The Ben and Ashley I Almost Famous Podcast - Hannah's Confliction

Episode Date: July 16, 2019

Ben and Ashley talk to Courtney Robertson from Ben Flajnik’s season about Hannah’s mindset as we head into her final episodes. Courtney was the first Bachelor contestant to have on-camera sex, so she has some thoughts about this week’s episode.We try to figure out if there’s anything Jed could do to redeem himself to the audience at this point.Ben has a lot of thoughts on how Luke P. handled the premarital sex situation before being sent home last night on The Bachelorette. He shares his full dissertation on Luke P. and how faith is represented on the show.   Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Let's make it a date. RSP today for a Crane Barrel private registry event at Crane Barrel. This is the Ben and Ashley I almost famous podcast with IHartRadio. This season has left us so many topics to discuss. It has been one of the easiest seasons to do a podcast about because there is some things happening. And Ashley and I need a little help talking about them. We have everything from sex scandals to historic moments. But first, Ashley, before we bring in some of our best guests,

ever. This podcast will be full of them. Courtney Robertson and Ryan Sutter. I want to let you know what I did this weekend. Oh, yes, please. You went to Boston. I went to Boston to meet Jessica's extended family. Listen to this. So I'm an only child, meaning there ain't a lot of us in the family. Yeah. Jessica comes from an Italian family of way over 30 people that get together on a regular basis to eat and drink and be married. And I got to join them this weekend for the very first time in Essex, Connecticut, I will tell you, Essex is one of the coolest cities ever been to because it has so much history.

And I got to meet Jessica's incredible family. It was something to be remembered. That's awesome. Why did you go to Boston? I flew in and out of there and took the train. It's cheaper. Really? I want a budget.

Yeah, big budget. Oh, okay. Wow, that was really frugal of you. But yeah, it was great. Actually, I want to, before we begin our guests, I want to just ask you real quick. And I should have asked you last week. you've obviously met Jared's extended family right cousins and stuff yes were you nervous for that

was it exciting how did it go well i met like his family when we were just friends so there was no never nerves around that and then um his family yeah no i think because like they were all sprinkled in we never like had like a big get together where i met everyone but to this day i still feel awkward because like if i've only met a cousin or an aunt or uncle once i don't remember like their face, especially when I met a ton of them at his sister's wedding. And I'm like, Jared, you need to help me out here. You need to whisper in my ear who this is so I don't have to say. So I don't say like, nice to meet you again. You know, it's like, Jared, help me out here. But it's actually good that you met them in one big chunk. Was that, that was probably like super

fun. Are you nervous? A little bit nervous. Yeah, because it's everybody. And it's a big family. And they're Italian. So they're like loud and opinionated. And they do things in their life that I have never done like they sit down for a seven hour lunch slash dinner that's great full of great food and like they love it um but it went better than i could have ever expected plus it was my first time to like the east coast like connecticut i was going to say that's what i was excited for you to get that east coast italian feel it was awesome that is one of the most beautiful we went to a hotel or an inn called the griswold it's the oldest operating inn in the united states and it's the british commandeered it during the Revolutionary War

and used it as like their headquarters left sleeping grounds and it's still open to this day. That's really cool. Yeah, I got into it. Anyways, I just want to tell you that because it was a big weekend for Jessica and I's relationship. It went great. We're moving forward.

We didn't break up and nobody yelled at me too bad. So it was good though. I had my bridal shower. So we had a family weekend too. Ash, I was just not going to get discussed. I don't know. I had the most amazing bridal shower things to be inspired PR

It was at the Garland in North Hollywood And Jared's mom and sister Two of my aunts, my cousin flew in for And then I had like most of my bridesmaids Except for one And then all my California area friends Come and it was the most beautiful night ever The food was amazing

The company was even better They went around the table and they shared stories of me and Jared and how they knew we were like meant to be and it was just super, super awesome. Ash, do you feel loved right now? So loved. Good. You are loved.

You should feel loved. Hey, I'm super pumped for you, but we have somebody else that's been loved for a long time in Bachelor Nation. And she knows a little bit. We've got to talk to her about making love on Bachelor, on the Bachelor franchise. Courtney Robertson is on the phone right now.

now to talk everything Hannah B this week. Hey, Courtney. Can we get down and dirty with it real quick? Yeah, hit me with it. Okay, so you have been pretty open about your sex lives on the show. You said that you did have sex on camera with Ben Flynnick, your ex-fiance. It happened in the ocean. It only lasted about 20 seconds, you say.

And it was just the tip if we're going to be graphing about it. Was that you? I think the first, like, on-camera caught sex on the show? You know, I am not sure. It might have been. It might have been. The wave were pretty rough out there, though. What inspired you to do this?

It wasn't premeditated. I mean, I wasn't going into it with that in mind, but I was like, oh, once I got out there, it was like, ooh, that could happen. So here's my, I kind of want to ride off of that for a second, though, because there's a lot I want to talk about from this week and kind of what we're finding out, you know, from Hannah and her relationships. One of the things is I noticed at first with Hannah, and I've never really thought about this before. You know, she's making out with Tyler why they're getting a massage and she doesn't have a top on. And she feels at this point pretty comfortable just like rolling over, even though,

you know, there's cameras there and people working in the room. At what point do you just kind of forget and stop caring that the cameras are there? Just like, I've, for you and been in the ocean, you knew it was going to be on camera, but you just said, screw it. At that point, I had kind of already forgotten about the campus, and we were walking out, and he was like, oh, a million people just saw that. And I was like, what? Oh, my gosh.

You just kind of forget. I feel like you also kind of think that they're not going to air that. They're like, it's an 8 to 10 o'clock show on ABC. Like, they can't show much. Well, they're like, it's going to be blurred out. The cameras were so far away. and then it airs and it's like the promo and it's like on Good Morning America and they forgot to blur it out and I'm like oh my gosh calling producers like this is happening I think a lot of people think of that as one of the more like sex focused scenes from The Bachelor a couple years ago but it looks like Mike Fleiss went on 2020 in 2010 and he said that Bachelor Bob Ginny slept with, where's the exactly, he slept with most of the contestants, he said.

Oh, snap. I've heard rumblings of that. I've heard other stories, but, you know, whether they're true or not, but things that were happening and that just weren't aired behind, like, on dates. Right. I feel like they didn't show a lot of it back in the day. Like, nobody knew that about Bob. No. Who knew? But, I mean, Hannah's just like, hey, she's flying her free flag and the when mail this, and it's out there. I think times are changing. Well, so, Courtney, this leads me to really, like, digging in. So you obviously, it can kind of relate.

And I want to start, I have two really important questions that I wrote down for you. One is, what was the repercussions from you doing this on television? Did you feel like there was a lot of backlash, or was there a lot more support? You know, believe it or not, people didn't know until I wrote my book. I never admitted it. It was, I think, people just kind of, it was left to their imagination. So, but yeah, I definitely was let shamed a little bit. And it just was wild.

The whole backlash, you guys know from being in the public eye. I mean, you hear it all. So that never feels good. But I stand by it. I like to skate it. So I still do it. Let that fly. The second is then with Hannaby, I think one of the biggest questions and one of the biggest

things that I took away from this episode and kind of all season with Luke. And we can, you know, accuse Luke of a couple different things, multiple different things. But one of them is he's just not a great communicator. If a man came into your life, Courtney, and was dating you and you guys were getting very serious, and he has kind of this moral boundary or this really deep feeling and conviction on something, how would you want him to communicate that to you? Early on. I think he has been communicating it early on.

However, every single time he opens his mouth, he verbally messes up. He does not know the right words to choose, nor the tone, especially last night. Hey, I was secretly rooting for Luke. I'm just going to throw that out there, but I can't help feel a little bit bad for him. He seems a bit naive to the whole, you know, experience. but I don't know. I'll be interested to see what happens that the men tell all

and see if he, you know, apologizes or how he react. Time and time again, whenever I want to call him a dick, I can't because I truly feel like he's just completely ignorant. I feel the same way. I'm glad it's not just me,

and I think everybody's kind of piling on. I do feel bad somewhat for him, but I think he's crazy about him. I don't think they communicate well together And you've seen that the whole season. But, you know, that's the number one thing in a relationship. If you can't communicate well, there just seems like a little game playing going on there. I guess it's over.

I want to hear what you think the future of sex in the show could be then. I mean, you mentioned it, right? You said, Hannah B, let that freak flag fly. You had sex in a windmill. What is the future of sex and that look like on this show? We talked about last week where Ashley and I were like, you know, it feels like every season, sex is such a polar. topic and why is that.

And we know there's multiple factors to that. But what is the future of sex, the conversation of sex, and how many people are having sex with different people on this show? I think I look for it, especially with Bachelor in Paradise and, you know, people connecting after the show and gossiping and whatnot. But I think it's going to be more open. I do. I think I do think with the whole Me Too movement and stuff like that,

it's just people are being a little bit more open. They do need to be careful, but it'll be interesting to see. I don't know. I'd be curious to see what you guys think. Well, I mean, I think for us last week, Courtney, we took away from this saying that sex is obviously going to be talked about more and more, you know. And I think people are giving Courtney or Caitlin Bristow a lot of credit right now because they said, I saw a couple tweets saying that she opened up the door and started walking so Hannah could run. Oh, that's interesting. All I want, really, is for people to have the ability to talk about it on the show.

And if they want to partake in it, then that's, you know, their decision to make as a person. But really, what we're really hoping for is that at least it's something that we can talk about again, or at least for the first time. Because it's been so taboo that as a result, very unhealthy, we've kind of fallen in the gap, kind of like Luke P. the only way we talk about sex is in an unhealthy manner where we're shaming, guilting, or pushing somebody into a corner and we're unable just to talk about it to figure out what each other want, need, like, or maybe don't want to have.

What I think is interesting about this season is that it's about sex and religion. The other previous seasons have been more of like, and I never found someone, so I never did it. You know what I mean? And now we're getting into really, like, sticky territory because there's going to be people with a lot of differing opinions because we are bringing religion into it.

Oh, yeah, it's going to be. And I think it's different. Like if a guy's saying they're like, oh, I, you know, I did this and that. And it's like, there's a fine line. I will say that of bragging, you know, and that's coming across like that, you know. And hopefully Hannah isn't getting, I don't think she's getting shamed. Hopefully not. But it's definitely, I suspect some backlash.

But I think it will become more and more states than normal. And it's fun, you know, it's fun. And it's definitely, like she said last night, it's a huge, it means a lot to her. It's a big part of a relationship. I do want to read what a conversation between Hannah and Caitlin, because Ben just brought up those two being big figures for women and sex in this franchise. So a couple weeks ago, once the windmill teaser came out, Hannah posted on Instagram, I refused to not stand in the sun.

I refuse to feel shame. I refuse to believe the lies and the evil that flood in my comments. So she is getting, she's getting shimmed in her comments. I am standing firm and believing that maybe God wants me, wants to use a mess like me to point to his goodness and grace. But dang, it's hard. The amount of hate I and the men on this journey with me are receiving. It's chilling.

I know so many people want to spread hurt recklessly. We all fall short of the glory of God. We just happen to do it on, we all fall short of the glory of God. We are just happening to do it on national television. It's upsetting to get messages from Christians telling me I give Christians a bad name. And then Caitlin was quick to respond and to come to her defense by saying that women can have sex if they choose and women can wait till marriage if they choose. The point is it's their choice. And reading a lot of the comments going back and forth on Instagram and Twitter.

yesterday. I think the bottom line is, and Ben, you, you step in here, but it's God's place to judge, not, not Luke Peas. Not Luke Peas. Well, I think, you know, everybody has their own belief system, and I think it's better not to judge and, you know, just watch as an open mind. I like people who are open-minded. I tend to be a free spirit and kind of put it all out there. So it's just not for everybody. Not everybody's going to like your choices or how you live your life, but you just got to do it. I mean, just put it out there. I mean, it's a television show and sex is involved with multiple people. It's good. It makes for good entertainment. You can't deny that. Ben, I see

you just, are you writing something in your head right now? You like look like you're in deep thought like you're putting a puzzle together well because it is a puzzle right it is i mean cordon i i totally get what you're saying you we have and i think it's it's impossible in scenarios like this to to to really unless we've put the puzzle together there are so many different things happening right we have the ability for women to speak openly and honestly about their sex lives their bodies without shame right so we have that avenue we have the the moral compass that Luke P feels in his heart and that he wants his wife to kind of agree with. So we have that avenue.

We have Hannah speaking openly about her sex life and her freedom within that and her relationship God. So we have so many different things happening. And I think it's impossible to approach this subject without attacking all three and kind of processing them all. So what you're talking about, Courtney, is one thing that I think Hannah is doing a little bit that's confusing is in her statement like there. She's saying things like we all fall short and we need God's grace, meaning at some level

you need God's grace. We all do, at least if you have a faith system, the belief is that we've all fallen short and that we've all failed and we've all faltered, but God still loves us, which is a truth that I hold dear. But within that speech, she's admitting to an incorrect decision, which on the show, I'm watching this and can kind of get behind her saying, no, I feel good about this. Like, I am intentionally and consciously saying I'm going to have sex with these guys and feel good about it. That is the decision that I've made. And so is she saying that she's made a mistake by doing this? Or is she

owning it and saying, I'm confident in my decision to do this? Because there are two different things that are happening. And that's where the conversation is, that's the one part that's confusing me with Hannah. So there's one thing that I want to broach to you guys and talk about because I have a lot of feelings towards Luke and I'm going to talk about him later on the podcast and discuss kind of his approach to everything that I think is awful right first off and I can't wait to tell you what I do agree with him on but the one thing with Hannah that I think she has not done well at least during this is she's one I'm confused on if she's owning this or not because I can get behind somebody saying I haven't been convicted

of this decision and I feel pretty good about it okay well then who am I to tell you you're wrong. It hasn't yet been unhealthy for you. You aren't showing any, you know, frustrations in it. It's not been shown to be unhealthy in your life. So I'll get behind it. But now she's making these posts and saying something that is kind of counterintuitive that. The second is she's making statements that I think it's hard for me to get behind. Like my husband would never tell me what I can and can't do. I completely agree with that. Your husband should not be telling you what you can and can't do, but I don't think there was even, and I would assume it's because scars had been done so many times throughout the season and wounds had been opened up by Luke by just the way

he communicated with her. But as soon as he even started talking about it, I thought she put him on the defensive and he, and she went on the defensive. And instead of just like having a conversation about sex, it became a battle about what you're telling me to do. Am I wrong? No, you're kind of, You are right. I believe, like, I think everything Hannah said was great. However, it's just that he chose the wrong words. And I think that's what fired her completely up. If he was, like, super careful about his word choice and he had a lighter, more conversive tone.

Like, he, like, wanted to have a conversation and was less like, this is what I want for you. Then I, it could have been different. I don't. think she seemed a little bit regretful in that moment, you know? I mean, what if he was the first date? I felt like, why didn't he make that more clear earlier on? Maybe things could have been different. I think he was assuming because they share a similar religion and because they had bonded over that throughout the season, that he just didn't really expect her to sleep with anybody else. He must have been, you know, fed. He was probably like told that perhaps she was

being a little bit more promiscuous than he would have assumed. And then maybe they were like, it's a great time to bring that up and your morals about waiting until marriage. It just all went wrong with the way that he went about the conversation. And I think she was already, like, I think Jed already put kind of manipulated her into being, like, put the bad seed in her mind.

But I think she was super reactive. I was watching it like, well, just take a minute here. Like, even right before she was like, get in the car, she's like still fishing like what and he's like can i bray over you like i think she was still hoping that's that bad communication that he would fix it again i think he really screwed himself over when he said you owe it to me that's just an example of a word choice that if he was like i just feel like i need to get this off my chest before i go totally different than saying you owe me the chance to talk spot on i mean

So to break it down here, and like I said, we'll talk about Luke later, but for Hannah, I thought her biggest, I think the thing that confuses me right now is I feel like I don't understand where she lies on sex. Is she asking for forgiveness for it? Is she saying that she needs grace for the decision she's made and we've all fallen short and that her relationship with sex and the sex she had in the show is something that she needs to be forgiven for? Or is she saying, hey, I feel good. good about this and even though I'm a Christian and I'll have Christians that disagree with me. She's saying I'm owning the fact that I had sex and that I will continue to have sex and that I think it's the latter. But she's saying in her, but Ashley, that's what I'm wondering is, but she's saying it in her post like we've all fallen short. We all need God's grace. And I get that.

That's a universal message of Christianity. But why is that being associated to the sex topic then? she might be trying to justify a little bit. And, hey, I wrote a book about, you know, my sex life and my past. And I guess, to be honest, it's hard to put that stuff out there and talk about it. It is very taboo. And, you know, maybe there's a little, like, she's trying to save a little face because she's getting so much backlash. But that's part of this process, you know.

It's probably 50-50. I don't know. Let's take a poll. I think she's, I think she's probably confirmed. fuse, Ben, about like, she thinks that sex is very important in a relationship and helps determine who she should be with for the rest of her life. And she wants to know about that component of their relationship before she says yes to a proposal. But then she also knows that having sex is before marriage is probably not what the Bible says to do. It's a conversation.

that I cannot wait to continue to have. And one that I'm super thankful. So one, I mean, Courtney, I do want to say, as a Christian, thank you for allowing us to helping us be one of the first to talk about this kind of stuff. It's healthy. No matter what you believe and who you are and where you come from and what your convictions are, at least now we're talking about it. And I want that to continue.

And, Courtney, I will say, it took a lot of courage for you to write a book and also, you know, speak about your experience on TV. Thank you. That's very nice. say, Ben. Oh, my goodness. Well, I mean that. And it's something that I want to talk about. We've been growing up in the church

and then knowing people that haven't and that don't have a belief, sex has been, I mean, there's so much unhealthy communication around it. And there's so many assumptions and there's so much confusion, and we don't understand each other. And judgment and shame.

And at least now we're talking about it. So if you're a Christian and you're watching the show and you're like, I'm on Luke P's side, like abstinence forever, all those things. Well, okay, but I encourage you to at least talk about it. And if you're on the other side, I encourage you to at least talk about it. Courtney, you've done a lot to facilitate that. Courtney, before we let you go, I want to ask you, is there anything in your life that you're working on that you're doing

that you'd like to promote on the almost famous podcast? Oh, my goodness. You know what? I'm still doing real estate here in Arizona. That's going really well, but I'm actually working on with my life. life coach on some workshops and anxiety is a huge thing, you know, a lot of people suffer from. So I have a couple workshops I've teamed up with her on. So I just really want to put stuff out in the world that is helpful and authentic to who I am

without a code, you know, just to kind of open the conversation for a little bit more mindful way of living. So that's kind of what I've got going on. Where can people follow you? Rubbertson. Hey, Robertson. Shug Robertson. Yeah, I'm on Insta. I don't do a whole lot.

I just post what I love. And Ben, congrats to you. You're in a new relationship, too. I saw that. So, congrats to you and Ashley. I'm loving the wedding planning. So keep it coming. Thanks, Courtney.

I just want everybody out there to know. I know we said this last time you're on. Best Bachelor read out there, not here to make friends by Courtney Robertson. Check it out on Amazon. And you just mentioned, you have a new boyfriend. I'm so excited for you. I do. He's awesome.

And I am still debating if I'm going to write another book again. Goes back to the sex stuff. Do I really want to, you know, do a continuation and be that vulnerable and put it out there? I've definitely got some good follow-up stories. But, yeah, thank you so much. I'm happy. I'm always happy to chat with you guys. And hopefully we can keep the conversation going and positive. That's right. Thanks a lot, Courtney. Appreciate you.

Bye. Bye. I have a good day. Jared and I are all. all about making our place, the most HG TV it can be, the most resort-like it can be. We're far away from it being resort-like, I'll say that. But Cray and Barrel has been helping us inch our way there. We did the bathroom.

We made that all luxurious with Turkish towels and those amazingly thick, sturdy bathrobes. And now we are working on getting our bedroom put together in making it a place that we want to just crawl into even more. or at the end of a long day. My aunt just got us the most amazing gray flannel sheets from our registry. So I know those are a little hot for the summertime, but cannot wait to put them on when it gets a little bit brisk outside. And we have just the most amazing thread count sheets from crate and barrel on our bed now.

A big fluffy comforter with a duvet and nice throw pillows. Guys don't get throw pillows. They really just do not understand them. Yeah, Mark's here. shaking his hand doesn't get it. I was told by a guy this week that was in our apartment, he's like, what's with all like the layers of pillows on the bed? I'm like, it doesn't look normal if you don't have this like triangle of throw pillows. So we've gotten to some really beautiful, high quality, timeless, classic stuff that we know that we're going to use not just

this year or next year, but for a long time to come because crighton barrel quality is seriously on point. We have loved working with them with our. our registry, our wedding registry. Our wedding is just around the corner. It's so crazy. If you're trying to find a good place to register for your wedding, Jared and I highly recommend crate and barrel. So you go to crate and barrel.com slash wedding-dash-registry to get your registry started today.

Again, that is crate and barrel.com slash wedding dash registry. My boyfriend's professor is way too friendly and now I'm seriously suspicious. Oh, wait a minute, Sam. Maybe her boyfriend's just look. looking for extra credit. Well, Dakota, it's back to school week on the OK Storytime podcast, so we'll find out soon. This person writes, my boyfriend has been hanging out with his young professor a lot. He doesn't think it's a problem, but I don't trust her.

Now, he's insisting we get to know each other, but I just want her gone. Now, hold up. Isn't that against school policy? That sounds totally inappropriate. Well, according to this person, this is her boyfriend's former professor and they're the same age. And it's even more likely that they're cheating. He insists there's nothing between them. I mean, do you believe him?

Well, he's certainly trying to get this person to believe him because he now wants them both to meet. So, do we find out if this person's boyfriend really cheated with his professor or not? To hear the explosive finale, listen to the OK Storytime podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Hi, my name is Enya Umanzor. And I'm Drew Phillips. And we run a podcast called Emergency Intercom. If you're a crime junkie and you love crimes, we're not the podcast for you. But if you have unmedicated ADHD...

Oh my God, perfect. And want to hear people with mental illness, psychobabble. Yes, yes. Then Emergency Intercom is the podcast for you. Open your free IHeartRadio app. Search Emergency Intercom and listen now. Just like great shoes, great books take you places. Through unforgettable love stories and into conversations with characters you'll never forget.

I think any good romance, it gives me this feeling of... of like butterflies. I'm Danielle Robay, and this is bookmarked by Reese's Book Club, the new podcast from Hello Sunshine and IHeart Podcasts, where we dive into the stories that shape us, on the page, and off. Each week, I'm joined by authors, celebs, book talk stars, and more for conversations that will make you laugh, cry, and add way too many books to your TBR pile.

Listen to bookmarked by Reese's Book Club on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Apple Books is the official audio book and ebook home for Reese's Book Club. Visit apple.co forward slash Reese Apple Books to find out more. Imagine that you're on an airplane and all of a sudden you hear this. Attention passengers. The pilot is having an emergency and we need someone, anyone, to land this plane. Think you could do it?

It turns out that nearly 50% of men think that they could land the plane with the help of air traffic control. And they're saying like, okay, pull this, pull that, turn this. It's just, I can do it my eyes close. I'm Manny. I'm Noah. This is Devin. And on our new show, no such thing, we get to the bottom of questions like these. Join us as we talk to the leading expert on overconfidence. Those who lack expertise, lack the expertise they need to recognize that they lack expertise. And then as we try the whole thing out for real. Wait, what? Oh, that's the runway. I'm looking at. I can't have this thing.

See? Listen to no such thing on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to Pretty Private with Ebeney, the podcast where silence is broken and stories are set free. I'm Ebeney, and every Tuesday I'll be sharing all new anonymous stories that would challenge your perceptions and give you new insight on the people around you. On Pretty Private, we'll explore the untold experiences of

women of color who faced it all, childhood trauma, addiction, abuse, incarceration, grief, mental health struggles, and more, and found the shrimp to make it to the other side. My dad was shot and killed in his house. Yes, he was a drug dealer. Yes, he was a confidential informant, but he wasn't shot on a street corner. He wasn't shot in the middle of a drug deal. He was shot in his house, unarmed. Pretty private isn't just a podcast.

It's your personal guide for. turning storylines into lifelines. Every Tuesday, make sure you listen to Pretty Private from the Black Effect Podcast Network. Tune in on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. We're doing this in order now. Starting with Peter, Pilot Pete.

Pilot Pete has made the news this week. Lauren Zima opened up an article about Pilot Pete having a girlfriend before he went on the show so fans are emailing us reacting Twitter is going psycho saying hey

how is this different than Jed Oh it's a lot to talk about I agree actually but before we talk about Pilot Pete's overnight date let's talk about why you feel Pilot Pete's scenario of dating is different than good old Jedders

Well he broke up with the girlfriend before going on the show. So that is the biggest component as to why it's different. He also wanted to break it off early enough so that they didn't date too long. They didn't get too far deep. And then he wasn't leading her on. I think that he broke up with her in December because that's probably when the casting process

started for him. It was absolutely not when it was finally decided, like, that he was an official cast member. that doesn't happen until February for these guys. So as soon as he was part of the casting process, he was like, let's not take this any further. I got to break up with her now. It's so different. Yeah, I mean, he wouldn't have broken up with her

if it was the love of his life, right? And he was probably, I think Nick, Nick Viol tweeted last night, Nick Viol tweeted last night, that he was nominated. I know that they've hung out before, so he probably actually knows this for a fact that Peter was not. nominated. He didn't sign up for the show himself. He didn't have a motive like Jed did to get

exposure. So he was nominated. He was like, oh, man, once in a lifetime opportunity. Am I going to spend the rest of my life with this girl, Kaylee? Probably not. So I got to take this right now. Yeah. I mean, it's just different. Like, let's the timeline. December they break up. Like you said, he's not even chosen until February. He's nominated. It's not the love of his life. Jed literally got on the plane still texting this past girlfriend saying, hey, when I get back from this whole thing, it's going to be good. Like, Pete broke up with the girl. Like, and I've discussed this many times.

I have a few friends that have gone through some really big breakups recently and some really hard breakups. And the conversation we have often is, you know, how soon or soon enough or that you have to wait to start dating again? And really there's no answer to that. It could be the next day. Is that healthy? I don't know.

it's your own personal story you say yes or no of that but as soon in my opinion that you break up and that's been communicated you're free to start dating it might not be healthy but you're free to it there's no moral obligation and so if pete ended this thing in December and it starts filming in what like may march then he's fine totally different yeah he's fine okay so pete is the one that we assume we didn't get clarity but we, that had sex with Hannah twice in the windmill. We couldn't get much more clarity then. There's only one windmill.

There's only one windmill. She had sex with them twice. So their date, we'd assume went pretty well. We didn't see a lot because obviously a lot of the, this episode was taken up by Luke P again. Yeah. Um, but Pilot P and Hannah seem to have, in my opinion right now,

the most full holistic relationship. Okay. I can see that. However, I find his parts of the episodes to also be the least memorable for me. I feel less. I have less lingering feelings about them. That's a good point. Jared and I always say that, like, you can tell if a movie is really good or not based on how much you think of it after you leave the theater in the days and the weeks after. I feel like with Peter, I think about him very little after the episode is done. So that's a really good point.

I never thought about that way. But yeah, like I couldn't even hardly tell you what they did on their date. I just remember the windmill being really cool. Yeah, the sailboat. I remember the making out on the sailboat. Nothing else. Wow. Well, so Ashley once again stumps me.

We'll move on from Peter because what we know about Peter is this. It's a good thing. It's going well. They obviously have the physical connection. They're talking a little bit. They're making it a lot. things are going great for the two of them but it's not memorable and are we looking

for something memorable speaking of memorable we have Tyler C so Ashley there's something that happened to Tyler C that shook me this week me too me too this it's so interesting that you just said that that word choice was amazing because when I

think back on this episode because Ben and I get to watch it a little early I watch it on Thursday when I watch this episode over the past couple days I've been thinking of Tyler, not Luke. That was my long-lasting feeling from this episode. Really?

I mean, because I'm thinking about Luke, quite honestly. Oh, really? I don't know. I wasn't really thinking about Luke until today when I had to start talking about it. Yeah, I have a lot of feelings on Luke, though. Maybe I'm just passionate about Luke because it's touching so many things

that I'm really fired up about. But I agree. Tyler, see, I remember. And here's a couple examples, Ashley, and I think our viewers are listening. to this podcast will probably agree. And I'm going to talk about later on, you know, as I said, but Tyler C and Hannah had an adult conversation about sex.

And I don't know if anybody is comparing, you know, I know people are saying Tyler C was so respectful to Hannah and her, what she wanted, which I agree with. But also, the way the two of them discussed having sex and not having sex was how two adults have that conversation. it was open-minded, it was one of curiosity and understanding, it lacked judgment. And I don't care if you're a Christian or not. The conversation they had was a very healthy conversation based on a moral conviction of,

hey, I don't feel comfortable about having sex tonight. And they both said, okay, if that's what you feel, if that's what you think, that that's what your desire is, then as your friend, partner, and lover, I will agree to that. Opposite of Luke P, which I don't want to even get two now, but I thought that was a really good thing to see was a two of them communicating on such a high level.

Completely agree. It was the ultimate parallel situation, and that's why I was very moved by Tyler in the way that she reacted when he left that morning. She said that she had never felt that respected by a man before and she was moved to tears because of it. And I think she was moved to tears because of another thing too. I watched this interview from her speaking after Men Tell All just before we got in here.

And she said that going into the fantasy suite with him, she thought that they had a great physical connection, but she wasn't sure how much there was beyond that. And she said that after the fantasy suite, she felt so deeply connected to him that I think she started to stress out a bit because she was like holy moly he does have everything I need

I thought maybe I had this figured out but now this man is just so wonderful I don't know what to do there's a couple things that confuse me about this segment with the two of them one is when you see Tyler C and Hannah start getting hot and heavy these poor masseuse

like where do they go Like everybody else has signed up for this But you see if you watch it back You see the masseuse that's like massaging Tyler As he gets up off the bed She kind of looks like confused like what is he doing And then she just is in the corner As he like pounces on top of her

That woman was like wait a second sir I wanted to keep touching you Yeah like you're like what is happening here Like I'm going to have to watch these two people hook up Like how many times in their life have they had You know 20 people with cameras come into a room as they're trying to give relaxing massages and then two people start hooking up.

I bet they feel a little weird about this. How super weird. Before we move on to the Jed Day, I do want to say that I just reiterate the fact that I loved how moved she was by the respect that he gave her. I think it was so wonderful. And then did you see how nervous he got

when she was starting that conversation about going into the Fantasy Suite? I think he thought he was going to get dumped there. and it was so heartbreaking. Yeah, he's had a couple of those moments. He likes her. I know. Actually, I want to ask you, though, before we close up here,

so I took some different approach to seeing her so emotional about. Oh, you did. Tyler. I took it as she's emotional leaving him and not excited about what she learned because in her mind, Tyler was already gone. So she's sad because she's now realizing that Tyler might be it. yet in her mind she's already sent him home or thought he was the one so now she knows that she's going to be even more convicted towards the end and be more conflicted towards the end

than she ever does ever knew I think I kind of brush on that too it was a respect thing plus it was like holy damn I am super confused now yeah so it was weird for me because like you would think if you knew going into a date that oh this could be the person I spend the rest of my life but this is our night together this is going to be awesome And you go into the day and it is awesome. Then you come out the next morning, ecstatic, excited, at peace, full of joy, full of understanding, all those things. Instead, she has all those feelings, yet she's a little bit sad about it because she's like, oh no, this is going to get hard. I think it's going to get hard because she's really in the Jed, which leads us now to Jed.

Again, in my mind, Jed is even there. But we got to talk about it. Ashley, what was your take on Jet? trying to separate myself from him having a girlfriend and just looking at this in a more neutral way. I didn't super mind the fact that he said that he, what did he say about Luke? He said that he questions how difficult it is for her to give up things that are bad for her. I didn't have an issue with him saying this. I thought it was perceptive of him.

I think it shows that he understands her. He's trying to figure her out and that he feels open and honest enough to express concerns that he has about getting into a relationship with her. But I also have heard different interpretations of that. Some people think that that was like a little bit, a little bit controlling.

Yeah, I mean, we just heard Courtney Robertson used the word manipulative. Manipulative. Yeah, she said that Jed was manipulative and have speak to her. I actually don't disagree. At this point, it's hard for me to judge because I,

I mean, I said it last week. I can't do it. I mean, I can't because I said it last week after now watching back the season and now seeing when Jed, what week two said,

oh, I'm not, I was here originally a famous, but now I'm falling in love with you and all of us going, oh, that was sweet and honest and transparent. But now we know that it was just him trying to get something off of his chest

that was actually fake and manipulative. I think he's still doing it. And another thing is to me, here's one thing, Ashley. There is no man I will ever be threatened by that wants to talk about me on the night he's going to spend the evening with his fiancé. Yeah.

Like, he's going into this thing thinking that she's the one, yet spending their date together talking about another dude. So this is where- That's the thing that's bothering someone. And finally, actually, and I'm going to cut you off again because this is what fired me up. And then, good old Jed known all season to be this guy that's just been around. He says all of these things.

He doesn't, like, console or comfort her, even though I feel like she is answering his questions. He did feel cold last night. He's cold. He's sitting there. And then she goes, I just need a second. I need to get away and walk. Meaning, hey, dude, leave me alone for a second so I can breathe. What does good little Jed does?

He jumps right up out of his chair and follows her and then gives her this weird behind-the-back hug and like holding her shoulders like I don't know what to do with you right now but I'm going to be here because it seems like it looks right no dude either leave her alone and let her think or go up to her grab her by the shoulders and say damn it woman I love you I care so much that this dude is in your life

but all I want to do is be in your life and give her the biggest freaking kiss that you've ever imagined and say all of that gone you're my woman okay okay so this is where I play devil's advocates to my own interpretation and I wonder because he did feel cold, because he didn't make a move, like Ben just said,

was he trying to put doubt in Hannah's mind that they aren't meant to be together? He wanted to turn her off just a little bit, leave her with some questions because he was ready to be eliminated. That's the only reason. He's now at the end. He's like, oh, crap. Yes, top three? That's perfect.

Please make me top three. You know, get rid of Luke. I'll be three. I'll get what I need out of this I just feel like it was a weird time to like concentrate so much on another man and that's the only reason I could really come up with it unless his ego

was so bruised that the week prior he was sort of like equated to him at the Rose ceremony then we still had an ego issue you know you're on to something Ash I don't think you're wrong the poor guy was like oh crap I've got a girlfriend at home

and I'm a country music legend in my mind and I'm about to get engaged to a woman like I like but like definitely aren't isn't that I'm not that into I've done really good at getting this far how can I ruin it now

talk about another dude exactly exactly it's right out of the Bachelor handbook of how to ruin something so Ashley let me ask you before we move on to the big one Luke P it'll be our last week talking about him hopefully well probably not he's going to be at tell all

next week but But, okay, so answer me this. Is there anything famously, Jed came out two weeks ago and said, hey, please be patient all. I have things to say, but I can't say him until after the season. Is there anything Jed could say at this point that would allow the public to completely forget and forgive? I'm brainstorming.

I'm thinking. I can't really think of anything. Okay, so let's ask our listeners. Hey, listeners, if there is anything Jed could say this week or, I guess, whenever he gets let go or ends up with Hannah, that would allow you to forgive and forget. What would that be? Please hashtag almost famous podcast to let us know.

I'm, hey. Do you have anything that would make it better? I think he could admit that he, I think I could see him and Hannah sitting side by side. And I think if he was doing that and he said, hey, I went into this with a girlfriend. my intention was to come on this to get famous but I fell in love with this woman and as a result my heart is with her then yeah I think I could say okay I get it I think I think we can all get it

and perhaps forgive but I don't know if Hannah could ever forget and I'm concerned about Hannah and her trust with him yeah so if that exactly so she would have had to know going into it this story and get totally supportive and behind him and say yeah I knew this side of the story we knew it was a little confusing. We knew it was going to be hard, but we love each other. So this is what we chose to do. I could get that. Now, if they aren't together, I really think a lot of things are going to go in one ear and out the other for me. Because I just don't think there's anything he can say at this point that I would trust. And not that even it's important that I trust it. Like, again, who am I in his life? And like, he doesn't have an effect on my life. So I don't

really know if I even want to hear it because we know at this point he had a girlfriend. And he left going on the show with this girlfriend. So I feel more bad for the girlfriend back home that I do for anybody else. And then now I feel bad for Hannah because she invested her heart in this dude who is playing her. So no, I'm not okay with that. No matter what's the scenario,

I'm not okay with the second scenario. I've got two things I want to talk about before we move on from Jed. This is an interesting tibut and I have to be super transparent. I don't know the timeline, the details. But at some point, over the past couple months

Hannah's brother started following Jed's girlfriend Haley on Instagram so this leads me to think a couple things one was he doing research on everyone's Instagram and like

really tearing it apart two does Hannah end up with Jed and Jed was actually honest once off camera that he had a girlfriend that he left and then out of out of deep curiosity of course

Hannah's brother was like well let's check this girl out that could be that's always fun to kind of find out who's falling who I'm going to be interested how this plays out I hear it's going to be crazy from everybody's you know insights it's a wild

ending obviously we want entertainment but most importantly we want truth and we want this to end well for Hannah and so let's see how it ends okay there's one email from Andrea and I'm just skimming through it right now. I'm like, Andrea, do you know that Jed had a girlfriend? But let's read it out loud. I have

some thoughts on why I think Jed is the right pick. Hannah has been in two big relationships and it sounds like both of them were messy. Jet is the only one that she has had some messy talks with, even if it was about Luke. She got to see how he dealt with an upsetting conversation, how he communicates with her, and most importantly, how he recovers. Tyler and Peter have been butterflies and rainbows but that's not reality at some point she needs to see how they deal with tough situations within a relationship oh okay well andrew i guess that's what i was kind of saying

about how he just just was so honest with her last night about a concern that he had of hers the truth of it all is there's some fishy things going on with jed and i have be honest i've dismissed his relationship with hannah for the last few weeks and i don't like that i've done that but i watch show and 15 minutes of the show is worthless to me because it just doesn't feel real and I don't and I hate that for Hannah because I watch this and at this point in my eyes she doesn't know like she has no clue that there's something so unhealthy going on in front of her eyes and that's Jed right hey that being said I do feel like they do get nitty gritty they get a little bit dirtier in conversation that we see than the other two I think they have something yeah I think

she believes they have something and I actually don't doubt that he somewhat believes they have something. I think he's just forgotten that he has a girlfriend home, which is even worse. Yep. Yeah. It's terrible. Hey, Ashley, yeah, Jed's not healthy. We've got to get them right. You're pretty healthy. How do you stay so healthy? It's because of ritual. Ritual is a vitamin that is made for women. I love it. You probably should be taking vitamins to help your diet. You know, know that, you know, but there are so many options out there. Have you ever walked into a vitamin store? It is completely overwhelming. You're like, do I need this? Do I have that symptom?

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Oh, wait a minute, Sam. Maybe her boyfriend's just looking for extra credit. Well, Dakota, it's back to school week on the OK Storytime podcast, so we'll find out soon. This person writes, my boyfriend has been hanging out with his young professor a lot. He doesn't think it's a problem, but I don't trust her. Now, he's insisting we get to know each other, but I just want her gone. Now, hold up. Isn't that against school policy?

That sounds totally inappropriate. Well, according to this person, this is her boyfriend's former professor and they're the same age. And it's even more likely that they're cheating. He insists there's nothing between them. I mean, do you believe him? Well, he's certainly trying to get this person to believe him because he now wants them both to meet. So, do we find out if this person's boyfriend really cheated with his professor or not? To hear the explosive finale, listen to the OK Storytime podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

Hi, my name is Enya Yumanzoor. And I'm Drew Phillips. And we run a podcast called Emergency Intercom. If you're a crime junkie and you love crimes, we're not the podcast for you. But if you have unmedicated ADHD... Oh my God, perfect. And want to hear people with mental illness, psychobabble. Yes, yes.

Then Emergency Intercom is the podcast for you. Open your free IHeartRadio app. Search Emergency Intercom and listen now. Just like great shoes, great book. take you places. Through unforgettable love stories and into conversations with characters you'll never forget. I think any good romance, it gives me this feeling of like butterflies. I'm Danielle Robé and this is bookmarked by Reese's Book Club, the new podcast from Hello Sunshine and IHeart Podcasts, where we dive into the stories that shape us on the page and off. Each week I'm joined by

authors, celebs, book talk stars, and more for conversations that will make you laugh, cry, and add way too many books to your TBR pile. Listen to bookmarked by Reese's Book Club on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Apple Books is the official audio book and ebook home for Reese's Book Club.

Visit apple.c.O. forward slash Reese Apple Books to find out more. Imagine that you're on an airplane and all of a sudden you hear this. Attention passengers. The pilot is having an emergency and we need someone, anyone, to land

Think you could do it? It turns out that nearly 50% of men think that they could land the plane with the help of air traffic control. And they're saying like, okay, pull this, until this. Pull that, turn this. It's just, I can do it my eyes close. I'm Manny. I'm Noah. This is Devin.

And on our new show, no such thing. We get to the bottom of questions like these. Join us as we talk to the leading expert on overconfidence. Those who lack expertise lack the expertise they need to recognize. recognize that they lack expertise. And then, as we try the whole thing out for real. Wait, what? Oh, that's the run right.

I'm looking at this thing. Listen to no such thing on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to Pretty Private with Ebene, the podcast where silence is broken and stories are set free. I'm Ebeney, and every Tuesday I'll be sharing all new anonymous stories that would challenge your perception. and give you new insight on the people around you. On Pretty Private, we'll explore the untold experiences of women of color who faced it all. Childhood trauma, addiction, abuse, incarceration, grief, mental health struggles, and more. And found the shrimp to make it to the other side.

My dad was shot and killed in his house. Yes, he was a drug dealer. Yes, he was a confidential informant, but he wasn't shot on a street corner. He wasn't shot in the middle of a drug deal. He was shot in his house, unarmed. Pretty Private isn't just a podcast. It's your personal guide for turning storylines into lifelines. Every Tuesday, make sure you listen to Pretty Private from the Black Effect Podcast Network.

Tune in on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Ryan Sutter is Bachelor nation's favorite husband. He's done a great job at representing the franchise since the very beginning. His wonderful, beautiful wife, Trista, has represented the franchise as well for years, being the number one bachelor at the very first bachelor. And his family is stunning, so stunning, in fact, that Ashley brings him up sporadically at random times about how good looking that family is. I have to say. Ryan Sutter

is on the line right now. Ryan, hi. I have to admit that, and Jared will hate me for this, but also agree with me. When I saw you for like the first and only time at Jane Tanner's wedding, I was like, that man looks like Superman.

That must have been a while back. I think, and I think it was probably the glasses. It was Clark Kent. You looked like Clark Kent that night. Yeah, it was the glasses. I would have taken those off. It would have been just regular old me. Come on, Ryan. I'm definitely not Clark, Clark, Connor, Superman, and truth is there at least 85% of the credit

for our kids' good sort of photogenic appearances. Well, you see, just proving that you're a very kind, wonderful gentleman. No, it's not true, but how are you guys? We're doing great. Ryan, you've entered into a world recently that I've been in for last two, years, you have switched career pass and started a coffee company called Bearded Man Coffee. So before we really get into that, how has it been entering in the coffee world?

It's been a whirlwind. I mean, it's a fascinating world that, you know, I always just, like most people, went as far as just liking coffee. I get drank a lot of it. You can sort of learn to appreciate good coffee versus bad coffee. and that was kind of enough for me for a while. And, you know, I always sort of appreciated the ritual of it and getting up in the morning and making it in the way that you like to make it

and sharing conversations with people over coffee and all that sort of stuff. But that all is rather intuitive to most people. And then when you start to get deep into it, you know, where the beans come from and how the blends work and how they're roasted and all that stuff that I'm sure you're intimately familiar with, And it is a whole other world of education and learning and process and then throw on top of that trying to run a business, you know, surrounded by it. And it's crushing me to some degree. But again, I mean, they say the number one thing if you're going to start a business is to be your own customer.

And at least I have that going for me. So I'm going to start. I'm starting there and I'm trying to build from that. Can you describe the flavor of your coffee? The what? The flavor. You said that you have to be your biggest fan, so now I want to know why this coffee is your favorite.

Well, so I actually didn't start this company. It started a little over a year ago with these two dudes that were appropriately, largely bearded, but hugely passionate coffee guys. I mean, at the time, I'm growing a beard at the moment, and it's in this sort of awkward, itchy phase, which makes me want to shave it every second. But you have to be a bearded man now. Yeah, I'm doing my best at it.

But anyway, these guys started it, and they have our roaster, this guy Chad, is he's the guy, like the mad scientist guy. So he's the one with the really great, the ability to find the right taste profiles and all this sort of stuff. So we have all kinds of different stuff from single origin to special blends. And then we have a line of infused coffees that have, like we have a vanilla cayenne and a chocolate and a, you know, a hazelnut vanilla and all these ones that have kind of oils, not a lot of calories or sugar, but these different oils infused into the beans, which is fun. I do that sometimes on the weekend. I love just opening up the bag and smelling the smell of those and then grinding them and that kind of stuff.

I remember I used to smell that at the grocery store When my mom used to buy them when I was little I was like then we just stick my nose in the bag It's so good I know I know and it's a fascinating science Behind creating these different taste profiles And it's you know similar in a lot of ways to wine Where you half the time I feel like they're making up the flavors

Just because they sound appealing to people So you know it's almost like your horoscope Where they just they just put it down and you're like, oh, yeah, that's totally, that's totally me. Well, really, it's totally like 80% of the world. I feel like that's kind of, I don't want to be giving away trade secrets here, but I feel like to some degree, that's how they do coffee and wine and stuff. They just come up with sort of fancy ways to say it's buttery and oaky

and, like, there's a hint of, you know, vanilla or something. But the infused ones, the infused coffee beans definitely have a flavor that you can pick up. Well, like Ben's coffee, your question, I feel like I just trampled on there for like no, but like your coffee, uh, like Ben's coffee, yours gives back. Can you explain? Yep. Yeah. Ours gives back to the forest. So we, um, these, you know, these guys approached me because of my sort of wildland fire experience and they were looking for some ways to give back in that regard and they were already doing these, this tree planning initiative. And so it goes under the philosophy of, I don't know who said it, but essentially, you know, you know when you're kind

of a wise person, when you're willing to do something that you know you won't be able to necessarily fully take advantage of, like planting a tree, by the time those trees are at the point where we're enjoying their shade or whatever, we may be long gone. So that's kind of the philosophy behind that and, you know, forest rejection. generation and just trying to be environmentally conscious, pay attention to our footprint and that sort of stuff, and then also refer to our love for the wilderness and that. So it seems like an apropos place to donate some time and money. Ryan, I mean, what is your official role with this company? well it's turning into CEO owner and CEO it was initially kind of just influencer and then it became sort of business development and then I like to call myself sort of a global opportunity explorer because I was basically just reaching out to people all over the place trying to figure out how the coffee industry works but it's starting to settle down as we we mature as a company and try to grow.

We're trying to place people in their positions of strength. And not that running the company is necessarily my strength, but I am super passionate about it and I enjoy it. And I have some education that lends to the skills that needed to do that. So I'm finding myself in a little more of an administratively responsible role than I had initially intended. I mean, to be honest, initially I was hoping I was just going to be able to tell people about the coffee and that that was going to be what I did. And we would become wildly successful and I'd be able to retire and just drink coffee all over the world. And that was my dream that was quickly, I quickly realized wasn't going to happen overnight.

I'm not surprised. I'm not surprised. I mean, Ryan Sutter has been known to do some incredible things in the world. world. Not only are you the winner of Trista Wren, now Trista Sutter's season of The Bachelorette. You're a Colorado firefighter. You're the father to Blakesley and Maxwell. You're also on Ninja Warrior. You had a stint in the NFL. I mean, your resume at this point is long. It's adventurous. It's awesome. You're every man's man. I remember I stopped up at your house a few years ago and you're leaving the next day to run 100 miles literally run 100 miles

Ashley how does that make you feel um I want to die that may have been a mistake I was that I might still be hurting from that it was two years ago but that's right that was you know what it is yeah I feel like maybe you guys will get to this point in your lives where you you get to this point where you feel like you've accomplished a lot of things that you wanted to accomplish growing up and you've kind of You've navigated your way through life well, and I'm certainly proud of who I am as a person now and what I've done, but I need to figure out how to live up to that first half of my life and expand upon it in the second half of my life where I can't run 100 miles anymore, and I can't play in the NFL, and Ninja Warriors is difficult. And so all these things that were kind of the low-hanging fruit in life, or you just, for me anyway, I was always good at just being stubborn and persistent and working my way through these things in a lot of ways sort of physically.

And that becomes less and less of an option. So things like Beard & Man Coffee are my sort of new avenues of expression, or that's where I'm hoping to find new avenues of expression, where I can impart the wisdom of the past, the things that I've learned through all those experiences that we talked about, and try to redefine who I am and come up with a satisfying future for myself. And that's a real, sort of a real challenge in life, because I'd imagine most people go through. I read an interesting article the other day about how the historically life expectancy was about my age, which is I'm almost 45.

And so now that's like half life expectus to me. So people are biologically not always prepared for the second half of their life when they're kind of running down. And you're having to figure it out. And that's sort of the source of midlife crises and all that sort of stuff. And so I'm right there. I'm at that place where I'm exploring for new avenues. And it's exciting, but it's also kind of.

scary because I can't just fall back on what has traditionally worked for me in the past. Yeah, that's really interesting, actually. That midlife crisis is like a real thing, and it's biological. That's super interesting. Before we wrap up with you, we got to ask you if you've been watching this season. I know that Tristice says that she's just like the biggest bachelor, bachelorette fan now. She's like, I don't even know that I was part of the show sometimes anymore. I just watch it like a fan.

So what do you think? What do you think of the Loop P situation and who do you think that Hannah should end up with? I can provide very little insight here because I haven't had time to watch much of it because I've been trying to do all the coffee stuff and it's extending into the evenings. So the only thing I know about it is what I hear from Trista. And I think she tries to be understanding. It's Becca. Is that a name? Sorry.

Nope. Hannah. Sorry, see, that's how bad I am. All right, Ryan. I think give her the benefit of the doubt, and there's a lot of generational differences between her and us, and so we don't, I don't really understand where she's even coming from as a young woman and how things have changed since I was in that phase of life. So I hope she's enjoying the process, and I hope it works out for her in the end, we always hope

that. But, you know, when it comes down to like Ben, for example, he was a Colorado guy, and so that was like, all right, I'm going to watch that one. But this one, I just haven't had the time. It just hasn't worked out in my life to really pay attention to, obviously, since I don't even know. I don't know who Luke P is, and I didn't even know who, what Hannah's actual name was. So I apologize.

I'm definitely a fan of the franchise. It's changed my life forever. And, you know, everyone who we have ever met through that process has been a wonderful addition to our lives, but I just am not very informed these days. That's totally fine. You guys can check out bearded mancoffee.com, and don't forget that. With every bag of coffee, they make a donation of 5% of all sales to the National Forest Foundation, and every dollar donated a tree will be planted.

Make sure that you buy a bag of generous and a bag of bearded man coffee. Perfect. Bye, Ryan. Thank you. Thank you, guys. Thanks, Ryan. Have a great day. All right. See you guys. You know, Ryan lives in Vale. Vale, there's some nice people in Vale. Phil's doing all right for itself. If you live in Vale, you're doing pretty well.

It got a pretty ritzy reputation. It does. But he's saving money. I wonder if Ryan is using honey. I'm sorry about something we can all agree on. Saving money. Honey is free browser extension that scans the web for coupon codes and discounts while you shop online. Hey, Ash, I remember growing up, my mom used to, I think it was on Tuesdays,

have all the coupons from the magazines at the house, and she used to clip them. She used to clip coupon, and we used to take them to the store. It's a tedious job because then we get to the line and we have to sort through them all. Hey, Honey comes in and says, no, let's automate this.

Honey automatically applies the biggest savings to your car at checkout. It's genius. It's like magic. It's really freaking awesome. I don't know how this idea hasn't existed for much longer than it has. That's kind of how I feel about most things

that are successful is, oh, did I not create this? And this one is definitely one of it. It works on over 20,000 sites like Amazon, Nordstrom, J-Crew, Nike, Best Buy, Target, Macy's, and more. It takes zero effort to install just two clicks and you'll start saving anytime you shop. All right, listen, I don't care how much money you make.

Our listeners, you're doing great for yourselves. I mean, you're rolling and grooving and moving in this world making Buku bucks It doesn't mean that you don't save Can we all agree on that? Like saving money is important What did you just last save on?

I have been saving $15 on a new bed frame last night Using honey on Amazon So I'm getting a new bed frame We just bought a house in the mountains Or I guess my buddies and I did Oh holy moly Yeah we just closed on it

It's a house in the mountains You can actually rent it actually rent it actually It's going to be up for rent Yeah, so we're going to use it a couple times a year. We're going to rent it. But we bought a new bed frame. We save 15 bucks using honey on Amazon. You might think it sounds too good to be true like it's free and it saves you money.

But what's the catch? Well, there's no cash. It's pretty simple. When you use a coupon provided by honey, they'll earn a small commission from the merchant and they pass along some of the savings to their members. So it's a win-win for everyone. Look, there's really no reason not to use honey. It's free to use and it's easy to install on your computer and just two clicks.

Take it from me. Take it from our listeners. Get honey for free at join honey. com slash famous. That's join honey. com slash famous. Honey, online savings simplified. We just previously before the spot talked about, talk to Ryan Sutter, a man that

communicates well. Now let's talk about a man that communicates poorly. Luke P. We've talked about before on the podcast. Luke P. is not going to get a place on this podcast that we're just going to destroy him. Twitter has done that. The public has done that.

A lot of fans have done that. This podcast is not going to destroy Luke P as a person. Just not something that we necessarily want to get into. It's not fun. It doesn't make us feel great. But we want to discuss our opinions on the behaviors being done. And that's exactly what we want to discuss today. Hey, Ashley, let's start before we get into it.

I have a few things to say about Luke. Okay, go for it. I want to hear from you first. I thought the first part of this date was good. Like, it seems like it was going in a way where I was like all of a sudden going, holy cow, Luke Pete could be it. Yep.

And he's still the best kisser in her opinion. It felt like a relationship that was going to last past this week where like the Jed relationship felt. make it could end at any moment. Could you imagine if they didn't have this conversation, how the date could have ended? I mean, I think that the conversation was probably inevitable

once the fantasy suite, they went in the doors of the fantasy suite, fantasy suite if they got to that point. But a good thing had happened on camera, right? What if that happened in the fantasy suite in private? Then we wouldn't have been able to see all this. Well, Ashley, here's what I want to jump into then.

Because we can talk about the first part of this date. It really doesn't matter because the last conversation is the moment that really matters to the listeners and to us. Luke P confronts Hannah once again on her sex life. And after last week, we had some amazing conversations about sex. I mean, Twitter was really, really healthy, coming back to me about convicting me of, hey, you're a Christian, the Bible says X, Y, Z, and you're saying, hey, let your freak flag fly and do what you got to do.

and some really healthy conversations back and forth and ones that I really enjoyed having both publicly and privately offline with some of you. I want to continue that this week. Ashley and I've talked extensively about this whole scenario, but this is one that we want to sit in now. This is the last week we're going to really probably talk about Luke P and sex and how Christians view sex.

And I had my mom actually watch the episode and get her opinion because my mom's going to come about it from a lot more conservative approach than I would. And here's what we came up with. You know what? As we spoke about earlier, Luke P is terrible at communicating, first off. But I think he really went into this believing that Hannah was going to be his wife. And so we felt like this conversation was needed.

Now, a caveat. If I'm about to marry somebody and I haven't talked to him about my preferences on sex, that's a problem. So I don't blame Luke P for wanting to have this conversation. And I think his lack of ability to communicate has thrown a cover over what he was actually trying to say, which was, hey, this is how I feel about sex. This is what I desire for sex. And in any circumstance, man, woman, whatever, same sex couples, you should have these conversations. And I don't think he was wrong for wanting to have it.

I thought Hannah had probably, like we said, had wounds opened up earlier in the season so that when he started talking about this, she resorted back to those thoughts when he did shame her, when he did guilt her. And so she reacted in a defensive manner, which put him on the defense and put her on the defense and they just won't add each other. And that's one thing that was sad because I do think they could have had a really healthy conversation about this. but what Luke did is once again he approaches this and in a very i would almost say chauvinistic way yes his toxic masculinity has covered up the core thing that he was trying to say which is hannah i love you so much and as my future wife i want you healthy i want you thriving i want you feeling joy and feeling hope-filled. And for whatever reason, he feels like sex is taking that away.

Now, here's my question, though. And it's in a style he's approached as a beginning. Here's the hardest part for me. Is any Christian can do this. Don't let him do this to you. You can throw the Bible in the face and say, there was a tweet that Luke P started to give last night, and it said, I just want people to hear biblical truth.

Now, Luke, I get it. I think your heart is probably in a decent place, good place. I don't know your heart. But let's not throw the Bible in people's face as a weapon to shut down the conversation. You were wrong, brother. You were wrong in how you approached Hannah. You came out with judgment and criticism. And when Luke has judgment, criticism of isolation and anger and any type of discord,

resolve around those, done anything to perpetuate truth? When has biblical truth ever been shared successfully through the motivation of shame and guilt? And now, don't for a second tell me that he didn't come about this from a place of shame and guilt. He used words like, you owe me. He used words that reference that if she did mess up, oh, don't worry, holy old Luke will be there to catch you. Luke, humble yourself. confront whatever insecurities are going on in your own life realize that yes god does love you he also does love hannah and that yes sex is a massive topic that christian non-christian male female

whatever you identify as we are talking about and we are discussing allow that discussion to happen do not put the conversation in a corner from the beginning and that's exactly what you did You mentioned sex. You surrounded it with a bunch of negative terms and negative connotations, pushing Hannah into a corner to allow her to get defensive instead of opening up and saying, hey, as a Christian, my conviction is that sex before marriage is not appropriate, it's not healthy, it's not good. And as a woman I love and my future wife, can we discuss what this looks like for you? Instead, you assumed because you assume that her morals are the same as your morals. and as a result, it ends with you looking like a fool, and also having to use your good old wholesome desire

to share biblical truth as the end all be all, and quite frankly, I'm sick of it. Because the gospel says this, that yes, Jesus does love, he loves all, he sacrificed all for every single person walking the earth, that God does love you. I know that, and his desire is never, to reject anybody.

The only thing that he rejects is rejection. And quite frankly, you open the door up for rejection immediately and it's unhealthy and it's unsafe.

And I have to convict you of checking yourself now to make sure that you aren't throwing the first stone. Sermons by Ben. That was so great. I don't want to elaborate,

but I do have two questions for you. Earlier I said that Luke should leave the judging up to God. After hearing that, I feel like I don't want to even say that God's judgmental. I think there's things that God,

I mean, this is my belief and I'm not going to... Yeah, I was going to say, what do you personally interpret? I personally interpret this, that there are things in our life that Jesus has opened up to be the most wise way to live on this earth.

We talked about last week, sex is powerful. I don't think there's any person in this world that's going to say that sex is not powerful. It is powerful. Christian or non-Christian. And I think we have to confront as humans what is the healthiest way for us to practice and participate in sex. Now, outside of that, I would have to know your history, your traditions, your backstory, your story leading you to this day to even come to a place to understand why you choose to have sex or not to have sex. I would have to know your story really on every topic to know what convicts you and what doesn't.

Now, we can surround it by saying, yes, the Bible says do not have sex. Now, I don't want to be, I don't want to generalize this, but the Bible says a lot of things that we don't follow to this day. And I think that leads me. And unfortunately, in this world, Christians have grouped drugs, sex, and alcohol in the same grouping and forced us to feel shame even talking about sex. And so, yeah, we can dismiss the conversation by saying the Bible says a lot of different things that we don't follow.

We can also dismiss the conversation. by saying that the Bible says do not have sex. We can shut down the conversation using your Trump card, the Bible, or God in a second. That's not what I'm interested in. I'm interested in. I'm interested in understanding who you are and what you're doing and why you're participating in things you are. Outside of that, I have no place to judge you.

I have no place to react to you. I need to know you first. And so Luke or anybody's approach here, and I challenge all of us to be curious. first to try to understand first to ask questions first and then you are more than welcome to share your opinion second but until you understand who i am and where i've came from and what i've been through you have no right to criticize me and i hope that's what hannah's saying i think that's what Hannah's saying, because I hope that one day Hannah finds a man that loves her so much and respects her so much that both of them can hold each other accountable to things that are

healthy and not healthy in their lives and in their relationships. I hope that when she says no man will ever tell me what to do, I hope she means that outside of the confines of a loving, respectful, healthy marriage that is keeping each other supported and accountable. But I don't think Luke coming about it as a place of this is right and wrong, and that And I know right and wrong, and I want to share biblical truth with you. And don't worry, when you slip up, I'm the best guy ever. So I'm going to be there to catch you because I got you, girl. I hope he knows that that comes from a place of ego and insecurity.

And he needs to check himself. And I would tell him to out to his face right now if he was on this call. He needs to check himself because that got really scary really quickly. It got really weird to watch. I have one last thing to talk about because you just mentioned it briefly I love how Hannah pointed out that pride is a sin

just as having sex before marriage is a sin and he has demonstrated that and plenty of other sins throughout the season but it was sex that he decided to harp on well and I want to say this this is where maybe I want to talk to Hannah is because she says those things

and I agree with her right we could all point out each other's sins We could all point out the planks in our own eye and the things that we're missing in ourselves. And we could also cast the stone to every single person around us and say, hey, you're doing this wrong and you're doing this wrong. That's easy. But that's not hard to do.

We're all doing stuff wrong. Christian, non-Christian, you know, the Pope to Mother Treaties. We're all messing up. But I'm wondering, one thing I can't do, and there's a great little section in the Bible that talks about this, is by God's grace, we are all forgiven, at least in the Christian belief system, that we are all for. fully forgiven by God's grace for everything we have done and will do. That's how big God's grace is. And that's how much he loves us. But it also says, shall we just go on sinning then?

If we're already forgiven, should we just let ourselves lose? Of course not, because it's not healthy. It's not good. It's not cultivating a life of joy of fulfillment. It's not allowing us to be the biggest best versions of ourselves in this world if we just keep on sinning going, don't worry, God's forgiven me. So the thing that I'm confused by, and I'd have to ask Hannah, is when she tells Luke, hey, I'm good with this, then as a friend of hers or as a participant, I go, okay, I don't know your backstory, Hannah.

If you're good with this, and this isn't something that's taking away from your life and that you don't see as an issue that you haven't been convicted of, then I don't have a place to make you feel shame-filled for it. But in your tweets or in your Instagram captions, if you're saying, I do feel shame for this, I've messed up, I keep messing up, but God's forgiven me, then I want to come beside you as a friend and say, well, then how do we help you stop making decisions that are not making you feel like the best versions of yourself? So that's where I'm confused. That's where I'm getting the miscommunication from her is it feels like at one point she's saying one thing in confidence, and the next point she's saying something like, no, I know I'm messing up, but don't worry, God's forgive me. I say, yeah, of course he has.

Of course, God's forgiven you. But is it healthy? Is it good? Is it right? Ben, thank you for all that. It was really, like, I just wanted to sit here and listen. It was really perfectly articulated. And to end this episode on a fun note.

That wasn't fun. Are you right? No, no, that's great. It was super fun. Super fun. But, like, way to change the topic. We have a winner for the What's in Your Console email challenge. Oh.

back yeah this is from ariel she says she has wax strips i keep wax strips in my center console so i can wax my eyebrows on the go i get in the road grab a strip turn up the heat let the strip warm and then wax people think it's silly but the sun is the best for lighting and heating it that is that is uh that is a yes you do have to warm it up like those at-home wax strips you like usually rub between your hands really really fast I went through mine yesterday and I found a parking ticket from Syracuse from six and a half years ago. And I found some of my favorite albums just sitting in the center console. I found a, I found a lit bomb that had melted probably three, four years ago and has continued to melt ever since then.

So it's giving me a nice layer of hydration at the bottom of my council. Oh, great. That's kind of cool. A protective barrier. Um, hey, Ash, uh, really appreciate you. Hannah, we really appreciate you. Thanks for letting us talk about you for the last few weeks. We're going to continue to do that next week on the Almost Famous podcast.

Uh, thank you to Courtney Robertson and Ryan Sutter, uh, for coming on. Ashley, congratulations on having a great bridal shower. Congratulations on meeting Jess's family. Ooh, big deal. Hey, I don't want to talk about this all the time. It's not my place. It's not the podcast to do it. I just want to let you know, Ash, and the listeners out there know.

that conversations about God and about sex are super healthy. We should keep talking about it. Like beliefs and ideals and stories and backgrounds and sex and everything that we do in our lives, it's healthy to be vulnerable. I want to encourage you all to be vulnerable because I promise you, once you start talking about this stuff, you realize that even when you feel at your darkest and you're most alone, you're not alone. All of us are struggling.

All of us are dealing with stuff. have done things that now we feel convicted of and that we know weren't healthy for us, but yet we did them and we can't stop doing them sometimes, or maybe we stop doing them and we realize that it's healthy, whatever that is, just know that you're not alone and that I truly personally believe Jesus really does love you, that at the core of it all, mess up or not, that there's a guy that really does care. And so Hannah, thanks for letting us talk about But Luke, I do want to say, for all the things that you've done really wrong and that we've made fun of, you're now gone from this show.

And I'm going to miss it a little bit because I do think that you felt convicted of talking about something that was super meaningful to you. I might not agree most of the time with how you shared it or in what context you shared it in or how you treated others. But dude, you were talking about it. You're being vulnerable to the best of your ability, I would believe. and I would have to say to that congrats I hope that you feel good

about your experience on this show and that I want nothing for anybody but really positive things to happen after it because damn it man this could be really hard on somebody that comes into the show and leaves feeling like

they left something on the table I feel like he did not enjoy the show however I think he's going to learn a lot from it and he hopefully will be a changed man from it hope so too Ash, you're the best. Appreciate you. Appreciate you.

Listeners. Ah, come on. Hey, if you have any comments, questions, concerns, if you really want to disagree with me, I would find that super enjoyable this week. Hashtag, almost famous podcast on Twitter, or email us at Ben and Ashley at ourheartmedia.com. Hey, we appreciate you.

We'll talk to you next week. Thanks, guys. I've been Ashley. Bye. Follow the Ben and Ashley I, Almost Famous Podcasts on IHartRadio or subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts. My boyfriend's professor is way too friendly, and now I'm seriously suspicious.

Wait a minute, Sam. Maybe her boyfriend's just looking for extra credit. Well, Dakota, luckily, it's back to school week on the OK Storytime podcast, so we'll find out soon. This person writes, my boyfriend's been hanging out with his young professor a lot. He doesn't think it's a problem, but I don't trust her. Now he's insisting we get to know each other, but I just want her gone. Hold up. Isn't that against school policy?

That seems inappropriate. Maybe. Find out how it ends by listening to the OK Storytime podcast on the IHeart Radio. Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, my name is Enya Emanzor. And I'm Drew Phillips. And we run a podcast called Emergency Intercom. If you're a crime junkie and you love crimes, we're not the podcast for you.

But if you have unmedicated ADHD... Oh my God, perfect. And want to hear people with mental illness, psychobabble. Yes, yes. Then Emergency Intercoms the podcast for you. Open your free IHeart Radio app. Search Emergency Intercom and listen now. Just like great shoes, great books take you places.

Through unforgettable love stories and into conversations with characters you'll never forget. I think any good romance, it gives me this feeling of like butterflies. I'm Danielle Robay, and this is bookmarked by Reese's Book Club. The new podcast from Hello Sunshine and IHeart Podcasts, where we dive into the stories that shape us on the page and off. Each week I'm joined by author. celebs, book talk stars, and more for conversations that will make you laugh, cry, and add way too many books to your TBR pile. Listen to bookmarked by Reese's Book Club on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Apple Books is the official audiobook and ebook home for Reese's Book Club. Visit apple.co-forward slash Reese Apple Books to find out more. Why are TSA rules so confusing? You got a hood of you. I take it off. I'm Mani. I'm Noah. This is Devin. And we're best friends and journalists with a new podcast called No Such Thing,

where we get to the bottom of questions like that. Why are you screaming? I can't expect what to do. Now, if the rule was the same, go off on me. I deserve it. You know, lock him up. Listen to No Such Thing on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

No Such Thing. I'm Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford, host of the Therapy for Black Girls podcast. I know how overwhelming it can feel if flying makes you anxious. In session 418 of the Therapy for Black Girls podcast, Dr. Angela Neal-Barnett and I discuss flight anxiety. What is not a norm is to allow it to prevent you from doing the things that you want to do, the things that you were meant to do. Listen to Therapy for Black Girls on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. This is an IHeart podcast.

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