The Ben and Ashley I Almost Famous Podcast - If You Don't Want Your Guy To Cheat, Make Sure He Has This Job

Episode Date: February 6, 2025

Jana Kramer and Cheryl Burke are talking with viral divorce attorney Kate Simonds about the top 3 professions least likely to cheat! Are silver divorces the new trend? Kate Simonds reveals the number one reason men in long-term marriages leave. Then, Jana admits to telling someone in the bathroom on her wedding day that she had just made a mistake. Email us at: [e-mail] or call us at 844-4-I Do Pod (844-443-6763)Follow I Do, Part 2 on Instagram and TikTokSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. My boyfriend's professor is way too friendly, and now I'm seriously suspicious. Wait a minute, Sam. Maybe her boyfriend's just looking for extra credit. Well, Dakota, luckily, it's back to school week on the OK Storytime podcast, so we'll find out soon. This person writes, my boyfriend's been hanging out with his young professor a lot. He doesn't think it's a problem, but I don't trust her. Now he's insisting we get to know each other, but I just want her gone.

Hold up. Isn't that against school policy? That seems inappropriate. Maybe find out how it ends by listening to the OK Storytime podcast and the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Let's start with a quick puzzle. The answer is Ken Jennings' appearance on The Puzzler with A.J. Jacobs. The question is, what is the most entertaining listening experience in podcast land? Jeopardy Truthers believe in... I guess they would be Kenspiracy theorists. That's right.

To give you the answers and you still blitzers. The Puzzler. Listen on the iHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, my name is Enya Humanzor. And I'm Drew Phillips. And we run a podcast called Emergency Intercom. If you're a crime junkie and you love crimes, we're not the podcast for you. But if you have unmedicated ADHD... Oh my God, perfect. And want to hear people with mental illness. Psychobabble Yes, yes Then Emergency Intercom is the podcast for you

Open your free IHeartRadio app Search Emergency Intercom And listen now I just normally do straight stand-up But this is a bit different What do you get when a true crime producer walks into a comedy club Answer

A new podcast called Wisecrack Where a comedian finds himself At the center of a chilling true crime story Does anyone know what show they've come to see It's a story It's about the scariest night of my life This is Wisecrack, available now. Listen to Wisecrack on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Welcome to ID Part 2, the podcast for people that maybe didn't find their happily ever after the first time around. I'm one of your host, Jana Kramer, and today I'm joined by one of our own. of our favorite celebrity mentors here on the podcast, former pro dancer for 26 seasons on Dancing with the Stars. It's my girl, Cheryl Burke. Hey, girl. Today we're going to dive into the topic of divorce, something we know nothing about. Some celebs in the headlines, new trends in divorce. We're going to bring in Kate Simmons, a divorce attorney with Simmons Law Group. She's got a video right now that is popping up all over the internet. So let's get her in here and do a deep dive on this. Kate, thank you so much for coming on the show. I kind of want to start

this off and we'll just deep dive right into it. So when I saw your video, so you've got, you've got this video going viral right now on TikTok and some other, you know, streamers. And you basically said, like, here are the three people that are most likely not going to cheat, right? You said farmers, accountants, and pharmacists. Is that accurate? That's right. That's what's on the video. So when I watch it, and maybe this is just like my jaded heart, from my past relationship, but I'm like, A, how did you come up with that? But also, in my mind, I'm like, a dude's going to cheat no matter what they do, right? So it's like, and a lot of times, you know, my last husband was a professional athlete. All right, he's in the terrible category of

most likely going to cheat. Not saying they all do, because now my husband was a professional athlete as well, has never cheated. Wouldn't dare to freaking cheat. Is the most respectful man, never cheated on his ex, wouldn't cheat on me, whether, I mean, anything. It's like, so it's like to label someone a cheater or not a cheater to me is kind of like, how can you even do that in a way? You're so right. And you can't really do that. I mean, I've done videos that have gone viral and let's just get it out of the way.

The most likely to cheat men, of course, men are going to cheat. You're spot on. I see it every day. Cops, firefighters. I mean, divorce lawyers will joke behind the scenes. Like, if you married a cop, that was your first mistake. So we talk about people in law enforcement, EMTs, firefighters, most likely 100% of the time. 100% of the time.

Not 100% of the time. But if someone calls and they say it's, you know, the talk of the fire station, the talk of the cop shop, I mean, that we expect. So when those videos got so popular, we got all this feedback about who's not cheating, women and men who are more or less likely to be in the council chair talking about cheating. And so we just came up with like 10 occupations that we don't see that much, accountants, librarians. We said teachers long ago and the internet started on fire, like here are all these teachers that are cheating. But it is really difficult outside of the occupations I mentioned. You know, something really interesting about cheating that I think is coming to the forefront more. And when I talk to women, middle-aged women, let's set aside the young guys that are acting inappropriately.

But when we see families broken apart by true affairs and women come in in their late 30s and 40s. I want to hear from both of you. If you agree, if you think this is mainstream information, but I describe to these women, when men are finding these other lives and they're going to another person, it's really easy for the wife to say, what did I do wrong? What did I do in this relationship to cause this? And I think it's becoming more understandable and people, are accepting the feedback from me more readily, that those people, those men, let's just stick with the gender bias, those husbands are unhappy with themselves, that it's not something that these women are doing or it always takes to when a relationship breaks down. But I think

it's becoming much more of a positive spin in a way for them to move forward in their life for their new beginning to recognize that those men are unhappy with themselves and they're looking for something and they're looking for something that that does not stem from the fault of the other spouse. Cheryl, when you got divorce, was your first thought? Did you go into why? Like, was it because I was in this or that? I think, yeah, and I think it actually stems from the way I was raised, right? Like, I don't think it just, I think that's a natural, we're all human. And I think the first thing we do is, in a way, shame ourselves, blame ourselves, and definitely try to put the pieces together and get answers. But sometimes there's just no answers, right? And for the most part,

I think naturally my brain went to, yeah, what did I do wrong? Did I not sleep with him enough? Did I, you know, there's all these questions that I ask myself, was I not there emotionally? Was I not? It's just, but ultimately, intellectually, I know, of course, it has nothing to do with me. It has everything to do with that person. But naturally, right? And if I wasn't in therapy for as long as I've been in therapy, it would have really taken a toll on my own self-esteem, my confidence, just me as a woman in general, you know? Yeah. And I think Kate, to your thing too, I mean, and to kind of what you're saying, Cheryl, I remember it's my first thought was when I found out that what he was cheating was, you know, why am I not enough for you to, like, is, is, is, is, is. Is, is.

what's wrong with me that he went to go be with someone else. Like was, you know, but my thing was I went back to old conversations that we had. Like, I'll never forget. We were sitting at this restaurant. And I was asking him, like, you know, why he wouldn't be physical with me or sleep with me. And he's like, well, look what you wear to bed. And I'm like, I wear a big, like a big t-shirt, you know? And he's like, you think that's sexy? Really? You think that's sexy? And I'm like, I've just never been a lingerie girl, right? So I never did pull on laundry. I always thought the big boyfriend t-shirt was sexy and like but like I he immediately blamed his and I didn't know he was cheating at that point on the fact that I didn't dress sexy so once I found out I was like

oh it's because I wasn't sexy enough for him so he chose something else that was sexier and so immediately I went to I wasn't good enough I'm not pretty enough for him to or sexy enough and I you know I didn't give him what he needed so that's why and I need to now do this to please him so that he stays and like doesn't do it again. But he was just gaslighting you. Well, and I know that now, but it took, I mean, years of therapy to go, oh, wait a minute, this has nothing to do with me. I was always good enough.

I was always pretty enough. And I was, it was always his low self-esteem. But when I go back to all the comments, he was trying to bring my self-esteem down to make himself feel better. But you don't know that when that happens, right? Like when you're going through that divorce, you're like, why wasn't I good enough? Why couldn't he stay for me and like, treat me this way? Now this other girl, it's like, no.

So I think, you know, when I, you know, Kate, I guess, you know, another question is that is when I was talking to my now husband, I was telling him, we were kind of talking about infidelity and he's like, I said, you know, the main reason that I left him wasn't because he cheated. It was because of the lies and it was because of the deceit. And he's like, what? Not because he slept with other women. And I'm like, no, it was because he lied about it and he wasn't honest. And he was, it was the, it wasn't the act. It was the lie. It was the lie. and it was the deceit. That's why. And not taking accountability and sticking to it. Like, it's a whole thing. Yeah. Like, it's never the act of. It's always.

Never. It's never. Yeah. It's like, and the act hurts. Yeah, I can forgive and I tried, but it's always the deceit and the lie. And so, Kate, do you see that a lot with is, you know, when people file for divorce, you know, is it infidelity or do you see it as the, the, you know, the lie? You're right on.

It's the lie. It's not the infidelity. It's not. I'm here. day after I found out about this affair. And you've also identified a huge difference in the maturity level of 20-year-old women that I see, 30-year-old women that I see in 40. I mean, and this is partly personal experience, but as I talk to female clients, and frankly, I do have about a 50-50 split gender-wise, but with my female clients, it's a different mindset when they're coming in. You're so much

more confident. Think of what a different person you are, a 20-year-old, Janet, to 30-year-old, Janet, third-year-old Cheryl to 40-year-old Cheryl. I mean, it's like our milestones are huge. And so, yes, absolutely. It's he wouldn't do the work necessary or maybe she cheated. And I just did a consult recently. I had an affair 10 years ago. I was willing to move on. I was willing to go to therapy. I wanted to do the work and he couldn't. He never got over it. He throws it in my face every day and it just drags the relationship to a screeching halt. And so that's absolutely right. Can you get a great therapist or counselor, which can be difficult to do and do the work needed if both people want to save the relationship? And our law firm is very, very resolution oriented,

reconciliation oriented, and it doesn't happen a lot. But if people are like, we need a therapist, we want to work on this, we want to put this on hold, I give lots of space for that timeline and for that to happen. Does it happen a lot? No. It's like my sobriety. Without first of all taking accountability and realizing what you did was wrong or in my case when it comes to my sobriety is first admitting that I have a problem, right?

And you can't continue to a seesaw back and forth. Like it can't be like, oh, yes, I do. Oh, no, I don't. I'm just a social drinker. Like, no, I had to have a come to Jesus moment and be like, I actually have a drinking problem. And if I want to get better, I have to do the work and do the steps and get into a program and all of it.

And that's the same thing with infidelity. It's, it was the teeter tottering. It's like, okay, yes, no, maybe I didn't technically cheat on you or remember when you did this. It's like that, to me, just is a huge red flag. Cheryl, let me give you a virtual high five, virtual hug. Alcohol is the poison of family court. I am so impressed with you.

What a great lifestyle. So congratulations. Thank you. Thank you. My boyfriend's professor is way too friendly, and now I'm seriously suspicious. Wait a minute, Sam. Maybe her boyfriend's just looking for extra credit. Well, Dakota, it's back.

to school week on the okay story time podcast, so we'll find out soon. This person writes, my boyfriend has been hanging out with his young professor a lot. He doesn't think it's a problem, but I don't trust her. Now, he's insisting we get to know each other, but I just want her gone. Now, hold up. Isn't that against school policy? That sounds totally inappropriate. Well, according to this person, this is her boyfriend's former professor, and they're the same age.

And it's even more likely that they're cheating. He insists there's nothing between them. I mean, do you believe him? Well, he's certainly trying to get this person to believe him because he now wants them both to meet. So, do we find out if this person's boyfriend really cheated with his professor or not? To hear the explosive finale, listen to the OK Storytime podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Hi, my name is Enya Umanzor. And I'm Drew Phillips. And we run a podcast called Emergency Intercom. If you're a crime junkie and you love crimes,

we're not the podcast for you. But if you have unmedicated ADHD, ADHD... Oh my God, perfect. And want to hear people with mental illness, psychobabble. Yes, yes. Then Emergency Intercom is the podcast for you. Open your free IHeartRadio app. Search Emergency Intercom and listen now. A foot washed up a shoe with some bones in it. They had no idea who it was.

Most everything was burned up pretty good from the fire that not a whole lot was salvageable. These are the coldest of cold cases, but everything is about to change. Every case that is a cold. case that has DNA. Right now in a backlog will be identified in our lifetime. A small lab in Texas is cracking the code on DNA. Using new scientific tools, they're finding clues in evidence so tiny you might just miss it. He never thought he was going to get caught. And I just looked at my computer screen. I was just like, gotcha.

On America's Crime Lab, we'll learn about victims and survivors. And you'll meet the team behind the scenes at Othrum, the Houston Lab that takes on the most whole. hopeless cases, to finally solve the unsolvable. Listen to America's Crime Lab on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Your entire identity has been fabricated. Your beloved brother goes missing without a trace. You discover the depths of your mother's illness, the way it has echoed and reverberated throughout your life, impacting your very legacy.

Hi, I'm Danny Shapiro. These are just a few of the profound and powerful stories I'll be mining on our 12th season of Family Secrets. With over 37 million downloads, we continue to be moved and inspired by our guests and their courageously told stories. I can't wait to share 10 powerful new episodes with you, stories of tangled up identities, concealed truths, and the way in which family secrets almost always need to be told. I hope you'll join me and my extraordinary guests for this new season of Family Secrets. Listen to Family Secrets Season 12 on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What is the number one reason why people are getting divorced when they come into your office?

Grown apart, different places in life. If I had to pick one, and I get that question a lot, so I would not. select infidelity. I think that's really a byproduct of other things that are happening. I have a theory about society with this push to 20-year-old people, everybody, whoever you've been with for a year, it's like, what's the next step in life? Do you want to have kids? What are you doing? I think young people get married too quickly. If you really go through all of the seasons with someone, deal with difficulty, how do you two communicate? I am so lucky.

I'm married to a man who's emotionally mature. He can communicate. And I don't see that a heck of a lot. And it's people who are in different places and eventually take the kids out of it because sometimes people stay married or I'll see you when my kids are 15 and up because I know this isn't the right relationship for me. But looking back, people see the red flags. I've had more than 10 consults in the last year that will say,

I knew I shouldn't have married this person when we were walking down the aisle. That is so heartbreaking. Yeah, I had one of those. I had one of those and went into the bathroom and cried about it because I was like, well, crap. This is the thing with being in the business. It's like it just felt like a dress rehearsal. Yeah. Right.

And why couldn't you, why couldn't you pull out of that moment? There was no way in hell. We had the magazine, you know, thing already. They were paid. I had Mindy Weiss involved. Like this was not. People already had their tickets and how could I, how could I ruin people's plans was what my thought was.

Like their airline tickets or like their tickets to the show. Like the plans. How could I ruin that for them? Yeah. You're right. They've already spent their money on it. Yep. And nothing, nothing in our thought process was like,

maybe this is wrong and I need to like runaway bride it you know it's yeah that's the part where it's you know it's sad now to think because I believe and now I know in my you know this age being 40 that if I would have texted my mom and said hey I want to actually call this off because I don't think it's right she would be like I 1,000 percent I will let everyone know and I will you know she would have been there it was just my own embarrassment and maybe you know my not I wasn't 100% sure. So I thought maybe I'd change my mind. I thought maybe I'd get that feeling back when I walked down the aisle. What did you feel when you walked down the aisle? I just had of curiosity. Just complete regret. Oh, really? You were present though with yourself? Yeah. Yeah. Because I told my best

friend in the bathroom. I was like, I just made the biggest mistake. And now I don't want to, my whole thing was I don't want to be divorced with kids because that's the house that I grew up in. So I was like, I got to divorce them right away because I will end up having babies and then we'll get divorced. And I don't want that. So that was why I then did that, you know. So, but it was, it was wrong. And it was, it was real to somebody else. And that wasn't fair, you know. So now would you have gone, would you have stopped everything? A hundred percent. And that's why I think to your point, Kate, is marrying later in life, you know yourself more now. And it's, I never want to tell. Like, when I hear someone young getting married that's in their middle 20s or, you know,

like, I'm like, oh, gosh, it like almost like breaks my heart. And I always want to celebrate love, but I also know how much you grow during those years, too. And but then also, who am I to say? What is young? What is young? Yeah. I'm like, maybe they're, you know, maybe they'll end up being together forever. So who am I to say?

And what a learning lesson? Like, what I've learned? Like, I've learned so much too. Yeah. And so it's like, why would I want to take that away from people too, you know? Yeah. I do like the, the discussion of it's part of your story. it makes you part of who you are.

But my every day is seeing the heartbreak of divorce and the heartbreak that it brings even the greater family, everybody in the family unit. And so young people, I say, and I love weddings and I love love. And by the way, I love the name of this podcast. We did, I have a friend who owns a magazine in our community. And we ran a short ad for our divorce in a day program that was when you're, I do needs a redo, do it in a day. And I thought, oh, as soon as I saw the title of this podcast, I thought, that's fantastic. It's great idea. Well, speaking of redos, though, I mean, Bill Gates

recently made headlines because he was saying, you know, his divorce was the mistake he most regretted. And, you know, have you, like, you kind of spoke on it a little bit, but have you seen people then say, never mind? Like, yeah, you said that they want to maybe do therapy, but do they end up coming back and getting divorced? Or have you had more people actually pull it off the table? They will come back and get divorced. And I saw that and, you know, Bill and Melinda had a long-term marriage. And I thought the comment was interesting.

I'm going to predict that he doesn't mean he wishes he was still married to her. I think they had their longstanding issues. And it's a very painful process. It's very difficult. We almost never have people. actually reconcile and stay reconciled. I've had couples get divorced, remarried, divorced. I divorced the same couple three times throughout my career. And they're kind of just a love, hate, toxic, strong feelings. And no, we did a, Chris and I did a mediation recently

where the couple really felt strongly about their relationship. They knew it was the right thing. They were very sweet people and they asked us to hold their paperwork. They wanted to give it a, you know, a little bit of time and called within 60 days and said, file it. And with the final decree and everything, we don't really see the reconciliation that's successful long term. So when you saw J-Lo and Ben then recognize, I know they weren't married. They were engaged, though. So when you saw them get back together, then get married, did you already go divorce? Absolutely. They're just like that. I mean, it really is just like that couple. And of course, they have the heightened, the money, the attention, everything that goes along with being an A-Lister and everybody's watching, which makes it more painful. I mean, you've seen some of J-Lo statements and I think it's incredibly painful. I also think that very famous celebrities tend to have traits of loneliness because that is such an isolating life to live, I think.

I mean, that's because they're not, though, finding the true love, which happens within you, right? Like, you complete you regardless. Like, there is no other person that would fill that void for you. So if you haven't done that work individually as two separate people, it's going to be really hard that you are leaving it up for so many expectations on one another that you're bound to not ever live up to it. That's right. And not as a negative to people like Ben and J-Lo who have those e-go. I don't mean that in a negative way. It's just part of their personality.

But how exhausting to support someone as fabulous and famous as you are all the time and have that constant balance in your life. How do they find a balance, I think? But yeah, I figure they'll be splitting up again. My boyfriend's professor is way too friendly, and now I'm seriously suspicious. Well, wait a minute, Sam, maybe her boyfriend's just looking for extra credit. Well, Dakota, it's back to school week on the OK Storytime podcast, so we'll find out soon. This person writes, my boyfriend has been hanging out with his young professor a lot.

He doesn't think it's a problem, but I don't trust her. Now, he's insisting we get to know each other, but I just want her gone. Now, hold up. Isn't that against school policy? That sounds totally inappropriate. Well, according to this person, this is her boyfriend's former professor, and they're the same age. And it's even more likely that they're cheating. He insists there's nothing between them.

I mean, do you believe him? Well, he's certainly trying to get this person to believe him because he now wants them both to meet. So, do we find out if this person's boyfriend really cheated with his professor or not? To hear the explosive finale, listen to the OK Storytime podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Hi, my name is Enya Umanzor. And I'm Drew Phillips. And we run a podcast called Emergency Intercom. If you're a crime junkie and you love crimes, we're not the podcast for you.

But if you have unmedicated ADHD... Oh my God, perfect. And want to hear people with mental illness, psychobabble. Yes, yes. Then Emergency Intercom's the podcast for you. Open your free IHeartRadio app. Search Emergency Intercom and listen now. A foot washed up a shoe with some bones in it.

They had no idea who it was. Most everything was burned up pretty good from the fire that not a whole lot was salvageable. These are the coldest of cold cases. But everything is about to change. Every case that is a cold case that has DNA right now in a backlog will be identified in our lifetime. A small lab in Texas is cracking the code on DNA. Using new scientific tools, they're finding clues in evidence so tiny you might just miss it.

He never thought he was going to get caught. And I just looked at my computer screen. I was just like, ah, got you. On America's crime lab, we'll learn about victims and survivors. and you'll meet the team behind the scenes at Othrum, the Houston Lab that takes on the most hopeless cases to finally solve the unsolvable. Listen to America's Crime Lab on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,

or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Jennifer Lopez, and in the new season of the Overcover podcast, I'm taking you on an exciting journey of self-reflection. Am I ready to enter this new part of my life? Like, am I ready to be in a relationship? Am I ready to have kids and to really just devote myself and my time? I wanted to be successful on my own, not just because of who my mom is.

Like, I felt like I needed to be better or work twice as hard as she did. Join me for conversations about healing and growth. Life is freaking hard. And growth doesn't happen in comfort. It happens in motion, even when you're hurting. All from one of my favorite spaces, The Kitchen. Honestly, these are going to come out so freaking amazing. Be a part of my new chapter and listen to the new season of the Overcumper podcast

as part of the MyCultura podcast network on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Do you think it's easier or more complicated to get divorce late in life? Easier. The silver divorce. Oh yeah. So, Cheryl, what is that? Because I, you know, I saw you were talking about silver divorce. So I have, I don't know what it is.

is. Tell me what it is. I mean, I just found out today, but silver divorce is like when you divorce later in life, right? When you're like in your 50, 50, 60s, I think. And you realize that, wow, this is not the person I want to live my rest of my life with. But I also think it's generational, right? So like, I just think about my parents right now. I come from a divorce family, but my mom remarried my stepfather. And if they were too divorced today, there's so much, it's generational in the sense of, first of all, when my mom, you know, was being raised by her parents, there was no such thing. Like, there, she's Filipino. She's very Catholic. And there's a lot of shame that comes with it. But I think with how open we are now with mental health, I think it's leaving that

door maybe a little bit open for that generation nowadays to be like, you know what, I'm going to choose me. That's right. And my message to women is choose you when you're, 40 or when the kids are out of the house. I have a lot of experience with gray or silver divorce, whichever you call it. My law firms in Phoenix. We're very close to a lot of retirement communities, as you can imagine. And I have had a lot of both men and women in their 70s, 80s, late 80s. Can you imagine going through this awful process?

The silver lining is that they're pretty. calm about the whole situation. And here's the sad part. This is my message to middle-aged women because they knew. Say it's a silver divorce that they have been truly married 50 years, not a second marriage. And the kids are long gone. All of the properties community, they all, first of all, everybody tells me how many years they've been living in separate bedrooms, how long it's been since they've had sex with each other, and it's decades. I mean, decades that they've been living as roommates, and it's such an awful process, no one wanted to start it. But it's, we all know, the three of us are about the same age.

When you're 50, you have a whole life ahead of you. I mean, that's the heartbreaking part when I see the silver divorce, because they've been, you know, they've been roommates for decades, frankly. I see it the opposite. Like, I think it's a beautiful thing that they're, like, finally seeing. themselves, like as their own person. And like we do, we evolve. And sometimes it's with that person you've decided to partner with. And sometimes it's not. And that's okay. But I think it's beautiful that they're opening their eyes and trying to walk the rest of their life in a present, hopefully loving themselves way, you know, and doing that work. And I think it's really beautiful.

It is beautiful. You're right. But it's always because the husband gets a girlfriend. I mean, but like you said earlier, it's deeper than that. It's so much deeper. I don't think it's that just because of that. I think it there was like, like you said, decades of not sleeping together, roommate. Like that goes, I have had that same experience except not even close to as long as those people have been married, you know, that's feeling of stagnant, like that stagnation feeling. I am out. I'm out fast. I can't be in it. You're right. That is, it is much better. And with these communities that we have in this area, there's so many activities and new friend groups and support groups and any new beginning or a chance at finding yourself is worth it. I agree. Is it hard for you to be a divorce lawyer? It's not. And I can't really explain the reason because most of my colleagues find it to be incredibly difficult on a personal lawyer. they take the feelings home with them and I've just never been like that and I don't really know the reason I'm just suited for the job I see it as a puzzle I really really I could be a life coach in another life although I'm not trained for that I really enjoy it and I've as after 30 I no

longer work every hour of the week I have really good boundaries all my clients have my cell phone number. They treat it appropriately. I really like my job, but I, if other divorce lawyers are telling you the truth, I think I'm in the minority on that. How do you separate the emotion? Like, how do you do that? It stays at the office. I really treat this as a job that I like. I care about my clients. I think they really care. I have wonderful clients. I'm very realistic stick with people. You probably know divorce attorneys can treat the job as making a lot of money, fighting a lot, filing a lot of motions, billing by the hour, the more fighting, the sooner my kids get their college paid. I mean, that's a reality of the job. And our business model is

saving people money, keeping the emotions in check. I'm very realistic with them up front. We talk about their goals. We talk about the law. We talk about the process. We talk about mediation. And I, our office is trying to change the culture of divorce in Arizona. And that's how I treat it. Would you recommend a pre-up for people that get married? I do recommend a pre-up. And I don't think that it should hold the stereotype of you're getting a pre-up. and that's anti-love or if you're going to be together you don't need it. I think there are

many benefits to a pre-nup and anybody who's not 20 with nothing should consider it. Yeah, no, for sure. I guess my piece with the divorce just for my personal stuff is the fact that

I pay my ex-husband I paid him a lump sum and I also pay him child support and I have the kid 70, it's 70-30 split. So I find it, I always get a little, like, frustrated when I have conversations of just, you know, because divorce and because it kind of just brings up all those, you know, those feelings and that resentment. And it's just, it's just yuck. I don't like it. Do you wish you would have signed a pre-nup?

We had a post-nup. But the problem was my divorce lawyer said it's not going to hold up in court as well as a pre-nup. And he's like, he technically can fight it and he could still technically win half. you know, which my ex hasn't at the time was like, I will never fight this. You know what I mean? Which, of course, when we got divorced, he's like, I'm going to fight this. But apparently, again, the pre-nup will always hold up. And is that right or wrong?

A pre-nup holds up better than post-nup. That's exactly right. So that's why, you know, with that situation, it's, I wish for sure I would have had signed a pre-nip with him. pre-nep. But, you know, at the end of the day, I still would be paying child support. That is the law of with the things. And that's, you know, a whole other story. But, um, feel free to tell me to fuck off. But did you sign one this time around? So we have never discussed that. We're still not going to discuss that. But, um, but, you know, it was, it was a very long conversation. We had a lot of conversation around it. And, uh, I think it's really hard for men to have that conversation.

especially, you know, my husband is very old school and, you know, did not love the idea of it. And, you know, whatever we decided was a private matter, but it was something that was very important. I'll just say it was very important to me because of how much was taken from my ex, how much my ex-husband took. I think you probably, even if you did or didn't, having that conversation, you're miles ahead of most people because it's such a, tough topic. If you two talked it through and talked about all your assets and what you think for the future, that's, you're doing better than a lot of people before they get married. So super. But my, my divorce attorney was definitely like, you are having, like, there is no, like, he's like, you are signing this. And I'm just like, okay, I hear you. And I need to have, we have to have

conversations. It's a conversation piece. Because I, I am, you know, old school in the fact that I do believe and, you know, love and a marriage actually lasting, I, you know, I didn't get it right this go around. And that's why I love this podcast, because this is about, you know, I do part two. And, you know, Cheryl, I didn't get it right a couple times. And Cheryl, you know, you didn't, we thought you got it right. You know what I mean? But I think there's a piece of the I do part two that I love and where, you know, as sad as, when I asked you the question about, you know, is it hard for you? because I believe that as much as divorce makes me so sad, Cheryl, I've seen from watching you on the outside of things, you have, there's a different aura about you now. You're happier,

you're lighter. You've, like, I see it from just watching your stories. And I love that people have their next chapters and that they get to fall in love again and find love that they deserve and that suits them and that, you know, respects them. And so that, is like so beautiful and you've come into your own and like it's just it's really beautiful to witness someone falling in love with themselves for then that person to fall in love with them and respect them the way that they deserve so um you know I appreciate um Kate you coming on and talking to us and um you know I just I look forward to all the people that have their part too Cheryl yours is coming up soon girl it's coming it's coming I feel the glow up I do I just I see it

and I love the lightness in you, you know, you've, you've entered the lights. Definitely different from our last conversation. Yeah. Kate, thank you so much for coming on. Thank you both. Are you divorced navigating what your I do part two could look like and need some advice. Call us or email us, follow us on socials. All the information will be in the show notes.

Make sure to rate and review the podcast. I do part two. An IHeartRadio podcast where falling in love is the main objective. Love you, Cheryl. Love you. My boyfriend's professor is way too friendly, and now I'm seriously suspicious. Wait a minute, Sam. Maybe her boyfriend's just looking for extra credit.

Well, Dakota, luckily, it's back to school week on the OK Storytime podcast, so we'll find out soon. This person writes, my boyfriend's been hanging out with his young professor a lot. He doesn't think it's a problem, but I don't trust her. Now he's insisting we get to know each other, but I just want her gone. Hold up. Isn't that against school policy? That seems inappropriate. Maybe find out how it ends by listening to the OK Storytime Podcasts and the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Let's start with a quick puzzle. The answer is Ken Jennings' appearance on The Puzzler with A.J. Jacobs. The question is, what is the most entertaining listening experience in podcast land?

Jeopardy Truthers believe in... I guess they would be... conspiracy theorists. That's right. They give you the answers, and you still blew it. The Puzzler. Listen on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, my name is Enya Umanzor.

And I'm Drew Phillips. And we run a podcast called Emergency Intercom. If you're a crime junkie and you love crimes, we're not the podcast for you. But if you have unmedicated ADHD, Oh my God, perfect. And want to hear people with mental illness, psychobabble. Yes, yes. Then Emergency Intercom is the podcast for you.

Open your free IHeartRadio app. Search Emergency Intercom and listen now. What would you do if one bad decision forced you to choose between a maximum security prison or the most brutal boot camp designed to be hell on earth? Unfortunately for Mark Lombardo, this was the choice he faced. He said, you are a number, a New York State number. and we own you. Listen to shock incarceration on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

This is an IHeart podcast.