The Ben and Ashley I Almost Famous Podcast - Getting It Right This Time

Episode Date: January 9, 2025

Jennie is connecting with psychologist Dr. Hillary Goldsher to ask the most important things any divorced person should consider if they want to put themselves back into the dating scene.How can you not make the same mistakes? How do you know when you're ready to date?Dr. Hillary explains why it's so important to create your own new path post-divorce.  Email us at: [e-mail] or call us at 844-4-I Do Pod (844-443-6763)Follow I Do, Part 2 on Instagram and TikTokSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Let's start with a quick puzzle. The answer is Ken Jennings' appearance on The Puzzler with A.J. Jacobs. The question is, what is the most entertaining listening experience in podcast land? Jeopardy-truthers believe in... I guess they would be conspiracy theorists. That's right. They gave you the answers, and you still blew it.

The Puzzler. Listen on the I-Heart. radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, my name is Enya Humanzor. And I'm Drew Phillips. And we run a podcast called Emergency Intercom. If you're a crime junkie and you love crimes, we're not the podcast for you. But if you have unmedicated ADHD...

Oh my God, perfect. And want to hear people with mental illness, psychobabble. Yes, yes. Then Emergency Intercom is the podcast for you. Open your free IHeartRadio app. Search Emergency Intercom and listen now. I just normally do straight stand-up, but this is a bit different. What do you get when a true crime producer walks into a comedy club?

Answer, a new podcast called Wisecrack, where a comedian finds himself at the center of a chilling true crime story. Does anyone know what show they've come to see? It's a story. It's about the scariest night of my life. This is Wisecrack. now. Listen to Wisecrack on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. that you can find love again.

I'm one of your hosts, Jenny Garth, and I know that the path to love isn't always an easy road to travel. A theme that has come up on this podcast a lot has been about self-reflection and growth. That goes hand in hand with divorce. All of a sudden, you're forced to take a hard look at things, and sometimes the best way to make sense of it all

is through therapy. Therapy! Therapy! Therapy! I want to bring on today, Dr. Hilary Goldscher, an incredible psychologist who does in-depth work in the arena of relationships to have an honest conversation about all the things divorced people should know or be asking themselves when getting back out there in the dating scene. So with that, hello, Dr. Hillary. Hi, Jenny. So nice to meet you. Thank you. Thank you for coming on our podcast. My pleasure. We need you. We all need you. As you already probably know, this podcast is all about people that haven't gotten it right in love before.

They're divorced. Maybe they're a single parent, but they haven't given up on the idea of finding their person. So I wanted to chat about all the things or questions that divorced people that are ready to date again, should be thinking about or asking themselves. Love it. Sound good? I don't mind my alley. Let's go. Let's do this.

How do we heal from the pain of a divorce? Big question. I'm starting out swinging. Yeah, just a one sentence answer. No, I'm glad you're asking that so distinctly because it gives me a chance to say the following, which is that in my work, I like to conceptualize divorce as a trauma. And I, this is relevant regardless of the divorce, if the divorce is amicable and mutual, or if the divorce is high conflict and one person doesn't want it, right? The shift in paradigm and the resultant change in orientation and related stability and sort of spirit and soul is typically pretty shocking to both parties.

thereafter, particularly women, and that I guess is gender stereotypical, but it is often true in my experience. And so having an opportunity to think of it like that gives women going through it an opportunity to heal in a very intentional, prolonged way. And so when you think about, like, well, how do you heal? You begin by realizing that your heart, body, mind and soul are going through something traumatic and profound. I love that. I love that because it gives people the opportunity to say, wow, this is, I'm in trauma, like you said, and I need to be kind to myself in this process, take care of myself.

Yes. I like to call the season post-divorce, the quote, after marriage, because there's an entire relationship with the season of post-marriage, who you are, who you want to be, how you feel separate and disentangling finances and kid stuff if they're involved. It's an entirely other relationship that you, in some cases, get to co-create with your ex and in some cases have to create on your own if there isn't an emigable relationship. So it gives an opportunity to think about what do I need to soothe myself? What resources do I need to mobilize to help myself through? What are the different phases that I'm going through? And what do I need in each one of them to sort of help

myself develop into the person I want to be in this new season of my life? Oh, that's going to be exciting. We're going to get into that. But I want to talk about accountability. I think that how do we take our own accountability for the things that happen in the marriage and not just point the finger, not just blame the other party? So slowing that process down is painful but critical. There is absolutely room to identify the pain points, the frustrations, the hurts, the betrayals, the infidelities, whatever occurred, talk about them and hold them up and feel them in a safe environment with friends, a therapist, family, etc.

It's not only important, but mandatory, necessary. It is okay for part of the process to be anger. That's how we move through it. We don't dismiss it. We don't suppress it. We don't paint it with like a pretty color. We like dance with it. We hold it.

We decide what it's done to us and what we want it to do to us moving forward. So I could talk a lot more about that, but I want to really be specific about reserving a space for all of those feelings and being really deliberate about it. It's a critical part of healing. Having said that, it is also really important to say, well, what about me? What about me? Because two things can be true at the same time. You could have been betrayed and let down and hurt, mistreated. All of those things can be true and devastating. But there's some way in which we co-created. Even if the quote only way we co-created is that we allowed it to happen for too

long. We didn't advocate. We didn't say no more. We didn't say, you're not listening. I'm staying in it until you do. Right. And so being able to recognize what our part is in co-creating the sustained dynamic is critical for healing and to not repeating it in future relationships. So it's an interesting dichotomy, because if you were mistreated, disrespected, cheated on, etc., the understandable premise might be this is on him. I don't need to look at this. I'm just the victim. And in many ways, that's portion of that is true. But what I just said is critical or the healing is not robust and not and doesn't have longevity. We need to figure out what we co-created, what we in, what our input was to make this dynamic occur over and over and over again.

Yes. I always say, stop pointing the finger and start pulling the thumb. Yeah. And so it works for me. Exactly. It's really important to allow for both. There's something really, use that word again, robust and fulfilling about both, allowing space for both. We get to be mad and frustrated, angry, and hurt, and we get to say it to save others. But we have to also figure out how do we contribute. We have to. healing is not going to be complete and some version of the pattern is going to repeat again, whether it's in a romantic relationship or friendship or professional environment with your

kiddos, it will reveal itself again until we tangle with it. How do we know when it's time to date again? I mean, should people try dating even if they don't feel ready? Yeah. Glad you're asking that. because this is a topic where I feel like it's so important for people to practice relying on their own intuition because there's so many cliches about this question, well, you should lead a certain amount of time where you're not healed or you should get out there or you got to

get back out there. Get on the horse. Yeah. Right. Or you're not really prioritizing yourself or taking care of yourself. Neither of those things are absolute truths. There is no, I'm a clinician, I'm a doctor, this is what I do. There is no, here's the answer. The answer is within you. And your first guess at it may be wrong, right? You might decide, I'm ready. It's important that I get out there. It's important that I start this. And you try it. And it doesn't feel right. It doesn't feel fulfilling. It feels stressful or anxiety provoking or in some way uncomfortable. And so we check in again with our intuition and go, that wasn't a match. We pause. We surround ourselves with comforts and safe people and known quantities and we try, right?

And if the sort of edict that like, right, if you go out there too quickly, you aren't dealing with your pain and your trauma and you're covering up your feelings with other people and the dynamics that that can create, something to watch out for. That can be true. But allow yourself to discover that. It's really important post-divorce to start carving your own. own path. And carving your own path doesn't mean just an upward trajectory where everything just keeps getting better and better and better, more successful in me, building a tolerance for

carving your own path and stumbling. Oh, that didn't work. That didn't feel good. Actually, didn't make me feel more expansive and more grounded. It made me feel more destabilized and disoriented. Good. Good. That you were able to recognize that and have an insight and go back and try again. So my my answer is look within and take take your best guess and honor yourself as you do that. And if it isn't a match, if it isn't resonant, honor your ability to go back and shift it. It's so much of what we don't do in a marriage that doesn't work. Look at your intuition, honor it. Shift and change. We get no. I was going to say it's after that kind of trauma and you're in the grieving process, it's so hard to rely or trust your own instincts when they

come up, you know? So you're saying it's a good idea to really listen deeply to your own instincts. Yes. And to your point, which is so critical, when you're destabilized, which is going to occur post trauma or during trauma, right? There's something in my world we call like trauma brain, which is exactly what it sounds like. Like, can't think the way I usually do. I can't remember what my errand was. Can't remember my kid had soccer tomorrow, right? You just think and focus and orientation is off, either intermittently or like on the regular. And so to your point, it will probably be difficult to access intuition.

And so not stopping there, but saying like, right, my road to my intuition is a little rocky right now. It's a little stumbling. It's a little unclear. That's okay. I'm like going to, you know, sort of hike through it. and make my best guess and adjust as I recognize it either fits or doesn't because the extreme of that is to either stay completely paralyzed and do nothing or to not think at all, not reflect internally at all and just sort of act impulsively.

And sitting with that messy middle of like, I'm not sure, but this is my best guess about what feels right to me. And I'm here for myself if I find out that's not true. Hi, my name is Enya Umanzor. And I'm Drew Phillips. And we run a podcast called Emergency Intercom. If you're a crime junkie and you love crimes, we're not the podcast for you. But if you have unmedicated ADHD...

Oh my God, perfect. And want to hear people with mental illness, psychobabble. Yes, yes. Then Emergency Intercom is the podcast for you. Open your free IHeartRadio. search emergency intercom and listen now the super secret bestie club podcast season four is here and we're locked in that means more juicy cheesme terrible love advice evil spells to cast on your ex no no no we're not doing that this season oh well this season we're leveling up each episode will feature a special

bestie and you're not going to want to miss it get in here today we have a very special guest with us. Our new super secret bestie is the diva of the people. The diva of the people. I'm just like text your ex. My theory is that if you need to figure out that the stove is hot, go and touch it. Go and figure it out for yourself. Okay.

That's us. That's us. My name is Curley. And I'm Maya. In each episode, we'll talk about love, friendship, heartbreak, men, and of course, our favorite secrets. Listen to the Super Secret Bestie Club as a part of the My Cultura Podcast Network, available on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

Hi, I'm Janica Lopez, and in the new season of the Overcover podcast, I'm taking you on an exciting journey of self-reflection. Am I ready to enter this new part of my life? Like, am I ready to be in a relationship? Am I ready to have kids and to really just devote myself and my time? I wanted to be successful on my own, not just because of who my mom is. Like, I felt like I needed to be better or, work twice as hard as she did. Join me for conversations about healing and growth. Life is freaking hard. And growth doesn't happen in comfort.

It happened in motion, even when you're hurting. All from one of my favorite spaces, The Kitchen. Honestly, these are going to come out so freaking amazing. Be a part of my new chapter and listen to the new season of the Overcomfort Podcast as part of the MyCultura podcast network on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. podcast. Okay, can I just say I really wish I had you about 10 years ago because we're just talking about it now and it's taking me back to that trauma and it's I feel it in my body like that I feel tense and a little tingly and it was just you're so it's so true what you're

saying and I never gave it any of these thoughts when I was going through it. I was doing all the things. I probably shouldn't have been impulsive and distracting myself and blaming all the things. Yes. You're giving me the chills when you're talking about it because I have such a passion for women going through divorce and the lack of this kind of conceptualism that I think would be so useful and grounding. And even what you're saying that you did 10 years ago, none of that is, quote, wrong. It's just your perception and conceptualization of it at the time probably,

felt really internally disorienting and the opposite of grounding, right? That had you had the language and the sort of conceptualization that like, oh, this is okay. This is part of trauma. This is my trauma brain. I'm noticing it. I'm dealing with it. As I said before, I'm dancing with it. I'm pausing.

I'm reflecting on my intuition. I'm stopping. I'm turning around and making a different choice. It's not that had you had this information, you wouldn't have done all those things. That's trauma. We're not avoiding the hard parts. We're not avoiding the blaming, the distracting, the depression, the making of the wrong choices, the like disobeying our intuition.

We're still going to do it. This is trauma. This is trauma. So trauma is messy. But you had language to go, wait a minute, let me pause. Let me slow this down. Let me be more intentional. Let me rescue myself from this mission.

It's not working for me. Right. And so I just want to hold that space for women out there going through it. that having this conceptualization doesn't take away the pain and the journey and the tendency to do all the things you're talking about. It just gives a language to talk about it to ourselves so we aren't shamed and to rescue ourselves when we notice we're going in a place we don't belong. So good. What if the idea of dating repulses me? I mean, you. I remember thinking I would rather lick the bottom of my shoe, then go on a date. No, I'm not going to do that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. My answer to that is,

well, before I say this, people around you will encourage you to adjust your perspective in that regard and hold tight to what feels for current experience. If it feels repulsive, let it feel that way. And what it was going to say with that context is get curious. Oh, that's so interesting. That's so interesting. Tell me much more, although you're talking to yourself. Tell me much more. Like, why? Why? What about it? Like all the dirty details of what you're thinking. What makes it feel so awful and so intolerable and so completely unsustainable? Get really curious. Don't shame it. Don't try to shift it. Don't try to change it. Don't try to modify it. And I would offer conceptualize it as a season rather than a lifelong conception. Right. If it turns into a lifelong conception, I don't know, we'll think about it then, right?

But it makes a lot of sense that post-divorce and in trauma, particularly if you were blamed and shamed and disrespected and there was infidelity, all of that. And even if you weren't, that the idea of putting yourself in a vulnerable situation again and trusting yourself to show up in a way that is steeped in self-care is scary. And so having a lot of grace and compassion for yourself and allowing. that to be so. So my goal for a person sitting in front of me who had that going on wouldn't be to change their mind, but would be to get really, to build a relationship with that truth, right? To get to know it and follow it. Does it shift? Does it change? Does it dissipate? Does it deepen?

How interesting, right? And then if it becomes something that is completely unshakable in a over a long period of time, maybe we go deeper. You know, we start thinking about does this bump up against other experiences in your life, childhood dynamics, abandonment, being devalued, not seen, betrayed as a child or in other relationships. And do we need to look at that intersection and start to work to reduce the hold in that? My goal as a clinician is to help people access connection and love and community, assuming that's one's goal. And it is most people's goal. And so if it comes to a point where someone is really keeping themselves from those things, then we look at that. But that initial feeling should be paradoxically, completely honored.

Yeah, I think you're saying, get curious, ask yourself questions about things. I think for me personally, after it happened, I didn't want to talk to myself. I didn't want to ask myself questions. I don't want to trust myself because I was, I felt. damaged and hurt. And like I couldn't trust myself. Yes. Yes. I'm so glad you're talking about that because I think that feeling state is ubiquitous for divorced women. That's sort of like I don't want to get close to it. I don't want to feel it. I don't want to feel the hurt and I don't want to feel the self-blame or shame that we cultivate around what we did to contribute and where we are and

society's reflection about where we are now, all of that. And again, I wouldn't try to suggest that we can make that feeling go away, but rather, and this is the hardest part, but rather just get a little bit closer to it, a little bit closer to it. What is that? Why am I so afraid to go to the feelings? What's the worst that's going to happen? What do I think is going to occur?

You know, if I just take one step closer to it. And what I'm about to say is super practical, but I think useful, which is that when we are in avoidance mode of feelings, setting aside five minutes to sit with the feeling, literally, I mean, taking out your phone and setting five minutes and whatever feels right to you, whether it's journaling or talking with a friend or just thinking about something that feels tricky and then just being done with it, gently urging the feelings back, it's going to be there when I'm ready again. And just for the purpose, even if it doesn't change much of our feeling state, for the purpose of

interrupting our neural pathways that are well-traveled, we get the feeling and our immediate response is to not go to it, denial, suppression, avoidance. That's a neural pathway we travel over and over and over and over again. We want to interrupt that. So we have more choices for other things over time. And even if we interrupt it with like five minutes of like gentle thinking about it, we start to change our brain chemistry around it. Okay. Say it's time to date. We've gotten to that point. What do we need to do emotionally, physically, mentally so that we don't make the same mistakes? You know? Yeah. If we were married to someone who wasn't right for us, how do we know how to not do that again? Yes. So my answer is going to be a little tricky, but

based in reality and anecdotal experience and clinical experience, I suppose. That is not totally the question because that question is a pretty big setup for failure at the smallest event, right? How do I not do this again? And then you're at dinner and you say something to impress someone rather than being more authentic. Now all of a sudden you're doing it again. And you failed. Failed, right? And you go out with someone and you overtext them and are needy or clean. You're clingy in your estimation. You failed again. And so the question is not, how do I not do the same thing? The question is, how do I get, how do I stay close to my process? So I continue, continuously

evaluate how it feels to me and how it's going and where my blind spots are and where my vulnerabilities are and where some of my less adaptive behaviors show up and I can step in and interrupt them or correct them or repair and go back and try again. Right. So the idea that we can just, and I know you weren't saying exactly this, but the idea that we can just flip from like doing it wrong to doing it right is way too tricky. We're flawed humans. Yeah, that's kind of unrealistic. Yes. And even the best relationships, we have stuff. And we show up in ways we don't feel good about. And we're like, oh, I did it again. I did that thing where I snap at my partner. I suck. Yeah. I suck. Right? What's wrong with me? So the question is

just how can I track myself? How can I hold myself accountable in a gentle, loving way. And when I say accountable, I don't mean like not having a misstep. I mean like, oh, my feeling about going out tonight, how do I feel when I'm with this person? How does he make me feel? How do I feel when I'm sitting with him? Do I feel like interested and compelled? Do I feel bored? Do I feel a sense of like, I don't know, like brownedness, safety orientation, or does it seem like I'm not being listened to? Or like just getting curious about how you feel in scenarios with dates and men, right? And getting curious about how you show up.

Wow, I really talked a lot or I didn't talk at all or like, gosh, I was so triggered once we said, good night. All I could think about was in texting your calling, right? Just noticing the stuff that comes up. I think the edict people put on themselves is trying to avoid having any of these things happen. And when they do, feeling guilt and shame, embarrassment, judgment, self-pict. criticism, as opposed to like, oh, so interesting.

What's that about? And how do I feel about it? And that doesn't feel good to me. It doesn't feel good to me that I'm overvaluing if this person is going to contact me again, for example, right? What's that about? What is it connected to? How do I feel in my body when I think about it?

Are there resources, tools I can put in place to help manage those tricky feelings when they come up, via friends, via self-soothing meditation therapy, right? What can I do when I notice something is not serving me well? And so that is how we mobilize a path that is different, is staying present and in it and close to our feelings rather than some macro sort of edict that we have to show up a certain or a different way. Mm-hmm. Hi, my name is Enya Yumanzor. And I'm Drew Phillips. And we run a podcast called Emergency Intercom.

If you're a crime junkie and you love crimes, we're not the podcast for you. But if you have unmedicated ADHD... Oh my God, perfect. And want to hear people with mental illness, psychobabble. Yes, yes. Then Emergency Intercom is the podcast for you. Open your free IHeartRadio app. Search Emergency Intercom and listen now.

Hi, I'm Janica Lopez and in the new season of the Overcover podcast, I'm taking you on an exciting journey of self-reflection. Am I ready to enter this new part of my life? Like, am I ready to be in a relationship? Am I ready to have kids and to really just devote myself and my time? I wanted to be successful on my own, not just because of who my mom is. Like, I felt like I needed to be better. or work twice as hard as she did.

Join me for conversations about healing and growth. Life is freaking hard. And growth doesn't happen in comfort. It happens in motion, even when you're hurting. All from one of my favorite spaces, The Kitchen. Honestly, these are going to come out so freaking amazing. Be a part of my new chapter and listen to the new season of the Overcomfit podcast as part of the MyCultura podcast network on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,

or wherever you get your podcast. Hola, it's Honey German, and my podcast, Grazac's Come Again, is back. This season, we're going even deeper into the world of music and entertainment with raw and honest conversations with some of your favorite Latin artists and celebrities.

You didn't have to audition? No, I didn't audition. I haven't audition in, like, over 25 years. Oh, wow. That's a real G-talk right there. Oh, yeah. We've got some of the biggest actors, musicians, content creators,

and culture shifters sharing their, real stories of failure and success. I feel like this is my destiny. You were destined to be a start. We talk all about what's viral and trending with a little bit of chisement, a lot of laughs, and those amazing vivas you've come to expect. And of course, we'll explore deeper topics dealing with identity, struggles, and all the issues affecting our Latin community.

You feel like you get a little whitewash because you have to do the code switching? I won't say whitewash because at the end of the day, you know what I'm me? Yeah. But the whole pretending and cold, you know, it takes a toll on you. Listen to the new season of Grasas Has Come Again as part of My Cultura Podcast Network on the IHartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. When is it the right time to start talking to the new person about our ex or the bloody massacre that was the relationship or what happened in our relationship? or even if we have kids, like that's the second. I would think the second thing you would talk to them about.

But like, you know, what's the timeline for those kinds of things? Like, when do I talk about my ex? When do I talk about my kids that I have? Yeah, that's a good one. And I'll probably be a little more prescriptive about this. Look, I mean, before I say what I'm going to say, again, intuition, if, you know, it feels right and there's a sharing and, of course, Well, maybe it happens, and I'm a sort of spontaneous way.

And trust yourself if that feels right. And if you end up regretting it, that's an example of what we were just talking about. There's no, like, this is the answer. Having said that, I think in this arena, it's almost like PHA, like private health information. You know what I mean? I guess I think about PHA, right? You're not like sharing other people's health information without intention. And so think of it as kind of your private health information, right?

And you wouldn't give it to just anyone. It's a sacred part of who you are. And it's fragile, particularly post-divorce in the year or two afterwards, like 10 years afterwards, it's less so. You might be able to just make a joke about it casually to an acquaintance you just met, right? But in those first couple of years, it's really sensitive and fragile. And treating it with care, I think, matters to the healing process.

there's like a gravity and somberness to it that relates to that trauma we were talking about and not using it to garner sympathy or to fill in idle moments on a date. Right. Not giving up more of yourself too soon, you know, establishing a connection and a sense of who this other person is and determining if your fragile health information is, you know, sort of feels right sharing. And I was about to use the word safe. And look, it's tricky.

We've met someone two times, five times, ten times. Do we really know for sure if they can promise like a robust sort of period of safety? I don't, I don't know. We all know plenty of stories where it seems to be true and it ends up not being true. So I would just say proceed with care, continue to notice. How do I feel with this person? how do I share around them? How do they seem to communicate notions around their own feelings?

What does their emotional intelligence level look like? Right, right. Start slow. You know, start slow. You don't have to give the whole story up and you might say that's a painful period and I'm still processing it and like, you know, over time, perhaps I'll share more, right? If your body is still telling you, I'm ready here. And kids, I think I would look at it sort of two ways.

I think it's factually important to sort of say, like, I have a, you know, a 10, 8, and 5-year-old and, you know, they're the light of my lives. I have them half-time and, like, huge part of who I am and how I move through the world. You know, if that's true for you, I think it's important to have that truth be proudly conveyed. And implicit in that is that if you're interested in getting to know me, that's part of who I am. Right. That's important. So you, you know, weed out folks that are like, I don't want to be with someone that has kids that little. I don't want to be with someone who has three kids versus one, right, whatever it is.

So I would embody that part of your identity as a mother pretty quickly to support that part of the process in terms of your relationship with your kids, your relationship with your ex, how you co-parent. Again, you might give like a macro, like it's a work in progress. it can be tricky and it can be amazing and, you know, perhaps more information, you know, to come in the future, right? Okay, I love these answers you're giving because there are things that people can actually say. And if you're listening, I want to do this and I'm not even going through a divorce. I want to write these sentences that you're telling these responses down and just like have a cheat sheet in my pocket on my date and be like, hold one second.

Let me just check. Oh, yeah. It's complicated. And I'm. Yeah, my clients do that all the time. write down the sentences. That's one of the ways I love to work. Yes, yes.

I think it's nice to have something prepared to say and to not feel pressure to share more than you were ready and to really own and embody the truth without sharing too much, which is like it's tricky right now, tricky season. And perhaps over time I'll share more. And that's it. That's enough. That's enough.

You don't owe more and it reflects your truth. They're not shying away from it. You don't have to say your co-pict. parenting beautifully and over the divorce if you're not and you're not. But you also don't have to share and explain everything you can own. I'm in the messy middle. I know it. I accept it. I'm taking it on. And like more to come. So good. Okay. So say you have kids, right? I love though that you should pretty early on let them know your situation. I have two kids and two dogs or whatever because you don't want that to bite you in the ass if you haven't told them that's right

that's right and you own that you own kids it's a big part of your life if it's true is is with that you don't just say that but meaning the latter part but you just owning i'm like a it's an amazing part of who i am i'm a mom of two kids there are five and seven and what i got going on and that's it That's so good, it's so good. What, what, how much of a say should your kids get about you dating again? That's hard because it just, I'm sure it depends on like the age of the kids. I know when I started dating, I had young and I had a 16 year old who was very opinionated about every move I made. Yep. So I'm going to answer this in like gradients because you're right, it really depends on the age of the kids. So if you have little kids and like I'm, defining, I'm eliminating like babies and like really small, but, you know, if you're like in the like four year old to like, I don't know, like 10 year old, to the extent possible, you're

not updating your children on your dating life. There's really no need for them to know in my clinical opinion. I would only introduce the concept if and when someone important came into your life and you planned on introducing them, which is a whole other topic we can talk about. and I have a whole approach about what that would look like, but if they come to know you're out on a Thursday with Joe for whatever reason, I would just frame it as a friend and leave it there. There's no reason to burden young kids with adult information unless it's relevant and important.

And your date with Joe on Thursday is not relevant and important unless Joe becomes your person, right? And you have a much more deliberate conversation, which, as I said, we can talk about. So I'm saying a version of like, keep it from them. There's no reason for your little kids to know that you're dating. Your older kids who might even proactively ask the question or just come to know because they are conscious beings and stuff and going out, right? I think it's really important to have a conversation with your kids and not on the night

you're going out with Joe. Like, how do you feel about this? I'm leaving in 30 minutes. that like if they're talking about it or it's in the atmosphere that you sit down with them and go like huh like tricky you you're thinking about the idea that I might start dating and you're right and that has to feel like really weird really really weird and hard I know it feels weird and hard to me so I can't imagine what it feels like to you I want to sit here and like tell me everything you're thinking about it I want to hear it and just open up a space I mean if you have a kiddo who

will talk, right? I'll talk if you don't. But if you have a kid who will talk, great. And I don't like it. I want you and dad to get back together. I think it's so lame. I think it's so gross. I want you to leave me to go out, like all the things that you just validate. You don't try to change their mind. You don't try to justify it. But I'm here all the time. It's just two hours. You lean in. I feel so bad. Like no matter how often I'm here with you, it just feel so bad. It feels so awful. Of course. You wish your mom and dad were together. Like, I get it. Get it. And this is a reminder that we're not. I get it. It's so, I feel so emotional because I can just like remember all of this and I'm trying to navigate it the best I could

without these amazing tools. Yes. It's so difficult. But for the kids, and this is not age dependent, all their thinking, all the time, especially at the beginning is I just wish my mom and dad were together. And we are a version of over it because we're the adults and we've thought about it and we've been ideally intentional about it and we're working to move through it. We have decided or at least have been told that we're not going to be with that person. Our kids, they have no say and they don't get to move on like we do. They don't get to move on. It's a chronic trauma that their parents aren't together. And our parental edict is to like imagine or facilitate our kids not suffering, you know.

And so we just want to see, but they seem okay. Like I'm not going to bring up that this might be painful for them because they seem fine. In many ways, they are fine and functional and thriving. But they're never fine that their mom and dad aren't together. And it's never not a good time to say, I get it. I know that's still on your mind, even if you're 10 years out, you know, that you're a new person, right, that you're still, I know this still might bump up against this wound.

That's painful. It's never okay from your standpoint. I get it. And so the messaging in that moment about your date with, you know, Joe coming up is not about the date with Joe and trying to explain that it doesn't mean a lot. it's I know this matters that this is going to start happening and I know it matters because you're in pain and I see it and I feel it and I can't fix it but I want you to have a space to talk about it I want you to know that I love you your father loves you what I'm about to say

if this is all true there are many complex scenarios where it's not but and we are still a family because we'll always be your mom and dad will always co-parents and we'll always all have that connection. Having said that, it's not the same. And I know that's what this brings up. Yeah. Let's take a pause right here. I want to continue this conversation because there's so much more that I have to ask you. If you want to call us for advice, 1-8444-4-4-4-4-4-6-3, or you can email us at I-do pod at iHeartRadio.com. Follow us on Instagram and TikTok at I-do. do part two pod. And be sure to check out all the information in our show notes. Make sure to rate us and review us. I do part two and IHeartRadio podcast where falling in love is the main

objective. Let's start with a quick puzzle. The answer is Ken Jennings' appearance on The Puzzler with A.J. Jacobs. The question is, what is the most entertaining listening experience in podcast land? Jeopardy truthers believe in. I guess they would be conspiracy theorists. That's right. They gave you the answers and you still blew it. The puzzler. Listen on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, my name is Enya Umanzor. And I'm Drew Phillips. And we run a podcast called Emergency Intercom. If you're a crime junkie and you love crimes, we're not the podcast for you. But if you have unmedicated ADHD...

Oh my God, perfect. And want to hear people with mental illness, psychobabble. Yes, yes. Then Emergency Intercom is the podcast for you. Open your free IHeartRadio app. Search Emergency Intercom and listen now. Hi, it's Honey German and I'm back with season two of my podcast. Grazias, come again.

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