for 25 years and try to like and all the stories I've heard and all the horror stories and try to like rewind and say like how do we look at the mistakes that are made in marriages and relationships that lead you to those divorces and those contentious, you know, drawn out, knock down, drag out to forces and rewind, like, what could we have done to avoid that from the start? Like, what are the signs that we saw or maybe didn't see, should have seen that we could have fixed along the way to not end up in my office. Right, right. But then also it's good for you too if they end up in your office, right?

Exactly. I mean, look, it is, but I think, you know, look, I tell people, people always, you know, I do so much on TikTok and Instagram and stuff like that. And I've been doing. videos for a long time about divorces. You know, a lot of the knocks and a lot of the guys, especially will say, oh, this guy just wants to get your money. It's like, no, it's like, you know what? Do you represent men more or women? Your clientele is there more ladies or men?

I find that it's been about 50, 50 for the longest time, but probably over the past handful of years, I've probably been representing more women than men, you know, and I find for me, it dovetails more nicely with the. the way I approach these cases and really what I believe in in that, like, you know, my experience is women tend to be more introspective. They tend to be more open to counseling. They tend to be more open to listen to you. And I think that, you know, as a professional in this space and wanting to help people, you know, have a healthy, successful life, it just works better that sort of relationship. Are you divorced? No.

Wow. Are you married? I am married. Okay. I am married to. kids. How long have you been married? We've been married since 2007, September 1st, 2007. So how good is my math here? So roughly about 14 years. Now, do you rep rep yourself if anything were to happen? Or do you have colleagues that you would? Or do you not even would not use a divorce attorney, maybe? Now, this is funny because I don't even have a pre-nup. You know, this goes back to what we were saying. Like, we could preach all we want. Well, we first met. I didn't need a pre-nup. She did. So let's put it. That was very accomplished woman,

my wife. Yeah. So did you sign one? No, no. We don't, we don't have a pre-nup. Because it's their first marriage. Right. Right. Right. Right. We're beginners. Well, I mean, I had a pre-up from the beginning. Yeah. I think it's funny because clients and even just really anybody, I think it's a good idea to have a pre-up. And people are surprised about the reasons why I think, think you should have a pre-up. I think you should. Why do you like pre-ups? I think you should have a pre-up not for the conventional reasons why people typically do pre-ups. I think you should have a pre-up because you have more disclosure. You have more open honesty. You're having tougher conversations before the marriage starts that many people are just not ready for. You know,

people don't want to talk about, hey, what happens if we get divorced? People don't want to talk about how much debt do you have? Like, where do you make, where do you make your money? Don't you think that that affects the couple as far as where the relationship's going to go? You know, like you said, there's a lot of disclosure. There's, you know, there's honesty. You have to be transparent. It's like it's uncomfortable. I'm being honest.

I mean, it's uncomfortable. Then demand things that like, all you're, you know, like, oh, you just like want my money. But you know what else is uncomfortable? Childbirth, which I've never experienced. But like that is also, I'm assuming super uncomfortable. So it's like we have to have these conversations. regardless. Better to do it before you say I do, I think. Well, I feel like some couples today, I mean, maybe I'm wrong,

but baby, I think that people aren't getting married and couples, like, I have friends of mine. I'm going to be honest, and they've been engaged, and they are avoiding marriage because they don't want to sit down and work on a pre-up. Well, that's their problem. My boyfriend's professor is way too friendly, and now I'm seriously suspicious. Oh, wait a minute, Sam. Maybe her boyfriend's just looking for extra credit. Well, Dakota, it's back to school week on the OK Storytime podcast, so we'll find out soon.

This person writes, my boyfriend has been hanging out with his young professor a lot. He doesn't think it's a problem, but I don't trust her. Now, he's insisting we get to know each other, but I just want her gone. Now, hold up. Isn't that against school policy? That sounds totally inappropriate. Well, according to this person, this is her boyfriend's former professor, and they're the same age. And it's even more likely that they're cheating.

He insists there's nothing between them. I mean, do you believe him? Well, he's certainly trying to get this person to believe him because he now wants them both to meet. So, do we find out if this person's boyfriend really cheated with his professor or not? To hear the explosive finale, listen to the OK Storytime podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Hi, my name is Enya Umanzor. And I'm Drew Phillips. And we run a podcast called Emergency Intercom.

If you're a crime junkie and you love crimes, we're not the podcast for you. But if you have unmedicated ADHD... Oh my God, perfect. And want to hear people with mental illness, psychobabble. Yes, yes. Then Emergency Intercom is the podcast for you. Open your free IHeartRadio app. Search Emergency Intercom and listen now.

Your entire identity has been fabricated. Your beloved brother goes missing without a trace. You discover the depths of your mother's illness, the way it has echoed and reverberated throughout your life, impacting your very legacy. Hi, I'm Danny Shapiro. And these are just a few of the profound and powerful stories I'll be mining on our 12th season of Family Secrets.

With over 37 million downloads, we continue to be moved and inspired by our guests and their courageously told stories. I can't wait to share 10 powerful new episodes with you, stories of tangled up identities, concealed truths, and the way in which family secrets almost always need to be told. I hope you'll join me and my extraordinary guests for this new season of family secrets. Listen to Family Secrets Season 12 on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

So I didn't have a pre-up for my first marriage. I did not have a pre-up. And, you know, I don't feel like. I don't, you know, I don't, I don't, I didn't feel like I needed one because I was so young. But, you know, if my, when my daughters, you know, find, you know, their love of their life, I'm definitely, definitely going to make them get pre-nups. But I did not get, I did not have that. We're not because I was, you know, 26 years old.

But, you know, it's just a totally different world now than it was then. Well, tell them your story, your story. I mean, I think that that's, I think that Dennis made that really good point that. that a pre-up is kind of like what would happen if you get divorced. And so it's basically the same kind of, it's a contract, and so it's basically the same kind of document.

You can speak to that. Why don't you tell us the difference between the pre-up and the divorce? Yeah, but I mean, here's the thing. I mean, I think, look, you know, pre-ups, I'll get into what pre-up is and why it's important from a legal standpoint, but I think

pre-ups, I think, are important because you need to choose. Look, successful marriages, in my opinion, start off with choosing well. The finances are necessarily part of it. How do you make your money? How do you spend your money? When you marry someone, you are extending this level of trust to this individual that, Jesus, if they can't talk to you about what their debts are, or how they make their money, or like, you know, how many buildings do they have, or what their credit score is, I mean, listen, you're like trusting your soul, your heart with this person and they can't trust you to tell you what they make or like, you know, these things, there needs to be full disclosure. There needs to be.

Because again, like I said, successful, long lasting marriages start with choosing well. And I think the pre-nup is a tool. And open communication. Right. Right. That's it. Yes. Open communication from the get-go.

on the things that are most you're right and vulnerable and transparency and all of it like but don't you think before marrying somebody that these conversations like it's common sense because if let's say you don't do it your life is going to be a living this person's going to be in your life no matter if whatever happened happened like for the rest of your life and that is forever you know like that it's just a nightmare situation yeah especially i don't i can't speak to that but Yes. So, Dennis, are you more likely or less likely to get divorced the second time around if your marriage and if your first marriage ended in divorce?

Well, I think, look, we know second marriages fail to the tune of about 70-something percent. You know, first marriages are roughly about 50 percent. What about the third marriage? Well, right. What about no marriage? I don't remember that. It keeps on going right. Right.

I think it's going up. I think part of the reason is. we're worried about the wrong things when our relationship fails. We're worried about the stigma associated with it. We're worried about the shame. We're worried about protecting our kids. We're worried about what our friends are saying about us when really what we need to be worrying about is ourselves and getting to getting reacquainted with ourselves. Taking the time to do that.

Taking the time to date and know, you know what you're looking for. Date already? Yes, right. Right away? Cheryl doesn't agree with that. Dennis, isn't it also that when you get divorced after the first time and then you get married again, it's probably easier to get divorced the second time because you already know what's at stake?

We can just copy the pre-up. Like, we can just make another copy and just change the name. That's a good point. That's not good. That's, I mean, listen, I believe in, you know, I believe in divorce. I believe in, you know, if things aren't working out, I definitely believe in making better. choices for yourself and for your family, 100%. But I do also think that once you've done it,

you're going to do it again. You know, you're like, okay, nothing's forever. No, I know. Cheryl? Maybe. I mean, I think, look, I was always a proponent. Now, this is a divorce lawyer who was always a proponent who said, hey, you got to wait, you got to take time.

You really got to heal yourself. You got to get to know yourself. Yes, I'm still, that's absolutely the way I feel. However, you know, I've been over the past year, so I've been doing some podcast talking with some people in this space. And one of the gentlemen who was divorced suggested he said, I actually started dating early on. He said,

but I just went out and went for a cup of coffee. That's so typical. Yeah, but listen. No, no. No, no. This particular individual was very introspective about it, different than most guys in these spaces. Because believe me, I get it.

I totally understand where you're coming from. But his point was, I needed to figure out what I was looking for. And part of rediscovering myself was knowing the type of person that I wanted to be with or did not want to be with. And he was thoughtful about it. I disagree. And I think that's part of it. This is the thing. You're never going to get anything from anybody else.

Like, you need to figure out yourself. True. Like you as the individual. because nobody is going to fill your cup up other than yourself. No one's going to fill any void. And that is just the way it is, right? So if you continue to look and look and look, look, look, like, what are you, you're never going to be satisfied because you haven't filled yourself up with anything other

than looking for someone to fill it for you. Yeah, I feel like a lot of men do that kind of stuff, Cheryl. They're like, okay, well, you know what? I'm just going to go look and as an excuse. You know, it's interesting. It's just from the recent dating. It's interesting because the guys that I've been dating, they're all like very nice guys,

but they all say the same thing to me. They're like, I'm not the same as him. You know, there are certain things I would never do and kind of putting it into my head that, you know, what I was doing was wrong and that they're so great and that I'm so bad. And I'm like, wait a big flag. Oh, no, that's a red flag, my friends.

Are you gaslighting me from my own experience? Yes. Correct. That's exactly what's happening. Because I failed. Now you're going to make me worse about failing. Red flag. Red flag. You can't walk away from those relationships feeling like you made a mistake. Like you were to blame. You can't, you can't because you never. I mean, the point is it's it's about not because I think it's societal in large part. And I think I do think to a certain degree it is specific to women.

in that they feel that sense of shame, that sense of responsibility for the failed relationships that in large part from my experience, guys don't really feel, they don't see it, they don't get it in the same way. No, it's because you don't want to get it.

We're all human. Like, really, it's all about self-awareness. Yes, what we're saying. And it's also, like, they always talked about, like, a woman's scorn.

Everyone's like, everyone's like a woman is already, is a woman scorn. What about a man's scorn? No, they have it. But, like, do they ever take the time? I'm not talking generally, obviously. Like there are men.

I actually have met men that are very self-aware that want to continue to evolve. Because no matter if you want to or not, we're evolving, right? And that's human nature. And if you say to me that there's no shame when it comes to like any relationship, every female, male, non-binary, it doesn't matter. Like we all have feelings. You're just the difference is, is that we are saying it out loud to take the shame away. Because I believe when you say how you feel and you explain.

it, especially whether it's podcast, and you're just talking to her friend, the shame does slowly strip away. But for men, they just continue on, not all men, some men, don't admit their feelings to themselves and just continue to numb, whether that's date other women, have sex with different women every single day, or maybe it's productivity that they're addicted to, you know, like, it's just there's so much you can do to numb. That's like a certain personality trait and personality style in men, not all men are like that no because you know there are men that you know have a failed marriage and you know they

yeah are upset about it you know they get better i know i feel like men need to have a woman more like we were talking about like how kelly and i want to like meet you know like not me in this case i'm you know i'm still with my husband taught but i'm just saying that i would never be alone i'm that just that kind of woman that i like to be in a relationship with a man and so what i'm trying to say is that there's a lot of men and i feel like men are needier that way that they need to, once they're done with their relationship or with their marriage, they also need to go out and find a woman. Like, they can't be alone.

I feel like men have a harder time being alone than women. But I have met men that can be alone too. It's rare, but it happens. Right. I mean, they can, but they have like 10 women at the same time. So they may not have one woman, but they're like, you know, talking to 10 different women and, you know, they're just like serial date or so whatever. I mean, yes, we're built differently, I guess.

Yeah, but I think that's right. I think when you say, I mean, you use the phrase self-evaluate and evolve and improve self-awareness, right? I think that's the piece that's missing to a certain degree with guys. And not all guys, listen, there's no one-size-fits-all with any of this. There is not. Everybody's their own individual and every relationship is its own thing. But I think that's one of the things, a vast majority of the guys that I deal with

they seem to miss. And when you say, like, hey, but what about this you could have done? better. What about that you could have worked on? It's like, oh, no, no, I'm always the bad guy. You know, what did you do wrong? Whoa, stop pointing to other people. Stop deflecting. Stop being defensive. Like, just step back. You know, they always say, like, there's a reason why you have two ears and one mouth, right? Because you're supposed to do twice as much listening as you do talking. But I think a lot of times with guys, they're not good at that. And it's not every guy, but it's on average, that's what I see. so like just sit down like shut up just listen and like like digesting and like be self-aware right or

self-evaluate go to an a a meeting you're going to hear a bunch of men who are taking accountability because you have to that's part of the program that I'm in as well like you have to take accountability for your addiction right that's the only way to get better and to be sober and take everything one day at a time until you first point the finger at yourself there is no way you know you're going down a slippery slope. So, like, those are the types of men that when, you know, I go to meetings, like there are men out there like that. And that's not, it's the sexiest thing in the world when a man takes accountability. When anybody, I don't care what gender or nongender, it is the sexiest thing. It shows confidence. It shows stability. It shows security for me, at least, I think. And when I have guys

here, like, and complain, like, oh, you know, there's no physical intimacy with my wife. And this and that happens like, like, but you're not responsible. you're not like you're not listening you're not like you know like come on man do you think that that's one of the main causes and in the cases that you see do you think it's one of like the big factors why people go apart or there's you know divorce lack of physical intimacy right yeah well lack of any obviously any intimacy emotional or physical but i feel like i have i know of people that have been married five six seven years i mean they've been married to for years and they haven't been intimate for five, six, seven years and they're okay with it.

I think that's a, listen, that's a really good question because in 25 years of doing this, I think that's what I've gotten throughout. No physical intimacy for years and people living in it. What I've been getting over, say, the past year to two years is people walking into my office and saying, we haven't had sex in five years. I can't live like that anymore. I know it's crazy. I hear these stories also because, you know, I have a lot of friends. I want a beauty bar. And historically, I didn't hear that as much.

My boyfriend's professor is way too friendly, and now I'm seriously suspicious. Well, wait a minute, Sam. Maybe her boyfriend's just looking for extra credit. Well, Dakota, it's back to school week on the OK Storytime podcast, so we'll find out soon. This person writes, my boyfriend has been hanging out with his young professor a lot. He doesn't think it's a problem, but I don't trust her. Now he's insisting we get to know each other, but I just want her gone. Now hold up, isn't that against school policy?

That sounds totally inappropriate. Well, according to this person, this is her boyfriend's former professor and they're the same age. It's even more likely that they're cheating. He insists there's nothing between them. I mean, do you believe him? Well, he's certainly trying to get this person to believe him because he now wants them both to meet. So, do we find out if this person's boyfriend really cheated with his professor or not? To hear the explosive finale, listen to the OK Storytime podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

Hi, my name is Enya Umanzor. And I'm Drew Phillips. And we run a podcast called Emergency Intercom. If you're a crime junkie and you love crimes, we're not the podcast for you. But if you have unmedicated ADHD... Oh my God, perfect. And want to hear people with mental illness, psycho babble. Yes, yes.

Then Emergency Intercom is the podcast for you. Open your free iHeartRadio app. Search Emergency Intercom. And listen now. A foot washed up a shoe with some bones in it. They had no idea who it was. Most everything was burned up pretty good from the fire that not a whole lot was salvageable. These are the coldest of cold cases, but everything is about to change.

Every case that is a cold case that has DNA right now in a backlog will be identified in our lifetime. A small lab in Texas is cracking the code on DNA. Using new scientific tools, they're finding clues in. evidence so tiny, you might just miss it. He never thought he was going to get caught, and I just looked at my computer screen. I was just like, ah, gotcha. On America's Crime Lab, we'll learn about victims and survivors, and you'll meet the team behind the scenes at Othrum, the Houston Lab that takes on the most hopeless cases, to finally

solve the unsolvable. Listen to America's Crime Lab on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. So, Dennis, when they come into your office, what are the most important questions that people should ask considering a divorce? Like, give us, like, three questions. I mean, I think, look, I think with divorce lawyers, you need to, I would probably hang on from me.

I would probably hang on. Is the lawyer, like, look, there are specific questions you can ask, but like, a lot of times people don't even know what questions they have. I mean, you can ask like, hey, you know, what's going to happen with the house in the event of a divorce? Like, what happens with my kids? What do I need to gather? What do I need to prove? But I think it's more about asking, like, it's more about preparing before you go into the office with the questions that you have off the top of your head and gauge what people's answers are.

What the lawyer's answers are. You know, I feel like with lawyers, it's important to have a full picture, right? So if you walk in to, you know, work with a dentist or have somebody do, you know, a medical procedure or you walk in for anything, you're going to be analyzing what does the office look like, how does the staff speak to me, how do they treat me, how attentive are they? When I talk to this lawyer, like, do they sound like they know what they're talking about? Because it's funny, when I first started practicing as a lawyer, I used to do consult, right? as you can imagine.

And when I would do a consult, I tell my boss, I've done three or four consults, and nobody's hiring me. And then when I started doing it longer, everybody was hiring me. And I came to the conclusion that you don't need to be a lawyer to know when a lawyer's good.

You don't need to have any specialized legal knowledge because when somebody's good at something, they exude confidence. You can see it. You can feel it. It's an energy. So you've got to look for that. And do they listen?

Right. So perfect example. I had a client that came into my office maybe about like, I don't know, like maybe three, four years ago. And they said, you know, I hired you. I said because when I went into your competitor's office, while I was talking to him, he was texting on his phone to someone. Oh, hell. No. You got to be kidding. Literally texting. And I, disgusting. Not only is that not a lawyer you would want to hire, but that's rude. It's just rude. Even if we were having a conversation at the coffee shop, I wouldn't be texting. thing while I was talking to. I had a mediator. I hired a mediator to, you know, organize my ex-husband and I because, you know, first of all, I didn't want my children. So my biggest thing was the house, whatever, money was not, like, I was just that that was what I was worried, concerned about. I was very concerned about my kids and how things would be perceived for my kids and my youngest daughter she went to they were they you know they found out that that uh my ex-husband and i were getting divorced and my and they went in to talk to my youngest daughter and they said you know how are you and she goes oh your parents are getting divorced how are you and she goes oh my parents

are separated and she goes everything's great and and they're like no no no your your parents are getting divorced and she's like yeah they're separated they're not they're not getting divorced they're just they're separated she didn't know the difference because she was young um but then later on she always says like mom i never even both of them or like i never even felt any of like the aftermath of a divorce because you just like like literally just took over um which was great for them but really really bad for me it was really really really difficult for me did you put that therapy or i did not go to therapy i or them your kids no no my kids did go to some therapy, but literally right after I like was, you know, how am I going to make money,

you know, now that I, you know, I'm going to be on my own with these two girls and they need to have education. What am I going to do? And so I literally went on Housewives back when it was like, you know, totally different game. And it was, it was probably, it was probably one of the worst decisions that I had made. I mean, there was so many great things that happened from being on Housewives. Did it payche you? Did it help? Yeah. No, there was a paycheck, but it was just, I was not prepared emotionally for like this is different like I talk to Cheryl and I like literally have cried in front of Cheryl like I'm like this is like how I'm feeling and you know she has a lot of empathy and she's all you know and Alexi and I don't know each other that well but I can

you know I just from hearing her story I feel comfortable talking to her and obviously you're a lawyer but you know when I was on that show I did not feel comfortable talking to them about anything it's hard I'm on that show Kelly as you know and it is it's hard. There's just no camaraderie and they were. Oh, okay. You know, I've been lucky enough that I have a best friend online. But like when you did it, I felt like back in the day, right? Kelly, I felt the same because, you know, our show started in 2010. I know you started before. But with that being said, back in the day, it was like everybody was so against each other. I think it's kind of a little better. It's still, you still see that a lot.

Awful. But I'm lucky enough that I have my best friend on the show. So like I only open up to her. I did not. Very lucky. I had no, I literally knew Luan like for a second out of from a party. I didn't knew no one. And so for me, just going into that, knowing that I needed to make money and knowing that I need to provide for my kids and going into that after having a mediator, it was just, it was very stressful. So I kind of, I wish there was someone who can say like men or women, like you're getting

divorced, you know, here the, first of well, here are the questions to ask me. And then afterwards, like, what are you going to do? to start your new life. Well, everyone's situation is very different, though, Kelly. Everyone's situation is very different. When does somebody hire a divorce attorney? Do you do this like when you're like still technically married before you've made the decision to separate or what is your advice?

I mean, I think, look, you talk to a divorce lawyer as early on as you can. I think that's the most important thing because, you know, and I tell clients when they go into lawyers. But what does that mean as you're still living together? Let's put it this way. if you've ever had the idea cross your mind of divorce if you've ever said it in a conversation

in anger or otherwise you should talk to a divorce lawyer behind your partner's back of course people do it all the time and I will tell you so I'll share another story with you represented a stay at home mom you know got maybe about 10 years ago now

she's in the office oh he would never know I was here blah blah blah find out throughout the course of the litigation two years later, he talked to a lawyer eight months earlier than she did. So when you think that they haven't spoken with anybody, this is part of the protect yourself first. Like you are first.

You know what happens in New York and Dennis you've suggested it is that what happens is that a lot of people, they go and they like go to talk to every single lawyer. And so then conflict them out. That's a dirty trick. It really is. Why can't you just, like, sit down with your partner before going behind their back and having that conversation? You know, you're here encouraging it's a situation.

Well, I mean, that sounds like it's pretty bad. I mean, I feel like if you have to leave, you have to go see an attorney and, you know, you can't, you haven't had that conversation with your spouse. I think it's, it's a betrayal. I honestly do. I mean, and for me, I mean, not a betrayal because that hasn't happened. But what I'm trying to say is if you feel the need that you have to. to go see an attorney before sitting down with your wife and having that

conversation, just like you had it about the pre-up? What if you can't have a conversation? Well, stand up. No, no, I don't mean it literal like that. I don't mean it literal. Like, what if you've already tried to the point where like you've gone to couples therapy, but then let's say it's the act of infidelity.

Let's just say that this is the situation. Well, then you're ready for divorce and that's a deal breaker for you, but I think that you both should know. And by the way, you okay, you cheated on me. So, you know, we're going for divorce. And for the person, though, who makes the most money has to, sometimes, like, I think in California, at least, you have to almost hire the attorney for your spouse. Is that correct? Well, in New York State, I mean, you know, there's an award for attorney's fees, but again, I think California may be the same. But I think, look, I think just to your point, just to your point, if you're thinking about divorce and you're saying these things in conversations or it's crossing your mind, you should absolutely.

Absolutely talk to them about the problems first. And if like you said, if they're in a position where they're that person where it's like, hey, I'm going to stonewall you or I'm going to place blame, you try, you get a professional involved, you maybe go to a marriage counselor, not maybe probably go to a marriage counselor or someone you feel like you can trust. And if you and if they're, because listen, in my experience, especially women, the women that I represent, that marriage has been over for years before. before they come into my office. Yeah, it's usually like that. So they've tried and they've tried and they've tried and they've tried and there have been conversations or they get Stonewall or there's worse yet, there's domestic violence. Like, no, I feel like you should just tell the person, by the way, we're getting divorced

and I'm going to an attorney. That's just me personally. Do women or men hire first? Like, what are the stats there? Like, I don't know the specific stats on that. Women, I've actually read women are the ones that file more than men. I would probably say there's a couple of different things. yes, Alexa, you're 100% right.

Women file more than men to the tune of about 65, 70% or so. But the funny part about it is most of those same women have given me signs throughout that their relationship has been over for years. It always has. Right, well, right. Okay. So, Dennis, let me ask you something. Does trial separation always equal divorce or do you see, like, people reconciling?

I see people reconciling more frequently, mid-year-old. stream of divorce litigation than I do in trial separations. The trial separations I find is one partner knows they want to be divorced. And the only way they're going to get the other side to, forgive the expression, but play ball with the process to not make it long drawn out. Is it say, oh, well, we may get back together again. It's just a trial separation. It's the only way they can sell it to them. In fact, I had a conversation about that just today with one of my associates about a case that we have. And it's, and, you know, look, people do what they need to do because every situation is specific. It's its own thing.

They do what they need to do to get through it. And Kelly, as you said, it's, you know, these are tough processes. There's no perfect path or right answer. You just do the best you can to get through it. You know, you want to try to get out, to come out on the other side with, you know, your kids intact, because I find with ladies that tends to be their focus, like more than the guys, like kids are everything, and it should be. And yourself always comes second, unfortunately, but yourself too. My dog comes first, so I get it. I have three of my own, so I get it. This is a great place for us

to take a pause. So do you guys have any questions about divorce? Are you guys looking for advice now that your relationship or marriage is over? Call us or email us. Follow us on socials. All the information will be in the show notes. So make sure to rate and review the podcast. I do part two, an IHeart radio podcast where falling in love is the main objective. My boyfriend's professor is way too friendly, and now I'm seriously suspicious. Wait a minute, Sam. Maybe her boyfriend's just looking for extra credit. Well, Dakota, luckily, it's back to school week on the OK Storytime podcast, so we'll find out soon. This person writes, my boyfriend's been hanging out with his young professor a lot.

He doesn't think it's a problem, but I don't trust her. Now he's insisting we get to know each other, but I just want her gone. Hold up. Isn't that against school policy? That seems inappropriate. Maybe find out how it ends by listening to the OK Storytime podcast and the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, my name is Enya Umanzor. And I'm Drew Phillips. And we run a podcast called Emergency Intercom. If you're a crime junkie and you love crimes, we're not the problem.

podcast for you. But if you have unmedicated ADHD... Oh my God, perfect. And want to hear people with mental illness, psychobabble. Yes, yes. Then Emergency Intercom is the podcast for you. Open your free iHeartRadio app. Search Emergency Intercom and listen now. Hi, I'm Jennifer Lopez and in the new season of the Overcomfit podcast, I'm even more honest, more vulnerable and more real than ever. Am I ready to enter this new part of my life? Like, am I ready to be in a relationship? am I ready to have kids and to really just devote myself and my time? Join me for conversations about healing and growth, all from one of my favorite spaces, The Kitchen.

Listen to the new season of the Overcomber podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. This is an IHeart podcast.