The Ben and Ashley I Almost Famous Podcast - Is RHOSLC Britani Bateman REALLY Man Crazy? Brian Austin Green Wants To Know!

Episode Date: September 17, 2026

Ting, ting, ting! We have an announcement! RHOSLC Britani Bateman is opening up to Brian Austin Green about how two divorces led her to finding her self-worth, and learning to prioritize men less. Britani opens up about who she’s dating now, and what she’s excited to clear up on the latest season of Real Housewives.  Email us at: [e-mail] or call us at 844-4-I Do Pod (844-443-6763)Follow I Do, Part 2 on Instagram and TikTokSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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This is, I'm your celebrity mentor, Brian Austin Green, and ting, ting, ting. I have an announcement. I do. I have an announcement. So today I'm talking with singer, and we discussed it, singer, absolutely, actress, one of the stars of the Real Housewives of Salt Lake City. Brittany Bateman. Hello? Hi, Brian.

We have never met before. This is amazing. This is so much fun. I love this. It feels like we have. Like, you just instantly feel like one of those people that, Ting, Ting, Ting, Ting, I have an announcement, Brian and our friends. Yeah, who knows how long this friendship will last.

You never, ever know. It's, I always say, like, it's really fun sitting down with new people because, as I said, I don't research a lot. Like, I really enjoy sitting down with people I don't know and going, hey, let's both of us connect. Let's both talk about some real things. I'll ask you some questions. You'll ask me some.

Like, we'll get into the weeds of all of it. And it kind of makes for a fun listen. I think for fans, you know, because I love that. They get sit down interviews with you. Right. So they know all the stuff about the show and they watch the episodes. Yeah. But this is like...

Let's get to the real stuff. Yeah. Like, let's jump in. Let's get underneath it all. We've both lived lives. Like, we've had a lot of life that we've lived. We've had a lot of times where we have fallen. Yeah.

And we have to crawl that God of the grape. crawl out of the hole. But I think that's the thing though that separates people. You know, you have some people that fall and they just sort of wallow in it. They define themselves by that. And they don't know how to get out of it. Well, yeah. And success is determined by how tenaciously you climb back out of the hole.

Because everyone fails. And the winners are the ones that have failed thousands of times. I welcome failure in a weird way. Like I never thought when I was younger I would say that. Right. But I welcome failure because. Because looking back on it, not in the moment, in the moment, you're like, this is the worst. Why am I going through this right now?

Like, what did I do to deserve this? Yeah. But then you look back on all of it and you go, man, what a catalyst for change for me. Like, what a great experience I went through because I learned so much from that. I grew so much from that. Well, if you are determined to get to the finish line, then every failure is just another step to get there. Sure. I mean, the only failure really is.

is giving up. Good one. Right? Ting, ting, boom. Mic drop. These mics are on stands

so we can't drop them and IHeart would be pissed if we did because we could break something. That's true. That's fair. But yeah, and that kind of,

so the show is called I do part two. And it's really jumping into this concept of people in the world have gone through multiple relationships and you've kind of

gotten to a point where you go, how did I get here? I didn't expect it. I was married for almost 10 years in a relationship for 15. And then, and we had three kids. And then all of a sudden, we are divorced. Yeah.

And how did that happen? Well, a whole series of events. What's the quick Reader's Digest version? It's. People don't say that anymore. I think so, you know, I think it is, I think it's important to, figure out what path you're on in life. And you kind of, you find people where you go, we're on the same path. Yeah, let's do this path together. And then you sort of grow in different

directions. And my ex-wife and I grew in completely different direction. She was younger than me. She really got in sort of early on my life. I already had a child. She went through a lot with me. And I think she got to the point in life where she was like, I don't feel like I've really lived enough of my life. Oh, interesting. Yeah. Makes sense. Her path went in a different way.

Divergence. It's hard because there are times where you go, God, why is this happening? But the reality is it's happening. You can't do anything to change the course of it. So you just sort of ride it. You go, okay. Yeah. Well, you can't control other people, but it,

Yeah, you hope that there's something that we can do to stay aligned. It's alignment. Really, that's what you're saying. Yeah. It's alignment and you become disaligned or misaligned. And you just, even one degree, you just veer off. Alignment is a hard thing, though, because sometimes you go into relationships thinking you want something that you don't actually want.

Oh, that's interesting. Like what? You're like, ooh, I really, well, I really want to settle down and I want to have a family and I want to do a thing. And then as you're getting into it and it starts getting really serious and heavy, you start second-guessing it and going, am I really ready for this? Interesting. And I think a lot of people do that. A lot of people think, you know, okay, our relationship is great, but getting married, having a family, that's what we're missing.

And then they have that. And then they go, that wasn't at all. I think we were missing much more of a genuine connection. and it's not something that was fixed by saying I do, having kids. But you don't really know that until you're in it. That's true. An emotional connection is something that is a life in and of itself. Nothing you can do.

Like you can bring your spouse or your partner roses every day, but that doesn't necessarily make you more connected emotionally. You can say, oh, but I do this for you and I do that for you. And you should feel emotionally connected to me. me, well, that's not what emotional connection is. Right. It's an intangible something where you hold space for the other person and their wants, their desires, their belief system.

Do you believe in love languages? Oh, yeah. Definitely. Do you know what yours is? I haven't read the book. I mean, I think it's. So mine is acts of service. Is it?

Okay, mine is too. I feel the best when people do things. for me because then I feel like, oh, I'm at the forefront of your mind. You know, it's like you have your busy day. You have all your stuff. But you made sure that and it's little things. It could be a cup of coffee in the morning before work. It could be these, it's just these tiny little things.

But then I think sometimes we get so caught up in what our own love language is that we don't really pay attention to what the other person's love language is. And that's emotional connection. That's emotional connection. Holding space for their love languages. not just like giving what you like to receive. That's the trick. That's hard to do though.

It's hard to do. When you're younger and you're in that space of like, I just want to feel good myself. Yeah. You forget that like, oh, the other person has to feel good also. Yeah. When you're young, you're just kind of naturally selfish. And one thing about...

Of course. Yeah, you have to sort of grow out of that. And hopefully, as a couple, you grow together in alignment through your selfishness and you become unselfish together. Or if you don't, you just grow apart. Are you born and raised in Salt Lake City? I was born in Provo. Okay.

And then moved to California until I grew up in California. Southern and the Northern. Yeah. And then I went to BYU, Brigham Young back in Utah and just stayed. And just stayed? Yeah. And how... Got married there and...

And you've been married twice. Yes. I know. Well, no. I know. But there's, again, there is that past. A lot of chapters. Where you look back and you go, man, this is like, these are the things that define me and really made me understand what I want, what I don't want. The refiners fire, as they say.

Who I am, what I'm good at, what I suck at. Right. Like, I got out of my marriage and I was like, okay, I need therapy because I don't want to do the same things that I did poorly in this last relationship. relationship. I don't want to keep reliving that. I want to learn and grow from it. Yes. Amazing. Have you gotten therapy? Oh, for sure. Good. Still. In the form of talk therapy, like with a therapist? Talk, well, talk therapy. Um, yeah, but I, so therapy for me was I, I, I didn't grow up in a household with, like, healthy debate. I've talked about this before. I grew up in a household where,

my parents were were from these much more rigid families when they were younger, you know, products of the 40s and the 50s and all that. More traditional. Yeah, relationships with your kids

was your kids are meant to be seen and not heard. Yes. So it was like, listen, you know, this is the way to do it. Just listen to me. I've got you. Like, I don't want you to freethink at all. Like I've learned. So it was very much the same,

a lot of this. the same concept when I was a kid. Yeah. Yeah. It was just like, why free think, I know that I've done all this. I know the better way to do this and handle it. So just trust, just listen. But the problem with that. Basically every religion. Well, the, yeah, exactly. The problem with that is that is that you don't allow people then to fall. Yeah. Say, ouch, and learn from situations and grow. So then by the time I was in my late 20s, where I should have already done all. of that, I was brand new in it. Wow. I was like, because I started working when I was nine and I was doing the show from 17 to 27. So I just was my mom was my business manager. My dad was my manager. Like it was just very,

it was this very sort of strange circle that I was in where if it works, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. Right. Right. That was sort of. That's fascinating. So almost like arrested development a little bit. Like arrested development. Yeah. And then when I got to the point where I was like, I should really be on my own making some of these decisions.

Yeah. I was like, I don't know. I don't know the first thing about any of these things. Hey, at least your brain was developed when you figured that out because your brain develops about 25. So hey, you had that going for you. I had that going for me. And then coming out of the marriage, I was like, okay, let me like really figure out

the stuff that I'm not good at. that I didn't develop when I was younger. What do you think that was? Can you pinpoint it? Listening very well, my communication skills, my ability to step back out of myself and not make it all about me all the time. Are you an empath?

I am an empath. Yeah. Yeah. For sure, I am. But I didn't, because I wasn't good at listening and like really being empathetic with people, I didn't understand my abilities.

And I didn't know that I could sit with people and really be a safe place for people to sort of speak and live. And we could create an amazing connection with that. But you have to be aware of that. Yeah. You have to be in a place where you go, I'm going to put myself like that. Yeah, yeah.

How are you? Yes. And then like genuinely sit and listen. Yeah. Genuinely be interested. Yeah. Yeah. And a lot of people.

aren't. Yeah. That's so true. It's rare. It's super rare. How let's, I want to get into the show. Yeah. A little bit. Just a, just a, just a tiny little, you know, it's like seasoning on that. Yeah. Okay. It's, you know, pasta sauce isn't good without the little things in it. I was thinking about this before. This has got to be, I would assume, it's got to be really difficult to be on a show. like you're on because in a sense you are playing yourself, but you're playing a heightened version of yourself. And then it's edited. It's a story that's told by other people. Right. They have free reign to sort of do that.

Right. How is that? Do you feel really misunderstood? Oh, yeah. Yeah? And I think that, I mean, I kind of knew that's, I knew what I was signing up for a little bit. I'd watched a couple episodes before I signed the contract and started filming,

but I didn't really know what I was getting myself into. I wish that I had been more prepared, and in fact I was ill-prepared for... How do you feel you could have been more prepared? If I had just watched the show. Right. If I had just watched Housewives to know, like, what it was about and how you become kind of almost a caricature of yourself. Sure.

It's not really... The layers are only what... editing and producers want people to see. They find out quickly what part you can play in it. And then they go, okay, we need this type of a character. We need this type of a character. We need the one that everybody's always rooting for. And they're always like, oh, poor thing.

I hope she figures it out. Yeah. And then they run with it. Yeah. And like you said, it's a heightened version of yourself. Yes, it's you. And you're not playing anything. You're just showing up on the job as you.

And you don't know what you're getting yourself into. that's even if you knew what you were getting yourself into. Are you ever playing at all? Or are you genuinely like you are yourself? Yes. They create everything then. I am absolutely myself. I think some people are performative, but I am, and I'm just performative by nature. That's just me. I'm kind of a drama queen. I'm just a theater nerd. Are you? Yeah. So like I show up and I'm funny and I'm dramatic and I try to add lovety. But man, they, they're quick to slap you down and put you in your place. other ladies. There's no shortcut for saving time, but saving money is simple. Just combine your car and home insurance with Bel Air Direct and save. Get a quote at bellairdirect.com. Hi, this is Kylie Brakeman. Angel Geratana.

Jeremy Colhain. Patrick McDonald. And we're the hosts of the Artists on Artists on Artists on Artists Podcast. The Improvised Character Comedy Podcast where each week a new panel of artists discuss their craft. Join us for a panel of wellness influencers. What I try to do is faux journal. I don't know. Have you guys heard of faux journaling? Yeah, it's reading.

It's called reading. So we don't like to use that word anymore. Okay. A panel of New Yorker cartoonists. Have you guys done Terry Gross's Peloton class? No! I've been dying too. I'm so sorry.

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Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. By age 11 or so, at least 70% have a phone. Middle School is a different world than the one we grew up in. I'm Dr. Joy, and this is Therapy for Black Girls. We spend real time on it in our surviving middle school run, bringing in a child psychologist and a psychiatrist who's raising two Black girls of his own to talk about what's really going on with our kids right now.

So it's literally physiological and neurological and psychological chaos happening all the same time. We got into group chats and gaming, friendships and bullying, and how to tell the difference between healthy monitoring and the kind of surveillance that erodes trust. There's belonging. You could think of belonging as I can be myself and I can still be accepted. And then there's fitting in. Spitting in says I have to change who I am in order to avoid rejection.

Then we turn the conversation toward the fathers, sitting down with therapist Keir Gaines on Black fatherhood and what it means to raise a daughter through this stage. You don't have on shorts, so you can't do flips. You have on the dressy. You have to cross your legs. That's the range of this run, from screen time to identity to the father's doing the work at home. You have to get off her device. But the reality is there's a lot of life out there that we don't want you as your adults in their life to miss out on.

This has been our surviving middle school run. Brought to you by the people who spend their careers thinking about exactly this. I'm Dr. Joy. Listen to Therapy for Black Girls on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. You're not incurable. You're not broken. You're having a normal human experience, and we have a solution for that. And that solution is our show Free Therapy. I'm Ben. And I'm Kevin. And we think everyone could use a little bit of therapy, including us. Absolutely. That's why each week, we sit down with a different therapist to talk about the things we're all dealing with. If you're trying to get rid of anxiety, you're actually fueling more anxiety. We talk to some of

the leading therapist in the country about all of life's headaches, work, family dynamics, and of course, dating and relationships. Everyone chooses a different set of problems, challenges, flaws. You have to figure out which set of problems you're willing to work with. So listen to free therapy with Ben and Kevin on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Because therapy is expensive, but our podcast is free. Is it a prerequisite? Like do the producers, when they're going through names and faces of people, do they find, do they find women that generally do not get along well with other women?

Because it seems very much like you're putting a bunch of people that shouldn't be around other people all together in a room. And then you're going, you guys duke it out. And we just want to shoot it. It's going to be great TV. Well, I think that, yeah, I mean, you do make a good point. They pick alpha females for sure. Right. Like we are all alpha females. Like in our other friend groups, we are all the leader. You're the queen bee. Yeah. And you put a whole bunch of queen bees in one hive and you're going to get, you're going to get some stings.

And then they force you guys to do together. Like they give you schedules of what your day is going to be, right? They kind of come up with some ideas. Yes and no. I mean, we do have a lot of say. Like they ask us, you know, not to get too much in the weeds of how production goes because they don't like us talking about that. But we have some say in our schedules and who we want to film with and who we don't want to film with.

And yeah, I mean, so in that, in that regard, it's very authentic. It's fascinating for me. Being an actor, I get praise. Which you're great, by the way. Thank you. I get praise for being different characters. Like, I can go on a set and be a completely disturbed, horrible human being. And people clap at the end of the day.

I go, that was great. You are yourself. Or you're a version of yourself, but it's all under your name. So you are highly scrutinized. But you're edited to be a, character just like any other actors. So true. Well, I've done scripted too. So I've been in your shoes as well. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And that's, it's just different because when you're doing scripted, your acting is just thinking and you're thinking the thoughts of whoever this person is. And then

whatever that ends up coming out as is what it comes out as. So as an actor, as an actress, it's difficult sometimes to think those thoughts of someone that is evil or manipulative. But that's the fun of what it is we do. It is. We get to sort of like play with that. And then we get to do things at the end of the day where it's like I would never in a million years be this guy. Right. But it's kind of fun.

But in reality, you're just, you're thinking your own thoughts. You have your own motivations. You have your own objectives. You're acting solely, you know, as you're saying. And so you have to be accountable for all of your actions as well at the end of the day. No matter how it's edited, you're still the one that said that thing. You're still the one that did that thing. And so you still have to be accountable.

Context can be changed, though. And that's what's done in editing. It's like all of a sudden you go, that is not how I said it or where I said it or what I was responding to. That's hard. It's the same thing for me with like press and texts and all that. I hate them. So I did a little research on you.

Yeah. Shocking, right? Just to get a sense of, because I think it's really interesting in what it is we're talking about. And I wanted to see the dominant criticism that viewers of the show have a view. Ooh. Yeah. This is interesting. Yeah.

And they're just really, they're interesting to hear because I want you being able to step back and go, okay, this is the version of me that they see on the show. Right. So this isn't criticism of you. It's the same way I feel about comments. Yeah. I laugh. Yeah.

It's like you don't know me. Right. Exactly. You're not actually making that comment to me. You're making that comment to whatever you think. No, 100%. Yeah. Yeah.

And I read every comment. They say don't read them, but I do. Oh my God, but they're funny. They're so funny. The ones that are hysterical, I literally repost. And I do with a laughing emoji and I go, oh my God, this is genius. This is so great. And some of them are quite witty.

Like the insults are so witty. I just, I have to just like give them props for that. And I separate myself from them because it's like social media is all of you that are following me that are commenting. Yeah. You know the version of myself that you see in things. Right. So, but it's not really. And you're lovely in person, by the way.

Thank you. Same. Same. This is so much fun. So yeah, I'm dying here. Okay. Without further ado. The dominant criticism that viewers have a view is that you are attention seeking.

You're emotionally immature. Yes. you're overly focused on men. And sometimes you are spectacularly unable to read the room. I love that one. And I would say all of those are absolutely true. Yeah. Yes.

True. Let me see that. Let me see that. Yeah. Please. Emotionally mature. Check. Yes, I am emotionally mature sometimes.

Attention seeking always. Right. Hello. Who is an attention? Overly focused on men. I have been at times, sadly. Yeah, I've, I've, I've seeked validation from men just based on my past experiences. And thank heavens, I'm not doing that anymore.

I'm not even interested in dating anymore. I'm taking a break. I'm dating myself. I'm choosing myself now. So I'm spectacularly unable to read the room. I love that one because I was like, oh, okay, that's a very, yeah. There's some, oh, there's such great moments. Super telling.

Yeah. I'm just living my own life, kind of on the Brittany Island sometimes. So what's really funny is I read this also. There's this like substantial counter argument that you are exactly what a housewife is supposed to be. That you're unpredictable, that you're earnest to the point of awkwardness. You're unintentionally funny. Uh-huh. You're willing to embarrass yourself. That's true. You constantly create situations for the other women to react to. Do you, like, do you find that that's the truth also? Yes, it's all true. I can't deny any of that.

It's really interesting. All of it is in your perception of somebody. Yeah. Like, I think that's, I think the world is absolutely there's a perception to each thing. I have this conversation with people all the time that are turning 50. Mm-hmm. And they're like, oh, my God, I haven't accomplished anywhere near what I wanted to by the time I was 50. so they go right into complete midlife crisis and just melt down in it.

Oh, yeah. Oh, I had all of these things. That's a perception. Other perception, the flip side is, okay, this is the second act of my life. Right. My God, the first act, I lived such a long life. I did so many things. Right.

This one I get to start right now. I don't have to be in school. Right. I don't have to like be awkward and uncomfortable and figuring out who I am. Right. I get to start right now. So this is super excited. who do I want to be.

Uh-huh. It's just a perception. It's a perception. Yep. It's just looking at something from a different point of view. I choose be. I choose B.

I mean, 50s have been the best decade of my life. For those reasons, exactly. Yeah. We get to choose. We get to choose. I mean, everything in my life right now at this moment until the robots kill us

in about less than a decade. It's coming soon. I've been reading the news and apparently everyone that's created the AI is like, ooh, we should slow it down. Hitting the stuff. button hitting the ejection. You can't put the toothpaste back in the tube.

Eject, eject. Like it is, it's out. But I'm living my absolute best life. Kids are raised. I'm back with my kids. We got estranged for a minute there. And this season, we're going to start to see why I was estranged from my kids. People had a lot of harsh judgment about that. That was the painful part. I can say yes to all this stuff because it doesn't matter. Like if I'm unable to read a room, who cares? It's funny. Whatever. I can laugh at myself. It gives a shit. Yeah, exactly. And I'll get better at all things that I'm not good at. Exactly. You're aware of them. Yeah. That's the thing.

Oh, and they're absolutely true. And so what? Who cares? But the kids thing, that was breaking my heart because the first two seasons I was on, it really did look like from the way it was edited, the way the story was told. And I couldn't say otherwise. I was legally bound to just sort of bite my tongue. Shut up. Uh-huh.

And this season finally, we're scratching the surface on why exactly. was estranged from my children and thank heavens. We're all back together and doing better than ever because there's no worse pain than having some kind of barrier between your kids. I mean, oh, my precious babies. Right. So anyway, that's all tidied up. People speak it. People speak it too in a sense of like it's just a thing. It's like, no, this is my heart. Yeah. This is, I, I'm great with comments. Like, I can completely brush them off. But when, someone is commenting on me as a parent with my kids, it hits in a different. No, it does. It hits, it hits really low. It hurts because it's, there's no more, to me,

there's no more important job in my life. I say that. I say that all the time. There's no more important job in your life than raising children than doing a good, and these people making these comments. They don't know how you are as a parent. They don't know how you are with your kids at home. They don't know what you're doing. Right. They're seeing these tiny little bits and they're trying to make these sort of assessments on their own. It's like, you guys are not qualified. Right, right. You do not know the nuanced nature of the ins and outs of what has happened.

So that, that hits hard. And those kind of comments, I do respond to. Not with like a ha-ha, but like with respect, you have no idea what we've been through. And just wait. Just wait. And hopefully you can have some compassion and understanding for what we've all been through. There are certain times when I read comments and I, and like you, I try not to respond to any of them. Yeah.

But there are somewhere I go, you know what, this is an opportunity for a conversation that I think this person needs to hear and have also to get them out of this sense of just being judgmental. Like take a step back. Yeah. And I have this conversation sometimes politically with people. Oh, interesting. because it seems like things have sort of evened out a little bit. You know, you've got the one side, and it's sort of slowing down and they're realizing like,

okay, yeah, maybe I was misled a little bit. But it was, you know, I always would have, I would always approach these conversations with love and kindness and go, okay, listen, I'm not here to judge you. You feel the way you feel. I feel the way I feel. I don't understand your side at all. please just explain it to me.

And then I'll explain my side. Yeah. And then we'll see if either one of us learn from it and grow with it. And it's- Does it work? Does it usually work? Incredibly well. Good.

Me too. By the end, I have people going, I'm so, thank you so much for having this conversation. It's completely changed my views on this thing or that thing. I'll never again approach things this way. I'll never again comment this way. Oh, that's so sweet. You made a difference. But it's amazing.

grassroots level, one person at a time. But it's just listening. It's just being willing to go in and have a real conversation. It's holding space for someone else's opinion and asking them to do the same. That's what we're talking about. It's like we're so judged all the time. People just want to be able to speak and feel without being judged. It's like you can, your thoughts can be wrong. They can be skewed in one way based on just the one sort of. that you're getting those views from. Yeah. So kind of get all the views and then let's all make these choices together after we are as educated as we can. Exactly. And I think that they don't know. I think that people commenting just a random, nasty comment don't actually think that

there's a person on the other side that it's affecting. And so when I comment back, they're like, oh, you're actually a person. Okay. And I hurt your feelings? Oh, well, okay. Let's talk about this. You know what I mean? I think that makes a difference.

I think that makes a difference. To level the playing field a little bit. Like you do what you do. I do what I do. But we all have the same issues. We all have the same things going on. It doesn't matter where you live. You know, there may be variances to them based on the house that I live in.

But they're all really similar. So as soon as I level the playing field and I go, ooh, yeah, that hurts, doesn't? Yeah, yeah. I went through something similar. people go, oh my God, you did? That's unbelievable. And then you open the door to conversation. And I think it's important for people in our positions that have these weird soapboxes

that we do to be responsible with those. And go, man, I can bridge so many gaps with this. Yeah, it's a beautiful thing. I can either do this to get free clothing all the time or. And. Yeah. Not or. And.

Okay. And. Fair. Yes. Got it. Okay. Because who doesn't like free clothing? Right.

But you can also. Note. No. Who doesn't like free clothing? Note to self. I wear a size 11. Right. New balance.

I'm a big fan of your shoes. Right. And scene. But I think we have this really cool opportunity with what this position is. with what this position is that we're in to connect with people and do that. And it's really, it can be really special and really powerful. And it's, you know, you can build, you can build this like social media following based on just people that watch the show.

Or you can also build it with people that love you. Uh-huh. As a human being. So you can have both. Yes, and. Yes. There's no shortcut for saving time, but saving money is simple. Just combine your car and home insurance with Bel Air Direct and save.

Get a quote at bellairdirect.com. Hi, this is Kylie Breakman. Angel Geratana. Jeremy Colhane. Patrick McDonald. And we're the hosts of the Artists on Artists on Artists on Artists Podcast. The Improvised Character Comedy Podcast where each week a new panel of artists discuss their craft. Join us for a panel of wellness influencers.

What I try to do is faux-journer. I don't know. Have you guys heard of faux journaling? Yeah, it's reading. It's called reading. So we don't like to use that word anymore. Okay. A panel of New Yorker cartoonists. Have you guys done Terry Gross's Peloton class? No! I've been dying too. I'm so sorry. I'm seeing a reading of Sadako and the Thousand Paper Cranes by Audra McDonald's at the Wonderland Bookstore on 14.

That's crazy. I went to the Wonderland Bookstore yesterday and I heard Nora Jones do a reading of Zero Dark 30. No way. You have to come to the last bookstore, though. Kim Cottrell is reading the guitar tabs of yesterday. A panel of Eurovision participants. And we do a little Halloween sometimes. Does the Pope dress up? He winks on Halloween.

It's right up next to the microphone. I hear you can almost hear the eyelashes hit each other. You never seen Italy so quiet as when the Pope gets up to wink on Halloween. Listen to artists on artists on artists on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. By age 11 or so, at least 70% have a phone. Middle school is a different world than the one we grew up in. I'm Dr. Joy, and this is therapy for black girls.

We spend real time on it in our surviving middle school run, bringing in a child psychologist and a psychiatrist who's raising two black girls of his own to talk about what's really going on with our kids right now. So it's literally physiological and neurological and psychological and psychological chaos happening all this same job. We got into group. and gaming, friendships and bullying,

and how to tell the difference between healthy monitoring and the kind of surveillance that erodes trust. There's belonging. You could think of belonging as, I can be myself and I can still be accepted. And then there's fitting in. Spitting in says I have to change who I am in order to avoid rejection.

Then we turn the conversation toward the fathers, sitting down with therapist Keer Gaines on Black fatherhood and what it means to raise a daughter through this stage. You don't have on shorts, so you can't do flips, you have on the dress, you have to cross your legs. That's the range of this run, from screen time to identity to the father's doing the work at home. You have to get off her device. But the reality is there's a lot of life out there that we don't want you as your adults in their lives to miss out on.

This has been our surviving middle school run. Brought to you by the people who spend their careers thinking about exactly this. I'm Dr. Joy. Listen to Therapy for Black Girls on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. You're not incurable. You're not broken. You're having a normal human experience. And we have a solution for that. And that solution is our show Free Therapy. I'm Ben. And I'm Kevin. And we think everyone could use a little bit of therapy, including us. Absolutely. That's why each week we sit down with a different therapist to talk about the things we're all dealing with.

If you're trying to get rid of anxiety, you're actually fueling more anxiety. We talked to some of the leading therapists in the country about all of life's headaches, work, family dynamics, and of course, dating and relationships. Everyone chooses a different set of problems, challenges, flaws. You have to figure out which set of problems you're willing to work with. So listen to free therapy with Ben and Kevin on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Because therapy is expensive, but our podcast is free. Let's get into your previous marriages and kind of where how your head has shifted from the first one to the second one to where you are now. And I know it's a long span of time, but we have time.

Apparently, we have this studio for hours. Oh, my gosh. Nobody else is coming in. So hang on. Let's go. I'm going to put these down. Yeah, right. I feel like I've really sort of done, covered what I need to cover there.

So now let's get into Let's get into the nitty gritty. Because people want to know. And it's the, you know, it's the growth for people. Some people haven't been married the first time and they have this sort of fantasy, like romanticized version of what it is. And they have these expectations.

And then they get into something and they go, this is not at all what I expected. Yeah. Wow. Was that for you? Was it the same thing? Did you sort of have a... Yeah, I mean, yes and no.

Like my first marriage, it was, it was amazing. It was fantastic. I wasn't super young. I got into the relationship. We dated for five years, which was great. And I was 19 when we first started dating and 24 when we got married. So really, you know, my brain was almost developed when we got married, which is, which is old for Mormons.

That's questionable. Old for Mormons. All right. Usually Mormons get married if you hadn't had sex, you know, and that's the thing. That's what we just. Is that what pushes people into marriage? 100% is it really? Yeah, because you can't have sex before you're married.

And so you have to get married. So you're like, oh, let's just do this. Yeah. Okay. And then people find themselves stuck in having babies and then they realize, oh, wait, we don't love each other. Right. We don't even like each other. I just took this step for the sex.

Yeah, yeah. Fair. I mean, it would be helpful if you could kick the tires a little bit before. Absolutely. I'm a huge believer in kicking the tires. Yes. And other things. So, but luckily it was just, it,

It was beautiful. We had two kids. We were so happy. And I was just stay-at-home mom for a decade. And I really liked that. I did acting on the side. I did TV and movies and film. And I did Broadway before we got married.

So, I mean, I felt like I had done my career. I felt like my career was over. It's time to be a stay-at-home mom now. Right. Which I did. And then my husband ended up having an affair with his business partner. So that came out of left field. I mean, it was so utterly, shockingly, out of nowhere because I felt like we were so solid.

Nothing could ever permeate this marriage. Right. That I had no idea. It's not disrespectful, by the way, I think, to speak about things that are painful. And you're kind of in it. And it's like, listen, if what I'm saying doesn't make you look great, you're the one that did this. I'm just like recounting a story. I'm not calling you out or judging you at all.

So, you know, it's, I think there's a, there's a safety zone and a free and clear in that. I think, I mean, everyone has their reasons for why they do what they do. And I'm sure I had, I played some part in it. Maybe I was too naive. Maybe I, I was too complacent in where I was. You know what I mean? It was, it was a huge wake-up call. So then the years, the three years after that, I spent like just trying to be like, oh my gosh, I'll be better.

I'll change. I'll do this. I'll get a boob job. I'll grow my hair out long. I'll, you know what I mean? You just start like hyper focusing on yourself. Like what it's my fault? What did I do?

But really it wasn't my fault. Did you have a feeling, though, of like to be better, I need to do these physical things? So it was purely physical for you at that point. Yeah, I just felt so... Because he had cheated, you were like, oh, my hair isn't long enough or straight enough or my boobs aren't big enough. Right.

You just naturally feel that way. You just naturally have low self-esteem because, like, what's not enough about me? Why would you need to do that? Right. But in the end, it really isn't about you. It wasn't about me at all. So I left, I finally left that three years after finding out about the affair.

We struggled with that. I stayed in for another three years. I stayed in just to try to, I mean, there were promises of quitting and promises of giving up this person. You guys had two kids. And we had two kids. And honestly, and we loved each other. There's a lot of pressure that comes with that too. I don't.

I want to feel like if this ends, I've done everything that I could do. Yes. Exactly. People didn't understand why I stayed. But you get it. Like if you have kids and this is your forever person. you're going to do whatever it takes. So I did whatever I thought it took and it still wasn't enough.

And in the end, I just had to let go. And it literally was like cutting off one of my limbs. It was, we loved each other, like so desperately. And he loved me too. Like, it was neither one of us wanted this to happen. So that was really, really hard. And I left with really low self-esteem and dated a thousand people. Like, I was just like, well, I didn't get.

It was hitting the runway, let's go. Yeah, I was like, I'm going to get it on. I'm going to get. I watched crazy stupid love with Emma Stone and yeah. And you were like, this is it. I wanted to be the Ryan Gosling. Yes, I found my inner Ryan Gosling in that movie. And I wanted to be that badass.

And dirty dancing lifts and all of it. Yes, exactly. Lift me up, baby. Here I come. And I literally probably dated a thousand men in two years. I wrote a book. about it. I created a spreadsheet. Yeah. That's really cool.

I mean, I still didn't, not, this might be TMI, but I was very precious about my body. It's not like I slept around. I said a low, low body count, but I kissed a thousand frogs. Let's just put it that way. A low body count. As much as I get accused of

high body count hair, that's a thing on my show. Is it? Yes. My body count is extremely low, but that's okay. No judgment in a high body count, But it just wasn't for me. But I was precious about that. But I dated 8,000 people basically out of self, just low self-esteem.

I really just had to get that. I had to get that out. Had to be Ryan Gosling for a season. Were there enough guys that you could date that would make you feel like your self-esteem was good and you felt good about yourself? Because that's an interesting thing. Like you're trying to fill a hole. Right. That doesn't fill.

I was literally actually, yes, it was a self-esteem boost to know that I'm wanted because I felt so unwanted, obviously being cheated on. But more than that, I wanted to fill this role of husband, like dutiful husband, loyal husband that could be also like I wanted to have the perfect family for my kids. I wanted to have the father for my children that we could be a family together and never break up. I just wanted that eternal family, as they say, in my faith. Yeah. And so I was looking to fill that role. And so I had to just like go through men like it was a Rolodex spinning to find that. Looking for that next person to fill that space.

Exactly. To fill that role. And then you meet someone and you're like, this is the guy. Yes. Get married again. Yeah. We dated for a year, got married again. And I thought it was the perfect setup again.

I found him. I found him. Yeah. Thank heavens. The heavens are opening. Birds are singing. Trumpets are blaring. You know what I mean?

Like, it was a godsend. And our kids blended perfectly. And we were just the immediate, perfect family. And then that all went sideways. And that's what... Why? How much of a part... That's what I can't talk about.

How much of a part in it do you think you played? Because I strongly believe that it takes... It takes two people. You can point at one and go, ooh, this, what you did here was really bad. But then how you responded, who you were also can play a big part. Absolutely. I think I had blinders on.

When people say, you know, the criticism from earlier that I'm man obsessed, I'm obsessed with men. You're obsessed with love? I was, yes, I'm obsessed with love. And I'm obsessed with this version of a perfect, marriage, a perfect love, a perfect family that I had, that I grew up with. Because my parents, I mean, they were married for 53 years before my mom passed away. We had the perfect family where everyone was tight. All the siblings loved each other. We still are so tight. My parents

desperately loved, you know, I just wanted, I wanted that, wanted that ideal marriage, that ideal family. And so I thought I had that. So I think I had blinders on. That was my, that was my fault. Is that I was blind. I turned a blind eye to things that I shouldn't have. It's tough. We have these expectations of because my parents had this amazing relationship, I want the same thing. And it's like, no, your path in life is different.

You're a different human being. So you are going to contribute to the world in a completely different way. Yes. I love that. But that's okay. Yeah. Like it's hard sometimes. And you can wish.

Oh my God, I wish I had the healthy relationship. But you are given a different path and you're on a different one because you are capable of handling different. Yeah, I love that. The butterfly effect. Every little decision we make affects the rest of our lives. It's a ripple effect. Whenever people ask me, like, if you could go back in time and change anything, what would you change? Nothing.

Absolutely nothing. Did you see that movie about time with Rachel McAdams? That's exactly the question. question that is asked. Is it? If you could go back and change just one thing. I wouldn't be me right now. Yeah.

I wouldn't be the same person. Like I is. And you love who you are. I understand. But really? Like if you could go back. I mean, I say this as a pat answer all the time. And I don't think I'm being completely honest, to be honest.

In fact, I just said it a few minutes ago. I wouldn't change a thing. Bullshit. I call bullshit on that. What would you change? I would go back and I would choose several things different. But I don't want to say because I don't want to cause any disrespect. No, it's not disrespect, though.

It's not, this is a very genuine, honest conversation. I know, I know. So it's not you mean, no disrespect in any of the things that you're talking about. I think you're talking. Well, I don't want to disrespect who I would say this about. Okay. You know what I mean? So then just say it about yourself.

But really? What would you change about because? I would make different decisions in my 20s. But so if we, I'm a really, I'm a firm. believer in the only control that I have in life is who I choose to be. Yeah, of course. I have no control over the rest of it. Like, it could, I could choose to be the greatest person in the world step off a curb and get hit by a bus and die. Like, it doesn't, there's, I have no control over that. True. Who's the person that stepped off the curb? That's what I have control over. Right. So if you could go back in time and

change things. Yeah. Choices that you made, things you did, not necessarily what other people did or situations you were in. Right. What, you know, in looking back on it, people ask me, what would you do differently? And it's, I wouldn't, I honestly wouldn't do anything differently because as much as it hurt when I was in those moments. Yeah. I can look back on literally all of them and go, it's because of that, that, that I'm now this way. True. It's because of that. It made you who you are and you love who you are. Those are. But really, it's kind of like being on that game show where there's like choose door A or door B. And, you know, you know what A is.

And we got to A. We love ourselves at A. Yeah. But if you could go all the way back to a really pivotal decision that you made, that could save you from going through massive heartache, breaking other people's hearts, hurting your children, this and that and the other. Would you choose B? Could it, though?

Yes. Would it actually undo those things? Well, yes, it would. But how do you know? But how do you know that you wouldn't have other massive problems? I love this. I love this conversation. I did too. For sure.

You would have other massive heartaches. And what if you had cancer and died? What if you, you know what I mean? But that's the stuff we have no control over. Right. That's the hard part of life. That is religion, right? Religion is just trusting that this is going to end up in a way that I'm okay with.

That's faith. It's faith. Well, yeah. But what if you? backtracked and you had the knowledge of having gone through Dore A all the way. But how would you have the knowledge? That is a, that's a, that's a crazy concept. That's the movie.

Okay. But now, but now this is the two of us sitting on a couch. That's a script that's written. Yeah. Okay. So, this is, this is a new one being written right now. We're writing a script right now. You have the knowledge, you back up, you choose Door B.

You have a whole different life. And then all of a sudden you get to the, you get to that. same point. And you don't like yourself. You get to the same age that we are right now. We go, oh my God, this is, I should have chosen door A. You don't get to, you don't get to the same age. You die prematurely because you happen to step off a bus, step off a curve and get hit by a bus. You never know. Seriously. Which is why then you should live every moment in the now. 100%. Right. Yeah. And quantum physics. I mean, we might be able to time travel. We might. In fact, time is all relative. It's Einstein's theory or relativity.

Like, you know, how deep do we want to go into time travel? I've done shows based on string theory and time travel. So I'm down to go into it. I'm a quantum physics nerd. Are you? Yes, 100%. Einstein's theory of relativity. Time is relative.

And we're discovering more and more now with AI. Thanks to AI, which will kill us all. But that's okay. Hence the show that I did. I love that the show I did was string theory and fighting AI. No, for real. Which ended the world. Very, very relatable.

Oh, my God. It's so fun. If we're meant to be you and I on this couch right now. Yeah. Having this conversation. It's really interesting because it's conversations like this that open your mind to these different possibilities. And you leave and you go, that was a really cool conversation.

I've never thought that way necessarily. And then you continue these conversations with other people. And it just, it's a net. It just widens out. fun. You know, it's really fun how you can do that. Sometimes I would absolutely, absolutely choose door A still. I would say, and I stand by, I really love, I mean, everything in my life, knock on wood, is going well right now. Every single thing. A manifestation, everything I'm manifesting ends up coming to be. I really believe in quantum physics and it really works in my favor. My daughters and I

talk every day. I mean, I live in a beautiful home. I have a great career. Everything's going great, right? But and so I would absolutely choose A, but sometimes sometimes in my weak moments I would go back and choose P. What could have been? Yeah. Right. Especially if you have the knowledge. There's curiosity

for sure. Yeah. There's no shortcut for saving time, but saving money is simple. Just combine your car and home insurance with Belair Direct and save. Get a quote at bellairdirect.com. Hi, this is Kylie Breakman. Angel Geratana. Jeremy Colhane, Patrick McDonald.

And we're the hosts of the Artists on Artists on Artists on Artists Podcast. The Improvised Character Comedy Podcast where each week a new panel of artists discuss their craft. Join us for a panel of wellness influencers. What I try to do is faux journal. I don't know. Have you guys heard of faux journaling? Yeah, it's reading. It's called reading. So we don't like to use that word anymore.

A panel of New Yorker cartoonists. Have you guys done Terry Gross's Peloton classes? No! I've been dying too. I'm so sorry. I'm seeing a reading of Sadako and the Thousand Paper Cranes by Audra McDonald's at the Wonderland Bookstore on 14. That's crazy. I went to the Wonderland Bookstore yesterday and I heard Nora Jones do a reading of Zero Dark 30. No way. You have to come to the last bookstore though. Kim Cottrell is reading the guitar tabs of yesterday.

A panel of Eurovision participants. And we do a little Halloween sometimes. Does the Pope dress up? He winks on Halloween. It's right up next to the microphone. I hear you can almost hear the eyelashes hit each other. You never seen Italy so quiet as when the Pope gets up to wink on Halloween. Listen to artists on artists on artists on artists on the IHeard radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. By age 11 or so, at least 70% have a phone.

Middle school is a different world than the one we grew up in. I'm Dr. Joy and this is therapy for black girls. We spend real time on it in our surviving middle school. will run, bringing in a child psychologist and a psychiatrist who's raising two black girls of his own to talk about what's really going on with our kids right now. So it's literally physiological and neurological and psychological and psychological chaos happening all the same time. We got into group chats and gaming, friendships and bullying, and how to tell the difference between healthy monitoring and the kind of surveillance that erodes trust. There's belonging. You could think of

belonging as I can be myself and I can still be accepted. And then there's fitting in. Spitting in says I have to change who I am in order to avoid rejection. Then we turn the conversation toward the fathers, sitting down with therapist Keer Gaines on Black fatherhood and what it means to raise a daughter through this stage. You don't have more shorts so you can't do flips. You have on the dress. You have to cross your legs.

That's the range of this run, from screen time to identity to the fathers doing the work at home. You have to get off her device. But the reality is there's a lot. lot of lives out there that we don't want you as your adults in their lives to miss out on. This has been our surviving middle school run. Brought to you by the people who spend their careers thinking about exactly this. I'm Dr. Joy. Listen to Therapy for Black Girls on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

You're not incurable. You're not broken. You're having a normal human experience, and we have a solution for that. And that solution is our show Free Therapy. I'm Ben. and I'm Kevin. And we think everyone could use a little bit of therapy, including us. Absolutely.

That's why each week we sit down with a different therapist to talk about the things we're all dealing with. If you're trying to get rid of anxiety, you're actually fueling more anxiety. We talk to some of the leading therapists in the country about all of life's headaches, work, family dynamics, and of course, dating and relationships. Everyone chooses a different set of, problems, challenges flaws. You have to figure out which set of problems you're willing to work with. So listen to free therapy with Ben and Kevin on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Because therapy is expensive, but our podcast is free. So for me, you wouldn't go back

to high school, say, make different choices. No, it's too big of a risk to me of not turning out being who I am right now because I genuinely feel like this is. is I have found my true calling. I have found who I'm comfortable being. I've found who the universe has always intended me to be. And I'm on this path of discovering that. And I worry that anything that changed would take me off of this path that I'm on now. Right.

It would or it would not. Like, that's what you might end up in the exact same place. The exact same place, sure. Yeah. Well, are you in a relationship right now? I am. I'm engaged. Oh my gosh, congratulations.

My fiancee Sharna is a professional dancer. She is back on this season of dancing with the stars, which starts on Tuesday. Oh, my gosh. Congrats. That's incredible. She's a phenomenal dancer. We have a four-year-old. Oh, my gosh.

I have five kids. Oh, my gosh. That's exciting. I've done my thing. Yeah. You've, you. I figured out quickly like, yeah, I'm not very good at this like, you know, avoiding pregnancy thing. Like my form of birth control sucks.

So I'm just going to. No, those sperm are just determined. Just going to fucking change that up a little bit. Oh my God. A tenacious little sperm. So tenacious. But hey, that's great. You're great at spreading your seed.

That doesn't sell like that like that's not a compliment, right? That's a weird. That is not. It's not. That is absolutely. You're great at spreading your seed. Evolutionarily, evolutionarily, it's a compliment. Biologically, it's a huge compliment.

Are you kidding me? Emotionally, not the best. You're coming up a little short. Oh, dang it. I meant it as a compliment. I love parenting, though. I love parenting. I always say, like, to me, there are two very specific different career.

There's a mother and a father, which people can easily be. Right. But to be a parent, that's the work. Yeah. Getting up in the morning. I agree. Lunches, being a part of like after school activities and school itself. And like that is, that's the work.

That's so true. Some people are really good at that. Yeah. They're amazing parents. And then some people, that's just not. That's not their thing. It's not their thing. But it's your thing.

I love it. I'm so glad. I love it. Because that's the reward. Oh, yeah. That's the rewarding part. It is. So you have a four-year-old, a boy or girl?

I have a four-year-old boy. I'm going to get a prison tattoo of a clock with no hands because it's a life sentence for me. Like my manager is going through empty nest now. I'll be in my 70. That's amazing. I love that. You know what, though? We're going to be a young 70.

I mean, the world is changing. They just started reversing age like last month. Except who's that one guy that was doing all of the like 17 year old things to try and age in reverse. And then he ended up he has, who is it? Brian Johnson. He ended up with some sort. It like backfired on him. He has an autoimmune issue now.

Oh no. Crap. Oh, yeah. It all went south. Oh, no. I don't know this. Because you are. He was doing it on himself.

No, he had done. He was spending like a million dollars. a year to like it was a like he's done really well in business and so he was like I want to age and reverse like that's my goal yeah and so he was doing all the supplements he was doing all the workout plans he was doing all the meal plans like he was very on it and biohacking very biohacking to the point where he's trying to reverse engineer everything and his body was like nope and shut it down And now he has all of these autoimmune issues that it's become a very big thing. Oh, wow.

I did not hear that. Oh, you're breaking my heart here. I'm sorry. You're ruining my plan. It's I, you know, I make people feel great and then I break their heart at the same time. That's how this works. I love it. It's working.

No, I'm so sad. Shoot, that was my plan. But you're going to be a great 70 father. That's the point. By the time you and I have to worry about it, they'll have to. have it all dialed in. They'll have it all dialed in. Or we'll be dead by robots.

We'll have learned from this dude. Yeah. Robots look at this. Oh my God. Can you imagine? No, I, so I love, like, I love my 50s. I love him. Me too.

Me too. I genuinely feel like this is my favorite decade. And I'm jealous you have a four-year-old because that's just like, oh, that's so fun. Has he started preschool? He's in TK. Yeah, he's in pre. Do you like go and like

This is the second year Watch and do you like Do you have to pry yourself away? So every once in a while like The school send like pictures And yeah videos of what they did And it's so precious It's so cute

Because the things that they find joy in It just reminds you of like Yeah yeah yeah I need to simplify my mind I love it You know I'm so happy for you I've gone down the rabbit hole like I need all of these things.

Yeah. I just wanted to be simple again where it's like, oh, tie-dying was so much fun and it was so great all going on this nature walk and picking rocks and he'll come home from school and he'll, the whole front pocket of his backpack will be full of rocks. But they're all like crystals and jewels to him that he found. Right. It's like, yeah, that's okay. But they're not, but you know, cool.

Oh, that's precious. And then I have to go through and like, while he's not looking, remove them all and put them all back in the yard. Right, right. And hope that he just forgets. He doesn't go through and go, where are my jewels? Yeah, right.

Oh my God, where are your jewels? Where are they? They made it their way outside. And then I have to create some lie of like, you know, oh, the jewel fairy came and, you know, put them back outside because that's how the world works. Right. Oh, gosh.

So, okay. So you went into, married the second time. Yeah. Goal of this is it. This is the one, which to me, Every marriage is that. Right. You do it one time.

Right. You don't get married to like a divorce. No. That's never the end goal. It's like, let's see how long this one lasts. It's like this should be the one where you go, okay, this is, I'm good now. I don't ever have to worry about this part of my life again. This is my person forever and ever until death do we part.

Right. I have my person. That's a funny statement though till death do us part. Yeah. I had this conversation with someone not too long ago. And it was, oh, we were doing an episode of I Do Part 2, and it was all the guys, and we were sort of talking about that. And we were answering questions that would come in as voicemails or emails. And I was thinking about it, and I was like, you know what, till death do us part is, it's interesting.

Like, what is, I wonder what the true meaning of that is. So you are into quantum physics and all that. and the death of this relationship, or is it the physical death of our lives? If it's the death of this relationship, then are you then not proud of it lasted for five years? But oh my God, we saw the entire five years through and we got to the death of the relationship.

I think that's a great way to look at it. That's the broad pit way. Didn't he say something about that when he and Angelina split? He did. He said something like, I love him if he did. Or was Jennifer Anderson, Aniston, he said something like, well, let's just be proud that it lasted this long. Let's not look at like it should have lasted long.

Yeah. Not look at it as a failure. I love that idea. It's a success. We lived the entire life of what this relationship was supposed to be. And you get amazing things out of a relationship and then you move on from it. You go, okay, next step in life. Exactly.

I think people sometimes put pressure. on marriage thinking that it's supposed to last my entire physical life. Well, that's what it means. That's what it literally means till death do us part. I mean, that's what the intent. Those who wrote the script intended it to mean. Those who wrote the vows. Right.

It wrote the vows. Because those were written by sense. Yes, they were till dead to us part. They intended physical, physical death. But. Are you sure? I'm pretty sure. Pretty sure they weren't into like the whole.

quantum physics back then. But it's, but who knows? I, who wrote the vows? I mean, I don't know. Do you know? I don't. I don't. Well, I don't.

No, that's a really good question. What was the intention when the vows were written? I don't know. And who wrote them and what, like, were they? Don't you think they were pretty much? I mean, they were meant to be physical, but you and I can interpret them to be anything. Well, but I mean, I can, we can have the same conversation with religion and all of the different books.

Like, you know, I, do I take them literally? do I take them as like, do I interpret them in a different way? And they're all sort of open that way. So it really becomes the fun thing for thinkers. Right. For free thinkers. To go in and go. Because we free think.

Yeah. Like I wonder, I want to find the version of it because this rings true to me to read it. But it rings true to me being interpreted a different way. Well, you and I have the liberty. and the, yeah, we can interpret things differently than the way they were intended. But I don't, I think that the longer, the more time goes on, the more people can free think or just naturally. And we're going to start interp- Some of us, not all of us, human beings, but a lot of us just start thinking it as a parable or a metaphor. whereas like people literally believe the Bible word for word like like in a literal sense.

Absolutely. And I think that the more educated. And those are people I have that I want to have conversations with. Yeah. Well, and so we're talking about the same thing with the vows. You know, the vows were written a long time ago. And it was probably most likely written literally. And but now you and I are kind of.

It's been interpreted a million times. And I've got, you know, like it's, I can go to a, take a class and within two hours be ordained and all of a sudden I can say the vet. Right, right. They're all interpretations and they're all from the, it depends on the school you go to. It depends on your own feelings. And so you see these ceremonies and they can be very different because people interpret them. So what is your wedding going to be like?

Have you guys decided when, where, how? We haven't decided when or where because we're both extremely busy in life. We completely live our lives together. We own a home together. I love that. We're in this. So to me, the wedding, weddings are much more for everyone else to see. It's like you are showing everybody else like, this is how much we love each other. It's not for us.

We're already married. Like we already are together and we share everything and we love each other. share life. You know, and she is my person and I want to be hers. And I'm constantly trying to see what it is I'm lacking, what I can do better, what would make her feel better in these moments. And that's what's going to make it successful. Constantly being aware.

And it's going to be successful for how long it's going to be successful. That's such a good point. Yes. I don't. But the more you can make space for each other is what I've noticed and really be sensitive to how the other person is feeling in the relationship and what can I change to make you feel better? How can I help you is what makes a relationship last? There's no better way to stay on the same path than to go, hey, what path are you on?

How can I help you stay on that path? And then I go, ooh, I like the way that that worked with you. And so then I adopt it to my path. Right, right. Of course we stay on the same path. Yes. It's as soon as you stop communicating about everything. Yeah.

And stop actually caring and you become selfish. Stop caring. Yep. That paths and... Yep. Diverts. Going different ones. Yes.

Beautifully said. Yeah. You guys are going to be great. I'm excited for you. Well, I hope so. Now, there are two other women on the show with you who are... They're going through it. I know.

I know. And how long have they been married? Angie's been married. I mean, decades. Decades. Decades. Kids. Yeah. Kid. Kid.

Teenage girl, yep. Whitney. Like, I mean, over 10 years. Kids. I would say 15, 16 years they've been married at least. Yeah, they're in it. And are they devastated or are they in a point where they're kind of excited about the possibility of what life is next for them? I would say it's safe to say devastated.

I can't speak for them obviously. Right, of course. But they, I just putting myself in their shoes, I would be devastated. And I think it's clear from what they've said in the media that they're devastated. It's devastating. Yeah. You know, you have kids with somebody. It's your husband for heaven's sakes.

And it's devastating. There's no shortcut for saving time. But saving money is simple. Just combine your car and home insurance with Bel Air Direct and save. Get a quote at Facebook. SellerDirect.com. Hi, this is Kylie Brakeman. Angel Geratana.

Jeremy Colhain. Patrick McDonald. And we're the hosts of the Artists on Artists on Artists on Artists Podcast. The Improvised Character Comedy Podcast where each week a new panel of artists discuss their craft. Join us for a panel of wellness influencers. What I try to do is faux journal. I don't know. Have you guys heard of faux journaling?

Yeah, it's reading. It's called reading. So we don't like to use that word anymore. Okay. A panel of New Yorker cartoonists. Have you guys done Terry Gross's Peloton class? No! I've been dying too.

I'm so sorry. I'm seeing a reading of Sadako and the Thousand Paper Cranes by Audra McDonald's at the Wonderland Bookstore on 14th. That's crazy. I went to the Wonderland Bookstore yesterday and I heard Nora Jones do a reading of Zero Dark 30. No way. You have to come to the last bookstore, though. Kim Cottrell is reading the guitar tabs of yesterday. A panel of Eurovision participants.

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Middle school is a different world than the one we grew up in. I'm Dr. Joy, and this is therapy. for black girls. We spent real time on it in our surviving middle school run, bringing in a child psychologist and a psychiatrist who's raising two black girls of his own to talk about what's really going on with our kids right now. So it's literally physiological and neurological and psychological and psychological chaos happening all this end up. We got into group chats and gaming, friendships and bullying, and how to tell the difference between healthy monitoring and the kind of surveillance that erodes trust. There's belonging. You could think of belonging as

I can be myself and I can still be accepted. And then there's fitting in. Spitting in says I have to change who I am in order to avoid rejection. Then we turn the conversation toward the fathers, sitting down with therapist Keir Gaines on Black fatherhood and what it means to raise a daughter through this stage. You don't have on shorts, so you can't do flips. You have on the dressy up across your legs.

That's the range of this run, from screen time to identity to the father's doing the work at home. You have to get off her device. But the reality is there's a lot of life out there. that we don't want you as your adults in their lives to miss out on. This has been our surviving middle school run. Brought to you by the people who spend their careers thinking about exactly this. I'm Dr. Joy.

Listen to Therapy for Black Girls on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. You're not incurable. You're not broken. You're having a normal human experience, and we have a solution for that. And that solution is our show Free Therapy. I'm Ben. And I'm Kevin. And we think everyone could use a little bit of therapy, including us.

Absolutely. That's why each week we sit down with a different therapist to talk about the things we're all dealing with. If you're trying to get rid of anxiety, you're actually fueling more anxiety. We talk to some of the leading therapists in the country about all of life's headaches, work, family dynamics, and of course, dating and, of course, dating and relationships. Everyone chooses a different set of problems, challenge. challenges flaws. You have to figure out which set of problems you're willing to work with. So listen to free therapy with Ben and Kevin on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Because therapy is expensive, but our podcast is free.

You set these expectations and you sort of have this dream in your head. Like you've envisioned it all, how you're going to retire, the home you're going to have, the things you're going to do. And then all of a sudden, when that all comes to an abrupt, end and you realize like oh I saw all these things but I'm not we're not going to see them through right that sucks it's that that's a hard thing to to wrap your head around and then sort of get through right but you will get through the more I always say the more you talk the more you really sit and analyze it and figure it out and figure out what part you played in it not it's easy to point a finger and go, oh, they did this.

They did that. Right. It's not going to help you. Right. It's going to give you a reason where, like, therapy is really fun for the first couple times because you're in hitting pillows and you're yelling about all the people that have done me wrong and all the stuff. Yeah, yeah. And then all of a sudden it's like, okay, cool.

Like I've done it all. Yeah. Now what am I going to do in here? Yeah. And then you have to turn it around and go, okay, what do I do that I no longer want to do? that I no longer want to subject someone else to that doesn't deserve this. Like I,

um, we collect all these red flags in life. Yeah. In relationships. And then we look for those in these new relationships. And we go, oops, there's that red flag. Okay, er, pumped a brakes on that.

I'm not going to let you, I'm not going to fall for that one again. Yeah. That person doesn't own those red flags. That person is not the reason that that red flag was in your life. The person that put them in your life is. So it's unfair to put that burden on someone else. What? Okay, you're blowing my mind here. But think about it. Explain that again. I need to, I need to fully assimilate this. I've gone through relationship things. Yeah. I have, I have a bunch of red flags

and things that I've collected where it's kind of my safety net. It's like, okay, I don't have control, but I want to try and have as much control as I can. So I have. want to look for these things that I know could go south. Right. Then you and I start dating. We have a relationship. You are nothing like the person that I was with before. But I've got all those red flags from that person on you.

And it's unfair because you're like, I didn't cause that pain. I'm not someone that lies to you about this or has put you through this. So it's unfair for you to put that burden on me because you're not allowing me to be a thousand percent me with you. You mean like red flags meaning kind of hypersensitivity to certain traits. Sure. Is that what you're saying? Yeah.

And it's not fair. Red flags are things that you, that you have to protect yourself. There are these like little sort of crutches and these things, these walls that you put up. And as soon as you see something that is similar, ooh, my ex-husband said something similar to that. Oh, I know where this is going to go. It's like, no, you don't. This person isn't your ex-husband.

they may have said it in a completely, with a completely different meaning. The context is completely different. But you are not allowing that person to have their own context on it because immediately you put your ex-husband. Oh my gosh, my mind is blown. That is such a good point. I'm going to take.

But we make it so hard on ourselves. That is my biggest takeaway from today. We make it so hard on ourselves. Yeah. And we make it then so hard on our partner because our partner has to, to live with the baggage that somebody else created. That's so true. And it's not fair.

It's not fair. Like I, when I look back on the, probably the greatest relationship until the one I'm in now that I had was my first. Because I had no red flags. I loved a thousand percent. I was like, here's all of me. This feels amazing. And then all of a sudden you get hurt and you go,

oh my God, how can I avoid being hurt like that again? Because that was terrible. So then you start finding all the little things. Okay, well, just don't invest the same way. Look out for little things because this went wrong before. So I'm going to make sure that doesn't go wrong again. I'm going to kind of shield myself from these things. But then you don't fully love again.

Right, right. Until you go, okay, I'm going to throw all those out and it's fucking hard. Yeah. It's painful and it's scary. Yeah. Because it could hurt just like it. it did that first time, or it could not. And what happened?

I'm like on the edge of my seat here. Or you end up with an amazing relationship. I'm in an amazing relationship now. So that's what you did. You're saying. But she reminds me of it all the time. Like I'll react to her in a certain way where she knows I'm not reacting to her. I'm reacting to the life I've lived and the things that I went through before.

And she'll remind me, she'll say to me, I'm not that. I would never do that. you're safe from that so then I can sit back and I can you can relax oh I'm so happy for you that you have that those are the conversations those are the conversations you should be having with the person but you're with someone that holds space for you and that gently reminds you look you can let your walls down you can let your guard down I'm you're safe with me that's that's a two-way street though I know I but Brian I'm so happy for you that's it thank you that's a relationship that you It is a two-way straight. Both people have to do it. One person can't do it and the other person not do it.

Yeah. If I am completely guarded and I don't share anything with her, then she doesn't feel safe sharing with me. And then all of a sudden, we are walking on eggshells around each other because of all these unsaid things. It takes two. Just say them. I agree. I agree. Talk about- But you got to find someone that is... Everything. But you got to find someone like you have that is willing to care about how you feel about things, you know? I started that way.

Yeah, yeah. It's, I was really lucky in the relationship because we started that way. I love that. We started with a true, let's just talk. Yeah. Let's just be friends. Let's talk about the things we're good at. The things we're not good at.

Like, our insecurities, our stuff, we didn't put the mask on of like, this is what someone's going to like best about me. Right. Because then that is, to me, that is. It's just ingenuous. And it's just like that is the, what do you call it? You can only last for like six months or so. Oh, yeah.

As an expiration date. Has an expiration date. Before all of a sudden you're traveling and you're stressed. You're going through life and you're going through things. Right. And you're like, man, I can no longer sustain this facade that I put on. Yeah. Yeah.

So you got to start it in the right place. Well, I hope to have your. luck. I'm not looking right now. I'm not even really interested in dating. I'm just sort of like burned out. But I really hope that the next time you meet someone, you start it from that place of like, you're just being you. The guards are down. You're talking about your life. You're talking about where you are now. I love your analogies. Yeah. And then they go, you know what? I, it's really similar for me. Yeah. Really, this is amazing.

And then you start getting into these conversations. And you go, that was an unbelievable conversation. Can we do this again? And you hold space for each other in the same ways that are compatible. And you may, and then you make a choice of we're going to do this always. Love that. Hmm. It'll happen for me someday.

It absolutely will. I'm in love with love. You just have to be in the right space. Yes. You know, you have to make sure that you're in the right space where you don't have expectations above finding a partner, being a friend, finding a person.

Right. Yeah. You're totally going to do this. Love. Because you're so great at sitting and talking and doing it. You just need to find somebody else to sit opposite you and go, yeah, let's do this together. Yeah, I agree.

You'll absolutely do it. Yeah. I think so too. Oh, I'm so glad we had this talk. It was so nice. This was so nice. It was amazing. You know, this show is I do.

part too. Like this is, I always genuinely hope that people listen to this and it helps them step into the world with a little more clarity and a little more understanding of how simple it can be if they go in with the right intentions. You can either make it really hard for yourself by not communicating and not doing the things and then being unsure and putting up the guards in the walls and trying to shield yourself from life. Trying to manipulate it, work it. Yeah. It's never going to happen. You're right. You're right.

Yeah. So, you know, jump in and do it. Okay, so first of all, yeah, you can catch Brittany and the rest of the crew on the new season of Real Housewives of Salt Lake City. That's Wednesdays on Bravo and it's streaming on Peacock the very next day. So it's on Bravo the first night. And it's like, hey, if you missed it. It's live on Bravo. Yep.

Got it. Okay. If you're going through a divorce, you're trying to find your way again. We're here to help. So send us an email, leave us a voicemail. All the info is in the show notes. You can follow us on socials. I do part two.

It's an IHeart radio podcast where falling in love is the main objective. And it really is. See you next time. Hi, this is Kylie Breakman. Angel Geratana. Jeremy Colhain. Patrick McDonald. And we're the hosts of the Artists on Artists on Artists on Artists Podcast.

The Improvised Character Comedy Podcast where each week a new panel of artists discuss their craft. Join us for a panel of Eurovision participants. And we do a little Halloween sometimes. Does the Pope dress up? He winks on Halloween. He gets right up next to the microphone. I hear you can almost hear the eyelashes hit each other. You never seen Italy so quiet as when the Pope gets up to wink on Halloween.

Listen to Artists on Artists on Artists every Thursday on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. In February of 2024, celebrated illustrative. and children's book author, Patra Mathers and her husband Michael, mailed letters to dozens of friends and family members to let them know they had died by suicide. Dear honies, this is goodbye. By the time you get this letter, both Petra and I will be dead. Next stop, Wonderland.

Why did they do it? And what did it do to the people they left behind? Listen to Death of an Artist on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, it's Alec Baldwin. This season on my podcast, Here's the Thing, I talk to actor Stephen Root. I'm a people watcher. You see that guy going down the dream, though.

Yeah, I can use that. And Open Igloo co-founder, Alia Mohamed. I love staying on top of what is going on in our city, what is on renter's minds, and taking all of that knowledge to build a platform that hopefully is going to make New York City better in the long run. Listen to Here's the Thing on the IHeart Radio app Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. What up? This Jay Valentine, co-host of the R&B Money podcast alongside my brother, R&B legend, Tank. Together, we've built a space for artists, executives, and fans of R&B music to reminisce and tell the real stories behind the music. I have no money. I was hood famous.

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