The Ben and Ashley I Almost Famous Podcast - How To Heal After Heartbreak with Ashley Hebert & Whitney Angel: Will You Accept This Advice?

Episode Date: May 15, 2026

Trista sits down with two Bachelor Nation favorites, Ashley and Whitney, who’ve gone through heartbreak in the public eye, and come out better on the other side! From how much (or little) to share on social media, to how to pour love back into yourself, these women are giving heartfelt honest opinions.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Listen to deeply well with Debbie Brown from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. This is the Almost Famous Podcast with IHartRadio. Hey, everybody, it's Trista Sutter, and I'm back with you on the Will You Accept This Advice podcast on Almost Famous? I am so excited about my guest today. They're two of my close Bachelor Nation friends and family, Ash, Ashley A. Bear and Whitney Angel. And I'm here to talk to them today about navigating

breakups and divorce and actually all kinds of other things because they're both moms and I just love them both and think that this conversation is going to be one that you're going to want to listen to. So let's bring Ashley and Whitney in. Hi. It's so good to see your beautiful faces. Thanks for coming on. Yes, I'm doing this little series that, you know, who knows, Maybe we'll do some more of them. I would love to. But I figured it would be a great opportunity to talk to some of my favorite ladies in Bachelor Nation and just talk about, you know, things that maybe they have a little bit more expertise than all of us on. And, you know, please, all of us have expertise on breaking up.

All of us. I mean, you know, I don't want to call you guys experts in breaking up because that's definitely not who you are to me. but I feel like you definitely have, you know, a little bit of advice for all of our, all of our listeners on kind of how to navigate it because you both did it so gracefully and I feel like so beautifully in the public eye because that's freaking hard in the public eye. So, okay, Ashley, you and JP divorced six years ago, is that right? Let me get my calculator out. I think it was about six years ago.

Yeah. Carry the one. Yeah. Let me get. Carry the one. Stop it. And Whitney, you and Chris, you broke off the engagement. What year was that?

2000? Oh, my goodness. 15? Yes. Yes. We did not last as long as Ashley and JP did. But, yeah, it was pretty shortly after the show had aired and dancing with the stars. all of that and still very public. Very public. Extremely public. I mean, that was, it was big back then.

And gosh, I feel like for everybody who's been through the show, I'm always like, oh, they're going to make it. They're going to make it. They're going to make it. And you were one of those couples. They're going to make it. I thought that for a little bit. I did. And then I quickly realized, oh, Lord, we are not in this. And I knew it was coming. I knew the impending doom of this is coming and it's going to be so public. Oh my gosh. How am I going to do this? Whitney, I don't think we've ever met. No. Yay. I was going to ask that. I'm Googling because I'm not in the know with everything. So I'm a little like space cadet right now. So we. Ashley is always the person that is texting me going like if we have a reunion or something. She's like, okay, you're going to have to tell me who is who and

who is who. I'm so disconnected from it that I and I'm, I don't know, I just feel like it was like a lifetime ago for me. So I'm not in the know. So wait, I'm, okay, I need the background. I need everything. Yes. Okay, Whitney, take it away. Oh, gosh.

Okay. Well, so let's see. Season 19 was Chris Sol season. Right. And I get, it's so funny. Like, I got the final rose. People were like, you won. I'm like, did I win?

I don't really know if that's like what you want to call it. But I did get the final rose. And it is funny because I feel like at that stage, and I think you guys can all relate to this, we went on this show. There was really no social media or was just starting out. It was just so much more authentic. It wasn't to know the brand. It wasn't to be famous. You know, so I truly did go on that show thinking, like, I'm going to meet my husband and we are going to live happily ever after.

And I even believed that, you know, once the show had wrapped until real life started to ensue. And I'm thinking, this isn't going to work. And I mean, I think he likely thought that too. And we did try to make it work, but nothing was real life. We moved to California and it was dancing with the stars. And here I am thinking, I don't want the fame of this. I want to go back to my normal life. I think that's probably Ashley where you're like, I don't even remember her because as soon as it was done, I just retreated back to normal.

life. It was, it was just too much for me, the anxiety, the public eye of it all. So at the end, did you kind of know, like when you won? Did you know, did you question things? Did you have a lot of doubt in that moment? Not immediately. But, you know, I'm questioning to like with you guys, I couldn't watch it back, but just the, the public scrutiny and people watching it and people being like, he didn't want to choose you. And all of that just got in my head. Yeah. didn't. And who cares? Like, it is what it is. But at that moment, it was impacting me. Not to mention dancing with the stars and he was partnered with another girl named Whitney. So I'm like competing with another Whitney after I'd just been competing with 30 other girls. It just felt like

I was constantly trying to be chosen after I thought I was chosen, if that makes sense. But in my mind, you were chosen, yeah. In my mind, though it was still a battle. It was still a battle. For sure. And honestly, I feel like with all that was going on, with Dancing with the Stars especially, do you feel like you had a voice in being able to say, like, this is not, I don't feel comfortable with this or I would rather go back to Iowa and be on the farm or, you know, do you feel like you had a voice at all? I mean, I had a voice, but it wasn't necessarily being listened to, right? And I think, and again, when I'm saying this, if I was put in that position, to you with a once in a lifetime opportunity to be in Dancing with the Stars, I would have taken it as well. So I'm not, I don't want to say that I'm, you know, ridiculing that. But it definitely was not what I wanted at the end of the day. And in the end, I think it was partially to the detriment of everything.

I think that when you leave the show, it's such a vulnerable time. Like that time, whatever you do with your time once you leave the show with your significant other, that three months is critical. So I feel like if you went on dancing with the stars, that's just another hurdle for you to cross. And it's like, you can't, you can't really make a solid foundation for a relationship because, like I said, those three months are critical. JP and I, I think we went to New York. And I, like, we lived, you know, like back and forth in New York, but we lived a real life. Like, we went out for coffee in the morning. We established a foundation, which is why I think we were able to maybe do things later. But I feel like that time period is so critical once you leave the show. So that's,

I'm sorry. Yeah. And I don't feel like we... I don't know. Whatever. It all worked out, girl, in the end. Here we are a decade later. And it's all good.

It always does. I think you're absolutely right. I think those months are pivotal. And I think that at that point, my self-confidence was so low. Did you guys feel like your self-confidence got impacted by the show? I felt like I went on feeling like I was a confident woman. And I came off feeling so not. I don't know.

Maybe that was just me. You know, looking back, because taking my, it was different for me because on the Bachelor, I was the runner up, right? So of course, my confidence plummeted because I was like, well, he didn't pick me. But then for Bachelorette and obviously ending up with Ryan, I was like, okay, this worked. Like we're made for each other and it worked and I'm really happy. So I think it's just a different situation, obviously, for me compared to you. And Ashley, you can speak to your. experience. Yeah. So I think when I went on, I was in like, I was at whatever, I was in dental school at the time. And I knew I was awesome. So I was like, yes, this is going to be great. But then what happened with me is like even some girls on my season, like I heard through the great mind that they're like, why did they pick her? Like she's this, she's that. Like, I felt like there was negativity around me being selected. So I think that's what affected me. It was like, I know. I know. I, I'm awesome in my heart, you know, but like I felt like people didn't, like, didn't know me well

enough or like I felt like maybe I wasn't pretty enough. Like, I don't know. I just, I started to have insecurities based on what other people were saying when I was selected. So that's where I went down. Okay. Yeah. I feel like, and now it's like the social media. So like Ashley, our day and age, it was the like word of mouth that you hear from like the whatever. But that, but now it's social media. And gosh, I definitely feel like, even though, I mean, we all live in the world of social media. And Whitney, maybe not you as much just because, you know, well, Ashley, you too, like both of you, like not as much. Social media.

Yeah, you're like, whatever. I mean, for your business. Oh, my kid looks cute. Let me post a picture. Bye. Bye. Stay. Stay.

So true. In a couple of years, but it's my birthday. I know. That's so true. But I feel like still, you're in the public eye still a little bit. So, you know, you have a social media presence. And I feel like just trolls are out there. And it's still so hard for me, even though I know that it doesn't matter what they think. One person, I mean, literally one person, I just was going through like Facebook messages or something to find something. I don't even know what it was. And I don't even know what it was. I found this whole, this woman had just constantly been sending me these horrible, horrible messages saying, cut my hair, you look old, blah, blah, whatever, all this stuff. Like, just about my physical appearance mostly. And it like, it did something to me. And I'm like, why am I letting her do that?

I can't. So I feel like it's the same with like the word of mouth stuff, you know. And I think that is something that everyone can learn from. really you need to know your own worth and not let that come from anyone, including the person that you might be engaged to or you might be married to, right? Right. It's a different ballgame now. Different ball game.

I mean, I can't even imagine dating in the social media world. So I'm not into social media anymore just because I, you know, I feel like us as women, like we have so many things going on. I have this much space in my brain. And as I'm getting older, I have this much. It might be getting smaller every year. But I feel like this is how much capacity I have and energy I have to put towards things that are important to me. And what happened with social media with me is like when JP and I got divorced, I got so much hate.

Like, why did you break up your family? How could you break up with him? Like you destroyed your family. You went on vacation after you got divorced. like so much weird like woman hate. And I'm like, first off, you know, well, I wouldn't, I don't respond. But you don't know what happens. Like, how could you come and say this when you have no idea what happened? Anyway, so I felt myself taking some of my great positive energy in this bubble and using it, wasting my time on that when there are so many great things in my life,

my kids, my job, my beautiful life. So I said to myself, you know what, not worth it. I'm getting older. My box gets smaller every year. I'm going to focus on things. I'm going to focus my energy on the people that love me, on the people that know me, on the things I love to do on my kids,

on things that are going to push me forward. So then I said, by social media. So I just kind of stopped like all together. Yeah. No is throwing it back. 20s, the decade. To the days of huge hits and unforgettable items, a nonstop stream of the biggest.

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that means the world to me. And that's what motivates me to win more gold medals. At our level, at this scale, like being able to fail in front of the, the entire world. Like, I can do anything. I can do anything. Because resilience isn't just about winning. It's about showing up, even when it's hard. Listen to Hurtle with Emily Abadi on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports. Did you take it off your phone or do you just not

look at your phone? Like, how do you do that? It's not that I, it's on my phone. I look at it. it. I don't post. I don't let people in as much. Like, I don't post my political thoughts because it's like, totally. No, you can't. I don't understand how people can do that. And like, the hate that they get for whatever they believe in, like, how could you use your good daily energy on people you don't know? Like, fighting with people you don't. Yeah, because you're never going to win. Right. You're never going to win. I don't have the mental capacity. I don't know about you guys. But like I just have so many other things going on that I rather choose my energy. So anyway, that's that.

I mean, I still look. I think that's. Yeah. She could her up to Tristan. Like, oh, her kids are getting older. That's so awesome. Right. Super positivity.

I don't know if that helps. And I do love so for that. And I feel like it can connect people in a lot of positive ways. But I'm like similarly, Ashley, like I did the same thing. I was getting so much hate. And it became so much that it really was just impacting my mental health that I just couldn't do it anymore. And people are so, especially now, they're so confused after like trying, you know, I'm starting my own business and all of that. And people are like, you have such a platform.

Like, why aren't you using it to try to help get your business out of the ground and reach people? I'm like, I just can't. I just have this. I mean, I still utilize it in a sense. But I'm very, very protective on what I put on my own personal page. And yeah, because I just, I don't, I'm a little, you know, nervous about, well, what are people? going to say about this. Still, all of these years later, I still feel that way. And, you know, I worry, too, about, like, our kids with social media, because I know as an adult how much it impacts me. And I think, you know, I look at them and I think it can just, and it impacts everything. Mental health, self-worth, what we're talking about. And to me, I just then I'm like, forget it.

I'm not even dealing with it. And I just turn blind eye. Yeah. Yeah. I think you need to. And I think if I can impart any wisdom on you guys about since you have younger kids, it's just keep it out of their hands for as long as possible. Right. You know, yeah. Just I, we pushed it and pushed it and pushed it and pushed it. And it just, it is overwhelming. Even for adults, I feel like it's really hard to not get sucked in.

Because, I mean, I'll go on to find, find something. Like, oh, what was that quote? or what was that outfit or what was whatever. I'm looking for something, right? And then five minutes later, 10, 20, 30 minutes later, I'm like, what the hell was I just went down the rampantle? Yes. It just sucks you in and takes away this valuable time that you're talking about, Ashley.

So I feel like it's so crucial to protect that time and that peace and that positivity. I will say it is getting harder and harder for me to, you know, I've always been a pretty positive person. I feel like pretty optimistic and just try to look on the bright side and be grateful. But holy cow menopause has come in and crushed my life. Oh my gosh. I hate it. I hate it so much. And no one, not more and more people are talking about it. But it is not something that a lot of people talk about. It's like, oh my gosh, it is so frustrating because when you're sad, you're like 10,000 times more sad than you normally be. It's like extremes of emotion and the self-worth and the unworthiness and all of it is like right at the surface and then

menopause is like, oh, we're just going to take that surface away and just expose everything and make it so much worse. So I will say it's just hard. for me. And I know a lot of people out there who deal with mental health issues. And I'm putting men to pause in a mental health issue because it's like a crisis of mental health. I feel like, yeah, right? It is so bad. And anyone who deals with mental health issues, it's just hard to like feel that positivity. So is there anything you actively do to stay positive, especially if you're going through a breakup or a really hard time in your life, like actively, what do you guys do to keep that positive?

positivity like forefront in your lives. Whitney, you want to go first? It doesn't matter. I mean, I'm sitting here thinking I stumped you. I did. I do if you're interested. Yes, please. Okay.

What I do and I, because my sister and I, we talk a lot about this. And I think that what you have to do is just kind of create a list of the things that make you happy and make time for it. And that's it. Like, it's simple. Like I love to dance. So I make time every week, one night a week, I'll go to dance. I love playing board games with my kids.

I think it's just like being very intentional with your time. And oh, another thing I just thought of that helps me a lot. It's just really making time for the things you like. I know it sounds so simple and so like dumb. But when you get really busy with your kids and your life, like I feel like sometimes that time just disappears. So I think it's making time for that. Another thing is like some, I feel like I've reached a point in my life where I'm very, very

busy, but I've also have all the things I ever dreamed of. So sometimes it helps me to sit down and think back in my life and say, wow, this is where I was. This is where I am. Like, even though I have all this responsibility, I'm so grateful that I have it. And like coming from a place of gratitude really helps me, even if it's just like sitting there and kind of thinking and just shifting the perspective. But again, I haven't hit menopause yet.

So I haven't, I don't feel like, I don't feel probably, I don't know how to manage that yet. But I know sometimes when my life gets really overwhelming for me and I feel like, well, maybe I'm not exactly where I want it to be. I kind of just sit and think and shift my perspective a little bit and then just set aside time for things that really make you happy. That's, I love it. And that's how beautifully spoken, because you know what I was going to say when you asked me that question, Trista? I was going to be like, send out a stat called from a therapist.

Like, we talk. True. Yeah. Oh, I have. Whitney, I just started. I like literally just had my first. And I've talked to therapist before. But really, I was like, I need to get a therapist on like speed dial.

Because in those, in those moments when I am so pulled into the darkness, I'm. I'm like, I have to talk to somebody other than, yes, I have friends that I can talk to about it. But I really need someone professional to be able to say, you're normal. It's okay. It's going to be okay. Let's talk it through and give you some coping mechanisms. Like, that's what I need. What kind of things are you feeling?

Are you feeling issues with like self-worth, aging? Like, what is your, like, what's, am I allowed to talk about that? All of it. Yeah, we're definitely talking about dating. So I definitely want to get, or not dating, but breakups and dating and all that. But yeah, I mean, it's just, it's all encompassing. Every single thing. Like, I am just so irritable.

Ryan will say one thing. And I'm just like in a bad mood. And I think more often than not, he just assumes I'm going to be in a bad mood. And I hate that. I hate that. I am the person who's usually. positive and productive and, you know, going, going, going and getting everything done for the family. And all of a sudden, I'm like, you know, like, just mad and sad and crying. And I hate it. I hate it.

And I am on hormone replacement. So I'm on estrogen and progesterone. And, you know, I'm starting that. Like, it's starting to make a difference. I'm feeling more productive. But it's just, It's just something, you guys. And Whitney, I don't know. Do you deal with it with fertility? Because people who are dealing with fertility, I feel like have hormonal issues. You're dealing with this with your clients, right? Yeah.

So we talk about it all the time with clients, and especially when they're going through treatment, like, why do I feel just so irritable or like my fuse is so short? And now, you know, too, as, you know, kind of part of the work that we do, we talk to people that are going through perimenopause and those changes. And quite honestly, I'm kind of in the beginning stages of the paraminopause. And so I feel you to like a small degree. But I brought it up to my gynecologist the other day. And I'll text you because she gave me this vitamin.

And it is strictly for, it says on there to help with unstable mood and irritability. And I popped to this morning and I feel okay. So I will send that to you. Please, thank you. And let you know. But it is a very real thing. When your hormones are kind of, you know, again, whether it's fertility treatment or menopause, when they are sporadic and kind of going all over the place, I mean, this is real what you're feeling.

Yeah, oh, for real. So I had Michelle Young and Claire Crawley on to talk about their health struggles. They're going through some pretty tough things. And, you know, I told them that I was feeling this way. And I've tried to go on social media and kind of talk about what I'm going through. And they're like, do it. Like, actually talk about it, you know, in the public. So I'm sure there are people who can relate. And I'm like, I just, gosh, I feel like I, it's just compared to other people who are going through cancer or who have lost a low one or who are going through a divorce. It's, it seems so minimal, but it does take over like everything. It does. And you know what, Tristan, I feel like you could be sort of at, you know, the forefront of this.

Because you think about the people that follow you have followed you for so long, have been fans for so long. And everyone's getting older. So everyone is feeling a guarantee like you. And for you to kind of go out and say, guess what? I'm talking about this. This is how I'm feeling. So many people are going to be able to relate to that. And I think are going to want to talk about it because people don't.

People don't talk about it. Yeah. Okay. So back to the subject at hand. I'm sorry. Yeah, I love to go down a wayward path. Anyway, okay, so we're going to totally change gears and talk about wedding rings. So have you guys heard that there's a trend of people making their divorce rings out of their wedding rings?

No. I think it's like essentially you just change probably your setting or you use the ring in a different way. Rachel Zoh just did it. And Heather, did she change the setting? Is that essentially what the divorce ring is about? Yeah, I'll pull it up, but I think she made it like bigger and better too. Of course. Amazing. I 100% know why they're doing this. The value of diamonds went down. They're not selling them

anymore. They're like, it's not even worth it. Let's just make a new piece. I love it. Ashley, you're so practical. I love it. But Ashley, do you have yours? Yeah, I still have mine. Okay. So what are we going to do with it? Let's design it. Yes. We need to go do some searches. Okay. I just want to wear it. I mean, right? You should. I mean, wear it in a different way. So I guess Rachel Zoh, like, made it bigger and better. Okay, so on this people article, Rachel Zoh says, calls her divorce ring a freedom ring. Buy the diamond now. Why do women have to wait their whole lives to get a ring because they're engaged?

So true. I love that she did that. So anyway, she just, oh my gosh, you guys, can they see this link, Heather? I want to see. Did she use the same diamond or she? No, but I'll send it. I'll send it. Holy gorgeous.

However, I could see someone that, I hear what she's saying, buy it now, but it is a lot nicer when someone else is buying it for you. True. And that's kind of the dream, right, that you have a man who loves you that much and is going to spend that much money on you. And it's something to keep, like a keepsake to, you know, I don't wear my engagement or my 10th anniversary wing, but I do wear my wedding, my wedding begins. it's just, you know, it's very special to me. So obviously take away, you know, those sentiments because the wedding is far gone and the marriage might be over. But hey, why not just use the diamonds instead of putting them in a safe?

I agree. Yeah, right? Also, like, as you said, it's like a beautiful thing. Like, you want to still wear it. You don't want to just be like, okay, well, now the relationship's over, so I can't or this beautiful piece of jewelry anymore. Right. I kind of like this idea.

Yeah. I think it's cool. I think it's interesting that they had to incentivize women with a big ring. True. True. Like, think of people on this one. Like, how do we get women to marry these men and do everything for them? Let's get them a big diamond.

Right. Get them a big diamond. Yeah. Oh, my God. I like that. Yes. We can make it a necklace. I love that. The necklace, yes.

Or, Ashley, are you keeping the ring to, like, give to the kids one day if they want it? I haven't even thought too much about it. Yeah, I probably might give it to Essie or maybe when she's older, like turn it into something, like either a necklace or like a floating diamond or something. I don't know. I haven't decided. Kind of just sitting on it. Yeah. I mean, you've got time. I think Essie's got some time. The problem is it was small. I can't put it on because I, I don't know. I got chubby fingers now. I highly doubt you have chubby fingers. No way.

I'm sorry. You're like, it's a pinky ring. There you go. Just make it a pinky ring. Or put it on your toe. No. We're now starting a major trend. Yeah, exactly.

Engagement rings as co-rings. Okay. So when you were both newly single, how'd your divorce or breakup define what you wanted in your next relationship? There's a little giggle coming out of Whitney. I'm letting Whitney go first. So much. So you guys, going back to that breakup, so that was, I don't know, it was like in May or June. And I met my husband in September.

So, oh, yes. And you guys met how? Bumble. That's what I was wondering. maybe you had, yeah. And I liked Bumble because, you know, it gives the control to the woman because the woman has to make the first reach out. Like you have to instigate the conversation, right?

Oh, I didn't know that. Yeah. So that was nice. And he was the first date that I went on after the breakup. And I was nervous for multitude of different reasons. And one thing that I noticed that was different. And I wonder if you guys have any, like, have thought. about this before because I was thinking about our conversation today. And I at first was nervous

when I met Ricky because it was not, it was more of like, it was a calm dating experience. There was no cat and mouse. There was no roller coaster. There was no, you know, my nervous system getting all dysregulated and chaos constantly ensuing. And because of that sort of quietness or calmness, I worried, like, maybe there's no sparks at first. Oh, right. In reality, it wasn't the spark that I was thinking. It was just the safety. That calmness was a sense of safety.

And I realized that because I felt safe in the relationship and emotionally safe, the spark that I was thinking was that sort of spark was actually just, there was no chaotic, you know, stuff that happens with dating. There was no me trying to prove myself. There was no me trying to wonder, you know, what was going to happen next in my, you know, emotional system being all dysregulated. And to me, I think I misunderstood that in the moment because that's all I ever knew. And especially coming off of a show with dating all of these people and constantly worried,

is he going to pick me? Am I the one or all of this? It just felt safe. And I've now learned in hindsight that that safety was exactly what I was missing and what I needed all along. And so I think sometimes we do get so. caught up in the hustle and bustle of the relationships and the cat and mouse and all of that. But I would question or I would, you know, say to those out there, you know, give it, you know,

the quietness, the calmness, the steadiness is safety. And I think that's also like a good sign. That's great advice. Great advice. That's great advice for younger people that are in relationships for sure. Yeah, who don't understand their emotions necessarily. Right. Sometimes they're both towards the, like, ins and outs relationships.

Sometimes they're pulled towards the, you know, the spark. Yes. The drama of it all. Drama, the spark, the excitement, the push and pull. Yeah. Interesting. Yeah. But that's what I think I learned almost immediately.

And you still feel that way after years and years of marriage. Obviously, we have a romantic spark, right? But I don't want to. Yes, of course. It's just the different. I think I was defining it differently when I was younger. And it set the foundation for the relationship. Because when you feel emotionally safe,

think everything else kind of builds on top of that. And, you know, I think that self-trust, self-love, all of that kind of plays in on the other end as well for that person making you feel that way as well. Yeah, that's great. You is throwing it back. To the days of huge hits and unforgettable albums. A nonstop stream of the biggest and best. Drake, Rihanna, Beyonce, Katie Gaga, the weekend. And more. All your decade defining favorites. All in one place. Hi, it's Katie Perry.

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you only got in because your parents made a huge donation. The group. The yard birds, right? That's the name. The Harvard Yard. But they're open to change. Do you have a name suggestion? We're open.

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Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise. Breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real.

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professional athletes, coaches, and Olympic champions to talk about the challenges that shaped them and the mindset that keeps them going. From the WNBA standout, Kate Martin, and rising hockey star, Layla Edwards. If a boy can do it, I don't see why a girl can't. Like, I've never understood that. Like, it didn't make sense in my brain. It's hard to be in spaces that no one looks like you, but don't ever feel like you don't feel on.

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I can do anything. because resilience isn't just about winning. It's about showing up, even when it's hard. Listen to Hurtle with Emily Abadi on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHart Women's Sports. Ashley, what did you take from the divorce? Gosh, I feel like it was so long ago, like a lifetime ago.

Okay, so for me, without getting to, like, I, you know, I don't want to talk negatively about anybody. Of course. Without getting too much into, you know, the end of my marriage. I think that when I exited my marriage, I, towards the end of the marriage, I felt like there was a lot of, gosh, how do I say this? There was a lot of, you know, like kind of control. Like, like, you had to, I had to act a certain way.

otherwise there were like repercussions kind of kind of feeling like there was a lot of control towards the end of the relationship. So when I left the relationship, I wasn't looking for another relationship. I wasn't like, oh, in my next relationship, I hope to have this or I want this. I was like, I want to get out of a relationship because it's almost like a child that's been with a controlling parents up until they graduate and then they're like, I'm out. Yeah, right? Graduate, they leave for college. That was the feeling I had. I was not focused on another relationship.

I wasn't even thinking about what I wanted in another relationship. I think in a way it made me question relationships and marriage. And like I still have a lot of things that I'm dealing with. Like I'm not remarried. And I don't know that I ever would. Like I have a lot of my own personal feelings about marriage and women in marriage and that kind of relationships. And so I think that it left me with a feeling of like I want to be independent. I don't want anyone to have any type of control over me.

I'm still very much that way years and years later. Like the person that I, you know, I dated someone for a while, like let me be who I wanted to be, like the good and the bad and like allowed me to be my true self without any form of punishment or any form of like making you feel bad about who you are or like how you are. So I think that if I ever got into like a serious, serious relationship again, it would have to be with someone that had like more of like a progressive kind of mindset. I think that's just the best way to put it. Like I'm so focused on independence and like self love and really just like caring about myself. I know that sounds selfish, but honestly it makes me a better person for my kids, for my business.

it makes me a happier person to be able to focus on that. So that's kind of where I'm at right now. And I don't think that's selfish. I hate that we have to say that, like when we're focused on our happiness and our stuff, that we're being selfish, you know, especially as moms because I feel like that mom guilt and the, you know, we are, our society for whatever reason, there's this guilt around mother and women who focus on themselves and prioritize their happiness over everything else. So you're not being selfish.

No, I don't feel like I am. I just feel like maybe other people would kind of interpret it as that. Got it. Got it. Yes. But I know how much caring for myself has improved my family life, like with my kids and my job and just, I think people underestimate how important it is for a woman to wake up and feel happy.

Like, right. Yeah. I think it is you are the woman is the center of the family. I think. And I feel like when you have a woman who cares for themselves and like a husband or a significant other that cares for the woman, like I just feel like that's when your family flourishes. So I feel like I don't have anybody to do that for me. So I do it for myself.

And I feel like my life with my kids is like my kids are really happy kids. Like we have an amazing life. We have fun. We have like we focus on happiness. And I think also that's another thing that families can do for their kids, right? Like of course we focus on discipline and homework and being hardworking and caring and kind. But like also like fun and happiness and freedom and free time. And like I feel like nowadays we underestimate the importance of just like rest.

And I don't know. And also for our children to see us having fun. Yes. I feel sometimes it's always like, oh, mom's, you know, she's just so busy with work or she's, you know, so busy with, you know, getting stuff done around the house or so busy with trying to do this that sometimes it's nice to just be like, my mom's really fun. She has fun with me. Right. Exactly. Yeah.

I feel like as my kids have gotten older, I have kind of let them like live. their lives in a way, you know, they have their stuff. They have dance and they have hockey and they have, you know, time with their friends and whatever. And recently, like for Mother's Day, part of what I did for Mother's Day was Max and I went and played pickleball, just the two of us. And it was, it is so much fun. And I, I just feel like I need more of that. And I wish that I hadn't, I kind of hadn't put my foot on the break and and let them kind of like I'm their whole I'm their safe space. I'm their home life. I'm, I'm their place to, you know, come for whatever they need. And I would let them live their lives. But I think if I, if I could go back, then I would encourage

more of those, especially one on one times. So with the kids so that I can find that, you know, happiness and just help that joy flourish, you know, I think that is, you're right. So important. But I think that's another part of like the whole social media aspect is like people are posting what they're doing with their kids. So they're at baseball, they're not posting those moments of calm. So I think that sometimes we feel like we have to do so much. And like that's another pressure that I feel like women and families face is like,

And I was guilty of it. I mean, we were, I mean, we still are kind of guilty of it. Like, our kids are in multiple sports. But, like, if you can find the opportunity for peace, calm, freedom, like, sitting on the couch, like, having no plan. I just feel like it's such an underrated part of childhood. Right. Yeah.

I really want to kind of harness with my kids as they're getting older. And relationships. I feel like when people ask me what I do, like, what we do for date nights, I'm like, sit on the couch and watch a movie because I don't want to go anywhere. I don't need to like do dinner or whatever. It's like we just want to just have time together. So I think you're right. Like just encouraging that like quality time instead of like having to do something exciting.

I think that's right. Did either of you feel in your breakups that were you ever worried that there would be a next relationship? Like Ashley, I know you're single and just, you know, kind of had a breakup. What was it like a couple years ago? after you guys were together for a while. This is after JP. I feel like we keep going back and forth, like trying to decide. Like he, you know, we have a, we were together for a long time, like five years.

Wait, was it five? Yeah, five years. I mean, it was five years. But like we've been kind of like back and forth. So we're still trying to figure it out. Okay. I didn't know this part. I thought I.

But the door's not shut. No, the door's not shut. I hope he doesn't watch this. People magazine don't pop it up because, and we're not going to, we're not going to Sorry, sorry, I don't want to blow up your life. But I feel like do you, because of, you know, the breakup with JP and then the other breakup, do you feel like you have a next relationship on the horizon? Like, did it take your, your, what's the word, your hopes of having another relationship away?

Or you're just so positive that you're like, whatever. It's all going to happen, however, it's going to happen. And it's all good. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I honestly don't center my thoughts around relationships at all. Like, I'm not like, right. Good. Everybody that talks to me, they're like, oh, Ashley, I want to hook you up with this person.

Or like, oh, this person tried to hook us up. I'm like, well, like, I'm not. And my mom sometimes is like, you'll meet someone, Ashley, you'll meet an attorney. I'm like, I don't want an attorney. I don't know why you think like that. Because I don't even like my life is so not centered around relationships. Totally. Someone great, but I'm not actively like, oh, help me.

I have to have it. I think that that's just so, I mean, important because I think that there is, I hate to say it. But if you look at these women are, you know, not settling, they're waiting longer in life to decide, do I want to get married? Do I want to have kids? And if they choose, they don't want either of those things, there's the stigma. And I hate it. Rude. Same. Yeah, it's rude. You guys saw the research about single women, right? Like, they live longer. They're after, like, hello. Yeah. The literature is out there, friends. I don't know. Yeah. I mean, and do what's right for you. My mom has been, my parents got divorced when I was in fifth grade.

and she never had like a really significant relationship and she's happy. Like why do you have to, you definitely don't have to be in a significant relationship to find happiness. I think that's a great message. But I do see how some people really like they thrive when they're with someone else and they really like that's important to them. Like it's just not important to me. And I don't know if that's something wrong with me.

Like I don't know. No. I don't know what it is. But it's not a popular opinion. Like, it's not a popular practice, I don't think. I think that humans are, like, made to be, like, with the other. I don't know. I'm just kind of, but you know what I think that says about you is I think, kind of going

back to the very beginning. Like, you are a confident, happy, fulfilled person. So you're like, hey, if I have somebody else in my life, that's great. But I'm not going to live my mind searching for that or feel that there's a void in my life. And I think that that speaks so highly of you. and you knowing yourself and loving yourself. Thanks. For real. It's true. I think it's great advice and people can learn from you in terms of that self-confidence and that you don't, like, don't rush things. You hear that adage of, and not necessarily an adage because it's kind of how it happened

with me, how you're trying to get pregnant, pregnant, pregnant, like you're trying, trying, and when you don't try, that's when you get pregnant. So I feel like it's kind of the same. with relationships, you know, like in those moments when you're when you're not like, oh, I have to have a relationship. I have to have a man. I have to find a man, whatever. When you're not looking for that, sometimes that's when it happens naturally. I just feel like I want younger girls like in their early 20s or whatever, like to really like instead, because I remember those, I don't know if you guys remember those days where you're like, your life revolves around like meeting people in a relationship. I don't know if it's just the hormones of like being a human where it's like that's where

you're supposed to procreate. Like I'm not sure if that's what it is. But I feel like I want women like young women 20s like solidify yourself first. Like be sure that you get on two feet before you find somebody because I just feel like it puts you in such a vulnerable position. Like that's my number one thing for young women is because I see so much around me like women that can't get out of relationships for like many different reasons. I just feel like if you're 20 and you're a young woman, like focus on strengthening your abilities, gaining knowledge, like solidifying things for you before you, you know, put everything in someone. Find out who you are.

Find out truly who you are. I mean, I know that sounds cliche, but I mean, I'm still figuring out. Yeah, same. And you don't want to, I think when you're so impressionable at a younger age, it's easy to lose yourself. feel that your identity is tied up in a relationship, whether you have one, whether you don't. And I think even if you do have one, it doesn't always mean that you're being, it's a healthy one. I think kind of what you're saying is actually and like getting out of that and knowing how to get out of it. But I think it is important.

And it all starts with how we speak to ourselves and the confidence that we instill in ourselves and boundaries we set for ourselves. Well, also still allowing ourselves to be vulnerable. There's nothing wrong with that either. Right. Exactly. Right. I mean, I feel like life is about connections, but the connections don't have to be like a significant other relationship. It's about, you know, friendships. Focus on your friendships. Focus on your kids. Focus on your parents, you know, whatever relationships bring you joy and find those relationships. You know, we went through a move like two or three years ago and we decided to move. But it's hard because when you're older and your kids are driving themselves, you don't, I get involved with school, but it's so different in meeting people when you're older, especially in a new town or whatever.

So I feel like it's just I had to be really intentional about getting involved and putting myself out there and going to like play picklewall at open play with people I didn't know or whatever. Do whatever, you know, whatever your hobbies are, you know. I would hate to do that. I know you would. But you know what? Think about it if I went to like a dance, you know, fitness class like you do, Ashley. And like you do that on your own. So don't say, oh, that would be so uncomfortable. It's all about the activity. But I don't talk to anybody when I'm doing. Okay. I'm just joking. I do. I do. I'm joking. I'm not that antisocial. No. I mean, I struggle with that. Like in a new, like just for example, with a workout class, I've been wanting to try like as I'm getting older and my joints are starting to hurt. I'm like, maybe I shouldn't do it. with stuff like as high impact. So I want to try this new Pilates class. So I want to go,

but I don't want to go by myself. So I start like making excuses because I'm like, I don't want to walk into this class when, you know, these Pilates reformer machines. There's only like eight to 10, 12, you know, people in there. Those Pilates chicks are hardcore too. And there's all this lingo that I don't know. And they're all like following along. And it's all their legs are clicking up to here. Yes, exactly. I did that recent, like a couple of years ago and knew no one. And you're right. They had, it was like one of the ones, I can't remember what it's called, but they have a whole pattern that they do the entire class. And I was behind the entire class. So it is intimidating, but I feel like still get out there and do it because you

never know. You might strike up a conversation with somebody who you can, you know, consistently, you know, get on the phone with or whatever. I feel like it's just about putting yourself out there. And that goes with dating too. You know, I haven't been in the dating pool for 24 years or whatever, but I feel like it's with everything. Just be intentional about putting yourself out there so that you can form relationships and get to know other people outside of your bubble. Because if you're a homebody like me, it's really hard to do that when you're just like, nope. I just want to stay home and get my stuff done here. Yep.

Yep. And throw in all the hormones too. Here we go again. Throw all that in there and it's like it's hard. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel.

Help an Acapella band with their Between Songs Band. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Life is full of hurdles. So how do you keep going?

On Hurtle with Emily Abadi, we're talking with the most inspiring women in sports and wellness from professional athletes, coaches, and Olympic champions about the challenges that shape them and the mindset that keeps them moving forward. At our level, at this scale, being able to fail in front of. the entire world. Like, I can do anything. I can do anything. Listen to Hurtle with Emily Abadi

on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports. I'm Joey Dardano. And on my new podcast, Hope From a Hypocrite, I'll be changing lives, helping people in need with thoughtful solutions.

Sike, I'm a comedian. I'm not qualified to give good advice. Join me and my comedian friends as we riff rant and recommend some of the most legally duval dubious advice known to me. This is Help from a Hypocrite, the worst advice from the dumbest people you know. Listen to Help from a Hypocrite Wednesdays on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Why are we all so obsessed with romance? On the Radio 831 podcast, join us, Sanjana Basker and Tyler McCall, as we unpack all the trending tropes, fuzzy adaptations, book talk drama, and celebrity love stories with hot takes and sharp guests. Each episode digs into what these stories reveal about desire, fantasy, identity, and how we love now. Listen to the Radio 831 podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.